Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Soundwave]

I'm afraid it will be along the lines of mana cede with a 5 min recast.....I hope this is not the case....

[Malamasala]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

[Korpg]

Just ignore him Raz, your idea for the new JA that will lower BP timer was good.

[Korpg]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

[Razushu]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

I'm going to be optimistic, SE have been coming through for us lately, hopefully the new ability will be a stance seeing as the manifesto says "A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts". It says plural so I don't think it will be a one shot 5 min ability.

-EDIT-

Also I'm ok with SAM's DD abilities > ours, we are much better at, healing, buffing, and kiting. I'm not too upset that Meditate> Mana Cede because sure a SAM will put out higher damage(their sole role), but we can haste a party much better.

[Soundwave]

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it


I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

[Razushu]

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it


I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

I like your idea and a combo of yours with a non-MP cost would be close to perfect. Something like a summoning recast penalty or a HP penalty would be really interesting, a HP cost could work like yours. Ability HP cost= Blood Pact recast*4, so if you use Predator claws back to back you lose 180HP to activate, this would at the very least lead to some very interesting "Whoops I killed myself" stories:D

The more I think on it, the more I'm against an MP cost for this ability we already pay MP to do anything on SMN, and it's not cheap. Even if this ability was free the cost of the pacts will be more than enough to make us pay close attention to our MP and what we're doing.

[Soundwave]

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

[Razushu]

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

Maybe a penalty to the other school of pacts could work also?

Astral void would place a x2 cost on the price of wards, and vice versa. This idea would probably require a static reduction in recast to be balanced though.

[Malamasala]

So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

What I want is simple. I don't want extra costs and penalties for things that are worse than what other jobs get for free. SAM is fine doing 1k while I do 200 with my TP, what isn't fine is that it costs 100 MP.

I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

SAM getting 100% TP equals a SMN getting 0 seconds left on BP timer. A SMN getting 100% TP isn't near the same thing.

Am I getting my point across, or do I have to speak a different language? If my abilities are worse, why am I penalized more for them? That is my one big question regarding Summoner.

This is of course assuming you made the mistake to think I complained about the 1k damage vs 200 damage. Raz certainly did. Though I never expected any of you two to actually get my point. Nothing personal, just my experience so far.

[Soundwave]

I want some videos of new stuffs in action Camate!

Please! Lets see our Cat in action!

-------------------------


I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

Well Sams TP is for WS and only Weapon skills not counting group2 merit
Summoners ES is for MP which = wide variety of skills. Summoner also has a wide variety to help increase the amount of MP.(Which will be SE's defense for 5 min recast.)
However I'm not against a 3 min recast ES.

[Razushu]

What I want is simple. I don't want extra costs and penalties for things that are worse than what other jobs get for free. SAM is fine doing 1k while I do 200 with my TP, what isn't fine is that it costs 100 MP.

We're mages MP cost is just a fact of life for us, I've made peace with that.


I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

It's only 100MP every 5 minutes, we're mages things we do cost MP, for SMN that includes /ja's.


SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

This I agree with, although I guess Mana Cede is like our "SEAL" ability so they gave it a higher recast, in all honesty given it has a cost it should be on a 60sec timer, that is affected by Blood Pact delay -.



SAM getting 100% TP equals a SMN getting 0 seconds left on BP timer. A SMN getting 100% TP isn't near the same thing.

This new abilty will be like meditate, hopefully just superficially, in the way it lowers time between BPs. I don't think anyone wants a 1shot ability.


Am I getting my point across, or do I have to speak a different language? If my abilities are worse, why am I penalized more for them? That is my one big question regarding Summoner.

This is of course assuming you made the mistake to think I complained about the 1k damage vs 200 damage. Raz certainly did. Though I never expected any of you two to actually get my point. Nothing personal, just my experience so far.

I actually didn't, I understood you perfectly, maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I never mentioned the disparity in damage. Which would be a stupid thing to focus on seeing as the abilities are different in function, SAMs increase their damage output by granting an extra WS, while ours increases damage output by just boosting the damage of one of our attacks.

I got your point, that you're upset we pay more for our abilities, fact is though all mages pay more for their abilities, it's just a reality of the game(although you could argue that melees pay for theirs by being the ones to get pounded on by the mob). SE has been doing right by us since >75 cap, and that's probably not going to change, until it does they will get the benefit of the doubt.

[Malamasala]

I got your point, that you're upset we pay more for our abilities, fact is though all mages pay more for their abilities, it's just a reality of the game(although you could argue that melees pay for theirs by being the ones to get pounded on by the mob).

What fact that mages pay more for all their abilities?

Scholar:
Negative effect of arts is that you are 10% worse at the opposite. Meaning it is a penalty if you attempt to play two roles.
Sublimation drains HP to give MP. Negligable cost since draining 46 HP restores 200 HP with a cure III.

White mage:
You lose HP on martyr to give other person HP. Not exactly a big deal since it is an emergency ability when you have no MP to spend.
You lose HP to give MP on devotion. Not really that negative since again HP is easily restored.

Red mage:
Composure will give you a higher recast. Bad if you are hasting 6 people, but it isn't really those moments you are supposed to use the ability anyway. Pretty much only bad when soloing as RDM/NIN.
Convert takes HP and gives MP. Again, a favorable swap since you can refill HP much easier than MP.

Black mage:
Nothing negative. All JA's have only positive effects. (Unless you want to complain that mana wall drains MP when you get hit)

Blue mage:
Convergence does limit your AOE to single target which could be seen as a penalty. But it sounds more like the whole idea of "focusing the damage to deal more damage to a single target" thing.

Bard:
Troubadour could be claimed to be negative with it taking 1.5 the time to cast songs while doubling the duration.

Summoner:
Mana cede costs 100 MP to give 100 TP. Had it been 100 HP, I'd just shrugged it off. Same deal as for WHM in that case, or for RDM. But MP? Nobody else pays MP for their abilities. NOBODY.
Avatar's favor does a 20% damage reduction to compensate for -2 perpetuation and an Aura effect. In addition each time you use rage pacts, you weaken your aura.

Comparing the above jobs I would claim Summoner got the shortest straw. And I can't understand where you get the impression the other mages are paying terrible prices for their abilities. (And apparently BLM is the winner with not a single negative ability)

I'd gladly swap with most of the jobs. I'd take 100 HP for mana cede cost, that will be a breeze. Then I'll take 1.5 times the recast on spells instead of 20% damage penalty for avatars favor. Now SMN pays as much as WHM or RDM for the abilities, and somehow it is a vast improvement over what SMNs used to pay. How is that possible if all mages pay the same high price?

[Korpg]

Mala, you are complaining for the sake of complaining. Everything in the above post is utter BS and you know it, but you still posted it just because you are such a negative person and never think about the positives of a job or ability .

[Sparthos]

You're speaking to Mellowy and he could turn a conversation about income taxes into an argument about Summoner.

It's what makes him.... him.

[Soundwave]

ive with it taking 1.5 the time to cast songs while doubling the duration.Summoner:
Mana cede costs 100 MP to give 100 TP. Had it been 100 HP, I'd just shrugged it off. Same deal as for WHM in that case, or for RDM. But MP? Nobody else pays MP for their abilities. NOBODY.
Avatar's favor does a 20% damage reduction to compensate for -2 perpetuation and an Aura effect. In addition each time you use rage pacts, you weaken your aura.

Well again, in a different answer: Summoners focus point is our MP, it is why we have so much MP and MP Boost....so much gear that gives +MP etc. Where summoner is weakened SE gives us a chance to accomplish back though other means. You want summoner to be perfect/flawless I just don't see this happening.

Going along by being a hate free job, I can understand why we are penalized for selected things.

p.s. love your sig Sparthos

[Sparthos]

Well again, in a different answer: Summoners focus point is our MP, it is why we have so much MP and MP Boost....so much gear that gives +MP etc. Where summoner is weakened SE gives us a chance to accomplish back though other means. You want summoner to be perfect/flawless I just don't see this happening.

Going along by being a hate free job, I can understand why we are penalized for selected things.

p.s. love your sig Sparthos

I gotta give the credit to Kingfury, he turned my concept into exactly what I wanted.

[Luvbunny]

All SE needs to do is to add more HP to our avatar 20-30% more, boost its attack and defense, lower perpetuation cost by 2 and boost our mp pool by 30%. Then Smn is good, balanced with some penalty but that's the price you pay for having a pet that you can summon at all times with very little hate.

[Korpg]

They do need to update all pets in terms of dealing damage now, I do agree with that.

[Soundwave]

Lets change the subject shall we???

こんにちは。

皆さんからのフィードバックを元に、次回バージョンアップでは以下の調整を行う予定です。

カーバンクル：ルビーの安らぎ Lv94
　　範囲内のパーティメンバーの状態異常を複数個回復。（※）
ラムウ：スタンガ Lv92
　　範囲内の敵を短時間行動できなくする。


ということで、まずは状況に応じて様々な召喚獣が今よりも活躍できるよう調整を行っていきます。引き続きよろしくお願いいたします。

※湧水との棲み分けのため、利便性を上げられるように目下調整・検証中です。

------------------------------

Translation

Carbuncle: Lv94 peace ruby
Removes all status aliments to party in range.

Ramuu: Lv92 Sutanga
Stuns multiple targets

Spring Water is currently being tested and being re-worked.

p.s. they want to hear more feedback on Blood Pacts for further adjustments so please leave your feedback.

[Korpg]

I hope that Peace Ruby will erase ALL debuffs including amnesia and curse/doom 100% of the time.

[Soundwave]

I hope that Peace Ruby will erase ALL debuffs including amnesia and curse/doom 100% of the time.

I Think it will because they are re looking at Spring Water, so it would only make sense to.

[Karbuncle]

Ramuh's BP will be absolutely worthless if its got the same long-ass charge timer as every other single BP to date...

Carby's will be very very very very very situational.

Spring Water (I assume thats what they meant) Being reworked? I feel a nerf coming so Carby's BP seems more special.

Over-all very Meh, But at least we know what to expect, And i can be happy with that!

Edit: Feed back on Current Bloodpacts?

Raise the power of 75BP's again, But only slightly, please. Increase the power of 70BPs for Titan, Levia, Ifrit, Ramuh, and Shiva, cause right now theres little reason to use anything other than Predator Claws.

Maybe make Carbuncle not a furry little useless pet? Increase the Combat abilities of Holy Mist so that it does more than 100 damage over Meteorite? It costs about the same MP as the 70~75 BPs theres no reason it should be so pathetically weak.

Make Titan's "Earthern Ward" Increase in potency along with duration with Summoning Magic over cap, Maybe cap out Titans Stoneskin at 350 or so. With Accession-Stoneskin, This isn't asking a lot.

Perhaps rework a few more wards to be a bit more potent... Like Warcry one, and the Enthunder one... so on.

[Soundwave]

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?

[Miera]

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.


Oh dear, First you weren't happy about PUPs being a better front line job DD than SMNs and comparing the two totally different polar opposite jobs and now it's SAM... What's next RNG?

SAMs use Meditate to you know to weaponskill and skll chain while SMNs don't.

By the way, SAMs are not the love children of SE anymore. WARs, MNKs and NINs are. But mostly WARs..

[Miera]

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?
Hmmm... I guess when you are dong Crowd control like a SCH would. I usually Stunga when we aggro a bunch of mobs in Dyna or in Abyssea mass pulling for BLMs or WARs.

[Soundwave]

Well I guess a good + is with this being a Ward I'm assuming, maybe it will make Ramuh shine a bit more to a used avatar. instead of Shiva Shiva Shiva.

Also Ramuh will now have two types of stuns at will now, technically 3 but 2 on the same timer.

[Korpg]

I dunno how I feel about Stunga......like when would you use it lol?

With a very long TP move.....or when the mob is about to hit 25% HP (which is when anybody with stun should use it if it is up anyway, that is almost a guaranteed TP move right there)

[Soundwave]

If under the effect of Ward and If its not instant what good is this stun?

[Karbuncle]

Well I guess a good + is with this being a Ward I'm assuming, maybe it will make Ramuh shine a bit more to a used avatar. instead of Shiva shiva shiva.

Well at least Ramuh will now have two types of stuns at will now, technically 3 but 2 on the same timer.

Shiva's only the "best" magical one because of Abyssea and Atma of the Beyond.

Outside of that its mostly equal, However since you can only pick 2 BP's to fully Merit, and the difference in power thanks to TP from a Fully merited one, and one with only a single merit is so large, You generally merit to max your favorite/Best performer and go from there.

Outside, Technically Ifrit's is the most powerful, thanks to that new Fervor Ring increasing ifrits Magic Attack by like, 1.

Its a matter of preferences, the only reason you see shiva is because people prefer her, shes no more powerful than any others.

[Korpg]

Unless the stun effect is 20 seconds or longer, this BP won't be used that often at all.

