Compendium of Summoner Job Issues

[Rakshaka]

Compendium of Summoner Job Issues

Hi Everyone, veteran Summoner Rakshaka here (been playing for 7.5 years, please forgive my lack of forum posts). With the "New Avatars Are Coming" getting some developer attention (meaning someone's listening to us), I thought I'd put together a list of all current issues with the Summoner job in hopes of getting some issues addressed. This thread isn't meant to present new ideas for improving the job; it's meant to serve as a potential todo list for the developers.

Avatars and Spirits:
The Assault command has no effect if your pet is too far away from you

The range of the Assault command (from the summoner to the target) varies by the model scale of the target.
Example:
The assault range on Black Shuck in the Tier 10 Assault "Better than one" is so short that you can get hit by Gates of Hades while at maximum assaulting range. The assault range on Cerberus in mount zhayolm is so large that at maximum assault range you won't be hit by Gates of Hades. Black Shuck's model size is much smaller than Cerberus'.

Sometimes when your pet is dead, you will not be able to summon another pet. During this time you get a system message stating that you already have a pet. This issue may be caused by the pet dying from a DoT effect.

Pets can glitch and ignore retreat commands. They will retreat for one second and then resume hitting the target, even if the target is attacking the pet and not the summoner

There are no log messages provided when avatar-generated buffs wear off of of avatars or other party members

Spirits:
Spirit spellcasting is easily interrupted. Almost any attack will interrupt them.

Spirit spells are resisted very often. This coincides with the previous issue; they both may be caused by the spirits having a very low magic skill level.

A spirit will re-apply shock, burn etc. even if the monster has it already. This may be because potency of the enfeeble is reduced over time. Either that, or the elemental doesn't check if the monster has the debuff already.

Light spirit does not learn Regen 2, 3, 4 or 5

Light spirit does not learn Cure 6

Light spirit does not learn Curaga 5.

Dark Spirit does not learn Drain 2 or Aspir 2

Dark spirit does not learn Absorb-ACC, or Absorb-TP

Dark Spirit knows stun even though Stun is of the lightning element

Light spirit can only cast on targets that it's facing. Light spirit does not have a face which makes this difficult.

Light spirit behaves differently in Full Moon Fountain. It's able to cast on anyone, no matter which way it's facing, and it's unable to move while casting. (This probably isn't important enough to fix, but thought I'd add it for some cool trivia)

Puppetmasters and beastmasters are able to command their pet to attack without losing the invisible status effect. When summoners use assault, their invisible status effect wears off. Please let summoners use assault without losing the effect of invisible.

Zodiac Ring does not affect Elemental Siphon when used with Light Spirit on Lightsday, or Dark Spirit on Darksday.

Avatars:
The potency of Diabolos' Noctoshield is the same now as it was at level 75. This means that comparitively it's becoming weaker as we gain more levels. Are there any plans to rectify this by scaling Noctoshield's potency past level 75? (It does scale by level before level 75). Many other blood pacts also do not scale past lvl 75.

Thunderspark's range from the avatar to the target is larger than the AOE radius of Thunderspark. This also applies to Ultimate Terror. The aoe range should be extended.

The Blood Pacts Thunderspark, Lunar Roar, Sleepga, Nightmare, Ultimate Terror, and Slowga (and probably others) have a smaller AOE range than ~ga spells. Again, the aoe range should be extended.

Carbuncle and Fenrir are not resistant to their respective elements

No log messages are produced when Lunar Roar removes buffs from enemies.

No log messages are produced when avatar-generated buffs wear off of avatars and party members.

No log messages are produced when avatar-generated enfeebles wear off of enemies.

The extended magic aggro range because of weather is still present in the protocrystals. Meaning, the avatars within the protocrystals will aggro you if you cast magic at twice the normal magic aggro range. This effect of weather was removed from the rest of the zones in the game previously.

The following bullet point of [dev 1239] was not implemented. Avatar's Favor saw no increase in potency. Both the initial and final values of Avatar's Favor were checked after the update; these values matched the values of Avatar's Favor prior to the update.
"The effects of Avatar’s Favor will be increased."

Graphical Bugs:
There are two animations for elemental siphon; the first animation shows MP coming out of a target, the second shows MP going into the target. The first animation currently targets the caster when it should be targeting the elemental. Refer to Mana Cede to see how the animation should occur; the first animation should occur on one entity (smn or pet), and the second animation should occur on the other entity (smn or pet).

Garuda's Aero 2 Blood Pact uses the animation of Aeroga 2, not Aero 2.

Carbuncle's Holy Mist animation is the same as Holy 2.

Pavor Nocturnus uses the same animation as the Death spell.

Fenrir's right eye is not modeled correctly. Compare the right eye with the left eye while looking at him from the front. Beneath the right eye, the model goes into fenrir's body, instead of creating the red area underneath the eye that exists under the left eye.

Ramuh's Thunderstorm animation has two parts, the vertical lightning, and the glowing circles on the ground. The vertical lightning rotates clockwise, while the glowing circles that should be aligned with the vertical lightning rotate counter clockwise. The rotation direction of either the columns or the circles is inverted.

