Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[Muse]

You posted while I was editing my post. lol...


Over 1000 posts now! Do we get a prize?

[Joslyn]

You posted while I was editing my post. lol...


Over 1000 posts now! Do we get a prize?

The only thing we get to do is continue the thread till it gets closed, thats our prize.. that and the continuing agony of not having the old way of paying.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

The only thing we get to do is continue the thread till it gets closed, thats our prize.. that and the continuing agony of not having the old way of paying.

I'm being pessimistically optimistic... I doubt that that SE will listen, I'm beginning to realize, deep down inside that they really don't give a flying fart... but I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong in the end. =/

[Niyariko]

I'm being pessimistically optimistic... I doubt that that SE will listen, I'm beginning to realize, deep down inside that they really don't give a flying fart... but I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong in the end. =/

If SE's decision of keeping C&B is more important that their customers, then I guess they really don't deserve to get paid.
And, loosing customers is really what they expect in the beginning.

[Malamasala]

It will be one of those "let it pass and see what happens" incidents. First they'll notice how many cave in and do the terrible options. Then they'll check how many can't stay away and re-register a month or two later. If things go bad, they'll just add another system around christmas.

[JovialRat]

I'm all for them adding new payment options to give people more choices, but they shouldn't also be taking away the one payment method we've been using for the last almost 10 years that people have been used to and that people are still ok with using (i've never had an issue with PoL billing my card, even during the july billing screw up). I would be "ok" with using crysta, except that i can't buy the ultimate game cards here for it, and i'm not comfortable buying it online. And I'm sure as hell not using clickandbuy...I live in Canada and i'm not about to start paying a 5.9% convertion fee now that I'm actually paying less per month since the Canadian dollar is higher than the US dollar.

wait wat, i'll be charge a 5.9% convertion feee? F that, i'll be cancelling my account then,

[Lalime]

I know they wanted to use the same system as ffxiv but could this be cause they promised click and buy certain amount of people to use their service? FFXIV never entered pay mode or click and buy loses out? or is their a contract regardless of how many that use it?

[Niyariko]

I was talking with a friend who have JP account, apparently, they do not even need to transfer their account even after Aug 31 and still be able to play (given that their credit card isn't expired anytime soon).

This is so unfair... I don't like SE anymore.

[Esvedium]

So not only are my wife and my accounts not being transferred over, and thus being canceled because SE won't give us a proper way to directly pay them like they still have for their JP player-base, but 2 friends that used to play that were going to come back next month have decided to not come back due to the billing kerfuffle, and one of them was gonna start up a new account for his woman. Also, my wife's parents will be killing their accounts. So there's over $96 per month, over $1000 a year, that SE won't see (main characters and mules) just from people that I personally know.

Good job, SE. Good job. Next time, just find some bleach and drink it, it'll be a faster death for your company than pissing off your users.

[Panthera]

Aug. 15, 2011 12:21 [PDT] From: FINAL FANTASY XI

ClickandBuy Maintenance (Aug. 16)



Access to ClickandBuy will be unavailable due to maintenance at the following time. During this period, users may be unable to perform the following:

- Purchase Square Enix Crysta using ClickandBuy
- Purchase Security Tokens using ClickandBuy
- Register ClickandBuy as their payment method
- Update their ClickandBuy account information

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

[Date & Time]
Aug. 16, 2011 from 20:00 to 21:30 (PDT)

[Affected Service]
Square Enix Account Management System

From FFXI Main Page.


Could this mean anything good?

[Frost]

It pisses me off that the Japanese players get special treatment.

It pisses me off more that Square refuses to address this issue publicly.

Those update notes for the next version update better be amazing, and the notes better come out in the next two weeks, or I'm letting my bill just lapse and walking away until they fix this.

I don't mind putting up with a little bit of nepotism, (or blatant racism, you can choose the word that applies more accurately) but I want to at least have something to show for it.

[Octaviane]

From FFXI Main Page.


Could this mean anything good?

OMG,...............but it's only for 90 minutes so who knows. Fingers crossed though for all of you. :)

I also wonder how often this will happen IF C&B is retained.

[Panthera]

OMG,...............but it's only for 90 minutes so who knows. Fingers crossed though for all of you. :)

I also wonder how often this will happen IF C&B is retained.

I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.

[Maacha]

I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.

What I'm thinking is that they're finding a way to make sure people don't get charged the international processing fee by their banks, which was BS anyway. I doubt there are any other substantial changes other than that. Unless perhaps they were adding more countries to the allowed list, but somehow I doubt it... >.>

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

I don't think C&B is being disposed of. At the very least, it will be kept as an option.

Admitted: speculation.
Thing is, i don't think SE simply CAN just get rid C&B. I stumbled across C&B's merchant contract and saw something mentioned about a 4 year minimum contract with some pretty stiff fees if the contract is broken early. Not sure if this applies to the situation between SE and C&B, but it might explain why they aren't ditching them and running like hell, especially with all the uproar about using them. They may be stuck with them for the duration of whatever contract they entered into and so are trying to put a 'positive spin' on the partnership in the hopes that they can fool people into thinking that it really really is a good thing...

Not that any of that justifies anything, they should have done some better research beforehand. But still.. makes ya wonder.

[Panthera]

They may be stuck with them for the duration of whatever contract they entered into and so are trying to put a 'positive spin' on the partnership in the hopes that they can fool people into thinking that it really really is a good thing...

The spin machine has been working marvelously thus far, and I don't think it can work much better.

[Jerbob]

Signed up just to scratch my mark here, not that I think it'll make any difference. SE has been messing us about for years and more than a few of my close friends in-game have quit over this. If nothing else that's hardly motivation for me to stay. Someone at SE really needs to get a grip.

[RAIST]

eh... they actually need to keep C&B, as it does provide an alternative for those that couldn't pay with the old POL system (non-3DS cards, etc.).

What they need to do is continue the direct-pay 3DS option in addition to C&B/Crysta options so they are covering all the bases.

[Klesniks]

There is a way you can judge for yourself how reputable Clickandbuy is without having to sign up with them first or believe any second hand information on forums or other websites (which I'm not doubting is correct!). Just go to their website and go to the 'shopping' tab. I didn't count but I must have gone to the websites of at least 15 of the companies listed, and only one of them actually accepted Clickandbuy as a payment method. Even Absolute Poker, listed on the Clickandbuy site, do not appear to accept Clickandbuy as a payment mechanism when then seem to accept just about every other payment mechanism. Clickandbuy is not on the list:
http://www.absolutepoker.eu/poker-money/deposit-funds-account

So, either Clickandbuy are just plain lying about having arrangements with these companies, or they had an arrangement but the company cancelled it for some reason (we can all guess why) and Clickandbuy haven't updated their site.

If this was the case with just one or two companies I could understand it, but it's most of them from what I can see!

That alone seals the deal for me as far as Clickandbuy are concerned, and I most defintely will not be using them.

[Runespider]

There is a huge post about this on the FFXIV forums too, the devs are also ignoring it there.

Intresting read.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/14581-Terrible-Payment-System

[Yinnyth]

To everyone who refuses to update their payment using the provided methods (myself included), there are probably some things you should know. SE will not offer another payment option by the end of the month. Depending on how this goes for them, they might never offer another payment option. Giving us choices costs them money, so they need to justify their costs. That's just good business. Angry posts on the internet prove nothing. In fact, many of the people who claim to be quitting may be lying and you'd have no way of knowing. As such, SE will wait until after the end of the month. Once they find out how many people refused to update payment out of protest instead of just ignorance over the transfer, then they will make a decision as to whether or not it is in their best interest to seek new options.