[Soundwave]

Shiva's only the "best" magical one because of Abyssea and Atma of the Beyond.

Outside of that its mostly equal, However since you can only pick 2 BP's to fully Merit, and the difference in power thanks to TP from a Fully merited one, and one with only a single merit is so large, You generally merit to max your favorite/Best performer and go from there.

Outside, Technically Ifrit's is the most powerful, thanks to that new Fervor Ring increasing ifrits Magic Attack by like, 1.

Its a matter of preferences, the only reason you see shiva is because people prefer her, shes no more powerful than any others.

Indeed, just was naming the popular avatar atm:eek: I do agree with what you said 100%


Unless the stun effect is 20 seconds or longer, this BP won't be used that often at all.

That will be cool! Much like a Geocrush stun effect sometimes when it procs long enough.

[Karbuncle]

Aye, Well, Hopefully they rework quite a few BP:Wards.

The only one i really want over-hauled is Earthern Ward, Which definitely needs a potency boost, to that of a normal Stoneskin. Back when no one would Accession, It made sense to make it weaker, But now that anyone can aoe Stoneskin, this BP needs to get with the times.

[Miera]

Yeah, I'd like to see Titan's stoneskin revamped. I was wondering if there are ways to make his Earthen armor more powerful.. like atmas?

also think that the avatars may need to be adjusted a little more uniquely. You'd think Titan would be the one with more defense and Ifrit would be probably the most physically stronger, (I sometimes think he should play more of a WARs role..)

They are all considered BLMS..

I'd like their attributes to be changed a little to be similar to all the avatars, instead of just being a BLM I think they should have a sub job. like

Ifrit WAR/BLM and Carbuncle WHM/BLM although I don't consider Carby to be anything near a BLM.

Also, I wonder if they will do anything For Carbuncle, a new Healing BP? Something a lot stronger? Maybe something that can even heal Other Alliance members in AoE range?

Would it kill them to let pets heal each other instead of themselves and members? I think It would be nice... but that maybe asking for too much??

[Dallas]

If under the effect of Ward and If its not instant what good is this stun?

I would use a few thousand mp to stun > reset > repeat. Not sure what you guys will do.

[Karbuncle]

I'd like their attributes to be changed a little to be similar to all the avatars, instead of just being a BLM I think they should have a sub job. like

Ifrit WAR/BLM and Carbuncle WHM/BLM although I don't consider Carby to be anything near a BLM.

In one of their questionnaires they said "no" to this idea because they did not want Avatars to be chosen based on their jobs/etc, they wanted Avatars to be chosen based on their Element... Or something, You can find it on here still.

(I.E they wanted you to use Ifrit on something weak to Fire, and so on, and they think buffing an avatar in a way like you said would tend to make people use an Avatar with the highest attack, or the highest magic attack, instead of the pet that would be effective against the enemies weakness)

[Miera]

Bah humbug. ><

[Tannlore]

Hmm Carby's BP removes all status ailments? Really? All? Well if this is true then I'm pretty happy about this BP. Wonder what they will do to Healing Water though... Meh

Stunga still makes me kinda sad, but at least it's a cool direct casted stun. Might stop some things on chance or at least stop a mob for a few seconds here and there when it's up.

[Dallas]

That strategy of choosing the right element is why Tunga finally fell, and why DG was nerfed. It's not a stretch to think this was the original plan.

[Korpg]

That strategy of choosing the right element is why Tunga finally fell, and why DG was nerfed. It's not a stretch to think this was the original plan.

You discovered how to kill Tunga finally????

Wow, congratulations, you are 6 months too late!

[Malamasala]

Oh dear, First you weren't happy about PUPs being a better front line job DD than SMNs and comparing the two totally different polar opposite jobs and now it's SAM... What's next RNG?

SAMs use Meditate to you know to weaponskill and skll chain while SMNs don't.

By the way, SAMs are not the love children of SE anymore. WARs, MNKs and NINs are. But mostly WARs..

Do you have any reading comprehension? The topic in my post is "pros and cons on job abilities". The fact that SAM ended up in the post was just a random selection of the most similar job ability to mana cede.

PS. I would have no qualms comparing BLM Elemental Seal for magic accuracy to a RNGs sharpshot for ranged attack accuracy. Because I'd be comparing the job ability giving an accuracy bonus to your damage type, not BLM and RNG.

[Korpg]

Do you have any reading comprehension? The topic in my post is "pros and cons on job abilities". The fact that SAM ended up in the post was just a random selection of the most similar job ability to mana cede.

PS. I would have no qualms comparing BLM Elemental Seal for magic accuracy to a RNGs sharpshot for ranged attack accuracy. Because I'd be comparing the job ability giving an accuracy bonus to your damage type, not BLM and RNG.

How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

[Tannlore]

How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

They are similar in that their function is to provide TP. The source for which that TP gets place is different, and how that TP gets used is unrelated to the ability and not required to use said abilities (I don't HAVE to use my TP after meditating.. I can hold onto it and stare at the lovely numbers).

I believe this is the similarity Mala was talking about and she is correct. They are similar in they provides TP, for use, with another ability. They are dissimilar in how that TP is gained (meditate is over time, mana ceded is a mp to TP transfer) and who gets it player vs. avatar (though being an extension of the player, the avatar itself could arguably be called the player). The sam (or /sam) needs 100 tp to use his WS, the summoner doesn't require 100% TP to use a blood pact.

[Dallas]

I'm all for one change to Mana Cede: 10 second recast.

[Malamasala]

Also, didn't we already list blood pact updates earlier in this thread? Or was that in another thread?

Retyping it all yet again:

Lunar cry: No moon phase dependency. Moon phase is impossible to effect. This is equal to playing COR and being unable to roll 11 unless it is full moon. It just doesn't work.

Lunar roar: Needs to be bigger and give a better chat text. Currently people claim it works, but says nothing. Personally I always thought it never hit because I never even saw the animation land on monsters next to fenrir.

Ecliptic Growl: No moon phase. Terrible idea. Might as well make piercing weapons useless unless it is earthsday. It is THAT dumb.

Ecliptic Howl: Same thing again, no moon phase.

Flaming Crush: Better additional fire damage. Currently it is more like "anti-fire reduction" since you do less damage than other avatars if the fire damage is resisted, instead of doing more damage when monsters are weak to fire.

Crimson Howl: Should be either 30 seconds of 25% attack bonus, or 15 minutes of 8% attack bonus. Short burst, or long low potency.

Rock Buster: Bind on a melee pact makes no sense. Change this to slow.

Megalith Throw: Because Rock Buster is no longer bind, make this one bind. Makes for a crappy "shadow bind" attack.

Earthen Ward: Better potency to compete with SCH Ascension stoneskin.

Earthen Armor: Make this say damage reduced when it helps. It is nicer to see text saying "Earthen Armor absorbs 340 damage" rather than just sit there and wonder "Did it do anything or did I waste MP and it is bugged?"

Slowga: Needs to either be slow II power, or slow power but stack with slow/elegy for massive slow, or deal damage while used. I've personally never seen anyone use ever.

Tidal Roar: Should deal some damage as well. Especially since it is not named "attack down-ga".

Aerial Armor: Should give utsusemi shadows rather than blink shadows. Nobody wants terrible blink.

Rush: Should be able to crit like all other 70 pacts.

Frost Armor: Should scale with level. At 90 it should do 50 damage in return. Preferably last 15 min.

Sleepga: Should be ice based sleep. Should be ranked same as sleepga II in priority.

Diamond Storm: Should deal additional damage.

Shock Strike: Should have no ready animation.

Rolling thunder: Should scale with level. About 40 damage per hit at 90, like Ifrit's ward.

Lightning armor: Should scale with level. 50 damage returned at 90. Should stun 1 second and go off 50% of the time.

Ruinous Omen: Should be a massive DoT effect rather than the pitiful 0.1% max HP damage it does.

Night Terror: Should deal double damage when used on sleeping monsters

Somnolence: Should be AOE

Nightmare: Should have scaled DoT. At level 90 it should do at least 25 HP per tick.

Noctoshield: Should scale with level. At 90 it should give at least 35 damage reduction.

Dream Shroud: No time of day dependency. Just a straight out MDB/MAB bonus.

Avatar's Favor: Should not have 20% damage penalty. Rather make it something like double spell recast.

[Soundwave]

I would use a few thousand mp to stun > reset > repeat. Not sure what you guys will do.

You didn't understand what I said,

If the Ramuh must wait like all other avatars to perform the BP opposed to a drk/blm's spell "Stun" then I don't see much of a use for it to stun anything major.

[Malamasala]

How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

Tannlore seems to be slightly smarter than you. And in all honesty, did you even ATTEMPT to look at the similarities, or did you only look at everything you could find that was different in an attempt to claim I'm wrong? (Sorry, but it is you who are wrong, as always.)

You call me negative, and you haven't ever tried to look positively on any of my posts. You are pretty much the definition of a kettle. (Unless you want to be the pot. I'm up for discussing this matter).

[Tannlore]

Tannlore seems to be slightly smarter than you. [...]

I R smartz! :D But if we are going to play pot and kettle game.. can I be fire? I mean after all they didn't get black by being in the clean sink! >:)

[Razushu]

Also, didn't we already list blood pact updates earlier in this thread? Or was that in another thread?

Retyping it all yet again:

Lunar cry: No moon phase dependency. Moon phase is impossible to effect. This is equal to playing COR and being unable to roll 11 unless it is full moon. It just doesn't work.

Lunar roar: Needs to be bigger and give a better chat text. Currently people claim it works, but says nothing. Personally I always thought it never hit because I never even saw the animation land on monsters next to fenrir.

Ecliptic Growl: No moon phase. Terrible idea. Might as well make piercing weapons useless unless it is earthsday. It is THAT dumb.

Ecliptic Howl: Same thing again, no moon phase.

Flaming Crush: Better additional fire damage. Currently it is more like "anti-fire reduction" since you do less damage than other avatars if the fire damage is resisted, instead of doing more damage when monsters are weak to fire.

Crimson Howl: Should be either 30 seconds of 25% attack bonus, or 15 minutes of 8% attack bonus. Short burst, or long low potency.

Rock Buster: Bind on a melee pact makes no sense. Change this to slow.

Megalith Throw: Because Rock Buster is no longer bind, make this one bind. Makes for a crappy "shadow bind" attack.

Earthen Ward: Better potency to compete with SCH Ascension stoneskin.

Earthen Armor: Make this say damage reduced when it helps. It is nicer to see text saying "Earthen Armor absorbs 340 damage" rather than just sit there and wonder "Did it do anything or did I waste MP and it is bugged?"

Slowga: Needs to either be slow II power, or slow power but stack with slow/elegy for massive slow, or deal damage while used. I've personally never seen anyone use ever.

Tidal Roar: Should deal some damage as well. Especially since it is not named "attack down-ga".

Aerial Armor: Should give utsusemi shadows rather than blink shadows. Nobody wants terrible blink.

Rush: Should be able to crit like all other 70 pacts.

Frost Armor: Should scale with level. At 90 it should do 50 damage in return. Preferably last 15 min.

Sleepga: Should be ice based sleep. Should be ranked same as sleepga II in priority.

Diamond Storm: Should deal additional damage.

Shock Strike: Should have no ready animation.

Rolling thunder: Should scale with level. About 40 damage per hit at 90, like Ifrit's ward.

Lightning armor: Should scale with level. 50 damage returned at 90. Should stun 1 second and go off 50% of the time.

Ruinous Omen: Should be a massive DoT effect rather than the pitiful 0.1% max HP damage it does.

Night Terror: Should deal double damage when used on sleeping monsters

Somnolence: Should be AOE

Nightmare: Should have scaled DoT. At level 90 it should do at least 25 HP per tick.

Noctoshield: Should scale with level. At 90 it should give at least 35 damage reduction.

Dream Shroud: No time of day dependency. Just a straight out MDB/MAB bonus.

Avatar's Favor: Should not have 20% damage penalty. Rather make it something like double spell recast.

I agree with almost everything you said here, if they weren't common ideas to any good career Summoner I'd swear you were in my head, and be off to make a new tinfoil hat.

Maybe they could leave the moon phase/time of day mechanic, I feel with tweaking it could work. It a solid Baseline bonus to all effected stats, and seeing as they need a buff to potency anyway...

Ecliptic Growl would give a +8 to all stats base line, and an extra ~+6 STR VIT DEX full<------->new AGI INT MND CHR

Ecliptic Howl would give +20 to acc/eva regardless and an extra ~+15 to one or the other based on moon phase

Lunar Cry would work similar to E. Howl

Dream shroud could give 10% MAB/MDB with a ~+5% to either depending on time.

[Soundwave]

I agree with these buffs.

[Soundwave]

They are similar in that their function is to provide TP. The source for which that TP gets place is different, and how that TP gets used is unrelated to the ability and not required to use said abilities (I don't HAVE to use my TP after meditating.. I can hold onto it and stare at the lovely numbers).