Ramuh's Judgment Bolt animation has four parts, the inner vertical lightning, the outer vertical lightning, the inner glowing circles on the ground, and the outer glowing circles on the ground.The inner vertical lightning rotates clockwise, and the outer lightning rotates counter clockwise. However, the inner circles rotate counter clockwise, and the outer circles rotate clockwise, which is the opposite direction of their corresponding vertical lightning columns. Again, the rotation direction of either the columns or the circles is inverted.


Please add to this list:
I know I'm forgetting some issues as I'm writing this. Please contribute any quirks, bugs, or problems that you know of that's related to the SMN job. Hopefully someone important will take notice and fix the issues that we're providing.

Gogo SMN!

[Soundwave]

Sometimes when your pet is dead, you will not be able to summon another pet. During this time you get a system message stating that you already have a pet.

Pets can glitch and ignore retreat commands. They will retreat for one second and then resume hitting the target, even if the target is attacking the pet and not the summoner

1: Yes
2: This is because you still have hate on the mob?

[Rakshaka]

1: Yes
2: This is because you still have hate on the mob?

2: No, I'm talking about the following situation. Your avatar is attacking a monster. You tell your avatar to Retreat. It pulls back for a second towards you, then engages the mob again. At no point in time is the monster ever targeting you. The monster is always attacking the avatar.

[Korpg]

2: No, I'm talking about the following situation. Your avatar is attacking a monster. You tell your avatar to Retreat. It pulls back for a second towards you, then engages the mob again. At no point in time is the monster ever targeting you. The monster is always attacking the avatar.

Not always. If the avatar has just a little bit more hate than you, it will obey your command. But if you pull hate from the avatar (usually this happens when you retreat an avatar who's first hit was really a miss) then the avatar will attack the mob to establish hate away from you. This feature is one of the SMN's main abilities and also allows the use of "Carby kiting."

Just let the avatar get a hit in before retreating, or retreat the avatar from a larger distance. Be aware, though, that some mobs have a higher enmity loss than others, meaning that you can shed a lot more hate from being hit on those types of mobs. So you might have to wait for the avatar to hit the mob 2-3 times before being able to retreat it to a safer distance.

[Babekeke]

Spirits do gain access to enfeebling/divine/elemental/dark/healing(cure and curaga)/enhancing(regen, protect, shell) magic spells at the minimum level that any other job can learn it.

You forgot to mention that Light Spirit gets Banish IV BEFORE WHM or PLD get it.

[Rakshaka]

Not always. If the avatar has just a little bit more hate than you, it will obey your command. But if you pull hate from the avatar (usually this happens when you retreat an avatar who's first hit was really a miss) then the avatar will attack the mob to establish hate away from you. This feature is one of the SMN's main abilities and also allows the use of "Carby kiting."

Just let the avatar get a hit in before retreating, or retreat the avatar from a larger distance. Be aware, though, that some mobs have a higher enmity loss than others, meaning that you can shed a lot more hate from being hit on those types of mobs. So you might have to wait for the avatar to hit the mob 2-3 times before being able to retreat it to a safer distance.

I'm familiar with carbie kiting, and avatars natural aggression towards anything that's engaging the summoner. I'm familiar with how to kite a monster using minimal hate (i.e. even if your avatar misses they'll still pull hate), and various other tactics using avatar enmity. I'll clarify this situation even more.
My avatar is fighting a monster. It has hit the monster several times. I'm nowhere close to pulling hate from the avatar. The monster is not severely damaging my avatar (my avatar isn't shedding hate quickly). I command the avatar to retreat (the range at which I tell the avatar to retreat could be anywhere from right next to it, to out of aggro range of the monster, I've experienced this glitch in a range of distances). The avatar comes towards me for about half a second, then turns around and reengages the monster. No matter how many times I perform the retreat command it keeps doing the same thing. During this entire time, I never pull hate from the monster. The monster never moves.

[Rakshaka]

You forgot to mention that Light Spirit gets Banish IV BEFORE WHM or PLD get it.

Good point, I'll note that in the OP

[Papesse]

You can add those :

Diabolos loses all his TP with any Blood Pact used (even Ward) when his only TP based BP is Night Terror.

Shiva's Sleepga should overwrite tier-1 sleep and have his range extended (along with Slowga, Nightmare, Thunderspark, Lunar Roar...)

"Spirit damage" (aka Atonement, Chi Blast, Spirits Within, Nether Blast and especially Zantetsuken) shouldn't be nerfed that much on news NMs.

[Korpg]

I'm familiar with carbie kiting, and avatars natural aggression towards anything that's engaging the summoner. I'm familiar with how to kite a monster using minimal hate (i.e. even if your avatar misses they'll still pull hate), and various other tactics using avatar enmity. I'll clarify this situation even more.
My avatar is fighting a monster. It has hit the monster several times. I'm nowhere close to pulling hate from the avatar. The monster is not severely damaging my avatar (my avatar isn't shedding hate quickly). I command the avatar to retreat (the range at which I tell the avatar to retreat could be anywhere from right next to it, to out of aggro range of the monster, I've experienced this glitch in a range of distances). The avatar comes towards me for about half a second, then turns around and reengages the monster. No matter how many times I perform the retreat command it keeps doing the same thing. During this entire time, I never pull hate from the monster. The monster never moves.

