ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

[Niyariko]

I wanna dual wield two puppets!

I had that suggested long ago, but everyone said is overpower, but think of it this way, if you allow to dual wield puppet, master looses the ability to engage the fight with h2h... then its actually not that overpower. Have an ability called puppet show, let 2 puppet attack/skillchain and Magic Burst. XD

[Pyrobunny]

and SE
what the hell does Tactical processor do?

[Seha]

and SE
what the hell does Tactical processor do?
Ehnances ws damage for nearby SAMs.

[Karbuncle]

We've been asking forever >____________> All tests turn up negative!

[Kojo]

and SE
what the hell does Tactical processor do?

It's a black box component, leave it in long enough and in times of crisis, your automaton's power will skyrocket, and it's eyes will turn from red to blue..... Wait, wrong game.

Event Skipped.

[Lushipur]

actually maneuvers does influence the type of elemental magic the pet may cast, I found out about this 100% when I was fighting Weak to Wind NM I dont recall it's name, the BLM pet defaulted on casting Aero V, I added 1 Ice Maneuver and still Cast Aero V, then I used 2 Ice Maneuvers and the pet switched to casting Blizzard V, still I'm unsure if this "control" only works against monsters with elemental weakness or any monsters...

this actually may turn into a serious issue once we get Thunder V, since thunder > Ice the pet will default to casting Thunder but with "ice" attachments we will be forced to use Ice Maneuvers thus forcing the pet to use Ice V instead of Thunder V..the only reason this wasn't obvious or an issue before, its because by design it was only going to affect Thunder elemental (Thunder IV specially), but in both capped level (the current one and at 75) BLM pet never had access to the next Thunder Tier magic for a long period time to make this issue apparent to players (the first cap increase we completely skipped thunder 4 to Stone V) I think we were lucky..

its probably cause more ice man. give more mac (tranquillizer?) and so the ice spell was less to be resisted.
its the same things if your auto is not casting and suddenly you put another ice and it start to cast.

[Camate]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

When using the Tactical Processor the frequency of these checks is increased and allows the automaton to respond to variations in its environment quicker and more precisely.

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!

[Byrth]

I don't get it. For some reason I assumed that was what the AI did already. Is that not correct?

[Tarumage]

Yay! We finally know what it does!

[Vagrua]

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The Tactical Processor periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

Does this mean that if I have an ice maneuver up along with a light maneuver and it performs this check that it would prioritize cures over status element removed?

[Kojo]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The Tactical Processor periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!

Aww, you beat me to it! That's exactly what I was gonna say it did. >.> :D

[Soundwave]

The machines are taking over.

[Camate]

Sorry everyone, made a small edit to the text! Hope that cleared up confusion and apologies about the mistake.

[Kari]

...the person who made automatons is derp.
Shouldn't something like this be there by default...?

[Selzak]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

When using the Tactical Processor the frequency of these checks is increased and allows the automaton to respond to variations in its environment quicker and more precisely.

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!
Level 1 PUP here, but I just felt like I needed to chime in and say that this type of post (and on a personal note, your overall involvement with the community) is very appreciated by all of us. Thanks for the info!

[Byrth]

Sorry everyone, made a small edit to the text! Hope that cleared up confusion and apologies about the mistake.

Thank you, that's much clearer. I have a related question!

Does Kenkonken (Puppetmaster Mythic Weapon) eliminate Overload gain from these "checks" or just increase overload decay rate?

[Shinron-PUP]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

When using the Tactical Processor the frequency of these checks is increased and allows the automaton to respond to variations in its environment quicker and more precisely.

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!

All though this sounds like a decent attachment by the way you're putting it, it still feels as if it's not going to have that much of a dramatic effect incomparison to if we were not to have it on. My pet sometimes waits to execute and weaponskill around 150~200% instead of exactly when he has 100% tp, as I would want, so if this attachment only makes him occasionally scan the situation and sometimes react on time, I don't see that being any different than how it works now. With that said, I would hope that if the attachment isn't indefinitely improving the "humanistic reaction" that we puppetmasters want so much for our automatons (Meaning immediate weapon skills, cures, and any other thing that would prolong the survivability of the automaton and the puppetmaster), that you guys would at the least fix this attachment and make it's benefit meet the status quo.

[PBlackII]

Camate, I don't wish to prod for too much information, but is the function of the automaton checking various conditions to perform actions also a difference among the various animators?

