Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[Octaviane]

99 Cap will change nothing if there is no new content. At 90 content is already extremely easy. A 9 level increase will do nothing to change that except for make the game easier than it already is.

Point is, we don't even know for sure that the August version update will even happen as planned, it could be delayed, plus, there is no appreciable new content planned in the current road map.

[Muras]

Point is, we don't even know for sure that the August version update will even happen as planned, it could be delayed, plus, there is no appreciable new content planned in the current road map.

I think SE kinda secretly announced the next version update on the page that talks about the bonus wand you get if you do the POL transfer now:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/topics/special/110727.html


Distribution

The bonus item will be distributed in a version update scheduled for September or later.

* Further information to be provided as it becomes available.
* Schedule and other details subject to change.

Basically, it's happening in September at the earliest like many people assumed since the mini update happened in July instead of June.

[Zatias]

I wonder if you use the item to warp to the circuit, which entrance you will exit to. I mean, the area usually only allows you to exit the way you came in (i.e. Enter from south sandy, you can only exit to south sandy)

Since you came in via teleport, this has me confused.

This still sucks though, I wont be able to do any testing myself ^^;

[Karbuncle]

I wonder if you use the item to warp to the circuit, which entrance you will exit to. I mean, the area usually only allows you to exit the way you came in (i.e. Enter from south sandy, you can only exit to south sandy)

Since you came in via teleport, this has me confused.

This still sucks though, I wont be able to do any testing myself ^^;

It says somewhere in the actual Official information page of the item You'd have your choice of which area to exit.

I cant say where its listed though

[Octaviane]

I think SE kinda secretly announced the next version update on the page that talks about the bonus wand you get if you do the POL transfer now:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/topics/special/110727.html



Basically, it's happening in September at the earliest like many people assumed since the mini update happened in July instead of June.

Ya, thought so :)

[Byrth]

If every non-JP player quit, SE would maybe lose 20% of the playerbase? As it is, fewer than half of the NA players will actually quit, so maybe 10% of the playerbase?

Depending how much infrastructure they can get rid of by moving off their current payment servers and consolidating the system with FFXIV, it may make sense for them even with a high attrition rate. This could be especially true if you consider the short-term gains they'll have for the Q3 report when people load their accounts with several months worth of Crysta. It will briefly appear that the MMO division is doing excellently, even though subscription rates have dropped.

Long-term, it's bad for FFXI and everyone that plays it. If barely-players are paying full price while doing essentially nothing, they contribute to SE's profit. SE is going to focus on improving/expanding whatever is the most profitable. Killing off FFXI's population kills off its profit margin and reduces the effort they're willing to invest in maintaining it.

[Zatias]

It says somewhere in the actual Official information page of the item You'd have your choice of which area to exit.

I cant say where its listed though

Wow, that would be awesome since it exits to all 3 starter nations, Jeuno, AND Ahr Urghan! XD

[Unleashhell]

Talked to my LS for an hour or two on this whole thing. General census, the end of August will be most of our last days.

[Selzak]

I just find this 10min ago on a french FFXIV Forum, and its realy interesting about Click and Buy:



In short version and in English this mean:

-If your Original bank refuse a payement on a click and buy transaction you get 15€ + 7,5€ fee

-If you want to close your Click and Buy account its cost 15€ fee (Yeah but it was free to made it)

-If you dont use your Click and Buy account for more than 1 year you get 1€ fee per month then.

http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/terms-and-conditions.html
I'd like to hear more about this. If I'm suddenly forced into this to continue playing FFXI, then bye.

[Insaniac]

If every non-JP player quit, SE would maybe lose 20% of the playerbase?
I don't think JP actually make up 80% of subscribers do they?

[Byrth]

I don't think JP actually make up 80% of subscribers do they?

If we assume that afk mules/players from each region are proportional to the height of the graph at that region's primetime on this graph (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/index.html), I don't think it's unreasonable to claim JP players are 3/4 of the population. Minorities get shafted, news at 10.

[Jackastheripper]

I doubt as many people will quit as has been said here.


I don't know about that. I already got a bunch of friends who have left here to play Rift. With other MMO's coming out with a lot to offer and with as much crap as SE has put its loyal fans through the last year or so, I would say this could be the breaking point for quite a few. I know it is for me. If something doesn't change, Rift will be my new MMO. Star Wars Old Republic is looking great as well. With the 99 cap looming with nowhere to go from there (no new expansions and such) what's left?

[Eradius]

When is someone going to address our concerns?

Most people cannot use your system.
Some cannot even use Crysta like my friend in Australia.

You are completely screwing over the people who make it possible for all of YOU to have a PAYCHECK.

Its time to respond to our concerns. I promise you that this thread will top 100 pages by halfway through August. And people will only get angrier.

[Insaniac]

If we assume that afk mules/players from each region are proportional to the height of the graph at that region's primetime on this graph (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/index.html), I don't think it's unreasonable to claim JP players are 3/4 of the population. Minorities get shafted, news at 10.
That spike is at JP midnight EU prime and early morning NA. I think that has more to do with the overlap than the number of JP players. That's just when we are all awake. I can't Imagine JP making up much more than half the subscribers.

[Muse]

Its time to respond to our concerns. I promise you that this thread will top 100 pages by halfway through August. And people will only get angrier.

Considering this thread hit 27 pages in a day. I don't doubt this one bit.

[Rearden]

That spike is at JP midnight EU prime and early morning NA. I think that has more to do with the overlap than the number of JP players. That's just when we are all awake. I can't Imagine JP making up much more than half the subscribers.

I'd also say a larger number of NA players keep themselves logged in indefinitely.

[Danicolas]

After 8 years of playing this game, im being forced to quit, none of my CC works with C&B service and i wont set a PayPal account to add Crysta, it was a fun ride but I'm out.

[Halldir]

I refuse to pay clickandbuy.com. Shame on SE for preventing players to enjoy their services. Unless SE does something about this ie;

a) Make Crysta in the amounts required for monthly subscription, instead of their pre-defined amounts. And make it available for all countries.

b) Allow Direct Payment again via CC.

c) Drop clickandbuy like last weeks garbage and pick a reputable provider like paypal in which they can direct charge my CC.

Hopefully SE will get a clue instead of alienating their player base.

[Werewolf]

Yeah not liking Click and Buy for the only option to pay by Credit Card, is there some reason we have to use this service and Japan doesn't?

I had problems with Click and Buy when I signed up with Final Fantasy XIV, that was one of the major faults I had with that game and now it's on Final Fantasy XI... might be time to find another game.

[Selzak]

After 8 years of playing this game, im being forced to quit, none of my CC works with C&B service and i wont set a PayPal account to add Crysta, it was a fun ride but I'm out.
The longer this goes neglected and left in silence, the more this is going to happen.

We can talk made-up numbers all day, but I guarantee that this ridiculous, unnecessary, untrustworthy, and inconvenient change is going to produce a significant number of dropped subscriptions. Sadly, knowing SE, we probably won't see a real response until this takes effect in a couple of months and they see just how devastating of a mistake they've made.

It seriously feels like Square-Enix has been a sinking ship for the better part of the last ten years, and that they're so out-of-touch now that they seem to be purposefully sabotaging what little successes they have left to lean on. Not only can they not make an acceptable game anymore, but they can't even keep themselves from ruining what they have left.

[Dragoy]

a) Make Crysta in the amounts required for monthly subscription, instead of their pre-defined amounts. And make it available for all countries.
They say that: "Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved."
So it is probably not something they can just 'do', and if they could, I think it would be available everywhere, and anywhere already.

I would rather not have to deal with this Crysta nonsense at all, personally, and hope that things will get better, and soon.

[Jukor]

Click&Buy got me a text message from American Express about possible fraud that I have NEVER seen in the 7 years I've been an AmEx user back when I was signing up to try FFXIV, which ended quickly. The transfer to this made me change my 2 POL accounts to Crysta and promptly deactivate them as I'm too lazy and quite frankly uninterested in remembering to pump Crysta into my account via PayPal. Unless SE decides to implement a proper way to continue to use either my debit card or any other card (support more than VISA and MasterCard, please!) I'm going to go back into retirement until 99 cap or later.

[Dreaubaut]

I just dont see the logic in forceing this change on ppl when we been paying directly for so long it makes no sence, If they came out and said this wus to weed out PS2 users to give next gen and PC users better content for there money id have no issues with paying the fee's but sadly many ppl dont have the option to even use crysta in there regions as it is and with all the thread in this post without even a single response from any Dev at all i think they will keep supporting this new service to the bitter end

[Dragoy]

For those waiting for an official response: It takes time, as it is a big change, and they surely expected a lot of disgruntled customers to voice their opinions. They have to read it all, and put together answers that would satisfy as many questions as possible while catering as many customer's needs as possible at the same time.

They unfortunately do not have the time to answer to each individual question, as far as I can imagine.

It's still early, patience is a virtue, some say...
We will have some answers, eventually.

While waiting, voice your concerns as well as you can, and it will make their job easier. ^^

[Wagram]

Funny thing is that I made a Click and Buy account for FFXIV. I forgot my password so even if I wanted to (and I don't) I can't even switch it over. Good luck trying to charge my debit card C&B. It's expired and i'm not giving you my # so kiss my ass.

[Kintrra]

Thank you for the good times, FFXI. Thank you for the frustration with your services and ideals, SE.

I will not go through a third party system to play this game. I have stuck with it faithfully these many many years, even after I've been honest-to-god bored to death with it, because I was holding hope that it would pick up to the point it once was to me. Apparently, I'm never going to SEE that point again, because I REFUSE to deal with a third-party company, when you already obviously have the means to take care of the billing yourselves. I especially will not deal with a third-party company known for having such a horrible reputation. And your Crysta system is fine, for those who want stuff from outside the game. It's not an adequate system for those just wanting to play the game. Don't make us deal with a lame excuse of a currency system, just so you can squeeze the extra dollars from us by never using an amount that equals out to what we're paying.

Not the way I thought my time with this game would end, but there it is I guess. So be it.

[malf]

From a french user.

Looks like it will be soon my last day on this game. Never had to complain loudly about SE choice but this one looks like the weirdest choice to implement a change in the way of managing payment method. Looks like SE cant afford in term of time and money the implementation of a transparent PCI/DSS compliant payment management for their customers. Looks like an irrational decision where SE prefers to loose customers than a class action if credit card information are stolen.

If no change in your strategy, I'll quit due to the fact that I will not pay through your crappy payment methods, I don't want to register to another 3rd party company and I don't want to manually buy credits to play FFXI.

[Creelo]

Honestly, the REAL funny thing about all of this is that a TON of people that play FFXI don't even read these forums (or any FFXI-related forums for that matter). I'm sure these players aren't even thinking about transferring/registering their accounts atm.

I am also 100% sure that SE WILL lose out on a hefty amount of subscriptions due to the simple fact that most people won't even think to transfer their accounts by the time August 31st hits. When they realize they can't play FFXI anymore, they'll have to contend with some boggled-up system of getting their payment method back on track (What exactly was wrong with the system before?). Most will either give up or not even bother with it.

Honestly, this seems more like a purge than anything else lol A purge of a loyal player-base that, as it stands, will prove to be a grave mistake by SE.

[Dragoy]

It is quite a sad moment as I see many people 'seemingly' registering here, or posting for the first time, just for this.

It should not be like this!

I know that a lot of these users will not quit, or will be back eventually, but for the time being things are looking quite grim indeed!

I think during tomorrow, or the day after, a lot of our questions will be answered.
If nothing else, it is quite hard to depict what will come of this for the time being, for once.

I am interested to see it, though, while 'Distant Worlds' by 'The Black Mages' plays on~


I just started every line with an I, didn't I.


Edit:


Honestly, the REAL funny thing about all of this is that a TON of people that play FFXI don't even read these forums (or any FFXI-related forums for that matter). I'm sure these players aren't even thinking about transferring/registering their accounts atm.
I can confirm that most of the players in-game I know, and have conversed with recently, had no idea of this, and every-one-of-them had quitting as the first option in their mind.

I know some, or even most of them probably will not quit in the end, but yes, there are so many players who have no idea about this, sadly.

It is rather amazing if SqEX did not realise how big of an impact this kind of a change would have, but it is starting to seem like it.

[Niyariko]

I keep on reading from ppl saying "just use crysta, we are not forced to use click&bye". But thats the problem, there isn't any trouble-free method of auto-payment directly to SE.

I want direct auto-payment where I give SE my CC info and they will take care of the rest, enough said. I don't wanna go thru buying and transferring crysta every months nor managing another payment company such as clickandbye with my CC info.

This is extremely stupid.

[Wagram]

Honestly, the REAL funny thing about all of this is that a TON of people that play FFXI don't even read these forums (or any FFXI-related forums for that matter). I'm sure these players aren't even thinking about transferring/registering their accounts atm.

I am also 100% sure that SE WILL lose out on a hefty amount of subscriptions due to the simple fact that most people won't even think to transfer their accounts by the time August 31st hits. When they realize they can't play FFXI anymore, they'll have to contend with some boggled-up system of getting their payment method back on track (What exactly was wrong with the system before?). Most will either give up or not even bother with it.

Honestly, this seems more like a purge than anything else lol A purge of a loyal player-base that, as it stands, will prove to be a grave mistake by SE.

Just logged into my account to say goodbye to it basically as my sub was ending in a few days. I did a shout and more then 70% or so on Cerberus had no idea what I was talking about. Boy are they in for a surprise.

[Muse]

Just logged into my account to say goodbye to it basically as my sub was ending in a few days. I did a shout and more then 70% or so on Cerberus had no idea what I was talking about. Boy are they in for a surprise.

You should have done a /yell too while you were at it.

[Leonlionheart]

SE is going to have to make 95 cap SOMETHING FIERCE to get some subscriptions back from this crap

[slakyak]

You should have done a /yell too while you were at it.

Not much point, everyone would have left the filter on!

[Leonlionheart]

Not much point, everyone would have left the filter on!

That's gone now, you know...

[Runespider]

Square community reps please can you pass on how annoyed the customers are at this?

I pay for 5 accounts within my family/gf and all I and others want is to be able to pay you the money as I have for the last 6-7 years, without having to buy more than I need (crysta) or go through a 3rd party company that I don't trust. I like the current system where I don't have to think or worry about payment and as such even if I go on holiday or something I still pay.

With this new system you are making a lot of people unhappy and although you think you are going to make more money you will infact lose a lot due to the nature of MMO players, lazyness means many carry on subscribing for a long time even though they don't really get as much use out of the account...having to manually pay each and every month and know you are kinda being ripped off while doing is not condusive to a happy playerbase.

As said before it's one thing to have this on a new game like FFXIV, but it's unacceptable to treat a loyal playerbase this way after so many years.

If I have to pay with crysta then I want to be able to pay the exact amounts, ultimately though I want to be able to just play FFXI without having to constantly worry about payment so at best I would be like to carry on paying you direct with my CC as I have for many years.

For people that do quit over this, please remember how you were treated and don't ever play another Square MMO...they just don't deserve a loyal playerbase. The way they treat us here is how you will get treated on future MMOs so keep it in mind.

