in light of all the payment raging, (( must read ))

[Rosina]

THis thread is only to those who can use the options and are mindlessly raging over the billing change. This thread does not address to those who can not use these options.

Leave your insults at the door. They are not welcome here. If you want to act like a child I will treat you as such. This is not the first time I see this rage fest. ffxiv hadf a similar one. Then people smarten up and read what they can do. (also that game is free still.) But those who can buy crysta did. Those who signed up for click ande buy did.

Other options are set up a account with Ultimate pay. This website hosts those ultimate pay cards used by several online games And sell various amounts of points. They Mostly sell $10 or $20 cards in stores. You can also buy stuff on ultimate pay by using paypal. Just agai select the amount of points, $5 for every 500 points. having 10K points being a $100.

These are options one doesn't need to use "click and buy" from.

Please stop the raging over such a stupid thing. Instead of being lazy like the ff14 crowd please look into your options.

Thank you have a nice day.

sorry if this post came off rude to anyone who can't do these options. And sorry for the mis info I set my account up on my ps3, the click and buy logo didn't load up. For that I am sorry.

But really learn what you can do, ask questions, and look for work arounds if your in the (can't pay with either) option.

The only reason japan can directly play SE is they have different ways of billing over there. and are not the same as in US or Europe. that it is a japanese company. POL was infact a middleman. and tbh I hated pol. I'm happy I can use crysta and plan on doing so.

Sorry if my help was an insult those who will be effected by this negatively.

But do not dare say all this rage isn't effecting me. I do not come on these forums to see adults cry like children. If you have an issue talk to the reps here. get more info to what you can do.

[Aver]

People are raging over the fact you have to use a shady service (click and buy) or buy more fake currency than what you would need to pay the monthly fee (crysta.) Not that you would need to take another step to find how to pay for crysta w/o click and buy.

Complete and utter garbage on SE's part. Playonline's billing worked for 10 years already, just fine, with the exception of last month.

These people have the intelligence level of a protozoan.

[Rosina]

People are raging over the fact you have to use a shady service (click and buy) or buy more fake currency than what you would need to pay the monthly fee (crysta.) Not that you would need to take another step to find how to pay for crysta w/o click and buy.

Complete and utter garbage on SE's part. Playonline's billing worked for 10 years already, just fine, with the exception of last month.

These people have the intelligence level of a protozoan.

and i just stated that there is infact a credit card option. >.> It is on their web site. Click and buy is just the direct way to buy crysta other the going through ultimate pay.

ALSO any and all time cards are not a mnth to mnth thing. You get incraments of several months. Similar with points. There is incrments of pay. You can't just simply buy 13.95. Even sony and 360 have cards that equal only $5 $10 $20

Just gotta suck it up, that is how those cards and point system work.
Just go to SE site and set up your credit card.

[Rosina]

the only utter garbage is the Forum community over stuck astupid reason. Grow a set and learn to deal. There is no use to rage, all you guys are doung is fearing change. Instead of trying it out. Time cards/ point cards are much safer and easier to use. just get a $20 every 2 mnths. No harm or foul. just learn to use them to your advantage,

[Aver]

Rosina, credit card is only an option to pay for crysta, or to have click and buy act as a middleman to SE. It's not about being averse to change, it's about SE not thinking things through.

Either way, the players are going to get the shaft in the end. Believe me, I've looked and had the experience with SE's clickandbuy/crysta venture long before it was introduced to 11. Didn't like it then, sure as hell don't like it now.

On time cards - I'll leave that to the individual. I prefer having an auto-bill system myself and trusting (lol, trusting SE, I'm setting myself up for a world of hurt) the company to bill me correctly on a timely basis. Once again, this was a system that was in place and working. Why not leave the auto-bill (THROUGH SQUARE/someone other than shadeandloot)

Also, this. (http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/help/pages/04369.html&bereich=surfer)

Ultimately, I'm just explaining why people have such a problem with this. If you have your own way of doing things, do it. But there are many of us who absolutely do not want anything to do with this company. I know I don't.

[Zarabi]

Meh i saw you say this on another post, im not debating how good or bad it is, but youre just WRONG.

Here is a copypaste from their official "how to transfer account" - help website:

You can choose from either Crysta, or Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account. Please select one and then click "Next."

So its Crysta OR

Credit Card VIA CnB. Ok? :)

[slakyak]

Yeah, the credit card option seems to be via C&B... At least here in the UK anyway.

[Ilax]

Complete and utter garbage on SE's part. Playonline's billing worked for 10 years already, just fine, with the exception of last month.

No one know what happened, maybe a fraud happen recently and SE breaking they association with them, maybe playonline just turning the switch off because it is old, no one really know the real story and doubt SE will start explain they strategy. All we know is they droping playonline as billing system. The GREAT news is how you now able to pay in multiple way, the BAD NEWS is how is C&B only that take care of your credit card for automatic payment =\ But ive said it in many post, give time to SE to explore the market, and they might eventually add PayPal too as automatic monthly fee.

Until then is simple option, use paypal to load crysta if you don't trust C&B. [that was my option]

[Kraggy]

Yeah, the credit card option seems to be via C&B... At least here in the UK anyway.
Whereas you have to buy Crysta through ... C&B ... well, you can also buy it through Play Span so there is a way to avoid C&B but in the context of the quote you're agreeing with Zarabi about, BOTH payment methods mentioned in what he quotes require use of ClickAndCry.

[slakyak]

Whereas you have to buy Crysta through ... C&B ... well, you can also buy it through Play Span so there is a way to avoid C&B but in the context of the quote you're agreeing with Zarabi about, BOTH payment methods mentioned in what he quotes require use of ClickAndCry.

That's what I was getting at lol! I think the OP is wrong thinking there is a direct credit card option... For the uk at least!!

[Byrth]

For JPs there is, but for other countries there isn't. Some people are playing from countries that ClickAndBuy doesn't even support, and now they're locked out of service until they find a way around this new system.

[Rage]

For JPs there is, but for other countries there isn't. Some people are playing from countries that ClickAndBuy doesn't even support, and now they're locked out of service until they find a way around this new system.

Yes like me, I am from New Zealand, about 5 years ago when I purchased the security token we had to register a SE account so we can link the security token onto it, I am from New Zealand so of course when I choose the region when creating SE account we choose EU&Other Regions since there were only NA JP and EU&Region 3 Options to choose so of course I chose EU&Other Regions, who knows it will hunt it us down now at that time? now I am screwed because the only option to make a payment in EU SE account is Click and Buy, NO Crysta available, NO direct debit credit card, No Paypal, and even worse, now everytime I try to transfer my POL account and when I get to the Click and Buy payment step it shows an error message says "Error This offer is not activated for your country of origin.", I searched on internet, no luck, so I made a phone call to Click and Buy in EU, waited for a good 20mins on the line until someone finally pick up, and the operator was in very bad manner, after 10mins of talking and explaining he told me I have to verified my credit card in my Click and Buy that they put 2 amount of US dollars and I have to put them onto the click and buy confirmation page, and the 2 amount of money will take 3~7days to appear on the invoice and he said if it still doesnt work it doesnt work thank you sir and hang up the phone. so if it doesnt work , to the EU SE account users that isnt in EU like me, totally had no choice, we only have an option to pay with click&buy which doesnt work and cant continue FFXI service.
P.S also tried my sis's credit card from Australia, appears to be same error message so i dont know whats wrong with it, friend from US didnt have to verfiy their credit card and could use right away and got their account transfer done in few mins. I also heard someone said some countries/banks dont even support Click and Buy I am not sure if thats true but maybe thats why i get the error message.

So to the original poster, you think its easy like you said ? maybe its easy for you because you didnt have problems but please dont forget there are other people having same situation like me.
and SE needs to do something about it.

[Niyariko]

Yes, I was also getting the "Error This offer is not activated for your country of origin." when I was trying to set up my FF14 account back then when I was in Hong Kong (and I had no problem Alpha/Beta testing the game there).

Even though my CC account, FF account are all in Canada, i travel a lot, due to personal reasons...thats my life. FFxi was working pretty well until they decided to discontinue the autopayment via POL.

[Rage]

Yes, I was also getting the "Error This offer is not activated for your country of origin." when I was trying to set up my FF14 account back then when I was in Hong Kong (and I had no problem Alpha/Beta testing the game there).

Even though my CC account, FF account are all in Canada, i travel a lot, due to personal reasons...thats my life. FFxi was working pretty well until they decided to discontinue the autopayment via POL.

Do you know whats the error message means ? did you ever fix it for your FF14, so we are done until SE do something about it?

[Byrth]

Do you know whats the error message means ? did you ever fix it for your FF14, so we are done until SE do something about it?

ClickAndBuy doesn't support all countries. That's what it means.

[Niyariko]

Do you know whats the error message means ? did you ever fix it for your FF14, so we are done until SE do something about it?

This was one of many reasons I stop playing FF14, I couldn't fix it, is not my side of the problem.

I think that error message pops up when C&B server detects that your internet connection is not from one of the chosen regions from SE, hence, regional error. I think when SE registered C&B as their business partner, SE will need to select what regions they will accept payment for. And unfortunately the region I was in wasn't in SE's check list.

[Rage]

So in other words those ppl like me are done, cant do anything with it unless SE do something

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

You do not have to use the "click and buy" option that is JUST for crysta. I repeat THAT IS JUST FOR CRYSTA. Go to the square enix website and there is INFACT a payment option to use your credit card.

You have it backwards.

If you want automatic credit card billing in the exact amount you owe (and you don't live in Japan), the only option is ClickandBuy. Note that if you cilck the "credit card" option, you're immediately prompted to establish a new ClickandBuy account.

If you want to buy Crysta (which you will need to reload manually and carry a balance month-to-month), then you have options alongside ClickandBuy. In North America, at least, you have the second option of using PlaySpan, and it is through them that you have the option of PayPal and prepaid cards.

Using PlaySpan doesn't require establishing an account per se.

You might want to get your own facts straight before sarcastically declaring everyone else is wrong.

[Byrth]

Top google suggestion for "clickandbuy" is "Clickandbuy scam" ...

Look here (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106046-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Information-Page%286-27-2011%29?p=4717396&viewfull=1#post4717396)and further down the page, Rage.

[Korpg]

I'm still wondering why people are still complaining.

If everyone is really that concerned about ClickandBuy, you could, you know, get a bank account (or a second on at a different bank) and use that account only for this game. There are banks out there that don't charge a monthly fee for opening an account as long as you have like $5 in your savings account (at least, that is how most credit unions do) and the cards are the same as other banks.

That way, most of your fears of ClickandBuy stealing your money are gone (your main account isn't touched) and you get billed for the exact amount (some of you complained that you don't want to have to spend $1 extra every 9 months, and that this is all a scheme to get money out of you). You can even have direct deposit done from your work (all it takes is a form from both of your banks and the company you work for) to send most of your money to your main account and have the monthly payment go to your little account (some of you complain that you won't remember to buy crysta each month).

There is a solution to your problems, but all you guys like to do is complain about life. Well, get over it!

[Byrth]

... and open three new accounts so we can play a 9 year old game?

[mistmonster]

There is a solution to your problems, but all you guys like to do is complain about life. Well, get over it!

Nothing should be this complicated. But your right I'm done complaining. If things don't change, I'm done with SE. 6 accounts 26 characters (yeah lots for bonanzas) Hell I'm even canceling pre-orders on Amazon for other SE games. I don't ever want to see them again. It feels like I'm leaving an abusive relationship.

[Korpg]

... and open three new accounts so we can play a 9 year old game?

Don't see 3 new accounts, just 1.

I'm surprised that most people don't have a junk account anyway, for online purchases. By the looks of the mob here, everyone is afraid that "the man" is out to screw them over and take all their money. I mean, it makes sense to have a bank account for online purchases.

[Rage]

Top google suggestion for "clickandbuy" is "Clickandbuy scam" ...

Look here (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106046-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Information-Page%286-27-2011%29?p=4717396&viewfull=1#post4717396)and further down the page, Rage.

You mean the guy listed the country that SE/Click&Buy dont support? thanks by the way

[Romanova]

posting to once again, disregard OP's comments. There is no direct payement with a CC unless your JP.


They continually say this and are continually wrong. You have to do CC through Click and Scam, or a round about way through paypal/gamecard. That's it.

OP should stop posting this everywhere and show us some screenshots of this magical credit card direct pay without those three options, or stop posting.

[Korpg]

And here comes the mob now.

[Byrth]

Don't see 3 new accounts, just 1.

I'm surprised that most people don't have a junk account anyway, for online purchases. By the looks of the mob here, everyone is afraid that "the man" is out to screw them over and take all their money. I mean, it makes sense to have a bank account for online purchases.

1) Open a bad checking account
2) Open a Click and Buy Account, which you tie to the bad checking account
3) Open a Crysta account with SE because the 3.9% surcharge for preloading with Click and Buy exceeds the interest rate I could hope to get on my money in the bank.

Three new accounts.

Beyond that, I'd prepay a few months to avoid having to do it every month. $28 per month, so three months of FFXI would be $85 worth of Crysta. Overall, infinitely more complicated than giving them my credit card and telling them to charge me once a month.

[Korpg]

1) Open a bad checking account
2) Open a Click and Buy Account, which you tie to the bad checking account
3) Open a Crysta account with SE because the 3.9% surcharge for preloading with Click and Buy exceeds the interest rate I could hope to get on my money in the bank.

Three new accounts.

Beyond that, I'd prepay a few months to avoid having to do it every month. $28 per month, so three months of FFXI would be $85 worth of Crysta. Overall, infinitely more complicated than giving them my credit card and telling them to charge me once a month.

So, instead of having to open 2 new accounts, one of which you will probably never use after you open it, you open a third one.

Which is my point. It is still one extra account that you need to open, not three extra accounts.

This system will be in place regardless of you opening or shutting down your account, if this new system will mean the lost of 50~100 players, all well. I know that you guys think that SE hasn't researched the effects of this new system and what it will mean to everyone, but I'm sure that somebody did their research.

Besides, my solution is best for those who are afraid of everything, if they want to continue playing that is. If they quit, they were going to quit soon anyway, they needed an excuse to make themselves feel better (I don't know why, people are like that I guess).

[Byrth]

So, instead of having to open 2 new accounts, one of which you will probably never use after you open it, you open a third one.

Which is my point. It is still one extra account that you need to open, not three extra accounts.

This system will be in place regardless of you opening or shutting down your account, if this new system will mean the lost of 50~100 players, all well. I know that you guys think that SE hasn't researched the effects of this new system and what it will mean to everyone, but I'm sure that somebody did their research.

Besides, my solution is best for those who are afraid of everything, if they want to continue playing that is. If they quit, they were going to quit soon anyway, they needed an excuse to make themselves feel better (I don't know why, people are like that I guess).

What are you talking about? Currently I have none of those accounts, and I'd have to open all three to continue paying SE. If they'd let me do the same thing that JPs can do (give the my credit card directly), then I'd have to open 0 new accounts. This is just one more payment fuckup in a long line of payment fuckups from this company.

Also, I think you really underestimate how many players pay for FFXI but barely play it. I have more than a few friends that log in once a month and say hello in LS, then drop off the radar again. Do you really think people like that are going to create three new accounts just to drop in for their obligatory "hi?" Heck, I got three Flist messages last month from friends after SE messed up their payment information telling me that they didn't feel like fighting the company so they could pay for a game they hardly play anymore. It's not an insignificant fraction of the current players, and it's not a population that's going to magically reoccur if SE decides to provide a more reasonable payment method. If they want to keep that profit, they'd better do something about it NOW.

[Korpg]

What are you talking about? Currently I have none of those accounts, and I'd have to open all three to continue paying SE. If they'd let me do the same thing that JPs can do (give the my credit card directly), then I'd have to open 0 new accounts. This is just one more payment fuckup in a long line of payment fuckups from this company.

This could be a new solution to getting rid of all the previous fuckups. You know, to streamline the payment process.


Also, I think you really underestimate how many players pay for FFXI but barely play it. I have more than a few friends that log in once a month and say hello in LS, then drop off the radar again. Do you really think people like that are going to create three new accounts just to drop in for their obligatory "hi?" Heck, I got three Flist messages last month from friends after SE messed up their payment information telling me that they didn't feel like fighting the company so they could pay for a game they hardly play anymore. It's not an insignificant fraction of the current players, and it's not a population that's going to magically reoccur if SE decides to provide a more reasonable payment method. If they want to keep that profit, they'd better do something about it NOW.

If those people do that, then this is a good excuse of them to quit, now is it? I don't understand how anyone can pay for something and not use it at all.

[Byrth]

This could be a new solution to getting rid of all the previous fuckups. You know, to streamline the payment process.

If those people do that, then this is a good excuse of them to quit, now is it? I don't understand how anyone can pay for something and not use it at all.

How is moving from
* "I give you my CC info and you charge me"
* "I make a shell account. Then I use an online payment service to access my shell account. Then I tell the online payment service to buy ___ of a distributor-specific currency. Then I use the distributor-specific currency to maintain my registration every month."
somehow a way to streamline the payment process?


Also, plenty of people pay for monthly services that they don't use. What do you think all the "one free month" introductory offers are for? My mom paid monthly fees for dial-up America Online for something like 2 years after we got cable. People automatically pay for shit they don't need or use all the time simply because they can't be arsed to figure out how to stop it.

[xbobx]

Love when people like Rosina get angry at people for not properly looking into things and in fact they had it all wrong because they themselves didn't properly look into things. Too bad she disappeared, and didn't come in here to apologize that in fact she was wrong.

[Tokiro]

Love when people like Rosina get angry at people for not properly looking into things and in fact they had it all wrong because they themselves didn't properly look into things. Too bad she disappeared, and didn't come in here to apologize that in fact she was wrong.

She probably got ripped off by C&B... ;)

[Tamoa]

Pretty much everyone is raging over nothing. You do not have to use the "click and buy" option that is JUST for crysta. I repeat THAT IS JUST FOR CRYSTA. Go to the square enix website and there is INFACT a payment option to use your credit card. If you actually do some research you would know this. How did I find this out? I Also play final fantasy 14. And accidently hit the credit card payment.

Other options are set up a account with Ultimate pay. This website hosts those ultimate pay cards used by several online games And sell various amounts of points. They Mostly sell $10 or $20 cards in stores. You can also buy stuff on ultimate pay by using paypal. Just agai select the amount of points, $5 for every 500 points. having 10K points being a $100.

These are options one doesn't need to use "click and buy" from.

Please stop the raging over such a stupid thing. Instead of being lazy like the ff14 crowd please look into your options.

Thank you have a nice day.

Going to repeat what others have already pointed out - you are wrong.

Yes I can use my Visa card - VIA ClickAndBuy. I just did this earlier today and there was no option to pay directly via any debit or credit card. As soon as I clicked on Visa, I had to make a ClickAndBuy account.

