DRK: Rank E Parrying, and Tactical Parry /facepalm

[Urteil]

Parrying / Tactical Parry

This by far has to be one of the silliest additions to any job to date.
Anyone and everyone who plays DRK must look at this trait and wonder why we don't have something marginally useful like Magical Attack Bonus I, in its place.

In fact its so incredibly useless that deleting it wouldn't affect our job in the slightest.


Perhaps at the very least, boost DRK parrying skill to at least Rank A when using a Two-Handed weapon.





Edit Update**** (Decided to not make another Thread and Simply Put the Two together)


Blood Weapon


Square Enix, please make Blood Weapon a normal job ability for Dark Knight not a two-hour. Give us a real two-hour.

Dark Knight being praised for using a club (WHM weapon) or a dagger (Defnitley not a DRK weapon) is very silly, trite, stupid, boring, and retarded.


As such please balance Blood-weapon in the following way:

Duration: 60s (1 Minute)
Recast: 480s (8 Minutes)

Heals the Dark Knight for the damage inflicted through melee swings, and physical Weapon Skills.

Effective only with a two handed weapon equipped.

Meaning that if you are using a Sword, Dagger, Club, Axe the Job ability will be 100% useless and provide no benefit whatsoever.

[Selzak]

Someone should make a Parrying / Elemental Magic build for DRK, record it in action, and pass that to the devs.

Honestly I think they just weren't creative enough to figure out what to do with DRK after a certain point (look at how often SAM has been updated with relevant, useful, and appropriate abilities- because it's a ...Samurai). So after a while, they just started tossing random trash at the job as best they could be assed to.


Personally, I wish they'd just add more utility/survivability to DRK. After playing several jobs at 90, I believe that every job should have a set of unique abilities and traits that make it self-sufficient, at least to an extent. Out of the box, DRK seems like it was actually supposed to excel at this with Drain / Aspir.

I don't care what they do, just make the job unique, useful, and capable of handling itself. If you want to make us lean towards Elemental Weapon Skills, boost their damage by giving us a set of WS-only MAB traits and give us a trait that gives Elemental WS a chance to terrorize the enemy (nothing ridiculous, just a Stun+). If you want us casting more often, realize the job as a DD / debuffer hybrid and make it so that our Elemental Spells occasionally have some additional enfeeble attached. The catch to this would be that, if a DRK gets lucky, it might be able to cast something like Blizzard III (which uses a considerable amount of its MP) and land Paralyze on a mob that otherwise could not be paralyzed. Maybe even make this a TP-activated JA that works on spells. This would introduce some specialized needs for the job as a debuffer, which I think is the right direction.

Oh, and please make Absorb-TP and Dread Spikes worth casting again. I understand if something is overpowered, but you don't have to completely kill it like Absorb-TP (and RNG, lol). If you want to leave Absorb-TP where it is (under the bed), then give us the ability to significantly reduce a mob's TP through some other means (without gaining it). DRK is sorely missing the ability to maintain itself against weaker enemies (I understand it shouldn't be getting hit by more powerful monsters being faced by a party- but soloing is way too difficult on DRK). Dread Spikes should last quite a while longer, it's hardly worth the effort to cast. Make the spell weaker (especially against stronger mobs), but last long enough to be a viable defense against weaker monsters that any other job could handle without any care. I don't mean to change the amount of HP drained, you could even reduce that- just the amount of time the spell stays in effect if that cap hasn't been reached.

Make the other Absorb spells worth casting again (or at least worth considering) by removing the decay and enahncing/augmenting the effects somehow through scaling traits. They're relevant when you get them, but not much later.

The job needs more tormenting / stunning. It's melee damage isn't the best but it's very good and that's all it needs to be so long as the job brings other things to the table.

I think stances could do very well for us to separate utility/survivability and melee damage, but I won't go into that here.

More than anything, take some time to appreciate the job and be creative with it instead of giving up on the entire aspect and just throwing random things at it to try and fix it. I mean, just take a look at the DRK mobs in the game and think about how some of those things could be translated over to us. Let us inflict a potent plague effect or let us erase a mob's TP, let us be the best stunner in the game. Hell, why not give us a trait that adds a reasonable chance to inflict a weak Stun on melee attacks? If a BLU can spam Head Butt, DRK should be able to match that. Maybe it could be a JA that drains HP over time and creates the chance for stun on melee attacks. Make us a tank's second-best friend, and let us use the abilities we already have with the effect that they were intended to have on a battle.


Or, you know, just give us some Tactical Parry+ equipment and drain our TP.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Shield Mastery on Rdm with F shield skill says Sup.


