Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[malf]

To those wanabee smart, please stop trying to convince your point of view is the best and ppl saying they'll quit are simply whinner who should have whatever quit.

My playtime : 1052 days. Started playing august 2007. 11 jobs (8 leveled up before abyssea exists, 1051 merits points). I'm not an hardcore gamer living for ffxi, but only a player who spent days behind ffxi doing nothing, bazaaring, questing, farming, skilling up, doing HLS events, exping.

I'm not addicted as you spending hours to try to give money to SE. If I can't pay easily, I guess I will play now as I'm playing eve online buying credit on demand = nearly never. Because making the choice to pay , and doing almost nothing productive in ffxi, will give me the opportunity to try to do something else more productive.

btw i will not answer to flame discussion about my point of view with narrow minded I want always to have the last word, will not take time for this. You even didn't understand that living with other people means other people CAN have a different point of view, and it's a basic well known rule.

[Vivik]

For those thinking there is no fee here it is right from Click and Scam's website.

Failed Payment Fee: This fee is payable where a payment that We have requested
from Your selected payment method has failed for any reason (other than due to Our fault).

UK users: 25 GBP

EU users: 15.00 EUR

US users: Free

So yeah for EU and UK you will get charged a fee if your account does not have the funds in it at the time of the charge. You can say "Well make sure you have money in your account then" but hey, shit happens. SE would just cut off the game. Now you will get cut off and charged a fine. Thanks but no thanks.

[Kraggy]

Hello again, Warhammer Online
Well, if you think that's a playable game .. LOL?

[Kraggy]

For those thinking there is no fee here it is right from Click and Scam's website.

Failed Payment Fee: This fee is payable where a payment that We have requested
from Your selected payment method has failed for any reason (other than due to Our fault).

UK users: 25 GBP

EU users: 15.00 EUR

US users: Free

So yeah for EU and UK you will get charged a fee if your account does not have the funds in it at the time of the charge. You can say "Well make sure you have money in your account then" but hey, shit happens. SE would just cut off the game. Now you will get cut off and charged a fine. Thanks but no thanks.
Actually, this can happen due to your bank flagging the transaction for a "routine security check", I've had several of those over the years with various credit cards.

[Revanchist]

hmm as i know SE , they neither will be shocked nor change the payment system, they'll just merge some servers :x

Which would be a bad move imo for SE. Just from my own observations here, SE's only getting revenue from FFXI subscriptions, with the odd increase from producing/distributing other games etc. FFXIII, while a financial success initially hasn't grabbed a lot of people's interest like SE was probably hoping (I base that assumption from my own observations at numerous game stores I've passed where the price of FFXIII plummeted from $99AUSD to $30AUSD (though one store had about 2 dozen copies for sale for $10AUSD)). I often wished someone would take a count of how many copies were returned and the reason as to why, as I know that EB Games does ask for a reason as to why it was returned.

FFXIV has been nothing but a financial sinkhole for SE since it's release, having it's first month trial period extended for a month.. then another month... and then another month, before SE released a letter of apology to their customers for XIV and made it Free To Play until it's fixed. Now, 10 months later, there's still been nothing done to fix XIV (apart from some tweaking here and there, and the removal of that damn exp/rest system)... and then on May 25th, Square Enix plans to reveal a new MMO during its current fiscal year (ending March 31, 2012). (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/25/square-enix-to-reveal-new-mmo-by-april-2012/)

Instead of throwing money into a new project, one wonders WHY they didn't use that money to fix XIV and work on the PS3 version.

Regarding the payment system... The original system (via Direct Debit) worked well, and to get rid of it for this refugee from XIV (because that's what it is imo) at first made me angry like a lot of others I suspect. Do I think SE will change it? Probably not... but then again, XIV's fans kicked up a storm which finally made SE stop and look at XIV and effect the recent changes to it. So there's a slim possibility that SE MAY listen to the fans again... especially if we're paying their salaries.


The question is if they are aware that their declining FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV etc. sales are because people lost faith in the company and are actively boycotting them. Doing this isn't helping their future titles at all, and will in the end let them steal some 5 dollars per person, while they'll end up selling fewer games for 30 dollars.

I've never before seen a company beeline for bankruptcy like SE tend to do.

Unfortunately, you'll still get some Final Fanatics (Hardcore, cult like fans who worship SE) who think that SE does not wrong, and will vehemently defend SE to the death. However, you are correct about the decline in sales...

[Octaviane]

That's simply because alot of people don't know about it yet. When everyone is forced to do the transfer, then SE will get the second round of outrage.

Yup, that too. :)

[Alukat]

To those wanabee smart like korpg rosina, ilax, please stop trying to convince your point of view is the best and ppl saying they'll quit are simply whinner who should have whatever quit.

My playtime : 1052 days. Started playing august 2007. 11 jobs (8 leveled up before abyssea exists, 1051 merits points). I'm not an hardcore gamer living for ffxi, but only a player who spent days behind ffxi doing nothing, bazaaring, questing, farming, skilling up, doing HLS events, exping.

I'm not addicted as you spending hours to try to give money to SE. If I can't pay easily, I guess I will play now as I'm playing eve online buying credit on demand = nearly never. Because making the choice to pay , and doing almost nothing productive in ffxi, will give me the opportunity to try to do something else more productive.

btw i will not answer to flame discussion about my point of view with narrow minded I want always to have the last word, will not take time for this. You even didn't understand that living with other people means other people CAN have a different point of view, and it's a basic well known rule.

i agree with you.
i played ff1-11 but i haven't liked the new games (12+) and i love ff7 / 8 / 10 / 10-2 and especially 11.
I started to play in august 2006 (or was it 2005, can't excactly remember), i have 3 90's with many augmented sky stuff and a couple +2 af3's and also a mandau 90.
abyssea was a flop in my eyes, but i could live with it (still had the option to do dynamis and the stuff i like), but this new payment method is totally inacceptable for me and i have no alternative, so i have to stop playing.

if they give me an acceptable option (directly pay them and not via 3rd party) then i come back, if not age of canon & hellgate:global are free2play atm and diablo iii should be released soon too, no need to bother myself with this shit.

[Octaviane]

many german ppl are posting at the english forum, as i do ;)
however i talked to some immediately after I found out that i have to use a 3rd party to continue playing ffxi.
some of them didn't checked the reps on the 3rd partys or even didn't care and they simply signed in.
sadly many german ppl are trained to accept everything blindly, i'm not proud on my country :(

Nooooo! Germany is a lovely country, lovely people! Spent 2 years there :)

[Alukat]

Nooooo! Germany is a lovely country, lovely people! Spent 2 years there :)

i obviously just met the wrong people here, i have been here umm all my life xD

[Alukat]

The question is if they are aware that their declining FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV etc. sales are because people lost faith in the company and are actively boycotting them. Doing this isn't helping their future titles at all, and will in the end let them steal some 5 dollars per person, while they'll end up selling fewer games for 30 dollars.

I've never before seen a company beeline for bankruptcy like SE tend to do.

yeah. and before they develop more new titles Xiii-2 , xv or whatever.
they should consider a remake of vii / viii & ix, as far as know they sold very well and were very popular.

playing ffvii right now and in my opinion the game has mmporg potencial, the materia system would allow total character customisation , like with steal,hp+,mp+, spells and many other things setable with it, it would need some adjustments at the world/plot, needs EG, gearing and new graphic of course, but the game is there and i think a remake would be cheaper as developing a complete new game (since u don't have to create a plot, battle/gear-system and a couple other things).

just my 2cents.

Edit: and of course, there has to be an option to pay SE directly ;)

[Arioche]

Well, if you think that's a playable game .. LOL?

Lol, it barely is. Which is what's so sad about this situation. Compared to FF its utter garbage, but even they have the common sense to allow players to pay them directly. Now that is pathetic on Squares part.

[Runespider]

A lot of people are waiting to see what happens, can a rep give us something as to whether Square are even considering changing this? If they are just gonna ignore this and make us stick with it (as I'm guessing) then people can decide what they want to do easier...waiting around hoping isn't helping.

The options here are pretty terrible but the most obnoxious part is that JPs get to pick exact amounts of crysta and can pay direct with CC still, the truth is almost everyone that plays FFXI right now is ignorant about these changes and just how big an effect they will have on them.

[Bassclef]

I'm not all that happy about the changes, but I believe the term that hasn't been said yet is "Silent Majority". Sure, there's plenty of outcry in all outlets (official forums, unofficial forums, in-game, etc.), but when you think about it... well, I don't know where I was going with this. The "silent majority" just seemed to fit.

Sure, those Ultimate Play cards are one way, but I would probably just give up in the end and just stop paying; even with 50 Crysta left over. My bank is the type that will freeze my card after every transaction with ClickandBuy. I didn't know what I got myself into when I set up the payment stuff for XIV.

[Dauntless]

I'm not all that happy about the changes, but I believe the term that hasn't been said yet is "Silent Majority". Sure, there's plenty of outcry in all outlets (official forums, unofficial forums, in-game, etc.), but when you think about it... well, I don't know where I was going with this. The "silent majority" just seemed to fit.

Sure, those Ultimate Play cards are one way, but I would probably just give up in the end and just stop paying; even with 50 Crysta left over. My bank is the type that will freeze my card after every transaction with ClickandBuy. I didn't know what I got myself into when I set up the payment stuff for XIV.

As was said earlier, the "silent majority" is mainly comprised of people who don't know about the changes yet. When August 31st (I think, don't quote me on the exact date) rolls around and people suddenly have to start buying crysta or using C&B, then that's when the major backlash will begin.

[Bassclef]

As was said earlier, the "silent majority" is mainly comprised of people who don't know about the changes yet. When August 31st (I think, don't quote me on the exact date) rolls around and people suddenly have to start buying crysta or using C&B, then that's when the major backlash will begin.

Aye, I told my LS mates that I was going to hold out until then. Some relented and went the Ultimate Card way and some tried to go the ClickandBuy way, but got the error that said to try again until after this payment cycle was done.

[Dauntless]

Aye, I told my LS mates that I was going to hold out until then. Some relented and went the Ultimate Card way and some tried to go the ClickandBuy way, but got the error that said to try again until after this payment cycle was done.

Everyone I told quit.

I suppose it varies person to person.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Like many say, this is unacceptible, I dont mind say the Crista system for payment. But needing to go through so many hurtles to allow me to pay is like asking me to fight a hydra with a paperclip every morning to make a cup of coffee. Its something that is likely difficult for both SE and ourselfs, and like many have stated, unless i can find a way that works within my means of payment, i will be stuck with no way to do such and my adventures in vana'diel will come to an end. I can understand that there are at times issues that may arise that force things like inability to offer service, or a payment system having to collapse, but forcing people to go out of their way, sign up for multiple other services, and then MAYBE be able to access their intended service is just unfair. Add my name to the petition or show me where to sign it. Because this is just a terrible change and most people dont want this.

To you square-enix. Do not opress your consumers, or soon you will all be running on treadmills just to power your offices.

[Bassclef]

Everyone I told quit.

I suppose it varies person to person.

Yeah, I've been around since 2003 NA launch. I'm surprised I'm not more attached to the game. I guess I had a feeling something like this would happen. I half-joked that once I got Masamune I would quit back in... April (still working on the lvl 85 version). My small LS is close nit and I guess the others just want to hold on to finish getting upgraded Empyrean gear.

[Aver]

Like many say, this is unacceptible, I dont mind say the Crista system for payment. But needing to go through so many hurtles to allow me to pay is like asking me to fight a hydra with a paperclip every morning to make a cup of coffee. Its something that is likely difficult for both SE and ourselfs, and like many have stated, unless i can find a way that works within my means of payment, i will be stuck with no way to do such and my adventures in vana'diel will come to an end. I can understand that there are at times issues that may arise that force things like inability to offer service, or a payment system having to collapse, but forcing people to go out of their way, sign up for multiple other services, and then MAYBE be able to access their intended service is just unfair. Add my name to the petition or show me where to sign it. Because this is just a terrible change and most people dont want this.

To you square-enix. Do not opress your consumers, or soon you will all be running on treadmills just to power your offices.

That sounds like the most epic cup of coffee ever. Though if early morning coffee rage is anything to go by, it'd be a short fight.

[Lyrminas]

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/d/7/d7bde4f3bd4e62372e8200b34d00df96.jpg

That's all I got to say.

[Arioche]

Square is like one of those annoying vending machines that keeps spitting out your dollar. All you want is that damn bag of chips...

[Lyrminas]

in this case, they take your money too.

[Vivik]

Square is like one of those annoying vending machines that keeps spitting out your dollar. All you want is that damn bag of chips...

More like the annoying vending machine that takes your money and does not give you your change back.

[Rosina]

just to add
FFXIV player tried this. It didn't work. Sorry. :(

[Dauntless]

just to add
FFXIV player tried this. It didn't work. Sorry. :(

Yeah but who was actually disappointed that they couldn't play that travesty?

I love how much you want everyone to bend over and take everything SE is screwing us with like you are. Really, it's just awesome.

[Malacite]

Corporate Sheep, what do you expect?

Virtually no respect for others financial situations.

[Unaisis]

50 some pages with 1-3 posts per page that are FOR the change.... and most times its the same people....
the line between majority and minority can still change. There are Alot of people that just don't realize whats going on atm. i logged on last night and asked a few friends/random people, and they had no idea that they were changing the payment method with the account transfer.

[Revanchist]

just to add
FFXIV player tried this. It didn't work. Sorry. :(

... and yet, wasn't it due to the fans complaining about XIV, that SE eventually did something about it? (For example, removal of the exp resting system. Sadly I have no proof of this, only third hand info from my LS mates and friends.)

Also, this isn't affecting you, as you already stated you're paying via the Crysta option. For players like myself, who live in a country where Crysta isn't legally accepted as a payment option and the Ultimate game cards aren't available, SE has more or less kicked us in our privates and is laughing at us as we squirm on the ground. Our only hope is that SE sees the validity in expansion of the option to allow those who can't use the cards or crysta, to pay via direct debit as we have before (and how the JP can still do).

[Oddwaffle]

I think the silent majority is waiting for SE respond which probably won't happen until the the end of August when their face turn white and start pointing fingers after looking at the monthly subscription figures.

[malf]

I think the silent majority is waiting for SE respond which probably won't happen until the the end of August when their face turn white and start pointing fingers after looking at the monthly subscription figures.

Yeah finger pointing, the famous incompetent rulez. But let's wait for the figure first ...

[Selzak]

I think the silent majority is waiting for SE respond which probably won't happen until the the end of August when their face turn white and start pointing fingers after looking at the monthly subscription figures.
This is exactly what's going to happen. Unfortunately, for a game this late in its life, it's going to be a huge blow initially and the subtle "our bad...please come back" announcement that they'll make which gives us another payment option will only go so far. I know they won't take this seriously until that happens, so I know FFXI is about to take a huge hit. Hopefully the Vita port breathes some life into it. Portable FFXI would be incredible(ly addicting), and by then I think they'll have amended these payment options.

[RAIST]

As for the minority/majority question:

As has been stated countless times now--SE is perfectly capable of extending this option to all regions. They still have all the necessary resources to do it--they have simply CHOSEN not to.

Regionally speaking, 1/3 of the playerbase is completely unaffected by this, as JP did NOT loose the current payment option....while 2/3 ARE LOOSING THEIR CURRENT PAYMENT OPTION.

I think that may very well put us in the majority, eh?

Whether you agree with using C&B or not is moot---the one simple fact remains that anyone not in the JP region has been singled out with this decision, with no justificatiion. And here is antoher fact--this decision is single handedly preventing current subscribers from continuing their subscription that otherwise would have no issue if they had also extended the direct pay option to them.

And... here is another reason NOT to use C&B. A snag posted on another forum. Catwho, a US player (1 state away from me, and uses the same bank I do) used C&B and got slapped with a fee from his bank because the new payment method is no longer using a US based bank and is being FORCED to go through an international vendor now:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=5#219


Well, just hit my first snag. My bank charged me an extra 60 cents for buying $20 worth of Crysta via Click and Buy, calling it an international transaction. I had no warning from Click and Buy or from SE that there would be the extra charge.

[xbobx]

Some US banks are paranoid. I deal with that sometimes at work. If we send a US vendor money In US$ from a Canadian bank they take weeks to cash and charge the vendor money. the reason we were told from banks is that they are worried that banks outside of the US are being used for terrorist activities. Yes you read that right. Some banks in the US won't even take money drawn on banks outside of the US. REally sad and stupid, obviously they never heard of international Commerce.
that is probably what is happening here, Wells Fargo is doing an extra check to make sure that Sub fee isn't funding terrorist and is charging the user a service charge for that extra check.
Sounds crazy but its actually true. Welcome to American the home of the paranoid and scared.

[Romanova]

Some US banks are paranoid. I deal with that sometimes at work. If we send a US vendor money In US$ from a Canadian bank they take weeks to cash and charge the vendor money. the reason we were told from banks is that they are worried that banks outside of the US are being used for terrorist activities. Yes you read that right. Some banks in the US won't even take money drawn on banks outside of the US. REally sad and stupid, obviously they never heard of international Commerce.
that is probably what is happening here, Wells Fargo is doing an extra check to make sure that Sub fee isn't funding terrorist and is charging the user a service charge for that extra check.
Sounds crazy but its actually true. Welcome to American the home of the paranoid and scared.

