Synergy Reborn: Revisit Evolith System?

[Nala]

The recent dev post on relic +2 prompted me to post this, its obvious they are trying to make the synergy system relevant so why not instead expand on and improve the evolith system?

here are my suggestions:

Increase slot types/revamp how type's work: divide up the slots based on what type of augment they offer, like straight base stats (+5 str, +10 attack, ect.), job abilities (augment's berserk/lowers Bloodpact: rage recast, ect), job trait slots (+2 Store TP, +1 autorefresh, ninja tool expertise, ect.)

Unlimit slotable gear: allow all gear to be slotable, balance could be control by limiting already strong peices of gear's max total slots, actual slot category selection, max slot size or a combination of the three.

Craftable evoliths:crafted evoliths would have size (aka. potency, larger evloiths obtained via higher hq tiers), diffrent crafts could perhaps cover varing stats and abilities so that crafted evoliths wouldn't favor a particular craft, like base stats via alcmey, magely trait an job abilities via cloth crafting, tool expertise and recycle via wood working, pysical damage reduction via smithing, ect. anyways open to suggestions in reguards to that i realize these suggestions aren't very balanced as is just trying to throw out some examples.

Specialized Evoliths: add preset evoliths, rare and rare/ex with predetermined sizes and stats drop directly off NM's, could range from having unique buffs like x% quick magic to more potent than crafted evoliths.

When they first announced the evolith system it had me excited, a method to choose your own augments, what could be bad about that? but unfortunatly the amount of evoliths that were worthwhile were not only hard to obtain (over elaborate NM camping system with random results) but were limited in what gear they can be applied to making the system marginally useful therefore the player base ignored it as did the dev team.

That said i'm not saying the should do this persay but if they really want to make synergy relivant instead of adding hundereds of new half baked random systems why not revamp an abandoned half baked idea that has merit still.

Anyways i'd love to hear other's thoughts and suggestions on synergy, evoliths and my own suggestion.

in the mean time i should probably list the downsides to the evolith system especially given the current direction of updates:

Having to de-augment gear to upgrade, with all the magian gear out there its fairly certain (at least with the weapons) that as the level cap increases new trials will come out, in order to continue the path you will have to remove your slots and then upon completion re-etch new slots and re-obtain evoliths. on a positive side for crafters would keep demand high for abit at least.

inventory space would be come an issue again unless sloted gear could become mail able, but that would find us back in the mule candelabrum, though it might encourage people to focus more on one job.

[detlef]

I can't think of anything less worthwhile than the evolith system.

[Nala]

as it is now yes, or are you absolutely convinced that the current dev team can't make it worthwhile?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

as it is now yes, or are you absolutely convinced that the current dev team can't make it worthwhile?Yes, I absolutely, whole-heartedly believe that the current DEV team cannot do anything possible to make evoliths worth while.

[Leonlionheart]

Yes, I absolutely, whole-heartedly believe that the current DEV team cannot do anything possible to make evoliths worth while.

Let me give them a head start: Make the evoliths static, craftable, and need no synergy skill to put into your weapon/gear. Take out the numbers in the slot requirements, or whatever they are, or make them simple like Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 for the potency of the evolith you are trying to put in your gear. Make the slots simple and correspondent to offensive/defensive/magic

Example:
Red Evolith/+1: STR+2(HQ+3) (Triangle slot Tier 1)
Synergy 50 (Alchemy60, Goldsmithing 60): 1 Ruby, 1 Evolith Material Type Triangle, 1 Evolith Material Type 1.

Yellow Evolith/+1: VIT+2(HQ+3) (Square slot Tier 1)
Synergy 50 (Alchemy60, Goldsmithing 60): 1 Earth-related-gem, 1 Evolith Material Type Triangle, 1 Evolith Material Type 1.

Blue Evolith/+1: MND+2(HQ+3) (Round slot Tier 1)
Synergy 50 (Alchemy60, Goldsmithing 60): 1 Sapphire, 1 Evolith Matieral Type Circle, 1 Evolith Material Type 1.

Rage Evolith/+1: STR+6(HQ+7) (Triangle slot Tier 2)
Synergy 80 (Alchemy85, Goldsmithing 85): 1 Fire Ore, 1 Anger Ruby(New mining material), 1 Evolith Material Type Triangle, 1 Evolith Material Type 2.

Assault Evolith: Critical Rate +3%, Sphere(inc. user): Critical Damage +2% (Triangle slot Tier 3)
Synergy 100 (Alchemy 100+10, Goldsmithing 100+10): 1 Drop-from-hard-NM material, 1 10%-Droprate-from-new-HighKindredCrest-BCNM, 1 Evolith Material Type Triangle, 1 Evolith Material Type 3.

Bushido Evolith: Store TP+7, Sphere(inc. user): DA+3 (Triangle slot Tier 3)
Synergy 100 (Alchemy 100+10, Leathercraft 100+10): 1 Drop-from-hard-NM material, 1 10%-Droprate-from-new-HighKindredCrest-BCNM, 1 Evolith Material Type Triangle, 1 Evolith Material Type 3.

Equipment:
War Evolith Breastplate:
DEF: 65 STR+3, DEX+3, VIT+3, AGI-6
Attack+6, Accuracy+6, Evasion-12
"Store TP" +4
(Slot: Triangle T1)
(Slot: Triangle T2)
Lv.92 WAR/PLD/DRK/BST/DRG/SAM/NIN
Synergy 80(Blacksmithing 60, Goldsmithing 60): 1 Drop-from-NM-that-leads-to-Hard-NM, 3 Blacksmithing Materials, 3 Goldsmithing Materials, x Misc.

Mars' Evolith Haubergeon:
[Body] All Races
DEF: 60 STR+6 DEX+6 VIT-6 AGI-6
Attack+12 Accuracy+12 Evasion-30
(Slot: Square T1)
(Slot: Triangle T1)
(Slot: Triangle T3)
Lv.95 WAR/PLD/DRK/BST
Synergy 100(Blacksmithing 100, Goldsmithing 100): 1 Drop-from-hard NM material 2, 1 20%-Droprate-material-from-HKCBCNM, 3 High level Blacksmithing materials, 3 High level Goldsmithing Materials, x Miscellaneous materials

Obviously values depend on balance but you get the idea.

There! I fixed synergy, evolith, and the economy.

[Nala]

hmmm, i was thinking more like base stats would all be one slot type/shape vice separate slot types for each stat and also divergant from the original system that added evolith specific gear.

[Leonlionheart]

hmmm, i was thinking more like base stats would all be one slot type/shape vice separate slot types for each stat and also divergant from the original system that added evolith specific gear.

How about both? Existing gear that can have evolith slots, and craftable gear that is designed for evolith? The craftable gear can have things like: "Red Evolith Set: Attack Bonus" So if you use "red" or "fire" evolith in each slot 2x = Attack+5, 3x= Attack+10, and the existing gear just gets an extra bonus. I myself like the idea of personalized gear, like the value of having STP+5 in one slot, or Haste+1% in that slot if it allows me to open up the ring slot.

Also, I was just using one idea as a base for evolith slots. I think that HP/MP could have one slot, STR/AGI/Etc could have another type of slot, Job Specific effects could have another type of slot. However I think that the number should be relevant to the potency of the enhancement.

[Nala]

oh well, this has been my thoughts on how the evolith system should have been since its induction but there is a general lack of interest in this thread, as such im giving this up for lost thanks for your time.

[Leonlionheart]

I might send it over to the big book of adjustments thread.

[Alhanelem]

Either introduce the remaining 4 evolith types and make them good, or just forget the whole system and let it die a fast death.

Even the best bonuses are too small and not worth hunting for.

[Nala]

the evolith system is already dead, hence the suggestion to have a rebirth, its an abandoned system with as previously state less then marginal buffs that have a limited range to what they can be applied to.

i wanted to try and inspire a conversation on making well generally synergy more relevant, considering they keep wanting to add useless random augment systems.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12420-Artifact-Armor-4-idea?p=168162#post168162

The players have spoke and they want a static system, the evolith system was just that, but the dev team was too affraid of making items overpowered, i think thats not as much an issiue now looking at af3+2 and various other new peices they've added.

so why not instead revamp and improve on an idea that was abandoned but still has potential, the back bone of the system is there and if they arent going to do more with it then take it out completely.

that said anyone have any ideas how to further improve synergy, take it in a sensible direction or actually see anything in revamping evoliths other then me and leolionheart? if not just let this thread die.

