Only 200 fish per day is not fair.

[Fabby]

I really do not think increasing the rate at which skill is gained is needed. I don't think it's unfair that you need 10k moat for a Lu. I do think the fishing cap limit is complete bull. I like to fish in this game, and I feel almost cheated that I am forced to stop because of what RMT "use" to do. SE didn't punish them, so they punished the players.

I actually made a second character, leveled it a good while just so I could continue to fish. My guess is that is what RMT did too to continue to fish also, which really makes the decision to cap fish one can catch pointless.

All the cap makes, nay, forces us to do, is to spend money to buy another content ID, in order to enjoy this aspect of gameplay.

[Godofgods]

200 a day??? Is that possible?

Dispite having nearly every singel craft complete, i cant stand to fish up more then 2 fish at a time before being annoyed and stopping lol.

[Dragoy]

It's actually very easy to 'cap' it, takes maybe ummm few hours if I remember right depending of how much you pay attention to the game.
This is of course without using cheats, which I never did since I like to play my games... myself.

It's not very different from other anti-cheat limits really; they more than usually are a bigger annoyance to the honest players than they are a fix against the cheaters, who always find new ways to get things with less effort, no matter what.

Gathering materials for all the other crafts is actually most of the time a lot more annoying or/and tedious to me, always was and especially these days when the materials are usually not found from the Auction House (though I would gather my own materials if I only could).

This is really the worst kind of limits that I do so hate. Similar to time limits for events like Assault, and the likes.
And that is because I have had a lot of time to use, and if I choose to use the whole day into something, I would like to be able to do just that, not being limited be it 'to protect my eyes' or because of 'anti-cheat measures'.
This particular limit indeed does not limit the cehaters much, since they likely are using multiple accounts and characters anyways.

Of course it makes it a little bit harder, but I'm not sure if it's really worth it due to the annoyance to the honest player(s). The cheaters will cheat nevertheless.


In short: I agree, it is an annoying limit.
Many a time I was annoyed by it when I was actively fishing, though I would just go do something else then. Still, I would have probably been fishing a lot more, and I'd probably have the Lu Shang's, and a lot higher skill level (being near the 50 now). And I would have liked to be able to do that.

[Fabby]

That's even if you can stand going the full 200 fish limit. They start to increase the recast time between casts at around 150ish fish caught, and it progressively gets worse,as well as more frequent you catch nothing messages.

What on God's green earth is this for?! To let me know I am getting close to 200? Do they think we can't count? I can't think of one logical reason why not only must they limit how I have fun in this game, but slow it down before reaching said limit.

Ugh, sometimes I just don't know what they are thinking. But here's hoping a developer will read this and it will get changed.


/rolleyes

[JackDaniels]

The reason why they cap fishing is because of RMT. If they didn't cap it, and people still actually bought gil, you would only be making a fraction of the profit you are making now, ie: 3-4k/ stack of moat carp.

[Fabby]

The reason why they cap fishing is because of RMT. If they didn't cap it, and people still actually bought gil, you would only be making a fraction of the profit you are making now, ie: 3-4k/ stack of moat carp.

I'm not sure if you just did not read my post, or if you have had too much of what your name says, but yes, we know why they capped it, friend. Further reading would also have told you that cap does not stop those like RMT, because they use multipule characters and/or accounts to continue to abuse the system.

But thank you, Jack, for contributing to the disscussion!

[Raucent]

heh for SE it is a semi fix fpr two reasons

1 the cap 200 a day fishbots cant go 24/7

2 if the RMT make more characters that is more $$ for SE from the RMTs

[Fabby]

heh for SE it is a semi fix fpr two reasons

1 the cap 200 a day fishbots cant go 24/7

2 if the RMT make more characters that is more $$ for SE from the RMTs


But fishbots can go 24/7, just switch to another character or account. Solves their problem.

And don't forget us players that want to fish more than 200 fish a day, we also pay to have extra characters to fish with. SE profits, and legit players lose out. GG!

[Dragoy]

On the note of making less profit; I never really sold my fish in the Auction House. I mainly used my fish into either quests and/or other crafts, such as cooking or alchemy and whatnots.


My point is that the anti-cheat measures should not be hurting the honest player(s) as much as they sadly too (it happens everywhere though, not just in Final Fantasy XI and I know it is tricky to balance these things).


It may be weird, but I'm not really thinking about the Gil I could be making while fishing. I probably would be if I had it at level 100 or higher, but I do it a lot to get materials for other crafts really, as I mentioned, and this is where these limits hurt me a lot and I don't think it should be needed.
I work for myself, so to speak, so the limits that are imposed over me do not mean anything to the economy of the server either, since I don't buy things from the Auction House as long as I can get what I need by myself, and I usually can.

