Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[Bumbeen]

You should all just come play rift. I did. No billing problems here! (sorry I couldn't help myself ROFL!)

I had quit FFXI a long time ago, I started playing rift and then I quit to play FFXI instead.

[Tamoa]

(posting this here too since maybe others ran into this problem)

Yeah, this is confusing. I've had my click and buy registered since 2010 and had all ready added Square Enix Account Management System, card verified, the works. it's listed in the easy collect section AND did the walk through by SE before the first of this month and got emails that verify the transfer on july 27th but I still have not been billed yet. What gives? Even on my bank statements it isn't listed as a pending or completed transaction. If it were the old method I would have been billed on the 1st of this month no problem.

anyone else have this problem/fixed it?

When I look at my C&B account, it says this month's fee has been taken off my card and transferred to SE. But when I look at my bank statement, there is nothing that's been paid to C&B. Really confused.

[ceown]

But when I look at my bank statement, there is nothing that's been paid to C&B. Really confused.
Keep in mind that your bank may be a few days behind on updating your card transations. I just now got this months billing via direct billing posted by my bank.

[Tamoa]

Keep in mind that your bank may be a few days behind on updating your card transations. I just now got this months billing via direct billing posted by my bank.

They're not though. When I verified my card on C&B they charged me 2 small but different amounts. Showed up on my bank statement immediately. I don't use my Visa that much but any transactions always show up within 20 minutes at the most.

[Vhailor]

Obviously the nuances of the issue have been largely beaten to death in the thread, and suffice it to say I agree with the overwhelmingly negative majority. Just felt the need to add my name to the list of those who will likely be letting their characters expire if SE does not present a new billing system by the end of August.

It's just a matter of principle. You don't take an existing product and radically alter its billing procedure. Particularly when Japanese players are still given the old system. This feels like going to the gas station one day and seeing a sign saying "We're sorry, we no longer accept credit cards (unless you're a resident of California). You must pay either via cash or debit card ONLY. Both options may be done only within the store, and we will need to see your license, registration, and proof of insurance as well."

Then again, I guess if such a change were to happen, people would bike and walk a lot more than they do. Perhaps there's a silver lining for those of us forced out of FFXI as well.

[Misi]

When I look at my C&B account, it says this month's fee has been taken off my card and transferred to SE. But when I look at my bank statement, there is nothing that's been paid to C&B. Really confused.

I logged into click and buy, and they didn't take anything yet. I've made transactions with them before (for crysta in the past) and never had a problem, but they have not taken anything yet for this month. I didn't get payment denied like some people have gotten via email or anything. I made this change before the first and I am logged onto XI right now, so I don't know if that means it's fine or not. you'd think if it wasn't it would have locked out on the 1st.

[Arcon]

Just finished reading this 75 page behemoth of a thread. Can't really say much that hasn't been said before, but seeing as I can't log on anymore, I'll use this time and space to quote some parts that stood out in my two-hour long journey through this thread.


SE must be taking "How to lose customers 101"

I'm pretty sure they can teach it by now.


I don't know if they realize what a huge part of the population (and a huge part of their pure profit) people like waffles are. They essentially pay for a service that they don't use, and they'd keep paying for it if it wasn't for SE basically canceling their accounts for them.

This. The amount they'll lose just from those passive players who can't be bothered to deal with this (expensive) update is massive. The earthquake losses will pale in comparison. Go figure, SE does more damage to itself than a natural catastrophe.


Honestly, the REAL funny thing about all of this is that a TON of people that play FFXI don't even read these forums (or any FFXI-related forums for that matter). I'm sure these players aren't even thinking about transferring/registering their accounts atm.

Lucky them. I did, and I regret it. As of now, I can't play FFXI anymore.


So I want to tell people, if you do the transfer now, it very much seems like you have to start with one of the new payment methods come august. In just a few days. So if you're trying to hold on, DO NOT do anything regarding the transfer until after the august billing cycle.

You stop reading forums for a few days and miss something like this.


FACK YOU ClickandBuy!
FACK YOU UltimatePay!
YOU'RE COOL Playonline!
FACK YOU SQUARE-ENIX!

I'm out!

Just found it ironic how many people praise POL after this, considering what kind of reputation it had before today. This is coming from people who experienced that there is, in fact, a lot worse than what we had before. And considering what we had before, it shows just how bad these "upgrades" actually are.


So at the end of this billing cycle I guess both my accounts will be discontinued. It sucks, but concidering I'm usually the kind of person who just turns a blind eye to the retardedness and will pay a little extra just to keep going, and that even I can't be bothered with this shit, I'm figuring a lot of people will stop playing FFXI over this. Maybe if a lot of people feel and do the same, it wont take long (maybe a month or 2) for SE to realise they have no option but to add another method of payment.

Just sad to observe the effect this had on everyone. Even people I didn't expect it from (including myself). Even if I actually could fix it somehow and get back online again, I'm the kind of guy who puts up with insanity up to a certain point. This point, I'm afraid, has passed. And after that, I turn into a rebel and hope to sabotage whatever is wrong. Right now, I'd love for SE to go bankrupt and sit on the curb in front of their HQ are asking themselves what went wrong just to realize how much they've fucked up and that they should have listened to literally everyone and for once not assume that they know best, because they don't. Time and again they've proven that they know nothing, and the amount of mistakes they made just in the last year is mind-boggling, mistakes that no other company can match, not even any other individual that I'm aware of. I seriously don't know how they can come up with so many bad ideas. It's like they have an internal bet to see how much damage they can do before people start picking up on the fact that they're just a trolling company.

I know this is not a very productive emotional stage I'm in, but it will pass. Right now I'm just pissed off. As if it wasn't bad enough that now I (would) have to pay 17 Euros monthly instead of 13, but they won't even let me pay the 17 Euros at all. Talk about business strategies.


they don't have to go back on the POL system. They can use the same shell they are using for the JP payments, just put in the framework for the processors in the other regions. These apps pass xml code across a secured connection, so a large part of the environment is portable across multiple processors with minimal effort once you have the core design in place--which they already have done for the JP region. And yes, I do know a little something about this process as I managed the networking setup for this stuff for 4 years, and even took over the support desk for the divison my last year with that software firm.

They HAVE an established framework for implementation as evidenced by the JP options in the transfer.
They HAVE the established processors as evidenced by their merchandise site, supporting the JP clients, and previous POL.
They already have knowledfge of and met the checklists and can support the protocols for using 3DS, VbV and JSecure, as evidenced by them doing it with POL in the past, currently, and prepared to continue supporting it for the JP clients.

So... what's missing in the equation? They just have chosen NOT to extend it outside of the JP region.

Quoted for great justice. Wanted to quote all other RAIST-certified posts as well, but would have been too much work.


Dear SE,

We love your game. We hate your business. Please fix this.

Sincerely,
Your Loyal Fans

Quoted for saying it how it is.


Square is like one of those annoying vending machines that keeps spitting out your dollar. All you want is that damn bag of chips...

Quoted for sad truth.

[Tamoa]

I logged into click and buy, and they didn't take anything yet. I've made transactions with them before (for crysta in the past) and never had a problem, but they have not taken anything yet for this month. I didn't get payment denied like some people have gotten via email or anything. I made this change before the first and I am logged onto XI right now, so I don't know if that means it's fine or not. you'd think if it wasn't it would have locked out on the 1st.

I also made the change before the 1st of this month. Idk, seems to be such a mess across the board, and every day I log on now, I'm half expecting to find myself unable to because something regarding payment has gone wrong.

[Misi]

I also made the change before the 1st of this month. Idk, seems to be such a mess across the board, and every day I log on now, I'm half expecting to find myself unable to because something regarding payment has gone wrong.

ugh. so much anxiety over something as silly as a game payment. I hope all this gets resolved soon. thanks for your input though, I appreciate it.

[Twille]

I'm one of the individuals who will be allowing their account to 'expire' come the end of August. Everything about these new payment options seems off to me. I had a friend attempt to set up his new payment, only to have his bank deny it because it was "high risk". If that's the kind of company SE expects me to siphon my money through, you can forget it.
My RL friends and I have really enjoyed playing FFXI together over the years, we've had a lot of ridiculous adventures, a lot of laughs. I suppose we'll find something else soon enough.
Assuming SE ever gets this resolved, we'd love to come back!

[Dragoy]

My account is fine but my boyfriends account is stuck with July's fees of 13.95, but there is no way to pay for them. We can't account transfer until we pay the fees....
The PlayOnline Viewer should link to a page of SqEX Account, that enables one to pay the fees (by using Crystanonsense or ClipandBye). If there is an error message somewhere in-between... well, then I am afraid I can't help and it will be up to them to solve it. =\

I confirmed it myself with my second account. First went fine without a transfer yet, second was suspended even though the card is good and the money is good but either way, via POL Viewer, I would get to a page to pay the fees on.

This was without any transfers, but with both accounts linked to a SqEX Account. Moreover, I was forced to transfer the suspended one after paying the fees to be able to use PlayOnline Services again (even though it said I would be able to access them after paying the fees, but well, I guess it was just vague... a little TOO vague).

[InsideOut]

So I still haven't transferred my accounts and wasn't planning to until later this month, checked my bank statement and was billed twice the normal amount of what I should be. It's even four dollars more than last month, when I had my normal fee and then the added cost of Heroes of Abyssea that I bought. Come on SE, get your head in the game and fix this. Currently in que with chat support to see if they plan on refunding this... at least last month the charges were legit, not this month.


I was charged the regular $27.90 for both my accounts and then charged an additional $29.90 for IDK WTF for.

I'm waiting to talk to an online agent. I called but they seem to be in an even bigger queue.

I suggest that everyone check their banking account to see how much they charged you for this month.

[Vhailor]

I was charged the regular $27.90 for both my accounts and then charged an additional $29.90 for IDK WTF for.

I'm waiting to talk to an online agent. I called but they seem to be in an even bigger queue.

I suggest that everyone check their banking account to see how much they charged you for this month.

It's a secret plot on SE's part to make the new billing methods seem beneficial. >_>

[Sp1cyryan]

It's a secret plot on SE's part to make the new billing methods seem beneficial. >_>

Well when the beneficial part happens for us instead of SE then give me a call please.

[InsideOut]

It's a secret plot on SE's part to make the new billing methods seem beneficial. >_>
If I ever get through to them I'll let them know that its not working.

After I waited my turn in the online queue, it told me that were no available agents and to try again later.lol So I tried calling them again and the line was busy, as if it's a residential line...
Now I'm holding for a rep to answer...

[Bumbeen]

I won the lotto and all the payment methods work fine for me. I have one account on crysta, no extra charges, and one through click and buy, no extra charges, no fees, just works.

[InsideOut]

I won the lotto and all the payment methods work fine for me. I have one account on crysta, no extra charges, and one through click and buy, no extra charges, no fees, just works.

Its SquareEnixs problem. My ClickandBuy account is clean, nothing was charged and my bank statement shows that the charges were made by SquareEnix. Its like SquareEnix didn't use ClickandBuy and screwed up using the old system.

[MiriOhki]

Well afterhours last night of fighting with clickandpay I gave up and went the ult.game card route. At least with those I can just hit the 7 11 around the corner. Far less hassle

[Panthera]

I've just been playing "on faith" that this is going to be worked out in a way that's acceptable to the customer-base. The faith is based on their feedbacks as of late, that at least they're "working on it."

I honestly figured they would have come up with a fix by just last Monday. Here we are, end of Wednesday, and still nothing. The US budget crisis got worked out (for the moment) pretty last minute as well. I guess my real question is, how last minute is this going to get worked out?-with two weeks remaining, or two days? More to the point:...

Do people have faith that SE will fix this in a manner that is satisfactory to us, the paying customers?

I think most would like to see direct bills via credit card. But,

Would a PayPal option be good enough?

[Kalilla]

Do people have faith that SE will fix this in a manner that is satisfactory to us, the paying customers?
Honestly? If they haven't even tried to do anything by now they wont do it for some time. It is far more beneficial for them to put this off a week or two then let everyone back on the servers.

They get their monthly payment, and less server usage because those people cant play. They're going to milk this opportunity, just wait and see.

[RAIST]

they're probly running around with their heads cut off or butts on fire (possibly both) just trying to cover the billing snafus that just happened.

Which does not bode well for us....each day they have to focus on what went wrong with the new billing procedures may be a day's delay looking into bringing a direct payment option into play.

hope they've stocked up on the Red Bull... it's gonna be a loooong week for those guys.

[tifia]

Joining the no ClickandBuy bandwagon. The company has had issues with privacy in the past. And I never understood why a company would want to outsource their billings to a third party. It just eats into the profits. >.>

But all of the reasons have been said here and so much more. If SE is really forcing this upon us, then I don't know what I'm going to do. I refuse to use ClickandBuy. And Crysta would be a horrible replacement since I'll never be able to buy the exact amount I need to pay for a month, nor can I set up recurring payments. I understand that the company wants a more centralized system for when FF14 is up and running at full speed, but really it's just turning into a giant hassle to the consumers.

If we all stand together and say no on this issue, we have the power to change their minds. I know it doesn't seem like it, but they can't keep the game going without us, the people paying. We have that ability.

SE, please reconsider this insanity with ClickandBuy and Crysta.

And a suggestion to offer, why not offer a 3/6/9/12 month membership like other MMO's? If you buy 12 months, you get a discount over paying once a month, every month. I would make the effort into buying Crysta for 12 months if I got a slight discount in order to move to the new system. And! No more worries about payment because it'll be taken care of. I don't have to worry about logging in every month to add more Crysta to the account. Just throwing it out there.

[RAIST]

HMM....the discount idea could be taken little further: let crysta be a discount period.

If they are looking to do it in rounded dollars, then round it down for the subscriptions. This way, it's $12 USD for your first account if you are buying by crysta. This elimnates a large portion of the waste (making the fee a flat xx.00 for everyone), and would encourage more bulk buying up front. People could feel good about grabbing say $60 worth online to prepay in 5x lots (for single account, numbers would vary based on mules and such). The players get a discount for buying further in advance, while more easily breaking even on the purchased/spent ratios, and SE has a spot of walking change to work with to make changes for a few months.

eh... what am I thinking.... that might actually work to everyone's benefit somehow, so that won't happen.

[InsideOut]

If you guys read the new TOS then you'd know that SE are planning on making discounted advanced payments. They added a whole bunch of "IF"s surrounding the possibility.

[RAIST]

eh.. think those "IF"'s have been in there from day one.

Edit:
Yep... article 5.2, subsection (d) of the printed agreement that came with my first disc clearly states they have the right to change the fee at anytime, and that effective the first billing day after the announced date the new fee's take effect you are responsible to pay those fees for access if you do not terminate your account beforehand.

In short, they've maintained some sort of clause specifically indicating they can make changes to the pricing scheme at their discretion.

As a whole, the entire agreemeent is subject to SE's right to modify the agreement in any way at any time as they see fit in the same manner--they just have to post it and provide a future date to give us time to review the new terms and opt out prior to it taking effect.

[laos278]

I'd like to thank SE for this billing process; it's substantially helping/going to help with my abyssea crowding problem...till servers are merged again at least. So you see, they do listen. Let's not be so critical.

Even before the end of August deadline, out of like 10 ppl i know who still play this game, 3 found their IDs cancelled (one had CC expired). Rather than bother with the headache since they can't activate on pol anymore, they are just letting them stay cancelled indefinitely. Constructive feedback: ppl don't like to be inconvenienced.

[Alukat]

my opinion:

using a 3rd party for payment is like giving a stranger in a backalley my CC + pin and tell him to go over to a shop to buy me something.

nobody would do that irl, but why are people still signing in to those 3rd partys? :O

[Killia]

Click and Buy desn't seem to like any of my 4 email addresses. Why change something that has always worked. SE really needs to work this out and give us another option!!! I hate for this to be the end of playing FFXI, I really do. I would miss it, but i play other games as well. I refuse to buy Crysta.

360 gamertag: Next Try

[Lyrminas]

my opinion:

using a 3rd party for payment is like giving a stranger in a backalley my CC + pin and tell him to go over to a shop to buy me something.

nobody would do that irl, but why are people still signing in to those 3rd partys? :O

Some people need their E-Crack and will justify any shady business, they'll even jump in the fire to become white knights for SE.

[FrankReynolds]

They are just holding onto your 95 cents or w/e because its trivial to you but its a huge amount of interest for them annually. I dont like this set up, but my only real issue with it is that its causing tons of people to lose their accounts.

[Calexis]

I agree, this change is not what I'd call good business management, or good anything. How many people do they have to lose before they realize it's a bad idea?

[Jer]

I buy online from many different retailers, but I have never seen anything like this. My favorite vendor is Amazon. They have many 3rd party sellers, yet Amazon handles the credit card transactions. If one of the 3rd party sellers screws up and won't fix it, Amazon will step in and make it right.

Now with the new SE billing system we seem to have the exact opposite. They won't take the money anymore, but eventually they get the money. I am taking a wait and see position, kinda' like camping Leaping Lizzy!

[Lyrminas]

@Jer I also shop at amazon alot, I had so many things go wrong with third party company products dead on arrival and every time, Amazon replaced it with priority 1 day shipping all expenses paid, that's real customer service right there. Then you have click and buy oh man... never going to forgive them for triple charging me and the 2 month battle back and forth with my bank.

[Riker10a]

I used click and buy 2 times, with 2 different Visa debit cards. Bank Of America shut down both debit cards stating "Irregular Debit Card activity" and was telling me an online merchant, and would not say which one... But since I only used my Visa debit cards with Click and Buy, it has to be them. it did this to two different checking accounts. DO NOT USE CLICK AND BUY!! or you may have debit/credit card problems as well. Great job SE!! Mucking up the game for everyone 10 yrs later!! You should have setup PayPal for the USA users. Not have us going to sites in London UK or Germany to pay for our accounts. You should have left well enough alone. And the Visa debit cards being shut down from their, Click and Buy, site/billing didn't show up until a day later!! You're going to lose users in the USA if you don't straighten this out!!

a MORE THEN DISGRUNTLED USER/MEMBER SINCE 2004! Nice way to treat us!!

[Runespider]

In all the years and annoyances (most of which were in the last couple of years..) I've never seriously considered just quitting and going off onto another game, I have to say the fact I'm seriously considering it lately bodes ill for the playerbase at large. If someone as addicted as me is considering it then a lot of wavering, bored with no content players are surely seriously considering it (only content this game has left for serious players is get more emps). There could very well be a huge hit to the playerbase over the next few months and i'm not sure they will be able to recover them either.

Can't believe how clueless they are about the mentality of MMO players, baffles the mind how big of a company this is and just how little idea they have wtf they are doing. The rage seen across all the forums is nothing, the vast majority of players still have no idea they won't be able to log in soon, the raging has yet to even begin. I hope they realise that.

[Tamoa]

This month's fee finally showed up on my bank statement, charged by Click&Buy. But hey, what do you know, looks like I've been charged by POL aswell. Never in all the years I've been playing this game, have I been charged double/incorrect or had any other problems with payments. Guess it was my turn now.

[Alukat]

looks like I've been charged by POL aswell.

SE didn't tell POL that the payment isn't anymore in their hands? :O

[Niyariko]

I was on a call with a couple of friends on skype last night, one successfully transferred his account, one was in the process of TRYING to work out CnB and Paypal (without success at the end), and me waiting for SE to add Direct Payment. Then we had a conversation on what games should we try, and any SE games wasn't in our minds, our conclusion was, wait until TERA comes out while we try RIFT. XD Your business decisions lately was driving us away.

