Paralyzed while using -ANY- Items and losing them...Who else has gotten the shaft?

[Delvante]

Ok, this has been an aggravating topic for me for years. I don't know how many of you out there have been in this boat, sunk it and wanted to cry but... (lol)

I digress...

I had gotten into another discussion with a buddy of mine and we were seriously laughing about all the times we got hosed when we were paralyzed and what kinds of things we'd lost throughout our years of playing FFXI. Well tonight I heard that a friend of mine lost a Primeval Brew tonight because he was paralyzed although I'm not sure if he realized it before attempting the use of it or not.

Regardless, there has been many a time where I have lost items/timers and whatnot due to paralyze. Personally I'm ok with getting paralyzed and losing a recast time or whatever but any consumable item for starters that is used while under paralysis seriously SHOULD NOT be lost due to paralyze. I feel that this item should just simply be reset back to your inventory for another try and for it to just state that you were paralyzed on the screen in the chat bar like it normally does. I mean, there have been times where I've used a Signal Pearl or Tactics Pearl and reset the timer on the stupid thing without even getting a use out of it. Or losing a food item, stack of Shihe, remedy (which aren't exactly the easiest things to come by, yet are one of the few things that rid you of paralysis <ironically>), or the example of the Primeval Brew which isn't exactly the "easiest" thing to just waltz on out and snag another. This I personally feel for YEARS should have been addressed and would very much appreciate someone implementing a change that could eliminate this issue altogether.

SE:
If you don't think that it's an appropriate action to take or you just don't want to do it, can you at least give us a good enough reason why you won't change this problem?

Imput/change would be very much appreciated.

For all you other people that might read this post, did you see anything I missed or think I'm a bit off base on my opinion of this matter? lol please feel free to let me know. If you got sad stories of what you lost, I can tell you I feel for you. Heck, throw them on here too so that SE can see how much of an annoyance it can be to lose your "Preciousssssses" LOL!

[Alhanelem]

It's happened to everyone. Simple lesson: Don't use items while paralyzed (except maybe items to remove status effects).

[rog]

I have to agree with Alhanelem here. It's a pretty simple solution. It's up to you to decide if the risk of losing the item is worth using it right away. For something cheap like echo drops, or remedy ointments, it's not a big deal to just spam them until one works. However for something like a brew, it's probably not worth the risk. It's up to you to make sure you're not paralyzed when using such items, and to remove it first. If you don't want to, or can't wait, then use some remedies, or ask for a paralyna first. I don't think it needs to be changed.

[Siros]

Nah,im with Delvante on this one,or atleast partly.You should not lose the item,it should be reset into ur inventory.

[katoplepa]

yes, it is a non-sense to lost an item while you are paralyzed.. I know that NOW the things are working like this and according to this, it's not worth to risk to loose a brew, but this is not the point of this thread, this thread says that is a non-sense losing an item in this way, and I'm agree..

[Topdogg]

A scroll of Sleepga II.

[Zumi]

Simple solution don't use items while paralyzed, or run the risk of losing it. Its probably a mental error when it happens but this doesn't really need to be changed.

[Avarice]

Annoying? Yes.
Life-threatening? Situational.
Easy to counter [losing your items]? Yes (by not using).
Needs changing? Not really.

[Xilk]

There is a contrast however. If you are paralyzed and you cannot use a spell, you recast timer is not reset. If it is a job ability it is reset.
I think it would be better if items were treated like spells instead of job abilities.
I think it would be better if JA's worked spells to.

The worst one I can think of is Call Beast :P there are plenty of times when a bst NEEDS to summon a new pet.. paralyze on that move means death. Charm was only 12s... Call Beast is 4:10 w/ full merits.

4 minutes in a fight where you are 50% power at best.

[Vivik]

I think it's fine the way it is. Don't change it.

[Arcon]

If I buy a sandwich and try to eat it, but due to whatever complication may arise my body is paralyzed and won't move, the sandwich isn't gone the next second (unless a THF happens to be around maybe, but not as a rule). Yes, it is avoidable by simply not using it, but losing an item due to paralysis makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and never did. It was always a bother and sometimes it isn't easy to avoid either. You don't always have the luxury of realizing your paralyze status and calmly decide whether to use the item or not. It happened to me a few times I tried to use a temporary item inside Abyssea, but that second I was hit by a paralyze move and lost it. That stuff is nearly impossible to avoid, now imagine that happen with a primeval brew.

I honestly don't get why people wouldn't want this changed. Do you think it makes sense? Is it fun to lose items? Or have you never lost an item to paralyze, which I find hard to believe? Or do you think it makes the game more challenging, which I don't really agree with?

In my opinion it's just annoying and I don't see why it shouldn't be changed. Right now, the paralyze effect kicks in after the item has been used, but before applying the effect, same goes for JAs, which accounts for loss of the item and used recast. But for some reason, it doesn't for spells, which I find kind of confusing. Maybe it has something to do with the cast timer, but then again items also have one. Guess spells are just handled differently, but that means it could be applied to items and JAs as well, although I'm not sure if I want it to change for JAs as well, otherwise they wouldn't have much of a downside for being paralyzed. Maybe just introduce a general 3s delay if a move gets paralyzed? For all I care, that could also be applied to WSs, I don't see why they've been excluded from the paralysis effect in the first place.

[Shiomi]

Ok, this has been an aggravating topic for me for years. I don't know how many of you out there have been in this boat, sunk it and wanted to cry but... (lol)

I digress...

I had gotten into another discussion with a buddy of mine and we were seriously laughing about all the times we got hosed when we were paralyzed and what kinds of things we'd lost throughout our years of playing FFXI. Well tonight I heard that a friend of mine lost a Primeval Brew tonight because he was paralyzed although I'm not sure if he realized it before attempting the use of it or not.

