DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

[Leonlionheart]

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

Idk what torcleaver's your playing with

[Zatias]

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much easier to build a set for than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.
Fixed it for you. You're welcome.

[Zeroe]

Seriously can't believe this. SE would rather talk about level 99 updates, jug pets, etc rather than telling us IS OUR JOB GETTING FIXED OR NOT?

Not even a update, nor reply to anything. The way it stands now, were gonna get the horrible SD, no drain/aspir III, no WS fix, no fast cast enhances, no real or boosted 2-hour, the list goes on and on.

But SE has time to talk about all the new things SCH is getting.
You would think after a few weeks, SE would at least say something.

[Quetzacoatl]

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

heheheheh... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIUNDYbmPps)

[Rezeak]

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

Not really (put in spoiler tag cause it's off topic







===============================================

Now to the point FFXI isn't about all about DMG and outside abyssea DRKs DMG is pretty balanced (tho i believe we should be able to exceed WARs DMG for a small period of time at a FAIR cost ofc) but it's what DRK brings outside this....

The answer is nothing outside staggers
WAR beats us spike wise w/ Sekki Ukko's
SAM is able to use meditate and other abilties to tp w/out hitting the mob (Occult acumen could of been this too but it's based on mp and DRK has a sucky mp pool and little-no mp recovery)
DRG has Angon and the ablity to shed hate if in danger.
MNK can be a very effective backup Tank.

Honestly SE i know this may be ignored but you need to add something to DRK that adds to a group all we have atm is Stun and that is covered but any mage that can sub BLM or is a BLM because it's unresistable in most cases.

Either way thats how i feel about it.

[Taint2]

SAM TP is very underestimated in those figures and the haste is off by 3 for a 5hit. Cala is also ideal with a 7hit. Masa SAM is a premier DD outside of Abyssea. Superior gear, superior JAs (overall) and superior sub options. Zanhasso was a game changer for sure.

[StingRay104]

Thank you SE for totally ignoring us and giving us all SCARLET DIARRHEA despite the fact we quite clearly mentioned how terrible of an idea it was and should be deleted if you hav eno intention of fixing it. Better yet war was complaining about not getting anything let them have this worthless ability, except if you give it to them then you would fix it cuz god forbid war every get anything gimp.

[StingRay104]

500+ posts and yet after 2weeks+ we still have not even been acknowledge as being heard about our dislike of Scarlet Diarrhea. Hell any info from the devs has been small and vague at best. Is it too hard for the devs to actually tell you something Camate or are they just getting annoyed with you and by association us? Just wondering because I hate whats goin on with the game I've been playing for so many years and the lack of news is killing the game more.

[Cljader1]

They are not interested in us atm, I was thinking of making a developer thread in the dark knight forum to hopefully open up a dialog between us and the development team or make a formal thread to ask camate what are the plan for drk on the way to lvl 99. However I do wish we can have a dialog with the SE staff members to see what plans they have for us drks and what we can look forward too, but a conversation is a two ways street and I just wish SE would communicate with us.

[Urteil]

I'm kind of shocked, but the only jobs they talk about are BST and SCH.

[Dart]

rez, you won't bet getting any kind of decent numbers with torcleaver and 6 hitting. Not even close in fact its pretty much terrible because you are forced to basically ws in the gear that you're tping in. Your fstr won't be even remotely close to cap, where fudo's main mod is str and they can stack the hell out of it.

I'm sorry man but your numbers are way off. Add in 7 hit caladbolg with a solid ws set up and a 5 hitting sam pulls farther and farther ahead.

I'll still argue with you taint about a 5 hitting ukon vs masa. I believe they're interchangable.

[Leonlionheart]

Masa SAM is a premier DD outside of Abyssea.

WAR would like to have a word with your face

[Neisan_Quetz]

Maybe pre zanhasso update. Sam looks likely to win outside barring counting retaliation, and I'm now fairly positive that won't close the gap.

[Taint2]

WAR would like to have a word with your face


"A premier" didn't say "The premier"

I'd put a good Masa SAM up against a good Ukon WAR any day of the week. I play everyday with 2 stacked Ukon90 WARs.

[Urteil]

I remember when there was hope that the things mentioned by SE in this thread might happen.

[Chriscoffey]

Keep telling yourself that because it won't happen.

[Urteil]

But, we got thunder III!

[Selzak]

Pretty sick of seeing BLU get all of the abilities that fit/should be on DRK.

[Urteil]

Like 6 stuns, and Terror moves?

Why can't DRK have stun II? Its the job that gets it first, and DNC can stun every 20s.

The part I find amazing is they won't even pop in to say "Hey shut up." Or "Hey, we do plan to do something vague!."

[Greatguardian]

Hey, shut up.




I count, right?

[SpankWustler]

Hey, I plan to do something vague!

[Frost]

This is why it pays to play other jobs. You'd realize that Dancer stuns don't land as frequently as you think they do, and Blues don't socket in ALL those stuns, and they don't land as reliably as 'stun' stun does.

When you cherry-pick minor aspects of a job and blow them up to be those jobs' defining factors without seeing them in perspective, your arguments fall flat to folks that have leveled more than one job, and have the perspective you lack. It would be like a RDM complaining that Dark Knight got tier three spells because "Dark Knights aren't Mages"... Arguments and 'points' like that just sound completely idiotic....

[Emdub]

Greetings!