I believe this is the similarity Mala was talking about and she is correct. They are similar in they provides TP, for use, with another ability. They are dissimilar in how that TP is gained (meditate is over time, mana ceded is a mp to TP transfer) and who gets it player vs. avatar (though being an extension of the player, the avatar itself could arguably be called the player). The sam (or /sam) needs 100 tp to use his WS, the summoner doesn't require 100% TP to use a blood pact.

So then should my TP from my avatar after mana cede is used....be adjusted so that when I release my avatar the TP is transferred to the summoner? This way we can stare at the numbers to instead of <pettp >

Just saying:rolleyes:

[Dallas]

You didn't understand what I said,

If the Ramuh must wait like all other avatars to perform the BP opposed to a drk/blm's spell "Stun" then I don't see much of a use for it to stun anything major.

I know what you said. You are giving up before the update. Perhaps you dont know about stun-lock.

[Soundwave]

I know what you said. You are giving up before the update. Perhaps you don't know about stun-lock.

No, I have not given up...I only had to go off by what little you said so I had to assume unfortunately.

Yes I do know how to Stun-lock so now I have to ask because in your recent post you didn't specify exactly.

Are you trying to say

A. One smn will be able to stun lock a mob using your countless MP pool, and "assuming" you know "exactly" how SE's new BP timer JA will work?

or

B. Multiple summoners attempt to Stun lock with an army of Ramuh and hopping that the stun will land in time due to how all other BP work in extenuation of the BP?

Or possible

C. Something random you know that you wont say that I can't think of atm.

Until you answer A,B, or C I can't respond your post adequately.

[Razushu]

No, I have not given up...I only had to go off by what little you said so I had to assume unfortunately.

Yes I do know how to Stun-lock so now I have to ask because in your recent post you didn't specify exactly.

Are you trying to say

A. One smn will be able to stun lock a mob using your countless MP pool, and "assuming" you know "exactly" how SE's new BP timer JA will work?

or

B. Multiple summoners attempt to Stun lock with an army of Ramuh and hopping that the stun will land in time due to how all other BP work in extenuation of the BP?

Or possible

C. Something random you know that you wont say that I can't think of atm.

Until you answer A,B, or C I can't respond your post adequately.

I think the answer is A., I believe he was implying that if the new ability allows us to spam BPs only a melee SMN will have the MP to be able to stun lock a mob.

[Malamasala]

I agree with almost everything you said here, if they weren't common ideas to any good career Summoner I'd swear you were in my head, and be off to make a new tinfoil hat.

Maybe they could leave the moon phase/time of day mechanic, I feel with tweaking it could work. It a solid Baseline bonus to all effected stats, and seeing as they need a buff to potency anyway...

Ecliptic Growl would give a +8 to all stats base line, and an extra ~+6 STR VIT DEX full<------->new AGI INT MND CHR

Ecliptic Howl would give +20 to acc/eva regardless and an extra ~+15 to one or the other based on moon phase

Lunar Cry would work similar to E. Howl

Dream shroud could give 10% MAB/MDB with a ~+5% to either depending on time.

Yes, it is possible to set some kind of middle ground and then bonuses depending on day or moon. The biggest issue is of course ending up at the wrong time and getting 0-1 stat on your desired stat, which is solved by your suggestion.

Best part is that you didn't suggestion -stats on the wrong moon or time. It always feels better with a bonus than a penalty.

[Soundwave]

I think the answer is A., I believe he was implying that if the new ability allows us to spam BPs only a melee SMN will have the MP to be able to stun lock a mob.

Fair enough.

[Korpg]

Tannlore seems to be slightly smarter than you. And in all honesty, did you even ATTEMPT to look at the similarities, or did you only look at everything you could find that was different in an attempt to claim I'm wrong? (Sorry, but it is you who are wrong, as always.)

You call me negative, and you haven't ever tried to look positively on any of my posts. You are pretty much the definition of a kettle. (Unless you want to be the pot. I'm up for discussing this matter).

You need 100% TP to WS, your avatar doesn't need any TP to BP.

Meditate gives you 60/160 TP (depending on job/gear).
Mana Cede gives your avatar 100/200 TP (depending on gear).

Meditate is 12 TP per tick over time.
Mana Cede is instantaneous.

There is no similarity between the two unless you want to say that they both give TP. That is a poor excuse to compare the two. That is like comparing Warcry with Berserk, just because you can have attack on both, even though they are completely different in every other way except giving you attack.

I can't try to look at anything positive about any of your posts because they are dripping, literally dripping, with negativity. Nobody has shot your cat, so stop being all emo about it. You give me nothing to look at that is positive at your posts at all.

[Camate]

Hello!

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Carbuncle: Soothing Ruby* Lv94
　　Remove multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.**

Ramuh: Shock Squall* Lv92
　　Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

We would like to make adjustments to avatars so that they can shine brighter than they do currently, so keep the feedback coming!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
(**Currently testing and adjusting this in order to enhance the conveniences it offers over that found when using Spring Water.)
*Updated with in-development terminology at 7:22pm PDT

[Soundwave]

Smash your f5 key Camate posting job stuffs!

**Edit

lmao dang it!

[Ank]

We would like to make adjustments to avatars so that they can shine brighter than they do currently, so keep the feedback coming!


I hope you'll be looking into the power of avatars under astral flow.

[Soundwave]

Hello!

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Carbuncle: Consoling Ruby* Lv94
　　Remove multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.**

Ramuh: Stunga* Lv92
　　Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

We would like to make adjustments to avatars so that they can shine brighter than they do currently, so keep the feedback coming!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
(**Currently testing and adjusting this in order to enhance the conveniences it offers over that found when using Spring Water.)

Don't forget to check a few pages back already feed back on this info.

[Ank]

What kind of readying time are we looking at for stunga?

[Soundwave]

Will stunga be casted like a normal spell or will it "cast" like an avatar?

p.s.

Any news on our Fat Cat and what its gonna do? The big mouth to if your sneaking around the Dev's office as well.:p

[Sargent]

Any news on the JA that lowers/resets the BP timer?

[Leonlionheart]

I hope you'll be looking into the power of avatars under astral flow.

As it stands Alexander is the only thing AF is good for, so buffing Astral Flow in correlation with leveling up might be a good idea...

(Hint: Predator Claws can do ~5k easily, Aerial Blast ranges from 1~3k)

[Rakshaka]

Hello!

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Carbuncle: Consoling Ruby* Lv94
　　Remove multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.**

Ramuh: Stunga* Lv92
　　Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

We would like to make adjustments to avatars so that they can shine brighter than they do currently, so keep the feedback coming!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
(**Currently testing and adjusting this in order to enhance the conveniences it offers over that found when using Spring Water.)

Consoling Ruby:
When creating this pact, keep in mind how long it would take to summon carbuncle and use this, as opposed to simply casting a ~na spell to remove a status effect on a party member. During the time it takes to summon carbuncle and use this blood pact, you could remove one type of status effect from 2-4 people. Also consider that you're taking up a BP:ward by doing this as well. We only get 1 ward per 45 seconds, so it's precious to us. I can see this being useful if you're expecting a devastating aoe enfeeble to land at some point in the near future, in which case you could have Carbuncle out and ready to use this when it hits. I.e. Ultima's Armor Buster, or Gurfurlur's Pleidas Ray. But even then, there's nothing stopping them from repeating the TP move, and quickly reapplying the debuff again.

For Consoling Ruby, I'd suggest adding a Divine Caress effect to all status ailments that are removed. This would make up for the fact that we can only use a ward once per minute. It would mean that the enfeeble couldn't be reapplied right after we used up our precious ward to remove it.


Stunga:
Providing us with AOE stun on a blood pact doesn't make sense to me. There's a few reasons why.

Stun is one of the fastest spells in the game; it's useful because it stops powerful job abilities very quickly. It also stops monsters from casting dangerous spells. Stun is not as useful when trying to stun dangerous spells that are being cast by sleepable mobs. This is because dangerous spells take a long time to cast, and sleep has a fairly short cast time. Sleep is preferred because it keeps the mob under control for longer while interrupting the spell. So, in short, stun's main purpose is to prevent nasty abilities.

Blood Pacts have a longer ability charge time than most nasty abilities that people use Stun for. This means that with the current ability charge time for avatars, you won't be able to prevent nasty abilities with this bloodpact. Granted, you'll still be able to stop nasty spells from being casted, but if you're trying to do that, then you're better of using Shiva's sleepga. The only other reason for having this spell would be to stop mobs from moving that cant be put to sleep, i.e. if someone cast Diaga on everything and you're trying to keep your black mage from dying who tried to sleepga everything previously. Even in that situation it'd take so long to summon Ramuh and use stunga that your black mage would die before Ramuh was even on the field.

I think there's only one thing that you can do to Stunga to make it a useful blood pact. And that would be to make it so the stun duration was equivalent to the stun duration of Geocrush and Chaotic Strike. This would still only make it marginally useful, as in most situations of aoe enfeebling, you're better off using Sleepga. Another option would be to make Stunga instant, then you could actually stun nasty monster abilities.

I fear for the usefulness of Stunga, so I'll throw something else out on the table. You guys are looking for a ward pact for Ramuh because well, he doesn't have one, and you just gave all of the other Celestials one, and you don't want him to feel left out. Consider this, you gave Leviathan Slowga (even though it's earth based); you gave Shiva Sleepga (even though it's dark based). Why not give Ramuh an aoe enfeeble that's not thunder based, but that's similar enough that you can pull it off?

How about Paralyga? You made it so that his thunderspark has an additional effect of paralyze, the problem with that is that no one uses this pact because it does damage. And as we all know, if you're fighting more than one mob and you're trying to control them, they're asleep. And of course, damage breaks sleep, which is bad because then your black mages die, so thunderspark isn't used. I think paralyga would make a wonderful addition to our repritoire. Or, if you think we already have enough paralyzing BPs (Crescent Fang, Thunderspark, Ice Spikes), then why not try something akin to Diamond Storm or Tidal Roar? Thunder is correlated to DEX and Acc, why not have an AOE Acc down pact? Oh right, we already have one of those (Lunar Cry); oh well, do what you did with Diamond Storm and just make it more potent. Or hey, here's a cool idea, make a ward that makes critical strikes more potent. That would go very well with Ramuh's Favor.

Anyway, I know this was a little long, but please consider those points when finishing the blood pacts.

Thanks for your time

[Soundwave]

I thought this was well though out.

[Tarage]

Stunga is a horrible idea that won't get used at all.

[SpankWustler]

Stun-ga sounds really awesome at first, then you remember it's a Blood Pact. By the time Ramuh feels like using it, you and everyone you care about will be fulminated, paralyzed, and possibly dead.

Consoling Ruby sounds pretty good, though, if it's comparable to Esuna under the effects of Afflatus Misery.

[Dallas]

No, I have not given up...I only had to go off by what little you said so I had to assume unfortunately.

Yes I do know how to Stun-lock so now I have to ask because in your recent post you didn't specify exactly.

Are you trying to say

A. One smn will be able to stun lock a mob using your countless MP pool, and "assuming" you know "exactly" how SE's new BP timer JA will work?

or

B. Multiple summoners attempt to Stun lock with an army of Ramuh and hopping that the stun will land in time due to how all other BP work in extenuation of the BP?

Or possible

C. Something random you know that you wont say that I can't think of atm.

Until you answer A,B, or C I can't respond your post adequately.

Let's go with C, but all 3 work. I had in mind Chaotic Strike and Headbutt from SMN/BLU while stun-locking a crowd, with Myrkr paying for it.

Obviously we have no idea how the timer reset works. It's speculation time. We're all going to be very wrong.

[Soundwave]

Speculation has already begun with the new timer reset, I think you spent most of your time battling with everybody about melee blah blah blah.

No offense.

[Korpg]

Let's go with C, but all 3 work. I had in mind Chaotic Strike and Headbutt from SMN/BLU while stun-locking a crowd, with Myrkr paying for it.


Dallas.....you don't know anything about Blue Mage either, so why are you bringing Blue Mage into the conversation.

Head Butt's stun is dependent on the skill level of the Blue Magic skill, meaning that BLUs are able to stun a lot better than /BLU. That is why you don't see many /BLUs out there, specially zerging stuff because you can't really land stun with Head Butt at all.

Play this game before you spout your nonsense. It is quotes like these that signify that you don't even play this game anymore, much less SMN.

[Soundwave]

Dallas.....you don't know anything about Blue Mage either, so why are you bringing Blue Mage into the conversation.

Head Butt's stun is dependent on the skill level of the Blue Magic skill, meaning that BLUs are able to stun a lot better than /BLU. That is why you don't see many /BLUs out there, specially zerging stuff because you can't really land stun with Head Butt at all.