Which monster does this happen? Or does this happen to all monsters? Because this similar situation has happened to me once before, and that was Climatic Hornet after Frenzy Pollen.

[Arciel]

Pets can glitch and ignore retreat commands. They will retreat for one second and then resume hitting the target, even if the target is attacking the pet and not the summoner

I've seen this occur before, and I think I'd attribute it to the unique hate properties of Retreat, which according to Kaeko is -10 CE. I believe the avatar glitches depending on the current CE of the SMN at the time of use. Also, considering this occurs rather often on fresh mobs, my guess is if the SMNs existing CE is less than a certain level, then it will glitch.

Like, I don't really remember having Retreat glitch on me when I'm fighting mobs which I know I've pulled solid hate against, late into the battle (not auto-attack kind). Then again, its not something you use frequently.

[Arciel]

Which monster does this happen? Or does this happen to all monsters? Because this similar situation has happened to me once before, and that was Climatic Hornet after Frenzy Pollen.

Frenzy Pollen comes with current target hate reset on Chasmic Hornet, so if hate was on avatar before it was used, then you'd get main hate, which would explain auto-attack kicking in.

[Arciel]

You can add those :

Diabolos loses all his TP with any Blood Pact used (even Ward) when his only TP based BP is Night Terror.



Even Camisado? The TP loss thing is kinda to be expected for many of his BPS cos they are magic based and deal damage.
Somnolence and Nether Blast for eg. The other wards tho, would be the ones in question.

also sorry for 3 post spam

[Papesse]

Yes, even Camisado.

[Malamasala]

I've had the constant re-defend issue with carby pulling myself, but I don't do it so often that I can actually claim what the issue was. One can just say that I pulled, I believe, an undead dog in KRT, and later ended up unable to recall my carby because he stopped listening.

In addition, it happened once, but I'd like to believe I pulled dogs more than once that night. But it was a long time ago so it could be that level 75 SMNs just can't pull undead dogs in KRT.

As for general Summoner issues:

- Assaulting a spirit sets their timer to max recast.
- Retreating a spirit sets their timer to half max recast.
- A spirit can be interrupted by as weak attacks as a 35 crit punch.
- A spirit will re-apply shock, burn etc. even if the monster has it already, because it has -stats that shrink with time.
- Ifrit's 75 BP is the only BP that is elemental based and does LESS damage if the mob isn't taking double damage from fire.
- Ramuh's Stun moves takes as long as the longest TP move from a monster, so they can never be used to stun TP moves. (Also includes Titan)
- Wards in general do not scale with level. (a very few do)
- Blood Pact timer down has a cap far worse than haste cap, which makes no sense for balance
- Our armor selection is among the worst out of all classes.

And that will do for tonight.

[Rakshaka]

You can add those :

Diabolos loses all his TP with any Blood Pact used (even Ward) when his only TP based BP is Night Terror.

Shiva's Sleepga should overwrite tier-1 sleep and have his range extended (along with Slowga, Nightmare, Thunderspark, Lunar Roar...)

"Spirit damage" (aka Atonement, Chi Blast, Spirits Within, Nether Blast and especially Zantetsuken) shouldn't be nerfed that much on news NMs.

The range on the aoe bloodpacts is the same as ~ga spell range. I don't think that's an issue at this point.

[Rakshaka]

I've had the constant re-defend issue with carby pulling myself, but I don't do it so often that I can actually claim what the issue was. One can just say that I pulled, I believe, an undead dog in KRT, and later ended up unable to recall my carby because he stopped listening.

In addition, it happened once, but I'd like to believe I pulled dogs more than once that night. But it was a long time ago so it could be that level 75 SMNs just can't pull undead dogs in KRT.

As for general Summoner issues:

- Assaulting a spirit sets their timer to max recast.
- Retreating a spirit sets their timer to half max recast.
- A spirit can be interrupted by as weak attacks as a 35 crit punch.
- A spirit will re-apply shock, burn etc. even if the monster has it already, because it has -stats that shrink with time.
- Ifrit's 75 BP is the only BP that is elemental based and does LESS damage if the mob isn't taking double damage from fire.
- Ramuh's Stun moves takes as long as the longest TP move from a monster, so they can never be used to stun TP moves. (Also includes Titan)
- Wards in general do not scale with level. (a very few do)
- Blood Pact timer down has a cap far worse than haste cap, which makes no sense for balance
- Our armor selection is among the worst out of all classes.

And that will do for tonight.

I thought one of the strikes in Flaming Crush was a fire elemental attack. This can be seen by noting the TP gained from the BP. The BP never gives more than 2 hits worth of TP. That reminds me of another issue, avatars get full TP from every single hit of a multihit BP. This had been rectified for players years ago, but was never applied to avatars.