Don't mind me, just moving this thread over to the Dark Knight forum!

Apologies for any inconvenience!

-=Game Master Emdub=-

[Selzak]

This is why it pays to play other jobs. You'd realize that Dancer stuns don't land as frequently as you think they do, and Blues don't socket in ALL those stuns, and they don't land as reliably as 'stun' stun does.

When you cherry-pick minor aspects of a job and blow them up to be those jobs' defining factors without seeing them in perspective, your arguments fall flat to folks that have leveled more than one job, and have the perspective you lack. It would be like a RDM complaining that Dark Knight got tier three spells because "Dark Knights aren't Mages"... Arguments and 'points' like that just sound completely idiotic....
Your argument about BLU is that it has too much shit to even use, so we shouldn't be upset when it keeps getting and we don't?

I guess you don't play BLU, DNC, and DRK together to be able to compare them in a realistic way. DRK is the worst stunner of the group (possibly tied with DNC), and BLU can keep a mob stunned for nearly the entire fight as well as having two terror spells (one definitely works, the other will too I'm sure) up its sleeve while SE has told DRKs over and over that we can't have a Terror spell because it'd be too powerful. BLU is fed so well every update that it might not even use the terror spell, but if anything that just shows the disparity between jobs. DRK would fall over on itself for such a thing.

DRKs: Hey, we're DRKs...shouldn't we be able to do X?
SE: X would be too powerful, here's Tactical Parry.
*SE gives X to BLU*
*SE gives X to BLU again*

Not just with Terror, either; DRKs have been asking for any kind of secondary Stun forever- if we got a spell like Sudden Lunge or Headbutt we'd be ecstatic and it'd be the biggest thing for DRK since the game came out, but BLU gets this kind of shit and then gets it again every update.

DRK desperately needs some unique and useful utility capabilities, and all of our (very DRK-ish) ideas get shot down and then given to BLU.

[Cljader1]

This is why it pays to play other jobs. You'd realize that Dancer stuns don't land as frequently as you think they do, and Blues don't socket in ALL those stuns, and they don't land as reliably as 'stun' stun does.

When you cherry-pick minor aspects of a job and blow them up to be those jobs' defining factors without seeing them in perspective, your arguments fall flat to folks that have leveled more than one job, and have the perspective you lack. It would be like a RDM complaining that Dark Knight got tier three spells because "Dark Knights aren't Mages"... Arguments and 'points' like that just sound completely idiotic....

Man I hate people who don't make sense, blu is the best stunner in the game if it chooses to be, Headbutt is a great stun move with both speed and damage, and that's just one of blu's effective stun moves. Furthermore, SE said directly to drk's that they have no plans of adding stun II, but they want to make sure drks are the best and most effective stunners, well how's that going to happened?

[StingRay104]

So you decide to wait for several months and 522 responses before you decide to move this thread. Why? Why wasn't this thread moved when it was created? Why is it that we get a few responses from the reps and then after a long gap we start posting on it again about our displeasure in how this game is treating us and then you decide its time to move the thread? What was the logic in this decision? Was their logic in this decision? Will we even get a response to any of this? Why can't we seem to get any acknowledgement from the devs, reps, or even Tanaka himself about what they plan to do to remedy their poor performance at game balance for many jobs including DRK? You see its completely stupid decisions like this that your company is making that lost them my money because I refuse to pay for the crap that your giving us. Also as for this thread being moved after all this time and all these responses I think someone has been quite absent on their duties and should recieve high reprimand if not out right dismissal from their post. SE, stop screwing over your paying clients, or else your gonna lose them.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I wasn't aware headbutt landed on NMs worth a damn, and it's subject to capped accuracy like a melee attack is (no matter what it will miss 5% of the time), Lunge/Frypan/Tail Slap/Whirl is the same, using Thunderbolt is once every 5 minutes and locks you out of any other unbridled spell, which includes the new terror one. Yes Blu can set all of them, but it's never practical to do so except to be a stun b*sh.

[Frost]

Your argument about BLU is that it has too much shit to even use, so we shouldn't be upset when it keeps getting and we don't?

I guess you don't play BLU, DNC, and DRK together to be able to compare them in a realistic way. DRK is the worst stunner of the group (possibly tied with DNC), and BLU can keep a mob stunned for nearly the entire fight as well as having two terror spells (one definitely works, the other will too I'm sure) up its sleeve while SE has told DRKs over and over that we can't have a Terror spell because it'd be too powerful. BLU is fed so well every update that it might not even use the terror spell, but if anything that just shows the disparity between jobs. DRK would fall over on itself for such a thing.

DRKs: Hey, we're DRKs...shouldn't we be able to do X?
SE: X would be too powerful, here's Tactical Parry.
*SE gives X to BLU*
*SE gives X to BLU again*

Not just with Terror, either; DRKs have been asking for any kind of secondary Stun forever- if we got a spell like Sudden Lunge or Headbutt we'd be ecstatic and it'd be the biggest thing for DRK since the game came out, but BLU gets this kind of shit and then gets it again every update.

DRK desperately needs some unique and useful utility capabilities, and all of our (very DRK-ish) ideas get shot down and then given to BLU.

You know what, I agree with you on this for the most part, believe it or not.
I do agree there's a massive double standard when they say "We cannot do this" then give it to Blu.

