On the Topic of RDM Magics [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Karbuncle

07-30-2011, 09:34 AM

Well, We all know the RDM melee thread. Its ripe with discussion for the RDM melee community and ideas (inbetween the bickering)!

So why not a Mage Equivalent? To be clear. This is not an insult nor satire of the other thread, I Simply believe both aspects of the job should have a thread dedicated to it.

I want you guys to post your ideas/Reasons/Helpful Abilities/Traits that will make the MAGE in Red Mage better. Any ideas/Abilities you think would really help RDM as a Magic based class!

I'll start! Basically my ideas wouldn't be the super-est broken ones, But something that might realistically fit the RDM job.

Job Abilities:

Ability 1
Next Spell casted will be "Quick casted".
Recast: 3 minutes
Duration: Next Spell

Ability 2
Increases Magic Accuracy and Magic Critical hit Rate for spells.
Recast: 5 mintues
Duration: 3 minutes
*Increases Magic Accuracy by 15 and M.Crit.Rate by 15

Job Traits

Trait 1
Increases Potency of Enfeebling magic spells.
RDM:30/50/70/90
Potency of Enfeebles Increased by 3% per stage. Duration of Enfeebles increased by 10seconds per stage.

Trait 2
Increases the Effect of Enhancing Magic Spells
RDM:50/75
Potency of Buffs enhanced by 2% Each Stage. Regen/Refresh not effected.

--------------------------------------------------------------

These Traits and Abilities won't make RDM Wtf-amazing (Except for Job Trait II, If you think about Haste being 19% for RDMs instead of 15%!). But they work for RDM, in a sense, Enfeebling and Enhancing Experts. (right?)

Greatguardian

07-30-2011, 12:25 PM

Ha, 19% Haste may be a biiiit broken (and simultaneously gimp every other mage in the game). I'd definitely take 10% Duration per upgrade, though. That seems to be the direction the Devs are leaning as far as reducing support casting burden goes. I doubt anyone would complain about casting Haste less often.

Making Quick Cast a selectable JA rather than a random trait would be vastly preferable, too. It would drive me absolutely bonkers to QM proc and cast a spell in my Idle gear. It'd essentially be a waste of MP.

I'd really just appreciate an increase to maximum debuff potency at this point, though. It's a problem a lot of jobs are facing, really. Potency caps were built around level 75, where hitting cap was actually decently difficult on some/most things and for some/most people. A steady increase in player stats and available gear without an increase to maximum dMND is odd. SE already addressed some of this with their tweaks to maximum buff potency, so I'd imagine that a tweak to maximum debuff potency is forthcoming.

cidbahamut

07-30-2011, 01:55 PM

Magical Critical hit rate intrigues me. I know it's in place for nukes(via some gear like wise strap), but how would it work on non-damage spells, or would it just be a dud when proccing on those?

Supersun

07-30-2011, 06:14 PM

Duelle

07-30-2011, 07:00 PM

I've always been partial to the idea of dual element nukes, provided they're at all possible given FFXI's mechanics. As I see it, they could either follow the combinations we see for level 2 skillchains (though we don't have something to cover the second parts from Fusion and Compression) or do something like Ice+Water, Wind+Lightning, Fire+Earth. The effects is something I can't flesh out for the life of me, though...

Note: To clarify before someone comes and tells me "butz thatz BLMs speshulti!1!one!", not necessarily. I would limit it to a tier below your current highest tier. We currently have tier IV nukes, so the combined spells would therefore be tier III at the highest. On a concept level, a RDM is not a classically trained mage per se. He'd be more the guy that at times does have to make stuff up on the fly to live to see another day on the battlefield, often relying on unorthodox methods to reach those ends. I'd say combining two elemental spells into one spell would count as unorthodox.

It is also an offshoot from another idea I had that allowed a RDM to combine several spells into a bigger spell, though I fear that would be pretty much impossible given FFXI's mechanics for magic.
----------------------------------------

Something else I wanted to present was something to boost healing without cure V, which has been the cause for debate. My idea for it would either a trait or a short-cooldown JA that would tack on an extra amount of HP healed over time when using cure spells. The problem is that traits are kinda unreliable and button-spamming on a JA is kinda meh. Another option would be to tie it to a mage-oriented stance, provided certain things come into play to preserve balance.

Eeek

07-30-2011, 09:21 PM

The 2nd Job Trait seems a bit overpowered as it would overshadow buffs from other mages like Haste and rival a WHM's fully-merited Shellra V. I do like Krabnuckle's 1st proposed Job Trait, though. It meshes well with SE's vision of RDM as a master enfeebler/enhancer.

It's all for naught though if RDM's enfeebles still won't land on the highest-tier NMs. I know SE mentioned this problem in the Manifesto - they need to adjust enfeebles cast by main-job RDMs so that they'll actually land on all mobs from trash mobs up to the highest-tier NMs. It's asinine that my RDM isn't that much better than my BLM at landing enfeebles. As part of its niche, RDM should be able to enfeeble mobs that the other mages cannot.

RDM also generally needs a wider array of Enfeebling and Enhancing spells as the game progresses to 99.

I also like Krab's proposed Job Abilities. A Quick Cast seems like a perfectly logical progression from Fast Cast, but like Greatguardian mentioned, all it would do, as a Job Trait, is annoy RDMs as they end up casting spells in their Fast Cast set. While not amazing, Quick Cast would be somewhat useful as a Job Ability. The 2nd Job Ability would give RDMs a little more leniency in situations like using a MND Club/Shield in favor of a staff for a more potent Slow II or Paralyze II.

Kensagaku

07-30-2011, 10:01 PM

There we go, something I can get on board with. I've nothing against RDM Melee (I have a melee build myself for situational uses... albeit a work in progress) but honestly I'd like to enhance what we're most skilled at. This is just my opinion, however.

Anyway, regarding Karby's ideas:

JA1 - As it has been said before, I'd love to control this. Back before I had some better atma, I used Apoc for the Quick Cast, but as a result I started seeing nukes in my Fast Cast gear, or enfeebles in the same, and that always messed me up. Being able to control it would be nice, like for a quick raise or something. I would be the first to support this but everyone already beat me to the punch. :P

JA2 - For some reason I see this being named "Concentration" (since Focus was taken by MNKs, though the FFIX/X renditions had it as a BLM ability to boost magic damage). I like this as well, and it could be a nice compliment to Saboteur. However, I do see the potential to it being a bit overpowered if it's a constant effect for three minutes; it toes the line pushing RDM into nuking territory, and while we can do this to some extent, the 15% M.crit could potentially (and again I say potential because I'm not one of our mathers) be too strong. I do like the enhanced accuracy as well, but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I also used parentheses far too many times there. :(

JT1 - This one I like, especially since you can stack your more potent debuffs with Saboteur too. Would love to see Para/Slow II be more potent. Would this affect Bio/Dia too, increasing further their attack/defense down abilities? Would it affect their DoT, and on that note the Poison line as well? Just a curiosity. Because by expanding the duration and effectiveness of DoTs, it would really help our overall ability to aid in the battle by reducing HP faster (which makes a visible difference finally on these high HP mobs!) and further weakening the foe.

JT2 - Maybe just take Haste off of the list as well? I mean, I'd love to see a potency boost on Protect/Shell/enspells/Aquaveil/spikes. Though with the last two, how would that work? Would it be longer-lasting Aquaveil effect (i.e. more interrupts prevented), and more powerful spikes? Maybe a bit more elaboration would help this look more viable.

There was one other idea I was looking at, the one Duelle put up. While it might seem odd to put RDM into the double-element nukes, I like the restriction, and you could technically claim it to be "Red Mage Canon." Could be something like Dualcast/Doublecast (your choice of name) but focused on just making the dual-element nukes rather than being two rapid-cast spells. The only problem I immediately have with this is that while we have the restriction of being one tier down, it also pushes us more into BLM's territory; we're a flexible job, and while we're able to nuke, that should not become a defining role.

Maybe what I'd like to see for the dual-nukes is a further enhancement on what they're doing with skillchains; by casting these spells, you do a good amount of damage and reduce the enemy's resistance to certain elements very briefly. Yes this toes the line for NIN's line of elemental jutsu with their enfeeble effect, but I'm just tossing ideas out as I go.

Another thing that could be considered is a dual-resist drawback; each half of the spell could be subject to its own resists. As an example, let's name them after the skillchains for now, i.e. Fusion/Distortion/Gravitation/Reverberation... those would be cool spell names. Let's say you're fighting a fire mob and you cast Distortion. The water half wouldn't get resisted due to Water > Fire, but the ice half would be subject to severe resists. So let's say you get a full resist on the ice half, you'd put it down to 1/16 of its potency. The spell itself would end up having only ~53% of its potency. This would be a potentially relevant nerf to keep it from digging too far into BLM territory while still providing us with a good line of offense, especially a Dark (well dark/earth) and Light (Fire/light) nuke to give us a even more versatility.

Mind you, these are just random ideas that came to mind upon reading the whole dual-element bit. Pardon the rambling. XD

Karbuncle

07-30-2011, 10:07 PM

The 2nd Job Trait seems a bit overpowered as it would overshadow buffs from other mages like Haste and rival a WHM's fully-merited Shellra V. I do like Krabnuckle's 1st proposed Job Trait, though. It meshes well with SE's vision of RDM as a master enfeebler/enhancer.

Yah, I was thinking of making it not work on Protect/Shell, because of just that. Haste i thought would still not be toooooooo powerful, Because it would give a RDM a solid spot in the party, Who wouldn't take an extra 4% haste?

It lets the WHMs go back to Curing, and etc. If you cant find a RDM 15% haste is still there, but if you can invite a RDM, you get 19%. it wont make or break a party but it would be a significant boost to RDMs Enhancing potential!

on the topic of hindering TP moves!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spells

Plague
Reduces an Enemies TP and MP over time.
recast:20s
Duration: 2minutes
Effect: 4mp/4tp-tic

I would think Amnesia, But I don't know a good balance for that.... 2minute recast/30sec Duration? What would be a make/break point for it... Dont want it to be useless but also dont want it to be too powerful! leave that to them

Edit:

but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I think elemental seal caps your Magic Accuracy (95%), So it wouldn't boost it too far. and Magical Critical hit is only ~+10MAB. I don't think its too broken! I could be wrong :X

Edit2:

How about-

Job Ability 1
Forces a Magical Critical hit on your next attack
Recast:3min
Duration: 1min or next spell.
(This might fit BLM more.)

