Bard ~ Job Manifesto

[Covenant]

Not being a full time Bard(partial retired a few years back lvl 60) I found some things disturbing.

~Why does Corsair get 3 rolls and bards don't?

Possible solutions I can think of...

Re-categorize the types of bard song available and offer a single buff "3rd song" that ISN'T overwritten by normal AoE songs.
Even more specific, the stat song are completely underutilized and with a Scholar's Stormsurge pointless. Not to mention every bard song overwrites itself, so giving players a stat boost will overwrite itself next song sung.

This "3rd" song option would increase song use across the spectrum.

[Areola]

In most situations x2 march trumps anything cor can give not to mention 9/tic balled is lovely(for those of us with out a G horn :( ). When cor gets a there third roll i might here " Hey Areola come on out on Cor" someday. I haven't herd that seance i leveled Brd, and then i leveled whm... but that's a different story

[Babekeke]

BRD can get 3 songs, we just have to make a dam Empy to get it. That's probably how SE sees it.

[Lushipur]

I sony see COR so underpowered that he need a 3 roll to conpensate.

I hope SE have something in mind for us.

Everybody wants new toys to play with.

Having to clear one of the most difficult empy, isnt right.

[Yinnyth]

Gjallarhorn is better than empy because quality is better than quantity. As stated in the manifesto, they intend to give bard a JA that will double the power of one song (like using soul voice). Granted it will probably be 20 minute recast, but with troubadour, my songs last 6 minutes currently and I could get them longer than that if I get carwenhan which means one soul voiced song for about 1/3 of the time.

Bard is my primary main, corsair is my secondary main. Both are good jobs, though corsair is a little less powerful in most situations.

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

[Creelo]

Gjallarhorn is better than empy because quality is better than quantity. As stated in the manifesto, they intend to give bard a JA that will double the power of one song (like using soul voice). Granted it will probably be 20 minute recast, but with troubadour, my songs last 6 minutes currently and I could get them longer than that if I get carwenhan which means one soul voiced song for about 1/3 of the time.

Bard is my primary main, corsair is my secondary main. Both are good jobs, though corsair is a little less powerful in most situations.

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

The first part isn't true in the slightest.

Currently, the only song atm that remains uncapped is Scherzo (possibly Minuet V too for the poorly geared Brds w/o Merits... can't remember tbh)

Gjallarhorn is really only good for Ballad and Scherzo, among many other useful traits it has though (Wind based March +3 is nice if you don't want to hit Mages in certain areas, etc.)

It'll prove to be extremely useful when the next March Tier is released due to the skill on it. Still, Gjallarhorn doesn't seem special enough imo. What it should really have is it's own, exclusive song (Similar to how each Relic Weapon gets its own Weaponskill). Idk what kinda song it'd be, but there's a lot of room to do something creative with an exclusive song for Gjallarhorn. I feel like "Glory 'something'" would be an appropriate song title lol

Anyways, as it currently stands at the 90 Cap, Daurdabla is definitely a better instrument than Gjallarhorn overall. The nice thing though is that you can have both!! lol Aiming for Daurdabla AND Gjallarhorn is optimal!

[Creelo]

imo, the biggest thing I want for bard is a fix to that annoying bug where songs fail to overwrite if there's over 2 minutes remaining on it. (ballad 2 >> ballad 3 >> troubadour ballad 2 = song has no effect)

Blegh, forgot to mention that I completely agree with this! >.<

[Camate]

Howdy! Here's some love for bards :)


Fix the range variations for effects from songs when using stringed instruments.

We are looking into addressing this.


Make it so a songs effect area is focused on the party member targeted instead of the bard.

It was set to focus on the bard since it is the same concept as white mage’s bar-spells. Since songs have the advantage that they cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, we plan to leave it as it is for now and allow you to decide the area of effect by your placement.


Make it so song effects also influence by your stats.

Since song effects increase with skill, we have no plans of making it so stats influence it as well.



Increase wind/string/singing skill to A.

In the case of songs, they are based on the combination of instrument skill + singing skill, so it is quite different from skills that rely on just a single skill. Due to this, if there is a necessity to adjust accuracy, instead of adjusting skill ranks, we are considering adjusting the calculation of the accuracy rates themselves.


Revamp the resist rate of requiem.

The development team would definitely like to do something about this and are planning to revamp it.


Reduce the recast time on Pianissimo and Tenuto.

Since the amount of gear that reduces song recast time has increased, we would like to make adjustments to go along with this.


Make it possible to use Pianissimo and Tenuto at the same time.

Unfortunately, since this would require us to totally remake and rebalance Pianissimo and Tenuto this is a difficult thing to do.


Revamp the stats on songs that enhance resistances to status ailments.

It’s true that when compared to the benefits other songs provide, it’s pretty hard to prioritize these songs, so we would like to do something about it.


Make Etude/Prelude an AoE effect.

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?


Make Adventurer’s Dirge an AoE effect.

We would like to look into this along with the merit point revamps.


Will Massacre Elegy be added?

We have plans to. However, when considering the stats, we are planning to make it so this isn’t a song that can be used by just anyone.


Add a song that enhances magical accuracy.

Since you can already enhance your magical accuracy through the use of a lot of equipment, we are thinking it would be more beneficial to give party members a different kind of song effect.
(For example, perhaps a song that reduces an enemy’s magical defense, etc.)



Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

[Covenant]

I've just thought of something...as we approach lvl99 why does bard still have the separate "song" paths? Would you foggier that a "grandmaster" bard could wieve a song that boosts and have several effects?

With the Abyssea atma system, we have a basis of what I'm requesting. A song that has 3 effects...1 major, 1 medium, and 1 small effect. For example, rather than simply giving bard Mage ballad 4, SE could give a song that gives effect 1 major refresh, 1 medium conserve mp, and 1 minor MaB. Another song could give ACC major, ATT medium, and 1 crit minor.

I'm not a bard, but this simple change could make bards amazing. Not to mention SE could still keep the "2 song" only model.

[Lushipur]

what about another song effect other than daudabla?
maybe a new merit ability?

[Supersun]

If that doesn't say that the G Horn is getting Massacre Elegy at 95 I don't know what does.

[Raksha]

Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

Do people use daurdabla to cast on monsters?

[Ashay]

Bard really should just get a natural third song as all it has is buffing and light support.

[Retsujo]

Howdy! Here's some love for bards :)

Thank you for the update, Camate! I still have some questions I hope you can find the time to answer:

In addition to the confirmed song that reduces an enemy's magical defense, can we hope to see a song or two that increases our party's magical defense?
Can we hope to see some songs available to cast on players outside of our party? (Much like single-target enhancing spells or Dancer waltzes and such.)
We have a Job Ability that reduces an area of effect song to a single target. Instead of remodeling songs to be area of effect like someone mentioned, can we expect to see a Job Ability that allows a single target song to expand to an area of effect in a way much like Pianissimo? (I feel that would create less hassle from how we already understand songs like the Preludes and Etudes)
Can you reveal Horde Lullaby II? :P

Thank you again for replying, we really appreciate it! ^^

[Creelo]

~Will Massacre Elegy be added?

