Formal petition: Change the billing method or lose your playerbase.

[Dauntless]

The other thread is muddled with (justifiably) enraged players, so in order to clear it up for representatives this is the essence of what we want.

Here are the options.

1. Revert to the old billing method. This would be the thing that the most players want.

2. Allow us to buy crysta in the exact amount that will pay for one month. Once we buy this, give us the option to do this automatically monthly. Otherwise, this method is still incredibly inconvenient.

3. Scrap your relationship with the obviously shady Click n Buy, and use a more trusted and reliable business such as Paypal.

Until this is fixed, you have lost two subscribers on my end.

[sruon]

somuchmad.

[Rosina]

or just set up account with ultimate pay and use paypal to buy crysta. Learn to read and do research so much rage over lack of research.

[Seha]

He explained in point 2 why that is a bad option.

[Rosina]

He explained in point 2 why that is a bad option.

read the hole thing before commenting. I also set up my own thread instead of trying to post the same stuff. SE doesn't control ultimate pay. But really that shouldn't be an issue just get a $20 card >.>

When i payed for my ffxi account through my dads debit card I always kept 3 mnths worth on the debit card. And this was when I was working part time at block buster for 4 hours a week. >.>

[Kraggy]

or just set up account with ultimate pay
What account? I've bought Crysta three times, I don't have any account with them.

[Rosina]

honestly all this senceless whining is gonna ruin this forum. DO RESEARCH INSTEAD OF RAGING.

go wuth the option you can do no mmo sells time card for 1 mnth. they all do 60 day or higher. Or from points sell it in various incramants you can stock pile points to not have to buy them a;ll the time. It isn't a bad deal. I play 360 and played f2p games and bought points for them. And this was again working part time at crap jobs. If i can do this anyone working full time with bills can do this.

[Rosina]

What account? I've bought Crysta three times, I don't have any account with them.

i plan on using the cards :) that is also an opyion.

But there is away to set up a credit card option from SE website. I accidently did it for 14 XD which is how I know it is possible.

[Malamasala]

When i payed for my ffxi account through my dads debit card I always kept 3 mnths worth on the debit card. And this was when I was working part time at block buster for 4 hours a week. >.>

But you didn't put 3.3 months worth on SE's card. Which seems to be the crysta system. I'm perfectly fine with using Paypal, but I don't want to overpay them and give them money just because they decided to go on a worse system.

If SE wants to "hold" my money, they better start giving me interest. 10% increase on crysta each month could make me consider putting more than the monthly fee in it. Since I'd actually be gaining money instead of losing money.

[Ilax]

But you didn't put 3.3 months worth on SE's card. Which seems to be the crysta system. I'm perfectly fine with using Paypal, but I don't want to overpay them and give them money just because they decided to go on a worse system.

If SE wants to "hold" my money, they better start giving me interest. 10% increase on crysta each month could make me consider putting more than the monthly fee in it. Since I'd actually be gaining money instead of losing money.

First is 5$ max, second you not loosing the 500 crysta, and the next month is only 10$ instead 15$, why so many people complain about a detail like that.

12.95$ -> Buy 5$ then 10$ = 15$ then wow you have a big 200 crysta left in your account, jeez is not the end of world.

Maybe you should cancel your Credit card, register a paypal account that charge 0 monthly fee and save the 5$ every month that Visa charge you? Idk people over reacting in both thread about it.

[Aver]

First is 5$ max, second you not loosing the 500 crysta, and the next month is only 10$ instead 15$, why so many people complain about a detail like that.

12.95$ -> Buy 5$ then 10$ = 15$ then wow you have a big 200 crysta left in your account, jeez is not the end of world.

Maybe you should cancel your Credit card, register a paypal account that charge 0 monthly fee and save the 5$ every month that Visa charge you? Idk people over reacting in both thread about it.

Sup, maybe you don't care about wasting money, but the vast majority of people who work for a living do.

Also, nobody, not even Ms. Cleo, knows what the future holds for them. Financial burden, ragequit, banning, getting tired, growing up - what are you gonna do with the excess virtual currency you have on your account that you cannot get refunded as it is (and if you'll read the fine print provided by square you'll see) unrefundable?

Cancel your credit card? Surely you jest. Try doing anything as an adult with some form of good credit.

This bend over and take it mentality hurts me head.

[Ilax]

Sup, maybe you don't care about wasting money

Why say i waste money?, if after 9yr of playing FFXI i loose a big 5$, trust me i wont complain. If i was that tight, i wont play this game.

and please note you only *waste* that extra "crysta" if you quit.. Do i play planing to quit? no way, if was the case i wont play at all, do i realize someday i might loose 5$, ya ok, i can take my car today and have accident that will cost me 1,000x more. Seriously idk why people still hurt they head with this detail. 5$ max..

[Seha]

Rosina...sigh, nevermind, I give up.

[Niyariko]

Do we really need another thread to complain on the same issue?