[Alhanelem]

the evolith system is already dead, hence the suggestion to have a rebirthWhich is why I said they should leave it dead. The dev team has a mentality where anything that isn't totally random can't be as good as something that is random. Thus, any kind of pickable stat generally will be purposely made inferior just because you can pick it- unless the time investment required is very high- Hence why synergy augmenting can produce better results than evolith socketing.

[kingfury]

Good stuff Leon.

Just to support, just because a system was trash it doesn't mean that it can't be revived with some good planning. I tried to stir up the same pot of ideas with my Evolith post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5121-New-Evoliths%21-Tell-SE-what-you-want-Added%21-My-Suggestions-Yours), but got no response from the Reps yet. Some ideas for new Evoliths:

• New Evoliths (http://goo.gl/4zAJc)
The system still has great potential to be the next TotM for gear and weapons, it just needs some creative minds around it to bring it to that level.

[Nala]

wow didnt realize there was a thread on this already, like the attachment style system for evoliths, its a bit annoying how people just keep poping in here say "OMG EVOLITHSUXOR" yes... were agreeing and its obvious that SE wants to spend time and energy on improving/implementing a synergy system that the players will accept.

That said instead of them wasting energy coming up with new systems that are questionably useful why not discuss how we can make an older system worthwhile, it always had potential but as been stated in Kingfury's thread they were too afraid to make it overpowered, given af3+2 i think their fear has been somewhat abated. Personally im not talking about adding new Ebur/Ebon type gear either, im saying lets make a system that applies to all gear.


Either introduce the remaining 4 evolith types and make them good, or just forget the whole system and let it die a fast death.

Even the best bonuses are too small and not worth hunting for.

Point missed... we're talking a complete revamp of the original idea, no more hunts, exchangeable evoliths, new shapes that make sense, new evoliths, no more WS only/vs x family bs.

[Suirieko]

The Evolith system had great idea, but sure did screwed the pooch with crappy augments option, that made it even impossible to even try to justify the effort to do the Synergy. In order to even justify reviving the evolith system (and believe me, I'd love to ssee this revived, because I have one of the synergy weapon, Machismo the dagger.), they need to completely overhaul the original system, and actually add stats that would make the gears USEFUL.

The weapon augments were useful but were such a pain in the ass to get even the stats you want. Personally, I'd like them to bring back the system, but please, get rid of the crap like "X stat if fought against Y family".

[Alhanelem]

Point missed... we're talking a complete revamp of the original idea,I didn't miss the point, I don't agree with it. I don't see it to be worth a revamp. The dev team has a certain mentality about how strong bonuses can be based on whether they're pickable or not. Basically, it either has to be random or it has to take forever for it to be any good. For evoliths to work, the bonuses have to be better than they are now, and I don't see that happening without *increasing* the level of hassle.

Basically, the idea presented here is good, but it's probably too good to be considered. Yeah, negative nancy I know, but I kind of lost confidence after the staff post on relic armor +2.

[Urthdigger]

I agree that improving evolith would be very good. I know it's not quite dead, even as far as abyssea they added new evolith types (some quests give evoliths, even with abyssea-exclusive mods like martello recast time), but they really need to realize that these bonuses need to be stronger, especially since we cannot put them in our favorite gear.

Right now, empyrean +1 is what I would consider "baseline". I don't care how much of a noob you are, even if you can't get anyone to help you, it's still possible to quest your seals and grab a +1 (Well, barring a few quests. I'm looking at you Malachite in Attohwa Chasm!). For evolith to be worthwhile, it would have to either approach the power of +1 empyrean while being less difficult, be more powerful than +1, or have a situational use that's useful enough to justify macroing it in.

In my opinion, they should re-examine the drops from the old NMs, and remove all the restrictions on what it works on. From the looks of things, they balanced the stats so that it wouldn't be OP if you had the strongest evolith of the right type on, then failed to realize that if you're gonna restrict it to only working on one mob, it better be damn effective.

Though, one thing I'd like to add, is that if you look at lower level gear, it actually works. Most gear people use at low levels, it does work on, and being able to add an extra +6 attack at level 30 (say, empty bonuses for ENM30s if I get bored). I believe the idea behind the gear is that as someone levelled up they'd get new gear, hunt down NMs with hunt registries, and attach evolith to their new gear. Make level 10 gear with aquan bonuses for crabs, 20 gear with amorph bonuses for worms, 60 gear with avian bonuses for colibri. But people don't level like that anymore, they hit level 30 and keywhore to 90, or they do FoV/GoV where they're attacking many different families of mobs (not to mention going up a whole 10 levels in less than a day). For evolith to survive, it has to be viable on the high end, and the low end stuff has to be versatile enough that it's worth what little advantage it'll give.

[kingfury]

I didn't miss the point, I don't agree with it. I don't see it to be worth a revamp. The dev team has a certain mentality about how strong bonuses can be based on whether they're pickable or not. Basically, it either has to be random or it has to take forever for it to be any good. For evoliths to work, the bonuses have to be better than they are now, and I don't see that happening without *increasing* the level of hassle.

Basically, the idea presented here is good, but it's probably too good to be considered. Yeah, negative nancy I know, but I kind of lost confidence after the staff post on relic armor +2.
----------------------
Don't lose total confidence in the Devs just yet ^^ after all, even with their announcement about what they're planning with the Relic +2 stuff, they are starting to ask for our feedback more and more which is basically giving us the chance to change the game little by little. Though they still have their stubborn areas from time to time, it's a huge leap in the right direction vs what use to happen years ago:

•The Dev team releases new content, and the players rage about how much they don't like it.
If players could shake off the terrible taste that the old Evolith system left in their mouths, and just rally strategically to present valid improvements together for the Devs to digest, we might just get the system changed in the future. Though they still seem to be very careful of giving the system the ability to be really powerful (which I say is misplaced), with enough great ideas put together, it just might happen.

The Evoliths I proposed with my thread are aimed at areas(stats) that will never go under the "useless" pile in terms of stats that a player could benefit from. There are dozens more that can be proposed that fall in line with that same idea, the players just have to open their mouths and suggest them.

Something that I thought about while reading the COR manifesto posted recently, where players were irritated about the Devs lack of interest in dealing with the issues of Ammo creation, was a new type of Evolith that once combined with a newly equipped item could create ammo over a specified duration of time.

• The player would equip some sort of new ammo specific device in their Ammo gear slot. Perhaps an "Ammo Mold" type of device that specifies which type of ammo would be desired (ex: Silver bullet Ammo Mold).
• The player would need to have the new ammo oriented Evolith attached to one or more pieces of gear equipped in order to activate the ammo creation process. Perhaps the more Evoliths attached could yield ammo for a longer duration of time.
• To respect game balance, the process would NOT create stacks of ammo at once, but rather ONLY create the desired ammo at the point in which the weapon is being fired. This would mean the player could fire the weapon for a duration of time without ever checking his/her ammo reserves and yet produce ammo as needed.
• Again, to respect game balance, the "Ammo Mold" could have a limited number of active charges that once spent, would have to be discarded and replaced. The Molds themselves could be created by Synergy.
Is it drastic? Yep. Would it make folks respect Synergy & Evoliths a bit more? Most likely. I say solve valid issues with the system and the possibilities could be endless.

[Alhanelem]

Don't lose total confidence in the Devs just yet ^^Not with everything, just with their mentality on risk/reward/time consumed.

[kingfury]

I feel ya, but lets hope with the player's voice coming through loud and clear as we move forward in this game, their mentality begins to change on such topics :)

[Leonlionheart]

Kingfury's posts bring light to my day

[kingfury]

lol It's cause I'm wearing my +2 Positive Outlook Shorts that's why.

Positive Outlook Shorts +2 (Rare/Ex)
"Legs" All Races
DEF 65 STR +20 Additional effect: May brighten the day of random folks
Lv 90 All jobs

[Leonlionheart]

lol maaaan those must be like the rarest thing in the game. Everyone else seems to wear

Negative Outlook Slops:
"Legs" All Races
DEF:OverlyDefensive, INT-20, MND-20, Additional effect: Will definitely screw with your buzz
Lv.1 All jobs

[kingfury]

----------------
>< lol

[Linh]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to use Synergy.

Things wrong with Synergy:

Time limit, Randomness of being able to fix "problems" (leaks etc), Convoluted

Is there a resource in the game itself that tells you the recipe of how to craft things of a certain type?

For example: reading a book in the Cooking guild shows you a list of everything you can craft at your current skill level. Or do we have to rely on external web sites for something so basic? This applies not just to Cooking or Synergy, but all crafts.