We have plans to. However, when considering the stats, we are planning to make it so this isn’t a song that can be used by just anyone.

~~~~~~~~~~

Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

If the note about Massacre Elegy is in regards to making it a -Gjallarhorn Only- song, you will have made me and maaaaaaaaany other Brds (and people in general) extremely happy. That would be the perfect buff for Gjallarhorn.

HOWEVER.

As excited as I was about the part with Massacre Elegy, I couldn't believe what I was reading about the Dev. Team's comments about "Gjallarhorn's lack of power."

FIRST: THE REASON WHY GJALLARHORN IS MORE ACCURATE THAN DAURDABLA IS BECAUSE IT'S A WIND INSTRUMENT. We've known for literally 10 years now that wind instruments are naturally more accurate than String instruments. Hell, a lvl 1 Flute is probably more accurate than a Daurdabla when it comes to landing Elegy. X.X (Even considering the +40 skill on Daurdabla).

SECOND: Landing Debuffs isn't really the problem with Gjallarhorn at the moment... A Brd without Gjallarhorn can land songs pretty easily on anything that won't require Elemental Seal (Honestly, the only relevant mobs that really resist Elegy atm are a few of the ToA inspired mobs like Dhorme Khimaira in the Heroes Zones)

THIRD: DOES THE DEV. TEAM REALLY THINK BARD'S ARE DEBUFFING WITH DAURDABLA!?!?!?!? A Bard that has worked hard enough to get through all the Colorless souls/Apademak Horns to complete their Daurdabla is (hopefully) not dumb enough to be using their Daurdabla as a full-time debuff instrument too... Daurdabla is literally only meant for one thing (a really nice "one thing" though), and that's for a Third Buff. We KNOW it's not meant to be used as a Debuff instrument. Seriously, Dev. Team? Seriously?? x.x


I'm really hoping that Massacre Elegy comment alluded to it being given to Gjallarhorn owners, if not... Gjallarhorn's probably screwed. x.x

[Linkn]

I would really like to see Bard have a trait or something to let them walk and cast songs at the same time. It is always an annoyance when someone will move slightly as i'm casting a song or just started to. Would just be nice to be able to close that gap and land the song on them without having to recast it.

[Leonlionheart]

I see nothing about March, therefore there is nothing that is important.

lol jk though, the magic defense down bit seems totally awesome. <- Highlight

[detlef]

It's silly to debuff with Daurdabla because in addition to having no effect on song potency, it also has no effect on song duration. I highly doubt that SE is not aware of this.

[Kavik]

Make Etude/Prelude an AoE effect.
We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

in response to it being a problem:


We have a Job Ability that reduces an area of effect song to a single target. Instead of remodeling songs to be area of effect like someone mentioned, can we expect to see a Job Ability that allows a single target song to expand to an area of effect in a way much like Pianissimo? (I feel that would create less hassle from how we already understand songs like the Preludes and Etudes)

This is not that different from Accession and i think it's a REALLY good idea. I would LOVE to give my whole party STR Etudes in one go as opposed to casting it on each person. Yet much like Accession and Storm Spells you could still give one person the individual buff they prefer or find most useful to them.

Also at first i thought Pianissimo is 15 sec recast why would need to shorten the recast as someone mentioned, then i thought of all the gear i have that reduces song cast time and all the times i've sat and waited for it to be up, and i thought, well it could probably use a little shorter recast, maybe through merits or an addition to gear of some sort.

[Leonlionheart]

I really hope BRD does get March III, there's really no other way to let BRD use any other songs than March I+II w/o having two bards.

[Jackalman]

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

People honestly still think that there is NEVER a better song combination than 2x March? Despite higher tiers of other songs and the incredibly useful Scherzo, you guys still agree that I may as well have only bought/quested ballads and marches? Awesome, I want you in my endgame shell. (Told you I understand sarcasm.)

Still, there were some great ideas posted here. When pianissimo was first mentioned as a possible update, I expected fortissimo to naturally follow (as others posted, it would turn a single target effect into an AOE effect. I personally think SE could even implement it as an effect that turns a single-party song into a full-alliance song if they were to give it a long recast time so as to not make it overpowered). I'm surprised it never materialized in some form. By the way, doesn't anyone remember that etudes were originally AOE buffs and SE changed them like 7 years ago to be single-target? Making them AOE again is really not a good idea, but implementing fortissimo with them in mind (as others here have pointed out) makes good sense.

I've also always wanted SE to make those buff resistance songs more useful. My idea is for them to allow them (and only them) as a 3rd song buff. They may still get ignored, but they could be potentially useful. However, using them in place of any of our normal songs is ridiculous. There are even 2 tiers of Operetta (silence resistance). Hell, they're even stackable! Seriously, wtf is that about?

I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

I really can't get that excited about a magic defense song. It will be nice to have, and I'll probably use it on every mob right after I elegy it, but it's such a small thing, and really something we just should have had a long time ago. SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

We'll probably get Foe's Requiem VIII in the next update. I normally wouldn't even care, but SE is promising to revamp it, so here's hoping. How ridiculous is it that a BRD/WHM can land Dia II easily on a mob but can't land Requiem VII on the same mob? This is so long overdue, but I'm glad SE finally noticed.

Retsujo posted an idea to cast songs outside of the party. I like this idea. Right now, especially with song duration+ gear, a BRD can cast 2-3 sets of songs, debuff the mob, throw in a few cures, and still have a bunch of downtime. What if that BRD could pop a new ability and sing single-target etudes/preludes on alliance members not in the party? It would be a good use of time and is probably easy for SE to implement.

I should post again soon with ideas I have for the job. I haven't posted here before despite reading the threads often and following the dev posts closely. I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

[Retsujo]

I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

Unfortunately a lot of people grow with a job doing mostly one thing with it and get no real opportunities to learn the "waterfalls" for what the job's worth so they just stick to "the rivers and the lakes" that they're used to.

I apologize for the TLC reference :3

[Flionheart]

I'm not a fan of the idea that M.Elegy will be a Ghorn only song, but I understand it I guess.

I hope there's an alternative way to get it, like the fake relics with the WS if that's the case.

Also agree completely with what Jackalman said.

Simply put, BRD needs more abilities, and preferably more songs that assist Mages. It's bad when you don't need Ballads due to Atma, so you resort to marching the mages, there should be a fast cast song imo.

I really hope you're not going to keep BRD the way it is at the moment, because in reality it's a pretty boring job how it stands. I personally love the job and I have done since I've levelled it, but I feel like I could be playing many other roles at the same time, and that's a bad thing. BRD was always about being busy and keeping on top of things, but it really doesn't feel like that any more. You buff the DD (And mages if they require it, which is rarely), Debuff the mob... and then become a surrogate WHM for a minute or so, then re-apply buffs/debuffs.

I want to be changing my songs depending on the situation (Which does happen occasionally with Scherzo and carols).

I want to feel like buffing the mages is as much of a priority as buffing the DD.

I want BRD to become hectic.

[Vagrua]

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

No problem a simple macro can't fix. :)

[Flionheart]

I honestly don't think AOEing prelude is the biggest concern with the job really. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't partied with a ranger lately, let alone more than one. And even if I did, most of them prefer minuet.

[Creelo]

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.


Do you think that the potency of Debuffs is affected by Skill?

It's not. It only affects Resist rates.

Do you think that "Increases Song Effect Duration" affects the duration of Debuffs?

It doesn't. It only affects Buff Songs, similar to AF3 Neck, AF3+1/2 Body, and Carnwenhan.

That part of your post implies that you were regarding using Debuffs with a Daurdabla. If you don't actually know what Skill or "Increases Song Effect Duration" actually does for Debuffs, don't post about it, be wrong, and then proceed call the OP ignorant in the next section below...



People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

First bolded statement is irrelevant. You shouldn't be debuffing with Elegy using a String Instrument anyways. Only acceptable debuff with Stringed is Horde Lullaby and possibly Threnody with Sorrowful Harp (although it's hardly worth it for Sorrowful Harp's case and definitely isn't as accurate as a Piccolo +1.)

Yes, +40 Skill is quite a lot, but a Wind-based Instrument will probably still beat it out, or at least match it on resist rate. Iirc, Debuff instruments like Lullaby +2 only add to duration and potency, not resist rate. (Ex: Nursemaid's Harp vs. Mary's Horn back in the day for Foe Lullaby) You cannot tell me the gap in resist rate/half resists/etc. with a Wind Instrument and a String Instrument isn't small when debuffing anything worth a crap. I'm sorry, you just can't. <.<

In the end, it's all a pointless endeavor anyways because you won't be debuffing with Daurdabla...

Also, "finale and finale"? :p

Underlined Portion: No one cares, first of all. <.< And a "String gear set" is literally like... 2 extra Pieces compared to Wind: String Torque and Marduk's Crackows... Other than possibly using it for String Debuffs, there is no point for this. The only reason why you may need the Skill is if it can bump you up another tier in range on Chocobo Mazurka. (Maybe with Ballad III if you need the range, but that's hardly needed and usually the opposite x.x)



I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

Massacre Elegy is 100% Slow. Even if SE lowers that to 75% for Players, that's just insane. Through a quest, every single Brd out there could get it and become such an overpowered job. I'm sure SE would have to make the most annoying quest to even let this happen on a fair scale (worse than Black Belt in its current state <.<).

I'd much rather see this as an exclusive song to Gjallarhorn. Something to truly separate a Gjallarhorn Brd from a regular Brd. Such power should only be deserved for the Bards (and their Linkshells) who have put themselves through the trouble of getting a Gjallarhorn and putting it through its trials (granted the Trials are pretty easy).


We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

For those who haven't seen, a song dat was added in the latest Dat Mining vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzNOQ_Ly-k&feature=player_embedded

Found around the 2min mark. Looks to highly be a Third Tier of March, hopefully to be available to players. Would be really shocked if it wasn't since it's as you say "Just makes sense." It won't change the Haste Cap or anything though... Would just allow for you to hit the magical haste cap more easily. And I agree with you and the others, Horde Lullaby II definitely needs to be coming too! >.<


SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

Agree 100%. That's the one thing that always makes me a little jealous of Cor Buffs, they're all so different and pretty original. They still lack haste, and always will, but still... :/


I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

I'm in the exact same boat; I wouldn't make such long posts if I wasn't. But I will criticize your own post if you dare to call me ignorant of Bard. Especially when your own post is riddled with bits of wrong info and silly logic.