SE need to hurry and add direct payment just like what we had in POL before is too late. Once ppl leave, they usually don't return, no matter how many "Return Home to Vana'diel" campaign with lame in-game items you are throwing out at us. Since they can't pay you.

[Tamoa]

SE didn't tell POL that the payment isn't anymore in their hands? :O

I'll be damned if I know, this is just one hell of a mess. Since not everybody has transferred yet, I assume POL is still up and running as far as payments go, and I've been charged by both. -.-

[Aver]

I'll be damned if I know, this is just one hell of a mess. Since not everybody has transferred yet, I assume POL is still up and running as far as payments go, and I've been charged by both. -.-

POL is still up, 'till the end of the month. It's next month that *everyone* has to change over. Thankfully I didn't get doublebilled this month as well, idk wtf happened with your account :(

[katz]

Is there any official reason why SE didnt just use the international secure payment system ie PayPal. Its not that hard to set up as a vendor and make people to pay through it.

[Pawkeshup]

Is there any official reason why SE didnt just use the international secure payment system ie PayPal. Its not that hard to set up as a vendor and make people to pay through it.Because you have to pay to use a PayPal vendor account, whereas we have to pay to use C&B.

Lovely, isn't it.

Also SE, someone was triple charged this month by C&B. HAY LOOK IT'S WARHAMMER ONLINE ALL OVER AGAIN!

[Octaviane]

Another question SE is going to have to address is why, when people call Customer Service, they are kept on hold for an indiscriminate amount of time, then get the message that no-one is available to talk to them, please call back later. It's been said before and I repeat, a 24/7 game needs 24/7 support.

"It's 9 of the clock and all is (NOT) well! Do you know where your SE representatives are?"

[Tamoa]

Just quoting my own post in another thread with proof that I got charged double this month. Now please, Rosina and everybody else defending this new payment system, just shut up, ok? It's painfully obvious it's NOT working. And for the record, I'm one of those people whose ONLY option was Click&Buy.


Double charged, seems I have paid both via Click&Buy and the normal way to POL. Not deactivated or reactivated anything.

Edit:

As for Rosina insinuating that we lie, here is proof of me being charged double:

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad265/Tamoa_photos/Doublechargedforaugust-1-1.jpg

Of course it has been cropped to show only the relevant transactions (and 1 not-so-relevant lol).

The difference in the sums are due to 2 things - Click&Buy and POL probably don't use identical rate of exchange, and also as you can see, Click&Buy charged me 2 small amounts when I verified the account, which then was credited my account with them.

And let me add that in all the years I have played this game, I have never had ANY payment issues whatsoever.

[Runespider]

I was on a call with a couple of friends on skype last night, one successfully transferred his account, one was in the process of TRYING to work out CnB and Paypal (without success at the end), and me waiting for SE to add Direct Payment. Then we had a conversation on what games should we try, and any SE games wasn't in our minds, our conclusion was, wait until TERA comes out while we try RIFT. XD Your business decisions lately was driving us away.

This exactly where I and some friends are atm, looking through whats out there to move to. If PSO2 or Tera were out now we would probably be already gone cause of the stupid changes with Square, as it is we are still looking. Rift is a possibility though if I get anymore annoyed over trying to throw money at SquareEnix.

[Niyariko]

This exactly where I and some friends are atm, looking through whats out there to move to. If PSO2 or Tera were out now we would probably be already gone cause of the stupid changes with Square, as it is we are still looking. Rift is a possibility though if I get anymore annoyed over trying to throw money at SquareEnix.

Well, I just wanna bring out a point that, even if someone successfully transferred their account and with no issue with CnB nor Playspan, if couple of their friends can't play, they will leave too.

PS: PSO2 is a good choice too, I love PSO on Dreamcast XD.

[Revanchist]

PS: PSO2 is a good choice too, I love PSO on Dreamcast XD.

I still have my trusty Dreamcast... may have to boot that up soon. That's something else which some people may end up doing... this whole debacle may give many people the wrong impression about SE in general and could conceivably inhibit future sales of games/products with SE's logo on them.

Honestly, I do hope this gets sorted out in the next week or so... but knowing our luck, probably won't. Still... have a few games coming up I can spend my time (and money) on... money which would've gone to SE.

[Runespider]

PS: PSO2 is a good choice too, I love PSO on Dreamcast XD.

I loved it too! Played it for quite a few years so I have high hopes for PSO2, especially after watching the videos, I think it might actually come out before Tera the way it appears to be going.

[Romanova]

Another question SE is going to have to address is why, when people call Customer Service, they are kept on hold for an indiscriminate amount of time, then get the message that no-one is available to talk to them, please call back later. It's been said before and I repeat, a 24/7 game needs 24/7 support.

"It's 9 of the clock and all is (NOT) well! Do you know where your SE representatives are?"

eh, I dunno if they have to go that far, but at least customer service in timezones that make sense for said countries.

Even Blizzard doesn't have 24/7 customer service. Not to say everyone has to be like Bliz, but they do know what they're doing (unlike SE) and considering how much money they make off of WoW, if even they don't see a need it kinda says something.

[Esvedium]

My wife and I aren't transferring any of our accounts over until there is a direct bill to a CC option like there has been for us both for the last 7 and a half years. I refuse to use click&buy, and I'm also not going to overpay for the game with Crysta and be forced to give my CC info to a 3rd party for the "privilege" or overpaying with said Crysta.

If/when SE gets their head out of their ass on this whole billing debacle, we might come back. Until then, I have plenty of games I've neglected over the years that I could be playing for free.

t(-.-t)

[Neika]

My wife and I aren't transferring any of our accounts over until there is a direct bill to a CC option like there has been for us both for the last 7 and a half years. I refuse to use click&buy, and I'm also not going to overpay for the game with Crysta and be forced to give my CC info to a 3rd party for the "privilege" or overpaying with said Crysta.

If/when SE gets their head out of their ass on this whole billing debacle, we might come back. Until then, I have plenty of games I've neglected over the years that I could be playing for free.

t(-.-t)

Same here. I'm not going to give out my CC info to some third party so my boyfriend and I can keep playing. I don't like them, and don't trust them. Bring back direct billing SE, or you may find yourselves losing a LOT of players.

[Airget]

<_< honestly it would just be a lot smart to at least keep the option that is currently being used. Perhaps if they truly don't want new customers just allow those that have been playing the game before the change the option to keep using the monthly billing service since the other two options do suck. Being double charged like shown in a previous message just proves how unorganized this whole fiasco is, you would think that SE would at least be notified that they switch to PoL and disable the PoL charge but they didn't.

it's surprising how much longer this thread has gotten but the reps haven't stepped up to say anything since the whole "you won't be charged by CnB cause they do it through la dee da" and yet afterwards there have been responses in which people have had issues with CnB in terms of debit cards being disabled and double charged by two companies for the same product.

Honestly even if XIV was hot stuff when it came out people still would not have subscribed because of the same exact issue we are having now. Hello SE recall when you said you would look into other methods of payment? Well it's been nearly a year and yet it would appear you have done nothing to even remotely attempt to find other methods of payment like you said you would look into.

Sure it's only the beginning of August but hopefully they will take these outcries seriously and actually light the fire under their butts to seriously look into a more well known and trusted payment system. Heck someone mentioned how the company has to pay to use paypal, I don't see why SE can't use paypal since they don't seem to have a problem bleeding money from keeping the XIV servers up and running lol. Compared to even keeping 1 server up I doubt it cost that much to use paypal as an option though maybe it does lol.

[Octaviane]

eh, I dunno if they have to go that far, but at least customer service in timezones that make sense for said countries.

Even Blizzard doesn't have 24/7 customer service. Not to say everyone has to be like Bliz, but they do know what they're doing (unlike SE) and considering how much money they make off of WoW, if even they don't see a need it kinda says something.

How about 23/7? Then they could have an hour of "outside" time each day. :) Kidding, because I see your point.

[Pawkeshup]

eh, I dunno if they have to go that far, but at least customer service in timezones that make sense for said countries.

Even Blizzard doesn't have 24/7 customer service. Not to say everyone has to be like Bliz, but they do know what they're doing (unlike SE) and considering how much money they make off of WoW, if even they don't see a need it kinda says something.WoW also offers billing options for "buying in bulk" and prepaying for 6 months and a year at a time, offering a good discount and guaranteeing revenue even if the player quits.

SE, however, have some pretty "interesting" people working for them if they cannot understand how badly they've screwed up.

Also, bump.

[RAIST]

I still have my trusty Dreamcast... may have to boot that up soon. That's something else which some people may end up doing... this whole debacle may give many people the wrong impression about SE in general and could conceivably inhibit future sales of games/products with SE's logo on them.

Honestly, I do hope this gets sorted out in the next week or so... but knowing our luck, probably won't. Still... have a few games coming up I can spend my time (and money) on... money which would've gone to SE.

The next release of another one of Blizzard's highly addictive franchises is going into testing too... just put in my bid for D3 Beta. If I get sucked into that game and my current FFXI sub times out because the system is still FUBAR at the end of the month, I likely won't be inclined to come back to FFXI for quite a while since a lot of my friends are already talking about taking a break for a while because of this crap coupled with not really having any real goals left within FFXI to justify the drama and headaches.

I really only have one thing I REALLY want to do atm, and that's finish my current WAR body piece...everything else (like capping parry or guard, leveling sub-crafts, etc.) is really just busy work, and helping others get their crap done. If I get cut off, I plan on being gone at least until really good new content comes out for FFXI and/or they fix this payment crap. If it's still dodgy payment methods, I likely won't be inclined to come back if I've found something else I'm enjoying that is hassle free (unless my friends are harrasing me to no end...heheh).

But, that may just be me... who knows if others may be of the same mind and how many, remains to be seen.

Clock is ticking SE......and you have some really stiff competition knocking at the door.

[Alukat]

oh yeah diablo III

[Revanchist]

The next release of another one of Blizzard's highly addictive franchises is going into testing too... just put in my bid for D3 Beta. If I get sucked into that game and my current FFXI sub times out because the system is still FUBAR at the end of the month, I likely won't be inclined to come back to FFXI for quite a while since a lot of my friends are already talking about taking a break for a while because of this crap coupled with not really having any real goals left within FFXI to justify the drama and headaches.

I've read about that on another forum I'm a member of. I played WoW for a couple of months a few years ago, but couldn't get into it. I may have to give it another look methinx. But with Warhammer 40K Space Marine, Assassin's Creed Revelations and Saints Row The Third, I'm gonna be busy (Specially in March next year... MASS EFFECT 3 BABEH!! (Yes... I'm a Mass Effect Fan(atic))


I really only have one thing I REALLY want to do atm, and that's finish my current WAR body piece...everything else (like capping parry or guard, leveling sub-crafts, etc.) is really just busy work, and helping others get their crap done. If I get cut off, I plan on being gone at least until really good new content comes out for FFXI and/or they fix this payment crap. If it's still dodgy payment methods, I likely won't be inclined to come back if I've found something else I'm enjoying that is hassle free (unless my friends are harrasing me to no end...heheh).

I'm only after the last 4 leg seals and 6 hand seals for my WHM AF3+1... as well as the Serpentes Boots then I can say I'm done. Like to get the rest of the seals for my DRK AF3+1 and WAR AF3+1... but I doubt that'll happen :(

Honestly, with only 40% of Vana'diel which has been explored, there's a LOT of new areas to have adventures in (The rest of the Aht Urghan continent, the Mithra homeland to the south, the Orc and Gigas homeland to the north and the Elvaan homeland to the west). I honestly hope some new content comes out to keep FFXI alive, as with WoW's new expansion, not to mention the dreadnaught that is The Old Republic (coming early next year), FFXI needs new content desperately.

But... with this new payment plan forced on us, who's to say that there'll be enough of a population to support it?


Clock is ticking SE......and you have some really stiff competition knocking at the door.

It's the 5th of August here... SE has 26 days left to sort this out...

[Vhailor]

I've read about that on another forum I'm a member of. I played WoW for a couple of months a few years ago, but couldn't get into it. I may have to give it another look methinx. But with Warhammer 40K Space Marine, Assassin's Creed Revelations and Saints Row The Third, I'm gonna be busy (Specially in March next year... MASS EFFECT 3 BABEH!! (Yes... I'm a Mass Effect Fan(atic))

I'll probably be taking this route, going back to more single-player titles than finding a new MMO. Deus Ex appeals to me in particular (though I'm very loathe to purchase titles that SE is publishing at the moment... bit of a conundrum).


Honestly, with only 40% of Vana'diel which has been explored, there's a LOT of new areas to have adventures in (The rest of the Aht Urghan continent, the Mithra homeland to the south, the Orc and Gigas homeland to the north and the Elvaan homeland to the west). I honestly hope some new content comes out to keep FFXI alive, as with WoW's new expansion, not to mention the dreadnaught that is The Old Republic (coming early next year), FFXI needs new content desperately.

I was waiting for this to be brought up. I agree, of course; I actually think FFXI could still be a relevant player in the MMO world if SE had treated it better. Graphics most certainly aren't critical to an MMO's success. Just look at how popular WoW is with its cartoon-y style looks and the resulting lack of detail. Not to mention, FFXI remains one of the only MMOs available on consoles; that alone adds a lot to their user base.

Sadly, SE won't be focusing any further efforts on FFXI I think, except destructive ones such as this billing change. They're fairly convinced it's not in their best business interests, and at this point in time I'd probably agree. Their actions over the past five years have started nailing shut FFXI's coffin; you can't suddenly about-face and start putting effort into the game at this point. New players aren't going to be attracted no matter what happens, for the most part. Not to mention...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-25-square-enix-has-a-new-mmo-to-announce

Which is quite stunning, really. Especially considering how badly they've dropped the ball just this month. They must be actively trying not to learn from their mistakes... but either way, they sure won't be committing development resources to FFXI with whatever this is on the way.


It's the 5th of August here... SE has 26 days left to sort this out...

This. I'm not sure what their response will be, if any, but I'm quite eager to see how it plays out regardless. The cynical part of me feels it's going to be a slow-motion train wreck, but, who knows? SE has the ability to surprise me still (even if it's in a negative way).

[Arcon]

Sadly, SE won't be focusing any further efforts on FFXI I think, except destructive ones such as this billing change. They're fairly convinced it's not in their best business interests, and at this point in time I'd probably agree. Their actions over the past five years have started nailing shut FFXI's coffin; you can't suddenly about-face and start putting effort into the game at this point. New players aren't going to be attracted no matter what happens, for the most part. Not to mention...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-25-square-enix-has-a-new-mmo-to-announce

Which is quite stunning, really. Especially considering how badly they've dropped the ball just this month. They must be actively trying not to learn from their mistakes... but either way, they sure won't be committing development resources to FFXI with whatever this is on the way.

Oh dear god..... please, someone from SE come in here and tell us this isn't real. Don't bring another MMORPG out, XIV nearly killed you, the next one will for sure, I'll guarantee it. For once listen to everyone, because everyone except for you is right.. I'm at a lack of words, if they go through with it they'll lose all respect they have left from me (which, sadly, isn't much at this point). Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't. Listen to us, to everyone else, for once in your life.

[RAIST]

that link stalled on load for me for some reason.. but I remember getting some emails a while back that they had another MMO in the works. Didn't open them though--I usually just send them to a squeenix folder (which I clean up often without ever reading their crud, it's always posted on the portal anyway). And I agree...they need to clean up there act and fix their existing ones first.

found it:

http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg

First bulletin, from today:

Notice: Regarding Account Security
2011-08-04 04:00
Over the weekend (of 7/29/11), we were made aware of some unauthorized activity within Ankama's database servers. We here, at Square Enix, Inc. are currently working closely with Ankama to investigate the details and to determine the full scope of the incident.

Ankama has confirmed that no financial information was compromised as all payment processing and related services are handled by external, third party partners, with extra security barriers intact.
http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg/community/news/9845-notice-regarding-account-security

/sigh

[Eldelphia]

Just posting to add two more voices to the frustration over Click & Buy. I was really pleased to be moving to a web-based system but in the end have resorted to using some exisiting Crysta I bought when I was going to play XIV.

Unfortunately I set up my own account back then (or at least tried to) but because Noscript (browser plugin) interfered I then had to call C&B. Unfortunately they want me to send highly personal details (passport or driving licence + bank statement + utility bill) to them electronically before they unlock my account. I then tried to help my friend set up HIS account and because there was a C&B cookie on my machine, they flagged it as a possible duplicate account and locked his before he even finished. He's been told the same thing.

1) I have no idea who Click & Buy are and am very reluctant to send this information to them. Even if they are a global organisation they're not a familiar/household name in the UK

2) I'm really uncomfortable sending them this information by email...

3) I'm happy enough to add Crysta but having to manually do this every month is going to drive me nuts.

4) I'm getting reports of fellow players having issues with their banks... and Click & Buy.

5) For the love of Altana, why didn't you use Paypal?

[Runespider]

Still no word on even planned changes, gg Square. Keep everyone waiting and see just how bad this can get before making any changes..

[Niyariko]

I'm going to start my count down macro :p

/wait 26 (days for se to announce they are accepting direct credit card payment on SEAM.)

[Nvr]

Checked billing statement, I was charged 42 cent "International Transaction Fee". Which is not much, but it is lame.

[Ajirha]

i could just not read all the post... As far as i know from other ppl in my shell, transfering the account to SE and having to creat a C&B account to pay also make you pay with your local currency.
when i tranferred my alt and went through the procedure for it, i didnt realized it sincei was already paying in euros but for my main, i've been paying in USD from the start and i dont want to transfert to euros. i see no reason to suddenly add a +50% to my fees (and i prefer to pay the extra 5% carged by my bank for international money transfer.)

Is there a way around? to keep paying in usd i mean.

Do we have to go through the transfert? we are baited like stupid kids with a not really sweet looking 1 week use only reward and i dont want to pay an extra 10 usd for this s*. (equivalent of usd if i go from my 23$ to 23€...)
For my alt due to SE failed payment methode confusing credit card nature i was down to pay month by month manualy and ended up not being able to pay for august till i made the transfert but for my main it's still automated and i'd rather not move to C&B? actually i'd like to not use it for my alt either. and i dont like the crysta system at all. it's been stated a hundred time alredy but i dont feel like being the bank for SE and pay for the programming and hudge management mistake they made with FFXIV and other games.

last point : i checked my € payment, no international fee there from C&B or my bank.

[Reaux]

I am having a ridiculously difficult time setting up my account information with Click and Buy. I tried back when I was planning on playing XIV and after a week of fighting with C&B and my bank the matter wasn't resolved and I bought Crysta instead because it was slightly easier.

Seriously worst company to deal with ever. They made a simple online payment process the most arduous thing known to man.

[Aleste]

I posted previously in this topic about how much difficulty I was having with Click and Buy, and I've been keeping my eye in this thread and on my bank statement for any peculiar charges.

Anyways, I logged into my banks online tracker to see if i can find out what exactly I've been charged for over the past month and I noticed a charge for £2.40 from Click and Buy.

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r465/Alestethewhitemage/clickandbuy.jpg
Any ideas what this charge is for?


http://www.clickandbuy.com/UK/en/sa/help/pages/04369.html&bereich=surfer&popup=
Click and Buy has a 'fee table' that charges:

3.9% for 'risk premiums'
An un-numbered 'handling fee'
£25.00 for chargebacks
£1.50 for 'disbursement risk premiums'

And no mention of a £2.50 charge... unless they charged me £64 for something and that 2.50 is the risk premium (3.9%)



I can't wait for my printed detail bank statement to arrive in the door to figure out what the hell is going on. If something shady is going on with Click and Buy, I'm going to have to change my bank account number and sit back until this whole mess is absolved.