So ultimately what I'm getting at here is: If you want SE to offer you alternate methods, you have to be willing to quit FFXI for several months. Holding out until the last minute will not do the trick. Find some other games you've been wanting to play and occupy your time with them (might I suggest Skyrim? It's coming in November.) Heck, maybe even get a temp job to fill the time and make some extra money while you protest these changes. But don't expect to get what you want just because you made an angry post on the internet. They're playing hard ball. You have to show them you mean it.

Don't worry, it won't be all that hard to catch up on everything if/when you come back. FFXI is still on easy mode, and content from patches has been pretty low lately. But if you want changes, make the decision now that you're quitting for 3+ months.

[Coronach]

Hey all, I have no intention on participating in ClicknBuy what so ever and I am not willing to make the transfer and take such an unreasonable risk with them. I have a couple questions though for anyone who knows since I haven't initiated the transfer;

1. My POL account is linked to SE management system (I did this around the time XIV was released and to set up my token, thats all I've done) In order to discontinue XI's service do I need to cancel my IDs and unlink the account or just cancel the IDs normally?

2. I haven't checked the billing page in PlayOnline viewer recently, but is there a way to remove my information from there when I cancel my service? Although SE already has it, i'd rather not keep it in there in case some automatic transfer to click and buy happens at the end of the month.

3. What happens if I don't transfer at all?

[Niyariko]

If you don't transfer and on a NA/EU account, FFXI service will just get deactivated, just like how your credit card expired and the payment could not go thru when you were on POL. When you are ready, you can manually go into SEAM to reactive it while choose another payment method, unfortunately, this time there wouldn't be direct CC payment like the JP. Don't worry, your character data will still be there.

Me and a couple of my friends will just let our accounts deactivate on sept 1st, and take a break.

[Revanchist]

Find some other games you've been wanting to play and occupy your time with them (might I suggest Skyrim? It's coming in November.)

That's what I intend to be doing, as there are a few coming out that I'm particularly interested in (Warhammer 40k Space Marine, Assassin's Creed Revelations (I still need to finish ACII and ACB >.<) and Saints Row The Third... while also rebuilding my save files for Mass Effect 3 in March next year) as well as other games I've left by the wayside. Time to dust off the Dreamcast/PS2/SNES/Saturn etc methinx.


Don't worry, it won't be all that hard to catch up on everything if/when you come back. FFXI is still on easy mode, and content from patches has been pretty low lately. But if you want changes, make the decision now that you're quitting for 3+ months.

SE will eventually do something about this, after all... the changes in XIV SE did only happened after people complained for awhile. As FFXI is one of the only sources for regular revenue for SE, they'd be foolish to not add additional payment options alongside clickandbuy/crysta and playspan/gamer cards.

Still... even if SE doesn't do it, there are plenty of other MMO's available, so for those who are raging etc about this, may want to look at the alternatives. Myself, Star Wars The Old Republic is looking quite appealing.

[Panthera]

To everyone who refuses to update their payment using the provided methods (myself included), there are probably some things you should know. SE will not offer another payment option by the end of the month.

You state this as if it's a fact, when it's merely speculation. They still have two weeks from tomorrow before X-Day. There's still time, and anything can happen. I'm going to bet that some damage has already been caused, and they've already lost a little money here and there for those who have lost faith already.

I see what you're trying to do. You're saying that words are not enough, and that only action can solve this. I say we should keep posting away like this until X-Day. Bluffs can win poker games, words can move men to action. For Square-Enix, it's not really a question of what are the odds they're going to win, but rather, can they afford to lose?

And to be honest, some people are bluffing. Saying that isn't something that SE doesn't already know anyway. The question for them is, how many? If the majority weren't, could FFXI still be sufficiently profitable?

It may come down to just what you say. We'll have to stick to our guns, and go a month--or more-- for SE to see things from our side.

I for one am not bluffing. Go ahead, call it in two weeks and see what happens. While I still want to play, I am not going to go to any and all lengths to, FFXI seems passed its prime. I won't be going to other MMOs. I'm here because it was Final Fantasy, not because it was an MMO.

[Madjam]

This is a Formus for "gamers" to voice their opinions about "Final Fantasy XI Online" to the "developers":

[...]
These forums are a venue for players of FINAL FANTASY XI to communicate with each other and submit feedback on the game, as well as being a centralized location for the development and operations teams to gather user suggestions concerning current and future game content.
[...]

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/67


The concerns are addressed to the wrong employees of SE.
The concerns are addressed to the Development Team where they should be addressed to the Customer Service.

The impact would be the same as if the very same comments were sent to the Customer Service using the following "Suggestions & Feedback" form:

https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=20&la=1&p=0&fo=41


The best developers could do regarding threads related to this topic is to refer the comments to Customer Service.
Also hoping that developers don't pay to much attention to those threads and focus more on how to make FFXI a better game (Read: ... and focus more on the job they are paid for.)


If it's to verbalize opinions... alright... exert the freedom of expression.

If it's to resolve the issue:
[...]
Users can select from over 85 different payment methods (although the specific details will differ from country to country).
[...]

Source: http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html


Hmmmm! Impressive!
Well, if ClickandBuy International Limited doesn't fulfilled your needs, try PlaySpan Inc then.

[Panthera]

@Madjam

Considering how they're inundated with new threads and posts everyday, I'm sure someone somewhere has let the higher-ups know that we're less than enthused about Click'n'fail. While all of what you said may be true, the community representatives have responded once--if not twice-- in this very thread. In other words, I don't think the reps themselves are concerned about that either, or they would have moved everything weeks ago, rather than allowing a single threads to remain in the wrong place for weeks, letting it gather 1000 replies.

I don't think where we post matters very much. Mods can sort out what threads go where, and even if they tried, moving threads around would be a full time job at this rate.

I think it's a bit late in the game to worry about a disorderly forum. People are more interested in the billing issue than the game itself! In two weeks, it won't matter anyway.

[Maacha]

If it's to resolve the issue:
[...]
Users can select from over 85 different payment methods (although the specific details will differ from country to country).
[...]

Source: http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html


Hmmmm! Impressive!
Well, if ClickandBuy International Limited doesn't fulfilled your needs, try PlaySpan Inc then.

The problem is, neither ClickandBuy nor Playspan are available in many countries, mine included. Even for those people in the countries where the current options are available, people don't want to have to pay more than their monthly fee because of "international processing fees" from C&B or their bank, or by buying Crysta in bulk amounts.

I have already allowed one of my accounts to lapse, my mule account which I transferred before the end of July but was unable to pay for. My other 2 accounts will lapse at the end of this month, and I plan to leave them inactive for as long as it takes for more payment options to be added. $60 a month will be lost to SE from me alone.

[Yinnyth]

You state this as if it's a fact, when it's merely speculation. They still have two weeks from tomorrow before X-Day. There's still time, and anything can happen. I'm going to bet that some damage has already been caused, and they've already lost a little money here and there for those who have lost faith already.

You are completely correct, and I was using hyperbole there. The truth is I cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy. However, I feel it is important that everyone who wishes for change to be willing to accept this. If I'm wrong, we're all happy, we get a better payment option and we don't have to quit, but you're completely prepared for the likely scenario that nothing will change in time. If you expect them to change something before the end of the month, you are more likely to break down and use CnB when proven wrong.

So yes, I can't prove it, but I think we should all expect (if not believe) it.



I see what you're trying to do. You're saying that words are not enough, and that only action can solve this. I say we should keep posting away like this until X-Day. Bluffs can win poker games, words can move men to action. For Square-Enix, it's not really a question of what are the odds they're going to win, but rather, can they afford to lose?
Exactly correct. I'm fairly certain when they were going into this, they already expected losses. However, just as I cannot predict the future with 100% certainty, they cannot be certain how heavy those losses will be. About a week after the month ends, they'll know. If enough players protest the change like I will, perhaps they'll take the necessary steps to get us back ingame, or maybe they'll just take it in stride, who knows?