Crimson_Slasher

07-30-2011, 10:21 PM

Thankyou karbuncle for this thread, granted it took me time to realize it existed and i did post a rather aggressive post in the melee thread just now, this what that post exactly called for! Now for me, i think potency is one way to go for rdm, as we do lack some in the mage department, however... On an enhancing/enfeebling standpoint personally, id like to see spells more in line with the gain spells to be utilized for RDM, things not unlike "Gain-Att" or perhaps to boost those wanting to enhance our tanking/offenses in mage methods, we could add "Gain-MAB" or "Gain-MDB" to rdm for some very powerful buffing indeed, as it would further support the mage side and manifesto ideals. Allowing us to boost our own MAB or that of say a BLM/SCH would help the party, especially with the ability to cast gain stat spells (int/str/dex) separately from these gains. That or again possibly splitting the gain spells from the boost spells, allowing us to utilize all at once, boost spells AOE but cant stack, why not make it so gain can stack but not aoe? Just some thoughts.

Hyrist

07-30-2011, 10:38 PM

It's been mentioned before but Rdms REALLY need some form of spell to actually hinder a monsters TP attacks. Kinda silly that Rdms can't even significantly touch the most dangerous part of most fights.

This seriously. Having no way to directly counter the most dangerous aspect of opponents, or even really truely mitigate the usage like we can normal attacks (with slow, paralyze, blind, etc) Is really, really annoying. Especially when they start releacing bosses who's spells or even normal attacks count as TP moves, or status effects that are on an Aura.

That completly bypasses RDM mechanics as they stand now, and a way to occasionally prevent TP moves or even just lenghen their use/delay would really be a boon for the job.

That said, RDM's Buffing game is sorely in need of a complete overhaul. It's long since been a standing complaint that single-target buffs are just not an adaquate job passtime. It's tedious for no reason, especially when pratically every other buffer job or those who can buff the party do so to the ENTIRE party automatically or have tools to allow them to spread so with ease.

Pair this off that most of the Buff spells on Red Mage are self-target only and everything about RDM's buffing side SE said on that Manifesto was pretty much false.

While 'Aura' abilities might be a solution to this, I think it's a bit farther from the base Red Mage mechanics then I personally feel comfortable. But simply giving Ga versions of of some of our root buffs (Phalanxga, Enspellga, Hastega) Would not be too much to ask. The fact that these are pretty much SMN exclusive just dosen't register as a valid reason to keep them away from RDM's spell list. I was rather upset that our Gain Spells are neither acessionable nor natively AoE while WHM could do so easily.

Also we could use buffs of greater variety. (Seriously, Brave at 2hr ability for Scholar?) Right now I think SE really just dosen't know what to do with this job class.

The only other Solution I can think of is to really abandon the buff path, and give us a wider variety of debuffs that improve preformance on all ends. (Magical Critical rate up on the target, Magic Defense down, Crit rate/damage higher on opponent, etc.) Which would also be ok, but if this is the path they choose to take for Red Mage, then we're going to need a general performance boost for situations in which we're dealing with multiple enemies that die quicker. (Which was where I was directing our melee buff with anyways so perhaps that works out.)

Karbuncle

07-31-2011, 02:06 AM

Oooh, I got a small idea...

Job Ability

Soul Aura
Grants the Buffs on RDM to players within Area of Effect. Overwrites existing buffs. RDM loses said buffs.
Recast:2minutes
Duration: Instant

Every job can Accession as /SCH, So this isn't as broken as you might think, Plus it could be level 91+. Plus the RDM loses the buffs (having to recast them). If RDM is truly suppose to turn "Mere mortals into demi-gods" they need a strong boost to buffing potential, This would give rhyme and reason to single-target buffs RDM has.

This will also help RDMs buff parties by buffing themselves, then using the JA, everyone in range gets their buffs, but they lose their own! There could be another draw back to it, to "balance" it. But Im not creative enough to think of a good one.

It could also Spread the love of "Composure" buff durations, to the point it would even help some other mages (Due to added duration).

WHM would still have stronger potency buffs when it comes to Pro/Shell, and Barspells, but RDM being able to buff themselves then AoE it by removing it from themselves saves time and will help RDMs workload a lot. Leaving room to cure!

Covenant

07-31-2011, 02:59 AM

Magian trials offer most of these "wants and wishes". Were getting a "fast cast" job abilty under manifesto.

Kensagaku

07-31-2011, 03:19 AM

Karbuncle

07-31-2011, 04:22 AM

Supersun

07-31-2011, 04:30 AM

I'll still believe the enhancing part on the manifesto when I see it. They have a LONG ways to go until we can even compete with Whm, Sch, Brd, Cor, and Smn, and the single target thing just simply isn't fun.

You have to realize that, at least I, have never wanted to be meleeing on HNMs. I've wanted SE to fully run with enfeebling for those types of monsters, but at the same time the weaker the monster gets the less practical enfeebling becomes. This was my idea for Rdm. For the toughest fights you pull out the big enfeebling guns and for weaker things where enfeebling isn't as practical you activate your Rdm Aura spells and contribute to the front.

The aura spell was devised to be similar to an Avatar's Favor ability where as long as you maintain the a type of aura buff on yourself everyone within an AoE radius of yourself will receive that buff as long as they stay within that radius. If they leave the radius the buff wears off quickly and they will be stripped of that buff until they enter the AoE radius again.

Perhaps the strongest aspect of the aura spell is that it cooperates with our composure and essentially gives allies buffs the same duration as our buffs. If for example if there was a Hastaura instead of having to recast that haste every 3-5 minutes across the party you only have to recast it every 9-12 mins once.

The biggest downfall as mentioned is that their usefulness plummets on HNM stye monsters where you want as few people forward as possible, but the aura spell was never intended for those style of fights. Would an AoE spell be better? Well no ****, but it's called a limitation and it's attempting to stay with the thematic restrictions given in the past. That's not to say that you are worthless for those fights. No...

For those fights you pull out the heavy weapons, your enfeebles.

If you really think about it. Our enfeebles really don't do THAT much to a monster. Slow II is about 40% capped, but it only applies to the monsters TP phase. 40% of ONLY the monsters TP phase is pretty terrible when most of the damage comes from the big bad TP attacks. It would be nice to see SE actually take the enfeebling route all the way for these types of fights. Give us our equivalent of ancient magic enfeebling, high MP expensive enfeebling spells that actually cripple the monster.

And this is the beauty where it wraps back around again. If these spells are implemented correctly the high MP cost will be a limitation that prevents it from being cast on anything that wont survive for its full duration since it'll be impossible for the Rdm to maintain his MP supply if he's expected to cast these spells on every monster and these types of monsters aren't as restrictive of who can be on the front. You just pop your auras and do whatever you feel like doing.

Now of course there's a few things with this idea. First and most importantly, SE can't just keep giving us enfeebles that are really only useful up until the point that a DD can safely recast utsusemi between swings. If they do this they have to actually cripple the monster in a significant way. Generally in games enfeebling tends to be one of the weakest methods of slowing the death of a player. Sure slow can theoretically help your tank survive 30% longer, but a full bar of MP and a cure spell will keep that tank alive exponentially longer. The real benefit that enfeebling should be cover is protection against dangerous moves where the tank is in danger of getting 1 shotted. Of course our enfeebling does virtually nothing for this regard so I think this would be a good point of focus. Enfeebling moves that weaken the monster or at least buy enough time so that a tank can normally survive a move that would normally kill him. It also works well for the HNM style fights that these enfeebles are intended for since that threshold of protection is addressing where the danger lies in most of those fights.

(Also, I pray SE never reads my mind about that idea of a monster attack I just had in my head D: though it would be a great way to "introduce" the concept of the power in a spell adding a addle like delay to TP attacks)

The other issue is that I would try to avoid putting mage support buffs on auras. Part of the balancing of the aura buff that separates them from AoEs is that level of risk you have to expose yourself to by standing next to the mob. Adding something like a Refraura completely defeats the purpose behind it.

-----

Also, I don't think a Dual Elemental nuke would work considering not even skillchains are truly dual elemental. From what I understand skillchains just randomly pick one of the elements that its supposed to represent for its damage.

Karbuncle

07-31-2011, 04:40 AM

Hyrist

07-31-2011, 05:18 AM

One downside to your ability, Karby, is that it takes away from the AF3+2 set ability, which enhances the duration of your party's buffs. By casting self-only (say Protect, Haste, Shell, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Spikes, Aquaveil) and then Aura-ing it, you might as well not even bother. Just as a note, it might end up making the set obsolete.

I understand this concern.

How about this, as an alternative?

Let the JA sacrafice our current Enhancement set, the full set of enhancements, to give to the party as a whole, effected by the same modifications to enhacement duration and composure that our gear normally would.

So say, while we have composure up, and we split our haste to the party, they would only get the normal duration haste if the RDM wasn't wearing their AF3. But with it on, it would get the same duraton bonuses it would normally get otherwise. (And RDM would just have to buff himself twice and just recast on himself.)

Working much in the same way Spirit Link does when you have mertis in Empathy.

This would prevent the workover issue of AF3+2 which, honestly doen't do all that much for us due to our limit of availability on single target buffs anyways. Refresh, Regen, and Haste, are the only things our AF3 enhances, and we've got a looong list of enhancing spells.

Or, alternatively (if the first ability seems overpowered), a JA that makes a buff we target on others "Aura" to nearby party members. Example: Just the JA, cast "Haste" on one of the DDs in AF+3. Suddenly, everyone in the melee party gets haste gets it for the duration it lasts on the target party member.

Karbuncle

07-31-2011, 05:19 AM

Oops! also i meant to say with Composure it would simply (originally) Spread the duration enhancement, not the actual Composure Buff.