[Reaux]

It also bothers me that they are treating the JP region differently than the rest of the world, AGAIN! I don't understand why they get direct payment to SE and the rest of us do not. I also don't see why they get to pay in exact amounts of crysta and we cannot. Some things I understand treating region differently because of culture. But billing is the same in pretty much every country so why they get special and more convenient treatment while we get stuck with this mess is more than just unfair it is rude and biased.

SE I want to give you my money, but why are you over charging me in Crysta and making it so difficult for direct payment? Also, why did you pick a company with such shady business practices, did you not do you research into different billing companies and their practices AND their history with consumers?

[tifia]

I know a few people have brought it up before, but it's amazing that nearly a year later after SE has said they would look into alternate payment systems after the huge uprising on FFXIV (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/98856-ClickAndBuy-Impressions-%28Click-Ultimate-Pay-then-choose-PayPal.%29), that they are still trying to push this method on us. I remember when they had a letter from a producer, or it may have been a forum communication (unfortunately I JUST received my computer back from a month of repairs so I no longer have the link, but if I find it, I'll post it).

And it's quite clear that they didn't bother to follow up with their customer's concerns.

It saddens me. I've been loyal to this game for 7 years, through all of the ups and downs. And I'd love to keep playing. But this change in billing is inconvenient, disruptive, and inefficient. I have no faith in ClickandBuy in being a responsible company after reading the numerous issues it has gone through in the past. (PayPal is no better. Trust me.) And the use of Crysta is equally a hassle, and having to check on it month to month is even more annoying. I've even heard from a few people with debit cards that they can't get either method to work. So not only are there e-mail issues, double billing issues, suspension of POL and ClickandBuy accounts, but now we also have to consider that our method of payment may not be accepted? I can't run out and get another credit card just to play this game.

I've spent the last month in absolute boredom without FFXI while my laptop was being repaired. I missed my linkshell-mates. I missed my friends. I missed the fun of going out and having an adventure in Vana'diel. And this is the lovely welcome back that I received from SE. Move you stuff to ClickandBuy, or don't bother coming back.

Unfortunately, the options being provided are skeptical, inconvenient, and cause more headaches then necessary. So I won't renew next month and let my character rest in peace in her Mog House until SE reconsiders. Please devs. I hope you're reading and seeing what a huge mistake you're making. You've got until August 31st to make the right decision.




On that note, to those of us who are saying "we're not going to transfer - we're not going to play anymore," please follow through with this!

Saying it is one thing. Acting upon it is another. If we all stand together and say "No! We don't accept the changes and we will not pay!" and not do the transfer and not pay for next month, we can make a difference! SE depends on us, the users, to keep this game alive. If a large number of us stop playing all at once, it WILL GET THEIR ATTENTION. We have rights as consumers to let companies know if we don't agree with their practices. Money talks. And if SE isn't making money from us, they'll listen. So please, make sure that if you're saying you won't transfer, that you stay true to your word.





Edit: Unsure if this has been posted yet, but here is the FFXIV petition against ClickandBuy (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/14581-Terrible-Payment-System).

[Souljacker]

Now you all know what we went through when XIV launched.

[Reaux]

Well SE is trying to double bill me for this month....through crysta! Tried setting up click and buy, wasnt working. Decided to let it rest for a couple days. Tried this morning still issues and I went through this before for XIV before deciding to add crysta. Now I got frustrated purchased Crysta to reactivate my POL account and it deducted the full 12.95....but that didn't include reactivating my character...like if when you pay direct via debit/credit you don't ALSO have to reactivate your character ID.

So now after POL has been reactivated, the also want me to pay 12.95 AGAIN to reactivate my character. Why is this so difficult? I pay 12.95 that activates my account with 1 content ID the way it has always been.....

[Souljacker]

Well SE is trying to double bill me for this month....through crysta! Tried setting up click and buy, wasnt working. Decided to let it rest for a couple days. Tried this morning still issues and I went through this before for XIV before deciding to add crysta. Now I got frustrated purchased Crysta to reactivate my POL account and it deducted the full 12.95....but that didn't include reactivating my character...like if when you pay direct via debit/credit you don't ALSO have to reactivate your character ID.

So now after POL has been reactivated, the also want me to pay 12.95 AGAIN to reactivate my character. Why is this so difficult? I pay 12.95 that activates my account with 1 content ID the way it has always been.....

That sounds more like a bug than anything. I ended up reactivating using Crysta, and it wanted 1195 Crysta to reactivate, and 100 for the first content ID. That's kind of how they have always done it. Does it make sense to charge 11.95 for absolutely nothing? No, but that's how they do it.

Click and Buy is a joke and I can't believe that they would force it on people. I tried to use it when XIV launched, and they were charging me strange fees so I wanted to close my account. It took 3 "lost" faxes, 5 emails, and some very strongly worded threats to involve the Attorney General of my state to get my account closed.

Click and Buy is a nightmare. SE needs to go back to the good old days of just accepting peoples' credit cards. It's ridiculous.

[Reaux]

That sounds more like a bug than anything. I ended up reactivating using Crysta, and it wanted 1195 Crysta to reactivate, and 100 for the first content ID. That's kind of how they have always done it. Does it make sense to charge 11.95 for absolutely nothing? No, but that's how they do it.

Click and Buy is a joke and I can't believe that they would force it on people. I tried to use it when XIV launched, and they were charging me strange fees so I wanted to close my account. It took 3 "lost" faxes, 5 emails, and some very strongly worded threats to involve the Attorney General of my state to get my account closed.

Click and Buy is a nightmare. SE needs to go back to the good old days of just accepting peoples' credit cards. It's ridiculous.

I know! My bank out right refused to accept charges from Click & Buy so I cant charge it to any account through them. C&B also asks for some rather sensitive info to be e-mailed or faxed to them which I just don't feel comfortable doing and don't see as necessary for a service like this, I am trying to set a continuous fee to a game, not buy property. It all just seems too overly complicated and shifty to deal with under a regular basis.


The other odd thing about my situation, which is why I think it is more than a bug and moreso bad design, is that it should register at minimum that I paid for POL itself to be activated and each character ID = 100 Crysta. I have that amount in my account after the initial 1,295 Crysta withdrawl to get POL back....so why is it trying to charge the full 12.95 again either way?

It charged me the amount at account transfer, says that POL is active, but just my characters are not. I can even log into POL but cannot play since I have no content ID. Why can't it simply allow me to deduct that 100 Crysta needed for that 1 character, at which point I would be over paying anyway at 13.95 when I don't have a mule. See as they also don't give you a proper account tracking system I also cant see how much crysta I had, that amount after I added some more, the amount deducted and for what service. I can see how much I currently have, and how much I bought.....that is it. The rest of the info is not logged and viewable from what I can see.

[mistmonster]

I haven't really played since this announcement, I'm just insulted I guess. /sigh another Friday and nothing except "please provide your feedback"

[lllen]

Well, first I am charged by POL for 15.95 as usual, then I was charged by CB with an additional fee. The POl disappeared thank god, since all payments were in hold. The funny part is that I thought I had set up for crysta and put crysta in my account, but turns out I set myself up to go cc. This will change.


edit: CB just advised me it was my bank who charged for international fee...the corner drug store sells Ulitimate game cards...that is where i'm headed, pass it everyday to work.

[Esvedium]

I haven't really played since this announcement, I'm just insulted I guess. /sigh another Friday and nothing except "please provide your feedback"

I've logged once or twice... All motivation in-game went out the window.

[Alukat]

finally a replay:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11819-EU-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Payment-Procedures-FAQ-%2805-08-11%29


A: Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.

so your company doesn't trust its own employees / security system?

so how can we trust you, if u don't even trust yourself? :x

[Byrth]

I think the most relevant question from that thread was actually this:


Q: Do Square Enix plan to make further payment providers available to customers?
A: While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we are continuing to look for ways to improve the payment processing options. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.

Looks like you guys can skip the 26 day countdown. They aren't going to do anything in time.

[mistmonster]

Wow, that whole post was a slap in the face. I feel for the rep that has to post it... sort of

[Niyariko]

finally a replay:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11819-EU-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Payment-Procedures-FAQ-%2805-08-11%29


so your company doesn't trust its own employees / security system?

so how can we trust you, if u don't even trust yourself? :x


Your external company doesn't work. You are loosing your customers because of the external company, this is a bad business decision.

Deep down in SE’s heart, they know this isn't the answer we want to hear, they know it, give us the direct CC payment. I don't see how your choice of external company offer highest level of security. CnB is more of a scam. :mad:

So what about the JP region? They have direct payment, so they do not deserve highest security? You should offer them CnB instead of Direct payment then!

Unacceptable reply, please consider going back to your conference room and come up with a better plan, thank you.

[Arcon]

Looks like you guys can skip the 26 day countdown. They aren't going to do anything in time.

That's the same same reply they already gave us a while ago, which is basically their go-to response for people they don't wanna deal with at the time (or ever).

[Selamis]

Originally Posted by Bayohne
A: Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.

HORSECRAP, this is nothing about security to customer transactions, given the reputation Click and Buy has. Come on SE, your players/customers aren't stupid.

[RAIST]

We have added a few more articles to our Square Enix Support Centre and I wanted to make sure they were posted here as well to have a greater chance of exposure.


Q: Will FFXI/XIV users paying via C&B be subject to any additional administration or credit card usage charges?
A: As a FFXI/XIV subscription takes direct payments from a user's chosen payment method, it is not necessary to store funds in the ClickandBuy account. Therefore the charges outlined below will not be applicable to anybody simply using their C&B account to pay for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription. Should a customer wish to use their ClickandBuy account for additional services, additional fees may be incurred. For more information on these, please refer to http://clickandbuy.com/GB_en/

Users may incur various charges when utilising a C&B account. These include but are not limited to the following:
- ClickandBuy charges a 'pre-loading' fee of 3.9% of any transaction into your ClickandBuy account when using a credit card.
- There is a handling fee charged for withdrawal of funds from a ClickandBuy account of £1.85/€1.85.
- If a ClickandBuy account has been inactive for 1 year and contains funds, a maintenance fee of £1.00/€1.00 may be charged.

Please note players paying for their FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV subscription in a currency other than EUR or GBP will be subject to a foreign exchange rate of 5.9% per transaction.


Q: Do Square Enix plan to make further payment providers available to customers?
A: While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we are continuing to look for ways to improve the payment processing options. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.


Q: Why is Crysta not available in all countries?
A: Crysta is restricted to certain EU territories due to legal and financial regulations. However Crysta may become available for additional regions in the future.


Q: Why are some countries not supported by ClickandBuy?
A: Restrictions are in place for countries with whom the EU are prevented from trading with through sanctions or to those where FINAL FANTASY XI or XIV is not supported. Any problems with ClickandBuy registration in supported countries should be escalated to ClickandBuy customer services at http://clickandbuy.com/GB_en/contact.html


Q: Why is Square Enix switching from the PlayOnline billing setup to Square Enix Account billing?
A: Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.

Still no acknowledgement of the fact that some people have had their currency method changed (mandatory switch to euro has resulted in up to roughly a 43% bump in the contracted price for some areas)

Still no acknowledgement of the discrimination against all non-JP regions.

And lastly, SECURITY????!!!!....did they REALLY just claim this change was due to SECURITY CONCERNS????!!! Then how in the h3ll can you justify storing the JP credit card information on your servers and no one elses???!!! You are STILL open to the SAME security issues regardless if it is JP, EU, or NA information stored on your servers. Regulations may be different in JP vs US or EU--but the ATTACK VECTORS REMAIN THE SAME REGARDLESS OF REGION.

Let me say it again for emphasis:

server security is NOT a regional variance--that is a UNIVERSAL TECHNOLOGY ISSUE.

WHY ARE DIFFERENT RULES APPIED TO ONLY THE JP REGION?




EPIC FAIL.



One more nail in the coffin..... 26 days and counting.

[Niyariko]

What is SE's address again? we need to pay them a visit :p

[Arcon]

What is SE's address again? we need to pay them a visit :p

Had to think of this:
http://bash.org/?577451

[RAIST]

more fuel to the fire showing SE just doesn't get it. Sent a message through SE's support portal over the non-JP regions being denied direct pay CC option while JP region still has it. Took them roughly a week to respond with this:


Dear Customer,

Regarding your request for billing support. Please find your answer below.

Square Enix Crysta

For more details regarding Crysta, please visit:
http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/
You can purchase Crysta using credit card or debit card via ClickandBuy International Ltd., or PayPal® or Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.
Crysta can be used to pay for items such as:
Settling service fees for online game (e.g. FINAL FANTASY XIV)
Purchasing a Square Enix Security Token
To use Crysta to pay for a selected service, select ?Crysta? when asked to confirm your payment method.
Note: You must have a sufficient balance of Crysta on your account prior to attempting to pay for a service. If your balance is insufficient, you will not be able to complete the transaction.


Credit Card

Direct payment using credit card or debit card via ClickandBuy International Ltd. is available for some service. For more detail please visit:
http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html
To use a credit card or debit card to pay for a selected service, select ?Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account? when asked to confirm your payment method.
Note: In order to use a credit card or debit card, you will need to create a ClickandBuy account to complete your purchase.

Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center.
___________
For additional assistance with this issue, you can reply to this email directly. For assistance with a new issue, please visit the SQUARE ENIX Support Center at http://support.na.square-enix.com.

Nothing in this response addressed the actual complaint:

JP can register a CC directly with SE, and SE directly manages payment via that credit card. SE feels it is secure enough for them to extend the option to the JP region, and apparently does not feel it is at risk for sufficient liability to warrant denying this payment method to the JP region. For reasons unknown, they have decided not to extend this option to other regions. The only known factor for this is simply the fact these people live outside of the JP region.

Please, SE....just be honest and explain just why this decision was made. If it is a cost issue in maintaining the security, then let us know. If it is something like an issue with not being able to do the planned flat 30day on-demand billing cycle and would require you to continue the first of the month billing cycle that we've used for nearly a decade, or something else that may cause you to incure additional costs requiring you to raise our base subscription fee to $13.95 USD instead of $12.95, let us know.

If it is something that you are afraid to do for fear of loosing business, it may very well be something that we might be able to accept and together we can overcome the adversity and everybody wins in the long run. As it is right now, you are simply pushing long-term, faithful consumers out the door and potentially preventing any new customers from even stepping foot inside.

Please stop ignoring the core principle of doing business: the paying customer ultimately is your boss--without them, you can't pay your bills, or pay your employees. Essentially, we are partners in maintaining the FFXI service. Be up front with us. Let us have an open dialogue about it so we can come to a reasonable solution that accomodates all parties at risk.

Edit:
Before any one starts chiming in about they are a big comapany and are not obligated to communicate with their customers in such a way....technically that is true, but a company that truly values it's customers WILL put forth the effort when it is a matter that can have such an impact to that company's bottom line. Case in point, over a decade ago, Wal-Mart built a super Wal-Mart on the other side of town with the intention of moving the hometown Wal-Mart across town. The local communities were in an uproar. The hometown store was near the I-95/I-20 interchange and was the most convenient location for towns within about a 30-40 mile drive, moving to the new location would require driving all the way through Florence. Loosing the convenience was just not acceptable to the customers.

Ultimately what happened, was Wal-Mart setup a polling system within their registers. Every customer entered their zipcode while paying. They tracked the information for roughly 6 months and compiled the data. They took it all under advisement, and finally managed along with some pro-Walmart community groups to secure property near the hometown site and were able to build a second Super-Walmart just a few blocks away from the hometown store. So, now we have a Sam's Club and two Super-Walmarts in a small town that was originally slated for only one Sam's and one Super Walmart according to corporate standards (Florence does not meet the population/financial guidelines that flag an area for having 2 Super-Walmarts). It was only through the efforts to listen to their customerbase that a change was affected that went against the normal corporate policy in effect, and the community has benefitted. New shopping centers were built nearby (two in partnership with Walmart, I might add) that has brought in new businesses and provided better locations for local vendors to get more local traffic. In the end, both the company and community have benefitted from it. And it all started with the corporate decision to listen to their customers instead of the company line.

[tinydog]

If any additional fees are being added to my subscription cost through this new payment method, I'm cancelling.

[Xellith]

Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.


ROFL

Obviously SE has no idea what its doing.

[Dulcinea]

I am in the USA and just looked at my credit card account to pay it and found not just my normal monthly FFXI charge but a 2nd charge from Click & buy labelled "International Processing Fee"

[Octaviane]

Raist, I just love the canned response from SE. I think questions/complaints submitted are answered by 20th Century Automatons that have been refurbished/rescued from the scap heap and programmed with Auto-responses. We do know that someone is watching though since they nuked the "How much will SE lose" thread, no reason given.

Please, don't give us this story of "improved security", it's obvious from the many complaints that security is being compromised via C&B.

We are not stupid guys, get with the program, work through the weekend if you have to and have someone from SE, preferably the Director, give a clear response to your customers. We do understand that it might take a little time to get your eggs all in one basket, but please just do it. It's the right thing to do.

[Neika]

Highest level of security?! Are you kidding me?! My bank told me not to do business with Click and Buy! And exactly how does giving my CC info to a third party make it more secure? It sounds less secure to me. I really don't see how you can say this change is for security reasons and expect us all to believe it.

[RAIST]

eh.. if only it had been an automated response--would have written that off as simply that, automated reply. I got that when I submitted the complaint about a week ago. Think I deleted it, so not sure exactly when it was, but my daughter was here, so it was before Sunday.

This was a follow-up, issued at least 4 or 5 days later... that is what is so annoying.

[Revanchist]

SE has no clue... It's their accountants who are trying to squirrel away as much money they can from their initial figures. No thought about long term revenue etc.

/clap

Bravo SE... You have just gone and committed suicide, albeit a slow, debilitating suicide. Do they really think people who are affected by this, will continue to support them by purchasing their products now? I already know about half a dozen former FFXI players, who had preorders for other upcoming SE games (whether produced or distibuted by them.), if it has 'Squareenix' on the front of the box, they've cancelled their order. Going to extremes, yes... but on the otherhand, they feel 'screwed over' because of this and want nothing more to do with this company.

Speaking for myself... I honestly don't care anymore. IF SE decides to allow direct payment for all non JP players, that's fine and I'll keep playing. If they don't... no more $35AUSD in my account will go to them at all. Either way, I still win... in a roundabout way.

[Vold]

I think the most relevant question from that thread was actually this:


Looks like you guys can skip the 26 day countdown. They aren't going to do anything in time.
I expect them to act only AFTER Sept rolls around to test the I quit waters to see if they really need to bother further. If/when the people surprise them by not continuing to play I suspect it'll be around Sept 15 before we can pay direct again or through paypal as they have actual serious business discussions about the situation. Considering the trouble they're already gone through I'm pretty damn certain we will never be able to pay direct again. We'll see additional 3rd party options at best. But hey, hopefully I'm wrong on that.

[Malamasala]

If they are lucky, the missing payments will cancel forum accounts too, and they can go "Oh, nobody is complaining any more. We did the right thing!"

Honestly though, I'm not paying them until they have a decent option. (I could go for a paypal (with no additional fees) exact Crysta method). End of August is when my account will probably die, and then end of September I'll see if they solved the issue, or I'll just quit permanently.

