We need a crown

[Neonii]

I look at the other jobs who get those crowns on their threads and I think we should advocate for a crown on threads which address smn concerns.

[Korpg]

SE doesn't care about SMN that much.

It took them 6 years to give us 2 Astral Flow only avatars. We have been waiting for another actual avatar since Diabolos, oh so long ago.

[JackDaniels]

Wow you summoners sure are good at crying.

[Razushu]

Wow you summoners sure are good at crying.


It's one of our Group one merits.

Although in all honesty it seems as if SE is finally getting it right with SMN, so I for one am going to wait until at least the next update before I start worrying again.

[Vangoh]

Wow you summoners sure are good at crying.

Hey THF this is SMN onry forums go away!

[Malamasala]

Wow you summoners sure are good at crying.

It is quite natural to cry when you are bullied. And completely ignoring a job's feedback for 10 years is bullying if I ever saw it. Extra obvious when other jobs get feedback, but we don't.

I'm more worried about SE that doesn't even care that they have multiple job classes crying.

[Korpg]

It is quite natural to cry when you are bullied. And completely ignoring a job's feedback for 10 years is bullying if I ever saw it. Extra obvious when other jobs get feedback, but we don't.

I'm more worried about SE that doesn't even care that they have multiple job classes crying.

ITT: Being ignored is the same as being bullied. Being forgotten is the new wedgie!

[Razushu]

ITT: Being ignored is the same as being bullied. Being forgotten is the new wedgie!

sometimes man.... you're just really funny.

[Malamasala]

ITT: Being ignored is the same as being bullied.

It is common knowledge. Well, common among people who read magazines and news.


Other obvious bullying behaviours:

* Public humiliation
* Personal insults and name-calling
* Persistent criticism
* Spreading malicious rumours
* Freezing out, ignoring or excluding
* Constantly undervaluing effort

First google source I could find (http://ring.uvic.ca/98mar20/Bullying.html)

[Korpg]

Wow, I can't believe how thin skinned people have gotten.

There is being ignored when you are trying to bring attention to yourself, and there is being looked over. The first is being "bullied" at the most extreme stretching of the definition, and the other, you aren't important enough to be looked at.

You are the second one. Why would anyone want to pay attention to you when you aren't important enough as is?

[Malamasala]

Wow, I can't believe how thin skinned people have gotten.

There is being ignored when you are trying to bring attention to yourself, and there is being looked over. The first is being "bullied" at the most extreme stretching of the definition, and the other, you aren't important enough to be looked at.

You are the second one. Why would anyone want to pay attention to you when you aren't important enough as is?

It is funny that you think I talk about myself. I talk about Summoners as a group. I haven't seen any replies at all to anyone.

And if you say Summoners are a group, are not worthy to pay attention to, then I guess we just have it really bad.

[Dallas]

I turned this job (I won't say which one, just in case Korpg pretends to read this post) into a top 10 job. The melee weapon of choice has finally shown up on the annual survey.

If SE makes adjustments based on volume of playerbase playing the job, then this job is due more attention than it has received in the past. Expect all of those "we'll get around to it" decisions to get more attention now.

[Meyi]

Come on Korpg, don't be a jerk. Haha.

When I initially read "Summoner's need a crown", I totally thought you meant as a head piece. >w< How cool would it be to have an Opo-Opo Crown with a horn in the center? So tacky it'd be bad ass!

[Razushu]

I turned this job (I won't say which one, just in case Korpg pretends to read this post) into a top 10 job. The melee weapon of choice has finally shown up on the annual survey.

If SE makes adjustments based on volume of playerbase playing the job, then this job is due more attention than it has received in the past. Expect all of those "we'll get around to it" decisions to get more attention now.

You're a really funny guy, you know that? I actually enjoy your crazy claims.

It apears you're now going to claim to be responible for any update SMN gets in the near future, I can't wait:D

[Korpg]

It is funny that you think I talk about myself. I talk about Summoners as a group. I haven't seen any replies at all to anyone.

And if you say Summoners are a group, are not worthy to pay attention to, then I guess we just have it really bad.