Regarding the stun BPs, I don't think it's an issue for a couple of reasons. Every BP has the same activation delay; I've accepted that delay as the norm... although maybe it's an issue. The second reason would be that the stun duration is much longer than a typical stun spell. Sometimes that can make up for the lack of speed in the stun.

Could you provide more information on how you determined that retreat set the cooldown timer to half of the maximum time? I always thought it reset it to the maximum recast time; but I could be wrong, and I'm willing to test this to be sure.

[Papesse]

The range on the aoe bloodpacts is the same as ~ga spell range. I don't think that's an issue at this point.

Sadly no, only Tidal Roar, Diamand Storm and Astral Flow Blood Pacts have the same range as -ga spells.

[Razushu]

- A spirit will re-apply shock, burn etc. even if the monster has it already, because it has -stats that shrink with time.

Spirits do seem to suffer some sort of abject terror at the possiblity of shock etc. wearing off, it can get pretty hilarious sometimes:D


- Ifrit's 75 BP is the only BP that is elemental based and does LESS damage if the mob isn't taking double damage from fire.

I've never noticed Ifrit being weaker than the other 4 Avatars that trail behind Garuda with him, I'd say they all need a damage tweak so we can start picking an Avatar for DD based on perference.


- Ramuh's Stun moves takes as long as the longest TP move from a monster, so they can never be used to stun TP moves. (Also includes Titan)

Blood Pacts all have this delay, it's what enables us to macro in both BP delay - and gear that enhances the actual Pact, I find myself able to stun enough mob TP moves to find this noot an issue(duo'ed Teekesselchen with a SMN friend and we pretty much managed to stun all the -agas)


- Wards in general do not scale with level. (a very few do)

This is one of the more painful facts of SMN lol, heres hoping for an update soon.


- Blood Pact timer down has a cap far worse than haste cap, which makes no sense for balance

This is the single biggest handicap to SMN agree 100% with you here, this needs a big fix(hopefully the new abilty is this fix)


- Our armor selection is among the worst out of all classes.

At 75 our gear selection was attrocious, unless you had a busy shell that did events, but we've been getting a by far increased amount of easily accessible gear that benefits a SMN.

If you're refering to melee gear:

No offense, but of course it's limited we're mages. We're in the exact same boat as all the other backliners looking to melee, no better no worse. Count yourself lucky there are any melee armors for mages at all, and make do with whats available.

[Rakshaka]

Sadly no, only Tidal Roar, Diamand Storm and Astral Flow Blood Pacts have the same range as -ga spells.

I just tested thunderspark, and it has the same aoe radius as a ~ga spell. I'll test the other aoe pacts in the next couple of days.

[Papesse]

Thunderspark has a 6' radius centered on Ramuh. You can indeed hit 2 targets separated by a distance of 12' if you can move Ramuh between them.
Shiva's Sleepga, Nightmare (despite his animation), Slowga and Lunar Roar : 6' radius centered on the target.
Tidal Roar and Diamand Storm : 10' radius centered on the target.
Astral Flow Blood Pacts : 10' radius centered on the avatar.

The range of our Sleepga is nearly two times smaller than the normal Sleepga. We already need to call Shiva and give the order to BP which takes more time than casting a normal Sleepga but the radius is so mediocre that we can't rely on it at all.
Same thing about Slowga, it's a good BP because, from my results it's a 30% Slow independent of the target's MND but the range is just awful.

[Dallas]

Anyone complain yet about melee SMN out-damaging the avatar?

[Korpg]

You know, this thread was doing fine without you Dallas.

[Rakshaka]

Thunderspark has a 6' radius centered on Ramuh. You can indeed hit 2 targets separated by a distance of 12' if you can move Ramuh between them.
Shiva's Sleepga, Nightmare (despite his animation), Slowga and Lunar Roar : 6' radius centered on the target.
Tidal Roar and Diamand Storm : 10' radius centered on the target.
Astral Flow Blood Pacts : 10' radius centered on the avatar.

The range of our Sleepga is nearly two times smaller than the normal Sleepga. We already need to call Shiva and give the order to BP which takes more time than casting a normal Sleepga but the radius is so mediocre that we can't rely on it at all.
Same thing about Slowga, it's a good BP because, from my results it's a 30% Slow independent of the target's MND but the range is just awful.

Thanks for the AOE information. I did some testing today along with my good friend Pixel, and found out that Ultimate Terror behaves the same way as Thunderspark. And although it has the same aoe range, the range to the targeted mob is shorter than Thunderspark's.

[Dallas]

You know, this thread was doing fine without you Dallas.
You posted this? I'm shocked.

[Rakshaka]

Added the issue where Lunar Roar produces no log text for removed status effects.

[Hikura]

At 75 our gear selection was attrocious, unless you had a busy shell that did events, but we've been getting a by far increased amount of easily accessible gear that benefits a SMN.