[Shinron-PUP]

Thank you, that's much clearer. I have a related question!

Does Kenkonken (Puppetmaster Mythic Weapon) eliminate Overload gain from these "checks" or just increase overload decay rate?

Kenkonken only speeds up overload decay rate and reduces the amount of overload gained when using a manuever... It doesn't completely eliminate it.

[Karbuncle]

so if this attachment only makes him occasionally scan the situation and sometimes react on time, I don't see that being any different than how it works now

Sounds to me like it makes him scan situations more often and react better as a result. So how is it different? it does it more often.

I'm not sure what everyone was expecting (What with a lot of tests already done on it and negative), but this is about exactly what i had anticipated, something that is mostly unnoticeable. Which is why its been a mystery so long.

[Shinron-PUP]

If the attachment is doing something that's "unnoticiable" as you said, then it doesn't have any use. My point of my post wasn't to necessarily dock the attachment or still question what it's doing. I'm mainly trying to highlight the fact that if it's useless, then fix the attachment so it does something more than take up another slot. As Camate said, "Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!" And my response is morely on the Anti-Climatic side lol.

[Shinron-PUP]

Camate, granted you're being so kind to review and look over all action in which goes on inside this thread so you can furthermore answer the mysteries that all puppetmasters crave to be answered, would you be so kind to also answer these questions.

Are there any intentions to improve the completely lacking "Martial Arts" as we get closer to 99 for Puppetmaster or innovate some other techniques to make it so that we can better our quickness of our attacks? As of currently the only way to reach natural monk Martial Arts is through Kenkonkens which is extremely difficult to get. I understand that you do not intend for the job to be like monk, but I would hope that you would at least make it so that we're not lacking in damage incomparison to other jobs on the battefield.

As every job seemingly has some form of method to protect itself like a monk's Counterstance, Black Mage's Mana wall, Ninja's Utsusemi, White mage's Cure's and Stoneskin/Blink, and etc. Are there any plans to implement and mechanism in which allows for the puppetmaster to increase the survivability of the master and quite possibly even the automaton? As a way to hopefully stimulate an idea for the team working for Puppetmaster, Quite possibly a job ability kind of like Mana wall but reverses the damage taken from yourself to your pet. Kind of where when a Black mage is attacked, its damage is converted to its MP... How about having the damage convert to our pet's hp or vice versa. This would allow there to be a good supplement for the fact that Puppetmasters are seemingly squishy in most situations and make it so pets like Ranger or black mage pet don't necesarily take a beating from times where they may snag some hate.

Thirdly, Do you plan to create any new Automatons, not necessarily now, but for the upcoming level 99 cap? We had usually gotten a new automaton every 10 levels up until 50, so I would hope we'd have at least one "Final" pet for 99 to really make the title "Puppetmaster" true.

[PBlackII]

Honestly, the last role that we really don't have any influence whatsoever in is the enhancer/support role. I know it's old and tired, but a brd or cor like frame would probably fill that niche—though I would like something more unique like I don't know, a relatively weak automaton that reflects its attachments/maneuvers on other members of a party.

[Psion]

What we need is a puppetmaster frame: an automaton that summons an automaton to fight by its side, and uses hand to hand attacks!






...what? :P

[PBlackII]

A puppetmaster within a puppetmaster?!

[Cyranda]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

I'm glad to finally know what the Tactical Processor does. Thank you for getting that info.

As far as its effect, I'm not sure it seems terribly useful. The white mage puppet seems to cure as soon as or shortly after its spell timer comes up, and if the Tactical Processor doesn't speed up the actual spell timer, its value then seems pretty small or non-existant. Back when I was using it to try to figure out what it did (which is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin), it didn't seem to appreciably speed up the rate at which the puppet noticed things, either; the Valoredge automaton's shield bash, for example, regularly goes off long after a monster has completed a weapon skill/action, and the tactical processor doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on the rate at which it will actually bash in time to stun an action*. Likewise, the speed at which it uses TP after it reaches 100% doesn't seem to change noticeably with the processor attached.

Perhaps the effect is just too small. Now that we know the way it works, is there any chance you could ask if its effect could be increased (or if it could be changed) such that the it is more noticeable or better? It is certainly noticeable how much the overload rate increases when you use it, but the tradeoff for that increased overload doesn't seem to be even close to worth it.