I was responding more directly to "Blus Have 6 stuns and 2 terrors", when the likelyhood of having all of that socketed is slim to none. Typically Whirl of Rage and Sudden Lunge are enough. And there's a snowballs' chance in hell most blus would bother socketing Jettatura.

However,

Head Butt Misses, or Head Butt lands for damage only more often than you'd think.
Whirl of Rage lands more reliably, yet it's AoE (noticeably slower to cast too).
Sudden Lunge Builds resist extremely fast and isn't as reliable on HNM.
Jettatura has a TWO MINUTE recast, and a high socket cost.
The "other" Terror, that isn't out yet, has a FIVE MINUTE recast.

And:

Stun always lands, unless:
A) The mob is naturally immune to stun. (In which case both Blu and Drk would suffer alike)
Or:
B) Stun resist has been built up. (In which case both Blu and Drk would suffer alike)

AND:

Blus have to be in range to stun... and lots of times that's not a good idea.

[Urteil]

You know what, I agree with you on this for the most part, believe it or not.
I do agree there's a massive double standard when they say "We cannot do this" then give it to Blu.

I was responding more directly to "Blus Have 6 stuns and 2 terrors", when the likelyhood of having all of that socketed is slim to none. Typically Whirl of Rage and Sudden Lunge are enough. And there's a snowballs' chance in hell most blus would bother socketing Jettatura.

However,

Head Butt Misses, or Head Butt lands for damage only more often than you'd think.
Whirl of Rage lands more reliably, yet it's AoE (noticeably slower to cast too).
Sudden Lunge Builds resist extremely fast and isn't as reliable on HNM.
Jettatura has a TWO MINUTE recast, and a high socket cost.
The "other" Terror, that isn't out yet, has a FIVE MINUTE recast.

And:

Stun always lands, unless:
A) The mob is naturally immune to stun. (In which case both Blu and Drk would suffer alike)
Or:
B) Stun resist has been built up. (In which case both Blu and Drk would suffer alike)

AND:

Blus have to be in range to stun... and lots of times that's not a good idea.

I'm not sure what kind of crap BLU misses stuns and DNC fails with the right macro gear for flourishes.

Sudden Lunge lasts for an obscenely long time and rotating that with headbutt is amazing equivalent to StunI/StunII, being in combat is always a good idea just have a WHM to silena/Cure you. BLU for example makes the T3 Bastok fight Melancholic Moira a big fat green joke.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Melancholic Moira is a joke on its own without a Blu...

[Urteil]

BLU now has Bloodrake which can do upwards of 13k and drains 100% of HP as damage, recast under a minute.

Absolute Terror can last upward of 20s.



Man, Stun II and Drain III are sure looking overpowered right now.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Absolute Terror was resisted by Heqet. Do you want another spell only good for fodder mobs?

[Urteil]

Yea, I'd take a terror spell that works on mobs besides NM's, most NM's are immune to nearly every enfeeble anyway.

So yes, a thousand times yes. I'll take terror I'll Dark Seal the shit out of that Terror and it would probably land in HQ situations and the JA would have some sense behind it.

BLU having Terror is retarded no matter how you slice it it simply makes zero sense.



But the job that is supposed to be according to SE in this very forum "Most affluent with Dark Magic."

Only has to show a spell that does at most 500dmg on tough monsters WITH a 5min JA with a flawed formula where Dark Magic is beginning to not matter because of drain cap.

Drain/Aspir with too long casting time and too long recast.
One good absorb-spell.

And Bio II.






Wee.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Considering it's tied to Unbridled knowledge it is severely limited as not only is it once per 5 mins on one mob, it also locks you out of every other unbridled spell for 5 minutes. I don't think it's as big of a deal as it looks like at first glance.

[Urteil]

This is why it pays to play other jobs. You'd realize that Dancer stuns don't land as frequently as you think they do, and Blues don't socket in ALL those stuns, and they don't land as reliably as 'stun' stun does.

When you cherry-pick minor aspects of a job and blow them up to be those jobs' defining factors without seeing them in perspective, your arguments fall flat to folks that have leveled more than one job, and have the perspective you lack. It would be like a RDM complaining that Dark Knight got tier three spells because "Dark Knights aren't Mages"... Arguments and 'points' like that just sound completely idiotic....

RDM has tied INT, but lower elemental skill than DRK, and lower Dark Magic Skill than DRK.

Elemental Magic: RDM C+, DRK B+
Dark Magic: RDM E, DRK A-

In all reality we should be the one getting Tier IV spells, we are more of a mage then they are and its in their god damn name >_>.

I find the above ironic, and hilarious that you didn't know that.

Pardon my lack of perspective and knowledge about the capacities of other jobs.

[SpankWustler]

BLU now has Bloodrake which can do upwards of 13k and drains 100% of HP as damage, recast under a minute.

If you don't account for the recast of the five minute job ability required to use Bloodrake.


Absolute Terror can last upward of 20s.

Assuming you're fighting something that doesn't matter, because thus far any Notorious Monsters this has been used on have resisted it. Also, it's limited to once every five minutes as well. On a shared timer with Bloodrake.

While it would be neat for Dark Knight to get a good Terror spell or such, it's important to remember that very spell Blue Mage knows has some unpleasant factor. Imagine a nearly endless buffet where the cook walks along and pees in every dish just a little. That's the world of Blue Magic.

I can only assume that's why they're fine giving stuff like Terror to Blue Mage but hold back from giving it to other jobs. The Development Bros. can technically give Blue Mages a way to inflict Terror or Doom or Severe Gastrointestinal Discomfort, then pee in the spell until they are satisfied.