Play this game before you spout your nonsense. It is quotes like these that signify that you don't even play this game anymore, much less SMN.

I was gonna reply about /blu on smn but you beat me to it.

[Dallas]

BTW, for shinier pets (all pet jobs):

1) More "pet: Haste" gear, preferably on the same gear as player haste. 8% player haste on the head slot is WAY better than 5% pet haste, for example. 5% Player + 5% Pet Haste *might* be a good trade-off.
2) More "pet: -physical damage taken" gear. We proved we love that option to a fault.
3) "Pet: Subtle Blow" gear... invent it!

This has been complained about a thousand times, but never addressed by SE. Would it hurt to make the following fix to favor?*** do not reset favor when using weakened BPs. Thats a double penalty. ***

[Korpg]

Somehow, I don't think that SE will do that.

Although more pet haste would be great, I don't see them combining the two types of haste (one for pets, one for players) into one, with the sole exception of PUP, and only because they are both technically melees. BST too, they should get Haste/Pet: Haste. DRGs probably don't need it because they can already control when the wyvern gets to use its breath attack/healing breath. SMNs don't really need haste gear for both avatar and player, but I won't say no to an avatar haste gear (like for legs, gloves, belt, back, or earring).

[Soundwave]

Carbuncle: Soothing Ruby* Lv94
　　Remove multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.**

Ramuh: Shock Squall* Lv92
　　Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

This was updated with new BP:W names. Not that it makes any difference but hey.

So....Shock Squall? lol

[Dallas]

I was gonna reply about /blu on smn
Next time, just do it.

[Soundwave]

Next time, just do it.

I can't always give the people what they want.

[Tarage]

Okay seriously. Stunga by any other name is still stupid.

Stop pushing stunga. We don't want it.

[Miera]

Yeeah, it is really useless... How about a spell that gives you a Crit percent boost for a certain period of time? like..

20+% for the duration of however much SMN magic skill you have, that sounds better yeah? Can't go wrong with more Crit.. Or Crit hit damage percent

Or Give an avatar the ability to inflict terror... or amnesia

Maybe give a Ward that gives regain...

edit

[Dallas]

Miera, you want Ramuh's Favor... lol.

[Miera]

Ramuh's Favor is just a chance to crit but not Crit ht damage I believe.

Besides his Favor decays every time you use a Blood pact and t starts back over again.

[Dallas]

Post #324.

Without that fix, crit damage would be worse than crit rate. Better to stand there and look pretty.

[Miera]

It's a better idea than Stunga.

[Tarage]

I'm waiting for Korpg or Dallas to say they want Stunga.

[Dallas]

I'm waiting for Korpg or Dallas to say they want Stunga.

Post #285. Chaotic Strike has a particularly long stun. I'm hopeful for a L95 BP.

[Korpg]

I'm waiting for Korpg or Dallas to say they want Stunga.

Only if Stunga actually does 20 seconds or longer, then it might be worth using that BP.

[Mayoyama]

How about people just sit tight and see what the delay on the stun will be before you go flapping off about how crap its gonna be (ppl just love playing devils advocate... lol), and even if there is a bit of a delay its still useful for bigger spells on magic casting mobs so its going to be far from 'useless', just situational.. but really, what SMN BP isnt situational anyway?

[Xanaduu]

just wondering, is it actually a "stunga" or is it gonna be a terror effect? they basically the same though terror seems more potent~

[SpankWustler]

How about people just sit tight and see what the delay on the stun will be before you go flapping off about how crap its gonna be

Given that it's a Blood Pact, it's already clear that the delay will be too long to stun a monster's abilities. Even if it were instant, unlike literally every Blood Pact already in the game, it would still have too many draw-backs to be worthwhile. You would have to sit with Ramuh out, Ramuh would have to be within range so he wouldn't spend time leisurely floating towards the monster, and you would need to reserve your Ward recast for one singular purpose.

So, yeah, I'd say people already know enough to complain. Unless the Stun effect lasts 5-10 seconds, making it more of a crowd control ability than a quick interruption ability.

[Leonlionheart]

If Stun from ramuh goes off the moment you use BP:Ward then it'll be nice. Like no waiting for ramuh to ready it.

If not, GTFO BAD IDEA.

[Malamasala]

You need 100% TP to WS, your avatar doesn't need any TP to BP.

Meditate gives you 60/160 TP (depending on job/gear).
Mana Cede gives your avatar 100/200 TP (depending on gear).

Meditate is 12 TP per tick over time.
Mana Cede is instantaneous.

There is no similarity between the two unless you want to say that they both give TP. That is a poor excuse to compare the two. That is like comparing Warcry with Berserk, just because you can have attack on both, even though they are completely different in every other way except giving you attack.

I can't try to look at anything positive about any of your posts because they are dripping, literally dripping, with negativity. Nobody has shot your cat, so stop being all emo about it. You give me nothing to look at that is positive at your posts at all.

How about I compare Warcry to Crimson Howl?

Oh wait, they are so vastly different.

Warcry is a job ability
Crimson Howl is a pet command

Warcry is a melee ability
Crimson Howl is a mage ability (it uses MP)

Warcry is centered on the character.
Crimson Howl is centered on pet.

Warcry gives enmity.
Crimson Howl does not.

Ah darn it! I can't even compare Warcry and Crimson Howl because they are so different.

But wait a moment... isn't the point of comparing things to point out differences? Surely comparing items is not about reaching the conclusion "They are identical"?

PS. You can't say WAR tanks better than PLD because the jobs aren't the same. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

[Genoxd]

Hello!

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Carbuncle: Soothing Ruby* Lv94
　　Remove multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.**

Ramuh: Shock Squall* Lv92
　　Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

We would like to make adjustments to avatars so that they can shine brighter than they do currently, so keep the feedback coming!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
(**Currently testing and adjusting this in order to enhance the conveniences it offers over that found when using Spring Water.)
*Updated with in-development terminology at 7:22pm PDT

Cool a reason to use Carbuncle again, and the other is situational but could be nice.

I hope the dev team is aiming to add new attacks too. I miss the old FFs where summons were high damage attacks. I understand that we generate almost no enmity, and our damage out put has increased significantly, however we're still lacking a lot when you look at an Unkon WAR critting for over 1k. I think if no change happens to either the max DMG of BPs or the DoT from physical hits, then at the very least Hvergelmir's aftermath should include avatars (at least their melee hits, though I see no reason to not include BPs with a 45sec recast and not a 100% chance to proc.) That said, there should be some bonus for BLM too.

[Razushu]

Wow I had no idea I was the only one who liked Ramu's Choatic Strike for stun lol. I've never had much problem stunning things like mob AMs and -agas, although I am talking from a solo standpoint, where you only need to stay out of range, and only stun the things that will do 50%~ damage to your Avatar. This new aility could still be useful even with the activation delay if it has a long duration, or even better a long duration w/ a status affliction to the mobs that makes them become randomly stunned for a time after.

[Miera]

Can you guys look into being able to at least merit BP Recast Timers? Or at least for the higher amount of Summoning Magic skill you have the less the timer is?

[Razushu]

Pet-related Additions and Adjustments

Beastmaster
New familiars will be introduced.

Dragoon
The amount of damage wyverns take will be reduced.

Puppetmaster
Automatons will gain the job trait Subtle Blow.Pet-related Additions and Adjustments



Any chance you devs are missing a job here? /em crosses fingers

[Karbuncle]

Any chance you devs are missing a job here? /em crosses fingers


Summoner
The Perpetuation Cost of all Avatars will be increased by 1
Everything you do will continue to be done better by other jobs
Earthern Ward update? lol, No.

Nah, they didn't forget

[Razushu]

Nah, they didn't forget

LOL. All joking aside though I hope this isn't all we're getting this update, it's very.... underwhelming.

[Malamasala]

Nah, they didn't forget

You stole my post :(

[Razushu]

I'm really hoping this isn't all there is for the next update...

[Karbuncle]

I'm sure this is all in regards to Job Adjustments. Likely saving the decent stuff for level 99+. Still, i am a bit underwhelmed, But i didn't expect a lot in the first place.

I'm just ready for more update notes now :|

[Miera]

5 whole levels and only two Blood Pacts . ;o

I did readeth it right, right?

[Korpg]

How about I compare Warcry to Crimson Howl?

Oh wait, they are so vastly different.

Warcry is a job ability
Crimson Howl is a pet command

Warcry is a melee ability
Crimson Howl is a mage ability (it uses MP)

Warcry is centered on the character.
Crimson Howl is centered on pet.

Warcry gives enmity.
Crimson Howl does not.

Ah darn it! I can't even compare Warcry and Crimson Howl because they are so different.

What is Crimson Howl? Oh yeah, Warcry. It acts the same as Warcry (it is centered around the thing that used it, be it player or pet), it gives the same % of attack+, the only real difference is the length of time it stays on effect. Also, lets not forget that Warcry is instantaneous while Crimson Howl has to be charged and can be stuned.


But wait a moment... isn't the point of comparing things to point out differences? Surely comparing items is not about reaching the conclusion "They are identical"?

When 51% of the two items in comparison are the same (same texture, same look, same effect, same duration, same wording, etc) then they are identical. When 51% of the two items in comparison are different (different texture, different look, different effect, different duration, different wording, different ability, etc) then they are different. I guess you didn't know how to compare, you must have skipped that lesson in preschool. Maybe you should take that class again, it might help with your reading also.



PS. You can't say WAR tanks better than PLD because the jobs aren't the same. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

But you can. The topic is tanking ability. While PLD has a longer survivability trait (able to cure itself, have that nice ability to reduce the amount of damage it takes, 2hr prevents all Physical Damage taken) WAR can be a better tank due to keeping hate, which is what being a tank is all about. WAR also has better damage mitigation abilities with /SAM or /NIN than PLD/WAR has, which sadly is what most PLDs go as for lolprovoke.

When the topic is determining which job is the better at doing one thing (in your case, tanking) then yes, you can compare between the two.

You really need to go back to preschool and attend that class on comparing that you have obviously skipped.

[Soundwave]

I'm surprised they did not say anything about Caitsith or Atomos in all those notes......

Camate, any word on the new avatars and what they will be doing exactly, BP: Rage etc.?

[Korpg]

I'm surprised they did not say anything about Caitsith or Atomos in all those notes......

Camate, any word on the new avatars and what they will be doing exactly, BP: Rage etc.?

I just noticed that also. Yeah, what's up with the 2 new avatars?

[Soundwave]

I just noticed that also. Yeah, what's up with the 2 new avatars?

Maybe they are for level 96-99?:mad:

[Malamasala]

You really need to go back to preschool and attend that class on comparing that you have obviously skipped.

Yea, I'm so dumb. Please give me all permutations of accepted job ability comparisons. I don't want to make a fool of myself again, so it is best you list all abilities that are comparable to each other. Since I always get it wrong, I guess there are only like 3 or so abilities you are allowed to compare perhaps?

[Korpg]

Yea, I'm so dumb. Please give me all permutations of accepted job ability comparisons. I don't want to make a fool of myself again, so it is best you list all abilities that are comparable to each other.

Naw, instead, why don't you just not compare anything until you actually know how to compare.

[Dallas]

Mala, you forget... the only allowed comparison is melee SMN solo against voidwatch NM versus Ukon WAR with full party haste fighting 10 TW mandies.

[Soranika]

Remember how long it took us to get Odin and Alexander. Let's give them another 2-3 years before they mention Cait Sith and Atomos again.

[Soundwave]

True it did take forever, however they finally said something in a timely manner for cat/atomos.

Fenrir Sometime in 2004
Diabolos 12/12/2005
Alex/Odin 3/22/2010
Cat/Atomos Sometime 2011

------------------------------

Also...

Sombody posted that the two BP dats are...
Carby:ROM/262/118
ramuh: ROM/262/119

The part that interested me was the fact Ramuh stun(sound) was surprising fairly long, not sure if its a glitch but I guess hear it for yourself.

This does not warrant any truth on how long it will last but just thought it was interesting.

[Malamasala]

Naw, instead, why don't you just not compare anything until you actually know how to compare.

No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

[Korpg]

No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

But yet, you said this:


PS. You can't say WAR tanks better than PLD because the jobs aren't the same. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

You don't know anything about comparison. I even explained it to you, which I highly doubt you would understand either..

You don't know how to compare anything. So, you should stop trying.

[Soundwave]

Cat/Atomos 96+ SE?????:rolleyes:

[Leonlionheart]

No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

[Malamasala]

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

I was waiting for this post. And I must say I haven't called anyone a troll before Korpg, and I promise you that plenty of people have disagreed with me. So consider your myth busted.

[Korpg]

I was waiting for this post. And I must say I haven't called anyone a troll before Korpg, and I promise you that plenty of people have disagreed with me. So consider your myth busted.

Incoming woosh.

Besides, basically I don't agree with you, so I must be trolling you. That is your argument, you know.

