Are alternative payment options being considered?

[Runespider]

I and I'm sure many others are waiting for some kind of communication from Square in this "era of communication" as to whether new payment options are a possibility or are even being considered.

If Square are not considering it and are going to ignore the outcry can we be told this so we can make the best of the options we have been given? (or make choices accordingly). Please just stop ignoring us.

If no alternative payment options are going to be offered I want to try sort out what I'm going to do and I really don't appreciate being ignored and made to wait this way, especially since I have paid for 5 accounts for the last 5-6 years and have never missed a payment. Can I and other loyal customers get a little bit of customer service here? I'm not asking for the world, just a word as to if new payment options are a possibility to make me waiting have any point at all.

Please don't ignore us, the vast majority of us are loyal and long time subscribers to your service and the few that abused chargeback should not lead to us being treated so badly as a whole.

Just tell us if there is a possibility of any alternatives or not, as I said if not we can make decisions accordingly but waiting and being ignored is just making everyone more and more angry.

[RAIST]

Thanks Runespider for posting this. Not sure if we will be able to keep it on the front page so it's continually staring them in the face, but it would be nice if we could. Gonna past the last response we got from Matt here, just in case some haven't seen it:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090

Greetings all,

We wanted to take a moment to let you know that we are aware of the comments and discussions taking place regarding the new payment procedures not only on the official forum, but on the community sites, as well.

While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we do want to inform you that improving the payment processing options are still a part of an ongoing process. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.

[Mordanthos]

it took like, 10 minutes to apply a card to the 3D thing, get over it and figure it out, its not hard, and it works fine.

[RAIST]

it took like, 10 minutes to apply a card to the 3D thing, get over it and figure it out, its not hard, and it works fine.

Not sure if this is directed at SE or the OP. In the event it is for the OP, I will hazard a guess you aren't up to speed on just what the problem is, so will try to provide a recap:

Only the JP region is getting to keep the 3DS direct bill option...everyone else is getting forced off to either charge their cards thorugh the seemingly risky Click&Buy or set up a way to cover it with Crysta. Because of C&B's issues in the past, some financial institutions are flat out blocking their transactions, others don't trust them. In some cases, C&B themselves won't handle transactions in certain regions. Likewise, SE is not providing Crysta as an option in some regions. We've already discovered that people in and around Australia are being blocked from BOTH options...but they've been able to pay in the past through the POL's 3DS system which, again, is only getting extended to the JP clients at the moment.

So in short, the direction SE is taking with the transfer that will be changing the billing options after Aug.31st is extending the existing payment option to just the JP clients, denying it to everyone else and forcing them to use methods that for some are simply blocked or otherwise untrusted and not desired. In some cases it is completely rendering some currently paying customers ANY method to pay SE and is therefore forcing a closure of their accounts.

[Puck]

Raist covered it pretty well. People aren't upset because the account transfer involves a few minutes of extra time to set up. The outrage stems from being forced to make an agreement with a 3rd party (ClickandBuy), the reputability of that 3rd party, the fact that many financial institutions block transfers to that 3rd party, and many other complications involving players from other regions.

For those that can't do business with ClickandBuy, there's Crysta, though many players are also unable to purchase it. Even if they could, it cannot be purchased in exact amounts, forcing players to spend more than they need to due to always having an unused remainder of Crysta for a long period of time.

The fact that JP players don't have to deal with any of that because they can still make direct payments to SE and buy Crysta in exact amounts is rubbing salt in a fresh open wound. Hence, further outrage. While a small population says they will quit after this month due to protest or annoyance, a much larger number will be forced to quit against their will due to one or more of the conditions already mentioned.

[Knives]

I would also like to add that they need to adjust SEIDs to allow players to personally unlink PlayOnline IDs now, in addition to alternative methods of payment for the monthly fees. This is causing a lot of issues as well.

[Runespider]

The current options they are giving us are terrible and rushed, Click&Buy are considered a bad company by many banks and charges from them on your card/bank can lead to your own banks automated fraud system freezing your account (would you like to have to ring your bank/cc company every month to unfreeze your account?). Crysta being buyable in block amounts only (like microsoft points on Xboxlive) is totally lazy and leaves a sour taste in your mouth every time you would do it since you have to keep overpaying. Both of these methods are unnaceptable, even moreso given we have been given a better serivce since the creation of FFXI, but now after sticking with the company for many years we get garbage. The thing that makes it more upsetting is the JP players get far far better options to pay than us, totally unfair.

Regardless as I said in my initial post, what I really want is some word as to whether things are going to change or not...cause right now I'm just waiting, if nothing is going to change tell us and we can deal with what we gotta do. I'm getting more and more annoyed at waiting and thinking that my account could be closed and I'll not even be able to post on this forum at that point. If they won't change these horrible options I'll consider using what they are offering but I'm not sure how long the sour taste in my mouth over them will hasten my desire to end my XI career.

You can only push a playerbase so far, addicted we maybe but there is a limit.


it took like, 10 minutes to apply a card to the 3D thing, get over it and figure it out, its not hard, and it works fine.

I setup a verified by visa thing long ago, this has nothing to do with that. This is a whole 100x worse thing they are offering, if you think this is about 3D secure card accounts you are going to have a big suprise next month when you can't login anymore due to the payment systems totally changing and you haven't set it up. Also you won't be able to post on this forum at that point either cause your account will be closed.

This isn't about changing your account to a Square enix account, lots of us did that. This is about the fact you now have to totally change how you pay for FFXI on that account, this is new stuff and a lot of people still don't know there accounts will close next month cause they have yet to set it up. The way you paid for FFXI for the last howevermanyyears is now no good and you gotta pick a new payment system, and the options are terrible.

[RAIST]

something for SE to consider in this decision. If they aren't already aware of something recently changing with C&B's regulatory status, they may want to contact the FSA for more answers:

May have stumbled on something about C&B. There might actually be a specific reason why some financial institutions are rejecting them, just haven't been able to get further details as it looks like the site I was in just hit a maintenance window while I was on it.

Click&Buy is stating they are authorised and regulated by the FSA UK:

ClickandBuy International Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom. (Register Number: 454127)
http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/help/pages/04505.html&bereich=surfer

So out of curiosity I went to pull up their reports on them, but can't get any real info on them just yet as it looks like they've started stopping some webapps for maintenance or something while I was browsing. This particular one went offline just after I pulled it up, but the first page from my search was still in my cached pages so I was able to grab at least their basic info:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/register/index.shtml
searched on firm registration number: 454127



Basic details for:
454127 - ClickandBuy International Limited

Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 01/07/2011
Tied Agent:
Undertakes Insurance Mediation:
Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:
Address: Lincoln House
137/143 Hammersmith Road
London
W14 0QL

Phone:
Fax:
Email:
Website:
44 020 7605 0670
44 020 7751 1848
No e-mail supplied
www.clickandbuy.com

Notices:
Other information: The firm now has an e-money record. Please check the e-money link for more information.