*As an aside, why does the Valoredge try to Shield Bash ranged attacks? Most (if not all) monsters that use ranged attacks seem to use them instantly; as soon as the animation starts, the attack has completed, and stunning/bashing doesn't really make any sense. (I could be wrong about this, but it certainly seems as though Shield Bash never halts a ranged attack, even if it uses Shield Bash as soon as a monster starts using a ranged attack).

[Seha]

That's all it does? Meh.

[Niyariko]

If Tactical Processor really works like that, is not doing a good enough job. Any attachment shouldn't require an explanation from the developers at all, IMO if it does, it fails on its existence already. Please keep that in mind when making future attachments. :p

[Xellith]

now FIX the BROKEN A.I....

ready?...
3
2
1
go!

[Esvedium]

A puppetmaster within a puppetmaster?!

Mind blown.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljx8wa9I6j1qarc0k.gif

[TimeMage]

As every job seemingly has some form of method to protect itself like a monk's Counterstance, Black Mage's Mana wall, Ninja's Utsusemi, White mage's Cure's and Stoneskin/Blink, and etc. Are there any plans to implement and mechanism in which allows for the puppetmaster to increase the survivability of the master and quite possibly even the automaton? As a way to hopefully stimulate an idea for the team working for Puppetmaster, Quite possibly a job ability kind of like Mana wall but reverses the damage taken from yourself to your pet. Kind of where when a Black mage is attacked, its damage is converted to its MP... How about having the damage convert to our pet's hp or vice versa. This would allow there to be a good supplement for the fact that Puppetmasters are seemingly squishy in most situations and make it so pets like Ranger or black mage pet don't necesarily take a beating from times where they may snag some hate.

So... you're basically asking about Role Reversal and Ventriloquy, the two merit JA we already have? Because Ventriloquy exchanges your enmity with your auto's, effectively making it take your hits or vice versa, and Role reversal swaps your HP, getting a ghetto Cure V for you or your auto in a moment of need.


P.D.: So, that's what Tactical Processor does? No wonder we didn't know, the effect is barely noticeable, if at all, specially compared to the heavy penalty on overload rate it gives.

[chubrocka]

I just want my AUTO to heal me like a whm would or should.

[Niyariko]

So... you're basically asking about Role Reversal and Ventriloquy, the two merit JA we already have? Because Ventriloquy exchanges your enmity with your auto's, effectively making it take your hits or vice versa, and Role reversal swaps your HP, getting a ghetto Cure V for you or your auto in a moment of need....

I think is more like Cover+mana wall for the automaton and vice versa. When you or your auto gets hit, the pain directly transfer to the master or pet but not the hate.

I think this can be a good addition to pup.

[Mightyg]

So this is basically an A.I. boost. Why isn't this just part of the automaton? And why does such a subtle effect need additional overload to balance it?

[Karbuncle]

They did say they were looking into reworking the negatives from those attachments in the previous questionnaire.

[xbobx]

So this is basically an A.I. boost. Why isn't this just part of the automaton? And why does such a subtle effect need additional overload to balance it?

So basically this makes the automation stupider.

I know stupider is not a real word...

[Kayn]

well, back to square one, i hope when the "rework" actually happens this attachment effect becomes something else entirely or an actually usefull one.

[Kristal]

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

I have doubts about the HP bit, since the automaton doesn't wait to cast. For example, it'll cast silence and slow back-to-back on a wind elemental until it lands, unless the master is hit by Silence or received enough damage to trigger a cure threshold. Improved reaction time will do nothing there, since it has to wait for the cast timer. (Although that might change if there is any truth to the rumor that casting timers will be divided among more categories instead of a single universal timer.)
I can see how it helps with Shield Bash stunning a spell or JA though, since the automaton will indeed wait there and usually uses it too late. A quicker response could help there. It also fits snugly in the 2 ice capacity the Valoredge frame has.

[Tarage]

This will be the last place I post this. I apologize that this is Summoner centric, but I believe these concepts can be applied to PUP, as well as BST and DRG. Especially the third.

Let me state again the three fixes I would like to see implemented in summoner pet AI and why I feel they are important.

1. Avatars should not auto-attack sleeping, bound, or petrified mobs. Yes, I know this is a modification on what I first said, but it's the same concept. In hectic situations it is very hard to keep off the top of the hate list, and sometimes we need to be able to have our avatars not attack things. Please do not get rid of auto-attack all together, just fix it so that it doesn't happen on sleeping, bound, and petrified mobs.

