Voidwatch Drop Rates/Loot Distribution

[Kuraudo]

My linkshell has been doing Voidwatch for a while now and so far the drop rates we've seen are horrible. What's the point of triggering the NM's weakness and obtaining max alignment with 18 people if we keep getting petrified logs most of the time?

In Abyssea you get control of your drops when you proc that nice blue !!! weakness and the majority of the time you get the drop you want. For Voidwatch it's the same thing. You have control of your drop rates by procing certain alignments. The only difference with this system is you don't get treated with the same drop rates. Why are we going backwards and not forward? These drop rates make Sea Torques look good.

Not only are we treated with horrible drop rates, but we get one of the worst item distribution systems in the game. It seriously is horrible. Tonight we did Celaeno 9 times and not one of our BRDs obtained a Langeleik (Harp). Wanna know who got a Langeleik? All the damage dealers got them. I can't tell you how angry I would be if one of my members who has already obtained a Anhur Robe/Fazheluo Radiant Mail/Mextli Harness got one of those again! :mad: We should be allowed to trade these items to our alliance members so they go to the proper person and don't go to waste.

I'm sure the majority of the players who participate in Voidwatch can agree that the drop rates and loot distribution system are terrible.

Developers, I beg you… please consider changing this. If this is the new endgame then make the rewards plentiful and the loot distribution smart instead of complete and utter garbage. (Also, why did we get Abyssea seals in our loot pool? We don't need anymore of that. Let that stay in Abyssea please!)

[starfxcker000]

It's very infuriating seeing these pieces go to people who can't use them, or even worse, to mules. I would be happy if we could at least decide who gets the piece, that way the proper people are getting geared. Look at Salvage... The drop rate sucked for how long? But when that shiny 35 appeared in the pool, you bet your ass it was going to someone who could use it. Something needs to be done about this.

And why the hell are we getting seals in the chests now? If I wanted seals, I'd go to Abyssea. If you can't get seals from Abyssea for whatever silly reason, I highly doubt you have the means to do Voidwatch.

[Arylias]

Come on SE, it is a slap in the face when you take 20+ minutes to proc full alignments, then get the shaft, every time, for 5+ hours straight.

We aren't asking for 75-90% drop rates like Abyssea, but come on, it's less and a 1% drop rate on the bodies off the tier IVs. With full lights it should be at least a 5% drop rate, so that more than 1 person can get a drop per 7 hours. I understand you don't want us finishing end-game in a day like in Abyssea, but seriously, this is ridiculous.

Also, what's the deal with sphere effects not working on yourself?

[ThaiChi]

I agree with this, this event is very interesting to me, but all in all, frustrating -- especially when we work really hard on these NMs which are not easily held because of AoE standard attacks, Weakness inflicting special attacks, Encumberment infliction, debuffs that cannot be removed, Tier 4 High element AoE spells and -jas.

These admittedly provide a very big challenge to our LS and that in itself is enjoyable, but oftentimes we're holding the our Tier 4 Voidwatch NM for nearly 30 minutes trying to use the proper weaponskill, reload our blue magic, land appropriate enfeebles and (hopefully) doing everything right and what we're supposed to be doing for this battle system, yet at the end of the fight we are rewarded with craft items we just give to an NPC for gil anyway. It seems like giving us this weakness targetting system has revolutionized the way we play FFXI, but in this, control of the treasure has been taken out of our hands again and just given all to chance.

I got an Irrwisch Ring without trading any cells, and just from quickly killing the NM that dropped it. It didn't feel any different than getting my Strendu ring with full spectral alightment and a full proper battle. I have a fellow LS member, who may very well be posting in this thread, that has gotten around 7 Strendu Rings -- maybe even more. Its pretty upsetting seeing that someone who needs that not be able to get it but someone who has one (or two or three or seven) have to drop one to the floor.

[DAngel]

I concur. That is all.

[Runespider]

It's very infuriating seeing these pieces go to people who can't use them, or even worse, to mules. I would be happy if we could at least decide who gets the piece, that way the proper people are getting geared. Look at Salvage... The drop rate sucked for how long? But when that shiny 35 appeared in the pool, you bet your ass it was going to someone who could use it. Something needs to be done about this.

Guessing the dev team took offence to all the people selling drops RMT style, the method they chose to try counter it was terrible though.

[Quartett]

I couldn't agree more with what have been said about voidwatch. When viodwatch first came out, it's fresh and interesting to most of my LS-mates including myself. But after a while, especially when the whole LS spending an entire week doing nothing but viodwatch and seeing the drop rate been so bad and random, it's very discourage.

Every time when we ran voidwatch we always tried our best to proc the full spectral alignments, all we seen were logs.. gems.... random crafting items..... and more logs. But when the gears finally dropped, it either went to a person who doesn't has the job that can wear it or someone's mule.

I can understand that SE wants all the participant to has some form of reward, but with the way it's drop system works now, it's just frustrating and discouraging. And lastly, please consider remove the seals that might be taking up the possible gears or items spaces that drops from the chest. What's the point of putting random seals in voidwatch? If we need seals we can low-man them from abyssea, there's no reason and point of dragging more than 15 players just so we can get some random seals from voidwatch.

[Mr_Agnol]

I have just finished reading the first few posts in this thread and I am sad to say that I too share the same exact sentiments as my fellow adventurers. It is truly disheartening to attend a linkshell event, that lasts more than 5 hours, to only finish said event with only a single body having dropped to a linkshell member.

Tonight i decided to not trade any of my cells to the planar rift in any of the 9 fights that my linkshell and I participated in and I received one of the tougher items to get. My linkshell and I achieved full lights in just about every fight yet we only saw one body armor tonight. With 18 people in a full alliance doing the tier 4 nm 9 times each, that means that the treasure chest was opened 162 times with only 1 person receiving the item that everyone wants. Would someone please tell me how these odds are fair? I would really appreciate some feedback on this.

I know that the Voidwatch system has been somewhat tweaked from its original inception to allow for more items to be dropped and this is noticeable to an extent. I think the Voidwatch system now needs a total overhaul. For Voidwatch to be called the new "endgame" it is truly sad. I love ffxi and i enjoy spending time with my friends and having fun and getting new gear for everyone but we aren't having fun anymore and we definitely aren't getting new gear. If nobody is able to receive gear from Voidwatch part 1 then what is the point of introducing Voidwatch part 2?

My linkshell has done everything there is in this game and then some. When Voidwatch first appeared it seemed fresh and new and very bold and also exciting, until we realized that we weren't getting any items. Most of the items that we do find in our treasure chests are items that we no longer need. The fact that we are finding random Abyssea seals without a predetermined job is just hurtful. Voidwatch isn't a cakewalk and by no means are the tier 4 nms pushovers. If you still need seals for your jobs then you don't need to do Voidwatch, you should be finishing Abyssea. My linkshell does Voidwatch to get items that are Voidwatch specific. Seals should stay in Abyssea, that is where they belong.

I beg of you dev. team, please fix the issues with Voidwatch part1 before you tease us and waste my time as well as my linkshell's time by showing us gear and items that we will never EVER receive.

[Brehn]

So, Voidwatch......... How many Strendu Rings do you need?! Right now I think I've gotten enough rings for each finger, toe and well lets just say everywhere else you can put a ring.

Not being able to distribute unwanted loot into a common treasure pool (alla abyssea gold chests - thanks for that one) takes this event from being fun and a wee bit challenging, to down right frustrating at watching the other people in your alliance get the same rare/ex item (the one you're dying to have) over and over again while you're left with a green rock, or worse yet, an AF3 seal you could have solo'd in about 1/4 of the time (as if anyone who can actually do VW can't manage an abyssea seal NM lol) And god forbid you covert one of the bodies - you have more luck of winning the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same day~

I'm all for drops being rare and hard to get, but not like this. Initially I was excited that the dev team was revamping the drop system, until I realized that revamping simply meant adding AF3 seals. Seriously, people complain that they are to hard to get, so they are added into Voidwatch? I could see the humor in that if they were additional to the pool instead of replacing the junk that you NPC for at least a little somethin' somethin' at the end of the night lol.