No matter the reason...if they won't let us use it they won't let us use it. Chase is the same, and blocks CnB. So who do we look to? blame the banks? or blame SE for knowing this was an issue one year ago and still did nothing to change it.

I'm not about to run my credit to open up a new CC just to play FF (I am using crysta yes, but that isn't exactly a good solution either).

[RAIST]

just to add
FFXIV player tried this. It didn't work. Sorry. :(

FFXIV also didn't go pay-to-play either, so there was no financial leverage for the customers to use against them. In the case of FFXI, they will get hit below the belt when subscriptions suddenly die off because they have rendered a large number of people unable or unwilling to pay via risky/wasteful methods.

[Bagel]

This is terrible. Why is SE making it harder to give them money? Will likely not be playing after the change-over.

[Twille]

I hope FFXI loses massive amounts of players over this. SE deserves it.
There is no good reason at all to force me into opening an account with a 3rd party that i don't trust, in order to pay for a game i've already been paying for w/o issue for 8 years or more.
Absolutely ridiculous.

[mistmonster]

I was just about to say the silence from SE was deafening, but alas there might be hope

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090#post158090

Just hope it comes in time!

[RAIST]

heheh... poor Matt... the sacrificial lamb.... he's gonna get hammered now if SE doesn't feed us more info soon. But thanks for the heads up bro. I feel for the guys at SE when this really ramps up. I remember when the Intel and java rounding errors were discovered and we got bombarded with support tickets. It was an easay exception to catch and correct and we had the fix out right away--many people didn't even know they were already patched by the time they heard about it, but the mass hysteria was uncontainable at that point. Eventually had to split off our internal support ticket system to a seperate server because of it.

All I can say is good luck guys. There is a "simple" fix for the problem...just hope it doesn't take to0 long for SE to realize the significance of the "JP only gets 3DS" debaucle and roll it out to all the regions.

[Unaisis]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090#post158090


i knew SE wouldn't let us <our money> go ^.^ lol i'l wait for their new payment methods~

[Neika]

I'm all for them adding new payment options to give people more choices, but they shouldn't also be taking away the one payment method we've been using for the last almost 10 years that people have been used to and that people are still ok with using (i've never had an issue with PoL billing my card, even during the july billing screw up). I would be "ok" with using crysta, except that i can't buy the ultimate game cards here for it, and i'm not comfortable buying it online. And I'm sure as hell not using clickandbuy...I live in Canada and i'm not about to start paying a 5.9% convertion fee now that I'm actually paying less per month since the Canadian dollar is higher than the US dollar.

[Pharaun]

I'm still waiting for one of the community reps to actually post in here and give us some real feedback instead of posting in a locked sticky.

[Octaviane]

At least they posted something, good job everyone, they took note. :) We'll have to wait see what the result is. In the meantime, there is gonna be a Registration Server Maintenance, July 31st, the wording kinda got to me a bit.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12249-NA-Registration-Server-Maintenance-(Jul.-31)

[xbobx]

they do that maint every month.

[RAIST]

Think Octaviane meant to grab this link:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090


Greetings all,

We wanted to take a moment to let you know that we are aware of the comments and discussions taking place regarding the new payment procedures not only on the official forum, but on the community sites, as well.

While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we do want to inform you that improving the payment processing options are still a part of an ongoing process. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.

[Twille]

At least they've acknowledged the communities wariness and dislike of the proposed new system. I sincerely hope they find an alternative. If we're lucky, an alternative that doesn't include the involvement of some disreputable 3rd party.
It'd be ideal for SE to handle this all in-house. Seems they're trying to build a platform from which they can link multiple MMOs or other games. (which was the idea behind PoL....don't see how it'll work now when it didn't before).

[Niyariko]

If SE don't wanna support the CC payment for NA and EU for their SE account, they can at least let us buy Crysta with CC directly from their own Square Enix online shop (http://www.square-enix-shop.com/). Then at least we don't need to use ultimatepay, paypal nor click&buy. But still, they will need an auto payment feature.

SE, you have set up an online store, utilize it!!
Just a thought ...

[Malacite]

Yeah poor Matt...

I think we deserve a public apology for this similar to the FFXIV one when they introduced Yoshi P. Especially for folks like myself who've basically been playing since NA launch, paid full price for every expansion pack, bought all the add-ons etc and have enjoyed the game for years all the while having no issues with the billing.

You do not give your valued customers a back-handed slap like this SE. The sheer disrespect they've shown us by shafting 2/3 of the playerbase while giving blatant preferential treatment to the JP, is deplorable and quite frankly you all should be ashamed of yourselves.

I really don't think this is asking for too much here, it's the least we deserve. I don't want any fancy in-game "we're sorry" tokens, just a formal, legitimate apology for this unwarranted and sudden transgression.

Maybe it's just the nerd rage over Capcom getting me on edge, but I really don't care to be treated like dirt by another beloved JP company to whom I've been a loyal customer for years.

[RAIST]

Some more stories from alla with people having issues:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=5#226

My Chase account shows the Click and Buy verification charges as coming from this source: CLICKANDBUY INTERNATION LONDON CARD

I wasn't charged an international fee. It's already looking like a pain in the ass, though.

To "verify" the card they charge 2 amounts over $1 and ask for you to input how many cents over the dollar the charges were. Simple enough. It totals to $2.40. So to refund that to me they didn't credit the money back to my card. No, they just gave me $2.40 to my ClickandBuy account balance. Not where I wanted my money to go.

Oh, and what's this? Another charge for $2.40 (not in 2 $1+ charges) from them to my Chase account. Still pending. So far the free verification is costing me $4.80 until the previous $2.40 charge is transferred from my ClickandBuy account back to my Chase account, and the other $2.40 charge is cancelled (hopefully) or the same thing happens forcing me to have them transfer it back.

note that this more or less funding their C&B account, that process normally incurs the 3.9% fee everyone was initially concerned about that SE dispelled. Hopefully this ammount would be used as a partial payment towards the first billing, resulting in them just charging the card directly with no fee. Would be really bizaare if the systme first funded the account from the card to make the balance $12.95 first (charging the 3.9% fee in the process), then paying the bill. Not likely ( at least I hope)--but imagine the crapstorm that would create if it happened?



http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=5#230

I just had a personal experience with Click and buy.

I had setup a Click and Buy account when I started playing FFXIV. I've not played that game now for months so I finally cancelled my service with SE. I then tried to login to my click and buy account in order to block payments from that side.

On their account login, I provided my user ID and my password and was then surprised when it asked for my date of birth. I've never seen any login use a date of birth as effectively a second layer password. In general, I never provide my real date of birth to any service on the internet as it is not relevant to any commercial transaction.

Through email and phone support (over an hour on hold before getting a person), they informed me that in order to access my account, they needed me to photocopy either my passport or my driver's license, attach it to an email and send it to them as Proof of my birthdate for them to reset my account. I had sent them emails from the email account on record. I gave the agent the correct answer to my regular security question. I was even willing to verify the credit card number on the account over the phone. Nothing doing. Send copies of critical ID or GTFO.


I'm definitely not sending copies of critical identification to another country using unsecured email over the internet. On the phone, the agent also said that this same process was necessary if I needed to get any money back from Click and Buy (such as for an unauthorized charge being made to my account).

I've cancelled my click and buy account rather than send the info.

I'm going to think about this for a couple of weeks. The agent did confirm that I could, if I wished, create another account after my current one is cancelled. I could even still give them a bogus birthdate - I just need to record what I entered so I can use it as a password in their screwy system. I'm not sure it's worth it.

I'm betting that cancelling my existing account with C&B could be terminal wrt my SE account. I'm betting it's not possible now to link that to different, new C&B account now.

edit: Just noticed the post above me. Maybe I can link it to a different C&B account. I'm not sure I want to bother though.

This is just more eveidence of why people are so frustrated with this change. If they had just followed through with what we were expecting to happen (and in fact the did do for the JP) and kept our direct pay via MC/Visa in the first place...there would be no problems. People currently paying would still be paying and have a painless transfer. People who couldn't get on with the current system would now have additional options via C&B, Paypal/Ultimatepay/Crysta, and UGC card/Crysta. They would NOT be potentially loosing paying customers, AND pick up customers currently locked out of the system. Win-Win.

Let's hope SE see's the light before it's too late....


Merlin: Looking at the cake is like looking at the future, until you've tasted it what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late.
[Arthur takes a bite]
Merlin: Too late

Excalibur (1981)

[RAIST]

umm.... soo... what does any of that epeen crap have to do with the issues of how to pay for your account?

Please, get back on topic guys.

[Ilax]

umm.... soo... what does any of that epeen crap have to do with the issues of how to pay for your account?

Please, get back on topic guys.


I have to agree there, have nothing to do with it.

Should give time to SE, i am pretty sure they are worry about the current situation, the only part that i can see they did not figured out is the part that most of Bank around here flag C&B as bad trust and nuke credit card, right there is a major problem. But that don't mean to /panic and rage quit the game, give some time to SE to find out a solution.

I already said it in many post, would not be that hard for SE to implement PayPal as main payment system, and pretty sure everyone would be happy about that change.

[Malamasala]

Yeah poor Matt...

I think we deserve a public apology for this similar to the FFXIV one when they introduced Yoshi P. Especially for folks like myself who've basically been playing since NA launch, paid full price for every expansion pack, bought all the add-ons etc and have enjoyed the game for years all the while having no issues with the billing.


I think poetic justice would be that nobody has to pay for FFXI until they fixed the payment methods from August and forward until it is fixed. That way SE can show their good will towards the customers, and also get highest prio on solving the issue instead of potentially just letting it drag out a few years since it doesn't hurt them financially (in fact it gives them more money)

[Octaviane]

Think Octaviane meant to grab this link:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ?p=158090&viewfull=1#post158090

ya thanks :)

[Niyariko]

...But that don't mean to /panic and rage quit the game...would not be that hard for SE to implement PayPal as main payment system, and pretty sure everyone would be happy about that change.

How can one not quit game if they could not continue to pay with both crysta or clickandbuy!? For some regions, Ultimatepay are not available locally, and ClickandBuy are blocking may regions, even IF they want to use it, they are not allow to.

I know for new players, these options might be better for them, since they do not required a 3D secure CreditCard, but what about for their existing customers!? whats wrong with directly paying SE as we have all been doing it for 9 years!

i have no problem they are adding crysta and clickandbuy, but they will also need to include direct to SE auto payment with CC, this is what we all familiar with.

I bet the JP will also go in rage if SE take away their direct payment and forcing them to rely on clickandbuy for that option. People might literally burn their office.

I might actually start FFXIV again IF SE offers direct payment:p

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I like how half the previous page is missing for off topic/inflamitory remarks. lol

[RAIST]

hehe... yeah. Proof positive they are watching us. Gotta be on our best behavior.... right? :)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

hehe... yeah. Proof positive they are watching us. Gotta be on our best behavior.... right? :)People keep wondering where the mod responce is, but they seem to be failing to notice how many posts have been removed already. Not just that last page.

[Mordanthos]

If you cant afford the extra dollars to get more crysta than is required to play..then maybe you should not play MMO's. Not only that. If you have to buy more crysta than whats required, then after like....5-10 buys ull have enough crysta without having to buy and it will even out in the end anyways.

[RAIST]

hehe...someone redited that Tom Cruise interview video to apply it to our current situation. Kinda cheezy, but it helps drive the point home for SE. Some of you may appreciate it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC3TVi2af1k

[Revanchist]

If you cant afford the extra dollars to get more crysta than is required to play..then maybe you should not play MMO's. Not only that. If you have to buy more crysta than whats required, then after like....5-10 buys ull have enough crysta without having to buy and it will even out in the end anyways.

It's not just about the crysta that people are complaining about. It's the fact that we're forced into this, and that some of us can't even access either of the options being presented due A: Cysta isn't legally accepted as a viable payment option in some countries; B: The game cards aren't available for purchase in some countries either and C: As the Japanese players have access to not just those two options, but can also pay via direct debit which we've all been doing for the past 9 years or so.

It's understandable that people are angry/outraged over this (particularly if you happen to live in a country where the options presented by SE can not be used (I live in Australia, and I don't have access to those options)) and want to know what SE's plan is to rectify this situation. As has been explained earlier in this thread by RAIST (sorry for referring to your posts all the time, but you have raised a valid and viable option which may've been overlooked by SE), there is the groundwork for a Direct Debit payment option, just needs to be expanded to allow gamers in the rest of the world to use.

[RAIST]

hehe... you honor me Revan. Hey, we all riding in this handbasket towards Hell's Gate together it seems. I like it when we can use eachother's posts to back up points...shows we are trying to work together as a community to accomplish change.

Wow... what a concept... when did I get all happy unicorn, pretty rainbows, and fluffy bunnies.... gotta get back into cynic mode before I start farting flowers.

Anywho....for Mordanthos:
(gotta give credit to Tsukino for this tidbit of information as a post in another thread prompted me to look it up)

http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/charge.html

The following payment methods can be selected for settling service fees in the Square Enix Account Management System.

Square Enix CrystaYou can pay for options by adding Crysta to your account and using your Crysta balance to pay service fees. To use Crysta, select it on the payment method selection screen.
*Crysta cannot be used as a payment method if you do not have enough in your account.
*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

Credit Card, Debit Card and ClickandBuy accountIn addition to Crysta, you can pay for some services with a credit card, debit card or use other options via ClickandBuy account.
ClickandBuy is an account-based billing system provided by ClickandBuy International Limited. An account can be acquired for free and used to add options and automatically pay service fees per service period. To use credit cards or debit cards as your payment method, select "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" from the payment method selection screen.
*It is possible to register multiple credit cards and debit cards to a single ClickandBuy account.

For information on service fees, please refer to the service's website.

Depending on your country of residence, Square Enix Crysta may not be available. If you live in such a location, please use "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" to settle your service fees.
*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.
Adding Crysta is simple!

and therein lies the rub.... SE is not providing Crysta as a funding option in some regions, C&B is not able to process payments for some regions (or through some financial institutions). We've already discovered one regions completely blocked from both--in and around Australia.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Not really the best solution, but perhaps if they really want to utilize 3rd party billing methods, they could work out a deal with valve, utilizing steam as a release platform for the game was a great way to get the game into the hands of players, and as that allows for direct and secure CC use, it may be an option. Assuming they can do that from an infrastructure standpoint and assuming steam accepts/is offered globally in all nations. Just a thought that popped in my head.

[Malamasala]

SE is not providing Crysta as a funding option in some regions

I think it is the opposite. Some regions probably do not allow "fake currency". I wish no regions did, since the concept is just so silly. Pay 10 dollars, get 2000 pony points. These lets your buy things like horse toothpaste, grass and other useful horse items!

[Octaviane]

Dear SE,

Please accept this I.O.U in lieu of payment for the next however long until you can figure out this Massively Monstrous Overwhelmingly Ridiculous Payment Gaffe.

Thank you and I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. For further assistance in this matter please visit I.O.U. com

The Customer

[Asiren]

I recently finished transferring my POL account to my SE account. While I was able to do it, I am not very happy about it. This is the feedback I sent to Square-Enix in their Support Center:


Dear Square-Enix,

I recently transferred my POL account to my SE account. I am disappointed to find that at least two of question and answer pairs in this forum thread are somewhat false:

Square Enix Account Transfer FAQ
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ

I tried creating a ClickandBuy account with a credit card that does not have 3-D Secure. I was disappointed to find out that I couldn't create a ClickandBuy account without a 3-D Secure credit card; I was asked to provide a 3-D Secure credit card in order to create one. Given ClickandBuy's reputation, I do not feel comfortable giving them access to my bank account.

Thus, I went on to try to buy Crysta using Paypal via PlaySpan. I was disappointed yet again that I was forced to pay via instant transfer (from my bank account) via my Paypal account. I could not change my payment method to a credit card; the Paypal payment page would not let me do this.

I was under the impression that I would be able to use my credit card which does not have 3-D Secure on it. Sadly, it looks like the only way I would be able to use my credit card would be to buy UlimatePay gamer cards from retail stores.

I would suggest that you avoid posting false statements in your FAQ. Doing so makes you look bad and frustrates your customers.

Let me emphasize what has really annoyed me:

You cannot create a ClickandBuy account without a 3-D Secure credit card! (Unless you're willing to give them your bank account. No thanks!)

You cannot buy Crysta via Paypal without using the bank account attached to your Paypal account! PlaySpan insists on payment by bank account ONLY.

If you were able to buy Crysta online with a non-3-D Secure credit card, good for you. However, I was not able to do this, and I'm sure this has happened to plenty of other players as well.

Edit: Before this gets asked, yes I tried changing my payment method while I was on the Paypal website. I couldn't do it. Paypal would not let me switch to credit card, no matter how many times I clicked the link to "Change payment method." It would simply reload the payment page again.

So if you were able to change your payment method on Paypal's website, that's great for you! I wish I could do it... :(

[RAIST]

hmmm.. that is odd indeed about the Paypal funding source. I wonder if you could create an account with PlaySpan and use your card through them, than transfer the points to SE for crysta. Kind of a round-about way of doing it...but if it works would save you from having to buy cards locally and paying local taxes.