It may come down to just what you say. We'll have to stick to our guns, and go a month--or more-- for SE to see things from our side.

Yes, and even then, it may have all been for naught. SE might lose 5,000 accounts and still decide it's an acceptable loss, leaving us protesting something that will never change. And then I have to decide exactly how long I am willing to stick to my guns.


I for one am not bluffing. Go ahead, call it in two weeks and see what happens. While I still want to play, I am not going to go to any and all lengths to, FFXI seems passed its prime. I won't be going to other MMOs. I'm here because it was Final Fantasy, not because it was an MMO.

Bravo, sir. I agree whole-heartedly with your post.

[Niyariko]

...SE will eventually do something about this, after all... the changes in XIV SE did only happened after people complained for awhile...

But this time is different, the JP weren't complaining about click and buy. SE will need to force the JP to use Click and Buy before SE might actually do something sooner.

[Revanchist]

But this time is different, the JP weren't complaining about click and buy. SE will need to force the JP to use Click and Buy before SE might actually do something sooner.

We all know SE won't force the JP playerbase to use Clickandbuy... only the non JP's have to do that. Still... all we can do is hope that the amount of people who can't/don't want to use either of the new payment options, the loss of income from all the locked accounts, changes SE's mind...

Somehow I doubt it though...

[Pokoyo]

im currently having an argument with click'n'buy or what everyou want to call them... theyve already blocked my account !.. saying that the date of birth i entered was incorrect.. (even though its not) and they are at this time refusing to unblock my account !... whats all that about..

my details are correct, my passwords are correct, my security questions are correct.. but because there system says its not im blocked !!!

well EFF YOU click'n'sh**e thanks for nothing !

hoping i can speak to somebody higher up there, if there is such a person !.. get this mess sorted out !..

[Madjam]

The problem is, neither ClickandBuy nor Playspan are available in many countries, mine included. Even for those people in the countries where the current options are available, people don't want to have to pay more than their monthly fee because of "international processing fees" from C&B or their bank, or by buying Crysta in bulk amounts.

Then again...
Source: https://developer.playspan.com/developer/ext/payments.do

In the following tabs:
- Credit / Debit Cards
- Phone and Mobile
- Prepaid, Cash & E-Wallets.

Under the following colum:
- Supported Countries

Seeking for payment methods saying Global or Globally might reveal certain options available.

Global means all 204 countries on this world...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states


Please see the following: http://www.playspan.com/pcgames
SE isn't the only video game company to rely on that method to get paid.


Also, please consult the following documents, there might have some answers to some questions...:

- Press Release for Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4release.pdf

- Results Briefing Session for the Fiscal Year ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4slides.pdf

[...]Appendix: Change in Units Sold by Region[...]
Read the colum 1212E for Asia, Etc. => 0.00

Aftermath... They'll be doing better than in 2004...


Question:
If the community wants to get ride of PS2 platform to support FFXI Online, wouldn't it be the first logical move from SE to get ride of the PlayOnline payment system which PS2 is bound to?

[Revanchist]

Then again...
Source: https://developer.playspan.com/developer/ext/payments.do

In the following tabs:
- Credit / Debit Cards
- Phone and Mobile
- Prepaid, Cash & E-Wallets.

Under the following colum:
- Supported Countries

Seeking for payment methods saying Global or Globally might reveal certain options available.

Global means all 204 countries on this world...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states


Please see the following: http://www.playspan.com/pcgames
SE isn't the only video game company to rely on that method to get paid.


Also, please consult the following documents, there might have some answers to some questions...:

- Press Release for Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4release.pdf

- Results Briefing Session for the Fiscal Year ended March 31, 2011
Source: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/11q4slides.pdf

[...]Appendix: Change in Units Sold by Region[...]
Read the colum 1212E for Asia, Etc. => 0.00

Aftermath... They'll be doing better than in 2004...

The gamer cards for PlaySpan aren't available for purchase in every country yet, and Crysta isn't legally accepted as a viable payment option in every country either.


Question:
If the community wants to get ride of PS2 platform to support FFXI Online, wouldn't it be the first logical move from SE to get ride of the PlayOnline payment system which PS2 is bound to?

Then that'd kill the Xbox 360 version as that uses POL as a springboard into playing FFXI... so SE wanting to get rid of it, will affect PS2 and Xbox 360 gamers.

[RAIST]

POL is more than just a billing system--it's highly integrated into the shell of FFXI, so they can't just get rid of it yet. Certain portions of the shell would have to be recoded to replace the same functions it provides to support various features in the game (like messaging and such).

They don't have to keep the POL bililng system to accept the credit cards either, as evidenced by them not using POL to store and process CC payments for the JP players through the new SE ID system.

And that is the whole point--it's a web based solution, a large part of which is provided by the CC processor. You tell them what type of pages you are using (.asp, .do/.jsp, etc.) and they give you the code to paste into your pages. You stitch it in, edit it to include your account and server specific info, set the test flags--and start making dummy payments to test it. When you're ready to accept payment, clear the test flags and go live.

They've already done all of this for the JP Region's system and pages....they've just elected to not do it for anyone else.

[Panthera]

As far as Billing Update Notes (which they did say they'd do), today was the last day I was expecting them to do anything, while still providing us with enough time (2 weeks) to go through the procedure. Anything after today is pushing it to the last minute--if they do anything that actually fixes the problem at all. After today, I think we have the right to really start getting anxious, and grow more anxious about it each day until the end.

They said some time ago they would try and make it easier. I would just like to know when that will happen, and what they'll do.

I think we should be kept informed not just about the direction of the game, but about our relationship to them as customers of Square-Enix. If we write 1000 posts in one thread, as well as 4 dozen other threads, and they say,"we'll try and make it easier," we need to know how and when before we experience a service interruption.

I wish they'd just said,"We understand that some of our players are uncomfortable with the changes to the billing process. If you choose to discontinue playing for any reason, we respect that decision, and hope you have enjoyed your time in Vana 'diel. Please understand that the changes were unavoidable, and we deeply regret that some may be unable to continue to play using Chrysta. We intend to use the payment options as presented, as they are the ways in which we are best able to continue providing service to our customers."

That's the best I can do. It's direct, doesn't offer false hope, is apologetic to those who must be left behind, respectful to those who decide to leave, and provides reason as to why everything changed. There's a difference between walking away on good terms, and stalking off, never buying another FF game again.

[ExeorRag]

My content ID's are cancelled by SE, guess this is it then :(

[Maacha]

My content ID's are cancelled by SE, guess this is it then :(

Good to know that people can still post even if their IDs are cancelled, I guess we can continue this debate past Sept 1st when alot of other people's accounts expire.

[Niyariko]

I think anyone can just create a SEAM account and make post, even they never register with any SE products. (edit: I was wrong, SE don't want anyone to talk about their game unless you are current customer) I guess i'll complain in ffxiv forum past aug 31.

One way to make a successful business is to provide ways of easy payment to customers, so they can pay them even blindfolded. SE has failed acknowledging this.

[Arcon]

Good to know that people can still post even if their IDs are cancelled, I guess we can continue this debate past Sept 1st when alot of other people's accounts expire.


I think anyone can just create a SEAM account and make post, even they never register with any SE products.

No. It just takes a while to turn off. SE cancelled my IDs on July 30, and I was able to post until like August 3 (not exactly sure). Then I could still log into my SE Account, but it said I have no active Content IDs to post with. I guess it's the same as when they added the character selection thing, where you had to pick a character to be able to post. And without Content ID, no character, can't post. I reactivated my account on the 13th, after I got a new credit card that ClickandBuy would accept.

So I guess after September 3 no one will be complaining anymore, at least not on here. SE might take that as a sign that it's all ok now. It would fit their logic.

