Click & Buy charges "international processing fee"!

[Dulcinea]

SE needs to learn more about their billing partner Click & Buy! I was just charged an "international processing fee" as well as my normal monthly FFXI fee!

[Kimble]

Most likely your bank charged you.

[Alhanelem]

SE needs to learn more about their billing partner Click & Buy! I was just charged an "international processing fee" as well as my normal monthly FFXI fee!
Your bank charged that, not click and buy.

[Malamasala]

The solution is probably to have your bank, pay another bank, who pays another company, to pay to C&B so they can pay SE. It is the amount of middle men that lowers the price of stuff!

[RAIST]

regardless of who charged it.. it is a new cost not incurred before, that is now being thrust on players with no explanation as to why one specific group of peoples (non-JP) have been forced into it.

[Rosina]

it looks more like a tax since it differs between the people. so far seen 11 cents and 39 cents. Nothing to major. I pay more for a candy bar here in mass.

[Kimble]

regardless of who charged it.. it is a new cost not incurred before, that is now being thrust on players with no explanation as to why one specific group of peoples (non-JP) have been forced into it.

Its still your bank.

[RAIST]

Its still your bank. ....charging a fee because you are now forced to use C&B instead of the CC processor SE had been using prior to forcing this down a non-JP player's throat.

Fixed that for you.

[Rosina]

Fixed that for you.

dude... ~.~ really... just wow...

[RAIST]

the point is the charge was filed BECAUSE they used C&B. Regardless if it was C&B themself or not, if they had not been forced to use C&B, no charge would have been assessed.

[Karbuncle]

Dunno why you people keep white-knighting a company who continually puts their foot up your A** while making it clear your opinion means nothing to them.

Raist is right, its a fee that wouldn't be there if not for this ridiculous forced change. 11c or 40c its still something that you should not have to pay.

[Neika]

Dunno why you people keep white-knighting a company who continually puts their foot up your A** while making it clear your opinion means nothing to them.

Raist is right, its a fee that wouldn't be there if not for this ridiculous forced change. 11c or 40c its still something that you should not have to pay.

This. like a gazillion times over.

[Vazerus]

Karbuncle and Raist with the win, as usual xD.

[Kimble]

Lets all quit the game in protest then. Once no one is paying for the game they are sure to make changes. Or end it. Either way, we win!

[Rosina]

You guys are funny, read the user agreement. SE is NOT responsible for your taxes. Which is what this "fee" looks like. Instead of being "tin foil hat" warers or wanna be "tea party" activists, CALMLY inform SE of this fee. Also i'm not white knighting nothing. I just use my brain. And tend to really not care about nickles and dimes. Now if it was like as $20 fee I would agree with you. But if you going to be "upset" over .11 or .40 that is out of the control of se, the way are you playing a game with a subsciption fee. Also click and buy might have no control over said fee, did you guys call the you banks and ask about it? Or just saw it and using it to complain? Try call you bank and ask where the fee is from or what for.

[Aver]

Need we really go into this again?

This wasn't happening before with direct billing. Remember? Reeeememmmberrrr?

It's happening now with 3rd party billing.

See where I'm going with this?

[Moink]

Rosina... please stop trying to act smart by using your blind sided arrogance to make a claim. To me, you're making yourself look like a fool. The fee is because of C&B ... not because it is from them, but because the banks have charged players who use their cards internationally. I could almost make a good assumption that most of the players don't go around and buy anything from international sites to know where this fee has occurred.

The additional fee, no matter how small it may be, is not right. Even though I will continue to keep playing XI, I still see where the majority of players are upset because of all the payment changes. You, however, have continued to insult their complaints and have even attacked some players. You're a troll plain and simple.

[Celeana]

If you guys have too much problem with clickandbuy, just switch to crista. It's much more convenient.

If you can't have access to crysta, well, maybe SE will add your country for it in the near future like they said a little while ago.

[Aver]

If you guys have too much problem with clickandbuy, just switch to crista. It's much more convenient.

If you can't have access to crysta, well, maybe SE will add your country for it in the near future like they said a little while ago.

I can see you haven't read anything regarding this. Not attacking you, no matter how blunt it may seem, but go read the other threads on why crysta is (AT THIS MOMENT*****) a bad idea. Better than Scamandcheat for sure, but not by much.

[Camiie]

According to my statement the fee was charged by Click and Buy not by my credit union. If it was a fee charged by them it would say so, as they charge me a $1.00 fee each month that clearly shows that it is from the credit union. When they credit me interest, it is also clearly indicated that it is the credit union doing the crediting. This charge is explicitly from Click and Buy just like my FFXI subscription payment is.

Some may not worry about nickles and dimes, and that's your prerogative. I usually don't, but this seems rather shady and completely unnecessary. It wasn't explained to me that we were now going to be charged extra whether from C&B or SE.

Was SE aware that this would be the case and failed to inform us for whatever reason, or did they simply not know that C&B worked this way? And again, why was there no fee while using the previous billing system? Why is there one now? Does SE know? Will they tell us? Are they going to do something to change it, or are they fine with this? I don't see these as invalid questions. If people do, then they can feel free to ignore them. I hope that SE will have the decency to answer them though.

[Celeana]

Aver, i have read all those threads a while ago already and i am aware that the old system is way much better than ClickAndBuy and crysta.

What i was trying to say is: Crysta is still better than clickandbuy even though it isn't the best.

We will have to adapt because i don't SE changing this system anytime soon how matter how much complains they receive. We are talking about SE here who have a reputation of having a very poor customer service.