Clicked the e-money link and that's when pages started coming up as unavailable. Guess I hit it right when they were taking things down.

Interesting that their basic info states they are not authorised. Which is a little concerning as they are still claiming on their site that they are authorised.

When you go to the FSA's detail on status entries, it simply states

No longer authorised
A firm is no longer allowed to carry out certain types of business that we regulate.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Register/use/firm_status/index.shtml

Which makes me even more curious about just what they are no longer authorized to do, and why. Wish I could get at the reports to get more info.

Edit: forwarded this to SE through the portal, and included a link to this thread as well
<crosses fingers>

[Panthera]

I've said it before, I'll say it again here.

SE will probably make an announcement of some kind on Monday. Hopefully, they won't bury it under a sticky you gotta dig through.

Try to see things from their side. This is a game, but it's also a business. They have stockholders to answer to, and they have to keep a solid profit margin. It costs money just to bill people. They have to do a cost analysis and see what would work out best for them. ... I don't think they had predicted this total $#!+ storm. So now they have to make calls, have long meetings, and rethink things. It won't happen instantly, it takes time. They're not politicians; if they promise something, it had better damn well happen, so they can't just make big talk about PayPal and Visa unless they can actually make it happen.

I'm not saying,"Just pay the shady company and buy too much Christa. It's just your money and/or Credit Card info, stop QQing." I am saying give them enough time to come back to us with real solutions that solve our problems in a satisfactory manner that they can deliver on without failure.

I, Panthera, hereby declare a moratorium on any new threads including--but not limited to--Billing, Credit Cards, ClickandBuy, Payspan, Christa, PayPal, JP favoritism, and the like. Feel free to vent, but please use existing threads; there's only two dozen of them. I further call for a mass, permanent black-listing of any persons who do not respect other player's right to be treated fairly and with respect as it relates to billing. They are unworthy of your time and attention--and that's ultimately what they want; deny them. I sincerely hope this works out best for us all. If not, it was a good run anyway.

[Rosina]

This isn't the first time SE had to deal with this.

when ffxiv went live similar outburst happen. Then subsided after people figued stuff out.

So far my b/f signed up for C&B and had no issues. And he is of the mind set that if C&B does do something he can just cancle the credit card. Not the first time he did so. (long story)

Also SE does not regulate what country has what services. They can offer, but it is up to the region to take up said offer. Like not all countries have crysta. That is the fault of the contries.

Also the Crysta tin foil hat thinking is really getting outa hand. Learn how to take advantage of said system instead of moaning the "i'm forced to pay more to keep up crysta while having extra crysta I can't use" Kinda dumb sorry. You need crysta in your pot to purchase additional services such as extra content ID for characters.

If they do get more options, do not think it was you guys who caused the change, it woulda been a combination of both ffxi and ffxiv player bases.

[Knives]

Not everyone has additional content IDs & characters. For those people, extra Crysta will just lie around for months until they can eventually be used to break even on a monthly payment. If you decide to quit the game before you break even, that is lost money that can be used to buy important items. People are making a big deal out of this because it's a big deal to people.

And what FFXIV playerbase? Honestly speaking here. I know the game exists, but it still does not charge monthly payments. The game is nearly a year old now, and the time when they'll start charging fees is still nowhere in sight. I'm not trying to be condescending with this remark, but I don't think Final Fantasy XIV is closely related to the issues going on right now unless they announce they're going to start charging monthly fees next month... and I don't think that would go over very well with how few people are still playing.

[RAIST]

This isn't the first time SE had to deal with this.

when ffxiv went live similar outburst happen. Then subsided after people figued stuff out.

So far my b/f signed up for C&B and had no issues. And he is of the mind set that if C&B does do something he can just cancle the credit card. Not the first time he did so. (long story)

Also SE does not regulate what country has what services. They can offer, but it is up to the region to take up said offer. Like not all countries have crysta. That is the fault of the contries.

Also the Crysta tin foil hat thinking is really getting outa hand. Learn how to take advantage of said system instead of moaning the "i'm forced to pay more to keep up crysta while having extra crysta I can't use" Kinda dumb sorry. You need crysta in your pot to purchase additional services such as extra content ID for characters.

If they do get more options, do not think it was you guys who caused the change, it woulda been a combination of both ffxi and ffxiv player bases.

wait... did I miss something? Has FFXIV secretely gone pay-to-play and now people will be billed for it through C&B or spend crysta to play it?

Again with you completely ignoring the math. I've already explained to you how you can verify the potential waste in the crysta system. Apparently you either didn't look into it, or you just can't see/understand the numbers you are looking at. Guess a 5 month sample wasn't good enough to show it to you. Maybe I need to put up an even bigger visual for you than I did the last time to grasp how out of whack it is. So... I'll do it for you in case you couldn't/wouldn't follow the simple instructions from that other thread:

Cumulative totals required to maintain a single FFXI account:

FFXIFees - $5 Crysta - $10 Crysta - $20 Crysta - $40 Crysta
12.95 ------ 15.00 ------20.00 ------ 20.00 ------ 40.00
25.90 ------ 30.00 ------40.00 ------ 40.00
38.85 ------ 40.00
51.80 ------ 55.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 80.00
64.75 ------ 65.00 ------ 70.00 ------ 80.00
77.70 ------ 80.00 ------ 80.00
90.65 ----- 100.00 ----- 100.00 ----- 100.00 ----- 120.00
103.60 ---- 105.00 ----- 110.00 ----- 120.00
116.55 ---- 120.00 ----- 120.00 ----- 120.00
129.50 ---- 130.00 ----- 130.00 ----- 140.00 ----- 160.00
142.45 ---- 145.00 ----- 150.00 ----- 160.00
155.40 ---- 160.00 ----- 160.00 ----- 160.00
168.35 ---- 170.00 ----- 170.00 ----- 180.00 ----- 200.00
181.30 ---- 185.00 ----- 190.00 ----- 180.00
194.25 ---- 195.00 ----- 200.00 ----- 200.00
207.20 ---- 210.00 ----- 210.00 ----- 220.00 ----- 240.00
220.15 ---- 225.00 ----- 230.00 ----- 240.00
233.10 ---- 235.00 ----- 240.00
246.05 ---- 250.00 ----- 250.00 ----- 260.00 ----- 280.00
259.00 ---- 260.00 ----- 260.00
271.95 ---- 275.00 ----- 280.00 ----- 280.00
284.90 ---- 285.00 ----- 290.00 ----- 300.00 ----- 320.00
297.85 ---- 300.00 ----- 300.00
310.80 ---- 315.00
323.75 ---- 325.00
336.70 ---- 340.00 ----- screw calculating out the rest
349.65 ---- 350.00 ----- if you REALLY want to see how
362.60 ---- 365.00 ----- it works out for the rest of these
375.55 ---- 380.00 ----- you see the pattern and you can
388.50 ---- 390.00 ----- do it on a calculator yourself
401.45 ---- 405.00
414.40 ---- 415.00
427.35 ---- 430.00
440.30 ---- 445.00
453.25 ---- 455.00
466.20 ---- 470.00 ----- But...I will give you the final values
479.15 ---- 480.00 ----- at the end of this once I finally
492.10 ---- 500.00 ----- hit the point where the fees
505.05 ---- 510.00 ----- actually catch up to the crysta
518.00 ---- 520.00 ----- you will have purchased
530.95 ---- 535.00
543.90 ---- 545.00
556.85 ---- 560.00
569.80 ---- 570.00
582.75 ---- 590.00
595.70 ---- 600.00
608.65 ---- 610.00
621.60 ---- 625.00
634.55 ---- 635.00
647.50 ---- 650.00
660.45 ---- 665.00 ----- yes...that's right! you are still
673.40 ---- 675.00 ----- prepaying MORE than you are
686.35 ---- 690.00 ----- contractually obligated to
699.30 ---- 700.00 ----- pay SE to continue playing
712.25 ---- 715.00 ----- even after over 50 payment
725.20 ---- 730.00 ----- cycles--this is over 4 years
738.15 ---- 740.00 ----- and you STILL havent balanced!!
751.11 ---- 755.00
764.05 ---- 765.00
777.00 ---- 780.00
789.95 ---- 790.00
802.90 ---- 805.00
815.85 ---- 820.00
828.80 ---- 830.00
841.75 ---- 845.00
854.70 ---- 855.00
867.65 ---- 870.00
880.60 ---- 885.00
893.55 ---- 895.00
906.50 ---- 910.00
919.45 ---- 920.00
932.40 ---- 935.00
945.35 ---- 950.00 ----- 6 YEARS!!!! wait....
958.30 ---- 960.00 ----- WTF??!!! It still
971.25 ---- 975.00 ----- hasn't balanced out??!!
984.20 ---- 985.00
997.15 ---- 1000
1010.10 ---- 1015
1023.05 ---- 1025
1036.00 ---- 1040
1048.95 ---- 1050
1061.90 ---- 1065
1074.85 ---- 1075
1087.80 ---- 1090
1100.75 ---- 1105
1113.70 ---- 1115 ----- oh for the love of....
1126.65 ---- 1130 ----- over 7 YEARS???!!!
1139.60 ---- 1140 ----- !@#$!@$!@#$@!#$!@%$!@$
1152.55 ---- 1155
1165.50 ---- 1170
1178.45 ---- 1180
1191.40 ---- 1195
1204.35 ---- 1205
1217.30 ---- 1220
1230.25 ---- 1235
1243.20 ---- 1245
1256.15 ---- 1260
1269.10 ---- 1270
1282.05 ---- 1285
1295.00 -- 1295.00 ---- 1300.00 ---- 1300.00 --- 1320.00
FFXI fees - $5 Crysta - $10 Crysta - $20 Crysta - $40 Crysta

DING DING DING DING!!! WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!!

FINALLY after 100 billing cycles (over 8 yrs.) it finally gets to the point where we can actually have paid EXACTLY what we were charged.

Wait.. wut? the $10, $20, and $40 buyers still overpaid?

SUCKERS!!!!!!!!

Now... do you finally grasp the concept?

Or do we need to call A-Pimp-Named-Slickback?

[Runespider]

I hate that they are being so obvious about ripping us off over crysta, 30 day billing, exchange rate changes etc (collectively they will make a fair amount of money for nothing out of all the players using crysta). It's not even the money realyl though, I would be less annoyed if they just upped the amount we pay but the low tactics they are using to make us all pay more is the real kicker.

[RAIST]

tbh... I wouldn't even mind paying a little more if they would have been up front about the need to increase our monthly fee. "Due to <insert reasons here>, as of Sept. 1 we will be raising the fee to $13.95 USD". We could have digested that, and accepted it, and moved on.

The REAL slap in the face for me is the FORCING of us to do this...and not ALL of us, just the non JP clients. All this other crap is just salt in the wound. It's like death by a thousand cuts while they're peeing on us. Just a flat out insult to injury.

[Rosina]

WoW, that is what tin foil hat thinking is. And honestly sto saying "if i quit" yada yada. Crysra is good on your account for 2 years. And even though ffxiv is currently not charging the player base. You still need to select a payment option. More or less the complaint in ffxiv was Click and buy was hard to set up. No one did tin foil hat thinking about "shady" stuff. Honestly like I said use the system to your advantage. buy cysta closest to your current fee. The points work on the dollor not cents. You guys really pulling complaints out of thin air. Have you guys actually used this style of payment? Or you just complaining for complaints sake? I'm on a fixed income and prob only way I can pay for ffxi and ffxiv once they charge is from unemployment. If you think your going to quit, just do not used cysta.
Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

[Runespider]

WoW, that is what tin foil hat thinking is. And honestly sto saying "if i quit" yada yada. Crysra is good on your account for 2 years. And even though ffxiv is currently not charging the player base. You still need to select a payment option. More or less the complaint in ffxiv was Click and buy was hard to set up. No one did tin foil hat thinking about "shady" stuff. Honestly like I said use the system to your advantage. buy cysta closest to your current fee. The points work on the dollor not cents. You guys really pulling complaints out of thin air. Have you guys actually used this style of payment? Or you just complaining for complaints sake? I'm on a fixed income and prob only way I can pay for ffxi and ffxiv once they charge is from unemployment. If you think your going to quit, just do not used cysta.
Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

You have no idea what you are on about, but thanks for bumping the thread.

[Modoru]

If you're unemployed, I don't think playing an MMO is for you, either. That's not stopping you from participating, however. Again, these complaints are just various reasons as to why it's a bad [maybe a dumb?] decision. Direct pay is a vastly [ridiculously, even] more efficient way of paying for FFXI as opposed to stacking a fake currency to pay for an MMO. Sure, people will get used to it; and sure, people will try their best to make it work.

It doesn't change the fact that it's still a counter-intuitive plan. "If I quit" is a very valid statement, people come and go all the time, and moreso recently, a lot of people have quit indefinitely. Why would want to pay extra to have an unused amount that is quite possibly never going to be used? That's just poor budgeting! All you say is "tinfoil-hat thinking", but it's actually called a "point of view". Just because you do not agree with it, doesn't mean it's either a stupid [if I'm not mistakenly quoting your past words] idea or biased. As I told you last time, learn to appreciate other points of view before shutting them out. There is no "right" or "wrong", there's just opinions in this subject.

On an unrelated note, would you please learn how to spell Crysta?