Well, you are the only one here who seems to think that we are being bullied by being ignored.

[Malamasala]

Well, you are the only one here who seems to think that we are being bullied by being ignored.

Yea, everyone thinks the job is ignored, and I use a fancier name because I can. Same thing, I'm just simply cooler than the rest of you.

[Razushu]

Yea, everyone thinks the job is ignored, and I use a fancier name because I can. Same thing, I'm just simply cooler than the rest of you.

I honestly don't think we're being ignored, I think that time is passed. Looking at some of the stuff we've gotten past 75 cap makes me very hopeful for the future of SMN.

[Malamasala]

I honestly don't think we're being ignored, I think that time is passed. Looking at some of the stuff we've gotten past 75 cap makes me very hopeful for the future of SMN.

You think getting anything at all proves SE is caring for us, while I think getting less than other jobs is being ignored.

Pretty much just depend on if you are an optimist, or someone who strive for equality.

[Korpg]

You think getting anything at all proves SE is caring for us, while I think getting less than other jobs is being ignored.

Pretty much just depend on if you are an optimist, or someone who strive for equality.

Um....getting attention is the opposite of being ignored, right?

SMN has been getting attention for years (see: Odin/Alexander, however failures they were, they were still new avatars we wanted for years) and you still think SMN is getting ignored?

Is it because you want to fix something that nobody wants fixed? I mean, if it isn't broken, why fix it?

[Miera]

Crowns? Forget that.. I just want my friggen spirit pacts to actually be more useful. ><

[Dallas]

You're a really funny guy, you know that? I actually enjoy your crazy claims.

It apears you're now going to claim to be responible for any update SMN gets in the near future, I can't wait:D

I'll take credit if you find yourself running out of MP.

[Korpg]

I'll take credit if you find yourself running out of MP.

I'll take credit if you find yourself not being able to melee anymore because you waste too much keeping the avatar out.

-20 perp cost anyone?

[Dallas]

That was coherent for once, Korpg. Too bad no one ever taught you manners. I wasn't talking to you, so get lost.

[Raxiaz]

Personally I think SMN is a pretty cool job. It summons teh avatars and isn't afraid of anythign!

[Malamasala]

Personally I think SMN is a pretty cool job. It summons teh avatars and isn't afraid of anythign!

I'm afraid of all monsters in pairs though. Stupid body guard pets can't whack two mobs at once!

[Korpg]

I'm afraid of all monsters in pairs though. Stupid body guard pets can't whack two mobs at once!

Neither can melees, but that is besides the point.

Unless you are a WAR with Retaliation up, and both mobs are directly in front of you, and hitting you.

[Razushu]

You think getting anything at all proves SE is caring for us, while I think getting less than other jobs is being ignored.

Pretty much just depend on if you are an optimist, or someone who strive for equality.

Frozen perp cost, better access to - perp gear, adjustments to buffs, proposed new avatars, an ability to address our BP delay(the biggest negative to SMN). Since 75 cap we've gotten alot of help, with more to come.

Most ignored job since 75 cap until this last update was actually SAM, they got nothing but a circle II ability until this update. SE is paying kore attention than ever to our job, and I for one am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Razushu]

I'll take credit if you find yourself running out of MP.

If anyone finds themselves running out of MP, it's not a buff. Cling to your little dreamland where the only place SMN has unlimited MP is meleeing exp mobs if you want. The rest of us will play with our unlimited MP everywhere.

[Razushu]

I'm afraid of all monsters in pairs though. Stupid body guard pets can't whack two mobs at once!

Avatar's don't need to, they just need to p*ss off one while beating another into the ground.

[Malamasala]

SE is paying more attention than ever to our job, and I for one am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I still find us far too ignored on the item side. Like in Dynamis there are "Pet: accuracy +" ranged slot... for all jobs except SMN. Or rather that isn't ignored, that is flat out bullied.

[Razushu]

I still find us far too ignored on the item side. Like in Dynamis there are "Pet: accuracy +" ranged slot... for all jobs except SMN. Or rather that isn't ignored, that is flat out bullied.