[Vagrua]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to use Synergy.

Things wrong with Synergy:

Time limit, Randomness of being able to fix "problems" (leaks etc), Convoluted

Is there a resource in the game itself that tells you the recipe of how to craft things of a certain type?

For example: reading a book in the Cooking guild shows you a list of everything you can craft at your current skill level. Or do we have to rely on external web sites for something so basic? This applies not just to Cooking or Synergy, but all crafts.
Yeah, I can't say I would bother going through page by page trying to find one recipe over just looking it up online. It would be nice if there was a built in search for recipes similar to how you can already search in the Help Desk with Q&A, but I doubt they would ever put the effort into implementing all that.

More on topic, I think the evolith system would have to have better reward augments to make players actually want to get back into it and agree with eliminating the "X stat if fought against Y family".

[Nala]

yeah those were some of the main problems, only good stats were only vs x family or only during ws, im not technically advocating evoliths per say but Dev team seems damn intent on keeping up on synergy, so why not have spend thier energy revamping a system that had/could have promise vice continually running the hamster wheel with these inane random augment systems.

[Camate]

It’s been quite a bit of time since our last post about synthesis and synergy. With one update about to occur and future update planning taking place now, we’d like to get some good hard feedback about the synergy system. What would you like to see happen with synergy going forward? What kind of adjustments/changes/new things are you interested in? Let us know!

There are already a lot of you that have posted on this, but for good measure I have a couple requests before you submit feedback:


•If you haven’t already read the post I made previously about the future of synthesis and synergy (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4771-Craft-Skill-Limitations?p=78836&viewfull=1#post78836), please do so.
•Please give us constructive feedback.
•Please avoid any abstract expressions and post specific content.
•We’d appreciate it if you would post suggestions as a set with problems and not just the points you feel are problematic.

Also, just one more personal request…

I will be sure to read each and every one of your posts, so there is really no need to change the font size or color to make it stand out more. Just be sure to not create huge walls of text because that makes it pretty tough for me to get through it when there are a ton of posts to read. With that said, just consider little old Camate, so I can better convey your feedback to the development team.

Looking forward to all of your ideas and requests!

[Kimara]

Look what you've done! You've made Camate sad face!!!

[Wojo]

Obtaining the 'phat lewt' is what motivates us. I want to spend my Wednesday nights playing FFXI with my friends working toward obtaining items.

If you want draw people to synergy, include it in this process. If Synergy/Crafting skills were required for Magian Trail upgrades, that would be a huge boost the economy. This should be easy enough to implement.

[Mightyg]

I think synergy should become a part of the process of leveling synthesis professions. This way you have items that are easy to mass produce and good for skilling up the various professions as well as the synergy skill simultaneously.

Gear augmentation should be completely separate from this process as far as skill requirements, and past evolith gear should be converted so the new system can overwrite them.

I welcome new abjuration gear assuming the systems they're tied to are practical. And I'd like to see their stats comparable to other high level sets.

I really enjoyed the idea of being able to have different colored gear, though implementation of the evolith gear made them prettymuch useless right out of the gate. Would love to see the inclusion of color choice in gear as something the end buyer has control over, and not what the initial crafter happened to include. Color should be able to be changed at any time without losing the equipments current augments.

Assuming the new augment system is implemented, I'd like to see all new gear, crafted, looted, upgraded to be able to take advantage of the static system. This way you can obtain the gear you prefer, and still be able to customize it's stats to your own liking.

[Manque]

- Situational pieces are good, but please do not make them too specific. Ex: Accuracy vs. slimes. The chance of a player wanting to carry around such equipment is fairly minimal if they play multiple jobs and the equipment cannot be stored.

- I enjoyed the evolith system because it still included monster battles outside of town. One could not simply sit on a pile of gil crafting within town to 'build' pieces of evolith gear. They had to go out and hunt monsters or do other content. I thought this was a successful concept. In the end however, I think it failed because of how overly specific the gear was.

[Ophannus]

Maybe use Synergy to augment AF3 accessories. Or is that planned for the Green Magian Moogle?

[Helel]

I think having multiple 100 craft skills is fine. I think synergy is fine as it is. The evolith system is somewhat broken unless you allow an opportunity to upgrade the base armor to higher levels. Even then, the "vs Mob Type" evoliths are kind of pointless, mainly because we do not have the inventory space needed to carry around such armor. My BLU is always 76+/80 with a minimum amount of gear.

Would be nice if you made evoliths like automaton attachments that you can attach to a piece of gear whenever you wish. That way, you could carry them around in your satchel/sack instead.

[Kalilla]

You could have synergy provide a chance to skill-up that craft. This would have to be at the end where you finish making the item, not during the synergy process. Maybe since synergy takes longer than crafting does raise the chance of a skill-up with synergy? Not to the point where it would be better to level a craft through synergy over crafting, but as an added benefit.

The issue is if you have more than 1 person helping with it, how do you give the skill-ups out. Someone starting the synth and not doing anything (due to low synergy) shouldn't get a skill-up, I also don't think people who are helping with it that have synergy leveled but not that craft. There are also multiple crafts and that could cause an issue, although you could get a skill-up in say, goldsmithing and clothcraft, at the same time. I guess if this was considered, the person would have to help in a way during the process, that way you cant powerlevel someone's craft. Also, the player would have to have the craft close to the requirement of the recipe.

Also:

What if you did away with the chat spam during synergy? It is impossible to read everything that goes by, and the length of it is longer than the chatlog itself (at least the english version is). If you made that into an overlay like what HP and MP is during battles that auto updates the information that would be perfect, and would reduce spam, almost completely. That is a major issue with synergy atm, I think. Spam in the chat long prevents conversation with linkshell members and friends, it's a pretty antisocial craft system since it is impossible to keep up almost. Plus an overlay box for synergy would allow more information to be displayed if needed. This probably isn't possible though, just think it would fix the issue with chat spam.

[Siviard]

I agree with what Mightyg says about being able to skill up synthesis professions at the same time as synergy.

However, regarding gear augmentation, I had an idea I wanted to throw out there.

I think it would be cool for us to be able to use Soul Plates in the synergy process to be able to augment the listed Feral Skill onto our gear. You know those Soul Plates, used in the now dead Pankration (at least no one I know on Fenrir does it), also used for farming Zeni for ZNMs in Aht Urhghan areas, and the same plates used in various quests. I figure this would put a lot of those otherwise deemed "useless" Soul Plates to very good use.

Here's an example of a Soul Plate I pulled off wiki.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Attack_(Feral_Skill)

Lets say I got this Soul Plate, and I had a weapon.....lets use a Gleaming Spear for an example. It's got base DMG of 73 with 396 Delay. Of course since it doesn't have any additional stats on top of it, nearly all of the player base would deem this pretty useless. However, with synergy, I can add the Feral Skill from the Soul Plate onto the Gleaming Spear as an augment. The new Gleaming Spear would read: DMG: 73, Delay: 396, Attack +15%

This link shows a complete list of Feral Skills that can be found on Soul Plates http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Feral_Skills_Chart

The difficulty level (i.e. Skill Level) in synergizizing the Feral Skill onto a weapon or piece of armor should be based on the amount of Feral Points the Feral Skill is worth, which is listed on each soul plate.

Camate, other GMs and Devs, and everyone please feel free to leave any feedback. But not people from Asura, and Thieves. Too much Q_Q from you guys. (I kid)

[Washburn]

Make a usable synergy furnace as a mog-house furnishing. Menu lag gets ridiculous at times and what better place to invite a party of crafters to work on that all important synthesis, while taking lag out of the equation.

[Manque]

I think it would be cool for us to be able to use Soul Plates in the synergy process to be able to augment the listed Feral Skill onto our gear.

This would be okay, but I hate hate hate picture taking.

[Economizer]

there is really no need to change the font size

Is this the default font size?

[Siviard]

This would be okay, but I hate hate hate picture taking.

True, but therein lies the "Time Sink" that they LOVE to put us through!

[Kari]

I'd like to be able to level all crafts to 100. Most players don't level any at all.
It would also allow Synergy to require more high level crafts without forcing you to drag 5 people to do Synergy.

...but more than anything I just want to be able to level more than one to 100. =P

[Seriha]

At present, skilling Synergy from 70 to 80 can be difficult if your main crafts don't favor the various synths available. I imagine this will be remedied for things 81+, but for whatever the next cap is, please strive to make sure there is at least one non-guild item reliant synth for each craft to cap off with.