[xfreeplay]

already lost a few ppl i know to this new payment change gg SE.....


after this billing cycle im gone too screw that hassle its to much BS

[Maacha]

I am still in the process of verifying my husband's new PayPal account, hoping to be able to still pay using our Korean credit card without paying an extra 5.9% currency exchange fee from Click&Scam. If they won't accept the Korean CC, I'll use my own PayPal account and use my US credit card or bank account, even though transferring money to the US for it sucks balls and I can only do it about 2x a year...

Really, I'd be perfectly happy using PayPal for Crysta if I could set it up as a recurring automatic payment and for the exact amount needed... which is exactly what the JP are allowed to do.

[Chriscoffey]

I have 2 characters and my cousin has 5. If this seriously doesn't get changed we are done. I hate to leave but I have more things to worry about in my real life than chasing down a company to give them money only to be slapped in the face each time because we are not important to them anymore.

[Rojo]

You can add my two accounts to the list of future inactives if the payment options don't change. The reasons have been beaten to death in this thread already.

Seriously, wake up SE. At the very least do some research on a company you choose to do business with before forcing your customers to use it. You're hemorrhaging players as it is due to the age of the game and you wasted years of development capital on the colossal flop that is/was FFIV. Now you're making it more difficult for the people still willing to pay your bills to do just that by forcing them into business with a disreputable company?

What, did you hire the fiscal rejects that washed out of Wall Street in 2008 to be your business planners?

[Gotterdammerung]

This would make a hilarious comic strip, i wish i could draw.

Original payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: cool thanks.


3-d security Payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: K, um but first gimmie a dollar.

Me: Um, why?

SE: Dun worry I will give it right back.

Me: Huh?!

SE: ITS FER SECURTIY AND CONVIENANCE DUH!


New payment (Click and buy option)

Me: SE, i have your money.

SE: Oh, GOD. Don't pay me!

Me: What?

SE: Pay him and he will pay me.*points at shady guy*

Me: Ummm okaaay. Hey Mr., Will you give this money to SE for me?

Shady Guy: Yeh no problem, ... but its gonna cost ya.


New Payment (Crysta option)

Me: SE, I have your money.

SE: Okay, np, let's see... your total is $27.92

Me: =) here you go.

SE: Pay me $30 >.>

[Zatias]

This would make a hilarious comic strip, i wish i could draw.

Original payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: cool thanks.


3-d security Payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: K, um but first gimmie a dollar.

Me: Um, why?

SE: Dun worry I will give it right back.

Me: Huh?!

SE: ITS FER SECURTIY AND CONVIENANCE DUH!


New payment (Click and buy option)

Me: SE, i have your money.

SE: Oh, GOD. Don't pay me!

Me: What?

SE: Pay him and he will pay me.*points at shady guy*

Me: Ummm okaaay. Hey Mr., Will you give this money to SE for me?

Shady Guy: Yeh no problem, ... but its gonna cost ya.


New Payment (Crysta option)

Me: SE, I have your money.

SE: Okay, np, let's see... your total is $27.92

Me: =) here you go.

SE: Pay me $30.

Pretty much sums it up lol XD

[Dijana]

All these people complaining about crysta. As bad as it looks I still wish I had the option for THAT instead of clickandbuy the more I read about it over the day. I dont want to quit, I like this game and have alot of good friends on here. Heck I even met my fiance on here. But with clickandbuy as only option if that doesnt work or anything goes wrong with it at all, I know I certainly wont be hanging around for more. Its already bad enough I will be paying more through clickandbuy with conversion fees and such, than what I've been paying all along these last few years.

Man...I regret how we all complained about pol the last few years now.

[Eradius]

This would make a hilarious comic strip, i wish i could draw.

Original payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: cool thanks.


3-d security Payment

Me:Hey SE, i have your money.

SE: K, um but first gimmie a dollar.

Me: Um, why?

SE: Dun worry I will give it right back.

Me: Huh?!

SE: ITS FER SECURTIY AND CONVIENANCE DUH!


New payment (Click and buy option)

Me: SE, i have your money.

SE: Oh, GOD. Don't pay me!

Me: What?

SE: Pay him and he will pay me.*points at shady guy*

Me: Ummm okaaay. Hey Mr., Will you give this money to SE for me?

Shady Guy: Yeh no problem, ... but its gonna cost ya.


New Payment (Crysta option)

Me: SE, I have your money.

SE: Okay, np, let's see... your total is $27.92

Me: =) here you go.

SE: Pay me $30 >.>

Quoted for Truth.

SE. DO SOMETHING ALREADY.

We aren't going to quiet down, we will do everything it takes to make you fix your product for us. How -dare- you try and ask us to pay you in ways convenient for you.

Suck it up and give every nation access to paypal.
Suck it up and realize clickandbuy is the equivalent of handing money to a guy in a parka on a corner.
Suck it up and realize that if you make the same mistakes you did with 14, you'll lose us here as well.

You would do well to remember your colossal mistakes of the past.

[Ahrana]

For everyone quitting, can I have your stuff?

Seriously though, I'm not going to jump through hoops to play a MMO. My mule will expire at the end of the month, but I'll ride out my main character through August. If the push-back from NA/EU players doesn't convince them to change the payment model, I'll find another game to send $15 a month. The days of FFXI being a new, interesting, and innovative game have been over for years.

[Muse]

For everyone quitting, can I have your stuff?.

First you'll have to buy enough crysta or pay clickandscam to come get it.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I'm wondering how this player outrage compares to when they first implemented 3-D Secure.

I still haven't changed my payment system for FFXI, but I did buy an Ultimate Game Card and used it to throw 2000 Crysta onto my balance. As threatened, I gave them my pol.com email address, and so far I've gotten two emails from them, an acknowledgment and a general invitation to register wtih PlaySpan's website (probably not going to happen). As a teaser, they say they'll throw 100 of their own points at me for doing so, but there's no indication that those points can be converted to Crysta.

Personally, I'm not too broken up about having to carry a leftover balance of Crysta from month to month. I think I would be if I could see a time that I would quit the game (assuming I don't ragequit next month), but as it is it's just a minor inconvenience for me, paying $20 two months out of three rather than $13 month to month. The fact that I will almost always have something worthwhile to spend the Crysta on makes it different, in my eyes, from things like Live Points, which are only usable on one-time purchases.

And even if I did quit FFXI (or they shut down the game), the outstanding balance would only bother me if there truly was nothing else I'd want to spend Crysta on. FFXIV aside, S-E will be publishing other games. I could see myself dropping some leftover Crysta on a month of Wakfu, just to check it out. Hell, bring back TetraMaster for that matter.

Provided my email address doesn't start to get spammed by PlaySpan, my only real complaint would be S-E playing favorites and letting the Japanese market pay by Crysta without carrying over a balance.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I want direct auto-payment where I give SE my CC info and they will take care of the rest, enough said.

If they hold onto your billing information personally, they become liable if their database gets broken into.

Don't think S-E didn't see what happened to Sony.

[Leonlionheart]

If they hold onto your billing information personally, they become liable if their database gets broken into.

Don't think S-E didn't see what happened to Sony.

Don't think S-E didn't either

[Gotterdammerung]

I think SE confuses good customer service with "polite" customer service.

Good customer service is judged by functionality. Sometimes the best customer service is impersonal and professional.

I mean if you translate this whole "polite customer service= good customer service" farce into other aspects of life, its insanity becomes crystal clear.

Imagine your being robbed at gun point and you cry out

"Please don't take my money. I have 4 kids and i worked my butt off all week for this money."

And the robber said back to you

" I'm sorry good citizen. I understand how difficult it must be to have your hard earned money stolen, and i wish I could help you with this dilemma. But unfortunately, I have no plans to stop robbing you. Is there any other requests you would like to make? If not then please feel free to post your comments at this website."

And then proceeded to take ur money and shoot you.

In this scenario, the robber is polite, sure. But his attitude and demeanor didn't matter. Just like attitude and demeanor don't matter in issues of good customer support.

The only thing that matters is can you successfully solve issues between you and your customers in a FAIR way. And if you can't solve them, can you explain to your customers why they had to be this way.

[Vitrum]

Nothing new to say. Just adding my support to the thread against this insane policy. I have never seen a company go so far out of its way to enrage its customer base.

[Runespider]

I think they have some think-tank guy there that is trying to save them money, problem is he is a dumbass and isn't thinking out these grand schemes..or they just aren't following through properly. I don't mind them cutting some costs but if they are going to outsource and let otehrs take over billing lets have a little more effort put into it, pick a good company and let people pay the way they have been in the past..with a cc and recurring billing. Crysta needs to be redone too, exact payment amounts please.

Can a rep at least state they are passing this ragefest on and we will get an official comment on it soon? I don't think that's too much to expect is it, I woud like to know if Square are going to follow through with this "era of communication" and actually help it's customers out here, this is a big deal for almost everyone and we don't like it.

[Malacite]

I have had this game since Dec 2003, and this is by far the most egregious abuse to the playerbase I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing.

What the crap man? Why did you suddenly do this? Since I first started I have never had a single solitary issue with your billing system. I see the charge on my statement every month and pay it, no problems or questions asked. But now we have to dance through these ridiculous 3rd party hoops, and/or pay additional money every month because you do not allow direct denominations like SONY does for PSN.

Why even change it in the first place? To further phase out POL? It's not like you can just remove the game from the POL system, so why mess with the simple, direct billing that we are all accustomed to?


Now, I've given you the benefit of the doubt here and only paid $20 worth of crysta and only because Ultimate pay allows Paypal BUT I STILL DON'T LIKE IT ONE DAMNED BIT! The majority of the people I've spoken to on Bismark don't care for this one little bit either by the way.

So, unless your goal was to basically piss off the entire Western userbase and prematurely kill off your only money-making MMO at this point in time, well, it's been fun.

[Mahouko]

I Don't really know what to say anymore,
But i'm really upset, all of my best friends are quiting (thank you SE) and all going to other mmo's.
If you keep this way of paying please take in mind, that you'll lose a big chunk of the gamers you have right now
and all the others will follow soon enough (lets be fair when you can grind all your jobs to 99 in a blink of an eye and finish all your missions in a matter of weeks your people who will stay will get bored fast enough)

If i'm right with this and people do get bored easy enough then i give this game 2 maybe 3 more years?
Anyway i'll wait and see but if all my friends quit i'll have no use in staying i'm afraid

[Artemicion]

I think I'd sooner gouge my eyes out with a fork than give any of my information, let alone credit card information to shady, notoriously fraudulent, third party payment services. Paypal already makes me uneasy, and it gives me no comfort to see that the Better-Business-Bureau give ClickAndPay a lovely "F" rating along with lack of accreditation for their service.
I simply cannot understand why Square-Enix would blatantly alienate their player base with such poor business practices and decision making. Unless there is a way to directly purchase Crysta from Square-Enix or purchase time cards valid for Crysta from retail outlets, I see my 9 year dedication to Final Fantasy XI coming to an end unless things change quickly.

[ExeorRag]

I've never ever complained about anything SE messed up lately, but there's a first time for everything: This new payment system sucks bigtime!

Just friggin add a normal CC payment method or something and everybody's happy!

[Lotto]

Great job SE, I've had no problem with the billing system in 7 years and now this?

Well if they don't change anything I guess i'll finally find an excuse to quit.

[Xangel]

Well if we are going to petition for the current billing method to stay as opposed to what they are implementing shouldn't we do a more formal petition such as including a detailed reason why this petition is being drafted in the first place, what we, the players and paying customers, are asking and if they don't comply us quitting or not playing/paying anymore. I mean i never had any problem with the current billing method, only the july 2011 mess up but in all the years since the NA release in PC I never had any issues I don't know why they are doing this and making the players, their customers who make them money, so unhappy.

I don't see my self buying gamecards to pay for MMO. I don't know why i HAVE to agree to a 3rd pt to do the billing. This is crazy. I might not be eloquent(sp) as other people or understand much but i can understand when a company just simply does not care for its paying customer and how their actions reflect on them.

I will be willing to sign a petition and keep my word and not play until our conditions/demands have been met. It's time to stand up to them and let them know we don't want any more bad customer service, no more "their way or the highway".

In short, someone make a formal petition, reasons, what we are demanding and what action we will take if they don't comply, then have people reply with their char name/world instead of random back and forth if we want things to stay the same we need only to take action not just bitch about it.

Thank you and I hope that SE changes this as I will not be transferring my account at the end of Aug. 31, 2011 if I need to register through click and buy or any other 3rd pt, or buying gamecards or crysta(w/e) other than direct billing from SE.

[Xanaduu]

adding my support~ really pissed with this.... payment is really becomming too cumbersome to even want to imagine dealing with... id be better off joining my brother and mom in WoW, as mush as i ~love~ its graphics... still better than having to deal with all this ><

[Niyariko]

If they hold onto your billing information personally, they become liable if their database gets broken into.

Don't think S-E didn't see what happened to Sony.

Thats what credit card fraud protections are for, if SE are so afraid in taking responsibility in holding customer's info and billing people directly, I suggest they should shut their business down instead, that will be their safest way not to loose any more money from now on. :p

[Dijana]

adding my support~ really pissed with this.... payment is really becomming too cumbersome to even want to imagine dealing with... id be better off joining my brother and mom in WoW, as mush as i ~love~ its graphics... still better than having to deal with all this ><

Now there's an idea >_> despite I've had my account locked on WoW before for being hacked then used for some kind of chat spam, at least they were good enough to work with me and get my account back, which let me feel some trust in that company. Trust Im losing in SE (oh so dramatic~)

I just cancelled my wow sub a while ago since I could really only afford one mmo at the time and I decided to stick with ffxi. Starting to regret that choice now.

[Amador]

I rather just be able to buy Crysta directly through my Debit Card.

I don't want to have to pay more, for a bad system we're not even in control of other than supplying our information.

This is just going to cause more problems, and more monthly bans due to non payment. Unless we're suddenly no longer banning for non payment and simply suspending account till payment is made?

SE needs to touch on these subjects because right now, it's badly thought out with how they want to work it.

BTW, the Staff, really, sucks, it's horrible I mean really.

[Dew]

Crappy payment methods. At the point where its not worth putting in the effort to just pay them. They really don't want to make that money that badly that they put in retarded payment methods.

[Misi]

Severely disappointed. Last thing I want to worry about is if money I'm trying to give a corporation for a game goes through or not. You guys are going to lose a ton of money over this as well as loyal customers.

[Aequis]

Yeah, really don't like that we were effectively forced into this signing up. We had no prior notice of this (don't count people who used it in FFXIV - most didn't) and I'm pretty sure if we had, there'd have been some serious backlash. Seriously, I swear sometimes Square-Enix just try to make it as hard as damn possible to do the simplest things.

All I want to do is pay for my account and have it done quickly, securely and without hours trying to set things in motion. Don't understand why they couldn't just use PayPal - everyone knows it, and most people trust it. Guess we're going to have to see how this new thing works out, but I shall be keeping a close watch on my bank account in the coming months for any "irregular charges". Any dodgy transactions and I'll just cancel it and use Crysta (maybe this is SE's covert plan in the first place).

If you don't agree and sign up to Click & Buy, you cannot play the game whatsoever. Even if you've paid your £17.99 from Steam and such, set up your content ID and got passwords ready. It just acts as if the account doesn't exist until you set that all-important financial agreement up! Found that out yesterday when setting up a second account (you still have to use Click & Buy even though it's a trial period and effectively "free").

