Raise dance

[Onii]

As a main dancer, I know many many dancers have thought of this and wanted this type of thing for awhile. I think it would be an amazing idea to give us dancers a dancing waltz or jig that can support our parties or random outside adventurers with a Raise.

I mean, come on we can heal up to great numbers in HP even erase debuffs. But how many times have you come across someone who died and felt completely useless because you couldn't do anything about it? I know I have. Even if it's raise 1, I think it would be nice to throw in a new dance animation to raise the unfortunate. A Dispel flourish would be nice to :P just sayin'.

[Jenenibui]

i would poop bricks for raise dance of some sort. I would probably do dirtier things for a dispel flourish or whatever! Just tell me what you want me to do SE!!!

[Lilsanchez]

I agree to this, as DNC is suppose to be somewhat of a main healer for situations, raise would be very helpful also lol

[AyinDygra]

The lore of Dancers seems to dismiss a "Raise dance" existing in the Dancer Job's "Kriegstanz" school of dance. Necromancy was used to raise the undead and "Kriegstanz" was able to counteract it. If "Kriegstanz" dancers HAD a "Raise Dance", they would most likely have used it during the war.

An ability from that lore that WOULD fit Dancer is something that causes extreme damage to the undead.
Also, a "Dispel" ability would fit according to that lore too.

We could potentially get "Totentanz" as a method of raising dead party members as "pets" for a short time :p I kid... or do I? :)

(The lore can be found here: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dancers,_Maidens_of_the_Battlefield )

[Catmato]

Yes, but Raise doesn't revive the dead. It revives the knocked-out.

[Amanie]

raise jig!!! raise waltz would be funny cause you have to use TP.

dispel flourish!!! 1-5 moves used up will dispel 1-5 buffs. i would kick a puppy for that

[Radio]

Add a dispel effect to animated flourish with a low chance of effect on it's own. If it dispels you don't get the enmity but your JA timer goes to 30s cool down. If you are unable to dispel you get the enmity and your recast timer is only 10s to try again. Let it stack with Presto and of course get enhanced with stutter step.

I know dispel is pretty necessary for DNC but I'm trying to think of ways to make it more interesting...

[Zachary90]

I've been wanting this ever since DNC came out
Raise Waltz
TP: 100+
raise 1
uses all TP
that would be fine with me

[Dhragon]

raise jig!!! raise waltz would be funny cause you have to use TP.

dispel flourish!!! 1-5 moves used up will dispel 1-5 buffs. i would kick a puppy for that

Using TP at this point is irrelevant. With fully merited reverse flourish and AF3+2 gloves we get 100 TP on each reverse flourish use. So even if they tagged a "Raise Waltz" with a TP cost of 150 and we had 0 at the time, it would only take us 3 min (without fighting or being in Abyssea or subbing Sam) to have enough TP to raise someone.

Edit: BTW, I've been hoping for a raise dance for a very long time...make it happen, please. :D

[Amanie]

min just to raise a random poor soul... i got more important things to do with my time (not really).side note, unless you got 5moves to use you arent reversing just yet. so from purely 0 tp and without fighting and no moves, it will take 6min to raise at a cost of 101+ TP.
on top of having to use lolTP to raise, your forget every dancers pet peeve, the waltz recast. further thinking, a jig could be a tad overboard. things go hell and dnc is the only person left standing, raise jig the mage instantly =O.

[Dhragon]

Since we're already working with the fact that the Dnc has fully merited RF, it is not a hard stretch to believe that that same Dnc has fully merited no foot rise. So, from 0 TP you'd no foot rise to 5 finishing moves, RF for 100 TP, wait 3 minutes and do it again. And if you're "too busy" to raise someone then it sucks to be them. Giving Dnc a way to raise without the cost of TP is simply absurd. Also, at this stage in a Dnc's life, using the waltz recast as a reason to not want it to be a waltz is lame. If the Dnc needs to choose between raising the mage or healing someone else...then the fit has already hit the shan and it's a moot choice.

[JagerForrester]

Yes, but Raise doesn't revive the dead. It revives the knocked-out.

I dunno. Still sounds necromantic. I can't see a dancer doing it at a with my view of the job. And I don't main dancer, so my opinion is next to null. Just throwing 2 gil here.