<Just an idea, haven't transferred yet myself...holding out for SE to extend the JP's directpay option so I can continue using my credit card that has 3DS support, if they don't add it my account will just die off in August>

[Asiren]

hmmm.. that is odd indeed about the Paypal funding source. I wonder if you could create an account with PlaySpan and use your card through them, than transfer the points to SE for crysta. Kind of a round-about way of doing it...but if it works would save you from having to buy cards locally and paying local taxes.

<Just an idea, haven't transferred yet myself...holding out for SE to extend the JP's directpay option so I can continue using my credit card that has 3DS support, if they don't add it my account will just die off in August>

It could be a security issue from Paypal's side for some reason. Or a requirement from PlaySpan. I'm trying to avoid creating new accounts because I already have Paypal and I don't really play any other online games at the moment. The only reason I'd create a PlaySpan account is to pay Crysta to SE. It seems like a waste of effort if I can just do it via Paypal. :/

[RAIST]

yeah...they really screwed the proverbial pooch with this boneheaded move. Really over-complicating such a simple process.

[RAIST]

May have stumbled on something about C&B. There might actually be a specific reason why some financial institutions are rejecting them, just haven't been able to get further details as it looks like the site I was in just hit a maintenance window while I was on it.

Click&Buy is stating they are authorised and regulated by the FSA UK:

ClickandBuy International Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom. (Register Number: 454127)
http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/help/pages/04505.html&bereich=surfer

So out of curiosity I went to pull up their reports on them, but can't get any real info on them just yet as it looks like they've started stopping some webapps for maintenance or something while I was browsing. This particular one went offline just after I pulled it up, but the first page from my search was still in my cached pages so I was able to grab at least their basic info:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/register/index.shtml
searched on firm registration number: 454127



Basic details for:
454127 - ClickandBuy International Limited

Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 01/07/2011
Tied Agent:
Undertakes Insurance Mediation:
Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:
Address: Lincoln House
137/143 Hammersmith Road
London
W14 0QL

Phone:
Fax:
Email:
Website:
44 020 7605 0670
44 020 7751 1848
No e-mail supplied
www.clickandbuy.com

Notices:
Other information: The firm now has an e-money record. Please check the e-money link for more information.

Clicked the e-money link and that's when pages started coming up as unavailable. Guess I hit it right when they were taking things down.

Interesting that their basic info states they are not authorised. Which is a little concerning as they are still claiming on their site that they are authorised.

When you go to the FSA's detail on status entries, it simply states

No longer authorised
A firm is no longer allowed to carry out certain types of business that we regulate.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Register/use/firm_status/index.shtml

Which makes me even more curious about just what they are no longer authorized to do, and why. Wish I could get at the reports to get more info.

[Rahyiyi]

I tried signing up for Click and Buy and my credit card flagged it for being an international transaction so then they sent me an email they needed full verification this is the information they requested.


Dear ,
Thank you for contacting ClickandBuy and for your message.
Please confirm your credit/debit card by filling out and signing the attached form.
Please send an email to service@us.clickandbuy.com with an attachment of the completed and signed for a scanned copy of a photo ID such as your passport or driver’s license and a copy of your recent credit/debit card statement.
Please note that we do not accept online statements for the verification of a payment method.
As soon as we have received the documents, we will confirm your payment method manually which offers increased spending limits and higher security for future purchases.


Please select answer or reply when responding to this email as opposed to sending a new email as this will aid us in resolving your issue with more efficiency.
Yours sincerely,
ClickandBuy Service Team

I AM NOT SENDING THEM A COPY OF MY PHOTO ID AND BANK STATEMENT TO PLAY FFXI!!

I think Square should look more closely at the companies they chose. I called them twice and both times they said they could not understand me and to send me an email. I called Square Enix support complaining about the problem he told me to just tell Click and Pay I want to cancel and to pay in Crysta -.-

[Pawkeshup]

Been here since 2004. Thanks for honoring my long-term contribution by flipping me the bird.

[RAIST]

I tried signing up for Click and Buy and my credit card flagged it for being an international transaction so then they sent me an email they needed full verification this is the information they requested.



I AM NOT SENDING THEM A COPY OF MY PHOTO ID AND BANK STATEMENT TO PLAY FFXI!!

I think Square should look more closely at the companies they chose. I called them twice and both times they said they could not understand me and to send me an email. I called Square Enix support complaining about the problem he told me to just tell Click and Pay I want to cancel and to pay in Crysta -.-

I'd be more concerned about them requesting you attach all that ID information ALONG with details on your bannk account through NORMAL EMAIL. Do those guys even KNOW anything about security???!!!!

[Revanchist]

That's another reason I'm wary of Clickandbuy... the amount of information they want from a person to set up a account. Even when I signed up for my bank account, didn't need as much information for that, as Clickandbuy want.

[Runespider]

That's another reason I'm wary of Clickandbuy... the amount of information they want from a person to set up a account. Even when I signed up for my bank account, didn't need as much information for that, as Clickandbuy want.

Sending all that information in such a non secure way is putting a lot of trust in the staff working at a company most of us don't even know much about. Who's to say they won't commit fraud with it, you can try trust Square did the proper checks but we all know they didn't....they just went with who gave them the cheapest deal to do their transactions for them.

[Nvr]

I am a little confused. I linked my account already and I have my credit card to be used for payment, however; I never had to create a ClickandBuy account... at least not that I am aware of. I went to the ClickandBuy site and tried to login using any screen name or pw I would have used, but was unable to log in. So, I am assuming I never made an account.
Also, in the FAQ about the transfer it says...

Q: Can credit cards without personal authentication services (such as 3-D secure) be used?

A: Cards without personal authentication services, such as 3-D secure, can make payments using ClickandBuy International Ltd. and Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.

3-D secure will be required only for cards that support and have been set up with it.

My card DOES have 3-D secure. I remember being required to set it up by SE (never heard people complain about that). So, I am assuming that nothing has changed at all for me, but I guess I will see after the 1st, when they try to bill me.

P.S.
Sorry if this was mentioned, there are like 50+ pages to this...

[Pawkeshup]

Nvr, what region is your game? Because JP region is allowed to directly use Credit Cards. It's NA and EU accounts that are required to select one of the other two options.

[Nvr]

I live in the U.S.

In the FAQ, it seems clear to me that ClickandBuy is used only for cards that do not have their own security. Have the people that are so upset about this and have a card such as VISA tried to transfer yet?

[Pawkeshup]

It doesn't give an option for NA or EU clients. As I said Nvr, what version are you using? If you are using a JP version of the game, you are allowed to select a credit card option. Everyone else is unable to do so, it's not an option.

Edit:

Also, C&B REQUIRES a 3D/VbV card be used with their services, so no, it's not an option for people who are unable to have a 3D/VbV card.

[Nvr]

I live in the U.S., and I am using an NA copy. In my account details for my POL account it says,

Payment Method: Credit Card/Debit Card

I was never directed to ClickandBuy and I was never prompted to create a ClickandBuy account.

[Pawkeshup]

Oooo so maybe they've ninja-fixed it! When I checked at the start of this, only C&B and Crysta were options...

BRB

[Nvr]

I tranfered my account within an hour of them posting the notice on POL.com.

*Edit*

Please keep in mind that I have 3-D Secure activated on my card, which is a free service some major credit cards offer to make transactions more secure. If fact, like I said, SE had started requiring people to activate it on new cards that were added to accounts like 2 years ago.

[Pawkeshup]

I'm sorry, but I just went again, it's still only C&B and Crysta, using a NA client.

[Nvr]

Bummer, we'll see what happens then, they will charge me again tomorrow. So we will see if it goes through for me still, or if they deactivate my account until I make a clickandbuy account.

[Pawkeshup]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/osg-rpge/bleh.png

That's what I'm getting. Again, are you both using NA clients or JP clients?

Edit: Plus I have a 3D secured card and a VbV card. Using VbV for wife and 3D for me. So it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

[Revanchist]

I thought that the payment transfer option to Clickandbuy or Play Span w/e, was set to be put in place at the end of August. If so, then the current payment option via direct debit is still valid.

[Nvr]

I just want to follow up with you guys to repair any confusion I may have cause.

I apparently did make a ClickandBuy account, but it seemed to have all be done within the SE account web page and used existing information from my SE account. I did not put in any new information. I must have really not been paying much attention, but it really was incredibly easy. I'll wait to complain about ClickandBuy when/if I ever have a problem with them.

[Maacha]

Proof that ClickandBuy is not doing what SE said they were supposed to be doing. We were not supposed to have to pay any international fees to use that service, but when I tried setting it up a few days ago, here is what happened to my bank account:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/df43a04d4ed8de0df1fed6adfc58027e.jpg

This was using my US Debit card, since I was unable to register my Korean credit card at all. I cannot use my US card to pay for FFXI because I am unable to send enough money to the US to cover my subscription for more than a couple months. I cancelled the ClickandBuy service that same day, before these charges had even been made, here is the email they sent me when I cancelled:


Dear Ms. Park,

Thank you for contacting ClickandBuy and for your message.

Our records do not reflect the charges mentioned in your message. This indicates that you are referring to pre-authorised charges or reservations, which either occurs when you attempt to make a purchase that fails or when we verify the validity of your payment method during the registration process.

This transaction is purely a reservation and no funds are taken from your account; they are merely reserved by your payment provider. After approximately five working days, the reserved charges are automatically released.

In the event that the reserve does not get released please contact your credit card issuer to speed up the process.

Please select answer or reply when responding to this email as opposed to sending a new email as this will aid us in resolving your issue with more efficiency.

Yours sincerely,

ClickandBuy Service Team

Those were not precharges, they were actual charges and I got charged fees for them. Even if the charges themselves are reversed in a few days, I highly doubt I will be getting those fees back. Sure it's only a few cents, but I should not have incurred those charges at at all...

[Zoner]

Proof that ClickandBuy is not doing what SE said they were supposed to be doing. We were not supposed to have to pay any international fees to use that service, but when I tried setting it up a few days ago, here is what happened to my bank account:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/df43a04d4ed8de0df1fed6adfc58027e.jpg

This was using my US Debit card, since I was unable to register my Korean credit card at all. I cannot use my US card to pay for FFXI because I am unable to send enough money to the US to cover my subscription for more than a couple months. I cancelled the ClickandBuy service that same day, before these charges had even been made, here is the email they sent me when I cancelled:



Those were not precharges, they were actual charges and I got charged fees for them. Even if the charges themselves are reversed in a few days, I highly doubt I will be getting those fees back. Sure it's only a few cents, but I should not have incurred those charges at at all...

I just checked my statement from BoA, seems they did the same to me as well....so either SE lied or clickandbuy is skimming off the top

[Tepogue]

After 7 years of playing. I am canceling 1 of my 3 accounts as soon as maintenance is over and most likely canceling the other 2 at the end of August. I see no reason for being forced to buy Crysta. I'm an adult. I pay the exact amounts due for my bills. I don't pay to the nearest dollar or some other amount. I'm not buying crysta. After all the Click and Buy posts I don't trust them either.

[Nvr]

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

[Maacha]

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

Other people who have posted about the ClickandBuy verifications back when FFXIV was beginning said they did not get refunds, they got credits to their "emoney" accounts. As of right now, they are actual charges, they are not marked as "pending" by my bank. Only time will tell if they are refunded or not, but those fees from my bank are likely permanent. Again, it's only a few cents, but after being told we would not have any fees...

[Maacha]

I think the silent majority is waiting for SE respond which probably won't happen until the the end of August when their face turn white and start pointing fingers after looking at the monthly subscription figures.

There won't be a shitstorm on these forums after Aug 31st when people discover the changes, because all those people will be locked out of the game and thus locked out of the forums... The shitstorm will happen on BG, Allah, FFXIAH etc. Sure hope SE still reads those...

[Nvr]

Again, it's only a few cents, but after being told we would not have any fees...

I hate bumming you out, but your statement shows $3.49 in charges.

it starts with -1.62, so you account started at 650.84 before the first charge, and you account ends with a 647.35 balance.

[Maacha]

I hate bumming you out, but your statement shows $3.49 in charges.

it starts with -1.62, so you account started at 650.84 before the first charge, and you account ends with a 647.35 balance.

I meant a few cents by the .05 international service fee charged by my bank after the C&B transaction, which I highly doubt I will have refunded even if C&B does refund those 2 test charges they made.

[Dragoy]

They are (or at least were not so long in the past) 're-funded' to your ClakandBuy account so technically they are not charges but... yeah.

[Lollerblades]

In the politest possible way . What a bag of wank... Why change it after 9 sodding years ? Yes FFXIV will eventually be billed this way but why can't you just leave use with PoL? Why change it ? Is it broken? Does it need fixing? NO! So why on earth do you need to change the whole paying system. I refuse to use click and buy as they are a big bag of crap . Paypal i could understand but this shoddy piece of shite? Is Squeenix on CRACK ?

[Knives]

To be fair, billing on POL wasn't perfect. You'd constantly hear about people being double-billed on some months, and if you resubscribed later in the month, you could essentially be paying $13 for five days of play. It's good that they wanted to change it.

However, this new system is not an improvement. People are quite literally getting locked out of playing over this. Many people will no longer have to worry about double billing, but many won't have to worry about that at all if they can't even buy Crysta or go through C&B due to their countries rejecting such offers. All this proves is that Square-Enix has a lot to learn about billing its customers, even nine years later.

[Zoner]

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

Last I checked reservations don't show up on paper bank statements

[Oddwaffle]

In the politest possible way . What a bag of wank... Why change it after 9 sodding years ? Yes FFXIV will eventually be billed this way but why can't you just leave use with PoL? Why change it ? Is it broken? Does it need fixing? NO! So why on earth do you need to change the whole paying system. I refuse to use click and buy as they are a big bag of crap . Paypal i could understand but this shoddy piece of shite? Is Squeenix on CRACK ?

To answer the 1st question: Why did SE change their payment method?

I think the answer is fairly obvious of why SE changed from POL to SquareEnix account management. They want to cut down costs and responsibilities of doing their whole payment/credit card thing. The whole charge back, angry customers, fraudulent cards, RMT, payment servers, international payments, currency conversion...etc those costs SE money to operate and SE is smart enough to know that it's not really good at those aspects. Shifting the billing department to a 3rd party firm is a fairly common practice for MMO companies as the 3rd party firms are usually experienced and efficient for these tasks.

SE account management does 2 things POL set out to do (and failed). #1 It collects all the online player base of SE for current and future games into 1 single database. #2 Acts as a platform to connects SE with its customers without the need to tie any games to act as an intermediary (such as FFXI player base connects with SE through POL while FFXIV player base is not) so SE can promote its game much easier and player can streamline several games with just 1 single account instead of several.

If you think about it, you will notice it's much easier to sell your used items when ebay acts as your seller and paypal acts as your billing agent. Your only concern would be to present the stuff, ship them and wait for money to roll in. You might get a few hick-cups here and there but it's much better than opening your own website and do everything on your own. SE is in the same position as you are. They are a game company that is used to make games and sell them in stores through a distribution agent. They aren't very good with the whole subscriptions and international currency/markets/laws/customers.

Now the 2nd and more important question you wanted to ask was: Why did SE select C&B for the international market?

For this question, your answer is as good as mine. I think C&B just sent a better sales person on SE door with a better offering on costs saving for SE. Or maybe SE was just throwing the lottery and C&B name showed up on a very big piece of paper and SE is clueless about NA/EU market business. Or perhaps Paypal has certain restrictions that SE doesn't like or they just couldn't work out the fine prints in their deals. Or perhaps SE is so bad that nobody wanted to deal with them and only C&B is the willing firm.

[Sparthos]

There won't be a shitstorm on these forums after Aug 31st when people discover the changes, because all those people will be locked out of the game and thus locked out of the forums... The shitstorm will happen on BG, Allah, FFXIAH etc. Sure hope SE still reads those...

Honest question: Do you immediately get locked out of these forums if your account goes inactive due to nonpayment?

I ask because last month when SEs biller goofed and locked out my character, I was still able to post on these boards.

[RAIST]

@odd waffle

Actually, SE didn't have to convert any currency in the process--that is all handled between the financial orginazations involved. USD has been a centralized currency in the markets for YEARS as one of the baselines.

The shift is more likely to simply get out of their POL database because it was either proprietary or otherwise not capable of handling scripting like so many other databases that are so easliy manageable with a simple language like SQL. Moving to a more stremalined and manageable database model will allow them to automate and otherwise streamline all processes, potentially reducing downtime and reducing daily operating costs considerably.

So, from that viewpoint, migrating the data makes perfect sense. But then that poses an even bigger problem. You need a secure connection to a CC processor for completing transactions. It appears in the old system, they were sluffing off the process to regional offices (US payments showed up as being from their CA division and not Tokyo), so they were processing US payments through a US processor in US dollar amounts via a secure connection between that office and that regional CC processor. After this move, they may have a streamlined database capable of using simple query and update statements to pull/update that data on the fly. They could potentially arrange to make a secure connection from Tokyo to a US CC processor, poll the necessary data from the new database (such as Square Enix USA, CA details, $12.95 USD, other necessary details) to build the XML string to process the payment directly from Tokyo, on behalf of the US division plunking that money into the US divisions bank accounts--effectively doing the same thing without having to suynchronize all the data to the US first for local processing and then synching it back to JP.