Also, Square-Enix, if you're reading these posts: Please update how to use the redeem code for the Destrier Berets. The one you have on Steam and such does not work, and actually forcibly logs us out of PoL whenever we try to use it. I do not see anything about redeem codes on the SE Account Management site. Some help would be fantastic...thanks.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

So I want to tell people, if you do the transfer now, it very much seems like you have to start with one of the new payment methods come august. In just a few days. So if you're trying to hold on, DO NOT do anything regarding the transfer until after the august billing cycle.

I've also seen people talking about purchacing crysta in incraments of 100. I do not know about otehr regions, but here in the US you cannot do this. The minimum you can buy is 500. Take note of this. The 100 was just SE's example of how it is 1 to 1 and not a fact that you could buy 100.

Not much point, everyone would have left the filter on!That's gone now, you know...Actualy it's still always on until you manualy turn it off yourself in teh first place.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

New payment (Click and buy option)

Me: SE, i have your money.

SE: Oh, GOD. Don't pay me!

Me: What?

SE: Pay him and he will pay me.*points at shady guy*

Me: Ummm okaaay. Hey Mr., Will you give this money to SE for me?

Shady Guy: Yeh no problem, ... but its gonna cost ya.You kow that this makes me think of? Tax dodging.

[Aequis]

It's actually really sad to see all of the posts from people who are quitting, through choice or just not being able to use the new system. I really don't get it. SE have effectively shot themselves in the foot with this - losing money from the MMO that's making them any profit whatsoever. *shrug*

Square-Enix, we need an official response on this matter. You need to acknowledge that a sizeable chunk of your userbase is unhappy at the "choices" (I use the term very loosely) you've laid down in front of them. Any information at all would be great, but in particular: why this happened, is there any hope it will be changed, and do you realise the knock-on effect of implementing this system?

[Niyariko]

...
Square Enix uses ClickandBuy.
Square Enix hits Customers for 1000 Crysta points of damage.
Customers uses Sneak Attack.
Customers readies Everyone's Grudge (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110104180924/ffxi/images/1/1b/Everyone%27s_Grudge.jpg).
Square Enix hits Customers for 500 Crysta points of damage.
Customers uses Everyone's Grudge (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110104180924/ffxi/images/1/1b/Everyone%27s_Grudge.jpg).
Square Enix takes 50% points of profit damage.
...

[Aleste]

I've never had a problem with the POL payment system..

I mean sure, the interface was clunky; there were times when it was a bit slow, but it was convenient to have it in the pre-loader to the game. Although, the annoyance subsides once you stuck in your details and it was just a matter of leaving it to automatically debit your account (at least until credit/debit card number changed).

Then they added the whole verified by visa thing, and ok, it was an extra 1-2 steps to go through, but I got the feeling that it was to help secured my transaction between my bank and SE. It was only an extra step, browsing a webpage and getting a confirmation, no big change there. Once that was done it wasn't any different from previously... just leaving it running until something changed.

And now they add in click+buy and I'll admit I'm not impressed... jumping through stupid hoops, signing up to a third party to pay SE money, with an interface that timed out on me twice when trying to put in my details.

The one thing that really annoys me currently is that I've had a look around and I can't quite seem to find any sort of recurring payment option... I like it when payment is done automatically, but it seems like the only option currently is to buy a stackload of crysta and let it dwindle out of the account. It's going to be a pain in the ass having to remember when my payment is due and logging in and buying it from a third party...

Seriously SE, loads of people hated the POL payment system, but it worked... why are you making it more and more difficult for us to give you money?

[DerianX]

3/4 of my LS didn't even realize about this. None of them were happy about it when I told them. One of them doesn't even have a computer, so they're kinda screwed.

Lots of people going to get login failures after Aug.31 I bet.

/facepalm

[Leonlionheart]

So I want to tell people, if you do the transfer now, it very much seems like you have to start with one of the new payment methods come august. In just a few days. So if you're trying to hold on, DO NOT do anything regarding the transfer until after the august billing cycle.

I've also seen people talking about purchacing crysta in incraments of 100. I do not know about otehr regions, but here in the US you cannot do this. The minimum you can buy is 500. Take note of this. The 100 was just SE's example of how it is 1 to 1 and not a fact that you could buy 100.Actualy it's still always on until you manualy turn it off yourself in teh first place.

The public should know this.

I guess I must've gotten into the habit of turning it on and didn't realize.

[Runespider]

Seriously SE, loads of people hated the POL payment system, but it worked... why are you making it more and more difficult for us to give you money?

To save themselves some money, most companies won't add things that annoy their userbase to save a few bucks. Square like to be unique.

[Kari]

So much QQ.
People do have the right to complain about ClickAndBuy being the only way to automatically pay via credit card though.
Personally I'm just taking the easy route of buying Crysta with PayPal and Game Cards.

Lol'd at all the people nobody has ever heard of QQing about how they're going to quit or did quit because of this.
Seriously? Lulz.

Hopefully SE finds alternate payment methods, for those in other countries and such who may have a problem with this.

[Ilax]

I'm sorry but i think you guy only focusing over the tiny inconvenient then anything else, SE offer to pay with paypal or Ultimate Game Card that you can buy from any walmart, Game stop etc...

Of course if you are using "ClickAndBuy" crappy EU compagny then you have to pay the dumb fee, if you go that way, i am sorry but you not smart.

Register a PayPal Account COST 0$, you can hook your bank account to Paypal and transfer $$ from bank to paypal, and there also 0 FEE for doing that.

Pay anything on the WEB with paypal never have any FEE.

You can buy 5$ Crysta and then 10$ Crysta if you wan, still 0 FEE from paypal for doing double trasaction. You don't have paypal account? Then use Ultimate Game Card, once again, 0 FEE when buying crysta.

Now let go back to old SE payment system:

You need Credit Card ( If you have BAD Credit record, no luck YOU CAN'T PLAY FFXI )
If your parent are too cocky to give they #CC to pay the game, then once again you screw.
If your CARD do not support the crappy 3D secure (witch seem the case for sooooo many people) then no luck also.
Other option was to beg a good friend, then is like a marriage and you have to refund him every month. (Annoying)

And what now? Visa, MasterCard, etc really charging 0 monthly FEE? Really, that would surprise me big time.

New payment system, WOW all those thing i listed go away finally. Bad Credit record? NP you still can hook Paypal account or buy a stupid Ultimate Game Card.

So really, if you think less people will play FFXI after this major change?

Once again: PAYPAL cost 0 monthly fee, 0 fee for transaction.

[Malamasala]

I think the most hilarious part is that by not giving us a "pay exact price" crysta option, in the future they'll have to add a "pay exactly the missing amount" crysta option, which will be harder than the exact amount way.

But this is SE we are talking about. They are going to read our complaints, steal our initial crysta investment, then give us a "pay exact price" option so we can never get that overpaid crysta back.

[Ilax]

I think the most hilarious part is that by not giving us a "pay exact price" crysta option, in the future they'll have to add a "pay exactly the missing amount" crysta option, which will be harder than the exact amount way.

But this is SE we are talking about. They are going to read our complaints, steal our initial crysta investment, then give us a "pay exact price" option so we can never get that overpaid crysta back.

Is 5$ max overpaid... just give it to "red cross" if you quit the game, so SE don't get it and you can sleep better jeez.

[Byrth]

NAs:
* Use ClickandBuy (shady 3P service) to pay directly, and if you want to pre-load multiple months there's a surcharge
* Buy Crysta using a variety of methods (including Paypal) and have monthly payments automatically deducted from your Crysta pool. Unable to buy exact amounts, and you have to go do it every month so your account doesn't deactivate.

JPs:
* Have the option of directly entering their credit card information and paying as they used to.
* Can buy Crysta in exact amounts.

SE, delay this change until you've actually done the work for it. I lost enough friends when you guys messed up billing LAST month. I don't need to lose more because you're *really* messing up billing this month.

[Karbuncle]

Would all be a bit more comforting if it wasn't already shown the JP Can buy exact Crysta and can still pay directly via Credit Card(Was it confirmed?)... Yah yah Minorities get shafted etc.

Either way, I talked to my brother (who actually is in charge of our SqEx Account), and he says he's easily set up ClickandBuy before... Hopefully he's this lucky for FFXI.

Moving on, rather is so much easier to drive to a store and get a Gamercard itself is irrelevant if you ask me, People are complaining because after 7 years of the same method. a method the massive majority of us have grown comfortable with and accepted, They're changing the system and forcing us to chose between a shady company, or overpaying a small bit per month (which eventually adds up to a free month with some change left over, assuming you don't get banned or are forced to quit early for whatever reason, like life? then you can just donate it! small comfort for people on tight budgets)

It was simply an unnecessary move on SE's part, and while I don't feel "THE SKY IS FALLING", i actually support those quitting. If they had kept the old method but added these two no one would be complaining, no one, its the mandatory shift and obvious (if you're not naive) reasoning/choices behind the two chosen methods.

[malf]

So I want to tell people, if you do the transfer now, it very much seems like you have to start with one of the new payment methods come august. In just a few days. So if you're trying to hold on, DO NOT do anything regarding the transfer until after the august billing cycle.
...

Too late, didn't thought I will have such payment issue ... I guess SE won't do anything about this. So I guess I'll go to my backup MMO eve online (paying with paypal).

[Ilax]

@Karbuncle, No one really know why SE make this change, all we know is they drop playonline as 3rd party billing system, instead they choose C&B, of course imo it was a bad choice, they could have choose Paypal instead, but maybe in japan/Eu etc C&B was more popular and the market is probably bigger over there, no matter the reason SE choose C&B as partner for they billing system, that don't mean in future SE wont add more option like PayPal. Just keep in mind back before when it was Playonline only, SE had no alternative for anyone that had NO CREDIT CARD, and that imo WAS A BIG INCOME fail for SE, just think about how much money they lost every month.

For the ban, i doubt you get ban because you have not enough crysta lol that would be totally ignorant from them, so imo the only thing that goign to happen is your account be deactivate like when your credit card expire, and you just need reload crysta and reactivate it, that take 5 min...

[Hyden]

So... anyone know what Paypal error 10417 is?... I can't even throw money at SE anymore... Never EVER had any issues with POL... just sayin

[Finuve]

dear SE, give us this, and all anger will end immediately

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/f/4/f467c8a952b5f0a3c14b5970db4c5609.jpg

[Aver]

dear SE, give us this, and all anger will end immediately

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/f/4/f467c8a952b5f0a3c14b5970db4c5609.jpg

Finally, some sense!

[Octaviane]

Would all be a bit more comforting if it wasn't already shown the JP Can buy exact Crysta and can still pay directly via Credit Card(Was it confirmed?)... Yah yah Minorities get shafted etc.

Either way, I talked to my brother (who actually is in charge of our SqEx Account), and he says he's easily set up ClickandBuy before... Hopefully he's this lucky for FFXI.

Moving on, rather is so much easier to drive to a store and get a Gamercard itself is irrelevant if you ask me, People are complaining because after 7 years of the same method. a method the massive majority of us have grown comfortable with and accepted, They're changing the system and forcing us to chose between a shady company, or overpaying a small bit per month (which eventually adds up to a free month with some change left over, assuming you don't get banned or are forced to quit early for whatever reason, like life? then you can just donate it! small comfort for people on tight budgets)

It was simply an unnecessary move on SE's part, and while I don't feel "THE SKY IS FALLING", i actually support those quitting. If they had kept the old method but added these two no one would be complaining, no one, its the mandatory shift and obvious (if you're not naive) reasoning/choices behind the two chosen methods.

Agreed, and I would like to see it confirmed that the JP playerbase can buy Crysta in exact amounts and/or continue to use their CC's. Can't flame them until it's confirmed.

I am hoping that SE is sitting down as we speak and taking note of this and other threads on the subject and realizing that they are making a huge mistake. Hope springs eternal,but I am not holding my breath for too long..........

[Kraggy]

So... anyone know what Paypal error 10417 is?.
Paypal does: https://cms.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=developer/e_howto_api_nvp_errorcodes

[Byrth]

Agreed, and I would like to see it confirmed that the JP playerbase can buy Crysta in exact amounts and/or continue to use their CC's. Can't flame them until it's confirmed.

I am hoping that SE is sitting down as we speak and taking note of this and other threads on the subject and realizing that they are making a huge mistake. Hope springs eternal,but I am not holding my breath for too long..........

Check the picture linked above your post. Also, allegedly they can buy in exact amounts by going through WebMoney and just putting in exactly how much they want. Someone posted a work-around for NA players (involving a JP hotel somehow?) on the BG forums, I think.

[Enoah35]

I have a JP account and I use Webmoney as payment since they won't accept Credit Cards printed outside japan. I have been using this method since 2008 (or whenever the 3D secure card thing was). In web money section there are options to buy crysta using Web Money starting from 500 - 10k and at the bottom there is an option to use up all the points remaining in your web money account. I would think this is what people are saying about paying exact crysta amount. Setting up the exact fee in webmoney then asking Squareenix's payment site to withdraw all the remaining points.

I for one cannot do this since Webmoney itself won't accept foreign Credit Cards. So I have to rely on third party shop who sells web money currency ranging from 2k-10k. Since both of my accounts are japanese I have no alternative but to use this method. Similar to Ultimatepay? So yeah in a way they can control the exact fee if you live in japan or have access to japanese credit card. I can make a screen shot to show this if you wish.

[Vivik]

24 hours since this thread was started and not even a "hey, we are looking into it" from a mod. You wont be getting my money on August 1st. Stay classy SE.

[Octaviane]

To save scrolling the above......

10417
Transaction cannot complete.
The transaction cannot complete successfully. Instruct the customer to use an alternative payment method.
Instruct the customer that PayPal is unable to process the payment and redisplay alternative payment methods with which the customer can pay.

[Niyariko]

I wanna get this straight, for a Canadian using Clickandbye...
i use to pay SE $14.91 each month with 2 mules
so...
$14.91 (to SE)
+5.9% (C&B currency exchange fee)
+3.9% (C&B by paying with CreditCard)

which adds up to $16.41 Canadian each month
$1.50 is going directly to C&B
Is my math correct?

And each year, i'll need to pay $18 extra to what I used to pay for a 9 years old game which i've invested aprox. $1500 (pc game disc, ps2 version and all expansions included) for the past 8 years already!?

[Octaviane]

Check the picture linked above your post. Also, allegedly they can buy in exact amounts by going through WebMoney and just putting in exactly how much they want. Someone posted a work-around for NA players (involving a JP hotel somehow?) on the BG forums, I think.



Ya I was posting at the time and didn't see it.

[Rage]

I am from New Zealand, about 5 years ago when I purchased the security token we had to register a SE account so we can link the security token onto it, I am from New Zealand so of course when I choose the region when creating SE account we choose EU&Other Regions since there were only NA JP and EU&Region 3 Options to choose so of course I chose EU&Other Regions, who knows it will hunt it us down now at that time? now I am screwed because the only option to make a payment in EU SE account is Click and Buy, NO Crysta available, NO direct debit credit card, No Paypal, and even worse, now everytime I try to transfer my POL account and when I get to the Click and Buy payment step it shows an error message says "Error This offer is not activated for your country of origin.", I searched on internet, no luck, so I made a phone call to Click and Buy in EU, waited for a good 20mins on the line until someone finally pick up, and the operator was in very bad manner, after 10mins of talking and explaining he told me I have to verified my credit card in my Click and Buy that they put 2 amount of US dollars and I have to put them onto the click and buy confirmation page, and the 2 amount of money will take 3~7days to appear on the invoice and he said if it still doesnt work it doesnt work thank you sir and hang up the phone. so if it doesnt work , to the EU SE account users that isnt in EU like me, totally had no choice, we only have an option to pay with click&buy which doesnt work and cant continue FFXI service.
P.S also tried my sis's credit card from Australia, appears to be same error message so i dont know whats wrong with it, friend from US didnt have to verfiy their credit card and could use right away and got their account transfer done in few mins. I also heard someone said some countries/banks dont even support Click and Buy I am not sure if thats true but maybe thats why i get the error message.

