Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[Alukat]

so clickandbuy is the only way to extent content id?
dear SE i made a contract with u to play the game.
and i don't want to make another contract with a 3rd party!!!!
so please give us an option to pay via credit card or ELV (germany) without making a contract with clickandbuy!!!

Edit: i neither want to make a contract with clickandbuy nor with other 3rd party payment companies (except for pol,they always did well and to me it seems like there is a much lower risk).

[Rosina]

click and buy is only for crystra >.>
you can still use a credit card if your not going the crystra route.

[Finuve]

click and buy is only for crystra >.>
you can still use a credit card if your not going the crystra route.
this is false

[Alukat]

click and buy is only for crystra >.>
you can still use a credit card if your not going the crystra route.

i want to transfer my POL account to SE, and it's keeps telling me that i have to agree to the clickandbuy user agreements.....

Edit: i really need to quit the game after 5 years? because there's no option to play it without clickandbuy? ;;

[Puck]

That's because, as Finuve just said, Rosina's statement is 100% false. You're FORCED to use Click and Buy if you want to pay for FFXI with a credit/debit card without using Crysta, there is no other option. Use Click and Buy or prepay by buying Crysta, which is not even available in amounts that equate exactly to the monthly fee (meaning you will always need to buy more than you need).

[Alukat]

1795 crysta for my 6 chars, 2000 crysta are 20€ so it's same amount of what i have to pay now.

if i want to get crysta , i have to choose between clickandbuy and UltimatePay >.>
this sucks

[Runespider]

That's because, as Finuve just said, Rosina's statement is 100% false. You're FORCED to use Click and Buy if you want to pay for FFXI with a credit/debit card without using Crysta, there is no other option. Use Click and Buy or prepay by buying Crysta, which is not even available in amounts that equate exactly to the monthly fee (meaning you will always need to buy more than you need).

Square messed up with games like FF14 and put themselves in a bad way financially, when that happens you have to rip off your customers a little to get by. That's where we are now. Crysta is rubbish due to having to buy more than you need every single time and click and buy...well I guess they must of given Square a good deal or something cause that company does not have a good rep at all.

No reason they could not of just let us pay them direct like we have for the last 8-9 years. It's one thing for a game to launch with payment options like this and quite another to give a good service for years then horribly degrade it.

[Alukat]

well if someone hacks/leaks my pol/se account log in, this person could play ff.
but now i have to subscribe to a 3rd pt managing my online purchases, if someone hacks/leaks my account (if i would have one) information this person could buy many things and i would be charged! don't taking this risk to play a game.

[Karbuncle]

From what I've gathered with my GF trying to set this up, Its a bunch of bullshit. I'm going to try and set it up when i can.

Question: is this 100% mandatory? I mean, If you don't switch to ClickandSteal or crysta, will you just not be able to play anymore?

If so, I think this company is finally going to stop getting my money after years of service.

[Alukat]

From what I've gathered with my GF trying to set this up, Its a bunch of bullshit. I'm going to try and set it up when i can.

Question: is this 100% mandatory? I mean, If you don't switch to ClickandSteal or crysta, will you just not be able to play anymore?

If so, I think this company is finally going to stop getting my money after years of service.

yes u can't play anymore then, tried both ways:

when u transfer to extend your ID's it gives u this options:

-Clickandbuy
-Crysta

u have to select one of them.

to buy crysta u have to select one of these:

-clickandbuy
-ultimatepay

no way to avoid a creation of an account at one of this, to continue playing this game.

[Karbuncle]

Well, Sounds like they're just trying to kill off as many people as possible huh?

[Seha]

Seriously, wtf is this ship

[Kraggy]

to buy crysta u have to select one of these:

-clickandbuy
-ultimatepay

no way to avoid a creation of an account at one of this, to continue playing this game.
I've bought Crysta on 3 occasions using UltimatePay, I don't have any 'account' with them at all.

[Alukat]

Well, Sounds like they're just trying to kill off as many people as possible huh?

right now checking if Age of Conan (game's not best but what else should i do) is onlinepayment-account-creation free,if it isn't , then back to diablo II, sadly the hellgate:london servers aren't online anymore ; ;

[Alukat]

I've bought Crysta on 3 occasions using UltimatePay, I don't have any 'account' with them at all.

ah cool
ultimatepay u can select one of the previous ways without creating any accounts.
UltimatePay just sound like another company >.>, little adivce SE, change the name xD

Edit: nvm it leads me to paybycash

[Karbuncle]

Diablo III is a strong contender for me.

If not Diablo II is fine

Edit: also minecraft.

[Paksenarrion]

So, in simple terms that an idiot (Read: Me) can understand, what's the deal with Click and Buy? I mean, what's wrong with them? Other than Paypal is an infinitely better idea. I've seen the posts about it for a good while, but most of the posts were "Don't make us use Click and Buy" and didn't fully explain the issue.

I haven't had a chance to eat my breakfast yet, let alone look into doing this transfer thing.

[Karbuncle]

They're worst than SE when it comes to Customer service

'nuff said

[Alukat]

u have to create an account there, persons who hack your account informations can buy whatever they want online with it and u are being charged.actually i just have a SE account , if someone hacks this this person could just play FF. but now i would have to create a clickandbuy account what pushes me at the risk stated at top.

example:
u got a SE account and pay your 12,95$ there, SE account hacked the person could buy more contend ID's / add-ons if u don't have them yet, max dmg should be like 50$.

now u have to create a clickandbuy account, someone hacks this and buys stuff at inet, lets say he uses it to buy a tv, or whatever, dmg: up to 5000$ or even more if they buy more.

so your own risk and the potential damage done to is by far higher.

that's why i am against this.

[Paksenarrion]

Hmm, alright, what about the other payment method? The Ultimate Game Card I think it was called? Is there an issue regarding that one?

Just trying to get the info on my options while I'm unable to do the account transfer yet because I've been busy. Actually trying to type this in between my customers. XD

[Runespider]

I really really hate Square sometimes, and that is one of the main reasons I will never play any other of their other MMO's. The fact FF14 was crap makes this easier but still..never again...You have to fight to give them your money, they treat you like garbage...and if you don't like it, well tough...you can just quit? Really stupid attitude they have to their users.

Why use such an inferior payment system after all these years, why irritate so many loyal users. I don't understand how a company that needs money as badly as Square does can risk losing so many customers on such shoddy and stupid decisions as this.

[mistmonster]

As I stated in another in another thread and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Clickandbuy charges a 3.9 % fee to every transaction.

and for something I do know personally. I did not know about clickandbuy when I set it up for FFXIV and when they temporarily charged me $1.00 (which is normal) my credit card security dept went crazy. Froze my credit card, got an automated call to find out if I authorized the charge. Then like an hour later a person from the credit card called me to ask if I knew what I was getting into. Said that they would probably freeze the card every time.

[Alukat]

Hmm, alright, what about the other payment method? The Ultimate Game Card I think it was called? Is there an issue regarding that one?

Just trying to get the info on my options while I'm unable to do the account transfer yet because I've been busy. Actually trying to type this in between my customers. XD


2000 crysta costs 20€ (at SE page)

payment methods and prices:

Ultimate game card: 30.38$
Webmoney 30.38$
Ukash 20,87€
ELV (germany) 21.61€ > redirected to paybycash
Moneybookers 20€
Wallie-card 23.84€
Giropay (moneybookers) 20€
instant transfer (moneybookers) 20€
paypal 20€
paysafecard 21,31€

as u can see u always have to sign in for a 3rd party and some of them are charging extra money.

dear SE what are u doing to us? -.-

[Alukat]

As I stated in another in another thread and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Clickandbuy charges a 3.9 % fee to every transaction.

and for something I do know personally. I did not know about clickandbuy when I set it up for FFXIV and when they temporarily charged me $1.00 (which is normal) my credit card security dept went crazy. Froze my credit card, got an automated call to find out if I authorized the charge. Then like an hour later a person from the credit card called me to ask if I knew what I was getting into. Said that they would probably freeze the card every time.

something samiliar happened to me too with online account, was not clickandbuy but can't remember the name.

[Olor]

to buy crysta u have to select one of these:

-clickandbuy
-ultimatepay

no way to avoid a creation of an account at one of this, to continue playing this game.

Account with ultimate pay requires no credit card info given out. Can buy crysta using cards you buy from 7-11 etc.

[Korpg]

You guys could, you know, buy prepaid Credit Cards.

Good website for you guys to get one, even internationally (http://www.credit.com/products/credit_cards/debit.jsp)

[Alukat]

Account with ultimate pay requires no credit card info given out. Can buy crysta using cards you buy from 7-11 etc.

well have to spend extra money/time to buy game cards :x

[Finuve]

You guys could, you know, buy prepaid Credit Cards.

Good website for you guys to get one, even internationally (http://www.credit.com/products/credit_cards/debit.jsp)
so more hassle?

[Aurara]

Can we please just have an option of keeping our payment methods the same?

[Romanova]

As I stated in another in another thread and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Clickandbuy charges a 3.9 % fee to every transaction.

and for something I do know personally. I did not know about clickandbuy when I set it up for FFXIV and when they temporarily charged me $1.00 (which is normal) my credit card security dept went crazy. Froze my credit card, got an automated call to find out if I authorized the charge. Then like an hour later a person from the credit card called me to ask if I knew what I was getting into. Said that they would probably freeze the card every time.

This happened to me when I tried using click and buy back when ff14 first came out. Ended up doing the crysta thing because basically 1. the one cc company I tried won't let me use click and buy (will probably block every time) 2. that's enough to tell me to not try any other CC with these people.

And yet Crysta doesn't come out exact. SE this is some serious bull and makes no sense. I remember back when they did this for ffxiv the amount of complaining, yet it quieted down since 14 never went p2p, but you're memories can't be that bad. In all that time they couldn't think of something better? Let us use our cc like we have for forever. This is ridiculous and bad business.

[Kraggy]

Hmm, alright, what about the other payment method? The Ultimate Game Card I think it was called? Is there an issue regarding that one?
I think you mean UltimatePay.

It's a service run by Play Span and works as a normal e-tailer, ie. you buy Crysta use a one-off CC payment to do so, they in turn tell SE about your purchase and SE put the appropriate amount of Crysta into your SE account's 'pot'.

The BIG difference is that you don't have to create an account with PlaySpan, whereas you do with ClickAndCry.

[Korpg]

so more hassle?

I'll take one-time hassle over having my main credit/debit card in risk anyday. Isn't that your excuse as to why you don't like the new system?

Although, it will be very hard for anyone to steal any money from me. My bank actually has a very good security system in place. Like knowing where I live and knowing what I buy (often).

[Romanova]

ya ultimatepay is probably the safest route out of them all for those trying to figure out options. You can use paypal through the ultimatepay.

[Finuve]

I'll take one-time hassle over having my main credit/debit card in risk anyday. Isn't that your excuse as to why you don't like the new system?

Although, it will be very hard for anyone to steal any money from me. My bank actually has a very good security system in place. Like knowing where I live and knowing what I buy (often).no I have no fear of my credit card being stolen, Im worried about hidden fees n such through click and buy, or overpaying every month through crysta

im not liable if my credit card is stolen, so I couldnt care less

[Karbuncle]

If you do it via Crysta, the leftover crysta stays in your account, So every ~2/3 months you basically get a "Free month" from leftover Crystal if you buy 20$/month

You could alternatively buy 5$ and 10$ worth and only spend 15 instead of 12.95, thats a variation of $2.05, which any good budget should allow room for, especially considering if you're only paying 12.95 (1 account) in 6 months you have neough "Leftover" crysta to pay for 1 month, and you get that money back.

[Dreaubaut]

made a account for the click an buy service and wus billed (soon as i registered my card) 100$ then a 5$ charge ontop of that this service has a hugely bad rep for stealing ppls money plus they charge a extra monthly fee of there own ontop of the ffxi fee's requested a refund and can'ed the account dont see how this is fair to ppl who just want to play a game

[Korpg]

no I have no fear of my credit card being stolen, Im worried about hidden fees n such through click and buy, or overpaying every month through crysta

im not liable if my credit card is stolen, so I couldnt care less

They aren't hidden if it is spelled out on the ToS, but you have to read that. People complain that they are hidden because they don't read the ToS. Which is their fault.