While meant to be group synthesis, the allure isn't really there. Please be cautious about the elemental requirements for future items as while the materials might not be hard to come by, actually having the bodies to man the furnace and handle all the little this and thats can be problematic. The alternative is better rewards for successful synergies for all participants, but I can't really think of what. Bribing others with gil doesn't always work, especially if they want more than you're willing to give for a small amount of their time. Simply adding more good items will just leave people grumbling about the system if left unchanged, too.

On the whole, Evoliths were way, way, way too specific. If you can't outright change all the "Vs. Vermin: Attack +7" stones and the like out there, at least offer some synths where they can all be combined to an eventual universal Attack +7 equivalent.

From there, I'd like to see it possible for all gear to be augmented at least once. In terms of general craft goods, NQs can have 1 slot, HQs can have 2, (H)NM drops could have 1-3, and gear specifically meant for synergy customization could have anywhere from 3-6 slots. Using the earlier Attack +7 idea, if someone wanted to put 6 of those into a corresponding item, let them.

Awesome evoliths can, in turn, come from more difficult content. More average ones can be chanced upon by other means like synthesis, basic NM drops, caskets in FoV/GoV/Abyssea, and so on. They shouldn't be stupid rare, either. Pretty much any mod in the game should be able to be found somewhere, and hopefully not in uselessly paltry amounts. If need be, level restrictions can be placed on specific evoliths that could change the receiving item's level requirements. However, proper scaling throughout player levels should still be considered so it isn't suddenly like "Oh hey, I'm level 60, time to make some synergy gear!" It should be an option from level 1 onward.

Try to avoid negative mods.

More specific to the synergy process, the menu is slow and clunky. This'll probably be a PS2 limitations moment, but I'd like to instead have a graphically based menu representing the furnace where navigating controls would hover over options like Thwack and so on. Meanwhile, all the fewell options would be set overhead for easy access. Click whatever and it primes the command for a confirm/cancel button. Minimum cooldowns can be placed on confirmations to maintain similar difficulty, or emphasize being slowed/stunned by overloads. If you're confused on this, I can make a cheesy photoshop representation.

I'll leave things at that for now, partially out of curiosity to see what others may think on things.

[Zirael]

It’s been quite a bit of time since our last post about synthesis and synergy. With one update about to occur and future update planning taking place now, we’d like to get some good hard feedback about the synergy system. What would you like to see happen with synergy going forward? What kind of adjustments/changes/new things are you interested in? Let us know!
[...]
Looking forward to all of your ideas and requests!
For now I have only one gripe with Synergy and that is menu lag. When I get 'explosion message' I have enough time to select 1 action before explosion occurs, if I chose remote/deserted area, I can do 2 actions at most. From what I understand, people living close to servers (Japan) are able to select up to about 4 actions? Also, jumping between all the menus is a bit cumbersome.
What I would propose: Make furnace operation possible through macros. There aren't really that many commands to be done (Feed Fewell x8 for each element, End Synergy, Thwack Furnace, Operate Pressure Valve, Operate Safety Lever, Repair Furnace, Recycle strewn fewell).
Why do I have to fight with menus and wait for menu reload after each action taken? I's the same as asking people to type in all battle comands through chatlog, etc. Macro it all already, please.

[Atomic_Skull]

Just DON'T make upgrading Limbus and Salvage gear Synergy related and I will be happy.

[Vxsote]

As a level 99 goldsmith and 79 synergist, and student of the economy of FFXI, here are my thoughts on synergy:

First and foremost, synergy must be considered as part of the overall FFXI economy, where the health of one will always affect the health of the other. Strengthening the overall economy will give synergy more room to grow, and strengthening synergy will boost the economy. I hope this relationship will become more apparent as I discuss some of the more detailed points.

Next, I'd like to state that I generally like synergy. There are a lot of haters out there, but my general feeling is that many of them will complain no matter what, especially about anything that actually requires effort. Please do not cave to demands that essentially amount to people wanting something for nothing. The purpose of synergy must be to add value to items/gear/materials, and that value must come at a price. The trick is to find the right balance.

Moving on, there are several specific issues with synergy itself that can be addressed to improve the system:

Relevance
This is a problem with both synergy and crafting in general. It seems over the last several years, there has been a distinct shift from much high end gear being crafted to most of it being ra/ex drops or quested items. Take rings as an example. Once a staple of goldsmithing, it is now rare to see a high-end DD wearing one crafted ring, let alone two. Items such as the Rajas Ring, and more recently Epona's Ring, have become the standard to meet.

Weapons and visible armor face similar challenges, as Magian and Empyrian items are quite exceptional. Even slightly older synergy items, such as the level 77 weapons, are now completely obsolete... especially those that can be found in abyssea chests with significant augments on them.

One possible solution would be to return to having more high-end crafting materials drop from NMs, which must be then synergized into quality, must-have gear. Think of something like the Noble's Tunic (back when it was worth 15M gil). Another possibility would be to require synergized items to be turned in to an NPC to complete high-end gear, similar to salvage gear (but at lower cost, please).

Time and Difficulty
One of the reasons that synergy is unpopular is that the time required to complete a single recipe is much greater than that of a traditional craft. Sometimes superior yields reward the investment of time, but not always. While you listed mass production as a positive aspect for synergy, that is offset by the fact that recipes take longer to begin with.

At the same time, the maximum time allocated to complete a single recipe is way too short. I understand that part of the idea behind synergy is to use teamwork, and that the time limit is intended to present a challenge. But synergy should not be a race to complete the recipe before the furnace craps out, especially given that client performance and menu latency play a significant role. Some recipes are difficult to balance, and I am ok with that difficulty, but we should be given more time to fine-tune our results so that we don't have to start over so often after a single error. I would suggest that you at least double the amount of time available to complete a recipe. Quickness in operation of the furnace is its own reward, as time is our most valuable commodity.

Interface
I agree with what Kalilla posted regarding the chat-and-menu-based interface. It sucks. I know this probably falls into what would normally produce either an "it's too hard" response, or a "PS2 limitations" response - but the chat-based interaction is a severe weakness in the synergy system. Please try to come up with something better.

Marketplace
I consider it a positive aspect of synergy that I can make ex items for people. But that requires crafting on demand, and is not always convenient. Please use caution before implementing too many of these recipes.

Along with my previous statements about the economy, something I want you to consider is the Auction House. The Auction House always has been the primary means of trade in FFXI, and should remain so. However, the AH system has not expanded to accommodate the vast increase in the number of materials since its inception. I believe this deserves its own entire thread, so I won't go into too much detail here. I also know that some ideas have previously been rejected as too difficult, such as allowing customers to place "wanted" orders to be fulfilled. Please reconsider that, and other suggestions, from the perspective that improving the AH will also lead to increased trade, a healthier economy, and aid in the rejuvenation of crafting and synergy. After all, we MUST have an easy way to buy and sell our goods.

I will give a few quick suggestions for the AH though:

Allow "wanted" orders to be placed and fulfilled.
Extend the time for an item to sell to more than 3 days.
Expand the number of slots that each player can use on the AH.


Thanks for reading my suggestions.

[Thala]

Personally, I think the general crafting system of crystal -> recipe -> success/failure is fine. Crafting has very few factors, more skill than anything else. Meanwhile, Synergy seems to have about a dozen factors, and it all seems to be just unnecessarily complex, leaving me with absolutely no interest in pursuing it. In my own perfect little world, Synergy would be abolished entirely, but I know that's an unreasonable request. Instead, I would like to see Synergy as a means of perks. For each Synergy recipe, have an equivalent recipe via general crafting. If you go by way of Synergy, there could be benefits. For example: lower skill requirements, easier recipe, more frequent HQ, greater quantities, etc. That way, Synergists can be properly rewarded, while players like myself who don't want to touch Synergy with a 39.5 foot pole aren't penalized. Let me make use of my high level Woodworking without requiring me to invest time and effort in an unnecessary secondary craft.

[MarkovChain]

Use synergy to craft future endgame gear. Existence of HQ gear with noticable improvements. Requires one high level (~100) specific craft to build.

Example :

Imagine the next endgame gives RDM "D'Artagnan Redingote" and the +1 version. In order to obtain it you need to obtain a rare/ex ingredient "shining redingote".

Level 90 synergy + level 100 clothcraft + shining redingote = D'Artagnan Redingote with chance of HQ(s).