JA buffs would be exempt from being passed on, Only Buffs from Spells.

Raksha

07-31-2011, 05:38 AM

Re: Dual-Element Skillchains.

I believe you're correct, For instance Firesday will sometimes enhance Light Skillchain, Which while having all 4 Elements present, is still suppose to deal light elemental damage (Like Dia), but instead can be enhanced by, like i said, Firesday.

I think it choses which element would present the least resists... IDK, Skimmed over a discussion on it a while back and didn't much sink in.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103734-Skillchain-Elemental-Affinity

Skillchains will generally pick the element that the monster is weakest to. You can use Threnodies and/or Ninjutsu to "tune" the element.

Hyrist

07-31-2011, 05:39 AM

Right, what the concern was, is that our AF3+2 is kind of designed with the idea that we're actively casting on another individual other than ourselves, and that spreadding our buffs from ourselves would give the default tripple duration buff (+ self effect gear) rather than the typcial AF3+2 Duration increase, esentially rendering the AF3+2 effect useless.

That's why I added my suggestions to compensate for that possibility.

On a side note. The one bone SE did give us was the idea of new Enfeebles, and not to take us to off track, what enfeebles would you like to see us get, (how would you address the enemy TP move issue as well?)

Karbuncle

07-31-2011, 05:49 AM

Amnesia (this can be given without being broken)

Plague (Same as above)

Inhibit (Gives same effect as "Inhibit TP", reduces an Enemies TP gain)

Reflect (Maybe this should go to PLD as well, It could not be as powerful as past titles.. Would be hard to balance)

Stop (Removes any "Regain", "Regen" or "Refresh" Effect the Enemy has for a period of time)

I think stop would help in a lot of fights, but could be balanced to not be overpowered. Imagine stopping the Turtle in KSNM99's regen for ~20 seconds or so? or a Mobs Regain effect for a period of time.

Could do wonders for HNM-scene RDMs.

Hyrist

07-31-2011, 05:58 AM

Amnesia would be our TP form of Silence. I've been in support of it for a long while.

Plague would have to be Black Magic based, obviously. But morover I'm sure it and inhibit TP would serve the same effect, which would be essentially "Slow" on TP gain. We'd obviously end up sharing these debuffs with BLM at the very least.

"Refect" can work a lot like blink/aquaveil except it returns damage to the opponent a specific number of times. Have it only work on single target spells and you have your balancing.

Not sure on "Stop" though I like the concept.

I'd like to see a form of Confusion and I'd give it one of two pourposes.

1. Randomly makes the opponent inflict damage/target themselves for an action, works on spells and TP moves.
2. Have it work like "Hesitation" in that it causes a damage/effect reduction and a "Use" increase time on TP moves specifically. (Think a TP version of addle.)

Supersun

07-31-2011, 06:04 AM

Well what ways are in the game atm for hindering TP attacks?

Inhibit type effects that work as an anti-store TP
Subtle Blow that reduces how much it receives from being hit.
Plague that drains TP per sec.

Out of those I'd probably say Inhibits the best since it reduces it by a set percentage though you won't really see much of an effect till the mob is under 25% HP.

One interesting idea might be to create a negative TP bonus effect where it works the opposite of TP bonus. There might be an issue where the game couldn't calculate TP below 100 from the effect, but maybe the solution is to not let the monster TP attack until it reaches the equivalent of 100 TP. If you have the gear to make your negative TP bonus -50 from your gear then the monster won't be able to WS until 150 TP and it'll be treated as 100 TP.

Now this might not even be possible as this might cause some small issues in PvP ect as they would likely have to create the staus effect to be usable on players which could be a pain, but if that could work it would certainly be a powerful effect that could hinder the enemies TP attacks.

Rayik

08-02-2011, 10:22 PM

Rayik

08-02-2011, 10:48 PM

I'm in agreement about TP inhibition being a much needed direction our enfeebles need to go. It might even give other jobs some "breathing room" to melee a bit more often if TP Feed doesn't become as much of a huge scare as it is now. We've need Amnesia as a spell for a long time, but even something to simply reduce TP like Stop and Inhibit you guys mentioned above, sound like wonderful ideas, that are long overdue. Slow/Para/Blind just isn't cutting it anymore.

Aliekber

08-04-2011, 06:45 AM

Regarding Sphere-style buffs from earlier, they could either be restricted to buffs that aren't overwritten by debuffs (think Refresh or Enspell vs. Haste or Attack Up which can be overwritten by debuffs), or put at a 0-priority level (so even low-priority Slows would overwrite Haste). A possible bonus would be that even though debuffs can overwrite them, a Slow wouldn't need to be Erased + Re-Hasted, you would just Erase and the Sphere effect would take over once the negative status is gone (similar to how Aura debuffs on Abyssea NMs reassert themselves immediately after your Paralyna, etc.).

Also, a Sphere-spell doesn't necessarily have to be Self-targeted, so they wouldn't have to be worthless on stuff you won't want a RDM close to the mob on, although it wouldn't be unreasonable for the buffs to receive some sort of bonus for being 'Sphere'd from the RDM who cast them for those times where a RDM can be in AoE without detriment.

Aliekber

08-04-2011, 07:39 AM

Expanding on the above post, making Sphere buffs Single-Target (instead of Self-Target), but restricted to one per player (and party-only) makes a lot of sense. It's a different paradigm than BRD and COR's buffs, which stay on each target as long as they were in AoE at time-of-buff but are limited to two at a time (3 for Empyrean BRDs, and apparently upcoming 3 for CORs). Instead, the buff spell is cast once on a party member, and other party members gain the buff when close to that party member, so Sphere buffs are highly-effective when the group being buffed is close together *and will stay close together* for the duration of the event, unlike BRD and COR buffs, where the group only has to be close together once every X minutes for reapplication. When the group is diffuse, our existing single-target buffs would be a better choice. This does nothing to enhance our solo game, so SE shouldn't have any fears in implementing something like it.

It would allow RDM to Haste Sphere the Tank, <SubtleBlowBuff> Sphere DD1, Enthunder Sphere DD2, Regain Sphere DD3, Refresh Sphere on self (and stand by the WHM). This would free up time for enfeebling on tough stuff, or melee on lower-grade mobs (or whatever else needs to be done).

This is assuming SE intends to really run with the Enhancing / Enfeebling Master role they outlined in their manifesto, naturally.

Doombringer

08-04-2011, 08:23 AM

i think i'd rather the spheres (that what we're calling aura's now?) be self target, in hopes that composure can buff there duration and REALLY take a chunk out of the constant bot-like casting

or at least not restricted to 1 per player, that way you get the best of both worlds. could composure them onto yourself for duration, or put it on someone else for range.

Doombringer

08-04-2011, 08:32 AM

also, what about a more direct tp related spell? i got to thinking about how sometimes, when i've gone to lowman seal nm's or whatnot, i'd /drk just to spam absorb-tp. even if that tp just goes to waste 5 second later to a staff swap, that's still tp the mob missed out on.

would it be possible to just "nuke" the mobs tp? sorta an absorb-tp spell except we don't actually get the tp? could then give it a lower recast, and attach it to enfeebling skill instead of dark magic to make it more reliable.

or alternately... make it a higher recast with a very powerful effect.. combined with a seperate spell that is some sort of tp move addle.. you see the mob readying.. it takes a while cuz it's "addled", you fire off your tp burn, and the mob no longer has tp? bam.. no tp move (though i guess this is a similar effect to stunning it..)

i dunno i'm just pulling ideas out of my ass at this point. plague would probably be better. it's simpler. don't need to worry about using it at just the right time.

Aliekber

08-04-2011, 08:37 AM

Honestly, I think only having to cast 2-3 buff spells every ~5 mins (with full +2 bonus) is a pretty huge casting load reduction. I like the idea of "nuking" an enemy's TP, or even MP on certain mobs (inb4 Chainspell nuking all of Kirin's MP and kiting him around the room with a stick for fun).

Supersun

08-04-2011, 08:47 AM

There are a few BIG problems with casting auras on other people.

First is that pretty much kills any future hope for Rdm melee as any mage aura spells pretty much anchor us within the aura surrounding the mages.

Second is that these would pretty much essentially amount to cycles on crack. I mean if there's a limit of one per player then the party will likely demand that each player has one. You thought mindlessly spamming haste in a party was bad these would be 1000x times worse as I can't imagine a spell like this being quick to cast OR cheap on the MP.

I think one per player is way too many. I mean they would have to take into account that one job is giving 6 different "AoE" buffs. The buffs would have to be so saturated that they would be shadows of the originals which would kinda defeat the purpose of the idea.

If sphere type buffs were cast on other players there would need to be a great deal of restriction if they are to retain the full power of the normal spell.

Aliekber

08-04-2011, 09:15 AM

If you need mage buffs other than your own Composured ones (A.K.A. on hard stuff), you'd hang back, like you already would. On stuff where you're not playing full-mage you can frontline, like you already could. If anything it'd help with meleeing, but the main point is to get rid of (in this case, drastically reduce) cycles, not because it will make the job stronger as a mage or as a melee, but because cycles are boring. Since they're revamping Merits, they could give Enhancing Duration Increase merits, or make Ensphere a JA with a 2 minute cooldown and -5 sec per merit, allowing us to only Sphere a few buffs.

Secondly, not all the Sphere buffs have to be godly. Haste Sphere is an obvious one, as is Refresh Sphere, but other than that, what do we have to give? Phalanx Sphere, Enspell Sphere, Regen Sphere? In a serious DD party (outside Abyssea, natch), you're going to have at least a Bard there with you, which means you're giving at best 4 Sphere buffs (because you'll have at most 4 DDs to cast on). One will be Haste (and if it has less potency than normal Haste, there's no point to it), one will probably be Enspell, and the other two would likely be nothing fancier than Regen or Subtle Blow (and that's if we're lucky and get a Subtle Blow spell).

Alternatively, they can stop monkeying around and just make Haste and Refresh II Accessionable like they already should be.

Supersun

08-04-2011, 09:34 AM

If there are any sphere spells that are mage specific that we don't have a single self target versions of then yeah, we would be tied to the back.