[detlef]

As stated, Daurdabla is strictly a buffing instrument and really shouldn't ever be used for debuffs. I was very disappointed when I realized that I couldn't use it for horde but eh, what're you gonna do. I do like the freedom of a third song, which has allowed me to use scherzo, carols, minuets, madrigals, or whatever the situation calls for.

Aegis got a big boost the last update. Level 90 relics also got significant weapon skill damage boosts. As a Ghorn owner I'd be pretty happy with an exclusive song to separate the instrument from the other +3 instruments. If it's Massacre Elegy, I would be thrilled.

[Schrute]

Hi, make a magic attack song(s). We can already give haste songs and attack songs that work for attack and ranged attack, let us play some most excellent tunes for our beloved nukers of the world. Or here is an idea, make it so minuets affect magic attack tooooooo O-O. I like this idea, I play Bard a lot and would love to play more than refresh songs, marches, etudes, and elegy. I WANT TO BE THE DJ HERO ME PLOZ

[Flionheart]

There needs to be more mage friendly songs. Ballads only gets a bit boring. You want Mages to be excited about having a BRD.

[Kit_Katz]

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

Positioning alleviates this problem and even if not, it would be better to Pianissimo one RNG than Prelude 5.

[Jackalman]

I'll admit to not knowing about the "song effect duration" being applied to debuffs. I never tested it and don't really use that gear in my debuff set anyway. Seems strange to me, but you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll take you at your word. I also know that skill does not affect potency. I was not thinking properly when I read it and thought you were referring to resist rates. Since Daurdabla has no +1/2/3 to any songs, it does nothing to actual potency and therefore really shouldn't be used except for the 3rd song buff or if the skill is needed to land a debuff and you don't have a Gjallarhorn. I really just misread what you said and I apologize.

As for me saying "finale and finale", that's what I get for not proofreading. I meant lullaby and finale. I still keep nursemaid's harp on me for occasional use. I use sorrowful harp for threnody still, and I used military harp for finale up until better options were pretty recently added. I always preferred maximum duration to the small chance of having a higher resist rate by not using a wind instrument.

I was assuming SE would gimp massacre elegy somewhat. If they keep it at 100%, then Gjallarorn-only makes sense. In that case, they could make an in-between tier elegy that could be quested for non-Gjallarhorn bards. Just an idea.

I still disagree with 40 skill being worthless compared to simply using a wind instrument. Without looking it up right now, 1 skill is supposed to be worth 0.5 MACC or 0.5 CHR or something. You honestly think that using a level 1 flute compensates for this simply because it is a wind instrument? I can't believe that could possibly be true. Having a +1/2/3 to the song effect only affects potency and duration as you said, not resist rate. However, I assume you have a debuff set with a ton of MACC and CHR, so why should landing songs using a stringed instrument be a problem? Even if you use string gear to maximize your aoe range, this has a significant impact on lowering resist rates as well. Your arguments seem to suggest that we are debuffing naked except for an instrument.

I'm not really sure how my post was "riddled with bits of wrong info and silly logic" since you only called me out on the one thing. We obviously are both coming from the same place here. I'm not trying to criticize, but I'mn stating factual information just as you are. We should probably just meet for a beer and discuss the finer points of bardery.

[Hayward]

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

One thing I'd like to see is a more diverse array of enfeebling songs (Requiem, Elegy, and Threnody isn't quite active enough for my liking). A Terror-based song, maybe? Confusion?

[Leonlionheart]

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

One thing I'd like to see is a more diverse array of enfeebling songs (Requiem, Elegy, and Threnody isn't quite active enough for my liking). A Terror-based song, maybe? Confusion?

Why would anyone quit just from losing out on a song that they've lived without for years? I think the community is getting kind of spoiled, I mean we really got about half of one level cap raise's content every year previously. You just didn't notice you were getting next to nothing because the content took you forever to do.

[Zirael]

I really believe a lot of Bards will retire the job if Massacre Elegy is limited to Gjallarhorn exclusively. What point would there be to continue playing the job otherwise? Knowing this playerbase, you and I know exactly what will happen if a Bard tries to get into an event without it. I could transcribe it word for word, but that isn't necessary. You're reading it in your mind as you read this post.

I doubt it will be any worse than being a TH3 Thief in your endgame linkshell back at lv75.

[detlef]

Yes this will be terrible for non-ghorn brds who will be forced to raid on a different job. I really, really feel for you guys, having to come on BLU one day, WAR another day, NIN another day... But not me! I get to come BRD every day!

[Yinnyth]

Do you think that the potency of Debuffs is affected by Skill?

It's not. It only affects Resist rates.

Requiem has a soft cap on its damage, no? Similar to paeons, you can break a skill barrier and suddenly requiem 7 does 8 damage/tick instead of 7.

Something I'm confused about is just before the post by Camate, you disagree with me and claim that Daurdabla is better for bards than Gjallarhorn:

Gjallarhorn is really only good for Ballad and Scherzo, among many other useful traits it has though (Wind based March +3 is nice if you don't want to hit Mages in certain areas, etc.)

It'll prove to be extremely useful when the next March Tier is released due to the skill on it.

Which I disagree with. I think a third march would actually be better for Derpa than Ghorn. And after Camate's post, you seem shocked at his comments regarding Gjallarhorn getting another level tier next update:

As excited as I was about the part with Massacre Elegy, I couldn't believe what I was reading about the Dev. Team's comments about "Gjallarhorn's lack of power."


In fact, Camate's comments about gjallarhorn seems to be in direct response to your comments that daurdabla is better. So I don't think he's saying gjallarhorn is underpowered anymore than you were... if you were. I can't really be certain since your 2 posts seem to be in opposition to one another what you're getting at.

[VoiceMemo]

There are 2 sides to this issue IF massacre elegy is made to be Gjallarhorn only,
the ones that have Gjallarhorn and the ones that do not.

The ones that have Gjallarhorn will welcome Gjallarhorn specific song as it has been
overlooked for a long time. Relic weapons and shield are all recognized when players either see
the item on their character or the weapon skill that only came with the weapon(this case for gun
and bow, as they are not seen on character unless examined like Gjallarhorn or used in battle) Gjallarhorn is unique in relics where their effect is not as noticeable unless you were a mage and specifically counted the mp/tic.

The ones that do not have Gjallarhorn will be angry that they don't have access to the song. Now some of you may say well make a weaker version of the song available via quest or some other means to non relic owners, like the weapons that allow non relic weapon holders to use the relic weapon skill. This comparison is slightly different though, because the weapons that allow non relic weapon holders to do the weapon skill are pretty much there just for fun. I've not seen any dd try to use them seriously over other weapon skills. The same cannot be said for a spell, even if it reduced in potency. Even if it is reduced to say 75% slow, granted yes 100% slow is greater than 75% slow does this really help the production of new Gjallarhorns? I seriously doubt anyone that is not currently working on Gjallarhorn would consider going after 1 instrument that would only be a ballad/scherzo/25% greater elegy instrument than a normal bard.

I know there are people out there that have said that people that own their relic now have used their Dynamis linkshell to get it, that leaders have been unfair and greedy. While I can't speak for everyone I can speak for myself. I waited a good 2 years to even fund in my dynamis linkshell(I was not a leader at the time), once I started funding I started to lead runs and even now, 2 years after I've completed my relic I'm still leading runs and helping out the linkshell. So as a relic owner I feel that I've done above and beyond what is required for one, and that a Gjallarhorn specific song is well warranted.

I for one was not pleased when +3 versions of instruments came out BEFORE Gjallarhorn got the trials to become +3 all songs. I felt that it was an insult to relic owners that newer instruments were greater than the all songs level of Gjallarhorn. Granted yes, the trials were added AFTERWARDS, but to be fair they should have been added at the same time.

I don't think massacre elegy being Gjallarhorn only would stop people from playing bard. The people that play bard are unique, in the fact that we as bards live vicariously though others. The nature of bard is to buff those around us, we don't have the personal glory of being highest damage dealer, best enfeebler, or best tank. We are there to make the party run more efficiently, our purpose is a pure support role(brd/whm).

I've never seen a DD quit just because they didn't have access to relic weapon skills before the weapons that allowed non relic weapon owners to perform the relic weapon skills, so I don't think a non relic bard would quit either from lack of a Gjallarhorn specific spell. I for one thing Massacre elegy is worthy of being a Gjallarhorn specific spell due to it's potency. It would bring at least something to the instrument, as to not be just a ballad/scherzo/inventory saver instrument. I think it would bring distinction of a bard during battle, like when we see a DD using the relic weapon skill(real relic weapon skill) where as till now we have lacked it.

SE has said before that relics are not meant for everyone, whether or not they have changed this stance remains to be seen. If not everyone is supposed to own a relic, I think it would be unfair to give a reduced powered version of massacre elegy to non relic bards(this is assuming it is added to Gjallarhorn). Comparing it to relic weapons it would be like the owners of the weapon that allows one to perform the relic weapons weapon skill asking for instead of sometimes
3x damage, a lesser degree of 1.5x damage. Gjallarhorn as well as Aegis are both in unique positions in the game, so there may not be accurate comparisons to existing methods. In my opinion the only players that would care about massacre elegy being Gjallarhorn specific are career bards, which if they are career bards I would think they would be
working for Gjallarhorn already or at least thinking about it.

[Creelo]

Requiem has a soft cap on its damage, no? Similar to paeons, you can break a skill barrier and suddenly requiem 7 does 8 damage/tick instead of 7.

Ahhh, this is something I totally forgot about, wasn't thinking about Requiem when it came to potency of songs. Just Elegy/Lullaby/Thren. >.< Oh Requiem...


Something I'm confused about is just before the post by Camate, you disagree with me and claim that Daurdabla is better for bards than Gjallarhorn

Yeah lol, I said before the official Bard's Manifesto post that Daurdabla had much more overall use than Gjallarhorn at the current stage of the game, which is disappointing because of how hard Gjallarhorn is to obtain. I then went on to explain how Gjallarhorn was so lackluster. How is this confusing?

After the official Post from Camate, I said I was shocked because I couldn't believe SE was thinking that Bard's were debuffing with Daurdabla instead of their respective instruments (Since Harps are less accurate than Horns, Daurdabla doesn't provide any bonuses to debuffs, etc.). Gjallarhorn is obviously a better instrument to debuff with compared to all others. I was shocked that SE thought Brds were using a Daurdabla to debuff with and thought that Brds were contesting whether Daurdabla was a better debuff instrument than Gjallarhorn. We all already know that Gjallarhorn is a better debuff instrument, duh?