[Rosina]

If it was a standered fee everyone would get the same fee. People are not. And you guys are not coming forward on your individual fees only agreeing with the 2 that did. One was 11 cents, one was 39 cents. What you guys fail to understand, is SE has no control over said "fee". Like I stated befor it look to me like a tax they just labled it a fee on the statement. There is things you guys can do right now to find out more info about said "fee". Like contact your bank asking where it was from. Contacting click and buy. But this has nothing to do with SE. They might not have told SE this would happen. It could be a tax based on your areas for all you know. All I personally see is this. ::looks on statement::, ::sees 11 cent "fee":: "OMG I GOT CHARGED 11 CENTS MORE RAGE RAGE RAGE" ::log on forums:: "THEY CHANGED ME 11 CENTS ON TOP OF MY FEE FOR THE GAME, DOWN WITH SE" So far no one here is trying to make this a disccusion, only a rage complaint.

Again i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with said fee.

[Alhanelem]

Dunno why you people keep white-knighting a company who continually puts their foot up your A** while making it clear your opinion means nothing to them.

Raist is right, its a fee that wouldn't be there if not for this ridiculous forced change. 11c or 40c its still something that you should not have to pay.
Dunno know why you keep black-knighting a company that isn't doing anything wrong as some sort of evil empire or entity when it's not their fault your bank charges a fee and they aren't actually charging any fees themselves. You're making it sound like either of these things are directly SE or Click and Buy's fault when it's not their responsibility and beyond their control.

I'm not suggesting C&B is some kind of holy grail, either, but a lot of people have said stuff about them that just isn't true.

It's quite clear that SE does consider people's opinions. That's one of the things this forum was created for. They consider our feedback about the game, and they've considered our feedback about not liking the payment options. That doesn't mean they can instantly pump out a platter of new payment options overnight, but they are considering alternatives.

[Aver]

So did you forget to read where the OP posted his statement and it showed as a charge from CnB?

[Alhanelem]

So did you forget to read where the OP posted his statement and it showed as a charge from CnB?
No, because such a post doesn't exist in this thread. And of course if you send money to click and buy, that it's going to show as a charge to click and buy. Fees like that are added to the transaction. If the charge is FROM click and buy, it will show up in your click and buy account seperately.

[Tamoa]

If I'm being charged a fee from my bank for the international transaction with C&B, it's yet to show up on my statement. It's most likely to happen at the end of the month though (that's when they charge me with their other standard fees).

And Rosina, my advice to you is to stay out of any discussion on this forum regarding the payment changes. For 2 reasons: you obviously have no idea whatsoever why people are angry, and to salvage what's left of your reputation on this forum.

[Aver]

Bleh, How right you are Alhanelem. I'd say there are too many threads on this and it's getting confusing, but when it comes to people's money there's never such a thing.

Either way:


WOW Ok here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ
Third one down post by Bayohne:

We are working to add new knowledge base articles to our FINAL FANTASY XI Support Center to try and address questions we're seeing in the forums.

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?
No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

However, if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account (this is not required for SQUARE ENIX customers), they may incur the following fees:

Account Funding Fee
3.9% of any transaction into your ClickandBuy E-Money Account when using a credit card.
Withdrawal Handling Fee
$2.75 per withdrawal from your ClickandBuy E-Money Account
Maintenance Fee
$1.50 per month if a ClickandBuy E-Money Account has been inactive for 12 months and contains funds.

These fees can only be incurred when utilizing a ClickandBuy E-Money Account, and are not applicable to customers who only use ClickandBuy to pay for their subscriptions. For additional details on ClickandBuy E-Money Accounts, please visit the ClickandBuy website at http://clickandbuy.com/US_en/.


HE IS 100% worng.

I did their step-by-step instructions to make the click and buy JUST for FFXI and it took 13.95 and .42 from me. That is an extra fee.

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95
08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

Cross-thread quoting ftw.

[Cream_Soda]

Blame doesn't even have to be put on click and buy itself.

pay w/ X credit card last month. Get charged 12.95

pay w/ X credit card this month. Get charged with 13.50 (or w/e other number you want to put here)

Fact is, with the new billing system, that person now pays more, based on SE's decision to change the billing system(no matter who charges it, c&b, the bank, or se themselves, if they did not change the system, this extra charge would not occur), nothing else.

[Kojo]

Doesn't that statement say CnB charged that?

[Camiie]

How exactly is it "raging" just asking what's going on and why? I have some concerns about this new fee that wasn't there before. I want to know what's going on with my bank account and a service that I'm paying for. This seemed like a good place to ask about it. Sorry if I offended anyone by discussing something FFXI related on a FFXI forum.

[Anethia]

I also got charged an "International purchase transaction fee" of 47 cents. If this was a charge by my bank, or click and buy doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that now, since SE is trying to cut costs by using a third party billing system, I actually have to pay MORE! Now rather than paying $15.95 a month I have to pay $16.42 a month. 15.95 x 12 =191.40/year: 16.42 x 12 = 197.04/year. With click and buy im gonna have to pay almost $6 more per year to play this. Unless SE offers more billing options than crysta and clickandbuy, I may have no other options but to close my account. In the words of Five Finger Death Punch's new song Under and Over It "Sael laveve, adios, good riddance, 'screw' you". *edited for profanity*.

Good work SE, while trying to cut costs, you end up losing as much as you would have gained. Maybe you need to go back to economics and get a refresher course on the biggest law. Money not earned is ALWAYS money lost.