[Aver]

Check the picture linked above your post. Also, allegedly they can buy in exact amounts by going through WebMoney and just putting in exactly how much they want. Someone posted a work-around for NA players (involving a JP hotel somehow?) on the BG forums, I think.

This interests me. Got a link, or even a thread topic?

[Walsh]

It makes me sad but I think I'm done. Unless there is a direct payment method, which has worked for me since 2003. I don't want to deal with paypal, playspan, click and buy, or whatever. It sounds like a hassle, and maybe I don't understand it and it's easy or whatever, but I shouldn't have to. Is Crysta something that can be bought in a store like MS Points and PSN, or WoW cards? If it's like that maybe, but if I have to sign up for another damn internet service to use my other internet service, I'm done.

[Niyariko]

This interests me. Got a link, or even a thread topic?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=155872&viewfull=1#post155872

[Kraggy]

To save scrolling the above......

10417
Transaction cannot complete.
The transaction cannot complete successfully. Instruct the customer to use an alternative payment method.
Instruct the customer that PayPal is unable to process the payment and redisplay alternative payment methods with which the customer can pay.
Actually, if you HAD scrolled the page I provided the link to you'd have seen there are THREE possible causes listed, yours is but the first and not the most informative of the three.

These are the other two:


10417


Transaction cannot complete.


The transaction cannot complete successfully. Instruct the customer to use an alternative payment method.


Account not associated with a usable funding source

10417


Transaction cannot complete.


The transaction cannot complete successfully. Instruct the customer to use an alternative payment method.


Credit card or Billing Agreement is required to complete payment

[Kraggy]

Is Crysta something that can be bought in a store like MS Points and PSN, or WoW cards? If it's like that maybe, but if I have to sign up for another damn internet service to use my other internet service, I'm done.
Yes it is .. use PlaySpan, no 'sign up ' for anything.

[Walsh]

Yes it is .. use PlaySpan, no 'sign up ' for anything.

So playspan cards are something that I can pick up at my local walmart or gamestop and redeem for Crysta? I don't think i've ever seen them. Excuse me I'm ignorant of this stuff, I've used the same CC since the game came out here in the US and I've barely ever bothered with payment options except to change my exp date twice.

[Niyariko]

Yes it is .. use PlaySpan, no 'sign up ' for anything.

But thats like paying a company(paypal) to pay a company(PlaySpan) to pay for Crysta to pay for FFXI, and try doing that every months!? SE, just take my money, really, TAKE IT!
Can it get more complicated!?

[Kraggy]

So playspan cards are something that I can pick up at my local walmart or gamestop and redeem for Crysta? Excuse me I'm ignorant of this stuff, I've used the same CC since the game came out here in the US and I've barely ever bothered with payment options except to change my exp date twice.
Don't know what you mean by cards, I bought Crysta through UltimatePay's web site and SE credited my SE account, everything done on-line.

But then maybe it's regional, I'm in the EU, never seen 'time cards' here.

[kewitt]

http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Video-Games-Retail-Dealer/Square-Enix-Inc-in-El-Segundo-CA-13168063

Maybe it's time to take away there A+ rating.

[Byrth]

This interests me. Got a link, or even a thread topic?

Well, there's this:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106046-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Information-Page%286-27-2011%29?p=4716360&viewfull=1#post4716360

And this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11154-non-japanese-players-with-japanese-account-paying-with-webmoney?p=155153&viewfull=1#post155153

But I'm not sure there's an option on NA accounts to pay with WebMoney, and there probably isn't.

[Neisan_Quetz]

@Karbuncle, No one really know why SE make this change, all we know is they drop playonline as 3rd party billing system, instead they choose C&B, of course imo it was a bad choice, they could have choose Paypal instead, but maybe in japan/Eu etc C&B was more popular and the market is probably bigger over there, no matter the reason SE choose C&B as partner for they billing system, that don't mean in future SE wont add more option like PayPal. Just keep in mind back before when it was Playonline only, SE had no alternative for anyone that had NO CREDIT CARD, and that imo WAS A BIG INCOME fail for SE, just think about how much money they lost every month.

For the ban, i doubt you get ban because you have not enough crysta lol that would be totally ignorant from them, so imo the only thing that goign to happen is your account be deactivate like when your credit card expire, and you just need reload crysta and reactivate it, that take 5 min...

Further proof you don't know wtf you're talking about because you think Playonline is a 3rd party company.

[Aver]

Well, there's this:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106046-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Information-Page%286-27-2011%29?p=4716360&viewfull=1#post4716360

And this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11154-non-japanese-players-with-japanese-account-paying-with-webmoney?p=155153&viewfull=1#post155153

But I'm not sure there's an option on NA accounts to pay with WebMoney, and there probably isn't.

No, there isn't, I has a sad.

[Niyariko]

PlayOnline was developed, owned and run by Square Soft, which is now Square Enix...

http://youtu.be/_42la3foiCc


PlayOnline is an online gaming service created by Square Co. (now Square Enix), and is used as a hub for many of the online PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox 360 games the company publishes. Currently, the only game supported by the service is Final Fantasy XI. Games previously supported were Front Mission Online, Fantasy Earth: The Ring of Dominion, Tetra Master, and the Japanese releases of EverQuest II, Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII and JongHoLo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playonline

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Well if we are going to petition for the current billing method to stay as opposed to what they are implementing shouldn't we do a more formal petition such as (...)

Internet petitions: serious business.

[Defiledsickness]

over 24hours and no one has stolen my money! whats the difference in this site or any other site? i mean places like ebay or amazon could steal all your money but they dont. people could hack newegg.com but they only hack ps3. so im sure we're just as safe as ever.

they are probably TRYING to let go of FFXI as they wanted NEW games to be played. ya most new games suck, but that doesnt mean they intend for ff11 to be the only FF played in 10more years. idk if Crysta equates but i really hate buying stuff like that because of micros*** making me buy points and charging me up the a** for everything.

idk why SE put in the effort to change this stuff, but oh well. im not going to go play gears.

[Kraggy]

Further proof you don't know wtf you're talking about because you think Playonline is a 3rd party company.
While you're correct to point out he's wrong, in one sense he's not: POL didn't do the payment processing, they used a dedicated payment processor (whose identity as far as I know we don't know).

So, while we SEEMED to be paying SE directly (because as you say, SE owned POL), we weren't, they off-loaded the payment processing, the only difference is that we didn't know about it (or at least had no reason to need to know).

[malf]

Some constructive comments (though most comments were constructive in this thread, talking about money :)

Context french/EU account :
Recurring billing payment
payment method :
Click and buy
Comments :
For me a nonsense because (as previously said) it's a major change for a major party of the member (I guess). More transparent implementation (where everyone will be happier) could have been done.

Manual payment aka crysta
Payment method
click and buy
ultimate pay : paypal, paysafecard, ukach, moneybookers, ultimate game card
Comments : Needing to make tweeks to extend the duration of the game experience is deceptive (for me). People were used to play when they wanted, now you will have to choose if you want to continue or not. Technician implementation, dont know if customer experience team was involved in this kind of choice.

End comment : Hope that SE will take position about our comments.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Thats what credit card fraud protections are for,

And, again, credit card fraud protections are for customers, not merchants.

If your credit card is used fraudulently, your credit card issuer gives you back the money. Where does it come from? The merchant, who loses the money.

Accepting a fraudulent credit card payment is exactly the same as accepting counterfeit bills (a fraudulent cash payment). The merchant is out the entire value of the payment. It is exactly the same as having the merchandise stolen directly.

If merchants were protected in the way you seem to think they are, they'd have a fantastic incentive to commit the fraud themselves. And Sony wouldn't be stuck in a lawsuit with their insurance company.

[Nianny]

Hmm, I'm sorry if I'm missing it out but... where do I do the account transfer/look all these options out? Everytime I go to the information section of the english forums and click on the EU thread's link to do so, it keeps directing me to the japanese pages.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

But thats like paying a company(paypal) to pay a company(PlaySpan)

As opposed to paying a company (your bank) to pay a company (Visa/MasterCard).

It costs the merchant money to accept any form of payment that isn't cash or check (and realistically even checks come with a cost in the form of fraud). Period. End of story.

Credit card? Debit card? S-E will be lucky if they see $10 of that $12.95 you're "paying" them. Everyone who's singing the praises of PayPal, take a look at what it costs for you to accept a credit card payment.

Square-Enix is getting out of the business of accepting credit cards directly because it costs them too much money, both in the transaction fees as well as the cost of liability if they're the target of the next LulzSec attack. Going through a(nother) third-party shifts the responsibility for security to someone else as well as having the potential of lower payment processing fees thanks to aggregation. Think of it as an insurance policy and a warehouse shopping club membership in one.

As for PlaySpan and the "Ultimate Game Card," sure, Square-Enix could go through the hassle of printing up their own Crysta cards, with their own logo, etc, but that too comes with a cost: both the manufacture and distribution of the cards as well as the security costs of maintaining their own database for numbers on the card. Unless Square-Enix's online games becomem as big as iTunes, it is cheaper and seasier to let a third party deal with those headaches.

Why are things suddenly changing now? LulzSec and Sony. Why are the Japanese getting seemingly preferential treatment? I don't know, but considering how Japan's pro-business, anti-consumer legal system makes the US look like the EU, I'd wager it's because S-E is afforded more legal luxuries (protection against liability, ability to past certain costs directly onto the consumer, etc.) than they are outside Japan.

The proper thing to be doing here is complaining about the choice of third-party payment processor. Complaining that a third-party payment processor is needed to begin with simply demonstrates you have no idea how online commerce works.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Everytime I go to the information section of the english forums and click on the EU thread's link to do so, it keeps directing me to the japanese pages.

Are you currently in Japan?

Anyway, try going to your flavor of the playonline.com website. They appear to have added a big, red button towards the upper-left corner of the main Final Fantasy XI site.

[Nianny]

Are you currently in Japan?

Anyway, try going to your flavor of the playonline.com website. They appear to have added a big, red button towards the upper-left corner of the main Final Fantasy XI site.

No, I'm in Portugal which is why it makes no sense...
But that worked, thank you. :)

[xbobx]

"Square-Enix is getting out of the business of accepting credit cards directly because it costs them too much money, both in the transaction fees as well as the cost of liability if they're the target of the next LulzSec attack. Going through a(nother) third-party shifts the responsibility for security to someone else as well as having the potential of lower payment processing fees thanks to aggregation. Think of it as an insurance policy and a warehouse shopping club membership in one."

One flaw with your argument. SE was already using a third party for their billing.

[InsideOut]

I am quitting FFXI until they can offer me a payment method that does not have all these hidden fees like ClickandBuy. I am only posting the USA fees but the UK and EU added fees are crazy.

These are the USA hidden fees as according to ClickandBuy E-Money Account Terms of Use:
http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/terms-and-conditions.html


Correction Fee

This fee is payable if:
(a) We receive a fund transfer with insufficient information to allocate it to the correct beneficiary ClickandBuy Account; or
(b) In connection with a withdrawal request We receive wrong or incorrect payment details or the withdrawal fails or is impeded due to any reason (other than due to Our fault).
Charges:
UK users: 0.50 GBP
EU users: 0.50 EUR
US users: 0.50 USD

Currency Exchange Fee (everytime you buy currency)
Where We are required to exchange currency in order to process Your transactions, We will apply this fee to the amount of Your monetary value that is converted.
Charges:
5.9%

Withdrawal Handling Fee
This fee is applied each time You withdraw monetary value from Your Account up until the point it is terminated.
Charges:
UK users: 1.85 GBP
EU users: 1.85 EUR
US users: 2.75 USD

Dormant Account Maintenance Fee

This monthly fee is payable if:
a) Your Account is open but Dormant for 12 months and has monetary value in it; or
b) Your Account is closed and terminated but still has monetary value in it 12 months after the point of Account termination.

Charges:
UK users: 1.00 GBP per month
EU users: 1.00 EUR per month
US users: 1.50 USD per month

Subject Access Request Fee
Where You make a ‘subject access request’ for Personal Data under the Data Protection Act, We will charge You this fee for dealing with this request.


Charges:
UK users: 10 GBP per subject access request
EU users: 10 EUR per subject access request
US users: 10 USD per subject access request


FACK YOU ClickandBuy!
FACK YOU UltimatePay!
YOU'RE COOL Playonline!
FACK YOU SQUARE-ENIX!

I'm out!

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

One flaw with your argument. SE was already using a third party for their billing.

Correct: their credit card processor. However, as a merchant, dealing with credit cards sucks, both in terms of processing fees and liability. Adding another middle man (be it ClickandBuy or PayPal) gives the merchant the chance to lower both costs, as that new middle man can make things cheaper by way of concentration and volume.

In this case, because ClickandBuy doesn't handle only Square-Enix subscriptions, they're handling a lot more transactions, a bigger volume of money, which gives them more negotiating power with the credit card companies when it comes to credit card processing fees.

And, presumably, ClickandBuy has the technological and legal security measures that Sony lacked. Even if it doesn't save S-E money per transaction, they're still able to sleep better at night without worrying about the next high-profile hacker attack.

[Vivik]

I am quitting FFXI until they can offer me a payment method that does not have all these hidden fees like ClickandBuy. I am only posting the USA fees but the UK and EU added fees are crazy.

These are the USA hidden fees as according to ClickandBuy E-Money Account Terms of Use:
http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/terms-and-conditions.html


FACK YOU ClickandBuy!
FACK YOU UltimatePay!
YOU'RE COOL Playonline!
FACK YOU SQUARE-ENIX!

I'm out!

Don't forget the overdraft fees if you don't have money in your account when they go to charge it. Instead of you just not having service they will spank you with an overdraft charge and you wont have service.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

OK, I'm going to stop bothering with this thread, as "teh angry!" is being overshadowed by "teh stupid!"

But I do have to say one last thing:

The people who think PlayOnline was anything more than just a brand-name for Square-Enix obviously have never read their own credit card statements, and for that reason shouldn't be allowed near a credit card to begin with.


858-7907529SQUAREENIX3 08587907529 CA

[Chriscoffey]

Correct: their credit card processor. However, as a merchant, dealing with credit cards sucks, both in terms of processing fees and liability. Adding another middle man (be it ClickandBuy or PayPal) gives the merchant the chance to lower both costs, as that new middle man can make things cheaper by way of concentration and volume.
In this case, because ClickandBuy doesn't handle only Square-Enix subscriptions, they're handling a lot more transactions, a bigger volume of money, which gives them more negotiating power with the credit card companies when it comes to credit card processing fees.