I don't expect to be "allowed" to continue playing though. I've always had to wait years on my requests.

[Panthera]

We do know that someone is watching though since they nuked the "How much will SE lose" thread, no reason given.

I think the answer to that question is simple. Everything.

They have to maintain a certain profit margin; they're not a running a break-even operation. They lose too many people and it's game over, for us and them. More specifically, the question was,"how much business do they lose if they do nothing, how much do they lose if they just give us $1.00 amounts for Chrysta, and will going with PayPal be enough to save FFXI?"

They'll do whatever it takes to remain profitable.

If it's more profitable for them to proceed as planned, that's what they'll do.
If it's more profitable for them to use PayPal, or direct Visa charges and pass the charge onto consumers, that's what they'll do.

[Lahan]

Also click and buy hits you with the following:

08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

I am in the U.S.A.

I cancelled that crap.

Also ultimatepay lets you go through PayPal (which is free).

13.95 is my monthly hit to them normally.

(sorry if it was already reported and I see it was)

[Fearforever]

Besides being double billed for this month and having to call my banks fraud department to let me use C&B all is well so far...

I still lol @ the Security reason from SE. Its like giving your car keys to a shady guy and telling them to take it to the garage for you because the garage wont take it directly from you.

[RAIST]

Oh no no no... we no longer want to have your name/address/phone/CC numbers on our receipts and such....we want John Smith from down the street to handle it. We don't care if there are issues with you paying John Smith--we have a contract with him and we know we won't have any problems getting money from him.

Absurd analogy I know....but, then again..... maybe not?

Edit:
Been meaning to dig this support thread up for quite some time now, but I couldn't remember what I had searched on to find it a few weeks ago when I started trying to find out about C&B before all this blew up in our faces. Managed to track it down again though:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/other-complaints/42829-dont-know-what-do-im-stuck-please-help.html

It's an interesting read. I encourage everyone to read through it even though it is 39 posts. It did eventually get settled, but it was a really screwy situation. And it isn't the only time something like this happened--there were other issues with iTunes and people were questiong legal options as well in late 2010. This happened during the first quarter of 2011 (Feb/March)--not the 2007-2009 crap that is usually what you find (warhammer, blizzard issues and such). This involved issues with managing an iTunes account and an online gambling account, and hints at a potential LIBEL suit because C&B disclosed unsolicited confidential information and may have broken the law in doing so--even had to bring in the FSA for assistance.

[Karbuncle]

I think ClickAndBuy was the least expensive path and they took it.

We need to face reality and realize gaming companies don't care about us at all, they want money, to them we're money, they don't care how we feel about it so long as they save a dime, they don't care how inconvenienced we are until it cuts into their bottom line.

Saddly, even with all this huff and puffing they'll likely continue profiting enough from the people who just say "fk it" and buy Crysta. The Reps/Devs might care about us, but the Company Itself does not, rest assured, we are nothing to them outside of a source of money to exploit.

They're a business, and unfortunately that means making business calls. They think they'll come out ahead by doing this, and they're probably right.

Unless 1/4th~1/2 of the population quits because of this, nothing will change. Hell, They've even gone out of their way to convenience the JP Crowd more. Its almost like they're trying to alienate foreign players.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

This... is sad.

W
T
F
:confused:

Really wish I'd done some research before i created a C&B account, was in too much of a rush to get the transfer over and done with before I forgot and the end of the month snuck up on me, but I'm hoping I can change billing over to Crysta before C&B starts cycling payments. :mad: Maybe I'll get lucky and if I can change before the first payment goes through, I won't run into the issue of them continuing to charge my account even after I change billing methods, like others have seemed to have had. Bah... Seriously, this never should have become an issue. Anyone know if there is a cancellation fee? I've spent the past few hours browsing their ever so helpful 'FAQs and Help pages' and the best i've found so far is 'Needless to say, you incur no charges for maintaining an active ClickandBuy account. For this reason there is no real necessity to terminate an account either.' -.- Other than the fact that I don't trust you with my CC information!

So SE, listen up, I'll keep this short and sweet.
I've been with you for 7 years... I've stood behind you. Good times, bad times. I've weathered them all and I've still held my faith in you. But this... This is beyond unacceptable. This is a horrendous insult to your loyal customers. My faith in you is broken. Congratulations! You've added another notch to the list of discontent and dissatisfied customers! A measly wand that will transport me to the chocobo races (Damn you, you know i'm a chocobo addict... but still... meh) does NOT compensate for the flaming hoops of manure you are making us jump through, MUCH LESS the insecurity I am now feeling after having signed up with C&B.


Its almost like they're trying to alienate foreign players
exactly...

But what I don't get is this; yes, they'll probably continue to make money. Compared to what I make in a year, LOTS of money. But with so many people unable to pay with the new methods or flat out refusing to pay using the new methods, it's definitely going to be less money than it would be otherwise. How is that a good business decision?
More money > less money
I can't see how C&B is going to increase revenues enough to compensate for yet more losses to the player base.

On a side note... raise your hand if you feel like you are on the Titanic ~ Sinking fast and the higher ups are unwilling to admit it to the lowly peasants.

[Neika]

On a side note... raise your hand if you feel like you are on the Titanic ~ Sinking fast and the higher ups are unwilling to admit it to the lowly peasants.

My jaw just about hit the floor when I read this line because this is exactly how I'm feeling right about now. Thank you.

[Yinnyth]

A: Square Enix has opted to employ an external company for the processing of payments to offer the highest level of security to customer transactions.

You are holding something I love ransom and telling me the ransom is for my own good.

[Octaviane]

I think the answer to that question is simple. Everything.

They have to maintain a certain profit margin; they're not a running a break-even operation. They lose too many people and it's game over, for us and them. More specifically, the question was,"how much business do they lose if they do nothing, how much do they lose if they just give us $1.00 amounts for Chrysta, and will going with PayPal be enough to save FFXI?"

They'll do whatever it takes to remain profitable.

If it's more profitable for them to proceed as planned, that's what they'll do.
If it's more profitable for them to use PayPal, or direct Visa charges and pass the charge onto consumers, that's what they'll do.

Well, I was done with FFXI anyway and even if payment methods were returned to normal and/or we could buy Crysta in exact amounts or just use PayPal, I would have a really hard time trusting them again. You've hit the nail on the head in your last 2 sentences. Very sad. :(

[Fream]

Wait, what? Our security? You have got to be kidding me. Did no one at SE research CnB? If it's for "our security", why isn't it being forced on all players then? Why do the Japanese players get to use direct payment, if it's supposedly less secure? It'd be nice if they just came out and said "It's to cut costs." instead of giving us the runaround. If you're using us for money, at least be direct (haha, pun) about it.

SE, girl, what is up with these fallacies?

[Niyariko]

Wait, what? Our security? You have got to be kidding me. Did no one at SE research CnB? If it's for "our security", why isn't it being forced on all players then? Why do the Japanese players get to use direct payment, if it's supposedly less secure? It'd be nice if they just came out and said "It's to cut costs." instead of giving us the runaround. If you're using us for money, at least be direct (haha, pun) about it.

SE, girl, what is up with these fallacies?

/sarcasm Don't u see, Japanese does not deserve highest security, only loyal customers are good enough to use ClickandBuy. :p The Jp doesn't care if their Credit Card info are lost from SE's servers, actually, they love getting their info stolen, they throw up a party every time that happens! :cool:

What SE is doing is basically closing NA/EU support for good and making FFXI a JP only MMO. At least this is what their action is showing.

[Ravenmore]

Even when sept comes around if its not more people leaving the game then the projections for loss then nothing will change. While some have stated this was the last dstraw they would have quit soon anyway. So they were already accounted for. It comes down to those that will quit over simply not being able to pay at all effectly being banned with out the LM-17 msg.(thats the right code ?). So hoping enough players that can continue to pay do quit in large enough numbers to change the acountants minds or get them knock down to janitor, the last should happen no matter what. While I like the option of paying with crysta it shouldn't be that or have you bank acount cleaned out by third party fees. If they will even take it with out everything they would need to James woods you.

[Runespider]

I think ClickAndBuy was the least expensive path and they took it.

We need to face reality and realize gaming companies don't care about us at all, they want money, to them we're money, they don't care how we feel about it so long as they save a dime, they don't care how inconvenienced we are until it cuts into their bottom line.

Saddly, even with all this huff and puffing they'll likely continue profiting enough from the people who just say "fk it" and buy Crysta. The Reps/Devs might care about us, but the Company Itself does not, rest assured, we are nothing to them outside of a source of money to exploit.

They're a business, and unfortunately that means making business calls. They think they'll come out ahead by doing this, and they're probably right.

Unless 1/4th~1/2 of the population quits because of this, nothing will change. Hell, They've even gone out of their way to convenience the JP Crowd more. Its almost like they're trying to alienate foreign players.

This is pretty much it now, I don't think they felt this way as much in the past but now they deffinately do..especiallly going into the multi MMO mindset. We are simply a resource, they do as little as possible in terms of updates as they can get away with and take decisions based on profits alone, even if it means losing a portion of that long standing playerbase to make things more profitable. I guess ultimately they think we are all mindless fanbois, even if they throw us off this game we will be back for their next games..sadly for them I don't think it really does work that way anymore.

As was mentioned also the "treat JP players better" thing which has come out here is the real kicker, after so many years of being loyal to this company the differnt treatment is rather sickening.

[Seyrena]

Oh hey, cool, a $6.00 mystery charge on my account.
Thanks, Square-Enix.

[Lahan]

Also click and buy hits you with the following:

08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

I am in the U.S.A.

I cancelled that crap.

Also ultimatepay lets you go through PayPal (which is free).

13.95 is my monthly hit to them normally.

(sorry if it was already reported and I see it was)


Here I found something even funnier! Now it id's the actuall 13.95 payment as the following:

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95

AKRON OH is TWO cities away LOL (Technically one and a half Akron/Canton is mostly Canton right next to me in Massillon). So I have an international fee for them using some banking system two cities over...

[Lahan]

24 hours since this thread was started and not even a "hey, we are looking into it" from a mod. You wont be getting my money on August 1st. Stay classy SE.

Worst part is mods are reading this I see peoples post removed for TOS breach.

[Randwolf]

Most likely will be my last month. Went through the whole Click and Buy thing. Got an error message and was told to call their service number. Called it and said I was calling outside business hours. Looks like this will be the final thing S/E does that gets me to quit.

[Lahan]

WOW Ok here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ
Third one down post by Bayohne:

We are working to add new knowledge base articles to our FINAL FANTASY XI Support Center to try and address questions we're seeing in the forums.

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?
No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

However, if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account (this is not required for SQUARE ENIX customers), they may incur the following fees:

Account Funding Fee
3.9% of any transaction into your ClickandBuy E-Money Account when using a credit card.
Withdrawal Handling Fee
$2.75 per withdrawal from your ClickandBuy E-Money Account
Maintenance Fee
$1.50 per month if a ClickandBuy E-Money Account has been inactive for 12 months and contains funds.

These fees can only be incurred when utilizing a ClickandBuy E-Money Account, and are not applicable to customers who only use ClickandBuy to pay for their subscriptions. For additional details on ClickandBuy E-Money Accounts, please visit the ClickandBuy website at http://clickandbuy.com/US_en/.


HE IS 100% worng.

I did their step-by-step instructions to make the click and buy JUST for FFXI and it took 13.95 and .42 from me. That is an extra fee.

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95
08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

[Aver]

WOW Ok here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ
Third one down post by Bayohne:

We are working to add new knowledge base articles to our FINAL FANTASY XI Support Center to try and address questions we're seeing in the forums.

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?
No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

However, if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account (this is not required for SQUARE ENIX customers), they may incur the following fees:

Account Funding Fee
3.9% of any transaction into your ClickandBuy E-Money Account when using a credit card.
Withdrawal Handling Fee
$2.75 per withdrawal from your ClickandBuy E-Money Account
Maintenance Fee
$1.50 per month if a ClickandBuy E-Money Account has been inactive for 12 months and contains funds.

These fees can only be incurred when utilizing a ClickandBuy E-Money Account, and are not applicable to customers who only use ClickandBuy to pay for their subscriptions. For additional details on ClickandBuy E-Money Accounts, please visit the ClickandBuy website at http://clickandbuy.com/US_en/.


HE IS 100% worng.

I did their step-by-step instructions to make the click and buy JUST for FFXI and it took 13.95 and .42 from me. Thats an extra fee.

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95
08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

Eh, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's go a script provided by SE for this, so don't shoot the messenger. The community reps seem a hell of a lot more on our side than the actual company does anyway.

[Neika]

I'm actually feeling kinda bad for the reps right now. They must know that those posts SE gave them to put up are crap and have to put them up anyway. I definately wouldn't want their job right now.

[Lahan]

I would be 100% behind the Crysta thing as it helps people that do not have a credit card or debit card. Geared to younger players or those out in different country regions. A parent can go and set up three months without any fear of anything being stolen from their young child doing something wrong. But it needs to be exact payment not over pay.

[Lahan]

lol if they win again microsoft, let sue visa and mastercard for same reason on they gift card, idk how many i tossed in garbage with 1~2$ left with no use...

You could have used that at a gas pump for 1~2 bucks THEN tossed it.... (assuming it was a generic card even if it was to say target the target by me lets you do 5 bucks on a card and 5 bucks cash)
We cant use the extra Crysta like that which is a lot of peoples points.

[Byrth]

You were charged an international processing fee because ClickAndBuy is EU-based. US customers are international.

[Lahan]

You were charged an international processing fee because ClickAndBuy is EU-based. US customers are international.

Go five posts above your post and read what that mod said. He said:

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

[Byrth]

Go five posts above your post and read what that mod said. He said:

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

The quote that was pulled from the thread titled "[EU] Square Enix Account Transfer Payment Procedures FAQ (05-08-11)"? Maybe it was in reference to something European.

Ah, I see the second one. Honestly, they look like they're copied off each other. But yeah, he's wrong about it being free for people paying in USDs.

[RAIST]

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95
08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

You were charged an international processing fee because ClickAndBuy is EU-based. US customers are international.

At first glance it appears the transactions were actually conducted IN THE US (in the players own state even)--and thus should not be subject to an INTERNATIONAL TRANSACTION FEE. That could just be something wonky in the bank's notation though. It could be that the fee was charged by the centralized branch in Akron for the International Transaction wtih C&B. So that may actually be your Bank's fee and not C&B.

Either way...the bigger point is it is costing more to conduct the same business with SE for the same contracted price and via the players' same payment instrument, simple because they have been forced out of the previous method with no known reason for having that method removed for some while it remains for others--simply because they live in different parts of the world.

[Lahan]

My bank does currency conversion for free. I have 1st hand experience with this in a trip to Canada. I was told by them to just use the card and the bank does all conversions no charge. I have never had anything bounce to this Akron place before. I have bought plenty of things online both with and without PayPal as well.

[Lahan]

I just want to follow up with you guys to repair any confusion I may have cause.

I apparently did make a ClickandBuy account, but it seemed to have all be done within the SE account web page and used existing information from my SE account. I did not put in any new information. I must have really not been paying much attention, but it really was incredibly easy. I'll wait to complain about ClickandBuy when/if I ever have a problem with them.

I did this too.

AND I called the number for them and was on hold with the muzak for 1:20:00 before i gave up.

[Byrth]

At first glance it appears the transactions were actually conducted IN THE US (in the players own state even)--and thus should not be subject to an INTERNATIONAL TRANSACTION FEE. That could just be something wonky in the bank's notation though. It could be that the fee was charged by the centralized branch in Akron for the International Transaction wtih C&B.

I think, in order to convert currency from one nation to another, banks have to have some representative body in each nation. So ClickAndBuy US takes your dollars and exchanges them for Euros/Pounds that it uses to pay ClickAndBuy EU. International economics and rules are weird.

[RAIST]

My bank does currency conversion for free. I have 1st hand experience with this in a trip to Canada. I was told by them to just use the card and the bank does all conversions no charge. I have never had anything bounce to this Akron place before. I have bought plenty of things online both with and without PayPal as well.

Yeah, I ran into that when I went to Montreal years ago too. It was weird to see the statement come in and see the adjusted amounts for the exchange--prices were so close, it was like.... why did they even bother shifitng it for pennies on the dollar? Who knows why they make some of the determinations they do--With Canada it may be because they are bordering nations and such--tourists crossing the Falls and what not could probly lead to some unnecessary bad PR or something, so they just take care of it on their own dime to save face.

Regardless of the why....the symptom is the same. We were led to believe we may be able to pay SE with no additional cost incurred if we had a supported CC, only to find that it is not necessarily true. SE only hinted there may be something different per region at the very end of their notice:

http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=59527&id=20&la=1


- Payment methods will differ depending on the region of the Square Enix account.

- The currency of fees (i.e. monthly subscription fee, World Transfer Service fee,fee for purchasing registration codes, etc.) will be based on the region for the Square Enix account

That second line implies that even if you had to resort to an alternate method of payment, the transactioin would be done in the currency accepted in your region, so as to not incur any additional fees for processing. They didn't even address the issue of International Transaction fees, which seems to imply it was a non-issue as well.

Nowhere in that announcement did they state specifically that the direct pay method would be dropped for all non-JP regions--they even implied it would continue to be offered at one point:

* Payment Methods:

Square Enix Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/), debit cards, and credit cards will be viable payment methods after ID transfer. Debit and credit cards must support personal authentication services (such as 3D Secure) in order to be used.

* Logging into PlayOnline after the Transition

Certain customers may be required to register their Square Enix account and PlayOnline ID before logging into PlayOnline.



* Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Can credit cards without personal authentication services (such as 3-D secure) be used?

A: Cards without personal authentication services, such as 3-D secure, can make payments using ClickandBuy International Ltd. and Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.

3-D secure will be required only for cards that support and have been set up with it.

Just looks more and more like they didn't seriously research the issue and just what kind of impact it may have on their customers. They just saw a company that could take our credit cards for less cost and/or effort and just rolled with it without REALLY looking into the company's history or problematic policies.

[Lahan]

She (my bank lady) told me it would be free conversions anywhere I went that took Visa/Mastercard. That being said I cant afford to fly to London or Japan to test it! I would love to though...

(I am trying to read through all of this massive thread I did see the "test bill" that CNB did and it just disappeared after an hourish but this .42 has been there for days. I will report back if it gets refunded but from what I am reading it will most likely not)

[Lahan]

Checked billing statement, I was charged 42 cent "International Transaction Fee". Which is not much, but it is lame.


I am in the USA and just looked at my credit card account to pay it and found not just my normal monthly FFXI charge but a 2nd charge from Click & buy labelled "International Processing Fee"

I am trying to get to the bottom of this. Can ether of you two do me a favor please, if you even come back to read this thread.
1) go to your click and buy and tell me if it lists the .42 under the fee column. (it does not list it on mine)
2) did you verify the card? (I did not)

-EDIT
Ok I just talked to the 1-800 customer service for my bank. She said that fee is from the bank. I have to go to my local branch to talk to them about why they charged me when they told me the do not.

I still would like to have the above two questions answered from one or both of you just to give every one else reading this more information.

[Kit_Katz]

While I agree and dislike the new system, when making a "petition" you could at least make your post professional and easy to read. If it was it would be much easier for the community to stand behind and for the Devs to take seriously.