[RAIST]

WoW, that is what tin foil hat thinking is. And honestly sto saying "if i quit" yada yada. Crysra is good on your account for 2 years. And even though ffxiv is currently not charging the player base. You still need to select a payment option. More or less the complaint in ffxiv was Click and buy was hard to set up. No one did tin foil hat thinking about "shady" stuff. Honestly like I said use the system to your advantage. buy cysta closest to your current fee. The points work on the dollor not cents. You guys really pulling complaints out of thin air. Have you guys actually used this style of payment? Or you just complaining for complaints sake? I'm on a fixed income and prob only way I can pay for ffxi and ffxiv once they charge is from unemployment. If you think your going to quit, just do not used cysta.
Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

O M F G. Are you REALLY that dense or just determined to not admit you are wrong?

YOU JUST PROVED THE ENTIRE POINT ABOUT CRYSTA IN YOUR OWN FREAKING WORDS!!!

1500 crysta costs $15

Thus, 1300 crysta is ACTUALLY worth $13

$13 > $12.95
$65 > 64.75

DO YOU STILL NOT GET IT???!!

No matter which way the crysta is redeemed.. be it as actual value or rounded up---YOU ARE SPENDING MORE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN.

The ONLY way this is not true is if crysta is redeemed at actual value (12.95 installments) for 100 billing cycles. And even then, that would still take over 8 years to balance out. (Note it has to be redeemed as 12.95 because of the 5 cent over pay per installment. Otherwise after 100 cycles, you have bought and spent $1300 worth of crysta to cover $1295 worth of actual fees)

Are we really going to still be here in 8.2 years? I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

[Niyariko]

I know that one of the alternative payment method coming must be direct SE auto-payment with CC just like we were using (and is still available to the JP), or else their ongoing payment processing decision is a failure, and will never be improved.

[wildsprite]

personally I like the crysta system(I pay 14.95 per month so I'm losing 5 cents...that I don't see as a big deal), however I do agree they need better alternatives and the idea of being able to pay the exact amount in crysta would be a beautiful thing.

however there is something you may not be stopping to think about, I noticed a few companies based in Japan would try out new things on their own country player base before others just to see how well it went over(Sony and SEGA both did this kind of thing in the past)

however unlikely it is perhaps that is the case here

[Niyariko]

...I noticed a few companies based in Japan would try out new things on their own country player base before others just to see how well it went over(Sony and SEGA both did this kind of thing in the past)

however unlikely it is perhaps that is the case here

I don't think thats the case either, they have tested the CreditCard system for 8+ years overseas XD

[Modoru]

personally I like the crysta system(I pay 14.95 per month so I'm losing 5 cents...that I don't see as a big deal), however I do agree they need better alternatives and the idea of being able to pay the exact amount in crysta would be a beautiful thing.

however there is something you may not be stopping to think about, I noticed a few companies based in Japan would try out new things on their own country player base before others just to see how well it went over(Sony and SEGA both did this kind of thing in the past)

however unlikely it is perhaps that is the case here

If you're implying CnB is their method of testing -- it wouldn't really make sense, because they already "tested" this with FFXIV once. If you're implying Direct payment w/ crysta for JP only, that would make no sense either.

All they would have to do is transfer what we have now, to what they want to have in the near future.

[wildsprite]

since when has anything SE has done made any sense? o_0

think about it,with the old system they set up maintenance for the first of the month making it impossible for anyone who had their CC rejected to get back into the game for a minimum of hours, there was a small window where you can pay and get back in, if you missed that you couldn't get back in till the 2nd of the month, makes no sense to penalize your player base by doing something like that when a maintenance in the middle of the month would actually make sense

[Modoru]

All they do makes sense.

To them.

That said, there's a level of "sense" that they don't cross, and your idea kinda crossed it. :v

No offense meant, though.

[wildsprite]

I don't know, they have crossed some pretty stupid "Sense" lines in the past, I would not be the least bit surprised if they did that here as well


If you're implying CnB is their method of testing -- it wouldn't really make sense, because they already "tested" this with FFXIV once. .

I beg to differ with that, there was no real test because FFXIV became FTP very fast so the uproar needed to tell them C&B was a bad choice just was not there, so no there was not a test there

[Alukat]

This isn't about changing your account to a Square enix account, lots of us did that. This is about the fact you now have to totally change how you pay for FFXI on that account, this is new stuff and a lot of people still don't know there accounts will close next month cause they have yet to set it up. The way you paid for FFXI for the last howevermanyyears is now no good and you gotta pick a new payment system, and the options are terrible.

O.o account will be closed next month if not transfered, didn't know that.
well seems like that will be the end of my ffxi career if they don't change it till the end of the month :( .

[RAIST]

yeah...you will have to synch everything up again one way or the other after August 31st. You might not even be able to sign in to the forums either if they do that auto-direction thing again like they just did for character data--requiring you to make the account changes when you log in before sending you to the forums. that would be another thing that would suck @$$ if people suddenly try to come back, get hit with all that crap and don't know what is going on, and can't get into the forums (only browse anonymously)....support center might breakdown from the influx of phone/chat calls and such.

[Romanova]

WoW, that is what tin foil hat thinking is.


Do you understand what a tin foil hat is? Because that definitely wasn't it.

[Rearden]

I don't think the man paying for Rosina's account is aware of any of this.

While I won't be upping my account until we get a direct bill to SE, to play devil's advocate on something said earlier: "I wouldn't mind if they increased our bill as long as they were upfront about it"

That's nice to say, but I know I'd personally be pissed because I'd know it was due to FFXIV's failure that our bill was increased. I don't want to pay for SE's mistakes, I want to pay for FFXI and it's continued development.

[RAIST]

I don't think the man paying for Rosina's account is aware of any of this.

While I won't be upping my account until we get a direct bill to SE, to play devil's advocate on something said earlier: "I wouldn't mind if they increased our bill as long as they were upfront about it"

That's nice to say, but I know I'd personally be pissed because I'd know it was due to FFXIV's failure that our bill was increased. I don't want to pay for SE's mistakes, I want to pay for FFXI and it's continued development.

|True Strike|. But at least, it would be a quantifiable change. If they stated that it was due to something like the added cost of meeting new regulatory standards (new security protocols requiring additional hardware purchases, CC processors raising fees, etc... a lot of things they could state as reasons)--they've determined it was necessary for them to increase fees. People could tally that up, digest it, and either agree or disagree on simply stated facts.

Sure... there might be some people who don't wan't to pay the extra $1 per account per cycle, and they would leave. But it would be a matter off they raised the price, and I didn't want to pay that price. It would be purely a market based decision--not much different then you choosing not to buy something at a certain retailer because the price is too high.

What has happened here is SE has decided not to change the billing option for one particular set of people, so they are not at any risk of loosing them simply from this change. Meanwhile, what they have done is completely isolated a BUNCH of players, rendering many of them unable to even pay them AT ALL, and thus are forcing them off the grid. This is flat out disenfranchisement and discrimination--they've forced them out with no hope of remedy, and have done it by a regionally identifiable boundary.