[Aver]

Once again, it's not just you.

Step back and look 6 inches past your nose. What suits you may not (read: probably doesn't) suit Jack, Jane, Billy, Timmy, or Samantha over there.

And a waste of money is a waste of money. Ima [self-censored]-out and say that even an extra penny of my money given to SE, that didn't need to be given to SE is a waste. Especially if I decide to up and quit tomorrow, or three months from now, with crysta on my account (c wut i did thur?)

[Kraggy]

This bend over and take it mentality hurts me head.
Well, that's one way of saying you're talking out your ....

[Aver]

Well, that's one way of saying you're talking out your ....

I don't think that means what you think it means, my good fellow.

[Kraggy]

I know you didn't intend it to mean that, but it did accurately describe what you were doing.

[Aver]

I know you didn't intend it to mean that, but it did accurately describe what you were doing.

How, pre-tell, would I be talking out of my ass for calling people out on being sheep, which is exactly what they are doing? Lol.

Not saying rage rage fight the power, but good god. See a flawed system as flawed and demand a fix, not throw your hands up and say oh well, here's my money, and thanks for making me jump through hoops to give it to you! May I have some more? Please?

[Kraggy]

It was this comment of yours I was referring to


And a waste of money is a waste of money.

There is no 'waste' worth speaking of.

[Aver]

There is very much a waste, if it ends up as a remainder on an inactive account. It's also a very easy fix that the JP community already has access to. I don't mind buying crysta (my thoughts on real currency for virtual currency notwithstanding) if and only if we are allowed to buy exact amounts.

There is no legitimate reason for us not to be.

[Hoshi]

I don't mind buying crysta IF I could buy it directly from SE. I do NOT want to give paypal my information and I have avoided having to do that for years. I will not use click and buy either, not keen on their rep. Which is to say it looks like I either have to give my bank information to paypal or quit the game. I'm not sure FFXI is worth jeopardizing my financial information by sharing it with paypal.

[Romanova]

But there is away to set up a credit card option from SE website. I accidently did it for 14 XD which is how I know it is possible.

prove it, or stop spreading lies.

[Aver]

prove it, or stop spreading lies.

They can't, because there isn't.

Again, unless you're JP.

[Romanova]

They can't, because there isn't.

Again, unless you're JP.

ya I know, just tired of them spamming this statement without anything to back it up.

Really they were probably still using there daddy's CC card for that too and registered for C&B and forgot about it.

[Malamasala]

Why say i waste money?, if after 9yr of playing FFXI i loose a big 5$, trust me i wont complain. If i was that tight, i wont play this game.

Well, quitting might make you lose 5 dollars as a person, but SE when they shut down servers would get about 2 million dollars in leftover cash that they'll just put in their pockets and say "Thanks, suckers!"

Not to mention this initial payment when everyone pays for a couple of months will make it seem like SE as a company is doing good, and give a fake stock raise on the market. So not only are they attempting to fool their customers, they want to fool investors as well.

And yet the solution is so simple. Let people pay the amount they are charged for. Doing that will make you seem like a good company, and not some loan shark company that is out after stealing money.

[Panthera]

The fact is, we actually want to give Square-Enix our money. We want to give it directly to them, right into their hot little hands. Refusing people's money is just not a sane business strategy.

Some might not much care for the Chrysta system because they don't want to have to overpay. One of the attractions of this game is that it has merit as inexpensive entertainment; you get more than your money's worth, really. Overpaying for Chrysta betrays that merit, and makes an old game less attractive. It's about the principle, and we have our pride. On that note, there is Clickandbuy's fee. While small, we did not have to pay this earlier, and again, we run into the problem of principles, particularly paying a fee to a third party with bad customer service. As consumers, if we have a problem with billing, we're put in the middle, with SE and Clickandbuy pointing fingers at each other, and at the paying customer. At the very least, adding a $1.00 amount of Chrysta would fix the problem, issues with Clickandbuy not withstanding. A Paypal option might work for some customers, as opposed to Clickandbuy.

Some don't want Chrysta because it's a hassle, like paying bills every month or so, instead of just having taken directly out of your account like it always has been. Yes, this is an option via Clickandbuy, but they have an "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau (they are not a member of the BBB) and negative customer reviews abound about them. Considering what happened to Sony's customers, I for one, am not about to give my credit card number to a company that isn't even second rate.

Part of it is that the American playerbase feels as if we aren't being treated as equals as customers to our Japanese counterparts. Is our business not as valuable?

Lastly, paying in advance when FFXI's future is uncertain is an issue all of its own, which I detail here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12162-Will-there-be-a-mini-expansion-or-a-full-expansion-and-why-it-matters-right-now.)

In short, we don't want to overpay. We don't trust Clickandbuy--or that other no-name company. We don't want to be treated like second rate customers, and we don't have to be VIPs either. We just want the same treatment.

We want to give Square-Enix our money! Is Square-Enix really telling us,"We don't want your money?" That, to a customer, is insulting.