Regardless of that, I dislike using click&Buy and have more of a virulent hatred for the "Crysta" system, most notably the fact that Square Enix refuses to allow its customers to pay them an exact amount and instead force them to overpay and leave extra on their balance. This is a tricky con-job way to "entice" customers to spend more money than they wish to on any useless other thing Square Enix decides to introduce for the system. Even if the customer does not choose to use the extra Crysta on their account I have not heard of any way to retrieve said funds, meaning that the customer using the Crysta system does in fact pay more for their monthly bill because the money value of that Crysta already belongs to Square Enix and you are not getting it back.

On the other hand, if this system stops the rampant double charging and frivolous content ID termination that was so prevalent for unlucky customers like myself in the past, it may yet be a minor improvement.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

Found this on the C&B web last night:

17. Fee table
Fee
See * for Accounts in non-GBP, EUR or USD currencies
Account Opening Fee This fee is payable for opening an Account.
Free Payment Fee
This fee is payable for processing certain payment transactions to or from Your Account.
.... skipped a bunch of stuff
Currency Exchange Fee Where We are required to exchange currency in order to process Your transactions, We will apply this fee to the amount of Your monetary value that is converted.
5.9%
.... skipped a bunch more stuff
* Fees in non GBP, EUR or USD currencies: Where Your Account is in a currency other than GBP, EUR or USD, You will be charged fees in the currency of Your Account that are materially equivalent in value to the fees in EUR set out in this fee table. The fees in non GBP, EUR or USD currencies will be calculated by Us to this effect on an interim basis with reference to prevailing market exchange rates. The fees as calculated will be notified and recorded in the currency of Your Account.


So... essentially they are saying that they deal in US currency... but then they turn around charge us a conversion fee? Why do they need to convert it if they already state that they accept it as a standard currency? :confused: How is that even legal?

[RAIST]

Found this on the C&B web last night:

So... essentially they are saying that they deal in US currency... but then they turn around charge us a conversion fee? Why do they need to convert it if they already state that they accept it as a standard currency? :confused: How is that even legal?

The "International Transaction Fee" from your bank is a fee charged simply because of doing commerce directly with an out of country merchant. Previously, SE was processing credit card charges through regional processors linked to their regional offices, so those fees were not being charged. Now a merchant overseas is posting a payment directly from your bank and is tripping that fee.

Before:
US based customer, US based processer, requesting to transfer funds to a US based merchant account

After:
a UK merchant asking for funds from a US based customer's bank to be deposited into a UK based merchant account

The new method trips up an international commerce flag, and you get slapped with the fee.

[Vhailor]

Well, one thing is certainly clear by now. SE likely is taking a "wait and see" approach with FFXI. I wish I could cancel at the end of August, but I will be playing until the end of September; this is largely due to the fact that I've been with a static party for some years now and the next time we're all available is near the end of that month. Thus I'll purchase enough Crysta for that, and call it good.

However, I have made one other decision: I won't be purchasing Deus Ex, despite an immense attraction to the title. If we, as consumers, boycott their products (not just FFXI, but all other SE titles), it WILL send an enduring message to the rest of the gaming industry to not ever behave in such a pathetic fashion.

Of course, this decision will shift according to SE's response. I'll be quite willing to forgive and forget if they admit their mistake before August ends. If they wait until September, though, they won't get me returning unless they make the game free. They need to show me they respect us as players, not just dollar signs; fixing the system after their bottom line takes a major hit provides me absolutely no assurances they won't try this crap again.

As others have said: follow through. Quit FFXI. Boycott other titles if you can bring yourself to. Force them to be responsive to their player base by removing your dollars and support until they change. I'm as addicted to FFXI as the next person; it'll be like quitting coffee, it's that much of a routine for me. Use this as motivation to take the final step. I know I will be.

Hell of a way for 7+ years of fun to end, but... well, had to happen sometime.

[Panthera]

We need to face reality and realize gaming companies don't care about us at all, they want money, to them we're money, they don't care how we feel about it so long as they save a dime, they don't care how inconvenienced we are until it cuts into their bottom line...Saddly, even with all this huff and puffing they'll likely continue profiting enough from the people who just say "fk it" and buy Crysta... They think they'll come out ahead by doing this, and they're probably right... Unless 1/4th~1/2 of the population quits because of this, nothing will change. (my italics)

I don't think this is huffing and puffing. Is it not fair to say the reaction has been 90% negative? If only 33% quit, that easily meets the 1/4 loss you mentioned (using this forum as a sample population) . If just half of those are the real deal, that's a 45% loss; too close for comfort to the half-way mark you mentioned. And what if everyone that says they'll quit will? There's a word, decimation, to kill one man in every 10. This is worse than decimation, taken literally.

Italics from your quote are why I think there's hope for all concerned. We are money to them, that's why we are valuable to them for exactly that reason; it's actually a good thing. I don't think they saw this $#!^storm coming at all. Put yourself in their shoes. If you saw this reaction coming, would you have done this? Is billing so expensive in and of itself that it's more profitable to lose customers than to outsource it and keep what customers you can? I think the mistake they made is not putting themselves in our shoes. They're tight lipped. The fact that they intend to make changes to me means they're admitting to a mistake. They are not infallible. Movies get released that flop at the box office. TV shows get cancelled after one season. Gaming is a medium just the same, and reactions can be unexpectedly, overwhelmingly positive or negative. The difference is that the billing is in flux. I doubt they're sleeping much. I think they're up late doing everything they can to retain customers--their money. Wouldn't you? To us, it's our money. To them, it's their jobs.

Again, I am in no way an apologist for SE. I think they made a mistake, and I think it's in our mutual interest for them to fix it.


Hell, They've even gone out of their way to convenience the JP Crowd more. Its almost like they're trying to alienate foreign players. (my italics)

Why would they try to do that? I'm not saying it is fair; it isn't, but put yourself in their shoes. Would you push paying customers away? Gonna go out on a limb here and guessing that running an international business is more complicated than running a mom'n pop store on Main Street.

Money holds us all to the same standards; in that sense, we are all equals. If you're 12.95, you're 12.95. If you start charging fees for going across borders, you're worth less. Money is money is money. Going across international lines, someone has to do some work to make dollars yen and so on; someone has to pay.

I give you that from a gameplay standpoint, many changes are too late in coming to matter. The game is in many ways better and worse than when we started. But we aren't talking about gameplay changes. We are talking about real money--and in that regard, real life. There is uncertainty because there is no precedent. So we can either despair or hope. Me, I choose hope.

[RAIST]

They aren't spending much on CC processing fees compared to what they are pulling in. If it was costly, small businesses couldn't afford it. Granted, the rates are a bit higher for internet based processing, but in the US you are looking at up to around $30 in monthly fees at worst (some may get waived in part, or completely in some cases), and under a quarter per transaction plus a varying schedule up to MAYBE 3% on each transaction in the WORST case (no discount rate). Granted, this may be different in the EU or Japan, but in the US, it's a paultry amount. When we pay taxes online here, they pass the % portion of the transaction fees on to us and it is only 1.83% tacked on to our bill.

[mistmonster]

As others have said: follow through. Quit FFXI. Boycott other titles if you can bring yourself to. Force them to be responsive to their player base by removing your dollars and support until they change. I'm as addicted to FFXI as the next person; it'll be like quitting coffee, it's that much of a routine for me. Use this as motivation to take the final step. I know I will be.

I doubt it will do much, but yeah I canceled every SE preorder I had. If they actually go through with this (as I believe they will) I don't ever want to see them again for treating me this way.

[tifia]

I doubt it will do much, but yeah I canceled every SE preorder I had. If they actually go through with this (as I believe they will) I don't ever want to see them again for treating me this way.

You'd be surprised at how much power we as consumers hold. If enough of us say No and don't transfer, it'll force SE to listen to us. Take your local grocery store for example. The products sold at your grocery store are based on what people have previously bought. Ever wondered why your favorite snack is no longer being sold or why there are less fruits and more cookies? Because it's what people are buying. The all-mighty dollar has a lot of sway. We as consumers have more. If we with-hold our money from SE, if they see a large number of people not transferring their accounts, they will look into alternate payment methods. Boycotting can work if people follow-through.

Unfortunately I do believe SE is going to fully implement the new payment system at the end of the month and not follow-up with our concerns. This is the same complaint that we had when FF14 was released nearly a year ago. We made a huge uprising against ClickandBuy and Crysta and got the word from devs that they were going to look for alternate payment methods. Clearly it didn't happen since FF14 immediately went back into "beta" mode again and customers didn't have to pay. So the rabble died down. I'm not surprised that they're attempting to pull this again. But now they have a much larger, and dedicated user-base that they're affecting.

Now to figure out where I'm going to send my character for her last day on Vanadiel.

[Octaviane]

Well let's see. Given that current payment options are not all available everywhere, those are the players who will most likely be lost. They will also lose players who take extended breaks and as yet might not even be aware of the changes. There are probably even more who have no clue yet what is about to happen. Then there are players who are holding out in hopes SE will bring back direct payment or allow exact purchases of Crysta. What will their decision be when August 31 rolls around and nothing is changed? Many will just say to heck with it and cave in. Yes, there will be a small number of players who dig their heels in and say no way and quit. There might be a small ray of hope that this will amount to enough to impact SE's bottom line. Problem is they won't really see it until September if it happens at all.

It has been 12 days (July 27) since the changes were put into effect, and at least 6 weeks since they were first announced. A few people back then saw right off the bat that there was going to be a $#!& storm on the Horizon. The 2 responses we have seen thus far have done nothing to quell the rising tide of opposition.

If SE can't immediately see from the pages and pages of posts in this thread and other threads that have brought up the subject that they have made an enormous blunder, there is no hope for them. I am still hoping though, for the sake of everyone that tomorrow will bring a major announcement from SE that will be acceptable to everyone, not just a select few.

[Ciecle]

Here's a little tidbit for you that are complaining about how unfair this is.

JP players pay 1180 Yen for the service(1239 w/tax) and 100 for a character(105 w/tax) (source: http://www.playonline.com/ff11/envi/charge.html)

1 dollar is ~ 78.38 yen
1239 + 105= 1344
¥1344 = $17.15
US:
$12.95 = ¥ 1015.0210

Even if SE were to change it to where you can direct pay them, but were told that they cant tax US players

¥1180 + ¥100 = ¥1280
¥1280 = $16.33

Now lets look at the example of a JP player buying 3 more characters and a US player buying 3 more

12.95+3 = 15.95
¥1344+¥315 = ¥1659
¥1659 = $21.17
15.95 = ¥1247.81

[Ravenmore]

Thing it really comes down is how they stand on profits. Does just being plus in the black good enough? If its that then they could 86 the rest of us and still make money. Since with the JPs they don't have to bring home the profits and pay fees and such and get hit with crappy exchange rates. Exporting nations with a strong currancy gets the shaft. As long as they keep thier main base happy that being JDM they can keep making money, even if they scale back thier over seas holdings.

Is it fair no way in hell, would you put this past any other company like say apple or at&t. At&T sending out tethering fee notices to people that are still on the old unlimited plan that use over 5 gigs of data. Or apples stance on that you have no right to down load anything that they have not appoved or is competing with thier own apps. Or any other BS they are trying to pull and seem to be getting away with.

Its sucks that they are doing it but am I really surpised, not one bit. Some regions crysta isn't even legel so why wouldn't they at least look into the fact CnB might not even work with the banks. I would have hoped they learned after the massive fail Spirits and the massive amounts of people that left cause WoTg took 3 years to finish with nothing worth 3 years of dragging it out. Then the game getting nothing in 2009 other then wotg missions. I only seen one other self destrustion this bad lately, and I highly doubt they have the nads(or skill) to pull a "New Coke" moment.

[Ciecle]

maybe you misunderstood the message...

equality is a 'bad' thing when it comes to this. If SE told everyone we're now going to be doing direct pay, but the current subscriptions would jump up 4+ dollars, everyone would freak out.

SE is trying to do what they've been planing. and that's dropping Playonline and only using it as a launch pad.

Yes alternative methods can be found, just give SE time.

Sure you can cut into their bottom line, but how many more problems will that cause?

Make SE lose money = They start shutting down servers.
Start shutting servers down = More pissed off players
More pissed off players = More loss.

[Ravenmore]

maybe you misunderstood the message...

equality is a 'bad' thing when it comes to this. If SE told everyone we're now going to be doing direct pay, but the current subscriptions would jump up 4+ dollars, everyone would freak out.

SE is trying to do what they've been planing. and that's dropping Playonline and only using it as a launch pad.

Yes alternative methods can be found, just give SE time.

Sure you can cut into their bottom line, but how many more problems will that cause?

Make SE lose money = They start shutting down servers.
Start shutting servers down = More pissed off players
More pissed off players = More loss.

Was't talking about anything you mention simple wrote that long before your post just got pulled way. And I get distracted easy while typing .

[Ciecle]

ah sorry, just 89 pages of people raging about how 'unfair' it is...

I mean i understand people in the countries where it's illegal to make exchanges with japan, and i can understand where that would be a problem(many of these people still had offshore accounts with other countries that allowed them to make exchanges with japan). still no reason to try to hang people by a noose because SE tried to turn to a more convenient way of payment for their players that wont cost their players an arm and a leg to do...(not talking about crysta...)

SE could make crysta more convenient for players though.

What i would like to see for crysta is:

1 Crysta = $.01
50 Crysta = $.5
etc

[Revanchist]

equality is a 'bad' thing when it comes to this. If SE told everyone we're now going to be doing direct pay, but the current subscriptions would jump up 4+ dollars, everyone would freak out.

I'd rather pay the extra $4 if it kept the Direct Payment option (as I'm sure a lot of others would as well).


SE is trying to do what they've been planing. and that's dropping Playonline and only using it as a launch pad.

That may be so, but to force this change, so late in the game's life? That doesn't make sense to me at all.


Yes alternative methods can be found, just give SE time.

How much time will it take? The options specified aren't available to every country, only to a select few at this time. Countries where Crysta isn't legally accepted as a viable payment method, or don't have the gamer cards, what's left for the gamers in those countries? Sit back and wait for SE to sort this out? I already know quite a few people who are mad about this move.

Myself? Right now, I honestly don't care... too tired to keep arguing with SE apologists or such (my former linkshell was full of them... had to throw that pearl due to them saying that "Australians have no right playing this game" etc...). Granted not everyone is like that, but this move is dividing the playerbase into those who won't go ahead with this move either on principle or because they can't and those who think this is a great move by SE to weed out the 'undesirables'.

The direct payment route is still in place, as we've been using it for the last decade... It wouldn't take much on SE's part to reopen them again and enable gamers to pay directly to SE, just like what they're allowing JP players to do.


Sure you can cut into their bottom line, but how many more problems will that cause?

Make SE lose money = They start shutting down servers.
Start shutting servers down = More pissed off players
More pissed off players = More loss.

More than likely it was one of SE's accountants who forwarded a idea to increase revenue initially, without taking a second or two to step back and think of the long term repercussions of this.

[Ravenmore]

ah sorry, just 89 pages of people raging about how 'unfair' it is...

I mean i understand people in the countries where it's illegal to make exchanges with japan, and i can understand where that would be a problem. still no reason to try to hang people by a noose because SE turned to a more convenient way of payment for their players that wont cost their players an arm and a leg to do...(not talking about crysta...)

SE could make crysta more convenient for players though.

What i would like to see for crysta is:

1 Crysta = $.01
50 Crysta = $.5
etc

Thing is this is just the lastest in a long string of crap. Hell thier last single player game rip half its plot off from a game that came years before, only less rewarding then a game that was already over hyped and not nearly as fun. The they have the nevre to ask game mag not to review thier next attempt at a MMO that they had been working on for 5 years to release in a unfinished state. People were more forgiving with FF11 when it was released since it was thier first outing. So instead of them building off what they learned in FF11 they released a pile of crap. Then after people brought this whole BS with CnB up on 14 they then turn around a year later and having learned nothing or even tried to fix a problem they knew about already.

[Ciecle]

I'd rather pay the extra $4 if it kept the Direct Payment option (as I'm sure a lot of others would as well).
I for one wouldn't. Why should i be charged an extra 4 dollars to keep 'direct' payment option.



Myself? Right now, I honestly don't care... too tired to keep arguing with SE apologists or such (my former linkshell was full of them... had to throw that pearl due to them saying that "Australians have no right playing this game" etc...). Granted not everyone is like that, but this move is dividing the playerbase into those who won't go ahead with this move either on principle or because they can't and those who think this is a great move by SE to weed out the 'undesirables'.
I'm sorry you had to deal with the 'No right to play' people, but not everyone thinks this way. Everyone has a right to play. it's just the matter of having to deal with the government of said countries and such that banned all trading with certain countries.
I personally think this move is a better deal. I no longer have to deal with PoL's 'your card can not be verified.' crap


The direct payment route is still in place, as we've been using it for the last decade... It wouldn't take much on SE's part to reopen them again and enable gamers to pay directly to SE, just like what they're allowing JP players to do.
As i said before, what you think is 'not fair' is fair. jp players are having to pay taxes on this game where as you're not. They pay 5 dollars more just to play the game.Why would you want to pay 18 dollars to play...
12.95 x 12 = $155.4
17.95 x 12 = $215.4
total amount extra charged/year: $60.

[Ravenmore]

Whats not fair is the JPs don't have to go though a third party that is blocked by every large bank. They can buy the exact amount of crysta they need to pay for thier accounts too as well as dircect payment. Stop whiteknighting a company that is so out of touch with the world its bleeding money. Its been releasing sub par games and trading solely on the name of Final antasy. They should pay for this. I haven't bought a FF title since I bought 11. I can understand going to to thier own E-currancy I can't under stand why we can't buy in exact amounts. Then why us a company that a hour of leg work would have showed was a crap company. Stilled they knew about the short comings of CnB long before they used it for 11. Infact that both systems were blasted in every single review that FF14 got, you know those thing SE asked not to be made till they finished the game after it went on sale. How bout billing though paypay or even buying exact amount of crsyta with paypal.

Anyone that thinks SE is in the right on this has stockholm syndrome. They really need to start being held accountable and make games that are worth more then the packaging it came in. Even after all the fixs to FF14 I still don't see them getting anywere near 500k players FF11 had at its peak. When you have games like GWs2 coming that are looking like it will be the final nail for 14. When games are coming out that the makers are not asking the reviews to not review them SE is going to have to get thier act together and making it harder for the players to give SE thier money is not helping.

[Azagthoth]

I personally think this move is a better deal. I no longer have to deal with PoL's 'your card can not be verified.' crap

It works better for me; therefore, it must be awesome. Who cares about people that have payed the same way without issues for multiple years.

[Ravenmore]

Another thing is it is a rate increase with out them at least coming out and saying it. I forget how long you would have to play to work it were you wouldn't be giving SE free money. So either you played longer then you might have or just give in leaving what even you had left over up. Then CnB sends though dummy charges that are not really dummuy charges that they can put into you e-money account and hit you with the 3.9% fee. On top of your bank hitting you with transaction fees cause Click and rip is based in the UK. They really have no clue how to run a MMO and that why blizz and everyone else will keep blowing them by. I have yet to see any ads for FF14 since its been a year how long does it have to be in extented open beta(you have to buy) till its siuted for marketing.

[RAIST]

I for one wouldn't. Why should i be charged an extra 4 dollars to keep 'direct' payment option.