That other LS's are posting drop rates of 3-4 bodies per run further proves how random and thus fundamentally flawed the drop system is in Voidwatch. There is no reward for the effort put in. Why spend time refining the proc system if at the end of the day it actually means nothing, because drop are 100% random?

Right now, our LS averages one body every ten or so fights (if you do that math on that that's 1/180 treasure pools which is more than a little ridiculous) but even then we could stomach it if we could see that the body went to someone that could actually use it. Hell, even equip it would be a major plus.

This really needs to be fixed.

[Bigboy]

I've been participating in Voidwatch since it was added to the game and while there have been minor improvements, such as seeing who procc'd what, and making Treasure Hunter do something, the whole system is fundamentally flawed. We've all been trained to believe that triggering a monsters weaknesses leads to a favorable result. Maybe not everything we want, but something is guaranteed. Now we've been given a system that is a little more intricate and requires alot more work, only to have it spit logs in our face all night. Personally, if the goal was for Voidwatch to replace all forms of HELM, then it has done a great job! Mission accomplished! There is no way a group of 18 people could mine and harvest as much stuff as we get in 30 minutes.

Unfortunately, I don't think this was really a requested addition to the game. I would prefer a similar styled battle system with gear rewards instead of crafting supplies. On occasion, someone gets a piece of gear out of their crafting box, and that is always nice, but I think just having the gear drop into the pool to be divvied amongst the group would be more appropriate. It sucks when you are really looking forward to that darksteel ingot and get another Strendu ring you can't hold instead. That spot in the chest could have been something I could sell!

In short, please just put my crafting items in the chest, and don't let the gear take up that spot. It can go in the treasure pool for some other shmuk.

[Lushipur]

assault point system is the answer.
let us collect point which are used to buy those r/e item.
even doing 20-30 fight for an item is fine as long i can choose the item i really want.

[Mordanthos]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

[Arylias]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

Oh yeah, let's address this problem later when it becomes a problem, instead of now before it does. Makes total sense.

[Brehn]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

So +3% crit hit rate for the DD party or an extra 5 MAB bonus for mage party is garbage then amirite? Sure its a minimal (and i stress minimal) sacrifice but the benefits the rest of the party gets is well worth it.

[Lushipur]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

bard harp want to have a private chat with you :P

[Dfoley]

It is all side grade at best. Even the bard hard is just for people without g horn.

And yes +3% Crit rate for the rest of your party is crap... if it included you, then it would be decent.

[Sparthos]

assault point system is the answer.
let us collect point which are used to buy those r/e item.
even doing 20-30 fight for an item is fine as long i can choose the item i really want.

Bold, underline and blow this up to 48pt font because this guy is absolutely correct.

If each path had points awarded when you defeat a mob in addition to the standard box drops, you'd have a much more rewarding and unified system.

Right now, the mobs have an underwhelming amount of loot in the same vein as the VNM system which was a disaster. It's fine for the T1s to drop "garbage" but stuff like Krabimanjaro dropping only 2 pieces of loot? Cmon.

Buff the lootpools.

[Malamasala]

I still think the ONLY worthwhile system is:

Points
+
Choose your augment

So basically the more you fight, the more armors you get with the stats you want. It is a win-win-win system. Not surprisingly the system does not exist in FFXI.

[Manque]

I realize the dev's have already responded to this idea of altering the way things are dropped (by saying no and refusing a loot pool system Thread Here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9751-dev1007-Voidwatch-Obtaining-Spoils?highlight=voidwatch)), but I strongly think this has to be looked into again. Not necessarily the existence of a loot pool, but the spoils themselves.

"Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation. "

Problems I see:

1. Gold beastcoins and such are all well and good, but they aren't very special. Lackluster 'compensation'.
2. The same item falling to the same player is ludicrous. I have received 5+ Ganesha's Masks for example.
3. Proc'ing and not procing doesn't seem to make a difference sometimes. This was mentioned above.
4. Having seals drop here is silly. If this new content was meant to be a side to Abyssea, why is it so exclusively linked? The difficulty of getting seals and voidwatch are not compatible. If you want seals, go to Abyssea.

Pro's:

1. Cruor teleports to get to the site of the battles.
2. New monster moves are fun and challenging sometimes.


Anyone want one of my Ganesha's? Oh wait...

[Taint2]

I realize the dev's have already responded to this idea of altering the way things are dropped (by saying no and refusing a loot pool system Thread Here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9751-dev1007-Voidwatch-Obtaining-Spoils?highlight=voidwatch)), but I strongly think this has to be looked into again. Not necessarily the existence of a loot pool, but the spoils themselves.

"Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation. "

Problems I see:

1. Gold beastcoins and such are all well and good, but they aren't very special. Lackluster 'compensation'.
2. The same item falling to the same player is ludicrous. I have received 5+ Ganesha's Masks for example.
3. Proc'ing and not procing doesn't seem to make a difference sometimes. This was mentioned above.
4. Having seals drop here is silly. If this new content was meant to be a side to Abyssea, why is it so exclusively linked? The difficulty of getting seals and voidwatch are not compatible. If you want seals, go to Abyssea.

Pro's:

1. Cruor teleports to get to the site of the battles.
2. New monster moves are fun and challenging sometimes.


Anyone want one of my Ganesha's? Oh wait...


This x100

My WHM mule has 3/3 drops from hahava (mask,mala,harness) and ring from voidwrought.
We've had one person get 2 Mala's now.

There need to allow treasure to be pooled if the individual desires.

[ThaiChi]

Since the Devs have already shot down the idea of changing the loot system as stated in that previous thread, I'll address the idea of wanting VW to be more like assaults. Why in the world would I want to do more assaults? Not only has it been done, but the whole idea was to introduce NEW content, not rehashed content that would take you weeks of grinding points to do.


It is all side grade at best. Even the bard hard is just for people without g horn.

Last I checked Ghorn hasn't reached Kannagi status. There's a reason why a lot of the gear that is sellable on the AH is going for upwards of a mil. Pipilaka Belt, Rancor Collar, Accursed Belt (why?!) are all rare drops that people want. Before it was adjusted, the craft items for the non r/ex versions of the body and the helms sold for a lot. Now they're dirt cheap, but the bodies are still selling for a lot. That's all great for the people are rolling in gil and don't want to put in the work for a sparkly body, but for those of us who actually are doing the content SE wants us to do, its a pretty huge chicken obstruction not getting any rewards or getting any kind of control of the rewards.

Who cares if people think they're sidegrades, it was put in the game to be desired and worked towards, its introducing a new stat that is party friendly, and lets face it, they actually are great pieces of gear for the body.

[Dfoley]

Who cares if people think they're sidegrades, it was put in the game to be desired and worked towards, its introducing a new stat that is party friendly, and lets face it, they actually are great pieces of gear for the body.

That is the problem...if was put in the game to be desired...and it isn't desired, then its through fault of the developers.

The fact there are no lines or congestion for VW tells you the gear isn't desired. There is way to much work for little to no reward. Even less reward when you consider that your looking at 80+ kills without the desired item while someones bard alt gets it 3 times in a row.

VW is utter trash at the moment, and until there are decent (read: better then abyssea for the work involved) upgrades, no one is gonna bust butt to get some of that trash. I wanted the deluxe animator cause SE constantly f's pups over with our range slot and 4 more dex seemed nice. That turtle gave me the big F U and guess what, I wont miss not having that 4 dex. I wasted enough of my friends time trying it.


Edit:
Sorry to prove a point
here is the pup/monk useable VW t4 bp

PUP
DEF:59
DEX+10
Accuracy+20
Attack+20
Haste+3%
Reduces "Overload" rate
Set: Attack occ. varies with automaton's HP

mnk
DEF:64
STR+12
VIT+12
Accuracy+15
Attack+15
Augments "Impetus"
Enhances "Martial Arts" effect
Set: Augments "Kick Attacks"


here is the +2 cirque bp
DEF:57
Accuracy+17
Ranged Accuracy+17
Sword skill +7
Katana skill +7
Marksmanship skill +7
Enhances "Dual Wield" effect
Sphere: Critical hit rate +3%
Set: Haste+8%


Please tell me how that is 'a great peace for the body'....not for monk and pup atleast. I would toss it as soon as it dropped...