If we do have single target self spells then there's not an issue :D

Karbuncle

08-04-2011, 12:18 PM

Well, the idea is to give mage a boost to its mage side.

If it hinders Melee chances it not catastrophe here, As long as it doesn't nerf any current mechanics to melee. If it Nerfs something, Then its a problem, If its just an improvement to one side that may limit another I don't see it as a big problem so long as the benefit outweighs the cost.

Supersun

08-04-2011, 12:31 PM

Yeah, but we're smart.

We can easily think of a way that equally benefits both sides.

Karbuncle

08-04-2011, 12:42 PM

Doing both simply keeps it mediocre at both when it comes down to "balancing".

Karbuncle

08-04-2011, 12:44 PM

And not to sound like a douche or anything but theres a 50 some odd page RDM melee thread you can discuss it there. I'd rather not have this thread degenerate to bickering like that thread has.

And you know as well as i do what will happen if this starts becoming RDM melee discussion. I can deal with it, but its inevitable the other crowd will come and bicker and degenerate it.

If you want to discuss RDM melee and its effect, you have a thread, I ask you to not turn this one into it as well. Because we all know what will happen.

Greatguardian

08-04-2011, 12:47 PM

Until we see people fielding suggestions in the melee thread about how to buff Magical Red Mage at an equal level to the buffs they're talking about giving to Melee, you can throw that "equal benefit" right out the window. This thread is about Magic. Aura effects would be awesome, but are really, really not Red Mage's style. They are pretty much only single-target spells, and that is likely never going to change due to balancing issues.

I don't want to get lost in neverneverland where the penultimate obscenely overpowered Mage class of FFXI suddenly needs Aura buffs and Ultima. We're not that poorly off. Small, unique tweaks and abilities that enhance what already makes us good would be ideal.

To that end, a legit Phalanx 2 would be awesome. Self-target, with higher damage mitigation and a more 99-balanced skill/potency cap. Gravity II would be awesome, and appears to already be in the works. I'd love to see Rdms get access to Break, even if its usage is limited to mostly fodder crap. Aside from that, being able to inhibit TP in some way may be useful. I believe that's a niche thing for a few other jobs right now, so that may not be possible. It would be cool, though.

An Amnesia spell would be amazing, but anything that mattered would probably just be immune so I'm not sure there's any point in adding it at all. Maybe a spell that acts similarly to Addle, but for TP moves? Forcing the monster to use TP moves either a certain % or a certain duration less frequently. This would be extremely effective on certain monsters which have permanent regain.

cidbahamut

08-04-2011, 01:17 PM

We already have access to Break...

Aliekber

08-04-2011, 01:43 PM

I don't want to get lost in neverneverland where the penultimate obscenely overpowered Mage class of FFXI suddenly needs Aura buffs and Ultima. We're not that poorly off. Small, unique tweaks and abilities that enhance what already makes us good would be ideal.

Well, they did nerf RDM soloing and RDM tanking pretty badly (both were very liked by me), so forgive me if I'm a little sore at the idea that RDM shouldn't get anything awesome, since we've had awesome things taken away.

They've said in the Manifesto that they want RDMs to be "Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic", so I'm running along those lines. Yeah, a full compliment of Aura buffs could be overpowered, and their manifesto vision is a bit of an exaggeration, but cutting out Haste cycles with HasteSphere (or making Haste and Refresh II Accessionable) would make the job less of a grind to play in large groups, and is pretty much a convenience boost. It's not going to lead to RDM Tank 2.0, or more bind-kite/pinning solos--the fear of which, let's be honest, is what really stops the devs from giving RDM more. They seem to like the duration enhancements angle, so taking that to its conclusion would be a great alternative (the cycle you run once every 7-10 minutes is much less of an annoyance than the one that starts 40 seconds after it ends).

At any rate, I don't think the job needs to be made more powerful as much as it needs to be made less of a chore. I like being a support, but Haste/Refresh cycles really suck. They're not even a little fun in the way that COR rolls are, with its blackjack-esque minigame. Single-target spells meant to be cast on everyone in succession is a stupid mechanic meant to eat up your time/make you constantly concentrate (it's less fun that spot-curing, which at least is reactive and takes a small amount of skill), and is a relic of Zilart-era design. If what I really wanted was to run a cycle, I'd get a second job flipping burgers and at least get paid for it.

Other thoughts:

- There seems to be a bit of schadenfreude from other mage job mains, who like to see RDMs not get what they want after years of being neglected themselves. Everyone can get cool buffs--no, really! It wouldn't be the end of the world.

- Camate has said in the past not to hold back and refrain from posting job suggestions just because they're overpowered, so that's what I did. Who knows, maybe something useful will come of it.

Supersun

08-04-2011, 01:54 PM

I worded what I meant poorly. Like I said, if we had single target versions of all of the sphere spells there wouldn't be a problem. If the mechanic itself shouldn't anchor Rdm to the back. SE so far has been pretty careful adding things that are equally useful to the front and the back (Ie. Gain spells). Really despite all of our melee ideas I know that they are likely going to continue this trend spell-wise with maybe the exception of Enspell T3s (which is why imo Enspell T3s needs to be beast).

We are going to need more then just a small minor tweak to stop our white magic side being almost entirely subbable at 99. Where if Sch and Blm sub Rdm the only thing we can really bring to the table are T2 enspells and enfeebles. Where Brd/Rdm pretty much stomps our supporting ability.

I think you slightly overestimate our current power. Sure we are durable job that can solo well (though I don't think we can necessarily call ourselves the uncontested best soloer anymore), but our situations in parties is not looking so bright. Refresh II isn't enough of a niche to earn us a place by itself considering there are jobs that are much better at it and the matter is only going to get worse and worse as the few remaining things that people are going to invite us into a party for are mostly going to be all subbable by 99.

A 10% better slow over a white mage isn't going to cut it. All of your suggested spells will only enhance our soloing at best. SE is really going to need to run with the enfeebling ball if they want to keep Rdm viable, and like mentioned before a way to mitigate TP attacks is the first thing that needs to be addressed.

That TP move addle idea seems to be pretty popular though. The only problem I see with that is either that new NMs would almost have to be factory made immune to stun or the TP delay wouldn't ever be anything significant.

Even with monsters being immune to stun though it's still a powerful ability. SE can go a bit crazier with their TP attacks knowing that as long as a the TP move addle is up and it adds enough of a delay that players can survive. As long as players are paying attention a spell like this could give players just enough time to gear swap into PDT or MDT gear. That by itself is more powerful then any other spell they can likely add for us to deal with TP attacks, it lets SE go a bit crazier with their TP attacks with that expectation in mind, and, given your connection isn't terrible, adds a new dimension of skill where if you die it's likely because you weren't paying attention and didn't switch your gear.

Also, we have Break though I'm pretty sure I know what you meant.

Edit: I am in agreement wit the cycle elimination. Like I've said before. cycling one spell over and over isn't a fun mechanic. I mean if WoW got rid of Plds cycles within like its first expansion you know there's a problem with the mechanic.

Besides, like mentioned, don't hold something back because you think it's overpowered. An idea itself can't be overpowered and can be worked around to be balanced.

Seriha

08-04-2011, 03:09 PM

And not to sound like a douche or anything but theres a 50 some odd page RDM melee thread you can discuss it there. I'd rather not have this thread degenerate to bickering like that thread has.While I'll say the following and pretty much leave it at that, the melee side does have a legitimate concern in that if being pure caster is too good, then yes, it is the melee death knell. I'm sure there are some sitting there reading this maliciously craving for that just to shut us up, watch us squirm, or whatever, but we've been teetering on that for a long time.

Overall, you should know I'm for longer, potentially better buffs. I feel like Saboteur should function more like Nightengale/Troubador in that for 1m after being used, any enfeeble cast will get the boosted effect instead of being a one-shot. Future debuffs could also come in layering effects, or even current ones tweaked as such so multiple RDMs could buff up and sustain an enfeeble on a given mob much like DNC Steps.

Just gonna copy/paste my old post from the new enfeebling magic thread that came up a while back. Some are pretty basic. Some, maybe not.

Rayik

08-04-2011, 09:07 PM

We already have access to Break...

We do, and it sucks. Not even worth casting on fodder. Almost anything worthwhile I cast it on turns out to be flat out immune, or it wears off instantly. I've had better success with Sleep than this spell. And yes, capped and merited Enfeebling skill with M.Acc gear and atmas.

I wish SE would reevaluate NM's immunity to the bulk of what our specialty is supposed to be. Players are duoing zone bosses with very little difficulty, so why purposely keep giving NM's these broken mechanics? The "challenge" of most NM's is laughable at this point, so why keep shutting us out of contributing to the fight? If something simply requires an obscene amount of M.Acc, then that's fine; at least it's attainable. But every NM being immune to everything but slow/para/blind is really aggravating, and some NM's are even immune/highly resistant to those.

For as much as SE supposedly doesn't want RDM's to wind up as healbots again, they sure have a funny way of showing it.

Neisan_Quetz

08-04-2011, 09:31 PM

Rayik

08-04-2011, 09:39 PM

It wears quickly if the mob is getting hit, while only useful on most fodder mobs (it actually lands on some RotZ Nms, I haven't seen it land on any other Nms but haven't really tried) it certainly doesn't wear instantly.

Agreed on the second points but SE did say they were looking into it, going back to old areas and finding shit is flat out immune is aggravating. I've had better luck enfeebling Zone bosses than in Wotg...

Didn't know about it wearing if it's getting hit. That makes sense, as I'm usually in a party with DD's attacking what I cast it on. But, this being the case, what's the point of the spell then? Cast Break and then run away? It's the same effect as Sleep. I know when a mob casts break on me, it takes it's sweet time wearing off, even as the mob pummels me.

cidbahamut

08-04-2011, 10:34 PM

Break is more like an earth-based sleep than it is a petrify effect. It's what you use on undead or when all your other crowd control timers are down.

If it had the same potency as it does for mobs I think we'd see hordes of Red Mages running Break cycles on anything that wasn't outright immune to it, so it kind of makes sense in that regard. Doesn't change the fact that it's still dumb how NMs are immune to everything other than Blind/Paralyze/Slow.