2. Please extend the radius for being able to use the assault command. No, I do not mean being able to assault from further distances away from mobs, I mean that if my avatar is 30 yalms away from me, and I tell it to attack something, I want it to attack something, not ignore my command and come to me. Having your avatar not attack a mob and at the same time having the cooldown timer not reset is very annoying and can be deadly.

3. We were very grateful when you fixed the issue where if a mob was too far away from a bloodpact, the bloodpact timer was reset. Please apply this same fix to when a mob dies before a bloodpact goes off. It's very annoying to do an attack, or even worse a ward, and have the mob die and the avatar just stand there as if nothing happened, still stuck in the 'preparing' animation. This applies to puppets, wyvern, and beastmaster pets.

I know there has been a lot of confusion surrounding the debate of these three issues, specifically the first, but there is a clear consensus that people would like this fixed. Please look into it.

And my fellow forum posters, if you like these ideas, please show your support for them. Or, if you think they can be improved, please offer improvements. Thank you.

[Seha]

Keep smn things in smn threads. No one cares about smn in pup thread.
Thank you.

[Mizuharu]

Hi, sorry to jump in like this Camate, but I noticed in the RDM thread that someone had asked about giving RDM access to weapon skills it couldn't normally use unless it were to be subbing the proper job, and you had mentioned the Dev team said they were revamping the weapon skills. I was wondering if there was even a sliver of chance that PUP would be getting Asuran Fists also?

And sorry to everyone for posting here but this is a PUP forum and I didn't want to follow the example of so many other users on these forums by posting my question where Camate/an Admin had just made a post. Figured if I at least did it in the PUP discussion part, it'd be okay with others.

[Lushipur]

we dont need asuran...
ask to fix nyzul so pup can get stringing pummel...

[Mizuharu]

we dont need asuran...
ask to fix nyzul so pup can get stringing pummel...

I'm not saying we "need" it; but we all know RDM is doomed to never be a melee job except in something like Campaign. Also, Nyzul Isle isn't that hard to three man. :x

[Seha]

Well, Asuran wouldn't be bad to have, if only just for proc sake. Obviously no one would use it over Stringing Pummel <_<

[Malamasala]

Prepare to have your minds blown as we have…yes…information about what the Tactical Processor does!

This attachment is a bit different than the standard attachment that, for example, gives XX% increase in attack, defense, etc. The automaton periodically checks the information around the automaton and decides its next move (if HP took a hit, it will cure, if TP has been saved up, it will perform a WS, etc.).

When using the Tactical Processor the frequency of these checks is increased and allows the automaton to respond to variations in its environment quicker and more precisely.

However, every time it performs a check, the overload value increases, so as the frequency of checks increases it will increase the possibility of an overload.

Epic sauce? Anti-climatic? Let us know!

Uhm, how does it help that it checks for low HP more often when the "global" recast on spells is like 20-25 seconds somewhere?

It sounds to me like someone looked at a NM, and thought "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if puppets also could quickly react to hate changes and TP feeding?" except you rarely have 18 monsters hit the puppet, or have monsters pull hate from the puppet.

The whole thing feels like some kind of gigantic blunder. Like 20 dollars back on recycling bottles... except it means they cost 20 dollars more to buy also.

[Miera]

Is there any way we can get our WHM Automaton to Cast Curaga spells? I think this would help out a lot in situations where many members n a party have lost a lot of health.

What about Haste? Those are my only spell problems. Well, Haste Curagas and protects but the Enhancing Magic spells maybe a bit of a problem since it would probably be Hasting/Protect/Shell all members before It would get to the Actual Curing..

[Camate]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.


Cooldown* Lv95
Reduces the overload on automatons.

Adding Subtle Blow job trait to automatons.

While we are adding Subtle blow in the form of a job trait, in the future we will also be adding attachments that add this as well.

Also, I got the feeling there were some misunderstandings in regards to the feedback given previously, so I’d like to follow up on that.

We feel that it is of extremely high importance to adjust automaton attachments. We received a lot of feedback saying “Revamp all attachments.” This is pretty much going to take place.

However, just adjusting/adding attachments doesn’t mean that it will cover everything. We’d appreciate it if you took this as us putting all of our focus on first adjusting the current attachments and then we will be looking into other aspects as well.

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)

[Dfoley]

No offense Camate, but when you say based on feedback...