[ThaiChi]

I actually did overlook the Mextli harness, because I will admit it is, in fact, kind of garbage, although I didn't mention it. Specifically I was looking at the Fazheluo Mail and the Anhur Robe. The mail is a great WS piece for SAM, hands down, especially if you have a Masamune or an Amanomurakamo. And even in comparison to the Twilight Mail, any SAM using a relic or empyrean knows to gear for attack for those respective weaponskills. And as I see it, its an excellent TP body for those jobs that want to use a Goading Belt over a Bullwhip that don't already have a Haste body (Specifically looking at WAR and DRG here).

As for the Anhur Robe, I did mention the fact that they introduced the party friendly Sphere effect which is good for any support job that can wear it. Example: Give a Bard this body and put them in a Black Mage party. Or even better yet, a Summoner (since this has Summoning Skill) and Shiva's Favor and you've got a whole lot of extra MAB for your Black Mages. And I dare you to find another body with 12 Enhancing Magic skill and Fast Cast.

And did you ever consider that there's no lines because there's an actual presentable challenge and you can't PUG a la Abyssea? If there was absolutely no desire for VW gear, why are the sellable pieces going for upwards of a mil? Why are the crafted versions of the body going for 5mil and however much the +1 price is trying to be extorted for? You don't do voidwatch without an established group of trusted players.

[Septimus]

I think what will be even sadder about Voidwatch is if the loot system stays the same (awful) and they put Empyrean Weapon upgrade items in the next round of Voidwatch. "Hey there Mr. "I only level mage jobs", want some Masamune upgrade items? Sure you do!"

[Bigboy]

I think what will be even sadder about Voidwatch is if the loot system stays the same (awful) and they put Empyrean Weapon upgrade items in the next round of Voidwatch. "Hey there Mr. "I only level mage jobs", want some Masamune upgrade items? Sure you do!"
On this note, I was honestly really surprised they went with seals and not +2 items. At least that wouldn't have been AS MUCH of a slap in the face. And the items have much more potential of being useful, because each one can be used to upgrade 5 potential pieces. The whole thing just feels so poorly thought out.

[DarkBass]

I certaninly would love to see the drop rate increased significantly. Since we have to use our own supply of cruor to increase drops, i would like to not have to silently bid on a body piece after dumping 100k in cruor into it. I've wasted enough cells on logs and i seriously would like a chance at a radiant mail, because i swear to god if another person in my shell has to level a job after they get one just to use it, im going to snap. Hard. I don't even like doing voidwatch for my own gain because i feel its a waste of my time personally, but i will always do it to support my shell. I've seen a two people in my shell get a mail, one had to level drg to use, but hardly uses/gets to use drg, the other is a drk, and the body isn't better to tp in than +2 bale body. Spent more time and cruor than i would have liked to get 5 strendu rings and a mantle. The drop rate needs a x12 monk boost.

...wait... you hear that? Thats the sound of everyone opening a chest saying "i got crap. Again."

[Ravenmore]

Since the Devs have already shot down the idea of changing the loot system as stated in that previous thread, I'll address the idea of wanting VW to be more like assaults. Why in the world would I want to do more assaults? Not only has it been done, but the whole idea was to introduce NEW content, not rehashed content that would take you weeks of grinding points to do.



Last I checked Ghorn hasn't reached Kannagi status. There's a reason why a lot of the gear that is sellable on the AH is going for upwards of a mil. Pipilaka Belt, Rancor Collar, Accursed Belt (why?!) are all rare drops that people want. Before it was adjusted, the craft items for the non r/ex versions of the body and the helms sold for a lot. Now they're dirt cheap, but the bodies are still selling for a lot. That's all great for the people are rolling in gil and don't want to put in the work for a sparkly body, but for those of us who actually are doing the content SE wants us to do, its a pretty huge chicken obstruction not getting any rewards or getting any kind of control of the rewards.

Who cares if people think they're sidegrades, it was put in the game to be desired and worked towards, its introducing a new stat that is party friendly, and lets face it, they actually are great pieces of gear for the body.


aGil has lost so much value it sad. One mil is 2 decent exp parties on Dom ops you get notes to off set what you get from cruor. Then you can sell your brews people will pay and will pay over giving up the gear. The whole party friend is pure crap. Angon is the best e.x of this, while doing it at the start of the fight it help the whole xp party few did it and only did it to stroke their own epeen. Then there was DDs that bitch about dia getting reflected or mages that were just to lazy to cast it in the first place.

Ares was the best drg WS body yet you could get a adj off a mob that was kill so many times it was a trash drop and spend a 3rd of the gil to buy the -1 cursed item and it would be close. That is on top of not having to fight everyone in the group for it. Sidegrades are well and good if they are not harder then something else. If the item is truely better then what had came before then it being harder to get, then that is great thats the way it should be.

Really Accursed Belt going for a mil, lol were im at its down to 250k. Thats pretty good if your not the main focus of the mob you take a few points of damage you can hit a macro and get topped off. Rancor collar is only good once you build up enough hate for it plenty of time to work in a couple of abyssea parties sure you could fing a couple of people to cruor farm or join a dom op party.

[Leonlionheart]

I said this somewhere else but I'll place it here.

Instead of having Radiant Mail drop to a WHM who only has mage jobs, why not make the drop like a token where you can turn it in and pick any of the three "Sphere" bodies?

[Zatias]

I still don't get why they didn't give you the option to POOL YOUR REWARD TO THE ALLIANCE.

Must be ps2 limitations.

[Eldelphia]

Allow people to add their loot to the alliance pool and improve the drop rates.

[Manque]

You people need to read the previous dev post. They are not going to add a loot pool option. Brainstorm other ways that they could revamp this system instead of beating that dead horse. Let's get constructive! Let's get the dev's attention. Some other people have mentioned a points system. Any other ideas?

[noodles355]

I'm going to echo the others in saying the option to pool your drops, just like in gold caskets in abyssea would be a good move.

[Taint2]

You people need to read the previous dev post. They are not going to add a loot pool option. Brainstorm other ways that they could revamp this system instead of beating that dead horse. Let's get constructive! Let's get the dev's attention. Some other people have mentioned a points system. Any other ideas?


Sure they said that, but with enough feedback they could change their minds.

Add a add to pool option and a points/reward system and you have a sound endgame activity.

[Defiledsickness]

they could at least make it like Shinryu where if you have an item it doesnt drop again. its annoying hearing the Sam got his 20th Strendu Ring when i havent gotten a single piece of gear. my ls does VW 2 times a week, at least 3times per mob (3-9 kills on ironclad or hahava and normally do both). all i've gotten is a Ganesha's Mask which sucks horribly for Dnc (the only job i can use it on).

adding lot to pool or making all of it tradable/AH'able would definitely be better then how it is now. it makes those who get everything to never want to go again. how the hell are the unlucky 90% suppose to keep going when your ally depended on the whm's or pld's who are sick of potion+1 to keep attending?

(havent had anyone obtain everything yet and i only want strendu ring anyways, but this seems like a huge issue for the 1 of 2 endgame events we have)

[Manque]

To be the devil's advocate:

I for one enjoy the random loot pool generated for each player as it supposedly gives everyone an equal opportunity at receiving a reward. It's nice receiving a piece of gear you really want and not being pressured or obliged to give it to another person. If the option to add things to the loot pool becomes available then this is lost. If an item drops to me and I really want it, but the linkshell decides that another player is more worthy, they will most likely force me to add the item into the lot pool for that player to lot on. I think it's kind of neat that voidwatch prevents this, no matter how greedy it may seem. Players are rewarded for their time instead of their prestige or ranking within the linkshell circle.

Remember I am playing the devil's advocate. I think this is the kind of logic SE was working with when they created the voidwatch system.

However, problems still arise with repeated drops to the same character and things dropping to people who don't need them. Can anyone think of a way to prevent this? Perhaps a point system really is the answer.