[Vivik]

I have been jumping through hoops all morning with Click and Buy to try and verify my account. I had created an account when 14 was released but cancelled it before the first month was up. I cancelled my recurring payment through click and buy before my card was verified.

Now they want me to send them my drivers license, bank statement, and a signed form to prove my CC info. Thanks but no thanks.

[Finuve]

If you do it via Crysta, the leftover crysta stays in your account, So every ~2/3 months you basically get a "Free month" from leftover Crystal if you buy 20$/month

You could alternatively buy 5$ and 10$ worth and only spend 15 instead of 12.95, thats a variation of $2.05, which any good budget should allow room for, especially considering if you're only paying 12.95 (1 account) in 6 months you have neough "Leftover" crysta to pay for 1 month, and you get that money back. I have 2 accounts, 3 characters, 26.90 a month, crysta is purchaseable in 500 increments, the LCM of 26.90 on 500 is 134500, so, until I have purchased and used 134,500 crysta which is 1,345 dollars, or 50 months of game time or 4.1 years in order for me to finally have given the exact proper amount of money

[Karbuncle]

I have 2 accounts, 3 characters, 26.90 a month, crysta is purchaseable in 500 increments, the LCM of 26.90 on 500 is 134500, so, until I have purchased and used 134,500 crysta which is 1,345 dollars, or 50 months of game time or 4.1 years in order for me to finally have given the exact proper amount of money

Or............. Big or

You could simply purchase 30$ a month worth of Crysta, which is 3.10 more than you would normally pay (well within a healthy budgets spending parameters), and in 9 Months you've generated enough left-over Crysta to pay for 1 month. essentially regaining that 26.90.

Theres a fine line between reasonable complaints (Click and buy sucking ass) and just looking for reasons to bitch. I want it to stay the same as its always been, because this entire thing is an added inconvenience, but as far as inconveniences go, Crysta is the lesser of the evils by a large margin

[Korpg]

I have 2 accounts, 3 characters, 26.90 a month, crysta is purchaseable in 500 increments, the LCM of 26.90 on 500 is 134500, so, until I have purchased and used 134,500 crysta which is 1,345 dollars, or 50 months of game time or 4.1 years in order for me to finally have given the exact proper amount of money

You don't understand Karby's post.

You have a bill for 26.90 per month, you just said that. You buy 3000 crysta. That means each month you have an extra 310 crysta left over. Well, you have a choice next month, you can either buy another 3000 crysta or 2500 crysta. If you buy 3000 crysta, you will have 620 left over. If you buy 2500 crysta, you will have 120 crysta left over. Either way, you still have an account for the 2 months.

Sure, over 4.1 years/50 months, you will pay exactly 1345 dollars, but you know what, so will I. So will Karby. So will anyone else who plays this game.

[Finuve]

Or............. Big or

You could simply purchase 30$ a month worth of Crysta, which is 3.10 more than you would normally pay (well within a healthy budgets spending parameters), and in 9 Months you've generated enough left-over Crysta to pay for 1 month. essentially regaining that 26.90.

Theres a fine line between reasonable complaints (Click and buy sucking ass) and just looking for reasons to bitch. I want it to stay the same as its always been, because this entire thing is an added inconvenience, but as far as inconveniences go, Crysta is the lesser of the evils by a large marginand yet after those 9 months i still have $1 left over, i dont like overpaying

[Dragoy]

Ever since I met this thing called ClickandBye® when trying to set it up for FFXIV to try out a 'buddycode', it took days and they charged for verifying the account (similar to PayPal), and in the end, they still wanted a copy of my driver's license, or passport and that is where I told them they could use the few € I had given them into a cup of coffee or/and beer, and requested kindly to cancel the account.

I did then notice, that I had 'free Crysta' due to the code I had entered, but there still was no way to get the game installed haha!

Oh well, I had enough of it in the Alpha and Beta phases anyways.


So only option for me is to buy this Crysta nonsense via PlaySpan, Inc. (which I have never heard of) using PayPal® (which I 'luckily' have an account created and used for 1 single payment 3 years ago), and hope that it works.

Not that I'm sure that I will even continue playing after this, though, and this will be the last thread I repeat myself (lol), or so I hope.


I gotta say, I did see what will become of this already when they first announced it, since I had a taste of it via the FFXIV try-out.
I knew exactly how people would react, and I am sure SqEX, for the most part at least, did as well.
It will be interesting to see how it will work out in the end, though.

[Korpg]

and yet after those 9 months i still have $1 left over, i dont like overpaying

Now you are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Karbuncle]

and yet after those 9 months i still have $1 left over, i dont like overpaying

I can see your point but seriously, 1$.

I agree this is a retarded hassle and should never be implemented because its a huge inconvenience to their playerbase, especially after so many years of using our current method... But its not as bad as using Click and Buy. I wish it would stay the same but its wishful thinking.

Either way i don't think hoping for it to go back to normal will work, if SE has shown anything in the past its that they really don't give a FK what we think or how we feel about their business choices... Our only other options is quitting.

We could ask them to add more specific Crysta payment amounts, But I doubt they'd listen to that either.

[Finuve]

Now you are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

And ur quick to justify nickle and diming schemes, a dollar may be pretty worthless, but if 400,000 ppl let square have an extra dollar...

Its principle, i wokt buy gift cards or microsoft points for the same reason

[Korpg]

If you are a NA customer, you can keep the old method as long as your bank or card company uses 3D secure and all that jazz. I think this will only affect EU players, since their card companies aren't as reliable and the EU doesn't have a set method of banking regulations.

[Karbuncle]

And ur quick to justify nickle and diming schemes, a dollar may be pretty worthless, but if 400,000 ppl let square have an extra dollar...

Its principle, i wokt buy gift cards or microsoft points for the same reason

They aren't letting them have an extra dollar, the dollar is still yours and in your Crysta account, to be used another day. This isn't shaving anything off the top.

[Romanova]

, and in 9 Months you've generated enough left-over Crysta to pay for 1 month.

I know many people including myself who take breaks from this game to play others (I know for a fact I will be stopping to try KotOR, and who knows where after that? Yes, I may go back to FFXI but I may go back to WoW or Warhammer, or all the other games I enjoy playing). and considering crysta expires after two years this is not necessarily a good method for everyone.

People have a right to complain about this, there is no reason their customers should have to do that work around in the first place.


They want to stay in the MMO field and they're still 100x behind Blizzard when it comes to customer service it's sad.

[Inafking]

I've bought Crysta on 3 occasions using UltimatePay, I don't have any 'account' with them at all.

You know what's weird? They use PayPal and if Square went through PayPal directly, they would probably make more money. BTW, PayPal>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>C&B as far as user satisfaction because people are satisfied when their info is secure.

[Karbuncle]

I know many people including myself who take breaks from this game to play others (I know for a fact I will be stopping to try KotOR, and who knows where after that? Yes, I may go back to FFXI but I may go back to WoW or Warhammer, or all the other games I enjoy playing). and considering crysta expires after two years this is not necessarily a good method for everyone.

People have a right to complain about this, there is no reason their customers should have to do that work around in the first place.


They want to stay in the MMO field and they're still 100x behind Blizzard when it comes to customer service it's sad.


Either way i don't think hoping for it to go back to normal will work, if SE has shown anything in the past its that they really don't give a FK what we think or how we feel about their business choices... Our only other options is quitting.

We could ask them to add more specific Crysta payment amounts, But I doubt they'd listen to that either.

Yes, and i agree with you as i said right here. I'm only trying to point out there is at least one semi-painless method in this madness.

its certainly nowhere near perfect...

[Romanova]

If you are a NA customer, you can keep the old method as long as your bank or card company uses 3D secure and all that jazz.

This isn't true. You still have to use click and buy, and as some of us have said previously, some of our CC companies block click and buy because it is shady.


(edit: that is if you don't do the cysta method fyi)

[Romanova]

Yes, and i agree with you as i said right here. I'm only trying to point out there is at least one semi-painless method in this madness.

its certainly nowhere near perfect...

ya, I'm not so much arguing as pointing out the flaws in their system so maybe they'll realize that this whole thing is stupid.

[Korpg]

And ur quick to justify nickle and diming schemes, a dollar may be pretty worthless, but if 400,000 ppl let square have an extra dollar...

Its principle, i wokt buy gift cards or microsoft points for the same reason

Over time, this is not a nickel and dime scheme. And do you honestly think that SE will not refund the money if and when they decide to shut down FFXI? The have to, based on International Commerce Laws. Otherwise they are liable to refund the entire subscription costs to everyone. So which is cheaper, refunding the buck and a half to everyone for overpayment on crysta, or refunding thousands of dollars per player over the years?

You should really get over this whole "Corporations are out to screw the little people" idea of yours. All it will give you is ulcers in the long run.

[Karbuncle]

ya, I'm not so much arguing as pointing out the flaws in their system so maybe they'll realize that this whole thing is stupid.

One would hope so but judging by their past record...

we're f*cked :|

I mean really, Using such a shady ass ThirdParty like ClickAndBuy? to the point most CC auto-block it? What the hell is SE thinking?

[Arcalimo]

Dear SE,

Click and buy service is a garbage.
Besides of the bad reputation it has and the problems that are reporting some people that is trying to register to transfer their account, it won't even let me insert my real city name, it does auto-correct me to another town name that is near mine that its about 5 times smaller :S

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1600/nuevaimagendemapadebitsp.png

So do you want me to put false information i guess? No thanks.

We want a solution, either give more options or use another service more serious.
And no, doing 40 km. to buy some targets to exchange them for crysta isn't another serious option. (that if even they are available in Spain in some serious videogame shops, i doubt it, at least on my region.)

So please, give us answers, and add support for other payment services.

kk, thank you.

[Korpg]

This isn't true. You still have to use click and buy, and as some of us have said previously, some of our CC companies block click and buy because it is shady.


(edit: that is if you don't do the cysta method fyi)

Yet, you can also talk to your bank and have them only authorize the $XX amount of payment per month for ClickandBuy.

And most banks will do that for free. It is that simple.

[Romanova]

Yet, you can also talk to your bank and have them only authorize the $XX amount of payment per month for ClickandBuy.

And most banks will do that for free. It is that simple.

and as I said before, if my cc company considers them a shady company I'd have to be retarded to use them in the first place.

And you said we could keep it the same if we were NA, and I was pointing out, that's simply not true. We are forced to either use Click and Buy or crysta through paypal just the same as the EU people.

[Finuve]

crysta guarantees SE a few extra bucks from everyone when they quit playing, and if their servers shut down they still dont have to refund anyone since the crysta is still good for other things, even if the players never intend to use those things

[Romanova]

Over time, this is not a nickel and dime scheme. And do you honestly think that SE will not refund the money if and when they decide to shut down FFXI? The have to, based on International Commerce Laws. Otherwise they are liable to refund the entire subscription costs to everyone. So which is cheaper, refunding the buck and a half to everyone for overpayment on crysta, or refunding thousands of dollars per player over the years?

You should really get over this whole "Corporations are out to screw the little people" idea of yours. All it will give you is ulcers in the long run.


crysta guarantees SE a few extra bucks from everyone when they quit playing, and if their servers shut down they still dont have to refund anyone since the crysta is still good for other things, even if the players never intend to use those things

quoting for truth to point this out to korpg. Even if ffxi shut down you can still use crysta for 14, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on about getting your money refunded because crysta isn't for one specific thing. They would tell you to spend it on their "other se products".

[Vivik]

Over time, this is not a nickel and dime scheme. And do you honestly think that SE will not refund the money if and when they decide to shut down FFXI? The have to, based on International Commerce Laws. Otherwise they are liable to refund the entire subscription costs to everyone. So which is cheaper, refunding the buck and a half to everyone for overpayment on crysta, or refunding thousands of dollars per player over the years?

