Due to the community and the way things are on this forum.

[Juri_Licious]

I kinda get this feeling that they may shut it down sometime in the near future.

[Dauntless]

Because they did something stupid and there was a backlash? If they did, it would only make the situation worse.

[Panthera]

Taking this site down wouldn't accomplish anything. There's still BG, Alla, etc, and they could just vent there instead.

See, here's the funny thing. SE wants to be able to communicate directly with its playerbase, without using a third party as a go-between; this gives them more control over the conversation. However, they want us to pay them using a third party.

[Korpg]

I kinda get this feeling that they may shut it down sometime in the near future.

How do you come to this conclusion?

[Meyi]

See, here's the funny thing. SE wants to be able to communicate directly with its playerbase, without using a third party as a go-between; this gives them more control over the conversation. However, they want us to pay them using a third party.

That and they don't reply to us as often as we'd like to be replied to. I still feel like we're talking to a wall for the most part. :<

It's kind of funny how 3rd party programs are extremely bad, but allowing 3rd party companies to handle our money is okay.

[Modoru]

It wouldn't fix anything, but eh, what can you do.

[Sparthos]

I kinda get this feeling that they may shut it down sometime in the near future.

lol?

So SE announces a new (complex) way to pay that could very well be the end of XI for many individuals and you're surprised at the response?

These boards are tame but the response is pretty equivalent to the stakes of the change.

[Terrigenesis]

yeah, I have to agree with the people that are pissed off. I've been playing since the NA start and now will have to quit the game thanks to the new payment system. I have been using my same card for over a year and the Clickandbuy system refuses my bank. Seems to me that this is an act of skirting the responsibility of their accounting department not doing their jobs to prevent getting caught in a fraud. The number one mistake you can make as a company is to inconvenience the customer, this is just bad business.

[Panthera]

It's kind of funny how 3rd party programs are extremely bad, but allowing 3rd party companies to handle our money is okay.
Oh~ho~ho~ho! Touche, sir! well played.

[Nebo]

I think a great deal of the frustration on these boards would be non existant if there was more regular and consistant communication on the issues that seem to be really important to the community.

They have a community team of forum moderators that very rarely ever engages in actual conversations. They make announcements. Sure they make light hearted jokes form time to time and I have seen a sort of specific response or two here and there...

....but this is a DISCUSSION FORUM and there are many important discussions that the community team is seemingly not encouraged or empowered to engage in.

Obviously people are going to be frustrated when they feel like they are not being actively listened to.

[Sparthos]

The mods have no information to relay to us so what other purpose than being torn apart by the mob would be served by them talking to us in a conversational manner?

Purpose of the mods is to relay information to and from the developers of the game. Nothing is served by engaging in speculation because as we know, the second a SE employee says something and it doesn't happen - heads roll.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I kinda get this feeling that they may shut it down sometime in the near future.No, they already removed the option to close it because it was being abused. ^^

[Runespider]

Due to the community and the way things are on this forum.

I kinda get this feeling that they may shut it down sometime in the near future.


Keep in mind, Square are in the wrong here. We have been loyal customers for many years and they are giving us inferior options to pay them out of nowhere. This is really unacceptable, if you value your customers you at the very least make sure the options you give them are good. What square are offering is worse than any other service I can think of, even buying off random people on Ebay is better.

[Juri_Licious]

Oh, don't get me wrong i'm not JUST blaming the community or blaming anyone.
As an observation of how other official forums have gone down.

It just reminds me of this.

[Octaviane]

Taking this site down wouldn't accomplish anything. There's still BG, Alla, etc, and they could just vent there instead.

See, here's the funny thing. SE wants to be able to communicate directly with its playerbase, without using a third party as a go-between; this gives them more control over the conversation. However, they want us to pay them using a third party.

Best answer ever to anything I have seen anywhere on this forum. :)

/clap /clap /clap!

[Kraggy]

....but this is a DISCUSSION FORUM.
I don't think SE and you view the purpose of these forums the same way. :p

From time to time those running it pass on snippets of information from the 'devs' (or whatever) and in turn they pass back to the 'devs' (or whatever) comments from us (sometimes).