[Korpg]

How is moving from
* "I give you my CC info and you charge me"
* "I make a shell account. Then I use an online payment service to access my shell account. Then I tell the online payment service to buy ___ of a distributor-specific currency. Then I use the distributor-specific currency to maintain my registration every month."
somehow a way to streamline the payment process?


Also, plenty of people pay for monthly services that they don't use. What do you think all the "one free month" introductory offers are for? My mom paid monthly fees for dial-up America Online for something like 2 years after we got cable. People automatically pay for shit they don't need or use all the time simply because they can't be arsed to figure out how to stop it.

We have been having issues with payment from PoL for, what, the last year or so?

This new change could mean that somebody has either hacked into the system but haven't stolen anything, or more likely the new rules issued by banks and World Bank has made it almost impossible for it to be effective to keep the old system in play without overhauling the entire system. Which is what they are doing, but they (as in SE) has chosen the cheaper method. I mean, why go all out on a product that is dying?

Also, laziness is not an excuse to stop payment on anything. You can't blame the companies for people being too lazy to click a few buttons.

[Byrth]

Okay, so basically you're entirely wrong and unwilling to admit it.

This is a self-serving action by SE that (probably) doesn't even serve themselves because people *are* too lazy to spend a night setting up three new accounts to continue paying them.

[Romanova]

We have been having issues with payment from PoL for, what, the last year or so?

This new change could mean that somebody has either hacked into the system but haven't stolen anything, or more likely the new rules issued by banks and World Bank has made it almost impossible for it to be effective to keep the old system in play without overhauling the entire system.

you realize that this system has been in place for more than a year right?

[MarkovChain]

Overall, infinitely more complicated than giving them my credit card and telling them to charge me once a month.

4 remarks.

(1) The old system that we all know was globally retarded. It was a headache for a new player to figure out HOW to input your code then the CC info to play the game. You have to click 15 submenu in a laggy viewer and to understand the terms they use for "account" (handle, content ID, codes, optional services ...). There has never been a direct way when you start the game for the first time to "input codes"+"billing info".

(2) Due to their previous paiement system failing, I had to use my new card as debt card to pay every 3 months since it was not accepted as automatic payement every month.


(3) It took me 5 minutes total going from the POL site "how to" to the email confirmation that I was transferred.

(4) Overall the security is definitely increased. I had a subframe pop inside click and buy window where my bank asked confirmation with a code sent to my phone.

Overall It's pretty easy. If you ever managed to start the game in less than 2 hours the first time you bought FFXI then your are good with less than 5 minutes. At least that worked for me and mdk. I'm sure they had way to many problems with bank starting to refuse automatic payement and such without increased security. Not a surprise since pol is the same as 2002. So they decided to use professionals instead. I don't think there is a way to avoid this on the internetz anymore. I used to buy stuff online by just providing CC info upon payement, but now the same sites want scans of ID card, CC card, the bank asks for confirmation inside the browsers, etc.

[Korpg]

you realize that this system has been in place for more than a year right?

I wasn't given the option to switch over my account info until the 27th of July. And I had to reissue my information earlier this month because my old card expires at the end of this month.

As far as I know, only the 3D secure was in effect. Give me information as to state that this new system that we are on has been in effect for the past year, and I shall retract my statement. Because I have been paying from PoL since I first started this game.

[Korpg]

Plus, I love the excuse "you don't agree with me so you must be wrong."

[Aver]

Plus, I love the excuse "you don't agree with me so you must be wrong."

Not so much wrong as crazy.

Open a new bank account to open a new 3rd party payment account to buy virtual currency to pay for a game? Really?

Or we could just have SE not do retarded things like this and we all live happily ever after.

[Korpg]

People are complaining about Click and Buy. You can just open a new bank account to offset the "risk" of Click and Buy, or you could use your current account to buy crysta. For those who don't have the option of buying crysta, then you have to use Click and Buy to continue to play this game. Don't like Click and Buy? See you in a couple of months. I'm sure that 50~100 people will quit because of this new system, but out of those who quit, about 90% will come back in a couple of months.

Quitting this game because you don't like the way they are changing their payment methods is a very weak excuse, and just shows that those who quit were going to anyway. Just save us all the pain of hearing you cry about it and do it!

This game will continue on without you. I promise you that.

[Byrth]

No, we seem to agree exactly on the facts (save one). You made several assertions earlier in the thread that, by a logical extension of the facts we agree upon, are wrong.

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156557&viewfull=1#post156557), yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156611&viewfull=1#post156611).

You name it "streamlining the payment process," (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156668&viewfull=1#post156668) somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156699&viewfull=1#post156699) as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

If you don't believe people will unsubscribe over this, take a look at the number of sub-20 post-count posters in these threads.

[Selzak]

You've posted this before and got called out on the fact that it's utterly false, and then you decided to make a thread. Deserves to be flamed imo, because you don't just lack reading comprehension you also lack the ability to consider yourself possibly wrong. Couple that with your ironically smart attitude (learn2reed guys!) and I have to wonder if this is just a troll.

[Korpg]

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156557&viewfull=1#post156557), yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!


Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156611&viewfull=1#post156611).

My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.


You name it "streamlining the payment process," (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156668&viewfull=1#post156668) somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.


You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156699&viewfull=1#post156699) as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.



So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

[Byrth]

The top suggestion on google (in order of most-searched-for) for Click and Buy is "clickandbuy scam." Here, I went ahead and hit enter (http://www.google.com/search?q=clickandbuy+scam&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)for you. They also have an F with the BBB (admittedly, SE also had an F until they paid the BBB to become an accredited business). These are not people you would want to do business with if you could avoid it.

There's no reason to be trying to silence opposition to a billing change on the official forums. Even if they're stubborn and this doesn't change anything, it doesn't take much effort to post and it's our only way to try.

[Selzak]

Rosina (( must read )), in a general sense.

[Korpg]

The top suggestion on google (in order of most-searched-for) for Click and Buy is "clickandbuy scam." Here, I went ahead and hit enter (http://www.google.com/search?q=clickandbuy+scam&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)for you. They also have an F with the BBB (admittedly, SE also had an F until they paid the BBB to become an accredited business). These are not people you would want to do business with if you could avoid it.

How come all I see from this are scams that go thru Click and Buy, but not the company itself?

That's the same as blaming MGM for a bad movie.

I can't believe people now. Thanks for showing me this, now I have less faith in people in general than before. Maybe I should blame my grocery store when that new soup doesn't taste good. Or blame Ford when somebody cuts me off. Or blame my electric company when some show comes on and it sucks.


There's no reason to be trying to silence opposition to a billing change on the official forums. Even if they're stubborn and this doesn't change anything, it doesn't take much effort to post and it's our only way to try.

Not silencing anyone. Just telling everyone to put their money where their mouth is. I hate it when people threaten to do something to offset a minor inconvenience.

[Jackastheripper]

I think Korpg is just pissed that if everyone quits, he won't have a game to play and therefore a forum to "teach" about the ways of the world. I know I am done when it all switches over for good. If they would have offered paypal as a 3rd party service for exact purchase price, I would stay. I have had bad dealing with click and buy in the past and refuse to do business with them. Not buying crysta because I can't have it reoccur without manually loading it and not exact payment there either. Not loading up my account with crysta that may or may not be used and will, most likely, never be at a 0 balance.

I have looked over many other forums and I think you are underestimating how many people are truly not happy with this decision. I am sure that way more than 50-100 people are going to be quitting over this. You have to take into account that more than a few of them probably have more than 1 account. I have 2 and will be canceling them both. So does a friend of mine who will be canceling all 3 of his. It's not the number of people who are quitting, but the number of accounts that go with em. GG SE.

[Korpg]

I think Korpg is just pissed that if everyone quits, he won't have a game to play and therefore a forum to "teach" about the ways of the world. I know I am done when it all switches over for good. If they would have offered paypal as a 3rd party service for exact purchase price, I would stay. I have had bad dealing with click and buy in the past and refuse to do business with them. Not buying crysta because I can't have it reoccur without manually loading it and not exact payment there either. Not loading up my account with crysta that may or may not be used and will, most likely, never be at a 0 balance.

I have looked over many other forums and I think you are underestimating how many people are truly not happy with this decision. I am sure that way more than 50-100 people are going to be quitting over this. You have to take into account that more than a few of them probably have more than 1 account. I have 2 and will be canceling them both. So does a friend of mine who will be canceling all 3 of his. It's not the number of people who are quitting, but the number of accounts that go with em. GG SE.

You know, the best way to talk bad about a company is to say what they have done to you in the past. You know, instead of saying "I hate this company" it is better to say "I hate this company, and here is why"

Also, I'm flattered that you think I am here teaching people something. That was not my intent, but I'm flattered nonetheless.

Nobody knows how many people will quit over this, except SE. My estimation is based on the number of people who are jumping the bandwagon against Click and Pay and who, I think, will really quit from this. Which we will see a majority of those who quit come back in a couple of months, like we usually do. Past experiences dictate my observations.

[MarkovChain]

The top suggestion on google

You are an internet pro (type FFXI, and check where BG is). Noone will quit except for reasons unrelated to this. Unless you have the IQ of a leek, this method takes no longer than what it took to change CC info on the previous POL and is (obviously) safer.

[Jackastheripper]

I will say that most of your posts Korpg do have the most thought behind them and I congratulate you on that. They are always well thought out and precise is what I was getting at. You seem to be very dedicated to this game and will do all you can to prove your point with as much research as necessary. For that I applaud you. Seriously. You seem to be one of the few people on here that can discuss things with people, even when they don't agree with you.

This is where I, and more players than I think you realize, are coming from. We (or at least I and quite a few of my other FFXI friends) have stayed with, not so much SE, but FFXI for so long because of the ease and security at which we were able to play the game. It has become less and less easy. Now that is not saying that it was easy (and by that I mean not direct in the least bit once you got inside POL) to get payment options set up, but once it was done, it was done until you had to do something along the lines of change a credit card. It's not easy (any by easy here I mean "no extra necessary steps") to set up multiple other accounts just to get my payment to SE.

I think for a lot of people, this is the last straw in the last line of last straws. With the 99 level cap looming and (already disclosed by SE) no new real content outside of rehashing old areas or adding more stuff to existing ones, what is left? The game is old and, sadly, dying. It had a better run than most. With so many MMO's coming out with so much to offer, it will be hard for FFXI to stand up against them without offering real, new content.

This is the view of one not so casual but also not hardcore FFXI gamer. I have a feeling that I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Byrth]

The top suggestion on google. Not the top result. It means that, after the name of the company itself, the next most commonly searched for term is "clickandbuy scam"

[Hunewearl]

I will say that most of your posts Korpg do have the most thought behind them and I congratulate you on that. They are always well thought out and precise is what I was getting at. You seem to be very dedicated to this game and will do all you can to prove your point with as much research as necessary. For that I applaud you. This is where I, and more players than I think you realize, are coming from. We (or at least I and quite a few of my other FFXI friends) have stayed with, not so much SE, but FFXI for so long because of the ease and security at which we were able to play the game. It has become less and less easy. Now that is not saying that it was easy (and by that I mean not direct in the least bit once you got inside POL) to get payment options set up, but once it was done, it was done until you had to do something along the lines of change a credit card. It's not easy (any by easy here I mean "no extra necessary steps") to set up multiple other accounts just to get my payment to SE.

I think for a lot of people, this is the last straw in the last line of last straws. With the 99 level cap looming and (already disclosed by SE) no new real content outside of rehashing old areas or adding more stuff to existing ones, what is left? The game is old and, sadly, dying. It had a better run than most. With so many MMO's coming out with so much to offer, it will be hard for FFXI to stand up against them without offering real, new content.

This is the view of one not so casual but also not hardcore FFXI gamer. I have a feeling that I am not the only one who feels this way.I wonder if you even thought about the fact that this new way of paying will allow people to come back to the game. I am mainly talking about people with US accounts but being EU, paying with EU cards, cards that are, for some of them, denied from POL since 2008-2009.
All these people can now pay through ClickandBuy and enjoy FFXI again, and they are many.

That being said, if ClickandBuy was not secure or whatever, it wouldn't be used. 100% safe does not exist but to be used as a mean of payment for FFXIV and now FFXI, it must be pretty close.

FFXI is old, people can't get the same old feeling when playing nowadays, they are merely looking for an excuse to quit, this change is just an excuse to quit, it's not a valid reason.

[Rage]

For those people whos comparing/arguing old POL payment is better or new one is better,plz dont forget that people outside of NA EU and JP cant even pay and play anymore becaues if their SE account is set on EU&Other Region like me then the only option to pay is Click and Buy and there are alot of countries they doesnt work with Click and Buy, for those people who agrees the new payment system is better, think about us, we cant even pay thru Click and Buyand we cant play while u guys still can actually pay and continue the service regardless if you guys want to or not, saying the new system is good and easy to you and dont care about others is just making people /rage. :P you dont have problem with the new system doesnt mean other people will be same as u. right right ? :)

[Romanova]

I wasn't given the option to switch over my account info until the 27th of July. And I had to reissue my information earlier this month because my old card expires at the end of this month.

As far as I know, only the 3D secure was in effect. Give me information as to state that this new system that we are on has been in effect for the past year, and I shall retract my statement. Because I have been paying from PoL since I first started this game.


It is the only way you could pay for 14, it existed initially for 14 and they already stated back then that there were plans to move 11 to it as they wanted to keep both games on the same system to make it "easier" to handle payments since there was (still is? not sure now that things have changed) supposed to be a discount to the monthly fees if you had both games on the same SE account.

There are tons of people out there (myself included) that are about to get at least 1 month of not having to pay for ff11 because when we all got the CE edition of ff14 we expected to pay for it and already went through this awful system to set it up for 14.

I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.


Now before you try to twist things, I never said this system was in effect for ffxi. but it has been in effect for over a year and with plans for over a year for ffxi to switch. So if you want to make guesses as to why they made it you have to think about SE's state of almost two years ago (they didn't plan this in a day, it was supposed to be the major new "cool" POL system for ff14, it wasn't a rushed job). While it was already completed and running a year ago, you have to go even further back to when they initially thought of it in the first place.

I'd like to point out too the system is set up the exact same way as it was back a year ago, absolutely nothing has changed since then.

Why did they decide to switch now? my guess is they are planning fairly soon after the next major patch or two in 14 to turn it into p2p and they wanted them both on the same system before then since that was their initial intent.

[Jackastheripper]

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cape Verde
Cote d'Ivoire / Ivory Coast
Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea Bissau
Liberia
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya / Libya
Mali
Niger
Nigeria
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
Zimbabwe
Kiribati
Marshall Islands
Federated States of Micronesia /Micronesia
Nauru
Palau
Solomon Islands
Tuvalu
Vanuatu
Democratic People's Republic of Korea / North Korea
Republic of Korea / South Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic / Laos / Lao P.D.R.
Malaysia
Myanmar
Philippines
Indonesia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Thailand
Viet Nam
Hong Kong / HK
Macau / Macao
Taiwan
Palestinian Territory
Niue
Pitcairn / Pitcairn Island
Wallis and Futuna Islands
Western Sahara
Svalbard
St. Pierre et Miquelon
Antarctica
Heard Island and Mcdonald Islands
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Holy See (vatican City State)

While it is nice to see that with this new system, a few older players from certain areas already supported by POL will be able to come back, all the players in these countries that already have accounts through avenues mentioned above will be unable to play. This includes some of couple of US friends who are currently stationed in Iraq who use a little of their very little free time to jump on FFXI and play around on their US account and chat and a friend of mine in Lebanon who plays on a JP account.

[Kojo]

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin...

While it is nice to see that with this new system, a few older players from certain areas already supported by POL will be able to come back, all the players in these countries that already have accounts through avenues mentioned above will be unable to play.

Hey, look on the bright side! No RMT.

[Jackastheripper]

Hey, look on the bright side! No RMT.

I loled. But seriously, losing the business from china and the Korea's? I am sure that will be no big hit....

[Alukat]

to the op:
this are my options:

when u transfer to extend your ID's it gives me this options:

-Clickandbuy
-Crysta

i have to select one of them.

to buy crysta i have to select one of these:

-clickandbuy
-ultimatepay

2000 crysta costs 20€ (at SE page)

payment methods and prices:

Ultimate game card: 30.38$
Webmoney 30.38$
Ukash 20,87€
ELV (germany) 21.61€ > redirected to paybycash
Moneybookers 20€
Wallie-card 23.84€
Giropay (moneybookers) 20€
instant transfer (moneybookers) 20€
paypal 20€
paysafecard 21,31€

as u can see i always have to sign in for a 3rd party and some of them are charging extra money.

there's no way to pay SE directly via CC, at least not in germany.

[Korpg]

It is the only way you could pay for 14, it existed initially for 14 and they already stated back then that there were plans to move 11 to it as they wanted to keep both games on the same system to make it "easier" to handle payments since there was (still is? not sure now that things have changed) supposed to be a discount to the monthly fees if you had both games on the same SE account.

There are tons of people out there (myself included) that are about to get at least 1 month of not having to pay for ff11 because when we all got the CE edition of ff14 we expected to pay for it and already went through this awful system to set it up for 14.

I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.


Now before you try to twist things, I never said this system was in effect for ffxi. but it has been in effect for over a year and with plans for over a year for ffxi to switch. So if you want to make guesses as to why they made it you have to think about SE's state of almost two years ago (they didn't plan this in a day, it was supposed to be the major new "cool" POL system for ff14, it wasn't a rushed job). While it was already completed and running a year ago, you have to go even further back to when they initially thought of it in the first place.

I'd like to point out too the system is set up the exact same way as it was back a year ago, absolutely nothing has changed since then.

Why did they decide to switch now? my guess is they are planning fairly soon after the next major patch or two in 14 to turn it into p2p and they wanted them both on the same system before then since that was their initial intent.

Then why are you complaining, you already have your account setup, all you have to do is transfer the information from PoL to your SE account.

As for me, it was a simple process to transfer my information from one source to another, and I can make monthly payments without any hassle. You can too, if you aren't in the Click and Buy's list of countries they don't support.

And if you don't trust Click and Buy? There is an optional step you can take to safeguard your money.

[Alukat]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

[Kojo]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

[Korpg]

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

You are correct, silent people won't be heard because they won't sign the petition. Mostly because they don't have a problem with it.

[Romanova]

Then why are you complaining, you already have your account setup, all you have to do is transfer the information from PoL to your SE account.

reading is hard (maybe you can figure it out)




I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.

I don't like the crysta system at all, and C&B already tried to take extra money from me back during the 14 fiasco. Chase blocks all transactions from them thank god, but I had to fight with C&B to reverse my money.


[edit] to further clarify, I would have no issues if 1. crysta never expired, 2, I could buy crysta in any amount I wanted, 3. I could set it up where they could automate the crysta payments via paypal.

[Sp1cyryan]

That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

Post in them all. Copy and paste if you need to.

