DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

[Camate]

Howdy! In regards to all of the feedback and questions we have been receiving, we got some additional information about the future dark knight from the development team.


Make it so we can deal large amounts of damage proportionate to the amount of risk taken.


Just as shown in the concept, we will be making adjustments so that you can temporarily deal larger amounts of damage compared to other jobs.


Include “attackers specialized in absorption” to the concept and make adjustments based on this.

Don’t think that we will not be considering things that were not mentioned in the concept.The core of adjustments will be what is outlined in the concepts, but we will be making adjustments to enhance and spruce them up.

We are aware of your requests for changes/additions revolving around absorption and we are looking into new ideas for it besides just Drain, Aspir, and the other existing absorb-type spells.


Get rid of the Souleater resistance on NMs.

This will really depend on balance adjustments between the stats of Souleater itself and a monster’s strength. For right now, from a balance perspective we believe it is difficult to get rid of the resistance.


Add an ability that adds to your attack when taking damage.

In the next version update we will be adding an ability that raises your attack power when taking damage. The effect can be used with both physical and magical damage.


Add a job trait that raises magic attack.

We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.


Increase our parry skill so that we can receive a larger benefit from Tactical Parry.

First as an overall adjustment, we will be revamping the difficulty of increasing parry skill. After this, the next step will be skill adjustments for each class.


Add Fast Cast specific for Dark Magic.

We will look into it. We will make it so dark knight is the most affluent with Stun, Drain, and other Dark Magic.


Revamp the MP cost and recast time on Dread Spikes.

We will be grouping this with the Dark Magic adjustments written above, so we are thinking to address this through Dark Magic Fast Cast.


Make it so it’s possible to absorb MP with Aspir from enemies that do not have MP.

It would be kind of strange to absorb something that does not exist, so if we were to adjust Aspir we would be looking into it from a different direction.


Increase the effect of absorb spells.

For absorb-type spells we will first be looking into removing the time decay of stats that were absorbed. After this, we plan on making adjustments to the effects.


Add Stun II.

When considering the current properties and potency of Stun, we are not thinking of adding another stun at this time.

[Gotterdammerung]

Don’t think that we will not be considering things that were not mentioned in the concept.

Holy Cottonballs!

A triple negative~!

[StingRay104]

First off thank you camate for a 2nd response, after the first response it is good to hear.

Second I don't think its ridiculous to ask that this update include a fix to the absorbs spells in the following manner: Make absorbs stack with cruor buffs. I understand removing decay is gonna take some time but this can be done now, in fact it should have been done along time ago, all other stat related buffs from other jobs stack with cruor buffs why not our absorbs.

Third thank you for finally considering the decay on absorb spells, but please look into increasing their strength as well.

Fourth, its sad that there will not (at this point) be a stun II, but at least your considering a fast cast specific for DRK and that you want us to be better at stunning (Look into lowering the down time on weapon bash please), also an increase in stun duration (preferred based on dark magic skill) would also be very nice if it could be done.

Fifth, it sounds like you guyus are finally listening to our ideas as far as magic and specifically occult acumen is concerned, please make it worth our wild seeing as how for once we seem to be on the same page.

Sixth, souleater resistance is really lame just like sch modus veritas miss, it should be removed. Unfortunately you and the dev team feels different and thus we will be constantly butting heads on this, but take heed on this at least. Its not fair to us players to have a unique ability become useful after only a short amount of attacks, its just wrong. We were constantly asking for AV to become a accomplishable challenge and you neglected our complaints and we found alternative ways to accomplish the task, and this upset you so you took your revenge upon us. The same holds true for modus veritas, which isn't a difficult fix just put a cap of 5 modus stacks and there its fixed, and return the ability to a perfect accuracy ability. As for souleater I can understand that you don't want us to misuse it like the old days but since war can just spam 10k Ukko's fury's why still hold a grudge on souleater, its ridiculous. Thats how I feel and I think you'll find many who agree with me on the topic.

Finally, altho I completely agree with the new steps towards a magic buff for DRK I have to say the t3 nukes we have cost too much for us to use well, now if you fix it so that everything has mp to aspir and aspir starts netting faster then alot of this will be resolved, but otherwise we need a new direction. Such as a new set of DRK only nukes that have low casting cost offer up the kind of damage and tp return we expect from your new abilities and most of all include some of that amazing debuff like magic we use, for instance make it lower stats, or skills, kinda like impact but less powerful and more DRK focused. I think that will go a long ways with what we all expect out of DRK, especially if we can drain our opponents def......HINT!!!!HINT!!!!!WINK!!!!WINK!!!!!

[Airget]

For the ability to absorb MP with aspir from mobs that do not have MP there could be a way to do it. What if you just make a JA that basically says the next aspir spell absorbs the mobs HP and converts it into MP for the user. You could call the JA "Dark Essence" or something and make it a 5 min duration lol.

[Karbuncle]

For the ability to absorb MP with aspir from mobs that do not have MP there could be a way to do it. What if you just make a JA that basically says the next aspir spell absorbs the mobs HP and converts it into MP for the user. You could call the JA "Dark Essence" or something and make it a 5 min duration lol.

This idea isn't very far fetched.

Especially with Ws like Spirit Taker and Mystic Boon converting Damage Dealt(HP) to users MP.

[Alhanelem]

When considering the current properties and potency of Stun, we are not thinking of adding another stun at this time. So why does there seem to be an animation for it in the data files?

[Kojo]

Kinda late here, but rather than a "Stun II" give us Terror with a similar casting time of Stun. Terror is like Stun only it shuts you down for a bit longer.

The "Darkness" or "Unholy" (I think that was Holy's opposite in FFT), I'd LOVE to see that happen.

We have Souleater as an effect, and I find myself using it to boost a WS and after WS removing it to avoid dying. Why not give a new JA called "Darkside" that makes your next hit sacrifice some HP for additional dmg?

Now, after all these years.. One gripe I've always had... Spiral Hell sucks. Any way we could get a job trait that boosts WS DMG, and make Spiral Hell worth using? The best I ever did with it was during the DRK/THF days, full buffing it.

[Minsc]

And the cries for "Insurgency = Crit-hit WS" get ignored...

[Kojo]

And the cries for "Insurgency = Crit-hit WS" get ignored...

I don't have Insurgency, no one does Nyzul anymore.

[Bulrogg]

In regards to absorbing MP when there is none there... maybe a new dark spell that will deal a form of damage and convert it in MP. Kinda like the way Spirit Taker works. Or maybe a trait/ability that will make any Weapon Skill function like Spirit Taker.



edit- didn't see the other post regarding this till after I posted; sorry.


In regards to no Stun II... maybe lower the recast of Weapon Bash. Or if possible, have the Bash ability charge up similar to the way Stratagems do. I think that would be a hefty addition to the stun arsenal.

[Supersun]

That or give them the Osmose spell where instead of draining MP like aspir it deals damage and converts it into MP.

[Elexia]

I don't have Insurgency, no one does Nyzul anymore.

I do and I want it crit based.

[Kojo]

I do and I want it crit based.

I simply want it. >.> THEN I'll want it crit based.

[Urteil]

Howdy! In regards to all of the feedback and questions we have been receiving, we got some additional information about the future dark knight from the development team.



Just as shown in the concept, we will be making adjustments so that you can temporarily deal larger amounts of damage compared to other jobs.



Don’t think that we will not be considering things that were not mentioned in the concept.The core of adjustments will be what is outlined in the concepts, but we will be making adjustments to enhance and spruce them up.

We are aware of your requests for changes/additions revolving around absorption and we are looking into new ideas for it besides just Drain, Aspir, and the other existing absorb-type spells.