[SpankWustler]

Elemental Magic: RDM C+, DRK B+
Dark Magic: RDM E, DRK A-

Throwing: PUP C+

[Prothscar]

You are a massive QQing moron. 13k damage every 1 minute? Get real dude.

[Cljader1]

Absolute Terror was resisted by Heqet. Do you want another spell only good for fodder mobs?

Yes Yes I do, its funny blus are talking about NM's and we drks cant even address NM's we still need spells to deal with fodder mobs...So do I want a spell that deals with fodder mobs, you bet your ass I do. Lines of terror should be the first thing a drk learns.

[Leonlionheart]

Yes Yes I do, its funny blus are talking about NM's and we drks cant even address NM's we still need spells to deal with fodder mobs...So do I want a spell that deals with fodder mobs, you bet your ass I do. Lines of terror should be the first thing a drk learns.

This post is stupid.

All 2 handers deal with fodder mobs the same way, except possibly DRG (can heal itself). Seigan, Third Eye, hit it a bunch or 1shot it w/ a ws (alternatively to seigan, using dread spikes on DRK is more beneficial most of the time). There's nothing broken with DRK on fodder mobs, it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. BLU on the other hand is a good solo job, but really sucks HORRIBLY on end game content where you fight high level mobs (Sky, HNM and now VW), where DRK and other two handers excel considerably.

Terror is probably useless in endgame, and there's no reason to want it for DRK.

[Dart]

I have to give one thing to blu that's quite entertaining. Friend of mine can do nearly 70k everybodies grudge with brew. Its just insane lmao.

[Urteil]

Fodder mobs for example - comprise Dynamis, and Dynamis is the process that yields the highest end of weapons.

I'd like abilities to excel here as well, so 'fodder abilities' like Terror {Yes, Please.}

[Neisan_Quetz]

Neither Blu or Drk have any real advantage in Dynamis, Dnc is ->

[Prothscar]

Gonna have to be fair and say BLU/DNC will be ahead of DNC after this update with native TH1+TH sash and a superior kill speed. However, terror has nothing to do with that.

Terror is not going to fix Dark Knight. It's a toy, you can have a toy. You should be wanting something that will actually help your job. Apocalypse is already a powerful weapon due to its utility, however the job does need more to be on par with other DDs such as WAR or SAM, and admittedly should not need a relic to be considered decent. Terror and a stronger Drain spell are not those things, those are wants to fit in with the flavor of your job which boils down to whining, not necessity.

[Urteil]

So the necessity is every DD being the best DD which is impossible? I'm fine with WAR doing the most physical damage its all the job has.


DRK does fine as far as damage is concerned, especially with Apocalypse. MOAR DEEPS to everyone doesn't fix anything.

This idea you have for jobs is amazingly boring, but okay:

Give me a Drain spell that I can spam and adds to my DPS considerably, there problem fixed right?

[Prothscar]

You already have that, it's called Catastrophe. It even comes with the added benefit of letting you take less damage while TPing!

Quit your whining if you don't want your job to actually be fixed.

The sad truth is that people do not invite you for being a special black snowflake that cries tears of blood. They invite people who deal damage. Deal with it.

Alternatively they may invite people who have an alternative role that benefits the party. Instead of asking for useless terror spells and drain spells, ask for something that actually benefits you and your peers. Like, I don't know, stat drains that don't suck.

[Cljader1]

You already have that, it's called Catastrophe. It even comes with the added benefit of letting you take less damage while TPing!

Quit your whining if you don't want your job to actually be fixed.

The sad truth is that people do not invite you for being a special black snowflake that cries tears of blood. They invite people who deal damage. Deal with it.

Alternatively they may invite people who have an alternative role that benefits the party. Instead of asking for useless terror spells and drain spells, ask for something that actually benefits you and your peers. Like, I don't know, stat drains that don't suck.

Stupid post a job should not be defined by its relic, you know better than that. An apoc is more than triple the price of a kraken club, you can't aspect any meleer as well as drk to have a relic

[Prothscar]

Do dynamis once a day and finish it in 2~4 weeks. Despite that, Apocalypse isn't going to make you that much better, it was more pointing out how someone who quite vocally owns an Apocalypse is whining for a spammable drain spell, however it is leagues better than "a drain that I can spam and adds to my DPS considerably". Terror and Drain are side benefits, something with substance such as a stronger tier of absorb spells that actually do something productive or a similar mechanic would be "uniiiiiiiiique" and would bolster the job to where it's actually useful for something. A drain for 200 more damage or a terror that makes an EP mob stop attacking for 10-20 seconds will not perform this task.

[Urteil]

Do dynamis once a day and finish it in 2~4 weeks. Despite that, Apocalypse isn't going to make you that much better, it was more pointing out how someone who quite vocally owns an Apocalypse is whining for a spammable drain spell, however it is leagues better than "a drain that I can spam and adds to my DPS considerably". Terror and Drain are side benefits, something with substance such as a stronger tier of absorb spells that actually do something productive or a similar mechanic would be "uniiiiiiiiique" and would bolster the job to where it's actually useful for something. A drain for 200 more damage or a terror that makes an EP mob stop attacking for 10-20 seconds will not perform this task.

I have an Apocalypse, I already perform your task.