[Kojo]

If posting in a petition thread was considered "signing" a petition, then I've done that, but neither of the petition threads have names in the initial post. I think if SE looks at this forum they get the idea anyway.

[Korpg]

I don't like the crysta system at all, and C&B already tried to take extra money from me back during the 14 fiasco. Chase blocks all transactions from them thank god, but I had to fight with C&B to reverse my money.

Sounds like a FFXIV problem to me, and a billing issue with Click and Buy, which you should have talked to either that company or Square Enix about it. Fighting with them, I don't believe. More like one side was too mad to keep their emotions in check.

[Kaida]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=156830#post156830


I don't think they get it fully.

[Alukat]

That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

but that one reflects what people are truely thinking and their thoughts / emotions behind it.

we really want to become an emotionless calmed society? :O

[Kojo]

but that one reflects what people are truely thinking and their thoughts / emotions behind it.

we really want to become an emotionless calmed society? :O

Ever seen Eqilibrium? Good movie.

[Alukat]

Ever seen Eqilibrium? Good movie.

of course i saw it, it's awesome.

but i don't want to live in an emotionless world.

well i actually lived in one, and it sucks badly.

[Sparthos]

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cape Verde
Cote d'Ivoire / Ivory Coast
Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea Bissau
Liberia
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya / Libya
Mali
Niger
Nigeria
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
Zimbabwe
Kiribati
Marshall Islands
Federated States of Micronesia /Micronesia
Nauru
Palau
Solomon Islands
Tuvalu
Vanuatu
Democratic People's Republic of Korea / North Korea
Republic of Korea / South Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic / Laos / Lao P.D.R.
Malaysia
Myanmar
Philippines
Indonesia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Thailand
Viet Nam
Hong Kong / HK
Macau / Macao
Taiwan
Palestinian Territory
Niue
Pitcairn / Pitcairn Island
Wallis and Futuna Islands
Western Sahara
Svalbard
St. Pierre et Miquelon
Antarctica
Heard Island and Mcdonald Islands
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Holy See (vatican City State)

Really?

I lol'd.

[Romanova]

Sounds like a FFXIV problem to me, and a billing issue with Click and Buy, which you should have talked to either that company or Square Enix about it. Fighting with them, I don't believe. More like one side was too mad to keep their emotions in check.

no it was strictly through CnB. 14 had nothing to do with it, from what I can tell their "authorization" got stuck in a loop, it started spamming my CC with those random $1-2 amounts, and Chase got flagged/blocked it after the 5th or 6th time (I forget which since it was a year ago). I had to call Chase first since CnB's customer service was in Euro time so it wasn't open. Chase told me that CnB is a red flagged company to them and that Chase tries to block any transaction coming from them. I called C&B the next day and had to argue with them to get me 5-6 funds reversed and to have my account cancelled through them.


Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. No way am I going through that again. Nor do I want to go to another bank outside of Chase atm who tries to stop CnB transactions anyways.

[Korpg]

no it was strictly through CnB. 14 had nothing to do with it, from what I can tell their "authorization" got stuck in a loop, it started spamming my CC with those random $1-2 amounts, and Chase got flagged/blocked it after the 5th or 6th time (I forget which since it was a year ago). I had to call Chase first since CnB's customer service was in Euro time so it wasn't open. Chase told me that CnB is a red flagged company to them and that Chase tries to block any transaction coming from them. I called C&B the next day and had to argue with them to get me 5-6 funds reversed and to have my account cancelled through them.


Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. No way am I going through that again. Nor do I want to go to another bank outside of Chase atm who tries to stop CnB transactions anyways.

Sounds like an error to me, not malicious intent.

Chase has probably flagged Click and Buy because people use that company to filter in scams. It is not saying that the company is bad, it is saying that some people who use the product is bad. Are you going to blame Microsoft for somebody hacking into your computer?

[Sp1cyryan]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=156830#post156830


I don't think they get it fully.

They get it they just rather take the easy route out.

It is easier to assure people they won't have such and such a charge with the new system instead of giving credence to the fact people rather have PO's crappy billing than this new junk.

This is not a case of people resisting change or even being unreasonable. This is a case of the change being worse than what we have.

[Romanova]

Sounds like an error to me, not malicious intent.

Chase has probably flagged Click and Buy because people use that company to filter in scams. It is not saying that the company is bad, it is saying that some people who use the product is bad. Are you going to blame Microsoft for somebody hacking into your computer?

I never said it was malicious intent, it is however a failed company as I have heard several others get into the same situation.

Also, stop trying to justify them, I don't trust them. You want to trust them? fine, go for it, but don't come down on others for not trusting them. Chase told me they will keep blocking it which means I couldn't use my chase card for CnB and that's the card I want to use (for two reasons 1. I have always trusted chase against fraud, 2. it's my reward card and I put all small purchases on it to gain points), so I do it through paypal instead because I can as crysta is the lesser of two evils. I think it's silly you think it's ok to tell people how to govern their money.


[edit] I also noticed how you claimed you'd retract your statement about the "new" system, even though you were, in fact, wrong about this being really new but never actually admitted to being wrong. gg

[Sp1cyryan]

I think it's silly you think it's ok to tell people how to govern their money.

Good old Korpg, still in his same old song and dance. Not a surprise really, but it be lovely if he came to his senses about some things though. At least when it comes to things like this.

[Sparthos]

If SE wants individuals to use crysta, allow exact payments instead of amounts that favor the company.

Cmon, has SE been reading the Shinra Motor and Electric Company manual on fair business practices?

[Arcalimo]

I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!


My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.


Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.


Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.



Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

History shows that you are wrong.
Did you heard anything about revolutions?
A few examples to you:
-Your country would be nothing but a simple colony actually if your forefathers had that mentality.
-The big mayority of humans would be slaves working 24/7 under whips for a few minority of people with power.

Actually we are the only ones that can change this situation and people complaining for no reason about people complainign for a fair reason doesn't help.

I really don't see the fundaments of your complains, how does it affect you that other people could keep the actual billing system at the same time that you can use the new one? just like Japanesse can.

Does your solution solve this problem?

In short version and in English this mean:

-If your Original bank refuse a payement on a click and buy transaction you get 15€ + 7,5€ fee

-If you want to close your Click and Buy account its cost 15€ fee (Yeah but it was free to made it)

-If you dont use your Click and Buy account for more than 1 year you get 1€ fee per month then.

http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/ter...onditions.html

If we just accept Click & buy, besides of the bad reputation and all that shit, SE would be forcing us to give an extra 15€ fee for cancelling our account or either pay them 1€ each month for something we don't want to use.
That or pay using crysta, buying extra amounts of it w/o knowing what could happen in the future (banned, leaving game for unespected mayor reason, death.. hell even if its 2€, those would be my property or of my sons), but no, they force us to have to either lose that too, or either spend it in something we didn't want.

It's not about making an extra account for security or anything, it's about time consumed in undesired stuff, forcing us to spend extra money in something we didn't want, etc. Hell is about values and morality.

And the worst is that this is impossed after 9 years, it would be different if it would be that way from the beginning, we could have acepted it or not, and prolly would have ended like FFIV, but now it does damage us, as it force us to either accept or lose all the time/stuff invested here, and this is enought for a lot of people to don't trust on SE anymore.

So yes, poeple do have a reason to complain about an unfair/immoral system impossed after 9 years, and that damages them, more or less.

And we do have the power to change this, even if you don't believe it (as i said before, history shows you are wrong), first complaining and later taking action if our complains are not taken into consideration.
And even if we don't leave the game entirely, 1000 people not paying for 1 month is money lost by SE that they could have earned by listening to their clients.
Some may come back, but the damage is done, and others won't come back for sure.
*1000 is just an example, could be more people considering the quantity of complains that you can see in the forum in just 1 day. (and note that i said temporaly leaving, not leaving forever).

Now its time for SE to evaluate if the gain will be worth the lost and the bad reputation they will earn for leading their clients into this trap.


Also, to your knowledge:
I don't need an extra bank account to buy with security, i check my bank account every day, if click & buy charges me w/o permission, i have X time(based on type of operation) to cancel the operation and get my money back.
The problem is that doing so, Click & buy could add me to an unpaid's black list and banks wouldn't lend me any money i would need in the future, GREATLY damaging my real life, even if i cancel the operation from any account, it's my name and my ID what get's the damage, even for 13€.
So at the end, either i eat the 13€ or i spend A LOT of time and money on laywers, trying to prove to a judge that i am inocent to get myself erased from that list.

So before sending someone to learn to read you should also learn about what you are talking about, not all countries have the same laws as your :)


In resume:
-People have a reason to complain about this unfair new impossed system.
-People complaining about other people complaining has no reason at all since if SE keep the actual system as well it won't affect them at all because you could use the new one too, like JP people, which is what the mayority of complains demand, so please stop doing this as it doesn't help at all.

That's my 2 cents,
Good night, ty for reading, all that~

[Draylo]

Seriously Korpg, stop posting and white knighting so hard for SE. It's a terrible solution to payments, end of story.

[Sp1cyryan]

Seriously Korpg, stop posting and white knighting so hard for SE. It's a terrible solution to payments, end of story.

Yeah, this could end a lot of BLUs :P

[Korpg]

Also, stop trying to justify them, I don't trust them. You want to trust them? fine, go for it, but don't come down on others for not trusting them.

You know, public perception is a very powerful thing. It can make companies do really great, and it can also ruin others.

Take Arthur Anderson for example. Good accounting firm, got some bad publicity with one of their clients, ended up dying even though the courts stated that they did nothing wrong. Pretty big company it was, it was considered one of the "Big 5" accounting firms at the time. Yet, when they had some pretty bad press, their company goes bankrupt in the matter of months.

Now, if Click and Buy was all as bad as you state it to be, as bad as anyone states it to be, would you think they would be in business today?

Edit: Viva la Revolution~!

[Romanova]

You know, public perception is a very powerful thing. It can make companies do really great, and it can also ruin others.

Take Arthur Anderson for example. Good accounting firm, got some bad publicity with one of their clients, ended up dying even though the courts stated that they did nothing wrong. Pretty big company it was, it was considered one of the "Big 5" accounting firms at the time. Yet, when they had some pretty bad press, their company goes bankrupt in the matter of months.

Now, if Click and Buy was all as bad as you state it to be, as bad as anyone states it to be, would you think they would be in business today?

Edit: Viva la Revolution~!


Yes...because BoA and other major bank companies are still in business today and I can say first hand they do shady stuff as I used to work for them (an example is they had us signing people up for credit cards even when people said no, and that runs their credit).



BoA's and other bank executives flew in on private jets to come to congress to complain that their companies were going over and they needed money...and our government gave it to them.


You are insanely naive if you think a good reputation is the only way a company survives, and if a company is surviving that means it must be good.

And I 'm waiting for you to say you were wrong about the service being brand new...are you trying to ruin your reputation for being a man of your word?

[Korpg]

Yes...because BoA and other major bank companies are still in business today and I can say first hand they do shady stuff as I used to work for them (an example is they had us signing people up for credit cards even when people said no, and that runs their credit).

Why didn't you report them?




BoA's and other bank executives flew in on private jets to come to congress to complain that their companies were going over and they needed money...and our government gave it to them.

Wait, you are saying that they bought the jets just to fly to Congress and ask for more money?


You are insanely naive if you think a good reputation is the only way a company survives, and if a company is surviving that means it must be good.

And you are insanely biased against companies if you think otherwise. I know that not every company is a shining example of each other, I know that fraud occurs and companies go out of businesses because of theft and embezzlement every year. Yet, for a company to stay profitable for extended periods of time, they have to deal with ethical behavior. And I'm talking about the kind of ethical behavior like walking that little old lady across the street type of behavior, not the kind that you associate with businesses and ethics. Businesses can not survive by screwing people over, like you have accused Click and Buy from doing.



And I 'm waiting for you to say you were wrong about the service being brand new...are you trying to ruin your reputation for being a man of your word?

You know I meant brand new for FFXI. Since this is a FFXI forum, and the subject matter has to be FFXI (as stated on the ToS you and I have agreed upon) then it is reasonable enough to assume that we are talking about FFXI.

As for FFXIV, I don't play that game, and I don't plan on playing that game unless there is something about it that attracts me into it. Therefor, I don't know anything about that game, because I don't associate myself with that game. How in the heck was I supposed to know anything about payment methods for a game I don't play?

[Romanova]

so :safeface: and you know nothing of what happened during the bank bailout.

whether you only played ffX14 is irrelevant, you kept stating they probably needed to add this service because of things that had happened this year, when the service already existed and was already planned on being added to ffxi over a year ago. You just can't admit you were wrong and didn't know this system has existed for quite awhile. trying to make excuses doesn't change the fact you claimed you'd retract your statement if I told you otherwise, which I did, and then you won't do.

keep on backpedaling though.

[Puck]

Businesses can not survive by screwing people over, like you have accused Click and Buy from doing.
You heard it here first, guys. News Corp. is going DOWN. There's NO WAY they'll survive after what they did, this guy knows. He knows.

[Sp1cyryan]

Korpg, this is why no one was willing to give you another shot on AH.com -_-

[Korpg]

so :safeface: and you know nothing of what happened during the bank bailout.

whether you only played ffX14 is irrelevant, you kept stating they probably needed to add this service because of things that had happened this year, when the service already existed and was already planned on being added to ffxi over a year ago. You just can't admit you were wrong and didn't know this system has existed for quite awhile. trying to make excuses doesn't change the fact you claimed you'd retract your statement if I told you otherwise, which I did, and then you won't do.

keep on backpedaling though.

Then enlighten everyone on your version of the events.


Korpg, this is why no one was willing to give you another shot on AH.com -_-

Jokes on yall, I have been back there and posting for months now. You guys actually like me by the looks of it.

[Sp1cyryan]

Jokes on yall, I have been back there and posting for months now. You guys actually like me by the looks of it.

Wouldn't the joke still be on you because the community didn't like you until you did not act like yourself?

[Korpg]

Wouldn't the joke still be on you because the community didn't like you until you did not act like yourself?

I haven't changed my attitude, just some wording.

[Romanova]

Then enlighten everyone on your version of the events.



...I already did?

I'm not repeating myself because you follow a conversation with the memory of a goldfish.

[Korpg]

...I already did?

I'm not repeating myself because you follow a conversation with the memory of a goldfish.

Oh, you mean your personal observations of fraud happening and you not doing anything about it?

I meant your personal ideas of the banking crisis....

[Sp1cyryan]

...I already did?

I'm not repeating myself because you follow a conversation with the memory of a goldfish.

I lol'd a bit. ty :P

[Puck]

Oh, you mean your personal observations of fraud happening and you not doing anything about it?

I meant your personal ideas of the banking crisis....
He needs something he can say to the teacher to sound smart in civics & economics tomorrow.

[Coldbrand]

I'm sure they already bribed some SE businessmen so they could collect their fees off the players who don't read the 8 different FAQs that have been scattered across the far reaches of the Earth so no amount of complaining will change their minds since they probably already signed some contract in virgin blood.

[RAIST]

wow... what a derail of the real issue at hand.

JP Region is getting everything implemented together, while the rest of us are getting singled out and denied the more favorable option. THIS is what we need to be taking SE to task for. Yes, C&B is questionable for many--the bigger point is that we are getting forced to choose between them or going the Crysta route--while JP regionals can continue on as before. Really trying not to do the whole rage post spam everywhere...just gonna link the big wall I posted in another of the threads:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.?p=157135&viewfull=1#post157135

tldr: JP Region is just being effected by the increased cost due to shifting from a monthly cycle to a 30-day cycle--they maintain 3DS and VbV option which we loose, AND they get all the new options as well. SE needs to fix this, or risk loosing revenue in the long run.

[Panthera]

@Rosina,

I appreciate your loyalty to the game and to Square-Enix. Really, I do.

The rest of us, up till now, have been just as loyal as you. Some of us have played FFXI since it came out, and logged in countless hours. Some of us have been with Squaresoft since the original Final Fantasy, and played every game since then. We've leveled every job and craft, beaten every mission of every expansion and mini-expansion, and defeated every major Notorious Monster. Some go to conventions; the game is a topic of conversation in real-life even when we're not playing. We go to bed too late to get in a few more hours of play. One of the first things we do when we wake-up is log on, manage auctions, and one of the last things we do is log-off and bid our linkshell mates good night.

It is a big deal to us, and we just want you, and Square-Enix, to understand that we are upset and we have a right to be upset. A loyalty that is not returned is folly in its purest and most unrefined form. What it comes down to is this: they want us to use a two-bit hustler in a back alley as a go-between for payment, and they want us to overpay him to boot. Our answer, quite simply, is "Hell, no".

Over-reactions to game mechanic changes go ignored, and well they should be. But this is quite different. This is our hard-earned money. We are not bluffing. Go ahead, try us. But before you do, know that it is never a question of "What are my chances?" and always a question of "Can I afford to lose?"

[Chuchuroon]

Pretty much everyone is raging over nothing. You do not have to use the "click and buy" option that is JUST for crysta. I repeat THAT IS JUST FOR CRYSTA. Go to the square enix website and there is INFACT a payment option to use your credit card. If you actually do some research you would know this. How did I find this out? I Also play final fantasy 14. And accidently hit the credit card payment.

Other options are set up a account with Ultimate pay. This website hosts those ultimate pay cards used by several online games And sell various amounts of points. They Mostly sell $10 or $20 cards in stores. You can also buy stuff on ultimate pay by using paypal. Just agai select the amount of points, $5 for every 500 points. having 10K points being a $100.

These are options one doesn't need to use "click and buy" from.

Please stop the raging over such a stupid thing. Instead of being lazy like the ff14 crowd please look into your options.

Thank you have a nice day.

Stop giving dancers a bad name, my head hurts just trying to read through your stupid. Especially since you are apparently raging over people raging, which, you know, seems pretty hypocritical. Just a tad.

Also, FYI: your "accidental" solution is not a solution to the issues that most people are complaining about, AT ALL. Post #2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-%28%28-must-read-%29%29?p=156418&viewfull=1#post156418) already illustrates why, if you still can't understand then lord help you because I don't think anyone else can.

Just because you don't mind the added inconvenience doesn't automatically make everyone else who thinks differently fearful of change or insignificant.

[Sp1cyryan]

I just want to point out the irony of this too.

They are willing to lose an untold number of customers and revenue from a ridiculous billing system they are implementing, but are not willing to put the money into a new expansion which would draw people to the game.

Just thought I throw that one out there and see what I get.

[Puck]

You guys should probably take into account that Rosina never comes back and actually reads what others say in response. They've said the same line over and over again about how "ClickandBuy is only for Crysta, you can still pay directly with CC or paypal" (which we all know isn't true) and have been corrected at least a half dozen times BEFORE they created this thread to repeat the same line of BS.