I don't think SE every intended to DISCUSS anything with us. Seems to me it's like the NA and EU XIV alpha/beta forums, it was a one-way conversation; the only difference is that it seems SOMETIMES SE actually listen here, whereas their failure to listen to the XIV testers lead to the trainwreck that was XIV.

[Darkwizardzin]

OP your overreacting.... chances are they aren't gonna shut down the forums just because of this payment argument.

[Korpg]

OP your overreacting.... chances are they aren't gonna shut down the forums just because of this payment argument.

But everyone is overreacting here anyway, why would this thread be any different?

[Revanchist]

But everyone is overreacting here anyway, why would this thread be any different?

While it is true that some are overreacting to this situation, there are others who are genuinely (for lack of a better word here) 'screwed' by the current events and have only one option, which will be to quit. That's not to say they are quitting for quitting's sake or whatnot... but may be contributed to the fact that either of the available options proposed can't apply to them, due to their country of residence not having either the gamer cards or the fact that crysta isn't legally accepted as a viable payment option.

All in all (and as I've said in another thread), I don't understand why SE chose to do this without ensuring that all gamers are able to choose from one of the available options first, before forcing this upon us.

[Octaviane]

I think a great deal of the frustration on these boards would be non existant if there was more regular and consistant communication on the issues that seem to be really important to the community.

They have a community team of forum moderators that very rarely ever engages in actual conversations. They make announcements. Sure they make light hearted jokes form time to time and I have seen a sort of specific response or two here and there...

....but this is a DISCUSSION FORUM and there are many important discussions that the community team is seemingly not encouraged or empowered to engage in.

Obviously people are going to be frustrated when they feel like they are not being actively listened to.

They make closed thread announcements for a good reason. If a Mod had responded directly to all the complaints in General Discussion about the new payment requirements, he/she would have either had to close the thread immediately after posting (and how that would have pissed people off) or run the risk of being flamed by 500 + people. At least there was a response, vague to be sure, but an acknowledgement from SE that they were listening.

As for other subjects regarding actual playing of FFXI, I am sure they are limited to what they can and can't say on many different topics.

[Korpg]

While it is true that some are overreacting to this situation, there are others who are genuinely (for lack of a better word here) 'screwed' by the current events and have only one option, which will be to quit.

You mean, besides the alternative solution I have presented to everyone, which nobody has yet said that my alternative solution is horrible.

Get a prepaid card. If you can see this post, you can get a prepaid card now. Here is the link again in case you guys missed it the last 4 times (http://www.credit.com/products/credit_cards/debit.jsp).

Only thing I can see wrong with my alternative solution is that it gives people nothing to gripe about, because the "problem" they have with Click and Buy is gone. Or problem with UltimatePay is gone. Or problem with any other outsourced payment option is gone.

Hence, the mob mentality that people on this forum has developed. They want to get their pitchforks and start waving it at the monster they call SE.

[Aver]

One would still have to deal with CnB, or buy more crysta than what he/she would need to pay the month, so it effectively solves nothing. It just adds another step to the already growing process, in that you would have to load said prepaid card to submit it to whichever of the two choices you get shoehorned into to pay for access to the game.

Or, instead of making us jump through hoops, we could just get automatic direct billing for the exact amount. Sounds like a good plan to me.

(I can understand it's another layer of protection, Korpg, I know what you're trying to do. I -personally- don't want to touch CnB with a 39.5 ft pole.)

[Korpg]

One would still have to deal with CnB, or buy more crysta than what he/she would need to pay the month, so it effectively solves nothing. It just adds another step to the already growing process, in that you would have to load said prepaid card to submit it to whichever of the two choices you get shoehorned into to pay for access to the game.

Or, instead of making us jump through hoops, we could just get automatic direct billing for the exact amount. Sounds like a good plan to me.

(I can understand it's another layer of protection, Korpg, I know what you're trying to do. I -personally- don't want to touch CnB with a 39.5 ft pole.)