[Alhanelem]

FFXIFees - $5 Crysta - $10 Crysta - $20 Crysta - $40 Crysta
12.95 ------ 15.00 ------20.00 ------ 20.00 ------ 40.00
25.90 ------ 30.00 ------40.00 ------ 40.00
38.85 ------ 40.00
51.80 ------ 55.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 80.00
64.75 ------ 65.00 ------ 70.00 ------ 80.00
77.70 ------ 80.00 ------ 80.00
90.65 ----- 100.00I'm going to have to stop you right there, as there's something wrong with this picture. You made a mistake here and thus you may have made mistakes elsewhere; you only need $95 in crysta to cover $90.65.

And there are many times where you can back out and only have lost a couple nickels. HEAVEN FORBID.

Also, the Crysta amounts don't exist in a vaccum. Any intelligent person would see that , assuming you did use crysta for 8 years just to get every penny's worth of crysta used up, that if you put crysta in with $20 incriments, you could then add $10 and $5 to come out to the same $1295 that someone who felt the need to add crysta in $5 incriments did.

[RAIST]

eh.. brain fart.. you try manually typing all that crap out in the middle of the night. The end result is still correct. In case you didn't notice, the "chart" coreects itself in the very next line:

103.60 ---- 105.00 ----- 110.00 ----- 120.00

I included the other amounts for comparison sake. Some are not able to buy online, so their only options were to buy the locally available cards. If I remember correct, those are only offered in $10 and $20 denomintaions here. Haven't really been looking for them though. I added the $40 column for those that don't want to hassle with going in there EVERY 30 days and adding bits and pieces and rather just buy $40 chunks at a time.

The $5 line is there to prove that very point--that you can take the route of buying the least amount needed from cycle to cycle by mixing and matching (15, 15,15, 10, etc). It further illustrates how screwy the whole system is if you are trying to minimize your costs when you are unsure just how long you will continue to play FFXI.

The point still stands though, that you are overpaying via crysta UNLESS you do it for over 8 years, and ONLY if they allow Crysta to be redeemed for the actual fee (ie: 12.95 and not $13 a pop, in which case you technically are always ovverpaying with Crysta).

[Sparthos]

I'm going to have to stop you right there, as there's something wrong with this picture. You made a mistake here and thus you may have made mistakes elsewhere; you only need $95 in crysta to cover $90.65.

And there are many times where you can back out and only have lost a couple nickels. HEAVEN FORBID.

Also, the Crysta amounts don't exist in a vaccum. Any intelligent person would see that , assuming you did use crysta for 8 years just to get every penny's worth of crysta used up, that if you put crysta in with $20 incriments, you could then add $10 and $5 to come out to the same $1295 that someone who felt the need to add crysta in $5 incriments did.

The question I pose to you is why do you think SE is selling crysta in these specific increments? Have computers suddenly become incapable of processing specific amounts?

The monthly fee is 12.95/month. Where is the option to pay.... 12.95/month in crysta? Why is there no option to pay the exact amount on a website? It's a cash grab. A "few nickles" adds up to a ton of money spread across multiple accounts and I know it, SE knows it and anyone willing to grab a calculator sees it.

Ive said it before and ill say it again. On a website, SE should have zero problems processing a crysta payment of the exact 12.95 because all of this is computerized and they knew the monthly fee going into switching over payment options.

It is in bad faith to offer individuals a payment system where you must overpay in order to receive a service, even if said overpayment comes down to a few cents here or there. The agreement was 12.95/month and not one cent over.

What if I only offered SE $12.50/month? It's only a few cents off 12.95 right? My ass would be deactivated until I paid in full.

That being said, I understand if crysta were sold in round increments via gamecards in order to make it simplistic for buyers at a retail outlet.

10/20/25/50/100 dollar cards are a whole lot easier to swallow for the consumer than 12.95/25.90/38.85/51.80 especially if the individual buying the card has no idea what the actual cost of the service is because they aren't the person playing XI.

[RAIST]

eh...Alhanelem probly just had a brain fart like I did--he/she is not usually so prone to seeing things in such a vacuum (unlike some posters).

We're all probly getting frustrated and worn out over the debate at this point and are gonna make little gaffs like that here and there...and the slow responses from SE don't do much for releasing the pressure valve.

Don't get me wrong, in contrast to things in the past, it is a vast improvemnt to their communication channels--but in this day and age with a dozen or more 24 hour news channels, twitter, and the like...everyone has been conditioned to getting faster responses then they are able to provide.

[RAIST]

hehe... just realized I never replied to this part of Rosina's last misinformed post. And I just can't resist it....got that Boondocks intervention episode on my mind again:


Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

That money is not wasted. That is money paid for services you used in the past. You don't pay for your time AFTER you've played FFXI--you are PREPAYING. After this change, you will be contractually required to prepay for your next 30 day subscription window. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let me state this again, seperately so it stands out, in the hopes you fully grasp this point so you can (hopefully) understand the importance of the issue at hand.


After this change, you will be contractually required to prepay for your next 30 day subscription window.

Now, just what does that mean? It means that you have to either have an active 30-day acces window in effect, or pay for a 30-day subscription to have access. Whether you use that time to play or not doesn't matter. You paid for it, were given that subscription. no refunds or exchanges as per the ToS. If you subscribe to a magazine, get that magazine, and never read it--you are not necesarrily entitled to a refund for the cost of that one issue of that magazine, or maybe not even any refund of your remaining subscription fee (depending on that particular contract). In this particular case, you have to pay in advance for a 30 day window of access, and are not entitled to any refund from SE as per the ToS. You cannot buy a partial, pro-rated window of access, nor can you buy more than a 30 day window--it is 30 days and 30 days only, purchasable only as a single unit for 30 days and 30 days only. It appears the system will be designed to only require and allow you to purchase a window when your current window is expiring (or possible there will be a window towards the end of the current window, like during the last 5 days they may process the next window, that is still unknown--but you will not be buying 2 30-day FFXI passes at once, effectively preventing you from having more than 60 days prepaid at any given point in time..possible even a lower cap).

Now....the cost for that 30 day window for your first character on the account is established as $12.95. Under your contract with SE, you are REQUIRED to pay them 12.95 for each 30 day window of access to the game. Thus, by extension, you can only pay for your FFXI in increments of $12.95 for that first character, in advance, for your pending 30 day window of access. Once that window is purchased for pending access, you CANNOT purchase another window until you have no pending future window of access. You can never purchase a window of access unless you have no pending window of access.

So... what does all that mean? You can only ever purchase one single future access window at any given time, you are contractually bound to purchase that window in advance before access is granted within that future window of access and have no right to a refund of that purchase, and the cost for that window has been established as $12.95 for your first character on an account. Thus, you are required, and only liable to pay SE $12.95 in advance for 30 days of future access, and restricted to only purchasing that one unit for $12.95.

So, you are required to purchase in advance for a set amount, are restricted to buying only one specific amount of future time to use at your deiscretion. Once purchased, the money(s) used for that purchase is forfeit in lieu of granting you access for 30 days. How much of that 30 day window you use is at your discretion. You purchased it, what you do with it is your wish--but it is only "wasted" if you don't use it.