[Chilzen]

DNC would greatly benefit from some form of raise dance or ability. After seeing how Healing Waltz can cure mostly any status effect inflicted to a person, as well as how potent the Curing Waltz line is compared to the traditional Cure spells, it almost seems silly for DNC to lack a raise ability.

To most, DNC is a very potent support job to have in their parties, and I think it would help greatly if we DNC could assist in raising fallen members when accidents happen, instead of sitting on nearly full TP nowadays due to how fast we can gain it.

[Onii]

Reason why I'd personally choose Jig over Waltz is because, Waltz are instant and if this Raise dance comes into play I don't think it should be an Instant cast, which Waltz are. Since Jigs take a little longer to cast such as Chocobo I figure they could throw in a new animation for a raise. Like someone said above also if it was a Waltz it would probably be a pretty hefty Recast so unless they do separate our Waltz timers, thats probably not a great idea lol.

Also Raise dance being at the cost of 0 TP is not exactly "absurd" because think about brd, they can issue a full party Re-raise, in a couple seconds. It's not a very potent raise but it is a raise none the less. This is why i said it should be at the max a raise 1. I wouldn't mind it costing TP but if this were to happen I think it would have to automatically be available for anyone on the job, without throwing in gear such as AF and merits. So even if you are to RF or have full RF merits to get more TP as well with the AF, those are all outside resources for extra TP. But if this was made, its going to be a raw ability to the job meaning a DNC should be able to pull this off without other sources. If it was to cost any TP for any reason I would say make it 60TP since thats the normal amount you get with 5 FM's.

Overall though I'd rather it be a free Jig, that way some people can avoid having to find a mob to get TP/FM on if they do not have full merits, and because I don't think it should be an instant cast but a longer dance animation.

[JagerForrester]

Ritual Dance?

[Amanie]

all dnc abilities are instant, event the jigs. the animation prevents you from moving, but not from using other abilities or spells.
A jig would not only cost no TP, it would look better. waltz, enjoy that recast time.

5/5 NFR is not my style. hail 5/5 CP

[Alkalinehoe]

inb4 SE makes Raise Waltz in same category with 15min cooldown.

[Onii]

Yea you are right Amanie, I forgot that it is instant just could not move. Hmm, so i guess would have to create a timer for it? or create some special condition to use it? ><

[Dawnn]

a dispel weapon or a dispel weaponskill would be cool :3

I for one loved the ogre jambiya back in the day due to its ability to get all those random enspell debuffs or whatever

i thought they were cool :3

[Onii]

I don't know about a weaponskill but, a weapon wouldn't be bad except that it wouldn't be that reliable, since we wouldn't have control over when or what it will dispel. So if we were to get it id rather it be a flourish lol.

[Amanie]

dispel flourish would be fun. dispel step would be more balanced? dispel samba would be interesting

[Triquarter]

I never thought of a Raise dance, but I had thought of a Aspir Walze, we have Samba so seemed logical to me,
although this is irrelevant inside Abyssea with all the refresh mages get, It would make DNC more practical in Dynamis or other events outside of Abyssea.

[Delvante]

Yep I agree, I've been wanting a Raise and a Dispel for DNC for a very very long time. Considering what we do for parties and such...it's just a necessity.

[Dawnn]

enflash or enslow was hella cool

i definetly kinda miss it, i wanna use it again but the add effect itself doesnt warrant the use of an old fay weapon lol

edit: enstun or a weapon with stun on it would be hella cool, :3

[Panthera]

AHHHH! I've been frustrated with this for forever!

A healing job that can't raise? Seriously?

And while they're at it, a Dispel Step, too!

[Starcade]

I always figured Raise Dance, or some such, would be a 99 DNC ability

[MiriOhki]

Personally I don't know that the Raise move would make much sense, but I've been wanting a dispel flourish for ages.

[Byrth]

Dispel Flourish would be fantastic and Raise move wouldn't really matter for me.