There may be some legal constraints to this though...if so, the system should still be much more efficient at transfering just the required info to the regional office for processing to bypass those constraints and then sling it back to Tokyo. Less data means shorter transfers and less downtime, and by being able to use a more robust scripting language it allows more automation as well which results in less payroll cost in the end.

[RAIST]

Honest question: Do you immediately get locked out of these forums if your account goes inactive due to nonpayment?

I ask because last month when SEs biller goofed and locked out my character, I was still able to post on these boards.

That remains to be seen. Don't think we've been given an answer to that from SE, maybe... don't remember.

But it could be that when you try to sign in with your SE ID, you are flagged for not having your POL account transferred yet, and get sent directly to the transfer page, effectively blocking you from getting into the forums. The forums are requiring some game data that is in the POL system and needs to be transfered to your SE account so it can validate you and log you into the forums.

So, in a round-about way, you may get blocked from the forums until you transfer all your remaining POL data to SEID.

[meecrob]

i agree with not wanting to deal with click and buy. when i made my account on there the day ffxiv came out, my bank shut my card off due to that site being notorious for credit card fraud. took me a few days to get everything straightened out.

what's so hard about processing our cards yourselves SE?!?

[Niyariko]

...All this proves is that Square-Enix has a lot to learn about billing its customers, even nine years later.

lol not only in the billing department, SE also has a lot to learn making MMO even with 9 years of experience, look at how 14 started. Its shocking, really.

[wildsprite]

I think 14 proved the head of 11 had a bit more of an ego than he should have, look at 14 for a bit, yeah sure its gameplay style is a bit different but you cant help but think they were trying to make 14 an awful lot like 11, too much like 11 infact, and they spent way too much money developing a lackluster gaming engine (that requires far too high of specs for the PC) for it when they could have used one of the half way decent ones already out there

[Knives]

lol not only in the billing department, SE also has a lot to learn making MMO even with 9 years of experience, look at how 14 started. Its shocking, really.

No argument there. Buying FFXIV is the worst video game related choice I've made in years. Sigh.

[RAIST]

hehe.. fortunately I was lucky enough to get in on the beta, so I was lucky enough to get advanced notice and not buy it yet.

+1's for the last few posts.... if we could.... /liked

[Niyariko]

hehe.. fortunately I was lucky enough to get in on the beta, so I was lucky enough to get advanced notice and not buy it yet.

+1's for the last few posts.... if we could.... /liked

I was in the beta as well, in fact, I was one of the few lucky ones who got invited into Alpha late march 2010. And I was keep on telling my self that "this is only alpha/beta, and SE only showing a fraction of the game, it will be great when is out"...

I was wrong, so wrong, nothing changed in the released version.

edit: btw I just found out one of the post was nuked by SE (Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system) I hope they don't nuke this one as well.

They can delete the post, but they can never delete our concerns (until the issue is fixed).;)

[Rizon]

So here goes. Less then 12 hours til the server maintenance. Will I still be playing FFXI on Tuesday or will my Accts be cancelled because of SEs screwups. I got cought up in the 1Jul fiasco and as a result I was suspended for non payment even though their billing company had my payment for 17 days before they reversed it. As a result I had I had to reverify my card and reactivate my ID. Because of this I was not able to transfer to SE Account Managent system until after the 1 Aug billing. Question is will they be using the old system? If so then I should be fine......I hope. If not then they will not get paid in Aug, I will not be able to transfer and I will lose my Acct. Sad part is I have more then enough Crysta purchased from setting up FFXIV that this could have been avoided. Just cannot access it. What infuriates me is the fact that SE is totally ignoring this situation. I could not get a straight answer from Live chat and they have totally ignored these forums. Wish me luck.

[RAIST]

As I understood it, POL will still be in service through to 8/31 (they're also giving us until then to transfer and get the item). So we should get through this billing cycle fine if still on the old system.

The next cycle may be in question though (reference the 8/31 cutoff for the free item). They could be planning to do one more billing via POL and then kill it completely after that maybe.

But considering as it's stated now, it sounds like we can't get into game after 8/31 without transferring so I would expect they weren't planning to bill anymore via the POL system after this cycle.

[RAIST]

I was in the beta as well, in fact, I was one of the few lucky ones who got invited into Alpha late march 2010. And I was keep on telling my self that "this is only alpha/beta, and SE only showing a fraction of the game, it will be great when is out"...

I was wrong, so wrong, nothing changed in the released version.

edit: btw I just found out one of the post was nuked by SE (Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system) I hope they don't nuke this one as well.

They can delete the post, but they can never delete our concerns (until the issue is fixed).;)

That is a little disconcerting....if anything, they should have stickied it. That way if SE doesn't fix it and the boss goes on a tirade at their next quarterly meeting and wants to know WTF happened, they'll have something to explain it. Last I saw it was up to $800 of lost recurring revenue--and that's just from a small sampling of the playerbase.

[Malacite]

Methinks some of the higher-ups got spooked.

I call Fascism.

[Kojo]

It's probably more of a bandwagon prevention thing. "Hey, they aren't paying SE, I won't, either! They'll have no choice!" So probably more of a business decision than just to 'hide the truth'. It may even be archived or moved to a Dev-only forum.

[Felren]

Hiding the truth IS a business decision..... just a very unethical one.

[Niyariko]

If they wanna be unethical, they could just overcharge all our creditcard while they still can, then close all ffxi service, at least that would be a better use of unethical "immediate profitable" business decision. ;)

/joking

[malf]

Made the migration (my bad), didn't choose a payment method. Now today no more content ID. K, thanks,bye see you later after they change their crap(perhaps)

[Alukat]

Made the migration (my bad), didn't choose a payment method. Now today no more content ID. K, thanks,bye see you later after they change their crap(perhaps)

same for me

[Niyariko]

We shouldn't start counting again "I'll quit coz of this" in this thread, or else SE will nuke this thread just like how they deleted "Just-how-much-will-SE-lose-over-this-new-billing-system." without give us a reason why. ;)

[RAIST]

hehe... that would be interesting....delete the more or less main thread on the issue---with over 600 posts in it and still no post from a mod in it, just some mediation action on some posts.

Hope they actually are taking note of the new posters coming in here like that. Each new name registering a complaint puts us one step closer to the threshold that puts a fire under someone's butt to make a decision on how to handle it.

Edit: @Alukat
might want to clean up the tags a bit. It's getting a little out of hand down there.

[Revanchist]

Like RAIST said, over 600 posts and nothing from SE about this.... TBH, I'm a little concerned about what's going to happen at the end of the month with the payment options. It's obvious Moderators have been in this thread (judging from the deleted posts etc), so they'd have to know that people are concerned about this and want some answers.

I don't think it's too much to ask that SE respond to this, more than what they've done already (with that statement issued by Matt "Bayohne" Hilton, the other day) and re-examine the situation. 62 pages in, and nothing told so far about what's being done to rectify this situation, isn't going to go down well with the consumer base at all. Granted there are some who acting concerned about this and are offering their own opinions/advice (I think we know who they are), as well as some are 'raging', but ultimately, there are people who want to know what's going on here. Is that too much to ask?

[Phen]

Sorry to lazy out on this but Ive caught a lot of posts of my bank auto-blocks click and buy. Do we have a list of major banks that do this. I think from the business side the loss in billing if some big names show up there is the most convincing way to have them expedite other payment plans.

[Octaviane]

No Mod is going to post in here without having to close the Thread for obvious reasons. I sincerely hope that for everyone's sake SE IS paying attention. Over 600 posts even if it is a relatively small sampling of the player base warrants a definitive response.

How many players are not going to be able to play at all because payment options aren't available in their countries is as yet unknown. People who have previously been able to pay with Pre-paid debit cards now can't and an overwhelming number of people who refuse to do business with ClickandBuy should have sent up an enormous RED FLAG to SE.

The weekend is over SE, time to get back to work and take care of the mess you have made.

[Byrth]

What should really catch SE's attention is the number of first-time posters that apparently sought out the Official Forums solely to express their displeasure at this change.

[Kojo]

Alot of players I've talked to don't even know about the change, let alone the shadiness of CnB.

[Yinnyth]

"This month's payments have not yet processed. Please try again next month."

Looks like I don't even get to see the evils of cnb until "next month" if I believe the autoresponse the SE site gave me, though I'm guessing it's just a lockout until POL charges my card.

This whole cnb stuff sounds awesome. First we had our playonline account and password. Then we had that whole verified by visa account and password crap. Oh yeah, and then the square enix account and password. And now a click and buy account and password. I sure hope they require me to have more accounts and passwords soon, I just can't get enough of them!

[Hvinire]

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:

Greetings all,

We wanted to take a moment to let you know that we are aware of the comments and discussions taking place regarding the new payment procedures not only on the official forum, but on the community sites, as well.

While we don't have specific details to share at this time, we do want to inform you that improving the payment processing options are still a part of an ongoing process. We will continue to take all the feedback we receive as we strive to make the experience as user-friendly as possible for all of our customers going forward.

Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

[Azaril]

this is complete BS SE, why force us to use a 3rd party to handle monthly payment, now my friend cant even login or pay now, and i fear for myself afetr i transfer over. Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

[Tarumage]

At least it looks like they're taking our feedback to heart.

[Tashan]

Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

Concerning my money, I woulld rather not wait for it to break.

Playonline is a decade old system, it can no way in any shape or form be sufficient to keep up with security systems in today and tomorrow's environment.

Also SE's Eidosmontreal website was hacked in March.

[Finuve]

Finally a response, thanks SE, just try and be a bit quicker when there is obviously a huge outcry...either way good to hear that you are hearing us

[Jile]

clickandbuy is garbage.

My wife and I pay on two different credit cards and use two different tokens (some how she thought my mouth might get me banned some day and didn't want her account banned with me).

Registered my account with clickandbuy and linked it fine to my account.

Registered my wife's account with clickandbuy and they put a hold on it. We called and they want printouts of checking account and utility bills to verify she resides at this address. So I had them pull up my account and verified she lives here but that's not enough..... so, the only way I can setup payment without giving clickandbuy information I wouldn't give anyone else is to cancel my wife's token and link her to my account then I can have billing work.

Total BS!

For anyone calling, I was told there are no supervisor's working after 1700 London time... so my call at noon PST was too late today to talk to one.

[Kagato]

Paypal would be an excellent payment method.

[Jile]

I would be glad to setup a payment with paypal ~ while they do have shady issues of their own, I'd take them over clickandbuy.

[Panthera]

Finally a response, thanks SE, just try and be a bit quicker when there is obviously a huge outcry...either way good to hear that you are hearing us

Their quote was a re-post from a response from last week.

Well, at least they're still communicating with us. I figured they'da worked on it last week and over the weekend, and come out with an annoucement of the fix today. I guess they need more time yet.

Just say patient fellas, they're working on it.

May their solution be satisfactory.

[Sasaraixx]

For those of us that have not transferred yet, are we okay for the August payment? I noticed today that my account had not been charged today. I was hoping to hold out for a bit in hopes that another option might become available before the 31st of August.

[Karbuncle]

For what its worth, we have to understand the Reps here aren't in contact with Square Enix, they're in contact with the Development team for FFXI.

And im sure it was not the Dev teams choice to make this new billing system, it was likely the higher ups. The reps can only respond with the info they're given (like specifics), But i doubt they can get to a higher-up SE official and ask them to change it.

Edit: Which seems to not be true based on the previous Rep post in this thread. hurray for me missing it!

[RAIST]

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:


Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

Thanks for the effort Hvinire, but Matt's post has already been referenced and quoted. And, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but it really does nothing to encourage us that anything is being considered that would actually rectify the situation. I'm not trying to single you or any of the moderators out with this post--I know how your hands are tied as I have worked support for a private software firm that was responsible to corporate and government entities and I know the rock-in-a-hard-place spot you guys are left with So please if I offend, I do not mean to. I just feel the need to put something on record detailing how I and many others view this situation in one post that you may be able to forward up the chain of command that are governing the flow of information, as well as those making the determinations for development that directly affect the issues at hand.

One of the biggest problems people have with this change is the disparity between the billing options between JP region and all other regions. For YEARS SE has preached both regional and platform equality within the scope of FFXI. This decision to continue this option for one specific region with no explanation for why it has been denied to everyone else just simply contradicts SE's past declarations in regard to balance. SE REALLY needs to make a definitive statement on just WHY this decision was made--and whether they are looking to rectify that SPECIFIC issue, not just the billing processes in general as they did with Matt's post. This is gearing up to be one of the biggest Public Relations blunders I have seen in a loooong time. This has the potential to have a long term affect on SE's bottom line--it potentially can affect not only FFXI revenues in the short term, but also the revenues of all other current and future projects. It's just human nature...once bitten, twice shy. Just look at what has happened with the distrust over Click&Buy in the corporate world that has filtered into the distrust of the consumers for a recent example.

It is known that SE is capable of processing credit card payments for the other regions (as evidenced by their online stores). It is also known that SE knows how to bill those credit cards specifically for FFXI subscription fees (as evidenced by how long it's been done through POL). It is known that they have come up with a way to accept the credit card information through the SE account pages (as evidenced by the JP regional transfer guide).

Taking all that into account, it would appear to the general public that SE has all the pieces to the puzzle already to make the direct pay credit card option available to the other regions. Granted, there may be some issues in making all the pieces fit now as things are getting restructured with moving to a different database, maybe new PCI-DSS requirements, or FSA regulations and what-not. If so, why can't SE let you guys pass that one.

All we're asking for is a little more information than...we are aware of the comments... it's a work in progress. How about something more along the lines of.... we are aware of the players concerns of issues with credit card processing but due to specific difficulties we are unable to continue this service for all regions, but we are looking into alternative solutions to the problem.

As it stands right now....many are just throwing their hands in the air and not expecting anything to be done about it. This is doing NOTHING to encouraging people to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and the possibility of a mass exodus from either just FFXI or Square-Enix in general is increasing daily with the silence. If they could at the very least release a statement that clearly states they are putting forth a best effort attempt to provide this direct-pay by credit card to all regions, it would salvage a LOT of pending loss of revenue. There are many that may opt to continue subscribing via Crysta in the short term if they know they stand a reasonable chance to go back to directly billing their credit cards.

Please... just let us know exactly where SE stands on this issue. And don't be afraid to divulge the specifics. Trust me...even if it is just a cost issue with maintaining the service, you might be surprised by how many might be willing to pay slightly more for the added convenience and security. If you don't believe me, here is a real-life example:

A firm I worked for developed a front end for processing tax payments online. The counties would always balk at the credit card processing fees from the clearing houses and did not want to absorb the costs. In EVERY case they ended up passing that fee directly to the customer. We clearly displayed there would be a fee incurred to cover the cost of using an online processor, broke the fess down in the shopping cart so they could see it and decide to cancel the transaction. NO ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE FEES. In every case, in-house traffic reduced. Most counties put up kiosks so those that did walk-in could pay without standing in line--and they happily paid the extra fee without a word even though they were right there in the cashiers office. In the end, operational costs were reduced, and some even requested more applications to do the same thing. We wound up taking the same structure and built applications for them to accept water bill payments, family court payments, traffic court tickets, vehicle tax and license plates, and even the entire Parks and Recreations division went online for one county--allowing residents to reserve park facilities, sign up for community classes and activities (soccer, basketball, baseball, etc and could even order and pay for uniforms through the portal). All along, being notified of the extra fee being passed along, and happily and willingly paying that extra fee as it justified the added convenience.

Please, do not underestimate the value of disclosure when dealing with an issue with as much an impact as this.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[Septimus]

this is complete BS SE, why force us to use a 3rd party to handle monthly payment, now my friend cant even login or pay now, and i fear for myself afetr i transfer over. Why Fix Something that was not broke!?

It was broken already. People who didn't have 3D Secure cards have had to fight Square to take their money for years.

[RAIST]

It was broken already. People who didn't have 3D Secure cards have had to fight Square to take their money for years.

and now those that COULD use a credit card are being denied, and for some it is the ONLY way to pay, as C&B can't process payments, and Crysta not offered by SE.

The point is....the new options should have been made available in PARALLEL to the current 3DS option so ALL bases are covered--along the lines of what they are doing for JP region. Japanese players have virtually NOTHING preventing them from paying for FFXI. They get the added benefit of a secured CC option direct to SE and not through a third party, or they can go through a currency vendor and buy Crysta if the want/need to.

[Septimus]

and now those that COULD use a credit card are being denied, and for some it is the ONLY way to pay, as C&B can't process payments, and Crysta not offered by SE.

The point is....the new options should have been made available in PARALLEL to the current 3DS option so ALL bases are covered--along the lines of what they are doing for JP region. Japanese players have virtually NOTHING preventing them from paying for FFXI. They get the added benefit of a secured CC option direct to SE and not through a third party, or they can go through a currency vendor and buy Crysta if the want/need to.

The point is that it was broken for some people already.

Do I think that this is the best system possible? No, I do not. But the old system was terrible for some people also.