Automatic billing is no longer an option. There is no point in moaning over it now.

If you don't want to deal with Click and Buy, use Ultimate Pay. Buy Crysta. Don't use Click and Buy out of principle. Will that mean that Click and Buy will go away if you don't use it? The answer to that is no. Just because you won't use it doesn't magically make it go away. Besides, it is not like Click and Buy is making their money from you anyway (hint, SE is paying Click and Buy for us to use their service, isn't that nice of SE to do?)

Message for the whiners: PoL billing is no longer an option, and crying about it is not going to bring it back.

[Aver]

Automatic billing is no longer an option. There is no point in moaning over it now.

If you don't want to deal with Click and Buy, use Ultimate Pay. Buy Crysta. Don't use Click and Buy out of principle. Will that mean that Click and Buy will go away if you don't use it? The answer to that is no. Just because you won't use it doesn't magically make it go away. Besides, it is not like Click and Buy is making their money from you anyway (hint, SE is paying Click and Buy for us to use their service, isn't that nice of SE to do?)

Message for the whiners: PoL billing is no longer an option, and crying about it is not going to bring it back.

It's whining to demand we are treated fairly by a company we are paying to provide a service? You and I must have some very different definitions of whining.

The fact remains, that playonline-style (as in, direct to square-enix) billing remains in effect for one region of players while being removed from all others. That same region also has the ability to pay the exact amount of their monthly bill in SE's virtual currency, should they see fit to go that route.

Tell me, in what universe does this seem like a fair business practice?

It's not whining to demand a company do what is right. Especially when there is a large playerbase wanting to give them their money.

[Korpg]

It's whining to demand we are treated fairly by a company we are paying to provide a service? You and I must have some very different definitions of whining.

The fact remains, that playonline-style (as in, direct to square-enix) billing remains in effect for one region of players while being removed from all others. That same region also has the ability to pay the exact amount of their monthly bill in SE's virtual currency, should they see fit to go that route.

Tell me, in what universe does this seem like a fair business practice?

It's not whining to demand a company do what is right. Especially when there is a large playerbase wanting to give them their money.

Everyone has a different opinion on what is "fair."

We should be asking this question, does this change seem reasonable?

[Aver]

Given your question, a resounding "No."

It does not seem reasonable to make it harder for customers who enjoy a service to pay for that service. The burden is and always should be on the manufacturer/provider to make payment an easy, almost thoughtless process. That is how you keep revenue flowing.

Would you continue to buy something from a physical store you had frequented for years on end, and that became pretty much second nature to shop at if they (seemingly*) arbitrarily changed their billing policy and instead of having a card swipe at the cash register, made you give your card to a third party you had never heard about who would then give it to them?

[Dragoy]

I fail to see any reason to close the forum over this?

If you think that there is too much 'raging' and whatnot going on, you have not seen much, I must assume.
This is not even a spec of a fraction of what I have seen at other games/forums. ^^;
And they never needed to shut down anything due to it.


It will likely get better, too, in due time, yet sooner than later.

[Revanchist]

You mean, besides the alternative solution I have presented to everyone, which nobody has yet said that my alternative solution is horrible.

Get a prepaid card. If you can see this post, you can get a prepaid card now. Here is the link again in case you guys missed it the last 4 times (http://www.credit.com/products/credit_cards/debit.jsp).

Only thing I can see wrong with my alternative solution is that it gives people nothing to gripe about, because the "problem" they have with Click and Buy is gone. Or problem with UltimatePay is gone. Or problem with any other outsourced payment option is gone.

Hence, the mob mentality that people on this forum has developed. They want to get their pitchforks and start waving it at the monster they call SE.

While that is indeed a alternate option, it still requires crysta (does it not?), and that is not legally accepted as a viable payment method here in Australia. As I had said in earlier posts (not just in this thread but others), Crysta and the gamer cards aren't available here in Australia, with crysta not being legally acceped (as I said earlier) and the gamer cards being region locked. So how does either method help up those gamers in Australia or in other countries in similar circumstances?

