[dev1020] Walk of Echoes Battlefield Adjustments

[lllen]

Now it beginning to sound interesting.

[dev1020] Walk of Echoes Battlefield Adjustments
A number of changes will be introduced to Walk of Echoes battlefields in the next version update:
General
The no-reservation system will be preserved.
The once-per-Vana’diel-day entry restriction will be preserved.
All PCs in a single battlefield will form an allied group, similar to Campaign battles.
The spawn delay for subsequent waves of monsters in each walk will be reduced.
The cutscene displayed upon receiving Kupofried’s medallion will appear only once.
New upper-tier walks will be added.
Evaluation and Rewards
Evaluation conditions will be revised.
The system providing exclusive rewards to only the highest-rated participants will be changed to one in which all characters rated above a certain level will qualify for extra spoils.
Monster item drops and lottable spoils will be abolished.
New rewards will be added.
Coin drop rate will be increased.
Difficulty Adjustments
The linked enmity system will be revised.
Characters who remain KO'd for 30 seconds will automatically receive a Raise effect.
A possible time limit extension to 60 minutes is under consideration.

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[Dreamin]

Monster item drops and lottable spoils will be abolished.


Can someone please clarify whether this means regular mob in there will not drop any more coin? I go in there often where there's no one else and just solo #1 or #3 for a few coins here and there. With the changes, it sounds like there will be no chance of any coins off these mobs anymore. I sure as heck hope whatever new items being added would be enough to interest other people to go because right now, quite frankly, no one really cares about WoE enough to have enough people to clear any battlefield other than on Sat/Sun morning (EST) when there are enough JP on or the odd ball every once in a while you get 3-4 other solo'ers who goes in with similar ideas of just picking up a few coins here and there.

[Alukat]

All PCs in a single battlefield will form an allied group, similar to Campaign battles.
The system providing exclusive rewards to only the highest-rated participants will be changed to one in which all characters rated above a certain level will qualify for extra spoils.
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sounds pretty much like the campaign system......
not exp/AN based but level based.

[Khiinroye]

They said before that the rating system would still be used, but everyone gets a personal chest. Higher rated people (i.e. people who come on point friendly jobs) will get more drops in their chests, while people who are on support jobs or doing tasks like sacing adds will get next to nothing.

[Alhanelem]

Higher rated people (i.e. people who come on point friendly jobs) will get more drops in their chests, while people who are on support jobs or doing tasks like sacing adds will get next to nothing. No, everyone will get similar stuff. They said before they were eliminating the ranking.

Still, preserving the "no-reservation" system is the stupidest thing ever. I thought they were going to change this? No one likes it.

[Olor]

apparently more people liked it than not, since there was a voting process

[Aver]

Well, now that it's really all about getting the win instead of competing for highest rank, does the no-reservation system really matter?

[Karbuncle]

No, everyone will get similar stuff. They said before they were eliminating the ranking.

Still, preserving the "no-reservation" system is the stupidest thing ever. I thought they were going to change this? No one likes it.

Because the only people who generally do/care about Walk of Echoes and the Gimpyrean weapons are the people without friends to do real weapons and generally sit around WoE Leeching runs.

And those types of people stand to lose the most if WoE Turned into Reservations. So they all voted it down im sure.

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For the record, I'm happy with almost all of these changes. They're quite nice to hear. one thing here or there is a little eh but it looks like it'll make WoE a bit more enjoyable. The new chambers sound nice, heres hoping i don't need the gear from them because doing WoE is painful with large amounts of people. (because its usually just chaos)

[Taint2]

Happy with all the changes.

One question if nobody is doing WoE and you cant get the win, does that mean no spoils at all? That would kill soloing coins. Hoping its like CB where there are always spoils at the end, no matter what the outcome. (obviously killing more = more drops)

[Karbuncle]

One question if nobody is doing WoE and you cant get the win, does that mean no spoils at all?

From one of the questionnaire's i believe it was said "no" you get no spoils if you fail to win.

[Khiinroye]

Thanks for all your opinions regarding the changes to Walk of Echoes

There were some questions both here and on the Japanese forums, so here is some additional info on what’s being planned:


How many people will be able to enter?
Same limit as now (36 people for each area).


Will you be adding a feature where players can place individual rewards into the treasure pool?
We do not have any plans to implement this.


Will coins of ruin be used for something better?
This all depends on the future of Trial of the Magians. We think it would be best to provide other uses for them.


Can you please make coins stackable to 99?
We are looking into this, but it is not something we can do easily.


Please make it possible to exchange coins amongst other players.
This would make the system too easy, so we have no plans for this currently.


If you fail to clear the area will you receive any reward at all? Will it be like campaign union where even though time runs out you will still get a treasure chest after you have been evaluated?
There will be no reward if you fail to clear the area.


I’d like to know whether the brown treasure casket that everyone can lot on upon clearing an area will be removed or if they will remain.
It will be removed. Think of it as all the items up till now will be either added or taken away from each player’s rewards.