I'm sorry you had to deal with the 'No right to play' people, but not everyone thinks this way. Everyone has a right to play. it's just the matter of having to deal with the government of said countries and such that banned all trading with certain countries.
I personally think this move is a better deal. I no longer have to deal with PoL's 'your card can not be verified.' crap


As i said before, what you think is 'not fair' is fair. jp players are having to pay taxes on this game where as you're not. They pay 5 dollars more just to play the game.Why would you want to pay 18 dollars to play...
12.95 x 12 = $155.4
17.95 x 12 = $215.4
total amount extra charged/year: $60.

JP players have always had to pay local tax rates....it's nothing NEW to them. They ACCEPTED that when they FIRST started playing... so to use that as an argument is simply....flawed.

As for a $4 increase...your'e just grasping at numbers there to try to justify your argument against JP taxes. Nice strawman attempt? In the US, CC processing fees are assessed as a once a month base fee for the gateway (typically $20 or less), a once monthly maintenance/billing fee that is usually $10 or less, and several misceallaneous fees depending on features added that add up as fees like $2.50 here, $3.00 there. Some of any these monthly fees may get waived depending on varying factors, but there will be a monthly minimum due in the range of $20-$30. After that, there is a flat fee per transaction, often between $0.18 and $0.25 per transaction, and then a varying percentage up to around 3% when not discounted--discounted rates can get down below 2%.

So.... an extra $4 a billing when you are running down a few hundred thousand transactions a month, totaling well over $200k....I don't think so. At most, I would expect it to be $1 due to processing fees. I pay taxes online and they pass the % portion of the fee onto us and it is only 1.83%.

If you don't believe my estimations, here is a recent review of CC processors (granted, this was done as a comparison for US merchants, but some also do international processing as well):
http://credit-card-processing-review.toptenreviews.com/

Edit:
And here are details from an ad from PayPal for international processing:


PayPal
Bad Credit Merchant Accounts
2.90% Online Discount Rate
35 Cents per Transaction
No Gateway Fees
No Credit Check
Approved Instantly
Visit Paypal
Internationally Approved

[Vazerus]

stuff
Not that I disagree with your arguments against SE (I quit because of the billing bs), but..

What i would like to see for crysta is:

1 Crysta = $.01
50 Crysta = $.5
etc
...did you miss this post? He agrees that we shouldn't have to overpay, but was just stating how bad it is for them as well, and how bad it has been all along. That's what I'm getting from it, anyway.

-edit- I know some regions can't use Crysta, but this would solve my issue, anyway. It would be a step in the right direction along with other changes that should happen.

[RAIST]

Another thing is it is a rate increase with out them at least coming out and saying it. I forget how long you would have to play to work it were you wouldn't be giving SE free money. So either you played longer then you might have or just give in leaving what even you had left over up. Then CnB sends though dummy charges that are not really dummuy charges that they can put into you e-money account and hit you with the 3.9% fee. On top of your bank hitting you with transaction fees cause Click and rip is based in the UK. They really have no clue how to run a MMO and that why blizz and everyone else will keep blowing them by. I have yet to see any ads for FF14 since its been a year how long does it have to be in extented open beta(you have to buy) till its siuted for marketing.

100 cycles = $1295.00 USD in fees.
That's the LCD between $12.95 and $5.00, the smallest increment of Crysta you can buy.
So.. that would be at least 8 years to balance it out.

[Ravenmore]

Not that I disagree with your arguments against SE (I quit because of the billing bs), but..

...did you miss this post? He agrees that we shouldn't have to overpay, but was just stating how bad it is for them as well, and how bad it has been all along. That's what I'm getting from it, anyway.

-edit- I know some regions can't use Crysta, but this would solve my issue, anyway. It would be a step in the right direction along with other changes that should happen.

Nothing is wrong with the amount that crysta is worth now. A 5 cent rate increase would be acceptable if you could buy in $1 increments and they would only have to allow paypal to buy it that way, no changing how much its worth.

[Vazerus]

When did I say I wanted to change Crysta's worth? I just said I agreed that we should be able to pay for exact amounts of Crysta, that is all.

What I don't agree is paying more for the same thing, even if it's $0.01. If I'm going to be paying more for an aging game, I might as well jump ship to something new for these reasons:

1) Older games tend to LOWER their subscription cost. I know SE isn't raising the cost if you go through click&buy (lol), but if you pay Crysta you are essentially giving them extra money/month with the unused Crysta (however small the amount is). Until you reach 100 payment cycles, as previously mentioned everywhere, you don't break even.
2) You now have the option to buy multiple months at once with Crysta, great. Or I could go play x game that offers a discount if you buy y amount of months at once.

I really did enjoy this game, but I refuse to pay more than it's worth *shrug*. I also don't agree with how they're alienating people that live in certain countries, and I don't agree with the problems they are creating for 50%+ of the playerbase.

[Revanchist]

I for one wouldn't. Why should i be charged an extra 4 dollars to keep 'direct' payment option.

If it'd help SE decide to reopen the option for direct payment, I'm all for it. The groundwork and network for the direct payment option is still in place, and as the JP gamers can use it, why not allow the rest of the world? I'm not saying how it's unfair/fair etc at all... Just that it'd make better business sense to allow it, and it's worked well for the last 10 years, why change it now for a convoluted new system? I'm not saying that Direct Payment be the ONLY method, but have it as a alternative method for payment alongside the Crysta/prepaid gamer card options.


I'm sorry you had to deal with the 'No right to play' people, but not everyone thinks this way. Everyone has a right to play. it's just the matter of having to deal with the government of said countries and such that banned all trading with certain countries.

That was just from one of my linkshells and I was using that as a example. You're right when saying 'Everyone has a right to play.

'Some countries banning trade with other countries'? That's not the issue here (at least I don't think it is), SE has stated even on the Square website that... well, here's what's stated there:


The following payment methods can be selected for settling service fees in the Square Enix Account Management System.

Square Enix CrystaYou can pay for options by adding Crysta to your account and using your Crysta balance to pay service fees. To use Crysta, select it on the payment method selection screen.
*Crysta cannot be used as a payment method if you do not have enough in your account.
*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

Credit Card, Debit Card and ClickandBuy accountIn addition to Crysta, you can pay for some services with a credit card, debit card or use other options via ClickandBuy account.
ClickandBuy is an account-based billing system provided by ClickandBuy International Limited. An account can be acquired for free and used to add options and automatically pay service fees per service period. To use credit cards or debit cards as your payment method, select "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" from the payment method selection screen.
*It is possible to register multiple credit cards and debit cards to a single ClickandBuy account.

For information on service fees, please refer to the service's website.

Depending on your country of residence, Square Enix Crysta may not be available. If you live in such a location, please use "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" to settle your service fees.
*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.

Source file: Squareenix 'How to Add Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html)

How is it a good business move, to force this change on us (the consumer) without ensuring that it's legally accepted and available in all countries the game is available in? The other option (payment via gamer card (aka PlaySpan)) is another option which isn't available to every country either, due to the fact that the cards aren't available in said countries. Some may say you can buy them on Amazon.com or Ebay, but what about those who don't have access to them? No matter how much spin control is put on this, there will be some who will suffer due to this... and I'm not talking about new players etc, but some who played from when the game was released, who may now be forced to quit over this debacle.

Someone else posted earlier in this thread a list of countries where Crysta isn't available (at this time)... Just like with releasing FFXIV in the shambolic mess it was in (solely to beat WoW's Cataclysm), SE didn't learn from that and have made the same mistake again by forcing this on us. I've been paying via direct payment since 16th of December 2006 (yes, I remember the exact date I started), and at the end of the month if this situation has been rectified, I'll be bidding Vana'diel adieu. I refuse to have anything to do with Clickandbuy, and the prepaid cards is something I don't like either. Yes I prefer Direct Payment, and (as I said above) as the network to allow Direct payment is still in place, I don't see why they don't have that as a option for the rest of the world (along with Crysta and prepaid cards), like the JP gamers have all three options.


I personally think this move is a better deal. I no longer have to deal with PoL's 'your card can not be verified.' crap

That's your decision and I respect that. I on the otherhand (and there are others who have posted here as well who feel the same as myself) do not like this and I honestly hope SE takes a step back and re-evaluate this situation, as if they go through with it in the short time they may receive a boost in revenue, but for the long term they may suffer for it.

Just as with XIV dying (and it is... being ftp ever since release, has made it a financial sinkhole for SE. XI paid for it's development etc in it's first 6 months of release, bringing in revenue fairly shortly after being shipped out.), this move will cripple XI and (as I've said in a earlier post) may cause other repercussions against them. Former XI gamers who may've had other games on pre-order or intention to buy said games which have Square Enix on them (either developed or published etc) may in turn cancel their orders/change their mind due to this. Hence future revenue is in jeopardy, and while some here may laugh that off or say that'll never happen... never say never. I've worked in the retail trenches and I know how hard it can be for customers who've been burnt by a certain company's product etc, to return back to them with their hard earned money, when something else is nearby at a better price etc.

If a consumer is treated fairly at whatever business, they'll tell 2-3 people about how great they are etc. If a consumer is treated badly at said business, they'll tell 10-12 people about how terrible they are etc. This debacle is already on numerous other forums (I know of four which aren't even linked with FFXI, but may have some link to the FF series in general...) and the reaction to this on those forums is resoundingly negative.


As i said before, what you think is 'not fair' is fair. jp players are having to pay taxes on this game where as you're not. They pay 5 dollars more just to play the game.Why would you want to pay 18 dollars to play...
12.95 x 12 = $155.4
17.95 x 12 = $215.4
total amount extra charged/year: $60.

I don't know why you're so hung up over that. In any event, if you prefer this option... then go ahead and enjoy it. Just bare in mind that they are others who don't like this or can't utilize either of these new payment options due to neither being available to them, or it's just the principle of the matter.

[RAIST]

http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service2.htm

Making the Most of Opportunities

Whatever it is that your company does, no matter how you do it, you make a promise to each and every customer that darkens your virtual door. You enter into a contract, even if the terms aren't explicitly stated. The consumer pays you something, and you promise to provide a product or a service. There are pledges of quality and quickness. Customer service involves living up to your word on these matters, but it really gets to shine when something goes wrong.

Here's the thing. Mistakes are opportunities -- golden ones. Here's why. Studies show that a satisfied customer will tell 2-3 people about his experience with your company. A dissatisfied consumer will share their lament with 8-10 people and some will push that number to twenty.

But here's the opportunity. An unhappy customer will become a loyal consumer if you fix his complaint and do it quickly. Eighty percent (80%) of these folks will come back to you if you've treated them fairly. That percentage rises to the upper 90s if you respond immediately. Every day you have the chance to transform your mistakes into returning customers -- the kind who will tell other people good things about you. Imagine that.

[Revanchist]

http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service2.htm

Making the Most of Opportunities

Whatever it is that your company does, no matter how you do it, you make a promise to each and every customer that darkens your virtual door. You enter into a contract, even if the terms aren't explicitly stated. The consumer pays you something, and you promise to provide a product or a service. There are pledges of quality and quickness. Customer service involves living up to your word on these matters, but it really gets to shine when something goes wrong.

Here's the thing. Mistakes are opportunities -- golden ones. Here's why. Studies show that a satisfied customer will tell 2-3 people about his experience with your company. A dissatisfied consumer will share their lament with 8-10 people and some will push that number to twenty.

But here's the opportunity. An unhappy customer will become a loyal consumer if you fix his complaint and do it quickly. Eighty percent (80%) of these folks will come back to you if you've treated them fairly. That percentage rises to the upper 90s if you respond immediately. Every day you have the chance to transform your mistakes into returning customers -- the kind who will tell other people good things about you. Imagine that.

That is correct. It's a shame that so many companies don't follow along with this, yet there are a great many that do. If only SE had left Direct Payment as a option, alongside the new methods, there wouldn't of been this much uproar imo.

[Malamasala]

I actually think that if they had just bundled it with another mog satchel, the complaints would have been half as many. Mostly because some people don't mind losing money if they get something they really wanted along the way. But a once a week teleport item? Nah, that won't make anyone happy.

[Panthera]

But a once a week teleport item? Nah, that won't make anyone happy.

Yeah, this item is particularly lame considering the hassle and risk we have to go through.

They have three weeks and two days to fix things. I figure give people two weeks to get this taken care of, so using that time frame, they have one week and change to come up with more options, or refine the options we have. I checked POL/forums just now figuring they'd have announced something today, but no. Maybe tomorrow?

[Luvbunny]

Sorry, but no, no Click and Buy for me, not an option. Why can we pay direct using Paypal account? That would take care a lot of problems in the US and you don't have to own credit card. I guess for most of us, it will be bye bye FF11, hello other new games :)

[Cylla]

This is warning: Do NOT use ClickandScam

Since Aug 1st I had been getting a 105 error code and I tried off and on a few times over.

When I went to go pay for my WoW account today, my credit card was being declined. Annoyed with this, I went over to my Aion account and tried to active that, got the same thing.

Called my credit card company and came to find that ClickandBuy was trying to submit the payment for $11.00 (not even the right amount for my FF account!) 53 god damn times! It locked my credit card up and I had to get the lock removed.

Nice job SE, got anymore scam sites up your sleeve for us to sign up with? >.<;

[Panthera]

This is warning: Do NOT use ClickandScam

Since Aug 1st I had been getting a 105 error code and I tried off and on a few times over.

When I went to go pay for my WoW account today, my credit card was being declined. Annoyed with this, I went over to my Aion account and tried to active that, got the same thing.

Called my credit card company and came to find that ClickandBuy was trying to submit the payment for $11.00 (not even the right amount for my FF account!) 53 god damn times! It locked my credit card up and I had to get the lock removed.

Nice job SE, got anymore scam sites up your sleeve for us to sign up with? >.<;
Well that's just what you get for playing WoW.

Kidding! Goodness! I can't believe they'd try something like that, and it messes up everything else you want to do with your card. Not giving them my CC#, not buying Chrysta through them.

[Rakshaka]

I'm currently trying to sign up with click and buy, I had to provide a photograph of my driver's license, which they promptly read incorrectly and claimed that it was expired (which it's not). What kind of professional company can't even read a drivers licence expiration date? Are they just incompetent? After hearing Cylla's issue, I'm thinking of just canceling right away. They sound like they're more trouble than they're worth. Square Enix, you really need to do a better job at finding friends, or you're going to lose A LOT of customers.

[Cylla]

Well that's just what you get for playing WoW.

Kidding! Goodness! I can't believe they'd try something like that, and it messes up everything else you want to do with your card. Not giving them my CC#, not buying Chrysta through them.

lol! It was that or Aion and for some reason just had to go with WoW for at least a month until HOPEFULLY SE figures out what they are doing. I have very little faith in SE coming up with new payment options for us by the end of Aug though :( I would rather be playing FFXI over both, but what ya going to do?

I've thought about closing out my C&B account but I think I read somewhere that someone got hit with a $15.00 fee for closing their account with them! What bull crap >.< So yeah, wouldn't got with C&B for anything and since my paypal card takes from my bank account which all that money goes to bills right now (damn needing a new car!) I have to use credit card...so no C&B and no Crysta for me. Hahaha not going to waste the gas to get a gamecard also :D

[Arhat]

Some of you would better help your cause if you had friends come post about them not liking the changes. Half this thread is posts by 5 people it feels like. I really don't like this system either though.

[Bahamut_Norm]

So, here's been my experience with this miserable system thus far;

1) Can't register a card to more than one account.
2) The email address of the account registered to has been destroyed, thanks to my horrible ISP.
3) The password got reset, so I can't finish resetting the password.
4) The service is international, meaning I have to make a very f-ing long distance phone call to not resolve the problem.
5) I can no longer play.

Tomorrow, I'm calling square and until someone fixes it. I don't care how, I don't care who. Oh, and it's going to be toll free.

Thanks square. Thanks for your miserable f-ing selection of card processors. It's not like you could find another one to use or anything. I mean, it's not like there's any North American companies who'd be willing to service North America. Ones with 24 hour support service. Or ones that have some common sense. Heck, it's awful hard to do it yourselves too. Good job. Top score.

[Niyariko]

I've been posting on this thread but didn't really post what I experienced with CnB....

I have created my CnB account long ago when 14CE first came out (Sept 2010), I'm using...
- Canadian (TD Canada Trust.) Visa CreditCard with 3DS, verified by CnB
- NA copy of FFXI (bought in EB games in Ottawa)
- NA SE account

Yet, I get an Origin Error when trying to log in CnB within SEAM (I just tried it now again to see, still doesn't work). I have yet to transfer my FFXI account to SEAM and not going to do so.
I won't be online on Sept 1st for sure (quit or take a break, still haven't decide), after 8+ years of continuous support to your game... this is lame.

I demand Direct Credit Card payment to Square Enix now, just like how you used to accept our credit card in POL and just like how you are STILL accepting from the Japanese players. If you want to run a global region MMORPG as one community, you'll need to treat them the same. Offering only 2 kinds of payments (CnB/Crysta) is just not enough for a globally known game company running an MMO with 350,000 (as of mid 2010) (http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx) subscribers.

Not everyone on here are having trouble with CnB, but so far as I can see, all of them have some what of a negative comment about CnB. Fix your payment system please, thank you.

[Soulrunner]

Personally I have yet to get either system to work, but I did clean up my Paypal account. I suppose when SE finishes the maintenance something can get done. Really SE why have you not learned yet? Blizzard has so many subscribers because

A: They invest time in their game, which goes down for maintenance every tuesday, sometimes for major maintenance sometimes for simple rolling restarts that last 15 mins.

and

B: Their billing system is clean easy and varied, pay by credit, paypal, prepaid game card, whatever it all works.

I'm signing this petition, not because i don't believe in SE, I really do you've provided a great dependable service for 8 wonderful years. But because I believe you can do better, Paypal is safe, reliable, and used worldwide. Not to mention the playerbase has been clamouring for you to use it for years now, so why not let us? Or at least clean up Crysta so we can purchase a package with the right amount to continue playing FFXI.

[Kaeoni]

{Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass}

Dear SE: Stick to the Offline Business. You Obviously have no idea what you're doing.

Diablo 3 where art thou release date?

[Runespider]

I'm currently trying to sign up with click and buy, I had to provide a photograph of my driver's license, which they promptly read incorrectly and claimed that it was expired (which it's not). What kind of professional company can't even read a drivers licence expiration date? Are they just incompetent? After hearing Cylla's issue, I'm thinking of just canceling right away. They sound like they're more trouble than they're worth. Square Enix, you really need to do a better job at finding friends, or you're going to lose A LOT of customers.

This is the problem really, you assume Square would think enough of it's players to choose a trustworthy company to handle payments. Many will swap over on pure faith in SE alone. When people get ripped off they won't blame Click and Buy, they will blame SE for picking them and abusing the faith their players have in them by picking such a shody company.

I'm amazed Square don't realise this.

[Kojo]

{Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass}

Dear SE: Stick to the Offline Business. You Obviously have no idea what you're doing.

Diablo 3 where art thou release date?

P.S. SE, if you're sticking to offline business, make an FF9 remake for PS3, I love that game!

[Niyariko]

P.S. SE, if you're sticking to offline business, make an FF9 remake for PS3, I love that game!

I know they are working on FFXI offline atm. :D

edit: I should say with switching to CnB, they are working towards FFXI offline atm with too many deactivated accounts. :p

[Kojo]

I know they are working on FFXI offline atm. :D

That'd be cool, I wouldn't have to bother with all these stu- I mean lovely people.

[Vazerus]

That'd be cool, I wouldn't have to bother with all these stu- I mean lovely people.

Co-op ffxi ftw? Won't have to deal with people you don't like, yet still get to play with a few people :D.