You should really get over this whole "Corporations are out to screw the little people" idea of yours. All it will give you is ulcers in the long run.

Show me where the crysta refund section is.

[Finuve]

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Retailers-find-profit-windfall-unused-gift-1196952.php

this is old but still very relevant, the best part (from a business perspective, not from a customer perspective) is that with Crysta, MS points, Wii Points(though these tend to be better on their increments) is that when someone uses a giftcard, if there is overflow they can pay with cash, whereas with these points system overflow on the purchase requires buying more points which are almost certain to never match up properly to the amount actually being spent, its a perfect way for a company to guarantee a little extra profit

so even if the amount that I would lose would be minimal, I can't support Crysta out of principal

[Alhanelem]

There are no principles to object to. It's not a money making scheme.

Apparently, this is a choice between a generic devil and Satan.

[Finuve]

There are no principles to object to. It's not a money making scheme.

Apparently, this is a choice between a generic devil and Satan.
read the link I posted, just like gift cards it IS a money making scheme, if they weren't trying to get extra profit out of it we'd be able to buy in any amounts

[Korpg]

Show me where the crysta refund section is.

I will when you show me where SE announced that FFXI will be terminated.

[Korpg]

You know what, there is no point in arguing with fanatics who believe that everything is a scheme to get something out of them.

[Malamasala]

At least SE are doing these money grubbing things at the right time. People wouldn't have accepted this at 75 cap, but now that it is between 75 cap and 99 cap, people will feel forced to stay just to see if the game becomes good enough to put up with the Crysta system.

While they are terrible at customer support, they sure know how to make money.

[Neonii]

and yet after those 9 months i still have $1 left over, i dont like overpaying

Hum would it be offset by the service charge that comes with the other option? This is confusing but my last online game it was the same . If you wanted to use game cards they cost more than the monthly game fee. I always opted for the credit card/debit card. In the current economy the games fees themselves are a luxury, so being asked to cover additional fees or additional monthly service charges is a bit much.

Is there any option that does not call for extra cash up front? It's really not fair to drop expenses over the established amount on people out of the blue. Some people have to budget ahead for extra stuff.

[Romanova]

I will when you show me where SE announced that FFXI will be terminated.

And as we've already pointed out, ffxi being terminated will not refund your money anyway. So that's irrelevant.

[Korpg]

And as we've already pointed out, ffxi being terminated will not refund your money anyway. So that's irrelevant.

You have obviously never read international commerce law, have you?

[Panthera]

We could ask them to add more specific Crysta payment amounts, But I doubt they'd listen to that either.
There's something about the bold part that makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

Why should it be so hard to purchase exactly one month's worth without overpaying?

[Finuve]

You have obviously never read international commerce law, have you?Microsoft terminated support for Halo 2 and didnt have to refund anything, its the same concept, as long as the crysta is still good for something (in this case FFXIV or other random online avatar crap) SE loopholes that law. Then once the crysta expires they can jot it down as revenue

[Vivik]

I will when you show me where SE announced that FFXI will be terminated.

You remind me of my teenage son. Has an answer for everything but is absolutely clueless as to how the real world works.

[Alukat]

SE is killing the game slowly but defenately faster as it was with level 75 cap.
back in the days u had to grind things very often to get your stuff, dynamis,sky,salvage,einherjar.
u needed a ls and u had more competition what makes u play longer, this isn't anymore since weakness targeting because most items drop as hell.

many ppl left since abyssea (server were splittet before abyssea and shortly after abyssea they have been merged)
now with some ppl leaving because of new annoying payment.
and with weakness target implementet into salvage & einherjar, ppl who are actually doing it to get stuff will be done with it soon too.
and if weakness targeting is still there at 99 most players will be done with the stuff soon and they will leave, but its more casual player friendly so many ppl will hop in and out. but still it has the risk that more ppl leaving the game as ppl join the game, so yeah the game could be dead in 2-3 years.

[Finuve]

There's something about the bold part that makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

Why should it be so hard to purchase exactly one month's worth without overpaying?because there is no extra profit involved, if u purchase 20 bucks then quit SE just made another 7 bucks off of you, however if you purchase 1,295 then quit, they get nothing, or having that extra 7 bucks sitting there becomes enticement to pay another month

its the same reason XBLA is so much more profitable than PSN games, when someone purchases an xboxl game thats 1200 and they pay with a 1600 card they are sitting on an extra 400 points that either becomes pure profit if unused, or enticement for the consumer to buy MORE points cards to cover another purchase

[Karbuncle]

Then just quit?

Its a sad conclusion to come to but according to your moral standard you have no choice.

[Romanova]

You have obviously never read international commerce law, have you?

And you apparently didn't understand it. If ffxi shuts down SE has OTHER products you can spend it on. When you buy crysta you never ever anywhere specify that you want that crysta for FFXI only. There is NO way SE would have to refund your money because you have NO proof that the crysta was specifically for FFXI and FFXI only.

[Korpg]

Microsoft terminated support for Halo 2 and didnt have to refund anything, its the same concept, as long as the crysta is still good for something (in this case FFXIV or other random online avatar crap) SE loopholes that law. Then once the crysta expires they can jot it down as revenue

I am unfamiliar with this situation, did Microsoft require you to pay with American currency?

[Finuve]

Then just quit?

Its a sad conclusion to come to but according to your moral standard you have no choice.
nah, cuz I have nothing against click and buy (I said hidden fee earlier I meant additional fee) and I will pay that, I would much rather SE use something like paypal where the additional fee is covered by the company not the consumer (as well as just being a much more reputable service) but that can be argued back and forth

but as someone who puts gaming ahead of pretty much everything else in life I find it important to advocate of sorts against or for certain practices (DLC prices, DRM, rehashes with few upgrades costing to much, payment systems, on disc DLC) but regardless

[Korpg]

And you apparently didn't understand it. If ffxi shuts down SE has OTHER products you can spend it on. When you buy crysta you never ever anywhere specify that you want that crysta for FFXI only. There is NO way SE would have to refund your money because you have NO proof that the crysta was specifically for FFXI and FFXI only.

Yes you have proof. If you don't sign up for FFXIV at all, that is proof enough there. You have to sign up for other products that SE requires you to pay in crysta in order for them to not give you the option of a refund.

They are required by law to give you a refund if you only use crysta for FFXI, and they terminate FFXI. All you have to do is give them proof, which they already have (based on crysta usage information).

Believe me, SE is not going to screw anyone over on this, because they are too big of a company to do so. The bad publicity would ruin them.

[Finuve]

I am unfamiliar with this situation, did Microsoft require you to pay with American currency?you had to purchase a subscription to Xbox live to play the game, halo 2 terminated, however since that subscription is still good for other things, even though the consumer may not care at all about the other things its good for, MS did not have to refund those subscriptions

[Korpg]

you had to purchase a subscription to Xbox live to play the game, halo 2 terminated, however since that subscription is still good for other things, even though the consumer may not care at all about the other things its good for, MS did not have to refund those subscriptions

The subscription was not for Halo 2 alone. Therefor Microsoft was not at liberty to refund subscription fees.

Crysta, however, can be used for FFXI alone, having an account stating where and what crysta is used for is proof enough of your intent of buying/using crysta. Therefor they are mandated by law to issue a full refund if, and only if, you purchase crysta to subscribe to FFXI alone.

[Zakuto]

So... I normally don't post on the forum. But Click and Buy has pissed me off. I added my credit card to their site after making an account. They billed my card $2.40 and I thought that was okay. They are just testing my card. But then I went to verify my card and they billed me enough for $3.81.

And so I have been billed $6.21 by Click and Buy. It may not seem like much, but it matters to me for the fact that I don't make too much money.

I wish they had used PayPal. It would have made my life so much more simpler.

[Romanova]

Yes you have proof. If you don't sign up for FFXIV at all, that is proof enough there.

That is not proof at all lol. See the microsoft example above. You are wrong, just admit it. When you buy crysta it's to spend on SE products, as long as they have products that can be spent with it, they don't have to refund anything.

[Zoner]

There are many people that are having problems buying Crysta and/or signing up for clickandbuy in my linkshell alone. Afew are talking about just quitting at the end of August if SE intends on using these crappy payment systems. I had no trouble myself transferring to the new SE system (so far), but if all my friends end up quitting i might follow them to another game too. Good job SE at driving out loyal customers....

[Korpg]

That is not proof at all lol. See the microsoft example above. You are wrong, just admit it. When you buy crysta it's to spend on SE products, as long as they have products that can be spent with it, they don't have to refund anything.

You know, if you really are that worried about it, then you have 2 options: Buy a prepaid credit card or don't have enough crysta on your account more than the min amount you can purchase.

Actually, the third option would be to quit, but that would be for a completely different reason.

[Romanova]

The subscription was not for Halo 2 alone. Therefor Microsoft was not at liberty to refund subscription fees.

Crysta, however, can be used for FFXI alone, having an account stating where and what crysta is used for is proof enough of your intent of buying/using crysta. Therefor they are mandated by law to issue a full refund if, and only if, you purchase crysta to subscribe to FFXI alone.

you have to be trolling at this point....


The subscription was not for Halo 2 alone

Neither is crysta....




Crysta, however, can be used for FFXI alone,

Microsoft would have also had logs that someone was ONLY playing halo 2. Just as your claims that people were only using crysta for ffxi.


You're grasping at straws, just stop.

[Romanova]

You know, if you really are that worried about it, then you have 2 options: Buy a prepaid credit card or don't have enough crysta on your account more than the min amount you can purchase.

Actually, the third option would be to quit, but that would be for a completely different reason.


I am well aware of my options thank you. My options don't make a difference about you not understanding about refunds.

[Korpg]

Roma, you of all people are "grasping for straws" here.

Did Microsoft state that the user can separate the fees into different game usage? I'm sure that there are a lot more products offered by Microsoft than what SE offers now. There is a difference of numbers here.

Also, nice for you to take my quote out of context. If you are going to make a point, at least bold the part of the sentence, not erase the other half that would make your argument invalid.

[Romanova]

If you are going to make a point, at least bold the part of the sentence, not erase the other half that would make your argument invalid.

None of what you said made my argument invalid. I didn't quote it because you repeated yourself and I already stated that isn't proof enough to get a refund. I'm not up for circular arguments even if you are.

[Dreaubaut]

No Cash Refunds
Except as required by law, Registered Users have no right to receive a cash refund for unused Crysta.
If a third party obtains access to a Square Enix Account by use of a Registered Users’ Square Enix ID and password, the Registered User must notify SQUARE ENIX immediately in order to be eligible for any possible remedial action by SQUARE ENIX. SQUARE ENIX will investigate any claim of a compromised Square Enix Account and, in its sole discretion, may add some Crysta to the balance if the third party depleted the Square Enix Account without authorization. SQUARE ENIX will not add Crysta if the Registered User did not take appropriate steps to protect a Square Enix ID and password from third parties, including members of the Registered User’s household. (new terms of service)

[Dragoy]

nah, cuz I have nothing against click and buy (I said hidden fee earlier I meant additional fee) and I will pay that, I would much rather SE use something like paypal where the additional fee is covered by the company not the consumer (as well as just being a much more reputable service) but that can be argued back and forth

but as someone who puts gaming ahead of pretty much everything else in life I find it important to advocate of sorts against or for certain practices (DLC prices, DRM, rehashes with few upgrades costing to much, payment systems, on disc DLC) but regardless
If you would prefer PayPal®, did you look into Ultimate Pay® via PlaySpan, Inc.?

I haven't yet gone through this myself, as I am not sure if I want to, but it would seem it is more simple and I think I would recommend that especially if you already have an account with PayPal® even if it's only because I had personally terrible experiences with ClickandBye®.

[Orson]

Angry customer - I don't want to screw around jumping through hoops to try and give you money. Also from what people are saying click & buy has a bad business and customer service reputation. At least let us pay directly or allow us to set up a crysta subscription for the exact amounts we need.