Regardless, there has been many a time where I have lost items/timers and whatnot due to paralyze. Personally I'm ok with getting paralyzed and losing a recast time or whatever but any consumable item for starters that is used while under paralysis seriously SHOULD NOT be lost due to paralyze. I feel that this item should just simply be reset back to your inventory for another try and for it to just state that you were paralyzed on the screen in the chat bar like it normally does. I mean, there have been times where I've used a Signal Pearl or Tactics Pearl and reset the timer on the stupid thing without even getting a use out of it. Or losing a food item, stack of Shihe, remedy (which aren't exactly the easiest things to come by, yet are one of the few things that rid you of paralysis <ironically>), or the example of the Primeval Brew which isn't exactly the "easiest" thing to just waltz on out and snag another. This I personally feel for YEARS should have been addressed and would very much appreciate someone implementing a change that could eliminate this issue altogether.

SE:
If you don't think that it's an appropriate action to take or you just don't want to do it, can you at least give us a good enough reason why you won't change this problem?

Imput/change would be very much appreciated.

For all you other people that might read this post, did you see anything I missed or think I'm a bit off base on my opinion of this matter? lol please feel free to let me know. If you got sad stories of what you lost, I can tell you I feel for you. Heck, throw them on here too so that SE can see how much of an annoyance it can be to lose your "Preciousssssses" LOL!

I'd go with this. Items should be like spells, in that you get another chance to use it and not lose the item.

[rog]

If I buy a sandwich and try to eat it, but due to whatever complication may arise my body is paralyzed and won't move, the sandwich isn't gone the next second.
No, but you just dropped your potion, which broke to pieces, and your sandwich is covered in dirt.

Oh, and this is a video game, it doesn't need to make sense.

[Simian]

chuckles

It happened to me ONCE. I did not let it happen again.

[oliveira]

Haha you guys know nothing. It used to be WAY WORSE. You would move while using the item and it would be gone. It could happen even with expensive things such as spell scrolls. They changed it after a lot of people complained. ;)

And before you ask, that was before the US version released.

[Tenshibaby]

I honestly don't get why people wouldn't want this changed. Do you think it makes sense? Is it fun to lose items? Or have you never lost an item to paralyze, which I find hard to believe? Or do you think it makes the game more challenging, which I don't really agree with?
I'll tell you why: because some people are the hall monitor/teacher's pet types who, when replying to getting an annoying device removed from the game, responded with know-it-all "this is how you avoid it: don't use items when paralyzed" type responses. They think that since it doesn't personally affect them then it shouldn't be changed.

It IS stupid, as is "zoning" when being tractored, and other things that are really more programming deficiencies than they are logical behaviors.

[Fiarlia]

I don't view it as a big deal, but I still find it annoying.

I would like to see this changed, but I'm not going to be angry or upset if it doesn't happen.

[Fretion]

I don't view it as a big deal, but I still find it annoying.

I would like to see this changed, but I'm not going to be angry or upset if it doesn't happen.

I'm with Fiarlia, it's not game breaking, but it's definitely annoying to lose an item if you get paralyzed while using it ... especially when it's your LAST remedy or something.

It's also really annoying to have to wait the FULL /recast time on Jobabilities that get paralyzed. Especially when I know that's NOT true for spells ... if I get a paralyzed message while casting Drain or Aspir, for example, I can try again in a few seconds ... don't have to wait the full 1 minute recast.

I would be happy to see this changed.

[Yukichibi]

It's annoying, because maybe it's a negative status effect, and it's meant to be annoying ?

[Arcon]

No, but you just dropped your potion, which broke to pieces, and your sandwich is covered in dirt.

Assumption. Also, irrelevant, sandwich would still be there and still as nutricious, though possibly not as delicious.


Oh, and this is a video game, it doesn't need to make sense.

It may not need to, but it's still appreciated and usually enhances the quality of any product, even fantasy products. Many people confuse sense with realism. No one's complaining that primeval brew turns you into a god and allows you to destroy worlds for three minutes. It's not realistic, but if such a drink existed, it would still make sense.

If performing any action would randomly hang your character upside down, naked, in Port Jeuno and make you unable to act for 24 hours and reset your highest job level to 5, now that would make no sense. But it's a game, so it's alright?

Either way, it makes no sense and just annoys players everywhere. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be changed, and I didn't hear one mentioned in this thread either, just some people saying it doesn't need to be changed, without giving a reason why. So if half the people would like it (and I'm assuming it's a lot more than half) and the other half don't care, why not do it?

[Fiarlia]

Actually, yeah, I'm gonna say I'm more annoyed when a Job Ability gets paralyzed. Especially a two-hour. Not so much of a concern inside Abyssea because I'll just nab the next soothing chest.

But yeah, I think I'll change my point of view slightly and say that the only one that I think needs to be changed is losing your two-hour. Go ahead and keep the reset of all other job abilities. Keep the lost item effect (I'd still rather they didn't, but if they only fix one thing...). But make some sort of exception for two-hours at the very least.

I'd still like a fix for items, but the big one in my opinion is two-hours. And before anyone asks, no, I've not really had this happen to me aside from maybe once or twice when I didn't realize I was paralyzed, or tried to use at the same moment I got paralyzed, but I think it's a bigger concern than losing an item.

[rog]

Assumption. Also, irrelevant, sandwich would still be there and still as nutricious, though possibly not as delicious.



It may not need to, but it's still appreciated and usually enhances the quality of any product, even fantasy products. Many people confuse sense with realism. No one's complaining that primeval brew turns you into a god and allows you to destroy worlds for three minutes. It's not realistic, but if such a drink existed, it would still make sense.

If performing any action would randomly hang your character upside down, naked, in Port Jeuno and make you unable to act for 24 hours and reset your highest job level to 5, now that would make no sense. But it's a game, so it's alright?