This will really depend on balance adjustments between the stats of Souleater itself and a monster’s strength. For right now, from a balance perspective we believe it is difficult to get rid of the resistance.



In the next version update we will be adding an ability that raises your attack power when taking damage. The effect can be used with both physical and magical damage.



We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.



First as an overall adjustment, we will be revamping the difficulty of increasing parry skill. After this, the next step will be skill adjustments for each class.



We will look into it. We will make it so dark knight is the most affluent with Stun, Drain, and other Dark Magic.



We will be grouping this with the Dark Magic adjustments written above, so we are thinking to address this through Dark Magic Fast Cast.



It would be kind of strange to absorb something that does not exist, so if we were to adjust Aspir we would be looking into it from a different direction.



For absorb-type spells we will first be looking into removing the time decay of stats that were absorbed. After this, we plan on making adjustments to the effects.



When considering the current properties and potency of Stun, we are not thinking of adding another stun at this time.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just as shown in the concept, we will be making adjustments so that you can temporarily deal larger amounts of damage compared to other jobs.

-By increasing attack while taking damage, you don't mean the actual +"Attack" statistic do you? With food and and the Dark Knight's inherently high attack + endark this would turn out to be rather inconsequential.

I'm hoping you mean a straight % to damage dealt, and also applies to magical damage as well.



It would be kind of strange to absorb something that does not exist, so if we were to adjust Aspir we would be looking into it from a different direction.

-A concern by many Dark Knights is that we do not have the MP required to do what the development team envisions for our job. That all of this magical talk is useless if we are without the MP required to fuel it.

If we are sacrificing MP to boost our damage through MP:

Is the Dev Team planning on increasing our base MP?

Decreasing the base cost of spells through a job trait/ability native to Dark Knight.

Giving us a magical spell or job ability that allows us to convert damage dealt -> mp?

Giving Dark Knight Tiers of Auto refresh, or abilities to recover HP/MP more effectively?



We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.

-By sacrificing MP to increase magical attack or taking damage to increase magical attack, will this also apply to the line of Aspir/Drain?

If this new stance or ability to increase our magical attack does not increase the power of our signature line of spells, this seems very lackluster and useless.



First things first:

-How do you intend for Dark Knight to be able to cast spells in combat while on the front lines?

Our elemental skill level is too low, the spells take too long to cast compared to melee hits, and the most common support Job is Samurai which only serves to lengthen and hurt our already feeble spell casting abilities.

Or we to sacrifice the best support job we have to increase our failing physical damage capabilities, to use half-baked magical methods of inflicted pain on our foes?

And we are interrupted easily, like a baby being distracted by a shiny object.

Does SE plan on giving us fast cast for all magics?

An strong trait that gives us interruption resistance?

An absorb spell that greatly reduces the enemy casting speed and greatly increases our own?

[Urteil]

Created and replicated Camate's post in this forum in the Dark Knight area:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12405-Official-Developer-Feedback-Forum?p=160603#post160603


I suppose that's a more 'proper' place for it anyway, so its there, go talk about it or whatever, and community rep's post there!

Thank you.

[Seriha]

Meh, DRK's blubbering about a lack of gear to make nukes count has me shaking my head. As is, the back is certainly our weakest slot for these builds, but +53 INT and +34 MATK is possible with a set, maybe more depending on what you have access to. Compared to RDM, I'm sitting on +73 INT and +33 MATK. No doubt a native MATK trait helps, as well as the likelihood of swapping staves. Regardless, these can double toward the elemental WS like Infernal and Herculean, which may be further adjusted amongst the vague reference to WS adjustments. Insurgency going crit-based could also be among those tweaks. I do feel DRKs should get at least level 2 in the MATK trait, though, and all the MP jobs deserve some form of tiered auto-refresh to both up longevity and versatility.

[Urteil]

Meh, DRK's blubbering about a lack of gear to make nukes count has me shaking my head. As is, the back is certainly our weakest slot for these builds, but +53 INT and +34 MATK is possible with a set, maybe more depending on what you have access to. Compared to RDM, I'm sitting on +73 INT and +33 MATK. No doubt a native MATK trait helps, as well as the likelihood of swapping staves. Regardless, these can double toward the elemental WS like Infernal and Herculean, which may be further adjusted amongst the vague reference to WS adjustments. Insurgency going crit-based could also be among those tweaks. I do feel DRKs should get at least level 2 in the MATK trait, though, and all the MP jobs deserve some form of tiered auto-refresh to both up longevity and versatility.

DRK has excellent gear for nuking, anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.


The native MATK and ability to swap staves without negative repercussions however,

is kind of a big deal.

[Quetzacoatl]

Camate, I'm legitimately hyped to hear this news. O_O

I'd like to offer some input to the developers for consideration, if they haven't already:

• Aftermath Adjustment for Catastrophe: With Dark Knight able to obtain gear-related haste more easily, we believe the aftermath effect of 10% Haste applied to gear after using Catastrophe would be better suited toward Magical Haste from now on.

• Job Ability Dire Strike: The Dark Knight consumes a portion of their own HP to enhance their next attack and ignore level difference penalties.

• Dark Magic Demi, Demi II, Demi III, Scathe: Deals Dark Magical Damage to an enemy.*

• Dark Magic Absorb-Attack: Steals a target's attack rating and adds it to the caster's own.

• Dark Magic Absorb-Speed: Steals a target's attack speed and adds Haste to the caster.

Let us know what the devs think!

*Since Paladin and White Mage have their own set of Divine Magic "Nukes," why shouldn't Dark Knights have their own set of Dark Magic "Nukes"? Black Mage can be added to the jobs that can use it as well if desired.

[Quetzacoatl]

And the cries for "Insurgency = Crit-hit WS" get ignored...
I've honestly given up on the idea of Insurgency becoming a Critical-Damage WS the moment I saw that Vorpal Scythe is already one. Guillotine isn't that bad now that we have Last Resort at a 3-minute duration, and It's okay for Normal Monsters and Lower-Tier NMs. We can easily cap Accuracy, now we just need to push our Attack stat further.

Though, whatever happened to the idea of using Spinning Slash for Bigger NMs? I'm pretty sure some vets already know this, but *GASP!* Spinning Slash ignores level penalties in the same way Flashy Shot does! Try it with either Stout Arm/Razed Ruins/Apocalypse or Alpha&Omega/RazedRuins/Apocalypse. I had some passable numbers with it while it lasted for me.

If it doesn't, well...either find a gear set to improve it, or suck it up and work for an Empyrean Weapon (or WoE Weapon depending on how much you play).

[Urteil]

Camate, I'm legitimately hyped to hear this news. O_O

I'd like to offer some input to the developers for consideration, if they haven't already:

• Aftermath Adjustment for Catastrophe: With Dark Knight able to obtain gear-related haste more easily, we believe the aftermath effect of 10% Haste applied to gear after using Catastrophe would be better suited toward Magical Haste from now on.

• Job Ability Dire Strike: The Dark Knight consumes a portion of their own HP to enhance their next attack and ignore level difference penalties.

• Dark Magic Demi, Demi II, Demi III, Scathe: Deals Dark Magical Damage to an enemy.*

• Dark Magic Absorb-Attack: Steals a target's attack rating and adds it to the caster's own.

• Dark Magic Absorb-Speed: Steals a target's attack speed and adds Haste to the caster.

Let us know what the devs think!

*Since Paladin and White Mage have their own set of Divine Magic "Nukes," why shouldn't Dark Knights have their own set of Dark Magic "Nukes"? Black Mage can be added to the jobs that can use it as well if desired.