I liked the concept of crafting gear involved with salvage however obtaining the gear was basically trading stuff to an NPC. This time you could imagine the same system but players themselves would craft it. They would also farm the ingredient themsleves (rare ex ingredient). This concept has the merit to benefit people that don't want to get involved in endgame (crafters). If you are hardcore enough you level your own craft/synergy and try many times for the HQ, if not you try your luck for HQ by hiring a crafter . Of course you need to balance NQ/HQ stats.

[Juilan]

It’s been quite a bit of time since our last post about synthesis and synergy. With one update about to occur and future update planning taking place now, we’d like to get some good hard feedback about the synergy system. What would you like to see happen with synergy going forward? What kind of adjustments/changes/new things are you interested in? Let us know!

There are already a lot of you that have posted on this, but for good measure I have a couple requests before you submit feedback:


•If you haven’t already read the post I made previously about the future of synthesis and synergy (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4771-Craft-Skill-Limitations?p=78836&viewfull=1#post78836), please do so.
•Please give us constructive feedback.
•Please avoid any abstract expressions and post specific content.
•We’d appreciate it if you would post suggestions as a set with problems and not just the points you feel are problematic.

Also, just one more personal request…

I will be sure to read each and every one of your posts, so there is really no need to change the font size or color to make it stand out more. Just be sure to not create huge walls of text because that makes it pretty tough for me to get through it when there are a ton of posts to read. With that said, just consider little old Camate, so I can better convey your feedback to the development team.

Looking forward to all of your ideas and requests!

Anyone comment about not wanting another armour system that requires synergy to upgrade it by killing some what tricky NMs for a chance at a drop with a ~2% drop rate?
I also would love to see synergy being able to skill a base craft simultaneously, I haven't seen my gold skill up on it, or anything else... I do think that would be a nice touch to it.

[SpankWustler]

I really like the use of synergy to produce tatters and augment Sky and Abjuration equipment. For the first time, something seemed to fit the synergy system perfectly. I know several people who leveled synergy for this sole purpose. If Homam, Nashira, etc. equipment received similar augments through a similar system I think that would be perfect.

I really dislike expendable items, such as ammunition, only being produced through synergy. I understand the advantages of synergy in terms of making ammunition (or food), but synthesis should also be an option. This would allow players to choose between quality (Synergy) or ease of use (Synthesis). I live in fear that new food will be added with synergy-only recipes.

Also, you have my condolences, Camate. I can't imagine having to read "BLARGARGARGH! I HAET SINERGI I WANT 2 MAEK TROUSERS USING SINTHISES!" four hundred times and possibly tally every one.

[Tezz]

Evolith where do i start?

Fields of Valor & Grounds of Valor + Elite Regime -
Upon completion there is a random chance of obtaining evolith (stats commensurate with difficulty of the page). The bosses of course being more suited for good evolith.

Dungeon Crawlers & Daily Reward System -
The more powerful Evolith should come from here. Maybe not so random stats & 100% chance at obtaining an evolith for completion. Even rarer evolith from the bosses.

Combining Evolith -
High level Synergy can combine evolith that are eligible for combination (marked with an icon on the evolith or a color around the border). Can do away with the "eligible only" if the Devs feel it's ok to be able to combine any evolith.

The process below(may need a few adjustments):
Step 1: Obtain a "Blank Evolith"
Step 2: Etch the Blank Evolith for the desired Evoliths you want combined
Step 3: Place the no longer "Blank Evolith" in the furnace for completion.

Now, the player will have a single evolith with combined stats.

[Kegsay]

The Synergy system is particularly cruel for players with a poor-average connection speed. This is unfair in my opinion. I am lucky enough to be able to thwack furnaces 4 times before it explodes; many others struggle for 3.

Whilst there isn't a single easy solution to this problem, it can put people off synergy if they think that they cannot make the ideal combination of elements in time due to their connections. The best solution I can think of is to remove the time element and make it reactive instead (the element of time is via HP drain / TP readying) which would give players an equal number of 'actions' before an explosion takes place. This way, latency is not an issue.

[xbobx]

"If Synergy/Crafting skills were required for Magian Trail upgrades,"

please dont give them ideas like that. I would quit in a second if they made synergy part of the magian trials.
They should make every synergy synth besides gear upgrades to normal synth skill, especially ammo, that was beyond dumb what they did.

make synergy only for evolith and equipment upgrading, give back crafting to synthesis like it should have stayed.

[Vagrua]

What would you like to see happen with synergy going forward? What kind of adjustments/changes/new things are you interested in?

I would like to see equipment with Synergy: Skill +, Synergy: Increase rate of which Thwack works, Synergy: Less fewell feed from using pressure handle/safety lever/Repair furnace bought with cinder. I would also like this equipment to be in other slots besides ones that already give skill + in other slots.

Example:
Blacksmiths' Stall
Synergy (Adept)
Skills:Smithing (90+)
I would already have Blacksmith's Smock and Smithy's Mitts equipped in the body and hand slots, but still have legs/feet/rings/waist/back/neck open which could be used. Other syths might take use of head slot for skill + such as Goldsmithing's Shaded Specs. You could also provide these from mogenhancements from setting furnishings.

I would like to be able to sign items even if someone else trades the materials to the furnace.

I would like some form of synthesis support added with a fee of cinder or gil.

I would like to be able to stand a few yalms further from the furnace to operate it.

How about HP restored to the furnace once you have aligned one of the elements? Example: "Surge! Lightning Element Achieved. HP has been restored to the furnace" along with an animation to go with it. This would only happen the first time you align the elements right so if it leaked or went overboard and you needed to re feed it to align it right again, then you would not obtain this Surge.

[Leonlionheart]

First off, this is about the Evolith system and not simple synergy reform.

I'm going to get bashed for mentioning other games but, I think we should examine the "Gem" system from WoW or the "Rune" system from Diablo II in regards to Evolith. Essentially, that's what the Evolith system is, but it uses completely random stats that are also way too situational like Vs. Skeletons: enemy cri -1%~3%, instead of static and useful stats like STR+3.

In concept, Evolith and Abjuration gear augmentation is the same thing, except Abjuration gear aug's have absolutely no restrictions like Evolith aug's do. Looking at Evolith, there are insane requirements to get way too underwhelming of effects. They might be strong against certain mobs, but most of the time there is something better, and/or those mobs just don't NEED this gear to be defeated (you could do it with a NQ Haubergeon just as easily). On top of the poor/useless bonuses of Evolith we have the "slot" restrictions where you can only put a certain type of Evolith. This system is great! When you are trying to keep people from abusing powerful slots, I.E. Critical Rate +3% in 3x slots is bad, but in 1 slot something that powerful is fantastic.

Now look at Abjuration Augments. You basically have 3 slots: 1x Random Slot, 1x HQ slot, and 1x Other Stat slot. The random slot can get anything from Water Resistance+1 to STR+6 to HP+25. The HQ slot can get (for example) Cure Potency +1~5% on Genbu's Shield, and the Other Stat is something that is preditermined on that piece of gear (Genbu's Shield is MACC+1~6? Cure Casting Time -1~8%?) Let's be honest. What are we looking at? Hardly restricted Evolith slots without the hassle and headache of farming Evolith. The only restrictions is the predetermined stats (Other than the random slot), most of which are already ideal on that piece of equipment. What we saw in Evolith was very little diversity between desirable Evolith, making the system be very similar to the ABJ augs. Certain Evolith could only be put into certain slots, specifically designed for that piece of gear, as in you couldn't put more than 1~3 types of Evolith for one piece of gear.

Ok so those are the issues. To be fixed they need some sort of reform, starting with how to obtain the Evolith. It needs to be AHable, craftable, and desirable. They shouldn't each be unique drops from unique NMs, there's no motivation to go camp those NMs other than one person getting a small chance at an evolith; a simply awful way to get players motivated. Making them craftable will bring more life into a completely inflated currency, and a need for gil beyond Voidwatch/KCNM gear and Abyssea Pop Items. The materials themselves should not be plentiful, but not completely scarce either. The drop rate of Tree Cuttings from Goobue was a good example of something worth farming; good amount of time and effort compared to reward is very desirable. Furthermore the more powerful Evolith SHOULD be hard as hell to get. Something as powerful as STR+6 needs to be hard to obtain.