Who was actually asking for more overload reduction on pupettmasters. I have never once seen that nor known any pup to ask for that.

[Karbuncle]

I think Everything they get is translated from JP forums first, So its likely the JP were asking for it.

Edit: Thats not to say they only take job advice from JP, don't be silly!

[Vagrua]

I still haven't really seen much of a reply to the OP.

Maybe it would be better to go more into depth next time you post here about what the Devs have in mind about attachment adjustments and how they would answer our cries for changes we want made?

I'm not complaining about the overload reduction ability or subtle blow traits. They're welcomed, but aren't the main issues we see with the automaton.

[Mizuharu]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.


Cool down* Lv95
Reduces the overload on automatons.

Adding Subtle Blow job trait to automatons.

While we are adding Subtle blow in the form of a job trait, in the future we will also be adding attachments that add this as well.

Also, I got the feeling there were some misunderstandings in regards to the feedback given previously, so I’d like to follow up on that.

We feel that it is of extremely high importance to adjust automaton attachments. We received a lot of feedback saying “Revamp all attachments.” This is pretty much going to take place.

However, just adjusting/adding attachments doesn’t mean that it will cover everything. We’d appreciate it if you took this as us putting all of our focus on first adjusting the current attachments and then we will be looking into other aspects as well.

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)

Asuran Fists? :< :< :<

Also with Empy Body + AF gloves + The lvl5 neck piece, overload has been reduced greatly. Really don't -need- that job trait but thanks for it.

[Alkar]

Can you guys possibly fix the Ashu Talif quests that drop attachments? Please?
Or at least add another way to get them (Ob, casket, ENM)/let us enter solo.
I'm aware the attachments are all powerful but no one really cares about those quests except for PUPs and it's always hard to even get people in there.

[Xellith]

WHERE IS THE AI FIX??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Miera]

Honestly, I hardly ever overload.. However my Automaton killing me every chance she gets is what's hurtng me.

I usually make sure to keep an eraser on and Always a Light Manny up but half the tme she'd stll would rather cure a status effect than cure me and by that time had already bit the dust.

If you cannot fix the Automaton to Cast more frequently instead of every 20 secs can we please have a Mana Booster II?

And yeah, AI fix Can I have it?

[Darkvalkyr]

I'm glad we're getting subtle blow. Cooldown isn't anything I'd really want but eh, it lets me go wild with maneuvers a bit.

Maybe if they buff attachments to scale with level...even so there's so many attachments, 16 spaces and such low elemental affinity is really cramping the automaton's ability.

[Cyranda]

Camate, given that there is a list of new spells being added and old spells being added to new jobs in another thread, could you find out and present the spell data for when (skill/level) automatons (of all types) will be gaining access to new spells and what they are?

Also, since mage frames don't benefit much from Overdrive compared to other frames, perhaps adding automaton-specific spells during Overdrive might be interesting.

[Glamdring]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.


Cooldown* Lv95
Reduces the overload on automatons.

Adding Subtle Blow job trait to automatons.

While we are adding Subtle blow in the form of a job trait, in the future we will also be adding attachments that add this as well.

Also, I got the feeling there were some misunderstandings in regards to the feedback given previously, so I’d like to follow up on that.

We feel that it is of extremely high importance to adjust automaton attachments. We received a lot of feedback saying “Revamp all attachments.” This is pretty much going to take place.

However, just adjusting/adding attachments doesn’t mean that it will cover everything. We’d appreciate it if you took this as us putting all of our focus on first adjusting the current attachments and then we will be looking into other aspects as well.

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)

The stuff you are doing, none of it is bad per se so I'll let it slide. You still haven't addressed one of my biggest beefs: spell gain post level 72 on stormwalker head and, to a much lesser extent past level 50 on harley.

I know most pups just retire harley once they have all of the other pups, but that might just be because harley has nothing to distinguish it past 50. The same holds true for Stormwalker head. Given the stupidity of the whm pup prioritizing status removal before curing low HP, stormwalker is generally the superior soloing mage pup, because it will actually attempt to keep you alive in spite of the blindness status the skeleton hit you with, the whm won't. But with spell growth stopped at level 72 you end up deciding that you are better off using the whm pup, hoping that it will get off all your status ailments and then get off its highest cure before you die, before your oponent decides to hit you with another status ailment (which is-in my opinion-too damn risky). Honestly, the only way I will solo with the soulsoother head is if I /dnc or have my NPC out on soothing healer, so I can remove the status ailment myself, forcing my whm pup to address my HP concerns.