Either way, it makes no sense and just annoys players everywhere. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be changed, and I didn't hear one mentioned in this thread either, just some people saying it doesn't need to be changed, without giving a reason why. So if half the people would like it (and I'm assuming it's a lot more than half) and the other half don't care, why not do it?
I still don't see how it doesn't make any sense. Potions, etc, would be shattered if you dropped them (which seems like the most likely way paralysis would prevent you from using it). Food, although still edible after be dropping in the mud, would you still want to? You could eat it, but you won't. Tool bags, arrows, etc are a little harder to explain, but i'm sure we could come up with a valid reason. Such as being too busy fighting to pick them up. And then a wild bear comes and steals them while you are fighting another bear. Or something.

Yeah, ok, some of those are a bit of a stretch, but it absolutely makes some sense.

[Hayward]

I think it's fine the way it is. Don't change it.

Think about that statement for a second, imagine yourself fighting Upas-Kamuy after it gets a Cold Wave off, then ask yourself if you like the way this works when your Catholicon is invalidated because someone decided a Paralyze effect should be like the Stop spell in previous FF episodes.

It's bad enough that Paralyze effects can cancel out Paralyna, Healing Waltz, and the like but it is beyond justification for Paralyze to cost people their items. But it's no surprise some people try to justify it so they can feel superior to everyone else.

[guinness]

There is a contrast however. If you are paralyzed and you cannot use a spell, you recast timer is not reset. If it is a job ability it is reset.
I think it would be better if items were treated like spells instead of job abilities.
I think it would be better if JA's worked spells to.

The worst one I can think of is Call Beast :P there are plenty of times when a bst NEEDS to summon a new pet.. paralyze on that move means death. Charm was only 12s... Call Beast is 4:10 w/ full merits.

4 minutes in a fight where you are 50% power at best.

I agree with this

[Ilax]

Actually, yeah, I'm gonna say I'm more annoyed when a Job Ability gets paralyzed. Especially a two-hour. Not so much of a concern inside Abyssea because I'll just nab the next soothing chest.

As far i am worry about it, paralyze cannot kill your 2h, just normal JA.

Edit: I think the main reason on this, is because SE don't really wan you to kill a monster 2h with a simple paralyze lol

[Alhanelem]

you recast timer is not reset.It IS reset, but only by a fraction of the full recast.

[Savannah]

It's happened to everyone. Simple lesson: Don't use items while paralyzed (except maybe items to remove status effects).

That's the smart way....*however*.....I was paralyzed after I started to use my item....which may I add was a brew...(w.-)

[Yukichibi]

That's the smart way....*however*.....I was paralyzed after I started to use my item....which may I add was a brew...(w.-)

Cancel by moving or resting.

[CrystalWeapon]

I've come to the conclusion that alot of the FFXI player fanbase at this point are masochist that or they're really against change of any kind whether good or bad. They're willing to admit something's wrong but they go with the reasoning "It's been like that for so long why mess with it now." No it's not world ending to leave things the way they are, but it does seem like an easy programming fix.

I can't really think of a reason to leave it the way it is. Running doesn't cause you to lose your items, nor does stun, as far as I know sleep doesn't either. What makes paralyze so different ? :P I'd think sleep would have a higher chance of making you "drop" the items on the ground and lose them than paralyze would. This isn't an increased difficulty to the game issue this is more of a codding issue it seems since the paralysis takes place after the usage bar gets to 100% and the item is removed from the inventory.

It bewilders me to see all the anti improvement comments on all the suggestions. x_x It's like a group of people who lived underground their entire lifes finally seeing some sunshine and complaining "It's too bright, the sunlight is bad" hissing then retreating back. :P I've been playing since shortly after the game was released, and I'm more than welcome to seeing changes to the game to improve quality. If you really want difficulty added don't argue to keep the annoying issues in the game in place, ask for high level endgame content. Ask for bosses that aren't just high hp and aoe with status effect spams, which seems to be the solution to making everything hard nowadays. Have bad guys that have strategy to defeat them, it's been proven the flow of battle can be changed from the same stale thing it's always been with abyssea and the weakness triggering. Why not have more bosses who's ai changes based on how you fight it in real time? More strategy please :3

Sorry for the off topic rant but yeah I see no reason why this hasn't been changed at this point. It's a beetle's foot issue :P i.e. (backwards beetle feet on all beetle models) been around for forever, we've gotten used to it but still doesn't change the fact that it's messed up.

[Savannah]

Cancel by moving or resting.

Was too late, I was currently fighting and it para'd me almost instantly

[Randwolf]

I'll take the middle route and say that at least an item that is supposed to remove paralysis shouldn't be lost. To me that is the most annoying. I mean, I'm using the item because I have paralysis. I've had this happen multiple times. It's not a stupid mistake. And, remedies aren't cheap. Either that or add an item specifically used for paralysis that always works on NORMAL paralysis. Just like Eye Drops, Echo Drops, Antidotes, ect. always work unless it's one of the time-based or aura-based types.

[Dale]

I'm on the side of seeing this changed. It's ok that it cancels the item or abilitie's use, but having it to where it actually deletes the item and burns your ability or spell (I've had my 2 hour wasted due to a paralyze before) is over the top. I'd like to see this fixed.

[Yukichibi]

... (I've had my 2 hour wasted due to a paralyze before)...

2h can't be lost with paralyze.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Paralyze_%28Status_Effect%29

[rog]

Think about that statement for a second, imagine yourself fighting Upas-Kamuy after it gets a Cold Wave off, then ask yourself if you like the way this works when your Catholicon is invalidated because someone decided a Paralyze effect should be like the Stop spell in previous FF episodes.http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/ffxiRog/seiryopara.pngSup (http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/ffxiRog/seiryopara.png)

I think it''s fine.