Not to mention, you can land Elegy and debuffs pretty easily without Gjallarhorn on a majority of the mobs in this game. SE clearly missed the mark when relaying that information to us... <_<




In fact, Camate's comments about gjallarhorn seems to be in direct response to your comments that daurdabla is better. So I don't think he's saying gjallarhorn is underpowered anymore than you were... if you were. I can't really be certain since your 2 posts seem to be in opposition to one another what you're getting at.

First, the bolded doesn't really make any sense. O.o

I never said Daurdabla was a better Debuffing instrument compared to Gjallarhorn. <.<

I said that Daurdabla was a much more useful instrument as a whole compared to Gjallarhorn as of the lvl 90 Cap. The general gist of my reasoning was that Gjallarhorn only really benefits two songs atm: Ballad and Scherzo. Ballads are hardly needed anymore since they're obsolete in Abyssea, and we can get so much refresh/MP outside of Abyssea. Scherzo is such a situational song that it's not really used too much (very useful though when needed), especially because people who don't have a Daurdabla would have to give up a song like March. Thus, it's better to just use Scherzo with Daurdabla, since it can be used as the third Song and potency difference between a Daurdabla's Scherzo and a Gjallarhorn's Scherzo is quite small.

And as I said before, the skill on Gjallarhorn isn't really needed for Debuffs as of now since Brds can easily debuff most mobs without a Gjallarhorn.

Thus, Gjallarhorn is definitely less useful than a Daurdabla at this stage of the game, and that SE should increase its effectiveness (like they slowly have been for the other Relics, not to mention the Aegis buff) by giving Gjallarhorn its own, exclusive and useful song, whatever that may be. Because even if Gjallarhorn receives "All Songs +4" at the lvl 99 Cap, it's still going to be a rather lackluster instrument.

I'm not really saying statements like "Daurdabla > Gjallarhorn for EVERYTHANG!!" Obviously, it's optimal to use both. <.< But Daurdabla is going to offer way more with its Third Song than Gjallarhorn can right now at the lvl 90 Cap, and is much easier to obtain too.

Yay for basically reposting my Gjallarhorn Buff thread OP x.x Hopefully this kinda spells it out for you. <.<

*As for Gjallarhorn buffing a Third Tier of March, this is rather interesting. March III with Gjallarhorn will have more potency rather than being sung with Daurdabla since it has "All Songs +3" and there is more Wind Skill gear than String skill gear currently available. If you have a Daurdabla and are without a Gjallarhorn... it could possibly be better to sing March III as the third buff with Daurdabla due to all the skill on it... Victory March -> Song #2 -> March III I mean. Idk though, we'll see? Probably not? Who knows... Either way, you'll probably be maxing Magical Haste anyways lol. If you can cap Magical Haste without using Gjallarhorn and with Daurdabla, then it'd probably be best to sing March III with Daurdabla anyways. But this would just makes Daurdabla even more of useful than Gjallarhorn! lol

@Jackalman Sometime I'll compare debuffing with Daurdabla vs. a horn like Faerie Piccolo on something resistant to Lullaby, perhaps high-lvl Spectators in Abys. Uleguerand Range. It won't be much testing... but it won't be like 5 casts lol, I'll report back truthfully too since this is something I'm really interested in myself lol My guess though is that they'll either match eachother or the Horn will pull ahead a lil bit with getting less resists.

[Creelo]

That was an awesome post VoiceMemo!

Was talking to a Gjallarhorn Brd, and they made a good point that it'd just be nice for SE to release new songs where the skill on Gjallarhorn was really needed to hit new and meaningful tiers. Really, it'd just be nice for SE to release more songs like that for everyone so we all could get a little more use out of our skill gear, whether we have a Gjallarhorn or not.

[Flionheart]

Skill needs to be relevant. What's the point in releasing AF3+2 when the skill on some of the pieces is effecting 2 songs only, and 2 situational songs at that.

Assuming they're not just pandering to people who are too lazy to get skills at cap that is.

[Creelo]

.@Jackalman Sometime I'll compare debuffing with Daurdabla vs. a horn like Faerie Piccolo on something resistant to Lullaby, perhaps high-lvl Spectators in Abys. Uleguerand Range. It won't be much testing... but it won't be like 5 casts lol, I'll report back truthfully too since this is something I'm really interested in myself lol My guess though is that they'll either match eachother or the Horn will pull ahead a lil bit with getting less resists.

So I just finished up some super basic testing on this! And the results were quite surprising! lol Wondering if I should post this to a new thread since it's a little long, but it's relevant here too... Anyways! For those who don't want to read all the specifics, just look for the big bold statements.

Question: Daurdabla vs. Faerie Piccolo, which wins for landing Foe Lullaby, by extension all debuffs?

Target: Decent Challenge Spectator in Abyssea-Uleguerand Range. (Wanted higher lvl, but no one was there, didn't matter though as you'll soon see lol...)

Hypothesis: Thought the Faerie Piccolo would win by at least a little bit, but wouldn't have been surprised if Daurdabla's +40 Skill made the results more even between the two.

Testing:

Relevant Buffs: Got full Abyssea Stat Buffs along with MM/Perfect Attendance/Rescuer Atmas

Gear: (Didn't change gear from this once I started writing the used data, aside from Daurdabla/Faerie Piccolo)
PDT Kila+2/Genbu's Shield/--/Daurdabla and Faerie Piccolo
Genbu's Kabuto/Twilight Torque/Novia Earring/Brutal Earring
Avalon Breastplate(Chr+7)/Melaco Mittens/Dark Ring(Chr+1)/Dark Ring(Chr+1)
Umbra Cape/Goading Belt/Goliard Trews/Dusk Ledelsens+1

Relevant Stats: Chr 91+64 (from Abyssea Buffs) 326 Wind Skill, 326 String Skill, 326 Singing Skill, +0 M.Acc

Different Samples tested over Lightsday and Darksday (Both Daurdabla/Faerie Piccolo were tested during this phase, so the Day shouldn't really matter. The samples were taken on separate days (Made sure of no overlap in the days).)



Lightsday Samples

Daurdabla - 64 Total Casts
-14 Full Duration - 21.875%
-10 Half Duration - 15.625%
-40 Fully Resisted - 62.5%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-64 Total Casts - 100%

Faerie Piccolo - 57 Total Casts (Wanted to get more casts in, but didn't have as many Resists and Day changed)
-29 Full Duration - 50.88~%
-11 Half Duration - 19.30~%
-17 Fully Resisted - 29.82~%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-57 Total Casts - 100%~


Darksday Samples (Only a measly 20 Total Casts each, I was getting Tired x.x)

Daurdabla - 20 Total Casts
-5 Full Duration - 25%
-2 Half Duration - 10%
-13 Fully Resisted - 65%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-20 Total Casts - 100%

Faerie Piccolo - 20 Total Casts
-10 Full Duration - 50%
-4 Half Duration - 20%
-6 Fully Resisted - 30%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-20 Total Casts - 100%


Conclusions!: The sample sizes are extremely small (would need like 1000+ if we really want truly conclusive evidence) but no one can deny... Those are some pretty big differences in Lullaby success rate. <.<
The Daurdabla is absolutely horrid for debuffing, and the Faerie Piccolo most clearly defeated it when it came to getting a better resist rate. Since a Faerie Piccolo is essentially the same as a lvl 1 Flute when it comes to Debuffs... We can pretty much conclude that...
Yes, a lvl 1 Flute is MUCH more accurate when it comes to Debuffs, compared to a lvl 90 Daurdabla.

And...

The difference between Wind and String Instruments for debuffs is at least equivalent to 40 Skill, and probably much more. (We already knew Wind > String for Debuffs but Wow!)

On the Lightsday Sample (the better samples lol), there was roughly a 30%~ Higher rate of landing Lullabies for their full duration with the Faerie Piccolo and a 5%~ higher rate when it came to landing Half Duration Lullabies. Perhaps most importantly, the Faerie Piccolo had roughly 33% LESS FULLY resisted Lullabies. Honestly, I was kinda surprised to the Faerie Piccolo have a 30%~ Fully Resisted Lullaby rate by itself. But a 62.5% Fully Resisted Lullaby rate for the Daurdabla?!?! <____<

The Darksday Samples were very, very small. I was mostly curious to see how they'd line up to the Lightsday samples, and they actually lined up extremely well for only being 20 Casts Each! O.o Basically, the Faerie Piccolo had 25% more Full Duration Lullabies, 10% more Half Duration Lullabies, and 35% fewer Fully Resisted Lullabies.

The difference in success rate between the two is really quite high, even for such low sample sizes. If they weren't so high, we could've disregarded them.

Interesting side-notes were that I used my actual debuff gear in the beginning, but quickly realized I wasn't gonna really get the data I needed due to not really getting any resists with the Daurdabla and Faerie Piccolo (only did several casts each)... So I scratched those samples, quickly changed my gear to mostly PDT, with as little Chr+ as possible. The other side-note was that Carnage Elegy never got resisted with either the Daurdabla or Faerie Piccolo in my testing gear. I didn't cast it nearly as much as Lullaby of course, but it was kinda interesting to see how easy it was able to land even in a nearly full PDT set... <.<

Future testing?? I definitely could've set myself better for testing this when it came to Atmas and Gear, but I still got results. Future testing would involve larger sample sizes (durrr). Perhaps I could use this little bit of data, and test again on a DC Spectator and play around with my gear to see if I can match a resist rate to the Faerie Piccolo using a Daurdabla. The increase in skill/M. Acc could potentially give us a rough idea of what the true accuracy difference is between Wind Instruments and String Instruments.

The reason why this is all important below. I'm not saying SE should suddenly adjust the accuracy of String Instruments when it comes to Debuffs at all! The difference is quite balanced actually, especially for Stringed Horde Lullaby.


Also in response to your feedback about the seeming lack of power of Gjallarhorn, the development team mentioned that there is a difference in song accuracy between Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, and when casting songs on enemies, Gjallarhorn wins out. During the next version update it will also be possible to further enhance the Gjallarhorn.

Oh, but development team! Why spend roughly 170,000,000 gil on the Gjallarhorn when you can spend 43 gil at the local Music Shop for a lvl 1 Flute that can already land debuffs more consistently than the Daurdabla? :o

I do hope the development team feels silly for that quoted statement. :(

PS: I'll say it again, it was never about Daurdabla vs. Gjallarhorn when it came to debuffs. It's not even really Daurdabla vs. Gjallarhorn for buffs. It's about how easy it is to get a Daurdabla and how much more useful it is overall compared to a Gjallarhorn. Please reread previous posts from the Bard community regarding the lackluster power of Gjallarhorn.

The end! Whew x.x ;)

[Mayoyama]

We have a Job Ability that reduces an area of effect song to a single target. Instead of remodeling songs to be area of effect like someone mentioned, can we expect to see a Job Ability that allows a single target song to expand to an area of effect in a way much like Pianissimo? (I feel that would create less hassle from how we already understand songs like the Preludes and Etudes)

^ This.. seems like a really good idea. I did read someone's suggestion to call it Fortissimo, which would make logical sense. This could potentially adress 2 of the issues Camate mentioned - 1st being preludes being aoe, and 2nd allowing the option of making etudes aoe. Not to mention that everyone likes getting new job abilities (its like getting a present at christmas lol).


Simply put, BRD needs more abilities, and preferably more songs that assist Mages. It's bad when you don't need Ballads due to Atma, so you resort to marching the mages, there should be a fast cast song imo.


I want to feel like buffing the mages is as much of a priority as buffing the DD.