/wishes....


...it won't happen :(.

[Bagel]

Tried to obtain crysta and cannot figure it out other than to sign up for clickandbuy, which i do not want to use. Might bother trying to figure out another method after my account gets shut down.

[LadyRagefist]

Cancelled my Content ID's for good today, because I refuse to take part in this Click and Buy shady as shit business.
No, I'm not going to go to a convenient store to buy a card for Crysta, that's the kinda shit you do for Farmville or some other retarded ass games. Not a MMO. And don't try to justify it by saying that MMO's like Maple Story/Wizard 101/Dragonica/Aeria do the same thing. Those games suck, and they can't even come close to FFXI.

Fact of the matter is, I see 90+ pages of replies from a largely pissed off playerbase, and still, zero fucks given by SE. That's grounds enough for me to say my final farewell to the game I played for 7 years now; because clearly their minds are made up. It was a good run, and though I didn't finish all the things I wanted to finish before quitting, I still got a lot done.

See you in November for Star Wars: TOR.

[Neika]

You never know, after september or october come around and they see how much money they aren't making from everyone who didn't transfer because of the shitty payment options, they might decide to add direct payments back. Until they do I know my accounts aren't being transfered.

[Panthera]

You never know, after september or october come around and they see how much money they aren't making from everyone who didn't transfer because of the shitty payment options, they might decide to add direct payments back. Until they do I know my accounts aren't being transfered.

But if you waited, you won't get the Rousney Wand.

[Muse]

You never know, after september or october come around and they see how much money they aren't making from everyone who didn't transfer because of the shitty payment options, they might decide to add direct payments back.

Having to wait till then just shows SE is disconnected from it's fan base, and poor business sense as many others have pointed out.

This is a problem that needs to be fixed BEFORE SEP and OCT or next year even. Especially since SE's profits will go down and there goes FFXIV. I , and several others in my shells, bet it's FFXI's profits paying for FFXIV right now as it's still FREE TO PLAY.

So SE has a real choice here. Lose fans, costumers, and possibly one of their MMO's. Or... Give better payment options and not lose anything.

The Ball is in your court now SE.

[Panthera]

This is a problem that needs to be fixed BEFORE SEP and OCT or next year even. Especially since SE's profits will go down and there goes FFXIV. I , and several others in my shells, bet it's FFXI's profits paying for FFXIV right now as it's still FREE TO PLAY.

So SE has a real choice here. Lose fans, costumers, and possibly one of their MMO's. Or... Give better payment options and not lose anything.


I don't see SE waiting till after the end of this month to fix this issue. By then it's too late. They would prevent loss of customers in the first place, rather than fixing it after they've lost customers. I'd say to an extent, they already are losing people here and there.

[Ravenmore]

{Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass}

Dear SE: Stick to the Offline Business. You Obviously have no idea what you're doing.

Diablo 3 where art thou release date?

Really they have no idea hat they doing thier either. Final fantasy off line gaqmes have been going down in a giant ball of fire. Have you even played. They don't make good games any more they trade only on the fans inner fanboy and bank only on the name alone to move units.

[Muse]

I'd say to an extent, they already are losing people here and there.

I agree. SE is losing costumers and doing what they're doing is only going to cause their downfall even faster. Maybe that's what they want.

[Niyariko]

...I see 90+ pages of replies from a largely pissed off playerbase, and still, zero fucks given by SE. That's grounds enough for me to say my final farewell to the game I played for 7 years now...

You shouldn't say something like that, in a thread like this. SE will soon delete this thread (has happened before on similar topic on this forum, they don't like what they hear, they make an excuse and delete it :p), and just pretend our concern never happened. SE wouldn't want to see us in encouraging other users to cancel account coz of their fail decision in forcing us to switch to CnB ;)

What SE done in switching to CnB might save them a couple bucks (or even cents) for each account, but also comes with an extreme high risk in loosing a lot of current and future customers. Making such big risk with so little in return is a reckless business strategy.

[Niyariko]

But if you waited, you won't get the Rousney Wand.

They will need to give us 2 relics and 2 mystics + 50% off on monthly payment for us to use CnB :D
By then, I still won't use CnB, but consider in switching to use Crysta :p

Rousney Wand, I'll really miss teleporting to Chocobofu*kingCircuit. /sarcasm :(

[Kaeoni]

I agree. SE is losing costumers and doing what they're doing is only going to cause their downfall even faster. Maybe that's what they want.

Square-Enix's Response in the form of an "Amazing" picture: http://classic-icon.com/spiderman/1%20(5).jpg

I'm pretty laid back when it comes to how they picture FFxi in the grand scheme of things with their Manifesto nonsense and the rest of the crap they dream up because i have a lot of friends who play this game and just deal with the constant curve balls they toss our way.

But this crosses over into inconveniencing our lives outside the game. I'm not nickle and diming here, It's just a line that was crossed. Unless Crysta comes out to exact increments for you, chances are you're more likely to use Click n Buy. Yea... how about a company that doesn't screw you over, Oh wait we subscribe monthly to one already. If you didn't clue in, I'm talking about 3 certain mini expansions that came out before Abyssea. I'm sad i got played on that one. You got me SE, you got me, lesson learned though. */slow clap*

Don't get me wrong i'm not totally dissatisfied with Square-Enix as a company or how they handle their online agenda. If i were i wouldn't have played for as long as i have. But it just seems like some cheap tricks have been used in recent years against the very people whom put you, Square-Enix, on the map.. We aren't stupid, why do you treat us like we are.

I hate to play the Blizzard card but, they would never do such a thing to their customers, they have always been an upfront and prompt bunch of people who work diligently trying to please their loyal fans.

You bite the hand that literally feeds you, so i ask you this, who's the fool now...

[RAIST]

Go to their holdings site's news archives and read their last several financial reports....looks like we may be SOL on these issues:
http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/2011/

SE has been bleeding money for some time now, loosing it steadily for the 2011 calender year (if not longer). They finally closed the last contract with EIDOS acquisition, and are looking to expand influence in NA, EU, and Middle East, and are putting more trust in Digital Distributions and less on Packaged Products. They are more or less writing off expectations of recovering losses until 2013.

[Kojo]

Go to their holdings site's news archives and read their last several financial reports....looks like we may be SOL on these issues:
http://www.square-enix.com/eng/news/2011/

SE has been bleeding money for some time now, loosing it steadily for the 2011 calender year (if not longer). They finally closed the last contract with EIDOS acquisition, and are looking to expand influence in NA, EU, and Middle East, and are putting more trust in Digital Distributions and less on Packaged Products. They are more or less writing off expectations of recovering losses until 2013.

Won't they just be losing more in going through with these plans?

[Byrth]

Well, actually I think their explanation for that is pretty viable and the report itself doesn't indicate anything is really wrong with the company. They had no major releases, so they compare poorly with the previous year. Big deal.

[Korpg]

I just browsed this thread from page 30 or so and all I see are pretty much the same 10 people complaining about this new system.

I don't think that SE will do anything because 10 people do not signify a majority. Or a playerbase. Or anything but people who just like to complain.

So, if those 10 people are truly going to leave, that isn't going to hurt SE any at all. Nice knowing you.

[RAIST]

Won't they just be losing more in going through with these plans?

http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/docs/110513/page05.html
(Yoichi Wada, President and Representative Director)

In general, we are not expecting to see a big recovery of results in this fiscal year ending March 2012, but rather are rebuilding in the current year toward our target of record profits in fiscal year ending March 2013. We plan to continue stable shareholder returns of 30 yen per share as cumulative dividends for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2011.

They're kinda saying in these reports that they are revamping just about everything and don't really care too much about the bottom line between now and 03/2012. They are more focused on expected profits for fiscal year ending 03/2013 and beyond.


http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/docs/110513/page10.html

While the results of this fiscal year, which is in the midst of a transitory period, are regrettable, the start of a real recovery will begin from next fiscal year.

[mistmonster]

I don't think that SE will do anything because 10 people do not signify a majority. Or a playerbase. Or anything but people who just like to complain.


You may want to count again, yes certain folks are more vocal and I'm glad for it. But what I see is lots of non forum types (as seen by their low post count) coming to this forum and posting there dismay with the system. Also the almost 80 "likes" on the OP and the 1 or 2 random new threads created every other day say something too. Not to mention what is going OTHER less moderated sites. There has been plenty of nuked threads on the same subject.

With all the talk of job changes and other things this thread still tops them in the almost 73,000 views it has.

Seems like a lot more than 10 to me.

[Korpg]

You may want to count again, yes certain folks are more vocal and I'm glad for it. But what I see is lots of non forum types (as seen by their low post count) coming to this forum and posting there dismay with the system. Also the almost 80 "likes" on the OP and the 1 or 2 random new threads created every other day say something too. Not to mention what is going OTHER less moderated sites. There has been plenty of nuked threads on the same subject.

With all the talk of job changes and other things this thread still tops them in the almost 73,000 views it has.

Seems like a lot more than 10 to me.

How many people are truly going to quit from this? How many people really have a problem as to people who just like to complain for complaining's sake?

Also, 73k views? This thread has drama and that is what people like. I'm surprised you never realized that to be honest. The same 10 people are bumping up this thread to keep the drama flowing.

[Azagthoth]

How many people are truly going to quit from this? How many people really have a problem as to people who just like to complain for complaining's sake?

Also, 73k views? This thread has drama and that is what people like. I'm surprised you never realized that to be honest. The same 10 people are bumping up this thread to keep the drama flowing.

You and Rosina are two of the only ones that are aruging for the sake of arguing, to try to create drama. Why are you against having the system changed for the better?

[RAIST]

Well, I know of 5 accounts that already haven't/won't been renewed because of this situation. A 6th player was toying with coming back after her long break (almost 2 years), but after hearing about this change it convinced her to not come back. So, essentially my posts acount for at least 6 confirmed account losses, 5 of those with at least 1 mule.

Other's have posted they knew people that got kicked out with the last billing that aren't planning to renew if they don't change this either. There are still people with active accounts who still don't know exactly what is going on either. So there will likely be a bigger back lash once this thing is fully implemented and accounts are cut off. Some may be left with little to no options for payment (as we've seen with some who currently can't use C&B, nor Crysta).

It's a fairly simple thing to fix if SE would just pony up and do it. Implement the direct-pay via CC option for the NA/EU players just like they have done for the JP users, and let it run in parallel to the new methods. The motivation should be simple enough: potential to not only maintain their current subscription levels, but possibly increase them as well as they'd be providing a method of payment for those previously unable to pay with a 3DS enabled account.

[Byrth]

Alukat, Finuve, Puck, Runespider, Karbuncle, Seha, Kraggy, Paksenarrion, mistmonster, Olor, Aurara, Romanova, Dreaubaut, Vivik, Dragoy, Inafking, Arcalimo, Alhanelem, Malamasala, Neonii, Panthera, Zakuto, Zoner, Orson, Dooom, Raksha, Byrth, Maacha, Firesped, Orlind, Octavaine, Niyariko, drwaffles, ceown, Rearden, Coldbrand, Illen, Ramsos, Zatias, Laphine, Mightyg, Muse, slakyak, Khiinroye, InfamousDS, Unleashhell, shigen, MAXWINTER, Muras, Leonlionheart, Dauntless, Insaniac, Tiberius, Vazerus, Charismatic, Komori, Zumi, Tacotaru, Dijana, Selamis, laos278, Joslyn, Swords, Puck, Ardiem, Andreja, kewitt, Meyi, Ziyyogo-Tipyigo, Chriscoffey, Artoriousrex, Atomic_Skull, Gotterdammerung, Babygyrl, Cylla, Sekundes, Unaisis, Eeek, Wagram, Kitkat, Manque, Pharaun, Hercule

Well, that was up to post 240 (out of 942), with people expressing support of the new system removed. See a lot of unfamiliar names? That's because they registered on the forums just to post in this thread.

[Panthera]

Alukat, Finuve, Puck, Runespider, Karbuncle, Seha, Kraggy, Paksenarrion, mistmonster, Olor, Aurara, Romanova, Dreaubaut, Vivik, Dragoy, Inafking, Arcalimo, Alhanelem, Malamasala, Neonii, Panthera, Zakuto, Zoner, Orson, Dooom, Raksha, Byrth, Maacha, Firesped, Orlind, Octavaine, Niyariko, drwaffles, ceown, Rearden, Coldbrand, Illen, Ramsos, Zatias, Laphine, Mightyg, Muse, slakyak, Khiinroye, InfamousDS, Unleashhell, shigen, MAXWINTER, Muras, Leonlionheart, Dauntless, Insaniac, Tiberius, Vazerus, Charismatic, Komori, Zumi, Tacotaru, Dijana, Selamis, laos278, Joslyn, Swords, Puck, Ardiem, Andreja, kewitt, Meyi, Ziyyogo-Tipyigo, Chriscoffey, Artoriousrex, Atomic_Skull, Gotterdammerung, Babygyrl, Cylla, Sekundes, Unaisis, Eeek, Wagram, Kitkat, Manque, Pharaun, Hercule

Well, that was up to post 240 (out of 942), with people expressing support of the new system removed. See a lot of unfamiliar names? That's because they registered on the forums just to post in this thread.

I count about 83 people, give or take.

[Korpg]

Alukat, Finuve, Puck, Runespider, Karbuncle, Seha, Kraggy, Paksenarrion, mistmonster, Olor, Aurara, Romanova, Dreaubaut, Vivik, Dragoy, Inafking, Arcalimo, Alhanelem, Malamasala, Neonii, Panthera, Zakuto, Zoner, Orson, Dooom, Raksha, Byrth, Maacha, Firesped, Orlind, Octavaine, Niyariko, drwaffles, ceown, Rearden, Coldbrand, Illen, Ramsos, Zatias, Laphine, Mightyg, Muse, slakyak, Khiinroye, InfamousDS, Unleashhell, shigen, MAXWINTER, Muras, Leonlionheart, Dauntless, Insaniac, Tiberius, Vazerus, Charismatic, Komori, Zumi, Tacotaru, Dijana, Selamis, laos278, Joslyn, Swords, Puck, Ardiem, Andreja, kewitt, Meyi, Ziyyogo-Tipyigo, Chriscoffey, Artoriousrex, Atomic_Skull, Gotterdammerung, Babygyrl, Cylla, Sekundes, Unaisis, Eeek, Wagram, Kitkat, Manque, Pharaun, Hercule

Well, that was up to post 240 (out of 942), with people expressing support of the new system removed. See a lot of unfamiliar names? That's because they registered on the forums just to post in this thread.

Noticed your name on the list, so I guess I'll see you next month. Seriously.

[Byrth]

I didn't say everyone was quitting, I said they were displeased with the new system. Feel free to declare victory next month when no one complains about the new system anymore though. (Protip: You can't post without an active account)

[Panthera]

How many people are truly going to quit from this? How many people really have a problem as to people who just like to complain for complaining's sake?

How many people are posting just to get a reaction out of people, aka trolling? I count at least one. Goodness, even Rosina gave up after awhile.


Also, 73k views? This thread has drama and that is what people like. I'm surprised you never realized that to be honest. The same 10 people are bumping up this thread to keep the drama flowing.

And you yourself aren't keeping the drama flowing?



Noticed your name on the list, so I guess I'll see you next month. Seriously.

Korpg thinks I'm bluffing. I'm sorting my inventory right now trying to find all the $#%*s I give.

[Korpg]

I didn't say everyone was quitting, I said they were displeased with the new system. Feel free to declare victory next month when no one complains about the new system anymore though. (Protip: You can't post without an active account)

I'm sorry, I thought that list was all the people who were quiting, which is what I was talking about. I don't see anyone is going to really quit over this, because if they were going to quit, they would have done so already before the month changed to August.

Yet....they are all still here....hmmm....

[Korpg]

How many people are posting just to get a reaction out of people, aka trolling? I count at least one. Goodness, even Rosina gave up after awhile.

In this thread? I count at least 10. Before I even came back to this thread.




And you yourself aren't keeping the drama flowing?


I guess so, but bumping this thread to show people how much they are causing their own problems is a necessary evil I guess.




Korpg thinks I'm bluffing. I'm sorting my inventory right now trying to find all the $#%*s I give.

If you were going to quit, you would have quit on July 28th when this whole thing came to light, not still here on August 11th "sorting your inventory." The quitters already quit, the people who are complaining still are those who complain for the sake of complaining.

[Zumi]

I think people are making a bigger deal out of this then it is. There seems to be a few vocal people that complain about this a lot but I logged on FFXI several times this month did a /sea all I didn't really see a drop in players at all. The numbers seem to be about the same pre transfer. Just what I expected most people who played for 8 years aren't going to be driven away by a payment method change. They like their FFXI so much they won't want to give up playing their chars they worked on for a long time.

Yes click and buy sucks they charge more fees. However you can just load up 6 months worth of Crysta and not have to worry about it for a long time. That's about the same amount of money you spend going to a higher end restaurant. Just don't go out to eat one day pay for FFXI for 6 months.

[Azagthoth]

I guess so, but bumping this thread to show people how much they are causing their own problems is a necessary evil I guess.

I didn't realize that trying to a company to improve their payment system was causing me a problem. Thanks, you're a lifesaver.

I'll say it again. Why are you against having the system changed for the better?

[Korpg]

I didn't realize that trying to a company to improve their payment system was causing me a problem. Thanks, you're a lifesaver.

I'll say it again. Why are you against having the system changed for the better?

When the change is worse off than the old system, then I would see why people would complain. So far, the change is not worse, it just is a minor inconvenience.

I'm remembering PSN. Not that Click and Buy is really any safer, but then again, nothing is really safe, is it?

I'm just tired of all the crying over spilled milk. Crying over nothing. Crying because you didn't get your way.

I'm sorry that you have to change your account info one time, but enough is enough. You are not going to get your way, and the sooner this thread falls off the radar, the better.

That is the end of what I have to say, because continuing will be counterproductive now.

[mistmonster]

Yes I have essentially quit, basically since the announcement I stopped doing anything productive. When SE stops taking my good credit card then I will no longer have access. I will be "sorting my inventory" here soon as I do have things and pops that should go to other people. Kind of the same with netflix. I'm abusing their service right now before I kick them out the door or upping their costs. But I'm less mad at netflix, they are not making me jump through hoops to OVER pay them.

[Panthera]

If you were going to quit, you would have quit on July 28th when this whole thing came to light, not still here on August 11th "sorting your inventory." The quitters already quit, the people who are complaining still are those who complain for the sake of complaining.
No, SE mentioned they'd improve the payment options, so anything could happen. I'm playing the "wait and see" game like so many others are. I'm betting they'll come out with something within the next 7 days, although they might pull out the stops at the last minute, who knows? If they don't fix it, my account will take care of itself, and I won't be clicking "view this post" out of morbid curiosity. You'd think I'd learn.

And you don't know me. You don't know what I will do or would have done and why. And I don't know you, so you really could be this @$#(*@, or you're merely trolling. I really do hope you're just trolling for your own sake.

[Octaviane]

When the change is worse off than the old system, then I would see why people would complain. So far, the change is not worse, it just is a minor inconvenience.

I'm remembering PSN. Not that Click and Buy is really any safer, but then again, nothing is really safe, is it?

I'm just tired of all the crying over spilled milk. Crying over nothing. Crying because you didn't get your way.

I'm sorry that you have to change your account info one time, but enough is enough. You are not going to get your way, and the sooner this thread falls off the radar, the better.

That is the end of what I have to say, because continuing will be counterproductive now.