I sarcastically mentioned a spammable spell 'leagues' better than normal drain because if its not DPS its somehow bad, or unnecessary. Many jobs DPS quite well and DRK is a respectable damage dealer with the capacity to have utility instead of being another cookie cutter TP->WS-TP-> WS job.

What about low-man, or soloing? Or duoing, or not having a full alliance. I run an LS we do every event VW/Ein/Sea/Limbus/whatever. These 'fodder' abilities would be nice when doing things in a smaller group or campaign/dynamis/walk of echoes/ballista/allofthesesystemsinthegamebesidesVW.

I do DPS, I'm amazing at DPS, its not hard to understand pDif, mods, and when to use stat vs atk gear vs your target. Its very easy to code xmls, and swap gear macros. Its been done easily by idiots the world over time and time again. (For those of us with a relic the amazingly hard, esoteric skill of the almighty aftermath macro!)

So give me a not useless terror spell, and a Drain that does 200 more damage so I can boost my HP by 200 more damage to do more damage. (Oh my God, did I win?) Or a spammable DPS one, whatever floats your boat.

There are already jobs that do damage DRK is one of them, its impossible to make every job the best at damage or balanced, we might as all just play WAR and MNK at that point which seems to be what you are advocating.

People invite jobs for damage and utility, a job with Damage and utility would be amazing.

As far as being fixed you seem to be advocating that our damage is the problem however that is far form the case outside Abyssea DRK does fine damage, and also is self sustaining. Quite frankly people who want Apocalypse to be the most damaging WS are living in a delusional bubble, and are flat out stupid, whats more broken than an entity that can max DPS and never need healing?

DRK needs to be combination of utility/damage, if I wanted to do the most MEREEDEEPS, I'd play Warrior or Samurai, but I was interested in the job because of its magical aspect combined with its formidable melee.

Your task is boring and trite, I'd like other things.
Also, I'm not sure what low-tier world you are living in. But people do not invite me, I invite them. So bottom line I have a relic, use it to great effect and wish there was a little more my job had to offer in the way of using the 700 odd mp that I have at my disposal.

[Chriscoffey]

Impact has your name on it Urteil.

[Urteil]

Impact has your name on it Urteil.

Make it my bitch.

[Prothscar]

I have an Apocalypse, I already perform your task.

I sarcastically mentioned a spammable spell 'leagues' better than normal drain because if its not DPS its somehow bad, or unnecessary. Many jobs DPS quite well and DRK is a respectable damage dealer with the capacity to have utility instead of being another cookie cutter TP->WS-TP-> WS job.


Of which drains and terrors does not help.



What about low-man, or soloing? Or duoing, or not having a full alliance. I run an LS we do every event VW/Ein/Sea/Limbus/whatever. These 'fodder' abilities would be nice when doing things in a smaller group or campaign/dynamis/walk of echoes/ballista/allofthesesystemsinthegamebesidesVW.


Odds are one of those people will have sleep, which will be infinitely better than any terror that players will ever be capable of using.



I do DPS, I'm amazing at DPS, its not hard to understand pDif, mods, and when to use stat vs atk gear vs your target. Its very easy to code xmls, and swap gear macros. Its been done easily by idiots the world over time and time again. (For those of us with a relic the amazingly hard, esoteric skill of the almighty aftermath macro!)


The way you talk it really does not seem like it. Apocalypse doesn't make you an ubar DD, it makes you a utilitous(not a word, deal with it) one.



So give me a not useless terror spell, and a Drain that does 200 more damage so I can boost my HP by 200 more damage to do more damage. (Oh my God, did I win?) Or a spammable DPS one, whatever floats your boat.


Won't get a not useless terror spell, it'll either be useless on NMs or have an incredibly short duration similar to stun. What you want is a new stun, we get it. Spammable DPS drain will lower your DPS, especially with an Apocalypse. A drain that returns 200 extra HP for "extra damage" will not supply the amount of "extra damage" to make you on par with your lauded TP->WS-TP DDs.



There are already jobs that do damage DRK is one of them, its impossible to make every job the best at damage or balanced, we might as all just play WAR and MNK at that point which seems to be what you are advocating.

People invite jobs for damage and utility, a job with Damage and utility would be amazing.


No, however I am advocating that your job become useful rather than the same old with a spell that might freeze an EP mob for less time than a slept one (oh but it stops them from moving too!) or a spell that drains 200 more HP, which by the way, is not a factor with a decent healer. "Oh but what if I'm solo?" I'm sure that 200 HP is doing a lot for you buddy.



As far as being fixed you seem to be advocating that our damage is the problem however that is far form the case outside Abyssea DRK does fine damage, and also is self sustaining. Quite frankly people who want Apocalypse to be the most damaging WS are living in a delusional bubble, and are flat out stupid, whats more broken than an entity that can max DPS and never need healing?


Which is why I said Apocalypse lends utility. It does not however make you a god among DDs, it makes you a DD who needs less cures than the rest of the DDs.



DRK needs to be combination of utility/damage, if I wanted to do the most MEREEDEEPS, I'd play Warrior or Samurai, but I was interested in the job because of its magical aspect combined with its formidable melee.


How does terror help in this regard in the slightest? Hint: you already have two spells stronger and more useful than terror, care to guess which ones?



Your task is boring and trite, I'd like other things.
Also, I'm not sure what low-tier world you are living in. But people do not invite me, I invite them. So bottom line I have a relic, use it to great effect and wish there was a little more my job had to offer in the way of using the 700 odd mp that I have at my disposal.