Stop complaining about losing a free item you get every time you enter abyssea, and repeatedly throughout from chests.

[rog]

2h can't be lost with paralyze.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Paralyze_%28Status_Effect%29
They used to be able to, years ago.

[Fiarlia]

Well then, this is change I don't remember them implementing. Good to know.

[Ilax]

They used to be able to, years ago.

I can't remember that day, and that as far i remember (8yr long) I still remember maat paralyzing me and able to pop 2h but no luck on convert.... I would like to see the source where SE actually fixed that.

Like i said previously, monster/NM follow the same rule, and doubt SE ever made 2h affected by paralyze, that would have break the game.

[Ilax]

I've come to the conclusion that alot of the FFXI player fanbase at this point are masochist that or they're really against change of any kind whether good or bad. They're willing to admit something's wrong but they go with the reasoning "It's been like that for so long why mess with it now." No it's not world ending to leave things the way they are, but it does seem like an easy programming fix.

I don't think is anything about 'masochist' but more about you should know better your job and game mechanic and understand that make all the difference if you are a great or bad player. Is not like there not an alternative like: just do not use your item when paralyzed, you might see that as 'masochist', i see that as an obstacle that NM impose you, and it make the spell paralyna even more useful.

Is ok to fix what everyone have no control on, but to set the game into a completely easy mode even to the TOP ignorant player, i think that just wrong. I can already see everyone complain that Sobek remove all your cruor buff or Azdaja (remove atma and cruor lol), but hey buddy is another obstacle to make you work harder, SE give you a challenge buddy, he not doing it just on purpose to piss you off, you should work around a solution and not cry about it.

I can already see SE make new NM that steal your Brew, lol that would be great, why that? Just so who not using brew again him have a good laugh at you. There multi side of view man :)

[Wataruryu]

Hey Rog ya ever been actually paralyzed, having worked in a hospital I can tell you first hand that your statement doesn't always hold true. Sometimes the muscle locks up into position and even tighten depending on the type of paralysis, And seeing as this seems to be (SEEMS to be) a freezing type paralysis, one would assume that your still holding on to the item at the end of the effect.

[rog]

doesn't always hold true
And...? Not sure why that matters.

There is a plausible explanation for why it works the way it does. It does not need to perfectly simulate reality.

[Randwolf]

Hey Rog ya ever been actually paralyzed, having worked in a hospital I can tell you first hand that your statement doesn't always hold true. Sometimes the muscle locks up into position and even tighten depending on the type of paralysis, And seeing as this seems to be (SEEMS to be) a freezing type paralysis, one would assume that your still holding on to the item at the end of the effect.

Reality correlations don't work in a game. Plus, you are far more likely to lose (drop) your item when stunned then when paralyzed. And, that doesn't happen.

[Wataruryu]

But the base of your argument started with you trying to simulate reality by saying, if you get paralyzed you drop the item. I simply just wanted to give an example as to why this isn't always true. Yes there maybe a plausible reason for why the affect is in place, but with out details as to why; The normal human response would be to look for what naturally makes sense in the world around them be it a game or not. Which by proxy is the item would still exist, that is why it matters its common sense.

[bramble]

It's illogical captain! I don't think items should vanish whilst paralyzed either. And to the people who are arguing it is realistic to think that the items are being 'dropped' and thus 'broken', causing them to vanish - as someone said before - paralysis is usually where the muscles contract and spasm and cause your grip to tighten on whatever you happened to be holding at the time. This means the item would still be in your grasp during the paralysis - therefore making it illogical that the item should dissapear.

[Randwolf]

It's illogical captain! I don't think items should vanish whilst paralyzed either. And to the people who are arguing it is realistic to think that the items are being 'dropped' and thus 'broken', causing them to vanish - as someone said before - paralysis is usually where the muscles contract and spasm and cause your grip to tighten on whatever you happened to be holding at the time. This means the item would still be in your grasp during the paralysis - therefore making it illogical that the item should dissapear.
My point is that using the logic of the physical world to argue the logic of the virtual world is illogical. Simply state that you don't think that you should lose items that are not used. No logic involved. Simply asking the Dev's to change something.

[rog]

It's illogical captain! I don't think items should vanish whilst paralyzed either. And to the people who are arguing it is realistic to think that the items are being 'dropped' and thus 'broken', causing them to vanish - as someone said before - paralysis is usually where the muscles contract and spasm and cause your grip to tighten on whatever you happened to be holding at the time. This means the item would still be in your grasp during the paralysis - therefore making it illogical that the item should dissapear.
Unless you were just pulling it out of your bag, and didn't have it properly grasped.


But the base of your argument started with you trying to simulate reality by saying, if you get paralyzed you drop the item.No, i was offering a valid explanation for why it might happen.

[CrystalWeapon]

I don't think is anything about 'masochist' but more about you should know better your job and game mechanic and understand that make all the difference if you are a great or bad player. Is not like there not an alternative like: just do not use your item when paralyzed, you might see that as 'masochist', i see that as an obstacle that NM impose you, and it make the spell paralyna even more useful.

Is ok to fix what everyone have no control on, but to set the game into a completely easy mode even to the TOP ignorant player, i think that just wrong. I can already see everyone complain that Sobek remove all your cruor buff or Azdaja (remove atma and cruor lol), but hey buddy is another obstacle to make you work harder, SE give you a challenge buddy, he not doing it just on purpose to piss you off, you should work around a solution and not cry about it.