[Zachary90]

why not something like this ;)
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Reverie_Frolic

[Yundala]

DNC is a front line healer not a main healer. If DNC was meant to be a main healer then i could see SE making it so they did a have a raise abilitie. Also they would have made a merited abilitie that would have enhanced waltzes just like we have saber dance for DD and fan dance for tanking. Making it a jig would make no sense since jigs only enhance the Dnc and no one else. If anything I'm really surprised we don't already have a dispelling flourish, but I could see the ACC really sucking for it. Now what I would love to see is a store tp or regain samba or even a way to spread a samba to a alliance, something that would make DNC more desireable for possable end game scenarios.

[Kari]

DNC is a front line healer not a main healer. If DNC was meant to be a main healer then i could see SE making it so they did a have a raise abilitie. Also they would have made a merited abilitie that would have enhanced waltzes just like we have saber dance for DD and fan dance for tanking. Making it a jig would make no sense since jigs only enhance the Dnc and no one else. If anything I'm really surprised we don't already have a dispelling flourish, but I could see the ACC really sucking for it. Now what I would love to see is a store tp or regain samba or even a way to spread a samba to a alliance, something that would make DNC more desireable for possable end game scenarios.

So from what you're saying, any job that's not a "main healer" shouldn't be able to Raise or even have decent curing capabilities?
In any battle that's not a complete joke, DNC can't keep up with the curing due to the recasts. Would much rather be limited to TP, rather than recasts.
RDM, SCH, and BLM are not meant to be "main healers", but even a BLM/WHM can keep cures going better than a DNC right now. RDM gets Raise, SCH gets Raise, BRD at least gets an AoE Reraise and will usually sub WHM for Raise anyway.

Personally I don't really mind if DNC doesn't get a form of Raise, as it would have been more useful during the XPing days than it would at end-game, but I don't really see a reason not to have it either.

As far as Sambas go, you'd have to have an extremely potent Store TP Samba to make a DNC drop their Haste Samba. >_>
I really can't see SE giving us any Sambas and us actually using them, unless they plan on allowing us to use it with Haste Samba. [Somehow]

[pheare]

I've wanted a Raise for DNC for a while now.

"Pheonix Waltz" would be an awesome name.

150%TP Would be fine for me to raise

[Amanie]

most ppls version of raise waltz is silly =p. make it interesting!!! reraise samba, raise flourish or jig.

or make us DNCs cry. raise waltz recast 5min and 300tp cost. the current dev team is giving things out, so lets ask wisely!! jigs are free, waltzes arent

old dev team has left their mark on our psyche.... we think we cant have without sacrifice

[Abithra]

Suppose it would be nice but kinda useless when I mainly solo all the time XD

If we get some more powerful debuffing/buffing dances (aka Sensual Dance, Thorned Stance, etc.) then what the hell why not otherwise rather not lose those to a Raise dance~

Where they to add it Phoenix Waltz would be a nice name :3

[pheare]

most ppls version of raise waltz is silly =p. make it interesting!!! reraise samba, raise flourish or jig.

or make us DNCs cry. raise waltz recast 5min and 300tp cost. the current dev team is giving things out, so lets ask wisely!! jigs are free, waltzes arent

old dev team has left their mark on our psyche.... we think we cant have without sacrifice

Well I think the most reason people assume it would be a Waltz is because Waltz moves cure at the cost of TP, samba and flourish moves effect the enemy. Jigs are self buffs. So it would make sense that TP would be traded for a raise.

Also, the recast of waltz affect every waltz, so if it was 5 minutes it wouldn't be able to do any waltz for 5 minutes. So I think it should be a balance of recast time and TP.

I understand that Dancer's wouldn't be using Raise a lot of the time, it would just be nice in those situations where it'd be needed. If you're duoing and your partner dies and doesn't have reraise, or maybe mass death and you just want to help people get up faster.

It's kind of like how PLD got raise. It's not usually a tank that should be raising other people. PLDs are usually with a mage that can raise, but sometimes it's just nice to be able to use it when the situation calls for it.

[Komori]

Where they to add it Phoenix Waltz would be a nice name :3

I vote for Lap Dance. Since a majority of the time, they're sure to raise someone out there. :U

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just let me fox trot your colen back into place first.