It just seems to me, that while yes, you are pointing out solutions, they may not be valid depending on the individual's country of residence.

EDIT: One other thing... and I'm not trying to start a arguement with you or w/e Korpg as we are all entitled to our own opinion about what is the best option. Speaking for myself only, I prefer the ease of direct debit over the other options, as I've always got the amount I need in my account for payment. Laziness on one hand, yes I admit however I would think even you would have to agree with the following that A: For SE to change the payment option so late in the game's life is baffling and B: To do so, without making sure that the payment options SE has selected for us to use, should be in place beforehand (IE Ensuring Crysta is legally accepted in all countries; the gamer cards are available in all countries as well).

I recall reading in another thread (Forgive me, but I can't recall which one exactly) someone was comparing Microsoft Points to Crysta. I do agree that they are indeed similar, however... at this point in time there are more things to use Microsoft Points for (indeed for use for DLC for the many games, avatar costumes/props, rent movies etc) whereas for Crysta there's only the proposed payment option for FFXI (as FFXIV is still Free To Play, but eventually will use Crysta). IMO (again only my opinion), MS Points have far more of a use than Crysta does... at this time.

[Seiver]

lol you want to see backlash, Welcome to Eve Online, the universe is yours. (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065)

[Korpg]

While that is indeed a alternate option, it still requires crysta (does it not?), and that is not legally accepted as a viable payment method here in Australia. As I had said in earlier posts (not just in this thread but others), Crysta and the gamer cards aren't available here in Australia, with crysta not being legally acceped (as I said earlier) and the gamer cards being region locked. So how does either method help up those gamers in Australia or in other countries in similar circumstances?

I thought there were 2 payment options for Crysta, Click and Buy and Ultimate Pay. If Click and Buy won't accept your country because a lot of scams came thru there, then you got one choice now, don't you?

[Alhanelem]

While that is indeed a alternate option, it still requires crysta (does it not?)No. You would use a prepaid card with clickandbuy. Then, if they try to rob you like some of the haters claim they will, they can only get what you put on the card. More seriously, the prepaid cards should be able to be registered easily and avoid the problem of banks that won't allow international transactions.


I thought there were 2 payment options for Crysta, Click and Buy and Ultimate Pay.No, the 2 options for Crysta are Paypal and Ultimate Game Cards (both processed VIA ultimate pay).

Click and buy is for automatic monthly payments.

[Revanchist]

I thought there were 2 payment options for Crysta, Click and Buy and Ultimate Pay. If Click and Buy won't accept your country because a lot of scams came thru there, then you got one choice now, don't you?

Firstly, I realise how this topic has induced quite a lot of negativity (hate/rage/etc), but it is understandable is it not Korpg? Just because some others have 'raged' against you in other threads, doesn't mean everyone deserves the condescension towards the end of your post. There are some who are genuinely concerned about this situation, so is it wrong to give each poster the benefit of the doubt before responding in a condescending way?

Secondly, it's not Clickandbuy that won't accept my country Korpg, it's the fact that Crysta isn't legally accepted as viable payment option in some countries yet. I did state such in my post, and it even has mention of this here:


*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.

Source: Square Enix Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html)

As I also said, while it's true Clickandbuy and PlaySpan are two options, there are some countries which A: Crysta hasn't been approved/legally accepted and B: the gamer cards aren't available (as far as I know).

Now forgive my ignorance of the fact here, but even to use a prepaid credit card and going with Clickandbuy, would still involve Crysta would it not? If so, that still means gamers like myself (in countries where Crysta isn't approved) would only have the gamer cards (if they're available) correct? If on the otherhand, the prepaid credit cards do work for gamers in similar circumstances as mine, that's good. Means that as much as I dislike this change, it's still a option for me (even though I prefer the direct debit method we've been using since the game's inception).

Though, I'm still curious about A: Why this change was brought in so late in the game's life and B: For those countries which can't utilize either of the proposed payment methods, will SE do anything for them?