Obligatory TACTICAL PARRY, JOB'S FIXED GUYS reference.

[Zeroe]

Exactly. This trait is so useless its not even funny. Honestly, we need SERIOUSLY better updates. We have gotten trash updates for way to long. The job is almost useless in abyssea compared to that of a ninja and a thief. The thing is, when do I ever see a ninja pay 50 % of there defense to put up high numbers. Its sad that I use all my buffs, top notch DD atma, and STILL cannot hit as high has a ninja. What did we do to deserve this?

[Sureal]

i love hearing drks whining about their jobs, i mean they were only gods for what, 4-5 years?

and to throw sams under the bus, i really do understand, i mean sams had their day as top dog for what, 2 weeks?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Think you got your jobs mixed up in that statement.

[Raksha]

i love hearing drks whining about their jobs, i mean they were only gods for what, 4-5 years?

and to throw sams under the bus, i really do understand, i mean sams had their day as top dog for what, 2 weeks?

I never really was big into Endgame, but hasn't SAM been the shit for a while now?

[Sureal]

lol no, im pretty spot on, sorry if you didnt play during that time, but for a while, if you were zerging anything (which was pretty much endgame for a while) you were on drk

sam was situational at best and still is

[Selzak]

lol no, im pretty spot on, sorry if you didnt play during that time, but for a while, if you were zerging anything (which was pretty much endgame for a while) you were on drk

sam was situational at best and still is
You seem very backwards. How is a 2HR Kclub zerg (that got nerfed) on HNMs not situational but SAM is? That was actually the only little spotlight that DRK has gotten in the seven years that I've been playing, and we're talking about using your two-hour with a 20mil club and a party dedicated to your survival and effectiveness. There may have been 100-200 people across all servers actually doing this with DRK.

SAM, on the other hand, has been SE's favorite DD since ToAU and it has shown (defacto DD for pretty much anything) all the way up until Abyssea came out.

[Urteil]

i love hearing drks whining about their jobs, i mean they were only gods for what, 4-5 years?

and to throw sams under the bus, i really do understand, i mean sams had their day as top dog for what, 2 weeks?

Gods for 30 seconds, with a full party backing you up, with a 20-25million gil weapon, which was a club, not a scythe.

So because we could use a niche CLUB well for a purpose that (let's be honest), was never intended by the developers, we are somehow gods?

This is just hilarious it doesn't help your cause it just highlights the fact that DRK was god when using a WHM weapon, a club.

Fix us please.

[Coldbrand]

Blue Mage doesn't have fencer, but got dual wield even though in every other FF they've always been depicted as using strictly one sword in one hand.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It still humors me that drk can use stun claws and mnk cannot.

[Urteil]

It still humors me that drk can use stun claws and mnk cannot.

This made me cry tears of laughter.

[Glamdring]

prob isn't just the rank e, there's also skilling parry at all. honestly, it's almost as bad as guard to skill, but at least a long-time nin tank has a CHANCE of getting it near cap. without that skill when is tactical parry going to proc? parry doesn't...

[Urteil]

prob isn't just the rank e, there's also skilling parry at all. honestly, it's almost as bad as guard to skill, but at least a long-time nin tank has a CHANCE of getting it near cap. without that skill when is tactical parry going to proc? parry doesn't...

1. Get your DRK.
2. Sub WAR.
3. Get RDM/SCH Friend.
4. Go to Abyssea Altep
5. Phalanx DRK and defender.
6. Pull every mandy in sight.
7. Face them, and target one off in the distance.
8. Profit.

[Malamasala]

This by far has to be one of the silliest additions to any job to date.

Right up there with "A skill summoning magic, only counts if you go above cap with items"... Might as well have had Z rating, since only items count to begin with.

At least siphon came around 5 years later and fixed it a little.

[Elexia]

I'm sticking to what I originally said:

They're scared to give DRKs real additions and want us to slowly fade away.

[Sureal]

if you think the only zerg weapon you had was kraken club, maybe you should suck less, cause there was other ways


but what do i know

[Raucent]

true we had access to weapons such as MK Ridill BZ KC and OC and before the haste cap the rune chopper , the point however is you are saying we need 0 improvements based on a 30 second ability, which is no longer really practical with the majority of the new NMs being resistant to souleater.

Yes the BWSE zerg was very potent but it wasn't like we could just activate and go to town with it we usually needed BRD and WHM minimum to keep us standing

[Selzak]

if you think the only zerg weapon you had was kraken club, maybe you should suck less, cause there was other ways


but what do i know
Still not for the average player, extremely situational (30 second window), and nerfed.