If you're refering to melee gear:

No offense, but of course it's limited we're mages. We're in the exact same boat as all the other backliners looking to melee, no better no worse. Count yourself lucky there are any melee armors for mages at all, and make do with whats available.

there are often times where a smn is considered melee and not just a back line job so some extra melee gear would be nice. though melee gear would probably take away from perp- gear or BP recast- gear that you might have, so it will probably be a lose lose situation anyway...

[Razushu]

there are often times where a smn is considered melee and not just a back line job so some extra melee gear would be nice. though melee gear would probably take away from perp- gear or BP recast- gear that you might have, so it will probably be a lose lose situation anyway...

We're not considered a melee, any more than BLM, SCH, or BRD are. All the backliners can be geared for melee, not to the level of a real melee but there is gear there if you want it. I do /sigh everytime I see us get a haste or acc piece, and get left off a pet: PDT -%, acc etc. piece.

[Malamasala]

At 75 our gear selection was attrocious, unless you had a busy shell that did events, but we've been getting a by far increased amount of easily accessible gear that benefits a SMN.

If you're refering to melee gear:

No offense, but of course it's limited we're mages. We're in the exact same boat as all the other backliners looking to melee, no better no worse. Count yourself lucky there are any melee armors for mages at all, and make do with whats available.

Mainly referring to our armors always being too situational. We have no armors with -perp -BP timer -enmity +skill +MP +hMP +avatar stat +random job specific boost. The job has 12 slots, and I carry 60 armors. If we just got decent hybrid armors with all important stats, we'd probably do fine with about 20 armors. 30 armors, if you need melee stats also.

[Razushu]

Mainly referring to our armors always being too situational. We have no armors with -perp -BP timer -enmity +skill +MP +hMP +avatar stat +random job specific boost. The job has 12 slots, and I carry 60 armors. If we just got decent hybrid armors with all important stats, we'd probably do fine with about 20 armors. 30 armors, if you need melee stats also.

Oh I get ya. Hybrid armors would be nice and convienent, but I can't see them implementing much in the way of it. FFXI is built on a mountain of situational gear..... and tears. As a SMN in the body slot, I feel that I need/make use of a refresh/idle piece, -perp piece, BP-delay, Physical BP, Magical BP, Siphon and a Ward piece, plus a Cure pot% & +hMP body, granted there is some overlap here. But all in all I carry 5 bodies, which I had to work to get. So SE would most likely feel they need to balance the difficulty of getting a piece that fills more than 2 of these roles against how hard it is to obtain those other pieces. Which in the end may not make it worth the effort.

[Arciel]

You know, this thread was doing fine without you Dallas.

if you're going to speak against him, you should have just gone all the way..

how about this instead? lol



Add Dallas to the list.


..on a completely different note..
whilst we are on the topic of gear selection..

Can anyone harbor a guess as to what value a stat like this brings to SMN?
"Light Elemental Magic Accuracy+10"

because it really appears to be pointless.. kinda like.. Cure magic accuracy on allies.
if you need Light Elemental nukes.. you're still better off using Carby

[Razushu]

if you're going to speak against him, you should have just gone all the way..

how about this instead? lol



..on a completely different note..
whilst we are on the topic of gear selection..

Can anyone harbor a guess as to what value a stat like this brings to SMN?
"Light Elemental Magic Accuracy+10"

because it really appears to be pointless.. kinda like.. Cure magic accuracy on allies.
if you need Light Elemental nukes.. you're still better off using Carby

That's the Augur's Jaseran, as far as I know that's for Light Elemental spells the player casts like Holy, don't think it has anything to do with spirits. Not that I can say for definite I don't have it long enough to have noticed an appreciable difference in my WHM's nukes acc, and say one way or the other for sure.

[Korpg]

Can anyone harbor a guess as to what value a stat like this brings to SMN?
"Light Elemental Magic Accuracy+10"


That would be for BRD and possibly WHM. Mostly BRD (CHR+13 and Light Elemental Magic Accuracy +10 gives Lullabies a huge boost in effectiveness, Requiems a good buff too) and WHM nuking.

[Arciel]

ah right. a little bit of stat reading comprehension fail there.

I guess I'll go back to harping on how the only realistic options that SE is putting in for synergy augments specific to SMN is SMN Magic Skill, something we kinda have an abundance of... and in slots that a SMN doesn't really get to fully utilize it for (main / feet)

The other one is Pet: MDB which isn't that bad.. but not exactly a necessity given that if you're going to pick avatars based on element theres a good chance it'll take near zero damage from said magical attacks due to elemental resistances

Nothing for perp cost? Nothing decent for pet: mab/macc/atk/acc?
(1-3 is a little weak no? compared to other existing options)

[Windwhisper]

I can only agree with the issues Rakshaka mentioned and a few others kindly added. Some of them are major issues and id love to see those fixed. Especially the issue where BP timer gets reset without avatar using Ward when its autoattack target dies. and since recast is 45 sec minimum it really "sucks".

