How about some actual challenge to FFXI?

[Zumi]

FFXI currently has no real challenge to it. Which leaves me pretty bored if I want to play a the game and be challenged. Not really into boring farming.

Timesinks, drop rates, farming 8 seals and +2 items to grind out a set of AF3+2 armor is not what I call a challenge. Fighting NMs for 50+50 and then 75 of a drop for the Empyrean weapons is not a challenge its really just fighting some pathetically easy nms several times. Can even be done in 2 weeks or less if your a hard core farmer. Most people won't finish this fast though due to a bunch of competition on the 15 min timed spawned NMs on the 2nd part. The game now just boils down to tedious gear farming in abyssea for end game content.

SE was good about adding some new content and the new higher level cap and new abilities and spells but what they failed to do was provide the players with any real challenge in the new content abyssea.

None of the fights in abyssea require much skill at all. Majority of fights can be summed up as melee kill the mob WHM spam their cure 5 and 6. Ok so their might be some fights that require you to remove a debuff or stun a certain move but still those are few and far between. WHMs can't run out of mana. Melee are so buffed and have so much survivability that almost everything in the game boils down to spam heals. You can get such a high amount of counter on monk 70% that you pratcually destroy most stuff in the game with 1 healer. Doesn't even have to be a monk but any geared melee.

Oh and in the case of something might be too hard such as Rani or Shinryu time to bust out the Primeval Brew for the easy win. Why does such an item even exist? Kind of reminds me of using Holy War in Final Fantasy VIII to beat the hardest bosses.

Would be nice if SE came out with some very hard bosses that required more then spaming cure 5 and 6 on a monk, and took some actual real strategy to kill or skill, and people were actually in danger of dying. Having infinite mana is so easy mode. Whatever happened to actually trying to manage your mp or you would run out. When was the last time you can think of that you were actually in danger of dying?

Rather fight some difficult hard to kill bosses for some good gear then kill something then grind easy nms over and over.

[Dubberrucky]

I agree with you I would like to see some challenge put back into the game but there is always hope that all the abyssea stuff is just preparation for what they have in store for 99. One of the jokes in my LS is that they should put in an NM that has exp-spikes or en-exp to simply drain your levels as you fight it with the extreme easy mode of leveling and lack of death to give us something to keep working on at this point :p

[Runespider]

None of the fights in abyssea require much skill at all. Majority of fights can be summed up as melee kill the mob WHM spam their cure 5 and 6.

With Abyssea Square basically added a "select your difficulty" option, want incredibly easy? use a brew, want easy mode? use 3 powerful atmas and curor buffs(everybody uses these even when they complain it's all too easy), want a challenge? go try kill those NMs without any Abyssea buffs, yeah you don't really want a challenge.

All you whiners that say you want a challenge are just talking nonsense, if you actively do kill these NM's without atmas you get your wish, whats the problem? OR is the real point you don't like others having an easy mode and you want those players barred from gear? I think thats the real issue here.

If you are bored because you picked easy mode then that is honestly your fault.

[Greatguardian]

I feel like at least 80% of the "It's too easy" crowd are just parroting what the "BG elite" have been saying for years. All the cool kids say ffxi is easy. Now that easily accessible content is introduced, everyone wants to be a cool kid. I wish I was a cool kid.

[katoplepa]

With Abyssea Square basically added a "select your difficulty" option, want incredibly easy? use a brew, want easy mode? use 3 powerful atmas and curor buffs(everybody uses these even when they complain it's all too easy), want a challenge? go try kill those NMs without any Abyssea buffs, yeah you don't really want a challenge.

All you whiners that say you want a challenge are just talking nonsense, if you actively do kill these NM's without atmas you get your wish, whats the problem? OR is the real point you don't like others having an easy mode and you want those players barred from gear? I think thats the real issue here.

If you are bored because you picked easy mode then that is honestly your fault.