Yes, it would be best if we have the option for direct credit cards (like the Japanese players have) and Crysta available, but Crysta is not the Apocalypse.

[Terrigenesis]

I know several people that are irritated at this situation. Several of my long time (5+ years) are quitting a game they love due the this payment method. I for one cannot go though Clickandbuy due to my bank refusing to associate itself with such an ill reputable company as them. Crysta would be an option if it were not for the companies associated with it also being ill reputable for the same reasons. Their for, Someone like me who has a bank that will not associate with such companies are left with ZERO options. I have stuck around for years and brought around 30 people into playing this game and due to this change in business practices, about 40 people that I know will be quitting. Including our characters and mules, this comes to a total of $678 a month that they will be loosing that I can account for. Due to this, I hereby sign this petition for all 39 people I know that do not have forum accounts plus myself.

[Zumi]

Used the $70 of Crysta I bought awhile ago when FFXIV came out, since SE ended up not charging for 14 I got Crysta to use for FFXI now. Bought it with UltimatePay + Paypal it works fine.

I just got an Email that said they deducted 1395 Crysta from my account so the new billing system isn't that bad, worked fine for me.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:


Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.Please not that in your disscussions that you should be able to add multiple instances of crysta in the same purchace. Forcing to purchase the increments seperately only causes credit card providers to think that the card may have been stolen and stop payment. Being able to add several of your preset allotments into one bill will make it easier on people. Also, why simply no option for 1500? Most people would fall into this catagory.
Paypal would be an excellent payment method.You can use paypal, just click the unlimitedplay and the option appears.

[RAIST]

The point is that it was broken for some people already.

Do I think that this is the best system possible? No, I do not. But the old system was terrible for some people also.

Yes, it would be best if we have the option for direct credit cards (like the Japanese players have) and Crysta available, but Crysta is not the Apocalypse.

And now it is broken for just as many...if not MORE. Reference an entire region ine the South Pacific (generally in and around Australia, New Zealand, islands like Guam and such...no word if the Philippines and Indonesia have been hit by this, but they may be as well considering their proximity. note that Guam is a US territory, but is getting blocked because of regional location and common business/legal issues specific to that region.

Some nations have laws on the books that make Crysta too much a risk for SE to extend the option to. One example: South Korean law dictates that Virtual Property be treated as Real Property, so people have a legal right to compensation for loss of Virtual Property (ie left over Crysta if they leave the game or it gets shutdown). These kinds of things create complications for SE, so the opt not to extend Crysta as an option for payment in some of these countries. Yet, they were sure enough taking their credit cards directly before this move, and now because of issues with C&B, those players can't pay at all.

[Vosslerr]

All this depends, if it means no more 3D-Secure, I'm all for it. If you don't trust "Click and BUY" then purchase a prepaid card. I use one in all my online transactions. I have quite a number of friends that were booted when 3-D secure first came out. I was also, but finally made it back after a year and a half of trying to find a 3D secure bank. Even going so far as closing my own bank account to start another at another bank, only to come to find out that they have no clue what 3D secure is, and it was a major bank chain lol. So if this takes away 3D-Secure, then sorry, but no support for this petition.

[Knives]

Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

I'm waiting to see when you're going to allow all regions to personally unlock their PlayOnline accounts from their Square-Enix IDs.

I'm American.
My American SEID is linked to Final Fantasy XIV.
My Japanese SEID is linked to Final Fantasy XI.

I linked my Japanese FFXI ID solely to obtain a mog satchel in the game, using the Security Token that came packaged with my copy of Final Fantasy XIV.
Because of briefly linking my Japanese ID, I am now unable to link my American SEID to my Japanese POL ID now, even though the NA PlayOnline site says it is possible now. Until I am able to unlink my Japanese PlayOnline ID, I am unable to play the game under the new billing options. Please help. I've been trying to contact Square-Enix Support Center reps in both North America and Japan, but so far neither will help me and I'm out of options. I want to keep playing the game, but I'm being forced out.

[Ravenmore]

I thought about using a prepaid card with C&B as well but if you have problems getting it though and they ask for ID and bank statement still out of luck. I haven't tried it and don't plain to since I have 2 mules the crysta won't hurt me as bad as others with only thier mains or people in locked out areas.

[meecrob]

ok, i quit. i don't have my playonline registration codes from years and years ago, so, the end....

[Yinnyth]

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:


Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

I had read that before I posted here, but let us not forget there was also an enormous outrage during the Verified by Visa change as well. A few customers refused (or were unable) to jump through the extra hoop (my Dynamis linkshell lost 3 people at the time; 1 managed to come back about a month later after dealing with all kinds of credit card hell since his banks didn't offer that sort of service, the other 2 still no longer play). SE did nothing. Verified by Visa became mandatory despite the public bashing SE took for it, and I don't even remember an official explanation of why it was required, much less taking any steps to get around it.

So why, pray tell, should anyone believe that this situation will be any different? If history repeats itself, 1 month from today the only people playing will be people who jumped through that hoop, and SE will offer no explanation as to why it is necessary.

Edit: And more to the point, why on earth should it take 4 seperate accounts, each with their own password, to play ONEEEEE GAMEEEEE?! Switch over to square enix account and password with no need for POL, ditch this retarded 3-D security crap, and let us pay you directly instead of through a shady company. Life is increasingly dominated by ____ing passwords. It's outright wasteful. Be clean, efficient, and cut out the garbage.

[Neika]

ok, i quit. i don't have my playonline registration codes from years and years ago, so, the end....

Wait....you need the registration codes to transfer the accounts over?

[RAIST]

All this depends, if it means no more 3D-Secure, I'm all for it. If you don't trust "Click and BUY" then purchase a prepaid card. I use one in all my online transactions. I have quite a number of friends that were booted when 3-D secure first came out. I was also, but finally made it back after a year and a half of trying to find a 3D secure bank. Even going so far as closing my own bank account to start another at another bank, only to come to find out that they have no clue what 3D secure is, and it was a major bank chain lol. So if this takes away 3D-Secure, then sorry, but no support for this petition.

you can lookup credit card issuers supporting 3DS protocols at both the MasterCard (Securecode) and Visa (Verify by Visa)websites if anyone is having trouble picking someone to get a card from.

[RAIST]

I'm waiting to see when you're going to allow all regions to personally unlock their PlayOnline accounts from their Square-Enix IDs.

I'm American.
My American SEID is linked to Final Fantasy XIV.
My Japanese SEID is linked to Final Fantasy XI.

I linked my Japanese FFXI ID solely to obtain a mog satchel in the game, using the Security Token that came packaged with my copy of Final Fantasy XIV.
Because of briefly linking my Japanese ID, I am now unable to link my American SEID to my Japanese POL ID now, even though the NA PlayOnline site says it is possible now. Until I am able to unlink my Japanese PlayOnline ID, I am unable to play the game under the new billing options. Please help. I've been trying to contact Square-Enix Support Center reps in both North America and Japan, but so far neither will help me and I'm out of options. I want to keep playing the game, but I'm being forced out.

Some reported being able to unlink SEID/POL ID's by calling the help number listed in their installation manuals. If you don't have one, you should be able to get it through the original Service and Support Portal linked off the playonline.com page--may even be able to get assistance with it through the online chat feature there also.

You may need account specific details like your POL ID, POL email address, registration codes, first 4 and last 4 of the credit card you were using, etc. for verifying you are the actual owner of the account first.

[RAIST]

ok, i quit. i don't have my playonline registration codes from years and years ago, so, the end....

If you can still get into your content ID management screen, you can lookup your registration codes and write them down..at least I think you still can. Haven't looked it up just yet. Want to say it was under Managing/Verifying Content ID's.

[RAIST]

Wait....you need the registration codes to transfer the accounts over?

If you need to unlink your SEID and POL ID's to correct regional differences. Some couples are also unlinking seperate accounts and putting two POLID's under one SEID so both accounts share the same payment pool. Various things like that. But it's more for if you are tweaking the POL/SEID linkage, activate/deactivating ID's and the like.

[Pharaun]

I saw the crown icon on the main page and got excited thinking that SE had finally said something, and then I see that they just reposted the sticky reply that had been posted in here several times already. I am very disappoint SE...

[Knives]

Some reported being able to unlink SEID/POL ID's by calling the help number listed in their installation manuals. If you don't have one, you should be able to get it through the original Service and Support Portal linked off the playonline.com page--may even be able to get assistance with it through the online chat feature there also.

You may need account specific details like your POL ID, POL email address, registration codes, first 4 and last 4 of the credit card you were using, etc. for verifying you are the actual owner of the account first.

Thanks... but unfortunately, I've already tried this. Forum member Puck directed me down this path, but Square-Enix's support number did absolutely nothing for me. The North American support line is unable to perform any actions on Japanese accounts.

I have every single code since I started playing, minus the add-ons since their codes were added automatically by POL immediately after buying them. The bottom line is there is a tremendous gap between the management in North America and Japan, and bridging that gap is very hard when I'm not fluent in Japanese.

[Hvinire]

I understand the post was copied here by users who read from the FAQ thread, but just wanted to be sure to get a dev tracked post directly into the thread so anyone not reading the entire thread can follow the discussion.

We'll continue to update all the users best we can as we discuss the subject internally. We really do appreciate your patience and know that you are waiting eagerly for further replies.

I'll leave it at that for now and get back to you next when there is more information.

[Kojo]

Hvinire, I, for one, am waiting as long as I can for transfer to see if there will be an alternate option for automated payment, be it directly to SE (preferred) or via Paypal (will suffice). You must understand many of us had never heard of ClickandBuy until this and that's when we learned of their shady reputation, but many of us know and partially trust Paypal, but can't even force ourselves to trust ClickandBuy with our bank account. Crysta is a hassle and we don't want to buy extra, we mostly want equality. If you can, can you atleast give an explanation as to why the Japanese playerbase can buy exact amounts of Crysta and can give automated payments directly to SE, so we can better understand and not point fingers in assumption?

[Nakts]

Hvinire, I, for one, am waiting as long as I can for transfer to see if there will be an alternate option for automated payment, be it directly to SE (preferred) or via Paypal (will suffice). You must understand many of us had never heard of ClickandBuy until this and that's when we learned of their shady reputation, but many of us know and partially trust Paypal, but can't even force ourselves to trust ClickandBuy with our bank account. Crysta is a hassle and we don't want to buy extra, we mostly want equality. If you can, can you atleast give an explanation as to why the Japanese playerbase can buy exact amounts of Crysta and can give automated payments directly to SE, so we can better understand and not point fingers in assumption?

this is by far the best post that will probably go ignored by the folks in charge I've read

[Dulcinea]

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.


That Q & A is from the Square Enix Acount Trasfer FAQ thread.


This is not completely true. In order to use a credit card or bank account, you have to confirm it. They charge between $1.00 - $1.99 and not necessarily in your nations currency. The note below is from the Click & Buy website in the "Help pages" about confirming payment methods.

Please note that the charges on your credit card statement may be in a different currency from the one required on the last confirmation page described above. If your credit card statement does not display the original transaction amounts in the required currency, you will have to contact your credit card company. They should be able to tell you the amounts of the two charges in the original currency.

This means that the payment to confimr the credit card, may be even more than $1.99 because of currency exchange rates.

[Ragni]

Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.


That Q & A is from the Square Enix Acount Trasfer FAQ thread.


This is not completely true. In order to use a credit card or bank account, you have to confirm it. They charge between $1.00 - $1.99 and not necessarily in your nations currency. The note below is from the Click & Buy website in the "Help pages" about confirming payment methods.

Please note that the charges on your credit card statement may be in a different currency from the one required on the last confirmation page described above. If your credit card statement does not display the original transaction amounts in the required currency, you will have to contact your credit card company. They should be able to tell you the amounts of the two charges in the original currency.

This means that the payment to confimr the credit card, may be even more than $1.99 because of currency exchange rates.

Yeah i got charged 1 euro for each transaction which is ....
Also forcing me to change currency from dollar to euro is not right. I should have a choice in which currency i want to pay!

[Rage]

If you need to unlink your SEID and POL ID's to correct regional differences. Some couples are also unlinking seperate accounts and putting two POLID's under one SEID so both accounts share the same payment pool. Various things like that. But it's more for if you are tweaking the POL/SEID linkage, activate/deactivating ID's and the like.

We can unlink the POL ID from current SE ID? how ? I thought somewhere on SE account page says once you linked you can never unlink, if we can unlink and link to a new SE ID then it would be great because my SE EU Region sux.

[RAIST]

as mentioned a few posts back, you'll have to call them and verify you are the owner of the account---will need all the goodies like main content ID, first/last 4 of CC used to pay it, etc.. IDK if you can do it through chat or not though.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=160404&viewfull=1#post160404

Was also brought up in some posts on alla too.

[Alukat]

I understand the post was copied here by users who read from the FAQ thread, but just wanted to be sure to get a dev tracked post directly into the thread so anyone not reading the entire thread can follow the discussion.

We'll continue to update all the users best we can as we discuss the subject internally. We really do appreciate your patience and know that you are waiting eagerly for further replies.

I'll leave it at that for now and get back to you next when there is more information.

thx for response Hvinire.

How about doing a poll,instead of discussing this internally?

You could post all avaible options with all additional fee's coming with them.

Actually we don't know the reason why we can't pay you directly.
If you've done the 3rd party way because you don't want to charge us directly because this would cost us some extra transfer fees or whatever, then you could figure it out with a poll if we are willing to pay them or not.
just tell us please what it takes to make it possible, and let the decission if we are willing to accept the additional things coming with it by ourself.
This would be a good way for better customer service in the future, i think you should take the shot.

thx in advance.

with regards

Alukat.

[RAIST]

thx for response Hvinire.

How about doing a poll,instead of discussing this internally?

You could post all avaible options with all additional fee's coming with them.

Actually we don't know the reason why we can't pay you directly.
If you've done the 3rd party way because you don't want to charge us directly because this would cost us some extra transfer fees or whatever, then you could figure it out with a poll if we are willing to pay them or not.
just tell us please what it takes to make it possible, and let the decission if we are willing to accept the additional things coming with it by ourself.
This would be a good way for better customer service in the future, i think you should take the shot.

thx in advance.

with regards

Alukat.

I'll second that so we can send it to the floor for discussion.

/liked

[Tolby]

I just finished cancelling my ffxi services. The day a company thinks they can force me to use a third party to pay for their services is the same day they tell me they dont want my business. If I can't pay you directly, you wont get my business. This recent change in payment policy is a crippling business mistake and the sooner its realized the better to aleviate the frustration and confusion for yourself and customers not to mention the financial repercussions.

I cant speak for others but as for myself... I will no longer be playing FFXI untill there is a direct payment option or the old payment option is restored. To expand on that, I wouldnt even mind paying for crysta directly with my debit/credit card, however, forcing the third party even for that is just too scandelous and I won't put up with it as a customer for a service.

I'm sorry to see it end like this, hopefully a better option is offered after talks internally cause that seems to be my only hope at this point. :(

[RAIST]

they just billed my card while still on the old POL system, so I guess I'm good till the end of the month at least.

clock is ticking......

[Alukat]

thx for response Hvinire.

How about doing a poll,instead of discussing this internally?

You could post all avaible options with all additional fee's coming with them.

Actually we don't know the reason why we can't pay you directly.
If you've done the 3rd party way because you don't want to charge us directly because this would cost us some extra transfer fees or whatever, then you could figure it out with a poll if we are willing to pay them or not.
just tell us please what it takes to make it possible, and let the decission if we are willing to accept the additional things coming with it by ourself.
This would be a good way for better customer service in the future, i think you should take the shot.

thx in advance.

with regards

Alukat.

bump, everyone who's standing behide this idea, select "like it" please (at my original post 4 posts above this), to show SE that we are willing to figure out a solution.

[Rosina]

they reason is, we are not broke up in regions. Most mmo you pay directly even if it is say a korean mmo. Is because they have set up a seperate region. SE doesn't seperate the game into regrions.

POL was a somewhat third party. We all payed POL.

Also i would take what the reps said seriously. SE might have a special contract with click and buy they waves the extra fees, or SE pays for these fees.

Here is the thing, has anyone here used click and buy befor? How do you know they are crap, I wouldn't go by reviews as we do not know the full story. I say if you can/ need to switch to it. Try it out. Pay fo5r the game that way and check your statements. If you ARE charged that "hidded" fee then call SE and let them know.

For all you guys know C&B might not be so bad if you can use it. My b/f hasn't had any issue so far.

ps i'm not an Airhead. What is this elementry school?
can't say the same for most of you guys. Upset with out even trying something first.

[Rage]

Here is the thing, has anyone here used click and buy befor? How do you know they are crap,.