[Tamoa]

If it was a standered fee everyone would get the same fee. People are not. And you guys are not coming forward on your individual fees only agreeing with the 2 that did. One was 11 cents, one was 39 cents. What you guys fail to understand, is SE has no control over said "fee". Like I stated befor it look to me like a tax they just labled it a fee on the statement. There is things you guys can do right now to find out more info about said "fee". Like contact your bank asking where it was from. Contacting click and buy. But this has nothing to do with SE. They might not have told SE this would happen. It could be a tax based on your areas for all you know. All I personally see is this. ::looks on statement::, ::sees 11 cent "fee":: "OMG I GOT CHARGED 11 CENTS MORE RAGE RAGE RAGE" ::log on forums:: "THEY CHANGED ME 11 CENTS ON TOP OF MY FEE FOR THE GAME, DOWN WITH SE" So far no one here is trying to make this a disccusion, only a rage complaint.

Again i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with said fee.


Bolded part no. 1: Not necessarily. If it's an international transaction fee charged by their bank, and they use different banks, the fees don't have to be identical.

Bolded part no. 2: Maybe not, but SE has control over the information they give us, and it seems they have been giving out false information. At the very least they should have said something along the lines of "certain banks can possibly charge an international transaction fee when using the Click&Buy option, please contact your bank for further information".

11 cents is nothing. But that's not the point here. People are upset for several reasons, and it all adds up. And we have every right to rage if we feel like it, SE isn't a live individual who's having their feelings hurt that we are attacking on this forum, it's a business. It really is beyond me why it bothers you so much that people here are angry with a business.

[Selzak]

No one thinks that SE is charging this additional fee directly, but the point is that the new billing system is producing additional fees that were not a part of the old system. Either way you cut it (CnB or Crysta), you will be paying more than the cost of a monthly subscription for your monthly subscription.

For some people (most of us who work for a living and pay our own subscription costs), whether this is an additional $.25 or $2.00, it's still an additional cost that was forced upon us and that we were lied to about.


You guys are funny, read the user agreement. SE is NOT responsible for your taxes. Which is what this "fee" looks like. Instead of being "tin foil hat" warers or wanna be "tea party" activists, CALMLY inform SE of this fee. Also i'm not white knighting nothing. I just use my brain. And tend to really not care about nickles and dimes. Now if it was like as $20 fee I would agree with you. But if you going to be "upset" over .11 or .40 that is out of the control of se, the way are you playing a game with a subsciption fee. Also click and buy might have no control over said fee, did you guys call the you banks and ask about it? Or just saw it and using it to complain? Try call you bank and ask where the fee is from or what for.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about; which in itself might be bearable if you didn't have such a thick skull.

Virtually every single thing that you've posted over the past couple of weeks has been false (even proven so) and yet you just keep on going like everyone else has something to learn.

[Kalilla]

Q: Why is Square Enix switching from the PlayOnline billing setup to Square Enix Account billing?
A: Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.

Thought it was funny :rolleyes:

[RAIST]

Joe Friday, Dragnet (1951-1954)

All we want are the facts ma'am.....And all we know are the facts ma'am

Prior to the biling changes implemented in late July, 2011, customers were able to pay SE directly with their 3DS enabled credit cards through a Regional CC Processing system that avoided any additional fees so they were able to pay SE exactly what they were contractually obligated to do (billing errors not withstanding)

Prior to implementing said billing changes, SE made several announcements implying this option would be maintained for all players with said 3DS enabled credit cards.

Post implementation, it was discovered that in fact this method was only extended to players in the Japan Region ONLY.

Post implementation, those players outside the Japan Region who conducted transfers to be in the new billing system were left only options that have resulted in them incurring additional up-front costs in order to pay SE what they are contractionally obligated to do, be that either for using the Click&Buy service for processing credit card payments or using the alternative Crysta method of payment.

It has also been discovered that in addition to Japanese players being able to pay SE directly with their credit cards as they had been prior to these billing system changes, they are also able to purchase Crysta in the exact increments required to cover their fees to SE, whereas other regions are required to purchase Crysta in multiples of $5 USD which prevents those players from also purchasing Crysta in the exact amount required to meet their contractual financial obligation to SE.

Thus, it has been determined that players in the Japan Region have suffered no additional costs in order to pay SE for services as was implied would be possible by SE's disclosures concerning the billing changes, while some players outside the Japan Region have indeed incurred additional costs in order to pay SE for what they are contractually obligated to pay which is not in agreement with the aforementioned disclosures that implied they would still be able to use the same method of payment via a 3DS enabled credit card that had incurred no such additional cost to the player prior to these billing system changes.

In short, ma'am....non-JP players are potentially getting the shaft in this deal.

Just the facts ma'am.

[Kimble]

Honestly, for those that have a problem with it, just quit the game. If enough people quit, im sure they will get the message. Countless threads have been made about this, and they have already acknowledged it and said they were looking into different methods.

At this point, nothing you can do but not pay them if you are unhappy with them.

[RAIST]

Honestly, for those that have a problem with it, just quit the game. If enough people quit, im sure they will get the message. Countless threads have been made about this, and they have already acknowledged it and said they were looking into different methods.

At this point, nothing you can do but not pay them if you are unhappy with them.

We are leaving the game. Many have no choice in the matter, as they are being frozen out of any method to pay.

And, no... they haven't addressed it.

The charge is the discrimination (or exclusion if you want to be more PC) of the non-JP players from a specific payment method that has been the standard for nearly a decade.

THIS has NOT been addressed. All they said is they are looking at ways to improve the billing system. They've been saying that SINCE THE ISSUE CAME UP WITH FFXIV.

[Malamasala]

They've been saying that SINCE THE ISSUE CAME UP WITH FFXIV.

I'm not surprised.

[Sp1cyryan]

it looks more like a tax since it differs between the people. so far seen 11 cents and 39 cents. Nothing to major. I pay more for a candy bar here in mass.