[Romanova]

All I learned from this thread is korpg blames me for the bank bailout. If only I had gone to the police to report the BoA cooperation, none of it would have happened. {Please forgive me.}

[Korpg]

All I learned from this thread is korpg blames me for the bank bailout. If only I had gone to the police to report the BoA cooperation, none of it would have happened. {Please forgive me.}

I don't know where you get that whole "korpg blames me for the bank bailout." thing, I'm just asking why you didn't report fraud when it happened.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I don't know where you get that whole "korpg blames me for the bank bailout." thing, I'm just asking why you didn't report fraud when it happened.The typical answer tends to be, "too much effort."

[Korpg]

The typical answer tends to be, "too much effort."

I really hope that this isn't the answer in this case.

[RAIST]

for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:

「クレジットカード」「Crysta」から利用されるお支払方法を選択し、「次へ」をクリックしてください。 "Credit card" "Crysta" and select the payment method used by "Next" Please click on.

※ ※ 「クレジットカード」は、Visa、MasterCardの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したカードがご利用いただけます。 "Credit Card", Visa, personal authentication services for MasterCard (3D Secure) available card with.

※ ※ 「Crysta」はVisa、MasterCard、JCBの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したクレジットカード、およびウェブマネーでチャージすることができます。 "Crysta" are Visa, MasterCard, personal authentication services for JCB (3D secure) credit card with you and to charge money on the web.



クレジットカード番号、有効期限、セキュリティコードを入力し「次へ」をクリックしてください。 Credit card number, expiration date, security code, enter the "Next" please click on the.
Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

[Romanova]

I don't know where you get that whole "korpg blames me for the bank bailout." thing, I'm just asking why you didn't report fraud when it happened.

because it's a major cooperation? I'm not just talking about one particular branch here, this is what they taught us to do in training for all banks. About 3 months after being hired they stopped it because people were catching on. And about 9 months later there was like $3 bucks people got out of a settlement check.

That's how it works with companies like that.

And I don't get how that proves that BoA is a good company either so all of this is irrelevant.

[Puck]

Romanova is also responsible for the BP oil spill, the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme, the News Corp hackings, AND the Sony hackings. Thanks a lot.

[Sp1cyryan]

for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:



Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

This is established and known, and it is why we have great cause to be up in arms. It is not like the system is not already in place. If they truly wanted to they could let us continue to be billed as we have been as is the case with the Japanese.

[Romanova]

Romanova is also responsible for the BP oil spill, the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme, the News Corp hackings, AND the Sony hackings. Thanks a lot.

I'm such a bad person ;_;

[RAIST]

This is established and known, and it is why we have great cause to be up in arms. It is not like the system is not already in place. If they truly wanted to they could let us continue to be billed as we have been as is the case with the Japanese.

yes, but alot of these threads seem to be getting sidetracked from what the biggger issue is.

[Korpg]

I'm such a bad person ;_;

You are if you did unethical things like signing up people to credit cards even though they denied you to do it.

And not reporting the bank to the authorities if that really happened.

[Alpheus]

in regards to this whole thread: wow.... 5 stars

all of you

[Romanova]

I learned something new! Korpg is Captain America!


It all makes sense now.


in regards to this whole thread: wow.... 5 stars

all of you


yw :3

[Korpg]

I learned something new! Korpg is Captain America!
It all makes sense now.


You know, if I didn't know you were being sarcastic, that is the nicest thing you have said to me, ever.

[Panthera]

Romanova is also responsible for the BP oil spill, the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme, the News Corp hackings, AND the Sony hackings. Thanks a lot.
You left out the US Deficit Stand-off, which has nothing to do with our current problems....
...or does it?

[Dauntless]

You left out the US Deficit Stand-off, which has nothing to do with our current problems....
...or does it?

This is off topic, but it's really not a standoff. Politicians just playing theatre, no matter what they're going to end up raising the debt ceiling and our republican president will give republicans alll the cuts they want and the country will get 0 revenue increases.

I wanna move to Norway.

[Romanova]

You left out the US Deficit Stand-off, which has nothing to do with our current problems....
...or does it?

I AM GEORGE BUSH

[Malacite]

and i just stated that there is infact a credit card option. >.> It is on their web site. Click and buy is just the direct way to buy crysta other the going through ultimate pay.

ALSO any and all time cards are not a mnth to mnth thing. You get incraments of several months. Similar with points. There is incrments of pay. You can't just simply buy 13.95. Even sony and 360 have cards that equal only $5 $10 $20

Just gotta suck it up, that is how those cards and point system work.
Just go to SE site and set up your credit card.


Except had you actually bothered to try the direct payment option, you would have found that Click&Buy is the only method available to us. The JP by stark contrast, can still register their cards directly with SE and thus pay SE directly.


You might want to actually research things before starting a losing argument like this, lest you look like a jackass.

[Rosina]

Seriously guys, rage moar?

Sorry for using internet speack but it is just a video game. If you do not like the new billing practices. Then simply do not play.

Sorry for the wrong info on my part, but honestly THE MAIN POINT was saying if you guys do some research, there are ways to pay for the game other then click and buy.

Crysta in a nutshell will be my payment. And I know how it works. Simply do this option instead of click and buy.

So yes you guys are just fearing change instead of looking into things. Sometimes you do not get what you want in life.

I will break down how crysta works, which is by far the safest option. Or do you not remember that SE was hacked twice before?

anyway $1= 100 crysta

if your account is say 15.95 a mnth, round this up to 16.00. that means you need at least 1600 crysta. look at the list of cryta amounts and pick the best option for what you want. I would just save up and get a $100 worth. Or simply use your credit card on paypal for the ultimate pay. This put 10,000 cysta on your account. And you will not have to toucvh to for several months. if a flat fee of $100 is simply not for you. just take your account fee round it to the nearest dollor then double or triple it. and pay two to three mnths in advance. It is very easy.

Also contact SE about your region. Stating click and buy don't work for you. Also do not blame se because of the country you live in. That is your regions fault for not hosting the game in the first place.
Simple put instead of raging just use the option you can and ask questions to the dev team.

No need for all this imaturaty over a video game. I only wanted to help you guys out. since there is no need for it.
Do not fault me for trying.

[Rosina]

Except had you actually bothered to try the direct payment option, you would have found that Click&Buy is the only method available to us. The JP by stark contrast, can still register their cards directly with SE and thus pay SE directly.


You might want to actually research things before starting a losing argument like this, lest you look like a jackass.

actually I did. To me click and buy is do different then paypal. I just didn;t see the logo cuz I set my ffxiv account on my ps3 for that I'm sorry abouty the mistake. but still no need to disrespect me for trying to help you guys. I'm not gonna be nice, if all i see is just blind rage over change.

[noodles355]

Would like to say something once more to those who are not against this change and are filling up every thread about it with arguments. (Looking at you, Rosina and Korpg among others)

This change does not affect you.
This change negatively affects other people.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option does not affect you.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option positively affects other people.

People are screaming for a way to directly pay SE with our CC. If SE were to add a method to do this it would have no negative impact whatsoever on you, but would have a positive impact on many. How can you possibily argue against something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way but positively affects many others? It's rediculous.

[Rosina]

Would like to say something once more to those who are not against this change and are filling up every thread about it with arguments. (Looking at you, Rosina and Korpg among others)

This change does not affect you.
This change negatively affects other people.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option does not affect you.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option positively affects other people.

People are screaming for a way to directly pay SE with our CC. If SE were to add a method to do this it would have no negative impact whatsoever on you, but would have a positive impact on many. How can you possibily argue against something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way but positively affects many others? It's rediculous.

don't fault SE because your region didn't allow the game. I do feel sympathy for those players. I was more or less addressing those who do have said option and are ragaing. please ask questions instead of the insults though I again was just trying to help others. To me this is daja vu as ffxiv had a similar wave of rage. if your area doesn't support the game write a letter tho who over controls this in your area asking to allow online games from this company.

I do like the change though. I can play with game with out having a debit card. This honestly made my day.

But again do not insult me, or rage on a forums. Act like the adults you claim and instead of going ARRAAR!! Rage MOAR!!!

calmly discuss with the community reps on your issues and ask if there is anything you can do for you accounts.

I think there are work arounds, like if you set up your account under US codes or something set up a US account. I forget the work arounds, but i read a few when ppl were raging over ffxiv.

[Tamoa]

actually I did. To me click and buy is do different then paypal. I just didn;t see the logo cuz I set my ffxiv account on my ps3 for that I'm sorry abouty the mistake. but still no need to disrespect me for trying to help you guys. I'm not gonna be nice, if all i see is just blind rage over change.


Thing is, you weren't nice to begin with. You were all like "omg learn2read&research guys" and then made a claim that is 100% false because you yourself didn't read and research. And you even posted it in several threads. Don't be surprised that you are being flamed for it.

Also, noodles355 makes a VERY good point.

[RAIST]

Seriously guys, rage moar?

Sorry for using internet speack but it is just a video game. If you do not like the new billing practices. Then simply do not play.

Sorry for the wrong info on my part, but honestly THE MAIN POINT was saying if you guys do some research, there are ways to pay for the game other then click and buy.

Crysta in a nutshell will be my payment. And I know how it works. Simply do this option instead of click and buy.

So yes you guys are just fearing change instead of looking into things. Sometimes you do not get what you want in life.

I will break down how crysta works, which is by far the safest option. Or do you not remember that SE was hacked twice before?

anyway $1= 100 crysta

if your account is say 15.95 a mnth, round this up to 16.00. that means you need at least 1600 crysta. look at the list of cryta amounts and pick the best option for what you want. I would just save up and get a $100 worth. Or simply use your credit card on paypal for the ultimate pay. This put 10,000 cysta on your account. And you will not have to toucvh to for several months. if a flat fee of $100 is simply not for you. just take your account fee round it to the nearest dollor then double or triple it. and pay two to three mnths in advance. It is very easy.

Also contact SE about your region. Stating click and buy don't work for you. Also do not blame se because of the country you live in. That is your regions fault for not hosting the game in the first place.
Simple put instead of raging just use the option you can and ask questions to the dev team.

No need for all this imaturaty over a video game. I only wanted to help you guys out. since there is no need for it.
Do not fault me for trying.

so much wrong with this post.... where to begin....

For starters, some people are getting completely blocked out with the change, that have been able to pay and play just fine with the billing in POL...one in this very thread....but I guess you completely missed that post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=156494&viewfull=1#post156494

This isn't an issue of fearing change...it is that they are selectively denying access to a certain payment method and allowing it for others. Theere is not justification for this--all the pieces are in place within their business structure, as well with the new system--as evidenced by multiple posts about it in various threads. In some cases, it is locking out people from a payment option they may have been using for up to nearly a decade. But I guess you've missed those posts as well. Again, some are even in this very thread, just a handful of posts back:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=157159&viewfull=1#post157159
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=157217&viewfull=1#post157217
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=157396&viewfull=1#post157396
(yes, I know they are my posts...they were just quick and easy for me to find, but there are more about this issue from others)

Again with the crysta....100 payment cycles... for $1295 USD. Thats how much you have to buy to avoid wasting your money to play the game via crysta in the US. That's computes to 98.6 months....8.2 years. That my friend is a rip off. Again, that was covered in exhaustive detail in other threads. Again, this (among other issues) has been covered in various posts...here's one of mine in another thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.?p=157135&viewfull=1#post157135

and again here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157406&viewfull=1#post157406

you get the idea... Crysta really is a crappy option unless you are able to always buy it in amounts really close to what you need to cover your billing. Buying it in bulk for a game this old and whose priority for playing it long term for so many players just doesn't make a whole lot of sense at this point in time.

And that point about the game not being hosted in your region???!!! Did you REALLY just post that so soon after the big mess witht he server shutdowns due to the earthquake in Japan???!!! FFXI was not designed to run on regional servers. If the posts weren't buried so far back, I would dig it up.. but trust me...this game will not be split up and hosted on localized regional servers. SE had specific reasons for keeping it centralized that were discussed/debated adnausiem several months ago.

As for immaturity....ummm... no. It's more about SE's code of conduct in this matter. IE.. Good Business Ethics, as it was briefly touched on here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157343&viewfull=1#post157343

Which I think pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell. The crux of the problem is that for nearly decade SE has preached routinely about their desire to keep this game platform and regionaly neutral...and yet they make decisions that are ovbviously biased toward one specific region with absolutely no justification, as I again pointed out here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=157396&viewfull=1#post157396


TLDR: don't try to come off as an informed person and then call everyone immature for thier arguments based on factual circumstances when you haven't put forth any effort to compile an informed opinion...and please, in case you are feelilng the urge now.... don't go crying if you get hit with someone's pimp hand.

[Rosina]

Thing is, you weren't nice to begin with. You were all like "omg learn2read&research guys" and then made a claim that is 100% false because you yourself didn't read and research. And you even posted it in several threads. Don't be surprised that you are being flamed for it.

Also, noodles355 makes a VERY good point.

I told you why I wasn't nice. I had to see all this rage for a second time. And my mistake was the click and buy logo didn't show up on my ps3. Simple put in all RAGING is not the best way to handle this. Be calm cool and collected. Try to contact SE or the community reps to find out what you can do. Learn about the options you can do.

I;m not against them adding more options. I am against mindless rage, of adults acting like teenagers.
There is no reason, excuse to mindlessly rage over something like this. I personally always had an issue paying for this game till my boyfriend steped in and payed for my game. You guys are being insultive to anyone who remotely tried to help you think a bit clearer. Ypu guys are acting like SE is just out after your money and don;t care if they screw you over. That is "tin foil hat" thinking.

know your options, do research. (yes I did do it also and just never fixed my op, but honestly why should i after reading the rude replies I got and everyone is getting trying to help you guys.)

do not insulot others for trying to help. If you can't play after this change I do have sympathy for you. I was in a similar boat and wasn't very happy.

I'm happy playonline is getting phased out. I hate the fees that came along with trying to pay SE. like 1.00 to reactivate your account if they screwed up the payment or my bank screwed up the payment or the glitch that cased this fee to happen twice.

Every mnth for 6 mnths in my second year of playing i had to deal with reactivating my account. I didn't rage, I just sekked for help. And my b/f offered to help me out.

[RAIST]

Unfortunately, being passive isn't working. People have tried that. They've been treated rudely...had conversations simply cut off without reaching any form of a resolution. All the while.... SE is silent.

We HAVE calmly proven they can do what is being asked of them.

Yet... SE remains silent.

We have contacted them directly through proper channels.

Yet... SE remains silent.

Once all peaceful options are exhausted....maybe it's time to rage against the machine? Go to the window, stick your head outside and shout "I'm mad as hell and I won't take anymore!"

And yet.... SE remains silent.

Next.... accounts will die off either due to attrition or a boycott. Maybe THAT will finally gget through to them....

Only time well tell.

[Rosina]

so much wrong with this post.... where to begin....

For starters, some people are getting completely blocked out with the change, that have been able to pay and play just fine with the billing in POL...one in this very thread....but I guess you completely missed that post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=156494&viewfull=1#post156494

This isn't an issue of fearing change...it is that they are selectively denying access to a certain payment method and allowing it for others. Theere is not justification for this--all the pieces are in place within their business structure, as well with the new system--as evidenced by multiple posts about it in various threads. In some cases, it is locking out people from a payment option they may have been using for up to nearly a decade. But I guess you've missed those posts as well. Again, some are even in this very thread, just a handful of posts back:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=157159&viewfull=1#post157159
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=157217&viewfull=1#post157217
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=157396&viewfull=1#post157396
(yes, I know they are my posts...they were just quick and easy for me to find, but there are more about this issue from others)

Again with the crysta....100 payment cycles... for $1295 USD. Thats how much you have to buy to avoid wasting your money to play the game via crysta in the US. That's computes to 98.6 months....8.2 years. That my friend is a rip off. Again, that was covered in exhaustive detail in other threads. Again, this (among other issues) has been covered in various posts...here's one of mine in another thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.?p=157135&viewfull=1#post157135

and again here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157406&viewfull=1#post157406

you get the idea... Crysta really is a crappy option unless you are able to always buy it in amounts really close to what you need to cover your billing. Buying it in bulk for a game this old and whose priority for playing it long term for so many players just doesn't make a whole lot of sense at this point in time.

And that point about the game not being hosted in your region???!!! Did you REALLY just post that so soon after the big mess witht he server shutdowns due to the earthquake in Japan???!!! FFXI was not designed to run on regional servers. If the posts weren't buried so far back, I would dig it up.. but trust me...this game will not be split up and hosted on localized regional servers. SE had specific reasons for keeping it centralized that were discussed/debated adnausiem several months ago.

As for immaturity....ummm... no. It's more about SE's code of conduct in this matter. IE.. Good Business Ethics, as it was briefly touched on here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157343&viewfull=1#post157343

Which I think pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell. The crux of the problem is that for nearly decade SE has preached routinely about their desire to keep this game platform and regionaly neutral...and yet they make decisions that are ovbviously biased toward one specific region with absolutely no justification, as I again pointed out here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=157396&viewfull=1#post157396


TLDR: don't try to come off as an informed person and then call everyone immature for thier arguments based on factual circumstances when you haven't put forth any effort to compile an informed opinion...and please, in case you are feelilng the urge now.... don't go crying if you get hit with someone's pimp hand.

The comments in bold just prove that you are acitn like a child. There is no excuse for it.
This is NOT the first Time I'm seeing this rage wave. None of you are thinking very clear or seeking help or information. you are just fearring the change (unless the change is a lock out then you have my sypathy) I was addressing the mindless rage over the ones WHO CAN USE THESE OPTIONS.

I hope that clears this up.

[Rosina]

Unfortunately, being passive isn't working. People have tried that. They've been treated rudely...had conversations simply cut off without reaching any form of a resolution. All the while.... SE is silent.

We HAVE calmly proven they can do what is being asked of them.

Yet... SE remains silent.

We have contacted them directly through proper channels.

Yet... SE remains silent.

Once all peaceful options are exhausted....maybe it's time to rage against the machine? Go to the window, stick your head outside and shout "I'm mad as hell and I won't take anymore!"

And yet.... SE remains silent.

Next.... accounts will die off either due to attrition or a boycott. Maybe THAT will finally gget through to them....

Only time well tell.

it has been 1-2 days this rage happen with in seconds of the transfer. no one was calm. They acted like children. And this isn;t the first time I get to see this, how you think I feel coming on the forums and see massive wall of hate?

[noodles355]

don't fault SE because your region didn't allow the game. I do feel sympathy for those players. I was more or less addressing those who do have said option and are ragaing. please ask questions instead of the insults though I again was just trying to help others. To me this is daja vu as ffxiv had a similar wave of rage. if your area doesn't support the game write a letter tho who over controls this in your area asking to allow online games from this company.

I do like the change though. I can play with game with out having a debit card. This honestly made my day.

But again do not insult me, or rage on a forums. Act like the adults you claim and instead of going ARRAAR!! Rage MOAR!!!

calmly discuss with the community reps on your issues and ask if there is anything you can do for you accounts.