PLEASE fix this, or come up with some LEGITIMATE reason for it not to happen. It can't be a balance issue; Spiritreaver is always gonna nuke harder, Soulsoother is always gonna cure better, and is the only head that MIGHT cure another party member.

[Niyariko]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update...


If SE really update based on player's feed back, the AI would be fixed long ago. :p

These update isn't getting to the roots of the problem, if the core isn't fixed, theres really no point doing anything else for pup, might as well just leave pup at lv90 cap. SE, shouldn't waste time on pup if they are not going to fix the AI problem. Just spend your dev times that might better benefit other jobs instead.

[Theytak]

What people aren't realizing is that the devs seem to have misunderstood everyone complaining about maneuvers' duration and recast as "fix overload". Best Case Scenario, Cooldown increases the duration and/or reduces the delay of maneuvers while active. Otherwise good job guys. The subtle blow though, I'm not sure about, since none of us have legitimately complained about puppet's not having subtle blow aside from their TP generation being a slight inconvenience at times, against things that don't already have stupid amounts of regain (read, almost nothing at this point).

Good job, pups. :D

/endsarcasm

[Mizuharu]

Now that I think about it, Cooldown could be used right after activate since that tends to be when Overload tends to be the highest. Depending on recast, this could be a welcomed JA...

[Glamdring]

Now that I think about it, Cooldown could be used right after activate since that tends to be when Overload tends to be the highest. Depending on recast, this could be a welcomed JA...

way to think positive, grats!

there's also the fact than not everyone has AF3+2 or Kenkonen for its overload resist and I'll be damnned if I'm still gonna haul around my AF1 gear. Pup is my 5th 90, and the other 4 all have priority over it. In addition, I'm leveling rng as we speak. with gear for 6 jobs (including the minimal gear swapping I do), pops, certain craft mats, food, ammos, nin tools and the like being able to satisfy something WITHOUT having to use a gear swap is a welcome change.

Oh, and 50 gil says they have no intention of EVER addressing my stormwalker/harley spellcap question... prolly because they don't have an answer that would satisfy. Their answer is "because we said so", a weak phrase used by parents when they are out-argued by their 5 year old. I would hope they can do better, but apparently not.

[Dfoley]

Glamdrig seriously? IF you aren't hauling around at least the AF1 gloves, then you are being super lazy and making all pups look bad cause you cant be inconvenienced to play a job correctly.

I can understand not having +2 body (and no one has kenkonken), but you should bar minimum have +1 body, af1 gloves.

I can write off not having a maneuver set (aka dex gear for wind maneuvers) since its really not needed ever anymore, and I can write off not using a buffons collar, but not using af1 gloves in a macro for maneuvers is just flat out lazy... Then asking for an ability to reduce overload because your to lazy to grab a single piece of gear is just terrible.

[Glamdring]

I still carry the collar, +1 in fact, but not the gloves. There simply isn't anything that excellent to put in the neck slot. I just hot swap it with the cirque necklace. I use my AF3 +1 gloves, and I'm happy with those until I can +2 them. My AF1 is entirely on the armor storer NPC. Personnally, I'm annoyed to be using my ASA, MKT, ASA stuff and swapping with relic depending whether I have mage or physical autos out, not to mention 2 sets of Taipan Fangs +2.

Lemme tell you, it makes for 1 scary looking pup... I'm also looking for my Marotte claws to use outside aby instead of the fangs, since regen/refresh can't hurt.

[Horadrim]

Glamdrig seriously? IF you aren't hauling around at least the AF1 gloves, then you are being super lazy and making all pups look bad cause you cant be inconvenienced to play a job correctly.

I can understand not having +2 body (and no one has kenkonken), but you should bar minimum have +1 body, af1 gloves.

I can write off not having a maneuver set (aka dex gear for wind maneuvers) since its really not needed ever anymore, and I can write off not using a buffons collar, but not using af1 gloves in a macro for maneuvers is just flat out lazy... Then asking for an ability to reduce overload because your to lazy to grab a single piece of gear is just terrible.

Pretty much this...

I don't lug around my AF gloves, purely because I don't have the space for the rest of my AF. (my storage, sack, satchel, and safe are all 95~100%)... but I have this ability known as -know how- that allows me to know when I'm likely to overload and avoid doing it.