You guys are funny, read the user agreement. SE is NOT responsible for your taxes. Which is what this "fee" looks like. Instead of being "tin foil hat" warers or wanna be "tea party" activists, CALMLY inform SE of this fee. Also i'm not white knighting nothing. I just use my brain. And tend to really not care about nickles and dimes. Now if it was like as $20 fee I would agree with you. But if you going to be "upset" over .11 or .40 that is out of the control of se, the way are you playing a game with a subsciption fee. Also click and buy might have no control over said fee, did you guys call the you banks and ask about it? Or just saw it and using it to complain? Try call you bank and ask where the fee is from or what for.

I love how you are sheepishly okay with this as well as pretty much any inconvenience the community undergoes. You have the biggest bullsh*t tolerance threshold of anyone here. What exactly does it take for you to be against something? Does it have to be $100? Do we have to sign up for a third party for a third party for a third party? Where exactly do you draw the line and stop being an apologist?

It does not matter if it is only one red cent it is still ridiculous. Not only are we subject to this garbage change of taking away direct billing, giving us indirect amounts of crystal, and being subject to a third party like C&B, but we get an "international processing fee" on top of that third party.

[Felren]

I'm really getting tired of viewing the same few names white knighting on every thread related to this...

Even if its a penny extra, it does matter. Not so much because its a penny, but because its a penny we didn't know that would be pulled out of our pocket.

I wouldn't blame the bank on this one... and honestly paying monthly for a MMO shouldn't be something you have to think about when considering a bank, it really shouldn't be this hard to pay someone >.>.... C&B really wasn't a good idea on SE's part.

And Crysta I wouldn't mind doing if you could buy a month's fee at a time, but the set incremental value kind of currency I've only usually seen done in free to play MMOs which are out to get you in the first place with that system, and it really doesn't belong in a monthly MMO.

[Alhanelem]

Looks like he's posting his bank statement, not click and buy accoutn statement. The bank charged that and noted what it was for. Click and buy did not charge that.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm really getting tired of viewing the same few names white knighting on every thread related to this...

What about the black knighting, am I undesired yet? :P

[Dhex]

http://clickandbuy.com/WW_en/info.html

"ClickandBuy then collects the amount for your purchase using the bank or credit card information provided. The data is transferred using SSL encryption and is used exclusively for secure billing. The use of ClickandBuy is free and can be used at over 14,000 well-known providers, using any browser and with no software download."

"Your advantages

>There is no charge to you for our service
>Immediate viewing of paid content with the click of a mouse
>Convenient monthly payment through direct debit, credit card, invoice, prepaid account or giropay
>An overview of purchases made in real time in your service area
>An up-to-date overview of open transactions, current subscriptions and invoices
>The highest security standards and transparency in invoicing
>Personal attention seven days a week for any questions about your invoice"

Posting on a forum really doesn't help you get any money back.

[Kit_Katz]

regardless of who charged it.. it is a new cost not incurred before, that is now being thrust on players with no explanation as to why one specific group of peoples (non-JP) have been forced into it.

This is exactly the point of one of many problems with the use of Click&Buy.

Square Enix is forcibly alienating a somewhat large segment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americas) of its potential customer base by using a foreign intermediary.
If the need of a 3rd party handling group is so dire then it falls on the responsibility of Square Enix themselves to arrange for said intermediaries located within major geographic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere) locals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania) to provide fair and equal service to it's customers without additional service charges.

As for their treatment of Japanese customers, not being ones ourselves we can not exactly claim to have all the info on that front. I have indeed heard of a number of annoying intermediaries used for Japanese payment methods the likes of which were never used in the Americas until now. I had at one time attempted to register a Japanese POL account and set it up for payment but the methods they used for payment at the time were much more monotonous and ludicrous than the current Click&Buy. If however they are now in fact able to pay Square Enix in a more direct method than other regions that would indeed be a small benefit of living in Japan to offset the constant earthquakes would it not?

[Catsby]

I'm so tired of this. If I don't see improvements to the service or game by the end of this month I'm canceling my fucking subscription. I can't stand seeing the game turn out this way like SE hasn't had 8 years to learn shit.

[RAIST]

@Kit_Katz
You came into the threads a little late to see the post, but there were links to the JP guide on the transfer (you can view the gukide yourself through Google Translate) and it clearly shows both in the pictures and the accompanying text that they can enter their CC information driectly into the SE site, and it is being processed in the same manner as it was previously done with POL--in contrast, the non-JP users are shuffled off to C&B to arrange payment. If I can track down one of the posts contrasting the two, I'll edit in a link.

[Kit_Katz]

Then that is an improvement for JP payment methods for sure compared to the hoops once needed to be jumped through on their end. Sadly still a slap in the face for the rest of us.

[RAIST]

eh... too many hits on the issue no matter how I search on it. You can just open the two guides in seperate windows and compare them. Specifically, look at what goes on at step 7 and on towards completion:

JP guide via Google Translate (pictures don't traslate, but some specific info in there that gets translated that further illustrates the differences):
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

NA guide:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

[Ravenmore]

Thing is SE could have spent hour tops calling some of the big national banks and see what they thought of Clink and buy and wether or not using this companiy would result in extra fees by the banks that didn't happen before. IIRC Wells fargo is one of the banks charging this fee, so not some back water bank. Basic research would have prevented all this on top of they all ready should have know from the crap people said about CnB from trying to set it up for FF14. While it never went to payment yet it should still have set off alarm bells.

The higher ups never learned from Spirits within that just slaping the Final Fantasy name on something doesn't mean it will even work. Trading on the fans willingness to buy on name alone is getting to point of backlash. Even with all the "Fixs" to 14 no game mag will ever give it a decent review, took them a year to put in auto-attack. When there is so many good options to put you time and money or just time coming a gaming comapny can't afford set backs with new games or pushing away players from thier still profitable games.