I don't know if it's possible, but perhaps the treasure caskets could take a tally of what job each player has leveled and randomly supply loot based on that, even if it's just synth materials. This would only apply for armor/equip. For example, if I was a mage only character with only mage jobs leveled then I would not receive equip with DD jobs on it. Would this prevent unwanted drops? I'm not sure. I think everyone perhaps has a job retired or in the background nowadays that would bugger up this system. So, let's continue to brainstorm.

Maybe you could set your desired 'types' of items at a voidwatch NPC. For example, the armor NPC for Salvage asks you to commit to upgrading a certain type of armor: usu, ares, marduk, or morrigan. I know this doesn't necessarily alter much of anything (or it hasn't been proven), but the option does exist. If SE could tie the options chosen at such an NPC to what appears in chests, wouldn't that be both nifty and convenient? If I choose the 'mextli set' line then I would be eligible only for items which fall under that category from my personal chest while others could choose the 'fazheluo set' if they so wish.
This would add a timesink (which SE would be a fan of) as players would have to progress through each 'set' if they wanted gear from each.

Just some ideas. For those posting and wanting SE to simply add the loot to the pool, would you object to this sort of system.

Also, inb4 ps2 limitations.

[Defiledsickness]

how could your ls force you to give a piece of armor to someone else? they cant even see what you got unless you could put it in a pool. and then you can still just take the armor, its only so if you already got the item you can share.

the thing is many people continuously receive the same armor and no one else gets squat. now if there's some hidden system that's rewarding players for their effort thats one thing. but as far as it seems everyone gets the SAME drop chance. everyone shares light% and Treasure hunter increases. the only way to upgrade your lights is by having everyone work together (there are procs ranging from elemental magic to dragoon breath attacks, to tomahawk from warrior).

so as it stands tons of loot is just dropping to the floor. and none of this armor is NEEDED to do voidwatch or any other event/nm. so your LS being greedy and forcing you to give them the good drops has no bearing. no tank will be saved by this armor and no DD will do 10k ws's because of it. your system doesn't seem something easily implemented into FFXI either. not a horrible idea i just dont see it happening.

[Sparthos]

To be the devil's advocate:

Snip


The solution is a point system. SE seems to be of the mind that if you're able to dump treasure into the lootpool that people will sell the loot for grossly inflated prices and thereby bypass the whole point of personal chests.

If that is the case then the best compromise is a system where you get credits until you can eventually purchase what you want. This is not only the simplest way but also the most fair to all participants.

[DarkBass]

how could your ls force you to give a piece of armor to someone else? they cant even see what you got unless you could put it in a pool. and then you can still just take the armor, its only so if you already got the item you can share.

so as it stands tons of loot is just dropping to the floor. and none of this armor is NEEDED to do voidwatch or any other event/nm. so your LS being greedy and forcing you to give them the good drops has no bearing. no tank will be saved by this armor and no DD will do 10k ws's because of it. your system doesn't seem something easily implemented into FFXI either. not a horrible idea i just dont see it happening.

Yea... its called bidding with points you earn in your ls if you are eligible to wear it, thats how. Welcome to civilied way of working togethersville. If you just take it out of your chest instead of putting it into the proverbial lot pool, you're going to wear it eventually, and it will be found out which would lead to you being kicked, which would be bad unless said person is a hard headed/ full of themselves/ doesnt like their ls for good/bad reasons and wants to leave anyway or a "leech"(inside joke). Plus taking it and never wearing it until you officially win a bid on it is just plain stupid.

[Ravenmore]

Yea... its called bidding with points you earn in your ls if you are eligible to wear it, thats how. Welcome to civilied way of working togethersville. If you just take it out of your chest instead of putting it into the proverbial lot pool, you're going to wear it eventually, and it will be found out which would lead to you being kicked, which would be bad unless said person is a hard headed/ full of themselves/ doesnt like their ls for good/bad reasons and wants to leave anyway or a "leech"(inside joke). Plus taking it and never wearing it until you officially win a bid on it is just plain stupid.

They would have no way to tell if you got it in the LS run or a pick up. Since there is no 3 day cool downs you could had done it off the books. The only reasons LSes had the rule of you can't have other endgame LSes was a)tods b)long cool down times for events that took bodies c)you had no other way to do the content. Though if you could put it into boxs you could just wait a couple days and tell your LS you bought it. Which happen often with kitty pants and w.legs 2 of the 3 good drops from sky that 90% of your ls didn't already have or was hitting the floor.

I still prefer the assult type point system event too like the others said, best way to keep people doing the event. Better then losing your surport for not getting anything they can use while some DD only type gets everything the mages are after.

[DarkBass]

They would have no way to tell if you got it in the LS run or a pick up.

Yea... if the other 17 people involved didnt tell anyone else, shout for members, and then quit... Being sneaky about obtaining things in the gaime come back to bite you. But being sneaky/the need or desire to be sneaky about obtaining items in this manner is eliminated by the voidwatch chest system. Just the drop rates/ getting multiuples of the same r/ex item is what suck. (Phillip Defranco quote) What the f*ck SE dev type people?

[Defiledsickness]

how is taking your reward sneaky? god you have a crappy LS. you must be in one where the leader has 10 empyrean weapons and a sack has 1 and no one else gets squat.

and its hard to sell VW stuff because you cant join the party after the fight has started. and its completely random what may drop.

and as i said; this gear isnt that awesome. if a LS leader would kick you because you took this gear, tell him to get a life. i agree with the point/buy system tho. anything is better then the current system and i really feel bad for pick-up groups doing these fights.

[ThaiChi]

how is taking your reward sneaky? god you have a crappy LS. you must be in one where the leader has 10 empyrean weapons and a sack has 1 and no one else gets squat.


Blindly assume much? I'll have you know almost each and every one of us in our 32 man LS has an empyrean weapon, something we're very proud of. Points in a Linkshell are supposed to be used to denote time put in. And if you actually read what he said, he's referring to the hypothetical situation Ravenmore presented. I would doubt any pick up would be able to make it to tier IV and successfully get a full spectral alignment by today's standard of common player.

We're talking about established groups putting in time into this event and seeing less than a 1% reward among all of our members. It's great that one of our most excellent WHMs got an Anhur Robe recently, but that was 1 out of 160-something chests opened. And we're talking about one person who already has something like a Strendu Ring getting 6 more and not being able to give it to someone else who actually needs it. Most of us actually like the exclusive chests, honestly just a simple fix of not being able to see gear you already own in said chests would make it all that much less insulting for those of us who are participating in VW on a regular basis.

A great way to fix this would be to run a check to see if anyone in your alliance already has whichever item is meant to drop, let's say a Fazheluo R. Mail, then move it to someone else's chest, similar to how things will not drop from mobs if a rare item exists in each party member's inventory. It would work fine even with a low drop rate, because at some point through process of elimination everyone can get a body.

[DarkBass]

how is taking your reward sneaky? god you have a crappy LS. you must be in one where the leader has 10 empyrean weapons and a sack has 1 and no one else gets squat.

and its hard to sell VW stuff because you cant join the party after the fight has started. and its completely random what may drop.

and as i said; this gear isnt that awesome. if a LS leader would kick you because you took this gear, tell him to get a life. i agree with the point/buy system tho. anything is better then the current system and i really feel bad for pick-up groups doing these fights.

OK... wow. YOu forgot what you originaly posted so ill explain it all in full. 1, IF you could put the contents of your chest into the lot pool, there are going to be multiple people who want it/can use it. Gee, how to settle such a conundrum? Oh yea, by bidding on it using the point system you have established among yourselves in said linkshell. The being sneaky part comes in this way. If you could put it into the pool, but you dont, and there are others who can/will use and have more points than you, and you try to cover it up by saying you went with a pick up run, is sneaky. People talk. Being sneaky about stuff gets found out eventually. This would mean you dont care about your fellow members (for reasons good or bad) or the hard work they have put in. You would be removed because you couldnt be trusted. No one wants to bust their ass for something just so someone else who hasn't put in as much work as you can snatch it from up under you. Ninja lotters, and its widely known how to deal with them.