Unless I provoked an emotional response whereas you were lying in bed crying for hours over our disagreement, then I'm sorry, that was not intentional, but I did troll you. And in that case, grow a set.

[Neonii]

I want to read about the smn job manifesto on this thread. Why don't one of you make a thread called something like debate vs. trolling and carry on your argument over there? It's not fair to the rest of the summoners for the same people to derail every thread. How about being considerate of the rest of us?

[Soranika]

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.
Generally the way it seems to work around here.

[Neonii]

Most of these discussions between folks about who is trolling who are personal. I think their personal disagreements are none of my business. I just want to read the forums without having to wade through tons of the same arguments between individuals. Is that asking to much?

Edit: Of the 10 post on this page 6 are directly about who is trolling who.

[Miera]

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTi7oOPaB4Y&feature=related

[Neonii]

About that ignore feature =).

[Soranika]

Useful is it? Wouldn't have all these arguments if some people didn't have this religious belief that their away of playing is the only way the game should played and all other ways are considered blasphemy. It kills the diversity of how each person chooses to play the job they want and actually enjoy it. It's a game, not a chore or a job. It's suppose to be enjoyed to play however you choose too so don't hang it over some ones head because you "play better".

And inb4 good luck finding a party with whack subjob/equipment. Hard enough to find a party as it is.

[Malamasala]

It is a shame Camate never can drop by and tell us stuff like "I informed them about idea X, and the developers seemed to like it". It would have been rather nice considering they asked for feedback.

[Korpg]

It is a shame Camate never can drop by and tell us stuff like "I informed them about idea X, and the developers seemed to like it". It would have been rather nice considering they asked for feedback.

Maybe everyone hates your ideas then? Could be that.

[Dallas]

I want to read about the smn job manifesto on this thread. Why don't one of you make a thread called something like debate vs. trolling and carry on your argument over there? It's not fair to the rest of the summoners for the same people to derail every thread. How about being considerate of the rest of us?

Pfft, I didn't want to reveal this so early... but we're really all the same poster... you included.

[Soundwave]

Come on guys give it a rest ._.;; Lets get back on topic ya?


Ramuh: Shock Squall* Lv92
Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

Camate, can they give us any spesific info on how long the duration will be, and is this a instant cast BP?

Thanks!:D

[Dallas]

I'll start, HEY SE, you totally disappointed us with Dark Ixion... give us our pony!

[Soundwave]

I'll start, HEY SE, you totally disappointed us with Dark Ixion... give us our pony!

Terrible start. You can do worse than that. Anyways....

[Dallas]

Yes, but how long has it been since SMN has complained about not getting our pony? Too long.

[Malamasala]

Come on guys give it a rest ._.;; Lets get back on topic ya?



Camate, can they give us any spesific info on how long the duration will be, and is this a instant cast BP?

Thanks!:D

I don't see why they would change the system for functionality when the theme with Summoner is "Cool stuff implemented wrong". It will obviously have the same ready timer as everything else. Too hard to code special behavior for single pacts. Not to mention this will will 99% of the time be used to stun single target NMs casting AM and such, and it will cost us those times 128 MP or so to use the ability because it is an AOE move.

Sometimes I wish SE gave Summoner a trait that returned MP if an AOE move didn't hit at least 3 targets. (Not including avatar). That way we'd pay the same price as a RDM or WHM or other mage for single target buffs, while we'd be slightly ahead of /SCHs in MP efficiency for a whole party.

[Korpg]

Mala, stop being so negative.

SMN is a great job, you just need to play it to realize what is good about it. Yeah, Blood Pacts have a global timer, but when do you change avatars between pacts anyway? If they didn't have a global BP timer, then what is keeping the SMN from Summon > BP > Release > Summon > BP > Release?

Yeah, Ramuh's BP will be -ga, but that is ok when you are fighting multiple mobs at the same time and need to stun them all for the BLM to be able to sleep them all. I can see the possibilities of having 2 stuns without having to worry about 2 different types of accuracy (with BLU) and more than one version of stun every 45 seconds (Weapon Bash and Stun for DRK takes longer than 2 BPs).

Also, about your trait, that wouldn't work because SMN is also a solo job (you would have realized that if you actually played it) so your "trait" wouldn't be effective for those who actually play as SMN.

[Silvers]

Like many of you, I wonder on the practicality of this Stunga move which will be directly related to how fast the move will fire. Given the potency of previous added blood pacts, I would expect Shock Squall to be strong as well (at least being on par with what some of the stronger NMs are able to do). If the new job ability planned for SMN will allow us to reduce the ready time as well as the recast for BPs, then Shock Squall will be a very welcome addition to our repertoire. I will reserve judgment until we received more information and/or get a chance to put it through its paces. I can't say I'm too excited about a Stunga for SMN, I personally would have liked to seen an amnesia BP.

[Korpg]

Amnesia is fire element, they would have given that to Ifrit.

[Malamasala]

SE could invent some kind of snapshot effect for certain pacts. But you'd miss out on the gear swaps. So it is a choice between stunning stuff or getting better stun accuracy.

[Silvers]

Amnesia is fire element, they would have given that to Ifrit.

Like SE has never given BP moves having effects and abilities on Avatars of a different element than thier normal associated element before...

Titan and Stun via Geocrush
Shiva and Sleepga
Ramuh and Paralyze via Thunderspark
Leviathan and Slowga
Diablos and Gravity via Somnolence

You have been playing SMN for a while now? Have these things slipped your mind? You cannot just assume who you think they would of given it to (though your choice make sense and would be a practical one), but that line has already been crossed of not using the obvious Avatar for an ability due to normal element association. They could do it again.

[Korpg]

Like SE has never given BP moves having effects and abilities on Avatars of a different element than thier normal associated element before...

Titan and Stun via Geocrush
Shiva and Sleepga
Ramuh and Paralyze via Thunderspark
Leviathan and Slowga
Diablos and Gravity via Somnolence

You have been playing SMN for a while now? Have these things slipped your mind? You cannot just assume who you think they would of given it to (though your choice make sense and would be a practical one), but that line has already been crossed of not using the obvious Avatar for an ability due to normal element association. They could do it again.

True, but those blood pacts have been there since SMN was first made. They have been keeping with the element affinity with the avatars as of late (Geocrush with the added effect of stun is just an added effect, not really a reliable stun move).

Almost all BPs have been keeping up with the element with the effect as of late. And most of it was effects you can't get anywhere else (evasion down, attack down mostly, which, if you think about it, still coincides the opposites of the evasion up/attack up effects (fire = attack up, water = attack down, wind = evasion up, ice = evasion down)). It would still make sense if Ifrit gets amnesia effect.

[Dallas]

SMN better not complain like RDM, or SE may make Stunga self-only as well...

[Razushu]

True, but those blood pacts have been there since SMN was first made. They have been keeping with the element affinity with the avatars as of late (Geocrush with the added effect of stun is just an added effect, not really a reliable stun move).

Almost all BPs have been keeping up with the element with the effect as of late. And most of it was effects you can't get anywhere else (evasion down, attack down mostly, which, if you think about it, still coincides the opposites of the evasion up/attack up effects (fire = attack up, water = attack down, wind = evasion up, ice = evasion down)). It would still make sense if Ifrit gets amnesia effect.

It would make sense, but SMN was never one to be tied down by sense lol.

I hope the change Soothing Ruby to heal HP too, or I can see it being used once, and even that's only to see what it looks like.

[Soranika]

SE must still be thinking about SMN in campaign battles. These are AoEs that would have been LOVED when people were more active in the wotg areas. They help in Bastion in Scars of Abyssea, but there isn't enough like that. I haven't read the WoE update notes but they 'might' be useful there if more people are doing them after the update.

[Malamasala]

Pacts hitting whole alliances would have been nice. Sadly CORs and BRDs would complain too much.

[Razushu]

Pacts hitting whole alliances would have been nice. Sadly CORs and BRDs would complain too much.

When their buffs cost large chunks of MP then they can complain about us lol. That being said, I can't imagine trying to line up 17 people for haste, and retaining much of my sanity for long.

[Tannlore]

When their buffs cost large chunks of MP then they can complain about us lol. That being said, I can't imagine trying to line up 17 people for haste, and retaining much of my sanity for long.

The solution to this is simple: Make the BP ward range larger. Zone-wide should be enough *grins all evil like*

[Razushu]

The solution to this is simple: Make the BP ward range larger. Zone-wide should be enough *grins all evil like*

Thay would be hilarious, we could randomly sit in an area freaking people out by spamming glittering ruby.

[Malamasala]

I still wish SE had given SMN the ability to summon people in party to their location. Shame they took that idea and made a new armor out of it to give as rewards. Reverse D2 sounded like such a funny ability to gain "popularity" with the job. "Need to have 1 SMN with us to refill our ally!" would be the saying for all parties.

Well, you can't really summon them until they are in the same region so not that amazing. But apparently amazing enough for SE to give it a long recast instead of just some 150 MP + 20 seconds casting time.

[Camate]

While some fine tuning is still being performed, the stats for abilities to be introduced in the upcoming version update have been pretty solidified, so here is some follow up information.



Carbuncle: Soothing Ruby (Lv. 94)
Removes multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.


Depending on the level of your summoning magic skill, the number of status ailments removed will vary.

Currently the below is planned:

　 1-100：1
101-200：2
201-300：3
301-400：4
401-500：5
501~　 : 6 (Imagining this to be the cap for the future)



Ramuh: Shock Squall (Lv. 92)
Temporarily prevents all enemies within area of effect from acting.

We are planning to set the enmity generated by this to be high.
We are also planning to make the effect duration have a certain range, but we are making adjustments to make it roughly double that of the magic spell “Stun.”

One more thing, please understand that Cait Sith and Atomos are planned for the future.

We will not be implementing every single bit of content planned for the future in the upcoming version update. We’d like to get a wide variety of feedback for all the types of information we bring you, whether they be solidified plans to be implemented immediately, plans only at the discussion phase, or things way out in the future, so we will try our best to give you a lot of information about future content.

[Malamasala]

A moment there you had me at "removing ailments generates a ton of hate", but it is obviously the stunga ability you meant to quote. No party hitting pact generates any enmity.

Will the other wards get similar scaling adjustments? I'd really like to see for example phalanx scale instead of being -15 damage all levels.

[Leonlionheart]

Holy crap, that just made the already best DD in Voidwatch even more valuable.

All those NMs that cast every single AoE debuff in the game, say hello to Carbuncle.

[Camate]

A moment there you had me at "removing ailments generates a ton of hate", but it is obviously the stunga ability you meant to quote. No party hitting pact generates any enmity.

Will the other wards get similar scaling adjustments? I'd really like to see for example phalanx scale instead of being -15 damage all levels.

Fixed that, sorry!!

[Kimara]

Fixed that, sorry!!


Thanks for the info as always! Can't wait :D!

[Malamasala]

Holy crap, that just made the already best DD in Voidwatch even more valuable.

All those NMs that cast every single AoE debuff in the game, say hello to Carbuncle.

I actually like it. Always wanted SMN to be the best "defensive" support class, since it looks like SE is giving it such tools. I've usually just been unhappy with how inefficient the tools were. Like Aerial armor being 50% chance to dodge shadows, instead of 100% utsusemi. Or how Fenrir pacts depended on moon phase so you only were helpful certain hours each week.

Of course Alexander alone makes it the best defensive support, but I prefer being it more than once every 2 hours.

[Alkar]

I'm really hoping Shock Squall will have an instant cast like Stun does. Summoner already has a delay when using Blood Pacts and if you add the avatar reading the ability on top of that it'd just be too much for a BP that's meant to be used on reaction and quickly.
Carbuncle's BP looks solid at least, that's a relief.

[Tannlore]

While some fine tuning is still being performed, the stats for abilities to be introduced in the upcoming version update have been pretty solidified, so here is some follow up information.



Depending on the level of your summoning magic skill, the number of status ailments removed will vary.

Currently the below is planned:

　 1-100：1
101-200：2
201-300：3
301-400：4
401-500：5
501~　 : 6 (Imagining this to be the cap for the future)



We are planning to set the enmity generated by this to be high.
We are also planning to make the effect duration have a certain range, but we are making adjustments to make it roughly double that of the magic spell “Stun.”

One more thing, please understand that Cait Sith and Atomos are planned for the future.

We will not be implementing every single bit of content planned for the future in the upcoming version update. We’d like to get a wide variety of feedback for all the types of information we bring you, whether they be solidified plans to be implemented immediately, plans only at the discussion phase, or things way out in the future, so we will try our best to give you a lot of information about future content.

Camate....

You make me have bittersweet feelings when you post. Good things 'bout pacts but sad things about avatars. *tugs at your pompom*

I like the details about Carbuncle.. no I love it actually. Already at 5 ailments removed as I stand now with my skill, this will make things very nice indeed.