[Dhex]

You vote with your money just like in any industry.

[Maacha]

You vote with your money just like in any industry.

I and many other are doing this very thing. If we aren't given another way to pay come September, we will not be paying at all anymore. I refuse to jump through anymore hoops, I've tried so many ways to pay and still cannot, and so I will not.

[Zumi]

Yea your bank charged you that fee. One of the reasons why SE should of gone with a local company for each region.

[Camiie]

If the bank charged the fee then why is it listed as Click and Buy charging the fee? As I've noted before when my credit union charges me a fee they are listed on my statement as the one charging the fee. In this case Click and Buy are the ones listed as charging me the $0.11. This is what I have on my statement regarding Click and Buy

8/3/2011 8/3/2011 International Transaction Fee
CLICKANDBUY INTL LTD $0.11
8/3/2011 8/3/2011 Visa Check POS Debit
CLICKANDBUY INTL LTD $13.95

If my credit union is charging me the fee then why is the money going to Click and Buy? Why isn't the credit union taking the money themselves? Below is what it looks like when they charge me a fee.

8/4/2011 8/4/2011 SECU Foundation $1.00

That's a monthly fee they charge unrelated to SE or Click and Buy or anything else. If my credit union is charging me the fee it should look like that.

As others have stated, this fee did not exist under the old payment system. Why does it exist now, and did SE know it would or are they as surprised as we are? What will they be doing about it? Will they be doing anything?

I've seen people mention that SE has no control over this fee, but they do have control over who handles their payment processing. They can work out some sort of agreement with their business partner or find a new partner(s) if that one is not beneficial to their customers.

[Draylo]

Wow I am getting charged an additional 35c per account... Seriously wtf? SE said there was no extra charge.

[Runespider]

I'm so tired of this. If I don't see improvements to the service or game by the end of this month I'm canceling my fucking subscription. I can't stand seeing the game turn out this way like SE hasn't had 8 years to learn shit.

Honestly I'm struggling to push myself to carry on playing FFXI currently, not fun when all there is to do is get a 4th or 5th emp weapon. That's pretty much all that's left to do and the 12 month road map content doesn't look too appealing either, they picked a bad time to make a large portion of the userbase question wtf they are actually paying for with so many other better supported MMOs out there.

[Winrie]

Uhh I'm not sure about CnB but years before SE id or click and buy I was being charged 40 cents by my bank to keep my eu account online via USD, and this month I was charged the normal fee that normally occurs with no extra charges involved. I'm not defending SEs new payment option choices or click and buy before anyone screams I am, I think they are both horrible and inconvienient. I miss the old method. All I'm saying is I've been charged this long for international payments before ids and click and buy, as well as other people I Play with who have accounts they play outside their original region. As horrible as click and buy is I'm not blaming it on this til I see something from click and buy charging, though I don't need to tbh as I've been charged extra anyway for years.

[Camiie]

I understand your situation, Winrie, but I'm in the US paying with US Dollars on a NA account. On my end there shouldn't be any conversion required.

Now, if Click and Buy or SE need to convert my dollars to yen or euros or some other currency, well that's their problem.

[Sp1cyryan]

Honestly I'm struggling to push myself to carry on playing FFXI currently, not fun when all there is to do is get a 4th or 5th emp weapon. That's pretty much all that's left to do

I am assuming you have done WotG and quests, all the nation missions, achieved captain rank, don't care for voidwatch, don't care for low manning Einherjar and other older content, are tired of campaign and don't care for the stronghold notorious monster fights, don't care about ANNMs and similar instances (even a level 20 garrison is fun every now and then), have soloed most of sky, leveled a craft and fishing to 100, synergy to 80, and all other crafts to 60, have capped your adventuring fellows level, have a trove of event gear collecting dust, decorated your MH or a mules MH in an original style you can show off, have already killed Yilbegan and the #7 conflux in WoE, don't care for jumping in shouts and having social fun in PJ or talking to people in general, assisting lower players and forming new friendships, and the new october-march artwork and the ideas of dungeon crawling, last stand, job adjustments including new avatars, and additions to voidwatch just don't interest you at all right?

Yeah, perhaps you should quit then.

[Winrie]

I understand your situation, Winrie, but I'm in the US paying with US Dollars on a NA account. On my end there shouldn't be any conversion required.

Now, if Click and Buy or SE need to convert my dollars to yen or euros or some other currency, well that's their problem.

isnt the OP about INTERNATIONAL fees from click and buy >_>? Conversation required

[Aleste]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to distrust Click and Buy more..

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r465/Alestethewhitemage/charges.jpg

Using their webpage, they said I have had no transactions with them (window in the bottom right). Whereas my Banks transaction history (top left window) clearly states a 2.40 EUR transaction on the 27th (when I signed up for my account).

I've purchased nothing from them, merely signed up to their [insert colourful cursing here] so that my FFXI account won't get closed come the deadline.

The transaction clearly states 'ClickandBuy Europe Ltd.' from 'www.clickandbuy.com'.

I can't wait to see my bank manager first thing monday morning. I'm not going to put up with mysterious £2.40 charge, moreso that SE clearly stated that there wouldn't be any additional fees.



http://support.eu.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=59735&id=455&la=2&ret=faq&pv=10&page=0&c=0&sc=0&so=4&q=fee

As a FFXI/XIV subscription takes direct payments from a user’s chosen payment method, it is not necessary to store funds in the Click & Buy account. Therefore the charges outlined below will not be applicable to anybody simply using their C&B account to pay for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription. Should a customer wish to use their Click & Buy account for additional services, additional fees may be incurred.