I can think of a few reasons that no one would invite you to be honest.

[Urteil]

If something is Terror'd you can still damage it, there is an advantage it has over sleep.
My job is already useful on HNM or whatever I know this, however I wouldn't mind being 'downgraded' to having fodder abilities.

Wanting DRK to do the most physical damage is ridiculous there's already jobs without MP pools for that.



The fact that DRK needs a relic to be utilitous for lack of a better word is also stupid.



Ad hominem is quite old.

[Prothscar]

Why do you need the mob to be slept/terror'd to attack it in the first place¿ Again, why do you even need the utility to terror an easy prey monster? There's no reason for it other than "I WANT IT MA I WANT IT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!" I can understand why you want it for that reason, but it does not fulfill your overall goal for the job in the slightest.

[Rohelius]

He wants it for Ballista maybe?
In any case im tired of the endless whining about what drk gets and does not get
I mean really.....? you want to insult the intelligence of the dev team all day and call them complete idiots and then Demandthings for your job in the same paragraph? not very smart imo.
I dont want/need terror on drk. Forget it.
you also keep saying you dont want drk to be the TP->WS->TP->WS job the other DD are yet you complain you have to interrupt your swings for casting? maybe you want insta-cast? how about running while casting?
all we need is MAB trait to make the OA sexy AbsorbsII and lower recast on some spells
as for the phisical side a Crit WS thats it.

[Cljader1]

Drk's should get terror abilities

[Siiri]

As has been pointed out, casting lowers dps. Because of this, I would think a bigger improvement for our casting should be a "dark celerity" similar to black mage elemental celerity. SE has mentioned this, so here is to hoping. Terror is basically a Stun 2, which would be nice, but isn't a game breaker or a reason to invite a drk. Stun is usually enough, especially if you are with a blm or a blue who can stun as well.

I think drk could use another great weaponskill at 99, especially a scythe one, since the emperyeon sucks so bad. Probably could use another solid offensive JA, then tweaking dark magic. It's not as bad as the OP and some others make it. Honestly while I appreciate your love for drk, the OP is getting a bit embarrassing feeding the emo drk stereotype. Drk isn't in a worse spot than a lot of other jobs. Just relax and let SE make their updates.

If they release another crap ws for drk at 99, sure complain. If t3 merits or new 99 JA come out and drk is screwed, complain. But lets give it a chance. I personally prefer a well played drk over many other jobs. Drk is still a fun job, and those of us who enjoy it are tired of the crying all the time.

[Chriscoffey]

As has been pointed out, casting lowers dps. Because of this, I would think a bigger improvement for our casting should be a "dark celerity" similar to black mage elemental celerity. SE has mentioned this, so here is to hoping. Terror is basically a Stun 2, which would be nice, but isn't a game breaker or a reason to invite a drk. Stun is usually enough, especially if you are with a blm or a blue who can stun as well.

I think drk could use another great weaponskill at 99, especially a scythe one, since the emperyeon sucks so bad. Probably could use another solid offensive JA, then tweaking dark magic. It's not as bad as the OP and some others make it. Honestly while I appreciate your love for drk, the OP is getting a bit embarrassing feeding the emo drk stereotype. Drk isn't in a worse spot than a lot of other jobs. Just relax and let SE make their updates.

If they release another crap ws for drk at 99, sure complain. If t3 merits or new 99 JA come out and drk is screwed, complain. But lets give it a chance. I personally prefer a well played drk over many other jobs. Drk is still a fun job, and those of us who enjoy it are tired of the crying all the time.
I would normally agree with your logic but considering this is what keeps getting said over and over year after year and nothing changes I am quite pessimistic to this concept being addressed.

[Dart]

gee who has been calling for insurgency or guillotine to be crit mod for a long time now.


NO IDEA >O

[Quetzacoatl]

As has been pointed out, casting lowers dps. Because of this, I would think a bigger improvement for our casting should be a "dark celerity" similar to black mage elemental celerity. SE has mentioned this, so here is to hoping.

I can't help but think this was SE's idea of a sick joke involving fast cast for dark magic:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Sortilege_Scythe

I'm still holding out for real Dark Magic Fast Cast though... ; ;

[SNK]

If something is Terror'd you can still damage it, there is an advantage it has over sleep.
My job is already useful on HNM or whatever I know this, however I wouldn't mind being 'downgraded' to having fodder abilities.

BST has a Terror JA and it sucks. To think that even if DRK got a Terror JA/Spell that would be worth a damn is silly.

[Dart]

BST has a Terror JA and it sucks. To think that even if DRK got a Terror JA/Spell that would be worth a damn is silly.

get out of here bst!

[Urteil]

BST has a Terror JA and it sucks. To think that even if DRK got a Terror JA/Spell that would be worth a damn is silly.

Works fine on not-bosses. I'd take the BST JA in a second.

[Urteil]

As has been pointed out, casting lowers dps. Because of this, I would think a bigger improvement for our casting should be a "dark celerity" similar to black mage elemental celerity. SE has mentioned this, so here is to hoping. Terror is basically a Stun 2, which would be nice, but isn't a game breaker or a reason to invite a drk. Stun is usually enough, especially if you are with a blm or a blue who can stun as well.