I'm agree with you at 100%
the problems for this type of people is ONLY the fact that now (finally) everyone have access to the best gears in the game, it's not the difficult of the fights... if someone want a challenge, go fight Rani or Shinryu without a Brew and you'll have your fun... but that's not the point... the point is: damn, that noob got Epona like me! now how can I show to the others that I'm better? what can i wear in Jeuno for my pose to hold the attention of the others?

I remember in 2004 a player in full-koenig-set always in Jeuno like a statue from morning to evening and everyone examine him, now that times are gone, and I think is correct, the 90% of the players are veterans with 7/8 years of gameplay, SE can't ask people to keep on loosing social life camping an NM with 36-72 hours window (again, after 7 years!), I understand this means that "notorius hnmLS" CAN'T NO MORE monopolyzing the unique 4/5 top-pieces of gears, but I think: you had monopolyzed for years, now it's time for a game open with that people who don't want or can't spend entire life online...

[Dubberrucky]

There already is an easy mode for people who want it is it really crying that much to want a challenge in a once challenging game? or is it that if anyone wants something not so easy added they are automatically against the world because you do not want to try it?

[Maquis]

I think this just shows you cant please everyone. Something that is easy for you, might be hard for others. Some people find enjoyment in achieving something through difficulty, some find enjoyment through showing stamina and finishing the grind.

If something is too easy, why don't you impose your own handicaps?

[katoplepa]

go fight Rani and Shinryu without a brew,
go fight DL / AV / PW with 6 people,
go fight U/O with 3 people
and so on..

why you don't try ?
maybe because after you won, no-one "can notice" you because you receive the same reward...
so, the problem is "the challenge" as it is (just for the satisfaction of yourself and your friends) or something that can distinguish you from casual players?

[Runespider]

It makes no sense really, take any single payer game which has difficulty levels. If you go clear the game on easy mode and complain it was easy, well you picked easy so stfu?

Aby NMs are actually quite a bit harder if you do them without atmas and curor buffs, try it that way and enjoy your increased difficulty? Aby buffs aren't forced on you, you have to go pick your easy mode so whats the problem?

[Dubberrucky]

You could handicap yourself but where is the fun in that? On the other hand just like people cry and get things changed to be easier why is it so bad for those of us who want more of a challenge to say so as well. This topic talks of additions not taking anything away from the easy mode you are trying to save. For me at least I do not care if the end result is even different. Give me 4 stones instead of 3 as the highest droprate no one will be able to notice one bit of difference other than the enjoyment had obtaining it for those of us that don't think we should gimp ourselves in order to have more fun.

[Greatguardian]

You could handicap yourself but where is the fun in that?


Well. It's a challenge. Or so I'm told. Isn't that supposed to be fun?

[katoplepa]

You could handicap yourself but where is the fun in that?

lol
the fun is (or had to be) try to fight NM in hard-mode (because you say it's too easy), so go and prove yourself you are great, challenge yourself, what's the problem?

anyway don't worry, at 99 you'll have your exclusive and hard new contents, I'm sure.

[Avarice]

You could handicap yourself but where is the fun in that?


more of a challenge

Hey look, you answered your own question.

[Dubberrucky]

lol I do find it funny though that some of the biggest supporters of keeping the choice to leech levels because its their choice after all are so opposed to anyone else saying anything at all should be added to it be more challenging. Even if they would never forced to deal with it in any way either firsthand or secondhand.

[Topdogg]

I;m sure by the time the 99 cap gets here, it'll be the old ffxi again. Just give them time. i'm sure new harder content/HNMs will be introduced. SE isnt stupid. Just give it time.

[Greatguardian]

If you're talking about me, personally I just think the whining about level 80-90 content being easy when the final cap is 99 is just silly. Abyssea is interim content meant to pass the time between 75 and 99. It's not endgame. It was never designed to be endgame. Wait until level 99 events and endgame material is launched before calling FFXI endgame easy.

I'd love a challenge at 99. Another PW wouldn't really bother me (though another AV would be pushing it). But I'm fairly sure that's already in the works anyways so the clamor just seems wholly unnecessary. This is also not the first thread on this exact same topic either. Really.