Alkimi

08-04-2011, 11:55 PM

It's useful for keeping things 'asleep'.

One glaring example is the avatars on new dynamis summoner NMs. Once sleep wears they'll immediately astral flow, but chuck break on before it wakes and you can safely resleep without needing stuff like spellcast to time your spells accurately. Edit: As long as it isn't Garuda or Titan.

It also stacks with Manifestation so is very useful for keeping a large group of mobs 'asleep' safely without them beating you to death the second they wake up.

Rayik

08-05-2011, 12:17 AM

Merton9999

08-05-2011, 10:41 AM

Break also keeps mobs "slept" if they have a DOT on them. There's a small chance the DOT will wake it but not 100% like Sleep - I have pretty good luck with this, and it's the biggest reason I like Break. Even just soloing, I can keep Dia/Poison on the mob and still be able to break it for a few seconds if I happen to need a breather to turn and re-apply buffs or cure. Also, I'm never opposed to any additional form of sleep on a separate timer to keep a mob no one is fighting at bay.

I'm a huge fan of Stop as proposed in this thread - stopping time-based effects on the mob rather than the mob itself. It's a great way to inhibit regain, regen, refresh on mobs as mentioned, and goes along with the concept of Addle - NMs are immune to silence so let us go 1/10 of the way. NMs would likely be immune to Amnesia, so let us go part of the way with Stop.

I've also always wanted Reflect in this game. The classic argument against it is the mob will be resistant/immune/absorb the element they cast. So, sorry to say it here, that's why I want a Reflect for SCH that changes the element of the reflected spell into the weather currently on the reflecting player...

Hyrist

08-05-2011, 10:46 PM

While I'll say the following and pretty much leave it at that, the melee side does have a legitimate concern in that if being pure caster is too good, then yes, it is the melee death knell. I'm sure there are some sitting there reading this maliciously craving for that just to shut us up, watch us squirm, or whatever, but we've been teetering on that for a long time.

First is that pretty much kills any future hope for Rdm melee as any mage aura spells pretty much anchor us within the aura surrounding the mages.

I disagree with these sentiments.

To be frank, our performance is rather independent of the buffs we would place on any mages. And, as the track record shows with AF3+2s and composure, any streamlining to our casting ability is a benefit to us in the front lines.

We aren't required to be in the back lines to soak up an aura we give them, we have our own versions or Refresh II, etc that we can cast on our selves for longer duration. If anything, an aura independent of casting on ourselves makes it easier for us to front line, and maintain front line buffs, as all we need to do is Aura a Melee with the buff, and soak it up ourselves to keep and eye on it running, or simply to spare us casting it on ourselves.

But I am also keeping in mind that this is done in tandem with separate Melee buffs that would stand on their own merits. Again this was a focus for our mage aspects, which I believe need a serious streamlining, particularly in situations in which the monster dies too quickly to make the constant application of debuffs to be cost effective.

For higher NM struggles, they've already told us we're receiving new debuffs and better resistance checks. I'm awaiting more information on that before I comment further.

SpankWustler

08-12-2011, 06:16 AM

I guess I'll toss out a few enhancing ideas, since that was also mentioned in the manifesto.

I suspect these concepts have been mentioned by somebody already, since they are far from inventive.

Wall - White Magic - Enhancing Magic: Would provide 10%-25% -Physical Damage Taken depending on skill level.

Barrier - White Magic - Enhancing Magic: Would provide 10%-25% -Magical Damage Taken depending on skill level.

Single target, immune to the scholarly wiles of Ascension, one would overwrite the other. Going right past the -50% cap would be pretty nuts, so maybe it could be a separate value so a bro or bro-ette with -50% Damage Taken would end up with rounabouts 37.5% damage taken. Or they could just work towards the current cap and not overwrite one another.

Modifying -% Damage Taken is a pretty big deal, so I'm not really sure what would make this sort of ability balanced.

Blink II, Stoneskin II - Able to be cast on others something something. Higher caps than the tier I spells something something. Not less potent than the tier I spells like Phalanx II was when it was first introduced something something.

Not very inventive, but giving someone 4 Blink images or 500+ HP of Stoneskin would be helpful. Well, not so much the four Blink images, but I won't rob SE of the pleasure of adding a useless spell here and again. Currently, one of the strongest Stoneskin effects in the game comes from Cure V or VI with a Orison Bliaud +2 equipped, and that just strikes me as weird.

As for enfeebles, just making the current set actually work on the majority of Notorious Monsters would go a long way. Even if the effect of a good dMND value was halved on said Notorious Monsters or something, that would be far better than just making lots of stuff flat-out immune.

Failing that, more enfeebles with subtle effects like Addle that actually work on even the most notorious of Notorious Monsters would be okay. Something like:

Old/Age/Cripple/Fatten/Clinical Depression due to Reading the Official Forums/I am Not Good at Naming Things - White Magic - Enfeebling: Lowers the target's STR, DEX, VIT, and AGI.

Muddle/Befuddle/Bamboozle/Mental Disorder and Disarray due to Posting on the Official Forums/I am Still Not Good at Naming Things - White Magic - Enfeebling: Lower's the target's INT, MND, and CHR.

Even if the effect of both of these could go up to -30 or even -50 for the monster for all aforementioned stats, they wouldn't drastically change a fight the way a high Slow value or Silence potentially could. The monster would just do less damage and take more damage.

Or just let good enfeebles work almost normally on Notorious Monsters, the same way everything else worthwhile does. I fear that's too much to ask for, though.

Also...

En-Not-Horrible: Provides an Accuracy and Attack bonus based on enhancing magic skill ON CAST and deals a percentage of damage dealt by melee hits as an additional effect. Maybe 50%. I don't know. My goal is to envision En-Not-Horrible, not En-Really-Good, so I can't say I've ruminated on it greatly.

Supersun

08-12-2011, 08:22 AM

Another random idea.

Encure -Additional effect: heals the target you are attacking

"This isn't anything new. Encure has been suggested many times before and it would be nearly impossible to impliment because they would have to adjust the auto-attack feature to work on players"

Who said that this spell goes on players. Why not make this enfeebling magic that you cast on the monster so that whoever the monster is attacking they cure with an additional effect as well.

Now I'll admit this spell isn't exactly the most practical thing in the world since you aren't going to be getting hit by anything significant worth fighting, but the idea was just too priceless not to post :P

Ketaru

08-12-2011, 08:57 AM

I thought I'd see who would entertain this idea after casually mentioning it one of the melee threads. But would anybody care to see spells that enhance player pets? I'm not going to lie and say I don't have a vested interest in such a thing happening, since one of my main jobs is a pet job, and one that most power players view as inefficient at that (BST).

But SE did say they are pushing to give all jobs endgame relevance. What better way to start than to end this nonsense of how pet jobs don't get the full benefits of enhancers? And what better way to push RDM in the Enhancer direction than to start making it so the job can work together with all types of jobs?

Maybe spells that grant -PDT% to pets? Or increase pet MAB? Or heaven forbid. Cure pets. Finally give some weight to the idea of sending disposable NPCs rather than living breathing players to their deaths that they can come back virtually unweakened from.

EDIT: Thought I'd throw out some ideas I thought about while trying to get some sleep. In general, I'm not a fan of posting concrete ideas because the only consistent thing about updates is that they're never as good or as bad as you think they are. But here goes:

Animist
Decreases the amount of damage taken by a target player's pet and enhances all restorative effects on their pet.

Ogre's Command
Increase's the Attack and attack speed of a target player's pet.

Medium
Confers Stoneskin and Blink effects unto a player's pet and increases the pet's Magic Attack Bonus.

Economizer

08-12-2011, 03:56 PM

Lots of good ideas here, but I'd like to reply to something I noticed.

Ha, 19% Haste may be a biiiit broken (and simultaneously gimp every other mage in the game). I'd definitely take 10% Duration per upgrade, though. That seems to be the direction the Devs are leaning as far as reducing support casting burden goes. I doubt anyone would complain about casting Haste less often.

Perhaps adding these as job traits would be good, or perhaps not (would 4% extra Haste be broken?), but the Red Mage AF3+2 set, and the AF3 cape already augment duration, and while they aren't as amazing as the 3x duration bonus Composure does on self, it does all add up to a 1.65x duration on people you cast on.

I'd really just appreciate an increase to maximum debuff potency at this point, though. It's a problem a lot of jobs are facing, really. Potency caps were built around level 75, where hitting cap was actually decently difficult on some/most things and for some/most people. A steady increase in player stats and available gear without an increase to maximum dMND is odd. SE already addressed some of this with their tweaks to maximum buff potency, so I'd imagine that a tweak to maximum debuff potency is forthcoming.

Again, maybe this would be a good change, particularly with Mind caps being increased, but between Saboteur and AF3+2 set effects, you get a straight 10% buff to enfeebling effects in general, and an additional 20% to duration and effect if you use Saboteur.

-

All that said, Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II would all be welcome additions, but SE should give them to both Red Mage and White Mage, and to emphasize that Red Mage is the better Enhancer, make these spells rely heavily on Enhancing Magic skill, including Haste. (I admit, I have a bit of an agenda here, part of it being to punish people who burn a White Mage mule and bring it to events then complain when it gets all their drops.) Having undercapped skill would ideally make Haste II about as effective as Haste. Even more ideally, the recast on the spell won't be 20 years, especially if you don't have Fast Cast or you have Composure up.

While we're at it, perhaps Red Mage should get a boost to Enhancing Magic Skill ranking from B+ to A- or higher. Having Scholars be able to Light Arts their way to equal skill is never something enjoyable. Alternatively, give Red Mage a job trait that boosts Enhancing Magic by a set number.

georgcantor316

08-12-2011, 05:24 PM

One way to address the dilemma of not being able to stick enfeebles on Higher NMs that I'd like to see that wouldn't break the balance is to have an 'uber' enfeeble spell castable only under two-hour like SCH's soon to be Brave spell. An enfeeble with multiple and strong effects that last for a significant amount of time that would have high magic acc.. This would allow RDM to enfeeble the NM while restricting other jobs from being able to and at the same time it doesn't allow the RDM to get all uber enfeebler due to the limitation of a 2hour recast.