This also is something that has lead me recently to levelling cor... with cor I can at least feel more useful than a proc-and-march biyatch and I can actually give useful buffs to mages other than lolballadinaby. I understand game balance would mean brd buffs for things like fast cast,MAB and pet buffs would probably be scaled down a bit in comparison to the cor equivalents, but would really help spice the job up again. Having the option of being busy with all new buffs for dd, mages and pet jobs (when present) would help return a bit more of the excitement and challenge of the job that has otherwise become rather dull and to be blatently honest sometimes outright boring. It's become a joke with the BRD in my ls that when they apply the 2 buffs to the dds (since mages dont need the ballads) they say 'afk again mbating' coz there really isnt anything else for them to do outside proccing lol.

[Glamdring]

I've just thought of something...as we approach lvl99 why does bard still have the separate "song" paths? Would you foggier that a "grandmaster" bard could wieve a song that boosts and have several effects?

With the Abyssea atma system, we have a basis of what I'm requesting. A song that has 3 effects...1 major, 1 medium, and 1 small effect. For example, rather than simply giving bard Mage ballad 4, SE could give a song that gives effect 1 major refresh, 1 medium conserve mp, and 1 minor MaB. Another song could give ACC major, ATT medium, and 1 crit minor.

I'm not a bard, but this simple change could make bards amazing. Not to mention SE could still keep the "2 song" only model.

the problem with what you suggest is the same problem bards have always had... the other players. See, most players seem to be concerned with only what their character needs, not what the party needs. We only get 1 pianissimo, and even if we got several we can't change the fact that we would be so busy getting all 5 seperate buffs done that we wouldn't have time to sleep, elegy, threnody and finale the mob.

In addition, if we make bard songs multidimensional in effect you run into the same prob as we do with atma, where for your job 1 effect is great, 1 is an "uh... ok" and 1 is usually a "what the hell is that?"

Honestly, this is why I didn't brd in meripos except for very close friends; I'm not interested in doing 90% of the work and still having people bitching that our chain broke on the 123rd kill because I stopped to heal myself from my remaining 30 HP since noone will cure the puller/buffer/sleeper/MP whore. Seriously, all a DDs did in those pts is engage, then AFK; I was lucky if I could even get anyone to 'voke off me in a pick-up pt and lullaby/elegy seem to pull alot of hate considering how many mobs would still came after me even AFTER the DD hit it.

Oh, and good idea looking at the accuracy determination instead of addressing through merits or other gear Devs; tired of having to address faulty elements in game mechanics by sacrificing a needed equipment/merit slot instead of fixing the error. Don't pull on bard what you are doing to pup by making us use our limited resources to fix inate problems with the job's relevant code.

[Covenant]

Not to not pick, but I thought this was a discussion about "manifesto" not necessarily gear choices. But, if career bards are arguing the merit of one over the other I can understand the importance. However, no one commented on my "atma" song idea, where bards could give multiple effects with a single song(maj/minor effects). Is it a crappy idea? Overpowered? Ext icing possibility?

I'm not a career bards, but feel like the single buff path is lame. No matter how strong it is...it will always overwrite itself.

[Retsujo]

It's not so much a bad idea as it is a dev actually responded so people want their ideas heard.

In my opinion, your idea would be pretty beneficial but would be unfair because all other effect enhancement abilities and spells across the other jobs won't get the same treatment.

Now if these tier 3 songs that might be coming out do what I think they're going to do, then I think it might be a little of what you're talking about. I'm thinking if tier 3 songs come out they'll be just as good as tier 1 and 2 combined, and cannot be stacked with the other tiers. That basically gives two buffs in one song, granted it's the same buff.

[Glamdring]

Not to not pick, but I thought this was a discussion about "manifesto" not necessarily gear choices. But, if career bards are arguing the merit of one over the other I can understand the importance. However, no one commented on my "atma" song idea, where bards could give multiple effects with a single song(maj/minor effects). Is it a crappy idea? Overpowered? Ext icing possibility?

I'm not a career bards, but feel like the single buff path is lame. No matter how strong it is...it will always overwrite itself.

Sorry Cov, the gear comments is because I was commenting on 2 posts at once, I was saying I support the devs choice NOT to address the issues on brd through gear but by actually adjusting game mechanics.

In response to your Atma-type song, I simply feel that it is too unwieldy. Also, bard songs do not overwrite eachother, they stack, hence why you always see the comments about "double March" or "Ballad x2" and the like. The arguments actually come up when you try to use 2 different songs instead of doubling whoever's fav song.

[Covenant]

I'm going to throw fake numbers out... If Mage ballad does 1 mp and II does +2 mp...having both gives +3 mp. Or you could mp +2 AND intelligence song...

My suggestion..why not song X that gives +2mp WITH intelligence or other combos. Yes Mage ballad X would be cool by itself, but as we proceed towards lvl 99 ...I think "godmode". The game has already "coded" Atmas, and multi effects spells(Bluemage) why not expand in the final 10 lvls for bard. After all this bard above all other jobs lends itself to party effects.

I think the multi effect paths would make bards once again more desirable...mostly oustide of Abyssea AND bard solo'n.

[Kit_Katz]

We are looking into addressing this.


Another thing I hope you could address that was not mentioned. Currently items that have the "Enhance song duration" effect have a higher priority than using Nightingale+Troubadour (hereafter referred to as N/T.)

To explain further, usually songs overwrite one another based on the duration remaining on the song. But when using N/T then singing a song you are unable to overwrite a song already in effect that was sung with the aforementioned equipment on, even though the new song would have a longer duration. Due to this I am no longer able to fully utalize my N/T merits unless I use them for a fresh set in a zerg or similar instance because my normal gear has the "lengthen duration" effect on it.

[detlef]

While we're on this topic, why do Lullaby merits not affect Foe Lullaby II?

[Asanarama]

If you decide to give us the option of making single-target songs into AoE songs, please don’t do it by adding another job ability. I don’t have room for another macro. Make a smart pianissimo (you might want to change its name) with no cooldown that switches an AoE song to single-target or switches a single-target song to AoE.

I was also thinking how I don’t like that you need a “wait” between pianissimo and your song if you decide to put them in the same macro. This just popped in my head and I haven’t thought it through, but what about ammo-slot equipment that goes with bard instruments? There’s probably a whole bunch of stuff you could do with that, but what I’m thinking is replacing pianissimo/fortissimo with this ammo slot gear. One /equip line instead of a /ja line and a /wait line.

It also occurs to me that if they made preludes and etudes AoE, they’d want them to have longer casting time. On the other hand, then maybe we should have shorter casting time when using pianissimo. In the long run, things would probably be simpler if all buffs were AoE, with one job ability making them single-target (and maybe reducing the casting time). It would take some getting used to, but I think once we did get used to it, it would be much simpler. You’d just have to ask yourself , “Do I want single-target or multi-target?”, without adding, “Okay, then what is this buff like normally and do I need to modify it?”

[Asanarama]

Please don’t make massacre elegy relic-only. Relics are a mistake. Nothing should be set up so such a small % of a game’s population can afford it. That said, people who have put in the enormous effort to get a relic deserve to have it remain totally pimp as the level cap increases (relic horn should have had its +3 to songs trial when the first other +3 instruments came out), but if you do it by making that the only way to get massacre elegy, there will be rioting in the streets.

I really don’t like the phrasing they used when mentioning massacre elegy. I don’t like the idea of limiting things that way. For example, consider any item that only drops from an NM that shows up every few hours to every few days. That method controls the rate at which the item enters the world. I consider that to be a mistake. It should be about controlling the rate at which individual players can obtain items. If a lot of players are willing to put in the effort, then it’s ok for the rate at which that item enters the world to increase. People are putting in the effort and they deserve the reward. The fact that other people are interested in the same item should not make it harder to get. If I want to experience that, I can just pay a visit to the real world. That’s not how I want a game to be. Also, maybe the fact that fewer other people are interested in an item should not make it easier to get. I’m not saying I think everything in the game should be this way, but I wish more of it were. They way they worded the comment about massacre elegy has me worried that they’re going to handle it poorly. Although we might not be able to actually attack each other outside of Ballista and such events, make no mistake; FFXI is very PvP, more so than I care for.

[Asanarama]

We only get 1 pianissimo, and even if we got several we can't change the fact that we would be so busy getting all 5 seperate buffs done that we wouldn't have time to sleep, elegy, threnody and finale the mob. Because of the speed at which we can do our songs now, even outside of abyssea, if they get rid of the cooldown on pianissimo, I actually don’t see this as being much of a problem, except vs opponents that dispel or dispelga a lot.

[detlef]

Please don’t make massacre elegy relic-only. Relics are a mistake. Nothing should be set up so such a small % of a game’s population can afford it. That said, people who have put in the enormous effort to get a relic deserve to have it remain totally pimp as the level cap increases (relic horn should have had its +3 to songs trial when the first other +3 instruments came out), but if you do it by making that the only way to get massacre elegy, there will be rioting in the streets.
I think you have to throw a bone to Ghorn owners. It's been getting kicked around a lot and deserves something unique and powerful.

[Glamdring]

The problem is this as far as massacre being G-horn only, almost all of our other songs are a multi-tier song, with a new tier gained as you level. Massacre is the next logical elegy in the leveling path and consistency would have all bards getting it at about 95-97.

If you want to throw G-horn owners a bone I would suggest a Stun+damage spell, something like Sound Blast as a name and put its damage in the realm of Holy II.

2nd option, "Cacaphony", AoE Raise/Reraise III (consider it an upgrade to Hymnus, specific to the fully upgraded G-horn).

3rd option, "Rally", a song that is cast on a player who has just used a JA (including 2-hour) that expands the effect of the JA to the rest of the party for the remainder of the time-or cast just before the JA is used to MAKE the JA AoE.

4th option, "Bedlam" a song that makes the prey it is cast on run in terror from all party members (like the anima back in Prommy).

5th option, G-horn can hit alliance members with songs, and is the only instrument that can.

Any of those would seem fair to me.

[Flionheart]

The problem is this as far as massacre being G-horn only, almost all of our other songs are a multi-tier song, with a new tier gained as you level. Massacre is the next logical elegy in the leveling path and consistency would have all bards getting it at about 95-97.

If you want to throw G-horn owners a bone I would suggest a Stun+damage spell, something like Sound Blast as a name and put its damage in the realm of Holy II.