[Dauntless]

Do we really need another thread to complain on the same issue?

The other one shows the outrage of the community but doesn't make any clear demands for the reps.

If they value their players whatsoever, this thread outlines what we want clearly.

Simple.

[Korpg]

...why is my name in the tag line?

[Kojo]

...why is my name in the tag line?

Because u mad.

Also, down with Clickandbuy. Paypal is more trustworthy.

[Meyi]

Learn to read

No, you.

I sign this thread. Bring back direct pay.

[Sp1cyryan]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=156804&posted=1#post156804

[Korpg]

Because u mad.

Also, down with Clickandbuy. Paypal is more trustworthy.

How can I be mad if I didn't even click on this thread beforehand? Got to love the trolls putting tags all over the place with my name on it though.

[Meyi]

I guess Starcade is getting his wish of purging the game after all. oAo!

[Kojo]

How can I be mad if I didn't even click on this thread beforehand? Got to love the trolls putting tags all over the place with my name on it though.

You gotta admit, Korpy, you provoke alot of attention.

[Sp1cyryan]

You gotta admit, Korpy, you provoke alot of attention.

Just go away Kojo, you are no better than he is, and neither am I. I like to think we all know each other a little better than this.
As much as I have no problem with threads derailing and people being dorks (for inability to use a more befitting word) I would like this one to stay serious. There is a first time for everything I guess.

[Alukat]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

[Kojo]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

This one is probably the better one, the other is full of rage.

[Sp1cyryan]

This one is probably the better one, the other is full of rage.

They are all filled with rage because it is a topic that needlessly hassles and upsets clients.

[Korpg]

They are all filled with rage because it is a topic that needlessly hassles and upsets clients.

I'm not sure it upsets clients though, but it is a hassle to do once.

[Alukat]

This one is probably the better one, the other is full of rage.

and why should it be rage free?

i'll give u an example what happens to rage free petitions.

we have much temporary work here in germany.
our temporary workers get 50% of the wage an employee directly in the company gets.
they started a petition and got much more subscribers as neccessary to make it become a decission by our folk.
this petition should have lead to a decission by our folk but all that happened was, that the government totally ignored it.

Edit: true story!

so screw rageless petitions!

[Kojo]

and why should it be rage free?

i'll give u an example what happens to rage free petitions.

we have much temporary work here in germany.
our temporary workers get 50% of the wage an employee directly in the company gets.
they started a petition and got much more subscribers as neccessary to make it become a decission by our folk.
this petition should have lead to a decission by our folk but all that happened was, that the government totally ignored it.

Edit: true story!

so screw rageless petitions!

Google Thich Quang Duc. No rage there.

[Alukat]

Google Thich Quang Duc. No rage there.

he set hisself on fire >.>

[Kojo]

he set hisself on fire >.>

Yeah, it worked for him, maybe we should support this one because the initial post has, y'know, requests? Demands? How ever you want to put it it throws ideas out there, the other one simply lets them know we're mad.

[Sp1cyryan]

he set hisself on fire >.>

I can't set my character on fire as a method of deletion in protest of SE never seeming to care about us the way they should. =/

Quick someone make a thread requesting that feature.

[Kojo]

I can't set my character on fire as a method of deletion in protest of SE never seeming to care about us the way they should. =/

Quick someone make a thread requesting that feature.

This actually made me laugh.. I'm not sure where I was going with the Monk, I lost my train of thought soon after posting it. The rest of my last post still stands as my point.

[Sp1cyryan]

This actually made me laugh.. I'm not sure where I was going with the Monk, I lost my train of thought soon after posting it. The rest of my last post still stands as my point.

What makes me laugh is how there is extensive outrage about this on BG, the official forums, and Zam, but not on AH.com. All the people who would have shouted about it were banned or stopped posting from the way the new ship sails over there :P

Good thing SE doesn't really recognize AH.com

[Kojo]

What makes me laugh is how there is extensive outrage about this on BG, the official forums, and Zam, but not on AH.com. All the people who would have shouted about it were banned or stopped posting from the way the new ship sails over there :P

Good thing SE doesn't really recognize AH.com

I was never banned at AH. I just don't really use their forums because I didn't think that much had changed.

[Sp1cyryan]

I was never banned at AH. I just don't really use their forums because I didn't think that much had changed.

Never said you were banned.

[Kojo]

Never said you were banned.

Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

[Romanova]

Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

we have a rep with an account over at BG that reads it. Ontop of BG being a premier site for ff14 (don't ask, I don't even know).

[Babygyrl]

or just set up account with ultimate pay and use paypal to buy crysta. Learn to read and do research so much rage over lack of research.