The little love the developers gave the spirits might never get fixed, but id like to see it nevertheless. Ideal option would be to control spirits, but that might be just dream of mine.

The issue wherein an avatar keeps ignoring your retreat command is not unknown by me either but its only a minor issue simply solved by desummoning and resummoning of the avatar.

[Malamasala]

Added the issue where Lunar Roar produces no log text for removed status effects.

I always assumed it did nothing then, considering it is SE and avatars... can't expect them to get anything right is my first thoughts always.

I still have a hard time seeing it reaching 12 in diameter though. I've NEVER hit two monsters unless they actually had overlapping models. Never.

[Rakshaka]

This is minor, but added the issue where the extended magic aggro range because of weather is still present in the protocrystals. This effect of weather was removed from the rest of the game years ago.

[Arciel]

I was under the assumption that the proto-avatars just happened to have very long aggro range because they were special beings..
bosses and NMs do kinda fall into a special category..

[Rakshaka]

Sorry for the lack of updates lately. Updated to include incorrect animation for Elemental Siphon.

[Jerbob]

I am 90% certain that the "pet already out" bug occurs when the Avatar is defeated by a DoT effect.

There's also the issue where you can't tell if buff effects have worn off the Avatar or other party members, only yourself; this is probably a relic of the game's design but it would be really helpful to have this information. Same goes for debuff effects on the mob.

[Won-Ton]

It's a good thread, and thorough. Please, SE, take notice.

Nothing to add atm except that the Light Elementals in sky have these cool electron things spinning around them, why don't we get those?

[Tarage]

I'll add a few. They'll probably be ignored anyway. I have lost faith that any of this will be fixed.

If you use a blood pact while an avatar is engaged with a mob and the mob dies before the blood pact can be preformed, the avatar gets stuck in a 'readying' animation and the timer does not reset. This applies to rage and ward, and all other pet jobs.

Avatars can auto-attack sleeping mobs. There is no justifiable reason for an avatar to ever auto-attack a sleeping mob.

Sadly, the 'Avatar does not obey the assault command if too far away' is not fixable. I talked to one of the SE reps at PAX this year and the problem is that each zone is sectioned off into smaller areas for pathfinding, and thus if you are in one zone and your avatar is in another, it will ignore the command. This would be far too difficult to fix, as it would require rewriting the entire pathfinding algorithm, something I have a lot of familiarity with as a game programmer.

There really is no excuse for the other two though. They should be quick fixes.

[Soranika]

Been noticing a weird issue with a few blood pact: wards where it will only show in the chat log that only my avatar and I have received the effect(s) of the buffs but not the party, despite them actually getting them.

[Rakshaka]

Can you confirm that you don't have your filters set such that you only see buffs on yourself?

[Soranika]

No chat filters were active on buffs for myself and my party. Some would show, for the full party, but some others, like Fenrir's buffs, hastega from Garuda, and Crimson Howl from Ifrit didn't. This was pre-buffing before the actual fights with no other status ailments that could negate them. Party members confirmed they did received them.

[Windwhisper]

bumped for obvious reasons

[Firinia]

This probably isn't a big issue, but I've also had occasions where, if I had an avatar out and I was invited to a party, the party would not receive any AoE Ward effects from the avatar unless I released and summoned the avatar again.

[Saiken253]

I have 1 that's not really an issue, but how our pet's Blood Pact: Rages should be: They should be doing x3 the damage they are now. Why? I'll turn your vision to WAR, SAM, DRK, MNK, BLM, BLU, DRG, THF, basically any other job that can do decent~awesome DPS and look at what they can do within a 45second time-frame(48~49 if you include the charge time that comes with actually activating the ability). I.E. it's UTTERLY UNFAIR. Yes, we are just about the closest thing to hateless damage, but at these levels does that even matter at this point? And if everyone else dies and your pet was killed at the same time in the process, it's coming for YOU.

As the tyrannical leader of the SE DEV Team preaches, "BALANCE!"

[Rakshaka]

I was hoping to be able to remove the issue where spirits can't cast tier 5 spells, but I guess they decided not to include that in this update. I did remove the note on storms spells because it seems obvious that they're intended to be SCH specific. Regarding Tarage's info about assaulting and the avatar being too far away, keep in mind that you're able to still retreat your avatar from an extremely long distance, so I don't buy SE's explanation about not being able to fix the assault issue.

[Silvra]

1. I feel the loss of a timer charge for our Blood Pacts when the mob dies or if the pet dies when in the middle of performing a Blood pact is a bit rough. At least if the mob moves out of the way it wont use it up.

[Rakshaka]

Removed tier 5 spell issue for spirits

[Rakshaka]

2.5 years later: removed 15 second BP reduction cap

[Byrth]

Nice. The most recent patch to SMN was very useful, although it didn't address any of the listed issues really.