4 acc is meh tbh(not that I wouldn't like it). Not that I want to start a melee grr debate in here, but this piece seems like a melee pet job piece. Which SE seems fairly clear that they want SMN to be played as a mage. They also probably thought acc is kind of superflous with the acc from smn mag skill over cap and acc off af pants and relic gloves.

Weighed against the list of things thet're doing right lately leaving us off the odd piece of gear, doesn't seem that severe to me.

[Dallas]

If anyone finds themselves running out of MP, it's not a buff.

Not for the gimp SMN, I agree. You could always cap your staff skill and go run WOE for a few days. Then you'd get a chance to run with the big boys.

[Razushu]

Not for the gimp SMN, I agree. You could always cap your staff skill and go run WOE for a few days. Then you'd get a chance to run with the big boys.

I'd rather not join the lolDallas club I like actually being welcome to things. With /SCH I have unlimited MP(hell with /WHM it's not even a problem. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed in the upcoming update(I doubt the ability will cost much guessing something in the ballpark of a 25% increase in cost for a 25% reduction in delay).

I could easily handle that now as /SCH(probably /WHM too), forgetting the fact that I've yet to level /RDM which will give me even more MP back. Nobody has MP problems anymore little guy, and no matter how desperately you we we would again, it's not going to happen.

[Dallas]

Lol, I see you chose to melee with H2H as your SMN.

[Razushu]

Lol, I see you chose to melee with H2H as your SMN.

Oh come on, I hope you can do better than that. Leave that weak sh*t at home.

[Korpg]

Lol, I see you chose to melee with H2H as your SMN.

Don't you see, he is nuking thar. And yet, he still does more damage by nuking than you do by meleeing.

[Dallas]

That may very well be a nuke. It seems to be going off behind him.

[Razushu]

That may very well be a nuke. It seems to be going off behind him.

Hmmm.... What kind of spell would a Summoner cast where the effect would appear behind him? I know it's a toughy unless you have SMN leveled Dallas, but I'll give you a hint it's a 6 letter word ______ and it rhymes with car.

[Sasaraixx]

Razushu and Korpg, your signatures are awesome!!

That is my contribution to this thread. Haha

[Korpg]

Why thank you.

[Malamasala]

Hmmm.... What kind of spell would a Summoner cast where the effect would appear behind him? I know it's a toughy unless you have SMN leveled Dallas, but I'll give you a hint it's a 6 letter word ______ and it rhymes with car.

I twist and turn it, but fire spirit never rhymes with car, or fit in 6 letters.

[Bubeeky]

so much anger between fellow summoners :( anyway, potentially stupid question warning, what's this crown ppl are talking about? An actual crown like the glory crown from ToAU? or am I missing some completely obvious other meaning?

[Razushu]

I twist and turn it, but fire spirit never rhymes with car, or fit in 6 letters.

I like you so I'm going to assume thats sarcasm.:D

[Razushu]

so much anger between fellow summoners :( anyway, potentially stupid question warning, what's this crown ppl are talking about? An actual crown like the glory crown from ToAU? or am I missing some completely obvious other meaning?

The crown that appears on the thread icon indicating a SE rep has posted a reply in it.

[Razushu]

Actually on topic for once:D, I think we'd have gotten a crown before now if we behaved differently on the forums. SMNs keep opening negative soudning topics and bashing SE, no wonder they don't bother replying lol. Also threads demanding stuff SE doesn't feel are needed or meant to be part of the job will probably get ignored, cases in point the we need melee traits threads and the constant demands for spirits to be buffed. SE has clearly decided meleeing isn't part of the job role(not saying don't ever do it) but they want us to backline, and the fact the don't answer anything to do with spirits means they feel they're fine as is. If we all actually got together and decided on some almost united front on what was needed we might actually start getting replies.