[Zumi]

If you min/max your character content should be challenging. Handicapping yourself is not a real challenge. Content needs to be challenging to people who play at the best they can play, not doing stuff to make it artificially harder. Yes the best gear should probably be going to the best 1% of the players.

There are other games not going to name them that have a clear rate of like 0.01% on the hardest content.

[Topdogg]

If you're talking about me, personally I just think the whining about level 80-90 content being easy when the final cap is 99 is just silly. Abyssea is interim content meant to pass the time between 75 and 99. It's not endgame. It was never designed to be endgame. Wait until level 99 events and endgame material is launched before calling FFXI endgame easy.

I'd love a challenge at 99. Another PW wouldn't really bother me (though another AV would be pushing it). But I'm fairly sure that's already in the works anyways so the clamor just seems wholly unnecessary. This is also not the first thread on this exact same topic either. Really.

Right. Abyssea is only something to pass the time like you said. You ppl actually think they're gonna give us lvl 99 and no new content? No. Abyssea will die very soon after 99 cap gets here. Will only be used to exp to that lvl then i'm sure you won't see more than 10 ppl in each zone. But yeah, I'm positive SE has endgame ideas for the future.

[Runespider]

Oh and in the case of something might be too hard such as Rani or Shinryu time to bust out the Primeval Brew for the easy win. Why does such an item even exist? Kind of reminds me of using Holy War in Final Fantasy VIII to beat the hardest bosses.

Abyssea was all about including everyone, they added difficulty modes so that even crappy players (no offence to anyone but they do exist) can enjoy the content.

If you hardcore players picked easy modes then...you didn't really want a challenge did you? A whm for instance picking up "poor player help" of +15 mp refresh atmas and then complains about difficulty is not to be taken seriously.

Atmas are no different than cheats devs put into single player games, if you chose to pick them you play the game in easy mode and not whine about it. If these buffs were forced on you when you entered, then you would have a point but they aren't.

[Zumi]

Abyssea was all about including everyone, they added difficulty modes so that even crappy players (no offence to anyone but they do exist) can enjoy the content.

If you hardcore players picked easy modes then...you didn't really want a challenge did you? A whm for instance picking up "poor player help" of +15 mp refresh atmas and then complains about difficulty is not to be taken seriously.

Atmas are no different than cheats devs put into single player games, if you chose to pick them you play the game in easy mode and not whine about it. If these buffs were forced on you when you entered, then you would have a point but they aren't.

Using the best atmas is part of min/maxing your char its not a difficulty selection. There is no selectable difficulty Abyssea Hard mode where bosses do 500% more damage use more abilities and can readable kill you and wipe your alliance at the slightest mistake. If there were hard modes obviously they should drop better gear then Normal mode.

[katoplepa]

Abyssea was all about including everyone, they added difficulty modes so that even crappy players (no offence to anyone but they do exist) can enjoy the content.

If you hardcore players picked easy modes then...you didn't really want a challenge did you? A whm for instance picking up "poor player help" of +15 mp refresh atmas and then complains about difficulty is not to be taken seriously.

Atmas are no different than cheats devs put into single player games, if you chose to pick them you play the game in easy mode and not whine about it. If these buffs were forced on you when you entered, then you would have a point but they aren't.

you right again.
but the problem here is some contents casual players cannot enjoy for lack of time to invest in... and an exclusive reward that can distinguis you hardcore player from other casuals... or something that hardcore can monoplyze again like Ridill or E-body or Dalmatica, etc... this is the point, even if they don't say it clearly...

[katoplepa]

If there were hard modes obviously they should drop better gear then Normal mode.

see ?
the problem is the reward that qualify you like an hardcore player distinguishing from casuals...
it's not the challenge itself...

[Avarice]

Handicapping yourself is not a real challenge.

One of the very few core reasons anyone would handicap themselves in an event where they would normally face little to no opposition is to increase the difficulty. I'm not talking about trying to accomplish things through impossible methods that will absolutely not work, but using new and abstract ways to accomplish the task at hand in ways that would seem difficult, but will allow a chance a success. That's one definition of a challenge.

[Maquis]

Well, if they want that challenge and distinguish themselves without having impact on the whole player base being blocked from good gear:

They could make a BCNM with the new crests added, throw in 6 or more Rani like mobs and have a 0.0001% drop rate on a costume gear that allows you to float around as a Caturae in any city. Then you have your challenge and your epeen and the casual player base can just have fun while obtaining gear.

[Urteil]

If you want a challenge, I hang out on this really nice beach, its got a couple of flaming lanterns to keep the Caribbean Blues away, and during the day the water is as blue as the eyes can see.

But its my beach.

Mine, mine, mine.

But you can come hang out, we'll have some fun.




In all seriousness though, I sort of think Brews ruined the game as far as the easier factor goes. It was kind of overkill when we were allowed to spam those....and I still use them.

I am an awful person. :(

[Nathos]

Do Abyssea w/o any buffs from npc or Atma. You're not forced to use them.

[Dallas]

The "best of the best" players no longer play FFXI due to a little incident in Salvage. Something about "too difficult without it." The 2 toughest mobs in the game were nerfed because they were "too difficult." SE, leave the content alone. It's just right.

[Fiarlia]

One of the very few core reasons anyone would handicap themselves in an event where they would normally face little to no opposition is to increase the difficulty. I'm not talking about trying to accomplish things through impossible methods that will absolutely not work, but using new and abstract ways to accomplish the task at hand in ways that would seem difficult, but will allow a chance a success. That's one definition of a challenge.

Agreed. People who do speed runs in older games usually do it for a challenge. Or play the original FF with only a White Mage. Or the original Legend of Zelda without a sword (except for Ganon, obviously, since it's required to kill him.)

Some people never choose to play through the second quest of Zelda. Some people choose to pick easy or normal difficulty in offline games as opposed to hard. Some people choose to only use Atma/Cruor buffs and pop a brew.

The first time my group of people beat Shinryu we didn't use a brew. We also didn't just zerg either, we tried for Blue and Red procs. This was also before we'd gotten practically any of the Heroes Atmas/Abyssites. We also didn't have Doomscreens. I'll tell ya, that was one of the most epic fights I've done in my entire time playing FFXI. It was hard. It was fun. It obviously wasn't impossible to do without a brew, since we won it.

Challenges exist in this game, y'all just have to stop choosing "easy" at the main menu.

That being said, for 99 content, I'd love for there to be challenges that cater to the more "hardcore" or "elite" crowd, ones that don't have an option to play on easy mode. PW would be nice. Hell, even something like Vrtra was back when he was first introduced (took a long time before he was taken down IIRC, even though his difficulty level is nothing compared to PW). Vrtra was another one of my epic battles from the game that I'll always remember fondly.

If 99 comes and there's no hard content... then I'll be upset. Until then I'm going to hold my judgment, and enjoy what the game currently has to offer and build my character up, hopefully to be ready for the challenges that will come.

[Hayward]

It's getting really annoying to hear these jerks from BG and the wanna-be's from Alla talking out of their behinds about how FFXI is "too easy", as though they haven't been catered to enough over the past 6 years (Absolute Virtue, Pandemonium Warden ring a bell?). The most galling thing is they have a tendency to cheat their way to the top (see: Rog) and swear up and down that they're justified in doing so.

These folks don't want a challenge in FFXI. They only want the best gear to be accessible to only them and no one else so they can flaunt some kind of artificial "prestige" that they can't get in real life.

[Fiarlia]

Actually a number of the people in here telling the people whining about it being too easy to shut the hell up are from BG. >_>

[Kagato]

New expansion. A boxed expansion. New areas and enemies.

No brews. No atmas. Just you, your job, your level, and a team of 6 players.

Problem solved.