I think there should be another way to go around this.

[JackDaniels]

I'm not sure if you just did not read my post, or if you have had too much of what your name says, but yes, we know why they capped it, friend. Further reading would also have told you that cap does not stop those like RMT, because they use multipule characters and/or accounts to continue to abuse the system.

But thank you, Jack, for contributing to the disscussion!

Apparently I needed to reiterate the blatantly obvious. I'm sorry I couldn't have contributed something worth while to your pointless qq thread about a feature that you know very well is is in place for anti RMT purposes. Buy moat carp from other fishers to supliment lost time post fish-cap? If you cap your catches and buy as much as you catch (especially on your main and alt), you should have your lushang rod in no time, relatively speaking.. We all know whining about things doesn't mean that SE is going to make big changes, look at Summoner for instance, the red headed step child of the job system.

[Fabby]

Apparently I needed to reiterate the blatantly obvious.

No, you didn't need to, you just did. It was already stated so, thus your post was rather pointless.


I'm sorry I couldn't have contributed something worth while to your pointless qq thread

Apology accepted. Just try to contribute to a disscussion rather than padding your post count in the future.




a feature that you know very well is is in place for anti RMT purposes.

And how is that stopping RMT exactly? Makes them create another character to fish with? Can't say it really does stop them from anything. Can you?


Buy moat carp from other fishers to supliment lost time post fish-cap? If you cap your catches and buy as much as you catch (especially on your main and alt), you should have your lushang rod in no time, relatively speaking..

Yes you can buy them, but, its free to fish them. Wasting gil on what I can already do is rather pointless. It saves time, but if I was concerned about how I spent my time, I wouldn't play video games, particularly an MMO.


We all know whining about things doesn't mean that SE is going to make big changes, look at Summoner for instance, the red headed step child of the job system.

Welcome to the forums. Take a look around, it's full of QQ. But since I pay for their service, and they offer a forum to communicate with other players, and it's view by game developers, I'd say this is exactly the place to "whine" about a game feature you don't agree with.

Can you honestly say that this feature to prevent RMT works, and is a good idea?

[JackDaniels]

Wow you need a life outside of FFXI, friend.

[Fabby]

Witty comeback, truly. However I do just fine, I assure you.

My desire to voice an opinion on a game feature signals to you that I need a life outside the game?

Regardless, you refuse to answer the simple questions I directed at you.

[JackDaniels]

1) How is that stopping RMT exactly?
2) Makes them create another character to fish with?
3) Can't say it really does stop them from anything. Can you?
4) Can you honestly say that this feature to prevent RMT works, and is a good idea?

1) Any and every obsticle that hinders RMT gil making dissuades them from sticking around. IIRC there was a massive write up by the STF around the time that this fishing cap was placed going into great detail about their attempts to thwart RMT activities.
2) Yes: See above
3) You can't really say that it's not helping, can you? Proof please, or else this point is moot.
4) Yes I do think it's a good idea. How would you propose that the STF handle this? Please tell me about your extensive history in this field of MMO development.

[Fabby]

I'll give you my resume if you give me yours, friend.

I won't debate the need to hinder those that are RMT, and those that cheat to win. I think we can both agree it's a needed effort. However this particular avenue cannot succeed, it only forces them to work around it, I.E, create and use multipule characters and accounts.

I can not give you factual data, nor can you give me. Yet a logical person can only agree that this particular feature does not stop anyone from fishing only 200 fish a real life day. I prove that simply by fishing on multipule characters. Therefore the proper solution is to either increase, or remove this fishing cap so us honest players do not have to pay an extra fee in order to enjoy the game feature of fishing.

If you cannot see that as plain as day, then you are lost on it's meaning, and this arguement is moot. We must just agree to disagree on the matter.

[Alienmonkey]

It's not free to fish them. How come every other person I run across in xi doesn't understand that time is money?

[Karbuncle]

It's not free to fish them. How come every other person I run across in xi doesn't understand that time is money?

Good question!

I'm concerned why everyone in FFXI feels we need to suffer for actions of RMT, instead of relying on the company to actually ban those people instead of nerfing every single players gaming experience because of it.

Yes, It was an RMT counter-action, RMT aren't going to start flooding back into FFXI because Fishing was un-nerfed.

They can unnerf fishing now. Even if they dont want to unnerf it completely, maybe limit it to 500 fish a day?