And, presumably, ClickandBuy has the technological and legal security measures that Sony lacked. Even if it doesn't save S-E money per transaction, they're still able to sleep better at night without worrying about the next high-profile hacker attack.
They wont have to worry about anything soon as most of their long time customers for years before FF11 will never touch nor play another title ever again. That is a fact unless this is taken care of like a business who cares about it's customers should with better payment options. The fact Japanese get such an option just adds fuel to the fire.

[xbobx]

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Actually they said they had a billing partner, it is not their credit card processor. partner usually refers to third party. They mentioned that their billing partner was the ones that screwed up last month. so your argument is still flawed.

Most likely they fired their other third party because of their inability to do their job.

do you honestly think Click and buy cannot be hacked? People had no issues giving sony their info, and if you expressed your opinion that you didnt like to give out CC information online you get laughed at, and look how that turned out. No one knows what security they have, just like you can't say for certain what Click and buy's security is like.

No matter what putting your CC number online still has risk, sure most likely you are covered if there is fraud but it is still a pain in the butt if it happens. So people do have the right to be careful no matter how small the risk. I try never to have automatic payments come out of my accounts if I can help it, not because of hacking because when they screw up it can be a pain to get back. I had to fight one company for 6 months when they took out 200 dollars from my CC without authorization and I couldn't stop them through my CC company from taking more out if they wanted. CC company said they couldnt do anything about that, it was up to the company to stop taking the money out.

[Romanova]

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Actually they said they had a billing partner, it is not their credit card processor. partner usually refers to third party. They mentioned that their billing partner was the ones that screwed up last month. so your argument is still flawed.

Most likely they fired their other third party because of their inability to do their job.

It's possible, but people have to remember that this system isn't that new, as it's been there for over a year. more likely, if they had any license with a 3rd party to handle pol transactions, they didn't fire so much as didn't renew their contract.



On another note (not to you specifically xbobx), it might not have been because of cutting costs because of SE failing as some have been saying. SE didn't really get hit hard until they realized they spent all this money making 14 and it was utter shit when people tried to play it. They had already created the system before that though. This system was made back when SE was still doing well, and nothing, zero, nada has changed with that system since a year ago.

Tbh, I think they're just stupid when it comes to customer service and don't know how to think things through.

[Bilonn]

So playspan cards are something that I can pick up at my local walmart or gamestop and redeem for Crysta? I don't think i've ever seen them.

I didn't know what they looked like either, but I've seen them at Target now. It's also supposed to be available at Walmart, but I don't ever go there. Here's a pic of the cards.

http://ultimatepay.s3.amazonaws.com/ult-card.png

That card gives credit at PlaySpan/UltimatePay, thus can buy Crysta.

[InsideOut]

OK, I'm going to stop bothering with this thread, as "teh angry!" is being overshadowed by "teh stupid!"

But I do have to say one last thing:

The people who think PlayOnline was anything more than just a brand-name for Square-Enix obviously have never read their own credit card statements, and for that reason shouldn't be allowed near a credit card to begin with.

Everyone knows that Playonline is a part of SquareEnix but the Playonline division is something players have been dealing with for years. These new companies that SE are forcing upon have hidden FEES and some of them might as well be considered subscription fees since we are charged every time we deal or don't check in with the new company( ridiculous!).

We don't give a crap about how this is saving SE from liability issues and transaction fees. SE is closing our free Playonline management home and shoving us onto some company that wants us to PAY them to use their services.

[Bilonn]

Right, I know I have no wish to be associated with ClickandBuy. I've always gone by the Better Business Bureau's ratings.

ClickandBuy is NOT Accredited by BBB. On a scale of A+ to F, they've scored an F.
http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/business-reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-dealers/clickandbuy-com-in-new-york-ny-94189/

No CrappyandSteal for me.

I'm going to really miss automated payments (until they lose enough users that they're forced to shut down FFXI or implement an autopay another way), but I'll stick with Crysta for now. Keep enough in for a couple of months.

Hopefully, the "pay the next 30 days and you're reactivated" won't take any time to turn the account back on. Forgot to pay a couple of days ago and your account is off? Log into SE management, add crysta, reactivate the service, and go right into PlayOnline to login.... Hopefully. I know I'll forget at least once.

[Aver]

Right, I know I have no wish to be associated with ClickandBuy. I've always gone by the Better Business Bureau's ratings.

ClickandBuy is NOT Accredited by BBB. On a scale of A+ to F, they've scored an F.
http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/business-reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-dealers/clickandbuy-com-in-new-york-ny-94189/

No CrappyandSteal for me.

I'm going to really miss automated payments (until they lose enough users that they're forced to shut down FFXI or implement an autopay another way), but I'll stick with Crysta for now. Keep enough in for a couple of months.

Hopefully, the "pay the next 30 days and you're reactivated" won't take any time to turn the account back on. Forgot to pay a couple of days ago and your account is off? Log into SE management, add crysta, reactivate the service, and go right into PlayOnline to login.... Hopefully. I know I'll forget at least once.

Add a recurring event to your phone calendar for the time being. It'll get changed shortly after the initial wave of nonpayments.

[malf]

Some pointers to the current state of the art of implementing online payment with CC
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/pa-dss_v2.pdf
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/PCI%20SSC%20Quick%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

Couldn't find an helpful scheme showing workflows and responsibility areas for this kind of transaction.

Right know I can't make assumption how it was previously implemented, but seemed to work fine for most people :) . Now people without credit card will be able to play, but for a 10 years old game,most people found a way to play anyway.

[Shyla]

Guess I'll be letting my accounts go inactive after August. GF and I just financed a new car and the 3 accounts I pay for already was a stretch, not gonna pay any extra fees. Good luck failing, as you intend to do it seems, SE. I loved you as Squaresoft.

[Kya]

Y would SE doing this Crap hell i dont even kno if they got my CC update on that Click and Crap buy webpage i wish i kno if update or no So this Fail Website. SE y do fuck up? y would do this to the player? and your CEO should see all are posts sooner later going have 1k f ppl posting about Fail payment plan u guy want to have

[wish12oz]

Seriously, this is bullshit, and I doubt I keep my 2 accounts going until SE removes all the BS and I can just pay with a credit card without extra hidden fees or whatever bullcrap click and screw is going to try and hit me with. This change is garbage, and SE needs to make these other ways you CAN pay, and not the only ways, I can't believe this shit.

[Cratylus]

Nothing to add really, just voicing support against SE new billing system.

[Sp1cyryan]

I must also profess my utmost disapproval with this nonsense. This is just completely (f***ing) ridiculous. I have the most acceptance for the stuff SE pulls out of the others I play with in this household (including mine, 3 accounts, 11 characters total, four different players) and even I am about at the end of my rope here. I honestly do not want to quit (I just got armageddon damn it!), but I can not see myself going through this to try and give someone money.

No one really wants to use Click and Buy, and those willing to are not happy about having to give all their information to something they should not have to in the first place. Then go through something even worse than SE pulls to try and activate the pile of garbage.

Crysta is annoying and an extra hassle we should not be subject too (frankly I am annoyed FF14 fails and we are left to hold the bill for a companies mistakes) and frankly it is a sly scam.

The fact that the Japanese can not only continue to pay directly with a credit card, but can also buy direct ammounts of crysta (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106046-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-Information-Page(6-27-2011)?p=4716601&viewfull=1#post4716601) is just jaw dropping in the worst possible way. This honestly has to be the worst business practice I have come across. It is like SE took notes from Eric in Billy Madison at the part where he is trying to describe business ethics in the academic decathlon.

Please SE delay this if you need to, but if you do not fix this to make it more reasonable (no, a third party company you made a deal with and pass off to us is NOT reasonable) then I hope you enjoy seeing your customer base die off prematurely.
So, your next update teaser can be "introducing the new server merges" or you can take the needless hassle out of this. The choice is yours so I and the FFXI community implore you to make the right choice.

[Unaisis]

/Sniiiffffffffffffffffffffffffff~~~~ Ahhhhh...... Yup, Bullshit lulz

[Rearden]

It's a shame Lulzsec is on hiatus, SE would be a great target of opportunity at this point.

[Kraggy]

FACK YOU ClickandBuy!
FACK YOU UltimatePay!
YOU'RE COOL Playonline!
FACK YOU SQUARE-ENIX!

I'm out!
Everything you posted was totally irrelevant to people using C&B to pay a monthly sub, your reading comprehension let you down but please have a good rant if you wish.

BTW, nothing you posted related to UltimatePay, you just wanted to rant for the sake of it.

/clap

[Sp1cyryan]

Everything you posted was totally irrelevant to people using C&B to pay a monthly sub, your reading comprehension let you down but please have a good rant if you wish.

BTW, nothing you posted related to UltimatePay, you just wanted to rant for the sake of it.

/clap

You seem to want to be SEs poster boy for this. This like like opening a new road and not steam rolling it beforehand honestly.

[Romanova]

Well at least it's a start on answering questions with the Click and Scam. It's not nearly enough though.

It means they are reading at least.

[Kojo]

Well at least it's a start on answering questions with the Click and Scam. It's not nearly enough though.

It means they are reading at least.

They have? The threads I've seen Admins post in, as soon as the topic comes up the admins go completely silent. I suppose they can't really speak on the issue, but SE could atleast send a messenger to tell us that they are brainstorming or that they don't care and are having casual friday at the office and they all hope we enjoy the scammy 3rd party we'll have to deal with.

Personally, I'll just go the Crysta route and hope they come to their senses soon.

[Romanova]

They have? The threads I've seen Admins post in, as soon as the topic comes up the admins go completely silent. I suppose they can't really speak on the issue, but SE could atleast send a messenger to tell us that they are brainstorming or that they don't care and are having casual friday at the office and they all hope we enjoy the scammy 3rd party we'll have to deal with.

Personally, I'll just go the Crysta route and hope they come to their senses soon.


well they added a post here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ

about C&B charges. It's not nearly enough about trying to fix this, but at least it means they're reading.

[Vivik]

The only thing SE understands is profit and loss. If they show a significant loss they might fix something. Paying with crysta and hoping they will change something is exactly what they want.

[Kojo]

well they added a post here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10386-Square-Enix-Account-Transfer-FAQ

about C&B charges. It's not nearly enough about trying to fix this, but at least it means they're reading.

Ah, I didn't see the new post. Still that doesn't solve the problem of having to deal with a shady company like Click and Buy.

[Romanova]

The only thing SE understands is profit and loss. If they show a significant loss they might fix something. Paying with crysta and hoping they will change something is exactly what they want.

considering we already know one person who bought $3k worth of crysta where most of which will expire before being used....I think they're already getting what they wanted lol.

[Romanova]

Ah, I didn't see the new post. Still that doesn't solve the problem of having to deal with a shady company like Click and Buy.

ya I know, at least it's a start and people can hold them to it if there are any fees. I still wouldn't trust click and scam though lol, but others are willing to so /shrug

[Kojo]

ya I know, at least it's a start and people can hold them to it if there are any fees. I still wouldn't trust click and scam though lol, but others are willing to so /shrug

Yeah, I'm not trusting them. I can bring myself to trust Paypal, but not CnB.

[Sp1cyryan]

ya I know, at least it's a start and people can hold them to it if there are any fees. I still wouldn't trust click and scam though lol, but others are willing to so /shrug

Even if the fees don't apply to us. The fact that a company has fees like that in the first place is one I do not want to be a part of. Click and Buy can go shove it, I mean almost $3 to withdraw money if you store it with them? That is just complete trash.

It is the old illusion of choice routine.

[Meyi]

Thanks for the link, Romanova.~

[Vivik]

I would also like to point out that we should not forget about the people who cannot use click and buy or get crysta in their country. There may not be many, but I'm sure they love the game as much as the rest of us. I genuinely feel sorry for these people and I'm sure it was not how they wanted their ffxi careers to end.

[xbobx]

Why do I all of sudden get an impression this new system for crysta could be getting setup to allow for purchasing ingame items with. For example you want emp upgrade items you can buy them for real money.

Sounds crazy but if SE really wants to start making money that is the way to do it. Pay 12.95 for the game and for people that don't have big ls's you can buy items for real money. They have talked about this before and there has been rumors that FF14 would become free to play but with micro-transactions for items.

hmmm.

[Kojo]

I would also like to point out that we should not forget about the people who cannot use click and buy or get crysta in their country. There may not be many, but I'm sure they love the game as much as the rest of us. I genuinely feel sorry for these people and I'm sure it was not how they wanted their ffxi careers to end.

Yeah, I know a few people in the military that probably won't be able to play anymore because they are stationed overseas, one being stationed in Egypt.

[Cream_Soda]

I like how quickly they responded to the ho to use Crysta thread.

I'll give this thing a shot but the second I'm charged more than my montly bill, see you SE

[Kojo]

Why do I all of sudden get an impression this new system for crysta could be getting setup to allow for purchasing ingame items with. For example you want emp upgrade items you can buy them for real money.

Sounds crazy but if SE really wants to start making money that is the way to do it. Pay 12.95 for the game and for people that don't have big ls's you can buy items for real money. They have talked about this before and there has been rumors that FF14 would become free to play but with micro-transactions for items.

hmmm.

Sounds like another bad idea, you don't get stuff in game for having money, you get it by earning it. You don't have an Empyrean, a Relic, a Mythic, etc. you either haven't earned it or haven't YET earned it.

[Dreaubaut]

Why do I all of sudden get an impression this new system for crysta could be getting setup to allow for purchasing ingame items with. For example you want emp upgrade items you can buy them for real money.

Sounds crazy but if SE really wants to start making money that is the way to do it. Pay 12.95 for the game and for people that don't have big ls's you can buy items for real money. They have talked about this before and there has been rumors that FF14 would become free to play but with micro-transactions for items.

hmmm.

If that would realy be the case then SE would in a way turn into the RMT that they ran out of the game with the taskforce theyd just be hideing behide a shady crysta system

[Sp1cyryan]

Sounds like another bad idea, you don't get stuff in game for having money, you get it by earning it. You don't have an Empyrean, a Relic, a Mythic, etc. you either haven't earned it or haven't YET earned it.

Clearly you don't know about LSs who sell emperians if you pay them 60m. So if you bought the gil then yeah you get things for having real money.

[Chamaan]

So it occurs to me, and I don't know if it's been addressed yet because this thread moves so fast, but what about our friends coming back to the game? They still have old accounts that would need to get activated,, but they couldn't migrate them for a whole month. So they'd had to wait an entire extra month after their decision to come back to the game to come back to the game. Or are they just losing their stored accounts since they won't have transferred in this little window?

[Kojo]

Clearly you don't know about LSs who sell emperians if you pay them 60m. So if you bought the gil then yeah you get things for having real money.

Touche, Change that 'don't' to 'shouldn't'.

[Pharaun]

I'm still waiting for a community rep or SE official to come in here and try to do some damage control, but it's obvious that they can't/won't touch this topic with a 10 foot pole. They know that if they say anything other than they are adding a way to make direct payments to SE without having to use crysta or click and buy then they will get crucified.

The whole change over has been a poorly managed disaster and I hope that someone or several someones at SE Japan lose their job over this fiasco.

[Meyi]

The whole change over has been a poorly managed disaster and I hope that someone or several someones at SE Japan lose their job over this fiasco.

I don't wish this at all. They're people, they need to be able to feed themselves and their families too. But I would like it if they respected me as their customer and fulfilled my desires to directly pay.