[Runespider]

It's pretty obvious Square are going to wait and see what kind of fallout there is from this before they do a damn thing (if they do at all) so I would suggest everyone that has issues with this look for alternative games to play to try hold out for a while or maybe permanently. It's entirely possible these payment options are here to stay and they will give no others (for overseas players), even if it means a significant loss of profits. Square are a JP company, they don't like admiting they are in the wrong and will eat failure pie before doing so. Look at FFXIV and how many warning signs they got it was bad and ignored them all.

Ignoring it's users is the ultimate slap in the face and shows how little they respect us, they just think we are too addicted and stupid to quit or take a long break over this. If that's true and they know us all so well, then maybe we deserve these crappy payment options.

[Niyariko]

...without Content ID, no character, can't post. I reactivated my account on the 13th, after I got a new credit card that ClickandBuy would accept.

So I guess after September 3 no one will be complaining anymore, at least not on here. SE might take that as a sign that it's all ok now. It would fit their logic.

Thx for correcting me, I guess I was wrong :p
I guess i'll complain in ffxiv forum past aug 31.

[Orlind]

Think I'll be joining the people playing other games when my content IDs are deactivated as well. I've already started getting back into the Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE MMO and its more fleshed out than it was when it first started its US release.

And with SF3: 3rd Strike OE already preordered, I might just become the next Daigo Umehara with how much time I'm not on FFXI.

To the person mentioning Absolute Poker and their website not listing C&B: its probably because the site doesn't have it as a preferred payment processor. The ones they have listed probably have better deals with AP for ads and/or are easier to handle for the customer and their phone agents.

I used to work at a rival online poker company and with C&B, we just had it as a last resort to keep customers. However, those same customers would always come back and complain about how bad C&B was in the end.

Makes me wonder how S-E's support centre is going to handle the calls I used to get about C&B because I probably have tips for their phone agents :)

[Niyariko]

...I've already started getting back into the Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE MMO and its more fleshed out than it was when it first started its US release...

LOL thanks for reminding me of this game, I tried long ago when JP first released, and wonder if my character is still there. I might give this a try again. Before was all in japanese, and everyone was japanese, so now there is a NA version in english? hows the server? are they multi region like ffxi?

[Jerbob]

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

[Harukusan]

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

[Raiyara]

Tbh u dont need Click'and'Scam just use Paypal I got it working all you gotta do is

1) Create paypal account
2) Get Credit Card verified (can be done withing a day or so with online banking)
3) Log into SE account and Select buy Crysta
4) Select Ultimatepay
5) Select Paypal in the tab
6) Login to paypal account and pay.
7) Recieve the Crysta
8) No surcharges or nothing u now have gametime!

[Aldersyde]

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

I won't use CnB because when I asked my bank whether I should (after I heard about U.S. banks freezing accounts or calling people to clear charges from CnB) they told me that since they were an other wise little known international vendor and that they were involved in types of services that could be used to perpetrate fraudulent transactions, the fraud prevention system would most likely be triggered every time CnB tried to charge my card. Plus, when I googled them(really, just looking at the first two pages of a google search isn't really an intensive inquiry) I saw more than enough to realize that I wanted nothing to do with them: poor customer service that was apparent in 2007 which still carries on, seeming random difficulties in people setting up accounts, making you fill out a template with all your information before telling you the service in unavailable in your region, requesting sensitive documents like a passport to verify identity (when I got my passport, the agent who processed my application told me that I was never to give my passport to anyone outside the government or in law enforcement, or reproduce it for that matter). At the very least CnB is amateurish and inconvenient. I know people will say, "Just call your bank if it triggers fraud alarms and get it cleared" but that defeats the purpose of an automated payment option.

You have no problems. Great! I don't care. I don't want to deal with them and I won't deal with them. They should have chosen a more reputable third party. In Canada, while Paypal is at least listed as a partner in fraud prevention on the anti-fraud government website (Phonebusters), CnB is no where to be seen. Face it, even though Paypal has had problems, they are better known by NA banks and at least make a show of working with government agencies to protect people from fraud. It's simply more reputable.

I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

I won't even get into how blatantly insulting it is to give one group of customers more options than another group of customers simply based on the region they live ESPECIALLY when they had the same options before.

You say people are overreacting. I say you're naive and don't care enough about your personal and financial information. I'm not going to give my information to a company I don't trust and hope they use it for the purposes they say they're using it for. That's just stupid.

[Yinnyth]

Tbh u dont need Click'and'Scam just use Paypal I got it working all you gotta do is

1) Create paypal account
2) Get Credit Card verified (can be done withing a day or so with online banking)
3) Log into SE account and Select buy Crysta
4) Select Ultimatepay
5) Select Paypal in the tab
6) Login to paypal account and pay.
7) Recieve the Crysta
8) No surcharges or nothing u now have gametime!
9) set each account payment method to use crysta
10) repeat steps 3-6 everytime crysta runs low
11) bemoan the muda (waste) of the crysta that will never be spent on anything
12) pray SE doesn't flex their crysta rights. Seriously, have you read the crysta agreement? It's ridiculous what they're allowing themselves to do. I'd be less reluctant to sign an agreement that says they get to kick me in the pants at any moment without warning because at least then I'd still have my money.

[Runespider]

I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

I think this will start to happen for a lot of the distruntled customers now, they will turn loyal long standing subscribers into fairweather friends. They will take people that have paid monthly non-stop for years into people that will only pay that month if they feel Square have done enough to warrant the fee.

[Anathiel]

I think this will start to happen for a lot of the distruntled customers now, they will turn loyal long standing subscribers into fairweather friends. They will take people that have paid monthly non-stop for years into people that will only pay that month if they feel Square have done enough to warrant the fee.

That's my plan! :)

[Orlind]

LOL thanks for reminding me of this game, I tried long ago when JP first released, and wonder if my character is still there. I might give this a try again. Before was all in japanese, and everyone was japanese, so now there is a NA version in english? hows the server? are they multi region like ffxi?

Nah, the NA version of IMAGINE is run by Aeria Games and its seperated by region just like any other MMO. Your character should still be there along with all your stuff (except some of it might work properly this time). Also, I couldn't walk 5 seconds without seeing a bunch of people along the roads and the towns are packed.

I sort of like IMAGINE in that the community feels more like FFXI did back in the old days with lots of new and old players hanging out together. Plus, everyone seems more friendly like FFXI used to be back in the day. Nobody jumping down your throat for asking a simple question out in the field and people helping each other. The staff even hosts events with prizes and stuff for everyone.

More importantly, they seem to give a damn about getting our money and trying not to piss everyone off because its on a free-to-pay model.

[Octaviane]

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

You are forgetting that a significant # of people don't have alll the options available to them everywhere. Just because you could do it easily doesn't make it so for everyone else. Many players are barely old enough to play, much less get their own bank and cc.

Please answer the following: Would you e-mail/mail/fax or otherwise supply an unknown third party with copies of your Driver's License, Birth certificate, Passport and other sensitive information in order to prove who you are only to be told that C&B is not available in your region? How would you like having your bank place a freeze on your account because they think it's suspicious activity? What will you do after having gone through C&B they all of a sudden have billing problems and you can't play?

This thread is not just about you, but about the people who don't like/refuse or can't use the current options.

September 1 is going to be an eye opener. Hopefully all who have transferred won't have problems and those who haven't will be able to re-activate easily.

[Octaviane]

By the way, did anyone see this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13082-NA-Square-Enix-Account-Billing-Technical-Difficulties-(Aug.-18)

[Panthera]

I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

There's a Mantis. B@#&$es love Mantises. C'mon. Did you see the size of that thing? It' huge, and it's a Mantis. And it's huge. And Mantis-like. Can't go wrong with Mantises. They're so Mantisy. I love Mantises. Call me a Man-tis. Once you go Man-tis, you never go back. That's actually me in the pic. I know, you're impressed. See you in September! :D

[Vivik]

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

You could have at least attempted to read some of the thread before you made yourself look stupid.