[Dreamin]

First off, if you're using a credit card and not your bank debit card, you always have the credit card company as a layer of protection between you and any false charges to your acct. 2nd, from a business point of view, it makes perfect sense for what/why SE is doing this. They want to streamline their accounting dept and improve security for themselves for various business reasons - i.e. insurance - believe it or not, insurance company will charge you more if you're actually storing customer's credit card info on your own server vs farming it out to outside vendor who has certain 'certifications' - whether or not those vendors are truly secured or not is a completely different subject matter. yes, this sound stupid but that's how the real world work.

Frankly I think it's a smart move from SE's point of view and to get themselves leaner and hopefully can weather through the lows of the recent quarters and move back ahead down the road.

As for choice of using Clicknbuy vs Paypal, that I agreed probably isn't something that I would pick myself but I'm sure that underneath, CnB gave them a deal that Paypal just cannot match.

If you think giving your credit card info over to at least a NAMED and KNOWN online vendor is bad, how many ppl ever gave their card to some waiter/waitress who just took it to the back somewhere to have it charged? Do you even know what the background of that waiter/waitress is? What's their name and did they make a copy of your card while in the back?

Like I've said when starting, you always have your credit card company sitting between you and the vendor that is trying to charge you money. Check your credit card bill(s) every month. Call your card company if there are charges on there that you dont recognized/authorized. Should never blind trust anyone to begin with.

[Dooom]

The trouble with using Paypal is it requires you to use Crysta, which you cannot buy in nice figures to match your monthly fees. As such, you end up over-paying per month, until you reach a stage where the two accounts may balance out. It strikes me as a very cynical cash-grab by SE to set the figures this way for Crysta; which is very sad given the reputation of ClickAndBuy.

Very disappointed in SE for how this is looking to play out. I have never seen a company make you jump through so many hoops to make a customer give them their money.

[Raksha]

So I decided to go with the Crysta bullshit since clickandbuy wouldn't accept my VERIFIED BY VISA card.

In addition to that chocobo circuit wand I want a fucking pony SE.

[Byrth]

I see this as a Q3 moneygrab for SE while they cut costs by reducing infrastructure.

People have to switch to Crysta -> People buy several months worth of Crysta so they don't have to buy it again every month -> SE is effectively paid for several months in advance -> SE's Q3 report looks better than it should

If half the subscribers do that, that's a substantial amount of money. Even long-term, SE can earn interest on the advance payments of thousands of customers who are too lazy to "buy Crysta" every month because the process is no longer automated. The alternative (paying through a shitty 3P company with a bad rep and a 3% surcharge) is designed to encourage using the Crysta system.

I think they're definitely going to lose subscribers over this.

[Romanova]

If you think giving your credit card info over to at least a NAMED and KNOWN online vendor with a well-known BAD reputation

ftfy. They are not known as a good company, they are named as a bad company.

[Maacha]

I will second/third/whatever the motion to have us be allowed to "subscribe" to Crysta, allowing us to buy it in exactly the amounts we need each month. I am setting up my PayPal account to buy Crysta now, because Click and Buy is very shady. If it stays as it is, I will need to buy Crysta every other month because I have 3 accounts and a total of 24 characters >.>

[Dragoy]

The trouble with using Paypal is it requires you to use Crysta
Oh right, I wasn't thinking about that there.
The frustration seems to be clouding my mind.


In addition to that chocobo circuit wand I want a fucking pony SE.
Hahah!
Sounds good to me ! !! !

[Dreamin]

ftfy. They are not known as a good company, they are named as a bad company.

Oddly are you sure you're not thinking of a different company instead? Clickandbuy is an international company (based in London I believe) and owned by Deutsche Telekom.

I believe SE chooses them because the fact that with 1 payment company they can cover both EU and NA (I'm not 100% sure if they operate in JP or not).

[Firesped]

u have to create an account there, persons who hack your account informations can buy whatever they want online with it and u are being charged.actually i just have a SE account , if someone hacks this this person could just play FF. but now i would have to create a clickandbuy account what pushes me at the risk stated at top.

example:
u got a SE account and pay your 12,95$ there, SE account hacked the person could buy more contend ID's / add-ons if u don't have them yet, max dmg should be like 50$.

now u have to create a clickandbuy account, someone hacks this and buys stuff at inet, lets say he uses it to buy a tv, or whatever, dmg: up to 5000$ or even more if they buy more.

so your own risk and the potential damage done to is by far higher.

that's why i am against this.

IF you DON'T verify your credit/debit card with clickandbuy they limit how much you can spend. you shouldn't need to verify for the amounts being used to pay a monthly bill.

[Orlind]

I've worked at support centres attached to companies that use 3rd party payment processors and I can confirm that ClickAndBuy was one of the worst to deal with. This was especially true when I had conference calls between a client and their support centre. Everytime a client called in about ClickAndBuy, I always muted my mic as I groaned slightly. And I couldn't pass it up to a supervisor because I was that person as well.

Also, if I'm looking at the fee table correctly, ClickAndBuy also charges 5.9% if a currency exchange is required. So anyone not in the US, UK or EU has to pay even more just to fund an account.

[Dreamin]

someone also mentioned that CnB requires a 3.9% fee, you do know that's ONLY if you're funding it like a bank where you put money in it (what they called pre-loading) which is NOT the same as using it as a direct payment transaction (you can have a look at their fee table at http://www.clickandbuy.com/US_en/terms-and-conditions.html#c673 - open up the 1st 'more' under the "For Customer" and going to section 17. Fee Table).

[Octaviane]

Please note bolded sentence below guys:

NA] Square Enix Account Transfer
In order to better safeguard the account security of PlayOnline users and to provide a more streamlined account management experience, we will be transferring all PlayOnline IDs to the Square Enix Account system.

The transfer process will be available in the last half of July, and will give users access to an improved user interface that will allow account management from any web-browser.

Please visit the following URL for details on all of these changes.
http://support.na.square-enix.com/j/kb59527na

Please note that all users will have to log in and agree to the transfer by August 31, 2011, or they will lose access to PlayOnline and FINAL FANTASY XI.

In the last half of July, a walkthrough detailing the transfer process will be posted on the PlayOnline website as well as the FAQ section of the Square Enix Support Center.

This transfer will require you have a Square Enix Account. If you don’t already have a Square Enix Account, we strongly encourage you to create one in advance at https://secure.square-enix.com/account/app/svc/register. Customers who already have Square Enix Accounts need only complete the transfer process.

We hope you’ll agree that this marks a significant step towards providing a more secure, user-friendly, and responsive experience.

[Romanova]

Oddly are you sure you're not thinking of a different company instead? Clickandbuy is an international company (based in London I believe) and owned by Deutsche Telekom.

nope, I did a lot of research on them back when we had this fiasco with ff14. They are shady and I saw tons and tons and tons of complaints with people where they were constantly charging the wrong amounts, and took forever to refund.

They also have terrible customer service which I witnessed first-hand when I couldn't get my cc to work.

Their American division even has an F rating through the BBB

http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/business-reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-dealers/clickandbuy-com-in-new-york-ny-94189/

review of the site:

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews239738.html


iono if outside the US it has a good rep, but here it is considered trash.

[Dreamin]

Also, if I'm looking at the fee table correctly, ClickAndBuy also charges 5.9% if a currency exchange is required. So anyone not in the US, UK or EU has to pay even more just to fund an account.

SE said in the transfer document somewhere that each region will be billed using that region's currency so for the EU players, they will be billed using Euro's so they would not have incur this additional charges. Now, whether or not they have actually set that up correctly or not, I have absolutely no idea.

[Maacha]

Also, if I'm looking at the fee table correctly, ClickAndBuy also charges 5.9% if a currency exchange is required. So anyone not in the US, UK or EU has to pay even more just to fund an account.

Exactly the reason I won't use C&B. I have a US account, and am a US citizen, but am currently living in Korea. I used to be able to pay for FFXI using my Korean credit card, now I will have to use PayPal in order to do this. PayPal does not, as far as I can tell, have an extra fee for exchanging currencies if you are sending payment.

[Orlind]

someone also mentioned that CnB requires a 3.9% fee, you do know that's ONLY if you're funding it like a bank where you put money in it (what they called pre-loading) which is NOT the same as using it as a direct payment transaction (you can have a look at their fee table at http://www.clickandbuy.com/US_en/terms-and-conditions.html#c673 - open up the 1st 'more' under the "For Customer" and going to section 17. Fee Table).

What Dreamin says is true of course and is how many 3rd party payment processors work should they allow for direct payments (which they will as to attract clients).

However should there be any disputes, I will feel pity for the poor souls that have to deal with their support centre staff.

[Niyariko]

One of the reason I quit FFXIV is coz of ClickandBuy...
read this SE noclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuy
noclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuy
NO CLICK AND BUY!!!
And keep the existing payment system
noclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuy
Thank you:)
noclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuynoclickandbuy

[Alukat]

2000 crysta costs 20€ (at SE page)

payment methods and prices:

Ultimate game card: 30.38$
Webmoney 30.38$
Ukash 20,87€
ELV (germany) 21.61€ > redirected to paybycash
Moneybookers 20€
Wallie-card 23.84€
Giropay (moneybookers) 20€
instant transfer (moneybookers) 20€
paypal 20€
paysafecard 21,31€

as u can see u always have to sign in for a 3rd party and some of them are charging extra money.

dear SE what are u doing to us? -.-

my page 3 quote.
EU based.

[drwaffles]

/signed

What SE needs to realise is that a large number of players only keep their direct debit going out of habit. They might only log in a few times a month (like me) or use XI as a chatroom at this point, and these sorts of players are unlikely to bother paying any more if they have to remember to do it manually. This isn't even taking into account the cumbersome nature of the new system or the fact that Crysta is a blatantly cynical money-grab.

I know for a fact that if the billing system wasn't automated then I would have paid significantly less in subscription fees over the last year, so I'm fairly sure they won't be getting much money off me at all through 2011/12.

[Orlind]

SE said in the transfer document somewhere that each region will be billed using that region's currency so for the EU players, they will be billed using Euro's so they would not have incur this additional charges. Now, whether or not they have actually set that up correctly or not, I have absolutely no idea.

I have no doubts that SE would try to smooth over the fees in this manner. However, having to deal with ClickAndBuy indirectly for years, I can say that even they break their own rules far more often than other payment processors I've had to deal with.

So maybe I'm not in a habit of trusting them (or most other payment processors for that matter).

[Vivik]

What Dreamin says is true of course and is how many 3rd party payment processors work should they allow for direct payments (which they will as to attract clients).

However should there be any disputes, I will feel pity for the poor souls that have to deal with their support centre staff.

I called with some questions about my verification earlier and it took a half hour for someone to pick up the phone. Then I get the typical Indian rep on the phone and I can't understand a damn thing they are saying. Needless to say I ended up just getting some crysta but I don't think I will be continuing with my sub after Sept. 1st. It's just too much of a hassle having to jump through hoops to play twice a week.

[ceown]

So I finally registered to post this, as I myself refuse to use C&B, and I hate overpaying for a service as it limits if I wanted to take time off or even quit the game entirely.

TLDR; Look at the bottom and complain.

Had a chat with a rep (Typos are all mine):

You: My primarly complaint is that i refuse to use clink and buy due to their reuputation, and i'm very much annoyed at having to buy crysta in 500 increments instead of the exact amount. Is there plans to offer exact amounts or will we be forced to over pay every month? If so, where can i officaly complain?
You: er... Click and buy. Not clink.
Agent Robert P: I apologize but those are the available payment methods for FINAL FANTASY XI. Any unused Crysta can be used for future payments, but at this time it is not possible to purchase Crysta in the amount you requested.
Agent Robert P: You can submit Feedback on the SQUARE ENIX Support Center, select FFXI to bring up the FFXI support page, then go to Contact at the top.
You: So then it's a choice between a shady company, and being forced to over pay. Great. Whats the likleyhood my complaint will actually get any feedback?
Agent Robert P: All Feedback submissions are reviewed, but there are no responses.
You: What is the likelyhood about having specific crysta amounts added if there was suffcent demand?
Agent Robert P: If any changes are planned then an update will likely be posted in the news section of Account Management and on PlayOnline.com
You: Hm. Well that concludes my questions. I can't say I'm happy about the answers and that the company has probably just lost itself a customer.
You: Thank you for your time. You may consider the ticket resolved.
Agent Robert P: Thank you for visiting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center! Take care and hope to see you online!