Seriha

08-12-2011, 06:25 PM

While I'm okay with pet buffs or a Stoneskin II we could cast on others and such, for the love of all that's holy, DO NOT let their base durations be 3 minutes or less. Anything less than 5 would just be aggravating, 10 more of an ideal before you start introducing set bonuses. Heck, I'd be happy with a Haste equivalent that costs 80 MP and starts at 6m.

Crimson_Slasher

08-18-2011, 08:02 PM

You know, i been thinking some lately, and i have an interesting idea for increasing our cure and enhancing potency in one bundle, and making the other curing jobs feel a bit more love. Im thinking taking a page from blu, and doing it one better, sorta. Personally i love to melee on rdm, but if i am forced to be heal support the worst thing to do is ride cure IV/III timers, even fastcast stacked, can be a bit tedius and unpleasant, anyway onto my thought process and idea.

Elemental cures.
Why? Well white magic is notoriously bland (in a element scheme) Of most the good white magic being light element, black mage on the other hand has 6 elements to cycle, and atop that has multiple tiers and still some great other spells to cast. Now what im thinking would be sorta one spell for each of the classes that has cure IV, heck we could even add one to blm (not required but im on a roll so dont kill my buzz just yet!) Anyway what i did was looked at Affalatus Solace, and Plenilune embrace, both offer cures with a specialized buff, so why not make a line of cures that do something similar? Lets see what i can come up with... Im not gonna bother adding names and this is kinda for all jobs but i thought of it thinking as a rdm and for rdm.

Earth-Cure: Lets say 30-60 seconds of physical damage taken -5% or -10%.
Water-Cure: Lets go with status removal, similar to erase, seems like a prime RDM candidate.
Wind-Cure: Hows about a 5% haste effect? A single blink image? An Eva boost? Not too sure yet.
Lightning-Cure: Since so many people link crit rate/dmg to this, that could work, again, short durations like 30-45 seconds
Ice-Cure: Hows about some short duration ice-spikes? Or maybe MDT-%?
Fire-Cure: Perhaps a ws damage bonus or multi-attack effect for the duration?
Dark-Cure: Grant maybe some sorta weak dreadspikes with ultra-short (20 second) duration?

How are these practical? More cures, separate timers, and offering blm/drk an emergency (self target perhaps for them?) only cure, it can be based on dark magic skill if anyone cares. Also it adds some unique (possibly battle swaying) effects to make healing dynamic, now i dont expect any job to have all/most/any of these, im thinking 1 per job.
Perhaps whm gets earth, rdm gets fire or water, sch gets wind or lightning, pld could get earth or ice possibly too if someone minds, and so-forth, it would be too powerful to grant all to any one job, however another idea i had going with typing this would be to turn it another way, making it a cure IV equivolent (more mp cost was implied before but keeps with this idea) which grants a bonus effect based on the game day, similar to what i listed. Could twist it again and make weather take over for it too but if sch got it then, with storm surge they could have some pretty simple aoe power-buffing... Just a musing i came up with.

Supersun

08-19-2011, 09:23 AM

Elemental cures are actually an interesting concept.

If I were to add them I would likely give them all to one job (Rdm since that's the only job that can cast black and white magic at any time at a decent level of proficiency) then have them cure around as much as Cure 4 does now and give them like 3x the recast.

That should already triple our HPS ability without treading onto whms ability. I might change the buffs on them slightly so we aren't expected to be curing someone every time the cures are up even though someone may be at full HP, probably more defensive buffs in nature.

There's a lot of different ways you could toy with this concept. It's an interesting idea.

Daniel_Hatcher

08-19-2011, 05:32 PM

All that said, Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II would all be welcome additions, but SE should give them to both Red Mage and White Mage.

I disagree, Every job has it's own spells to capitalise on the jobs strengths. SE keep saying RDM is the Enhancer when it has less Enhancing spells than most other jobs, and they're always self-target only.

Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II if added should be RDM alone. If they're into giving WHM anything since they've decided to give them AoE give them Hastega and that's it.

While we're at it, perhaps Red Mage should get a boost to Enhancing Magic Skill ranking from B+ to A- or higher. Having Scholars be able to Light Arts their way to equal skill is never something enjoyable. Alternatively, give Red Mage a job trait that boosts Enhancing Magic by a set number.I think an addition as said on this forum before via Merits would be good and still allow people to customise their RDM..

Enhancing Magic effect -- 1->5
Enhancing Magic duration -- 1->5 (Each rank increases duration by 10%)

I agree about the A- rank

Supersun

08-19-2011, 06:43 PM

Haste II is just bad for the game in general lol.

Karbuncle

08-19-2011, 08:21 PM

Not really, Could simply be 20% Haste, Does not stack with Haste 1. 5% More potency won't break the game when theres already a haste cap.

Plus Magic Haste is the easiest to reach thanks to Marches. 5% more toward reaching that easier wouldn't go overboard.

Karbuncle

08-19-2011, 08:31 PM

Spontaneity (Lv. 95)
Reduces casting time for the next magic spell the target casts.

Looks like they listened and gave us "Quick Cast" as a Job abitlity :)!

Temper (RDM Lv. 95)
Grants the ability to occasionally attack twice.

:Q i hope its potent.

Seriha

08-19-2011, 08:53 PM

Hoping Temper is at least 15%, possibly scaling higher with Enhancing skill. Such is a type of spell I've pined for in the past largely to graduate us past Joyeuse or other multi-hitters. For those that have access to CDC, it'll certainly help there, too.

And, well, hey... Raise II. Won't complain about that.

Daniel_Hatcher

08-19-2011, 08:57 PM

I see RDM gets a Double attack spell this update, yay!!

Hyrist

08-19-2011, 09:39 PM

My wonder will be whether or not it's acessionable...

Karbuncle

08-19-2011, 09:49 PM

My curiosity is if it will be Target-able on other players at all.

Otherwise its a nice novelty to RDM melee but not much else. Accession would help though?

Rayik

08-19-2011, 10:06 PM

Don't forget Gain-STR

Crimson_Slasher

08-19-2011, 10:28 PM

All in all, im pleased by this update. However the question, where will they stick these spells? update abyssea coffers? Voidwatch rewards? Or npc only? Must ponder this...

Daniel_Hatcher

08-19-2011, 11:03 PM

My curiosity is if it will be Target-able on other players at all.

Otherwise its a nice novelty to RDM melee but not much else. Accession would help though?

Someone on FFXIAH made a good point, this could be their "new" type of Enspell.

Kensagaku

08-20-2011, 01:54 AM

That's always a possibility, though I hope not. I'm praying you can target others, or Accession+Temper. Those combos could be potent, but at the same time it could also overpower already potent melee units. I can hope, but I would not be surprised if it's "the new enspell" as has been mentioned.

Also, annoyed at no Cure V. Hate you too SE, good job. Raise II in an environment where we get the EXP back in like three kills tops? Yeah, that's so useful. Also they gave Addle to BRD and WHM; that makes me sad. The former not so much, they needed some offensive songs besides Requiems that won't land and Elegy. The latter? You guys get all the cure spells, decent enfeebles since a lot are modified by MND, and now you're bumping into RDM territory. Not cool. D:

Blah. All the mad aside, we sorta got shafted. The Quick Cast JA is decent, and Temper has potential. Blizzard IV will prolly still be our Abyssea nuke with Beyond, but Thunder IV could be nice outside. Raise II? Underwhelming. Gain-STR? Melee RDM toy. Honestly until I see some decent numbers from Savage Blade/Death Blossom, I'm sticking with a dagger and Evisceration; I have a lot of DEX gear lying around that my RDM can use. Gain-DEX please, tyvm, especially for the RDMs with CDC.

I hope Temper makes up for all of this. :(

Stylin

08-20-2011, 02:18 AM

It's a little strange they're choosing to cram Gain-Int into the 96-99 gap with Gain-Dex.

Seriha

08-20-2011, 02:26 AM

Well, they deviated with Gain-CHR, so not too surprised.

cidbahamut

08-20-2011, 02:54 AM

White Mage being given Addle felt like a kick below the belt. We're supposed to be on top of the enfeebling thing right? Does SE realize there's more to that than just having an A+ skill rating?

cidbahamut

09-12-2011, 10:39 PM

This thread needs some love and I had an idea this morning. Probably a bad one but just run with it.

What if our tiered enfeebles stacked with each other? Like, you can cast Slow and then stack Slow II on top of it. It wouldn't really fix the problem of mob TP moves, but I think it'd be a pretty damn cool trick, and might even make Blind II worth meriting.

The chatlog would be kinda weird though if they wore off separately. 'paralyze effect wears off', well which one? Ideally it would work so that the first tier simply acts as a boost effect to the second tier so there's really only one effect on it.

Example because I lack linguistic clarity:

Slow: X%
Slow II: Y%

Slow > Slow II: X% + Y%, duration based on Slow II.
Slow II > Slow: Y% because you didn't prep the mob with Slow to boost Slow II.

Rayik

09-12-2011, 10:58 PM

Shiyo

09-12-2011, 11:14 PM

RDM definitely should have a stronger haste than WHM(and especially /whm). In real events the RDM will end up being the one casting haste because of our af3+2 set bonus, so ours should also be stronger. 4-5% stronger is not game breaking and will help RDM a lot more than anyone thinks.

Giving RDM a plague, amnesia, and inhibit TP(Like yurin) enfeeble will also make them the masters of enfeebling and incredibly useful again.

These two things, as well as not making monsters immune to our enfeebles(they can be immune to every other jobs who cares), a cure4 2.0 so we can cure - > cure4.5 instead of having to lolcure3 and a few more cool/powerful/strong enhancing magic buffs for party members would make RDM perfect.

Any RDM complaining about haste/refresh cycles seriously needs to play another job. That's like a bard complaining about song cycles(which last MUCH shorter and require you to position properly or single target with pianissimo).