...

Please note players paying for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription in a currency other than EUR or GBP will be subject to a foreign exchange rate of 5.9% per transaction.

[Kimble]

That 2.40 charge was to verify your account, hence why it wasnt shown as a transaction.

[RAIST]

That is their test charge to verify the account. Technically, it is supposed to be a pending charge but for some reason the charges are actually processing for some people. It should get reversed in a couple business days. If not, you'll want to contact C&B about it. If you go through the bank and have them issue a chargeback, it may trip up a lock on your C&B account. Then you'll be jumping through hoop s trying to get that unlocked.

[Kimble]

I dont think its suppose to be pending charges. From what I read, they charge your account and then that account gets but into your CnB account so you make sure you use that for part of your next payment

[Aleste]

It's been 11 days for them to get their junk sorted out... Quality service there.

I'm curious as to what the NA FAQ articles mention towards payment... I noticed on the EU version it makes a reference towards paying the additional currency exchange fee.



Please note players paying for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription in a currency other than EUR or GBP will be subject to a foreign exchange rate of 5.9% per transaction.


Does it say that on the NA version too ?

[RAIST]

That was their remedy when it went through by mistake. They may have changed their procedures recently who knows. But they used to just "ping" the account and then you would contact them to verify what was showing on the account and they would reverse it. Kinda the same thing Paypal used to do to verify an account. It was a way for them to verify the person they are dealing with is indeed the account holder.

[Kimble]

Might want to get your facts right. I understand a lot of people are upset with them but should be upset for the correct reasons not reasons you agreed to.

You cant "Ping" an account. The transaction has to actually go through to verify it. It even says when you go to verify that they will change you 2 amounts (seems like in a to of cases, it gets merge as one amount) and that once it goes through, they put that amount charge into your click and buy account.

1. Your credit card will be charged two random amounts between 1.00 and 1.99 USD.
2. Call your bank or check your credit card statement for these amounts (may take up to 3 business days).
3. Enter these amounts on the credit card confirmation page (on the Settings tab in your ClickandBuy account) within 60 days to finish confirmation.
4. The two amounts are credited to your ClickandBuy account.

[RAIST]

Actually, yes you can send a test through without it actually processing. That is the "ping"--also used by CC thieves to see if they can use it, charge a small amount and if it ggoes through, then they go crazy with it. So, technically both methods can be called a "ping".

Used to do pre-authent's all the time with car-rentals. It's a pre-authorization that is put on hold until you send the code through to actually finalize the transaction. For us, on a weekend rental, we automatically pre-authorized the greater of $250 or expected rental time plus one day. All pending charges would be finalized at the end of the day, so they wouldn't actually debit accounts until roughly 5:30 PM, even though it may have been authorized at 8:15AM.

Pre-authorizing and later finallizing transactions is common practice. Everytime you check into a hotel and you give them your CC up front to hold a room, they often pre-authorize a charge to make sure they can get at least that much money. They don't actually BILL the CC until you check out (or in some cases your room charges meet/exceed that preauthorized amount).

And as I stated in that previous post, they may have changed their policies recently. What they used to do was do a authent and hold, wait for you to verify the pending transaction, then they'd cancel it. This saves resources as they don't have to issue refunds. They may have changed things recently as some people have reported both methods happening since SE changed things.

[Neonii]

Dunno why you people keep white-knighting a company who continually puts their foot up your A** while making it clear your opinion means nothing to them.

Raist is right, its a fee that wouldn't be there if not for this ridiculous forced change. 11c or 40c its still something that you should not have to pay.

I think its a form of denial.

[Tamoa]

Might want to get your facts right. I understand a lot of people are upset with them but should be upset for the correct reasons not reasons you agreed to.

You cant "Ping" an account. The transaction has to actually go through to verify it. It even says when you go to verify that they will change you 2 amounts (seems like in a to of cases, it gets merge as one amount) and that once it goes through, they put that amount charge into your click and buy account.

1. Your credit card will be charged two random amounts between 1.00 and 1.99 USD.
2. Call your bank or check your credit card statement for these amounts (may take up to 3 business days).
3. Enter these amounts on the credit card confirmation page (on the Settings tab in your ClickandBuy account) within 60 days to finish confirmation.
4. The two amounts are credited to your ClickandBuy account.

This is correct, it's exactly what I had to do.

[Kimble]

Regardless if it was changed or not (I don't believe it was because it was like that when I signed up for XIV) if the person knowingly agreed to it, then they cant sit there and cry and get upset and wonder why CnB "changed" them.

I understand people have issues with CnB, but dont think they should get upset for reasons that they agreed to and isnt CnB trying to rip you off.

[Alhanelem]

they put that amount charge into your click and buy account.No, the charge gets refunded to your card. Not a "ping", a charge and then a refund.

[Kimble]

No, the charge gets refunded to your card. Not a "ping", a charge and then a refund.

No, it doesn't. This is what it says when you go to verify a card.

1. Your credit card will be charged two random amounts between 1.00 and 1.99 USD.
2. Call your bank or check your credit card statement for these amounts (may take up to 3 business days).
3. Enter these amounts on the credit card confirmation page (on the Settings tab in your ClickandBuy account) within 60 days to finish confirmation.
4. The two amounts are credited to your ClickandBuy account.

[Alhanelem]

Actually, my account only had a $2 hold, and the hold was gone a short while later. There is no charge between $1.00 and $1.99 anywhere on the account history for the card I used.

So regardless of what the site says, that's wrong. Even though my card was successfully registered, it never had a dime charged to it.

[Kimble]

Well if that is the case, I guess its more proof that CnB doesn't do what it says it will do, lol.