[Kojo]

I'm still waiting for a community rep or SE official to come in here and try to do some damage control, but it's obvious that they can't/won't touch this topic with a 10 foot pole. They know that if they say anything other than they are adding a way to make direct payments to SE without having to use crysta or click and buy then they will get crucified.

The whole change over has been a poorly managed disaster and I hope that someone or several someones at SE Japan lose their job over this fiasco.

I don't care if anyone loses their job over people raging in a forum, I just hope to see an automated payment method through a more reliable company if not SE themselves.

[Vivik]

I don't wish this at all. They're people, they need to be able to feed themselves and their families too. But I would like it if they respected me as their customer and fulfilled my desires to directly pay.

How about the people they are sending to the unemployment line that worked in the CC processing center? Is that an acceptable loss? You can't tell me that SE dropping direct payments is not sending some people home.

[Sparthos]

Allow crysta payments to be exact and alot of the rage would vanish.

[Kojo]

Allow crysta payments to be exact and alot of the rage would vanish.

That would help, or simply a choice to buy an FFXI Crysta or something that is worth/costs as much as your monthly fee.

I'm more annoyed that I either have to worry about going through crap I haven't had to worry about for the past 7 years or I worry constantly about the shady CnB.

[Sp1cyryan]

Allow crysta payments to be exact and alot of the rage would vanish.

Or we could just have the ability to continue to be directly billed and it all go away!

I do not want to sit there and buy crysta either.

[Kagato]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but since I already pay $14.95 a month for FFXI, I'm just gonna buy $30 worth of Crysta every 2 months.

Simple math ftw.

[Pharaun]

I don't wish this at all. They're people, they need to be able to feed themselves and their families too. But I would like it if they respected me as their customer and fulfilled my desires to directly pay.

If I lead a project that had so obviously alienated a large portion of our customer base at my job I would certainly expect to be fired for not doing due diligence and seeing what kind of impact it would have. You can't be so grossly negligent and expect to keep your job.

[Puck]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but since I already pay $14.95 a month for FFXI, I'm just gonna buy $30 worth of Crysta every 2 months.

Simple math ftw.
Right, though if you did the "simple math" you'd see that over time you'd be paying more. Oh, and also you have to do that manually.

Or, you know, we could just pay them automatically and directly like we always used to instead of having to either buy their stupid funny money Crysta or go through a 3rd party.

[Vivik]

Right, though if you did the "simple math" you'd see that over time you'd be paying more. Oh, and also you have to do that manually.

Or, you know, we could just pay them automatically and directly like we always used to instead of having to either buy their stupid funny money Crysta or go through a 3rd party.

Don't forget that's also 30 days of play time not one month so again, losing....

[Ozzymandeus]

Wanted to add my voice to the chorus of displeasure with the new payment system.

You're a huge, multinational corporation, and you can't even handle your own payments? I grew up in a small, family business and we were very late to the party, and even we've been accepting credit cards without our customers going through a middle man for over 10 years.

My girlfriend quit FFXI shortly after Treasures of Aht Urghan came out and has since asked me to play World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings, Aion, Dungeons and Dragons, and Rift with her. She's been rebuffed every single time. Star Wars: The Old Republic is coming out this Christmas season, and she's already asked me once if I'd like to join her. She knows what's going on with the payment headaches and hoops we, as loyal customers, are being asked to jump through. She'll surely ask again. I might not turn her down next time.

From taking 3 years to finish out an expansion we bought in 2007, to offering up a roadmap for the future that lacks in anything new or exciting (Hellooooooo! New jobs or truely new areas, anyone?), to not even being able to process payments properly, to the perception (and it is at the very least a perception, though one SE has done little or nothing to try to dispel) that it favors its Japanese customer base over all others, nothing SE has done in recent memory serves to show that they want to secure my business for the foreseeable future.

Our bluffs are being called.

[Kasune]

This is not correct!!! To use Clickandbuy you must have an established bank account. They do not accept Wal-Mart cards or gift cards and you can not use them to setup a Clickandbuy account!!!! SE messed us over again by making us have to setup Clickandbuy account or lose our Final FantasyXI accounts because we can not pay for them anymore because we do not have a bank account!!!

[Romanova]

This is not correct!!! To use Clickandbuy you must have an established bank account. They do not accept Wal-Mart cards or gift cards and you can not use them to setup a Clickandbuy account!!!! SE messed us over again by making us have to setup Clickandbuy account or lose our Final FantasyXI accounts because we can not pay for them anymore because we do not have a bank account!!!

you can buy crysta with game cards, which is still stupid, but at least there's that.

[Sparthos]

Or we could just have the ability to continue to be directly billed and it all go away!

I do not want to sit there and buy crysta either.

I see the positives of using Crysta. You choosing to process your payment every month means there is no chance of a charge back or any of the other issues that plagued the old billing system. It really wouldn't be that hard for me to choose my deductions monthly either.

The problem lay in being unable to purchase exact amounts of crysta. This is the part of the system that favors SE as you are now forced to overshoot in order to maintain an account. Guess what that means? You get stuck with varying sums of Crysta you can do nothing with.

Everyone knows companies are in this to make money but cmon, its like bumping up the monthly fee without actually doing it. Sure, you get back your money if you play for the long term but why entrap customers? Is that good business?

If they simply allowed customers to purchase the exact amount they wanted, this wouldn't be such a huge mess but in typical fashion they've upset people by giving individuals two crappy options to choose between.

[Draylo]

Why the change SE? Please stick with what works.

[Kasune]

you can not use prepaid credit cards anymore!!! Clickandbuy does not accept them. You have to have a bank credit card or you have to inconvenience yourself to go buy an ultimate game card from 7-11, or other places, so you can pay using crysta.

[Raksha]

you can not use prepaid credit cards anymore!!! Clickandbuy does not accept them. You have to have a bank credit card or you have to inconvenience yourself to go buy an ultimate game card from 7-11, or other places, so you can pay using crysta.

Paypal may accept those prepaid cards, give it a try.

[Shyla]

Dont the cards themselves cost more than the actual value of the crysta? Unless maybe you make an online account?

[Keltzy]

Click and Buy sent all kinds of red flags up when I tried to do it to play XIV, and couldn't in the end 'cuz it was impossible to make an account without a phone number or something.

I'll go with Crysta with forced, but this is ridiculous. Not a happy customer.

[Kariel]

After this long, changing payment is a terrible idea. Especially with all of the players that will be unable to continue. I've played this since it was released, kept quiet, bit my tongue. No more, if this goes live like they're planning... my friend and I will be finding another place to spend our time and hard earned money. Thank you for a wonderful game, SE, but I'm afraid the line in the sand has been drawn.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Skimmed a JP thread. There's lots of talk about webmoney and the only MOD responce was directing people to the FAQ sticky.

[Luso]

you can not use prepaid credit cards anymore!!! Clickandbuy does not accept them. You have to have a bank credit card or you have to inconvenience yourself to go buy an ultimate game card from 7-11, or other places, so you can pay using crysta.

This is not true; I paid for XIV through a prepaid credit card when XIV was still accepting payments, though the process of reversing unauthorized transactions and such is tedious and should never have been an issue in the first place.

It is able to accept payment for other games it has in its list, as well, but I won't delve into those.

I just do not want to be forced to buy Crysta because of points outlined above. I want a simple, automated payment method that is directed to the company who owns the servers for the game I'm playing on, no middle-men or nothing.

Is that so much to ask for?

[Octaviane]

Skimmed a JP thread. There's lots of talk about webmoney and the only MOD responce was directing people to the FAQ sticky.

Ya I looked at that too. I don't speak, read or understand Japanese unfortunately, I only saw references to WebMoney, but did notice that there was a response from a MOD to about as many posts there as here. I checked the French and German sites too this morning, didn't see much reaction to the change.

[Sp1cyryan]

I see the positives of using Crysta. You choosing to process your payment every month means there is no chance of a charge back or any of the other issues that plagued the old billing system. It really wouldn't be that hard for me to choose my deductions monthly either.

The problem lay in being unable to purchase exact amounts of crysta. This is the part of the system that favors SE as you are now forced to overshoot in order to maintain an account. Guess what that means? You get stuck with varying sums of Crysta you can do nothing with.

Everyone knows companies are in this to make money but cmon, its like bumping up the monthly fee without actually doing it. Sure, you get back your money if you play for the long term but why entrap customers? Is that good business?

If they simply allowed customers to purchase the exact amount they wanted, this wouldn't be such a huge mess but in typical fashion they've upset people by giving individuals two crappy options to choose between.

It still be a huge mess, they started the 3D secure policy to stop charge backs. Crysta, while it has its positives, and some people enjoy it. Just annoys the others, and there are plenty who are tired of being annoyed. I can only be so patient, and having to buy crysta every 30 days instead of just being billed like I have since 2006 is not my cup of tea. I don't do it anywhere else, and won't have to do it anywhere else. SE does not get to be extra annoying to try and stop charge backs (something that was partly RMT oriented in its selection) as if other companies don't experience them.

I feel like we are sitting here while a company tests things us like an old dog with their ideas for future content.

On a note to the people talking about the crysta cards.
Who cares if you can (here comes the needless hassle) go to the store and buy a card with crysta on it? When I temporarily used visa gift cards for two months for this game I had to pay $17 for a $15 card and the rest on it was useless and eventually be deducted to 0 by the company if I did not use it. Those prepaid cards are always like that, and it is a waste.

TLDR; Direct billing option or gtfo.

[Alhanelem]

Ya I looked at that too. I don't speak, read or understand Japanese unfortunately, I only saw references to WebMoney, but did notice that there was a response from a MOD to about as many posts there as here. I checked the French and German sites too this morning, didn't see much reaction to the change.
Webmoney is worse than click&buy by a longshot; however it's the only payment service available in some regions like Russia and other countries that aren't known for having lots of gamers or people who buy stuff on the internet.

One of the things that's really bad about them is you can't remove an account once created; I asked to do this and they said they have to retain all records for legal reasons (bullshiat), they said the only thing I can do is change the password to something I'll never remember and forget about it.

At least it's possible to cancel your click&buy account if you wish, as long as you have no outstanding payments to make.

Side note: LOL @ thread tags.

[Cahlum]

I used clickandbuy for 14 deactivated account now they want a copy of my birth certificate and passport so yeah not happening. Why is it so bloody hard to give SE my money.

[Ilax]

Further proof you don't know wtf you're talking about because you think Playonline is a 3rd party company.

Playonline creator is SQUARE SOFT INC and NOT SQUARE ENIX.... But just because they merged you think is same?


Initially, PlayOnline was a subsite of SquareSoft.com and contained content such as online strategy guides and special sites for games published by Square (starting with Final Fantasy IX). It was introduced at the time of Final Fantasy IX's release, in which PlayOnline.com featured an online strategy guide that worked in conjunction with the printed version of the guide published by BradyGames. This subsite no longer exists, however. Square Enix integrated the site's features into their own site at Square-Enix.com,[1] in order to put up a site for the U.S. release of Final Fantasy XI.

ClickAndBuy must be SE too while we at this....

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: Point was already corrected some time ago, cg on being several pages late.

[xfreeplay]

Someone posted on BG that they contacted support and when asked if there were other payment options other then C&B for direct payment, they said no and that the feedback they've been receiving since implementation of C&B billing was "OVERWHELMINGLY" positive.

Clearly Mods are NOT forwarding our concerns to the proper parties, and it should be considered to start contacting SE directly about our concerns.

[Sp1cyryan]

Someone posted on BG that they contacted support and when asked if there were other payment options other then C&B for direct payment, they said no and that the feedback they've been receiving since implementation of C&B billing was "OVERWHELMINGLY" positive.

Clearly Mods are NOT forwarding our concerns to the proper parties, and it should be considered to start contacting SE directly about our concerns.

That is just disturbingly pitiful. I planned on calling them next week, but now I have to spread work to my LS and others to call them because this is just stupid.

Not a single person I have talked to in game so far has approved of the changes. I approve of the concept as many of us do, but this is just asinine.

I hope that support rep was just misinformed and talking out of their @$$.

[RAIST]

REGIONAL EQUALITY

That is all we are asking for. JP Region is virtually unaffected by these changes--they are getting all the options implemented in parallel while we are getting cut off from the most favorable option. Fix this SE, or risk loosing revenue.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12178-Formal-petition-Change-the-billing-method-or-lose-your-playerbase.?p=157135&viewfull=1#post157135

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'd like to know where this overwhelmingly positive feedback is coming from...

[Sp1cyryan]

I'd like to know where this overwhelmingly positive feedback is coming from...

The Japanese.

[xfreeplay]

I have sent SE an email through their support system, and would encourage everyone to do the same.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=496&la=1

From here hit Get support, Choose Account/Billing. Choose Billing Issues then follow through with the rest of the directions.

Be sure to include:

* Your great displeasure with the forceful use of a untrusted third party to handle your payments
*Being forced to buy crysta in quantities that will always leave you with unusable amounts (and having no ability to purchase it directly with credit/debit cards)
*The fact that C&B is not reputable and can even mention their F rating with the BBB.
*Your overwhelming desire to have direct credit card/debit card payments reinstated to accounts outside of Japan (include you find Japan keeping the old payment method while removing it from "your region&others" very distasteful and something that needs to be changed immediately.
*That you will NOT be resubscribing without Square Enix reconsidering their billing practices outside of Japan (In the case you will be resubscribing by jumping through hoops, this can be changed to "considering not to resubscribe")

And any other comments you feel are just to this current problem.

I'd also recommend telling your friends and anyone else effected to contact support IMMEDIATELY (email, phone, web chat) about your displeasure and anger over the new system.

[RAIST]

yeah.. I hit them up the other night once I got my hands on the C&B terms....so many ways they can slip up and slip a penalty in here and there...just too much room for error. Then you wind up with all the finger pointing. It was bad enough when it was just SE, their clearing house, and your card/bank. Now their in jecting a 4th point of failure into the equation by shuffling the billing off the POL service to C&B.

[Vazerus]

I have sent SE an email through their support system, and would encourage everyone to do the same.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=496&la=1

From here hit Get support, Choose Account/Billing. Choose Billing Issues then follow through with the rest of the directions.

Be sure to include:

* Your great displeasure with the forceful use of a untrusted third party to handle your payments
*Being forced to buy crysta in quantities that will always leave you with unusable amounts (and having no ability to purchase it directly with credit/debit cards)
*The fact that C&B is not reputable and can even mention their F rating with the BBB.
*Your overwhelming desire to have direct credit card/debit card payments reinstated to accounts outside of Japan (include you find Japan keeping the old payment method while removing it from "your region&others" very distasteful and something that needs to be changed immediately.
*That you will NOT be resubscribing without Square Enix reconsidering their billing practices outside of Japan (In the case you will be resubscribing by jumping through hoops, this can be changed to "considering not to resubscribe")

And any other comments you feel are just to this current problem.

I'd also recommend telling your friends and anyone else effected to contact support IMMEDIATELY (email, phone, web chat) about your displeasure and anger over the new system.

As I said waaaaaay back, I also encourage people to do this; make yourselves heard.

If you don't like the system they're changing to, simply quit like I did; That's $12.95 (x2) less they're making every month just from me. If 1000 accounts cease to pay, that's $12,950 less they are making each month, or $155,400 yearly. That's not counting mules, or accounts with full mules. All my friends that still play are now quitting, that's 5 accounts. Four people I was getting back into the game next month are no longer going to be, so that's 9 accounts that would have been paying next month JUST from my small circle of friends.