I think there are work arounds, like if you set up your account under US codes or something set up a US account. I forget the work arounds, but i read a few when ppl were raging over ffxiv.I never insulted you.
This is a positive change for you and that's great. What people are screaming for, as I said, is an additional method of payment. Adding such a means does not negatively affect you, yet you continue to argue against it.
Let people rage and scream, it is a method of getting SE's attention and it might work. If it works then they will get their other payment method and everyone, including you, will be happy. There is no need for you to argue against it at all.

[RAIST]

actually, this has been brewing for quite some time now... I began looking into the company last weekend, and that was only after some chatter in game about it.

And that comment about the pimphand is actually a little fatherly advice from someone who HAS done some research on the issues at play here. I have been monitoring the threads all weak without saying a word and finally coudn't take it anymore and had to try to set some of the records straight.

Read the posts. Form an opinion. When someone calls you out on your error and provides proof to back up their claim, don't whine and call them immature and run off for a while, then try to come back and state the same misinformed opinion that has already been countered and go and call people immature again.

THAT is a sign of immaturity... or was that insanity? The process of repeating the same action over and over with the same results and expecting a different result everytime......

[Tamoa]

Rosina - please tell me, how does it make sense to you that we are being forced to pay SE via a 3rd party? How does it make sense that SE makes changes to the payment system that actually will cause them to LOSE customers because they live in an area of the world where these payment options aren't supported?

Not everyone can use Crysta either (I can't, and it's just as well, this Crysta thing sounds UTTERLY dumb to me - buy make-believe money to pay for a game? wtf really?). Then they are being forced to pay using ClickAndBuy which, judging from a hell of a lot of posts here, the majority of the people simply don't trust.

If you are going to fix something that's broken (paying via POL had its hiccups, we all know that), don't "fix" it by substituting it with something that's even worse.

So yeah, I don't blame people for being angry. I'm not liking this change myself, because it makes absolutely no sense that we are unable to pay SE directly using our credit or debit cards.

[Rosina]

Q: How will this transfer affect the users who are using a client from a region different from their account's region (i.e. customer living in North America but using Japanese game client)?
A: The transfer will not affect the customers that are using a client from a different region.

In addition, customers will not be required to have the region for their Square Enix account match the region for their PlayOnline account. However, please be aware of the following:

- Customers who currently have a link in place will be required to transfer their PlayOnline account to the Square Enix account it is linked to.
- Payment methods will differ depending on the region of the Square Enix account.
- The currency of fees (i.e. monthly subscription fee, World Transfer Service fee, fee for purchasing registration codes, etc.) will be based on the region for the Square Enix account
- If a customer wishes to register any additional content such as expansions, they will be required to use products from the PlayOnline ID’s region (i.e. customers with a North American Square Enix account will be required to acquire a product from the North American region).


found this is in the faq i hope it helps. anyone one with region issues. If not least I tried

[RAIST]

oh, and FYI Rosina, here is a thread started on 7/20 about the new payment options:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11782-Re-New-payment-system?p=149887&viewfull=1#post149887

Which, interestingly enough--YOU POSTED IN ON 7/21

The point is, concerns about these changes have been stewing for a while, not just since the evening of 7/26.

[Rosina]

Rosina - please tell me, how does it make sense to you that we are being forced to pay SE via a 3rd party? How does it make sense that SE makes changes to the payment system that actually will cause them to LOSE customers because they live in an area of the world where these payment options aren't supported?

Not everyone can use Crysta either (I can't, and it's just as well, this Crysta thing sounds UTTERLY dumb to me - buy make-believe money to pay for a game? wtf really?). Then they are being forced to pay using ClickAndBuy which, judging from a hell of a lot of posts here, the majority of the people simply don't trust.

If you are going to fix something that's broken (paying via POL had its hiccups, we all know that), don't "fix" it by substituting it with something that's even worse.

So yeah, I don't blame people for being angry. I'm not liking this change myself, because it makes absolutely no sense that we are unable to pay SE directly using our credit or debit cards.

well first off this thread wasn't for those with no options due to region.

But I am not unfamilur with these forms of payments. I played free to play games that required point cards to pay for addy services. I played games with time cards. I also play on the 360 and very familur wityh how point cards work. And a bit of an fyi, play online was a bit of a third party.

If you think cysta is dum,b you certainly didn't look into it. It can be bought with out using a credit or debit card. For those who do not have a debit or credit account or those leary of freely giving away info.

Like I said I did my research and fixed my thread up to clear any issues. it actually does make sence why those outside the japan can't pay SE. They use different currency then us and have a different way of banking. it is not easy to be an international game. Most games are region based such as wow. ffxi is one of few mmo who are international.

[Panthera]

Seriously guys, rage moar?

Sorry for using internet speack but it is just a video game. If you do not like the new billing practices. Then simply do not play.

Sorry for the wrong info on my part, but honestly THE MAIN POINT was saying if you guys do some research, there are ways to pay for the game other then click and buy.

Crysta in a nutshell will be my payment. And I know how it works. Simply do this option instead of click and buy.

So yes you guys are just fearing change instead of looking into things. Sometimes you do not get what you want in life.

I will break down how crysta works, which is by far the safest option. Or do you not remember that SE was hacked twice before?

anyway $1= 100 crysta

if your account is say 15.95 a mnth, round this up to 16.00. that means you need at least 1600 crysta. look at the list of cryta amounts and pick the best option for what you want. I would just save up and get a $100 worth. Or simply use your credit card on paypal for the ultimate pay. This put 10,000 cysta on your account. And you will not have to toucvh to for several months. if a flat fee of $100 is simply not for you. just take your account fee round it to the nearest dollor then double or triple it. and pay two to three mnths in advance. It is very easy.

Also contact SE about your region. Stating click and buy don't work for you. Also do not blame se because of the country you live in. That is your regions fault for not hosting the game in the first place.
Simple put instead of raging just use the option you can and ask questions to the dev team.

No need for all this imaturaty over a video game. I only wanted to help you guys out. since there is no need for it.
Do not fault me for trying.


actually I did. To me click and buy is do different then paypal. I just didn;t see the logo cuz I set my ffxiv account on my ps3 for that I'm sorry abouty the mistake. but still no need to disrespect me for trying to help you guys. I'm not gonna be nice, if all i see is just blind rage over change.

Apologies for the long quotes, but editing would be doing an injustice to everyone concerned. There it is. It speaks for itself--But I'll add commentary anyway. It's all about the lulz--I'm addicted.

I only wish I had the intellectual simplicity to casually throw away not hours, days, or months, but years of dedication to an endeavor while trivializing my own efforts. I do this all the time. Then again I'm immortal, so time, effort and energy don't mean anything to me, so MMO's are the perfect way to spend eternity. It's a good thing--I'm going after a Mythic.

Rosina, if you're gonna play for SE's team, you need to step up your game. Proofreading helps, as does having one's facts straight before you start a thread. Allow me to demonstrate:

I realize that everyone feels anxious about change, but there's no reason for alarm. Players may still make automatic payments through their credit cards via Clickandbuy. After setting up one's account, there's no more hassle, and players are awarded an in-game item if they register right away! They charge a fee, but it's very small, only 3.7%; only about 50 cents on a basic account. The Chrysta system allows players to pay months in advance if they wish, so they don't have to worry about payments. Chrysta may be purchased through Ultimatepay or Clickandbuy. FFXI customers have more payment options than ever before!

Basically, the first rule of the Square-Enix club is, you do not talk about how some customers can pay directly without going through a 3rd party. The second rule of the Square-Enix Club is...

No really. SE didn't tell this to their NA playerbase; we had to put this together for ourselves.

You feel like you're taking up something unpopular; SE's changes. I admire your courage. I realize you're trying to be informative, and wish to pacify the playerbase's anger. We realize FFXI is not being denied us, there's just new payment options. But we don't find a one of them attractive; we find them dangerous. However much people can be attached to their virtual characters they invested nearly a decade into, they are infinitely more attached to their own bank accounts, and do not give out personal information to every jive talkin' mofo with a net address and purple suit. Mamma didn't raise no fools!

[RAIST]

Actually... no, POL was not a third party. It is SE's Database (acquired during the merger), housed on their servers, in their buildings. The POL servers were used to communicate with a clearing house to process all the payments.

Just had to clear up that bit of misinformation.

[Tamoa]

well first off this thread wasn't for those with no options due to region.

But I am not unfamilur with these forms of payments. I played free to play games that required point cards to pay for addy services. I played games with time cards. I also play on the 360 and very familur wityh how point cards work. And a bit of an fyi, play online was a bit of a third party.

If you think cysta is dum,b you certainly didn't look into it. It can be bought with out using a credit or debit card. For those who do not have a debit or credit account or those leary of freely giving away info.

Like I said I did my research and fixed my thread up to clear any issues. it actually does make sence why those outside the japan can't pay SE. They use different currency then us and have a different way of banking. it is not easy to be an international game. Most games are region based such as wow. ffxi is one of few mmo who are international.

Bolded part #1: In a roundabout way, yes. Why substitute POL with another 3rd party that's even worse, a 3rd party that has nothing to do with SE at all? Why not make it easier on everybody, including SE, and let us pay them directly.

Bolded part #2: "They use different currency then us" - who is "us" in this case? You realize there are people from a lot of different countries playing this game, right??? Meaning a lot of different currencies - which has never been a problem. And they have a different way of banking? Really? Could you post some proof of that please? Or is that just you guessing?

Starting to think you are some 15 year old who never had a credit or debit card in your own name.

[Zatias]

I love the tags for this thread XP

And no Rosina, it's not fear of change. But that's already been said multiple times. I myself am displeased because of the inconvenience of it, their ally with this shady "Click&Buy", and the discrimination to certain countries. For example, AU players cannot purchase Crysta, while JP customers can still pay their bill directly with a credit card.

It's discrimination at its finest.

[RAIST]

Guess we need to provide Rosina with a little more light reading:


If you think cysta is dum,b you certainly didn't look into it. It can be bought with out using a credit or debit card. For those who do not have a debit or credit account or those leary of freely giving away info.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157432&viewfull=1#post157432
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system?p=157425&viewfull=1#post157425



Like I said I did my research and fixed my thread up to clear any issues. it actually does make sence why those outside the japan can't pay SE. They use different currency then us and have a different way of banking. it is not easy to be an international game. Most games are region based such as wow. ffxi is one of few mmo who are international.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.?p=157235&viewfull=1#post157235


Oh screw it... just read thorugh the more recent threads on this. I mean actually sit down and read the threads to see the debates that have actually taken place. Nearly every thing has been countered at least once in these threads:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12227-Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12202-Reason-for-the-payment-system-change-(Found-it!)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.

[Arlan]

Would like to say something once more to those who are not against this change and are filling up every thread about it with arguments. (Looking at you, Rosina and Korpg among others)

This change does not affect you.
This change negatively affects other people.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option does not affect you.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option positively affects other people.

People are screaming for a way to directly pay SE with our CC. If SE were to add a method to do this it would have no negative impact whatsoever on you, but would have a positive impact on many. How can you possibily argue against something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way but positively affects many others? It's rediculous.

This is an extremely intelligent Reply.
After reading a few people's posts, including Rosina's, I agree 100% with Noodles355 and I totally understand what she is saying.

This quote from noodles355 not only makes sense, but it gets to the point which I admire.
Sometimes, people like to cause troubles even when it doesn't effect them, generally speaking.
Sometimes people like to start arguments even when it doesn't effect them, generally speaking.

But sometimes, there are people who look at both points of views and realize what effects who and who effects what, then realize what can possibly work to make everyone happy based on compromising.

Its good that people can find ways to work around the system, but that only happens if the system itself fails.
If the system itself fails, then people will find ways around it. If the system is successfuly good, then there is no way people need to find a way around it if it works for everyone's needs.

[malf]

To those wanabee smart like korpg rosina, ilax, please stop trying to convince your point of view is the best and ppl saying they'll quit are simply whinner who should have whatever quit.

My playtime : 1052 days. Started playing august 2007. 11 jobs (8 leveled up before abyssea exists, 1051 merits points). I'm not an hardcore gamer living for ffxi, but only a player who spent days behind ffxi doing nothing, bazaaring, questing, farming, skilling up, doing HLS event, exping.

I'm not addicted as you spending hours to try to give money to SE. If I can't pay easily, I guess I will play now as I'm playing eve online buying credit on demand = nearly never. Because making the choice to pay , and doing almost nothing productive in ffxi, will give me the opportunity to try to do something else more productive.

btw i will not answer to flame discussion about my point of view with narrow minded I want always to have the last word, will not take time for this. You even didn't understand that living with other people means other people CAN have a different point of view, and it's a basic well known rule.

[Hoshi]

So what's up with the first thread showing how much people dislike this new system being deleted? Looks like a thread about paypal is gone too. If SE thinks deleting threads where players are unhappy is going to make the unhappiness go away they've got another thing coming.

[Maacha]

I wonder if you even thought about the fact that this new way of paying will allow people to come back to the game. I am mainly talking about people with US accounts but being EU, paying with EU cards, cards that are, for some of them, denied from POL since 2008-2009.
All these people can now pay through ClickandBuy and enjoy FFXI again, and they are many.\

The number of people able to come back will be dwarfed by the number of people forced to quit because they have no way to pay for the game anymore. People who live in countries that cannot purchase Crysta and are not covered by Click&Buy.


That is your regions fault for not hosting the game in the first place.

/facepalm

[Kraggy]

So what's up with the first thread showing how much people dislike this new system being deleted? Looks like a thread about paypal is gone too. If SE thinks deleting threads where players are unhappy is going to make the unhappiness go away they've got another thing coming.
You mean THIS ONE? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12116-Add-paypal which currently is alive and well on page one of the forum index?

[MarkovChain]

To those wanabee smart like korpg rosina, ilax, please stop trying to convince your point of view is the best and ppl saying they'll quit are simply whinner who should have whatever quit.

They are.



My playtime : 1052 days. Started playing august 2007. 11 jobs (8 leveled up before abyssea exists, 1051 merits points). I'm not an hardcore gamer living for ffxi, but only a player who spent days behind ffxi doing nothing, bazaaring, questing, farming, skilling up, doing HLS event, exping.

You are hardcore. You are tired of the game (look at your playtime). So you quit. Why would you get mad over changing a paiement methods (that takes roughly 5 minutes) otherwise ¿

[Aver]

They are.



You are hardcore. You are tired of the game (look at your playtime). So you quit. Why would you get mad over changing a paiement methods (that takes roughly 5 minutes) otherwise ¿

You have absolutely no idea what's going on in these threads do you? Have you no reading comprehension?

It's not the payment change. It's the payment OPTIONS. Neither of them are good, nor are they what we want. How is it that every other MMO company has direct billing but square just has to be different and throw us through a third party, all the while leaving its JP members the ability to pay pretty much however they want?

It's terrible business. You'd do well to remember that.

[Kraggy]

Neither of them are good
UltimatePay works fine for me thanks.

[Horadrim]

What is actually is everyone's problem with Click and Buy? It seems like a generic paypal clone to me -- SE trusts them because they are already endorsed by a large number of top end businesses. They can't be *that* "shady" or else there would be a much, much larger outcry about them across the board.

Not saying they don't suck, just saying they can't be nearly as bad as everyone's making them out to be without getting any kind of negative articles out of a google search.

[Aver]

UltimatePay works fine for me thanks.

Congratulations! The rest of us who'd rather not go through a third party and instead pay square directly (with automated billing, no less!) will be over here. ->

(Because regardless of what you think you're doing, you're still going through a third party, and you're still adding extra steps to the process. Kudos to you for wanting to deal with it. I don't.)



What is actually is everyone's problem with Click and Buy? It seems like a generic paypal clone to me -- SE trusts them because they are already endorsed by a large number of top end businesses. They can't be *that* "shady" or else there would be a much, much larger outcry about them across the board.

Not saying they don't suck, just saying they can't be nearly as bad as everyone's making them out to be without getting any kind of negative articles out of a google search.

Banks are blocking CnB. That alone should be enough. My bank (NFCU) sent me a letter of "suspicious activity" that I had to call and clear up. Chase outright blocks it and you have to pull teeth to get it taken care of.

I doubt this is something they'd do lightly/without reason, and that alone is enough for me.

[Kraggy]

According to some posts on Alla it seems some banks either won't allow you to use C&B while others warn customers they're 'shady' .. whether you believe those people posting that is another matter .. and links to web sites listing problems with C&B have also been posted.

They're also rated F at BBB apparently. Plenty of posts around describing problems people have had in other MMO forums too, such as Lord of The Rings: Online, Turbine have been dealing with C&B for some time now.

[Rosina]

so far you guys are proving me right. Ypu are personally attacking people who are helping you out, because we are flabergasted at the rage. Blind rage is blind rage. Please read my edited thread. Please read beyond the title. If you can't do that simply do not post.

I have every right to post my opinions about what is going on. I find it very childish that those who can use said options are raging. You can be upset and say your peace, but do not do so in a childish mannor.

If you take time to read my thread i'm ONLY addressing those who are blindly raging at the changes who can use them. If you can not use either optiob call SE directly and try to work something out.

If is not the first time people went postal over crysta and click and buy. FFxiv players at first did the same. But no longer do. Most of us are sitting and playing and have our accounts set up ready for when the payment fees start up.

It took me 5 mn to set up my ffxiv account using crysta as a payment option. And addying crysta is easy

[Rosina]

According to some posts on Alla it seems some banks either won't allow you to use C&B while others warn customers they're 'shady' .. whether you believe those people posting that is another matter .. and links to web sites listing problems with C&B have also been posted.

They're also rated F at BBB apparently. Plenty of posts around describing problems people have had in other MMO forums too, such as Lord of The Rings: Online, Turbine have been dealing with C&B for some time now.

then Talk to an SE rep with this info. I think all those things are shady pay pal included. Thats why I like using time orpoint cards to pay for my games instead of a credit or debit account.

[Rosina]

also who ever keeps changing the tags to insult me. Please drop oit. I fixed my post when I was corrected about my info. And fixed it to only address the people who can use the options but still throwing a tantrum. I suggest you look up japanese banking and currency which is partialy why we those outside of japan are not paying SE directly.

not many moo are international, or have international servers. Most are by region. Only difference is playonline was a middleman for us to pay for ffxi. And that is getting phased out. we will only use it as a boot up to play ffxi.

I'm no stranger to mmo changing their billing practices. Or using similar methods to pay. For those who can, get to know your options.
For those who can't, you have my sympathy, please contact SE directly to talk it with them.

[Cream_Soda]

A lot of the complaints are that click and buy is the only direct debit/credit card payment (crysta is not, so not sure what that has to do with them).

Then you have the people who are in countries where they're not even able to buy crysta, even if they wanted to.

Then you have the fact that JP can buy crysta (or directly w/o click n buy) in exact amounts, where we're given amounts that don't add up with our payment.