Desirable is the biggest issue. Making something situationally good is great, but the ability to Augment (for example) Ravager's Mufflers +2 with Attack+12, or Haste+3~4% would make people go crazy for that piece of Evolith. Bale Gauntlets +2 being augmented through evolith with VIT+6~10, or WS DMG +3% would be a game changer, and everyone and their mother would want to go out and get that Evolith. What would really make Evolith shine is it become more simple, and more uniform. Make it so that both Bale Gauntlets AND Ravager's Mufflers could be slotted and equiped with WS DMG+3%, but don't allow Ferine Manoplas +2 to use it, for example. Keep balance in mind, yet don't completely restrict any usefulness like the current Evolith system.

Maybe add quests to add slots to powerful gear? Have some sort of slotted gear AHable? Really as long as you give augments worth using the possibilities will be endless.

Evolith could be an amazing system if you let it.

[Rezeak]

Evolith was a decent idea but the stats were far far too low.

Also the system for evolith was lazy and boring as well.

While i'm happy to say leave Evolith system in the past IF we're gonna go back to it i have a few suggestions.

Make evolith hard to get but the stats worth it.
Then make it so we can remove evolith without losing it then we could have a system that allows people to change our gear for each situation.

I mean weapons where we can choose OAT2-3 or DMG+20 with Attack/Acc/DA/TA or the emperyan WS would be awsome.

but honestly atm trial weapon system is pretty good atm (tho some weapons are too hard for what you really get)

[Ciecle]

Synergy:

Synergy is a fun tool to utilize, but it does not have near enough recipes as it should. The plan behind synergy was to be able to make items in 'mass', and be able to use it for Evoliths/augments, as well as making rare/ex gear.

Making items in a 'mass' production lowers costs on things a ton. Which puts a hurting on synthesis crafters. If it was possible,

Q: can you make it to where synergy makes items that crafters can use and vice versa instead of it being one sided?

Evoliths/Augments: The evolith system seemed like it had a good idea planed behind it, but the plan was not followed through...

Q: Is it possible to have more(and 'better') gear with much larger slots and for Evoliths to get bigger and stronger as our levels increase and for Evoliths to have a wider range of coverage then the current evoliths provide? i.e Evolith: Augments Azure Lore: Damage + 25% O:15.

Synthesis:

As a leathercrafter, it's harder to find leathers now that aren't being overshadowed by Synergy's 'better'(or to fit the level gap from old gear vs new) gear making it very hard to get the motivation to push myself over the limit and hit that 100 mark.

I am very much looking forward to the increase in stats on crafting 'HQ.' items. the only problem is this doesn't benefit crafters that HQ things like Behemoth leather when it has no specific 'HQ.'. It's very 'UGH!' to see you waste that potential HQ for a leather that shouldnt be 'HQ.'-able.

Q: If it's possible, can SE make things that 'HQ.' for say leather working into 'HQ.' versions of the specific leather(I.E Behemoth Leather > HQ. Behemoth Leather) so that when we use these specific items in crafting particular items with these 'HQ.' versions of the leathers, that it increases the chances of 'HQ.ing' the craft? (I.e increasing the HQ rate of items 10 levels or lower by 15~50% and by 5~10% for those items that are higher level or 9 levels below the current skill)?

[Kavik]

- Situational pieces are good, but please do not make them too specific. Ex: Accuracy vs. slimes. The chance of a player wanting to carry around such equipment is fairly minimal if they play multiple jobs and the equipment cannot be stored.

Amen! There has been mention of combining evoliths, this would be nice, get enough vs mob type kind of evolith's and make one that is universally nice for the piece of gear, such as str +3 or def +10 (regardless of family).


- I enjoyed the evolith system because it still included monster battles outside of town. One could not simply sit on a pile of gil crafting within town to 'build' pieces of evolith gear. They had to go out and hunt monsters or do other content. I thought this was a successful concept. In the end however, I think it failed because of how overly specific the gear was.

Just quoted this as an 'i agree statement'.

Also, I LOVE the idea of being able to change the color of your gear through pigments, but i disliked having to wait 2 weeks to make my armor red since it required a high level of smithing, I don't think you should require high level craft simply for color. While i'm on this point, i don't think you should require a high level synthesis craft for any synergy recipe (other then synergy of course), if you need a high level craft to level synergy you really need to be able to level that craft while synergyzing. Synergy is a crafting skill, none of the other crafts require a 2nd or 3rd high level craft to be able to complete all recipes in that category. While i know this is to encourage players to communicate and 'team up' this is not always easy to do when you need at least 4 high level crafting players, which i think we all know are difficult to come by, especially when they will usually have MUCH better things to do. Granted it is not horribly hard to get some crafts to 50 that is not really the point. Call me a soloist or whatever, but i think getting the item with a party is enough of the 'team up' effort, you should be able to try at your own gear for hours and hours without someone having to sit there while you blow up the furnace 20 times. Just my thought.

[Caria]

A preface for background: I am an alchemist level 95+1, have 7 jobs at 90 with Dragoon as my main job. I have completed my empyrean weapon Rhongomiant and am 70% completed with my relic Gungnir. I worked to create Sarissa (the evolith polearm) back when it was a competitive weapon for drg. I also have Corsair and Ninja leveled, both of which use consumables regularly at a prodigious rate. I have played for a number of years since long before the recent changes. I'm satisfied with some changes, appalled by others. One of the saddest and most distressing, however, in my mind, is the plight of the craftsman in Vana'diel.

Okay, here's my blurb. Much of it has been said, but I'm going to say it again. Everything, however, boils down to one point. Right now, synthesis is pretty dead. SE has introduced Synergy, hoping it would reignite synthesis. It didn't. It has provided a few new recipes. A few of those are worth doing, but mostly only things like beastmaster jugs. The fact is, synthesis is pretty much dead; and it is for one very simple reason: Synthesis is no longer an integral part of the player experience.

Prior to the series of changes involving level caps, abyssea, and other changes, every player at some point had to rely on a craftsman. When a player wanted to get armor, a high percentage of the best gear available involved a craftsman. Whether it was directly crafted, like the best STR+ or INT+ rings; dusk(+1) gear for haste; blessed or noble's set for whm; relic weapons, and so forth, or it was an upgraded piece like AF(2)+1 or abjuration gear, at some point, the player had to involve a craftsman to create something for him. Whether he did this personally with friends or via the auction house, he was absolutely dependent on a craftsman for a vast proportion of the gear most players wanted. In addition, many or most people needed to consume food, tools, jugs, ammo, potions or other items for their activities to succeed. All of these depended directly on the craftsman of Vana'diel to supply. It was nearly impossible to obtain more than the very rudimentary of these items by any means other than from craftsman.

Now, here we are, over a year later. Most jobs can be very satisfactorily, if not completely optimally, geared with AF2+3, rings and other accessories that drop directly from nms, and empyrean weapons. Not a single one of these items requires a crafted item anywhere. Granted, there are a few very nice pieces that remain. For some jobs, the dusk+1 hands are still the best option for haste (if the af3+2 and bullwhip+twilight belt doesn't take them to the haste gear cap.). There are a few very nicely competitive pieces from synergy, like the Alcide's harness, that could be used. However, these are mostly overlooked because they are expensive and roughly the same as gear available from notorious monsters directly. Food buffs are largely irrelevant due to the availability of atma inside abyssea and the vast increase of a character's power from the recent 15 levels when facing enemies outside abyssea. Ammunition has become less attractive than ever, largely because melee jobs have overtaken ranged ones. Corsairs and rangers don't have the ammunition to keep up with the recent increases in other jobs' power, and minor changes in their role (like adding treasure hunter to ranger) aren't going to repair the problem. Ninja tools have been replaced by non-crafted versions that are NPC buyable, putting a cap on how much a craftsman can charge for tools.

When it comes down to revitalizing crafting, the one thing that will work, the only thing that will work, is to make it necessary again. Not just a possible alternative, but the only way to do some things. As such, I want to propose the following:

1) Every time a player wishes to upgrade a weapon or armor, a part of that trial should be to obtain a synthesized item. Whether that be for upgrading artifact or relic armor to +2 versions, or performing upgrades for their empyrean gear from abyssea, they should need to obtain an item that is only available from a craftsman.

2) Expendables, whether they be ammo, jugs, ninjutsu tools, food, or potions, should only be available from craftsman. This means that materials will need to be available to craftsman to create, implying that droprates must be reasonable on mobs. However, even if droprates are plentiful, if you expect a craftsman to take the time to turn raw materials into bolt/arrowheads and then into arrows, the players are going to need to be ready to pay for that time. To make that reasonable, it will need to be at least 25-30k per stack of quivers. It just isn't worth the time otherwise. The same is true for tools and food and the rest. Providing NPC alternatives at prices comparable to crafted options is not acceptable; it is very counter-productive.