[Neonii]

Actually on topic for once:D, I think we'd have gotten a crown before now if we behaved differently on the forums. SMNs keep opening negative soudning topics and bashing SE, no wonder they don't bother replying lol. Also threads demanding stuff SE doesn't feel are needed or meant to be part of the job will probably get ignored, cases in point the we need melee traits threads and the constant demands for spirits to be buffed. SE has clearly decided meleeing isn't part of the job role(not saying don't ever do it) but they want us to backline, and the fact the don't answer anything to do with spirits means they feel they're fine as is. If we all actually got together and decided on some almost united front on what was needed we might actually start getting replies.

Quoted for truth! do we really have enough discipline to stay on topic instead of re-hash the same arguments thread after thread? I'd love one that stays on the topic and focused on solutions especially in general forums. Amazing how the smn response has gone so far off topic. You hit it on the head after all who wants to read the same arguments regardless of the topic of the thread?.

[Dallas]

I twist and turn it, but fire spirit never rhymes with car, or fit in 6 letters.
I figured out what is behind him. Raz summoned a... wait for it... "bigfar"

(He had to drop the "t" to fit it in 6 letters.)

[Razushu]

I figured out what is behind him. Raz summoned a... wait for it... "bigfar"

(He had to drop the "t" to fit it in 6 letters.)

So that's where you were all day yesterday and today, thinking up that little gem?

[Dallas]

You missed me. How cute!

[JackDaniels]

Quoted for truth! do we really have enough discipline to stay on topic instead of re-hash the same arguments thread after thread? I'd love one that stays on the topic and focused on solutions especially in general forums. Amazing how the smn response has gone so far off topic. You hit it on the head after all who wants to read the same arguments regardless of the topic of the thread?.

Yes, we need twice as many individual threads for summoner as possible. We need to fill the new posts page with at least 50% summoner threads (oh wait i think it's already at that point) so we can have dedicated bickering about each distinct topic. Lol sorry :) I just lol every time I see a new SMN thread after that whole "SE is bullying us" thread.

[Razushu]

You missed me. How cute!

Yeah there was a distinct lack of stupid posts to make fun of, I had to make do with reasoned debate, and facts.

[Korpg]

Yeah there was a distinct lack of stupid posts to make fun of, I had to make do with reasoned debate, and facts.

Yeah, and it was boring having to talk about stuff like what we would like implemented and how to make this job better and more dependable.

We want more mindless banter, like melee summoner.

[Malamasala]

Actually on topic for once:D, I think we'd have gotten a crown before now if we behaved differently on the forums. SMNs keep opening negative soudning topics and bashing SE, no wonder they don't bother replying lol. Also threads demanding stuff SE doesn't feel are needed or meant to be part of the job will probably get ignored, cases in point the we need melee traits threads and the constant demands for spirits to be buffed. SE has clearly decided meleeing isn't part of the job role(not saying don't ever do it) but they want us to backline, and the fact the don't answer anything to do with spirits means they feel they're fine as is. If we all actually got together and decided on some almost united front on what was needed we might actually start getting replies.

Sadly I don't want to accept that truth. (Since it means the next 2 avatars are 2 hour only, because they didn't reply to the thread where we asked for them to be pets instead)

But I would agree with you partially. I'm sure Camate would instantly answer a thread, if we asked the correct question. Like if they were just now changing the glow effect, and you made a thread "Please change the glow effect". The problem is figuring out exactly what they are doing, so we can make a thread about it.

[Bubeeky]

Sadly I don't want to accept that truth. (Since it means the next 2 avatars are 2 hour only, because they didn't reply to the thread where we asked for them to be pets instead)

But I would agree with you partially. I'm sure Camate would instantly answer a thread, if we asked the correct question. Like if they were just now changing the glow effect, and you made a thread "Please change the glow effect". The problem is figuring out exactly what they are doing, so we can make a thread about it.

or perhaps getting along a little better so that the smns as a whole can ask questions, rather than argue with each other about stupid things....Camate and the others seem to respond better when the right question as u put it is discussed at length by the <insert job here>'s community....