And as far as my linkshell goes, Its a very very good shell. The only people who don't have an empyrean weapon, are the people who joined a few months ago, in which we will be working on soon. Some of us even have 2. Our rules are very fair and the amount of productivity we have is wonderful. Our leader and co-leads are very good people. So no...I have the polar opposite of a crappy LS.

[Khiinroye]

Bad linkshell rules do not make an example to leave the system as it is. A different set of linkshell rules might say that if an item is in your personal chest, the item is yours free of charge, but you can put it in the pool and only then it becomes a biddable item.

What's to stop a linkshell with bad rules from charging points to someone who takes an item out of their personal chest as the system is now? They'll get caught wearing it sooner or later, and then they'll be charged, or they can be sneaky by trying to hide the fact that they got X item in their chest.


If SE wants to prevent selling items to people who don't participate in the fight, they can add a second, public chest, that also requires voidstone usage to access. People could move items from their personal chest to the public chest, and people who qualified for items can access the second chest to get the excess drops.

[Atomic_Skull]

Developers, I beg you… please consider changing this. If this is the new endgame then make the rewards plentiful and the loot distribution smart instead of complete and utter garbage.

Ah but it *is* smart. A variable ratio reward schedule is the most addictive form of operant conditioning.

Basically, FFXI is a Skinner box, you are a rat, killing the mobs is pushing the lever and the drops are food pellets. Starting to get the picture yet?

I know, I know, common sense should tell you that a fixed ratio reward where X work = Y results should work better to keep you playing. Countless experiments show the actual situation to be the opposite. Random, unpredictable infrequent rewards will keep you playing longer. The gambling industry and the entire body of scientific research by B.F. Skinner prove this.

Crappy drops suck for us but for SE it's just good business sense, if somewhat evil.

[Septimus]

Ah but it *is* smart. A variable ratio reward schedule is the most addictive form of operant conditioning.

Basically, FFXI is a Skinner box, you are a rat, killing the mobs is pushing the lever and the drops are food pellets. Starting to get the picture yet?

I know, I know, common sense should tell you that a fixed ratio reward where X work = Y results should work better to keep you playing. Countless experiments show the actual situation to be the opposite. Random, unpredictable infrequent rewards will keep you playing longer. The gambling industry and the entire body of scientific research by B.F. Skinner prove this.

Crappy drops suck for us but for SE it's just good business sense, if somewhat evil.

This is true, until people get sick of it and quit. Look at what happened with CoP with the Jailer system, a large portion of the end-game populace up and left the game in disgust.

[Atomic_Skull]

This is true, until people get sick of it and quit. Look at what happened with CoP with the Jailer system, a large portion of the end-game populace up and left the game in disgust.

That's why Blizzard has a behavioral psychologist on the payroll to design their loot system to be as addictive as possible. You want to make it just cruel enough to addict them but not so cruel that they give up. CoP went way too far in making the rewards infrequent.

[Ravenmore]

Yea... if the other 17 people involved didnt tell anyone else, shout for members, and then quit... Being sneaky about obtaining things in the gaime come back to bite you. But being sneaky/the need or desire to be sneaky about obtaining items in this manner is eliminated by the voidwatch chest system. Just the drop rates/ getting multiuples of the same r/ex item is what suck. (Phillip Defranco quote) What the f*ck SE dev type people?

Still how would your LS ever know what you got in your box. Simple make it were it doesn't say what you take out. LSes though now think outside the box with all the big name LSes done and dead or shadows of thier fomor selfs. Now if your in a LS with people that would force you to give up you loot to all would find they have no members. With out ToDs to protect or pop sets to hold for the LS pick ups are more viable then ever. While most pick ups do suck doesn't mean that it can't be done and with no risk of loss. The game has changed and LSes know this if they want to keep thier members they can't do anything to upset the good ones.

[DarkBass]

Still how would your LS ever know what you got in your box. Simple make it were it doesn't say what you take out. LSes though now think outside the box with all the big name LSes done and dead or shadows of thier fomor selfs. Now if your in a LS with people that would force you to give up you loot to all would find they have no members. With out ToDs to protect or pop sets to hold for the LS pick ups are more viable then ever. While most pick ups do suck doesn't mean that it can't be done and with no risk of loss. The game has changed and LSes know this if they want to keep thier members they can't do anything to upset the good ones.

Because at least a few people pay attention and lying about how you got something gets found out. Also, this "force you to give up your loot to all" misinterpretation is called bidding on said items that go into the lot pool. Person with who bids the most points and can use= winning bidder of item in proverbial pool. But thankfully that whole process is deiscared with the individual reward system. Just getting multiple of the same type of r/ex item is dumb, as well as the incredibly low drop rate itself.

[Ravenmore]

If you don't tell how you got it since you could role with a pick up group. LSes are no longer need to make progress in the game. Yes pick up group can suck, but you know what sucks worest then a bad pick up a bad LS. Retarded rules and a group thats barely better then a pick up. I find LSes like this are the ones with these rules. Still doesn't mean anything how wouldd they find out without you telling them if they make it were it doesn't SHOW in the log. Once rewards get better with VWNM poeple will pug them more. Has your LS ask how you got any of your +2 items, AF3 feet made a big deal out of how you got it? If so you need to dictched right now.

[DarkBass]

If you don't tell how you got it since you could role with a pick up group. LSes are no longer need to make progress in the game. Yes pick up group can suck, but you know what sucks worest then a bad pick up a bad LS. Retarded rules and a group thats barely better then a pick up. I find LSes like this are the ones with these rules. Still doesn't mean anything how wouldd they find out without you telling them if they make it were it doesn't SHOW in the log. Once rewards get better with VWNM poeple will pug them more. Has your LS ask how you got any of your +2 items, AF3 feet made a big deal out of how you got it? If so you need to dictched right now.

Well they will never find out if you never wear it ever. Not once for even a second. Not even in your moghouse. Will never find out then. But if the contents from voidwatch could be added to pool, then things are bidden on. If a body armor drops in your chest and you have to add it to the pool so it can be bid upon, but instead you take it, and wear it, you're eventually gonna have to lie about how you got it. Then eventually it will be found out. Now its all fine well and good if you got it in a pick up run. But if you obtain your items through sneaky means through the ls, there lies the problem. But this is all beside the point of this thread now.

[Asanarama]

Ah but it *is* smart. A variable ratio reward schedule is the most addictive form of operant conditioning.Excellent point. I’m disappointed in myself that I never thought of it. I only took Psych 101, but I found it interesting and remember quite a bit.

I can understand that they want an activity where rewards don’t go to the treasure pool. Out of curiosity, are there any other events where players directly receive items like this? Off the top of my head, I’m only remembering events that reward some type of points directly to players, not actual items. I think a point system for VWNMs would be a good idea. The points don’t have to be static. I think they should be like melee attacks. Your point reward would be random within a certain range, and there’d be a chance to crit and get double points or whatever the psycho-mathematicians come up with. Procs and treasure hunter could influence the minimum and maximum points and the chance of crit points. There could be different points for each VNM or each nation/path. Whatever works. I think they’ll have to change something, because it’s just too disheartening when some people get things they can’t use or already have while others are still waiting for something they want, and that certainly has a psychological impact on people. A point system would eliminate that problem, and it would allow them to make items difficult to get without going overboard on that variable ratio reward schedule.

[DarkBass]

Very true. Also, WoE has indivudual chests and a treasure pool chest, just that the "Top 5" people get their own chests.

[Atomic_Skull]

Excellent point. I’m disappointed in myself that I never thought of it. I only took Psych 101, but I found it interesting and remember quite a bit.

Coming up with ways to keep you playing well past the point where you should have become bored and moved on is a huge field in the video game industry. And most of the methods they employ range from unscrupulous to downright evil.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

This is written as a comedy article but everything presented in it is absolutely true.

[Kimara]

Coming up with ways to keep you playing well past the point where you should have become bored and moved on is a huge field in the video game industry. And most of the methods they employ range from unscrupulous to downright evil.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html




This is written as a comedy article but everything presented in it is absolutely true.