In short: Complain. Off the main POL page hit services and support (left side midish way down.) Then go to Contact at the top, and select feedback.
They *might* then add a specific amount if enough people complain, and or quit.

I myself plan to let my account lapse until they add specific payments or add non scummy CC vendors.

[Byrth]

/signed

What SE needs to realise is that a large number of players only keep their direct debit going out of habit. They might only log in a few times a month (like me) or use XI as a chatroom at this point, and these sorts of players are unlikely to bother paying any more if they have to remember to do it manually. This isn't even taking into account the cumbersome nature of the new system or the fact that Crysta is a blatantly cynical money-grab.

I know for a fact that if the billing system wasn't automated then I would have paid significantly less in subscription fees over the last year, so I'm fairly sure they won't be getting much money off me at all through 2011/12.

I don't know if they realize what a huge part of the population (and a huge part of their pure profit) people like waffles are. They essentially pay for a service that they don't use, and they'd keep paying for it if it wasn't for SE basically canceling their accounts for them.

[mistmonster]

/signed

What SE needs to realise is that a large number of players only keep their direct debit going out of habit. They might only log in a few times a month (like me) or use XI as a chatroom at this point, and these sorts of players are unlikely to bother paying any more if they have to remember to do it manually. This isn't even taking into account the cumbersome nature of the new system or the fact that Crysta is a blatantly cynical money-grab.

I know for a fact that if the billing system wasn't automated then I would have paid significantly less in subscription fees over the last year, so I'm fairly sure they won't be getting much money off me at all through 2011/12.


This is so true for me. I have been paying for friends accounts for years whether they used them or not. I'm not fussing with this every month, SE. That's like 4 accounts who never give you problems or barely even play.

[Karbuncle]

I think its wishful thinking to expect anything of Square at this point. Its almost painfully obvious they're trying to kill the game in hopes when FFXI dies we move on to their sinking ship FFXIV and make it more popular.

[Orlind]

On a sidenote, anyone thinking that Crysta was only ever used for FFXI and FFXIV and think that SE will refund you when FFXI goes down can put that idea right out your head.

It has already been used for products and services besides these two games in the past (the S-E Members from when Dissidia first arrived in the US can attest to that). Also, the products and services available for Crysta can (and probably will since more will use it now) grow before FFXI is ever shut down. IF S-E has any brains, they will branch out and the same thing will happen as with Halo 2 shutting down.

[Alukat]

I think its wishful thinking to expect anything of Square at this point. Its almost painfully obvious they're trying to kill the game in hopes when FFXI dies we move on to their sinking ship FFXIV and make it more popular.

i just said goodbye to all my friends and ls mates. i'll just come back if i can pay SE directly (or via pol again, never had issues with them in the last 5 years).

SE should have invested the money to make a remake of ffvii/viii or ix instead of developing a complete new game (aka ffxiv)

i always loved the battlesystem,materia-sytem and story in vii

[Rearden]

Here I come Battlefield 3, a game made by a real company with real support and you don't even have to pay them after you get the DVD's.

Good chance in a few months all that will be left are the JP PS2 players, and SE will finally have what they wanted - a playerbase they are actually unable to support.

[Coldbrand]

Why the Hell would you go with a business who already has a reputation for being crap?

[Orlind]

Why the Hell would you go with a business who already has a reputation for being crap?

ClickAndBuy probably offered S-E the best deal or conditions couldn't be met with other third party processors in a timely fashion.

[Karbuncle]

Why the Hell would you go with a business who already has a reputation for being crap?

So they have something in common?

[Coldbrand]

Yes, I get that SE sold us out. But that's pretty damn shadey to do I guess, I'd expect better is all.

[lllen]

I had no real problem with Click and Buy, but I did take 2 account set ups to work. the first account the two $1.xx amounts didn't match theirs, I was looking at my card statement, so we closed down that account and re did it and it worked. The two 1.xx's were credited to my click and buy account, so I didn't loose it and the crazy debits for the first account was credited back to my card. Then I bought $20 worth of crysta and all seems well.

Play span is easy set up, or so I thought, I wanted to originally used PayPal, have not had problems with paypal in years. But I found out after 3 flubbed up tried (60.00 beheld on my card for 5 days now), Playspan won't let you use Paypal unless your Paypal is verified with a bank account, unfortunately my isn't anymore after i closed out my account. So things got hairy Playspan can't do anything to release my holds, the bank won't release the hold prior to the 7th day (which is how long they hold items )

[Orlind]

Yes, I get that SE sold us out. But that's pretty damn shadey to do I guess, I'd expect better is all.

Honestly, I think we all expected better from S-E. With the coming of FFXIV, we thought they had learned from their mistakes with XI's launch. Same goes with the headaches with funding FFXIV (well, when that was necessary of course).

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some shining beacons still working with S-E. Unfortunately, like Capcom at times, they get overshadowed and overruled by others that don't know what they're doing most of the time.

[Ramsos]

This is a terrible idea, hopefully SE wakes up before they lose 1/2 the ffxi playerbase.

[Byrth]

Honestly, I think we all expected better from S-E. With the coming of FFXIV, we thought they had learned from their mistakes with XI's launch. Same goes with the headaches with funding FFXIV (well, when that was necessary of course).

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some shining beacons still working with S-E. Unfortunately, like Capcom at times, they get overshadowed and overruled by others that don't know what they're doing most of the time.

Learned from their mistakes? 20 minutes in FFXIV would have shown you that they didn't even learn from their successes.

[lllen]

At least I won't be loosing more than 5 cents a month, my account is 15.95, they use $16.00 of crysta, leaves me with $4. for the next month

[Alukat]

if you're accepting it nothing will change, if u don't accept and take a break from the game to state: "i don't play it if u dont change the method of payment" u are putting them into a position where they have to act, it's their money.

[Romanova]

if you're accepting it nothing will change, if u don't accept and take a break from the game to state: "i don't play it if u dont change the method of payment" u are putting them into a position where they have to act, it's their money.

sadly, this is said often and nothing ever changes because not enough people follow it. I have a bunch of crysta as is because when 14 came out I thought you had to buy it during the trial in order to play.

More than likely I'm going to use as much as I can from that crysta, then just quit and wait for KotOR. I fully expect that if/when I come back everything will be the same. SE never learns.

[Orlind]

Learned from their mistakes? 20 minutes in FFXIV would have shown you that they didn't even learn from their successes.

Yeah, we all know what happened after we got our hands on it. However, I was talking about what was expected just after the annoucement and before we were able to play it.

Back on topic, with these revised payment options, I may be forced to quit the game which I always thought would happen either when FFXI shut down or I got bored. S-E as a company has already gone from "must-buys" to "rent first" to "only buy used months or years later" and this has made it worse.

[Zatias]

I guess I will be quitting prematurely.

Damn it, I really wanted to finish my best friend's Calabolg and my bf's 90 Kannagi.

[Finuve]

sadly, this is said often and nothing ever changes because not enough people follow it. I have a bunch of crysta as is because when 14 came out I thought you had to buy it during the trial in order to play.

More than likely I'm going to use as much as I can from that crysta, then just quit and wait for KotOR. I fully expect that if/when I come back everything will be the same. SE never learns.Ive played the TOR beta, if you were a big fan of KOTOR 1 and 2, prepare to be extremely disappointed

[Alukat]

how about age of conan? is anyone playing this? just saw that its free to play with some restrictions in content.

[Orlind]

Ive played the TOR beta, if you were a big fan of KOTOR 1 and 2, prepare to be extremely disappointed

I've been hearing this from others playing the beta as well. Seeing as how you're playing it, can you fill me in what things have disappointed you? I am also looking at playing it or SMT: Imagine again since I may be off FFXI for a month (which may turn into forever since I have other things to amuse me).

[Alhanelem]

SE's probably the first company i've ever heard of that seems to like making it as difficult to pay them as possible.

[Laphine]

Well, i didn't know about the bad reputation of ClickandBuy. I set the thing up indiscriminately. I'm from Brazil and, no surprise, i can't buy crysta. Looks like i'm screwed, and will have to pay the extra fee if i wanna play the game.

[Finuve]

I've been hearing this from others playing the beta as well. Seeing as how you're playing it, can you fill me in what things have disappointed you? I am also looking at playing it or SMT: Imagine again since I may be off FFXI for a month (which may turn into forever since I have other things to amuse me).
if u have heard someone say "WoW with lightsabers" its pretty accurate, not to mention the graphics and animations are horrible (graphics arent as important to me in an MMO but animations are a huge deal (also something that FFXIV is pretty incredible at)) and the world design is small unimmersive and boring

on the plus side having a fully voiced and controllable story in an MMO was impressive, having my own character speak while still being truly mine was cool (ala mass effect of course)

[Mightyg]

Just throwing in my support here, not only should they come up with a better option for billing, they really need to streamline the processes, I can't imagine any sane person that's curious to play FFXI or FFXIV getting through this entire process of signing up with obscure billing service, creating accounts, etc and not giving up before they actually get into the game.

[Muse]

People are also forgetting that during some months we will have to pay twice. The service charge is now going to be every 30 days. So on some months you'll pay twice and this will also make your FFXI payment jump about in the month. This translates into 13 payments instead of 12. So this WILL make SE more money...

I have been playing since '05 and I like THE CURRENT PAYMENT SYSTEM. There's no third party to go through, no item to buy to play. You just pay and go. This will end up with SE losing money and those quarterly reports they are hoping to make look good will look worse. They're killing themselves now.



Q: Will this change affect PlayStation2 and Xbox 360 users or is this only for PC users?

A: The transfer will apply to customers on all platforms.

Note... I know it's 2011 and that almost everybody has access to a computer. But those PS2 users and XBOX360 players will HAVE TO TRANSFER TOO. Which only makes this whole transfer idea even more stupid.

[Byrth]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding, you pay for 4.25 more days of service per year. You actually end up paying less if you deactivate and go on vacation for a week, which wasn't an option in the old system. Still, it's 10 times the pain and you pay everything in advance instead of paying as you go.

[slakyak]

This is pants.

Can't get through the ClickandBuy site anyway, it keeps going blank after my details go in... /sigh... Was it broken before???????

[Muse]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding, you pay for 4.25 more days of service per year. You actually end up paying less if you deactivate and go on vacation for a week, which wasn't an option in the old system. Still, it's 10 times the pain and you pay everything in advance instead of paying as you go.

If you let your subscription go out (don't re-up by the 30th day) and then go on vacation. Yes you could pay less during the year. But if you say start an account on Jan 1st and keep re-up'ing you'll have paid 13 times. Now with current date it shouldn't be unbalanced... Although I'm thinking we'll be paying extra somehow (not including the service charge SE SAYS you'll get.)

[Alukat]

Note... I know it's 2011 and that almost everybody has access to a computer. But those PS2 users and XBOX360 players will HAVE TO TRANSFER TOO. Which only makes this whole transfer idea even more stupid.

now they are getting rid of the ps2 limitations xD

[Malamasala]

if you're accepting it nothing will change, if u don't accept and take a break from the game to state: "i don't play it if u dont change the method of payment" u are putting them into a position where they have to act, it's their money.

The problem is that us social people will feel the need to keep paying and playing with our LSes. For some reason saying "I'll be gone X months while SE fixes the billing system" sound like it won't be that appreciated.