I can already see SE make new NM that steal your Brew, lol that would be great, why that? Just so who not using brew again him have a good laugh at you. There multi side of view man :)

To me seems more of a mistake than an originally intended game mechanic. As I stated the game probably does it because the timmer on the item usage has to be at 100% before the paralysis effect takes effect. The game runs the script to remove the item first before applying the effect (as it should to prevent glitches where the item use happens and the item doesn't vanish) then it procs the paralyzed effect on you. There are plenty of oddities in the game that they haven't gotten around to fixing. I'm sure you would still love it if monsters could dispel your reraise effect. It's another annoyance that was around since the beggining that was recently fixed because they finally got around to it.

[Wataruryu]

Hence my comment Randwolf, yes there may be a reason as to why the effect is in place; But with without an explanation humans fall back on what they know, be it real life or game. As I know it there was no reason given as to why this effect is in place, so it perfectly natural to have a reality base reaction like I said human nature.
Rog sorry to have assumed that you where basing your statement in reality but the way it was put across to the reader, It gives the perception as doing so. I'm not trying argue a change to the system. I'm simply giving a reason as to why the people of this thread feel the way they do. like I said it's common sense to wanna make sense of the environment around you, even if its a game its still a type of environment that you enter act with (Virtual World). If you don't have a reason to contradict it; your normal perceptions of how things should be takes hold.

[Meyi]

I lose Catholicons all the time. :< Try to get rid of the paralyze, but too paralyzed to get rid of it.

[Greatguardian]

Monsters dispelling Reraise wasn't "fixed". It was adjusted. Game scripts do remove older effects before applying new ones in some cases, ie: before a monster dies, all of its status effects are cleared. But, if it was simply a script which removed an item after its use before applying its effect than we would lose items that we use while in motion.

Losing items while paralyzed has no real world correlation. It's not meant to make sense. It's simply a function in a game put into place by the original developers. Does it make sense that my level 90, Empyrean Monk can miss a sleeping, level 0 rabbit 1 out of every 20 hits? No. Does it work that way anyways because that's how the accuracy system was designed to work? Yes.

The developers devised this process in order to maintain what they felt was proper game balance. Being Paralyzed inhibits your ability to fight and forces you to make strategic decisions. Is it worth risking a 5-10 minute cooldown Job Ability while you're paralyzed? Is it urgent enough? Do you need some item badly enough right this moment to risk losing it? It doesn't particularly matter now whether this balance is "correct" or not in 2011, it's become one of the most basic mechanics in the game.

If you're paralyzed, don't use important items. Ask for a paralyna or try using a Catholicon first.

[Pungalo]

lol sometimes u get paralyzed as your just about to use a item, ex. in mid fight, an u run out of tools for utsusemi, u go to use a tool bag but befor u get it off, u get paralyzed & lose it. lol i had this happen to me alot of times, not just with tools but with other items, an at times job abilities, but wen paralyzed an attempt to 2hour, it doesnt reset it, jus delays befor another attempt to use. now to change it? i'll let everyone else decide that lol its not a problem to me tbh..

[Vivik]

Think about that statement for a second, imagine yourself fighting Upas-Kamuy after it gets a Cold Wave off, then ask yourself if you like the way this works when your Catholicon is invalidated because someone decided a Paralyze effect should be like the Stop spell in previous FF episodes.

It's bad enough that Paralyze effects can cancel out Paralyna, Healing Waltz, and the like but it is beyond justification for Paralyze to cost people their items. But it's no surprise some people try to justify it so they can feel superior to everyone else.

It's something you just have to accept. Take all of the annoying things out of the game and it becomes boring. I have lost things due to being paralyzed but I accepted that I had said status effect on and forgot about it.

Oh hey I got a better idea! Mobs cause damage and it's annoying, lets remove that too or better yet deaths? pshhh not anymore. Everyone gets to be invincible! Seriously, it's a game mechanic. It's not going anywhere.

Maybe some of you guys need something easier to play, some Hello Kitty Online?

[Meyi]

Or maybe you need to learn the difference between challenge and annoying.

There is enough punishment to not have the item activate. I don't think it's fair to lose it as well.

[CrystalWeapon]

Monsters dispelling Reraise wasn't "fixed". It was adjusted. Game scripts do remove older effects before applying new ones in some cases, ie: before a monster dies, all of its status effects are cleared. But, if it was simply a script which removed an item after its use before applying its effect than we would lose items that we use while in motion.

Losing items while paralyzed has no real world correlation. It's not meant to make sense. It's simply a function in a game put into place by the original developers. Does it make sense that my level 90, Empyrean Monk can miss a sleeping, level 0 rabbit 1 out of every 20 hits? No. Does it work that way anyways because that's how the accuracy system was designed to work? Yes.

The developers devised this process in order to maintain what they felt was proper game balance. Being Paralyzed inhibits your ability to fight and forces you to make strategic decisions. Is it worth risking a 5-10 minute cooldown Job Ability while you're paralyzed? Is it urgent enough? Do you need some item badly enough right this moment to risk losing it? It doesn't particularly matter now whether this balance is "correct" or not in 2011, it's become one of the most basic mechanics in the game.

If you're paralyzed, don't use important items. Ask for a paralyna or try using a Catholicon first.

Fixed != Script removal. Never said the removed any scripts to fix the reraise issue, I said they removed the ability to dispel i.e. the list of dispelable buffs was adjusted so that reraise was no longer removable. You're arguing semantics.

From how things work the best I can see are the following are caculated as so in the game.

Items:
Item usage bar fills to 100% > Item is discarded > (paralysis) > Item effect happens

Abilities:
Instant use so timer is reset upon use > (paralysis) > Ability effect

Spells:
Casting bar fills to 100% (or it's appropriate % based on gear, status effects) > (paralysis) > Spell effect > Recast timmer is calculated (based on gear, status effects)

You're saying it's really so wrong to want the paralysis effect to be taken into effect before the item is discarded? I would settle for being paralyzed and having a item reuse timmer set in place so I couldn't spam while paralyzed. i.e. Try to use it > get effected by paralysis > wait 5~10 seconds before another attempt. Makes alot more sense than items magically vanishing.