I like all of these, like +1.


Maybe we could sacrifice our hp to force a critical? "Dire Strike".


The Catastrophe nonsense that is going on now I don't understand either, if Aegis can boost the -mdt cap why doesn't our aftermath get 'helped'? Its totally worthless due to a Job Trait we possess.



Good ideas, especially the Dark Magic nukes because I don't understand why Holy is in the game and "Dunkelheit" "Darkness" is not.

[Minsc]

I've honestly given up on the idea of Insurgency becoming a Critical-Damage WS the moment I saw that Vorpal Scythe is already one. Guillotine isn't that bad now that we have Last Resort at a 3-minute duration, and It's okay for Normal Monsters and Lower-Tier NMs. We can easily cap Accuracy, now we just need to push our Attack stat further.

Though, whatever happened to the idea of using Spinning Slash for Bigger NMs? I'm pretty sure some vets already know this, but *GASP!* Spinning Slash ignores level penalties in the same way Flashy Shot does! Try it with either Stout Arm/Razed Ruins/Apocalypse or Alpha&Omega/RazedRuins/Apocalypse. I had some passable numbers with it while it lasted for me.

If it doesn't, well...either find a gear set to improve it, or suck it up and work for an Empyrean Weapon (or WoE Weapon depending on how much you play).

Except that other weapons have multiple crit-hit WSs...

Polearm: Vorpal Thrust, Skewer, Drakesbane
Great Axe: Raging Rush, Ukko's Fury
H2H: Backhand Blow, Stringing Pummel, Ascetic's Fury, Victory Smite
Sword: Vorpal Blade, Chant du Cygne

So in other words, not exactly unheard of for a weapon to have more than one crit-hit WS.

[Unctgtg]

I like where this is going

[Ophannus]

Always figured that DRK's damage was supposed to stem from raw base damage like Spiral Hell(at 300%), Spinning Slash, Ground Strike, Torcleaver. Basically instead of low fTP, multiple hits with crit potential, thought DRK's philosophy of DD was supposed to be high fTP/high WSC. Should crit WS be the end all be all to WS? They do good damage only due to Abyssea things but on future mob that have crazy def/evasion a multihit crit ws will probably suck. For example, unless heavily debuffed and myself heavily buffed, a Drakesbane on Kirin/Sky Gods/TOAU Kings would do like 500-800 on average just because of their high def and level differences at 75. Of course by the same token a Spinning Slash or Steel Cyclone would do 1000-1400 just because of the +Att% multiplier on those WS. For future mobs which are going to be multiple levels above us with higher eva/def, I can see WS like Victory Smite/Drakesbane and others not doing so well. Ukkos and Hi might be spared since they're fewer hits, although I can see Hi's damage dropping significantly just because of the pDIF rape of a NIN's att vs a future HNM's def unless with Curry and Berserk up and dia3/angon on the mob.

[Minsc]

Always figured that DRK's damage was supposed to stem from raw base damage like Spiral Hell(at 300%), Spinning Slash, Ground Strike, Torcleaver. Basically instead of low fTP, multiple hits with crit potential, thought DRK's philosophy of DD was supposed to be high fTP/high WSC. Should crit WS be the end all be all to WS? They do good damage only due to Abyssea things but on future mob that have crazy def/evasion a multihit crit ws will probably suck. For example, unless heavily debuffed and myself heavily buffed, a Drakesbane on Kirin/Sky Gods/TOAU Kings would do like 500-800 on average just because of their high def and level differences at 75. Of course by the same token a Spinning Slash or Steel Cyclone would do 1000-1400 just because of the +Att% multiplier on those WS. For future mobs which are going to be multiple levels above us with higher eva/def, I can see WS like Victory Smite/Drakesbane and others not doing so well. Ukkos and Hi might be spared since they're fewer hits, although I can see Hi's damage dropping significantly just because of the pDIF rape of a NIN's att vs a future HNM's def unless with Curry and Berserk up and dia3/angon on the mob.

And what's the problem with having both? Never said crit-hit WSs should be the end all be all WS, would just be nice to see DRK get a good one too. You reference Steel Cyclone, but when's the last time you've seen WAR use that in Abyssea? Just saying it'd be nice for DRK to be on par with a lot of the other DDs out there when it comes to variety of WSs.

[Quetzacoatl]

Except that other weapons have multiple crit-hit WSs...

Polearm: Vorpal Thrust, Skewer, Drakesbane
Great Axe: Raging Rush, Ukko's Fury
H2H: Backhand Blow, Stringing Pummel, Ascetic's Fury, Victory Smite
Sword: Vorpal Blade, Chant du Cygne

So in other words, not exactly unheard of for a weapon to have more than one crit-hit WS.

I understand that, but it seems like at this this point of the game, there's no intent for DRK to have big-hitter critical damage Weapon Skills in SE's eyes. It would help, but for how long now that we're almost done with Abyssea? Unless that "adjustment of weapon skills" note at the end of the manifesto is giving us a hint of the possibility. We'll just have to see.

[Quetzacoatl]

I like all of these, like +1.

Maybe we could sacrifice our hp to force a critical? "Dire Strike".

The Catastrophe nonsense that is going on now I don't understand either, if Aegis can boost the -mdt cap why doesn't our aftermath get 'helped'? Its totally worthless due to a Job Trait we possess.

Good ideas, especially the Dark Magic nukes because I don't understand why Holy is in the game and "Dunkelheit" "Darkness" is not.

I figured someone would suggest that about Dire Strike. It seems like that would just get sand kicked in THF's face if it were forced critical hit, so ignoring cRatio is where I believe we should start focusing instead. Jar may have acted like a douche at times, but he was onto something.

Yeah something needs to be done about Catastrophe's Aftermath; no question about it.

Having Dark Magic nukes would be nice too, considering that we're now getting an ability that converts part of our MP into Magic Attack.

[Bubeeky]

admittedly, I don't play drk, and I prolly wouldn't even check this thread if it wasn't for Camate posting manifesto info here, but I like the parry thing....parry sucks to skillup and I'm thrilled to hear that they are going to revamp it :)

As a side note, being a whm, I'd totally support any increase to DRK's ability to heal themselves through drains lol

[Gotterdammerung]

Does "Revamping the difficulty of skilling parry" mean its going to be easier or harder to skill parry?

[Quetzacoatl]

admittedly, I don't play drk, and I prolly wouldn't even check this thread if it wasn't for Camate posting manifesto info here, but I like the parry thing....parry sucks to skillup and I'm thrilled to hear that they are going to revamp it :)

As a side note, being a whm, I'd totally support any increase to DRK's ability to heal themselves through drains lol

Definitely. Faster and more potent Drains would give the job more individuality.

[Korpg]

Does "Revamping the difficulty of skilling parry" mean its going to be easier or harder to skill parry?

Knowing SE, it will be harder.

[Return1]

Catastrophe's Haste Aftermath is still pretty damn strong, but I certainly wouldn't complain about it breaking the 80% cap and taking us to 90%.

As it stands, Apocalypse is currently DRK's strongest weapon, and Catastrophe is the strongest 100tp Scythe WS.

This is either awesome when you think that having Apoc makes your DRK the strongest it can be, or sad when you think about Empyreans and other jobs like WAR's Ukko's Fury.

[JovialRat]

just hearing from the dev. team is a plus in my book, hearing their thoughts, what they like and what they are planning it hawt stuff. we'd only get that info on the update version day or days previous.