[Glamdring]

no! just no... 5.5 jobs with the ability to raise is enough (whm, rdm, pld, sch and summoner via light elemental, plus bard's Hymnus for the .5).

for balance, jobs need abilities that define them. Just giving more abilities to already loaded jobs does nothing but weaken the need for other jobs to good play. I love my 90 dancer, and I'm pretty good at it too. I do not want to be raising, dispelling, main tanking or whatever tho. I leveled this job to be able to play a job something like a rdm's place but with noone complaining if I drew my melee weapon; if I actually wanted to take a rdm's role i would have levelled rdm to 90 instead.

Dancer has alot to offer as it is, is already equal to if not better than beast as a soloer, and is almost interchangable in party situations with ninja, thief or monk. This is a jack of all trades job, the other jobs SHOULD be better than dancer in their areas, whm is a dedicated healer job and should almost always be preferable as a main healer as an example.

Seriously, if i wanted to play a game in god-mode I'd fire up Quake again...

[Yundala]

The reason RDM and SCH have raise is because they are the jack of all trades mages. RDM can main heal, enfeeble and somewhat DD. SCH can main heal, DD and enfeeble. While WHM is best choice for healing, RDM and SCH can fill the same gap, that is a reason they have raise. The bard reraise is just useless no matter how you look at it because it takes up 1 of the 2 songs you can have up, not one good bard even uses it.

I do agree with Glamdring, jobs do need abilities that define them.

[Yuriki]

The reason RDM and SCH have raise is because they are the jack of all trades mages. RDM can main heal, enfeeble and somewhat DD. SCH can main heal, DD and enfeeble. While WHM is best choice for healing, RDM and SCH can fill the same gap, that is a reason they have raise. The bard reraise is just useless no matter how you look at it because it takes up 1 of the 2 songs you can have up, not one good bard even uses it.

I do agree with Glamdring, jobs do need abilities that define them.

No good bards use Hymnus? Sure it's not good to full time Hymnus, but when you know your party is going to die regardless of you healing them then a quick Hymnus can save the day. Just think, a GOOD blink tank, such as dnc, that can tank even while weakened. I duo with my dnc and a brd sometimes, and I always tell my brd to Hymnus if it looks like I'm going to eat dirt, which is very rare but I digress. Also, if are good at keeping track of the mobs TP you can make Hymnus even more useful against mobs that have death/doom TP moves. You know Sobek is going to use a TP move soon? Hymnus. Just trying to make a point that Hymnus is def. useful, if used correctly.

Regardless, I think it's high time that dnc gets a new type of dance category. Something to the effect of a "stance" or reverse samba. Say you have a "stance" that, if you evade a melee attack, you gain a certain buff, or if you get hit by an attack you get a certain buff. This would give the party a new enhancement besides the only-samba-used (albeit very awesome) haste samba.

Does anyone have a good idea for a "stance" type category? Perhaps if you had a defensive stance up, you'd gain a temp stoneskin effect if you get hit with an attack (similar to afflatus solace). Or, perhaps if you're hit by a melee attack your evasion is temporarily raised until you evade an attack. How about an offensive stance that gives a temporary regain as long as you keep hitting the mob? Maybe you need to hit the mob 5 times in a row in order to get the temp. regain effect? There are many possibilities.

[hollowsgrief]

DNC is not ment to be a "main healer" at all, they are a "front line backup healer" among many other things; whm is the only job that was ment to be a "main healer" of any sorts (all others are backup healers). A raise dance would be...interesting however, but not likely to happen.

[Yundala]

I don't think DNC needs another dance category. What they could do is make it while under haste samba you also get a regain, drain samba you get Regen and under aspir samba you get refresh just while you are attacking.

Its just an idea since dnc already has alot of abilities, all it could take is a couple small adjustments like that could make the DNC job look more desirable.

[Glamdring]

I COULD see a full parry mode dance, with a Riposte possibility (think counter). This is not incompatible with dancer's role as evidenced by our Closed Stance merits. On the other hand, I could just /mnk...

[Frost]

If you're really needing to scratch that itch, just sub whm. I am not bashing you or anything, it's actually a pretty decent combo for battlefield support. My main duo partner, before abyssea and we needed magic triggers, would sub whm to her dnc. If you got a very stable duo partner, give it a try.