For example, my $12.95, I'm paying $15/month every month just to have enough crysta until month 5. While it's the same amount, I don't want to have to pay more up front.

[Aver]

Holy lol.

There is no blind rage here. Disappointment and disbelief, sure, but blind rage notsomuch. Some people express it by quitting and making their financial marks, I make it by posting and hoping like hell someone with a few more working neurons than the people who thought this was a good idea notices and fixes the problem.

The problem here is unequal treatment and unfair billing practices. Once again, while it may suit you, and while you may be happy to buy game cards, it does not suit everyone. I'd wager to say it doesn't suit most.

Once again, big picture is big. Self contained bubble of ignorance is apparently bliss.

[Malacite]

OP is showing incredible ignorance/naivete here. Can you really be that callous?

Click & Buy is a far cry from Paypal. First of all, a lot of complaints from the EU users have been about how their banks won't even recognize them, so that nullifies the direct payment option outright, forcing them to buy Crysta which means spending more than the actual monthly fee because we can't purchase crysta in precise amounts.

This is a hassle a lot of us didn't need nor ask for, yet is being forced upon us all the same.

Secondly, as previously cited, is Click & Buy's F rating from the Better Business Bureau, vs PayPal's A+. Never mind that they also tack on all kinds of hidden charges, interest on money transfers to your account (which are mandatory in some cases) and various other complaints that have arisen. So instead of the well known & trusted Paypal, we get this shady group that most of us probably never heard of before - apparently for good reason too. I'm absolutely not comfortable giving these jerkwads my personal & credit information.

Then you have the Japanese, who maintain the option to pay SE easily by directly registering their cards with them. Well, why don't the rest of us have this option? I've yet to see a single good reason - because there isn't one. The sheer lazy, backhanded treatment by SE is unacceptable and clearly will not be tolerated by a good amount of us.

I've paid for about $20 worth of crysta for now, as I've chosen to give SE the benefit of the doubt. But after that I'll only be getting another $10 (effectively covering 2 months but that'll be $4 I'll never see again) if they don't fix this nonsense soon and then that's it. 8 Years of fun & memories coming to a somber end, all because of some very poor management decisions on SE's end.

Even if I did stay, the majority of my friends & LS are rather upset over these changes as well, so why stick around?


We're not all crying here like a bunch of children - rather you are the child trying to act all mature, being indifferent to how this will affect others & judging our respective financial situations.

[Dauntless]

OP is showing incredible ignorance/naivete here. Can you really be that callous?

Click & Buy is a far cry from Paypal. First of all, a lot of complaints from the EU users have been about how their banks won't even recognize them, so that nullifies the direct payment option outright, forcing them to buy Crysta which means spending more than the actual monthly fee because we can't purchase crysta in precise amounts.

This is a hassle a lot of us didn't need nor ask for, yet is being forced upon us all the same.

Secondly, as previously cited, is Click & Buy's F rating from the Better Business Bureau, vs PayPal's A+. Never mind that they also tack on all kinds of hidden charges, interest on money transfers to your account (which are mandatory in some cases) and various other complaints that have arisen. So instead of the well known & trusted Paypal, we get this shady group that most of us probably never heard of before - apparently for good reason too. I'm absolutely not comfortable giving these jerkwads my personal & credit information.

Then you have the Japanese, who maintain the option to pay SE easily by directly registering their cards with them. Well, why don't the rest of us have this option? I've yet to see a single good reason - because there isn't one. The sheer lazy, backhanded treatment by SE is unacceptable and clearly will not be tolerated by a good amount of us.

I've paid for about $20 worth of crysta for now, as I've chosen to give SE the benefit of the doubt. But after that I'll only be getting another $10 (effectively covering 2 months but that'll be $4 I'll never see again) if they don't fix this nonsense soon and then that's it. 8 Years of fun & memories coming to a somber end, all because of some very poor management decisions on SE's end.

Even if I did stay, the majority of my friends & LS are rather upset over these changes as well, so why stick around?


We're not all crying here like a bunch of children - rather you are the child trying to act all mature, being indifferent to how this will affect others & judging our respective financial situations.

I appreciate your effort, but just stop trying. I'm fairly certain Rosina is just trolling us all. If not...I don't even know what to say.

[Zindel]

then Talk to an SE rep with this info. I think all those things are shady pay pal included. Thats why I like using time orpoint cards to pay for my games instead of a credit or debit account.

In all honesty because it is not my job. While I have enjoyed the years I have spent on this game, SE and Final Fantasy is not a large portion of my life. Furthermore if SE management has not done its research in choosing who to partner with (its legal team in knowing who they are dealing with when making a contract to deal with and what it means for their customers) then I doubt I will get through to them anyway.

Will it be sad for me to leave the game? Not really it just the closing of one chapter of my online life as I move into the next.

[Horadrim]

Congratulations! The rest of us who'd rather not go through a third party and instead pay square directly (with automated billing, no less!) will be over here. ->

(Because regardless of what you think you're doing, you're still going through a third party, and you're still adding extra steps to the process. Kudos to you for wanting to deal with it. I don't.)




Banks are blocking CnB. That alone should be enough. My bank (NFCU) sent me a letter of "suspicious activity" that I had to call and clear up. Chase outright blocks it and you have to pull teeth to get it taken care of.

I doubt this is something they'd do lightly/without reason, and that alone is enough for me.

Haven't been dealing with chase very long, have you?

The reason they block it is probably because its a random charge from a foreign country, the likes of which makes them question the validity of the charges. That aside, I've had similar problems with even domestic charges before -- when I first got my new car I had trouble getting my payments through.

I understand the problem now, though, just saying again that its not just CnB.

Weird, though, I never had any problem signing up with CnB for FFXIV -- they did do that verification payment (the little 1 dollar thing) to make sure it'd go through and I never had an issue. I guess since we haven't paid for the monthly sub I can't be overzealous about that working, though.



According to some posts on Alla it seems some banks either won't allow you to use C&B while others warn customers they're 'shady' .. whether you believe those people posting that is another matter .. and links to web sites listing problems with C&B have also been posted.

They're also rated F at BBB apparently. Plenty of posts around describing problems people have had in other MMO forums too, such as Lord of The Rings: Online, Turbine have been dealing with C&B for some time now.

Banks generally don't like random charges from mildly obscure companies from other countries. That's sort of why Paypal came into existence to begin with, isn't it?

There's another option, right? What exactly's wrong with Crysta? In ability to pay specific amounts? What are the amounts you're limited to?

[Rosina]

you guys have no reason to insult me. enhd of story. I'm not trolling you guys. I had to deal wuith this stupid crap over @ ffxiv.

And since you guys can't even read past the title yyou wil, see

DOES NOT ADDRESS THE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T USE SAID OPTIONS AT ALL.

I'm not even being rude here. Yall are insult over your right to be upset. You know what be upset. Just do not insult people trying to help.

Also my family had a bad run in with paypal. Somehow my moms password no longer works. And we had several issue trying to get payments through using paypal.

Leave you insults at the door, please. Please just do not post if all you are gonna do is insult me. I am doing nothing wrong here. I have every right to not enjoy how you guys are handling your anger.

[Cream_Soda]

You can sit here and tell them what they can or cannot do all you want, but if you actually thought that anyone would listen, lol.

As much as you have a right not to enjoy what they're saying, they also have the right to express their anger in the manner they see fit.

[Rosina]

I'm not back peddling also and you guys have no idea what trolling is.

anyone who write it will get reported. There is no need to treat me with disrespect over you being upset over a payment change. I just think what you guys are doing is unnessisary. And should only speak for yourself in this anger rather then a hole community.

please just stop being rude. And stop changing the tags to insult me. That is pretty childish.

[Rosina]

You can sit here and tell them what they can or cannot do all you want, but if you actually thought that anyone would listen, lol.

As much as you have a right not to enjoy what they're saying, they also have the right to express their anger in the manner they see fit.

forum rules say other wise :)

ps love the siggy

[Cream_Soda]

forum rules say other wise :)
Then the best course of action would likely to be report said posts. Backseat modding will accomplish nothing other than get you more insults, which from your posts, is what I think you're trying to avoid.


ps love the siggy

back at ya

[Rosina]

any chance a mod canlook inti who is changing the tags to insult me? Since it is against the forum ruse to personally insult a person.
I would love to report who is doing it. Trust me,

[Rosina]

Then the best course of action would likely to be report said posts. Backseat modding will accomplish nothing other than get you more insults, which from your posts, is what I think you're trying to avoid.



back at ya

if i know away to report those changing the tags I would trust me. I'm not trying to back eat modding. I just do not enjoy getting treated poorly for no good reason. I do not enjoy being called or reported on for trolling when I was provoked into it due to their need to act like children.
ps i soo got a gloss print out of my poster version and gonna get a nice frame for it ^.^

[mistmonster]

Haven't been dealing with chase very long, have you?

The reason they block it is probably because its a random charge from a foreign country, the likes of which makes them question the validity of the charges. That aside, I've had similar problems with even domestic charges before -- when I first got my new car I had trouble getting my payments through.

I have been a Chase card holder for many years. I'm will cut and paste my story again (starting to feel like a broken record)

Ok when 14 came out I knew nothing about click and buy. So I set it up. They did a temp charge to my cc to make sure is was valid (this is normal) and before I was barely through the paper work I had an automated call asking if I authorized the change and I said I did. Not an hour later a person from Chase called me and asked literally "do you know what you are getting into?" They said they would freeze my account every time click and buy charged it. so pretty much my bank of choice doesn't like them. I'm not the only person reporting this either. Apparently AMEX does the same thing.

So a rep from Chase who may or may not have know what I was actually trying to do with click and buy told me not to use it.. That's enough for me

[chubrocka]

OK what have I missed about the billing change???

[Rosina]

back eat modding LOL i "<3" my keyboard.

[Rosina]

i find it funny a rep would call saying something like that. To me that is unheard of. Are you sure it was even a Rep? it coulda been someone else who might have your info.
I have never heard of a card company calling a person about stuff they buy saying they will freeze the account based on a customers choice in purchase.

[Byrth]

i find it funny a rep would call saying something like that. To me that is unheard of. Are you sure it was even a Rep? it coulda been someone else who might have your info.
I have never heard of a card company calling a person about stuff they buy saying they will freeze the account based on a customers choice in purchase.

I've had it happen to me multiple times due to charges the CC company found "suspicious." Once it was because I traveled internationally without telling them, and the other time it was a result of an online purchase I made. They tend to be cautious, but if CC companies (who can basically tell people to go screw themselves) are worried by a company, that company must be pretty terrible.

[mistmonster]

Trust me it was a rep from Chase. They knew about other purchases on the card and I have never had a problem with that card. I buy things oversees often so they are even used to seeing charges like that. And yes that is the first time that has EVER happened to me. They wanted to talk to me about click and buy even though I ok'ed the purchase.

I don't know what else to say, I didn't record the conversation so I have no way to prove it.

[Aver]

Multiple reports from multiple people using different financial institutions aren't enough?

Shall we poke the large mammal in the room so that you may notice it?

[Rosina]

Trust me it was a rep from Chase. They knew about other purchases on the card and I have never had a problem with that card. I buy things oversees often so they are even used to seeing charges like that. And yes that is the first time that has EVER happened to me. They wanted to talk to me about click and buy even though I ok'ed the purchase.

I don't know what else to say, I didn't record the conversation so I have no way to prove it.

sounds like something from the godfather.

So far not many ffxiv players are coming forward with this info. I guess most went with crysta.

can a mod please look into who setting the tags to insult me? it is getting annoying to have to change them

honestly though guys. Please do point out where im insulting anyone of you. I have not once insulted anyone here.

You guys who are doing the tags. You honest to god are much worth then the ffxiv crowd. XD and the only issue they had with click and by was it was "hard and long to set up".

[Rosina]

Multiple reports from multiple people using different financial institutions aren't enough?

Shall we poke the large mammal in the room so that you may notice it?

what are you talking about?

[Maacha]

So far not many ffxiv players are coming forward with this info.

FFXIV players can't read the FFXI forums unless they also have a FFXI account, and vice versa.

[Puck]

Sorry Mistmonster, but you're speaking to a child that actually doesn't understand things like how financial institutions work and how they deal proactively with fraud and identity theft. Your story seems like a farce to them, and it doesn't jive with the way they view SE and all its corporate decisions through rose-tinted lenses.
Honestly Mistmonster, your first-hand experience should be a red flag to all, but there are a handful of people that for one reason or another have a serious obsession with blindly defending a multi-million dollar corporation in all matters.

Edit:
Maacha: BEST SIG EVAR.

[Selzak]

i find it funny a rep would call saying something like that. To me that is unheard of. Are you sure it was even a Rep? it coulda been someone else who might have your info.
I have never heard of a card company calling a person about stuff they buy saying they will freeze the account based on a customers choice in purchase.
First of all, it's not funny and your attempt to 'reason' it away for your argument made me lol.

Secondly,
How can you sit there and talk out of your ass about this kind of thing when you've been using your Dad's CC? You should ask yourself if you're really qualified to speak on financial matters to such an extent, or in your own words "dontg talke bout stuf u dont kno bout". Everyone is upset about these payment options, and you're like some 16 yr old sitting here with your daddy's credit card in hand telling us that we're overreacting and don't know what we're talking about. It's just ridiculous.

Oh joy, also: "Paypal is bad because [my mom forget her password]."

This must be intentional...right?

[Aver]

what are you talking about?

I didn't think this would need explanation, but basically what I'm saying is that the impression you're giving me is that you'd be too blind too see the multiple-ton giant animal charging at you, or too naive to think it wouldn't just trample right over you.

But don't take it as an insult, god no. Just sit back with your wine and steak, Cypher. Ignorance is bliss.

[Malamasala]

can a mod please look into who setting the tags to insult me? it is getting annoying to have to change them


Why do you bother? Tags are there so you can search the forum. And I think only the people who put the tags there would be likely to search for them (so they can see who to pester more).

I'd only be worried if someone was actually deleting tags that were on topic. Since it would make it harder for SE to find it.

[Puck]

Nail on the freakin' head, Selzak.

[Dauntless]

Everyone here is upset about these payment options, and you're like some 16 yr old sitting here with your daddy's credit card in hand telling us that we're over reacting and don't know what we're talking about. It's just ridiculous.

Whoaaa slow down, I'm 16 and I'm raging because I'm not paying for my own account and I don't want the person paying for me to have to jump through all these hoops to pay for a game. Not everyone is daddy's little spoiled brat.

[Korpg]

Would like to say something once more to those who are not against this change and are filling up every thread about it with arguments. (Looking at you, Rosina and Korpg among others)

This change does not affect you.
This change negatively affects other people.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option does not affect you.
Adding the option to make direct CC payments to SE, alongside the crysta option positively affects other people.

People are screaming for a way to directly pay SE with our CC. If SE were to add a method to do this it would have no negative impact whatsoever on you, but would have a positive impact on many. How can you possibily argue against something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way but positively affects many others? It's rediculous.

Blame the people who abused Click and Pay because I'm sure that most of those countries listed in their no-service list were where most of the scams that used Click and Pay came from.

Why not call Square Enix Customer Service and request a payment method to directly pay thru them? They have one setup for JP, maybe they can let you in with that group.

[Puck]

Whoaaa slow down, I'm 16 and I'm raging because I'm not paying for my own account and I don't want the person paying for me to have to jump through all these hoops to pay for a game. Not everyone is daddy's little spoiled brat.
There's a huge difference between your comprehension of the situation and the other minor in question. You clearly have a firm grasp of the situation, Dauntless, and I've seen you make a lot of good points across several threads. The point of Selzak's comment wasn't a generalization about age being a disqualifier for valid opinions, simply that the person in question is incredibly naive and in no way qualified to speak out on financial matters as they've so actively done in such a poor manner across every thread on the topic.
I'm purposely being very wordy because I know one minor in this topic will fully comprehend what I'm saying and another won't.

[Romanova]

I like how OP spend the past few days calling everyone stupid over something the OP thought incorrectly. And is now having a hissy fit over some tags in a thread.

Pot meet kettle.

[Dauntless]

There's a huge difference between your comprehension of the situation and the other minor in question. You clearly have a firm grasp of the situation, Dauntless, and I've seen you make a lot of good points across several threads. The point of Selzak's comment wasn't a generalization about age being a disqualifier for valid opinions, simply that the person in question is incredibly naive and in no way qualified to speak out on financial matters as they've so actively done in such a poor manner across every thread on the topic.
I'm purposely being very wordy because I know one minor in this topic will fully comprehend what I'm saying and another won't.

I lol'd. I like white. I dislike SE apologists.

[Selzak]

Whoaaa slow down, I'm 16 and I'm raging because I'm not paying for my own account and I don't want the person paying for me to have to jump through all these hoops to pay for a game. Not everyone is daddy's little spoiled brat.
Did I say that they were? I started playing when I was about 16, and I used my Dad's CC in the beginning. The difference is that if a financial issue popped up I wasn't going to tell the people who were paying for their own shit that they didn't know what they were talking about and pretend that shady businesses don't exist while I scoffed at them for caring about the 5$ they'd be overpaying every month.

[Dauntless]

Did I say that they were? I started playing when I was about 16, and I used my Dad's CC in the beginning. The difference is that if a financial issue popped up I wasn't going to tell the people who were paying for their own shit that they didn't know what they were talking about and pretend that shady businesses don't exist while I scoffed at them for caring about the 5$ they'd be overpaying every month.

I could've worded that better, I meant that last line as a dig to Rosina, not you.

[Puck]

I like how OP spend the past few days calling everyone stupid over something the OP thought incorrectly. And is now having a hissy fit over some tags in a thread.

Pot meet kettle.
I noticed that in another thread, where suddenly they're all:

I hope things cool down soon. And go back to normal I just want to reconnect with my mates from years pastr and re learn the game. All this rage is making it hard to even post anything. People go into threads just to insult the poster for not raging with them.
"I totally just want everyone to get along, I didn't just spend the last day flaming people over something I was completely wrong about, I just want to chill and be cool with everyone and the trees and the animals."

[Tamoa]

also who ever keeps changing the tags to insult me. Please drop oit. I fixed my post when I was corrected about my info. And fixed it to only address the people who can use the options but still throwing a tantrum. I suggest you look up japanese banking and currency which is partialy why we those outside of japan are not paying SE directly.

not many moo are international, or have international servers. Most are by region. Only difference is playonline was a middleman for us to pay for ffxi. And that is getting phased out. we will only use it as a boot up to play ffxi.

I'm no stranger to mmo changing their billing practices. Or using similar methods to pay. For those who can, get to know your options.
For those who can't, you have my sympathy, please contact SE directly to talk it with them.

Re. the bolded part: where on earth do you get that from?????? If their banking system is so different from every other country in this world, and the different currencies are such a major problem, how do Japanese companies even manage to do international business at all?