[StingRay104]

Meh, DRK's blubbering about a lack of gear to make nukes count has me shaking my head. As is, the back is certainly our weakest slot for these builds, but +53 INT and +34 MATK is possible with a set, maybe more depending on what you have access to. Compared to RDM, I'm sitting on +73 INT and +33 MATK. No doubt a native MATK trait helps, as well as the likelihood of swapping staves. Regardless, these can double toward the elemental WS like Infernal and Herculean, which may be further adjusted amongst the vague reference to WS adjustments. Insurgency going crit-based could also be among those tweaks. I do feel DRKs should get at least level 2 in the MATK trait, though, and all the MP jobs deserve some form of tiered auto-refresh to both up longevity and versatility.

All the magic att gear in the world means nothign since our basic melee hits will do more damage and do it faster than our current "Nukes" not to mention our low mp pool makes it even more useless to bring this point up. Rdm has access to all this refresh gear, refresh 1 & 2, and convert, DRK has none of these, all we get is aspir and aspir 2 and we all know how well they work. BTW I have actually gone out in abyssea with hell's guardian and ultimate atmas on my DRK to see if they made Herculean worth using, and the answer is nope. DRK was never meant to cast t3 nukes, period, rdm was built to cast lots of nukes and do it very fast.

As for all the QQ about no crit ws, well they are still doing a big ws adjustment, so just because they didn't mention it doesn't mean that it won't happen.

[Anathiel]

Well, with the new abilities, wouldn't you be able to MB on your own SC and do competent damage? I know that SC aren't the big thing in abyssea, but I definitely remember magic bursting on my own skill chains back in CoP days.

[Quetzacoatl]

Well, with the new abilities, wouldn't you be able to MB on your own SC and do competent damage? I know that SC aren't the big thing in abyssea, but I definitely remember magic bursting on my own skill chains back in CoP days.

I wouldn't magic burst with elemental magic on DRK unless you get a big return on Drain2/Absorb-TP.

[Unctgtg]

I am waiting to see what they have planned for Apoc 95, and how much WS boost we get again.

[Urteil]

Does "Revamping the difficulty of skilling parry" mean its going to be easier or harder to skill parry?

Who knows what the fuck this means.

Or what it had to do with the question about DRK actually getting use out of one of the most useless Job Trait/Job Combinations ever.

[Urteil]

I wouldn't magic burst with elemental magic on DRK unless you get a big return on Drain2/Absorb-TP.

DRK is long overdue for increased potency to its spells, or having the unique quality where magical attack bonus increases the power of its Drain/Aspir line.

[Taint2]

I am waiting to see what they have planned for Apoc 95, and how much WS boost we get again.


Apoc is already DRKs best weapon, stop sweating the weapon and hope they fix the job.

[Kojo]

Apoc is already DRKs best weapon, stop sweating the weapon and hope they fix the job.

Does Catastrophe do 3k-5k though?

[Selzak]

Weapon Bash should have a lower recast, and DRK should get a trait that occasionally knocks the mob with a strong enfeeble like Amnesia or Plague. Can't believe they're considering giving that to SAM, makes no sense at all.

[Taint2]

Does Catastrophe do 3k-5k though?


In Abyssea sure, but whats it matter, everything is auto kill and you shouldn't be on DRK anyways. Outside Abyssea Apoc sh!ts on every other weapon, bar maybe Rag.

Torcleaver is DRKs best damaging WS but the weapon itself (and the gear DRK can use) really hurts it against Apoc.

[Quetzacoatl]

In Abyssea sure, but whats it matter, everything is auto kill and you shouldn't be on DRK anyway.

I've never seen Cata do 3-5K... >_>

[Taint2]

I've never seen Cata do 3-5K... >_>


Not sure how to help you with that, but it can.

[Unctgtg]

Highest I have done with my basics (RR, VV, GN) was 4531 or around there, now I am sure I can get higher with the GC added in, and of course thats not the Norm.

Cata should hit for like 9999 damage :)

[Seriha]

All the magic att gear in the world means nothign since our basic melee hits will do more damage and do it faster than our current "Nukes" not to mention our low mp pool makes it even more useless to bring this point up. Rdm has access to all this refresh gear, refresh 1 & 2, and convert, DRK has none of these, all we get is aspir and aspir 2 and we all know how well they work. BTW I have actually gone out in abyssea with hell's guardian and ultimate atmas on my DRK to see if they made Herculean worth using, and the answer is nope. DRK was never meant to cast t3 nukes, period, rdm was built to cast lots of nukes and do it very fast.

As for all the QQ about no crit ws, well they are still doing a big ws adjustment, so just because they didn't mention it doesn't mean that it won't happen.

If all you're doing is looking at things from the perspective of being constantly engaged with high levels of haste, then of course nukes aren't gonna mean much. However, in the odd kited fight (I know, rare right now) DRKs can do things other melee can not when it comes to inflicting ranged damage through their magic. If you wanted to be ambitious, you could also carry a staff or two for the appropriate nukes, which wasn't exactly unheard of for getting the most out of Drain II for SEBW zergs before swapping to your weapon.

Unfortunately, yes, staves are almost too good. RDMs face a similar problem if trying to justify a melee presence, as giving up their potency is grounds for people to tell them they suck at the job. Both jobs deserve some kind of trait that could convert 1H and 2H weapon skill ratings respectively into a raw MACC/MATK value. That way the need to swap is minimized while reducing some of the conflict inherent in being a hybrid class with SE pretty much refusing to mix the needs of such jobs into single gear sets.

[Taint2]

If all you're doing is looking at things from the perspective of being constantly engaged with high levels of haste, then of course nukes aren't gonna mean much. However, in the odd kited fight (I know, rare right now) DRKs can do things other melee can not when it comes to inflicting ranged damage through their magic. If you wanted to be ambitious, you could also carry a staff or two for the appropriate nukes, which wasn't exactly unheard of for getting the most out of Drain II for SEBW zergs before swapping to your weapon.

Unfortunately, yes, staves are almost too good. RDMs face a similar problem if trying to justify a melee presence, as giving up their potency is grounds for people to tell them they suck at the job. Both jobs deserve some kind of trait that could convert 1H and 2H weapon skill ratings respectively into a raw MACC/MATK value. That way the need to swap is minimized while reducing some of the conflict inherent in being a hybrid class with SE pretty much refusing to mix the needs of such jobs into single gear sets.


A kited fight won't have a DRK in the party. The TP a DRK nuke feeds isn't worth the damage and if the TP doesn't matter then you'll be engaged and swinging.

Draining with a stave died when Kclub zerging did. Now you'll want to open with a WS, so such swap isn't going to benefit.

[Urteil]

DRK needs an ability that inflicts Amnesia or Plague, lowered recast on weapon bash, please ask the Dev's about this Camate and put it in our part 2 response.


Weapon Bash should have a lower recast, and DRK should get a trait that occasionally knocks the mob with a strong enfeeble like Amnesia or Plague. Can't believe they're considering giving that to SAM, makes no sense at all.

Nothing really makes sense on Samurai, samurai is the "Japanese" job and therefore gets all the crazy stuff that makes no sense.

This all started when they got Plague on weapon bash.

[StingRay104]

DRK needs an ability that inflicts Amnesia or Plague, lowered recast on weapon bash, please ask the Dev's about this Camate and put it in our part 2 response.



Nothing really makes sense on Samurai, samurai is the "Japanese" job and therefore gets all the crazy stuff that makes no sense.

This all started when they got Plague on weapon bash.

Cept Y/G/K all have enfeebs on them, and from what I read it sounded as tho they were gonna continue this with newer ws's or redo some older ones to create this possibility. However if they flat out give sam amnesia and plague as anything other than ws's or blade bash, then I'd agree with you. As for the first part of your post I agree completely, we need lower recast on WB and we need the spells plague and amnesia. Also another response from Camate is much needed.