But as far as natively possessing raise? I think it's a little much.

I'd be more inclined to request a "Reraise Waltz" of some sort that only lasted a short while(the effect before death, not after). Something like the bard reraise song, where you can see the fight going south, and you just pop that off at the last second, it's instant, and it saves you the headache of being raised.

[Ambrina]

Raise Jig would be awesome. :)

[Bigboy]

If you're really needing to scratch that itch, just sub whm. I am not bashing you or anything, it's actually a pretty decent combo for battlefield support. My main duo partner, before abyssea and we needed magic triggers, would sub whm to her dnc. If you got a very stable duo partner, give it a try.

But as far as natively possessing raise? I think it's a little much.

I'd be more inclined to request a "Reraise Waltz" of some sort that only lasted a short while(the effect before death, not after). Something like the bard reraise song, where you can see the fight going south, and you just pop that off at the last second, it's instant, and it saves you the headache of being raised.

I concur, I think a "Last Dance" which you can toss down at the last second, and gives you reraise for 10-30 seconds would create an interresting dynamic. Give it a 20 minute recast cooldown.

[Onii]

I've wanted a Raise for DNC for a while now.

"Pheonix Waltz" would be an awesome name.

150%TP Would be fine for me to raise

Pheonix Waltz, I like the sound of that.

[Rionaheart]

It sounds nice as many Dnc have wanted it for a while but don't forget lv 99 cap we also get a new form of merit system so maybe a good idea if it was in there some were same as some form of dispel and also some form of resist amnisia would be nice to have.

[Panthera]

A lack of a Raise dance has always frustrated me as a leader. Once a Dancer has built up TP, he is able to keep an entire (sometimes an entire alliance) alive single-handedly. Getting both a White Mage and a Dancer is just plain redundant, when one only has so many party slots to work with. With only 6 slots, one cannot have a white mage in the party when their only vital function is to raise. What good is a light DD that can Cure, but cannot Raise?

As for Dispel, I support it as well. It just "feels like" this is something Dancer should be able to do.

[Demonicpagan]

I would love to see both a dispel and raise/reraise ability added to DNC. DNC is my main DD job and SCH my main mage job. I feel worthless when I can't assist in raises when there maybe at the time only a couple ppl in an alliance able to raise. Yeah, Apoc is nice in abyssea, one I'd love to have, but more often than not not many people have that atma yet in abyssea. Now in dynamis areas, it'd be helpful there as well.

[Mageoholic]

Just imagine how long it would lock out our Waltz timers if it became a Waltz.....(not that I wouldn't want but jeez the time lock would not be worth using it ever in continuous combat).

[Demonicpagan]

Yeah, if they do give us Raise, it definitely would need to fall under a different dance category or they need to unshare the waltz timers.

[Elidani]

As a level 90 dancer, I've often thought it would be awesome to have a raise dance of some sort. This originally came up during a time when it was hard to find whms, because everyone got tired of playing whm all the time. The initial idea I had was they should call it something like Corpse Waltz. However, that was quite some time ago and now I just don't see a need for us to have a raise. I would like a new set of abilities. Another player suggested a new tier of dances and asked for suggestions on names. Here is my idea: Mambos

> Tactical Mambo: All PT members in aoe range get regain effect. (nothing major somewhere 1-5/tick is fine)
> Hypnotic Mambo: Target Monster receives amnesia/addle effect

These are just a couple of examples, but they make a lot of sense for us both in party/solo situations. More could easily be added to the list.

[Wesa]

I would like a new set of abilities. Another player suggested a new tier of dances and asked for suggestions on names. Here is my idea: Mambos

> Tactical Mambo: All PT members in aoe range get regain effect. (nothing major somewhere 1-5/tick is fine)
> Hypnotic Mambo: Target Monster receives amnesia/addle effect

These are just a couple of examples, but they make a lot of sense for us both in party/solo situations. More could easily be added to the list.

Interesting thought, but I suspect something other than Mambo would be wise to avoid collision with BRD namespace. Perhaps I could interest you in a tango? Or would that take two?...

[Byrth]

I stuck the JP DNC forums into autotranslate today for fun. They're a fan of the Hula, and ask for many of the same things that we have (Dispel Flourish, Raise Dance).