2nd option, "Cacaphony", AoE Raise/Reraise III (consider it an upgrade to Hymnus, specific to the fully upgraded G-horn).

3rd option, "Rally", a song that is cast on a player who has just used a JA (including 2-hour) that expands the effect of the JA to the rest of the party for the remainder of the time-or cast just before the JA is used to MAKE the JA AoE.

4th option, "Bedlam" a song that makes the prey it is cast on run in terror from all party members (like the anima back in Prommy).

5th option, G-horn can hit alliance members with songs, and is the only instrument that can.

Any of those would seem fair to me.


Those are all pretty bad ideas.

[VoiceMemo]

Making massacre elegy Gjallarhorn only will not cause rioting of bard.
Any true bard should now be working on Gjallarhorn because of the dynamis changes. Gjallarhorn
is the pinnacle all aspiring bards should shoot for, in my opinion if you don't, means you like another job more than bard.

There are 4 ways to achieve relic, the fast way with gil, the medium way, the slow way with changed dynamis, and luck of the lotto.

First the fast way, IF you were to buy all 14,400 currency, at around 10k each on asura that's around some 144 million gil.

The medium way, is doing dynamis, initial cost 50k and also buying currency. So this way will cost you somewhere between 50k and 144 mil.

The slow way, is just doing dynamis so the cost is 50k(yes I know time is money but if you
have no other ways of making gil this situation works).

The luck way is pretty self explanatory, win mog lotto.

For more insight on dynamis see my dynamis post.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13059-dev1023-Dynamis-Adjustments/page6

Even if the slow way IF you did dynamis 2x a week with some friends that willing to help you get it.(Yes you could get it faster by going every day, or more than 2x a week since it's 24hr entry now, either way this estimate is based off of 104 days of dynamis(52 weeks x 2))(I for one would go nutty if I did dynamis more than 2x a week, and I've done dynamis for 6+ years) It would take around 10 months to 1 year to complete at current drop rate levels. Averaging around 138 currency per run.

Compared to before Gjallarhorn as well as other relics are obtainable to everyone IF you are willing to put the time and effort into it. 14,400 currency is no small feat yes, but people need to think of FFXI in the long term. Anything good in FFXI takes time(even emps), the time needed varies due to gil, availability of help, and playtime.

[Flionheart]

Making massacre elegy Gjallarhorn only will not cause rioting of bard.
Any true bard should now be working on Gjallarhorn because of the dynamis changes. Gjallarhorn
is the pinnacle all aspiring bards should shoot for, in my opinion if you don't, means you like another job more than bard.

There are 4 ways to achieve relic, the fast way with gil, the medium way, the slow way with changed dynamis, and luck of the lotto.

First the fast way, IF you were to buy all 14,400 currency, at around 10k each on asura that's around some 144 million gil.

The medium way, is doing dynamis, initial cost 50k and also buying currency. So this way will cost you somewhere between 50k and 144 mil.

The slow way, is just doing dynamis so the cost is 50k(yes I know time is money but if you
have no other ways of making gil this situation works).

The luck way is pretty self explanatory, win mog lotto.

For more insight on dynamis see my dynamis post.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13059-dev1023-Dynamis-Adjustments/page6

Even if the slow way IF you did dynamis 2x a week with some friends that willing to help you get it.(Yes you could get it faster by going every day, or more than 2x a week since it's 24hr entry now, either way this estimate is based off of 104 days of dynamis(52 weeks x 2))(I for one would go nutty if I did dynamis more than 2x a week, and I've done dynamis for 6+ years) It would take around 10 months to 1 year to complete at current drop rate levels. Averaging around 138 currency per run.

Compared to before Gjallarhorn as well as other relics are obtainable to everyone IF you are willing to put the time and effort into it. 14,400 currency is no small feat yes, but people need to think of FFXI in the long term. Anything good in FFXI takes time(even emps), the time needed varies due to gil, availability of help, and playtime.


There's so much wrong here, I don't even know where to start.

You better have the gear to back up that arrogant attitude.

[Creelo]

Carnage Elegy is already such a strong debuff. I think it'd be great if Massacre Elegy were to be exclusive to Gjallarhorn. It'd be an excellent reason to actually work towards it then other than to have a few extra immediate inventory slots.

Brd got a lot of goodies this update (Horde Lullaby II!!!! @____@), and will probably an even better update at the lvl 99 Cap (March III, MDB- Debuff?). We don't need a bunch of prissy bards whining that about how they don't have Massacre Elegy since they haven't even attempted to work at Gjallarhorn, especially when Carnage Elegy is already so strong (Marcato could possibly enhance its potency too!).

Massacre Elegy would be an excellent way to put a Gjallarhorn Brd a cut above those who lack the Relic. We'll have to wait and see I guess...

[Flionheart]

I have no problem with M.Elegy being a Ghorn only debuff, I have a problem with arrogant people who already have a Ghorn calling out those who don't.

Especially when those who do, still rock an NQ earth staff.

Who honestly has the right to say: "Any true bard should now be working on Gjallarhorn"

or: "if you don't, means you like another job more than bard."

Do you realise how insulting that is to every BRD who doesn't have the time to put into a relic? Those with relics have always been arrogant, and it really offends me when those specific relic users disrespect the weapon/item they've worked on with subpar gear, whilst acting like they are a true <insert job here>

[Glamdring]

Making massacre elegy Gjallarhorn only will not cause rioting of bard.
Any true bard should now be working on Gjallarhorn because of the dynamis changes. Gjallarhorn
is the pinnacle all aspiring bards should shoot for, in my opinion if you don't, means you like another job more than bard.

There are 4 ways to achieve relic, the fast way with gil, the medium way, the slow way with changed dynamis, and luck of the lotto.

First the fast way, IF you were to buy all 14,400 currency, at around 10k each on asura that's around some 144 million gil.

The medium way, is doing dynamis, initial cost 50k and also buying currency. So this way will cost you somewhere between 50k and 144 mil.

The slow way, is just doing dynamis so the cost is 50k(yes I know time is money but if you
have no other ways of making gil this situation works).

The luck way is pretty self explanatory, win mog lotto.

For more insight on dynamis see my dynamis post.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13059-dev1023-Dynamis-Adjustments/page6

Even if the slow way IF you did dynamis 2x a week with some friends that willing to help you get it.(Yes you could get it faster by going every day, or more than 2x a week since it's 24hr entry now, either way this estimate is based off of 104 days of dynamis(52 weeks x 2))(I for one would go nutty if I did dynamis more than 2x a week, and I've done dynamis for 6+ years) It would take around 10 months to 1 year to complete at current drop rate levels. Averaging around 138 currency per run.

Compared to before Gjallarhorn as well as other relics are obtainable to everyone IF you are willing to put the time and effort into it. 14,400 currency is no small feat yes, but people need to think of FFXI in the long term. Anything good in FFXI takes time(even emps), the time needed varies due to gil, availability of help, and playtime.

not entirely true there, you can get your Gjallerhorn to the 4th stage in a year IF noone else is going for a relic anything so all currency is yours in your group AND you are halfway decent as a group at proccing. Then there are the extra stages post Dynamis. At currrent timetable Ghorn should be up to level 9 by the end of that year, so there is some more work to do.

[VoiceMemo]

There's so much wrong here, I don't even know where to start.

You better have the gear to back up that arrogant attitude.

I don't see how there is anything wrong with my post, I specifically said "in my opinion" which you neglected to bold out. Am I not entitled to having my opinion? Am I forcing my will on ALL brds? Is not relic one of the measures of the extent of a job?(IE Gajallarhorn being one if not the best instrument, Mythic/emps may be other measures)

And if you think that I got my Gjallarhorn though some ponzi scheme and used ls members, I don't think you read my dynamis link. I still do dynamis with members to help them with their relics 2 years after I've completed mine, dynamis(even the changes, weps, armor) hold absolutely nothing that I would like to get, yet I am there giving up my time to help others and leading the runs.

I think I am more than qualified to speak upon Gjallarhorn issues since I do own one as well as bard issues since I've been Main bard for 7+ years, it's rare that I'm NOT bard. The only times I'm not are 1) sub relvling for new caps, 2)THing on THF, 3)WHM when no other WHM is available.

With the current dynamis changes is relic not accessible to anyone that has 50K for a one time
fee key item? Yes it will take time, but anything good in FFXI takes time.

All I have done is stated scenarios and my opinion, if that is wrong then virtually every post in
the forums should be deleted.

[VoiceMemo]

I have no problem with M.Elegy being a Ghorn only debuff, I have a problem with arrogant people who already have a Ghorn calling out those who don't.

Especially when those who do, still rock an NQ earth staff.

Who honestly has the right to say: "Any true bard should now be working on Gjallarhorn"

or: "if you don't, means you like another job more than bard."

Do you realise how insulting that is to every BRD who doesn't have the time to put into a relic? Those with relics have always been arrogant, and it really offends me when those specific relic users disrespect the weapon/item they've worked on with subpar gear, whilst acting like they are a true <insert job here>

I assume this is targeted at me and you looked me up on ffxiah.

The reason why I still use a NQ earth staff is because I'm a 97 woodworker. I REFUSE to go the easy route of buying a Terra staff. I vowed once I started woodworking that I would sign my own.

The 2nd reason is priority. Gil wise I scrimped and saved ever bit of gil to make sure I obtained
Gjallarhorn, as when I started funding glasses were still 1 mil gil each. So if your saying
Terra Staff > Gjallarhorn in priority then so be it that is your view. To me Gjallarhorn was more
important than a Terra staff, and it's not like I have ANY trouble landing elegy with max skill on mobs that are not immune to elegy.

I personally turned down a sha'ir manteel when it was still 10 mil + because I decided that I wanted to get a cashmere cloth and try my luck at a HQ. I hold true to my ethics that I set for myself in game and refuse to go the easy route.

If you don't have time for dynamis you make the time. I've always said if something is important to you, you make the time. If you can't make 2hrs to play dynamis, how can you make other events? Virtually every event in FFXI takes at least 2hrs or more to accomplish anything meaningful.

Again you leave out the part where I say "in my opinion". It's like only YOUR opinion matters, what about mine?

[VoiceMemo]

not entirely true there, you can get your Gjallerhorn to the 4th stage in a year IF noone else is going for a relic anything so all currency is yours in your group AND you are halfway decent as a group at proccing. Then there are the extra stages post Dynamis. At currrent timetable Ghorn should be up to level 9 by the end of that year, so there is some more work to do.

I should have clarified that this was to get to base 75 Gjallarhorn. But in reality with the dynamis changes of 24hr entry it's not hard to complete all the trails to 90 Gjallarhorn in ust a few more days. As you can pop multiple Jeuno, Windy and Bard Attest nm in one run. If progression holds the next trials would be kill the animated horns X amount of times.

[Flionheart]

You use an NQ earth staff and you have a Ghorn. You are essentially everything bad about relic holders.