[Fabby]

I can fully admit, 200 fish can be a lot when adding in a persons normal day to day. I have a wife and child, and work full time. I can do the fishing I need to obtain moats for a Lu, and that's about my day in the game. However when I can do more, weekends, holidays, or whenever possible, I can easily do more.

It's the fact the game tells me I can no longer enjoy this as a way to past the time, when no other feature in the game does so. I can level a job, skill up crafts, run quests and missions, all with no limit other than my own.

This is my plight. I am forced not to enjoy this at my leasure like I can everything else.

[Urat]

200 fish a day = 50 days to get lu shangs.

Sounds like a lot, but if you fish in the right places you can skillup while working on lu shangs. You don't need lu shangs until level 50~60, and most people average 1-2 levels a day.

Ergo: If you fish in the right spots, you'll end up getting your lu shangs just as you ding into the mid50s, which is when it's even worthwhile having.

Don't bother getting lu shangs at level 11, you don't actually need it.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Urats_Lu_Shangs_While_Skilling_Guide

[JackDaniels]

I'll give you my resume if you give me yours, friend.

I won't debate the need to hinder those that are RMT, and those that cheat to win. I think we can both agree it's a needed effort. However this particular avenue cannot succeed, it only forces them to work around it, I.E, create and use multipule characters and accounts.

I can not give you factual data, nor can you give me. Yet a logical person can only agree that this particular feature does not stop anyone from fishing only 200 fish a real life day. I prove that simply by fishing on multipule characters. Therefore the proper solution is to either increase, or remove this fishing cap so us honest players do not have to pay an extra fee in order to enjoy the game feature of fishing.

If you cannot see that as plain as day, then you are lost on it's meaning, and this arguement is moot. We must just agree to disagree on the matter.

Lolol try gathering in ffxiv pre-fatigue kibosh

[Cymmina]

Do you know how long it actually takes to fish up 200 fish (not counting multiples via sabiki rig)? That's about 4-6 hours, depending on bite rate. If you're telling me that you fish to fatigue on a regular basis without botting, I'm going to call you a liar. Considering things like Ahtapots/Grims, Black Sole/Dil, and Bastore Bream/Mercanbaligi average 650 to an NPC, that's a shitload of gil coming into the economy (which is more damaging than selling an item to another player, where the amount of currency in circulation stays the same).

Skilling up multiple accounts/characters is a big time investment for RMT, but they'll do it if it is the best time/gil/effort ratio. Remember how gardening used to be awesome for gil, and the RMTs all flocked to it? Remember how many legitimate players got banned because they had multiple gardening mules? SE has traditionally done a poor job at differentiating between RMT and the average player. I'd rather the caps stay as they are than risk more aggressive detection measures be put in place. It's better for the economy, and it's better for the players.

If anyone should be crying about their daily limit, it should be diggers. Digging is capped at 100 (without Blue Racing Silks), and pretty much everything that used to be worth digging (ie. ores, thanks Abyssea!) isn't anymore. It takes about an hour to dig up 100 items once you rank up enough to get a 1 second delay. On top of the 100 item limit, zones get dug up incredibly fast and the restock rate is much slower than it is for fishing. Did I mention how slowly you rank up due to the low digging cap?

[Fabby]

Lolol try gathering in ffxiv pre-fatigue kibosh

I've no idea what you just said o.O

It regards some XIV thing. I never played it. Bad reviews and all.

[Fabby]

Do you know how long it actually takes to fish up 200 fish (not counting multiples via sabiki rig)? That's about 4-6 hours, depending on bite rate. If you're telling me that you fish to fatigue on a regular basis without botting, I'm going to call you a liar.

I personally don't take that long to fish, legitimately, but I'm talking moat carp, easy fatigue with a decent skill level. It don't take but 3 hours maximum to fish up 200.


Considering things like Ahtapots/Grims, Black Sole/Dil, and Bastore Bream/Mercanbaligi average 650 to an NPC, that's a shitload of gil coming into the economy (which is more damaging than selling an item to another player, where the amount of currency in circulation stays the same).

I don't think fishing up more than 200 fish on a single character per day will change a thing, being I can fish up more tan 200 fish per day already, using multipule characters. The only thing it effects is my RL income.


Remember how gardening used to be awesome for gil, and the RMTs all flocked to it?

No.



Remember how many legitimate players got banned because they had multiple gardening mules?

I remember reading about it. Sucked to be them, eh?



I'd rather the caps stay as they are than risk more aggressive detection measures be put in place. It's better for the economy, and it's better for the players.

If anyone should be crying about their daily limit, it should be diggers.

So you're anti fishing, and pro digging. I get it.