3) Directly crafted armor. There must be armor that all players want for their jobs that is only available by crafting, with no equally pleasant alternatives. Whether this be rings or gloves, hats or chainmail sets, some of it has to be the best a player can get. No exceptions. This armor is a one time investment by each player. They will never buy a second. As such, it needs to be worth crafting in small amounts, which means that profit margins will need to be in the 6 and 7 figure range. This is not unreasonable for one-time purchases.

Now, I realize that much of what has happened has been because the goal has been to make the game more accessible to players who are just starting and who do not have large amounts of time, gil, or linkshell members to get them their gear. However, in doing so, crafting has been completely undermined from both sides. The foundation of crafting must be supply and demand; the supply has been undermined by additional sources like NPC-bought tools and augmented gear, the demand by making the non-crafted alternatives better than or equal to the crafted alternatives. The only way to revitalize synthesis and synergy is by addressing the core problems. Revisiting the idea of evoliths is not going to fix the problem in and of itself, unless it addresses these problems.

One possible way of addressing some of this would be to provide a way to obtain evolith from the gear you obtain in other ways by some manner of desynthesis, and then reintegrate those evolith into custom gear based on the stats you chose, or by replacing (further and/or current) upgrades on gear by giving them evolith instead and then requiring a synergist to do etch and attach the evolith. This would begin to address at least one of the problems I detailed above.

Evolith are a great concept. The ability to customize your gear to be exactly what you want is wonderful. However, it never really worked that way. Each piece of gear only had a few different evoliths it could hold in each slot, and they were never extensive enough. Also, getting an evolith with the maximum stats for that slot was utterly too time consuming. I remember spending days down in SSG trying to get the right evolith to drop at max value. (I spent more time on that weapon than I did making my Rhongomiant and never did get the max stats before it was outdated. Far too much for too little value).

The best way to make evolith useful would be to make gear expandable. Make it so players can collect evolith for everything conceivable, and then attach them with very few restrictions to gear. This would allow players to use synergy to simplify their gear sets, rather than expanding them. With so much gear, players all could use a system to combine the gear that they have, or to add the buffs they have on swap gear onto their main gear set.

[Gokku]

as a person who recently leveled alot of his crafts and sub crafts and synergy to 100 /60 /60 /80 respectively i am extremely disappointed in the synergy system. Now Cloth craft and Goldsmith have great synths they can do and even make very good money. when in retrospect the amount of profitable synths for Smithing leather craft woodworking etc are next to none and the only synths making money are among some of the most difficult synths to do in the game.

There is nothing "positive" about leveling a craft in final fantasy you spend millions of gil and at least a month of your time for what? some crafts cave some synths but its nothing like it was with the level 75 cap. No longer can you level a craft to 100 and feel accomplished now you level and its pointless since every synth that used to be worthwhile is useless now and all other synths are synergy.

I know Se plans to add Dual 100 crafts and 100 synergy and crafts for both , but unless there is revisions made to basic crafts or even attractive crafts for just your BASIC crafter its going to remain something only a few do. Synergy wise there needs to be a small heal or buff to the furnace when doing the harder synths you cant expect a solo player to make these increasingly harder synths. Se really needs to stop punishing players and add some sense of accomplishment when you reach 100 or at least allow skill ups on synergy and the craft your doing .

tldr , make normal crafts , my synergy synths for all crafts , stop punishing crafters and start rewarding them for there work.

Prime Example : Grim Cuirass
Elemental Balance: Resist Vs. Fire 70 Resist Vs. Wind 35 Resist Vs. Earth 35 Resist Vs. Light 20 Resist Vs. Dark 35

Now the Fire 73 ok easy to do , takes about idk 30 secs to get fire that high
Earth/Wind also not bad takes a bit to get them right and youll get some fire leaking along the way but over all ok
Light/Dark you know this is hell on earth to do , it can take hours before light / dark line up.
ive had a grim synth take anywhere from 10mins to 2 hours to make just because light / dark messed up thats unacceptable and this is with another 80 synergyist helping me. alone ive been unable to keep the furnace lights lined up feed the light fellwel needed to repair it back to full prevent all leaks and explosions and get light / dark aligned.

[Creelo]

Personally, I'd rather the dev. team ditch working on Evolith and instead work on other content, whatever it may be.

[Leonlionheart]

I feel really bad for Camate. Reading this has got to be like reading an endless research paper that states similar things over and over again- written by different people varying from retarded to brilliant.

However in this labyrinth of opinion there are very good points and very good counter arguments, and I do hope that the development team gets some of the suggestions and considers them.

[Aquilla]

Vxsote said it perfectly. I like all of his points. I think that everyone who replied so far made excellent points, but if only one gets read, it should be Vxsote's.

I'd like to add my vote to the "Evoliths are way too situational" group. Nobody will ever want to have a piece of gear that only works vs. a single mob family.

Also, gear that the evoliths could go on is pretty rare. At the moment, there is no reason why I would ever want an evolith or one of the etchable synergy specific gearsets.

what I like!:

-- warp rings. The jeuno ring got a lot of use from me when I was questing.

-- cool furnishings. My sister collects 'em, and they were fun to make together.

-- group synthing. I admit I didn't think it'd work, but its actually not that bad, and kind of fun! Me and my family got together and made some rings and furnishings.

suggestions/wishlist!:

-- Evolith that give a set amount of stats. Example: accuracy+10, evasion+5, str+2, what have you. No mob family specific evolith, please.

--make every piece of gear etchable. Is it really going to break the game at this point? I don't think so. It'll definitely get everyone wanting synergy, though. It might allow people to condense some of their gear. Even if there are limits as to how many evoliths/what strenght can go on a piece.

--make synergy give certain aesthetic value to armor. Even if it gives no stats, being able to dye a piece of gear a certain color is going to make this craft very popular. We are a vain bunch.

-- no more sidegrades. I like situational gear -- heck, I still have a VIT/chakra swap for my monk -- but please, SE, we don't need any *more* gear. Give us a way to condense some of it. It's okay to have gear swaps, but most people posting here mention that they have 70+ pieces just for everyday, regular stuff. It's okay if you let us condense some of it.

-- I'm firmly in the realm of 'it'll never happen', but prism staff. With the magian trials separating magic accuracy/magic damage/smn perp staves, what's a mage to do? How's about letting us put some of those staves together?

that is all ^^

[Vagrua]

Vxsote
-- I'm firmly in the realm of 'it'll never happen', but prism staff. With the magian trials separating magic accuracy/magic damage/smn perp staves, what's a mage to do? How's about letting us put some of those staves together?


I wish this could actually happen. Maybe trading multiple staffs to combine into one as a synergy recipe/trial though only referring to magician trials that have sets of similar augments like perp and magic damage ones as mentioned.

Example:
Synergy recipe: Agni's staff +2 Vayu's staff +2 Indra's staff +2 Surya's staff +2 Kubera's staff +2 Varuna's staff +2 Soma's staff +2 Yama's staff +2 becomes
Supreme staff
Magic Acc +1
Magic Damage +5
Casting time -12%


Being able to combine pet axes together would be really nice too such as having evasion axes combine with pdt ones.

Example:
Synergy recipe: Guichard's axe +2 x2 becomes
Supreme axe
VIT+9 AGI+9
Pet:
Phys. dmg taken -10% Evasion +20

Being able to mix around the augments, yet having limits of usually only two weapons combined excluding cases like magic damage and perp staffs.

[Inafking]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Unit_Robe_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ram_Hauberk_Set
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Harness_Set

Please let me augment items I spent much time obtaining.

[Aarahs]

Replace synergy time limits with a point system that increases points based on skill level. This way success rate isn't dependent on connection speed. You can still make multiple people required since the action points run out. There would still be strategy/player skill as you would have to plan/adjust for overloading and such. And minimal tweaking of the menu would be needed as there would be no rush to hunt for an option.

[Mightyg]

I think just streamlining the synergy minigame into something a little more fun, maybe a cutscene event like some of the campaign ops would go a long way to getting people on board. Evolith should just go the way of the dodo, it's too complicated, too limited, and not rewarding enough. Augments should be significant, limited in stats by equipment slot, not job. and clear in how to obtain.