[Noyax]

I have lil hope it will all be working. I transfered my accounts (again) and are not even able to get back into game now. Have to wait till monday (again) to make a long distance call to support just to be able to enter game. Been struggling 2 days to make that clickandbuy account but i have my doubts if this is going to work.....

[Noyax]

After adding my accounts to SE account for the security token i couldnt get back into game and had to wait 2 days for EU support to reset my password to be able to play again.
Now it took me 2 days to create that clickandbuy account (verifications) and after successfully adding my accounts to the same SE account again just for the payment issue, its the same story: cant get back in game again and again its saturday wo i have to wait monday to make another long distance call to play again.
Its really not as simple as you say!!!

[Noyax]

After adding my accounts to SE account for the security token i couldnt get back into game and had to wait 2 days for EU support to reset my password to be able to play again.
Now it took me 2 days to create that clickandbuy account (verifications) and after successfully adding my accounts to the same SE account again just for the payment issue, its the same story: cant get back in game again and again its saturday wo i have to wait monday to make another long distance call to play again.
Its really not as simple as you say!!!

This was meand to be replied to Harukusan's post
And btw.... i am an adult with no mommy's support anymore, my own account sinds 35 years and one of the biggest banks in europe.

[magnuss]

Bad thing here in US with my bank is im getting charged an additional international fee for 4 accounts each, due to the fact click & buy does not have a branch on US soil. A friend of mine did the conversion, and while he was playing was booted for 2 days because the whole thing got messed up on their end. This whole thing really stinks, I really wish they would go back to the previos way. Im really concerned many people are going to have the same issue my friend had once everyone has converted

[Yinnyth]

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

[Orlind]

I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

I'm not even sure any higher-ups at S-E will hear us until the game loses more money over this.

Despite the formation of these official forums, I still don't think the message is getting to anyone important. Don't get me wrong, I think the Community Reps try their best to pass info and feedback between us and those in charge. However, I still believe communication between us and them is too restricted, especially in light of how other companies handle things with equal or even less resources.

With other games and companies, we have real names and faces that actually engage in chatter with their playerbase on somewhat of a regular basis and that's how I wished these forums would be. I think even regular mini progress reports (maybe on that Twitter account they have going) would go a long way in relieving any tension we have here. Sorry but the Community Reps chiming in once a fortnight is not enough.

[Runespider]

Despite the formation of these official forums

The forums were introduced with the best of intentions, the suits and higher ups at SE are too set in their ways to change in reality. The devs use the forums as an ideas pool but that's about it (especially for cheap/easy stuff to add), even that will degrade as time goes on.

I would hate to be working on this forum, it must be an incredibly annoying job being the link between their customers and the higher ups/devs when the novelty has/is wearing and they go back to their old "we know best" attitude. Whenever a rep here avoids posts or anything it's not cause they want to, it's cause they can't get confirmation on information or permission to reply to them. Not even to say they are working/thinking on changing/leaving the issues.

This thread is a golden example, there should of at least been a proper statement after all this time stating if they were going to simply ignore complaints and leave it or if they were actively going to add more options. As it is they pretty much said nothing of any value leaving us all hanging and just waiting to see how much fallout happens before bothering to spend money adding better options. They know people are angry about this, they don't care about that...just if that anger actually leads to less money per month.

[Cruentus]

I've canceled my subscription. There are just too many things I hate about this game, as well as about Final Fantasy XIV.

[Octaviane]

I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

Regarding the /smes that comes up when you log on. I think it's proof positive that SE is not planning on making any payment changes before the end of the month. It may be that they never will, it "might" be a consideration at some point in the future, but it's not looking hopeful since SE Account Management people have said nary a word on the subject.

There has already been one billing maintenance because of C&B and another message that says that purchases made through their billing partner have been delayed, no apparent resolution of that yet either. I shudder to think what's going to happen at the end of the month, when people discover they can no longer play or have access to these forums to say so.

[Panthera]

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

I'm sure this the first some players have even heard about this debacle. Nine days remaining till hilarity really ensues.

[Lordscyon]

Crysta is the best ^^
Its fast easy!
&
Prepaid way! Get top up cards!

[Kimara]

Crysta is the best ^^
Its fast easy!
&
Prepaid way! Get top up cards!

It wasn't terrible like a lot of people are making it seem <.<. Just a minor annoyance that my husband and I couldn't share the same pool of crysta. That's understandable though because you have to have two separate SE accounts.

[Panthera]

It wasn't terrible like a lot of people are making it seem <.<. Just a minor annoyance that my husband and I couldn't share the same pool of crysta. That's understandable though because you have to have two separate SE accounts.

You mean SE isn't making this convenient for its subscribers?

[Economizer]

Having just lost out on a chance at getting a roundel earring because I was being stubborn and trying to use ClickandBuy, I can say that honestly, I am done with them and never want to deal with them again. SE shouldn't be doing business with these jokers at all. SE has hurt my trust in them by even suggesting that I should deal with such an untrustworthy and worthless company in the first place. I hope SE can keep what little faith I have in them regarding payment methods, and earn back the massive amounts they have lost.

Maybe it is all just a giant conspiracy by SE to make us use Crysta (1-2 hours after breaking down in despair I found it was really easy, although it also makes it really easy to stop paying if I ever get unsatisfied with SE... which doesn't seem hard after this payment debacle) without complaining about it too much.

If this was really what SE wanted, they could have just forced us all to use Crysta and be done with it, without taking a massive hit to their reputation by dealing with sleazy companies.

My ideal from here on out would be SE announcing that due to the complaints about ClickandBuy, they will stop recommending it, and only deal with customers who have already setup a ClickandBuy account, alongside an apology about making a mistake of this magnitude. But for now, I'll just have to use Crysta and hope that SE really gets that it was unacceptable to even suggest its customers do business with someone so horrible.

[Kimara]

You mean SE isn't making this convenient for its subscribers?

I would call it an inconvenience, nothing we would quit over though. We had trouble with Clickandbuy in the past So we didn't go through them and just use'd paypal, much easier x.x!

[RAIST]

In case you new posters haven't been following the thread, it's more about the means for us to use our CC to pay SE. JP can simply give SE thier CC info as always---everyone else has to go through another party now, and it is causing a lot of issues.

It may even be worse then previously experienced with SE's POL system, hard to say without actual statisitics. Considering regions that were previously able to pay without issues are now getting blocked by C&B's regional restrictions, some banks are rejecting C&B, others are charging fees for using C&B, C&B is charging in a different currency and for some it has increased the subscription fees...C&B has become a bit of a problem for many.

[Nightstrike]

well from what i gather then, not transferring will solve those issues...(for the time being anyways) and from what i heard, don't cancel your account, because when you reactivate it, you'll be forced to use C&B then.

[Vazerus]

You'll be forced to transfer to the new system by next month anyway, iirc.

[RAIST]

That is the whole point... letting SE know how much of a clusterf*ck they've made by keeping things the same for just the JP region's CC use while screwing everyone else.

They can maintain the existing option for one region, AND give them the new options as well. They can also do it for the other regions. The question is why aren't they? And will they fix it in time before they loose lots of revenue?

[Panthera]

I would call it an inconvenience, nothing we would quit over though. We had trouble with Clickandbuy in the past So we didn't go through them and just use'd paypal, much easier x.x!

Would you mind clarifying what exactly you did? First, I'm assuming we're talking about FFXI, and not some other MMO.