Gosh you make me angry! Wake up!! do you NOT realize the main reason why people are are so upset with this? its because We SHOULD NOT need to go through a 3rd party vendor(clickandbuy.com) or 3rd party "items" (ie crysta)to Pay for this game! Square is supposedly a multimillion dollar company, they should be able to afford to do there own direct billing and do it to the convenience of the customer, none of this "work around" nonsense to pay... Anyone Who does or has worked in customer service should know that customers REQUIRE convenience, simplicity, not go through annoyance to enjoy/purchase a product! That takes half the enjoyment out of it, Period!

[Sp1cyryan]

Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

Zam is on the premier sites list, and SE has talked about BG before, but I cant quote what they have said off the top of my head.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Square is supposedly a multimillion dollar company, they should be able to afford

Final Fantasy XIV. Cash. Hemorrhaging.

Great Recession. Nobody is buying anything, ever, anywhere.

Oh, and a nuclear earthquake, that didn't help much either.

A million gross isn't the same as a million net.

[Romanova]

Final Fantasy XIV. Cash. Hemorrhaging.

Great Recession. Nobody is buying anything, ever, anywhere.

Oh, and a nuclear earthquake, that didn't help much either.

A million gross isn't the same as a million net.


while that's true, it doesn't exactly make sense that when they have a product that's been giving them a steady stream of money, it's not exactly smart to piss of those customers.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

it's not exactly smart to piss of those customers.

And if they can't afford not to?

[Sparthos]

And if they can't afford not to?

Said this in the other thread: Simply allow people to buy even amounts of crysta then. Not 15 because its the closest thing to the monthly fee.

[Sp1cyryan]

And if they can't afford not to?

Then it is their problem, not ours. Besides the notion should be completely disregarded for such speculation.

Hurting your income because you can't afford to do anything else is not our problem and if they do not change this I hope their income is severely hurt as they really merited it.

SE must be going to abyssea because they are working hard on capping their "annoy customers and possibly lose them due to idiocy" in their "others" option for merits.

[Knives]

Square, I want to play your game. Why don't you want me to play your game? You might say you want me to play your game, but your actions always say otherwise!

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Said this in the other thread: Simply allow people to buy even amounts of crysta then. Not 15 because its the closest thing to the monthly fee.

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

You can argue for a different trade-off, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, not in this economy.


Hurting your income because you can't afford to do anything else is not our problem

It is not your problem only if you have absolutely no interest in if they're able to maintain FFXI. Whatever Square-Enix's obligations may or may not be, they do not include operating FFXI at a loss for your sake.

[Sparthos]

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

Uh, wut? This has nothing to do with a price increase on FFXI.

Crysta on the JP client is able to be bought in exact amounts which reduces waste. If I have one character active, im looking at 15/month anyway because that's as close to 12.95 as you can get.

While SE may have had to change 3rd party billers for financial reasons, there is no reason why one group of individuals can buy the exact amount of crysta to pay for XI while the others have to play overshoot which translates to free money for SE.

What the current system shapes up to be is a ploy where SE scoops up leftover cash across all the accounts active. Two dollars here and there adds up to alot and Square is counting on that.

For gamecards you buy in stores I can see set amounts (5, 10, 20, 50, 100) but for online purchases? Cmon SE, really?

[Babygyrl]

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

You can argue for a different trade-off, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, not in this economy.



It is not your problem only if you have absolutely no interest in if they're able to maintain FFXI. Whatever Square-Enix's obligations may or may not be, they do not include operating FFXI at a loss for your sake.

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

[Tsukino_Kaji]

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to paySame.

Superfluous text.

[Ilax]

Well, quitting might make you lose 5 dollars as a person, but SE when they shut down servers would get about 2 million dollars in leftover cash that they'll just put in their pockets and say "Thanks, suckers!"

Not to mention this initial payment when everyone pays for a couple of months will make it seem like SE as a company is doing good, and give a fake stock raise on the market. So not only are they attempting to fool their customers, they want to fool investors as well.

And yet the solution is so simple. Let people pay the amount they are charged for. Doing that will make you seem like a good company, and not some loan shark company that is out after stealing money.



3.2 Termination.

(a) Your PlayOnline user account and any rights you may have under this Agreement (including those you may have under any other agreement related to your use of PlayOnline) will immediately and automatically terminate upon your breach of any provision of this Agreement, including (without limitation) your violation of any Rule.
(b) You may terminate this Agreement at any time by canceling your PlayOnline user account and by ceasing all use of PlayOnline and all related services. If your PlayOnline user account is terminated by SEI for any reason, you will not be able to reactivate the terminated user account again.
(c) SEI reserves the right to terminate PlayOnline Service in whole or in part for any reason with or without prior notice.
(d) SEI MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY PLAYONLINE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME, WITH ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.


Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

[RAIST]

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

The thing is, you effectivelyt ARE getting a rate hike. Haven't run all the numbers, but no matter what, you will be paying an extra 1/6 billing cycle per year now (365 days/30 days vs 12 months at once per month).

If after this change, you are no longer able ot pay with your local currency, you may be subject to a currency exchange fee (5.9% for C&B, or whatever your financial institution of choice may charge).