This is a very very interesting read. Make me think of a lot of the things that SE does that got me hooked so long ago XD.

[Ravenmore]

Well they will never find out if you never wear it ever. Not once for even a second. Not even in your moghouse. Will never find out then. But if the contents from voidwatch could be added to pool, then things are bidden on. If a body armor drops in your chest and you have to add it to the pool so it can be bid upon, but instead you take it, and wear it, you're eventually gonna have to lie about how you got it. Then eventually it will be found out. Now its all fine well and good if you got it in a pick up run. But if you obtain your items through sneaky means through the ls, there lies the problem. But this is all beside the point of this thread now.

You still have not said how they would know how you got it, since you had not responded to make it were you choose what you want to add to the pool. The LS as you know it is dead long dead. So as a event can be pug or people are willing to pug I.E not even needing a LS a LS can't do anything to piss off its members. If a player can't find any better of a LS then one like that then its more of a problem with said player then the reward system. They have no way of knowing how you got it. Your LS has no sway over you anymore they are not the only show in town.

[DarkBass]

]You still have not said how they would know how you got it, since you had not responded to make it were you choose what you want to add to the pool.

I did, but ill explain it further.

1.If you get it in a ls run, take it out of your chest, but lie about it, and you are seen with it in a later point in time, Its eventually gonna be found out you lied about getting it in one particular ls run.

2.If you wear anything for longer than like 30 seconds-1 minute, its updated automatically in FFXIAH.com. If someone in your ls sees it, they could mention something, and then the lie is exposed that way.

But that situation could only happen if we had the option to add items to the pool. If you could add items to the pool, i feel it would only be fair if a body you wanted and could wear immediately was in your chest, it should go to you unopposed. But if you are a bard and you get a Radiant F. Mail but you want it for your 35 soon to be 90 war, and you could put it into the pool for bidding for those who can wear it immediately, but instead you lie and say "I got crap" and take it out your chest, That's being sneaky. Because When your war gets of level, and you wear it, and others see it, well you are a smart individual i think you get my point.

[Ravenmore]

I did, but ill explain it further.

1.If you get it in a ls run, take it out of your chest, but lie about it, and you are seen with it in a later point in time, Its eventually gonna be found out you lied about getting it in one particular ls run.

2.If you wear anything for longer than like 30 seconds-1 minute, its updated automatically in FFXIAH.com. If someone in your ls sees it, they could mention something, and then the lie is exposed that way.

But that situation could only happen if we had the option to add items to the pool. If you could add items to the pool, i feel it would only be fair if a body you wanted and could wear immediately was in your chest, it should go to you unopposed. But if you are a bard and you get a Radiant F. Mail but you want it for your 35 soon to be 90 war, and you could put it into the pool for bidding for those who can wear it immediately, but instead you lie and say "I got crap" and take it out your chest, That's being sneaky. Because When your war gets of level, and you wear it, and others see it, well you are a smart individual i think you get my point.

How would they know if it DOESN'T say it in the log. If your 35 war and you take it up latter how would they know you got it on that run or a pug run. There is no way for them to know. No way for them to find out. As so as items are added worth dealing with this event is added pugs will be comeing out the wood work, they are already out there now.

Yes they could do that but do you remember every date of a run. Does it say when it was droped to you or when you first put it on. Franky I refuse to go near that site after the for virus that my anit-virus blocked.

Edit - went and poke around on a non-FFXI pc. Only way they would know s if you linked your char on the linkshell site to the FFAH profile. So again no way to know if you one of the many people that refuse to us eeither site.Still gets no were as it would be up to you the player to decide to offer the items to the rest of the group. Nothing these LSes have over the avg player anymore thats what your failing to see.

[Economizer]

It's very infuriating seeing these pieces go to people who can't use them, or even worse, to mules.

Perhaps part of the game balance is not encouraging people to dual box a character so they don't have to share loot with as many people.

That it is even viable to play a rapidly leveled character remotely as efficiently as someone who is maining the job while you are maining something else shows a problem.

Watching your dual boxed mule get all the loot you want because you can't bother to include someone else is a bit of dev justice in a way, as it punishes the behavior.

Perhaps the system is broken with players having to watch friends who never will use the gear get the drops they want you to get, but this is a positive side effect, given that this game is an MMO, not a play with little people as possible so you can have a monopoly on leet gear massively online game.

-

The other thing that this drop system punishes are point systems that screw over anyone who isn't the LS leader or a good friend of the LS leader.

It is going to be hard enough to "fix" the system to let people get the gear they want without going back to something that SE was obviously trying to avoid, short of a system involving getting some sort of IOU for varying pieces of gear that are still exclusive. Hopefully SE can accomplish its goals while still pleasing the reasonable parts of its playerbase.

[Economizer]

And I'm going to apologize here for the double post, but this one is a gem:


Blindly assume much? I'll have you know almost each and every one of us in our 32 man LS has an empyrean weapon, something we're very proud of.

Congrats. But the majority of endgame LS do not work like that unfortunately. The ones that do already have 32 players in them.


Most of us actually like the exclusive chests, honestly just a simple fix of not being able to see gear you already own in said chests would make it all that much less insulting for those of us who are participating in VW on a regular basis.

This would certainly be one way to do it, but your next suggestion is exactly why I chose to repeat you:


A great way to fix this would be to run a check to see if anyone in your alliance already has whichever item is meant to drop, let's say a Fazheluo R. Mail, then move it to someone else's chest, similar to how things will not drop from mobs if a rare item exists in each party member's inventory. It would work fine even with a low drop rate, because at some point through process of elimination everyone can get a body.

This alone would be terrible, as it would go back to a EGLS point system, which while it might work for your Linkshell, it does not for many people who have to watch as the leader gets everything and they get nothing. People are scared from ELGS BS.

But the way you worded it (it sounds so eloquent somehow) made me think about a suitable solution.

For Rare/Exclusive items, if you already own one, you are able to move it to someone else's chest, perhaps at the cost of a small amount of cruor, or perhaps to a treasure pool for lotting. This way the drop system still fits the role it seems designed for, but has less waste and still works for an LS trying to gear up members to fit certain roles. It also discourages players from just dropping the gear if they can't equip it right away.

[DarkBass]

How would they know if it DOESN'T say it in the log. If your 35 war and you take it up latter how would they know you got it on that run or a pug run. There is no way for them to know. No way for them to find out. As so as items are added worth dealing with this event is added pugs will be comeing out the wood work, they are already out there now.

Yes they could do that but do you remember every date of a run. Does it say when it was droped to you or when you first put it on. Franky I refuse to go near that site after the for virus that my anit-virus blocked.

Edit - went and poke around on a non-FFXI pc. Only way they would know s if you linked your char on the linkshell site to the FFAH profile. So again no way to know if you one of the many people that refuse to us eeither site.Still gets no were as it would be up to you the player to decide to offer the items to the rest of the group. Nothing these LSes have over the avg player anymore thats what your failing to see.

All the examples I've given were how you find out if it doesnt say it in the log, as well as the rest of the "How would they know I took something someone else could wear and i cant" Situation.

[ThaiChi]

@ Economizer

Actually your suggestion is just want I'd meant to say, but in the sense that no player has control over it. The check that I was referring to was akin to how items marked "rare" will not drop off a mob if everyone in a party already has one in their inventory (Two-Leaf Mandragora Buds, while cleaving comes to mind). My suggestion was to have a similar check for party members inventory so that if a player already has one, it can spawn in someone elses chest.

And I'm not trying to repeatedly bring the topic back to how Linkshells are supposed to be run or whatnot, I just had to say my piece to some guy who assumed every leader is self-serving. So there's no reason to be cynical.

Bottom line is: we as a Linkshell actively participate in Voidwatch (as well as any other group who partakes) want some changes to how loot is distributed -- whether it be put in our hands or a function within the game mechanics. Weakness triggering and spectral alignment seemed to have been that way of providing us some measure of control over the quality of drops yet going through the motions currently does not seem to put out a reasonable rate of reward.