Now This stunga lasting twice as long as stun? Hmmm... that might begin to make up for a long charge time (I'm one of those that highly doubts it will not have one).

But boo at Cait Sith and Atomos.... Boo I say!

Oh and while I'm at it....

What's under that turban anyhow? *sneaks a peek under there*

[Ciecle]

aww... i leveled summoner for cait sith... and as i read that right, we're not getting her till later?...

[Soundwave]

While some fine tuning is still being performed, the stats for abilities to be introduced in the upcoming version update have been pretty solidified, so here is some follow up information.



Depending on the level of your summoning magic skill, the number of status ailments removed will vary.

Currently the below is planned:

　 1-100：1
101-200：2
201-300：3
301-400：4
401-500：5
501~　 : 6 (Imagining this to be the cap for the future)



We are planning to set the enmity generated by this to be high.
We are also planning to make the effect duration have a certain range, but we are making adjustments to make it roughly double that of the magic spell “Stun.”

One more thing, please understand that Cait Sith and Atomos are planned for the future.

We will not be implementing every single bit of content planned for the future in the upcoming version update. We’d like to get a wide variety of feedback for all the types of information we bring you, whether they be solidified plans to be implemented immediately, plans only at the discussion phase, or things way out in the future, so we will try our best to give you a lot of information about future content.

Thanks for the info Camate

I enjoy whats being done with these BP for all summoners, I just wish I had a use for them myself....I might find a use for Shock Squall but I don't see me using Soothing Ruby due to I'm mainly solo play with no VW Linkshell or other type of event. But that's my fault of course.

Avatars Fatcat/Atomos

Had a feeling they are for 96+ and of course us beggars can't be choosers, so you'll release the avatars when the times right!

Shock Squall

With Shock Squall having extra hate just sounds weird...I dunno what to make of this yet.

Soothing Ruby

Back to Soothing Ruby, It's also hard to give feedback not knowing fine details on this new ability that lowers recast for BP. If a mob spams enfeebles and depending on how low we can get our recast set I feel Soothing Ruby may not be up to par for clearing enfeebles?

[Soranika]

I actually like the ideal of soothing ruby ability to erase ailments. Most dedicated SMNs, by these notes, can instantly wipe away 5. This is VERY useful against NMs who like to cause multiple status ailments and a possible relief effort on behalf of WHM and their limit to erasing two at the most (With Erase/Esuna while under the effect of Aff. Misery.) It does lose it's usage when mobs and NMs like to continually spam multiple status effects.

I'm still not sold on stunga properties of shock squall. Enmity gain would actually be easy to deal with unless it's resisted. If that be the case then SMN wouldn't be able to release Ramuh without attracting hate to themselves. I honestly can't see a party relying on a SMN to stun when BLM/SCH, SCH/BLM been doing it for a long time now. A slightly longer period of stun isn't very helpful if you're late stunning a fatal party/alliance wiping attack because of Avatar's readying delay.

On Cait Sith and Atomos, I'm not the least bit surprised that they aren't ready yet. At the very least, SE basically gave people incentive to hurry and finish WotG if they haven't all ready because they want to be ready for the new avatars. (Either to summon, new equipment or both.)

[Dallas]

High enmity on an AOE Ward pact is very good news for SMN. I hope the enmity levels are VERY high.

[Soundwave]

High enmity on an AOE Ward pact is very good news for SMN. I hope the enmity levels are VERY high.

???????????????

At least give a reason/explain a bit before dropping a line that has no answer to your own response.

Only response your going to get is...."Why"

[Karbuncle]

???????????????

At least give a reason/explain a bit before dropping a line that has no answer to your own response.

Only response your going to get is...."Why"

Using it as a hate tool to have Ramuh Tank multiple Enemies? Seems like a decent reason. Ramuh is disposable, could really help in some situations.

I dunno if it'd be much help solo, but i could see it being quite useful.

[Soundwave]

Hmmmm, apparently I'm not thinking outside the box tonight...

Well if solo, depending how mobs aggro to you, or if you accidentally stun one, once dead or released all mobs should de-agrro.

In a alliance situation I don't see the summoner pulling much hate off blm's sleep, as well not knowing how much hate this is going to create.

It's not really said if hate is coming from the summoner or avatar....however I'll assume the summoner.

With that being said, it will be somewhat annoying to summon an avatar, and watch it run to the mob who u have most hate on and wake it up etc. while your trying to do another BP. Grrrr...

**Edit

Sorry didn't they make sleep generate less hate now? I can't recall.

[Malamasala]

Using it as a hate tool to have Ramuh Tank multiple Enemies? Seems like a decent reason. Ramuh is disposable, could really help in some situations.

I dunno if it'd be much help solo, but i could see it being quite useful.

Ramuh can't survive tanking multiple mobs. Only scenario that pans out well seem to be BLMs sleepga + Ramuh shock squall for having all woken mobs chase the avatar instead of BLMs. This is because Ramuh won't have to take a beating and the enmity needs a certain level to remove hate from others. On pure links and such you'd do fine with 1 enmity on monsters since nobody else has any.

[Alhanelem]

Holy crap, that just made the already best DD in Voidwatch even more valuable.Errr, what? I know that with these NMs, the hateless spike damage comes in handy once again (harken back to the days of old, yo!), but is it really so hard to do damage with any other job that SMN ends up being so up there? What about ranged? will ranger trick attack give them a strong spot here?

Genuine question. I have honestly yet to even touch voidwatch.

[SpankWustler]

Errr, what? I know that with these NMs, the hateless spike damage comes in handy once again (harken back to the days of old, yo!), but is it really so hard to do damage with any other job that SMN ends up being so up there? What about ranged? will ranger trick attack give them a strong spot here?

I'd say Summoner's niche in Voidwatch doesn't come from the raw damage so much as the perks that come with a Summoner's damage.

It's partly the other things Summoner can do beyond damage (Earthen Armor), and partly that they give the monster no TP (less useful if the monster has Regain, but sometimes valid). They also never require any attention from the support. Summoner is amazing in every way for fights where you want to play it very safe, and with the addition of Soothing Ruby they'll have another tool for such situations.

[Dallas]

???????????????

At least give a reason/explain a bit before dropping a line that has no answer to your own response.

Only response your going to get is...."Why"
Cataclysm.

[Malamasala]

Genuine question. I have honestly yet to even touch voidwatch.

Depends on how you play. It is good for just plowing down the NM, but usually you want to trigger stuff. For this, SMN is terrible, and the only real gain is that you can easily get JA/WS hints every 10 seconds from your assault command.

I usually just stand and get trigger info by spamming dia/diaII/banish or Assault/Retreat until 50%, at which time I swap over to dealing damage.

I've attempted to trigger stuff with spirits but you know... subbing SCH is better than a spirit. An update to spirits would be nice so I could actually help trigger stuff on my main.

[Karbuncle]

Ramuh can't survive tanking multiple mobs. Only scenario that pans out well seem to be BLMs sleepga + Ramuh shock squall for having all woken mobs chase the avatar instead of BLMs. This is because Ramuh won't have to take a beating and the enmity needs a certain level to remove hate from others. On pure links and such you'd do fine with 1 enmity on monsters since nobody else has any.

Not sure, Can put up Shock Spikes before hand, Then have Stun-ga Ready, Shock spikes add more stun, keep him alive longer. He can tank pretty well in places like Abyssea, 87.5% PDT Goes a long way, and he's a bit more disposable than a WAR.

But as a side note, I see its biggest use as you stated, giving ramuh hate after a sleepga to give BLMs time to sleep again when mobs wake up.

It has uses, Just need to think hard of them.

[Malamasala]

He can tank pretty well in places like Abyssea, 87.5% PDT Goes a long way, and he's a bit more disposable than a WAR.

Probably. I tend to never use the PDT atmas because I'm so often in parties and it seems more motivated to deal damage than to attempt to steal hate from other jobs to tank.

[Korpg]

But as a side note, I see its biggest use as you stated, giving ramuh hate after a sleepga to give BLMs time to sleep again when mobs wake up.


Which is why they give Shock Squall such a high enmity gain. Sleepga still has a lot of enmity associated with it, but with all the enmity down gear a BLM wears, doesn't really give them that much enmity, at least enough enmity that a cure 4 would take away. So, they give AoE Stun higher enmity to give Ramuh all the hate and as long as Ramuh stays out, he will die way before any BLMs will.

[Dallas]

Probably. I tend to never use the PDT atmas because I'm so often in parties and it seems more motivated to deal damage than to attempt to steal hate from other jobs to tank.

Bet someone will kite multiple mobs solo with this.

[Tannlore]

Bet someone will kite multiple mobs solo with this.

Wonder if I can relive my days of swam kiting as a bard from EQ. lol

[Miera]

It has uses, Just need to think hard of them.
My only suggestion would be to use this to grab the attention of many mobs to de-aggro off people.

[Miera]

All those NMs that cast every single AoE debuff in the game, say hello to Carbuncle.

Does it get rid of Doom? Cause hat would be even more worthwhile. >.>

[Economizer]

Does it get rid of Doom? Cause hat would be even more worthwhile. >.>

Considering that SE pretty much told White Mages "lolno" to having Cursna have better odds of removing Doom based on Healing Magic Skill, and Benediction doesn't even have a 100% chance of removing Doom (I mean, WTF?!), I highly doubt that Summoners will have anything better then an enhanced chance of removing it.

[Soundwave]

My only suggestion would be to use this to grab the attention of many mobs to de-aggro off people.

This is the only thing I can see a main use of it, considering SE said all jobs adjustments will be focused on end game type of events etc.

Nice example would be Gurfurlur the Menacing adds

Also more curious to the actual AoE range of Shock Squall?

[Miera]

Considering that SE pretty much told White Mages "lolno" to having Cursna have better odds of removing Doom based on Healing Magic Skill, and Benediction doesn't even have a 100% chance of removing Doom (I mean, WTF?!), I highly doubt that Summoners will have anything better then an enhanced chance of removing it.

Ah, yeah guess it was asking for too much. :P

[Economizer]

Ah, yeah guess it was asking for too much. :P

Considering how much I hate Doom, I don't even care about game balance anymore. If a Summoner is what it takes to 100% remove it, I'll run with that.

I think what will probably happen is that, since it is on a pact timer, Summoners will have a better then single casting of Cursna change to remove Doom with this, but not 100% so that SE can teach Summoners the misery that White Mages have had to face for years.

Also, aside from on targets with multiple debuffs, Summoning Magic skill is probably going to have no affect on removal chances either. Also, it probably won't remove the effects of Enfeebling Songs, just like Esuna or Benediction can't. But all this is just my guess.

[Miera]

Yeah, I am pretty sure the new Ward will be as Limited as Spring Water is.

[Soundwave]

Considering how much I hate Doom, I don't even care about game balance anymore. If a Summoner is what it takes to 100% remove it, I'll run with that.

I think what will probably happen is that, since it is on a pact timer, Summoners will have a better then single casting of Cursna change to remove Doom with this, but not 100% so that SE can teach Summoners the misery that White Mages have had to face for years.

Also, aside from on targets with multiple debuffs, Summoning Magic skill is probably going to have no affect on removal chances either. Also, it probably won't remove the effects of Enfeebling Songs, just like Esuna or Benediction can't. But all this is just my guess.

The range is 1-100 skill per 1 Enfeeble why would they change it to chance now to get rid of doom?

As it was quoted...

Depending on the level of your summoning magic skill, the number of status ailments removed will vary.

Yes it will vary based on your summoning skill. If chance is the case here, then this is right up the ball park with BP's like Ecliptic growl etc.

[Dallas]

Wonder if I can relive my days of swam kiting as a bard from EQ. lol

It would be messy, but the hate followed by the long stun should give time to flee. I always hated retreat dual kiting.

[Economizer]

The range is 1-100 skill per 1 Enfeeble why would they change it to chance now to get rid of doom?


IF this new ability gets rid of Doom, I wouldn't expect it to have more then a chance of doing so. The skill has only been said to affect the amount of debuffs removed, not the success rate on debuffs with non-100% remove rates (basically, Doom).

With regard to skill, I was referring to the fact that Healing Magic skill has nothing to do with removal rates, unless we misunderstood what SE said for the White Mage Q&A.

I'm not even saying that Summoner shouldn't be able to remove this debuff, just that based on past enfeebling removal effects, I wouldn't expect the new ability to be any better then Benediction at removing debuffs.

[Soranika]

Field testing! Can I have it!? No point in anymore speculations, just wait for it to come out and go test.

[Korpg]

Field testing! Can I have it!? No point in anymore speculations, just wait for it to come out and go test.

Only problem comes from having Doom, and spamming that BP to get it removed. Which might be hard to do considering that even Cursna isn't higher than 33% or so with capped healing magic.

[Economizer]

Only problem comes from having Doom, and spamming that BP to get it removed. Which might be hard to do considering that even Cursna isn't higher than 33% or so with capped healing magic.