I think drk could use another great weaponskill at 99, especially a scythe one, since the emperyeon sucks so bad. Probably could use another solid offensive JA, then tweaking dark magic. It's not as bad as the OP and some others make it. Honestly while I appreciate your love for drk, the OP is getting a bit embarrassing feeding the emo drk stereotype. Drk isn't in a worse spot than a lot of other jobs. Just relax and let SE make their updates.

If they release another crap ws for drk at 99, sure complain. If t3 merits or new 99 JA come out and drk is screwed, complain. But lets give it a chance. I personally prefer a well played drk over many other jobs. Drk is still a fun job, and those of us who enjoy it are tired of the crying all the time.

If anything comes about, it surely can't be accredited to your complex and very middle school methodology of awkward hopeful silence, which you seem to have with the job. And these deep closet aspirations for it. So please stop hiding and come out into the open emo-kid, you don't have to worry about losing the social graces and applause of your fellow forum goers.

Be upfront and vocal about displeasure that has been going on for quite some time!

People that ride coat-tails like you are embarrassing, especially emo-people like yourselves.

What's that, you aren't emo? Nothing of the sort? But I was sure you were, with all of this proof and empirical evidence. . .

See. I can do it too, and it sounds unbearably trite, doesn't it?

[Dart]

Here's hoping that they continue to fix our melee side~

[Chriscoffey]

Here's hoping that they continue to fix our melee side~

I'm Darkchris and I approve this message.

[Taint2]

Here's hoping that they continue to fix our melee side~


Melee is all that matters for DRK. Anything on the magic side will be bettered by a mage job.

Endark was a spell worthly of a DRK but the cast time needs to halved. The best Magic fix I can see for DRK is to take away the casting penalty on Hasso/Seigan.

[Dart]

Melee is all that matters for DRK. Anything on the magic side will be bettered by a mage job.

Endark was a spell worthly of a DRK but the cast time needs to halved. The best Magic fix I can see for DRK is to take away the casting penalty on Hasso/Seigan.

I know that we're beating a dead horse, but maybe it'll get through eventually.

Yes, Endark is one of the new spells that I always use when its up and I don't have haste samba. Of course sadly since one of my friends is a dnc nutjob and has twaster. We always seem to have a dnc around giving me haste samba -_-

Also, what I'm secretly hoping for is another significant boost to relic ws dmg at 99. I've always been pretty impressed with my dps but our ws just LACK big time. It would also close the gap or push most relics just slightly ahead of empy which is the way that I think it should be. Just my own personal bias.

[Rohelius]

I sub warrior stack double attack and accuracy the rest is done by atmas.
Seeing 1.6k-2.1k guillotines no buffs consistently and 2.5k-3.1k with berserk and last resort
I can break 4k with souleater but I rarely do that.
My gear is at best decent not epic.
I don't see a big problem with dark knight physically.
Maybe you guys want to do 7k guillotines lol?
Here's a hint, stop shooting up so much /sam and stp and go back to good old /war brawn..
Oh you want to cry about dps? Go lvl monk thats not a dark knight job.
Who the hell still parses anyway lol?

[Taint2]

I sub warrior stack double attack and accuracy the rest is done by atmas.
Seeing 1.6k-2.1k guillotines no buffs consistently and 2.5k-3.1k with berserk and last resort
I can break 4k with souleater but I rarely do that.
My gear is at best decent not epic.
I don't see a big problem with dark knight physically.
Maybe you guys want to do 7k guillotines lol?
Here's a hint, stop shooting up so much /sam and stp and go back to good old /war brawn..
Oh you want to cry about dps? Go lvl monk thats not a dark knight job.
Who the hell still parses anyway lol?


Please tell me this is a troll attempt....

[Rohelius]

Its a futile attempt to make these kids shut up.
They want SE to do their jobs for them for christ sake...

[Urteil]

Melee is all that matters for DRK. Anything on the magic side will be bettered by a mage job.

Endark was a spell worthly of a DRK but the cast time needs to halved. The best Magic fix I can see for DRK is to take away the casting penalty on Hasso/Seigan.

True, and in end-game this is a solid fact. Proven a hundred, thousand, million, billion times over.

And anyone who argues against this (which I think nobody does), with DRK in its current state (and state since the beginning of time) is a moron.

However:

It would be nice for our melee/damage/purpose to be boosted through some type of synergy between spellcasting that focuses on melee augmentation.

Or for something to be given that adds utility: another stun, terror, debuff mob to physical/magical damage or an ability that shortens dark magic recast or more potent dark magic in our arsenal.

And during events we can fulfill our specific melee only role, and hey, we could maybe use a tiny bit of a boost there too.

Or perhaps with a miracle be given another dimension to our job, other than just doing pure physical damage, even in the form of increasing the damage of other party members and our own through a Dark Magic or Job Ability debuff.

Because there are about 7 other jobs just for that in all kinds of boring vanilla flavors.

But:

It does not have to be this way and really shouldn't considering the theme, and potential the job would have with some competent design behind it. Nobody including myself is asking the wheel to be re-invented.

We want simple things like job traits that make sense, and Dark Magic that is actually worth casting, and that through its vampiric nature, actually succeeds in doing what is advertised: mostly faster, three minute cool down on Drain II is silly, 75s or 120s please (before haste.)

Our specific line of absorb-spells outside of one (mabye two) being useful and worth casting in more than zero situations.

And perhaps some form of quick instant damage that puts our Dark Magic skill and four tiers of OA to use.