[Khiinroye]

Well, with a JP account, if you can get an address input, you can convert WebMoney to Crysta in any amount. I just put my 769 WebMoney points over to 769 Crysta. WebMoney can be used for a lot more things that Crysta, so you can convert exactly. Still a pain in the ass, and I don't have enough to reactivate my account.

So JP accounts can buy Crysta in however much they need, while NA / EU are stuck with preset amounts that give SE extra money. Good game.

[Finuve]

So JP accounts can buy Crysta in however much they need, while NA / EU are stuck with preset amounts that give SE extra money. Good game.wow..................

[InfamousDS]

I've already planned to sever all ties by the end of August. I love FFXI and I miss it when I don't play. But the honest truth is I only log on a few hours a day and money is a legit issue for me now. It was fun everyone, but let's all give our fond farewells. Too many hoops, too much hassle, not enough gain. Hope Square is reading this thread.

My bucket list on FFXI is as thus:
See the ending of every major expansion story, or at least get as far as I can. (So far soloed up to AU38).
Nyzul Weaponskill for DNC, I just wanna make one self-darkness in my career on that job.
Floor 100 Nyzul Isle, Runic Key seems nice.
Farm Maps for the areas I haven't yet, useless since I'm quitting, but it gives me a task.
If Mythic WS is a total loss for getting, make a Daka+2/Twashtar and use Rudra instead.

Goodbye guys. I'm prolly not quitting the forums and it'll still be a month before I'm gone, but this seems like the best place to say it.

Edit: I know that Sekkanoki-> Evisceration-> Meditate-> Dancing Edge-> Reverse Flourish-> Evisceration = Darkness. But that is a LOT of steps.

[Romanova]

So JP accounts can buy Crysta in however much they need, while NA / EU are stuck with preset amounts that give SE extra money. Good game.

Oh man, LOL gg SE gg.

[Unleashhell]

I sense another server merge in 3-4 months.

Thanks SE for the 8+ years of FFXI. It was fun.

[shigen]

Registered just to post dissatisfaction with this policy. I have cancelled my content IDs and no longer wish to support SE's business.

[Laphine]

Well, i didn't know about the bad reputation of ClickandBuy. I set the thing up indiscriminately. I'm from Brazil and, no surprise, i can't buy crysta. Looks like i'm screwed, and will have to pay the extra fee if i wanna play the game.
nvm lol. Click and Buy will actually benefit me. I already pay a tax for all Dollar transactions, and if they turn it to BRL, in theory, i won't have to pay this bs~ (that is higher than their 5.9% currency exchange)

Pay pal would have been much better though hehe.

[MAXWINTER]

After learning how click an buy works i realised it was not a good option so glad i learnt that through ff14 and now went straight for crysta via paypal.
Still it sucks that im now paying alot more than i was before.
hopefully they can add better option like paying exact ammount instead this crysta stuff , it the xbox live way of doing things and it not great.

[Muras]

Also posting saying I really hate this system. Can't use my credit card without using Click and Buy, and can't buy Crysta without using... Click or Buy.

I already have my characters canceled because I don't expect this to change within a week or two... Or month... Or maybe ever. When it comes down to it, FF11 is just a game, and I can live without it if I'm forced to go with companies I don't trust and never heard of until now.

I dunno if anyone else has researched how Click and Buy works since I haven't read the entire thread, but since SE is likely going to be charging in US dollars, you'll get charged an extra 5.9% for the currency conversion (Which is applied after the conversion). So this applies if you're Canadian and paying for the game with a credit card that by default uses Canadian Dollars. And like others have mentioned, you're getting charged 13 times a year, not 12 now. So for me, I'm at LEAST paying an extra 5.9%. Even more with Crysta since that 5.9% still applies but I can't get the extact amount of Crysta (Just 1395 crysta would cover the fee, but I'd be stuck going with 1500). This is all assuming SE will charge me in US dollars, but I'm pretty confident they will since that's what they've done up until now.

(Also just for fun: Go to Google and type in "click and buy" in the search box. See the second most searched term? Yeeaaah... Sounds like people are liking this service)

But hey, I'll keep an eye on things and come back if they make a system that makes sense and doesn't screw over the user. Until then though, guess I'm saving $13.95+ a month.

[Leonlionheart]

SE you need to stop screwing the players over.

[Panthera]

While they are terrible at customer support, they sure know how to make money.

Have you heard about their stocks?

[slakyak]

Just a point of interest I guess... Starcraft II uses ClickandBuy.

[Dauntless]

If they see this outcry and change the system (unlikely) then there won't be an issue. Otherwise, I'm thinking I'm 'bout done with this.

[Romanova]

Just a point of interest I guess... Starcraft II uses ClickandBuy.

It's not even close to being the only method though.

[slakyak]

It's not even close to being the only method though.

Figured as much -.-

[Romanova]

Figured as much -.-

Ya to clarify, I believe paypal can't be accessed in all countries, so some games (especially ones like Starcraft that are popular in a lot of countries that don't have paypal) will give access to clickandbuy which is a European site.

But they just allow it as another type of payment method, not force it or try to make it the primary method.

[Laphine]

Is 30 days deal so bad? I think it's much easier to cancel and reactivate the account like this. You take a break and when you return the $12.95 or whatever you pay will mean 30 days. This was not the case before. If you returned mid month your money would only value 15 days.

What is really left (i don't know if it currently works like this) is if we cancel the IDs to take a break we can still keep whatever amount of days left as credit for when we return. That would make it perfect. I'm very fond of quick breaks.

[Tiberius]

Hate to say it, but this just may drive me away from the game. There's no reason why billing should be so tedious. Crysta looks like a complete scam too.

Silver lining though: it'll make room for the Autumn rush of games that interest me.

[Muse]

Is 30 days deal so bad? I think it's much easier to cancel and reactivate the account like this. You take a break and when you return the $12.95 or whatever you pay will mean 30 days. This was not the case before. If you returned mid month your money would only value 15 days.

What is really left (i don't know if it currently works like this) is if we cancel the IDs to take a break we can still keep whatever amount of days left as credit for when we return. That would make it perfect. I'm very fond of quick breaks.

I think that once you pay for 30 days, it only lasts 30 days. I mean 30 days and not 30 play time days...

Edit: Also if you set up recocurring payments with SE they charge you an extra $1.00. It's in their new ToS too.

[Niyariko]

This is so depressing, I just found out that for the Japanese players can still pay directly to SE via CC (http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/imgs/img08.jpg), just like what we used to now.... this is a good way to make FFXI JP only, since all your NA/EU players will now be quitting, and nice way to save Japan's electricity crisis in helping the recovery of 311 earthquake by cutting all international internet connection to your FFXI servers.

[Vazerus]

Just posting in this thread to agree, the whole situation is pretty awful. I left my feelings on the matter as feedback in the service&support section of SE's website. I urge everyone else to do the same.

I don't wish to use clickandbuy, and I don't wish to purchase "Crysta" since I don't like overpaying, nor do I want to feel like I should keep playing just to minimize losses by purchasing Crysta. I know saying this won't matter, but $12.95/month or gtfo, SE.

Square Enix, why is it so hard to give you my money?

[Muse]

This is so depressing, I just found out that for the Japanese players can still pay directly to SE via CC (http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/imgs/img08.jpg), just like what we used to now.... this is a good way to make FFXI JP only, since all your NA/EU players are now be quitting, and nice way to save Japan's electricity in helping the recovery of 311 earthquake by cutting all international internet connection to your FFXI servers.

WTF is that? SE is saying JP ONRY now? Bravo SE...

[Karbuncle]

This is so depressing, I just found out that for the Japanese players can still pay directly to SE via CC (http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/imgs/img08.jpg), just like what we used to now.... this is a good way to make FFXI JP only, since all your NA/EU players are now quitting, and nice way to save Japan's electricity crisis in helping the recovery of 311 earthquake by cutting all international internet connection to your FFXI servers.

Can't speak JP so i can't verify this but if thats true.... JP can pay exact Crysta (mentioned last page) and they can also continue to pay directly with a CC, and no one else can...?

This is just unacceptable...

[Leonlionheart]

I can't believe SE continues to fumble with simple customer service principles.

SE Protip: People like to have the freedom to spend their money how they want.

You're making money either way, why not make more options?

[Romanova]

This is so depressing, I just found out that for the Japanese players can still pay directly to SE via CC (http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/imgs/img08.jpg), just like what we used to now.... this is a good way to make FFXI JP only, since all your NA/EU players will now be quitting, and nice way to save Japan's electricity crisis in helping the recovery of 311 earthquake by cutting all international internet connection to your FFXI servers.


Terrible, just terrible.

[Unleashhell]

At least November isn't far off for when Elder Scrolls comes out :)

[Vivik]

This is so depressing, I just found out that for the Japanese players can still pay directly to SE via CC (http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/imgs/img08.jpg), just like what we used to now.... this is a good way to make FFXI JP only, since all your NA/EU players will now be quitting, and nice way to save Japan's electricity crisis in helping the recovery of 311 earthquake by cutting all international internet connection to your FFXI servers.

SE must be taking "How to lose customers 101"

[Charismatic]

SE you need to stop screwing the players over.

They aren't screwing over their Japanese base so I'm sure they are satisfied.
Anyway, I'm out. I already barely ever log on... they sure as hell are giving me less and less reason to do so as time goes on.
I refuse to jump through hoops to pay for two accounts on a game I log onto once every blue moon.

[Komori]

I've already planned to sever all ties by the end of August. I love FFXI and I miss it when I don't play. But the honest truth is I only log on a few hours a day and money is a legit issue for me now. It was fun everyone, but let's all give our fond farewells. Too many hoops, too much hassle, not enough gain. Hope Square is reading this thread.

My bucket list on FFXI is as thus:
See the ending of every major expansion story, or at least get as far as I can. (So far soloed up to AU38).
Nyzul Weaponskill for DNC, I just wanna make one self-darkness in my career on that job.
Floor 100 Nyzul Isle, Runic Key seems nice.
Farm Maps for the areas I haven't yet, useless since I'm quitting, but it gives me a task.
If Mythic WS is a total loss for getting, make a Daka+2/Twashtar and use Rudra instead.

Goodbye guys. I'm prolly not quitting the forums and it'll still be a month before I'm gone, but this seems like the best place to say it.

Edit: I know that Sekkanoki-> Evisceration-> Meditate-> Dancing Edge-> Reverse Flourish-> Evisceration = Darkness. But that is a LOT of steps.

This, I hardly play anymore and was about to level up a new job and play more often with friends cause I could get more stuff done. But they can say good-bye to my money every month.

I am not going to go through the hassle of buying these "points" every month. And have too many money issues to buy in bulk and keep going. Bye.

[Zumi]

You don't have to use Click and Buy if you pick Crysta as your payment method. Then you can just use UltimatePay to buy Crysta and pay with PayPal.

[Zumi]

SE must be taking "How to lose customers 101"

SE knows how very few Credit/Debit cards use VbV or MC Securecard in the US but they are required to have it in Japan probably why they are not offering it in the US.

[Komori]

That's still setting up accounts and having to do multitudes of things that are just plain stupid to be able to play a game from time to time. They can just lose any money I would have given them.

[Vivik]

SE knows how very few Credit/Debit cards use VbV or MC Securecard in the US but they are required to have it in Japan probably why they are not offering it in the US.

and if they kept the current system people would not have a problem. The issue (if you bothered even to read the thread) is not just click and buy. Do yourself a favor and read a thread before you reply to it.

[Zumi]

I read the first couple posts but your kidding yourself if anyone is going to sit there and read all 19 pages.

Its true most US cards don't have 3d secure and people got around it by registering their non 3d secure cards on a PS2 or a Xbox360 due to SEs bad phone service.

[Vivik]

I did, reading is hard mkay?

[Muse]

I read the first couple posts but your kidding yourself if anyone is going to sit there and read all 19 pages.

I read all 19 pages before replying >.>

[Dooom]

Just a point of interest I guess... Starcraft II uses ClickandBuy.