It is hard to tell, but in the White Mage manifesto, SE pretty much said that "no, skill does not and will not help" if I'm not mistaken. My capped healing magic never helped me remove the ailment any more then stacking as much haste as I could and getting lucky. For reference:



Make it so the chances of curing Doom increase with higher healing magic skill.

Since there is also Holy Water when curing this is difficult, we’d like to monitor the current rate. Though it depends on luck and repeated attempts, but the recovery rate was set rather high so it can be cured before the countdown timer reaches zero.

Of course, like half the Q&A, it was rather ambiguous, and between the lack of White Mages active on the forums and SE's attention permanently focused on other jobs, stuff like even something small like getting a clear answer about this is probably not going to happen.

-

I know this is all just speculation, but it is well educated speculation based on what SE has done in the past. If the bloodpact actually has a chance of removing Doom, I think it might be elevated over Cursna's chance (this would make sense, considering the longer BP timer)... of course, this may be asking for too much, as even the "mighty" Benediction has no more chance of removing Doom then Cursna does.

[Tannlore]

So Camate can we get some verification on doom and this BP please?

*Sets down a Séance table and puts the big crystal ball on it*

"Oooohh great SE devs... we call you to this table to answer our questions.... Tell us about Doom and Carby's new BP... Tell us please....."

[Razushu]

So Camate can we get some verification on doom and this BP please?

*Sets down a Séance table and puts the big crystal ball on it*

"Oooohh great SE devs... we call you to this table to answer our questions.... Tell us about Doom and Carby's new BP... Tell us please....."

Given the much higher recast, it would only be fair if Soothing Ruby had a higher %chance to remove doom than cursna.

[Tannlore]

Given the much higher recast, it would only be fair if Soothing Ruby had a higher %chance to remove doom than cursna.

Given SE's track record... I assume nothing until testing or they say otherwise.

[Razushu]

Given SE's track record... I assume nothing until testing or they say otherwise.

Yeah same here, just saying how it should work.

[Soundwave]

I bet all my gil it will not remove doom, if so....poor holy water prices.

[Soranika]

I can't imagine people ignoring holy waters for doom to use a SMN instead to be a doom cure slave. Well... maybe outside abyssea.

[Zemarin]

For example, we are thinking about something like, “reset the recast time by expending a set amount of MP.” As we have stated in the threads for other jobs, this is just one example.

There is a possibility of the effects being changed drastically, so please keep posting your feedback.

I really don't need a JA that eats more MP~ Unless its Like Hasso and just increase perp.cost by like 2-3 other then that what's the point? Make Elemental Siphon MP useless? Seriously Why not Make Defender eat Pld's HP, or Enmity Douse Cost MP for BLM? Or Hasso Steal HP... Or Velocity Shot Lock WS... I think its so Silly to add another MP cosuming JA on a Job that literally bleeds MP. At which point makes me wonder what was the point of Elemental Siphon....


We have no plans to add the “Stay” command outside of beastmasters.

Summoner needs it just as much as bst does but obviously SE u proved ur point ur point, even dragoon's PET WYVERN got more love from u then an avatar has... u simply think u can thro one wishy washy bp on in and its just gonna be good.


By implementing different stats for each avatar, we are afraid certain avatars will be selected disproportionately frequently and the variance of avatars will be limited. There is a possibility of being able to alter the stats of avatars by equipping gear, but basically we would like avatars to be chosen based on their elements.

And this is what hinders summoner probably the most... No Avatar really excels much at anything than the next,, all an avatar Identity determines is what BP's u can use... Unlike BST who can Have a certain Pet fullfill a Certain role. I can pretty much assume that was NOT the initial Idea behind SMN to begin with as well.. Otherwise what Was the point of the Spirits? This Is Simply SE's Sad idea of turning whatever job they can't fix so easily into a Gimped BLM Counterfit.


"I would like Blood Pacts to be changed to the charge format."
This would drastically change the operation of Blood Pacts, so we have no plans of making this change. We plan on adjusting the timing of Blood Pacts by adding an ability that shortens the recast time.

I agree to BP:Rage it might not be so smart, as per BP:Ward is concerned the timer has been most detrimental to it.. none of the buffs that come from avas are that good to make having a 60s recast on BP ward justified. It's what limits summoner's ability to contribute much of anything to a group, mainly cuz BP:Ward can be very unreliable esp at crucial moments.

Along with a whole other slew of Things... Avatar's ward needs a Change, I think more beneficial effects should come along with avatars favor....(Stats boost, acc boost, actual dmg mitigation, etc) .

Summoner needs the "Stay" Command.... in order to Make Favor Worthwhile.... otherwise get rid of Favor and just cut avatar costs.... please.

Last but not least What irks me the most is the inability to create light/darkness with Summons even tho I can create nearly any other SC

Also What about avatar MP? how come I can't utilize the Avatar's MP?

Maybe not use their mp for BP but to buff the Avatar or heal it or something, instead of having to have some temp. item that I can't have on me all the time.


• MP Consumption

The MP cost for Blood Pact: Ward abilities are set rather high because the effects they grant are AoE; however, they are designed to elicit a higher level of benefit when used to support a party.

Then we look at bard/cor which spends no mp and do better magic/phys dmg with better buffs then we look back to summoner and wonder what was this person smoking when he made this statement.

Anyways enough of that nonsense last thing I have to say is that out Avatar's NORMAL attack Damage and Delay is just Horrible.... seriously make me wanna gnaw my eyes out. I think DRG Wyverns can Out Damage Avatars in a heart beat.

[Malamasala]

Btw Camate. Can you get any word at all about the future of spirits?

Mainly wondering if the developers are aware nobody uses them and never has, except when they need to use Elemental Siphon. And as a follow up, if they want Summoners to use them or if they should be considered old abandoned content.

You've done a good job making Sky and Dynamis and other places active again. Could you manage to get spirits active again as well? There are mainly a few irks that cause them to become useless.

- Assaulting sets their spell timers to max. This prevents you from "preparing" for a battle by having a spirit out.
- The delay being 50 seconds base and then shortened by skill is a bit rough.

[Soundwave]

So what happens when spirits get updated and its not to your liking?

[Malamasala]

Only way they could make me dislike the update would be if they made them worse by making it "only during full moone" and "Costs 500 MP to cast paralyze" and similar updates. It is hard to make something worse than useless.

[Korpg]

Btw Camate. Can you get any word at all about the future of spirits?

Mainly wondering if the developers are aware nobody uses them and never has, except when they need to use Elemental Siphon. And as a follow up, if they want Summoners to use them or if they should be considered old abandoned content.

You've done a good job making Sky and Dynamis and other places active again. Could you manage to get spirits active again as well? There are mainly a few irks that cause them to become useless.

- Assaulting sets their spell timers to max. This prevents you from "preparing" for a battle by having a spirit out.
- The delay being 50 seconds base and then shortened by skill is a bit rough.

Bolded is what is implied. They were never there to be long term solution of being a SMN. So, they left it as is. If any SMN doesn't have all the avatars by the time they reach 75, then they are playing the job wrong.

Spirits are fine as they are, because they were not designed to be end-all in SMN. Just be glad that they haven't increased perp cost on them to keep them out when we do summon them for Elemental Siphon.

[Tannlore]

Bolded is what is implied. They were never there to be long term solution of being a SMN. So, they left it as is. If any SMN doesn't have all the avatars by the time they reach 75, then they are playing the job wrong.

Spirits are fine as they are, because they were not designed to be end-all in SMN. Just be glad that they haven't increased perp cost on them to keep them out when we do summon them for Elemental Siphon.

Exactly.

People seem to have forgotten, or just weren't around back then.... Spirits were there to fill the void when you didn't have all your avatars. Because frankly, back then, it was't easy to actually HAVE all your avatars. Siphon gave them a nice purpose again (Aside from a quick OMG summon something now so I live cause I got aggro lolwtfbbq1!!1!).

If they make any changes to these things, really it should be to update the AI to not spam the same Debuffs over and over (burn, burn burn burn burn burn.. oh yeah... fire 3!) and to add the newer high level spells to their repertoire. Making them closer to be on par with avatars? No thanks, no thanks in any shape, form, or way. We have avatars for a reason, they are our bread and butter. Let our spirits be our salt and pepper.... no our salt. Just enough for taste... too much and it's bad for you.

[Korpg]

Exactly.

People seem to have forgotten, or just weren't around back then.... Spirits were there to fill the void when you didn't have all your avatars. Because frankly, back then, it was't easy to actually HAVE all your avatars. Siphon gave them a nice purpose again (Aside from a quick OMG summon something now so I live cause I got aggro lolwtfbbq1!!1!).

If they make any changes to these things, really it should be to update the AI to not spam the same Debuffs over and over (burn, burn burn burn burn burn.. oh yeah... fire 3!) and to add the newer high level spells to their repertoire. Making them closer to be on par with avatars? No thanks, no thanks in any shape, form, or way. We have avatars for a reason, they are our bread and butter. Let our spirits be our salt and pepper.... no our salt. Just enough for taste... too much and it's bad for you.

Even adding the higher tier spells won't increase their usefulness, but you have a point about the A.I.

Although many people have not even had their spirits out to attack anything anyway.

[Tannlore]

Even adding the higher tier spells won't increase their usefulness, but you have a point about the A.I.

Although many people have not even had their spirits out to attack anything anyway.

Probably not, but they should have these anyhow. Oversight on their part that should be fixed. But on the list of things that need fixing for smn? Spirits aren't exactly up there as far as I see. I'd rather see attention put to other issues.

[Korpg]

Probably not, but they should have these anyhow. Oversight on their part that should be fixed. But on the list of things that need fixing for smn? Spirits aren't exactly up there as far as I see. I'd rather see attention put to other issues.

Which is why I have been so adamant against fixing spirits.

Why fix a squeaky wheel when the whole engine needs to be replaced?

[Malamasala]

Which is why I have been so adamant against fixing spirits.

Why fix a squeaky wheel when the whole engine needs to be replaced?

Which is why I am asking the mechanic for his opinion and cost estimation.

[SpankWustler]

And unbeknownst to both of you, the mechanic has never worked on a car in his life. He only knows how to fix mechanical bulls and electric nose-hair trimmers.

[Korpg]

Which is why I am asking the mechanic for his opinion and cost estimation.

You don't get it. I'll spell it out for you.

Squeaky wheel = Spirits adjustment.

Engine = Cait Sith, Atomos, BP timers, BPs in general, Ward effectiveness, and pretty much every issue to do with Avatars now.

[Malamasala]

You don't get it. I'll spell it out for you.

Squeaky wheel = Spirits adjustment.

Engine = Cait Sith, Atomos, BP timers, BPs in general, Ward effectiveness, and pretty much every issue to do with Avatars now.

Did you notice that SpankWustler replied to me and thought my post was just fine? Did you notice you are the only person on these forums that ever complain about my posts?

If you want to be taken seriously, you should take a break from replying and give other users a chance to complain. Because if I'm seriously as dumb as you claim I am, then plenty of people will spot it and tell me that I don't understand. You don't have to act like the brain police all on your own.

[Miera]

In all honesty Spirits should have the same AI as Puppets.

[Korpg]

Did you notice that SpankWustler replied to me and thought my post was just fine?

No he didn't, he was being sarcastic. You don't know what sarcasm is, do you?



Did you notice you are the only person on these forums that ever complain about my posts?

No I'm not. Other people have replied many times that spirits are not the priority of SMN, spirits should not be on par or even better than avatars like you want them to be, and melee SMN is the worst idea in the world, which you endorse.


If you want to be taken seriously, you should take a break from replying and give other users a chance to complain. Because if I'm seriously as dumb as you claim I am, then plenty of people will spot it and tell me that I don't understand. You don't have to act like the brain police all on your own.

Plenty of people have told you how wrong you are, you just pick me out because I make the most comments about how bad your idea is and state why they are bad. You attack me because I'm the one who puts you on the defensive the most.

[Windwhisper]

Did you notice that SpankWustler replied to me and thought my post was just fine? Did you notice you are the only person on these forums that ever complain about my posts?

If you want to be taken seriously, you should take a break from replying and give other users a chance to complain. Because if I'm seriously as dumb as you claim I am, then plenty of people will spot it and tell me that I don't understand. You don't have to act like the brain police all on your own.

If i were you i would give up Mala. The whole reason why i wont argue against him and just read without replying is because he will NOT give in. Trust me. So be the smarter one :)

[Korpg]

If i were you i would give up Mala. The whole reason why i wont argue against him and just read without replying is because he will NOT give in. Trust me. So be the smarter one :)

Actually, when he stops stating that Spirits needs to be adjusted to be equal to or better than Avatars, and that anything a WAR melees, a SMN should be able to melee at the same time (although Dallas was the one who stated that, Mala endorses and encourages that too), then I will stop (with this argument).