Hyrist

09-13-2011, 12:07 AM

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

The base differences between RDM and BRD.

BRD is 90% Buffs.
BRD's buffs are the majority AoE BY DEFAULT. So having to cast them on a shorter duration is offset by the fact that they don't have to cast March on 6 people individually (Twice for double March), then Ballad on 6 people individually.

Imagine ONLY Panissimo. With Bard, with ALL of their buffs and debuffs. Then add in MP mechanics.

Until there are better mechanics (MORE than just Composure) surrounding RDM's Buff spells, calling RDM anything more than primarily a self enhancer is a false statement. Haste and Refresh ARE powerful, but they are NOT a buff library suitable enough to call RDM a buffer any more than Swords make RDM a full DD Job. SE might have tried to state as such in the Manifesto, but until the deed is done, RDM does not deserve the title.

What we are is a good single target enfeeble. And I'll put my backing over spells that allow us to address issues with TP moves. Though I severely doubt we'll be getting Amnesia at this rate (nor would it work against the mobs we'd want/need it to anyways.) Plague and 'Inhibit TP' are iffy at best, but I'd put more weight behind plague.

I'm repeating myself again, but what I'd like to see is an Addle for TP moves. A passive spell effect that reduces the effect of TP moves by a growing amount, but more importantly, delays the use time, giving a larger opportunity to stun, run, or prepare defenses. It also effectively stops additional attacks while the monster is charging (if the ability has a charge time.)

I've already stated my solution as to what would make RDM a better buffer (A way to transfer buffs on themselves to an ally, bypassing the self-target mechanic so we could technically give Temper along with other stats to an ally.) While Bard DOES get Panissimo we don't rightly have a good one-target buffer in the game as of yet.

cidbahamut

09-13-2011, 12:39 AM

My first thought is that it would be overpowered. As it is, our enfeebles don't work on mobs that actually count, so the idea of stacking them, when they don't work in the first place, seems really unlikely.

But if it did work, mobs would be complete push-overs. Stacked para's and slow's alone would turn a mob into a muddled, drooling punching bag.
I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that. Stun alone does more to turn the tide of battle than our whole arsenal. I'd like Red Mage to have more stuff in its toolbox that's comparable in magnitude.

But yes, game balance is a pretty big concern and the more immediate issue is that SE keeps making everything immune or have a floored land-rate.

Rayik

09-13-2011, 12:42 AM

Rayik

09-13-2011, 12:46 AM

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

Really? Nobody has brought up bagging on buff cycles in weeks. Is Shiyo just trying to start a fight out of thin air?

cidbahamut

09-13-2011, 12:55 AM

Really? Nobody has brought up bagging on buff cycles in weeks. Is Shiyo just trying to start a fight out of thin air?

Probably.

Less cat-fighting, more brainstorming for enfeebly goodness.

Hyrist

09-13-2011, 03:06 AM

I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that.

I agree. Though I do think we can all agree that TP moves are the root cause of this problem when we take away the issue of 'Spell Immunities'.

This, and 'Auras' which seem to be a nice trend in Abyssea (Does Voidwatch have these?)

So a Debuff that would lock down Sphere effects and prevent them from taking effect would be a good idea for a new debuff, if this idea of Auras are going to be a new mechanic.

But getting back into the idea of attacking TP moves. There's only a set number of ways of doing it.

Stun prevents it (enemy keeps TP).

We have TP reducer moves (Straight TP , or DOT)

TP Gain suppression (Between Subdle blow and other BLU enfeebles.)

Max TP down is a new debuff we've seen.

Then we have "Delay increase." Alla Addle.

Alternatively, perhaps a more advanced, alternate version of stun that 'prevents' a TP attack on a timer, and causes a TP reset, would be an incredible boon for fighting TP moves.

Other Debuff categories we haven't touched?

Magic Defense reduction.

A debuff that enhances Skillchain/Burst damage.

A debuff that causes the monster to deal damage to itself rather than the party. (Could be incorporated into that "TP Killer Stun.")

I think those are enough to chew on for a while.

cidbahamut

09-13-2011, 03:46 AM

This, and 'Auras' which seem to be a nice trend in Abyssea (Does Voidwatch have these?)

So a Debuff that would lock down Sphere effects and prevent them from taking effect would be a good idea for a new debuff, if this idea of Auras are going to be a new mechanic.

See, to me that just sounds like a silly workaround to the root problem: stuff getting buffs that are basically immune to Dispel, which brings us back to square one of "we need things to not be immune, dammit". The whole point of dispel is to get rid of a foe's buffs, but now we're just seeing foes that have permanent buffs so Dispel becomes pointless.

A debuff that enhances Skillchain/Burst damage.

If they'd give skillchains an overhaul that brought them back into modern play this could be pretty fantastic. Unfortunately, Skillchains are pretty much dead at the moment aside from the classes who can self-skillchain.

For TP moves, I feel like all the ideas we've come up with trend towards simply making the TP move not happen. I think instead we might want to start gunning for something a little different. Addle reduces magic accuracy right? Why not extend that aspect to TP moves. Add something that severely reduces the potency of the TP move. They'll still be going off and TP feed is always going to be a concern, but instead of one-shotting that Tarutaru in the crossfire it'll instead knock his health in half. Just some sort of Damage Dealt -X% effect, or something along those lines.

Hyrist

09-13-2011, 03:58 AM

See, to me that just sounds like a silly workaround to the root problem: stuff getting buffs that are basically immune to Dispel, which brings us back to square one of "we need things to not be immune, dammit". The whole point of dispel is to get rid of a foe's buffs, but now we're just seeing foes that have permanent buffs so Dispel becomes pointless.

Well these buffs don't work along the same lines as dispel. As you said "Buffs that are always on." Perhaps in this case the lockdown spell can serve like a Dispel II that works for this category of ability, or even prevents the monster from receiving further bonus effects when they use an ability.

So dispel removes buffs currently on the mob, and Lockdown prevents buffs more from being placed on the mob for a certain duration.

For TP moves, I feel like all the ideas we've come up with trend towards simply making the TP move not happen. I think instead we might want to start gunning for something a little different. Addle reduces magic accuracy right? Why not extend that aspect to TP moves. Add something that severely reduces the potency of the TP move. They'll still be going off and TP feed is always going to be a concern, but instead of one-shotting that Tarutaru in the crossfire it'll instead knock his health in half. Just some sort of Damage Dealt -X% effect, or something along those lines.

Addle also delays the casting of spells, so why not extend that to delaying the use of TP moves? More time to stun, more time to get that sudden Cureskin on your tank. Gives your Melee an opportunity to get out of range, etc. I'm on board with the secondary effects as well but just giving players more time to react to incoming TP moves would be incredible.

Swords

09-13-2011, 04:04 AM

For TP moves, I feel like all the ideas we've come up with trend towards simply making the TP move not happen. I think instead we might want to start gunning for something a little different. Addle reduces magic accuracy right? Why not extend that aspect to TP moves. Add something that severely reduces the potency of the TP move. They'll still be going off and TP feed is always going to be a concern, but instead of one-shotting that Tarutaru in the crossfire it'll instead knock his health in half. Just some sort of Damage Dealt -X% effect, or something along those lines.

Could perhaps go with something along the lines of a "-TP bonus" cid. Something that wouldn't prevent TP gain or useage, but when it comes around to actually using a TP move the fTP modifiers would go down a tier. It would be ineffective for moves that have a floored fTP rate like 100% = 3.0, 200% = 3.0, 300% = 3.0, but TP moves that grow like 100% = 2.5, 200% = 3.5, 300% = 5.0 could be severely hampered.

cidbahamut

09-13-2011, 04:08 AM

I'm not saying they all have to be separate spells or anything, I'm just throwing out more ideas for us to pick through. I just don't want our only response to TP moves to end up being "don't let them happen in the first place". Heck, a spell that just outright reduced Damage Dealt by X% would be freaking amazing. I'd kill for that kind of power. And before anyone mentions Bio, I'm going to ask whether your entire alliance is subbing BLU for Cocoon. Also: all damage dealt, not just physical.

Hyrist

09-13-2011, 04:24 AM

Damage Mitigation spells we have a plenty of, though again, anything that helps reduce the effectiveness of TP attacks a little I'm all in for.

TP is the biggest crux of pain in the game and it's constantly a fear of players getting hit by these massive attacks and destructive status effects.

If there were ways to mitigate it, people might not be so paranoid in the fights themselves, and they could STILL be difficult in other ways.

You know, I just thought about something... for a WHM. A buff that prevents the next attack incoming from being lethal. (Leaves you at 1 HP instead of dieing.) That would be an awesome buff. Heck, RDM could share it.

Put it on those DDs that dive in for WSes or are afraid of heavy AoEs that could kill them.

Or a Debuff on the mob that works to the same effect. Though that won't help the massive AoE enfeebles. I'd love to hamper the mobs ability to do that Enmasse, though I suspect Addle and Barspells are supposed to try to work like that.

Crimson_Slasher

09-13-2011, 03:35 PM

I just thought up an idea, i could see a rdm, and a brd equivolent, and perhaps share it to sch, but im not sure if that would apply, but i have an idea for a fun debuff, could be balanced by duration, recast, or effect.

Parochialism - Forces special moves by target to only activate upon the target with the highest enmity.

Now this could be used for a single tp move, then wear off, or be a set duration (before resists) and have a longer recast so this cant be done all the time, though this wouldnt affect aoe spells. This could also (maybe?) prevent some shadow whiping tp moves not dispel the tank's shadows, and this is a substantially powerful party and endgame (HNM?) related enhancement.

cidbahamut

09-13-2011, 10:28 PM

I'm not sure I quite follow you CS. TP moves already target the person who has hate, or do you mean AoE TP moves would instead only hit the tank while -aga spells still hit everyone? I could see that being useful in some situations but Murphy's Law would ensure that most of the time it gets eaten up by TP moves that are already single-target.

Oh, oh, new idea!

Enfeeble that inhibits the foe's ability to inflict status ailments. Something that removes the pesky status effects that are tacked onto a bunch of TP moves. No more paralysis/doom/petrification/encumbrance/etc on top of that heavy AoE damage.