This is perhaps in a different vein than the OP, but there are a few mechanics issues that are problematic for physical BPs that really should be addressed. First I'll explain how the system works in practice:
* Most Physical BPs get their damage by multiplying fTP by base damage and scaling it by pDIF.
* First-hit fTP is very high, while additional attacks have an fTP of 1.
* Modifiers (30% DEX and uncapped fSTR, which is essentially 25% STR) are weak, which ensures low base damage.
* Against difficult targets, the Avatar's Attack / Target's Defense ratio is typically low (like 1 Attack / 2 Defense or something), which makes pDIF choose from a low range, and there are very few ways to affect this.


Now, this system creates three problems:
1) Physical BPs suck against hard enemies, because Avatars have lower base damage against hard enemies (due to fSTR) and their Attack/Defense ratio becomes crap. -- This forces everyone to use magical BPs against hard content.
2) Physical BPs are world-destroying moves against lower level enemies, because Avatars have higher base damage (due to fSTR) and their Attack/Defense ratio is comparatively good. -- This allows Summoner to solo Arch Dynamis Lord.
3) Physical BPs either do great damage (first-hit lands) or terrible damage (first-hit misses). -- This causes Predator Claws to either do thousands of damage or 400.



In order to fix the system:
* Increase Avatar Attack / Base Damage during Blood Pacts.
* Decrease first-hit fTP.

[Byrth]

Okay, Avatar's Favor. This job ability is one of the most complex and unique of any in the game. It's incredibly cool and intricate, but is unfortunately pretty fatally flawed. There are some very potent benefits that can be obtained from it, but its design makes them unreasonable to maintain. Currently it works like this:
* When you use Avatar's Favor, you gain Avatar Perpetuation Cost -2~4 and your Avatar starts emitting an avatar-specific Aura in exchange for an unquantified (probably substantial) Attack penalty, Acc-10, Avatar MAB-20, and potentially other debuffs like Magic Accuracy.
* The potency of the Avatar's Aura starts quite bad, but increases over time (every 10 seconds it increases 1 tier -- 12 tiers or 2 minutes to max it at the moment).
* This Aura potency caps out at a point proportional to your currently Summoning skill. Every 65 skill seems to be a new tier.
* When you use a Blood Pact: Ward, you drop 2 Tiers (20 seconds charge time).
* When you use a Blood Pact: Rage, you drop 5 Tiers (50 seconds charge time).
* If your Avatar dies or is Released, Aura potency is fully reset when you resummon it.
* The Avatar does not gain the benefit of its own Aura.

This system creates a few problems:
1) Summoners cannot use BP: Rage more than every 50 seconds and accumulate Aura potency at all. -- This (and the damage nerfs from Favor) essentially restricts Blood Pact: Rages when the ability is in effect.
2) Avatars frequently die in current content fights due to AoE damage. -- This means that the offensive buffs provided by Ifrit, Ramuh, etc. from Avatar's Favor is not useful in endgame. They do not have time to build an appreciable potency before the avatar is killed.
3) Avatars are frequently unsummoned in current content fights to apply different BP Wards. -- This, combined with the Ward potency reduction of Favor, means that you do not build appreciable potency in a situation where you're swapping between Avatars to buff the party. For instance, if you were maintaining Hastega, Earthen Armor, Inferno Howl, and Crimson Howl, Ifrit would be the only Avatar that got substantial time out, and it is penalized 40 seconds due to its BP: Wards.
4) Avatars are frequently fighting alone in solo content and because they do not gain the benefits of their own favor, there is no reason to use it. -- This kills another potential use of Avatar's Favor in endgame at the moment.


I would:
- Remove the Damage penalties and Avatar Perpetuation Cost reduction from Avatar's Favor.
- Remove the BP: Ward/Rage penalties
- Keep the wind-up mechanism, but allow Avatar's Favor potency to carry over between summons.
- Allow Auras to affect the Aura user. Stop being so god damned lazy, SE. Just create a second type of Aura already.

These changes would make SMN much more versatile and allow it to play a useful role in current content.

[Zeargi]

You can also add on that SMN needs to have it to where we can ALSO assault and keep the effects of invisible like PUP and BST. I have both the other jobs, and there's nothing wrong with them keeping it, but give it to SMN. I'm currently frustrated beyond belief at this stupid Colo. Rieves Bull-S*** and I can't get close enough to the (Insert stupid roadblock) without pulling everything else, and when I'm the only one in them and I'm trying to unlock KIs to help me bypass most of this crap. OR if you won't do that extend the range for assault so SMNs can have a fair chance with stuff like this.