[xbobx]

Wow they wanted a copy of your passport. No way in hell I would give anyone a copy of my passport.

[RAIST]

for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja%7Cen&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.playonline.com/home/polshift/help.html&usg=ALkJrhi6FKw6G58hZjRe31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:

「クレジットカード」「Crysta」から利用されるお支払方法を選択し、「次へ」をクリックしてください。 "Credit card" "Crysta" and select the payment method used by "Next" Please click on.

※ ※ 「クレジットカード」は、Visa、MasterCardの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したカードがご利用いただけます。 "Credit Card", Visa, personal authentication services for MasterCard (3D Secure) available card with.

※ ※ 「Crysta」はVisa、MasterCard、JCBの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したクレジットカード、およびウェブマネーでチャージすることができます。 "Crysta" are Visa, MasterCard, personal authentication services for JCB (3D secure) credit card with you and to charge money on the web.



クレジットカード番号、有効期限、セキュリティコードを入力し「次へ」をクリックしてください。 Credit card number, expiration date, security code, enter the "Next" please click on the.
Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

[Atomic_Skull]

The whole change over has been a poorly managed disaster and I hope that someone or several someones at SE Japan lose their job over this fiasco.

That's not how it works in japanese companies. Someone screws up like that they don't get fired, they get moved to a meaningless job within the company until they crack and resign.

[Neisan_Quetz]

That's not how it works in japanese companies. Someone screws up like that they don't get fired, they get moved to a meaningless job within the company until they crack and commit seppukku.

ftfy (letters)

[Atomic_Skull]

ftfy (letters)

You mean "perform" not "commit".

[Ilax]

I'd like to know where this overwhelmingly positive feedback is coming from...

The Japanese.

and me!!!!!!

[Zatias]

I wonder what would happen if we all called GMs on this issue ^^;

Was a joke. Tried the email thing.

[Meyi]

I sent an email as well. Hopefully if they get enough letters they'll at least consider better options.

[Unaisis]

clickandbuy is like getting a Hobo from the street to handle your credit card to pay SE~ T.T no way am doing that lol.... when am not lazy/busy i will try make a letter to send to someone....

[Lyrminas]

i got charged multiple times for different amounts by click and buy the first time, took a couple of months to get my refund, too much of a hassle and not willing to deal with it again. /signs petition.

[xfreeplay]

i've been reading of people getting charged by C&B of upwards of 3 dollars just by signing up to pay for ffxi, not even announced just showing up on their statement.

Edit: just for clarity, they didnt get charged BECAUSE they were paying for ffxi, just for signing up in general.

[noodles355]

Well, the european SE members site doesn't seem to work and the link in the EU account transfer topic leads to a japanese page so I can't actually sort out my two accounts.

But you know what, even if I could, I probably wont. i have a paypal account I use for ebay, but I'm not signing up to another company to use it. I'm not signing up to either UltimatePay or Click n Buy.

So at the end of this billing cycle I guess both my accounts will be discontinued. It sucks, but concidering I'm usually the kind of person who just turns a blind eye to the retardedness and will pay a little extra just to keep going, and that even I can't be bothered with this shit, I'm figuring a lot of people will stop playing FFXI over this. Maybe if a lot of people feel and do the same, it wont take long (maybe a month or 2) for SE to realise they have no option but to add another method of payment.

[Ilax]

Or maybe SE will loose 250 Q.Q player and won 5,000 happy player, and they wont give a heck too, all i can say is i feel sorry for who got so hurt by a minor inconvenient like this, as someone say in early post, i also have the feeling who gonna quit was already quiting and was just searching a good reason to do it, so... not a big lost.

Also be ready to not join any MMO since most of them work with such of system.

[xfreeplay]

Or maybe SE will loose 250 Q.Q player and won 5,000 happy player, and they wont give a heck too, all i can say is i feel sorry for who got so hurt by a minor inconvenient like this, as someone say in early post, i also have the feeling who gonna quit was already quiting and was just searching a good reason to do it, so... not a big lost.

Also be ready to not join any MMO since most of them work with such of system.

Nupe I was going to stay well past 99 cap.

And also, I direct paid for wow, DCUO, and aion in the last 2 years, I believe direct payment was avail for Rift to, but I did direct payment from paypal for that (not ultpay!)

Dunno what mmos you play that don't offer credit card support.

[Ilax]

SE does Support CC too... just not your *trusty company*, and they offer as other MMO "Alternative" as game card, etc. And nothing in future say SE wont add more like PayPal as direct payment.

[xfreeplay]

It's not just not a "Trusty company" to me when banks are calling their customers warning them to not get into buisness with C&B. Not to mention threatening to lock their accounts everytime C&B performs a transaction on their card.

[Romanova]

SE does Support CC too... just not your *trusty company*, and they offer as other MMO "Alternative" as game card, etc.
SE doesn't do CC support they do support through Paypal + Click and Buy in which those companies offer CC support. there is a difference, which is why xfreeplay was saying it.

But as said multiple times, more and more people are realizing that US CC companies block CnB, so that is not an option for most US people and all those countries that CnB doesn't support.


And I agree with xfree, I have never played a major MMO that didn't allow you to direct pay. Dunno where you got the idea that they all force you to do this.

[edit] I should correct that and say SE doesn't do CC support...except for the JP players..

[Unaisis]

for Altanas Sake Ilax!!! your already in the damn game lol i swear i would walk over to ur assault.. or what ever right now and poke you but am too lazy....

Anyone who couldn't get into the game cuz of 3ds.... prolly don't care anymore O.o...

and i think u are missing the point of most of the complaints...

[Ilax]

What i am saying is SE did drop Playonline and started a new billing system, of course is not perfect for everyone, i am sure EU bank have no problem with C&B, is more a US problem then anything else. As i said many time allow SE to add more option, i doubt they are not concerned by the current problem, and with they new platform they made, it gonna take minor change to add up company like Paypal as main payment system.

Is clear that SE don't wan offer direct Credit Card for other country except JP, and that is they choice, i am sure if they took such of decision they had a real good reason for it, and doubt they will start talking about it nor they going to go back on playonline billing system.

[Ravenmore]

Has anyone try prepaid visa cards yet. Wondering cause you can get around the VbV thing so if you get over charged it won't mess you up to bad. I don't really care about C&B either way since I will be using the game cards that are sold at a place I have no choice but to go to every month.

[Dauntless]

Lol'd at all the people nobody has ever heard of QQing about how they're going to quit or did quit because of this.
Seriously? Lulz.


What the fuck? So only people who've made a name for themselves in the game should be allowed to complain? In that case, all of us "people that nobody's ever heard of" then who'll be left? Avesta? Cool.

[Ilax]

The Japanese.


for Altanas Sake Ilax!!! your already in the damn game lol i swear i would walk over to ur assault.. or what ever right now and poke you but am too lazy....

Anyone who couldn't get into the game cuz of 3ds.... prolly don't care anymore O.o...

and i think u are missing the point of most of the complaints...

I did not missed the point, they changed dynamis and i was real unhappy about it, what did i learn about that change? They did not give a heck for minority like me complaining how that change would destroy all remaining LS, did it happen? Of course all dynamis linkshell broked.. Sad you did not learn from this...

SE do stuff on they own, and i am sure is more lucrative for them doing it the way they do with C&B and Crysta, so you have your answer. Now the only thing left for who unhappy about all this is asking them to give Paypal as main payment system, nothing much you can do, they wont go back to playonline as main payment system...

They had a reason to do all this, and you are very dumb if you think SE did it just on purpose to piss off everyone and did it without any research. So how it feel to be on minority side?

(doing salvage, good you didn't try to /poke me :P)

[Dauntless]

I did not missed the point, they changed dynamis and i was real unhappy about it, what did i learn about that change? They did not give a heck for minority like me complaining how that change would destroy all remaining LS, did it happen? Of course all dynamis linkshell broked.. Sad you did not learn from this...

SE do stuff on they own, and i am sure is more lucrative for them doing it the way they do with C&B and Crysta, so you have your answer. Now the only thing left for who unhappy about all this is asking them to give Paypal as main payment system, nothing much you can do, they wont go back to playonline as main payment system...

They had a reason to do all this, and you are very dumb if you think SE did it just on purpose to piss off everyone and did it without any research. So how it feel to be on minority side?

(doing salvage, good you didn't try to /poke me :P)

Actually Ilax, you're in the minority again.

[RAIST]

they don't have to go back on the POL system. They can use the same shell they are using for the JP payments, just put in the framework for the processors in the other regions. These apps pass xml code across a secured connection, so a large part of the environment is portable across multiple processors with minimal effort once you have the core design in place--which they already have done for the JP region. And yes, I do know a little something about this process as I managed the networking setup for this stuff for 4 years, and even took over the support desk for the divison my last year with that software firm.

They HAVE an established framework for implementation as evidenced by the JP options in the transfer.
They HAVE the established processors as evidenced by their merchandise site, supporting the JP clients, and previous POL.
They already have knowledfge of and met the checklists and can support the protocols for using 3DS, VbV and JSecure, as evidenced by them doing it with POL in the past, currently, and prepared to continue supporting it for the JP clients.

So... what's missing in the equation? They just have chosen NOT to extend it outside of the JP region.

[Ilax]

Actually Ilax, you're in the minority again.

Oh yeah, that why SE said people are overwhelming happy right?

[Unaisis]

SE wont bend for ingame crap... mess with their money tho~ they will find a solution fast~ there is a difference between Real life and a fantasy world

[Tikiki]

I too do not support the new payment plan. As an Australian my choice is limited to Click and Buy or don't play. Well after 7 years of playing, unfortunately I'm taking the don't play option. My husband too is in the same position and will not be continuing as well as our good friend. Shame you feel the need to alienate your loyal customers in this way. :(

[Ilax]

Shame you feel the need to alienate your loyal customers in this way.

Because you expected better from them? Did you ever try email them or did you ever read they "Service Agreement"?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Not one of the banks in my country will recognize Click and Buy. Just attempting to get verified will get your card nuked, even in the middle of a 2 day public holiday.

[Malacite]

dear SE, give us this, and all anger will end immediately

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/f/4/f467c8a952b5f0a3c14b5970db4c5609.jpg


Or at the very damned least, discounts for buying large amounts of Crysta. Blizzard, on top of allowing you to pay them directly for WoW, discounts you a full month IIRC for a year's subscription, and similar discounts for some of the other options.


How long are you going to let Blizzard keep kicking you in the balls SE? This has been my favorite game for 8 years now, and I really don't want to have to quit over something so trivial as this - but you brought it on yourselves. What pray tell, was wrong with allowing us to register our cards like the JP? Or getting Paypal, which has an A+ rating from the BBB as the default option over C&B?


Honestly just how much of a rush job was this? There's no way you guys can be this incompetent.

Oh wait...

[Seiver]

microsoft had this problem already with MS points (http://www.pcworld.com/article/187861/microsoft_sued_over_xbox_live_points.html). just replace with microsoft with SE and MS points with Crista points

[Niyariko]

Someone need to contact SE in person, like walk into their office and tell them we need direct payment method, print out every post on this thread on A2 papers and put it in their hands to show our displease about the change. They need to know basically everyone outside the JP community have negative feedback against this change.

Does SE really want to kill off FFXI from the rest of the world and make this game JP only?

[Runespider]

Does SE really want to kill off FFXI from the rest of the world and make this game JP only?

They either are trying to save money and don't realise the options they are giving are going to cause a shitstorm or they are trying to get better rates from the company that they use to pay for FFXIV. Who knows.

I never have been able to understand Square, the really sad part is there is a godo chance they won't change this and lose customers. Jp companies don't like being forced into things and as such they might just eat the losses as to not lose face over it.

[Maximusmeridius]

I don't see problems in new billing method if this doesn't work or couse problems, I understand this whining according to my knowledge there is no hidden fees that 3.9% is charged only if u transfer money to yours C&B account let see how this works just little patience ppls.

[Kraggy]

I never have been able to understand Square, the really sad part is there is a godo chance they won't change this and lose customers. Jp companies don't like being forced into things and as such they might just eat the losses as to not lose face over it.
Er, you've obviously not been following FFXIV's evolution then, because SE's actions give the lie to your last statement, certainly as far as SE is concerned.

[Kraggy]

Ito my knowledge there is no hidden fees that 3.9% is charged only if u transfer money to yours C&B account let see how this works just little patience ppls.
Yes that's right, so many round here and on Alla have reading comprehension problems.

[RAIST]

Yes that's right, so many round here and on Alla have reading comprehension problems.

Actually, the problem is the TOS was not clear on the situation. On one hand, they say in certain circumstances THEY (meaning C&B) may determine that it is necessary to prefund your account, and in such case there would be a 3.9% fee charged if you fund it via a credit card.

We did not have any clarification in the TOS for certain that prefunding would not be required for FFXI. Also if it wasn't required, hypothetically, it is possible that if someone had an active account also used for other services that meet that criteria, and paying for FFXI should cause that account to fall below the required threshold.... well, guess what--in theory, your 12.95 just got hit with a service fee.

It took a couple days of people crying foul to finally get an official response from SE on this matter, which SHOULD have been disclosed up front if they had bothered to properly research the TOS of the company they are now potentially forcing 2/3 of their regional playerbase to use.


But... all off this would have been rather moot if they had just continued to allow us to pay directly just like they are doing for that one specific JP region. No one would have been in a tizzy to dig up all the details on a payment company many had never even heard of in the first place....they would have just transferred and continued with their direct payments, business as usual.

[Dijana]

Whats sad is this thread is almost at 50 pages after 1-2 days and still no official response. And I believe people have said throughout here too that there has been no response to other similar unhappy threads in the other language boards. Obviously the majority arent happy with this, yet they claim they have had overwhelmingly positive feedback? Im more inclined to think they know nobody likes this and are just sticking their heads in the sand, and all our community reps/devs are under order not to say a word.

[Kraggy]

Whats sad is this thread is almost at 50 pages after 1-2 days and still no official response. And I believe people have said throughout here too that there has been no response to other similar unhappy threads in the other language boards. Obviously the majority arent happy with this, yet they claim they have had overwhelmingly positive feedback? Im more inclined to think they know nobody likes this and are just sticking their heads in the sand, and all our community reps/devs are under order not to say a word.
Please define majority, just what population are you asserting the posters on here represent, because the numbers are a vanishingly small percentage of the entire FFXI NA/EU population this forum site is targetting?

Let me be clear, I dislike this change, I resent being treated differently from JP players and having to use tird-party payment outfits, but the nerd rage and utter bullshit level this has generated is laughable in its inanity.

I loaded up on Crysta using Play Span without a problem, like I did before for XIV before SE decided not to charge, it was annoying to have to do and repeat regularly in future, but it's NOT A BIG DEAL!

[Zumi]

Crysta isn't all that bad seems like people are making a bigger deal about it then it is. Can use Playspan and they take Paypal and Ultimate Gamer Cards, and you don't even need a Paypal account just your credit card and personal info and Paypal takes care of the rest.

The most you ever over pay is about $5 at a time. That money goes toward the next month. So your really not over paying since you can still use it for next month's sub fees.

The regular sub is $12.95 a month. So the first month you can buy $10 and $5 of Crysta. For a total of $15.