Swords

09-14-2011, 01:27 AM

Why not just ask for a Paralyze of sorts that would occasionally interrupt a TP move and still consume the TP.

SpankWustler

09-14-2011, 04:18 AM

I think an anti-TP-move spell would need to be similar to Addle, a combination of several small factors rather than one large factor, in order to not to be stupidly strong against certain monsters. Imagine how strong Addle would be if it were a huge magic accuracy penalty, or a huge casting time penalty, compared to how it is now.

Something like "-50 TP 'Anti-Bonus' and increased ready time" or "-1 TP gain and -10~25% damage dealt by TP moves" seems more likely to see the light of day than a spell that had a huge effect on just one thing.

There definitely, definitely needs to be some kind of enfeeble that affects TP move potency and frequency in some way. Currently there are tons of buffing options to deal with nasty TP moves, particularly Earthen Armor and Sentinel's Scherzo, but no enfeebling magic.

Hyrist

09-14-2011, 05:53 AM

Why not just ask for a Paralyze of sorts that would occasionally interrupt a TP move and still consume the TP.

You could simply adjust paralyze to work on TP moves in that case.

But, would you guys be ok that WSes would suddenly become subject to being paralyzed?

I mean, I'd be for the adjustment but SE probably has already thought about it.

Seriha

09-14-2011, 06:24 AM

I'd favor a more constant effect over random luck. With a WS paralyze, you'd probably still want to keep Stuns handy just to be safe, and they'd probably start casting as it started only for the stun to basically be wasted.

Mainly for increasing the ready time of TP moves (making stunning easier) while affecting their damage potential, be it some FTP manipulation or just straight damage reduction. Not sure how I'd feel about the pseudo-Convergence, since knowing SE, it might turn any AoE TP move into instant death for the single target.

As for additional effects on TP moves, there's probably some element of resisting and MACC in play, just that the mobs probably have stupid high MACC to guarantee they land most of the time. Addle may help here some, but a more potent, pure MACC debuff could do more alongside an appropriate barspell, carol(s), and gear. I'd just hate to see a point where tanks will need to start investing in resist sets for all 8 elements.

Assuming the actual spell list isn't doomed to some limit, maybe a Null-Slow and such could be added. Cast it on the target, and any time it uses that enfeeble in some capacity (Spell, WS, triggered by Aura), the "debuff" is eaten and the enfeeble doesn't happen, requiring you to cast it again to block the next one. I'd see something like this building resists akin to Grav and Stun, though, so it might be something saved for later in a mob's life with the ability to only keep one up at a time.

Hyrist

09-14-2011, 07:10 AM

The problem I see with that is, it would format a lot better as the default Null-Status and be a spell cast in target or AoE form by a whm. (Whm would probably get the AoE, we'd get the self target most likely)

Now, I can picture something like a stun-quick debuff that severely limits the damage of a TP move as it's being used, or say, reduces it's TP modifier to 0 or something along that line. But no sort of debuff to address the enemy being able to release nasty status effects on the party.

I have a feeling that sort of thing would be left to WHMs.

Ophannus

09-14-2011, 08:06 AM

An inhibit TP spell would be nice. It could be a long lasting weak effect but I'd prefer a moderately long recast(60 seconds) with a huge potency and declining effect similar to Flash. It could be a 100% TP inhibit for a few seconds and decline over time. The inhibit could also counter Regain effects comparable to the effect % at the time. So after it's worn to 50% TP inhibit after a few sec it inhibits 50% of their autoregain if they have. Another could be a plague which DoTs their MP/TP which could be sweet. The MP part is meh since mobs have THOUSANDS of MP, but the TP decay would be great!

Ophannus

09-14-2011, 08:11 AM

I'd like to see more severely potent enfeebles that are short acting but extremely devastating to the mob instead of debuffs that you're unsure if the effects are even making a difference. These debuffs wouldn't be very rarely resisted and would be extremely potent i.e DiaIII/BioIII/Flash/Stun type spells. Make Gravity 2 short lasting but have extremely potent evasion down. Keep grav1 for movement speed(not like its difficult to keep grav1 up with haste/fastcast gear, the recast is fine)

Yandaime

09-14-2011, 09:17 AM

Ive been reading several posts here and I too dont like that RDM is getting the shaft as of late in updates... Yay Temper... But I wonder if its because SE is being cautious on what to give us, I mean before Abyssea, we were pretty much the most powerful job in the game if anyone remembers. Soloing NMs and some HNMs that were meant to be taken in a full allience such as Charybdis, and Cactrot Rapido although it took 2 hours to do it, we were the only ones that could. And then there was RDM tanking which was probably a sin to begin with but we completely folded any tanking class at CE speed making us just retarded at gaining hate and with RDM's fast cast, could hold shadows better than NINs at the time.

And RDM Melee (sorry to slightly derail, just wanted to say it) isnt actually that bad, IF you have a LOT of money... I have witnessed a RDM with Almace and Kraken Club wreck house in Abyssea. Its still bad that you need a Super-Weapon and one of the most expensive items in the game just to get down on RDM but the potential is there. I think SE might be afraid of us...

Lets look at the old DD burns, when WHMs couldnt get invites, they trumped us in Curing spells but RDM MP conservation was so much higher that it was more Ideal to have a RDM curing than a WHM. As such, the likely reason we have not gotten Cure 5 is because SE might be worried that RDM would outdo WHMs again, outside of Abyssea. Dont get me wrong, I think its silly/retarded that we havent been properly updated on our spells just trying to imagine whats going on with those Developers is all...

Break/Breakga is an Enfeebling spell and should not be in the hands of a BLM, there I said it and I stand by it. Giving RDM Addle, which i dont care who you are, this spell is nice. Im an oldschool Potency RDM, so with a large stack of MND, this drastically slows down enemy spells and thats nice because these days, the number of people who know how to stun are dropping quickly. With Addle, I can do all the stunning myself (actually we RDMs always do the stunning ourselves dont we...) and since most NMs have always been Immune to Silence, I like this spell. What I DONT like is how we get this wonderful spell, after the blasphemy of BLM getting Break..., they turn right back around and hand it to WHM... What the piss? Hell, I dont care if they dont give us a new enfeebling spell, take Addle away from WHM right now, lol and Ill be happy. Im a Steamfitter with Union Local 602, and all this crap about giving jobs spells and abilities that have been with RDM since the start of the game is wrong, and its taking work away from our job, plain and simple. Its just like in the real world where we have to constantly fight for our jobs.

Im all for diversity but SCH is the single greatest insult I have ever seen to RDM, BLM, WHM, and SMN what is SE doing? lol

Well thats enough of my ranting... One thing I would like to see done to actually help our Enhancing Magic situation is to FIX Composure. When composure was released I was elated, I thought SE finally did something to end our "Robot Mode" in parties with this JA that trippled our Enhancing Magic Duration... And.. Then I learned it only works for the RDM that uses it... It comes with a hefty penalty too on your recast times but... Still only works for the RDM... So it is a JA that I NEVER use unless I'm soloing :( good job SE, doing about as well as President Bush atm, I'm proud of you. And before someone comes along saying the +2 set helps with Composure, Ill firmly say to kiss my ass lol cuz its only 1/2 the effect with the full set. I'm a RDM main, I keep an Enfeebling set, Potency Set, a Fast Cast set, and various macros for staffs for Spell Accuracy and Nuking when Kiting needs to be done, I never use a full RDM set because it never has the stuff I care about in the entire set, only bits and pieces so who's gonna have a macro to put on the full +2 for buffing? I cycle my buffs by casting Refresh on myself and then proceeding with the rest of the buffs the party needs, when my Refresh wears off, I know to start over. I believe this is how all/most RDMs also handle their buffs too so even with +2 set, Composure still does nothing but throw me off. Blah ended up ranting again when I didn't want to rant lol I guess I'm just frustrated like everyone else.

But yes, one fix I would like to see that is within the means of reality, and poses 0 threat to anyone's job/game balance/sandy crotch would be to FIX Composure. Make it so the x3 Duration applies to all Enhancing we do and not just ourselves wtf SE, you guys are retarded for that one, seriously lol. And just make the +2 set bonus Occasionally Double the Potency at 5% full set or keep the +50% Duration thing, I dont care.

Thats my 2 cents on it, thanks for taking the time to read it.

::EDIT::

Do you guys like the idea of having a way to skill Enhancing Magic faster? Like say getting skillups with En-Spell damage or something? I don't know if I am the only one that feels this way, but skilling up via bar-spell spam or soloing (cuz we cast alot of buffs when soloing) is very tedious and takes a very long time :( Any thoughts?

Shiyo

09-15-2011, 12:47 AM

Soloing NMs and some HNMs that were meant to be taken in a full allience such as Charybdis,

This is a horrible example of a mob that takes an "alliance" to kill.

AyinDygra

09-15-2011, 02:16 AM

I've considered the TP enfeeble issue and it falls in line with another thought I've had about the classic FF enfeeble/buff status (Berserk) that I've re-named for clarification to: "Enraged" (so as not to be confused with the warrior JA Berserk) which would be a combination of four effects: Attack up (stronger than JA berserk), Defense down (stronger than JA berserk), Mute & Amnesia. The duration should last long enough to make the attack up effect on normal attacks become a dangerous trade-off, and long enough for the defense down effect to be taken advantage of.

This restores the tactical advantage that the "Berserk" status had in past FF games: Enraged enemies would only attack with the "fight" command, but they'd be stronger. Enraged would be useful on enemies that cannot be stunned or silenced or have powerful AoE attacks. (Certainly some enemies would be immune, such as Iron Giants whose normal attacks are all special abilities, so it would have no auto-attacks to fall back on. However, immunities should be very rare. I'd rather see lower durations than outright immunities.)

This could also be used as an enhancing spell on party members, especially if the friendly effect can be turned off manually. (There would probably need to be two versions of the status from the same spell, depending on target: Friendly and Enemy) I could see this being very useful against Imps and other enemies with Amnesia attacks and auras where your party wouldn't be able to use their special attacks anyway.

Anyway, just a thought.