I'd say it's not asking too much since they also fixed the issue where temps for abyssea were lost upon d/c and time outs. At least that issue didn't affect items you paid gil for.

[Greatguardian]

I'm not nitpicking semantics. I'm disagreeing with the assertion that there was anything wrong in the first place. You adjust things from one state to another. You fix things when you take something that is wrong and make it right.

Would it be nice/easier/convenient if being paralyzed didn't take your items? Sure.

It would also be nice if we didn't lose exp when we die.

We do. It's not hard to avoid. Don't use important junk while paralyzed and you're hunky dory. If you're spending excessive amounts of time being paralyzed when you need to use a Brew or other important item, get a better mage. Everybody wins (except the shitty mage).

[CrystalWeapon]

Easier said than done, you don't always realize that you're under the effect in a pinch. I would go so far as to compromise for having a 1 min timmer down on using another item if one was paralyzed over losing it completely. I've never lost a brew or anything important to paralysis, just think it doesn't make an ounce of sense that the item vanishes. It doesn't add a challenge, if you want a challenge set that timmer to 5 mins on a paralyzed item, it's more annoying than anything else.

[Ilax]

Or maybe you need to learn the difference between challenge and annoying.

There is enough punishment to not have the item activate. I don't think it's fair to lose it as well.

Can't you see a challenge into annoying issue? Is as much annoying to be weakness for 5 min, there just too much thing that is annoying but in fact give a joyful challenge. (Even if i agree that sometime is very frustrating)

[Greatguardian]

Easier said than done, you don't always realize that you're under the effect in a pinch. I would go so far as to compromise for having a 1 min timmer down on using another item if one was paralyzed over losing it completely. I've never lost a brew or anything important to paralysis, just think it doesn't make an ounce of sense that the item vanishes. It doesn't add a challenge, if you want a challenge set that timmer to 5 mins on a paralyzed item, it's more annoying than anything else.

Panicking and losing track of your current status is the player's own fault. It's not a challenge. But it's not like it's super impossibly hard to avoid. Paralyna and basic self-awareness are really hard.

[Ilax]

You can still synth when you paralyzed!!! [i know i derail, still funny, i welcome item synth lost upon paralyzed, SE should fix that issue in the game bc it not following they mechanic.]

[CrystalWeapon]

Same could be said about basic self awareness and the loss of brews previously to timming out in abyssea, yet they fixed it.

You're not giving a good arguement for disputing the point besides the mentality of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I think a timmer down on the usage of the item would be a better alternative. If item interuptions were meant to cause a loss of an item, then they should go back and adjust the scripts so that player movement, stun, terrorize, sleep, and death while in mid use of an item caused it to be lost as well.

[Meyi]

Can't you see a challenge into annoying issue? Is as much annoying to be weakness for 5 min, there just too much thing that is annoying but in fact give a joyful challenge. (Even if i agree that sometime is very frustrating)

No, that's not a challenge at all.

It means I'm bored. When I'm challenged, I'm mentally satisfied because I'm having to focus and concentrate and think things through. That's a challenge.

Typing /heal and waiting 5 minutes is not a challenge at all. While it can prove to be problematic in big fights (where tanks or healers go down), the actual weakness itself is not difficult.

[Ilax]

No, that's not a challenge at all.

It means I'm bored. When I'm challenged, I'm mentally satisfied because I'm having to focus and concentrate and think things through. That's a challenge.

Typing /heal and waiting 5 minutes is not a challenge at all.

I refer the challenge to not die maybe?


While it can prove to be problematic in big fights (where tanks or healers go down), the actual weakness itself is not difficult.

Same as remove paralyze is simple as /ma paralyna user_about_to_loose_his_item.

The challenge is from start, know what you doing and when you doing it, anticipate enemy action, have alternative to a situation. That a challenge.

[Arcon]

Or maybe you need to learn the difference between challenge and annoying.

I can't agree enough with this. Losing items is not challenging, it's purely annoying. I don't mind getting Spiked Flailed in the face, because that happens for a reason, someone screwed up. On the other hand, just recently I was in Abyssea, had a long lasting paralyze effect on, I just finished farming something and wanted to warp home. I thought about death warping, but didn't wanna run to the next flux to get to some aggressive mobs. I saw para, used a Catholicon, gone. I thought "meh" and just used a Warp Scroll, gone. Warp Cudgel charge, gone. So I ended up running for three minutes then waiting another minute to die to lame, non-linking mobs, just to be able to get home without wasting more warp charges. Where's the challenge in that? Did I make a mistake? Who is to blame? I don't deal well with "life sucks" explanations.

And as was said plenty of times before (but people choose to ignore), it's not always easy (or possible for that matter) to avoid getting an item paralyzed. Temp items, food, toolbags, I lost all of these mid-fight, getting paralyzed right the second I used it. So what, never use items at all when fighting mobs with a paralyze move? Because if you do, it's your own fault and you deserved it?

I do believe "fixing" is an accurate term for this, because in my eyes, it's a mistake. As CrystalWeapon pointed out, the order of "executing the command", "getting paralyzed" and "executing the effect" differs between /item, /jobability, /magic and /weaponskill. And that makes no sense whatsoever, since they're all just actions performed by a character.

It's an annoyance. It makes no sense. It's not challenging. And in six full pages, no one has mentioned a reason not to fix it (other than "no"). And I for one am pretty sure there is none.

[Greatguardian]

Is the fact that there is a finite Development staff that is only able to work on a finite number of issues at a time and is already working overtime to get significantly more important updates out the door a good enough reason? Game developers are overworked, underpaid, disenfranchised workers who continue to do their job because they genuinely enjoy it. I'd rather they be able to devote themselves to content that actually matters than willy-nilly complaints about paralyze.