Stop with the arrogance, and sort your shit out before you start pointing fingers.

You don't deserve that Ghorn, when you don't even have the basic BRD gear necessary.

[VoiceMemo]

You play your way, I play mine. I really don't understand why MY gear should bother you so. If i could blist you here I would but there is no such function. You are like some of the people on asura that are close minded and like to meddle in other people's gear choices.

In all my posts I only stated MY opinion, I didn't tell you that you MUST have Gjallarhorn or any other gear. My opinion is my own and it is my right to state it.

[Flionheart]

And in my opinion you aren't a true BRD because you've shown you lack the knowledge to gear it correctly.

[VoiceMemo]

Answer me this then, why would I need Terra staff vs NQ staff when I have no trouble whatsoever landing elegy. What other benefit would Terra staff have for a Gjallarhorn bard that has no trouble landing elegy.

The only benefit elemental staves are for earth based spells which I have no trouble landing with the combined wind/singing skill that Gjallarhorn boosts.

And Yes your opinion is your own which that is that. You think I'm not a true bard, and the same goes for me. I don't think of you as a very good bard either from your lack of knowledge on how wind/singing skill is factored BEFORE elemental staves.

[Flionheart]

Answer me this then, why would I need Terra staff vs NQ staff when I have no trouble whatsoever landing elegy. What other benefit would Terra staff have for a Gjallarhorn bard that has no trouble landing elegy.

The only benefit elemental staves are for earth based spells which I have no trouble landing with the combined wind/singing skill that Gjallarhorn boosts.

And Yes your opinion is your own which that is that. You think I'm not a true bard, and the same goes for me. I don't think of you as a very good bard either from your lack of knowledge on how wind/singing skill is factored BEFORE elemental staves.

>Implying I don't understand and wasn't mocking you for the fact that you refused to get a Sha'ir manteel when you knew how superior it was because you have some retarded ethical code based on crafting.

You do realise a Sha'ir manteel currently is more effective than a Ghorn right? Do you even have relevant atma or fast cast gear?

[VoiceMemo]

You still haven't answered my question of why would I need Terra staff vs NQ staff when I have no trouble whatsoever landing elegy. What other benefit would Terra staff have for a Gjallarhorn bard that has no trouble landing elegy.

Answer my question first if you would like an answer to yours.

[Flionheart]

The thing is you never had a Terra's staff, before or after the Ghorn. That shows how little you care about the job.

And you still wouldn't have one even if at 95 cap you needed one. Your entire arrogant post falls on its face when you don't care enough about the job to get optimal gear in all slots. (Especially when it's easily accessible)

[VoiceMemo]

Whatever you'll think what you want, I'm done with this conversation you can have the last word.

[Flionheart]

Thanks. Try not to be arrogant next time and we won't have a problem.

[detlef]

Here's food for thought. Obviously Terra's is better than Earth Staff. You can call someone out on that if you like. But then the logical extension is, do you have an earth macc magian staff done? If you don't, then doesn't it make you a hypocrite to call someone out on the Earth Staff? Same logic applies, if you don't think you need the extra macc on the magian staff then how can you call somebody out for not having Terra's?

Now, I don't think it's right to have a ghorn and be rocking an Earth Staff, but at the same time I don't think it was right to settle for a Terra's Staff when there was something better out there. But that's just me. I'm always working to perfect my gear.

[Flionheart]

Here's food for thought. Obviously Terra's is better than Earth Staff. You can call someone out on that if you like. But then the logical extension is, do you have an earth macc magian staff done? If you don't, then doesn't it make you a hypocrite to call someone out on the Earth Staff? Same logic applies, if you don't think you need the extra macc on the magian staff then how can you call somebody out for not having Terra's?

Now, I don't think it's right to have a ghorn and be rocking an Earth Staff, but at the same time I don't think it was right to settle for a Terra's Staff when there was something better out there. But that's just me. I'm always working to perfect my gear.

Which would be a fine rebuttal to me if I made a sweeping post in a thread saying "If you don't have a terra's staff you're not a true BRD".

And on the point, yes I do.

You can gear how you like, but when you start acting like an arrogant prick because you have a relic, and others don't, you'd better be damn perfect.

[Rearden]

If you were a real BRD you'd have a ToM Earth MACC +5 stave.

[Glamdring]

better idea, can we use a kirin's staff so we can use just 1 staff to get things done? Don't we have enough gear to be swapping with all our instruments? Granted, not if you have G-horn and Daurdaubla

[Flionheart]

If you were a real BRD you'd have a ToM Earth MACC +5 stave.

Only before you had a Ghorn.

[Retsujo]

If you were a real BRD it would be the 1700s and you would be a part of a traveling caravan, singing in rhyme with your troupe for some gold pieces as you travel the lands.

/Thread.

[detlef]

Which would be a fine rebuttal to me if I made a sweeping post in a thread saying "If you don't have a terra's staff you're not a true BRD".

And on the point, yes I do.

You can gear how you like, but when you start acting like an arrogant prick because you have a relic, and others don't, you'd better be damn perfect.

Oh, I wasn't trying to defend anybody who would have an "any committed BRD should have or be working toward Ghorn." That's an absurd statement. Even today people don't have the time or resources to finish. And I wouldn't blame anybody for not starting when you look at how marginal an upgrade it is at this time. And obviously I do believe that if you have a Ghorn, you should have truly excellent gear to support it. To me, it doesn't matter if my Kubera's +2 won't have any visible decrease in resists; it's better than Terra's for debuffing. If this Ghorn owner is using an Earth Staff because you want to craft your own Terra's then FINISH YOUR WOODWORKING.

I just don't like it when someone criticizes another person's AH profile while hiding his own equipment history.

[Flionheart]

Oh, I wasn't trying to defend anybody who would have an "any committed BRD should have or be working toward Ghorn." That's an absurd statement. Even today people don't have the time or resources to finish. And I wouldn't blame anybody for not starting when you look at how marginal an upgrade it is at this time. And obviously I do believe that if you have a Ghorn, you should have truly excellent gear to support it. To me, it doesn't matter if my Kubera's +2 won't have any visible decrease in resists; it's better than Terra's for debuffing. If this Ghorn owner is using an Earth Staff because you want to craft your own Terra's then FINISH YOUR WOODWORKING.

I just don't like it when someone criticizes another person's AH profile while hiding his own equipment history.

My gear isn't perfect, but if I had a Ghorn I guarantee you that it would be


If you were a real BRD it would be the 1700s and you would be a part of a traveling caravan, singing in rhyme with your troupe for some gold pieces as you travel the lands.

/Thread.

>Implying I don't do that

[detlef]

Fair enough. Back on topic, it's a bit annoying that we won't get Lightning Carol II until 99, as if it were something that would break the game in the wrong hands at 95.

[Babekeke]

A real BRD would have got Mandau instead.

[Creelo]

Fair enough. Back on topic, it's a bit annoying that we won't get Lightning Carol II until 99, as if it were something that would break the game in the wrong hands at 95.

Yar, looks like we aren't gonna get Light/Dark Carol II. It's not really a big deal, but it makes me sad for whatever reason... ._.

I miss the days when we'd get a new song every lvl lol

[Flionheart]

Yar, looks like we aren't gonna get Light/Dark Carol II. It's not really a big deal, but it makes me sad for whatever reason... ._.

I miss the days when we'd get a new song every lvl lol

I do too. They need to have a healthy mix of upgrades and new songs, and the carols are powerful songs that really shouldn't be skipped over imo.

[Yinnyth]

They're saving a lot for what they call "merit adjustments". It's quite possible they intend to make light and dark carol into meritable spells, along with barlightra and bardarkra.

[Vyane]

anyone want to help me get mages ballad? im a bastok hume on pheonix

[saevel]

You know, fck it, BRD is the master of buffing people, so allow them to give three buffs each. Make the third buff unlock-able at 90+.

[Babekeke]

You know, fck it, BRD is the master of buffing people, so allow them to give three buffs each. Make the third buff unlock-able at 90+.

It is already! (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Daurdabla_%2890%29)

[Camate]

I need a good song to pump up my Monday bards!

In exchange for some good jams (which I know you will deliver), I bring you some fun info. In the upcoming version update we will be reducing the recast times for Pianissimo and Tenuto from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. This is not reflected on the test server, but will be in once the update goes live.

[Urthdigger]

PIANISSIMO ALL THE SONGS!

Could make giving specific songs to key members a bit more useful now.

[Dmer]

Thank you. With all the song casting time reduction on AF3 and atmas, we have had to waste that benefit when using pianissimo back to back.

[Flionheart]

I need a good song to pump up my Monday bards!

In exchange for some good jams (which I know you will deliver), I bring you some fun info. In the upcoming version update we will be reducing the recast times for Pianissimo and Tenuto from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. This is not reflected on the test server, but will be in once the update goes live.

Nice :) Thanks Camate

[Zhronne]

I need a good song to pump up my Monday bards!

In exchange for some good jams (which I know you will deliver), I bring you some fun info. In the upcoming version update we will be reducing the recast times for Pianissimo and Tenuto from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. This is not reflected on the test server, but will be in once the update goes live.
That was a really fast way to react to player base's requests, I like it! :D

[Camate]

Here I am...my day almost done and no one recommended any fresh beats to listen to while I work. :(

Need to make a FFXI bard room on turntable.fm

[Economizer]

no one recommended any fresh beats

Who needs fresh beats, when you can always revisit Distant Worlds?

[Camate]

Who needs fresh beats, when you can always revisit Distant Worlds?




So nostalgic! Man...I still remember the day I beat CoP, so so long ago.

[Rakshaka]

Distant worlds house style!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWjp284mSLg

[Mizuharu]

Kinda disappointed no BRDs thought of this video for Camate's BRD music needs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so46BU_Hm-M

[DebbieGibson]

So nostalgic! Man...I still remember the day I beat CoP, so so long ago.

I went to that ffxi concert, and I didn't even recognize the cutscene songs haha.

[Sekundes]

Here I am...my day almost done and no one recommended any fresh beats to listen to while I work. :(

Need to make a FFXI bard room on turntable.fm

I'm kinda surprised at the lack of music, particularly in a brd thread.

Perhaps it'd be helpful to post what kinda music you like, or don't like to give people ideas.

For now I'll post FFXI related since that's far more likely to be within your taste and at least your Tuesday can have some music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtI4XE7Pwr0&

[Mayoyama]

Hey Camate, why not just tell your boss to get you a copy of the distant worlds concert CDs to listen to? I really like the music on those, particularly the black-cover one. That way you can feel all nostalgic as you listen to all the music from the classic FF games too :)

[CrystalWeapon]

Here's one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJHBrt4FgOU)

Here's another one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEcYb0dzxg)