Look, I don't care what RMT do. Heck, are there even RMT anymore these days? If so, are they fishing?

[JackDaniels]

I've no idea what you just said o.O

It regards some XIV thing. I never played it. Bad reviews and all.

Haha sorry, I was a little inebriated. Nothing says classy like a Tequila-Tuesday liquid lunch ;)

What I meant to say was..

'You should have tried gathering in FFXIV before they got rid of the fatigue system.'
It was a lot worse than what the fishing cap is in FFXI now.

[Fabby]

You go against your name?! For shame.

I did hear how horrible the fishing was in XIV. I think I had the possiblity to try the game even though it was getting bad reviews, until I heard fishing sucked. Sealed the deal.

This MMO's fishing is possibly the best fishing in a MMO I've seen.

Anyways, raise limit of fish caught or remove it, and all that.

[Dragoy]

Yeah, I was on Alpham and ßetas thereafter and have kept an eye on it a bit but that's all another story now.

It really is not difficult at all to regularly fish up the maximum amount (not saying I ever did it daily and even less so for weeks). I'd often play the guitar or other instrument(s), or do whatever else I might be able to, while not reeling a fishy in.
Granted, the character would at times just stand there doing nothing at times while I couldn't bother doing anything for a while and thus made it take longer than it had to, but that's how I fish.
I don't stare at the screen for hours on and only think about the next fish; I chat and multi-task otherwise.

I usually like to do something specific for a long time straight, instead of an hour of this, an hour of that, and then 2 hours of something else, and so on. No, I rather stick with something specific for as long as I feel like, then do something else. With fishing, one big reason for this is that my storage/inventory is always full, just few spaces in total usually, so if I go fishing I clear it up for just that, and it's an effort in itself.

But yeah, enough of that.


I gotta mention that I do like digging, too, as well as the other chocobo-related activities, and wish they would get rejuvenated as well as they are very limiting indeed!
But that would be a story of another thread. ^^

[Wallrat]

I couldn't agree with the OP more. Maybe a daily cap had a use once, but not anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw an RMT fishing, they've moved on. Really though, I don't even care about RMT fishers. They're much less annoying than RMT spamming NM's and good abyssea camps.

[CapriciousOne]

It's not free to fish them. How come every other person I run across in xi doesn't understand that time is money?

1. Because they have a job to make that money.
2. They have goals beyond just making a profit off everything they do
3. Are probably in the belieft that if I take the time to do it myself and not be lazy I dont have BUY anything off the ah and therefore is free becuase he doesnt lose money paying for overpriced crap on the ah.
4. [Related to point 3] the gil saved from not have to buy off ah is a form of profit in it self because the money saves is pocketed and doesnt have to be replenished from making said purchase wasting more time.

Personally i dont care for fishing and skilling it up is awful. I dont see me ever getting like even 100 fish per day because it is too boring to me to even keep at long enough to accomplish. Besides I would only go fishing to supply the fish I need to make fish mithkabobs anyway and beyond that I dont think I would bother with it any more anyway.

I must agree however that there are other ways to combat RMT. A simple IP and MAC address ban for like 1 year would do it as this information is readily available to the servers upon log in. Just put their IP address and then thier MAC addresses from there networking equipment on the Deny Access list and be done with it. IP addresses are harder to change and usually require purchasing another from your isp which isnt cheap to do especially since RMT is most likely using mulitple computers to be reasonable profitable. The MAC address of the network doesnt usually change but in some instances could be overwritten on the router but not the actual devices behind the routers.

Also could put a watchlist on those RMT offenders credit cards and deny them service that way as well. I'm sure there are other ways but those I figured would be easy to do if they arent doing it already since the structure is practically already in place to make it work.

[user201108211515]

"SE didn't punish them, so they punished the players"

This is the SE way. Honest players play by the rules and only get screwed over for it.

Everything the reasonably smart people here are sayn is more or less true.

Bots are still a problem. See my inflation post. aka NPC for gilz...

Its not fair to punish real players. yet here we are.

This should be the place to complain and be herd but not gonna hold my breath considering filing complaints aginst cheaters with s.t.f.u. takes months and some cases years of daily complaints... salvage ban... HNM pop items... Too little too late... And it hardly refunds the time we all lose to them. The whole time is $ agrument is some what pointless when a bot loses no time and makes $. Real players lose time and $.

In reguards to the fishing cap... Just wait tillya only catch bigh fish all day.. the wait timer craps out about 80-100 fish. Then it is easy to cap out every day in an easy 6-8 hrs. I love to fish too but it sucks I'm only allowed 1/3 ish of any given say to do so.. So you are definately not alone.

