Staff: Magian+2, Soulscourge, Hvergelmir, or something else?

[Meyi]

Now that I finally finished my last Black Mage Magian Staff+2, I've become prepared to tackle my next project; Summoner! But thinking back to how painful the trials appeared to be (killing with the avatar and such), I figured the best thing to do would be to research the best weapon before wasting my time and creating weapons that will be no use to me.

I read the Staff Trials topic on page 4, but I felt quite confused after shifting through it. So many people are torn on the benefits on the staves, so I was hoping maybe in this topic they could be hashed out.

The first staff that looks delicious to me is the Nirvana. However the odds of me getting my hands on one of these is slim to none. I don't really know anybody to do Assaults with, climb Nyzul, collect Alexandrite, do Einherjar, kill all of the power NMs and then repeat the process again with. It's just so time consuming and doesn't sound a lick of fun to me. I'd feel guilty for dragging my friends through that mess as well.

But if someone else has any suggestions for making a Nirvana more bearable I'd love to hear!

Another staff I've heard a lot about is the Hvergelmir. Is this staff purely for meleeing with and regaining MP? It seems nice but again it's another staff that I probably won't get my hands on because, like the Nirvana, I don't want to drag friends through lots of NM killing. I already help a couple of Linkshell mates out with their powerful empyrean weapons and I don't want to compete or ask everyone else to continue killing them. Shouting for pick up groups doesn't seem like the most fun either. BUT, if this weapon is so amazing that it's a must have, I will go through the struggle to get my hands on it.

I just want to know if it's really worth the struggle, or if it's more of a 'fun' item.

Next up is the Soulscourge. My friend said he prefers this over the Magian staves in Abyssea, and maybe even outside of it as well. Is it much better than the Magian Staves? Should I have this with Magian staves and swap out during BPs? Would it better to just get this and ignore magians completely?

Lastly is the Magian staves themselves. I really like the avatar perpeptuation -6 and blood pact ability delay -10, but I am an old summoner who played back in the days of ToAU. Back in the days when we either had to main heal as gimp white mages or solo (and I chose to solo for the most part). I quit my Elvaan summoner back at level 75 before Abyssea came out and I haven't touched it since. There are so many new abilities and gear added that I feel as if I don't even know the job anymore. It use to be my favorite and now I'm trying to play catch up with gear and knowledge.

If it helps any with the advice, I'll probably be playing mostly outside of Abyssea, solo, having fun. I use to melee with my avatars as Summoner/Thief, although I don't have Thief nor Scholar leveled as my Taru. I'm working on Caller's +2 gear, but that's as far as my knowledge now extends.

I don't mind putting in time and effort into my staves. I just want to know where my time and effort should be placed before I accidentally do the wrong thing, give up half way, and start the next project. :) Thanks for taking the time to read this post, and let's try to keep it civil shall we?

[Razushu]

Now that I finally finished my last Black Mage Magian Staff+2, I've become prepared to tackle my next project; Summoner! But thinking back to how painful the trials appeared to be (killing with the avatar and such), I figured the best thing to do would be to research the best weapon before wasting my time and creating weapons that will be no use to me.

I read the Staff Trials topic on page 4, but I felt quite confused after shifting through it. So many people are torn on the benefits on the staves, so I was hoping maybe in this topic they could be hashed out.

The first staff that looks delicious to me is the Nirvana. However the odds of me getting my hands on one of these is slim to none. I don't really know anybody to do Assaults with, climb Nyzul, collect Alexandrite, do Einherjar, kill all of the power NMs and then repeat the process again with. It's just so time consuming and doesn't sound a lick of fun to me. I'd feel guilty for dragging my friends through that mess as well.

But if someone else has any suggestions for making a Nirvana more bearable I'd love to hear!

Another staff I've heard a lot about is the Hvergelmir. Is this staff purely for meleeing with and regaining MP? It seems nice but again it's another staff that I probably won't get my hands on because, like the Nirvana, I don't want to drag friends through lots of NM killing. I already help a couple of Linkshell mates out with their powerful empyrean weapons and I don't want to compete or ask everyone else to continue killing them. Shouting for pick up groups doesn't seem like the most fun either. BUT, if this weapon is so amazing that it's a must have, I will go through the struggle to get my hands on it.

I just want to know if it's really worth the struggle, or if it's more of a 'fun' item.

Next up is the Soulscourge. My friend said he prefers this over the Magian staves in Abyssea, and maybe even outside of it as well. Is it much better than the Magian Staves? Should I have this with Magian staves and swap out during BPs? Would it better to just get this and ignore magians completely?