What for? Last I knew, SC2 was free to play once you purchased the game, and I see nothing on the SC2 site saying you need to pay to play.

Regarding JP payments, if it's true that they can pick exact Crysta amounts and pay directly by card, whereas the rest of us are stuck buying excess Crysta and dealing with third parties, then that's just terrible. If it's true then I'll be quitting, and finding another MMO to play which doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off and abused.

[Cream_Soda]

in before lock

[Zumi]

Anyway Crysta reminds me of Xbox live points in that, you will always be paying more and have extra balance. I can recall MS getting sued for it but I doubt they won.

[Zumi]

What for? Last I knew, SC2 was free to play once you purchased the game, and I see nothing on the SC2 site saying you need to pay to play.

Regarding JP payments, if it's true that they can pick exact Crysta amounts and pay directly by card, whereas the rest of us are stuck buying excess Crysta and dealing with third parties, then that's just terrible. If it's true then I'll be quitting, and finding another MMO to play which doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off and abused.

Pretty sure Blizzard charges monthly fees for SC2 in some countries but I don't remember which off the top of my head.

[Komori]

I read all 19 pages before replying >.>

So did I. And I don't like reading. I would have accepted a higher subscription fee than this.

[Orson]

Pretty sure Blizzard charges monthly fees for SC2 in some countries but I don't remember which off the top of my head.

A friend of a friend tell you that?

[Tacotaru]

The system is already in place for the JPs, just give it to us for Christ's sake. This is beyond ridiculous if they actually allow JP's as the only region to continue to use the current payment system.

[Zumi]

A friend of a friend tell you that?

No its true go ahead google it if you don't believe me.

Edit: just went and googled it myself, Russia, Brazil, Latin America most of Asia have monthly fees for SC2.

[Dooom]

No its true go ahead google it if you don't believe me.

Russia only it seems, but they get the game at a discounted price to begin with. Can't find info on payment methods. It's all an aside though from the issue at hand here.

[Korpg]

Nice knowing you guys.

[Dijana]

Im bad, Im not reading all these 19 pages (got to 6 and seeing the same thing over and over) but its titled 'petition' so Im just adding my 2cents if something like this wasnt already said. The whole crysta scenario seemed stupidly complicated just to play a game and too much of a hassle. But considering clickandbuy as the only alternative my whole ls is signing up for crysta.

Here's my problem though. Crysta isnt available in my country. So my single option to keep playing this game is registering with clickandbuy, which from everything I've heard I really dont want to do. And after reading about people getting their cards frozen and having this option blocked to them, if the same thing happens to me (or any other player from a country crysta isnt available to) well then we're screwed.

[Aurara]

This is ridiculous, and unfair. Why are they privileged to not deal with this and we have to?

[Dragoy]

I read the first couple posts but your kidding yourself if anyone is going to sit there and read all 19 pages.
It's only at page 5 for me...
Okay, okay... I might have 40 posts per page going on but yeah, there's a lot more in this than just ClapandBye. ^^;


The system is already in place for the JPs, just give it to us for Christ's sake. This is beyond ridiculous if they actually allow JP's as the only region to continue to use the current payment system.
I think they meant that they have the option with the new, Square Enix Account system, not 'retaining the old one'.
I think.

And that said, they are likely planning to introduce it, or something similar to the rest of us in due time.
It could be in testing already! Or not...
Well, at least one can always hope for it.


But as it is now, it really might be the last month for me too.
I sometimes do not log in for days now, but still have always been paying the full price, and I know many others who are the same.


It's sad but true.

[Selamis]

Anyway Crysta reminds me of Xbox live points in that, you will always be paying more and have extra balance. I can recall MS getting sued for it but I doubt they won.

Except that you buy the MS points directly from Microsoft and don't have to go through multiple steps to do so, like SE is doing with Crysta. MS is a simple click, add points, select card to use and hit done. And you don't need them to play games, you just need them if you want addons or bonus content, where as with Crysta you need it to even play FFXI. Bad system is bad.

Add to that, the screen shot from the Japanese forums and this is a major slap in the face to everyone else, and is unacceptable. We should demand a mod contact someone from SE and demand why they can pay directly but we can't.

[Zumi]

SE really needs to hire someone to go in and fix the terminology on their SE account site. When you see stuff like "Automatically Continued Options" makes you think "What the hell does this even mean?"

[laos278]

I can understand doing this for a brand new game, but a game where ppl have been playing N years and are used to auto billing, I really don't get it. For those that are paying for 2-3 accounts are they going to bother buying surplus crysta on all of them each month? For those with a single account are they going to bother? Probably not if they were using XI as a glorified AIM or just logging on rarely but didn't bother to cancel. Or if they don't have or rarely use paypal. I now question if SE understands the reasons many players continue paying for their product. They should have really like...asked us...before implementing this. This seems like moreso than any single issue in the past, yes including salvage bans, it has the potential to really dwindle the player base. I don't know if it will or not, but look at the feedback on various forums. As someone with an actual 3d verified CC, it really is annoying, particularly when japanese customers apparently can continue paying with CC or buy crysta in any amount they please. It makes me wonder does SE even want their other customers. There has always been favoritism in game but for that to extend to billing... I understand about non verified CC and chargebacks and the expense of a billing department, all of that, but why should i be put thru this when i've never had an issue with the CC? There should be an option to continue auto paying with CC each month, as we were led to believe would be the case.

[Laphine]

No its true go ahead google it if you don't believe me.

Edit: just went and googled it myself, Russia, Brazil, Latin America most of Asia have monthly fees for SC2.

Idk about SC2, but on WoW they will soon start a monthly fee here. And cheaper than US one lol. 15 BRL which should be around 9.0 USD with some taxes to it.

[Joslyn]

So here's a quick question can you call SE directly and give them your cc info to apply to account so as to avoid the C&B and crysta fiasco?

[Niyariko]

So here's a quick question can you call SE directly and give them your cc info to apply to account so as to avoid the C&B and crysta fiasco?

I guess no, SE won't accept any direct payment (unless you have a JP account), just crysta or click&buy, thats the problem...

[Swords]

Tbh I think there's alot going on with SE and PoL at the moment, and I can think of two scenarios that might be the cause.

Scenario one: The contractual agreement between SE and PoL has almost ended, and SE has chosen not to renew it.

Scenario two: The lack of development and popularity of PoL, has put PoL in financial turmoil where FFXI is their only staple and they face likelihood of disbandment or bankruptcy.

In either scenario I think SE is trying to brace itself for the change, and considering we were given such short notice, SE more than likely was caught off-guard and went with the setup they already had ready. No telling if SE had or has had plans to offer more 3rd party pay support options, but for all we know they may have put those efforts on hold till they got the kinks worked out of FFXIV and it would no longer be free..

[Malacite]

While I will miss the current billing system (as it's very simple and direct) it's not the end of the world.


My advice - use Ultimate Pay or whatever, because they allow PayPal.

[Charismatic]

While I will miss the current billing system (as it's very simple and direct) it's not the end of the world.

It is for my characters.

[Joslyn]

Ok with the ultimate pay is there a specific card you purchase?

[Puck]

Tbh I think there's alot going on with SE and PoL at the moment, and I can think of two scenarios that might be the cause.

Scenario one: The contractual agreement between SE and PoL has almost ended, and SE has chosen not to renew it.

Scenario two: The lack of development and popularity of PoL, has put PoL in financial turmoil where FFXI is their only staple and they face likelihood of disbandment or bankruptcy.

Uh what? What planet do you live on? SE and POL are not too distinct entities. POL is an interface and account management system created and wholly owned by SE. POL is not a company. Seriously, WTF?

[Dragoy]

Ok with the ultimate pay is there a specific card you purchase?
They offer quite a large variety of payment methods (over 85 it would seem), PayPal being one of the many, and it works via PlaySpan, Inc..

[Ardiem]

As it stands, unless SE rethinks these payment options, August 31st is my last day playing FFXI.

Over the years I've put up with a lot of SE's quirks. These new charge options are simply too much hassel. I'm sure I can find another company far more eager and willing to take my money.

[Andreja]

If we don't get the option to buy the exact amount of crysta we need or pay directly to SE as before, I'm done with the game. Sorry SE but you screwed up majorly with this transfer stuff.

[kewitt]

I didn't like the clickandbuy option for FFXIV, I signed up for it but never used it as FFXIV went free to play till fixed. Then later cancelled my clickandbuy account.

If these are the only options, It maybe time for my hubby and I to look for a new form of entertainment.

I like to only deal with the company I am getting the end product from and not dealing with middle men. That way if I have a problem with my payment I take it up with SE not clickandbuy.


Why do these fees exist?

As an online payment system, ClickandBuy gives you the ability to shop securely and conveniently in the Internet. In certain circumstances, ClickandBuy charges you fees for those services that are connected with a risk or additional costs to ClickandBuy, such as the risk of non-payment.

You may use fee-based services like funding with credit card, but you are not required to do so. However, many of these services are very convenient and allow flexible Internet shopping. If you want to take advantage of these services and fees are required, we show you clearly the amount and type of the fees before you confirm your purchase. This leaves it completely up to you to decide if our service is worth the fees.

Of course, most of the services offered by ClickandBuy are available at no charge.

When do the fees have to be paid?

Here is a breakdown of all fees that can be incurred when using our special services. Fees are charged according to our Fee table.

Risk premium for payments via credit card
Depositing money on your ClickandBuy account using a credit card is associated with greater risk for ClickandBuy. For this reason, we add a risk premium of 3,9 % to the value of the transaction.
Payouts to a bank account
If you want to withdraw your emoney to your private bank account our transaction costs need to be covered by charging a withdrawal fee.
Maintenance fee for inactive accounts
When your account has been inactive for more than 12 months and contains valid funds we need to charge a monthly maintenance fee. If you do not wish to be charged a fee you can reactivate your account by performing a purchase, funding or a withdrawal.
Cost sharing for chargebacks
When a transaction cannot be concluded because payment cannot be recovered, ClickandBuy charges you a cost-sharing fee of 25,00 EUR. This amount is calculated based on the expenses that accrue to both ClickandBuy and the bank involved when a chargeback occurs.

[Meyi]

Dear SE,

We love your game. We hate your business. Please fix this.

Sincerely,
Your Loyal Fans

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I was already considering going the UltimatePay route because I find it distasteful to set up yet another account somewhere (I've got enough passwords), and I find the idea of paying by cash appealing as it gets me away from plastic.

But now that I look at the process of adding funds... and I discover that UltimatePay wants my email address, even after being paid cold hard cash for their card. In the real world, this means they want to spam me.

So now... I'm probably going to run out the clock on this transfer thing, see if things change in four weeks. And if I do end up going for this UltimatePay system, the email address they'll be getting is my pol.com email address. If Square-Enix wants people to spam me, that spam is going through their own mail servers.

And add me to the list of people that finds giving Japanese customers more/better payment options real classy.

[Chriscoffey]

I am not sure what i do at this point. I think allowing Japanese players options we don't have after so many years is quite literally idiotic to say the least. I may finally quit FFXI after several years of playing due to this ignorance. I think after they made mistakes with FF14 being so stupid they couldn't mess up anything else... yet i was wrong.

[Artoriusrex]

i would really like to see a MOD reply to this thread as i notice that they have been very mute on this subject and when the soon to be im sure forever regretted by SE move to clickandbuy was brought up in the thread about forgetting to load crysta the mod who was replying promptly stopped also, come on SE give us feedback on a. why the JP players get both better and more options than we do. b. why you make non JPs only have the crysta and clickandbuy options both of which in essence force all but JP players to pay more money for a service which is supposed to be globally the same.

[Atomic_Skull]

You don't have to use Click and Buy if you pick Crysta as your payment method. Then you can just use UltimatePay to buy Crysta and pay with PayPal.

I have three accounts with 16 characters each. That means that I have to buy $84 worth of Crysta multiplied by several months. I guess I could just buy every 30 days but I have the memory of a goldfish and I know I'll forget, especially when the bill no longer comes due on the 1'st of the month.