If you elect to do it through Crysta...it takes 100 cycles at $12.95 to hit a flat multiple of $5---totaling $1295 over about 8.219 years, or 98.63 months--which on the original once per month scheme would total $1277.26 in fees. So, during those 2 years, you will be paying slightly more per minute to play in comparison to what you are currently paying.

No matter how you run the numbers, you will potentially be paying more per unit for the same amount of play time if you maintain your active status 24/7/365. SE gets more money in both the short term from crysta users, and in the long term from those who maintain their accounts full time.

Also...if you opt to use the game cards you have to pay your local taxes on your purchase, which for me would be a 6% increase in cost directly to me. Not to mention the added expense of traveling to a local store if one isn't close enough for you to walk to ( I have a CVS and a Walgreen's across the street, so I may luck out on that front).

But aside from all that... the simple fact remains that for 2/3 of the games regions are having one payment option that would make almost ALL of the complaints go away completely scrapped with no justification for doing so. The GUI, Scripting, Payment processor (which IS a third party contract btw, SE is NOT the Credit Card clearing house, these go through a specific company that charges set rates for processing the cards)--all of this already set up and being used for the JP clients EXCLUSIVELY so the only thing effectively affecting JP regional users is the more frequent billing of once every 30 days instead of once a month.

Everyone else is being forced to restructure their payment options for no reason. Our current methods COULD be maintained and the Click&Buy, UltimatePay, and Crysta options could have all been fully implemented in parallel--JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING FOR THE JP REGION.

THAT is the big issue.

As such....my accounts will time out when they turn off the switch on this, as I am not transferring until either they remedy this disparity between the regions, or some new content is added that I feel justifies the additional risk/effort/cost to continue playing.

[Chuchuroon]

Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

that is one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read.

Are you sure you know how banks work? FDIC-insured US banks offer you up to $100,000 of your money back in case the bank closes, and at any rate a physical, federal-backed bank is generally a much more reliable institution than a third party online payment processing center. If you live in a place where a parallel can be drawn between them, then you have my sympathies. FYI, Banks also don't force you to write checks or make purchases in set increments of $5 even if the goods or services you wish to purchase do not tally up to exact multiples of 5.

No, it's not the end of the world, but yes, it is annoying and not appealing to many consumers. Saying that "life isn't fair" and "deal with it" defeats the purpose of having customer feedback, which promotes the possibility of improving both the customer's experience as well as the company's business.

Anyway, I agree to and support the suggested changes listed in this petition. I feel it's unfair that we are forced to choose between overpaying monthly on this new crysta system or having to go with an untrustworthy third party site, when as mentioned there is another group of individuals who can use the same system without having to overpay.

I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

[Ilax]

I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

[RAIST]

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

[Ilax]

but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

Again is the only fee increase SE made in past 8yr... Note all MMO work that way, just SE was different on that.

For new payment system, i also wan to point... before if you wanted to help a good friend to pay his monthly fee (due to unemployment or w/e it is the reason) you had to log on his account and enter you Credit Card number, and then what happen if that guy refuse to remove you credit card for other month??? You locked to pay for him till your card expire, or have to cancel you credit card etc... tons of fun...

Look now... you can log on your friend account.... Buy 2,000 Crysta with paypal and log out, and Bingo, no credit card locked, no worry for next month, if you still wan pay for him next month, repeat the same precess...

I see more convenient in the new system then any inconvenient, but seem everyone just focus on the tiny inconvenient that is causing. I doubt SE will loose income with this new system, they will actually increase they income big time.

[RAIST]

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:

「クレジットカード」「Crysta」から利用されるお支払方法を選択し、「次へ」をクリックしてください。 "Credit card" "Crysta" and select the payment method used by "Next" Please click on.

※ ※ 「クレジットカード」は、Visa、MasterCardの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したカードがご利用いただけます。 "Credit Card", Visa, personal authentication services for MasterCard (3D Secure) available card with.

※ ※ 「Crysta」はVisa、MasterCard、JCBの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したクレジットカード、およびウェブマネーでチャージすることができます。 "Crysta" are Visa, MasterCard, personal authentication services for JCB (3D secure) credit card with you and to charge money on the web.



クレジットカード番号、有効期限、セキュリティコードを入力し「次へ」をクリックしてください。 Credit card number, expiration date, security code, enter the "Next" please click on the.
Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

[Ilax]

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel--they get to continue doing what we are doing now.

Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crista or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

Agree they are lucky, as they are lucky to have better lag because they live in japan too....

You know as me Visa/mastercard etc in japan and here is different system, 3D secure was a crappy shit done and there not such of bullshit in japan, to me that explain a lots why japan still can use Credit Card and not us...

Researchers criticise 3D Secure credit card authentication (http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Researchers-criticise-3D-Secure-credit-card-authentication-914144.html)

Anyway if you trying to tell me that crappy system we had for credit card was perfect then you clearly have no clue of what you talking about...

[RAIST]

no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).

Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:


*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

[Ilax]

no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).
Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

[RAIST]

Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

nope.. this shows you don't know what you are talking about. 3DS and VbV is not a stand-alone system for processing credit cards. That is a feature that your CC supplier signs up with that provides an extra lair of security within the transaction process. They are using a clearing house in the JP region to handle transactions there (and they require the 3DS authent. to protect themselves), as well as a clearing house in the US to handle CC transactions here--as evidenced in my edit that I think you just missed:


Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:


*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

[Edit:]
did a quick search to find a simple explanation of the protocols and such, conveniently wiki seamed to be pretty decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

[Sp1cyryan]

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

Do you honestly think that if this game lost console users, even just PS2 users that it be a positive thing? If you you are completely disillusioned.

Anyway, people bitched about this billing system when FF14 was in beta and they did not listen. I do not think they are going to listen this time either. It is probably about time this game ends, and for no reason other than SE is clearly going to kill it by their own devices.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

you are completely disillusioned.Disillusioned? lol

[Chuchuroon]

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

You'd rather pay $5 in points you may not be able to spend elsewhere, if at all, rather than directly fund the team that maintains the quality of the game wtf seriously?

Clearly you do not do as you suggest others to since you do not show much reading comprehension at all.

I wasn't even talking about the C&B system and whether or not it charges fees, but about how crysta forces you to overbuy points instead of letting you buy exact amounts, and how it is totally not the same as a banking institution in your poor analogy, and the "problem" is not one that is magically solved by paypal.

Honestly, I'm not even the type to nitpick over every little thing, but when I do see an honest flaw in a system that could use significant improvement, I'm going to attempt to do something about it, even if chances of SE doing something is slim. You even mention yourself how you don't trust C&B... well, it's your own prerogative to accept things even when you yourself don't like it, but don't dismiss other people's attempt to strive for improvement, that's a terrible mentality.

[Dauntless]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

Your thread is for people to express their justified anger, this one outlines our demands. Don't see why it's hard to understand.

[Sp1cyryan]

Disillusioned? lol

Yeah, just occurred to me I used the wrong word, regardless the question stands.

I also made a thread to count how much money SE will lose over this if the people who want direct billing leave. I figure they care more about our money than our outrage or petitions anyway.

[malf]

+1 Quitting

[Hoshi]

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

If that were the case they could have taken CC info outside of Japan on the web browser. :X Mostly I think this is yet another instance of SE not thinking about their playerbase at all while making a bad decision. It will be interesting to see how many people quit and how many others perpetually forget to replenish their crysta every month (and how much money is lost from having fewer subscribers with gaps in their playtime).

[Rosina]

ya I know, just tired of them spamming this statement without anything to back it up.

Really they were probably still using there daddy's CC card for that too and registered for C&B and forgot about it.

i was corrected because the click and buy logo did not load on my ps2 when I hit that option by mistake.
I already have my ffxiv account payment as crysta and planh on buying the cards since I do not need to a debit card. I haven't used my dads debit card to pay for ffxi in a long time. My boyfriend was paying after I had a hard time keeping my account active due to how dumb some of the bank tellers were or an SE glitch.

[Selzak]

or just set up account with ultimate pay and use paypal to buy crysta. Learn to read and do research so much rage over lack of research.
I've have never witnessed so much ironic ignorance in my life. Why do you keep posting shit that's either dismissing, disregarding, or flat out misunderstanding the facts...followed by "learn to read and do research", which is the ironic part. It's every single thread and I don't know if you're joking or not at this point.

[Dauntless]

I've have never witnessed so much ironic ignorance in my life. Why do you keep posting shit that's either dismissing, disregarding, or flat out misunderstanding the facts...followed by "learn to read and do research", which is the ironic part. It's every single thread and I don't know if you're joking or not at this point.

I've come to the conclusion that she's genuinely clueless and thinks she's doing us a favor.

[RAIST]

And... here is another reason NOT to use C&B. A snag posted on another forum. Catwho, a US player (1 state away from me, and uses the same bank I do) used C&B and got slapped with a fee from his bank because the new payment method is no longer using a US based bank and is being FORCED to go through an international vendor now:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=5#219


Well, just hit my first snag. My bank charged me an extra 60 cents for buying $20 worth of Crysta via Click and Buy, calling it an international transaction. I had no warning from Click and Buy or from SE that there would be the extra charge.

[Chuchuroon]

I've come to the conclusion that she's genuinely clueless and thinks she's doing us a favor.

I think there's more people raging over her than the new payment systems at this point.

Way to create MOAR rage when you were raging against the rage in order to try to stop the rage.

[Korpg]

I think there's more people raging over her than the new payment systems at this point.

Way to create MOAR rage when you were raging against the rage in order to try to stop the rage.

That is how mobs work though.

[Meyi]

That is how mobs work though.

What kind of mob are we? Quadavs? Yagudos? I think we can all agree that Goblins and Moblins would be totally awesome.