Lastly is the Magian staves themselves. I really like the avatar perpeptuation -6 and blood pact ability delay -10, but I am an old summoner who played back in the days of ToAU. Back in the days when we either had to main heal as gimp white mages or solo (and I chose to solo for the most part). I quit my Elvaan summoner back at level 75 before Abyssea came out and I haven't touched it since. There are so many new abilities and gear added that I feel as if I don't even know the job anymore. It use to be my favorite and now I'm trying to play catch up with gear and knowledge.

If it helps any with the advice, I'll probably be playing mostly outside of Abyssea, solo, having fun. I use to melee with my avatars as Summoner/Thief, although I don't have Thief nor Scholar leveled as my Taru. I'm working on Caller's +2 gear, but that's as far as my knowledge now extends.

I don't mind putting in time and effort into my staves. I just want to know where my time and effort should be placed before I accidentally do the wrong thing, give up half way, and start the next project. :) Thanks for taking the time to read this post, and let's try to keep it civil shall we?


Hvergelmir - melee and MP management(on things a SMN can melee safely exp mobs

Magian Staves - great general purpose weapons

Soulscourge -Great BP macro piece, has weaker MAB and attack on it than eiter of the magian staves, but has both on it as well as Blood Boon, so could see more use when you get your AF3+2

I'd work on the perp staves 1st, you'll get more use out of them. Then the soulscorge(or probably even during if you get lucky and see a shout run). Empyrean last because it will end up being an occaisonal weapon(since you have to pick your battles carefully).

The days of /WHM main heal only is long gone. With good gear MP isn't a problem for anyone. I've had no problem BPing, buffing and keeping a party of DDs healthy with just /WHM outside of Abyssea.

[Korpg]

In terms of standing back and letting the avatar do the most damage:

Nirvana > Fay Staff (-3 perp min) > Bahamut's Staff > TotM Staves (tie), HQ elemental staves (tie) > Hvergelmir.

In terms of going up and whacking mobs:

Nirvana > Hvergelmir > Fay Staff > HQ elemental Staves > Bahamut's Staff > TotM Staves.

Soulscourge is BP only for not whacking mobs. Because you lose TP by switching out staves and lose all that TP you whack stuff with.

[Razushu]

In terms of standing back and letting the avatar do the most damage:

Nirvana > Fay Staff (-3 perp min) > Bahamut's Staff > TotM Staves (tie), HQ elemental staves (tie) > Hvergelmir.

In terms of going up and whacking mobs:

Nirvana > Hvergelmir > Fay Staff > HQ elemental Staves > Bahamut's Staff > TotM Staves.

Soulscourge is BP only for not whacking mobs. Because you lose TP by switching out staves and lose all that TP you whack stuff with.

Love the new sig.

[Korpg]

Love the new sig.

Thanks :D white space

[Meyi]

I love that new sig too. It's hot and I'm jealous. :<

Thank you both so much for your input. Will I be considered a gimp if I use the ToM staves almost exclusively?

[Razushu]

I love that new sig too. It's hot and I'm jealous. :<

Thank you both so much for your input. Will I be considered a gimp if I use the ToM staves almost exclusively?

No they're the best general use weapons in the game for SMN, that are realistically attainable. They're well worth the time taken to make.

[Korpg]

No they're the best general use weapons in the game for SMN, that are realistically attainable. They're well worth the time taken to make.

Pretty much what he said, but he forgot to mention that the TotM staves cuts out a lot of BP gear also.

8/8 staves + YYR is pretty much all you need for BP gear, unless SE somehow lowers the cap even further.

[Meyi]

Okay, thank you both so much! I will get to working on my Summoner staves right away. <3 ^^

[Dmer]

Don't forget to macro Soulscourge for Elemental Siphon also.

[Karbuncle]

Soulscourge is great for Elemental Siphon, But don't half-ass it from there!

If you want a good MAB staff, get the PET:MAB Magian Staff, if you want a good ATK Staff, get the PET:AttacK+ Staff. Soulscourge is simply a mediocre half-assing of both of those staves. It is however great for Elemental Siphon, and I'm sure it has some positive qualities because of Blood Boon.

No other opinions outside of that from me :X

[Razushu]

Soulscourge is great for Elemental Siphon, But don't half-ass it from there!

If you want a good MAB staff, get the PET:MAB Magian Staff, if you want a good ATK Staff, get the PET:AttacK+ Staff. Soulscourge is simply a mediocre half-assing of both of those staves. It is however great for Elemental Siphon, and I'm sure it has some positive qualities because of Blood Boon.

No other opinions outside of that from me :X

People with the AF3 +2 tend to prefer it because of the Bood Boon, in my experience.

[Karbuncle]

People with the AF3 +2 tend to prefer it because of the Bood Boon, in my experience.

That in itself is rather bad too.

They'd get more E-peen Shots yes, But using a Real staff they would do consistently higher numbers that would eventually outweigh that type of benefit of forcing set bonus proc.