You can use Paypal, but not directly. As I understand it, you can purchase Chrysta from Square-Enix via Click'n Buy using a PayPal payment option. That still sounds like using Click'nBuy to me. Please just clarify what you did, not tryin' to troll ya.

Also as a general question to everyone:...

What exactly is UltimatePay getting out of this?

The discussion has focused on Click'n Buy so much, it feels like "the lesser of two evils" has gotten lost in the shuffle. Aren't there some fees somewhere to the buyer? Or are they collecting from SE for using their services?

I did look around. The local Wal-mart didn't carry the cards like UP's website said it did, but a GameStop and a convenience store did. I could buy them, but even if SE did have $1.00 denominations of Chrysta, UP only says $20.00 worth on their cards, so I end up paying for more than I need either way. This is of course strictly academic at this point.

[Concerned4FFxi]

It is hidden when the tos is five pages long of garbage and the one sentence or two thats most relivant to 90% of users is buried in there somewhere. In my opinion, an honest bussiness doesnt hide those types of things in their tos, they come right out and say it. Tos is generally for the lawyers.

[Runespider]

I've been trying to think why they are treating Japanese players so nicely while giving everyone else the finger, is it punishment for a small % of them that abused chargeback? Is it at attempt to prune those regions back and try make these games JP only again? I don't get it, the system is there to buy "exact amount" crysta and pay SE direct since they are using it for the Japanese they just choose not to offer it to anyone else for some reason.

I really can't understand why a company the size of SE that needs money as badly as they do and that has been running the title nearly 10 years with a worldwide playerbase would treat JP players so well and everyone else so badly, it makes no sense at all.

[wildsprite]

What exactly is UltimatePay getting out of this?

The discussion has focused on Click'n Buy so much, it feels like "the lesser of two evils" has gotten lost in the shuffle. Aren't there some fees somewhere to the buyer? Or are they collecting from SE for using their services?

I did look around. The local Wal-mart didn't carry the cards like UP's website said it did, but a GameStop and a convenience store did. I could buy them, but even if SE did have $1.00 denominations of Chrysta, UP only says $20.00 worth on their cards, so I end up paying for more than I need either way. This is of course strictly academic at this point.

I'm going to guess SE pays them a set fee or they make money on others things they sell on playspan

[Octaviane]

10 days to go until "D" day and still no word from SE to acknowledge concerns, much less say they are looking into other options. And I mean from SE themselves, not Mods.

[Kimara]

Would you mind clarifying what exactly you did? First, I'm assuming we're talking about FFXI, and not some other MMO.

You can use Paypal, but not directly. As I understand it, you can purchase Chrysta from Square-Enix via Click'n Buy using a PayPal payment option. That still sounds like using Click'nBuy to me. Please just clarify what you did, not tryin' to troll ya.

Also as a general question to everyone:...

What exactly is UltimatePay getting out of this?

The discussion has focused on Click'n Buy so much, it feels like "the lesser of two evils" has gotten lost in the shuffle. Aren't there some fees somewhere to the buyer? Or are they collecting from SE for using their services?

I did look around. The local Wal-mart didn't carry the cards like UP's website said it did, but a GameStop and a convenience store did. I could buy them, but even if SE did have $1.00 denominations of Chrysta, UP only says $20.00 worth on their cards, so I end up paying for more than I need either way. This is of course strictly academic at this point.

I play FFXI thats what we paid for, You have to click the Ultimate payment method to purchase cryta, when the popup screen opens, you can see the paypal tab next to Ultimate gamecard. Then you'll be directed to Paypal w/ the SE info already in there. So if it went through anything it wasn't Click and buy.

[Economizer]

So if it went through anything it wasn't Click and buy.

At this point, the only thing keeping me playing FFXI is the fact that I don't have to use ClickandBuy.

[Kimara]

At this point, the only thing keeping me playing FFXI is the fact that I don't have to use ClickandBuy.

I agree which is why Saith and I chose to use Paypal instead, however cryptic it was to find it. We had trouble with Click and Buy in the past and good luck ever getting customer support. It reminded me for being on the phone with SE for 6 hours (no exaggeration either) except click and buy just never answers the phone.

[Alpheus]

Quick question Kimara. Did utilizing PayPal via Ultimatepay require a UP account?

I just wanna know the specfics since i am currently eyeing that route

[Kimara]

Quick question Kimara did utilizing PayPal via Ultimatepay require a UP account?

I just wanna know the specfics since i am currently eyeing that route

No it did not, But it WILL charge it as Ultimate pay, but Paypal will handle it. You can see it clearly in your paypal account.

[Malamasala]

I'd personally go the paypal route... if it wasn't crysta bound and expected me to pay more than the cost of playing.

Still wondering why the "pay exactly what it costs" option is taking so long. Well, I really don't, since paying more means SE makes more money.

[Panthera]

I play FFXI thats what we paid for, You have to click the Ultimate payment method to purchase cryta, when the popup screen opens, you can see the paypal tab next to Ultimate gamecard. Then you'll be directed to Paypal w/ the SE info already in there. So if it went through anything it wasn't Click and buy.

Now, does Ultimate Pay allow you

A) to purchase Chrysta in $5.00, $10.00, and $20.00 denominations?

B) or do you have to pay them an even $20.00 online (just like you would when you buy one of their cards at Wal-mart or whatever) and then you can buy the Chrysta in SE's denominations? This makes a difference, because if SE sold Chrysta in $1.00 amounts, it wouldn't matter if you have to pay Ultimate Pay in even $20's.


10 days to go until "D" day and still no word from SE to acknowledge concerns, much less say they are looking into other options. And I mean from SE themselves, not Mods.

Remember back when Enfeebling Magic got messed up (or it might have been monster magic evasion, details)? They were awefully sluggish in communicating with us--but that's nothing compared to what we're dealing with now.

I'd at least like a time-frame. "At the present time, we intend to proceed with the new billing methods as described. However, please understand that the process will remain under scrutiny, and we shall make adjustments as needed." That way, we know for sure in advance if our service is going to be interrupted or not if we don't change over. They did say they hear us and will make it user-friendly, but in a way, that just made things more ambiguous. What will they do and when? Go back to Credit Cards before 8/31 (or 8/30, whichever), or go to $1.00 Chrysta in a few months, or Paypal in 2 years, what? when? It seems like we're waiting for fixes that might not happen in time.

[Twille]

What i'm REALLY interested in, is to see SE's subscription numbers before and after this change.
I'd love to continue playing, but I'm not willing to jump through hoops so that SE can charge me more money. I play with a small group of RL friends and we all feel the same way, none of us are renewing our accounts in September. I imagine we're not the only people that feel this way. Not that it makes a difference...haha.

[Yinnyth]

Remember back when Enfeebling Magic got messed up (or it might have been monster magic evasion, details)? They were awefully sluggish in communicating with us--but that's nothing compared to what we're dealing with now.

If memory serves, I believe that was more a matter of SE not noticing there was anything wrong. I think I remember posts from people who talked to GMs, and the GM claimed that they had received many reports about it, but were unable to find anything in their investigations. And that's sorta been the whole story with SE all along: slow to understand. So I don't expect much of a reaction from SE until the outrage is put into terms they can digest. If enough people fail to renew, if these forums go dead when ex-members are no longer capable of posting here, if they stop pulling in enough revenue to keep things going without making cutbacks, then they'll understand.

[Alpheus]

No it did not, But it WILL charge it as Ultimate pay, but Paypal will handle it. You can see it clearly in your paypal account.

I see. Thank you very much for answering. ^^

[Upokupo]

What i'm REALLY interested in, is to see SE's subscription numbers before and after this change.
I'd love to continue playing, but I'm not willing to jump through hoops so that SE can charge me more money. I play with a small group of RL friends and we all feel the same way, none of us are renewing our accounts in September. I imagine we're not the only people that feel this way. Not that it makes a difference...haha.