I used it and felt this company is terrible, created an account and tried to pay FFXI service with it, says offer not activated in your country of origin, played around with it, still no luck , got upset with it because no other options, so I closed the account, few days later I wanted to try again, so I created another account on C&B, it detected same credit card as my last account that I closed, so they blocked my account, I e-mailed them and they ask me to send them copy of bank statement or passport thru email, which is a NO from me, so i created another account with a different credit card from different country and tried again, still the same country problem error msg, so I called them and ask whats wrong with it, first call took me 22mins waiting on the line, the guy with very bad attitude keep saying "i dont know man there shouldnt be a problem" and ask me to verify my credit card which take me 5days for the "two amount of money" to show up on my bank records, after verify, still same problem, got pretty upset with it and called them again, 2nd time took 32mins holding on the line, and its a different guy answered my call this time, aslo very bad attitude, just 5mins into explaination and questions he felt annoyed and start blowing airs from his mouth that i can clearly hear and he told me gotta be quick my boss dont like me on a line for too long, wth?! what kind of service is this, not to mention the calls i made aint free calls so i spent some money waiting for 20~30mins and they wouldnt spend more than 8mins for customers.

I finally got my account unblocked after days and days of emailing because i dont feel like waiting on the line for so long and talk with their bad attitude operators, I still get the "this offer isnt activated for the country of your origin" problem, which means its not available in the country i am in and also in many other countries.

Just not happy with so much hassle setting up C&B or deal with their customer services, and alot of ppl cant use it in their countries.

[Revanchist]

they reason is, we are not broke up in regions. Most mmo you pay directly even if it is say a korean mmo. Is because they have set up a seperate region. SE doesn't seperate the game into regrions.

For FFXI, as I'm in Australia, my payment doesn't go to SE Japan... it goes to SE Europe and then to SE Japan. The same can also be said for US players (SE US to SE Japan) as well. So apart from that, and being initially two different format regions (NTSC and PAL) you're right I guess....


POL was a somewhat third party. We all payed POL.

Initially, PlayOnline was a subsite of SquareSoft.com and contained content such as online strategy guides and special sites for games published by Square (starting with Final Fantasy IX). It was introduced at the time of Final Fantasy IX's release, in which PlayOnline.com featured an online strategy guide that worked in conjunction with the printed version of the guide published by BradyGames. This subsite no longer exists, however. Square Enix integrated the site's features into their own site at Square-Enix.com, in order to put up a site for the U.S. release of Final Fantasy XI.

PlayOnline.com now links to the Japanese PlayOnline site, which contains links to individual game sites and explanations of PlayOnline features. The U.S. And European websites contain information solely on Final Fantasy XI and PlayOnline features.

In a way I'd guess you're correct in saying POL was a third party... but it was a third party CREATED and OWNED by it's parent company, Squaresoft (now known as Square Enix).


Also i would take what the reps said seriously. SE might have a special contract with click and buy they waves the extra fees, or SE pays for these fees.

More than likely Clickandbuy made SE an offer they couldn't refuse... which also makes me wary.


Here is the thing, has anyone here used click and buy befor? How do you know they are crap, I wouldn't go by reviews as we do not know the full story. I say if you can/ need to switch to it. Try it out. Pay fo5r the game that way and check your statements. If you ARE charged that "hidded" fee then call SE and let them know.

I haven't used C&B myself.... but after seeing the trouble my cousin went through via them, not likely to trust them. I did (however) tried setting up and C&B account last night (an act of desperation but also curiosity), and was asked to provide my passport/driver's license/power bill info. Sorry, but I don't supply that kind of info just to have a account to play a game, where the previous payment option worked.


For all you guys know C&B might not be so bad if you can use it. My b/f hasn't had any issue so far.

Then he's one of the lucky ones. Granted most of the 'hate and rage' against C&B may be contributed to people 'jumping on the bandwagon', however there is always a kernal of truth in all rumors etc. To say otherwise is rather foolish and naive. Nothing and no one is perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect company. They all have their faults, big or small.


ps i'm not an Airhead. What is this elementry school?
can't say the same for most of you guys. Upset with out even trying something first.

Elementary School/Primary School... same thing really. I have done my research and I do not like what I've found out about Clickandbuy at all. As I've said before (and more than likely will continue to say), PlayOnline had it's faults. I don't deny that, but it did work.

I've read some posts earlier in this thread (and others) about people saying how complicated navigating POL is, menu after menu after menu. Firstly, earlier RPG's were menu driven... menu after menu after menu. Even using a computer, is essentially the same thing... menu, after menu, after menu. If you've played a RPG or use a computer, navigating POL (after a initial run through) is fairly easy and straightforward, so I honestly don't know why some have complained about that.

[Maacha]

Upset with out even trying something first.

That's like saying we should trust the lost Nigerian Prince who just so happens to need your help transferring funds... I mean, you haven't tried it before, so it could be legit right?

[Aver]

That's like saying we should trust the lost Nigerian Prince who just so happens to need your help transferring funds... I mean, you haven't tried it before, so it could be legit right?

But he'll let you keep some of the money you help him transfer, surely it can't be that bad, right? Right??

[mistmonster]

That's like saying we should trust the lost Nigerian Prince who just so happens to need your help transferring funds... I mean, you haven't tried it before, so it could be legit right?

+1
Best laugh all morning reading this depressing thread. (depressed that my money after 7+ years is no good for SE anymore)

[Octaviane]

That's like saying we should trust the lost Nigerian Prince who just so happens to need your help transferring funds... I mean, you haven't tried it before, so it could be legit right?

Yes, it made me smile too, thanks for the good laugh. :)

[Pharaun]

Oh wow Maacha, I was trying to think of a good response to that line and you came up with something way better than I did, thanks for the great laugh.

Rosina, you are a giant tool, please stop posting in this thread since you are nothing but an SE apologist who blatantly ignores all the problems that people have with this new system.

[Octaviane]

@ Revan. I admire that you took the time to try and explain to Rosina (and in a nice way) the facts about how SE works, it's beginnings and the issues that people are having with the new payment options. Nicely done. :)

However, by Rosina's own admission, it doesn't matter to him/her whether it works or not because he/she has used their Dad's CC/DC to pay in the past and is now using a brother's CC or other form of payment to continue playing. Therefore, he/she has no first hand knowledge or understanding of very real concerns, especially with ClickandBuy. If using ClickandBuy causes a person's bank account to be flagged with suspicious activity and the account is then frozen, that is a cause for concern I would say. If having to supply ClickandBuy with copies of sensitive documents in some cases like Driver's Licenses, passports, birth certificates is not a red flag, I don't know what is and if Rosina cannot see and acknowledge that, there is no hope.

Paypal does work and I am happy to say that my dear real life friend made the transfer without issue using this method. Again though, Paypal is also not available in all countries/regions.

Raist has made some excellent posts here and provided his own research/findings on the subject. Rosina, you would do well to read and learn from them.

[xfreeplay]

i saw a crown on thread thought maybe some new development, /sadface nothings changed

[Octaviane]

At least they have responded, however vague at the moment. I am sure SE is huddled around a conference table wondering what they can do to repair the damage, which really won't be known in it's entirety until Sept 1st unless they change current options to pay before then. Let's give them a bit of time, however, the clock is ticking............................

[Dragoy]

Meh.


One of my accounts went fine with the old system still, as I expected, but for some reason or another my other account did not, even though the card is still good and there is money on the bank account. It has done this before; I just had to re-enter the same card number again and it would work, but now it forced me to use the new system to pay for it (linked, but not yet transferred that account to the SqEX Account), and the fee was 10.33 €UR...
So yeah, have to buy at least 15 €UR worth of Crystanonsense to even access that PlayOnline account, and the re-activation fees and other fun, which are now higher since I used to be able to pay in USD. This also means I have to buy it for 5 €UR first, then for 10 €UR, or alternatively, for 20 €UR worth.

To make things even more fun, the bank account I have set up for FFXI and occasionally for some other payments, does not have +20 €UR after the other account got billed JUST FINE, it only has +16 €UR.

This is SO convenient and user-friendly indeed.
Thank you SQUARE ENIX! (That is sarcasm by the way, which I do not oft use...)


So I decided I will bite it and see what becomes of. I can indeed use PayPal via UltimatePay rather OK, though it takes a while to make the Crystanse appear, and I also noticed I could use Nordea via MoneyBookers, too, but I didn't bother trying that, at least not yet.

Okay so now (I saw it coming), I had to transfer that account to be able to use the service again, even though it clearly said I will be able to use the service again after I have paid what they wanted me to pay.
I can't remember if it actually mentioned the game, so alright, if it was just talking about PlayOnline...

I would feel tricked if I didn't know better.

Since the 10.33 €UR was for July (not exactly sure why they would bill me for that in now, instead of the beginning of the month, perhaps they just felt like double-billing me), I now need at least +1200 Crstfa more to re-activate one of the characters on that account. This means I need to buy at least 10 €UR worth more, or 10+5 if I want all the few characters activated.

It just so happens to be that the certain bank account now doesn't have enough money (it would have if they didn't charge July fee for the other account AFTER JULY, which I was not part of my plan when I was counting the money), I need to transfer more to it and it will take usually 3 business days from bank to another, so yeah, even though SQUARE ENIX told me that I would be able to access the service again after paying the fees, I will be unable to use it for a few days, at least (again, if it just meant PlayOnline, yeah...)


Few all in all pointers in short: I am not really bothered by using 3rd parties for the payment, as a European, I am rather used to them I guess in general (ClipandDye I wont use because of personal experiences with it; difficulties with verifying an account mainly so no, I am not one of them calling it a scam as I have no reason to really except for how they charge you for verifying the account but many do this, PayPal included as far as I remember).

Furthermore, it was not nice to force the transferral already since the way it was worded, to me at least, it seemed like it would be mandatory only AFTER August was done with.

Okay so PayPal via UltimatePay works for me, Nordea via MoneyBookers would probably as well, but 'Crysta' is simply nonsense and far from user-friendly. It really needs to be made available in amounts we customers desire to buy it, and since it seems a part of the user-base already can do this, it is mind-boggling as to why we can not.
Unacceptable; most would likely say.

And yes, a lot of these inconveniences that I have written about, are not because of SqEX really, but because of how I have been doing things (which by the way worked just fine for many years with the old system).


I think if it's not the fear, principle, prejudice or/and whatnots against 3rd party companies, it's quite obvious that the biggest problem is 'Crysta', which we can not buy in amounts we want.

Looking forward for swift measures to satisfy this need, in a way or another.


But I think I went already for too long, just thought to share my experiences from just now, even though not completely about ClickandBye alone (actually unintentional typo this time :S).

Blubb!

[Hioki]

Used UltimatePay and Paid with Paypal. Besides not being able to buy Crysta in exact amounts(5, 10, 20 but no 15?) I think this is easily a better work around if you don't want to use Clicknbuy. Why not use this option instead?

[Revanchist]

Used UltimatePay and Paid with Paypal. Besides not being able to buy Crysta in exact amounts(5, 10, 20 but no 15?) I think this is easily a better work around if you don't want to use Clicknbuy. Why not use this option instead?

While that is a option, there are some countries where Crysta isn't available, due to legal reasons. There are probably some who don't have a Paypal account, have had bad dealings etc or just don't like doing anything with money online which is understandable (look at what happened with Sony not so long ago... a few of my friends were burned in that fiasco).

For some players, payment directly by debit/credit card is a more easier option for them and they may want to continue with that method, instead of dealing with Crysta or prepaid gamer cards etc. Speaking for myself, I don't think it's fair for those gamers to be penalised for not going along with what's now available, when the payment method they've been using for the last 10 years has worked just fine.

@Octaviane : I've seen how fiery some threads can get on many other forums. Some go looking for trouble specifically as they 'get off' on seeing how many people respond negatively. To do so, in this case towards Rosina or anyone else, won't serve any purpose at all... except maybe get the moderators to close this thread. We, the gamers, have a right to know what's going on, and if there's anything which can be done... and for SE to remain close lipped like they have means one of a few things...

A: They don't care, which I doubt. If that was the case, the amount of revenue which they could conceivably lose over this decision could be rather substantial, and for a company where it's only steady influx of revenue is this game, I don't think they'd be that stupid.

B: They didn't think it'd cause as much backlash as it obviously has (up to 69 pages and over 680 posts so far... and it's only been a few days since this was announced. That'd send a sign to SE, that's somethings gone wrong and we, the consumer, want answers).

C: They're looking into rectifying the situation, but don't want to say anything yet until they have something more concrete to offer (as what the two moderators (Robert "Hvinire" Peeler and Matt "Bayohne" Hilton have already stated).

28 days til the end of the month... still plenty of time for something to be done about this.

[Dragoy]

28 days til the end of the month... still plenty of time for something to be done about this.
Though it would seem that if, for a reason or another, there is a problem with the payment via the old system, even if the card is OK and the money is there and it just worked for another account and would normally work after merely re-entering the card-number, you would then be forced into using the new system already.


I do not know if this goes for accounts not linked to a SqEX Account yet, but I just had it happen to me, with the POL Accounts linked already back when the Satchel came about.

[Sp1cyryan]

I honestly don't have any hope for SE anymore. They rather make us work for something we pay for and just cut their losses with whoever walks away while saving money on their end on transaction fees.

Please prove me wrong SE.

That thread would have been in the thousands of dollars, and was almost to one thousand after only a few days.

[Rosina]

You guys need to stop making up stuff about me, misunderstand what i'm saying, or twist what I'm saying.

First off I payed for ffxi using my dads credit union debit card. The credit unuin bank cept screwing up where to put my money and about 4 years ago every month I had a "payment" issue. I paid 3 mnths in advance to make sure I had money. And because I was only working part time. My boyfriend steped in and paid for my account, after dealing wuth the issue for 1/2 a year.

Second, I do know how credit cards work. And if their fraudulent charges your credit can take a hit. But now adays most CC companiex have fraud protection and are not liable for ID theft. It is also perrty easy to cancle and set up new credit cards. (my old jobs I noticed people having a good 10 CCs)

third because of the above, this is why I do not personaly have a credit or debit card. I perfer playing mmo with time cards or point cards of some kind so I'm not freely putting my personal info in the system.

[Rosina]

part 2

Secondly, there is no reason to be insultive to me. I did nothing to you guys. If your upset over A thread I made. That is your fault for for not misunderstanding why I wrote it. I am not attacking anyone. I just feel you guys can go about this in a better way. Instead of looking like a bunch of children. They are no longer going to use playonline. They are phasing this out and only using it as a launcher. The payment change is just part of this.

If you look up the transfer, you should have noticed once the transfer is complete. You lose the ability to use the playonline friendslist.
In recent years they have been slowly shutting down playonline features. Or no longer updating them. I'm also not talking about the website but the playonline on the ps2/360 or when you launch the ffxi client.

There is no need to take your anger out on people also. I personaly do not care at the monent. I need to use click and buy for the moment If something happens I will notify SE which is the proper way,

[Sp1cyryan]

I wanted in on the emerging billing signature trend. So I took a few minutes to make one. Now I can make a statement about it with out having to constantly post the same talking points.

[Yinnyth]

Used UltimatePay and Paid with Paypal. Besides not being able to buy Crysta in exact amounts(5, 10, 20 but no 15?) I think this is easily a better work around if you don't want to use Clicknbuy. Why not use this option instead?

Well first of all, that's a ton of extra steps for me to go through, and I'd have to repeatedly remember to go buy more crysta everytime I start running out. I got a credit card for convenience. I don't have to go to the bank every week and withdraw cash, and I can buy stuff off the internet quickly (provided I'm willing to trust the company with my information). In order to do this, I would have to:

1. Get a paypal account.
2. Write down my paypal information in a secure location.
3. Log in to paypal.
4. Use paypal to buy crysta from SE.
5. Use crysta to pay my monthly fee.
6. Repeat steps 3-5.

Suddenly my credit card doesn't seem nearly as convenient. The whole system is inefficient and infuriating. Take my damn money and shut up. I hate the stupid "money in the bucket" systems that companies have been going with lately. Refer to this penny arcade comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/

What's even more retarded is that if you have leftover money in the bucket, you don't get to take it back. That money just stays in the bucket.

[Rosina]

I wanted in on the emerging billing signature trend. So I took a few minutes to make one. Now I can make a statement about it with out having to constantly post the same talking points.

you know most of that siggy is infact BS.

they are getting rid of Playonline. And mostly only going to use it as a launcher. they are not just changing the billing just to change the billing. They are making all our Paylonine accounts into Square enix accounts. The change of billing is something that goes along with this change.

If you guys to a rage break. You would actually realize a few stuff. The appologist as you guys rudely call them are actually being the logical ones here. First off. the better buiness guys are not a great source anymore. Pretty much as my b/f put it. You can buy an A=+ from them. Second, take what you read online with a grain of salt. It may not be true. Third, not all bad reviews are a source for truth. We do not know exactly what happen between the the 2.

[Kojo]

I wanted in on the emerging billing signature trend. So I took a few minutes to make one. Now I can make a statement about it with out having to constantly post the same talking points.

le wild rage comic appears.

[Rosina]

@ yin you just made it harder on yourself doing that. you can just get the ultimate pay card. You also can buy enougfh to cover you for several months. So no need to worry. Try using the system before making a compaint. Some of the logic you guys have about crysta is pretty laughable. Try asking people who KNOW how to use said system. Or have used similar systems. Also taking the lazy way, isn't really the safe way.

[Sp1cyryan]

you know most of that siggy is infact BS.

they are getting rid of Playonline. And mostly only going to use it as a launcher. they are not just changing the billing just to change the billing. They are making all our Paylonine accounts into Square enix accounts. The change of billing is something that goes along with this change.