Month 1: +15.00 - 12.95 = 2.05 leftover
Month 2: 2.05 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 4.10 leftover - added $15
Month 3: 4.10 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 1.15 leftover - only added $10 this month
Month 4: 1.15 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 3.20 leftover - added $15
Month 5: 3.20 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 0.25 leftover - only added $10 this month

Yes its annoying to have to add Crysta all the time but its not that big of a problem that you need to rage quit FFXI over.

[Revanchist]

I've read through all 49 pages... I can say that I don't support SE's decision in this regard. I live in Australia, and as far as I know, Australia is one of the countries where Crysta hasn't been accepted as it hasn't been legally approved yet. My cousin has used Clickandbuy, and has been penalised all sorts of fees etc (some of which I don't believe myself as he is prone to exaggeration but still...), so that has given me a preconceived notion about C&B to the point I will not use them myself at all.

Playing via Play Span and the Ultimate game cards does seem to be a option, however as far as I know they aren't available here in Australia either... (if for a fact they aren't...) I'm unable to continue my FFXI journey due to this debacle. Now I agree PlayOnline may've had problems, let's face it no system is 100% perfect, but going through these two options I honestly don't see how either of them solves not just my problem, but also those in countries where the Ultimate game cards are not available or Crysta hasn't been legally approved.

Like RAIST said in a earlier post, the groundwork for a direct debit option is not just viable but also (imo here) practical, as I would prefer to keep it as it is. The fact that JP can still pay via direct debit while the rest of the world can't, does seem (at first glance) as a slap in the face to those users.

I do think that after September 1st, there will probably be a drop in users (both old and possible new ones as I seriously doubt they'd go through all the trouble to set this up, if only to play casually as there are plenty of other MMO's around which are probably easier to register and play) and will be reflected in SE's fourth quarter financial review. Hopefully those numbers 'shock' SE into doing something to extend the borders for direct debit payment to the rest of the world.

Still... I had a good run in Vana'diel (nearly 5 years), and while I dislike the thought of being forced to leave (like I said, the only options available at this time to continue playing, I either don't support (C&B) or are unavailable here (Ultimate game cards)) I may have to. All I can do (and others who may be in the same situation as I am), is pray SE decides to allow gamers in other countries to return to direct debit. In the meantime I have plenty of other games to play, which I've put on the backburner and there are other MMO's available. While I am upset with this change SE is forcing on us, I intend to make the best of the situation and enjoy other things.

[RAIST]

Crysta isn't all that bad seems like people are making a bigger deal about it then it is. Can use Playspan and they take Paypal and Ultimate Gamer Cards, and you don't even need a Paypal account just your credit card and personal info and Paypal takes care of the rest.

The most you ever over pay is about $5 at a time. That money goes toward the next month. So your really not over paying since you can still use it for next month's sub fees.

The regular sub is $12.95 a month. So the first month you can buy $10 and $5 of Crysta. For a total of $15.

Month 1: +15.00 - 12.95 = 2.05 leftover
Month 2: 2.05 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 4.10 leftover - added $15
Month 3: 4.10 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 1.15 leftover - only added $10 this month
Month 4: 1.15 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 3.20 leftover - added $15
Month 5: 3.20 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 0.25 leftover - only added $10 this month

Yes its annoying to have to add Crysta all the time but its not that big of a problem that you need to rage quit FFXI over.

But...you are overpaying with crysta until you have spent $1295. Sit down with a calculator and add 12.95 continually until it hits a flat multiple of $5.00. It's 100 cycles. 98.6 months. 8.2 years. If one is not planning to do FFXIV, or purchase anything with crysta outside of their FFXI subscription....that's a pretty screwed up option.

Especially when (once again) SE already has access to EVERYTHING THEY NEED to extend the direct pay option to all regions directly through the SE account management interface just like they are doing for the JP Region. They have contracts with regional clearing houses, they have the software, they have the hardware, they have all the knowledge, know-how, and man-power to implement this. I set this crap up for 4 years with a 4 man team for clients across NC, SC, GA. It's actually fairly easy to roll-out after you get the first client set up in more or less static website layout (which the SE pages are, and they already have the JP pages doing it). The processor sends you the core code and you basically just adjust it for your specific account/network/etc details and paste it into your source, flag the test bit, compile, publish, test/tweak until ready to go live, disable the test bit, recompile, publish, and start processing payments.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Crysta isn't all that bad seems like people are making a bigger deal about it then it is. Can use Playspan and they take Paypal and Ultimate Gamer Cards, and you don't even need a Paypal account just your credit card and personal info and Paypal takes care of the rest.

The most you ever over pay is about $5 at a time. That money goes toward the next month. So your really not over paying since you can still use it for next month's sub fees.

The regular sub is $12.95 a month. So the first month you can buy $10 and $5 of Crysta. For a total of $15.

Month 1: +15.00 - 12.95 = 2.05 leftover
Month 2: 2.05 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 4.10 leftover - added $15
Month 3: 4.10 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 1.15 leftover - only added $10 this month
Month 4: 1.15 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 3.20 leftover - added $15
Month 5: 3.20 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 0.25 leftover - only added $10 this month

Yes its annoying to have to add Crysta all the time but its not that big of a problem that you need to rage quit FFXI over.There is a bigger problem with adding crysta via a credit card. You can't add different allotment at the same time. Something like this can can be easily misconstrude by the card company as multiple wrongful billing when you have to add one value and then add another.

[Ilax]

microsoft had this problem already with MS points (http://www.pcworld.com/article/187861/microsoft_sued_over_xbox_live_points.html). just replace with microsoft with SE and MS points with Crista points

lol if they win again microsoft, let sue visa and mastercard for same reason on they gift card, idk how many i tossed in garbage with 1~2$ left with no use...

[Alukat]

I do think that after September 1st, there will probably be a drop in users (both old and possible new ones as I seriously doubt they'd go through all the trouble to set this up, if only to play casually as there are plenty of other MMO's around which are probably easier to register and play) and will be reflected in SE's fourth quarter financial review. Hopefully those numbers 'shock' SE into doing something to extend the borders for direct debit payment to the rest of the world.


hmm as i know SE , they neither will be shocked nor change the payment system, they'll just merge some servers :x

[Maacha]

A copy of the letter I just sent to SE customer service. I suggest everyone upset over the billing changes writes them with your own story, so that as many people as possible at SE know we are angry.


I felt the need to comment on the upcoming changes to billing methods.

I understand that you are trying to save money by contracting with another company to handle credit cards in the US, but you have alienated a large amount of your playerbase by choosing Click&Buy as your partner. They have overwhelmingly bad reviews wherever I have checked, and they do not allow credit cards to be used from a LARGE number of countries that were formerly allowed using the old billing system, including my own. I am a US citizen with a US account, but moved to Korea several years ago. I had no problem registering my new Korean credit card to pay for my 3 accounts using the old system, but that option is now removed from me with these changes.

I will be forced to use PayPay via UltimatePay, it is the only service you allow that can take my credit card now. By using PayPal, I must buy Crysta every month, there is no recurring payment system for me. I also cannot buy Crysta for exactly the amount I will need, I will have to overpay and leave a small amount of Crysta in my account to "roll over." Japanese players do not have this limitation, they can pay for exactly the amount of Crysta they need, or they can still pay via credit card directly with recurring payments.

I may be forced to cancel all 3 of my accounts over this billing issue, and I know for a fact that I am not the only one. All over the forums that I read, official and unofficial, there are people who have already cancelled, and many more plan to cancel soon. We are your customers, but this change seems designed to make us angry and make it much harder for us to give you our money.

Please add the option to continue paying you directly on a recurring basis if we are using credit cards already allowed under the current system. If this is not possible, please make it possible to buy Crysta in the exact amounts we need and on a recurring schedule.

On another note, I still cannot access FFXI directly from my Korean IP address. I must pay an extra $60 a year for a VPN service to play this game, and only this game. If I am forced to pay extra for Crysta every month because of your odd bulk amounts, my husband WILL force me to cancel our accounts. Perhaps it is time to remove the region block from your servers, since RMT is largely dead in this game. There are far more people participating in RMT within the US and Europe than ever did from Korea. I might even start playing FFXIV if the region block was removed...

[RAIST]

Nicely done Maacha. I've been sending mine to both the regular feedback section as well as through the support page for billing issues. hopefully SOMEONE will pick up on the fact this is a problem and take some action one day.

[Juri_Licious]

Read 10 threads and don't feel like reading anymore.
So for US users we can continue using the normal method?

[Niyariko]

Read 10 threads and don't feel like reading anymore.
So for US users we can continue using the normal method?

no direct payment for anyone except JP

[RAIST]

Read 10 threads and don't feel like reading anymore.
So for US users we can continue using the normal method?

Nope.. and that is more or less what is at the heart of the problem:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12120-Petition-clickandbuy-the-only-way-no-thanks.?p=157220&viewfull=1#post157220

[Meyi]

Month 1: +15.00 - 12.95 = 2.05 leftover
Month 2: 2.05 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 4.10 leftover - added $15
Month 3: 4.10 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 1.15 leftover - only added $10 this month
Month 4: 1.15 + 15.00 - 12.95 = 3.20 leftover - added $15
Month 5: 3.20 + 10.00 - 12.95 = 0.25 leftover - only added $10 this month

Yes its annoying to have to add Crysta all the time but its not that big of a problem that you need to rage quit FFXI over.

If you have no mules it works out like that, yes. I have 3 active mules which brings me to $15.95 a month.

[Dijana]

Please define majority, just what population are you asserting the posters on here represent, because the numbers are a vanishingly small percentage of the entire FFXI NA/EU population this forum site is targetting?

Let me be clear, I dislike this change, I resent being treated differently from JP players and having to use tird-party payment outfits, but the nerd rage and utter bullshit level this has generated is laughable in its inanity.

I loaded up on Crysta using Play Span without a problem, like I did before for XIV before SE decided not to charge, it was annoying to have to do and repeat regularly in future, but it's NOT A BIG DEAL!

Lets see majority. Okay in all fairness that was an assumption of mine. You know, because I have yet to see anyone say they LIKE the new method, on these forums, on other forums, in game...I dont look at the boards for other languages but from what I hear there are many unhappy customers there as well. So okay, I've assumed it is the majority, because of the overwhelming amount of people I have seen saying its horrible as opposed to the fact I have not seen a singple person say they like it. If those that like it are out there and they are an overwhelming majority by all means please point them my way.

As for crysta not being a problem. I said it earlier myself and there have been others to state it. Not all countries have access to crysta. There is simply no option there to buy it. There are many people who will be left with no option other than clickandbuy. And on this topic I might as well add this in I have attempted to set up a clickandbuy account in the past and started getting charged multiple fees for seemingly nothing. There were the expected 'verification amounts' which I actually got no message about until AFTER it had been changed, but there were also a couple random other unexplained fees I then had to lodge an unnauthorized transaction complaint with my bank and have them get it back. So many people have reason to be unhappy with this.

You are right though kraggy, the posters here do represent only a tiny percentage of the entire ffxi population, but if you were to use the amount of 'for' vs 'against' that is on these forums (other areas) and apply that to get an idea of the rest, you would see that the majority IS against this, because I find it hard to believe that all those that like all this are simply 'elsewhere'. And now, I will stop, because its late and Im tired and I think Im just going in circles =.= blah

[Octaviane]

Whats sad is this thread is almost at 50 pages after 1-2 days and still no official response. And I believe people have said throughout here too that there has been no response to other similar unhappy threads in the other language boards. Obviously the majority arent happy with this, yet they claim they have had overwhelmingly positive feedback? Im more inclined to think they know nobody likes this and are just sticking their heads in the sand, and all our community reps/devs are under order not to say a word.

Sorry, but 487 responses from over 31k views on this topic is not a majority. The feedback on the JP Forums relates to WebMoney, not our issues and there is little or no reaction on the French or German Forums.

Don't get me wrong, SE should have allowed players the option to continue to pay directly with a CC as well as the other options. Most would have continued to pay with CC's is my bet, but there are some who won't be able to play at all now because X, Y or Z fake money isn't available in their region. Paypal isn't available everywhere either. SE is forcing players to comply while allowing JP to continue paying with CC's, at least by all accounts.

SE should prepare a statement and post it here to explain why they have chosen to go forward with this insanity. Why? Because you are the consumer paying SE for a service. It's simple courtesy if nothing else. Players aren't asking SE to divulge their innermost secrets, just to give a rational and believable explanation and also to at least consider the idea of giving players back the choice. This decision has nothing to do with their claims of providing an additional layer of security, especially since they are asking players to choose to buy Crysta via a 3rd party that seems to have little or no credibility. Obviously SE didn't do it's due diligence on ClickandBuy. Paypal seems to be the more acceptable choice and being able to buy Crysta in exact amounts like the JP can do. However, the chances of SE answering are slim to none.

I am certain SE is banking (pun intended) on the fact that the majority of the playerbase who can make the transfer without issue or even if it's a hassle will do so despite the initial outrage, because FFXI, for want of a better phrase, is the drug of choice. They are aware that they will lose a very small number of players because of this and other problems that always pop up. No matter how many other games are out there, people will always come back here or join and stay until the bitter end despite its problems. SE knows that too. There will be some who won't stay or come back at a later time, mostly because the options given are not available to them yet or for other personal/financial concerns. Sacrifice the few for the sake of the many. It has been done for Millenia, no different in 2011.

Anyway, good luck and best wishes to all who continue. FFXI is and always has been a unique and great game, no matter which side of the fence you have been on. :)

[Dauntless]

Sorry, but 487 responses from over 31k views on this topic is not a majority. The feedback on the JP Forums relates to WebMoney, not our issues and there is little or no reaction on the French or German Forums.


That's simply because alot of people don't know about it yet. When everyone is forced to do the transfer, then SE will get the second round of outrage.

[Alukat]

Sorry, but 487 responses from over 31k views on this topic is not a majority. The feedback on the JP Forums relates to WebMoney, not our issues and there is little or no reaction on the French or German Forums.


many german ppl are posting at the english forum, as i do ;)
however i talked to some immediately after I found out that i have to use a 3rd party to continue playing ffxi.
some of them didn't checked the reps on the 3rd partys or even didn't care and they simply signed in.
sadly many german ppl are trained to accept everything blindly, i'm not proud on my country :(

[Malamasala]

They are aware that they will lose a very small number of players because of this and other problems that always pop up.

The question is if they are aware that their declining FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV etc. sales are because people lost faith in the company and are actively boycotting them. Doing this isn't helping their future titles at all, and will in the end let them steal some 5 dollars per person, while they'll end up selling fewer games for 30 dollars.

I've never before seen a company beeline for bankruptcy like SE tend to do.

[Arioche]

8 years, 1300 days playtime... this may finally be the end of the long road for me. That's a lot of time spent dealing with their terrible services. They sure know how to make a good game, but are even more knowledgeable at how to screw people over. Don't think I'll be forgiving them this time...

Hello again, Warhammer Online

Edit: ^also that reminds me... Makes me lol. They haven't been doing good since FFX. They've been making poor game one after another, 12 and 13 were trash. Now this... company has really fallen apart over the years. Maybe the "Final Fantasy" curse is finally nearing. They were supposed to be bankrupt and done with after the original game came out... but they've managed to avoid death all this time. Guess their time has finally come :rolleyes: