Creed Cuirass +2 (Body, head) vs. Twilight Mail set

[Kwate]

Hey guys, I'm new to PLD, have all +2 gear except for the body (which is +1 atm),I'm really at a crossroads deciding between the 2. I'm very aware of the stats and was considering using twilight as a mac piece only for my Almace (career BLU), cures, chivalry, etc. But the extra refresh, regen, auto-RR, stat mods, etc. really has me thinking it could be more, any thoughts or suggestions?

[Arcon]

Depends what you wanna use it for. For damage mitigation, use the Creed pieces, body is nice to TP in as well. Can use the head too if you're blood tanking, depending on your setup. For CdC use the Twilight set, same as for idling, because it gives Refresh and looks pimpin'. Also nice for a death macro.

[Rorrick]

Armet is next to worthless. Any haste head is better for TP. Cuirass is better than Twilight for TP.

Both Twilight pieces are macro only. The only time they should be visible is when you're disengaged and running around (or low MP while engaged for the Mail), or when you're dead and in the process of reraising thanks to the set bonus.

[Kwate]

Cool that's what I was looking for, I wasn't sure if the +25 VIT was helpful on damage mitigation or losing the +10 emnity from Creed Cuirass was worth losing.

[Arcon]

VIT is surprisingly useless for damage mitigation (as is Defense), the mitigated damage from Enmity on the Creed Cuirass +2 would be a lot more valuable than both Twilight pieces combined. An exception would be Rampart, which mitigates damage based on the VIT at the time you use it, which means they're a good macro piece for Rampart too (if you don't have Hero's Galea and Koenig/Kaiser Cuirass).

[Anucris]

VIT is surprisingly useless for damage mitigation (as is Defense), the mitigated damage from Enmity on the Creed Cuirass +2 would be a lot more valuable than both Twilight pieces combined. An exception would be Rampart, which mitigates damage based on the VIT at the time you use it, which means they're a good macro piece for Rampart too (if you don't have Hero's Galea and Koenig/Kaiser Cuirass).

Umm I don't totally agree. Defense is useless ur right but when I swapped from a +40 def atma to a +50 vit atma mandys that hit me for ~3-7 DMg hit me for 0 bout 95% of the time. Only doing DMg on crits

[Martel]

I'm very aware of the stats and was considering using twilight as a mac piece only for my Almace (career BLU), cures, chivalry, etc.

I'm a little confused by this statement. BLU can't wear Twilight mail/Helm.

Edit: OH, I think maybe I get this now. By "mac piece" you meant Macro? I interpreted it as Magic acc. Which reinforced the BLU oddity. I now assume you were just explaining that you have Almace while new to PLD because of BLU.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Zagen]

Umm I don't totally agree. Defense is useless ur right but when I swapped from a +40 def atma to a +50 vit atma mandys that hit me for ~3-7 DMg hit me for 0 bout 95% of the time. Only doing DMg on crits

VIT is next to worthless on anything of value... EXP mobs are horrible for testing heck on EXP mobs the difference between Counterstance DEF and normal DEF can be noticed because the mob's attack is low enough for it to make a difference.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Didn't SE supposedly fix vit, or make it do more than it used to? Of course, they probably just made it semi relevant compared to completely useless but still.

[Greatguardian]

They made it affect Critical Hit Damage%, if I recall correctly. Nothing too spectacular or game breaking, really. It's like the AGI/Subtle Blow update. Nice, but not really a big enough deal for people to care and gear for it.

[Lordscyon]

just have both set with you never hurts too try new thinks!

[saevel]

Mobs have ridiculously low stats compared to players, they don't wear gear, eat food, stack JA's and rarely receive buffs. They only have LCF (level correction function) and SE cheating at the attack formula.

For VIT, an attack gets a bonus to DMG based on the amount of STR they have over the defenders VIT, this works in reverse with the attacker receiving a penalty if the defender has higher VIT then they have STR. Except if your a monster your fSTR min is similar to that of a Rank 0 weapon, -4 or so. So VIT helps up to the point where you have about 20 more VIT then the monster has STR, then it does absolutely nothing (although SE said something about it effecting crit damage, haven't heard much on this).

Attack is similar, attack/defense produces a number that the base damage is multiplied against. As players we can get all the way down to .5, at which time we can hit for 0 due to the random + / - that's added on. Monsters on the other hand can never have their ratio drop below 1.0 if (sans signet bonus), so after the random + / - your looking at about 0.6 at the lowest possible. Defense helps up to the point where you have enough defense to overcome the attackers attack, plus more for LCF. Anymore after that only applies to crits. This is why defense seems to work then suddenly stops doing anything. Monsters aren't walking around with 500 attack naturally, unless we're talking Voidwatch NMs.

[Anucris]

So pld gets the shaft for being a defensive job?

Well I'm sure some pld r just fine and effin amazing. There r just I.e. U get a defending ring. An ochain/aegis. And almace/burtgang and u have little to complain over cept maybe cover. I'm just a new pld who lacks these essential pieces. So for now I'll just have to be a crap pld and play other jobs

[Arcon]

So pld gets the shaft for being a defensive job?

Defensive job doesn't equal Defense as a status value. Defensive jobs have other means to mitigate damage.