[Yugl]

This all started when they got Plague on weapon bash.

Plague makes sense given the era of samurai.

[Chriscoffey]

Are we talking about a rare triple attack or double attack or are we talking about a normalized weaponskill average for catastrophe. I think that is the more applicable question here. I am wondering myself about the dark updates.

[Urteil]

Plague makes sense given the era of samurai.

Plague on Weapon Bash makes more sense, given the era of Dirty European Medieval people.


The Black Plague, I could have sworn that happened in England.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You would be partially right because it is thought to have originated in China.

A Black Knight using Dark Magic would be an abomination in Medieval England in the first place.

[Soidisant]

I've never seen Cata do 3-5K... >_>

It definitely can inside Abyssea although it's usually relying on something like souleater or a double/triple attack. Hell, even outside Abyssea it can hit that sort of damage.

4388 on Sarameya (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/J-Cestrade/cata2.png)
3510 on Tyger (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/J-Cestrade/cata.png)

That Sarameya one is even pretty much unbuffed. Only had on a Red Curry Bun as Last Resort and Souleater were still down from the previous pop and wasn't getting minuets/chaos roll etc.

Of course that isn't average damage (Average was a little over 2k) unlike the WAR's who were throwing consistent 3-5k Ukko's at them.

[Urteil]

You would be partially right because it is thought to have originated in China.

A Black Knight using Dark Magic would be an abomination in Medieval England in the first place.


It seemed to happen a lot in Fairy tales, King Arthur etc, magic and sorcery and all that.



So an Eastern warrior known for their sense of Honor and following Bushido getting black magic-esque abilities does?





Bottom line Samurai getting plague or anything darkness related is stupid.

[Mightyg]

This whole plague argument is really stupid.

Nukes should definitely get overhauled to be reasonable damage/give good occult acumen returns. Drk mp pools are small enough as is, nuking should be an asset to drk, not a waste of space in the spell menu. This should not be dependent on a job ability, especially one that costs more mp.

[Malacite]

This whole plague argument is really stupid.


Care to explain why? DRK is for all intents and purposes, a terrorist/sadomasochist. They're the freaking embodiment of Black (See: Magic the Gathering).


So plague fits perfectly with their theme of pain and sacrifice and tormenting your opponents. They already have bio, poison, and all kinds of absorption spells that sap the strength of their enemies, so why not plague & terror as well?

[Leonlionheart]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/

Dark Knight doesn't live up to its name

[Quetzacoatl]

Highest I have done with my basics (RR, VV, GN) was 4531 or around there, now I am sure I can get higher with the GC added in, and of course thats not the Norm.

Cata should hit for like 9999 damage :)

How often does the 2.5x attacks hidden effect proc? If it's a low rate then a Caladbolg would more likely catch up in DoT from riding Aftermath.



It definitely can inside Abyssea although it's usually relying on something like souleater or a double/triple attack. Hell, even outside Abyssea it can hit that sort of damage.

4388 on Sarameya (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/J-Cestrade/cata2.png)
3510 on Tyger (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/J-Cestrade/cata.png)

That Sarameya one is even pretty much unbuffed. Only had on a Red Curry Bun as Last Resort and Souleater were still down from the previous pop and wasn't getting minuets/chaos roll etc.

Of course that isn't average damage (Average was a little over 2k) unlike the WAR's who were throwing consistent 3-5k Ukko's at them.

Wow, that's impressive. What was this person wearing (or rather, what were you wearing if you're the name in the Screenshot) for Cata? It's a shame it can't constantly do that much damage.

[Concerned4FFxi]

The only thing i can see the reduce tp gain for increase damage ability being used is similiar to how some drk use souleater right before a big weapon skill and then cancel the ability immediatly after the weapon skill.

[Taint2]

How often does the 2.5x attacks hidden effect proc? If it's a low rate then a Caladbolg would more likely catch up in DoT from riding Aftermath.

Wow, that's impressive. What was this person wearing (or rather, what were you wearing if you're the name in the Screenshot) for Cata? It's a shame it can't constantly do that much damage.

Relic proc is around 7%. But a CataAM build will have more DA and a 5hit that solos Darkness quite often. A cata build will also have around 80 more acc in gear.

[Soidisant]

Wow, that's impressive. What was this person wearing (or rather, what were you wearing if you're the name in the Screenshot) for Cata? It's a shame it can't constantly do that much damage.

My WS set is

Apocalypse
Rose Strap
--
Bomb Core
Twilight Helm
Ganesha's Mala
Brutal Earring
Bale Earring
Augmented DA/STP E Body
Khthonios Gloves (Ideally aiming for Augmented P Hands)
Spiral Ring
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle
Shadow Belt
Calmecac Trousers
Ace's Leggings (Have to WS in these to keep 5 hit)

Cata is okayish against older content but still outclassed by Empy's. And it's fairly useless on newer higher tier NM's. There's basically no point me bothering to hit T4 Voidwatch mobs or Abyssea NM's with it.

I think the most depressing thing was seeing Apocalypse instantly outclassed by a fresh WAR 90 with an 85 Ukon using AH gear with ~150 Greataxe skill. It's still a good weapon but just one that pales in comparison to some Empy's.

There's always the chance that this will be rectified when/if they buff Relics. If it isn't then oh well, no sense crying over it.

[Maxwell]

I just wanted to throw my two cents in here on an issue that has been mildly overlooked. Granted deviates a tad from the content discussed thus far. As much stated about the direction and true nature of Dark Knight I do believe that the "Greatest Blade" also strikes a true meaning in the regards or PLD/DRK on the same coin. Now even with all the attack, JA's, and spells to enhance ourselves there is a core that still stunts all of this. Weaponskills are a core aspect of any job that aspires to have DPS comparable to the top notch DD jobs. When I look at the math for the Weaponskills Dark Knight has for Scythe (Which is the weapon I choose to use and Like to).

Our primary WS for damage is Guillotine which is thus in Mathmatical form: Multiplier - 0.875 (Across the Board TP 100-300) & Modifiers - STR/MND 30%.

Ok now as much as I've used it and played with other jobs in this game even PRIOR to Abyssea. This WS was outdone 90% of the time in the sense of output. It doesn't even make sense. So for every hit of the WS it does 0.875 of the base of the attack + STR/MND 30% Modifiers? So what you're saying is my single attack is better than 1 hit of my WS? Even with the modifiers it doesn't make sense. Raging Rush for a Warrior has a multiplier of 1.0. They get full return for every hit of thier WS so why don't we get it? Hell even Samurai on every one of thier good WS the Multiplier is ABOVE 1.0 even if they are single hit WS they do 1.5625 with just 100% TP? Not including Modifiers? Where did the math go awry here. Even with Dark Knight having Tier 5 Attack Bonus it's not even close in making up for the multipliers that make our DD Capability Lack Luster.

Now let me shine a little light on a Weaponskill I would have loved to see take over Guillotine.

Insurgency: Multipliers 0.5/0.75/1.0 & Modifiers STR/INT 20%

Where did this go horribly wrong? So I get half a normal hit with 100% TP? With shitty % on modifiers? No wonder it's so awful. The "Appears to be Heavily Modified by Attack" is a joke. Why does it matter if it's heavily modified by attack when it doesn't even do half a normal hits worth of damage at 100% TP? Even Penta Thrust will do more damage than this.