But please don't tell us we're crawlers or something. :< At least a form of beastmen!

[Dauntless]

What kind of mob are we? Quadavs? Yagudos? I think we can all agree that Goblins and Moblins would be totally awesome.

But please don't tell us we're crawlers or something. :< At least a form of beastmen!

I see what you did there...

[RAIST]

May have stumbled on something about C&B. There might actually be a specific reason why some financial institutions are rejecting them, just haven't been able to get further details as it looks like the site I was in just hit a maintenance window while I was on it.

Click&Buy is stating they are authorised and regulated by the FSA UK:

ClickandBuy International Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom. (Register Number: 454127)
http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/help/pages/04505.html&bereich=surfer

So out of curiosity I went to pull up their reports on them, but can't get any real info on them just yet as it looks like they've started stopping some webapps for maintenance or something while I was browsing. This particular one went offline just after I pulled it up, but the first page from my search was still in my cached pages so I was able to grab at least their basic info:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/register/index.shtml
searched on firm registration number: 454127



Basic details for:
454127 - ClickandBuy International Limited

Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 01/07/2011
Tied Agent:
Undertakes Insurance Mediation:
Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:
Address: Lincoln House
137/143 Hammersmith Road
London
W14 0QL

Phone:
Fax:
Email:
Website:
44 020 7605 0670
44 020 7751 1848
No e-mail supplied
www.clickandbuy.com

Notices:
Other information: The firm now has an e-money record. Please check the e-money link for more information.

Clicked the e-money link and that's when pages started coming up as unavailable. Guess I hit it right when they were taking things down.

Interesting that their basic info states they are not authorised. Which is a little concerning as they are still claiming on their site that they are authorised.

When you go to the FSA's detail on status entries, it simply states

No longer authorised
A firm is no longer allowed to carry out certain types of business that we regulate.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Register/use/firm_status/index.shtml

Which makes me even more curious about just what they are no longer authorized to do, and why. Wish I could get at the reports to get more info.

[Pawkeshup]

What really upsets me is that Japanese players can keep paying with credit cards!

[Niyariko]

What really upsets me is that Japanese players can keep paying with credit cards!

Coz they can't afford to loose any of the JP players ;)

[Sp1cyryan]

Anyone care to explain to me why my thread totaling the money that will be lost from players walking away from the new billing system unless they allow direct billing was deleted?

Does this mean they are allowing direct billing?! If it does not then some mod really did a bad job in my opinion.

[RAIST]

hehe...the dirty little secret was out....and

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!


Surprised I haven't gotten an email from them for continually bringing up the JP directpay debaucle.

[Malacite]

CONSPIRACY!!!

[Eadieni]

I support the paypal initiative for billing.

[Kojo]

Just a hilarious thought.. What if this was all just a way to get more people to join the forums and make SE accounts?

[RAIST]

omg... if they were that desperate, then they may beyond all hope.....

[Kojo]

omg... if they were that desperate, then they may beyond all hope.....

Or if they are just trolling us.

[Sp1cyryan]

There is no PM function to ask about why such an innocent thread was deleted huh?

[Khajit]

I wonder if SE realizes that deleting all the complaints about the billing system in an attempt to pretend nothing is going on only makes people that have problems angrier instead of solving anything?

[Kaida]

Today marks the first time in 7 years my account has been deactivated.

[Dauntless]

They deleted a thread?

Cool, now we're oppressed. And now we're martyrs. And now we have the right to overthrow the system in a revolution.

Cool.

[RAIST]

They deleted a thread?

Cool, now we're oppressed. And now we're martyrs. And now we have the right to overthrow the system in a revolution.

Cool.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!!!!!

[Mizuharu]

You guys know that you don't HAVE to use Click'n Cry. That crysta system is useful actually. Spend 20 bucks on a game card at the local gas station, pay for account here... I'm sure it's been said before, but the crysta system is perfectly fine.

[Hioki]

If paying 2$ extra to cover your account is really breaking you guys I think you have bigger issues to worry about then playing an online game. This is ridiculous for the level of complaints.

[Bubeeky]

ppl are overreacting to this....is it annoying? sure, but is it worth 700+ responses of rage and omg I'm gonna quit? not hardly.

[Aver]

You guys know that you don't HAVE to use Click'n Cry. That crysta system is useful actually. Spend 20 bucks on a game card at the local gas station, pay for account here... I'm sure it's been said before, but the crysta system is perfectly fine.

Crysta system will be fine when we can pay the exact amount of our monthly service fee. Until then it's a scam.

[Sparthos]

If paying 2$ extra to cover your account is really breaking you guys I think you have bigger issues to worry about then playing an online game. This is ridiculous for the level of complaints.

So can I pay SE less than the monthly fee every month since we obviously aren't going to follow the agreed upon price?

[Vold]

Someone called for more paladin reinforcements. This business just got serious!