[Malamasala]

If i were you i would give up Mala. The whole reason why i wont argue against him and just read without replying is because he will NOT give in. Trust me. So be the smarter one :)

Yea, I decided to save myself from losing brain cells each time I read his posts and added him to ignore list.

I really should try and get on the test server to meet him though. But I'm missing ASA expansion so according to their list of requirements I do not fulfill them. (Honestly though, why do I need ASA to test gameplay? Is an ASA expansion coming up so they need to check that the old content still works?)

[Korpg]

I would dignify that with a response, but since the person I would be responding to won't see it, there is no point except to state that another person has shown how closed minded they are by blocking somebody that shows why their ideas are wrong and instead of accepting that, they choose to ignore their problem (which is not their ideas, it is them for not adapting to ideas that are not their own) instead of finding a solution...

[Gallus]

I would dignify that with a response, but since the person I would be responding to won't see it, there is no point except to state that another person has shown how closed minded they are by blocking somebody that shows why their ideas are wrong and instead of accepting that, they choose to ignore their problem (which is not their ideas, it is them for not adapting to ideas that are not their own) instead of finding a solution...

You're taking the forums way too seriously. You should take a break. Seriously, I don't agree with them, but I would never waste my time trying to change someone's close-minded opinion. Sorry to sound like a jerk, but going back and forth is doing nothing.

[Korpg]

You're taking the forums way too seriously. You should take a break. Seriously, I don't agree with them, but I would never waste my time trying to change someone's close-minded opinion. Sorry to sound like a jerk, but going back and forth is doing nothing.

Maybe, but maybe I'm taking people too seriously too. Not attacking you at all, but I think that people should be more open minded in reality, instead of "my way or highway" attitudes I have experienced on these forums.

I won't take a break on these forums though, those who hate me for who I am would have blocked me by now, which is good because it shows how closed they must be in life (personally, I think having a block feature on forums period is not only a waste of time, but limits the whole reason of having a forum in the first place).

[Soundwave]

So any testing on smn yet for test server?

[Korpg]

Not yet, still got to finish downloading the client plus I have class in an hour. So I probably won't be able to test it out tonight.

[Tannlore]

My client is patching now, should be about 30 min or so and I'll be in for some long testing. Can't wait.

[Dallas]

LOL his problem is simple. He's confusing his dime-a-dozen troll tactics with "special flower."

I tried telling him that he's living in 2006, and that no one cares about 2006, but it falls on blind eyes. BTW, no one with any common sense starts a fight with Mala over spirits. It's different than melee smn. There's a chance you do know what you are talking about, but you will still lose.

So... Who else.has made the mistake of googling images of "carbuncle?"

[Korpg]

Dallas, disagreeing with each other about issues is not the same as trolling.

You really need to realize what trolling is, so you can see that you are the one who is trolling in truth.

[Tannlore]

I already put a solution to this problem in the summoner forum guys.

You should go see it, I'm interested in your replies.... Though I can guess the responses from some of the parties already.

[Elexia]

The stun BP isn't good at all. All that needs to be said lol. Some people are having mixed results because of the whole skill reset issue but in the end, it could have been so much more, Thunderbolt with BLU however...:D

[Razushu]

The stun BP isn't good at all. All that needs to be said lol. Some people are having mixed results because of the whole skill reset issue but in the end, it could have been so much more, Thunderbolt with BLU however...:D

There's still time, Shock Squall doesn't officially exist yet, be more specific in how it falls down provide feedback to SE.

Also does perpetuation cost go up past lvl90?

[Korpg]

Thunderbolt is awesome.

The stun effect on that was between 5 to 15 seconds.

Edit: Comparing it to Squall Squall.... between 4 and 7 seconds....

Even Sudden Lunge is better....

[Tannlore]

Perp costs are as follows at 95:

Celestial Avatars/Diabolos: 15 MP a tick
Carbuncle:11MP a tick
Fenrir: 13 MP a tick

Edit: This is naked with Auto-Refresh II taken into account.

[Korpg]

If they are going to honestly make Shock Squall effective, they need to make it as effective as BLU, otherwise this blood pact will become an unused blood pact. Like Slowga.

[Soundwave]

Perp costs are as follows at 95:

Celestial Avatars/Diabolos: 15 MP a tick
Carbuncle:11 a tick
Fenrir: 13 MP a tick

This is not counting both auto refresh ya?

**"Edit

Not sure if everybody saw this.


Summoner

Carbuncle Blood Pact: Soothing Ruby
The number of ailments removed is scheduled to vary according to the character's summoning magic skill, but is currently a set number.

Ramuh Blood Pact: Shock Squall
The amount of time before it takes effect as well as its maximum casting distance, effect duration, and MP cost are scheduled to change.

[Tannlore]

This is not counting both auto refresh ya?




Theses amounts were calculated with auto refresh II in mind

[Tannlore]

If they are going to honestly make Shock Squall effective, they need to make it as effective as BLU, otherwise this blood pact will become an unused blood pact. Like Slowga.

I'm having the same issues but there's also the problem of skills not accurately transfering over. I only have 101 smn skill (WTF) on test server as opposed to my capped on live. The stun duration might be effected by skill level.

[Korpg]

I'm having the same issues but there's also the problem of skills not accurately transfering over. I only have 101 smn skill (WTF) on test server as opposed to my capped on live. The stun duration might be effected by skill level.

Oh shi, I didn't look at my skill level

[Tannlore]

I noticed it first when I switched to drk and went to use my WS and saw that all my GS Ws were gone.... I checked my skill and had.... 5 skill. I then saw that most of my skills were effected the same, yet others were maxed out that I didn't have maxed on live servers.

[Malamasala]

Do level 95 spirits get new spells? While I'm positive SE didn't add any, they might have some bugged ones like Banish IV. Wouldn't say no to accidental comet on dark spirit or something.

[Korpg]

Do level 95 spirits get new spells? While I'm positive SE didn't add any, they might have some bugged ones like Banish IV. Wouldn't say no to accidental comet on dark spirit or something.

No, spirits have not been updated.

[Malamasala]

No, spirits have not been updated.

I'm sure you wrote that without testing. Then again I'm sure SE didn't actually test spirits for last update, considering we got Banish IV. So at least you are as useful as the normal testers.

[Korpg]

I brought out ThunderSpirit, sic'd it at a sapling in C.Mire, it used Thunder IV, enough testing was done to determine that, at level 95, Spirits were not updated and did not get any new spells.

Why don't you go on the test server and try it out, I'm sure you will get the same results as I did.

[Soundwave]

All of Korpg testing is spot on, I get the same results my smn skill is 476 and I can only see about a 4 second stun duration with Shocksquall, the distance to execute the bloodpact is rather nice though.

Spirits were not mentioned at all so they have not been adjusted however for giggles I pulled a few out and they act and do the same things they always have, giving me MP by the use of ES.

Test Server MP
Soothing Ruby MP Cost 74
Shocksquall MP Cost 67

Testing with Shocksquall on multiple mobs.

It seemed that every time I got more mobs of the same type one mob would be 1/2 resist to a 2 second stun and the others will get the full effect.

1 mob = 4-5 second stun
2 mob same type = A chance for a 4-5 second stun
2 mob different type = A chance to stun for 2 seconds the other will be 4-5 seconds

So I had 4 Raptors and 4 Beetles...
2 Raptors = 4-5 second stun
Other 2 raptors = 2 second stun
2 Beetles = 4-5 second stun
Other 2 Beetles = 2 second stun

With testing on the same two mobs over and over it looks as if whatever the full stun effect will be the 2nd mob is reduced to half that effect or possible 1/4. Sometimes this is not the case, sometimes they are both stunned for the same exact time.

My final feedback for Shocksquall

-MP Cost is fair amount
-The distance from Avatar to target is good to BP while staying out of harms way.
-The AoE range on the target is terrible It's like 8-10 should be at least 15 like Protectra.

[Korpg]

I think you just got resisted on those stuns that only lasted about 2 seconds. I get that sometimes with just one mob.

Shock Squall is horrible at the moment, and I hope that SE will look into this and fix it before releasing.

[AyinDygra]

You are aware that the new Summon abilities are listed in the "Known Issues" (link) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13735-Known-Issues-on-the-Test-Server?p=181918&viewfull=1#post181918) of the test server.

Just thought I'd point that out.

(Glad to see it was seen, and mentioned... I like to have direct links to dev posts when possible on subjects they've commented on.)

[Soundwave]

Perp costs are as follows at 95:

Celestial Avatars/Diabolos: 15 MP a tick
Carbuncle:11 a tick
Fenrir: 13 MP a tick

This is not counting both auto refresh ya?

**"Edit

Not sure if everybody saw this.


Summoner

Carbuncle Blood Pact: Soothing Ruby
The number of ailments removed is scheduled to vary according to the character's summoning magic skill, but is currently a set number.

Ramuh Blood Pact: Shock Squall
The amount of time before it takes effect as well as its maximum casting distance, effect duration, and MP cost are scheduled to change.

I'm aware I even re-quoted it last page.

However they want Feedback, so I'm giving it...weather they are aware of it or not.

[Korpg]

That was also pointed out in the last page here.

I'm just stating what I witnessed with the issue at hand. I also have offered my suggestions (greater than 15 second duration for being a recast timer of 45 seconds or greater) into this matter. I also have stated that it is impossible for me to test out Soothing Ruby since the test server only allowed a limited number of healing (I got 2 debuffs removed, I heard that you can get up to 3 on the test server) and I really don't feel like getting killed with Doom to see if the healing ability removes that, which by all likely it won't.

[Soundwave]

The real question is where these abilities incorrect before the Test Server or did they just post this after they heard feedback?

[AyinDygra]

The post time was 2:53am Monday, the day the servers opened. So, I'd say they knew before feedback.

[Soundwave]

Well that's kinda lame:(

Hopefully they will do the right thing.

[Rivante]

Just tested Shocksquall on the test server - pretty underwhelmed. Not really for its efficacy in terms of stun durations, but simply because of its casting nature. I'm sure there's some really interesting situations why Stunga would be useful, but one of the major reasons for any job ever to use any form of stun ability is to stop something a monster is presently doing (and many times, something really quick like a TP move)

The TP-move-style delay on bloodpact usage, makes the move almost useless - the only moves you'd be able to successfully stun with the added delay are AM spells and maybe some of the longer III/IV/V tier magic. Figure in the fact that many times a Stunga will produce unwanted adds from the aoe, and the normal recast timers of bloodpacts, and I can see Shocksquall getting quickly ignored. Its uses will likely be very niche and limited.

It's a great idea, but it needs improving, or it'll just become another Summoner "Hey look at this weird thing I can do!" gimmick--which SMN already has way too many of.

-*cough*-make spirits not useless-*cough*-

[Dallas]

So, test the enmity!

[Soundwave]

Give me a situation and I'll test it for you.

**Edit

Did we say if the hate goes to the summoner or the avatar?

**Edit

Well got a bunch of mobs, used Shocksquall as soon as stun was off, they attack Ramuh once and went for me. Only hate I had was the dia from the mobs and the summoning of Ramuh to use shocksquall.

[Dallas]

I'm assuming hate goes to avatar. I don't know if the tables are still accurate, but it looks like /blu is the way to go. Otherwise you may need a WHM. Keep in mind I am no expert.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/20380.html

MP drainkiss is 320 CE, 0 VE.

Tests on some L1 critter (I think):

1) Stunga pull, use pollen on self a couple times to see if enmity switches back to SMN. If so, it's all VE. (I think at this point you'd need help)
2) Stunga pull one mob, see how many times you can MP Drainkiss. CE < 320 x # of casts
3) Stunga pull 2 mobs, see if CE is the same on multiple mobs.

That's all I can think of. A less civilized test would be Stunga > whack with stick until it turns > add up damage.

[Dallas]

OK scratch that... sounds like 0 enmity lol. Medic!

[Raleg]

Didn't see if anyone mentioned it yet, but looks like SE is also nerfing Elemental Siphon.

[Razushu]

Didn't see if anyone mentioned it yet, but looks like SE is also nerfing Elemental Siphon.

<huh!?> What do you mean, in what way is it nerfed?

[Raleg]

Less mp returned. On normal servers i get a return of 504 when using element of same day, on test server its 466.

[Rivante]

I thought that at first, but when I tried it my results were more abysmally obvious (but, it was before I realized that the moogle had screwed up my Summoning Magic Skill and for some reason it was at 55)

Are you positive your SMN skill was capped when you got the bad results?

[Raleg]

Yeah, i double checked, had 454 smn skill and +20 elemental siphon augmented Tatsumaki sitagoromo in both instances.

[Soundwave]

I saw nothing wrong with Elemental Siphon.

[Raleg]

I've done it 30+ times now, all with the same result.
I am getting the same numbers at level 95 on test server as I do at 90 on regular though.
Are you saying you're getting increased numbers on test server?