And:

Many of us would be happy also with some small tweaks on the side for our own benefit much akin to how a RDM melees outside of a party or alliance or events, for their own benefit. Or many other jobs do things for their own benefit, or in low man/soloing situations have use.


Anything magic based would not be bettered by a Mage job de facto.

That's only because our magic/spells are implemented poorly and we have little to no specialization, and are nowhere near "The Most Affluent in Dark Magic" as SE purportedly claims they have our "vision" of us to be.

A curious occurence. . .
Ironically DRK has the only nerfed spell in PvP (Dread spikes). It's nerfed to uselessness already being made futile against anything monster/person with MDT gear, or darkness based target or undead.
(3 things! Woo!)

It only lasts a minute: In PvE that hardly matters, in PvP woop kite for a minute, and who cares it does 20% of max hp, negligible after MDT reduction.

Its marginally useful in end game situations/any situation. The fact that the Dark Magic of Dark Knight is so underwhelming is entirley SE's fault. Dark Magic is all a stones throw away from being really really good, but its limited by either: recast, duration, or a severley hampered effect.

In addition to absurdity like the above they won't give us a native tier of Magic Attack Bonus?

I suppose it is no wonder why our magic is lacking when instead of MABI they gave us Tactical Parry.

Finally:

I don't want to play a job that can only melee 100% of the time, and why would you want to? There's a DRK without MP its called warrior, and if you want some Asian cuisine we have Monk and Samurai too.


SE, just give us a HP -> TP version of sublimation that we can store then activate to give us TP on demand. Sublimation was our ability (CUT MAHSELF AND SACRIFICE HPEES FOR MPEES) but you gave it to Scholar soooo whatever.

HP -> TP. Done!

[Juggernautx]

It is almost Christmas and I want new toys. /support on

[Dart]

True, and in end-game this is a solid fact. Proven a hundred, thousand, million, billion times over.

And anyone who argues against this (which I think nobody does), with DRK in its current state (and state since the beginning of time) is a moron.

However:

It would be nice for our melee/damage/purpose to be boosted through some type of synergy between spellcasting that focuses on melee augmentation.

Or for something to be given that adds utility: another stun, terror, debuff mob to physical/magical damage or an ability that shortens dark magic recast or more potent dark magic in our arsenal.

And during events we can fulfill our specific melee only role, and hey, we could maybe use a tiny bit of a boost there too.

Or perhaps with a miracle be given another dimension to our job, other than just doing pure physical damage, even in the form of increasing the damage of other party members and our own through a Dark Magic or Job Ability debuff.

Because there are about 7 other jobs just for that in all kinds of boring vanilla flavors.

But:

It does not have to be this way and really shouldn't considering the theme, and potential the job would have with some competent design behind it. Nobody including myself is asking the wheel to be re-invented.

We want simple things like job traits that make sense, and Dark Magic that is actually worth casting, and that through its vampiric nature, actually succeeds in doing what is advertised: mostly faster, three minute cool down on Drain II is silly, 75s or 120s please (before haste.)

Our specific line of absorb-spells outside of one (mabye two) being useful and worth casting in more than zero situations.

And perhaps some form of quick instant damage that puts our Dark Magic skill and four tiers of OA to use.


And:

Many of us would be happy also with some small tweaks on the side for our own benefit much akin to how a RDM melees outside of a party or alliance or events, for their own benefit. Or many other jobs do things for their own benefit, or in low man/soloing situations have use.


Anything magic based would not be bettered by a Mage job de facto.

That's only because our magic/spells are implemented poorly and we have little to no specialization, and are nowhere near "The Most Affluent in Dark Magic" as SE purportedly claims they have our "vision" of us to be.

A curious occurence. . .
Ironically DRK has the only nerfed spell in PvP (Dread spikes). It's nerfed to uselessness already being made futile against anything monster/person with MDT gear, or darkness based target or undead.
(3 things! Woo!)

It only lasts a minute: In PvE that hardly matters, in PvP woop kite for a minute, and who cares it does 20% of max hp, negligible after MDT reduction.

Its marginally useful in end game situations/any situation. The fact that the Dark Magic of Dark Knight is so underwhelming is entirley SE's fault. Dark Magic is all a stones throw away from being really really good, but its limited by either: recast, duration, or a severley hampered effect.

In addition to absurdity like the above they won't give us a native tier of Magic Attack Bonus?

I suppose it is no wonder why our magic is lacking when instead of MABI they gave us Tactical Parry.

Finally:

I don't want to play a job that can only melee 100% of the time, and why would you want to? There's a DRK without MP its called warrior, and if you want some Asian cuisine we have Monk and Samurai too.


SE, just give us a HP -> TP version of sublimation that we can store then activate to give us TP on demand. Sublimation was our ability (CUT MAHSELF AND SACRIFICE HPEES FOR MPEES) but you gave it to Scholar soooo whatever.

HP -> TP. Done!

well thought/wrote out, we're on the same bandwagon. FINALLY lol

[Saiken253]

I support all of what Urtiel has been saying throughout this thread. DRK is by far my favorite job on FFXI, but it's really getting hard to keep up that love after all these years. Especially with all the doting and spoiling that WAR SAM MNK have been getting for all these years while we keep getting buried further and further into the ground; and that hole will soon be filling up with us still inside if something right isn't done. That is something that I never want to see happen.