[Rakshaka]

The top page has been updated with the following content:

Fixed bugs (Thank you SE!!!)
- Avatars fail to perform self-targeted blood pacts if their auto-attack target dies

Removed a lot of points that were either currently beneficial, or would
be an undesired change:
- Using the Assault ability with a spirit sets their timer to max recast
- Fire Spirit does not learn Addle
- Earth Spirit does not learn Break
- Light Spirit does not learn Repose
- Light Spirit learns Banish 4 before WHM or PLD.
- Every hit of an avatar's multihit bloodpact will give them full TP for
each hit (9-10% TP).
- Shiva's Sleepga has the potency of Sleepga 2 (1:30), but has the same tier
as Sleep/Sleepga 1. (It can't overwrite Sleep/Sleepga 1). (The reason that
I removed this is because it may be beneficial to have access to a tier 1
sleep vs a tier 2 sleep, depending on who you're playing with, i.e. anyone
with tier 2 sleep.
- Added a note to one issue, indicating that many blood pact wards currently
do not scale past level 75

Removed the spirit assumptions section:
Spirit spell access has been very random with light spirit getting banish 4, but not any regen past regen 1. Because of this, I won't assume that spirit spell access follows any certain rules. Here's the old section for record keeping:
Spirit Assumptions:
The spirit comments listed here are all assuming that the old rules of spirit spells still apply:
Spirits don't gain access to self-buff spells (stoneskin, aquaveil, enspells, etc)
Spirits don't gain access to elemental aoe spells
Spirits don't gain access to merited spells
Spirits do gain access to enfeebling/divine/elemental/dark/healing(cure and curaga)/enhancing(regen, protect, shell) magic spells at the minimum level that any other job can learn it.

Added a section for graphical glitches:
This applies to both spirits and avatars.

Added the following issues:
- Pavor Nocturnus uses the same animation as the Death spell.
- Fenrir's right eye is not modeled correctly. Compare the right eye with the left eye while looking at him from the front. Beneath the right eye, the model goes into fenrir's body, instead of creating the red area underneath the eye that exists under the left eye.
- Ramuh's Thunderstorm animation has two parts, the vertical lightning, and the glowing circles on the ground. The vertical lightning rotates clockwise, while the glowing circles that should be aligned with the vertical lightning rotate counter clockwise. The rotation direction of either the columns or the circles is inverted.
- Ramuh's Judgment Bolt animation has four parts, the inner vertical lightning, the outer vertical lightning, the inner glowing circles on the ground, and the outer glowing circles on the ground.The inner vertical lightning rotates clockwise, and the outer lightning rotates counter clockwise. However, the inner circles rotate counter clockwise, and the outer circles rotate clockwise, which is the opposite direction of their corresponding vertical lightning columns. Again, the rotation direction of either the columns or the circles is inverted.
- Puppetmasters and beastmasters are able to command their pet to attack without losing the invisible status effect. When summoners use assault, their invisible status effect wears off. Please let summoners use assault without losing the effect of invisible.

I did not add anything for Avatar's Favor, as this should be rectified soon
(Thank you SE!!!!).

I didn't add any notes about increasing fTP for physical pacts, because physical pacts don't use TP. Also, these days, the physical pacts are doing more damage to high-level monsters than magical pacts are (by magical pacts im referring to merit pacts; flaming crush still does great damage depending on the target).

[Rakshaka]

Removed the following issue (thanks devs!):
Diabolos loses all his TP with any Blood Pact used (even Ward) when his only TP based BP is Night Terror (* and Nether Blast).

[Byrth]

Apparently Avatar's Favor's potency was not actually affected by the patch either, so you might consider revising your decision to not request more changes with that.

Issue:
* Using Apogee circumvents normal enmity mechanics. So using Apogee -> BP on an enemy won't aggro it until the BP lands.

[Jerbob]

I'm a little confused about the Avatar's Favour adjustment. Blood Pact use now increases favour potency rather than reducing it, but in order to use those blood pacts most effectively (delay down >> potency up gear) we have to dip below the 512 skill tier needed for maximum potency favour, which reduces our favour potency. Presumably the blood pact going off then subsequently increases the potency, but as our skill isn't above the 512 skill tier when the blood pact goes off, it presumably doesn't recap us again when we swap our skill gear back in.

So we're stuck with either Blood Pact use reducing favour potency (as we swap out skill gear), or Avatar's Favour reducing BP potency (as we don't swap in delay/potency gear).

Am I missing something, or are we right back where we started?

[Crevox]

Issue:
* Using Apogee circumvents normal enmity mechanics. So using Apogee -> BP on an enemy won't aggro it until the BP lands.

They fixed this with the patch.

[Rakshaka]

Added the following issues:

The following bullet point of [dev 1239] was not implemented. Avatar's Favor saw no increase in potency. Both the initial and final values of Avatar's Favor were checked after the update; these values matched the values of Avatar's Favor prior to the update.
"The effects of Avatar’s Favor will be increased."

Light spirit does not learn Curaga 5.

[Rakshaka]

Added the following issue:

Zodiac Ring does not affect Elemental Siphon when used with Light Spirit on Lightsday, or Dark Spirit on Darksday.

[Ophannus]

Zodiac ring only works for 6 elements earth fire wind etc excluding light/dark, this is old news since the ring came out.

[Rakshaka]

My assumption is that whoever coded this ring didn't realize there were elemental dark and light (noctohelix and luminohelix) spells when the ring was created, and therefore only applied the buff to the other 6 elements. Ideally this issue would be fixed at some point for everything that it affects (elemental spells and evidently elemental siphon) but for the purpose of this thread, I'm only concerned with the devs fixing the inconsistent behavior of this ring for elemental siphon.