Have you figured out where else all this is going yet?

With Crysta, you can only purchase it in $5 increments. Crysta is a product licensed through SE, and is thus only utlimately made available through SE's portal or an affiliate on SE's behalf. $12.95 is not divisible by $5 evenly, no matter what. Even if Crysta was redeemed at a 1:1 ratio, it would require $1295 worth of crysta to balance out equally between money(s) required and money(s) purchased. The user cannot purchase enough crysta in advance to make that balance ($100 limit). There is also the issue of Crysta expiration. SE can (at it's discretion) render all Crysta on an account within 1 year of inactivity, or even immediately under circumstances of abuse or other issues as determined in the ToS.

So, as it currently stands, if the user opts Crysta as a payment method for FFXI, it perpetually requires the user to spend more real life currency than is legally required of the user.

Now, in a normal environment when a user has multiple options for payment, this is less of an issue because the player has a choice in methods. They can opt for a differnt method of payment. The problem comes in when a user is suddenly, seemingly without justification, rendered no other option for payment of services. As in, they've been taking a credit card for 8 years, that instrument is still a qualified means of payment, but SE has arbitrarily rendered that instrument null and void on their own. Now that user is left with no other option but to pay more for the service with no justification for the change. Then, the issue comes into play where Crysta is also not made available to the user because of where they live. Effectively, SE just suddenly cut that user off from all access. Then the digital property rights debate comes into play. That user has spent 8 years alone or with other users participating in events and acquired and customized virtual property that is only obtainable through manual efforts on the part of the player (ie, they can't walk up to an NPC and buy thier AF gear and then upgrade it--they have to actively participate in content to obtain virtual rewards to exchange for virtual property, they can't legally give SE or any other entity real world money directly in exchange for that virtual property).

Which makes me question...is this a violation of some trade law somehwere?

[Alukat]

for me the transfer to the SE account worked, i haven't had to select a billing method yet.
just selected crysta and this time billing method for crysta didn't pop up instantly, seems like my account won't be closed :D

[Bilonn]

for me the transfer to the SE account worked, i haven't had to select a billing method yet.
just selected crysta and this time billing method for crysta didn't pop up instantly, seems like my account won't be closed :D

If you selected Crysta, then you have umm..a very short time, based on where you live, to add Crysta to your account.

[Eadieni]

I would like to point out a super duper secret that SE doesn't want you to know about:
The trick to getting past billing issues is to use a PS2.

It doesn't have 3D-Secure verification, that's only on the PC. It's how I use my RBFCU mastercard which does not support it.

ClickAndBuy however has worked with all my credit cards for authorization without fail for FFXIV.

Part of the reason for the minimum amounts has to do with credit card fees charged by visa, and also probably trying to keep exact $s. I don't know, Microsoft does it, EA does it, Sony does it. If you want to buy $0.99 DLC from the PSN you have to buy $5.
The crysta system also allows dual FFXI/FFXIV Game Cards to be sold, which I'm sure is the main reason behind this change (in addition to security). They are likely going to sell 150 Crysta cards at gamestop, for example. It also opens the door to things like ... cash shops.

[RAIST]

still.. there is the issue of the direct-pay by credit card being exteneded to only the JP.

Excluding everyone else specifically like that and then not addressing the issue publicly (still, no response from SE on THIS discrepancy it AT ALL) just makes it look kinda like a slight-of-hand tactic to generate extra revenue for SE in the long run.

And I'm not talking about the vague response we got basically saying...it's a work in progress... we are looking to improve the process. ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUE IN YOUR RESPONSE.

[Quetzacoatl]

I would like to point out a super duper secret that SE doesn't want you to know about:
The trick to getting past billing issues is to use a PS2.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/7/31/9b8130c7-5dcc-46c7-8afa-8c510c7e3b5c.jpg

Great, now SE is going to install 3D Secure on our f#@%ing PS2s. You just inconvenienced some of the playerbase who can't access 3DSecure on their CCs for playing on PS2, ya noob.

[RAIST]

the sad thing is a lot of people don't even know they may be able to enroll in Securecode/VbV and add it to their current cards. Both the Mastercard and Visa sites have pages for adding it to your card. Granted, it may not be available in some regions (Visa-US implies you can simply activate it on all US issued cards, but Visa-EU lists like 20 issuers that support it when you go to activate it, Mastercard kinda does the same thing too)

[Quetzacoatl]

the sad thing is a lot of people don't even know they may be able to enroll in Securecode/VbV and add it to their current cards. Both the Mastercard and Visa sites have pages for adding it to your card. Granted, it may not be available in some regions (Visa-US implies you can simply activate it on all US issued cards, but Visa-EU lists like 20 issuers that support it when you go to activate it, Mastercard kinda does the same thing too)

Mine's not even eligible for SecureCode, so guess what that would mean for me?

[Alukat]

If you selected Crysta, then you have umm..a very short time, based on where you live, to add Crysta to your account.

well if no changes occur before my account gets closed,then i have 17.95€ per month which i can spend for other things.

1 person can't make a change but thousands could :x

[Meyi]

SE will probably make an announcement of some kind on Monday. Hopefully, they won't bury it under a sticky you gotta dig through.

Try to see things from their side. This is a game, but it's also a business. They have stockholders to answer to, and they have to keep a solid profit margin. It costs money just to bill people. They have to do a cost analysis and see what would work out best for them. ... I don't think they had predicted this total $#!+ storm. So now they have to make calls, have long meetings, and rethink things. It won't happen instantly, it takes time. They're not politicians; if they promise something, it had better damn well happen, so they can't just make big talk about PayPal and Visa unless they can actually make it happen.

I predict we won't hear a thing come Monday. Or even until September's right around the corner or here.

I think we all understand that it is a business as well as a game. Square Enix needs to generate income from its playerbase and I know the company is often hasty to jump on potential ways to save a buck. However, Square Enix must also understand that, as a business, the "customer is always right", and if the customer is not happy, then the business is not happy. If a customer never returns that is lost income... far more lost income than the fee to process our money directly. Multiply that by how many people cannot and will not play due to our current options, and we're looking at a serious dilemma.

You're right; for us it is just a game. A game that we can quit and walk away from. For Square Enix, it is their monetary gain and is something they cannot easily abandon.


This isn't the first time SE had to deal with this.

when ffxiv went live similar outburst happen. Then subsided after people figued stuff out.

Then why were they foolish enough to persevere in billing FFXIV in this fashion? Even worse yet, why change FFXI after it's been in the direct payment route for the last eight years? Why do the Japanese get to continue paying directly while the rest of the playerbase cannot? I can somewhat understand that since FFXIV was forced with these options from the beginning that anyone who disagreed with the payment system just wouldn't play the game. No play, no loss. But for the old playerbase that FFXI is composed of, people who have lots of things already accomplished and friendships created, I think it's a very poor move to demand we choose to start paying with things we don't want to pay with or toss away our beloved characters.