Let's start more at a simple basis for improving Dark Knight here. If we had WS's that had Multipliers/Modifiers that were worth a damn maybe we could compete with a Samurai, Warrior, or even Dragoon for that matter. As far as I'm concerned I'm a Dark Knight to the Core but I haven't touched it hardly since Abyssea came out and I've been forced to play Warrior to even do something in the game. I utilize it in every aspect I play including mage style which is rare and far imbetween however I cringe everytime I see how much my Warrior does in normal hits/WS's in general in and outside of Abyssea. I can hardly reach the 2k mark in Abyssea on Dark Knight where as I constantly break it on Warrior. Even with the magical aspect our magic is limited. There are a staggering amout of monsters that are either immune or highly resistant to Dark Magic. It does not give us the edge we need to stand up to the numbers and versatility in combination that other jobs put forth.

I've been waiting for a new weaponskill or an update to improve these simple things. With no avail and no sign of changing this I still believe that on this base level as a DD we will not compare. Until there is a such a time as either making our magical aspect enrich our DPS capability to be able to balance with our Normal Melee/WS we will be outshined as a viable and stable DPS source. I will still play it to the very end. Born into the Grave.

[Soidisant]

Guillotine is 0.875 modifier yes but only on the first hit. All the other hits are 1.0. So it is effectively 3.875 if all 4 hits connect with 25% STR and 25% MND modifiers.

Raging Rush is 1.0 on the first hit. So 3.0 total if all 3 hits land. It has a 35% STR modifier.

The only reason Raging Rush is better than Guillotine is because it can crit whilst Guillotine cannot. If they both could crit then Guillotine would outperform it.

Also, your comparison to SAM WS'es is off. It wasn't their base modifier that made them so good pre-Abyssea. It was the fact that they had a pseudo-attack boost. And we already have WS'es similar to SAM's Yuki/Gekko/Kasha in Spinning Slash/Ground Strike. SAM's just outperformed DRK's because of other factors (Overwhelm, TP'ing more often, having access to a more offensive sub)


We could do with a good solid Scythe WS I agree. On the Greatsword side we're fine with Torcleaver. The problem wasn't really that Scythe WS'es were bad, it's that the WS'es they added for other jobs were ridiculously good. And inside Abyssea the problem is that certain Atmas make crit WS'es godly and DRK lacks a crit WS.

If you take Empy's WS'es out of the picture then outside of Abyssea we aren't really any worse off than other jobs. Even including Empyrean WS'es we're decent using Torcleaver.

[Camate]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Scarlet Delirium* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-Attri* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III　DRK Lv92
Break　DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Scarlet Delirium*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-Attri* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
*Updated with in-development terminology at 7:18pm PDT

[Atoreis]

If I understand this right and after taking some damage you will have 20% damage boost for duration of the ability then it's full win.

Absorb buffs might also be great but I wonder about it's accuracy vs high lvl mobs.

[Urteil]

This is all incredible news!

Will the increase in magic attack power effect our most important spells, Drain and Aspir?

Could we get some details on how Absorb-ATB works exactly?
Does the target (I hope so) lose the status effect absorbed?
What can and it can not absorb?
Can I recast it to absorb another status effect, meaning if I cast it again I know have two.

(Please make this spell on a lenient recast timer.)




Do we get the full effect, the effect left?
Is it based off the mob/target casting it's power, so basically its just a transfusion?

If I absorb Shell IV off a target will it overwrite lower tiers?

I.E: What happens if it is absorbed of a Red Mage with Composure on do I get the enhanced duration/effect?

[Karbuncle]

It'll probably be like Aura Steal (THF Merit) except better and on a shorter timer with a higher chance to absorb the buff.

Seeing as how Aura Steal is "Far too broken to be on less than a 5 minute timer"... Absorb-ATB will likely be on a 1 minute timer or less. But to be realistic maybe 2 minutes or so.

And if i recall right, You steal the Effect as it is, Duration/etc. Meaning if you stole a Composure you'll get the same effects from it as the person who used it would have. Could be wrong.

[Leonlionheart]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Readily Rearm* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-ATB* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III　DRK Lv92
Break　DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Readily Rearm*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-ATB* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)

This is pretty much what I want to see for DRK, though IMO it should get Break before BLM.

Besides that, Readily Rearm sounds pretty awesome for zerging!

[Sama]

We tested it out…
Readily Rearm*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)


I hope the dev is adjusting the enmity control for the tanks as well.

[SpankWustler]

I don't play Dark Knight and I doubt I ever will, but reading about that stuff brought a state of partial turgidity upon me.

Useful magic and abilities that remain within the theme of the job. Perfect. I can only hope the enhancements for jobs I actually play are similar to this.

[Unctgtg]

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Readily Rearm* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-ATB* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III　DRK Lv92
Break　DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Readily Rearm*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-ATB* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)

First you bring me Vanilla Ice, now you bring me even greater tidings. Are you the Drk Knight Angel?

[Unctgtg]

Also doing that and another 20% in WS damage on my relic WS, I do approve and probably another 25-50% damage increase from the Trials, OH MY.

[Unctgtg]

Absorb-ATB* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Oh my oh my oh my

[Coldbrand]

If that absorb attribute works really well then considering aura steal already does too can you look into buffing the accuracy of voracious trunk? Never works.

[Leonlionheart]

If that absorb attribute works really well then considering aura steal already does too can you look into buffing the accuracy of voracious trunk? Never works.

Doesn't Osmosis do the same thing, but also drains HP?

[SpankWustler]

Yeah, Osmosis is basically Voracious Trunk +1. It still has accuracy issues compared to most spells and abilities that remove effects, but it has normal spell-casting range rather than near-sighted Blue Magic range.

It beats Aura Steal, though. Aura Steal loses by default thanks to the five minute timer.

Edit: The main concern I foresee with Absorb-ATB would be casting time, since it's both used to dispel and used by Dark Knight. Hopefully it will have a very short casting time, regardless of the recast.

[Leonlionheart]

casting time is what would bother me honestly, since it has a large factor on DPS, which is DRK's main attraction.

[Frost]

All welcome updates, but a little concerned with Readily Rearm, will this be a stance like hasso/seigan/misery? Or will it be a 30 second duration ability where you'd only really benefit if you had it up when you got nailed by chance?

[Camate]

First you bring me Vanilla Ice, now you bring me even greater tidings. Are you the Drk Knight Angel?

I have many, many names.

[Sparthos]

Doesn't Osmosis do the same thing, but also drains HP?

Yeah, Osmosis is an improvement on Voracious.

[Selzak]

Absorb-ATB is exactly the kind of thing DRK should have, I'm very impressed with pretty much everything that's been posted today. Looks like they really did put some thought into the job adjustments/updates.

[ThaiChi]

Will damage inflicted by Souleater count toward this new JA?

[Urteil]

The reason that Aura Steal is considered "overpowered" is because its on the same timer as Steal itself.

SE is stating that steal being on a lower timer is overpowered not Aura steal.

While I disagree and feel that Steal should and could be lowered to a much lower recast while keeping aura steal on it, the stealing buff effect is not the reason that SE deems it overpowered.





The DRK version of stealing buffs should have the highest accuracy of any form in the game, because we have an entire useless spell line that is designed for stealing the statistics of an enemy.

And its about time it was made useful.

[Kirschy]

Absorb-Attri* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Any word on how Liberator's "Enhance Absorb" will affect this?!

Also, any way you can tell us if the attack boost from Scarlet Delirium is in straight Attack+ or a extra damage, kind of like Souleater or Overwhelm?

[Zoner]

We tested it out…
Scarlet Delirium*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Does this mean we have to stay at HP≤50% to have a 20% increase in dmg output?

If it's cumulative damage taken, at what point does it begin to accumulate?