[Neonii]

Yes, we need twice as many individual threads for summoner as possible. We need to fill the new posts page with at least 50% summoner threads (oh wait i think it's already at that point) so we can have dedicated bickering about each distinct topic. Lol sorry :) I just lol every time I see a new SMN thread after that whole "SE is bullying us" thread.

Hum I will say this the threads which get crowns tend to be organized and on point. Carry on making arguments, I would not respond to such threads either.

Edit: I am not above pleading for the cause, please, please, please keep the new thread he made on general forums clean, organized and focused on the topic.

[Korpg]

or perhaps getting along a little better so that the smns as a whole can ask questions, rather than argue with each other about stupid things....Camate and the others seem to respond better when the right question as u put it is discussed at length by the <insert job here>'s community....

That is the point, not everyone can agree what a SMN's role in a party truly is.

[Bubeeky]

That is the point, not everyone can agree what a SMN's role in a party truly is.

shouldn't that be the question/discussion then? instead of flame wars and insults?

[Korpg]

shouldn't that be the question/discussion then? instead of flame wars and insults?

Only people really handing out the insults are the promelee crowd. So, we give them back to the promelee crowd. Seems only fitting that you receive what you hand out.

[Bubeeky]

Only people really handing out the insults are the promelee crowd. So, we give them back to the promelee crowd. Seems only fitting that you receive what you hand out.

I understand that, but as summoners, we have to agree on what the questions are and stop the insults and anger before we can legitimately expect Camate or anyone else to come in here to talk to us, so instead of fueling the fire, how about just ignoring the insults and trying to find a question or problem we'd want Camate to answer?

The way this thread is now, it's accomplishing nothing for summoners as a whole and is making us seem rediculous with all this infighting...

[Razushu]

And...... We have our Crown!

[Malamasala]

Only people really handing out the insults are the promelee crowd. So, we give them back to the promelee crowd. Seems only fitting that you receive what you hand out.

You make it sound like two big factions. Isn't it closer to me, Dallas and darn.. what is the galka called? And on the other side Korpg, Razushu and that lionheart fellow.

Besides, I'm not really pro melee. I'm pro Summoner. Spirits, staffs, wards, rages, pets, all of it. I care for the full job, not as some others who only accept the good parts of the job.

[Bubeeky]

You make it sound like two big factions. Isn't it closer to me, Dallas and darn.. what is the galka called? And on the other side Korpg, Razushu and that lionheart fellow.

Besides, I'm not really pro melee. I'm pro Summoner. Spirits, staffs, wards, rages, pets, all of it. I care for the full job, not as some others who only accept the good parts of the job.

Ty Mala, pro summoner is a good way to put it :)

[Korpg]

You make it sound like two big factions. Isn't it closer to me, Dallas and darn.. what is the galka called? And on the other side Korpg, Razushu and that lionheart fellow.

Besides, I'm not really pro melee. I'm pro Summoner. Spirits, staffs, wards, rages, pets, all of it. I care for the full job, not as some others who only accept the good parts of the job.

You are actually pro melee. You have stated many times that you would whack stuff to keep the damage up, but not whack off on everything. Our argument against that is TP feed. You don't acknowledge TP feed, so that puts you into pro melee side of the line.

[Malamasala]

You are actually pro melee. You have stated many times that you would whack stuff to keep the damage up, but not whack off on everything. Our argument against that is TP feed. You don't acknowledge TP feed, so that puts you into pro melee side of the line.

On the contrary, I know exactly how to deal with TP. If the NM will cause problems from TP feed, then there won't be any WARs or SAMs or RNGs on it, because it would be bad. At most it would be BLMs, who'd feed a tiny bit TP but do massive damage. And when the TP move goes off, they are out of range. So TP feeding is an argument against ALL melee jobs, not against SMN.

Besides, SMN isn't a worse TP feeder than BST, PUP, DNC, THF. It is mainly just a worse damage dealer. The best part though, is that you can avoid TP feeding by just disengaging when it becomes a problem, instead of never engaging for a "what if" scenario.

[Korpg]

On the contrary, I know exactly how to deal with TP. If the NM will cause problems from TP feed, then there won't be any WARs or SAMs or RNGs on it, because it would be bad.