Will the contents of chests vary depending on evaluation?
We are planning to have the number of rewards you earn vary based upon your evaluation.


Once again a bit more information in response to some concerns and other questions that have popped up…


If the group system is similar to the Campaign system style, will this mean that AoE enhancements will affect players outside of the caster’s main party (ex: blood pacts, accession, etc.)?
Yep! This will be possible.


You mentioned that after the adjustments, depending on the ending evaluation the number of rewards inside the treasure casket will increase, but if the number increases based on a hidden ranking value this is pretty detrimental. (I want the hidden ranking value to be eliminated.)
The evaluation is not a “compared to others”-type of evaluation, it is a fixed point evaluation system. We are planning to make it so you can increase the number of rewards if you surpass a specific amount of evaluation points.

As a side note, we will be adjusting the enmity system so that there will be less of a chance that a monster will come running towards you in the same spot that you just defeated a monster, we will also be adding a warning message.

Besides all of the things we have outlined thus far, there will be no other changes to the Walk of Echoes system. With that said, as some have been concerned about this, sacking monsters with a separate party will still be a viable strategy.

People who get rated more points will get more drops. People who get fewer points will get fewer drops. The total number of drops is not set, but there are thresholds that have to be made to increase the drops. Support jobs get few points, so are less likely to meet those thresholds, and people who dedicate their time to sacing adds get even lower evaluations. In 1 and 3, where the aoe isn't much on minor mobs, support jobs can melee and get rated the sameas melees, but in the others, melee for support is ill advised. The sacing part may be eliminated in several confluxes with the enmity changes, however.

Also, they said no rewards at all if you don't clear the conflux.

With the lack of rewards without a clear, I can see the random solo people not even showing anymore, which will somewhat discourage leeches. However, people can still follow shout smn groups into 5/7, and can watch for when groups go and follow them in that way. They could make their own groups to clear the chambers, 2 is still very easy, and depending on the strategies that are found for the new confluxes to be implemented, may be able to clear those as well.

[Chamaan]

I don't mind it, and I'm one of those weird people working on Emps and still wants WoE weapons. For example. I do a lot of duo and trio work on emps, but our schedules don't always meet up, so we're slowly grinding through them. Other guys both wanted swords, but I mainly farm pops on Ninja. Jin sucks, I want Hi, but I'm not going to do a whole extra set of Sobeks just to have a good weapon skill for the job whose only purpose was farming pops.

If the coin drops are significantly higher I'll just get my friends to come and help me finish off the coins I need for the katana and be much happier for it. And hell, the new items might be ballin' enough to get people wanting to do the new zones. We'll see.

[Taint2]

I don't mind it, and I'm one of those weird people working on Emps and still wants WoE weapons. For example. I do a lot of duo and trio work on emps, but our schedules don't always meet up, so we're slowly grinding through them. Other guys both wanted swords, but I mainly farm pops on Ninja. Jin sucks, I want Hi, but I'm not going to do a whole extra set of Sobeks just to have a good weapon skill for the job whose only purpose was farming pops.

If the coin drops are significantly higher I'll just get my friends to come and help me finish off the coins I need for the katana and be much happier for it. And hell, the new items might be ballin' enough to get people wanting to do the new zones. We'll see.


I'm in the same boat, I have 2 emps working on 2 more. But I also need weapons for my PLD,RNG,THF,WAR and I'm not going to do an additional 4 emps. The WoE weapons fill the void really nicely. I've already finished Harrier+2 and dual boxed a majority of the coins.

[Alhanelem]

The idea with the revisions is supposed to encourage people to band together to win the fights, since everyone who contributes to the fight will get a chest of stuff, but at the same time, they're snuffing out the people who specifically did WoE because they didn't need help to farm coins for a WoE weapon.

Since "leechers" will no longer be taking away rewards from the people who did the hard work, it seems like this is an improvement, but I still would have preferred private battlefields...

[svengalis]

Wow nice this is lovely hopefully more people will do WoE so I can work on WoE weapons instead of Empyreans which are not even worth it.

[Aver]

Wow nice this is lovely hopefully more people will do WoE so I can work on WoE weapons instead of Empyreans which are not even worth it.

wat.

9876..

[ShadowHeart]

way to break a broken system LOL


me and friend popped in several times to duo some coins and stuff for giggles and have never seen anyone else in the zone every time we have been in there or searched to do it. i agree campaign style might be a more viable option for drops and coffers. The current route is a mistake hardly anyone does it now soon no-one will do it at all.

they broke campaign promised to fix it at least few people still do that unlike WoE lol.

[Cymmina]

I don't see how any of this is what people wanted. This is like the worst combination of everything people want/expect out of WoE.

1. Individual boxes are still based on performance. Ever tried to campaign as a BRD? It sucks. While you aren't competing for 5 individual boxes anymore, your own performance matters just like it does in campaign.