[Glamdring]

you would think a vitual world would understand tho' if you can't take any actions that would INCLUDE not being able to use a consumable, i.e. you can't consume it!

[CrystalWeapon]

Is the fact that there is a finite Development staff that is only able to work on a finite number of issues at a time and is already working overtime to get significantly more important updates out the door a good enough reason? Game developers are overworked, underpaid, disenfranchised workers who continue to do their job because they genuinely enjoy it. I'd rather they be able to devote themselves to content that actually matters than willy-nilly complaints about paralyze.

Do you honestly think a minor change such as adjusting lines in the script to make A happen before B would take as much time as you're suggesting it does? Yes, major changes are more important and, this isn't an "omg make it happen now" issue. This is players making them aware that players want it changed in the future issue. And honestly if they didn't want suggestions for adjustments these forums wouldn't be up in the first place. They've clearly stated that they want feedback from the playerbase in making the game more enjoyable, you can't chastise players for requesting that some annoyances are removed.

[Greatguardian]

I think you severely underestimate the amount of work that goes into changing just about anything in an aging game, especially one with a changing development staff. The sheer amount of code to sift through is horrendous. Worse if the original developer was lazy or neglectful with comments. Plus you have in-house testing and quality control. It will take up resources, no matter how minor a change it is.

[CrystalWeapon]

I know about programming I got my major in computer science to become a game programmer (yes I pulled that card and I know it doesn't mean crap but I at least have some basic knowledge of how this stuff runs). If the code was so unreadable without the old dev team we'd see no new content at all. They wouldn't have been able to adjust the enemy AI to add in the weakness triggers they did for abyssean NMs. I highly doubt a multi million dollor product such as XI would be lacking on documentation and commenting in and outside of the original coding. They know what their variables are they know exactly how their engines work and what happens where. I'm not underestimating anything. The most time consuming process of it would be more likely than not testing the adjustments to make sure no odd glitches show up from any changes made. They have fixed issues smaller than this, the fact that it's a small issue is irrelevant. Again this isn't a fix now issue, they already have a major update planned, but it's not unresonable that they could address it in an upcomming minor one.

[RAIST]

also, this isn't a new request. This is a long standing issue, that has been reported countless times over the years, both on various forum sites as well as directly through SE's own support portal (I myself have submitted it several times to SE).

Surprised these arguments haven't come again up yet, so here is the rehashing of some arguments from previous threads:

You don't drop your weapon when you are paralyzed--you don't even attempt to swing your weapon in the first place. Why? Because Paralysis impedes your ability to ACT. Therefore, if you can't start the action, you wouldn't even have the item in your hand in the first place to drop it.

You don't loose ammo when paralyzed, even though you do go through the motions of drawing your ammo and taking aim with the bow before it processes the effect. The act of actually shooting is not allowed, so ammo is not expended.

If your avatar is paralyzed, you are prevented from using the action (a message along the lines of Garuda is unable to perform the action comes up). You don't loose the timer--again, the action is not allowed when you try to call it.

In short, the code order needs to be adjusted to prevent the action from being initiated at all for all actions, regardless if it is an item, spell, job or pet ability. The check needs to be consisitent and take place at the time the event is first called (like with normal attacks and Pet Abilities), not after the animation starts. As for the complexity of the code, while it may vary from class to class, they all should follow an order that is easily identifiable by the developers. Once you track it down for one item, you have the template for all items, then the same for spells, then job abilities, then pet abilities, etc. While it may not be a straight cut and past of the entire script, portions of it would be and is easier to replicate once the process is laid out properly--especially if they were to make them more uniform in the order.

Raist

[Valtre]

also, this isn't a new request. This is a long standing issue, that has been reported countless times over the years, both on various forum sites as well as directly through SE's own support portal (I myself have submitted it several times to SE).

Surprised these arguments haven't come again up yet, so here is the rehashing of some arguments from previous threads:

You don't drop your weapon when you are paralyzed--you don't even attempt to swing your weapon in the first place. Why? Because Paralysis impedes your ability to ACT. Therefore, if you can't start the action, you wouldn't even have the item in your hand in the first place to drop it.

You don't loose ammo when paralyzed, even though you do go through the motions of drawing your ammo and taking aim with the bow before it processes the effect. The act of actually shooting is not allowed, so ammo is not expended.

If your avatar is paralyzed, you are prevented from using the action (a message along the lines of Garuda is unable to perform the action comes up). You don't loose the timer--again, the action is not allowed when you try to call it.

In short, the code order needs to be adjusted to prevent the action from being initiated at all for all actions, regardless if it is an item, spell, job or pet ability. The check needs to be consisitent and take place at the time the event is first called (like with normal attacks and Pet Abilities), not after the animation starts. As for the complexity of the code, while it may vary from class to class, they all should follow an order that is easily identifiable by the developers. Once you track it down for one item, you have the template for all items, then the same for spells, then job abilities, then pet abilities, etc. While it may not be a straight cut and past of the entire script, portions of it would be and is easier to replicate once the process is laid out properly--especially if they were to make them more uniform in the order.

Raist

yes but if you cant act (drink potion ect.) then you have to wait paralyze out instead of trying to get it off if you are solo
=

[GlobalVariable]

You know whats fun? Using an utsu tool bag or arrow quiver and the mob pops a paralyzing move right then, and losing the whole 99. Or losing 9 of the item to remove paralyze in a row - why even have meds that remove paralyze then! I don't care what the reasoning people want to give is, it's crap that should not happen. Whats next "removing para item loss = easy mode" posts?