Edit: Btw darkbass, your FFXIAH/LS community profile is updated based on what you're wearing while you're logged out of the game, not simply because you're wearing it at any given time.

[DarkBass]

Hmm. thats strange. I could have sworn i saw my stuff change while i was logged in, given it was a loooong time of being logged in >.<

[Manque]

Glad this thread is working its way back on track.

I think the thought of having a rare item not drop to someone who already possesses it is a good one, but i'm not sure if it's compatible with treasure casket distribution.

If you go into a BCNM with a rare/ex item can it still spawn in the chest if you already have it?

Knowing this should help us brainstorm some more.

[DarkBass]

If you go into a bcnm and if everyone has the rare item it drops then no it will not drop, which is the main slap in the face. I could personally deal with the low drop rate as it is now, if i didnt get the same rare items i have now.. I would at least feel like id a shoo in for a body at some point.

[Lushipur]

yes, if everyone have the item it will not drop, BUT no other item will drop in exchange...

[Frost]

Please reconsider adding the option to "Add spoils to Treasure Pool" with the upcoming update. The last thing we need is More armor going to people that can't/won't/will likely not use it...

I implore you devs to play on a production server and actually see what we see. I understand a lot of your ideas and agree they look great on paper; but in actual practice, they just don't work as you'd think they're supposed to. I.E. Having your own treassure Pool is nice, but ending up with stuff you can't use, and worse, can't share, is pretty bad, and exceptionally disheartening.

[Zhronne]

I partially support this whining thread.
I'm not a fan of the "personal chests" system myself for two reasons: a practical one (it kinda defeats LS loot assignment rules like DKP etc) and a psychological one (the fact that someone that doesn't need a certain item gets it and vice-versa).
Still, these two are probably minor aspects and I can deal with it and consider it a "variation" from the rest.

What should be done though is make the lights allignment more relevant. Atm even with max lights the drop rates are too low and too random in my opinion. Compared to what the numbers may suggest (a difference from 0% to almost 400%) the allignment seem to affect the quality of drops much less than it should, imho.

I'm not saying every fully procced Caelano should drop at least 12 armors and 15 Langeleiks, but without getting to such unbalanced extremes, there's still space for a DUE improvment of things.

[Shiyo]

I'm sorry but if SE is afraid of people mercing drops, they are mentally retarded and need to kill themselves. How the hell is that even a problem.............I don't understand that, so I seriously doubt that's why the loot system is HORRIBLY designed.

I will be quitting FFXI if voidwatch stays how it is and it's all the future content it, drops from VW might as well not exist because they are so rare and random. I pretend they aren't even in the game tbh.

I will not play a MMO with such a horribly designed loot system, I would rather quit.

[Leonlionheart]

Scream loud enough and someone will hear you.

SE: Voidwatch drops, even at 95, aren't SOOOO GOOD that they should be as rare as they are.

You through Abyssea at us like it's the future of the game, then you toss us something with drop rates like the initial Salvage. Sure you can spam it, but there are people that are 0/50 on some of these bodies already.

Sure, individual chests might increase the number of the items on the server, but all DD players really can't do anything with an Anhur robe. Might as well give a Lv.1 MNK an Armada Hauberk.

[Runespider]

I will be quitting FFXI if voidwatch stays how it is and it's all the future content it, drops from VW might as well not exist because they are so rare and random. I pretend they aren't even in the game tbh.

I will not play a MMO with such a horribly designed loot system, I would rather quit.

I did serious endgame before Abyssea, drops that took literally years to obtain. 2+ years to finish morrigan body, far longer for all my king drops. At the time this was acceptable to the kind of players that did serious endgame, but now with Abyssea they made endgame open to everyone and everyone will expect to have the same access that was never there before, they just are not going to accept drop rates of the past anymore I think lol Hell even the hardcore won't like going back to the old ways.

So yeah, I think they are trying to make FFXI more long-term again, or someone else is back in charge of the game and they think they can just time warp back to how they used to keep people playing long-term with very little content. It just ain't gonna fly.

With MMO's they either need to add quite regular mass amounts of content with decent drop rates (abyssea) or add far cheaper content less frequently with really amazing drops that are very rare or difficult to obtain. (voidwatch stage 2).

Given they are not going to be adding mass amounts of regular content like they did with Abyssea from now on I think they will go with the very very rare drop system, the whole point of which is that you may never get the drop you want..or that it takes forever.

People are just used to being able to fully gear a job in 1-3 weeks. While in the past being full geared and top tier would take 3-4++ years.

[Tagrineth]

To me the only bad thing about Voidwatch's drops is that, like, if your dedicated WHM gets Fazheluo Radiant Mail...

[Rearden]

One, if you have an LS maybe I'm old school but doing stuff with others just seems eh, wrong? Get a new LS? etc?

Two, I can still sell people gear from a points system, in fact I could probably sell it a whole lot easier. Being able to sell gear is an illegitimate excuse for not being able to put items in the pool. Guess what, Chinese RMT aren't going to be doing Voidwatch, aren't going to be beating Voidwatch, aren't relevant to Voidwatch. The event itself is just a tad harder than bot claiming Faust and fishing Angel skins.

The current system sucks, it offers no incentive to do it without the ability to put the Faz Mail my WHM mule has into the loot pool. If it were a point system, okay, but you guys are asking for a deal with the devil in that system. SE is going to make it just as ridiculous an amount of points as time it takes to randomly obtain the item. People would be a hell of a lot more interested in this event if they knew all of their mules wouldn't get items without even trading cells.

[Runespider]

Two, I can still sell people gear from a points system, in fact I could probably sell it a whole lot easier. Being able to sell gear is an illegitimate excuse for not being able to put items in the pool. Guess what, Chinese RMT aren't going to be doing Voidwatch, aren't going to be beating Voidwatch, aren't relevant to Voidwatch. The event itself is just a tad harder than bot claiming Faust and fishing Angel skins.

You see RMT in it's most basic form, chinese sweatshop workers. Just FYI RMT sold the strongest HNM drops, drops from every event and now sell aby drops. In the past the RMT were teh best/elite players in the biggest best botting HNMLS, now they are normal players with the resources to get the drops to sell to people.

RMT = people that sell gil, not dumbass chinese sweatshops grinders.

So yeah the drops will be sold for rmt purposes if the demand is there.

[Rearden]

Might be why I specified Chinese RMT

[Runespider]

Might be why I specified Chinese RMT

What does their nationality have to do with the point you were making? No matter how hard the content they will be sold for RMT if demand is there and teh drop system favors selling to others.

[Economizer]

To me the only bad thing about Voidwatch's drops is that, like, if your dedicated WHM gets Fazheluo Radiant Mail...

Well, the obvious solution is to put White Mage on that gear. :p

Even more obviously, these drops exist for two reasons:
1) To punish people who bring mules to events.
2) To gear up mannequins.

[Rearden]

Regardless of whether these items are sold or not, it generally takes a linkshell to defeat them, the linkshell will take those items first, at current drop rates those items won't reach a point where everyone that needs it has one and they begin to be sold until the following tier of Voidwatch comes out.

A basement of Chinese RMT or an apartment of fat dudes in Tennessee aren't farming VW for profit.

It has to do with the point because SE is far more concerned about their friends across the ocean than they are with Joe Beer.

[Zhronne]

assault point system is the answer.
It's too late... they can't re-do Voidwatch looting system from scratch, can they? All we can reasonably ask for is small tweaks.

The "currency" system you suggested is really nice though. Works really fine in other games, really really fine, up to the point it makes me wonder why FFXI hasn't made more use of it. As far as I know you can use it only with Assaults, Einherjar... oh and if you want to include them I guess Conquest Points/Imperial Standing/Allied Notes too, I suppose.

[Quetzacoatl]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

This, so much. Who cares about voidwatch when the drops suck to begin with? :|

Square Enix should really provide better ideas for gear as an incentive to participate in phase 1 of voidwatch, if we want to see more action from it. Not even my LS wants to do it because of how disappointing the selection of gear from it is. Not to mention, yeah, drop rates are abysmal to begin with.