Yet another (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkmOqQiDMEo)

Victory Theme from my sig :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NsnLfIAcs)

I'm not sure what your tastes are so I'm not sure what you like to listen to my moogle compadre.

Megaman is more your style?

Megaman 3 vocalized (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_gOl1JnNtU)

Megaman 2 opening with lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_7rmGlo-1U)

Several Megaman themes done in mario paint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=djkmY3bffbE)

If you're a fan of zelda

Zelda in mario paint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-PgmzgiZI&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_83192)

If you get in trouble for watching all this at work, I didn't do it...

A tiny bit of amv hell just for good measure. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOCJZDqtvNo#t=00m41s)

[Bulrogg]

@Camate

Zach Deputy = Caribbean Soul-Ninja Bard (http://www.youtube.com/user/zachdeputy)

His music does a body good.


and for the bards out there.... Greg Pattillo - Fluteboxin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfrKqFp0Zg)

[Shenul]

Here's something unique and Final Fantasy related for you to gnaw on, Camate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxc5QCpEOJo

[Flionheart]

Kinda disappointed no BRDs thought of this video for Camate's BRD music needs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so46BU_Hm-M

That was great! :)

[Ryanx]

yo Camate is there going to be another set of missions/story line added on to game?

[Xellith]

yo Camate is there going to be another set of missions/story line added on to game?

If its going to take them THREE DAMN YEARS to fully release the entire content of said expansion then id rather they not bother. >.>

I dont remember over half of the wings of the goddess missions because it was so stop-start-stop-start-stop-start that I pretty much forgot everything about it. I did something in the castle vhalz last I checked and some demon was there and he did some paralyze thing and then I warped with some other elvaan dude.

So retarded when you have to spend YEARS doing one particular expansion - not because you dont want to do it - but because you arnt allowed to do it.

[Mizuharu]

I remember all the story lines. Flawlessly. o_o And yet I always seem to forget what day of the week it is... But that's not why I came here! I thought Camate might check back here so I thought I'd post more FFXI remixes.

Aht Urhgan Pants (remix of town theme) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXNG6IQKx1k&feature=related)
Ballista Ballistics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRwAEImJEU&feature=related)

... Bah! All the music on my iPod isn't on youtube! I very well might have to upload them myself... ~.~

[Alaik]

That was great! :)

No joke Mizu. I don't know how you found it, but I want you to know somewhere in Texas, while a paramedic is thumping chest and pushing epi on a cardiac arrest, this is in his earbuds now.

EDIT: Didn't quote Flion's quote, but it's to the guy who posted the video, not Flion.

[Camate]

Awesome! Thanks for all the jams bards! Lots of good stuff :)

[Karbuncle]

Some of my favorite FFXI songs are the remixes done by the Star Onions:

Sanctuary of ZI'tah (Star Onions) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wea0SMMrSgU&playnext=1&list=PL8642F9C8D122FF4D)

Gustaberg (Star Onions) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfWB7sirrU)

"Assault Theme" (Star Onions) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJkGuaoxmAw&feature=related
)


Theres also this from the Black Mages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jh89VELCo4

and another version (not BLM): (Spoilers in this video FYI)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVYhcXmXSB0

I like the second one better, Nostalgiabomb, Dunno why, Distant Worlds always makes me tear up...

Edit:

Non Final Fantasy related?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw&feature=player_embedded#!

[Creelo]

This is my personal favorite tune!! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Very emotional piece... :(

[Karbuncle]

This is my personal favorite tune!! :D

RickRoll

Very emotional piece... :(

Save people the trouble :3

[Mizuharu]

Wasn't going to click on it because I was just skimming through before getting ready to level NPC, then I saw Karbuncle said it was a RickRoll...

...
...
...
... /click

[Covenant]

What a silly waste of job discussion space. Those last replies should have went into general discussion and has nothing to do with bard.

[Karbuncle]

What a silly waste of job discussion space. Those last replies should have went into general discussion and has nothing to do with bard.

Check Page 10. All of these posts are in line with a Rep response. If you wanted the Discussion to continue about BRD, try adding something other than a complaint.

[Ciecle]

I dont know if anyone's noticed yet, but there are also 2 other 'new' songs that the dev's havent talked about yet...

Chocobo Hum (Bar-paralyze)
and
Cactuar Fugue (Bar-gravity)

I say 'new' because they're currently not in the old spell list, but they are on the test server... i'm thinking this may be the case of 'Banishga III and Banish IV' where they were going to be implemented, but never got around...

[Reain]

I think you may be right. If you do /recast "Chocobo Hum" or /recast "Cactuar Fugue" on a normal server it doesn't come up with a command error. They may already exist but were never given scrolls or added to bard mob's spell list. I think the devs enjoy paralyze owning playable characters.

[Covenant]

@ Karbuncle, just because he's a rep doesn't mean he can derail the discussion with idle chatter. "what music people like" IS a general discussion topic. Just like when people talk about gear choices... This topic was "manifesto" discussion. NOT being a bard I wanted to see what people thought of actual/wishful abilities and the "future" of the bard job. Not musical likes.

Not that this will make any sense realistically, but what if bards could equip "musical instruments" like melee weapons and strike mobs...with an additional sound? For example, the bells..could "ring" as they strike. I also don't mean "fun" weapons, but musical instruments that actually cause good damage.

[Creelo]

@ Karbuncle, just because he's a rep doesn't mean he can derail the discussion with idle chatter. "what music people like" IS a general discussion topic. Just like when people talk about gear choices... This topic was "manifesto" discussion. NOT being a bard I wanted to see what people thought of actual/wishful abilities and the "future" of the bard job. Not musical likes.

Not that this will make any sense realistically, but what if bards could equip "musical instruments" like melee weapons and strike mobs...with an additional sound? For example, the bells..could "ring" as they strike. I also don't mean "fun" weapons, but musical instruments that actually cause good damage.

I see where you're going with that (Edward from FFIV!!! <3), but do you really think they'd implement something like that now? :/

They already have similar fun event weapons like that. So let's be realistic, that's way more than likely not going to happen.

Personally I think SE should look into fixing up Pining Nocturne. The fact that it can't be stacked with a Whm/Rdm's Addle spell just isn't like Brd at all. I always liked fact that Brd could always add to others with their debuffs (Ex. Carnage Elegy adds to someone casting Slow on the same Mob, Threnodies stack with Ninja spells, Requiem adds another DoT (when the mob isn't immune lolol...)).

I hardly doubt that if Addle/Pining Nocturne would stack it would be all that groundbreaking, so why can't it stack like all other Brd Songs? I really hope SE looks into fixing this.

[Glamdring]

I dont know if anyone's noticed yet, but there are also 2 other 'new' songs that the dev's havent talked about yet...

Chocobo Hum (Bar-paralyze)
and
Cactuar Fugue (Bar-gravity)

I say 'new' because they're currently not in the old spell list, but they are on the test server... i'm thinking this may be the case of 'Banishga III and Banish IV' where they were going to be implemented, but never got around...

Hum's been arround forever, it's that song you get from chocobo digging that noone has. Scroll is r/ex so it's never sold.

[Karbuncle]

Hum's been arround forever, it's that song you get from chocobo digging that noone has. Scroll is r/ex so it's never sold.

(chocobo hum: ) Has it? I checked Wiki and FFXIAH (which has a database of items not even in the game) And I can't find Chocobo Hum listed on either...

Can you show me a page or something you get this info? Because the first thing i was going to do when you said that was gear up my Digger Chocobo and go learn that spell, but there is absolutely no info on it anywhere.

Source please :D


@ Karbuncle, just because he's a rep doesn't mean he can derail the discussion with idle chatter.

Its more like, answering a question. Not a discussion! Thats simply my opinion. Besides, Its over now :) (and this thread was dead anyway)

[Flionheart]

Hum's been arround forever, it's that song you get from chocobo digging that noone has. Scroll is r/ex so it's never sold.

No it hasn't.

[Yinnyth]

Hum has been in the dats forever, along with meteor (in scroll form). To the best of my knowlege, they just never added a way to obtain either.

[Retsujo]

Non Final Fantasy related?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw&feature=player_embedded#!

Personally I'd go with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwEv38AIPE

[Reain]

I was testing what levels were required for the new songs.

Chocobo Hum 52
Cactuar Fugue 58
Horde Lullaby II 92
Ice Carol II 93
Pining Nocturne 95

Horde Lullaby II and Pining Nocturne have their levels switched on the test server from what was posted here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13085-dev1024-Job-Adjustments

It looks likes Hum and Fugue are old and in the spell list similar to banish4/banishga3.

[Thala]

So what happened to our Requiem revamp? Was in the manifesto and mentioned in the community rep post, but not a word about it in the update notes. What gives!?

[Creelo]

So what happened to our Requiem revamp? Was in the manifesto and mentioned in the community rep post, but not a word about it in the update notes. What gives!?

CLEARLY, Requiem landing on ANYTHING worthwhile would just simply be too overpowered.

Amirite, or amirite?

[detlef]

So to confirm:

-Gjallarhorn (95) requires killing Animated Horn x10 for 2 CHR and 5 Singing/Wind skill.
-Daurdabla (95) requires 1500 Heavy Metal Plates for 6 seconds of additional song duration. At least that's what I assume based on dat mines (actual item description is exactly the same as 90 version).

I am a bit discouraged.

[Flionheart]

CLEARLY, Requiem landing on ANYTHING worthwhile would just simply be too overpowered.

Amirite, or amirite?



BRD would solo everything with that kind of power, clearly.

/sigh

[Urat]

BRD would solo everything with that kind of power, clearly.

/sigh

Actually, as anything red mage have shown, bard's access to a non-interruptable massive +speed bonus, and our exceptionally easy to make +12% move speed feet, both give us the ability to do DoT kiting very easily.

Jut saying, it COULD theoretically abused if dev's accidentally let it go too far. :|

I think what bard really needs atm is something for the rangers and for the mages. Ballad is nice now, but anywhere it's applicable it's pointless. Meds in voidatch and atmas in abyssea give mages damn near infinite mp.

I'm thinking bard needs a macc+ song, which would also be super super awesome to put on ourselves, and a ranged attack+ song. Maybe even a magic attack bonus song as well? :D

Also, obviously the strength of regain isn't as much as it was made out to be, considering other jobs have gained access to regain spells and whatnot. Maybe bard could get a regain song at some time? I think that might be a little bit greedy though, considering how strong double march is :x

[Creelo]

Actually, as anything red mage have shown, bard's access to a non-interruptable massive +speed bonus, and our exceptionally easy to make +12% move speed feet, both give us the ability to do DoT kiting very easily.

Jut saying, it COULD theoretically abused if dev's accidentally let it go too far. :|


Brb, gonna go solo content that matters (Aka: Voidwatch) with Requiem.