If you are going to make claims like that, support them by posting some links that will prove what you are saying is correct. Otherwise, stop talking out your rear.

[Rosina]

Re. the bolded part: where on earth do you get that from?????? If their banking system is so different from every other country in this world, and the different currencies are such a major problem, how do Japanese companies even manage to do international business at all?

If you are going to make claims like that, support them by posting some links that will prove what you are saying is correct. Otherwise, stop talking out your rear.

I would If i could, yen is calculated different then the usd. If no one is willing to look it up themselves, not my problem. Just proves how much blind rage everyone is having. Here is the thing all point which include a personal attack or insult to me is pretty much invalid.

Once you start acting like a child, your opinion is worth less then the money you pay for to use the internent. There are better ways to go about your dislike. So far now we have ragers vs se appologist wars.
why? Why over something so petty?

[Korpg]

Re. the bolded part: where on earth do you get that from?????? If their banking system is so different from every other country in this world, and the different currencies are such a major problem, how do Japanese companies even manage to do international business at all?

Because most businesses use $USD as the basis of their transactions, and it is easier to keep track of. Although it depends on the accounting system in place. I'm sure that JP GAAP allows the conversion accounts for all other countries, but since $USD is, or was, the safest currency, they use it as a buffer for other countries. $USD is by far the most used currency in the world.

It is kindof complicated to explain, and is even more complicated for people to read who are not used to accounting standards and international accounting methods. It takes years of research for accountants to understand the principles behind the methods used by companies to record and report the Foreign Transaction Gain/Loss accounts, and I will never do it justice to try to explain it in such a short post.

But you can do the research yourself, you just got to know the general standards first though. Might as well become an accountant if you do.

[Ryaan]

Alrighty throwing my two cents in and I apologize ahead of time if this has already been said. There are a ton of posts and several different forums on this now kind of hard to keep them all sperated in my head after reading them all. MY and I repeate MY personal problem with this isnt that SE is changing their billing system. Times change and I understand maybe other contracts are up and they decided it was time to condence down. They have a system they probably have to keep paying for from 14 might as well put some use to it. I would personally do the crstya route IF I could buy exact amounts. I dont have a problem myself with logging on every 2-3 months and pre paying for it I just want to pay exactly what I need and not more than what I need.

As for Clickandbuy I will never use them. I have seen to many bad reviews over various forums on here, with Steam, and other gaming sites. You have a company who has a shady reputation. Even if its just cause they have been used for scams do you really want to trust a company who is constantly being associated with this kind of transactions. While no it MAY not be C&B themselves its still the type of business they are associtated with now. Its like going to buy a car would you keep going to a company who has been know to use less than worthy parts. They may not make the parts but cause the parts have issues and the problem keeps coming up its not something your going to keep dealing with. If you want to put your trust into this company by all means you have the right to BUT I also have the right to not trust and use them.

Bottom line i wish SE would let me buy crysta in exact amounts. Would be even better if I could set up say my Paypal as some have said to automatically buy this crysta each month. I have (and would recommend to all others who are stating a negative opinion on the matter) sent in a formal complaint/feedback to SE off the customer service part of their site. I will be letting my account go inactive when the end of Aug comes. However I will be keeping an eye on things and would like to come back if SE decides to change any of the items that I have issues with.

[Korpg]

I would If i could, yen is calculated different then the usd. If no one is willing to look it up themselves, not my problem. Just proves how much blind rage everyone is having. Here is the thing all point which include a personal attack or insult to me is pretty much invalid.

Once you start acting like a child, your opinion is worth less then the money you pay for to use the internent. There are better ways to go about your dislike. So far now we have ragers vs se appologist wars.
why? Why over something so petty?

Actually Rosina, it goes deeper than that. You can't really explain Japanese banking system without doing extensive research (I did while I was in Japan for 9 months, I had first hand accounts plus translated reports while I was there).

I find that the Japanese Banking system much more secure because of the society and culture in place there. It is hard to break into a bank and steal money in Japan because of the shame it would place on the robbers in question, although some people can get beyond that and still successfully do it. Same as to do scams in a Japanese culture.

Americans don't have the cultural shame placed on individuals as the Japanese do, so they don't see the ethical and moral issues as well as Japanese can. They don't think twice or more when pulling off a scam. So it is easier for an American to rip off people. Which is why banks in America has stronger safeguards than most other countries.

Japan's strongest safeguard is themselves.

That is the basis/brunt of my research, although it goes way beyond that. But I won't bore anyone with the minor or major details.

[Rosina]

ryaan the only reason that you can't by exact money is point systems are calulated by dollor amounts not change. Our account have a .95 cent attachment. where in japan it is prob an even yen amount.

You are not gonna over pay by using crysta. Trust me. I used similar systems befor. Such as 360 microsoft points and i Played mabinogi which uses points. Pretty much you bank points up. with acess. And can use that to pay for your account. Or make adding crysta cheaper for a bit till you run out of banked cysta.

like say your account is just 1 character. That is 12.95. you would round it up to $13. then see what is a decent amount. and you decide on the $30 so you have a few mnths. that is 3000 crysta.
your account isonly 1300 cysta.
1300 x 2 = 2600 -3000 = 400
after said 2 mnths you can justbuy a $10 card for 1000 crysta and still have 100 crysta left over. which you can use to add another character if you wanted to. which then would yup your account to 14.00= 1400 cysta.

It isn't bad having extra crysta

[Rosina]

ko
how does the japanese culture tie in with how they calculate yen?
i be /meh (stumped) But ya I get wat your saying.

the japanese still live by way of having a strong ties to pride.

[Ryaan]

Rosina I would accept that if this was like 10-15 years ago. We live in an age driven by the internet now. Almost everything is done on the internet. There was another post in one of the other forums (can't remember where it was) that stated i understand the preset amounts if I bought the card at a store and went home to use it online but I'm not. I am going to be doing a purchase online with this company to buy the crysta, is it really to much to expect now a days to be able to buy what I want in the exact amount I want. No, I don't believe that is unresonable to expect of a company now a days who will be dealing with their purchases over the internet.

[Knives]

It actually does kind of suck to have extra Crysta when the only thing we Americans can spend Crysta on is Final Fantasy XI. It's like buying a gift-card for 20 bucks, but only using $18 of that money at the check-out counter and being told that you won't be given the remaining $2. Sure, you can save it for the next time, but it's not going to help. You're still going to have to buy another $20 gift card, and then that month you'll instead have $4 left over. You won't be able to actually spend that built-up remaining money until months later.

[Tamoa]

Ok,

1. The Japanese society and culture making their banking system safe, doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.
2. Rosina, your "yen is calculated different than the usd" - I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here. I live in a European country, my currency (and it's not Euro) is calculated different from both yen and USD, what's your point?

Ok, let's say that setting up a way for us all to pay SE directly using credit or debit card, is far too complicated for SE due to <insertreasonhere>.

Then these questions remain:

1. Why pick ClickAndBuy, which has a somewhat shady rep and which some banks will block transactions from. Why not PayPal, which in my personal experience is trustworthy, and which has an A+ rating on BBB according to another post in this thread.

2. Why can't people outside of Japan buy Crysta in exact amounts?

3. Why "fix" the way to pay for this game, to make it WORSE for us? To make it more of a hassle, and in many cases, give us no option but to pay via a 3rd party with a shady rep?

And Rosina, the only one really raging in this thread is you. YOU are the rude one here, saying people have no right to be angry and upset about these changes which they feel are unsafe/unfair/far too much of a hassle just to pay for a game.

You're talking about your mom, and your dad, and your boyfriend - seems quite obvious you don't have a credit/debit card yourself and no real grasp of managing your own money on a tight budget or the importance of internet safety when it comes to giving out your card info.

[Romanova]

Once you start acting like a child, your opinion is worth less then the money you pay for to use the internent.

So...you're saying your opinion is worthless? Gotcha. You've acted like a bigger child (and type like one) than those you are accusing.


Not all of us are so stuck on FFXI that we have played for 8 years straight. I was going to take a break for KoTOR, probably go back to WoW after that, etc. Sooner or later I will probably go back to FFXI, but that could be two years from now when my crysta would have expired. It is not the first time I've taken over a two year break from FFXI, it is not out of the realm of impossibility.

Being forced to play just so I can "even out" is ridiculous. You think that because there's a solution, there's no reason to complain. I say, just because there is a solution, doesn't make that solution a good one by far and people have every right to ask for a better one.

[Rosina]

It actually does kind of suck to have extra Crysta when the only thing we Americans can spend Crysta on is Final Fantasy XI. It's like buying a gift-card for 20 bucks, but only using $18 of that money at the check-out counter and being told that you won't be given the remaining $2. Sure, you can save it for the next time, but it's not going to help. You're still going to have to buy another $20 gift card, and then that month you'll instead have $4 left over. You won't be able to actually spend that built-up remaining money until months later.

actually ffxi ffxiv and adding characters to your account can be bought with crysta.

[Ryaan]

Also another note real quick, how would i not be over paying each month. 12.95 + 3 mules = 15.95

I would have to buy 20$ worth of crysta to be able to play. Now in accounting that would be a surplus of $4.05 paid to the company for the crysta that month. Which according to my books is over paying. Now later down the road that over pay MAY actually fully balance out to ONE month of me not over paying but no matter how you look at it you have to over pay every month to get that one month of NOT overpaying. I personally dont like to have the extra laying around. What if for some odd reason I have to quit next month cause i cant afford to keep doing it for one reason or another. Now thats an extra 4$ now sitting in my account I can't do anything with. To me that is waste and with the economy how it is right now in the states that waste is NOT a good thing for me. Not all of us are as fortunte to be able to just write off 2-4 extra dollars each month to this game. If you can than congrats to you but some of us have other things we need to be able to take care of as well.

[Rosina]

So...you're saying your opinion is worthless? Gotcha. You've acted like a bigger child (and type like one) than those you are accusing.


Not all of us are so stuck on FFXI that we have played for 8 years straight. I was going to take a break for KoTOR, probably go back to WoW after that, etc. Sooner or later I will probably go back to FFXI, but that could be two years from now when my crysta would have expired. It is not the first time I've taken over a two year break from FFXI, it is not out of the realm of impossibility.

Being forced to play just so I can "even out" is ridiculous. You think that because there's a solution, there's no reason to complain. I say, just because there is a solution, doesn't make that solution a good one by far and people have every right to ask for a better one.

sorry but I haven't played this game 8 year straight. And i have yet to actually insult anyone. If anything I stated that i dislike the current attitude of the forum

[RAIST]

Rosina....all of this has already been covered and you have been proven WRONG before you posted your misinformed opinions, both in this thread and others YOU have posted the same misinformation in. Please, for the love of <insert your chosen deity>, READ the freaking information that is out their first.

Here's a perfect example:

You are not gonna over pay by using crysta. Trust me. I used similar systems befor. Such as 360 microsoft points and i Played mabinogi which uses points. Pretty much you bank points up. with acess. And can use that to pay for your account. Or make adding crysta cheaper for a bit till you run out of banked cysta.

like say your account is just 1 character. That is 12.95. you would round it up to $13. then see what is a decent amount. and you decide on the $30 so you have a few mnths. that is 3000 crysta.
your account isonly 1300 cysta.
1300 x 2 = 2600 -3000 = 400
after said 2 mnths you can justbuy a $10 card for 1000 crysta and still have 100 crysta left over. which you can use to add another character if you wanted to. which then would yup your account to 14.00= 1400 cysta.

It isn't bad having extra crysta

I have already broken this down for you before. It takes $1295 USD worth of crysta for it to balance out 100% for a single account with no mules. That is $12.95 USD x 100 biling cycles... 98.6 months, or 8.2 years. If you are using crysta just for FFXI swubscription, you would have to play for at least 8 years before you saw any chance of balancing the cost of adding crysta in comparison to the direct billing option--which by the way is the root of all this discourse, and SE has arbitrarily yanked from 2/3 of it's playerbase (regionally speaking, that is).

Let's also not forget that if you have to resort to buying the cards locally for some reason, you are hit with local taxation and the potentially cost of travelling to get them, or in the worst case scenario you have to order them and pay shipping, and the additional interest you may be charged if you buy them in bulk on a credit it card. All thiss adds up to one simple fact...UNTIL YOU SPEND ENOUGH CRYSTA TO BALANCE OUT YOUR SUBSCRIPTION COSTS 100%, YOU ARE SPENDING MORE $$ PER UNIT OF PLAYTIME WITH CRYSTA VERSUS A DIRECT BILLING OPTION (WHICH, AGAIN HAS BEEN YANKED FROM 2/3 THE REGIONS)

And... here is another reason NOT to use C&B. A snag posted on another forum. Catwho, a US player (1 state away from me, and uses the same bank I do) used C&B and got slapped with a fee from his bank because the new payment method is no longer using a US based bank and is being FORCED to go through an international vendor now:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=5#219


Well, just hit my first snag. My bank charged me an extra 60 cents for buying $20 worth of Crysta via Click and Buy, calling it an international transaction. I had no warning from Click and Buy or from SE that there would be the extra charge.

[Knives]

actually ffxi ffxiv and adding characters to your account can be bought with crysta.

FFXIV still doesn't charge and adding characters to an account is something I intended to already be linked to FFXI in the first place. Not everyone has only one character- plenty have mules. That doesn't change things. This is just arguing semantics. In the end, Crysta is currently a dead-end "currency" being pushed upon American audiences. Being able to buy as much as the customer wants would solve this issue.

Even Xbox Live attempted to change their own point system to try and accommodate the customers in a better way, though it took them years. The point is still the same though- the customers like to be able to control just how many points they are buying, for fear of winding up with waste.

[Rosina]

ok ryanan you are simply not understandthing how crysta is. I can understand the confusion. here is a simple explination cystsa does not calulate in cents.
it is $1 for every 100 crysta. which is why even online you need to pay in dollor amounts. crysta is good for 2 years. can is used to not only pay for accounts but to buy extra characters.

I used to work (currently not working) 4 hours a week, getting around $30-$40 a pay check. Which is why I wanna use crysta, it is easyer for me to just put in enough crysta for a while just in case i may lose my job or do not work one week.

[Rosina]

raist have you ever used a point system befoire to pay for an mmo? if not. then you can't say i'm wrong. :) I'm not new to point system dude so really lay off.

[Tamoa]

ok ryanan you are simply not understandthing how crysta is. I can understand the confusion. here is a simple explination cystsa does not calulate in cents.
it is $1 for every 100 crysta. which is why even online you need to pay in dollor amounts. crysta is good for 2 years. can is used to not only pay for accounts but to buy extra characters.

I used to work (currently not working) 4 hours a week, getting around $30-$40 a pay check. Which is why I wanna use crysta, it is easyer for me to just put in enough crysta for a while just in case i may lose my job or do not work one week.

Bolded part confirming my thoughts.

[Romanova]

And i have yet to actually insult anyone.

That's not the only way to "act like a child"...

You have insanely bad and "childlike" behavior. Simply put, don't dish out and attack people for not reading, when you can't handle people attacking you when you get called out.

And again, who cares if you can ultimately balance it out, it is not a good solution. We want better. As others said this economy it terrible atm, if you think its wise to just waste money even if you currently can afford to do so, then you really are a child who doesn't know how the real world works.

[Ryaan]

ok ryanan you are simply not understandthing how crysta is. I can understand the confusion. here is a simple explination cystsa does not calulate in cents.
it is $1 for every 100 crysta. which is why even online you need to pay in dollor amounts. crysta is good for 2 years. can is used to not only pay for accounts but to buy extra characters.

I used to work (currently not working) 4 hours a week, getting around $30-$40 a pay check. Which is why I wanna use crysta, it is easyer for me to just put in enough crysta for a while just in case i may lose my job or do not work one week.


Ok done with trying to be nice. Rosina are you really just that air headed. I get how it works I also get you have to buy it in preset amounts. I WANT to buy it in exact amounts. I should NOT be forced to buy more than I need for the month. Its a low and underhanded move by a company to do. I would have no issues buying more than needed to play FFXI if I could use the crsysta for more than just Final Fantasy. I bought xbox cards before to get points BUT I could spend those points on more than just ONE game. Really if your going to respond make sure it has some intellegence to it first. If you have no problems using daddies CC to over spend each month than yay for you, but we all dont have that option and some of us have real lives and real bills that the extra money each month just was NOT planed in a budget to play a video game. So YES it is an inconvincen for most of us with a tight budget in this economy. Also NO I should NOT have to add more mules to my account JUST to be able to hit that even amount (if rounded up to the nearest dollar) each month.

[xbobx]

"I used to work (currently not working) 4 hours a week, getting around $30-$40 a pay check. Which is why I wanna use crysta, it is easyer for me to just put in enough crysta for a while just in case i may lose my job or do not work one week."

And if SE decides to shut the servers down you are out all that money you built up in that account. they will not refund it, they will keep it and you are out.

[RAIST]

raist have you ever used a point system befoire to pay for an mmo? if not. then you can't say i'm wrong. :) I'm not new to point system dude so really lay off.

No, you are refusing the math. The numbers don't lie. It's a very simple equation.

Direct pay method: 12.95/30 days for 6 cycles comes to 77.70
How much crysta are you required to purchase to cover the EXACT SAME TIME FRAME?

That's right... $80

now, I ask you....WHICH IS COSTING MORE FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME?

now, let's extend that out for 360 days (almost a year):
Direct pay: 155.40
Crysta pay: 160.00

Well..crap... still not balanced out.

This goes on and on until you have hit 100 billing cycles. Then, and ONLY THEN are the two the same:

Direct pay: $1295.00
Crysta pay: $1295.00

Math....what a concept.

[Korpg]

Ok,

1. The Japanese society and culture making their banking system safe, doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.
2. Rosina, your "yen is calculated different than the usd" - I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here. I live in a European country, my currency (and it's not Euro) is calculated different from both yen and USD, what's your point?

Ok, let's say that setting up a way for us all to pay SE directly using credit or debit card, is far too complicated for SE due to <insertreasonhere>.

You are right, there is a lot more to do with this than what I stated. Which is the point I was trying to make. This is bigger than anyone here, because it has a lot to do with cost structure and methodology of payments outside of Japan.


Then these questions remain:

1. Why pick ClickAndBuy, which has a somewhat shady rep and which some banks will block transactions from. Why not PayPal, which in my personal experience is trustworthy, and which has an A+ rating on BBB according to another post in this thread.

2. Why can't people outside of Japan buy Crysta in exact amounts?

3. Why "fix" the way to pay for this game, to make it WORSE for us? To make it more of a hassle, and in many cases, give us no option but to pay via a 3rd party with a shady rep?

I can not answer any of this, only a SE rep can answer this. If SE wants to release confidential information like this to the public, that is their provocative.

[Korpg]

No, you are refusing the math. The numbers don't lie. It's a very simple equation.

Direct pay method: 12.95/30 days for 6 cycles comes to 77.70
How much crysta are you required to purchase to cover the EXACT SAME TIME FRAME?