[Sureal]

ok, so lets say it was situational, which i agree it was, too a point, in that during that time you could zerg pretty much everything (i mean, when they have to specifically nerf mobs, not one but many mobs based on one jobs "situational" ability, that should say something about your power) when was the last time you skill chained a mob, on purpose, let alone be called upon to skill chain a hnm, because that is what sam is

[Selzak]

Of course it was powerful but it was also a 30 second capability that was not open to normal DRKs. It's like saying PLD is awesome in Abyssea because if you get an Ochain and enough gear you can block shit and build TP all day- but the truth is PLD is absolutely disregarded in Abyssea.

On the other hand, SAM was considered to be the melee DD as soon as ToAU came out. It was the wanted DD for everything from EXP to HNM, and it wasn't until Abyssea that it lost its crown to MNK and WAR.

DRK has been at the bottom since CoP (or since people took job balance seriously), and the only shimmer of life that it had was with a very specialized and situational niche that could be used for 30 seconds every two hours if you were lucky enough to be equipped for it- then it got nerfed.

[Sureal]

ummm, we are both talking about sam, as in samurai, as in using great katanas, because i think we are talking about 2 different jobs

sam was NEVER "the" job, except for a 2 week period where we had a glitch and were gods, but that got taken away very fast

[Selzak]

ummm, we are both talking about sam, as in samurai, as in using great katanas, because i think we are talking about 2 different jobs

sam was NEVER "the" job, except for a 2 week period where we had a glitch and were gods, but that got taken away very fast
It sounds like you really missed a big time period in the game lol.

It was sort of whispered that a MNK or a WAR would out-DD a SAM, but between ToAU and Abyssea SAM was still the trend job.

??? -> RNG -> WAR/NIN -> BLM -> SAM -> MNK

What do you consider to be the last trend job before MNK and WAR hit Abyssea if you think SAM wasn't? Were you playing when ToAU came out?

[Cream_Soda]

ummm, we are both talking about sam, as in samurai, as in using great katanas, because i think we are talking about 2 different jobs

sam was NEVER "the" job, except for a 2 week period where we had a glitch and were gods, but that got taken away very fast
polearm brah

[Selzak]

I just can't believe that a SAM playing this game before Abyssea doesn't remember "SAM Fantasy XI".

Here's a random Google search on FFXI Best Jobs:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/race-job-type-q/75534-only-needed-jobs-ffxi-whm-pld-blm-sam.html

[Urteil]

if you think the only zerg weapon you had was kraken club, maybe you should suck less, cause there was other ways


but what do i know

Enlighten me.

[Draylo]

Blue Mage doesn't have fencer, but got dual wield even though in every other FF they've always been depicted as using strictly one sword in one hand.

BLU only got dual wield through setting certain spells for the trait, like every other trait we have. We can set for counter too, its a different system in this game.

[Taint2]

Enlighten me.


Probably referring to Chopper and Apoc. Apoc was the games ultimate zerg weapon for a couple years.

[Urteil]

Shameless, necessary, obnoxious bump.

[Dauntless]

Chopper, Apoc, K club, M kris

All situational, all expensive, all uncommon.

Seriously? Someone saying SAM isn't SE's pampered child? That's laughable.

[Sureal]

suck less

my ls had many many k clubs, many many MANY more choppers, i believe we had at least 2 apoc's, and quite a few m kris drks

guess how many sams we had, hmmm me and ummmmm, well there was me, and then there was uhhh me


im not sitting here saying sam sucks, i love the job, what im saying is that sam was not THE dd job, never was, sam was always overlooked when meriting, sam was always called upon to sc mobs, then gtfo for wars thfs and blms

drk was called upon to kill shit fast, sam was called upon to kill shit normally

[Urteil]

suck less

my ls had many many k clubs, many many MANY more choppers, i believe we had at least 2 apoc's, and quite a few m kris drks

guess how many sams we had, hmmm me and ummmmm, well there was me, and then there was uhhh me


im not sitting here saying sam sucks, i love the job, what im saying is that sam was not THE dd job, never was, sam was always overlooked when meriting, sam was always called upon to sc mobs, then gtfo for wars thfs and blms

drk was called upon to kill shit fast, sam was called upon to kill shit normally

You do realize this thread is about the travesty that is Tactical Parry on DRK.

Not how with a Relic weapon, using a great axe, or a club, or a dagger.

DRK can be as good as everyone else who is wielding AHable crap, and not even using a weapon (aside from Apoc) in which it was designed for.

Which is what was possible during the Hagunn-Era.



What you're really saying is: The job is good every 30s , every 2 hours.