[Nala]

Bleh been unable to post for a few days even though ive been reading this thread all along >.<

no further expantion on the hunt registry system, rare/ex preset evoliths, craftable evoliths, revamp of the slotting system/shapes, no more situational evoliths straight/static stat boosts (save for maybe hq'd crafted evoliths), make all gear etchable.

either add an automaton attachment type system for acquired evoliths so you do not have to constantly reaquire evoliths when upgrading (would limit you to 1 evolith of each potency aka 1 str +3 +4 +5 ect) or make all evoliths over writable, this would make demand for certain evoliths and give people a reason to keep coming back to certain NM's though i think most would be against the second idea.

anyways when i first heard they were adding the evolith system (i know im about to get flamed for this but /sigh) i was kind of excited because i thought we were getting an "enchantment" style system (yes i know yall hate it but wow... god forbid another game have a better way of doing things...) if you look at the way wow goes about it now its kinda evolith style, you can purchase premade enchantments off the AH and apply them to your gear.

The point of all that i've said so far, they want to make synergy relevant, most of us have voiced our opinion that random augments is just about the last thing we want to see, yes the old evolith system was less then ideal, lets revamp it. we know this dev team knows a thing or two about how players gear their jobs, see af3+2 save for a few outlying pieces in each category have very applicable stats, id much rather the dev team make an evolith system even the haters could apreciate then waste time on another synergy based system, whether you like the synergy system or not they are moving in this direction with or without your input, i implore you to contribute vice just say evoliths sucks, no duh, thats the point of this thread in the first place.

if you dont like the evolith system by all means please suggest a better way of going about augmenting gear, but if all you have to say is synergy sucks, evoliths sucks dont bother anymore your not even being constructive.

[Covenant]

I'm not a synergist.

That being said, I always envisioned synergy system as one of not only augment but one of EVOLUTION. A pictured an item which could continually be built upon with bonuses(good stats). Not one of randomness and junk benefits. Specialize gear to specific families of creatures are lame. Adding -5secs on a 2nd timers is lame.

The "good" ones were the time decreases,but gear already existed that had better returns.

If you want to make synergy pop here a few things to do.

On regular synergy item(ex apple pies) allow a greater chance at HQ returns.

On "beast family" gear allow greater returns such as intimidation and "rolls".

On timers, especially 2hr allow a instant return rather than keeping armor "on" and allow greater returns such as 30min increments. On recast timers allow greater returns approaching tier 3 or higher speed.

Where are the "charged" items/gear. Having a piece that gives a regen IV~iiX effect is interesting. Create new tier charge items.

Slots are lame. Create a system were armor lvls(increments of 10) can hold greater potency and can be "upgraded". For example, a lvl10 gear can only hold 1 "slot". A lvl99 can hold 9 "slots". Slots are considered upgrades. Max of 3 "types" of augments. Meaning a bonus of +9 to single augments, or +3 to 3 augments.

Slots are the standards, and eliminate shapes and colors or whatever. The greater the slots and upgraded the harder to synergze. Each synergies items can only be attempted once per conquest(1 earth week).

Create multi-effect augments tied to specific game styles. Example mages, mp conserve, fast cast, MaB etc.

[Cljader1]

By the way lets bring back Aern Weapons (for ex: like the galatyn, machismo etc.) I would love to see a second tier for these types of weapons and would like too see a Aern scythe and shield added in too. I always considered these to be crafted relics, it would be my crafting dream for you guys to add a second tier of these that could complete with emyphean weapons. The Aern weapons set should have there own unique WS, maybe that could be installed in the form of powerful evoliths. I have no problem with the second tier of these weapons being very expensive or hard to make, but Aern weapons and maybe even Aern type armor can be the shining beacon on what crafting can do.

[Lastranger]

Synergy menu problem
Please if posible add a macro command set tto synergy, like many allready posted the npc menu with it's lag is a killer on anyone levling synergy.
Sugestion macro command = /synergy "Feed Earth" <t>
/synergy "Twack furnace" <t>
/synergy "End Synergy" <t>

although it may not fix all the connection problems related to lag it at least would allow crafters to have a pre made menu made into macro set for synergy, making the expirience a bit less painful and anoying.

As an added bonus this would also allow those off us that have 2 acounts with crafts levled to synergize together without having to bother nonplayer friends and having to explain the whole synergy process.


Evolith system problem
I agrea with a lot here, that except from doing reapeted BCNM's that r caped against same family mob the restrictions on evoliths towards family was a bit much and ruined the greatnes that Evolith should have been.

Personaly i wish the system might be reworked to a little less restricted version.
Add evoliths in elementh types and non element.
Example = Earth Evolith could have +vit +def or slow vs monsters, etc
Fire Evolith could have +Str +Att +Double attack or status effects like Virus vs monster

To add a layer to complexity, u could make the evoliths like the one's we have today Type oriented so some effects is possible for wepons only or body only and some would be max amount type on a agumentable type armour so there wont be gear would double/triple same stats agumented.

Evolith Crafting through synergy
Allow some evoliths to be crafted toghether for new variations using various crafts.
The ability to combine some Evolith's farmed from monster hunts with some special materials from crafts to further boost the stat on the Evolith dropped or add an extra stat more pinpointed at what u want on ur gear.

These could be a special type Evolith so they may be limited to 1 on each piece of gear or only on specific types of gear.

Example = Base Fire Evolith from hunt has +5 attack , the synergy adds a Cluster of fire elemeth type + a crafted
item that points the elementh power towards Double attack + some synergy bought item as to fuse it all
into the Evolith.
Result = new Fire Evolith with stats +5 attack +1% Double attack (HQ = +5 Attack +2% Double attack )

Have some rare items for the craft be Special drop like items that boost multilple stats, like one that in example above would also add +str +Double attack or +Attack +Str, where the HQ always allows for a better result scaling up.

Have some of the easier craft items be stuff that can improve curent stats on hunted/found Evolith's as well

Example = Fire Evolith with stats +5 attack, synergy items Fire Cluster + Crafted item that boost existing stats of
fire elemeth + some synergy bought item for the fuseion process,
Result = +8 attack as NQ and Scaling with each level of HQ so HQ1 might be +10, HQ2 is +12 etc
but the scale is based on base stat so if the base is higher the boost yields more for every HQ for higher
level Gear/Evoliths
Gear will determin if the etching gets full use of the evolith stat on a level basis so one cant get +35attack
on a level 10 piece of gear ( example )


Food Evolith
Allow a special type Evolith to augement food, make these evolith's buyable from npc or drops from some BCnm's etc

The food Evolith should have own types as well, but to avoid overpowering food items make it so if u augement a meat food with allready attack on it u get a difrent stat still relevant to a DD.

Example = Yellow Curry has loads of +attack etc, Fire Food Evolith Grants one of these eeffects random Double attack
+1% or Blaze Spikes or +50 Fire resist or EnFire1. (scaled effect on HQ or posibility of 2 effects at once)

But try keep the randoms at a low nr of buffs posible so we dont got 20+ possible stats added making the craft to unpredictable and once more people wont use it cause of too low chance for good augement.
3 -5 posibility's should be good.

hopefully i didnt wear out ur poor moogle eye's

[Manque]

I would like to echo the idea of including a new system, or revamping the old system, for aern weapons as well. They have some pretty cool models. I was disappointed to not see them recycled or re-used after they were implemented.

[Nala]

alot of those were just specialized skins for already exsisting weapons but still got to agree they were cool looking, food enhancing evoliths... hmm not a bad idea, allows for effect from gear all the while encouraging players to use food however that would only help stimulate one small portion of the economy.

[nitsuj]

I just want to add that I spent 3 weeks killing NM's to get an "Aptant: Healing" and 200-500k buying a pair of Ebon Spats so that I could use this cool Evolith system to make healing mp +2 pants...

In 3 weeks, the Aptant never dropped, and over the next month I tried again and again to get it when I had time to no avail. In the next patch, as I was camping the NM again, SE added hMP+3 pants, rendering the farming useless.

So, if this Evolith has a ~1% drop rate, and you're just going to make a better drop in Abyssea, why have the system in the first place? :(

[MarkovChain]

yigit seraweels give 2 hmp...

[Nala]

guess that was it? well hopefully the dev team will take on board our suggestions or at least use them as a guage to come up with an even better method at going at it, agree with the few others before text based commands for synergy would be great.

[Covenant]

I had a thought about automaton attachments. What if through synergy a "purer" form of attachments were possible? What I mean is, what if the synergized attachments mimic regular ones, but actually had one less elemental restriction. This would mean that pup could add additional attachments and not be capped at two or three attachments of a particular element?

Or, could just be a higher tier of current attachments?