[Anucris]

Although u def want a haste head piece the creeds 5% absorb DMg shouldn't be forgotten. 25% to absorb while tanking tough mobs is nice. Heck better than a shodow when it procs (almost) And 5% a piece is higher than most other jobs got so that's nice. I'm surprised they didn't lol pld here and make it 2% a piece

[Arcon]

Although u def want a haste head piece the creeds 5% absorb DMg shouldn't be forgotten. 25% to absorb while tanking tough mobs is nice. Heck better than a shodow when it procs. And 5% a piece is higher than most other jobs got so that's nice. I'm surprised they didn't lol pld here and make it 2% a piece

It's more like 1% a piece, 5% total.

[Anucris]

I have 4 pieces on a lot and procs well over 4%
If ur just talking about SE loling pld then my bad

[Arcon]

I have 4 pieces on a lot and procs well over 4%
If ur just talking about SE loling pld then my bad

I didn't do any in-depth testing, but I have 4/5 pieces on as well, and I don't recover HP too often. I have a log from earlier today, I'll parse it later.

[Anucris]

K. Even though u do absorb DMg it seems like it's only a % of the DMg u would have recieved. I don't think it's all figured out yet

[Gradd]

It's been figured out for months, 5/5 is 5% proc rate just like every other Empyrean set bonus.

Any PLD that knows what he is doing will be rocking 4/5 and Zelus Tiara though.

[Anucris]

Where did u get the info. Of course wiki's 5% per piece might be wrong but 5% total? That's just dumb. And every other set is like 10%. 2% per piece.

[Arcon]

Where did u get the info. Of course wiki's 5% per piece might be wrong but 5% total? That's just dumb. And every other set is like 10%. 2% per piece.

I know THF and WAR isn't. I know many other jobs that aren't. It's hard to parse all my data manually, but 4~5% is about right.

[Gradd]

Its 5% for 5/5, you do realize any idiot can log into wiki and edit it right? You can edit it this very moment and change it to 100% proc rate and im sure nobody would even notice.

The set is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from 25% I was foolish enough to believe that before I completed the set, the proc rate is very very very low, while wiki is somewhat informative you shouldn't rely on it as a ultimate source of knowledge for the game.

The testing was done on Blue Gartr a long time ago, as far as XI knowledge is concerned thats your best place to look for anything granted their forum is a giant gaggle fuck.

[Anucris]

K sounds good, but wow 5% sucks. Or well 4% most of the time. Yeah I know anyone can mod wiki but it usually gets updated to fairly reliable info. Is good for quests/missions at least. Now I wonder if my drg is 5% instead of 10. Don't use the full set for ws Neway tho. But thanks for the info guys

[Motenten]

Not sure on the others, but mnk has been solidly tested to 10% at 5/5 (progressing as 2/4/7/10), and it was implied that nin and dnc were also 10% at 5/5 (though I'd only treat that as hearsay at this point). Whm testing is far less substantial (only a few hundred samples of testing instead of the 10's of thousands for mnk), but its data also indicates 10% at 5/5.

Given that thf and war are a percentage of their TA and DA rates, respectively, I would expect them to work the same as mnk, reaching 10% at 5/5.

Which isn't to say that pld is 10% at 5/5, but I'd want to see the actual testing before discounting it.

[Gradd]

Kirschy tested DRK 5/5 to be 5% altho i'm not sure where the testing is, but heres her stating it on another forum.

http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic/183392-drk-af32/page__st__80

I don't see why it would be differnet for other jobs, and Kirschy is about as reliable as they come when it comes to XI info.

[Motenten]

Hmm. Yes, forgot about Kirschy's drk tests. On the other hand, I *do* think it will be different for other jobs. Drk, along with pup and drg, get a damage boost based on the HP of the player or pet. So, a full set would get them up to +5% (won't always get the max) to melee damage, so maybe 2% to 3% more total damage.

Mnk, on the other hand, is a percentage of another proc rate: kicks. 10% of a 25% kick rate means you get 2.5% extra kicks, or about 1.25% more total melee attacks. It extends to weaponskills, though, since you gain more TP. Still, you're not looking at more than +2% total damage.

I expect the war and thf sets to work the same as mnk's kicks. 10% of ~20% DA rate for war means 2% more melee damage, and maybe 3% for thf.

All of those work differently from the defensive set bonuses, though. I can see whm being set to 10% because of the relatively smaller portion of total damage that comes from spells (only one spell every X seconds, etc).

Considering pld's set bonus works for all damage taken, I can see the likelihood that it would be set to just 5%, being more similar to the drk/drg/pup sets in functionality (working on all actions taken) than the mnk/war/thf/whm sets (working on only a small subset of actions taken).

With allowance for the above considerations, I'll accept the high likelihood of the 5% proc rate for the set.

[Martel]

I could give sooo many thousands of hits worth of test data for that proc rate if KParser could register dmg absorbtion(at least, I don't think it does. I couldn't find anything). All I'd have to do is go reparse some old parses. Well, provided I know how many pieces of the set I had on for each parse.

Still, even a new test would be easy. I'd just pull ever mandy in abyssea altep and afk with some regen atma up. But without being able to parse it...? counting that stuff be hand drives me nuts. The chatlog rolls by too fast. And then glitches and blanks when i expand it. <,<;