That's the exact situation with me and my rl friends. Lookin' at this and realizing it's not worth the hassle/bother. We may feel differently in the future but not any time soon. So, yeah there are others :p

[Kariel]

Just canceled and so did my friend.

Speaking with the only language SE will understand.

Take care everyone.

[mistmonster]

Just canceled and so did my friend.

Speaking with the only language SE will understand.

Take care everyone.

Yup same. I give up and take 6 accounts with me. Was waiting until the last second for SE to do something but our area is being threatened by a hurricane and may get too busy with work to pay attention to the deadline.

Please SE take my credit card like you used to, like you do for the JPs and like every *real* business anywhere. I'd probably forgive you

[laos278]

I think this will start to happen for a lot of the distruntled customers now, they will turn loyal long standing subscribers into fairweather friends. They will take people that have paid monthly non-stop for years into people that will only pay that month if they feel Square have done enough to warrant the fee.

Yeah there is quite a lot of players that logged on only for a few weeks or less after what is now called major update, then disappeared as they got bored again. The difference is they'd leave the auto billing. I even know two guys that haven't barely logged on since lv80 cap, yet didn't cancel. Think they'll bother adding crysta? They won't even be around to see /servmes or whatnot. Knowing them they will log on in november (2012), see some pop up message "blah blah transfer SE account", laugh at how senseless it is, and log back off. Sure, there will be some who will buy a ton of crysta without even thinking, but it won't come close to making up for this loss.

Now for the fair weather types it'll be "Hey there's lv95 think i'll buy $20 crysta" > a month later they don't bother adding more, till the next update. This will have a huge impact as the updates presumably become less frequent, after the timeline anyway. I may end up doing this since i can't get my friends to even bother making SE account. I'd still like to try out lv99, but keep adding crysta till december or later? SE has never seemed to understand the trickle-down effect of these things, whether hacking or bans or billing fiasco, how friends no longer being on makes the game less enjoyable.

Also in the past, it was annoying to cancel and reactivate due to double billing and the end of month maints. Now we can just, for example, not add crysta until Sept 20 or whenever the update is. Then you still get a month's worth rather than the last 10 days. In that sense i guess it does benefit some players, but doesn't seem at all like wise business decision. I'm curious, there has been a (very) few posts defending this, but i think none even takes a stab at how this "improves security" or whatever that line was about the reason for it.

[Niyariko]

Does this mean we won!?.. I might continue to play ffxi yea, and now might give ffxiv another look :o
and hope direct CC payment option is in by mid fall.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6978/detail.html


You've Spoken and We've Heard You
You, the community, have clearly expressed your dissatisfaction with our billing system transition—and we are listening. We now understand that the options we presented you did not meet the level of service you have come to expect from Square Enix, so we have been working hard to address these concerns.

Accordingly, we will be extending the transfer cut-off date until we are able to implement the following improvements:
- New credit card payment options for Crysta [Available Now]
- The ability to specify exactly how much Crysta you want to buy [Early Fall]
- New recurring payment credit card options [Mid Fall]

We hope these steps show our ongoing commitment to you, our fans. It is our goal to make the FINAL FANTASY XI experience as fun and rewarding as possible.

Also in the days to come we'll reveal details for new offers and incentives to help ease your transition to the new system.

We sincerely thank you for your continued support of FINAL FANTASY XI.

Yasu Kurosawa
FINAL FANTASY XI North American Online Producer

Now SE need to update POL and enable back the CC payment for those of us having credit card expires this past Aug so we can update our CC info and continue for us to pay them money ... :p

[Niyariko]

New credit card payment options for Crysta [Available Now]

Still only CnB and Ulimatepay options available in SEAM.... I thought they said available now, where do i type in my CC info to buy crysta!? Can anyone figure out? :confused:

[Aver]

Still only CnB and Ulimatepay options available in SEAM.... I thought they said available now, where do i type in my CC info to buy crysta!? Can anyone figure out? :confused:

Click on crysta, then ultimatepay and it'll give you the option of entering in your CC directly, along with paypal and "one more option available"

edit: and I wouldn't call it winning tbh, since it was never a game to begin with. Just good business to keep your customers happy, which I see someone noticed finally :)

[mistmonster]

OMG OMG OMG I wake up to Hurricane Irene tracking further away from us and THIS!? Should I play the lotto today?

WOOO

The transfer date has been extended so those of us that didn't transfer don't have to worry about it this month? I read it twice, but I'm not awake yet

[Aver]

OMG OMG OMG I wake up to Hurricane Irene tracking further away from us and THIS!? Should I play the lotto today?

WOOO

The transfer date has been extended so those of us that didn't transfer don't have to worry about it this month? I read it twice, but I'm not awake yet

Yes to all.

And send me a portion when you win.

[Niyariko]

I wonder if Yasu Kurosawa reads these threads lol

[Alpheus]

I wonder if Yasu Kurosawa reads these threads lol

^

lol if he was hordecore or some other troll

[Arcon]

The transfer date has been extended so those of us that didn't transfer don't have to worry about it this month? I read it twice, but I'm not awake yet

Great, so I pay 50% more than everyone else for several months instead of one \o/ I wanna transfer back...

[Madjam]

Does this mean we won!?.. I might continue to play ffxi yea, and now might give ffxiv another look :o
and hope direct CC payment option is in by mid fall.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6978/detail.html[...]


Yasu Kurosawa
FINAL FANTASY XI North American Online Producer
We didn't win anything since it wasn't in SE's plans to lose the NA market...

And now is a good time to start making practical suggestions on payment to SE.

Now is time to think about a solution and not to complain about an issue.

N.B.: Read the "Easier Payment Options (08/23/2011)" from PlayOnline Viewer since the very same article on Playonline's website is incomplte.

[Revanchist]

While this is good news... what happens now? Crysta is still involved, so what about those gamers in countries where Crysta still isn't legally accepted as a viable payment option? This announcement hasn't addressed that fact at all... and while SE doesn't want to lose the NA market, what about the rest of the world?

Also... does this mean that those who haven't changed payment option yet (who are still in direct payment mode), their accounts will be locked at the end of the month or what? I'm aware that SE has desires to get rid of POL... but honestly, how can they do that? POL is integral to playing FFXI and to get rid of it, would mean a complete recoding of the game... which I don't think is a viable option for a ten year old game.

[Octaviane]

Look at the positive side guys, you all have a reprieve. I am assuming that your current method of payment changed or otherwise will be fine.

It took almost a month to get an actual response directly from SE, give them a chance to implement the proposed changes and go from there.

Congratulations and a hearty thank you to everyone, regardless of opinion, who took the time to make and keep this thread visible. :) Good job.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

WHA HOOOOOOO

=D

[Eroniris]

They still said nothing for EU and other countries so while i'm happy for those of you who will be seeing changes, the rest of the world is still going to have issues regarding the payment options.
It would be nice if before rejoycing we would get some help in having our voices heard too.
Thanks in advance.

[Dragoy]

They still said nothing for EU and other countries so while i'm happy for those of you who will be seeing changes, the rest of the world is still going to have issues regarding the payment options.
It would be nice if before rejoycing we would get some help in having our voices heard too.
Thanks in advance.
I would assume the person/people responsible of updating the EU-site simply has not been able to do so yet (time-zone differences et cetera).

Obviously it is entirely possible the announcement only refers to the NA-customers, but I'd still like to assume it will be aimed to everyone of us. Even if not, sooner or later it should.


From the start, whole this time I was quite certain they will do something like this, I did not really have doubts about that, it was more like why it was not done in the first place.

That said, I would like to offer my thank yous as well to the people making these decisions, and wish the best of luck in solving the remaining issues such as customers with mixed regions of account and current location, and the fact that most if not all the options for payment are not available at certain parts of the world.