2. No reservations + automatic RR = worst thing I could possibly imagine. If I have a LS event to farm money drops, any yahoo can come in and MPK us or whatever they want without repercussions (we can page a GM, but the event is already ruined by the time they respond). Organized groups don't want them, and have NEVER wanted them (it's less bad now that they're changing the way the chests work, but organized groups still will not welcome soloists). By all means, add automatic RR to ordinary campaign, but it has no business in WoE.

3. No more drops from individual enemies eliminates possibility of casuals ever completing their WoE weapon through soloing/duoing empty chambers. Now they are forced to ask for help or wait until another group arrives and leeches off of them and hopes they win. The WoE weapons are shitty enough that there's no reason to remove the upgrade components as drops. Removing them will only make Empyrean weapons more attractive, and there's already too much competition for them as is.

Who wants this again?

[Sparthos]

I don't see how any of this is what people wanted. This is like the worst combination of everything people want/expect out of WoE.

1. Individual boxes are still based on performance. Ever tried to campaign as a BRD? It sucks. While you aren't competing for 5 individual boxes anymore, your own performance matters just like it does in campaign.

It could be an extremely relaxed eval system like Bastion. If coins are available from the lowest ranked slot then there will be no issue. I suspect you haven't done WoE on BRD because buffers were easily able to place.

The only jobs that were getting shafted were pure DD classes.


2. No reservations + automatic RR = worst thing I could possibly imagine. If I have a LS event to farm money drops, any yahoo can come in and MPK us or whatever they want without repercussions (we can page a GM, but the event is already ruined by the time they respond). Organized groups don't want them, and have NEVER wanted them (it's less bad now that they're changing the way the chests work, but organized groups still will not welcome soloists). By all means, add automatic RR to ordinary campaign, but it has no business in WoE.

While I agree that MPK certainly is a possibility, chances are we've seen the last of the random boss patrols coming to death points.

Though I'm no fan of the average schmuck coming into an LS run based on the fact most individuals fail to grasp simple concepts like backing up or getting away from a pull, if coin rates are sufficiently boosted then this will become a non-issue.

Besides, this setup is easier for an LS to deal with given that when you win, the mad dash to secure loot is gone.


3. No more drops from individual enemies eliminates possibility of casuals ever completing their WoE weapon through soloing/duoing empty chambers. Now they are forced to ask for help or wait until another group arrives and leeches off of them and hopes they win. The WoE weapons are shitty enough that there's no reason to remove the upgrade components as drops. Removing them will only make Empyrean weapons more attractive, and there's already too much competition for them as is.

Who wants this again?

Eh? SE claims the monsters drops will be removed. I guess you could take it as coins being removed but it seems like they were referring to the common junk that often dropped instead of coins.

The crux of this "update" rests on how often you get coins in your final reward loot. If it simply comes down to winning for a 100% chance at getting some type of coin then this update will be a complete success.

However if coins are removed from trash mobs and you need to score high in order to even see coins then WoE will be worse off.

[Taint2]

They should just make coins bazaarable.

[Camiie]

Just have WoE on a points system like Campaign with Allied Notes. The better you perform and the more often you participate the faster you earn points. You then trade in your points for the coins of your choice or whatever else may be available to some NPC.

[svengalis]

They should just make coins bazaarable.

Then that will make it too easy. Most will just buy em!

[svengalis]

wat.

9876..

Have you tried low manning(2-3 people) an Empyrean Weapon? It was hell(with all the competition) for Briareus and Sobek I'd rather deal with WoE weapon in a pick up group then deal with farming a new Empyrean all over again! Great Axe is even worse, I'm not even going to bother with it! Seriously with this new update getting 30 coins sounds like it will be much easier then farming an Emypyrean and after you have the coins the 90 upgrade comes easy, with Empyrean most just stop at 85 and forget about it.

[Taint2]

Then that will make it too easy. Most will jut buy em!


Yeah exactly, the Leeches will just buy them. The serious groups can keep the coins they need and sell the excess. It also allows people that have no interest in emp-1s to still benefit from the event.

[Camate]

In addition to the aforementioned adjustments, the development team has also decided to increase the stack number for coins from 12 to 99. Hope this relieves some of your inventory WoEs.

[DebbieGibson]

Hope this relieves some of your inventory WoEs.

F- you get lol

[Camate]

F- you get lol

Oh come on! That was clever!

[Mizuharu]

Hope this relieves some of your inventory WoEs.

Why am I laughing so hard at this?

[Washburn]

Oh come on! That was clever!

Da-dum-dum-tshhhh

[Olor]

man, I didn't even get it... /sigh
/planefliesoverhead

[Lukielucas]

lol WoEs - woes as in feeling down, even i got that corny pun lol

[Xellith]

at first I was like

-_-

then I lolled.

[scaevola]

Then that will make it too easy. Most will just buy em!


Man if people could start buying Brutal Earrings without doing Limbus that would just be the end of the world

[Godofgods]

Oh come on! That was clever!

i thought it was ^^