In Abyssea, the only time you can ever expect to overload is immediately after activation, and after a few minutes its almost impossible to overload unless you're just constantly spamming maneuvers over the 3 you have active. Even outside of Abyssea its not impossible or even that difficult to avoid overloading without additional gear...

The cooldown ability is almost pointless for most of us at this stage. Anyone who;s invested the work into leveling PUP doesn't need it, its a level 30 ability at best that's being added like its a gift to high level players, and that's just ridiculous.

Unless they are secretly planning to give us a mini-version of Overdrive that locks your maneuvers for you for the price of perpetually increasing burden or something, and the cooldown ability becomes necessary to reduce it so you don't auto-overload, then I don't see the point and I'm extremely disinterested.

Its one thing to "think positive" its another to have already been thrown under the bus and to act like someone's doing you a favor by not spitting in your face. As of yet, SE hasn't really done anything to help PUP.

[Telford]

You can use the Porter Moogle (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Porter_Moogle) to store non-complete sets of AF. So if you can spare two inventory spaces you can use AF1 gloves (one space for the storage slip and one for the gloves).

[TimeMage]

Please please please please Everyone... Bufoon's Collar and AF1 gloves macroed for every maneuver, and AF3+1/+2 if you can. The lolPUP mentality is a combination of several factors, but one of the most important ones is precisely PUPs that either don't know or worse, don't care, and overload because of improper or non-existant macros for maneuvers.

If you like the job, and don't want to be called "lolPUP", "gimp" or "joke job" PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, use if only just that macro.

[Malamasala]

I don't think it has anything to do with that. Like you can play COR and be worthless at it, and you'll still be rated better than a PUP. Just because COR = my WAR deals more damage. PUP = does nothing for WAR.

[Psion]

Why in the world would anyone NOT use AF1 gloves, even with space issues? They give you a boost to your automaton's stats on top of reducing overload when you use a maneuver. If you're gonna pick one, go for the AF. And using the "I don't have space for the entire set of AF just to use AF gloves is ridiculous. There's a perfectly good porter moogle willing to hold individual pieces of AF, weapons included, for the one time low low cost of 1000 gil for a storage slip 4. No fuss, and you can put all those useless AF pieces from your various jobs for 1 slot space (And I don't think you can even throw away the slip if it's got something stored either, so that fear is gone too.)

The porter moogle is a godsend for space issues, so use it!

Also, this thread has hit over 300 replies and 20,000 views. I feel special now for making such a popular thread. :X

[Glamdring]

what can we say man, there's alot of peeved pups out there... the post just gives us a chance to voice it, in a track that is actually getting responses. It could also be that now players are seeing that the "lol" has been removed from pup (and honestly never really deserved to be there in the 1st place, except in fashion choice) that more players are leveling it, experiencing the probs, and thus griping, legitimately.

You all know my beef with the spell caps, EVERYONE has a beef with the whm AI, even if some argue that they meant it to be stupid, the overload thing, well now that they've announced that cooldown will actually remove any overload you get might be seen as less useless (if you've gotten it to "very rare" "non-existent" seems like an improvement, and it doesn't eat gear/attachments). Ok, the drop rate of pup attachments from GoV boxes could use some tweaking, seems the best way to guarantee never getting one is to GoV on pup, but that could just as easily be the cap on caskets in an area with all the people who won't clear their chest drops.

Think the Devs still have alot of major work to do, but at least they seem to be thinking about the probs... what we need is more pups so they might make fixing it a priority; I think our numbers hurt us there.

[cloverlief]

Now that I think about it, Cooldown could be used right after activate since that tends to be when Overload tends to be the highest. Depending on recast, this could be a welcomed JA...

I am actually glad that Cooldown was added. While I rarely if ever overload I also had to stick to a pattern and restrict the speed at which I hit maneuvers.
Now I can pop on an IceMaker and go to town in places like walk of Echos.
In the process of replacing the Ice that was used by the Icemaker while water is not up, or during DAD I can immediately pop on the water (If it succeeds then great, if on the rare chance it fails then I use cooldown pop up the water and continue).

So it has actually reduced my need to balance and can instead just go to town boosting my overall damage in places like WOE. The worst part about the occasional overload there becomes this battle where you can easily overload again if you don't just sit around for a while to cool down, the move cool down just takes away the wait.

There are many other changes I would like to see and hope for the best.