[RAIST]

Early on, they weren't running the charges all the way through, but were just showing a pending transaction that later got canceled. Something changed in the last week or so and it seems they are going all the way through for most everyone posting about it now.

[Jile]

07/05/11 Visa Purchase Square Enix $18.95
08/04/11 Visa Purchase Clickandbuy Intlltd $19.32

My bank did not charge me a fee, Clickandbuy did tho. While this is just one of my accounts, and an extra 37 cents isn't a big deal.. I have three accounts and its going to add up over time. /sigh can we just get a damn paypal option please.

[Niyariko]

07/05/11 Visa Purchase Square Enix $18.95
08/04/11 Visa Purchase Clickandbuy Intlltd $19.32

My bank did not charge me a fee, Clickandbuy did tho. While this is just one of my accounts, and an extra 37 cents isn't a big deal.. I have three accounts and its going to add up over time. /sigh can we just get a damn paypal option please.

So only EU players paying Click and Buy with Euros will not be charge with extra fees?



Q: Will FFXI/XIV users paying via C&B be subject to any additional administration or credit card usage charges?

A: As a FFXI/XIV subscription takes direct payments from a user's chosen payment method, it is not necessary to store funds in the ClickandBuy account. Therefore the charges outlined below will not be applicable to anybody simply using their C&B account to pay for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription. Should a customer wish to use their ClickandBuy account for additional services, additional fees may be incurred. For more information on these, please refer to http://clickandbuy.com/GB_en/

Users may incur various charges when utilising a C&B account. These include but are not limited to the following:
- ClickandBuy charges a 'pre-loading' fee of 3.9% of any transaction into your ClickandBuy account when using a credit card.
- There is a handling fee charged for withdrawal of funds from a ClickandBuy account of £1.85/€1.85.
- If a ClickandBuy account has been inactive for 1 year and contains funds, a maintenance fee of £1.00/€1.00 may be charged.

Please note players paying for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription in a currency other than EUR or GBP will be subject to a foreign exchange rate of 5.9% per transaction.

If so, they are afraid to make a Thread: [NA] Square Enix Account Transfer & Payment Procedures FAQ and need to tell people that they will be charge with extra fees cause SE love Click and Buy so much. :p


As a FFXI/XIV subscription takes direct payments:rolleyes: from a user's chosen payment method, it is not necessary to store funds in the ClickandBuy account.

Is funny how Paying thru Click and Buy is called direct payments by them :D:D Is Click and Buy own by Square Enix now, company merged!? So do we call them Square-Enix-ClickandBuy and SEC&B for short to refer them from now on?

But at least to me, Square Enix always will have Click and Buy following their name from now on, Square-Enix-ClickandBuy; Final Fantasy-ClickandBuy; Final Fantasy Versus XIII-ClickandBuy; CronoTrigger-ClickandBuy; 株式会社スクウェア・エニックス・ホールディングス・クリックアンドバーイ; Yoichi Wada-ClickandBuy... (https://img.skitch.com/20110808-c68nym1n16n36tx91scesf25ph.jpg)

[Camiie]

Please note players paying for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription in a currency other than EUR or GBP will be subject to a foreign exchange rate of 5.9% per transaction.

Hmm. I needed a sig, and this seems hilariously sig-worthy. At what point did this seem like a good idea? I sure hope Click and Buy treats their business clients a lot better than they treat the customers. They either treat their clients REALLY REALLY well (nudge nudge wink wink), or SE just doesn't really care about their customers very much at all.

[Tamoa]

Actually, my account only had a $2 hold, and the hold was gone a short while later. There is no charge between $1.00 and $1.99 anywhere on the account history for the card I used.

So regardless of what the site says, that's wrong. Even though my card was successfully registered, it never had a dime charged to it.

It's not wrong. Maybe it didn't work that way for you, but it's definitely not wrong:

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad265/Tamoa_photos/clickandbuy-1.jpg

See? Bottom 2 small sums are the verification transactions that I was charged and then had to input each sum on their verification page. Total was credited my C&B account. I then paid NOK 106.50 to SE two days later, but was only charged NOK 103.79 since there was already a balance of NOK 2.71 in my favour on my C&B account.

Edit: those 2 sums are charged to your card once you verify your C&B account, not for simply just registering.

[RAIST]

Think Alhanelem statement was directed at Kimble's post stating our posts about C&B just placing a pending charge on account was incorrect. Alhanelem was an early adopter of C&B, and thus went through the process prior to them changing their procedures. Originally, they were authorize and hold transactions, but later started shifting to full transactions as more people started reporting on it here.

[Tamoa]

Think Alhanelem statement was directed at Kimble's post stating our posts about C&B just placing a pending charge on account was incorrect. Alhanelem was an early adopter of C&B, and thus went through the process prior to them changing their procedures. Originally, they were authorize and hold transactions, but later started shifting to full transactions as more people started reporting on it here.

I don't know what their previous procedures used to be, I opened my C&B account on July 28th, and verified it 2 days later. Then it clearly stated I would be charged 2 amounts which I had to input on the verification page. You will be charged this when verifying the account, it won't show as pending or w/e, it won't be reversed, but it will be credited your C&B account. No other fees have been charged by C&B. Whether my bank will charge me any form of international transaction fee, remains to be seen.

Then again, I'm EU, and who knows, EUs and NAs might be treated differently by C&B. :/

[Kimble]

Who cares what it used to be really. Im just saying what it is now (because that's where most of the issues are coming from) If you agree to let them charge your account twice and then put those charges into your account after you confirm it, You cant sit there and bitch and moan when they do it.