[Ilax]

I would like better challenge with of course a better reward (even if is just the Armor texture/color) and same stats on it.

You kill twilight BCNM with brew, your twilight gear is brown.
You kill twilight BCNM without brew, your twilight gear is Gold.

Just that would already be fun. In the end this wont affect the hardcore player nor the casual player.

[MarkovChain]

Whatever happened to actually trying to manage your mp or you would run out. When was the last time you can think of that you were actually in danger of dying?

I don't think I have ever encountered a situation in the game where MP was an issue and I had to manage MP. Unless ou consider /nin an MP management. Honestly everything prior to abyssea was generally done with 6+ and it was overkill this way and people switched to low manning artificially increasing the difficulty (and generally not MP wise since less people on a mob = less need to cure due to less TPs). If difficulty means that we must throw bodies at it (Einherjar, Pandemonium Warden, Absolute virtue) then I don't think it's a solution because it always leads to frustration ("leader get first" necessary rule) and generally is not enjoyable after a while ( attendance issue ...). Anyway we can't have this content until level 99 is set into a stone, look at the visions/scar bosses, they are jokes. I like however the brew idea because it allows anyone to solo any NM, but only quite rarely for some. The average casual player will brew only once in a while (probably without shinryu access even) and the hardcore one will farm cruor like crazy. Both types of players have goals that they can realistically achieve, and in the end balance still exists because the hardcore player has access to more reward than the other.

[Ilax]

I don't think I have ever encountered a situation in the game where MP was an issue and I had to manage MP. Unless ou consider /nin an MP management. Honestly everything prior to abyssea was generally done with 6+ and it was overkill this way and people switched to low manning artificially increasing the difficulty (and generally not MP wise since less people on a mob = less need to cure due to less TPs). If difficulty means that we must throw bodies at it (Einherjar, Pandemonium Warden, Absolute virtue) then I don't think it's a solution because it always leads to frustration ("leader get first" necessary rule) and generally is not enjoyable after a while ( attendance issue ...). Anyway we can't have this content until level 99 is set into a stone, look at the visions/scar bosses, they are jokes. I like however the brew idea because it allows anyone to solo any NM, but only quite rarely for some. The average casual player will brew only once in a while (probably without shinryu access even) and the hardcore one will farm cruor like crazy. Both types of players have goals that they can realistically achieve, and in the end balance still exists because the hardcore player has access to more reward than the other.

I agree with that, just add different texture/color to armor from specific NM that drop gear, and everyone should be happy.

[Gaspee]

Abyssea is interim content meant to pass the time between 75 and 99. It's not endgame. It was never designed to be endgame. Wait until level 99 events and endgame material is launched before calling FFXI endgame easy.

+1

All of this whining is giving me a headache.

[azjazo]

BCNMs are still challenging, go do more of those, and SE could relase more and fix drops and rewards....

[katoplepa]

Vrtra was another one of my epic battles from the game that I'll always remember fondly.


hell yes !!
we tried to do Vrtra in 6 , we came saying: it will be easy, let's see... noway, we fail like noobs^^ (it was a fun fight)
it's not easy : the area is full of undead, those behind the door come in if you are in yellow even if you are in the room, Vrtra keep popping your pets even if you kill it and the room itself is full of undead... it's a very challenging fight!!! try it!!
our pt done Jormungand (easyer respect Vrtra) and it was a nice fight too... not for drops, just for the fight!
the game is still full of challenge if you want to try in lowman.

[Ilax]

hell yes !!
we tried to do Vrtra in 6 , we came saying: it will be easy, let's see... noway, we fail like noobs^^ (it was a fun fight)
it's not easy : the area is full of undead, those behind the door come in if you are in yellow even if you are in the room, Vrtra keep popping your pets even if you kill it and the room itself is full of undead... it's a very challenging fight!!! try it!!
our pt done Jormungand (easyer respect Vrtra) and it was a nice fight too... not for drops, just for the fight!
the game is still full of challenge if you want to try in lowman.