I know it's far from simple, and likely wont be easy, but I'm sure you can do it!
Thank you for listening, and your continued efforts in providing a service to the best quality you can.


ほんとにありがとうございます！
がんばれよ~


Kind Regards,
Dragoy (of Fenrir)
The Noob Unlimited


Edit:

Okay, now they've had the time to update the EU-site, but still nothing about this (disregarding twitter). However, I just did check what payment methods are offered now, and there would seem to be more now indeed, as they did state (for purchasing Crysta).

[RAIST]

EU POL site finally posting (8/25) the same changes are coming:

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11eu/detail/6992/detail.html

We wish to thank all our players for the support they have shown towards FINAL FANTASY XI.

We have taken your valuable feedback on board and, as a result, we are working hard in tandem with our US team to address any issues you may have encountered with the new billing system. To ensure that a number of significant improvements can be introduced, we have decided to extend the period to transfer accounts in order to benefit our customers in Europe as well as players in other countries.

- New credit card payment options for Crysta [Available Now]
- The option to specify exactly how much Crysta you want to buy [Early Autumn]
- New recurring payment credit card options [Mid Autumn]

We will continue to investigate other viable billing options suited to Europe and other countries and endeavour to keep you informed. We remain committed to providing our players with a FINAL FANTASY XI experience that is as rich, fun and exhilarating as possible.

Once again, we sincerely appreciate all of your ongoing support and hope you continue to have many more exciting adventures in the world of Vana'diel!

FINAL FANTASY XI Online Team – Europe

[Dragoy]

Indeed.


Well, I just transferred my other account as well a day or two ago, and now paying around 8-10€ more per month via UltimatePay via PayPal via PlaySpan, purchasing Crysta without any extra costs.
That's roughly 100€ ($144) per year. I used to be able to pay in USD for whatever reason so that's the reason it went up for me.

Not sure if I will be paying for long anymore anyways due to various reasons, nevertheless, I am glad to see they are indeed doing something about all this all around.

[Ahmed]

Crysta is sadly not available for everyone.
I want to see Paypal for everyone.
Or at least Crysta for everyone (since you can buy Crysta using Paypal)

[Arcon]

Or at least Crysta for everyone (since you can buy Crysta using Paypal)

SE can't do that, it's a legal issue. Many countries don't allow crysta. If they did, SE would offer it there as well.

[RAIST]

or in some cases, the country allows it, but requires you to treat virtual property like real property. Meaning, you have to issue refunds and what not--players in those areas have a legal right to virtual property they pay directly for (like Crysta), and SE can't arbitrarily take it a way without fair compensation like their ToS clearly states they can (thay can snatch it after your account goes idle for 1 year, immediately if you get dropped for violation, or they can just kill the system any time they want and don't have to refund a dime). So.... SE is simply not offering it to those areas.

[pim-ptarutaru]

I've been playing ffxi since ps2 release in America. thats what 7 years or something like that? my payments been fine till now. For some reason I get that my bill has not been paid. so I do the transfer for the new payandclick thing i pay off my fee, it was the last bit of my money on I had on my debit card till i get paid. I try and reactivate my account and it says I dont have enough money on my card. WTF! every time that I paid a unpaid balance I was still able to reactivate my char for the next month..... I'm at the end of my rope with SE on this one. I'm tired of them spiting in my face over crap like this. I was going to keep playing this game till its final days but F it! Think I'll just hold out till Diablo 3 or something. Its sad how this had to go down. Doubt I'll ever play another SE MMO or care to play another SE game... TBH most SE games are going down the drain and are complete garbage these days. I know SE prolly won't look at this post or even this thread. Its a sad shame they say they want to Liston to the community but pretty much just ignore us.

[Revanchist]

Does anyone know, if the cutoff for gamers who pay via direct payment was extended to October/November or is that still in place for the end of this month? I'd like to know whether I have to put money into my account to cover this or try to get a friend with a credit card to help out.

[Octaviane]

Does anyone know, if the cutoff for gamers who pay via direct payment was extended to October/November or is that still in place for the end of this month? I'd like to know whether I have to put money into my account to cover this or try to get a friend with a credit card to help out.

The extension is until mid-fall. I would have to assume that your current payment method will be fine.

Keeps fingers crossed.

[Kanjitai]

it's no big deal to me but it costs me 13.08 a month now to play if I pay through click and buy.

[Luso]

They charged me 25 cents more as a Foreign Transaction fee. So I end up paying $13.20 each month, apparently.

20 cents isn't a lot, but it will add up, and I remember reading that if I payed for XI through ClickandBuy and did nothing else with the ClickandBuy account (such as depositing a balance, etc), I shouldn't incur any extra fees. I wonder why I got charged extra, then. =(

[bmesft]

This says it all

Agent Paul Y: Hello and thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support. Just a few moments while I review your question, please.
Agent Paul Y: In order for us to more accurately address your issue, we will require additional information. Please give a brief explanation of the issue you are having and please include any error codes or messages you are receiving.
You: Hello
You: I am trying to reactivate my account, and I am now asked to use click and buy
You: when I try to activate I get this error
You: This offer is not activated for your country of origin.
You: My account is a US account, since I was living in US when I started playing, but now I moved to Netherlands so my CC is from here, what should I do ?
Agent Paul Y: It checks where you are currently playing from
Agent Paul Y: The options are dependant on where you are
You: I cannot get a US card anymore, so what can I do to change my SE account to EU?
Agent Paul Y: You can not
You: so I cannot play anymore?
Agent Paul Y: Unfortunately the payment method is dependant on your region
You: I understood that, then what should I do, I have been playing for years with an EU card and now I have to stop playing ?
Agent Paul Y: Once again the payment method is dependant on your region. You will need to pay for this account if you plan on continuing to play.
Agent Paul Y: Thank you for visiting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center! Take care and hope to see you online!
Agent Paul Y has disconnected.

[Meyi]

Even though they extended the billing issues, your account has been cut off unless you have switched to Crysta/ClickandBuy.

I just hope I still get the Chocobo Wand after all that I put up with last night. XD Would have had it done before midnight but...

[LordNick]

I live in the U.S. and only had options to pay through Clicknbuy or Ultimatepay. Even Crysta is only available one or the other for me. So I bought Crysta and no extra fees or anything so far. Sucks, but what can ya do. I linked my accounts before the announced deadline, hoping for the best. Figures it got extended afterward! Oh well.

[Joslyn]

Even though they extended the billing issues, your account has been cut off unless you have switched to Crysta/ClickandBuy.

I just hope I still get the Chocobo Wand after all that I put up with last night. XD Would have had it done before midnight but...
Actually they have extended the amount of time till we have to switch over, i tried today and im able to log in and play without transferring

[Sealdorie]

Actually they have extended the amount of time till we have to switch over, i tried today and im able to log in and play without transferring

My household has three accounts. One had been transferred while the other two had not. Of the two that had not yet transferred one was shut down and the other one was overcharged, but still stayed active. There is another thread on the boards talking about this issue. (Sept 1st is finally here I believe is the title)

[Jingizu]

Maybe if SE got smart, just do it through Paypal, it's easy and you don't even need a credit card or bank account, just greendot your cash every month. No risks that way at all.

[Theonemanarmy]

Just to asses the issue that we are getting screwed over on exchange rate (about 7% service fee for C&b and 6% for UP compare to 3% on Credit cards).

According to my province consumer law, we would be allowed to sue SE and C&B

[Leonlionheart]

Just to asses the issue that we are getting screwed over on exchange rate (about 7% service fee for C&b and 6% for UP compare to 3% on Credit cards).

According to my province consumer law, we would be allowed to sue SE and C&B

sue

inb4 the lock