Seriously Raist, you just need to stop on this point. You seem to have a problem where you have to be 100% correct all the time and can't even admit in this one instance, you are wrong.

[Winrie]

Who cares what it used to be really. Im just saying what it is now (because that's where most of the issues are coming from) If you agree to let them charge your account twice and then put those charges into your account after you confirm it, You cant sit there and bitch and moan when they do it.

Seriously Raist, you just need to stop on this point. You seem to have a problem where you have to be 100% correct all the time and can't even admit in this one instance, you are wrong.

This a thousand times over

[RAIST]

Seriously Raist, you just need to stop on this point. You seem to have a problem where you have to be 100% correct all the time and can't even admit in this one instance, you are wrong.

It's not about me being correct, it's about making sure things are accurate. Some things weren't accurately stated about how it was possible to hold a pending charge without it actually going through, and how C&B used to do it in the past. It's interesting to note I don't see you jumping on another poster that gave evidence that this in fact is the way C&B used to do it--especially as that poster also regularly posts details to try to correct inaccurate statements.

Once those points about the pending charges were clarified, I considered the matter closed--points were challenged, and shown to be accurate. I only made one more post about it as it appeared someone may not have caught what Alhanelem's post may have meant to clarify--and that included what was basically a recap of the corrected issues that had been under debate.

At least we acknowledged things are being done differently now and the charges are actually going thorugh--never even challenged that. It looks more like you may be the one not willing to acknlowedge you may have been mistaken on facts that you challenged, and are just refusing to let it go.

[Kimble]

It's not about me being correct, it's about making sure things are accurate. Some things weren't accurately stated about how it was possible to hold a pending charge without it actually going through, and how C&B used to do it in the past. It's interesting to note I don't see you jumping on another poster that gave evidence that this in fact is the way C&B used to do it--especially as that poster also regularly posts details to try to correct inaccurate statements.

Once those points about the pending charges were clarified, I considered the matter closed--points were challenged, and shown to be accurate. I only made one more post about it as it appeared someone may not have caught what Alhanelem's post may have meant to clarify--and that included what was basically a recap of the corrected issues that had been under debate.

At least we acknowledged things are being done differently now and the charges are actually going thorugh--never even challenged that. It looks more like you may be the one not willing to acknlowedge you may have been mistaken on facts that you challenged, and are just refusing to let it go.

No, I just don't care because it doesnt matter how they might have used to do things because they way they are doing it now is what people are agreeing to and then they cry about getting charged when they agreed to it. Then they cry about they money not going back to their card when it said it wouldnt.

[zataz]

just use the other Method provided instead of c&b, if thats really a issue. i mean really how hard is this lol

[Sp1cyryan]

just use the other Method provided instead of c&b, if thats really a issue. i mean really how hard is this lol

All this has shown me is how things won't change because some people are okay with anything.

This could be as easy as eating a damn apple, and it is not the point.

[Aver]

All this has shown me is how things won't change because some people are okay with anything.

This could be as easy as eating a damn apple, and it is not the point.

Don't lose hope, not everyone is a sheep.

[Lojinxx]

SquareEnix CEO: So, Mr. C&B, what has brought us to this business meeting today?

Mr. C&B: Well, today I present you with a financial opportunity. Currently you accept payments directly through Playonline from your customers. They pay a flat rate, while you're left taking the cut for accepting fees from all over the world through your current payment gateway. Am I right?

SquareEnix CEO: Well, the fees are minimal, but yes you're right.

Mr. C&B: What would you say if I told you we can create a dummy company that takes the blame off you and reverses all those headaches and fees back to the customer with an ass backwards terms of service while you're profits increase by a noticeable percentage each month? The customers will pay the fees and taxes you've been paying for years. Not enough to stop paying, just enough to make you more money.

SquareEnix CEO: Wow! I can't believe I didn't think of that myself. All I have to do is pay you .05 cents per account per month? Well shit Mr. C&B I'll have our web developer's make up a page this week and let everyone know they have no choice but to switch over. For many, this game is one of the best parts of their lives, what with all the friendships and and shitty real lives. There's no way we'll lose business over nickles and dimes. We sure are going to make a killing.


AND THAT FOLKS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY! is there really anything else to discuss?

[Niyariko]

just use the other Method provided instead of c&b, if thats really a issue. i mean really how hard is this lol

Next thing you know, SE will only accept personal checks and walk-in payment. Will you be saying the same thing if this really happens?

Hey, you never know, this is SE we are dealing with. :o

[Aver]

Next thing you know, SE will only accept personal checks and walk-in payment. Will you be saying the same thing if this really happens?

Hey, you never know, this is SE we are dealing with. :o

Trends are cyclic, everything that's old is new again, etc.

But hey, you could pay for FFXI while getting your groceries at the same time.

[Nianny]

I was charged this and I use PayPal/crysta, so I assume it wasn't CnB's fault on this one.

[oliveira]

You guys have it easy, complaining about a few cents of charge...
This is what I paid for 5000 yen for buying Crysta:

Got charged this much on Pay Pal:

Total: ¥5.650 JPY

SutoCorp then asked me for scans of personal documents and proof that my physical address matches the address I filled in the account. -_-;

The 650 yen fee translates into 8.50USD FYI.

Then I received an code to transfer the 5000 yen to an Webmoney.jp account and from that I was able to fund my game account.

This means if someone were supposed to be pissed, that would be me and all the other people playing with japanese copies of FFXI but being outside of Japan.

They're blocking any kind of international transactions on their internal billing system because apparently they were not satisfied with having to pay for the money brokers money conversion themselves. :mad:

In the end I'll be paying that 8.5 USD of fee every three months. :(

At least I'm back into the game ... :p