Good now G**O of here!

[Octaviane]

I'm sorry, I thought that list was all the people who were quiting, which is what I was talking about. I don't see anyone is going to really quit over this, because if they were going to quit, they would have done so already before the month changed to August.

Yet....they are all still here....hmmm....

Guess you can't read either Master Troll

[Arcon]

If you were going to quit, you would have quit on July 28th when this whole thing came to light, not still here on August 11th "sorting your inventory."

Wrong, as usual. They weren't quitting because they could still play without having to change or do a god damn thing. And they would sort their inventory to leave stuff for friends who may not quit. Wrong also in so many other regards, like people bluffing or only the same people complaining, all of it.


I think people are making a bigger deal out of this then it is. There seems to be a few vocal people that complain about this a lot but I logged on FFXI several times this month did a /sea all I didn't really see a drop in players at all. The numbers seem to be about the same pre transfer.

What transfer? The transfer didn't happen yet for most of the community. See above.


When the change is worse off than the old system, then I would see why people would complain. So far, the change is not worse, it just is a minor inconvenience.

Wrong, again, what a shock. In addition to a 30% price increase for me (even without any additional fees) I have to go through great lengths to overpay even more with Crysta, and I have to overpay manually, every month, because ClickandBuy doesn't even accept my credit cards. And you still don't seem to be able to get it into your little head that some people cannot, physically, choose either option. There are entire countries that cannot play after this. This is not a matter of bluffing, it's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of you're wrong. You already admitted you're trolling, so just go away and let people rightfully bitch at the most inane business decision SE has made in a very long time, possibly ever, considering FFXI is their cash cow. At some point you stop being a troll and start being a child. You've crossed that point miles ago. Time to stop and turn around, or just give it up.

[Upokupo]

Yeah, this was a pretty boneheaded decision. I will not be using Click and Buy. There is 100% no reason to outsource this. FFXI is a SE product not a CB product.

OH! And, you can bet your bottom dollar when there are issues the finger pointing will be kicked in high gear. Not renewing my account come the end of August. We'll see how things go and whether or not I will do the Crysta thing through ultimatepay. Which I highly doubt because these point systems are a total rip off. Always have been and always will be.

But, hey, if it all works for you then God Bless and go forward.

[Niyariko]

When the change is worse off than the old system, then I would see why people would complain. So far, the change is not worse, it just is a minor inconvenience.

I'm remembering PSN. Not that Click and Buy is really any safer, but then again, nothing is really safe, is it?

I'm just tired of all the crying over spilled milk. Crying over nothing. Crying because you didn't get your way.

I'm sorry that you have to change your account info one time, but enough is enough. You are not going to get your way, and the sooner this thread falls off the radar, the better.

That is the end of what I have to say, because continuing will be counterproductive now.

You have never experienced what some of us are going thru, when you see an Origin Error message from setting up your SEAM/CnB account, come back, we will be here to listen to your concern as well. I do really wish the Origin Error is a one time message, but for me, is popping up every time.

But until then...

[Atomic_Skull]

It's now August 10'th, SE account management system says I was supposed to be billed on the 1'st, but I still haven't been charged. I tried contacting SE support but they just keep sending me an email about how to reactivate an overdue account. I guess SE wants to let me play for free.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

At some point you stop being a troll and start being a child. You've crossed that point miles ago. Time to stop and turn around, or just give it up.
Thank you!


That is the end of what I have to say, because continuing will be counterproductive now
That would assume that you saying anything was productive to begin with.

As a side note, and back on topic... Am I quitting?
No. I've invested too much time and effort and have made far too many valuable friends to quit now. Were I unable to purchase Crysta, or as a last ditch effort use C&B.... I suppose I wouldn't really have any choice. But regardless, after 7+ years of playing I shouldn't HAVE to worry about that. Which is where the complaints are stemming from.

Am I cutting back on my account expenditures as a result?
Yes. More than likely I'll be cutting off my sister's account and trimming away most of my mules. Not because I can't put them to some use, but because I want as little of my money to go to SE as possible. Piddly and perhaps useless... but *shrugs* every dollar less they make as a result will be a dollar more that helps them realize what a FUBAR this is.

I'm not continuing to play because I support or don't care about the changes, I'm continuing to play because I don't want to lose contact with all those wonderful, glorious and dear friends I've made over the last 7 years.

[Azagthoth]

When the change is worse off than the old system, then I would see why people would complain. So far, the change is not worse, it just is a minor inconvenience.

I'm remembering PSN. Not that Click and Buy is really any safer, but then again, nothing is really safe, is it?

I'm just tired of all the crying over spilled milk. Crying over nothing. Crying because you didn't get your way.

I'm sorry that you have to change your account info one time, but enough is enough. You are not going to get your way, and the sooner this thread falls off the radar, the better.

That is the end of what I have to say, because continuing will be counterproductive now.

It helps former players that didn't have a 3D Secure credit card and had no way of bypassing it. That's pretty much it.

What can be better than inputting my credit card information into the playonline client or a website and leaving it until my credit card expires?

[Byrth]

There was always a way around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uRQ-j8cbrY), there were just people that were willing to watch a youtube video with goofy music and those who weren't.

[Niyariko]

...What can be better than inputting my credit card information into the playonline client or a website and leaving it until my credit card expires?

QFT aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Runespider]

I'm not continuing to play because I support or don't care about the changes, I'm continuing to play because I don't want to lose contact with all those wonderful, glorious and dear friends I've made over the last 7 years.

Sadly this is what Square seem to be betting on, they are only going to react if there actually is any fallout from this. Given how addicted most of us are, there probably will be very little and they won't have to offer us any better services.

They used to fear losing us, now they know they have most of us hooked and they can treat us as badly as they like, more or less.

[Panthera]

They used to fear losing us, now they know they have most of us hooked and they can treat us as badly as they like, more or less.

Even an addict can go clean.

[Pokoyo]

more interesting reading re click and buy -

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2070511

the web is full of this kind of stuff from them... nice one SE !.. i dont want to use click and buy, and i dont want to naff around woith buying crysta each month, i just want you to take the money from my bank account and not worry about it like you have for the past 3 years.. why is that so hard ?

i signed up with you to take my money, not some 3rd party company whos customer service seems to be disgusting !..

im having major issues as it is with a complete reinstall due to two files being corrupt, still no nearer being able to reinstall my game, so maybe its just time to find a new online experiance !

[Tolby]

20 more days left untill I have to more than likely quit just because SE is being SE again.

[Pokoyo]

ok so im settin gup this click and buy thing... and so far, ive set my password, but yet on the next page it says my password is wrong... so i had to click on "forgot password" to reset my password, even though my password was correct, and now when i enter my "new" password, on the next screen it asks for my birthday for confirmation, and when i enter my birthday, it tells me my birthday is wrong and wont confirm my registration.. is this s**t for real ?????????????????

[Panthera]

Sadly this is what Square seem to be betting on, they are only going to react if there actually is any fallout from this. Given how addicted most of us are, there probably will be very little and they won't have to offer us any better services.

What's odd is the timing of this; End of August.

School is starting up for many, and this just seems like a distraction. Maybe it's junior/senior year of High School, and you're going to take it seriously. Maybe it's another year of college, and payment inconveniences are just the excuse you need to make a break. Maybe it's Grad school, and it's finally time to just give this up.

People can put years of their lives into a relationship, and finally one day decide it's time to walk away.

Don't forget, SE has a vested interest in this as well. Will SE kill the hen that layed the golden egg? C'mon, give them some credit. FFXI is not Fantasy Earth, not yet.

[Octaviane]

Sadly this is what Square seem to be betting on, they are only going to react if there actually is any fallout from this. Given how addicted most of us are, there probably will be very little and they won't have to offer us any better services.

They used to fear losing us, now they know they have most of us hooked and they can treat us as badly as they like, more or less.

Especially since the majority spent $$$'s buying Abyssea and are waiting for the level cap increase plus,plus, plus. Also they teased with a sticky referring to the "forthcoming" update. Usually the wording is "The next Version Update which is scheduled for release early, middle or late (August in this case) will include..."

SE is playing a very clever game. Either they are rushing to bring the Update online by the end of August, or they are going to release it early September, when those who got frustrated with the new payment method will just do it to continue playing. (Assuming they can).

[tenshismile]

you can buy Crysta though PayPal too~

[Revanchist]

you can buy Crysta though PayPal too~

A: Crysta isn't legally available in every country, so even buying through PayPal won't work as it isn't recoginised as a legally viable alternative to payment.
B: PlaySpan requires the game cards to 'top up' your account (like the WoW Time cards), but like Crysta, they aren't available in every country either.

So people who can't access Crysta or the game cards have been left by the wayside.

[Modoru]

...Someone quote the dev post or point me to it, I don't think I want to go through 100 pages of posts, and the crown is really picking at the back of my head when I see it. ; ;

[Neika]

...Someone quote the dev post or point me to it, I don't think I want to go through 100 pages of posts, and the crown is really picking at the back of my head when I see it. ; ;

It's the same one thats at the bottom of the "Square enix transfer FAQ" sticky second from the top of the sticky list. They just posted it here too incase people didn't check it there.

[Revanchist]

...Someone quote the dev post or point me to it, I don't think I want to go through 100 pages of posts, and the crown is really picking at the back of my head when I see it. ; ;


The following payment methods can be selected for settling service fees in the Square Enix Account Management System.

Square Enix CrystaYou can pay for options by adding Crysta to your account and using your Crysta balance to pay service fees. To use Crysta, select it on the payment method selection screen.
*Crysta cannot be used as a payment method if you do not have enough in your account.
*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

Credit Card, Debit Card and ClickandBuy accountIn addition to Crysta, you can pay for some services with a credit card, debit card or use other options via ClickandBuy account.
ClickandBuy is an account-based billing system provided by ClickandBuy International Limited. An account can be acquired for free and used to add options and automatically pay service fees per service period. To use credit cards or debit cards as your payment method, select "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" from the payment method selection screen.
*It is possible to register multiple credit cards and debit cards to a single ClickandBuy account.

For information on service fees, please refer to the service's website.

Depending on your country of residence, Square Enix Crysta may not be available. If you live in such a location, please use "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" to settle your service fees.
*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.


Source link: How To Add Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html)

Yes you can use a credit/debit card to purchase crysta via Clickandbuy... however due to the disreputable reputation of Clickandbuy (and in my case, asked to supply my passport/driver's license/birth certificate to prove my identity, no way I'll go that option).

[Modoru]

Oh darn, I thought it was something... I don't know, useful. :C

Thanks though, guys.

[Anathiel]

Can we use crysta to buy things from the square enix store, or is it only for monthly subscription fees?

[Pharaun]

Oh darn, I thought it was something... I don't know, useful. :C

Thanks though, guys.

Lol at SE actually being useful when it comes to a customer service issue, I don't think that has ever happened.

[Kimikryo]

Arrr I am fully in favor for putting back in something without click and buy. One of my Accounts is on that (my EU one) but my 2 US ones clickandbuy tells me that it is not possible in my country.

So I had to buy crysta, over paypal --- which I trust more than I do clicandbuy tbh

I dont even know if SE customer service takes their time to read such Forum Petitions, but I sure hope they do.

and Alukat, you better log in again, I need your THF pro advice :D

[Muse]

This finally got bumped off of the main page. lol

[Niyariko]

Almost page 100, where is our direct payment option now?

[katz]

So I finally get it, SE dont listen to the forums or their user communities. This isnt worth getting to page 100 because despite all the people saying we dont like it or want it, SE will not do anything to change the direction of this payment fiasco. Must be so much easier in a country you can just do what you like than actually have people with opinions.

[Leonlionheart]

Hi guys what's going on in this thread?

[Vivik]

Hi guys what's going on in this thread?

SE is pissing people off by not taking 5 minutes to set up a vendor account with Paypal. Teh internets are hard yo!

[Felren]

It's kind of been awhile since the last update for this being such a big situation...

After playing FFXI for so many years it was kind of easy to see their big PR movement was a business move and nothing else. Though anyone could see FFXIV bombing and the PR movement being an obvious move of desperation. I was just kind of hoping they would have a part of them that wanted to care more about the player, but at this point It just seems like its a mask they're putting on.

The FFXI forums haven't really helped that much thusfar, I've mostly seen generic responses to requests as such, "Though that's a great idea, the time it would take to do something like that would be out of our reach". Every suggestion seems to be "too hard", "too time consuming". Though a lot of suggestions may seem dumb and unneeded, I can think of at least one that made me laugh. This one was the thread about your character not blinking when changing equipment. A dev responded and called it "impossible to implement".... when it's been an addon for windower for a couple years. Impossible!


At this point I'm not sure if this forum would even have helped this issue in the long run either. I still don't think we'll see anything until next month when they see a lot of subscribers missing. I think the devs that actually read these forums know this is going to be a serious problem, but I think the higher-ups won't until they see their precious numbers down. This means action won't be taken until the same time as if the forums were never here. This makes the forums a PR stunt and useless. I'd love to be proven wrong, I'd like to see SE change, but after FFXIV, I've lost faith that anything other than money will talk to them.

[Lalime]

I like how the EU is stickied but what about the NA and the other countries that can't pay. I know for a fact that I am gonna get charged a foreign fee and if I do I am out. I am not over buying Crysta and have it sit. I want a direct option, exact Crysta, or other method based on us funds or I will walk. I have been playing since 2004 and have stayed on til now. I frankly don't trust click and buy from what I hear around here and rather deal with SE directly or pay an exact amount to a trustworthy company.

[Dohati]

i really don't see the big deal. it's a little inconvenient to switch your info over to click and buy, but it only takes a few minutes, and SE just wants to have both of their MMOs paid through the same method. i haven't had a single issue with click and buy and i've had an account since 14 came out. totally not worth quitting over.

[RAIST]

If it works for you, that's great. Other's have posted that it doesn't work (either not supported for their region, or their bank is rejecting them or other difficulties verifying/activating)--some have also posted that they can't use Crysta either because SE isn't offering it to their region. So, there are some users getting shut out from paying now, and they've paid for years with the 3DS option.

The point is, when asked about this issue early on, we were told we could still use our 3DS cards--implying we would still get the direct-pay option like the JP have been able to keep (as well as getting more payment options). If you want to have automatic payments now, you HAVE to switch to C&B. If for some reason that doesn't work for you (either literally or figuratively)--you're SOL for an automatic payment option.

Still no word from SE on non-JP regions loosing the direct 3DS option...nor any indication they are looking into extending it either.

[Vivik]

i really don't see the big deal. it's a little inconvenient to switch your info over to click and buy, but it only takes a few minutes, and SE just wants to have both of their MMOs paid through the same method. i haven't had a single issue with click and buy and i've had an account since 14 came out. totally not worth quitting over.

Why is it that every five posts is the same dribble. It's not hard to go back and read a few pages. You would realize that some people can't use either option.

[Panthera]

Why is it that every five posts is the same dribble. It's not hard to go back and read a few pages. You would realize that some people can't use either option.
And some don't want to.

[Ashael]

i really don't see the big deal. it's a little inconvenient to switch your info over to click and buy, but it only takes a few minutes, and SE just wants to have both of their MMOs paid through the same method. i haven't had a single issue with click and buy and i've had an account since 14 came out. totally not worth quitting over.
Have you read anything above your post? Any company that requests a copy of your passport or driver's license to set up an autopay for an online game is not to be trusted. Any company that charges random charges to your account when you only want to pay your FFXI fee is not to be trusted. I'm glad you've had no problems, but do you actually look at your banking statements each month and notice the additional fees you're paying, for the same game?

[Arourie]

boy theres a lot of stuff flying around in here. just an fyi ppl 1. POL is a third party billin system 2 i have used clickand buy with my bank debitcard for the past year with no issue, there was a random verification amt to verify the card when i first set it up but no real charge. clickandbuy is a secure pay site just like POL,PayPal ect. but if you're tired of the game uess its see you again. and i do check my bank statement every month, also i was not asked any question that SE and pol didn't already have and i was not asked for birth certificate or other nonsense.

[RAIST]

Actually, POL isn't third party--it is SE's server, as in... the one you log into to play the game.

And the "stuff" that is "flying around" is real-life accounts of problems people have had with setting up/using C&B. If you didn't have problems, then great--it worked for you. You could take the same stance with SE's old billing method through the POL server--it worked for you, so there are no problems with it even though there is a long history of issues with it, right?

Simple fact remains....in addition to new payment options, the JP region gets to maintain the same billing practice directly through SE's server as they have in the past (a la POL billing), while everyone else is being forced off to another system that for some SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK for various reasons. In some cases currently paying customers are being denied any means to pay since NEITHER of the new options work for them. The simplest way to fix the CC billing option for those players is to BRING BACK the existing directpay 3DS method that they've extended ONLY to the JP region.

They've shown they are capable of doing it (reference the JP transfer process), they have the agreements to accept NA/EU credit cards already (reference their online store), it's a web-based solution that is easily ported into web-apps (reference any company that provides the solution)--the CC processor does the core work for you, you just plug in your site/account specific details into their scripts. SE CAN do it... for reasons unknown to the general public, they have CHOSEN not to do it.

[Vivik]

boy theres a lot of stuff flying around in here. just an fyi ppl 1. POL is a third party billin system 2 i have used clickand buy with my bank debitcard for the past year with no issue, there was a random verification amt to verify the card when i first set it up but no real charge. clickandbuy is a secure pay site just like POL,PayPal ect. but if you're tired of the game uess its see you again. and i do check my bank statement every month, also i was not asked any question that SE and pol didn't already have and i was not asked for birth certificate or other nonsense.

It only took three post this time lol...

[Panthera]

Why is it that every five posts is the same dribble. It's not hard to go back and read a few pages. You would realize that some people can't use either option.

It's going on almost 1000 replies of the same thing. Come on guys, a few more posts, we're almost there, we can do it!

But seriously, I'm still playing--for now. I'm still investing my time and energy into this hoping that this is going to be resolved.

I'm hoping that whatever changes they're going to make are going to happen this week. That would still give people 2 weeks to get switched over to whatever is deemed more acceptabe.

@ Community Reps Could we see some kind of input from SE this week? We've been kept in the dark for some time now. People are just going to get more anxious the closer we get to "D-Day" or "X-Day" or whatever we're calling this. Could we know what kind of changes are going to me made? Just letting us know what's going to happen will put out some fires. Even if the solution is unsatisfactory, it will put an end to the issue. No more duplicate threads, no more duplicate posts, and we can get back to gaming, or moving on to other pursuits.

[Nianny]

Woah, almost 1000 replies in this thread... 5 to go.


Edit: Panthera beat me to it. :(

[Joslyn]

I hate to say it but they are not going to change the way we pay here in the states or any other country, japan will be the only place that gets to keep the old way and were stuck with the C&B or crysta way of paying.

[Muse]

I hate to say it but they are not going to change the way we pay here in the states or any other country, japan will be the only place that gets to keep the old way and were stuck with the C&B or crysta way of paying.

I agree 100%... SE hasn't replied to us because they won't change it.

They should at least give us the option, or being able to buy crysta in exact amounts. (Yes this has been said a ton now.)

The devs however have replied to us in the past so... Maybe it's just a matter of time, and people actually quitting before we get another reply.


Edit: Post number: 999

[Joslyn]

I agree 100%... SE hasn't replied to us because they won't change it.

They should at least give us the option, or being able to buy crysta in exact amounts. (Yes this has been said a ton now.)



Almost at 1000! Woot!

There Ya go :)