[Gotterdammerung]

The solution is a boycott =)

Just take a month break off if you HATE this new payment bullcrap.

Let them panic when there population drops by 80%

[Babygyrl]

Wow.. What in the world is Square thinking with this?/ Why is this so complicated!? I want an explanation on WHY auto bill pay is being removed for everyone but JPs.. Hey mods how bout getting us some answers.. WHAT are they thinking...

[Cylla]

What is it that SE can't get or understand? Blizzard, NCsoft, all them allow their player base to pay with any type of credit card (3-D or not) with no hassle. Not only that, they allow their players to pay for months a head of time at a discount price. SE fails to do and allow both! Hell, for these who pay for more then one account are having to pay 10x more then what we are now if we went the crysta way. We go with ClickandScam, we take the risk of getting screwed over. Where the win in this?

I don't know if this is just SE way of being lazy and not having to deal with billing as much or if they just truly are this stupid and can't catch up on the times.

Whatever it is, grats to SE for losing about half their player base due to it.

And I agree with Artoriusrex, I would really love to see a MOD reply to this outrage. However, you know what? It not going to happen. When has SE ever cared about it player base being unhappy with the way they handle things? When the whole 3-D secure thing kicked in and many players were forced to quit because their banks didn't do it, did SE care one bit? No, they kept it in place and went about their way not caring about the handful of players they pushed out the door who could no longer pay for their account unless they had an Xbox, PS2 or used the adblock cheat (that is until SE fixed that and stopped PC users from doing that). No, no matter how upset and how many people quit, they won't reply to this and they won't change a thing. That my faith in SE.

I have a feeling I'll be done also and that upsetting after I just came back from a 2 year break and started over again....

[Andreja]

The solution is a boycott =)

Just take a month break off if you HATE this new payment bullcrap.

Let them panic when there population drops by 80%

Yep pretty much doing that for eternity as long as this system is in place. I logged off the game as soon as I learned all about this crap.

[Sekundes]

Perhaps I'm spoiled from other systems but... I don't even find the old method to be satisfactory. This new method... I feel is going to have some major negative impacts.

I was excited to hear about POL being "replaced" but it was not in the way I thought, this is simply retarded.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Does anybody know if Canadian players will be zapped by ClickandBuy for a currency conversion fee?

[Unaisis]

SE really messed up this time.... i dont feel like reactivating in September now lol... unless they fix this heaping nutty brown pile of bull patties by then. Why cant we just buy from SE Directly? O.o

1299
100
100
100

=1599

Purchase 1599 Crysta?

Options:

Credit card
Paypal

Continuous payment?

Yes
No

[Gotterdammerung]

The part i can't understand is SE claims this is all about security. When they first chose to switch to 3-D security it hurt a lot of people, in the name of security. BUT i never even heard of normal credit cards getting stolen. And banks at that time alredy had systems in play for canceling fraudulent charges. So it seemed unnecessary. Especially since it forced lots of players to miss months of playtime as they sought new acceptable payment methods( me uncluded, and still angry about it)
And forced other players to have to quit the game entirely due to a complete lack of payment options.

Now again we are told SECURITY!!!
Why isn't the first major inconvenience secure enuf?
Are the credit card eating boogey men digi-volving into super credit card eating boogey men?
Why isn't 3-d enuf?

THEN its laughable for you to claim THIS IS FOR SECURITY
when this new option FORCES me to get into bed with a shady company with bad customer service and a horrible reputation.
It's like your saying "We were scared a thief might rob your house so we hired this thief to keep an eye on your house. He has his own set of keys so you don't have to worry about letting him in."

I don't know what all this horse poo is about, but i really just don't believe it's about security.


Anyway, if i get any more personal glitches with these lame annoying systems, I will not jump through these asinine hoops again. This time if there is any problems at all i will quit.


P.S. Hey SE, I'm trying to PAY YOU MONEY? Why you making it so hard?

[Yarly]

don't like it? don't use it.

[Alukat]

don't like it? don't use it.

hmm isn't the "eat it or die"-mentality from like 16th century?

[Eeek]

Bad SE. You let Tanaka get close to FFXI again, didn't you?

Get him the hell away from your online games division. Transfer him to another city/continent if need be.

Ontopic: I will never do business with ClickAndBuy.

[Wagram]

Recently ended my sub because I require a much needed break from the game. Seriously, waayyyy too much empyrean weapon farming. However I can safely say that I will not be returning EVER if they continue to use this system.

It is too much of a hassle. It isn't convenient. I don't find it secure. Also why should I have to pay more then the Japanese?

Square. I love you as a company but you really need new management. Someone up there is a moron.

[Kitkat]

Have to say I'm not too pleased with this myself. I don't necessarily see the reason why SE is going this route and I'm a little leery of using the system due to all the negative feedback "Click and Buy" has over the web. My bank even wanted a direct contact with me before authorizing anything through Click and Buy because they thought it was a fraudulent transaction.

Sigh, even have people in the LS threatening to cut their losses and leave the game because of SE's decision to go this route.

[Manque]

http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/business-reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-dealers/clickandbuy-com-in-new-york-ny-94189/

Click and Buy gets an F from the better business bureau!

[Ramsos]

This is actually a clever ploy by SE to force people to use crysta and in doing so they make crysta somewhat legitimate since so many people will be using it. Think about it, what other reason could SE possibly have to make clickandbye the only way to direct pay? Everyone knows the bad reputation that clickandbye has, SE is counting on everyone going the crysta route instead. Eventually I see SE adding ingame items you can buy with crysta, making people familiar with crysta beforehand is a smart business move.

[Wagram]

Final Fantasy XI needs a letter from the producer like XIV does. This thread is probably not going to go anywhere. We aren't Japanese so they don't listen to us. :(

[Chriscoffey]

Yeah i read that. I honestly can't understand SE at this point. Squaresoft should have NEVER been merged with Enix with their business practices the past few years. I have always had anticipation for Square games before the merger because one could always expect a great game play.

This POST merger practice with games and customers have all but ruined SE with stupidity and arrogance that their customers can't just say goodbye. I do have a feeling IF they don't change this billing requirement with shady 3rd parties and Japanese still maintaining CC activity from POL there will be a huge falling out of SE yet again.

[Chriscoffey]

This is actually a clever ploy by SE to force people to use crysta and in doing so they make crysta somewhat legitimate since so many people will be using it. Think about it, what other reason could SE possibly have to make clickandbye the only way to direct pay? Everyone knows the bad reputation that clickandbye has, SE is counting on everyone going the crysta route instead. Eventually I see SE adding ingame items you can buy with crysta, making people familiar with crysta beforehand is a smart business move.

Hmmm Smart you say. They have a limited customer base of people like myself who have been here years or taking breaks. They add abyssea content to obtain more "casual" players to their listed game play. SE then goes and changes the entire billing payment plan that most everyone here hates with a passion BUT lets Japanese players pay the same way they always have and you think this is smart business? I would bet SE hires people like you for their business practices since it works SOOO well.

[Manque]

Why is it Japanese players are able to pay in exact amounts and we are not?!

[Ramsos]

Whoa hold on, I am not saying that I like these changes. I was simply stating my theory on why I think they are doing this. They are going about this all wrong and are probably gonna lose a majority of the playerbase, but their strategy would make sense if they allowed us to buy crysta like the JPs

[Muras]

Does anybody know if Canadian players will be zapped by ClickandBuy for a currency conversion fee?

If they charge in US dollars to the Click and Buy account you use a Canadian Credit card with, then yes you will be charged extra. It says on their website they charge an additional 5.9% AFTER the conversion.

[Vazerus]

I just used the only power a consumer has in issues like this; both my account and my girlfriend's account are now canceled.

SE won't listen to us, despite how much I would love them to, so I don't see how much good it would do to give them more money.

[Dauntless]

I just used the only power a consumer has in issues like this; both my account and my girlfriend's account are now canceled.

SE won't listen to us, despite how much I would love them to, so I don't see how much good it would do to give them more money.

Exactly what my brother and I just did.

[Hercule]

Just type "Click and buy scam" on google its interesting

Click and Buy = Mafia (Or Yakuza if you prefer!)

[Jackastheripper]

Yeah, if they leave click and buy as the only credit card option, I will be quitting as well. I am not falling for that crysta crap either. I would only do my online transactions through paypal because I have worked with them for all of my online transactions for years. No thanks click and buy and no thanks SE if this stays the only option. Looks like I will be going to Rift.

[Octaviane]

I doubt as many people will quit as has been said here. After all, a large number paid a total of $30 for all the new Abyssea content that promised a level cap of 99 and we all know that people will want to see how that works out. So does SE.

We don't know what SE was thinking when they made this less than bright decision to change how people pay. It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks as people try to accomodate SE's wishes.

Me, I am done anyway with FFXI, no more money from me SE.

[Dragoy]

The part i can't understand is SE claims this is all about security.
Oi!

Do not forget the 'user-friendliness' part!

They said added security and something about more user... friendly... things... but I can't remember where right now!
Yeah, I am having a hard time to see where the user-friendly part lies as well.

[Chamaan]

They're probably making us do this because they still expect people to play both 14 and 11 at the same time. If people don't remember they said there'd be a discount for FFXI if you had an account for both. The price for both together would come out to be 20 bucks even, perfectly round increments like they're forcing the non-JPs to buy, both paid for using the same service so they're not spending time trying to marry two billing systems together.

[Wagram]

I doubt as many people will quit as has been said here. After all, a large number paid a total of $30 for all the new Abyssea content that promised a level cap of 99 and we all know that people will want to see how that works out. So does SE.

We don't know what SE was thinking when they made this less than bright decision to change how people pay. It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks as people try to accomodate SE's wishes.

Me, I am done anyway with FFXI, no more money from me SE.

99 Cap will change nothing if there is no new content. At 90 content is already extremely easy. A 9 level increase will do nothing to change that except for make the game easier than it already is.

[Arawn]

I can't say I'm too thrilled with SE lately. That they're going to make us by crysta in excess or use a company that has an F with the BBB so that we can use our credit cards.

Its like they're trying to see how far their customer loyalty goes. I'm almost at my breaking point and I've been a fairly loyal customer for years.

I ask you, how much more are we supposed to take from you?

[wildsprite]

we asked if they would continue with the same payment methods as before, they made it sound like they would, perhaps they plan to add it...I hope they do, otherwise I feel like I been lied to

[Panthera]

Then just quit?

Its a sad conclusion to come to but according to your moral standard you have no choice.
Who was this directed at Karby?

[Insaniac]

SE has one month to fix this. I'm trying to decide if I want to bet on the long shot of them fixing it or just cancel now and save myself the subscription for August.

[Hercule]

I just find this 10min ago on a french FFXIV Forum, and its realy interesting about Click and Buy:


par kururu le 23 Septembre 2010, 21:21
Bonjour à tous!!

je voulais vous mettre en garde sur certains points du guide tarifaire de click&buy (le site bien relou tarifs en anglais (que j'ai réussi à trouver dans les conditions générales et bien plus complet qu'en français http://www.clickandbuy.com/FR_en/terms-and-conditions.html#c673) et avec des termes techniques de banque) :
- si vous avez un refus de paiement émis par votre banque (quelque soit le motif), click&buy vous taxe de 15€ pour frais + 7,50€ d'agios (25€ dans
- si vous voulez fermer votre compte click&buy rebelote, 15€ de frais
- si votre compte click... ne mouvemente pas pendant 1 an, taxe de 1€/mois

donc voilà moi perso je cherche un autre moyen, parce ce site sent l'aspirateur à billets à plein nez.

In short version and in English this mean:

-If your Original bank refuse a payement on a click and buy transaction you get 15€ + 7,5€ fee

-If you want to close your Click and Buy account its cost 15€ fee (Yeah but it was free to made it)

-If you dont use your Click and Buy account for more than 1 year you get 1€ fee per month then.

http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/terms-and-conditions.html