[Tagrineth]

Hey, Fazheluo Radiant Mail is a great WS piece.

[Leonlionheart]

Going for the gear is all fine and dandy, but even those chest pieces are complete garbage anyways. Nothing in Voidwatch can replace Aby gear yet at phase 1, so why are you even worried about the drops to begin with. Nothing in it is game breaking in any way. I do it because i like how fricken hard it is, and i find myself getting the gear randomly when im least expecting it.

Actually, the body pieces at 95 are AMAZING... Let me just leave these here...

From BG, who took it from FFXIAH:
Spoiler alert.

[Zhronne]

Actually, the body pieces at 95 are AMAZING... Let me just leave these here...
I'm not particularly overwhelmed by the first, 2nd and 3rd look really nice indeed instead :O
I want that curing body for mah SCH :( Don't think I would fulltime it, but for curing macros (and sskin?) I'd definitely use it for sure, ooooooh if I would :D

[Leonlionheart]

PLD didn't block with shield? Takes ~300 damage in one hit?

BOOM 42 ****ING TP

[Zhronne]

yeah I'm not a PLD but it's freaking awesome lol

[Sparthos]

Your China+2 jobs are wrong it seems if it follows the Fazheluo.

WAR/SAM/DRK/PLD/DRG/BST I assume are the true classes on it?

[Leonlionheart]

Your China+2 jobs are wrong it seems if it follows the Fazheluo.

WAR/SAM/DRK/PLD/DRG/BST I assume are the true classes on it?

edited----

[Humie]

Void watch is in serious danger of being a failure

The fights are fun yet chalenging and in my opinon the must fun event at the moment, yet everybody does events for the drops I have done all the paths 8 times and the tier 4 monsters multiple times with capped lights and I have yet to get a single void watch specific drop.
Acording to wiki drop rates the tier 4 bodies have a drop rate of 0.2% which i can belive, my LS has only had 1 body drop (to some body who cant even use it) and alot of the new equipment comes from void watch.
To atually get a set of the armor to get the set bonuses someone would have to do hundreds of void watch and be very lucky at that which requires 18 people to help you get them.
Unless the drop rate is improved or the tresure system changed people will grow tired of doing void watch for nothing but rubbish you npc.

Please alter the drop rates or loot system I enjoy void watch but most people will just quit doing void watch I am not going to do the same fight hundreds of times and possably still not get what i was after.

[Sparthos]

I'll agree the rates need to be changed or a point system where you can track your progress needs to be conceived.

Even if the piece costs hundreds of thousands, at least you can track it.

[Quetzacoatl]

Spoiler alert.



They're amazing in that every single job on those pieces are on there except STILL NO RED MAGE. I would be hopeful to see it on even ONE of those pieces.

WHY, SQUARE?

[Leonlionheart]

It could be a typo, RDM actually does get Anhur robe.

[Quetzacoatl]

Huh, so it seems >_>;

I can be a forgetful loon sometimes.

Still though, it would be nice to see RDM on mextli harness if they intend to push RDM into a Melee direction.

[Tagrineth]

Huh, so it seems >_>;

I can be a forgetful loon sometimes.

Still though, it would be nice to see RDM on mextli harness if they intend to push RDM into a Melee direction.

...which they blatantly do not intend to do.

[Shiyo]

Huh, so it seems >_>;

I can be a forgetful loon sometimes.

Still though, it would be nice to see RDM on mextli harness if they intend to push RDM into a Melee direction.

You mean push RDM into a role of complete worthlessness and no point? Yeah cool, I'll start playing SCH as my main again.

[Ophannus]

Tonight we did Celaeno 9 times and not one of our BRDs obtained a Langeleik (Harp). Wanna know who got a Langeleik? All the damage dealers got them.
Shoulda came DD.

[Leonlionheart]

I keep telling people who I talk to about this topic in game to come post. They never do.

But hear me SE, I know tons of people who are VERY VERY dissatisfied with this current system; it needs some tweaking.

[Quetzacoatl]

You mean push RDM into a role of complete worthlessness and no point? Yeah cool, I'll start playing SCH as my main again.

So you're playing a worthless job in favor of another worthless job? Cool story, is there a sequel? Oh wait, you play DNC, another worthless job. Man, when are you going to come out with a second sequel!? I can't keep up.

[Nynja]

You can still sell VW drops, but its more of a hassle. Have someone pay you up front, let them into ally, and if they show the item didnt drop, refund em.

I'm aware SE made VW like it is to combat people selling gear (protip, lots of non RMT do it as well), they tried with salvage (instanced event, potential item buyer would have to attend runs since theres no way to wait on the outside without entering), they tried with Einherjar (once you leave the chamber, you lose your treasure pool, so no outside lotters can join up)...and theyre trying with this. IMO its a good effort, since its a LOT harder to sell gear this way, but as I said, not impossible...and the drawback is there is gear that is dropping to people who dont want/have no use for it.

I dont see why SE just didnt go with a points system for T4 NM's if their intention was to combat selling gear. Give all the bosses their own points system, since theyre the only one with r/e loot that people would care for, build up your red/blue lights for the credits, and then let the people who want the item be able to get them. It's already disheartening and very discouraging to go 0/100 on a drop (Salvage was notorious for upsetting people), but to then hear how someones mule has gotten two when they cant even use it really makes people not even want to participate in content.

[Quetzacoatl]

Just one nitpick: You pay after you get your drop, not before you get your drop and get refunded if it doesn't.

[Leonlionheart]

Just one nitpick: You pay after you get your drop, not before you get your drop and get refunded if it doesn't.

That's the best way to screw someone over, don't do that.

[Quetzacoatl]

That's the best way to screw someone over, don't do that.

Really? Because my server has an LS that could easily take your money and warp out even if you don't get a drop without refunding you. Just like before the Dynamis update, if they will team up with you to do Dynamis-Beaucedine win, they'll just come and MPK you with the Dragons instead, as long as they get the dynamis currency they need for their relics.

Hint: it starts with an "E."

[Leonlionheart]

Well not from the LS's point of view. You should always get the gil before you let them lot, etc, even if it doesn't drop.

If a LS screws you over, shout in PJ till someone agrees with you and they won't get anymore business. Bad way to run a merc LS if your ripping people off commonly.

[SpankWustler]

Really? Because my server has an LS that could easily take your money and warp out even if you don't get a drop without refunding you.

Hint: it starts with an "E."

Selling items as a linkshell is the same as selling anything as anything. You make better money from repeat business than from ripping off one or two people. Since it's generally all or nothing when it comes to fleecing someone on FFXI, word-of-mouth travels pretty fast.

I don't doubt it would happen sometimes, but from a business perspective, it doesn't seem like a smart move.

Ripping off a group as an individual, however, has far fewer pitfalls.

[Quetzacoatl]

Well not from the LS's point of view. You should always get the gil before you let them lot, etc, even if it doesn't drop.

If a LS screws you over, shout in PJ till someone agrees with you and they won't get anymore business. Bad way to run a merc LS if your ripping people off commonly.

That would be the normal case with most merc linkshells, yes, I can see that. What if the linkshell was overly powerful and skilled enough to do it just because they can? Would the GMs be able to do anything about it?

If you haven't guessed already, I'm referring to Exodus

[Leonlionheart]

That would be the normal case with most merc linkshells, yes, I can see that. What if the linkshell was overly powerful and skilled enough to do it just because they can? Would the GMs be able to do anything about it?

GM's wouldn't, no. It's in the player's hands.

[Quetzacoatl]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Would GMs do anything about it even if it was brought to their attention by a player? If so, they'd just RMT another character into the LS and keep going. :x

But in either case, what would the purpose of getting the money first before popping provide? It just seems like a trap card for Linkshells that don't always keep their word. You could easily take the gil, pop the NM, get no drop, then just do a mass teleport afterwards looking at it this way.

[Leonlionheart]

Obviously there are some scum, but most merc ls's are worth it.

LosNoobs on Asura comes to mind of a super successful merc ls. Whatever the hell Xeth does too; since he's made like 2 relics in 3 days or some shit