That's right... $80

now, I ask you....WHICH IS COSTING MORE FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME?

now, let's extend that out for 360 days (almost a year):
Direct pay: 155.40
Crysta pay: 160.00

Well..crap... still not balanced out.

This goes on and on until you have hit 100 billing cycles. Then, and ONLY THEN are the two the same:

Direct pay: $1295.00
Crysta pay: $1295.00

Math....what a concept.

Crysta doesn't carry over month for month, does it?

Buying 1500 crysta means you pay $15.00, but the extra crysta you spend on this game never carries over to the next month, so you have to spend $15.00 each month now to play this game.....

[Rosina]

/facepalm

why do i bother trying to talk to children.

raist fyi, i was converting accounts fees into crysta.

tbh i honestly do not care anymore rage on, nothing will come of it.

ffxiv player base already pulled this crap. SE not gonna budge.

deal with it or quit. Just stop insulting me over your petty childish ways. Grow a set and be done with it.

[Rosina]

Crysta doesn't carry over month for month, does it?

Buying 1500 crysta means you pay $15.00, but the extra crysta you spend on this game never carries over to the next month, so you have to spend $15.00 each month now to play this game.....

yes it does carry over. You can have up ti 10000 cysta in your bank. which is $100

[Tamoa]

/facepalm

why do i bother trying to talk to children.

raist fyi, i was converting accounts fees into crysta.

tbh i honestly do not care anymore rage on, nothing will come of it.

ffxiv player base already pulled this crap. SE not gonna budge.

deal with it or quit. Just stop insulting me over your petty childish ways. Grow a set and be done with it.

I have to admit this made me laugh.

Grow a set? No, please, you grow up.

[Byrth]

Carries over, but expires after 2 years. Iirc, the cap you can add per month is $100 worth of Crysta (10000 Crysta).

Regardless, if 1 Cent = 1 Crysta (it does), then there's no real reason why they can't let us buy 1295 Crysta for $12.95 and just pay exactly. Shoddy implementation. They have one month to get it right.

[Korpg]

yes it does carry over. You can have up ti 10000 cysta in your bank. which is $100

Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic to RAIST. Unintended victim for the sarcasm.

[Romanova]

Rosina continues to prove they are the real child here lol....

[Korpg]

Carries over, but expires after 2 years. Iirc, the cap you can add per month is $100 worth of Crysta (10000 Crysta).

Regardless, if 1 Cent = 1 Crysta (it does), then there's no real reason why they can't let us buy 1295 Crysta for $12.95 and just pay exactly. Shoddy implementation. They have one month to get it right.

You are correct, the crysta system needs to be fixed.

[RAIST]

/facepalm

why do i bother trying to talk to children.

raist fyi, i was converting accounts fees into crysta.

tbh i honestly do not care anymore rage on, nothing will come of it.

ffxiv player base already pulled this crap. SE not gonna budge.

deal with it or quit. Just stop insulting me over your petty childish ways. Grow a set and be done with it.

And where was I not converting account fees to crysta? you can only buy crysta in $5 amounts.... maybe you need some sort of visual so you can see it, because the math is confusing you?

Cumulative Direct Pay $ spent per cycle: 12.95 $25.90 $38.85 $51.80 $64.75 $77.70
Cumulative $ spent on Crysta per cycle : 15.00 $30.00 $40.00 $55.00 $65.00 $80.00

This continues to be out of whack until the 100th billing cycle.

Again... I ask.. which line is costing you more money up front per billing cycle?

Now, whatch how bad it gets if I buy game cards across the street because of the 6% tax:

Cumulative $ spent on Crysta per cycle: 15.90 31.40 42.00 57.90 68.50 84.40

After just 6 cycles, that's $84.40 vs 77.70. At that rate, after 100 cycles, using locally bought game cards would have cost me 1372.20 instead of 1295.00.

Again.... which method is costing me more money along the way? Which method would the average consumer prefer to optimize their debt/income ratio? THE OPTION THAT JUST GOT GANKED FROM 2/3 OF US!

[RAIST]

Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic to RAIST. Unintended victim for the sarcasm.

never claimed the crysta didn't carry over. note that I was calculating cumulative crysta in the minumum $5 amounts you can purchase.

[Korpg]

And where was I not converting account fees to crysta? you can only buy crysta in $5 amounts.... maybe you need some sort of visual so you can see it, because the math is confusing you?

Cumulative Direct Pay $ spent per cycle: 12.95 $25.90 $38.85 $51.80 $64.75 $77.70
Cumulative $ spent on Crysta per cycle : 15.00 $30.00 $40.00 $55.00 $65.00 $80.00

This continues to be out of whack until the 100th billing cycle.

Again... I ask.. which line is costing you more money up front per billing cycle?

Now, whatch how bad it gets if I buy game cards across the street because of the 6% tax:

Cumulative $ spent on Crysta per cycle: 15.90 31.40 42.00 57.90 68.50 84.40

After just 6 cycles, that's $84.40 vs 77.70. At that rate, after 100 cycles, using locally bought game cards would have cost me 1372.20 instead of 1295.00.

Again.... which method is costing me more money along the way? Which method would the average consumer prefer to optimize their debt/income ratio? THE OPTION THAT JUST GOT GANKED FROM 2/3 OF US!

Here you go, something just for you (http://www.credit.com/products/credit_cards/debit.jsp)

[RAIST]

That is pointless

show me where the math is wrong.

Show me how they cannot process direct payments like they've been doing.

All the pieces are in place within their business structure. If not...they would not have been taking payments through POL, and they would have to shut down their online store's credit card option for all but the JP region as well....which they have NOT done. As I've stated before, I used to set this crap up for companies on a previous job. The majority of what they are doing for the JP pages can be moved over to the other regional pages, and the rest of the code is provided by the vendors they already have contracts with for processing credit cards in the other regions.

They CAN do it. They are simply choosing not to.

[Korpg]

That is pointless

show me where the math is wrong.

Show me how they cannot process direct payments like they've been doing.

All the pieces are in place within their business structure. If not...they would not have been taking payments through POL, and they would have to shut down their online store's credit card option for all but the JP region as well....which they have NOT done. As I've stated before, I used to set this crap up for companies on a previous job. The majority of what they are doing for the JP pages can be moved over to the other regional pages, and the rest of the code is provided by the vendors they already have contracts with for processing credit cards in the other regions.

They CAN do it. They are simply choosing not to.

I can not justify why they are doing this, I don't know why you expect me to do so. They are doing this, and you want a method of paying for a subscription without any extra fees or holding over crysta each month. I gave you that, and you still want something else. Is there no pleasing you?

Also, I never said anything about your math being wrong.

[Azagthoth]

Quite simply, SE could remedy the situation if they continued to offer a direct payment option for 3-D secure cards and offered the other payment options for people without the proper cards; I thought this was their original intent when I first read about the transfer process.

[xbobx]

Korpg when the fix is very easy and they don't do the fix that is the real issue. I don't mind buying crysta, I also don't mind paying over, but there is no reason for paying over. It maybe a dollar here and there but at some point you have to put your foot down. Principles matter even if it is a small cost, don't you agree?

I see a lot of people complaining about things in the wrong way. The problem is simple, the fix is simple, so just fix it.

[RAIST]

I can not justify why they are doing this, I don't know why you expect me to do so. They are doing this, and you want a method of paying for a subscription without any extra fees or holding over crysta each month. I gave you that, and you still want something else. Is there no pleasing you?

Also, I never said anything about your math being wrong.

Guess you haven't been reading my posts in all the other threads you've posted in. what I want is regional equality--for them to extend the direct pay method to the rest of us just like they've done for the JP region.

And the debate you jumped into here with me was over the comparison between (imagine this) the DIRECT PAY option VS CRYSTA as it currently stands--trying to show how the DIRECT PAY option is the better option, and how there is no justification for it being denied to 2/3 of the players (regionally speaking).

[Twille]

Principles matter even if it is a small cost, don't you agree?

This is my exact view on the situation. This is also why i'll be quitting (sadly) at the end of August. I don't let any company push me around.

[Korpg]

Korpg when the fix is very easy and they don't do the fix that is the real issue. I don't mind buying crysta, I also don't mind paying over, but there is no reason for paying over. It maybe a dollar here and there but at some point you have to put your foot down. Principles matter even if it is a small cost, don't you agree?

I see a lot of people complaining about things in the wrong way. The problem is simple, the fix is simple, so just fix it.

There must be a reason why they are doing this payment plan this way. It might be to save money, it might be to simplify both games's payment plans, we just don't know. But it is going to happen, regardless of anything we can do.

[Korpg]

Guess you haven't been reading my posts in all the other threads you've posted in. what I want is regional equality--for them to extend the direct pay method to the rest of us just like they've done for the JP region.

And the debate you jumped into here with me was over the comparison between (imagine this) the DIRECT PAY option VS CRYSTA as it currently stands--trying to show how the DIRECT PAY option is the better option, and how there is no justification for it being denied to 2/3 of the players (regionally speaking).

You are asking for regional equality from a culture notorious for their racism? Good luck with that.

[RAIST]

Quite simply, SE could remedy the situation if they continued to offer a direct payment option for 3-D secure cards and offered the other payment options for people without the proper cards; I thought this was their original intent when I first read about the transfer process.

you're not alone... I think most everyone got mislead, hence the outcry over it only being extended to the JP region.

[Horadrim]

This whole problem seems like it would be resolved if SE reduced the monthly cost down to 9.99... Then you could just buy 10 bucks worth of Crysta and be done with it.

[RAIST]

You are asking for regional equality from a culture notorious for their racism? Good luck with that.

SE has always professed to strive for regional and platform balance and their skew toward the JP region has been more cleverly masked in the past... but this is just right out there slapping everyone in the face and pissing on open wounds.

[RAIST]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090


Greetings all,

We wanted to take a moment to let you know that we are aware of the comments and discussions taking place regarding the new payment procedures not only on the official forum, but on the community sites, as well.

While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we do want to inform you that improving the payment processing options are still a part of an ongoing process. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.


so.....I guess all this "rage" has gotten their attention after all, eh?

And now.... we wait. Will they get a fix in place before the exodus?

[xbobx]

There must be a reason why they are doing this payment plan this way. It might be to save money, it might be to simplify both games's payment plans, we just don't know. But it is going to happen, regardless of anything we can do.

I honestly think it is a move towards micro-transactions and ff14 going free to play format with purchasable items. That could carry over. For a dieing game it could help bring more revenue in then just counting on sub fees. It also allows new players to come in , buy some items to help get them a head and up to 90 fast so they can take part with everyone else. Who knows.
No matter what the reason, the fix is easy with little cost considering they may lose money on this move as it is. Any management team with any brains would just tell their IT dept to make the change.

[Korpg]

SE has always professed to strive for regional and platform balance and their skew toward the JP region has been more cleverly masked in the past... but this is just right out there slapping everyone in the face and pissing on open wounds.

If you feel that way, and I mean honestly feel that way, then I'm sorry for you.

I think that they allow 3D Secure payments for their JP customers is because that is a payment system they are most familiar with. It could also be the one that they get for free, because you think that the 3D Secure system is free to companies? SE already is part of a major corporation in JP, and most, if not all corporations have banks, so they can bypass the 3D secure fee from their bank (charging yourself is silly). Why pass up a free service?

[Korpg]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090
so.....I guess all this "rage" has gotten their attention after all, eh?

And now.... we wait. Will they get a fix in place before the exodus?

Squeeky wheel gets the grease.

[RAIST]

If you feel that way, and I mean honestly feel that way, then I'm sorry for you.

I think that they allow 3D Secure payments for their JP customers is because that is a payment system they are most familiar with. It could also be the one that they get for free, because you think that the 3D Secure system is free to companies? SE already is part of a major corporation in JP, and most, if not all corporations have banks, so they can bypass the 3D secure fee from their bank (charging yourself is silly). Why pass up a free service?

3DS is a feature of the processing system, not a system in and of itself. Sometimes you have to sign up for it yourself through the bank that issues your card--some come with it by default (mine do). It is basically an extra tier in the authentication protocols--kind of like a secret password in addition to the authentication pair. Hence the "3D"--3 components have to match up instead of just the normal to.

Jsecure is on the JCB card accounts and built into their processing by default if I remember right, and a large protion of the bigger processors (especially ones dealing with e-commerce) use it also. So, I seriously doubt SE is paying anything extra to specifically use it. It never even came up when we were dealing with processors, and they deal primarily in ecommerce. It may well be the norm to have the option to enable/disable it in the generic scripts so it's easy for them to rolll out the code to different users depending if they will be doing e-commerce or not. We were dealing with government and e-tail front-ends, so likely OPC and Cybersource just had it all turned on by default.

[Rezeak]

@OP rather than attack ur fellow players, why not present it as a how to guide or w/e would be alot better than calling people idiots.

Either way defend it as much as you like what SE is maybe a step forward but u only need to look at other MMOs to see how it's really done.

For example to most mmos u need only an account and to type ya payment info in (paypal,CC,Game card) and ya read to go.

FFXI u need to register with a 3rd party and Squarenix and playonline to pay for crysta which u then use to pay for ffxi

I do miss the days when companys just took your money lol.

Either way FFXI has had a fail payment system since it started for example restart the game on the last of the month and boom 12.95 for 1 day .... lol

[Niyariko]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090



so.....I guess all this "rage" has gotten their attention after all, eh?

And now.... we wait. Will they get a fix in place before the exodus?


And SE better get the direct CC payment option available before Aug 31 or they will see a lot of deactivated accounts.

[Malacite]

Took them long enough to respond.


Well, here's hoping we get either exact crysta amounts, direct registration with SE or Paypal. This is an entirely self-inflicted and unwarranted problem on SE's end. And on that note, I can not help but wonder just what is with all the dick riding some of you are doing.

I've had the game since 03' and it's easily one of my favorites of all time. I don't want to quit, but I just might depending on how things go from here with the coming "adjustments". And if I do leave, well, at least it was fun. But if you're life is so sad that you have to cling to this game even in the face of blatant corporate abuse, then you have far larger issues at hand.

I just hope they enact some form of a refund policy if they allow direct billing for us but don't also reform the crysta option. I want my $4 back SE, as a matter of principal.

[Darkwizardzin]

......................................I just hope that whatever SE plans for this... the playerbase won't rage at whatever they come up with (they made this change for a reason so I don't think they can just do a 180 on it...). More likly then not they will make a comprize with the system that will make it better then it is now...but still have a small downside.

[Modoru]

......................................I just hope that whatever SE plans for this... the playerbase won't rage at whatever they come up with (they made this change for a reason so I don't think they can just do a 180 on it...). More likly then not they will make a comprize with the system that will make it better then it is now...but still have a small downside.

Compromise, you mean? I sincerely hope they do obtain [or think up] a different way of working though a payment, because otherwise, I'm pretty sure most of Puerto Rico will not be available to play unless the sites allow us to, and I'm not too familiar with them.

In relation to the thread starter, I only want to say one thing: If you're going to start a thread commenting on people's attitudes, you need to evaluate your own. You must understand that people aren't just "being adverse to change", they're just being forced out of a reliable [as much as it could be, you know?], timely system; into a new and very counter-intuitive system that simply makes things harder on the player. Once you understand that, don't dismiss every opinion as "raging", "whining" or "crying", and appreciate a different opinion -- don't tell people that they're "wrong" just because YOU disagree with them.

That's all I have to say, until further development shows up.

[Rosina]

@OP rather than attack ur fellow players, why not present it as a how to guide or w/e would be alot better than calling people idiots.

Either way defend it as much as you like what SE is maybe a step forward but u only need to look at other MMOs to see how it's really done.

For example to most mmos u need only an account and to type ya payment info in (paypal,CC,Game card) and ya read to go.

FFXI u need to register with a 3rd party and Squarenix and playonline to pay for crysta which u then use to pay for ffxi

I do miss the days when companys just took your money lol.

Either way FFXI has had a fail payment system since it started for example restart the game on the last of the month and boom 12.95 for 1 day .... lol

i play ffxiv aswell, and honestly like I keep saying, I'm no stranger to what is going on. ffxiv had similar if not twin rage about the same thing. I'm not out to attack, but I've been insult for no reason. Might wanna read the thread more. And the tags.

[Rosina]

to everyone
i'm no stranger to mmos
i'm no stranger to SE fusdging stuff up
i'm no stranger to having to jump through hoops to get payments out
i'm not attack anyone
I'm not defending SE

What I am doing is trying to get ppl to understand, the way your handling this is uncalled for. You guys are being childish. Name calling people because you can't control what SE does? Seriously?

I've only been calling out the behavoir.

Hrere is some food for though about other mmo. Most are not set up how SE is. Most mmo are region based and you pay the regions affiliate (sp?) which goes to the company. Like WoW as an example. NA players pay NA blizzard, while EU players pay EU blizzard.
We all just pay SE who is in japan.
I already set up a ffxiv account and picked my payment method. I just gotta wait till I can tranfer mine since I just re activated a this mnth.

So please do not act like I am new to mmo or SE or this payment. Because I'm not.

Just do not insult or name call others because your angry at a company.

[RAIST]

let he who has not sinned......

YOU were the first one to start insulting the posters in your own thread...at post #4.

And before you go back and edit that so they can't see the errors of your ways, I'll quote it in mine:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12185-in-light-of-all-the-payment-raging-((-must-read-))?p=156431&viewfull=1#post156431

the only utter garbage is the Forum community over stuck astupid reason. Grow a set and learn to deal. There is no use to rage, all you guys are doung is fearing change. Instead of trying it out. Time cards/ point cards are much safer and easier to use. just get a $20 every 2 mnths. No harm or foul. just learn to use them to your advantage,

no one was ever fearing change btw...it is,was, and continues to be about how they are screwing over 2/3 of the world with this move.

Any more disinformation you'd like to spread?

[Revanchist]

Rosina, in the short time since I've registered here, you've made your stance quite well known regarding this payment matter and have stated that you are using the Crysta method as payment. That's your choice and I'm fine with it. However (and I'm trying not to rude or offensive here) calling out other posters like you have, doesn't really make you a good person on the forum. True there are the two options SE has made available, and that's fine... IF you can access either of them.

As I've said in my posts in the other thread about this, crysta and game cards (the two methods SE are using for Non Japanese gamers) aren't available in every country. Crysta hasn't even been legally accepted as a viable payment option in all countries either.... so one wonders why SE decided to go through with this payment option before enabling that crysta is accepted and that gamers all round the world can utilize it.

I honestly hope SE can expand the Direct Debit payment option from Japan to the rest of the world, as that would make the game easier to pay for those without access to Crysta or the gamer cards.

Not to nitpick either... but you say that we all pay SE which is in Japan. That's true, but as with Blizzard, are we not paying the funds directly to SE's regional representatives? Players in NA to SE US. EU (PAL Territories) to Square EU? At least that's what I thought...