So far my b/f signed up for C&B and had no issues. And he is of the mind set that if C&B does do something he can just cancle the credit card. Not the first time he did so. (long story)

I cannot lock or cancel my credit card. It's a family card. However I did notice Korpg linked us to some prepaid cards that might work with ClickandBuy, and if that's the case, I might buy one of those and just insert money onto it. If ClickandBuy decides to try and pull a fast one on me then my family won't be in danger.


Also SE does not regulate what country has what services. They can offer, but it is up to the region to take up said offer. Like not all countries have crysta. That is the fault of the contries.

Is it? Perhaps Square Enix could persuade them to allow Crysta. Or if it doesn't have that kind of power, it could still offer another service to the countries that cannot buy crysta.


Also the Crysta tin foil hat thinking is really getting outa hand. Learn how to take advantage of said system instead of moaning the "i'm forced to pay more to keep up crysta while having extra crysta I can't use" Kinda dumb sorry. You need crysta in your pot to purchase additional services such as extra content ID for characters.

Uncalled for remark. There is nothing dumb about being angered with having to overpay for a service. Especially, once again, since we have been able to pay for the exact amount for the last eight years. Not to mention the Japanese are still allowed to.


If they do get more options, do not think it was you guys who caused the change, it woulda been a combination of both ffxi and ffxiv player bases.

Well if FFXIV complained and it didn't change for them then I can't honestly say FFXIV contributed. If it changes I would have to say that FFXI provided the biggest movement. But even then, what does this sentence have to do with anything? We're not here for bragging rights, we're here to ask Square Enix for better payment choices.



1295.00 -- 1295.00 ---- 1300.00 ---- 1300.00 --- 1320.00
FFXI fees - $5 Crysta - $10 Crysta - $20 Crysta - $40 Crysta
FINALLY after 100 billing cycles (over 8 yrs.) it finally gets to the point where we can actually have paid EXACTLY what we were charged.

Wow that's sad... add on the fact that a lot of people have mules and the numbers may take even longer to sync up. Thank you for crunching that out, it was very interesting to see.


WoW, that is what tin foil hat thinking is. (...) No one did tin foil hat thinking about "shady" stuff. (...) You guys really pulling complaints out of thin air.

This is why people don't like you. This is why people attack you all the time. Learn to speak civilly to others and others will speak civilly to you. Stop insulting us or else it will come back ten fold.


I'm on a fixed income and prob only way I can pay for ffxi and ffxiv once they charge is from unemployment.

Our lovely tax dollars at work...



Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

While it IS true that MMOs are nonrefundable, they are not a waste of money. We are paying for entertainment for the month. The same argument could be made for movies, video games, television, internet, cell phones, and sometimes cars. None of this is refundable and none of it is needed to live. Now internet may help with our jobs, cell phones may be useful in bosses and employees contacting us, and cars are a great way to get to work, but how many of us surf the net for fun, text friends with one worded texts and go on cruises?

Most things in life are nonrefundable. That doesn't matter.

Also, not everyone wants to spend an additional $1~5 a month because after a year, that's $12 (almost a free month of play) or $60 (could pay for a month of internet). After the years roll by such numbers build up.

What I think is, if someone cannot afford a MMO, they shouldn't be playing it.


You have no idea what you are on about, but thanks for bumping the thread.

XD



It is in bad faith to offer individuals a payment system where you must overpay in order to receive a service, even if said overpayment comes down to a few cents here or there. The agreement was 12.95/month and not one cent over.

Yep. Like Raist I wouldn't have minded if they added an additional dollar to the service fee to compensate for something as long as they provided a reason why. I don't mind paying a little more for my game as long as they're being open and honest with me. Trying to get a few cents out of me through unwanted crysta though...

[Reiterpallasch]

Mine's not even eligible for SecureCode, so guess what that would mean for me?
One less person to camp against on Leviathan! :3

But no really, this whole system is bullshit. Dunno wtf SE is thinking. Did they put the old dev team in charge of billing or something? Next thing you know you'll only have a 3hour window each month to pay, and if you don't you get banned.

[Quetzacoatl]

One less person to camp against on Leviathan! :3

Don't believe Draylo's lies! (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b244/FenreyVarnFFXI/Oh%20Lawd/dontbelievedrayloslies.jpg?t=1312169418)

[Sagian]

RAIST has it right anyway. The lowest whole-dollar amount, which is a multiple of $12.95, and divisible by $5.00, is $1295.00... one-hundred months.

In any case, I've cancelled my content ID's until I can direct pay again, which means I may be finished forever. I won't deny, though, it was fun while it lasted! :D

[Niyariko]

People shouldn't be quitting due to payment issues, its sad to see FFxi end like this after all those excellent contents ><;

[RAIST]

Mine's not even eligible for SecureCode, so guess what that would mean for me?

I'd call the 800 number on your card if you haven't checked it in a while. A lot of companies have gotten on board with it lately (probly due to all the ecommerce now). I've never run into any issues using my card through secured sites. Granted, I only have 1 MC, but also have 4 VISA, an AMEX, and Discover. The security isn't just SecureCode, that is just MC's brand name. Visa uses the Verified by Visa thing (Visa/MC use the same protocols), JCB is Jsecure and AMEX is SafeKey. Granted, the last two are proprietary, but if you have one of those, it's pretty much a lock that it's active or at least available. And VISA appears to make it available to all US issued cards.

[RAIST]

People shouldn't be quitting due to payment issues, its sad to see FFxi end like this after all those excellent contents ><;

for some it's simply not an option. For others, the remaining options just don't sit well with them for whatever reason. Many are leaving on principle...it's not necessarily a lolrage quit thing.

Me, I'm out of work. I have budgetted and can manage to cover my current FFXI charges and a spot of gas to get around while looking for work and such. My bank flat out rejects C&B on policy. They have protected me twice on fraud (once due to my mistake with an ebay transaction, again with a fake charge from the UK)--so I am simply going to trust their judgement on this and not use C&B.

Until I get a reliable cashflow going again (not working odd jobs here and there just to make ends meet) I simply can't justify spending the extra money on Crysta to play. Extra billing cycles, extra cost per cycle to play, exceeding what I have projected in my budget to be able to maintain things until the end of the year (longer PROVIDED an old investment of mine finally pays off for me). If I could use the card like I've always done, I could tolerate it if the shorter cycles and potential interest on the card prevented me from paying it off a few times--but I try to keep this card as cleared as I possibly can in case I need it for emergency spending.

So, in a way...in my current situation, loosing this direct bill option is just not something I can stomach financially.

[Quetzacoatl]

I'd call the 800 number on your card if you haven't checked it in a while. A lot of companies have gotten on board with it lately (probly due to all the ecommerce now). I've never run into any issues using my card through secured sites. Granted, I only have 1 MC, but also have 4 VISA, an AMEX, and Discover. The security isn't just SecureCode, that is just MC's brand name. Visa uses the Verified by Visa thing (Visa/MC use the same protocols), JCB is Jsecure and AMEX is SafeKey. Granted, the last two are proprietary, but if you have one of those, it's pretty much a lock that it's active or at least available. And VISA appears to make it available to all US issued cards.