But that been said, is just harder because of the need to toss more body in the fight for 1 item also.

[katoplepa]

doin' a fight lowman is not only hard because you are less people.. it's harder because everyone have a important role and you can't do mistake, so in that way you can demonstrate your skills in the game... when you are 18 people you can do your part but you can also go afk a couple of mins. and no one notice it ... go fight Vrtra in 1 pt and you'll find the challenge: you have to do a perfect fight! ...and I'm not talking about the reward, because when you stop caring about the reward for doin' something, doin' something is its own reward... the challenge IS THE FIGHT, not the reward... because I can PAY some gils to an LS group that fight Rani for me, I can stay in /sit & /clap and get my Epona Ring... this is not the challenge...

[Sama]

Atma is made along with Aby Expansion there is nothing wrong using it.

The problem is that SE is shifting the game into repetition of item farming and once everyone go after it, the system cannot hold. Furthermore, xp system breaks the tradition and created too many n00bie players.

[Catsby]

Go get captain mercenary rank. That's pretty challenging and fun.
I've been dying for Assault revamp for years now.

[Ilax]

doin' a fight lowman is not only hard because you are less people.. it's harder because everyone have a important role and you can't do mistake, so in that way you can demonstrate your skills in the game... when you are 18 people you can do your part but you can also go afk a couple of mins. and no one notice it ... go fight Vrtra in 1 pt and you'll find the challenge: you have to do a perfect fight! ...and I'm not talking about the reward, because when you stop caring about the reward for doin' something, doin' something is its own reward... the challenge IS THE FIGHT, not the reward... because I can PAY some gils to an LS group that fight Rani for me, I can stay in /sit & /clap and get my Epona Ring... this is not the challenge...

Hey i agree with that lol, i was just worry you mean let give us better challenge by adding even that require mass player, because hell no i don't buy that idea and i see nothing really hard into that, like you said, Lowman always been amazing fun and i doubt anyone would disagree with that. I just hope SE add more content that actually limit the number of player, quality >> number.

I love BCNM for that part, it was limited and mr.anybody that success everything on HNM scene, was still wiping on BCNM lol, i so have some picture of couple HNM ls i saw wipe on the Wyrm BCNM, i don't really need name them but ya.. it was a good laugh :) anyway just don't get me wrong, i welcome all new challenge from SE, by time is not about how many player you have to toss on the NM just to win lol.

TY to Avesta to have made most of the RDM dream about solo'ing the world of FFXI, imo these video was the best one on youtube, because it show skill/determination, it was way more interesting then watching a HNM LS with 36 member fighting 1 NM lmao.

[Malamasala]

If you min/max your character content should be challenging. Handicapping yourself is not a real challenge. Content needs to be challenging to people who play at the best they can play, not doing stuff to make it artificially harder. Yes the best gear should probably be going to the best 1% of the players.

The first thing you need to do is re-evaluate what a challenge is. Because if you ask me, everything in FFXI is artificial difficulty.

A) A NM with 100 damage bio aura. Well, it isn't hard, it just means you want fewer melee near to heal.
B) A NM casting DOOM. Again, it isn't like the NM is hard, it just has a random chance to kill you.
C) A NM has amnesia aura. Just annoying, it isn't like not WSing is hard.
D) A NM casts meteor that instant kills your whole group. Again, that isn't hard, that is simply a chance to instant lose.

So what do you want on your new content? A NM that is immune to melee attacks? That just means you don't melee it. A NM that can cast warp on you? Just means you'll be annoyed at walking back to the fight.

How about some extremely odd NMs then? The kind that instant kill you if you wear level 90 gear, so you have to re-equip yourself for the fight? level 5 death so you want to delevel to level 89?

Everything you can possibly think of is just silly artificial difficulty tricks. It never becomes more advanced than "Hold hate from healers, cure person with hate, deal damage". And when it gets more advanced, you get AV, a mob you have to "think" how to solve, and even after the developers tell you how to beat it, you can't do it.