If you guys to a rage break. You would actually realize a few stuff. The appologist as you guys rudely call them are actually being the logical ones here. First off. the better buiness guys are not a great source anymore. Pretty much as my b/f put it. You can buy an A=+ from them. Second, take what you read online with a grain of salt. It may not be true. Third, not all bad reviews are a source for truth. We do not know exactly what happen between the the 2.

Clearly we are all the illogical ones. Clearly C&B has not asked a multiple people for bank statements. Clearly C&B has worked well. Clearly over paying monthly via crysta is justified.

If they take billing off of PO then clearly it is only a launcher. Why are you acting like we don't know this?

The only thing clear about your post is that you are silly.

[Romanova]

I like how people are reporting everywhere about their issues, and Rosina still thinks "since it didn't happen to me, the system must be fine!"

And we're the illogical ones?

lol

[Kojo]

Clearly we are all the illogical ones. Clearly C&B has not asked a multiple people for bank statements. Clearly C&B has worked well. Clearly over paying monthly via crysta is justified.

If they take billing off of PO then clearly it is only a launcher. Why are you acting like we don't know this?

The only thing clear about your post is that you are silly.

I don't have anything against Rosina, but she lost me when she adamantly argued that you could still pay directly to SE with CC and then argued that it was "directly" to se VIA CnB....

[Sp1cyryan]

I don't have anything against Rosina, but she lost me when she adamantly argued that you could still pay directly to SE with CC and then argued that it was "directly" to se VIA CnB....

I don't have anything against them either, but they are being foolish.

Inb4 they finally transfer and have a problem like the countless others who are having problems with this fiasco.

[Neika]

I like how people are reporting everywhere about their issues, and Rosina still thinks "since it didn't happen to me, the system must be fine!"

And we're the illogical ones?

lol

I also like the fact that he/she just ignores the fact that NOT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THE GAME CARDS OR THE WHOLE CRYSTA SYSTEM. Just because you have no issues doesn't mean that no one else does, and those who do have issues have a right to voice them without being told that they don't know what they're talking about, etc.

[mistmonster]

Suddenly my credit card doesn't seem nearly as convenient. The whole system is inefficient and infuriating. Take my damn money and shut up. I hate the stupid "money in the bucket" systems that companies have been going with lately. Refer to this penny arcade comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02/

What's even more retarded is that if you have leftover money in the bucket, you don't get to take it back. That money just stays in the bucket.

That penny arcade comment is priceless except the SE version would require at least 5 panes.

[RAIST]

@Rosina

<pull out the soap box>

I really should quote your recent posts, as you can simply go back to edit them to correct some errors you get called on (which you have done btw, and no that is not an empty acusation...you actively did it in a thread you started, and even openly admitted to doing it in that thread...but, there is no proof of that I guess, even though it is on the record)....but there is just too much to go through and address point by point, so I am just going to generalize.

You continually provide grossly misinformed posts. I don't know why. I don't know if it is because you have some twisted motivation for it, or you simply aren't fully reading what other's have posted before your, or you are simply lacking in reading comprehension. You lash out at people for lashing out, and then go to other threads and complain that people lash out at you for lashing out. Yes, this has happened, and I'm not going to point you to the threads so you can go back and edit them out...but it is there, and has happened. Some of us have put extensive efforts into researching the information we post. Sometimes we get challeneged on our findings and try to have an honest debate. If we are proven wrong, then fine...we were wrong, admit it, and let the record stand. We don't go back and edit previous posts to cover it up. I would point you to my extensive postings trying to demonstrate just what is wrong with the Crysta system, which you claimed had errors with the math, but never even bothered to point out the error--so, I went back and broke it down. In one post, I got called on a mistake in a chart (simple because of a brain-fart, and it was a non-issue as it auto corrected itself on the nexst line and had no impact on the final result, which was the oint of the demonstration). I admitted the error, and did not correct it as the forum stands as valid enough record of the error and the correction.

In short, your posts receive so much opposition because of a few key factors:

They are misinformed or otherwise just flat out WRONG and need to be corrected.
You indirectly challenge/insult others with no justification, and if you felt there was justification, you don't support it.
You flat out refuse to accept when you have been countered, and in the eye's of many have a somewhat childish reaction to it (reference the second point), which has simply exhausted everyone to the point no one is inclined to take you seriously at this point.

So, if you want your posts to be respected a little more...I would strongly advise you to take some deep breaths, actually read the posts and do some research on the things you know little about (even read the info a few times if it isn't sinking in right away), and generally just clean up your act.


Edit:
Oh, and if you are offended by this post, I apologize... but, you did actually bring this on yourself with your challenge...I'm just trying to provide a honest, informed response:

You guys need to stop making up stuff about me, misunderstand what i'm saying, or twist what I'm saying.

[Sp1cyryan]

Raist really puts effort into his posts.

[Firesped]

I think the intent of the Crysta system was so people who would like to pay ahead, could. Once you buy the crysta, the account would auto deduct from the crysta in the account each month.

[Kojo]

Raist really puts effort into his posts.

Yeah, if I had that much to type out I just wouldn't post...

[Niyariko]

I think the intent of the Crysta system was so people who would like to pay ahead, could. Once you buy the crysta, the account would auto deduct from the crysta in the account each month.

I don't think thats the reason, if so, our Japanese friends wouldn't be having the option to directly pay SE instead of being forced to use crysta or CnB to buy crysta.

[Seyrena]

Hi. Testimony here. Click and Buy worked just fine for me, only it takes 10 minutes for the page to load through Square Enix's account management page. I have since had no problems with Click and Buy, but I recognize that others are, and my distrust of the company has increased to the point at which I would like Square Enix to revise and reform their payment options as quickly as possible so that I can immediately and forever end my patronage of Click and Buy. I would like to once again be able to pay Square Enix directly as I did through PlayOnline.

[Devrom]

we are not only forced to give our cc info to some third party (and apparently shady) company for automated payments but now players with EU SE IDs are also forced to pay about 1.4 times more at current exchange rate just because we had to get an EU SE account for one reason or another. 13 euros for 1 character while NA SE ID players pay 13 us dollars? or if we go the crysta route; 1 euro for 100 crysta while NAs pay 1 us dollars? really? REALLY? it is almost like SE thinks that EU players are all so rich that they wouldn't even care about the difference (which is huge for most people)? is it really so hard to get our money in the same currency? the exchange fees we would pay is nothing compared to this....scam.

sorry but we are not some cows to milk. why would i pay a lot more than i should? we are simply being overcharged to compensate their financial losses as much as possible even if it would only cover a very small part (better than nothing eh?) but they are just shooting at their own feet. trying to cover their failure with ffxiv with even more failure in ffxi. just to give an example; they made people buy crysta for xiv and crysta expires in 2 years, god know when xiv stops being free. what about the interest of said money lying idle in a crysta account? or now in ffxi technically i have to buy 15 crysta for every month and 2 euros worth of crysta carries over everytime till i can pay for another month after 7 months but who knows i will be still playing after 7 months?

in short, we are being screwed from whatever angle you are looking at it. i am sure some ignorant fools will laugh at me for this rage but this is needed to push some common sense into their heads.

[RAIST]

Yeah, if I had that much to type out I just wouldn't post...

If people would simply do a little research, actually read and digest what others have posted, and wouldn't go around claiming people are wrong when they clearly are right... then I wouldn't need to be so thorough in my posts, now would I.

Case in point, on the Crysta debaters...I think EVERYONE should read this quick post. I think it will provide some much needed clarity:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=7#329

[Fearforever]

we are not only forced to give our cc info to some third party (and apparently shady) company for automated payments but now players with EU SE IDs are also forced to pay about 1.4 times more at current exchange rate just because we had to get an EU SE account for one reason or another. 13 euros for 1 character while NA SE ID players pay 13 us dollars? or if we go the crysta route; 1 euro for 100 crysta while NAs pay 1 us dollars? really? REALLY? it is almost like SE thinks that EU players are all so rich that they wouldn't even care about the difference (which is huge for most people)? is it really so hard to get our money in the same currency? the exchange fees we would pay is nothing compared to this....scam.

sorry but we are not some cows to milk. why would i pay a lot more than i should? we are simply being overcharged to compensate their financial losses as much as possible even if it would only cover a very small part (better than nothing eh?) but they are just shooting at their own feet. trying to cover their failure with ffxiv with even more failure in ffxi. just to give an example; they made people buy crysta for xiv and crysta expires in 2 years, god know when xiv stops being free. what about the interest of said money lying idle in a crysta account? or now in ffxi technically i have to buy 15 crysta for every month and 2 euros worth of crysta carries over everytime till i can pay for another month after 7 months but who knows i will be still playing after 7 months?

in short, we are being screwed from whatever angle you are looking at it. i am sure some ignorant fools will laugh at me for this rage but this is needed to push some common sense into their heads.

I pay in GBP (£) and am annoyed at the price costs also, US players pay the cheapest rate for FFXI while EU players are made to pay more

[Devrom]

Case in point, on the Crysta debaters...I think EVERYONE should read this quick post. I think it will provide some much needed clarity:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1311755124317849273&h=50&p=7#329

in a nutshell; all your crysta are belong to us. oh and we can ban you for being inactive for over "a" year without prior notification because it is too hard to keep your account information in the depths of our server machines ^.^

btw i don't know if that user agreement is up to date and this web page is outdated but according to this; [ http://www.square-enix.com/eu/en/account/crysta/charge.html ] crysta do expire in 2 years while that agreement from the first link says they dont unless SE shutdown the service (and of course without any refunds or transfer or w/e).

[RAIST]

Yeah.. your looking at one for the EU region, so probably plays by slightly different rules.

That post on alla is pointing to the NA version of the Square Enix Account System.

I found the current US one just now by going to the SE Account Management System main page, clicking the "Service Agreement" link at the bottom, then clicking the link for "SQUARE ENIX ACCOUNT TERMS OF USE". At quick glance, it appears to be the same document (or says the same thing rather):

http://account.square-enix.com/agreement/us/#

(g) No Cash Refunds
Except as required by law, Registered Users have no right to receive a cash refund for unused Crysta.
If a third party obtains access to a Square Enix Account by use of a Registered Users’ Square Enix ID and password, the Registered User must notify SQUARE ENIX immediately in order to be eligible for any possible remedial action by SQUARE ENIX. SQUARE ENIX will investigate any claim of a compromised Square Enix Account and, in its sole discretion, may add some Crysta to the balance if the third party depleted the Square Enix Account without authorization. SQUARE ENIX will not add Crysta if the Registered User did not take appropriate steps to protect a Square Enix ID and password from third parties, including members of the Registered User’s household.
(h) Expiration of Crysta and Termination of the Crysta System
Except as set forth in Section 4(b), Crysta do not expire, but SQUARE ENIX reserves the right to alter or terminate the Crysta System at any time without notice. In other words, Registered Users may redeem Crysta for as long as SQUARE ENIX chooses to make Crysta redeemable for products and services, which SQUARE ENIX has no obligation to do. Accordingly, we encourage Registered Users to redeem Crysta sooner rather than later.
(i) Improper Acquisition/Usage of Crysta
Registered User agrees that SQUARE ENIX has the absolute right to manage and regulate the Crysta System in its sole discretion. If SQUARE ENIX suspects any fraudulent, abusive or unlawful activity with respect to a Registered User’s Crysta balance, then SQUARE ENIX may reduce or liquidate the Registered Users’ Crysta balance, or deactivate, suspend or terminate access thereto.
(j) Termination of Square Enix Account
If a Registered User (a) is banned for any reason, including violation of the Agreement, or (b) voluntarily terminates the Registered User’s Square Enix Account, SQUARE ENIX reserves the right to delete the Square Enix Account and all Crysta permanently.
(k) Changes to the Crysta System
SQUARE ENIX reserves the right to change the way that the Crysta System operates, or to terminate the Crysta System altogether, at any time, in its sole discretion, without notice. Any such changes shall take effect immediately upon posting of the change.
(l) Crysta and Virtual Goods Waiver
BY ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT OR USE OF THE CRYSTA SYSTEM, REGISTERED USERS AGREE NOT TO ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST SQUARE ENIX, ITS AFFILIATES, ITS BACK-END SERVICE PROVIDER, OR THEIR EMPLOYEES, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO CRYSTA OR THE CRYSTA SYSTEM, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY CLAIM WHICH IS BASED ON A THEORY THAT REGISTERED USERS "OWN" CRYSTA OR ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN ANY GAME OR SERVICE OFFERED BY SQUARE ENIX OR ITS AFFILIATES, OR THAT REGISTERED USERS LOST THE "VALUE" OF VIRTUAL GOODS OR CRYSTA AS A RESULT OF CRYSTA DELETION OR ACCOUNT TERMINATION BY SQUARE ENIX, OR FOR ANY MODIFICATIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF CRYSTA REQUIRED TO ACCESS CERTAIN GOODS OR SERVICES, OR THE REMOVAL OF ACCESS TO ANY GOODS/SERVICES, OR FOR ANY MALFUNCTIONS AND/OR "BUGS" IN SQUARE ENIX’S GOODS AND SERVICES, INCLUDING THE CRYSTA SYSTEM.
(m) Issuance of Crysta
SQUARE ENIX will be the sole issuing authority for Crysta in the United States and Canada and Crysta purchased from SQUARE ENIX may only be redeemed by Registered Users for the purchase of products and/or online services offered by SQUARE ENIX and no other affiliate of SQUARE ENIX.

4. Cancellations or Termination
Upon termination by you or upon notice of termination by SQUARE ENIX you must immediately cease all use of the Service. (a) Cancellation by You
You may cancel your registration to the Services at any time by providing the necessary information to Square Enix and following the procedures here. Upon SQUARE ENIX's receipt of your cancellation request, including the necessary and complete information required by SQUARE ENIX, your Square Enix Account will be terminated within a reasonable period of time. Upon cancellation of your Registration, any information in your Square Enix Account will be deleted and may not be recoverable. However, SQUARE ENIX reserves the right to maintain your account information for our records for a period of time, including payment history.
(b) Termination by SQUARE ENIX
SQUARE ENIX reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Website or Services at any time, or to terminate your registration for any or no reason, with or without prior notice. SQUARE ENIX will not be responsible for any losses, damages, claims and/or actions of any kind, either directly or indirectly related to or arising from the restriction, suspension, or termination of access to the Website or Services.
A Registered User may automatically lose access to their Square Enix Account without prior notification if SQUARE ENIX determines the Registered User has (i) been inactive for over one (1) year; (ii) failed to pay applicable fees or charges; or (iii) engaged in any of the "Prohibited Uses" outlined below. In such a case (iii), SQUARE ENIX may also deny a Registered User future use of the Website or Services in its sole discretion.

[Kojo]

Just saying, Raist, I don't wanna have to type it, I'm glad you did.

[Revanchist]

@Rosina: I wasn't trying to be insulting or verbally abusive towards you. Just stating my own observations/research I've made. You have stated quite often which method of payment you are using, and that's fine. If that works for you, go for it.

Like I said, as a family member had bad dealings with Clickandbuy, and the amount of information I was asked to provide myself, there is no way I'll do such a thing or have any dealings with this company. Add in that Crysta isn't legally accepted in ALL countries yet. As RAIST and others have quoted...


*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.

For example, Australian gamers can't purchase Crysta by any of the means SE has available, as it hasn't been legally approved as a viable payment method. Should Australian gamers be penalised by not being able to play the game, due to SE not ensuring that Crysta is available here (or for that matter, in all countries) before forcing this change of payment?

Also, the ultimate gamer cards aren't available here either, though I will admit a game store I go to (and explained this situation) are looking into seeing IF they can import them. If they can, that's great... but if they can't, same outcome as above.

Once again, I find myself not just agreeing, but praising RAIST for the research he/she has made into the validity of extending the direct debit/payment via credit/debit card directly to SE. He/she has explained in length, that the groundwork for a direct payment system is setup as the Japanese players can still use this option, as well as Crysta and the game cards. Why shouldn't the rest of the world be allowed the same courtesy?

Some may say how it opens SE up to possible lawsuits for stolen funds etc... when a simple solution to that would be to authorise all direct debits you have and have a set amount set aside in your account for those payments to come from. When my wage goes into my account, I have authorised my bank to set aside some of the funds for payment only to the companies I have informed the bank to authorise direct payment from. All that, can take about a minute to two minutes to set up, and you're done.

Rosina, please understand, I'm not 'attacking you' or anything like that. I'm trying to explain to you how some of the gamer base are affected by this, and in some cases, honestly don't know what to do. Is it so hard to understand this?

[Neika]

Off topic:
I thought that RAIST actually left for a while because of the whole character linking thing on the forums. Glad to you see you're back RAIST.

On topic:
SE please bring back direct payments via credit/debit cards please, these new payment options are horrible for the simple fact that they cannot be used in all regions. It's really not cool to have the door slammed in my face after 6 years of paying for this game with no issues. Not a great way to ensure your customers stay with you and pick up other games you make.

[ceown]

So TL;DR translation:

You can't sue them for any corrections should they screw up billing. Any crysta you bought isn't actually owned by you (hence the failure to get it vetted in some countries.)