[Asymptotic]

Actually, what you're seeing translated as "hula" (フラ - fura) is actually short for フラリッシュ (furarisshu - flourishes). So A.フラ is Animated Flourish, C.フラ is Climactic Flourish.

There are definitely cries for dispel/raise, and a lot of complaints about the shared recast timers - specifically with healing waltz.

There's an interesting post suggesting that saber dance instead INCREASE the TP cost of waltzes, instead of restricting the ability completely, the increase in cost also would possibly decay with the double attack.

The most interesting suggestion there is to have an ability to expend a finishing move to reduce the TP cost and recast of the next waltz.

[Asymptotic]

Actually, I was skimming earlier, upon further inspection the TP reduction / recast was simply an always active job trait that increased in potency every 15 levels after level 30. Sorry, it's been a while since I've had to use my Japanese regularly and I was skimming over it fast, and didn't double check, I just summarized what I thought I saw :D

Wherever the idea for an ability to reduce the recast/cost of the next dance in exchange for a finishing move came from, I still like it >_>

[Byrth]

I like the idea of just increasing Waltz TP cost with Saber Dance up. It would have to be a substantial increase (like 2x), but it would remove many complains that people have with the job trait for soloing and fits with the "manifesto."

[Elidani]

Interesting thought, but I suspect something other than Mambo would be wise to avoid collision with BRD namespace. Perhaps I could interest you in a tango? Or would that take two?...

That is a good point. While it may take two to tango I think we have enough DNCs on every Vana'diel server to cover it. Frankly if they give us Dispel/Raise/Amnesia/Addle or anything of that sort they could call it mud splash and I would still use it, gladly break out those lovely pinky pom-poms and shake my taru booty.

[LadyVaJedi]

That is a great idea to have a raise dance and a dispell. I would even love to have as a jig a reraise jig.

[Nosboh]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I have not read the whole post. What if they added a new set of waltz to our 2hr ability. Waltz get knocked down to ~6 seconds each during 2hr I think? Might be a way to add it?

[Annahya]

Hey all,

Just for fun, I figured I would post some Raise ideas for Dancer.

Dance of the Dead
(Dança Dos Mortos, Danse Des Morts, Fusce mortuorum, whatever cool sounding phrase one can find in various languages...)
Job Ability: Tango > Dance of the Dead
Effect: Raises all KO'd players in area of effect; area increased with TP consumed (perhaps 10 yalms for 100TP, 15 yalms for 150TP and 20 yalms for 200TP).
Recast Timer: 20 Minutes

As a game balance issue, as well as to be in line with the current trend of abilities working only under the effect of the 2-hour ability, perhaps it would require Trance to function (automatically consuming it like summoning Odin).

Or, if that is not to your liking, how about:

Reraise Samba
Job Ability: Samba > Reraise Samba
Effect: Attacks inflict Reraise Daze on opponent. Party members attacking an opponent with Reraise Daze will be granted an extremely short duration Reraise effect (perhaps 5 seconds, refreshed by each successful strike).

This way, Dancers would get some ability to raise, without taking away from the more traditional healers - and Dancers would be able to protect "proc monkeys" who are running in just to WS on an NM, only to get caught in some kind of AoE.

I am just throwing these out there for discussion - what do you all think?
Also, credit must go to Ashantha of Bismarck for the Reraise Samba suggestion, it is not my own.

[Asymptotic]

The lore of Dancers seems to dismiss a "Raise dance" existing in the Dancer Job's "Kriegstanz" school of dance. Necromancy was used to raise the undead and "Kriegstanz" was able to counteract it. If "Kriegstanz" dancers HAD a "Raise Dance", they would most likely have used it during the war.

An ability from that lore that WOULD fit Dancer is something that causes extreme damage to the undead.
Also, a "Dispel" ability would fit according to that lore too.

We could potentially get "Totentanz" as a method of raising dead party members as "pets" for a short time :p I kid... or do I? :)

(The lore can be found here: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dancers,_Maidens_of_the_Battlefield )

I really miss their lore updates.

[deces]

Just call it a Lap Dance.

[Mercer]

That would be amazing -.- Good idea