I honestly don't know the exact proc % on Blood Boon, Neither does wiki apparently, But assuming its 50% Proc rate after gear, its only 5% Chance to activate set bonus with 5/5 (if it anything like other Empyrean Set bonuses)... thats 2.5% Chance per BP for set bonus to proc.

and if im not mistaken the Damage multiplier is based on how much MP is conserved no?


receive a damage multiplier of 1.5, 1.75 or 2.0 depending on the MP conserved via Blood Boon

So lets say your BP average 2k outside of Abyssea. (heavenly strike as an example) You're now doing 4k per 40 Bloodpacts, which divided across all 40 BPs in the mean time is only +50 Damage on average.

Shareeravadi+2 has +7MAB over Soulscourge... which I think is about an additional 140? It would be based on all your other MAB gear, But i think it will always win over time.

[Razushu]

That in itself is rather bad too.

They'd get more E-peen Shots yes, But using a Real staff they would do consistently higher numbers that would eventually outweigh that type of benefit of forcing set bonus proc.

That's my thought on it, I have the Shareeravadi +2 MAB one, next up I'll get the +1 attack one. I'm planning on getting all three, and play around with them for myself. However I'd say barring a fix to +2 set bonus proc, Soulscourge will be a ward/siphon piece.

[Sargent]

Current list (very extensive):
Owleyes (Refresh)
Hvergelmir
Magian staves +2 (working on them, but have some)
Shareeravadi +2 (Pet:MAB)
Shareeravadi +1 (Pet:Atk)
Kirin's Pole (You can get upto +12 Summoning skill on this)
Terra's Staff
Apollo's Staff
Pluto's Staff

Concering the Blood Boon on Soulscourge: I wouldn't bother. You'd be better off with a mix & match BP set then the AF3 set bonus, simply because the proc rate is so low.
Physical: Karura or Selenian (Pet:Crit rate)/Caller's Body +2/Caller's Hands +2/ASA Legs or H.Legs (Pet:Atk+Crit rate)/Summoner's +1
Magical: H.Head (Pet:MAB)/Caller's Body +2/H.Hands (Pet:MAB, why didn't I get one of these >.>)/Caller's Legs +2/A.Feet (Pet:MAB, hate you Faf)

Of course, getting most of these are a pain, and until you get them, AF3+2 wins out.

[Karbuncle]

Heh, I forgot the SMn magic Skill+12 Kirin's pole. Thats really another nail in Soulscourge if you can get lucky on those Augments lol.

[Sargent]

Heh, I forgot the SMn magic Skill+12 Kirin's pole. Thats really another nail in Soulscourge if you can get lucky on those Augments lol.

Empasis on the lucky, I've poured about a mil into it and only have +10...

[Malamasala]

A.Feet (Pet:MAB, hate you Faf)

So how hard is it to augment these things? I still have my A feet from 2006 lying around because I never found +MP to be worth the cost to buy the cursed gear.

[Sargent]

Luckily, Pet:MAB is a common augment on A.Feet, so getting the augment itself shouldn't take too long. Maxing it, however is a different story. I can only compare it to my Zenith Crown +1, where it took 60 or so tries to get MAB+5, and MAB was the 100% augment from HQ on that one.

[Alhanelem]

I'd work on the perp staves 1st, you'll get more use out of them.The perp staves are not needed at all. You should be able to negate perp cost without them. Least of all needed is the dark perp staff; Fenrir is cheaper and Diabolos has refresh favor. Soulscourge is pretty much the best general purpose staff there is right now.

I love how they made people waste time by teasing them with these perp staves, then releasing a slew of perp - and refresh on the empyrean +2.

[Korpg]

The perp staves are not needed at all. You should be able to negate perp cost without them. Least of all needed is the dark perp staff; Fenrir is cheaper and Diabolos has refresh favor. Soulscourge is pretty much the best general purpose staff there is right now.

I love how they made people waste time by teasing them with these perp staves, then releasing a slew of perp - and refresh on the empyrean +2.

I was referring to the -10 BP part of the staves.

[Razushu]

The perp staves are not needed at all. You should be able to negate perp cost without them. Least of all needed is the dark perp staff; Fenrir is cheaper and Diabolos has refresh favor. Soulscourge is pretty much the best general purpose staff there is right now.

I love how they made people waste time by teasing them with these perp staves, then releasing a slew of perp - and refresh on the empyrean +2.

Pretty much 1/2'd perp cost and -10 BP delay is hard to beat on a staff. That much perp cost on a single piece can free up other slots with less -perp for other things, like say AF pants and relic gloves to help with Avatar accuracy. Soulscrouge is still a marco piece, and besides the SMN mag skill and Blood Boon it's inferrior to some of the other choices.