Which reminds me to ask if you have killed AV without BRDs and CORs and Perfect Defense lately. You wouldn't want to easy mode the fight, right? Needs to be a challenge.

[MrWigglles]

FFXI currently has no real challenge to it. Which leaves me pretty bored if I want to play a the game and be challenged. Not really into boring farming.Timesinks, drop rates, farming 8 seals and +2 items to grind out a set of AF3+2 armor is not what I call a challenge. Fighting NMs for 50+50 and then 75 of a drop for the Empyrean weapons is not a challenge its really just fighting some pathetically easy nms several times. Can even be done in 2 weeks or less if your a hard core farmer. Most people won't finish this fast though due to a bunch of competition on the 15 min timed spawned NMs on the 2nd part. The game now just boils down to tedious gear farming in abyssea for end game content.
SE was good about adding some new content and the new higher level cap and new abilities and spells but what they failed to do was provide the players with any real challenge in the new content abyssea.
None of the fights in abyssea require much skill at all. Majority of fights can be summed up as melee kill the mob WHM spam their cure 5 and 6. Ok so their might be some fights that require you to remove a debuff or stun a certain move but still those are few and far between. WHMs can't run out of mana. Melee are so buffed and have so much survivability that almost everything in the game boils down to spam heals. You can get such a high amount of counter on monk 70% that you pratcually destroy most stuff in the game with 1 healer. Doesn't even have to be a monk but any geared melee.
Oh and in the case of something might be too hard such as Rani or Shinryu time to bust out the Primeval Brew for the easy win. Why does such an item even exist? Kind of reminds me of using Holy War in Final Fantasy VIII to beat the hardest bosses.
Would be nice if SE came out with some very hard bosses that required more then spaming cure 5 and 6 on a monk, and took some actual real strategy to kill or skill, and people were actually in danger of dying. Having infinite mana is so easy mode. Whatever happened to actually trying to manage your mp or you would run out. When was the last time you can think of that you were actually in danger of dying?
Rather fight some difficult hard to kill bosses for some good gear then kill something then grind easy nms over and over.

So you want "Old School" FFXI back. The 1-2 hour Kirin fights with so many deaths you'd lose count, etc. It was fun in a way at the time. But hmm... I don't know. I've been there and done that. Things change, move forward, try new approaches to things. Abyssea love it or leave it.

I do wish they make it so only level 75+ can enter Abyssea. The "Leeching" is way out of hand.

[Rambus]

There was no endgame since the game became 80, so the question is, what will the new endgame be? I also wonder if SE knows that there is no endgame material at the moment.

[Delente]

A NM that can cast warp on you? Just means you'll be annoyed at walking back to the fight.
anyone besides me remembering the first year with the bulls outside the nations? lol
In all respects though, I do have to agree with the facts that there truely is no endgame atm, just current game. By the time lvl 99 is released the empyrian gear will prolly be outdated in most aspects just like all the other AF and relic gear was. With that in mind, the gear that outbeats the empyrian gear will most likely come from the mobs that pose the challenge that ppl are looking for and will only be obtained by those who show the heart and dedication of a true final fantasy player...yes I'm referring to those ppl who create engame LS's, get the gear cause they are the leader, then jump servers or claim their account has been stolen. Not to say that the true to game players won't obtain their gear, they just won't be the first ones to flaunt it in the cities.

[Autymn]

I've joked lately with my ls mates that SE is intentionally making things easier so we'll accomplish our goals and stop playing so they can stop investing in this game. I don't think that's seriously going on, but if you think about it too much ...

[Runespider]

I've joked lately with my ls mates that SE is intentionally making things easier so we'll accomplish our goals and stop playing so they can stop investing in this game. I don't think that's seriously going on, but if you think about it too much ...

I wonder the same things, if that is the plan the jokes on them though. Most XI players won't be moving to 14 so if they turn us off 11 they will just push us into one of the many other games out there. Rift, wow, Tera, star wars old republic, GW2.. list goes on, plenty of games around if I lose my desire to play XI.