[user201108211515]

capri makes very valid points that will never happen because SE would have to pay more $ to make it happen.. Definately not in the SE business plan.

[Scribble]

Fabby, if you increase the amount of fish people can catch in a day it would indirectly increase the number of bots. It would also squash the amount of profits that crafters are able to make, namely cooks.

RMT fish to make real money. When you limit the amount of fish they can catch, you also limit their profits and their numbers go down. Go to youtube and search for "Batallia fish bots" and click the 1 minute video with the title in japanese. A good look at how it used to be before they added patrols and limited the number of fish and items you could catch.

Now think about those hundreds of fishermen going all day long, stopping only for a few moments to trade stacks of fish to a runner who would go place them on auction or vendor the trash. I'm not sure if you do, but many fishermen supplement their gil income with cooking. Thousands of fish flooding the market has a direct impact on profits of other crafters or even you if you cook as well.

In the end I agree that it sucks that you are limited. Personally I couldn't fish for 3 hours a day, but if that's what floats your boat then you still have that opportunity. Sure you have to spend an extra dollar or two, but that is hardly worth being upset over.

If you are going to criticize, you should at least come up with a better suggestion. The limits may not seem fair, but the reason for those limits is obvious and for the most part, effective. Come up with a better idea and you might have something here.

[Kari]

This cap affects low-level fishers more than high level.
People like myself who have an Ebisu and all, and spend most of their fishing time catching Hakuryu/etc, rarely hit the 200 cap anymore.

However, I do wish they'd lift it -- 200/day was my hugest complaint for leveling Fishing and getting Lu.
I bought my first Lu, but quested another one for the Key Item.
At current, anyone with a friend who has an Ebisu can make their own Ebisu in a couple of days, given they have Serpent Rumors. Saves a lot of time in comparison to questing your Lu and going through the annoyance that is Gugrus without an Ebisu.

Overall...
Limits that were meant to prevent RMT should be removed.
This game HARDLY has any RMT anymore -- Gil flows way too easily now to require buying it. Your average player makes more than most RMTs do now.

Not to mention, RMTs only fishing 200 a day are harder to catch than RMTs that sit at the fishing spot for days at a time.

[user201108211515]

since the bot trolls got my other post locked. I'ma pigyback this one.

inflation, you can have this
Ever hear the old horror stories of a few years back. SH@10m SH+1@50m. 50m strider boots. 90m thief knifes and so on.

Most people duno why it happened so allow me to explain.

It use to be that anyone that wanted gil could go to rabo and fish up rusty caps and sell them to any NPC for 3k ish gil. Sure it isnt much but if you fished all day you could make 1m easy.

So SE nerfs it. Once again se changes things to make them worse.

Now you need lv 25 ish smithing to turn rusty cap into padded cap and then you can sell it for 3k ish gil. Problem solved right? LOL @ SE.. Now light crystals are 12-15k a stack and people can still turn out 1m ish gill cauz by now we have mog enhancement furnishing that increase item bite rate.

So after about 18 mos of this. What do you see when you zone into rabo.. Shoulder to shoulder players all the way arround the pond. No joke you could not find a open space 99% of the time you just fish behind someone.

prices go crazy because by now the RMTs are all over this and people were geting gil for like 5/1m. SE nerfs this for good.

One would think SE would have learned something by now.. but no..

present day. Go out to beacu glacier and see for your self. Lots of fish bots there. Reguardless of who is or isnt boting... prices per fish is 10k to any npc. 80-100 fish a day easy. In another 6-12 mos or so im sure it will be packed with people fishing. Even if it was only 50 people turning out 1m a day.. that is still 350m a week. X 2-3 years it will take SE to wake up and realise we have a problem.

Start pinching those gilz.. Gonna need all ya can get soon enough.

Dont get me wrong.. I'm 100 fishing and after years of watching low LV fishers/bots get rewarded for being lazy at things like rusty caps and devil manta. It sure woulda been nice to have a $ fish for LV 100 fishers.. too bad SE caters to bots. Border line rewards them. I sure cant catch every one that bites my line even using an albatross ring. Bots dont even need the ring and fish them up in under 20 sec.

Am I the only one that feels like the people incharge know nothing about this game?

[DebbieGibson]

Am I the only one that feels like the people incharge know nothing about this game?

Nope, but here's a nice phrase for you. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

I think it is wrong to assume SE doesn't like botters, or that they are going to take any action towards them. You said yourself they are catering to them, so what's the problem? It would be nice for your server though if you would quit bringing in more ebisu rods, you're just making it worse for yourself.