Oh and if you don't use your account for a year you may (almost certainly will) lose your account and anything (including crysta\virtual goods) tied to it.

[RAIST]

@Neika
Nah... had to take a break. Things were getting a bit intense with online and r/l dramas and some debates were getting a bit rowdy. I had to take a step back before I went all A-Pimp-Named-Slickback on someone who really didn't deserve it.

The mandatory character data still doesn't sit too well with me. If this is all they do with it, it's fine I guess. Still doesn't make anyone's posts more or less credible because they're showing a job level. Kinda a pointless feature for them to spend time implementing when there have been more important issues on the table--like maybe fully researching the consequences of what they've done with this payment debaucle.

/sigh

[JiltedValkyrie]

Guess SE not letting me use my MasterCard anymore (re-entering my info trick didn't work) and now this made my decision to go back to PSU solid. I'll just play that until PSO2 comes out in Japan.

[FrankReynolds]

I Just want to sign on to the petition. This has caused my 8 year old JP account to be cancelled. this is crap.

[Tamoa]

@Rosina:



third because of the above, this is why I do not personaly have a credit or debit card. I perfer playing mmo with time cards or point cards of some kind so I'm not freely putting my personal info in the system.

Guess what. Some of us don't have any other option if we want to keep playing FFXI, than using our credit cards via ClickAndBuy, meaning we have to "put our personal info in the system"! Why is that so damn hard for you to understand?


First off. the better buiness guys are not a great source anymore. Pretty much as my b/f put it. You can buy an A=+ from them.

And how does your boyfriend know that you can buy an A from BBB? Oh let me guess, he read it online somewhere, didn't he.

If he did, you are countering your own point here:


Second, take what you read online with a grain of salt. It may not be true. Third, not all bad reviews are a source for truth. We do not know exactly what happen between the the 2.

My comment to this: No smoke without a fire.


@Rosina

You lash out at people for lashing out, and then go to other threads and complain that people lash out at you for lashing out.

---------------

In short, your posts receive so much opposition because of a few key factors:

They are misinformed or otherwise just flat out WRONG and need to be corrected.
You indirectly challenge/insult others with no justification, and if you felt there was justification, you don't support it.
You flat out refuse to accept when you have been countered, and in the eye's of many have a somewhat childish reaction to it (reference the second point), which has simply exhausted everyone to the point no one is inclined to take you seriously at this point.



You should read through this really slowly and carefully, and take it to heart.

[Jackastheripper]

You should all just come play rift. I did. No billing problems here! (sorry I couldn't help myself ROFL!)

[RAIST]

You should all just come play rift. I did. No billing problems here! (sorry I couldn't help myself ROFL!)

hehe... funny you should mention that.. a group in LS was talking about that last night--some even considering upgrading to play it.

[Octaviane]

One thing I am glad to see is that not too many people lashed out at Matt and Robert (Mods) when they posted here. I felt like they were sent in here as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter................>.< Not their fault the bigwigs couldn't run a brothel in a red light district.

[Taruzard]

I just used Crysta because my email address is somehow linked to a clickandbuy account already, and i've only just heard of them. XD
They need to let people use atleast UltimatePay for it, it was alot easier, could pay with Paypal which I use for other things.
On the subject of Rift, I tried it and couldnt get into it. (i was playing WoW at the time, too. It felt too much like wow to me), I'm waiting on Guild Wars 2 to come out. Can't wait for it xD

[Alukat]

One thing I am glad to see is that not too many people lashed out at Matt and Robert (Mods) when they posted here. I felt like they were sent in here as sacrificial lambs to the slaughter................>.< Not their fault the bigwigs couldn't run a brothel in a red light district.

we know that it isn't their fault, that's why we don't slaughter them ;)

anyway, my best ffxi buddy and i are playing hellgate global untill SE changed the payment options, its for free :D

[Ravenmore]

The BBB can be bought, dummy comapnies were set up and went from C ratings to As. Along with they don't really vet thier members a buy here pay here lot were I live was a member and had a B rating after being fined for saw dust in the values and banana peels in a transmissin.

That being said C&B is so shady another shady agency can't over look how shady C&B is. That should speak worlds how bad they are.

I will be using game cards to pay. I won't be losing much .05 cents + 7% sales tax(don't like handing out my card number to start) a month 2 mules plus main. I feel for those that have to choose between a not playing or giving thier how banking history and unlocking thier cards every month and still not be able to play.

[Alukat]

I will be using game cards to pay.

lucky you, seems like these aren't avaible here :(

[Taruzard]

Dont think we get em in the uk either xD

[RAIST]

Yeah.. think I read earlier someone was talking to a game store about importing them. I think there may be some virtual property rights issue with AU that some companies just don't want to deal with--like S. Korea has precedence mandating that virtual property be treated as real property and compensation must be made if loss is incured.

and wb Alukat. we could use a little cleanup in the tag section...think only the OP or a mod can delete them.

[Alukat]

thx :)

cleaning 725 posts? wanna kill me? xD

[Ravenmore]

lucky you, seems like these aren't avaible here :(

I even pointed that out in my post that it sucks for those that can't or they will take over a year to break even. Don't take it out on me dip I on your side.

[RAIST]

thx :)

cleaning 725 posts? wanna kill me? xD

lol.. wouldn't wish that on that on my worst enemy.

talking about the tags at the bottom of the page. There is an add/edit tags button that allows you to uncheck tags to remove them. It will only let responders add tags. OP should be able to remove them.

[Aver]

...couldn't run a brothel in a red light district.

This is beautiful, completely backs everything I feel about FFXI's management and will be sigged.

Thank you.

[Niyariko]

One of my LS friend is having problem with CnB even after successfully setting up before Aug payment. :confused::confused:

So SE couldn't take the money from CnB ....



From: autoinfo_us@account.square-enix.com
Date: 3 August, 2011 6:11:51 PM GMT+08:00
To: ******@gmail.com
Subject: [Square Enix Account] Notification Regarding Issues with Billing

Square Enix Account Management System
http://account.square-enix.com/
-------------------------------------------------------

Dear ******,

Thank you for using the Square Enix Account Management System.

Due to a processing error with your payment method, all continuous options for the following service account have been cancelled. The details are as follows.

Date: 08/03/2011
Payment Method: Credit Card/Debit Card
Service Account Name: PlayOnline / FINAL FANTASY XI
-------------------------------------------------------

To reactivate automatically continuous options, please select "Reactivate" from the relevant service account's Options List.

If you did not request this e-mail, please direct all inquiries to the Square Enix Support Center.
This e-mail has been sent automatically. Any e-mails sent to this address will not be answered.

-------------------------------------------------------
For inquiries regarding products and services, please visit the Square Enix Support Center.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/main.php?la=1&id=496
-------------------------------------------------------


SE has really fu*ked up this time. :(
How can we play if we can't pay!?

[Deschel]

I just got finished reading through the whole thread because I have absolutely nothing better to do with my time. This is quite the fiasco! After reviewing CnB I will never trust them with my money, and I am still not sure about using Crysta. Like so many others in this thread I just want direct payment back. It'd be a shame to quit over something so simple and trivial, especially when the Japanese players don't have to worry about it at all! :(

[Neika]

All I can say for those of us who are not happy with these new payment options is to just not use them. Yes, you will no longer be able to play, but using a payment method you are not happy about will not tell SE anything, as they are still getting your money and that's all they care about. Maybe a couple months of much-lower-than-usual income will change their minds and get us direct payments back.

[Maacha]

All I can say for those of us who are not happy with these new payment options is to just not use them. Yes, you will no longer be able to play, but using a payment method you are not happy about will not tell SE anything, as they are still getting your money and that's all they care about. Maybe a couple months of much-lower-than-usual income will change their minds and get us direct payments back.

They have already lost $20 a month for my mule account, and will lose $40 a month more when my other 2 accounts get cancelled. I hope they come to their senses before Aug 31st comes around and give us more options. Wish they hadn't nuked the "How much money will SE lose" thread, it'd be over 2k now I bet.

[Runespider]

I've said it before but really the most shocking part of this and things in the past is that Square are hoping to be a multi MMO company and make profits doing that, they can't even keep a addicted/loyal playerbase happy on one MMO. They have no idea wtf they are doing, their grand ideas are going to fall down around them.

Amateurs.

[Ashael]

ClickandBuy, no thanks. Could they not go with at least a reputable third party company? Paypal at least? I can understand if their information is showing they are losing significant amounts of money due to chargebacks. But criminy, there are far better methods than choosing a company that has the reputation of a crappy poorly run outfit.

[Qeepel]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inappropriate tags. The same goes for inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Thank you.

SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

[Kojo]

Qeepel still works as a GM? O.O

[Neika]

Lol everytime I mention the transfer thing in my linkshell, there is always at least one person who is like "wtf you talking about?". There are going to be alot of surprised and then angry people come September 1st.

[Kojo]

Lol everytime I mention the transfer thing in my linkshell, there is always at least one person who is like "wtf you talking about?". There are going to be alot of surprised and then angry people come September 1st.

I quit mentioning it because I'm tired of explaining it. Plus there's one guy in my LS who, like Korpg, doesn't have to worry about it so he sees it as many people blowing things out of proportion.

[Runespider]

I do find it kinda amusing threating account banning when quite a large portion of people won't be able to log in anyway very soon lol

Don't get banned, you won't be able to pay for the service to log in anway but don't get banned!

[Alukat]

I do find it kinda amusing threating account banning when quite a large portion of people won't be able to log in anyway very soon lol

Don't get banned, you won't be able to pay for the service to log in anway but don't get banned!

this made my day lol

[Niyariko]

one of my ls friend had set up SEID and ClicknBuy, but then he couldn't login now, there is something wrong with SE getting his payment from CnB. He spent 3+ hrs trying to figure whats wrong, and still can't make it to work.

I was afraid this will happen to me also, so I decide not to transfer until the very last moment when SE offers direct payment with Credit Card thru SEAM.

[Yinnyth]

Lol everytime I mention the transfer thing in my linkshell, there is always at least one person who is like "wtf you talking about?". There are going to be alot of surprised and then angry people come September 1st.

I was talking with my friends ingame about this, and they had no idea they actually had to do something in order to keep their account. They thought that SE was only requiring every player to have a SE account linked to their POL account in order to continue playing, and they all already had a SE account, so they thought they were good. The change-over has been explained very poorly. So poorly, in fact, that it is mostly up to players who are in the know to spread the word to everyone else (top notch work there, do we get a commission fee for that?)

More infurating still is we see no explanations as to why. Why does SE need to take billing off POL? Why are we unable to pay SE directly in a manner similar to how we paid POL directly for the past 8 years? Why are they using ClickandBuy in the first place? Why are they even using third-party pay programs; don't they lose a portion of the money in doing that?

[Kojo]

I was talking with my friends ingame about this, and they had no idea they actually had to do something in order to keep their account. They thought that SE was only requiring every player to have a SE account linked to their POL account in order to continue playing, and they all already had a SE account, so they thought they were good. The change-over has been explained very poorly. So poorly, in fact, that it is mostly up to players who are in the know to spread the word to everyone else (top notch work there, do we get a commission fee for that?)

More infurating still is we see no explanations as to why. Why does SE need to take billing off POL? Why are we unable to pay SE directly in a manner similar to how we paid POL directly for the past 8 years? Why are they using ClickandBuy in the first place? Why are they even using third-party pay programs; don't they lose a portion of the money in doing that?

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why JP players have it better than NA and EU.

[Neika]

It was very poorly explained. The one guy in my ls today was like "I already have a SE account, I've had it for almost a year, I'm good!" It also doesn't help that they put the notice about it in where they usually have the RMT warning when you log in, and most ppl now just skip it without reading it.

[Oddwaffle]

Today I tried to log in but I can't cause I don't have any content ID cause I transferred them and didn't really add anything to the SE account. I guess this is where I'm going to stay until I get another more reasonable payment option from SE.

[Selamis]

So I still haven't transferred my accounts and wasn't planning to until later this month, checked my bank statement and was billed twice the normal amount of what I should be. It's even four dollars more than last month, when I had my normal fee and then the added cost of Heroes of Abyssea that I bought. Come on SE, get your head in the game and fix this. Currently in que with chat support to see if they plan on refunding this... at least last month the charges were legit, not this month.

[Kalilla]

So frustrating :\

My account is fine but my boyfriends account is stuck with July's fees of 13.95, but there is no way to pay for them. We can't account transfer until we pay the fees....

Where is the solution here SE? I've contacted support 4 times, two of the 4 times they dropped me before it was my turn to talk to someone. Both times I talked to the same person, you really only have 1-2 people working?

I've asked to talk to a supervisor, but apparently they are all too busy to talk to me. I can't get any estimated time until the solution is resolved, and I'm pretty sure if I try to submit another ticket I'll just get perma ignored.

All your staff is doing is telling people hundreds of people are experiencing the same issue your having with being unable to pay last months fees. And that there is no solution atm and no estimated time when it will be available. In fact, you proceed to tell me that your not able to reveal that information. What, is it some secret that you'd loose money off of if you told me? Just say you don't have the answer to that instead of giving me some BS excuse as to why you forced us into this mess without any solution.

I've even bought enough crysta to cover the July fee's and this month's payment. Why won't you take the crysta/money and do your job by letting me play since I've paid you!

And if you know there are hundreds of players unable to play because of your new system, why force them to keep waiting while you figure out a reasonable solution? Why not just move those fee's to next month. And why when I ask your support team to ask a supervisor to do this for me they refuse? When I've had that done in the past for my account, your suddenly unable to do anything now?

Why rush through all the tickets when you KNOW your going to send 99% of them back into line, making your line even longer. You could of spent a few minutes with your customers, and work out a reasonable solution with them that allowed them to pay over the phone/chat, or move the fee's til next month. Instead you insist on moving through all the tickets as fast as possible with automated messages.

SE, you seriously need to meet the standards you met before in the past. You use to be one of the most popular companies in the gaming industry, but now look. You wont take care of your game or your customers, when all we are asking is for you to take our money so the problem goes away. Why don't you want our money? How hard could the problem possibly be? Just send out an update for POL so we can pay the late fee's and the problem will go away.

I think the online thing is a cool idea, but it isn't ready. You can't force your customers to use something that doesn't work. You are loosing thousands of dollars because of this. Just let us pay the late fee's so we can use the new system.

[Misi]

(posting this here too since maybe others ran into this problem)

Yeah, this is confusing. I've had my click and buy registered since 2010 and had all ready added Square Enix Account Management System, card verified, the works. it's listed in the easy collect section AND did the walk through by SE before the first of this month and got emails that verify the transfer on july 27th but I still have not been billed yet. What gives? Even on my bank statements it isn't listed as a pending or completed transaction. If it were the old method I would have been billed on the 1st of this month no problem.

anyone else have this problem/fixed it?

[Kelvena]

So frustrating :\

My account is fine but my boyfriends account is stuck with July's fees of 13.95, but there is no way to pay for them. We can't account transfer until we pay the fees....

Where is the solution here SE? I've contacted support 4 times, two of the 4 times they dropped me before it was my turn to talk to someone. Both times I talked to the same person, you really only have 1-2 people working?

I've asked to talk to a supervisor, but apparently they are all too busy to talk to me. I can't get any estimated time until the solution is resolved, and I'm pretty sure if I try to submit another ticket I'll just get perma ignored.

All your staff is doing is telling people hundreds of people are experiencing the same issue your having with being unable to pay last months fees. And that there is no solution atm and no estimated time when it will be available. In fact, you proceed to tell me that your not able to reveal that information. What, is it some secret that you'd loose money off of if you told me? Just say you don't have the answer to that instead of giving me some BS excuse as to why you forced us into this mess without any solution.

I've even bought enough crysta to cover the July fee's and this month's payment. Why won't you take the crysta/money and do your job by letting me play since I've paid you!

And if you know there are hundreds of players unable to play because of your new system, why force them to keep waiting while you figure out a reasonable solution? Why not just move those fee's to next month. And why when I ask your support team to ask a supervisor to do this for me they refuse? When I've had that done in the past for my account, your suddenly unable to do anything now?

Why rush through all the tickets when you KNOW your going to send 99% of them back into line, making your line even longer. You could of spent a few minutes with your customers, and work out a reasonable solution with them that allowed them to pay over the phone/chat, or move the fee's til next month. Instead you insist on moving through all the tickets as fast as possible with automated messages.

SE, you seriously need to meet the standards you met before in the past. You use to be one of the most popular companies in the gaming industry, but now look. You wont take care of your game or your customers, when all we are asking is for you to take our money so the problem goes away. Why don't you want our money? How hard could the problem possibly be? Just send out an update for POL so we can pay the late fee's and the problem will go away.

I think the online thing is a cool idea, but it isn't ready. You can't force your customers to use something that doesn't work. You are loosing thousands of dollars because of this. Just let us pay the late fee's so we can use the new system.

This.

My friend paid for 3000 crysta on his account but he cant even use them to pay for the overdue fees to reactivate his account. He gets an error which says to contact the support center.
But ofcourse the support center doesnt know the solution to their own problem.
This whole situation is just sad.
Wouldnt the first thing for a company this large to make it able to earn the money they want? Almost feels like they WANT to lose customers.