[rog]

Or losing 9 of the item to remove paralyze in a row - why even have meds that remove paralyze then!
Because the cost of 10 remedies can outweigh the cost of remaining paralyzed longer than you need to.

[RAIST]

yes but if you cant act (drink potion ect.) then you have to wait paralyze out instead of trying to get it off if you are solo
=


no, the proc check should happen when you call the action, just like when you try to call a BP on a paralyzed avatar. If you beat the roll, then your action goes on as usual--if you lose the roll, then you don't act and instead get a message that you are paralyzed.

Raist

[Delvante]

(HOPE YOU ARE IN FOR A READING)
Man...had I known my initial post would have sparked all this, I'd have posted it sooner lol...

At any rate, some of you argue that you could "not be a moron" in a little nicer terminology and "Not use your item" in response to people having paralyze problems and that's fine, feel free to attempt to belittle those that have had unfortunate circumstances take items from them. I won't argue what's "real life vs. gaming" because effectively that's an irrelevant point. Things will make sense in some cases and things won't make sense in others, ya can't win them all.

However......

One point I want to make VERY clear is...YES YOU CAN AVOID USING AN ITEM, BUT YOU CANNOT AVOID A RANDOM MOB OR NM ABILITY THAT IS FASTER THAN YOU CAN INTERRUPT A NEAR INSTANT CASTING.........This has been hit on like a dead horse and people arguing AGAINST the change continue to skip over and bash on those that "use an item at a foolish time" and that's just silly. I'm very much with Arcon and many others and their points because they're valid points. One of which stated that SE wouldn't be setting up a forum WHICH INVOLVES A DECENT AMOUNT OF WORK for tracking and such if they DIDN'T CARE about feedback submitted by players.

I didn't say that paralyze was the "End of the world" please fix it now or I'll cry home in anger and slip my animal some arsenic or something. I just stated that it was a general nuisance as it appears plenty of people agree on and I wouldn't mind having it looked into and potentially changed.

Someone stated that it's "part of the game" and is something you just need to "anticipate a mob's moves" in order to avoid losing an item and personally that's just rubbish.

Now..if you realize you're paralyzed and go hm...I wonder if I'll lose this item by using it while under the affect and hope you don't well...I'd agree you're asking for a punishment, but the loss of the item as opposed to even a 5 minute re-use timer to me is excessive. You can argue (as some people have) that in "real life" you wouldn't likely 'lose' an item as your muscles lock up (which is dead on true) but as it is a "game" one might argue (which some of you have) that they can do whatever they want. Well naturally that would hold true, but if you notice, SE has done an all around magnificent job at making this game look relatively realistic as well as ACT relatively realistic and so therefore have attempted to implement "Life Common Sense" into what they apply to this game. Therefore it's not a bad thing for one to attempt to justify the sense in losing an item through real life 'realism' if you will.

Personally I was more curious how other people felt about this "paralyzed while using items" issue more than wondering if they'd actually fix it. If they fix it, they fix it. If they don't, they don't. I'll still play the game and still have fun. But things won't get fixed if no one says anything.

I think it's hilarious to see how many people are arguing against removing the issue. I can't think of one person that plays this game that cares to lose an item regardless of whether they "accidentally" used it under paralysis or received the affect while already in motion to use said item and would take LOSING an item over the idea of NOT losing it.

My last thought is this:
To argue a developer or coder's time, and the fixed issue's relevancy to that individual's time to fix it is just plain dumb. There is a reason for the forum, a reason there are staff to look into people's thoughts, which then makes a reason for people to voice their opinion on what they feel could/should be changed or a preference of something as well. If the developer or coder didn't want to fix things that might or might not be wrong (based on the original intentions of a code and not what we think right or wrong in our own flawed minds) he wouldn't have taken his job because he'd know full well that this would be a part of his job description. His boss pays him to do his job, which in part is to take care of what the customer/consumer (gamer in this case explicitly) wants. There is a reason gaming companies make money on games they produce, and it's solely because of the buyer/customer/consumer. I'm not saying paralyze is going to stop someone from buying the game (no pun intended seriously), but the point in the matter is that you have to satisfy the customer to gain respect and a willingness to continue to follow a potential line of products. And if you're showing respect by looking into a customer's preference on something that DOES HAVE relevancy to it, then you're satisfying customers. This is obviously what SE wants or they wouldn't have put together this forum.

Thanks for all the comments on this, it truly was nice to see what people thought, even those that didn't agree. That's okay.

Oh and the whole upside down naked in Jeuno for 24 hours? That's just bizarre, but hilarious lol...thanks for the laughs!

[GlobalVariable]

Because the cost of 10 remedies can outweigh the cost of remaining paralyzed longer than you need to.The cost of 10 remedies isn't even a consideration. Futility is. If it was strong enough to need removing and you didn't have a mage to save you then you won't be able to remove it in time for it to matter, mob will have been woopin your rear through 10 attempts.

[Yarly]

To all the people who want to not lose items while paralyzed:

Did you all forget that paralyze is a DEBUFF? What the hell would be the point if there wasn't any negative effect?

Great, now people will start crying about mobs casting slow, curse, bind, silence, plague, etc.

[GlobalVariable]

To all the people who want to not lose items while paralyzed:

Did you all forget that paralyze is a DEBUFF? What the hell would be the point if there wasn't any negative effect? The negative effect is still there. You act like keeping an item in inventory means asking for the "is paralyzed" message to never even happen.


Great, now people will start crying about mobs casting slow, curse, bind, silence, plague, etc.These kinds of rationalizations and leaps of logic are more annoying than losing a dang quiver/toolbag to para.

[Cybernetic_Empire]

The logic that losing consumables to paralyze is OK because it's always been that way or that it serves as a part of the debuff is astounding to me. Paralyze restricts action, it shouldn't make consumables vanish. Period.