[Neika]

You guys know that you don't HAVE to use Click'n Cry. That crysta system is useful actually. Spend 20 bucks on a game card at the local gas station, pay for account here... I'm sure it's been said before, but the crysta system is perfectly fine.

Not all regions have access to it though. I myself can't buy those game cards here. I haven't been able to find a store that carries them.

[RAIST]

You guys know that you don't HAVE to use Click'n Cry. That crysta system is useful actually. Spend 20 bucks on a game card at the local gas station, pay for account here... I'm sure it's been said before, but the crysta system is perfectly fine.

Actually, it would be $21.20 here because of local taxes (6%). Someone else posted a 9.5% taxation in their area. Just saying...buying cards will always mean you overspend in comparison to directbill via credit card.

Which is the REAL issue people are upset about...being FORCED out of using the optimal solution for many with NO explanation for why they have kept it for one specific region.

[Tolby]

For those wanting a reason as to why this is happening, I'll offer up a logical one but don't take it as fact cause its just my guess from a business perspective.

Thinking about it, the recent sony hacks should be fresh on everyones mind still. Even more so for businesses like sqaure enix. I'm sure they deal with hacks all the times. There is no better way to protect a customers information such as credit card numbers other than simply not having it. They are trying to force third partys so they can avoid being held accountable for your creditcard/debitcard information and security. Sony recently hired a ton of ppl and have paid alot of money to beef up their security and offer special services to customers after the hack. SE is just trying to make sure that situation can't happen to them, and its now at your expense and frustration. Think about it for a minute, why are they just now of all times suddenly not wanting to hold your card information and forcing the third party? The timing and situation is all too suspicious, especially since they dont give us any feedback as to why this is happening.

Remember, this is not fact, just a logical guess... I couldnt think of any other reason for suddenly changing a 8 year old billing plan randomly out of the blue.

[Romanova]

For those wanting a reason as to why this is happening, I'll offer up a logical one but don't take it as fact cause its just my guess from a business perspective.

Thinking about it, the recent sony hacks should be fresh on everyones mind still. Even more so for businesses like sqaure enix. I'm sure they deal with hacks all the times. There is no better way to protect a customers information such as credit card numbers other than simply not having it. They are trying to force third partys so they can avoid being held accountable for your creditcard/debitcard information and security. Sony recently hired a ton of ppl and have paid alot of money to beef up their security and offer special services to customers after the hack. SE is just trying to make sure that situation can't happen to them, and its now at your expense and frustration. Think about it for a minute, why are they just now of all times suddenly not wanting to hold your card information and forcing the third party? The timing and situation is all too suspicious, especially since they dont give us any feedback as to why this is happening.

Remember, this is not fact, just a logical guess... I couldnt think of any other reason for suddenly changing a 8 year old billing plan randomly out of the blue.


I gotta copy and paste my paragraph so I don't have to keep repeating myself. This change isn't out of the blue. This system isn't new. They created this system for 14 over a year ago with the intent to also put 11 on there so that people could go to one spot for all their SE payments. They just didn't do it a year ago because 14 never went p2p. But they were planning on it, and as I said before, the more logical reason is because they're getting 14 ready to go back to p2p and they wanted to get this set up first.

[Sortis]

or just set up account with ultimate pay and use paypal to buy crysta. Learn to read and do research so much rage over lack of research.

It's not a lack of research, it's a bullcrap system, every big name MMO to date has just let people use their credit card and got billed for that amount. How is that difficult? What is the point of the Crysta system? It doesn't have one, it's a bullcrap way of handling things, you're obviously in the minority here, not only that, but you have a reputation on these forums for defending everything SE does like it's your bread and butter, so nobody can respect anything you say. I'm not being a jerk, i'm stating obvious facts. You wanna take it personally or to heart that is your prerogative.

If I go to Wal-Mart and buy a gallon of milk and the price tag stats $2 and some change and then I get to the register, guess what, Wal-mart doesn't tell me I have to pay $5 for it just because it's a nice round number (but oh they will keep my extra two bucks and change for my next visit) no they give me my freakin' change because it's my money. I'm handing SE a $20 and they're giving me a gift card with my change on it...maybe I wanna spend my extra 7 dollars elsewhere? too bad! our money now! No thats a bullcrap way of handling things. It's just as easy to charge a card $13 as it is to charge it $20 and there is not jack you can say to convince me otherwise because I have higher than a high school education, heck anyone with more than a grade school education and loose grasp on economics can figure this one out lol!

*EDIT* : You just lost 5 subs to this stupid billing system, my friends and I are done with XI and XIV until they get their act together and just let us pay them directly in a non-shady way. Till then we won't be back. Don't bother with any "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts, by the time you read this I assure you, the door will have long been closed, if they can even afford a door after this crappy system pushes through and people bounce.

[RAIST]

Unfortunately, it all breaks down because they have kept the option for the JP Region. They are STILL storing CC info on thier servers, and still processing payments directly. The issue is that very thing--they've singled out one specific region to keep the old method as well as offer them the new method.