[Seriha]

Always felt DRK should've gotten Dispel. Absorbing a buff is pretty much that and then some, so yay on that. Not really sure what to think of the other JA, though. If it's a scaling damage multiplier, cool. If it's just an ATK/MATK buff, kinda not as good. Actual duration and recast timers will also factor in to end opinion. Something that last 1m with 5m recast would make me sad. 3m duration with same 5m recast would be tolerable. Being able to keep it on full-time would be nice, though the bane of healers that spazz over yellow HP.

[Atoreis]

Does this mean we have to stay at HP≤50% to have a 20% increase in dmg output?

If it's cumulative damage taken, at what point does it begin to accumulate?

You turn it on ( the ability ) and you take damage which makes you do more damage. If you take enough damage the +damage you do will cap at some point. Currently unknown is: recast of ability and duration of both ability and damage boost.

I think some ppl misunderstood it, you wont need to stay at 50% of your HP, you just need to take damage that is around half of your max hp to get around +20%damage.
It's also no attack + but damage%+. If that would be attack they would wrote "After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your attack rises by 100!" and they didn't.

[Zoner]

You turn it on ( the ability ) and you take damage which makes you do more damage. If you take enough damage the +damage you do will cap at some point. Currently unknown is: recast of ability and duration of both ability and damage boost.

I'm just wondering if we can be cured after taking damage w/o losing some of the effect.

[Phen]

The reason that Aura Steal is considered "overpowered" is because its on the same timer as Steal itself.

SE is stating that steal being on a lower timer is overpowered not Aura steal.

While I disagree and feel that Steal should and could be lowered to a much lower recast while keeping aura steal on it, the stealing buff effect is not the reason that SE deems it overpowered.





The DRK version of stealing buffs should have the highest accuracy of any form in the game, because we have an entire useless spell line that is designed for stealing the statistics of an enemy.

And its about time it was made useful.

We asked for aura steal to be on a separate timer. They said that was overpowered. So yep.

[Atoreis]

I'm just wondering if we can be cured after taking damage w/o losing some of the effect.

Ofc you can lol. If that would be the case they would wrote "when having half of max HP , your damage output increase by over 20%!" and ability wouldn't be "Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power." but something like "Damage boost based on your current HP". Seriously guys searching for the second bottom that desperately almost sounds like paranoia :D

[Zoner]

Sorry I'm just a pessimist, i'm expecting SE to screw up our updates with long recast, short durations, or stupid stipulations

[Urteil]

Sorry I'm just a pessimist, i'm expecting SE to screw up our updates with long recast, short durations, or stupid stipulations

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Soidisant]

Those buffs are potentially great depending on the execution. Hopefully Scarlet Delirium is triggerable by stuff like Souleater/Dread Spikes/Berserker's Torque and has a wortwhile duration.

[Anathiel]

One thing I had a thought about for drk...all the dev talk about ele weapon skills....well, war is gonna get something that controls type of weapon dmg (slash, pierce, blunt) why can't drk get an ability that let's you control the element of your weapon skill?

[Zoner]

One thing I had a thought about for drk...all the dev talk about ele weapon skills....well, war is gonna get something that controls type of weapon dmg (slash, pierce, blunt) why can't drk get an ability that let's you control the element of your weapon skill?

Doesn't really matter what element your WS is doing if they're all just junk damage anyway..

[Anathiel]

Doesn't really matter what element your WS is doing if they're all just junk damage anyway..

Good for proc's....assuming they don't want procs to go away. I wasn't worried about dmg, I was worried about utility.

[Finuve]

if Souleater health loss can trigger this new ability then O.o

[Zoner]

Scarlet Delirium* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.
Would it be too much to ask for the boost to magic attack to be even greater then 20% since DRKs have no native Magic Attack Bonus Traits?

[JovialRat]

Sorry I'm just a pessimist, i'm expecting SE to screw up our updates with long recast, short durations, or stupid stipulations

i fear this as well.

[uptempo]

I love the sound of the drk update coming i really hope it lives up to my expectation.

[Anathiel]

So, anybody else have a thought on choosing your element for a weapon skill?

[StingRay104]

So, anybody else have a thought on choosing your element for a weapon skill?

The war damage shift ability is most likely gonna have no effect on ws's. As for the select an element arguement I think the same, theres no real reason to shift the elements of elemental ws's due to the fact that they are all equally useless except when amber or brewing. So I say the idea is pointless.

[Anathiel]

The war damage shift ability is most likely gonna have no effect on ws's. As for the select an element arguement I think the same, theres no real reason to shift the elements of elemental ws's due to the fact that they are all equally useless except when amber or brewing. So I say the idea is pointless.

So, you're saying its pointless if it has no effect on weapon skills? But if it did, then would it be useful?

[Armangetto]

Some great job adjustmets for us, but I thought we were going to get dark magic fast cast and absorbs were not going to decay anymore? Theres no mention of either in the job adjusments posted this morning.

[StingRay104]

So, you're saying its pointless if it has no effect on weapon skills? But if it did, then would it be useful?

I said it was pointless either way. Changing the element on an elemental ws isn't gonna get enough for it to be considered a worthwhile fix. Also when it comes to ws's they tend to do their own little thing IE set damage types despite weapon having different damage type like twilight scythe, birdbanes, and joyeuse. As I stated in my previous post the concept of switching elements on elemental ws's is pointless and I certain SE's response would be, "Sorry we can't do that due to problems with the staff going to Bermuda.... I mean working hard on FF vs XIII." You can put whatever excuse in there you want and please do.

[Quetzacoatl]

Some great job adjustmets for us, but I thought we were going to get dark magic fast cast and absorbs were not going to decay anymore? Theres no mention of either in the job adjusments posted this morning.


*The above content is still under development is subject to change before the official release.

There's probably going to be a part two to all this somewhere. I hope. >.>

I'd also like to see DRK and BLMs get a nuking line similar to Banish/Holy, especially now that WHM is getting Holy 2.

[Armangetto]

Your probably right about there being a part 2 to job adjustments. I didn't see anything for WAR or MNK, wich is good >_>;

[Anathiel]

I said it was pointless either way. Changing the element on an elemental ws isn't gonna get enough for it to be considered a worthwhile fix. Also when it comes to ws's they tend to do their own little thing IE set damage types despite weapon having different damage type like twilight scythe, birdbanes, and joyeuse. As I stated in my previous post the concept of switching elements on elemental ws's is pointless and I certain SE's response would be, "Sorry we can't do that due to problems with the staff going to Bermuda.... I mean working hard on FF vs XIII." You can put whatever excuse in there you want and please do.

Earlier I had put in a post that the ele changing wasn't about dmg, it was about utility. Right now the only jobs wanted in abyssea are ones that proc well, giving drks the ability to change their ws's element gives them more utility and would lead to a lot more NM parties. Granted, if SE goes away from abyssea, yeah it'll be stupid and worthless....but it would be amazing for giving drk some use other than dmg.

[Atoreis]

Good for proc's....assuming they don't want procs to go away. I wasn't worried about dmg, I was worried about utility.

I think You completely don't know how staggers work lol.

Stagger in abyssea are related to 13 elemental WS and not to element of them. Changing your WS damage type to fire won't let you trigger !! when it is Red Lotus Blade for example.

Stagger in VW works the same as the ones in Abyssea (triggering part, not effect of stagger ofc) but the pool of WSs that work is much larger.

Stagger in Dynamis is triggered by any WS in the game and every time you do WS it s a % chance for stagger.

[Zoner]

I think You completely don't know how staggers work lol.

Stagger in abyssea are related to 13 elemental WS and not to element of them. Changing your WS damage type to fire won't let you trigger !! when it is Red Lotus Blade for example.