I tried to check for that, and that was when everyone got hit with that Cancelled Content ID fiasco during registration maintenance around the end of june/beginning of july. My bank does not support it. I think I'm honestly going to go with the Crysta Route via UltimatePay...because if I remember right, CC info on SE accounts need 3DSecure to directly buy Crysta, right? My plan is this:

I killed off one of my mules, so I drop my pricing down to $14.95. Then I can buy $30 worth of UltimatePoints and transfer them to Crysta afterwards ( I'm looking up how to do that). I won't be too worried about overpaying this way, because this will leave me with 10 crysta over by the end of the second month for me to refill. lolMicro-Management. I've never used Crysta before, but hopefully having 10 crysta left over by the second month by the time I buy more crysta doesn't mean I'll get my characters cancelled after my 2-month payment.

I just hope this doesn't cause complications. I had a whole day of those on the 2nd of July. -_-

[RAIST]

Sounds like a plan. I'm just curious how you managed to pay with the POL billing...if your card is being acccepted now with the POL system, then it is using either the 3DS or Jsecure protocol already. Your account appears to be active.

[Quetzacoatl]

Sounds like a plan. I'm just curious how you managed to pay with the POL billing...if your card is being acccepted now with the POL system, then it is using either the 3DS or Jsecure protocol already. Your account appears to be active.

Well, someone gave away the secret already (Eadieni, be glad I'm not on your server to spam you with /slap).

I updated my billing info via PS2. PS2 doesn't use 3DSecure.

[RAIST]

hmmm... been hearing people say it the workarounds didn't work for that anymore... Guess some people just aren't grasping how to do it. Don't know what is so hard about hitting the back button... but, wonders never cease.

[Quetzacoatl]

Well not anymore now by the time the transfer period ends.

SE, please take what I owe you! :(

[Alhanelem]

The question I pose to you is why do you think SE is selling crysta in these specific increments?Because they plan to use Crysta for other things besides your $12.95 subscription fee for FFXI or FFXIV.

[Knives]

Crysta's used for a bit more in Japan, like items people can buy for their Square-Enix Members accounts. As of now, it's still fairly useless to us.

[Maacha]

Just lost access to my mule account. Clock is ticking now for my 2 main accounts... I hope they come up with a solution for us soon...

[Runespider]

Just lost access to my mule account. Clock is ticking now for my 2 main accounts... I hope they come up with a solution for us soon...

Really? I thought we had till the end of August before people would be getting locked out..how stupid can this company get

[RAIST]

grr....really wish they gave us PM support. Been talking with different people on different forums, and managed to track down some interesting info on Capital One Visa's. Would be nice if I had an easier way to track who that was....too many freaking posts in my history... lol.

Anywho...in case anyone is interested. Capital One used to to Verified by Visa. Saw a pic of the old VbV FAQ page (had copyright 2007 in the header). The signup pages are still on the VISA server (securesuite I think it was) along with all the other banks VISA links you to from their VbV pages, but it's no longer valid as they've changed the current agreements. But they did support it at one time...guess that's why mine worked so flawlessly back when I was using it online.

I posted this link somewhere else here already I think.. may have been another thread... been busy this week. But you could try to activate your Visa card directly with VISA (instead of your bank) if you are having issues getting a credit card to work. It probably won't work with the Capital One cards, as they apparently switched from offering this for their Visa's somewhere between 2007 and 2011 (but it shouldn't hurt to try I guess).

https://usa.visa.com/personal/security/vbv/index.jsp
****Note this is for US issued cards only.


EU issued cards have to go to custom pages for their respective issuers to request activation. You can get to them through here:

http://www.visaeurope.com/en/cardholders/verified_by_visa.aspx

After clicking the Sign-Up link, you will get a drop box to select your country and check the bank listing to see if you may be able to activate it. Click on your bank's icon to get a page to try to activate VbV.

[Maacha]

Really? I thought we had till the end of August before people would be getting locked out..how stupid can this company get

I transferred my mule account over to SE account in order to test my payment options. I was unable to set up either C&B (unsupported country) or Crysta (Paypal is still trying to verify my Korean credit card), so my mule account was shut down for lack of payment. I did not yet transfer my main 2 accounts, they are still able to be paid for using POL, but that ends Aug 31 when I have to transfer them too.

[wildsprite]

I transferred my mule account over to SE account in order to test my payment options. I was unable to set up either C&B (unsupported country) or Crysta (Paypal is still trying to verify my Korean credit card), so my mule account was shut down for lack of payment. I did not yet transfer my main 2 accounts, they are still able to be paid for using POL, but that ends Aug 31 when I have to transfer them too.

you could attempt to make a playspan(playspan being the makers of the Ultimate Game Card)account, I believe playspan allows you to buy Ultimate Points with a credit card and you can use Ultimate Points to buy Crysta, if you try this please let us know how it works

http://www.playspan.com/marketplace

[RAIST]

yea, and if you manage to get it set up somehow, might want to post what you had to do in

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12290-Billing-issues-for-areas-not-covered-by-ClickandBuy-or-Crysta

to help round up these problem areas in one thread.

[Runespider]

Soon enough there will be no more complaints, cause all the people with issues with this will be locked out of their accounts and lose posting privelages here.

Can you try move a little faster Square (if you are going to do anything at all of course), you should be working faster than this to fix these problems your customers are having.

[Cylla]

Soon enough there will be no more complaints, cause all the people with issues with this will be locked out of their accounts and lose posting privelages here.

Can you try move a little faster Square (if you are going to do anything at all of course), you should be working faster than this to fix these problems your customers are having.

To late.
I've been stuck with a 105 error since Aug 1st and since SE wouldn't answer my support ticket to try and figure out what this error was all about I did some looking in to it myself and even though other people were having this error, they had no answers for it.

Toying around today I figured out that the reason that I was getting that error was because my card is not a verified by visa and the last time I did that for SE my card got screwed up and I ended up getting a new one with out that crap on it, buying an Xbox ver of the game and paying for my account that way.

SE got us jumping through all kinds of hoops and I'm done with it now. I'm not able to do Crysta because my paypal is hooked to my bank account which is used to pay all the bills and I use the credit card to pay for FFXI.

Let them have their JP ONLY players. I know Blizzard or Ncsoft would love to have my money, so they can have it. At least I don't have to jump through hoops to play their games.

[RAIST]

Hate to say it, but I've started down that same train of thought as Cylla. This situation is just flat out unreasonable by any standard.

I dug up my old D2/LOD discs last night just for sh!ts and giggles as it looks like we may be hearing some new details on D3 soon. I forgot how insanely simple that series was to master...and how stupidly addictive it is too.

Guess I have something else to kill time with now....and it's absolutely FREE!