So what you're REALLY saying is: DRK is good for 6 minutes a day.

And that is acceptable, and everyone should rejoice that it is so.




On topic please.

[Dauntless]

suck less

my ls had many many k clubs, many many MANY more choppers, i believe we had at least 2 apoc's, and quite a few m kris drks

guess how many sams we had, hmmm me and ummmmm, well there was me, and then there was uhhh me


im not sitting here saying sam sucks, i love the job, what im saying is that sam was not THE dd job, never was, sam was always overlooked when meriting, sam was always called upon to sc mobs, then gtfo for wars thfs and blms

drk was called upon to kill shit fast, sam was called upon to kill shit normally

You should probably suck less at playing SAM. It was ALWAYS the DD job. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean it wasn't SE's love child the entire duration of this game.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Sam was always overlooked when meriting whaaaaat.

I can't believe you mentioned Blm (for 75 cap) in there for not manaburns... and Thf for anything other than TH whoring the mob at 5% health because no one knew how TH worked.

*Drk was called upon to kill shit fast every 2 hours

[Sureal]

guess it was a server thing, my server had good drks, meh, w/e

[Dauntless]

guess it was a server thing, my server had good drks, meh, w/e

Alright. Let me spell it out for you.

Apoc zerg. M kris zerg. Chopper zerg. K club zerg. All zergs. These are EXTREMELY situational uses for DRK. We're the most useful job in the world...for 30 seconds. Then it's back to the bottom of the foodchain.

You know what's at the top of the food chain and has been since ToAU? SAM. By god, I haven't been in a meripo, Nyzul Assault, any assault, sky, sea, limbus, salvage, or ANY endgame event that didn't have at least one SAM in it soloing light all over the place and getting all the loving because of their blatantly OP damage.

By the way, I played on Bahamut. I don't know what the fuck you've been playing, maybe you should've lrnd2play SAM and you would've realized how OP it is.

Back in my time, I had some of the best gear a DRK could get, but if I wasn't zerging no one wanted me. I know, because I have a brother that's a SAM and he was also pimped out and if there was one spot left for a run and a party needed a DD, he was ALWAYS picked.

Simply because DRK had something to exploit (until it was patched!) doesn't mean it was a better DD. SAM has always been SE's spoiled child and it will continue to be until the game's demise.

[Panthera]

Shame the term "emo" went out of fashion. They never did come out with an update to fix that about Drk.

Yeah... giving Dark Knight Tactical Parry was ... interesting, but it's a done deal. It doesn't hurt, do you want them to take it away?

Someone mentioned bumping Dark's parrying skill up. I think that creates game balance issues. I think Dark is supposed to be "Pure Offense" like Ranger and Black Mage are, only they all go about it differently.

That said, maybe Dark Knight's trait should be based upon physical, melee offense attacks. Blood Weapon should perhaps be a normal job ability, and their 2-hour should be something else. Hey, they did it for Dragoon, and Beastmaster sounds like it's getting a similar adjustment as well.

I realize that re-working Blood Weapon won't "fix" Dark Knight, but you have to stay within the Spirit of the Job. I thought maybe Dark Knight should get Store-TP or Haste or something, but Store-TP is kinda Sam's thing.

[Modoru]

Not entirely related, but what's up with giving THF another steal?

...Which shares the same recast timer? I still honestly think that was the most bull- update for the job, as far as abilities went.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Increasing parrying skill will affect balance as soon as parrying affects balance. I highly doubt Drk's E parry is worth anything on higher level mobs.

They're tied in parrying with RDM BRD and SCH (and MNK but most Monks don't use 2h for damage) for crying out loud.

[Urteil]

Increasing parrying skill will affect balance as soon as parrying affects balance. I highly doubt Drk's E parry is worth anything on higher level mobs.

They're tied in parrying with RDM BRD and SCH (and MNK but most Monks don't use 2h for damage) for crying out loud.


Samurai in action with parrying capped is nice, high level parrying would be fantastic for DRK.

You also get a bonus to % chance to parry when wielding a two handed weapon.


It would be a very nice addition, and would make sense, considering they gave us the JA to benefit FROM parrying.






I realize that re-working Blood Weapon won't "fix" Dark Knight, but you have to stay within the Spirit of the Job. I thought maybe Dark Knight should get Store-TP or Haste or something, but Store-TP is kinda Sam's thing.

Yes please, Blood Weapon = JA. Usable only when wielding a Two-Handed weapon.

Fixed.


^^ I updated the OP to actualize my Blood Weapon idea and add that to the discussion / attention of the development team.