Sorry, had to bring this out to show you that you don't know how to deal with TP. Why take the tank away from the NM? Who is going to deal damage? How are you going to kill anything if you take the one job that is capable of dealing a lot of damage to a mob while maintaining hate and, if the WAR is smart enough, tankability? SAMs, maybe, RNGs? Seriously? They don't really feed that much TP at all to be honest, and it wouldn't be hard for them to stop, you know, shooting. They don't even need a weapon out to do damage.


At most it would be BLMs, who'd feed a tiny bit TP but do massive damage. And when the TP move goes off, they are out of range. So TP feeding is an argument against ALL melee jobs, not against SMN.

And yet again, you don't know anything about TP feed, or really, enmity. WARs on the mob is completely acceptable because they can tank while doing damage. Can you say the same for BLMs?


Besides, SMN isn't a worse TP feeder than BST, PUP, DNC, THF. It is mainly just a worse damage dealer. The best part though, is that you can avoid TP feeding by just disengaging when it becomes a problem, instead of never engaging for a "what if" scenario.

BST: only if the master is with the pet whacking off on a mob, then you have a point.
PUP: only if the master is with the pet whacking off on the mob, but BLM automations can do the same thing as a SMN in dealing with hate free damage.
DNC: Subtle Blow says hi.
THF: SA/TA says hi. Sure it deals TP, but for the damage delt, the damage is worth the TP fed to the mob.

You can also avoid feeding TP by just not meleeing at all. Did you know that?

[Bubeeky]

I'm not a huge fan of meleeing on smn....not because I don't melee on a mage, matter of fact, I set my whm up for melee quite often :) my problem is that as a taru smn, if I get sneezed on during a stiff wind, I get killed lol so I prefer to keep myself out of danger :)

[Malamasala]

Sorry, had to bring this out to show you that you don't know how to deal with TP.

I'm pretty sure it is obvious you are the one who do not know. Considering my rules of play is "Melee when it is safe" and yours is "Any SMN on any monster means TP spam so whole party wipes".

PS. I thought it was obvious one tank WAR could stay, but I guess for Korpg needs everything spelled out to avoid him thinking everyone else is an idiot.

[Korpg]

I'm pretty sure it is obvious you are the one who do not know. Considering my rules of play is "Melee when it is safe" and yours is "Any SMN on any monster means TP spam so whole party wipes".

PS. I thought it was obvious one tank WAR could stay, but I guess for Korpg needs everything spelled out to avoid him thinking everyone else is an idiot.

Too many melees on any mob is TP spam. So you leave out the melees that do the least amount of damage. The days of throwing bodies on a mob to kill it are over. Which, by the sounds of it, your alliance still does.

Even if the mob you are killing doesn't have any "dangerous" TP moves, you can still wipe a party/alliance by feeding TP on it. I have seen alliances wipe to Aggressor Antlion where I have soloed it easy. Same to that dragon in the canyon that flies all the time.

You still don't know anything about being a real DD.

[Dallas]

I'm not a huge fan of meleeing on smn....not because I don't melee on a mage, matter of fact, I set my whm up for melee quite often :) my problem is that as a taru smn, if I get sneezed on during a stiff wind, I get killed lol so I prefer to keep myself out of danger :)

What is your HP at? I'm around 2k in Abyssea, which is more than enough to allow myself to be sneezed on. Outside, everything meleeable uses a hankerchief to sneeze.

[Malamasala]

You can keep spreading your doom and gloom view of the game all you want. I know how to balance the thin line between danger and safety to my own advantage.

Notice though that my advantage is not the alliance advantage. If it was, I'd quit SMN and play WAR or WHM.

[Dallas]

He has to preach "TP feed" now. He has wasted too many posts validating his choice to deal half the damage of a melee SMN.

[Korpg]

He has to preach "TP feed" now. He has wasted too many posts validating his choice to deal half the damage of a melee SMN.

Show me your parse then on what a melee SMN can do. On something worth fighting. Like Pantokrator.