Stagger in VW works the same as the ones in Abyssea (triggering part, not effect of stagger ofc) but the pool of WSs that work is much larger.

Stagger in Dynamis is triggered by any WS in the game and every time you do WS it s a % chance for stagger.

^

Atoreis is right on the money~

[Anathiel]

Well, if that's the case drk is damn near useless. I will keep with war and nin and leave drk in the closet. If I was wrong about the ele proc then yeah, the idea is worthless. But if it could be worked into something that could cause red procs, then I think it was worth mentioning.

[Quetzacoatl]

Well, if that's the case drk is damn near useless. I will keep with war and nin and leave drk in the closet. If I was wrong about the ele proc then yeah, the idea is worthless. But if it could be worked into something that could cause red procs, then I think it was worth mentioning.

/NIN for DRK gives 2 Swords, 1 GreatSword, 1 Scythe, 1 Dagger and 1 Club Proc. Considering you have a WAR (Raiden Thrust), NIN or MNK take care of the rest, I'd say that isn't as useless you might think. GOTTA WORK IT FASTER, SON!

[Anathiel]

I look the fool. I'll go back to my corner now.

[Quetzacoatl]

Don't forget the hat.

[Anathiel]

But, even then...it would still be pretty useful if it could be used for red proc'ing and fit the lore/description of the job. A little, y'know? A lot more convenient than spending forever skilling up multiple weapons and having to waste inventory slots, and even then who knows what the future content will be. Maybe ele weapon skills come back in a big way. Either way, yeah drk can do a lot of red procs now, and is it needed? No. But it would be useful if they could use it for the proc system, or maybe some future ele ws system. That's all. /grabs hat and walks off

[Urteil]

Would it be too much to ask for the boost to magic attack to be even greater then 20% since DRKs have no native Magic Attack Bonus Traits?

Stop stealing what I'm going to say out of my head D:

[Kagato]

I think this update just made me rethink my time management.

[Cruentus]

Don’t fret dark knights! These example adjustments are just that…examples. It doesn’t mean that every single thing is going to be implemented as stated. All of your suggestions and opinions on these concepts will be relayed to the development team and they will of course consider them when actually creating the adjustments to be implemented. Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

I honestly doubt that you're even listening, let alone know what the hell you're doing. That goes for the developers, too.


Howdy! In regards to all of the feedback and questions we have been receiving, we got some additional information about the future dark knight from the development team.

Make it so we can deal large amounts of damage proportionate to the amount of risk taken.
Just as shown in the concept, we will be making adjustments so that you can temporarily deal larger amounts of damage compared to other jobs.

Include “attackers specialized in absorption” to the concept and make adjustments based on this.
Don’t think that we will not be considering things that were not mentioned in the concept.The core of adjustments will be what is outlined in the concepts, but we will be making adjustments to enhance and spruce them up.

We are aware of your requests for changes/additions revolving around absorption and we are looking into new ideas for it besides just Drain, Aspir, and the other existing absorb-type spells.

Get rid of the Souleater resistance on NMs.
This will really depend on balance adjustments between the stats of Souleater itself and a monster’s strength. For right now, from a balance perspective we believe it is difficult to get rid of the resistance.

Add an ability that adds to your attack when taking damage.
In the next version update we will be adding an ability that raises your attack power when taking damage. The effect can be used with both physical and magical damage.

Add a job trait that raises magic attack.
We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.

Increase our parry skill so that we can receive a larger benefit from Tactical Parry.
First as an overall adjustment, we will be revamping the difficulty of increasing parry skill. After this, the next step will be skill adjustments for each class.

Add Fast Cast specific for Dark Magic.
We will look into it. We will make it so dark knight is the most affluent with Stun, Drain, and other Dark Magic.

Revamp the MP cost and recast time on Dread Spikes.
We will be grouping this with the Dark Magic adjustments written above, so we are thinking to address this through Dark Magic Fast Cast.

Make it so it’s possible to absorb MP with Aspir from enemies that do not have MP.
It would be kind of strange to absorb something that does not exist, so if we were to adjust Aspir we would be looking into it from a different direction.

Increase the effect of absorb spells.
For absorb-type spells we will first be looking into removing the time decay of stats that were absorbed. After this, we plan on making adjustments to the effects.

Add Stun II.
When considering the current properties and potency of Stun, we are not thinking of adding another stun at this time.

Oh, sure, all of this sounds all nice and pretty, but you're too damn slow. We should have had all of that ages ago, and you're just now thinking of it? A dark knight should be able to outpace any other melee job at any given moment, even if it costs an arm or two. Our dark magic should be cast more quickly and learned more quickly compared to any other job, which begs the question, "Why the fuck do red mages learn Bio III and dark knights don't?!" There are several things you're doing wrong, and Bio III is just one of them. Currently, warriors and monks outpace dark knights every damn time, and that's just pitiful. Black mages Stun better than we do, thanks to their job abilities and equipment. Our Absorb spells are stupid, Dread Spikes doesn't last long enough (even with bale armor), and quite frankly, I'm tired of it all.


Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Scarlet Delirium* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-Attri* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III　DRK Lv92
Break　DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Scarlet Delirium*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-Attri* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
*Updated with in-development terminology at 7:18pm PDT

Okay, this is a decent start, but it should have happened long ago rather than today. Personally, I'd like the job to be more edgy. Give us Eye for an Eye as a job trait, increasing our Attack even further the closer we are to death, and/or for every problematic status effect on us. Maybe then I'll renew my subscription, but until you start treating this job right, I'm leaving Vana'diel.

[Soidisant]

There is nothing wrong with Dread Spikes. It's effectively a 1000 damage stoneskin + 1000 Damage DoT for 78 MP that is on a 90 sec recast at 50% Haste. That's only 30 seconds of downtime if it isn't wearing off through damage. And if it is wearing off through damage, you just did ~1K damage for 78 MP whilst defending yourself.

The only negative thing about it is that it doesn't block TP moves and is resisted by some mobs.

If you made it any better than it already is then it would be ridiculous.

[Quetzacoatl]

But, even then...it would still be pretty useful if it could be used for red proc'ing and fit the lore/description of the job. A little, y'know? A lot more convenient than spending forever skilling up multiple weapons and having to waste inventory slots, and even then who knows what the future content will be. Maybe ele weapon skills come back in a big way. Either way, yeah drk can do a lot of red procs now, and is it needed? No. But it would be useful if they could use it for the proc system, or maybe some future ele ws system. That's all. /grabs hat and walks off

I agree DRK doesn't have much variety as much as WAR does for procing, but usually the way I go about it is I usually take care of sword, great sword, scythe, dagger (if /nin), or club if someone in my group is using something else that I'm not able to cover. Usually I fly through procs pretty quickly. So I find it nice to be able to help WARs and NINs with some of the weapons that matter.

[Urteil]

There is nothing wrong with Dread Spikes. It's effectively a 1000 damage stoneskin + 1000 Damage DoT for 78 MP that is on a 90 sec recast at 50% Haste. That's only 30 seconds of downtime if it isn't wearing off through damage. And if it is wearing off through damage, you just did ~1K damage for 78 MP whilst defending yourself.

The only negative thing about it is that it doesn't block TP moves and is resisted by some mobs.

If you made it any better than it already is then it would be ridiculous.


Needs to cast faster.


Occultation anyone.

[Malacite]

How about lowering the cost of Dread Spikes too?

78 MP is a bit much. 40~50 would be plenty?

[Urteil]

The one minute duration sucks too, make it five minutes like stone-skin then one half of that argument might be plausible.

[Urteil]

@ Camate

How will Bale Flanchard +2 "Enhances Nether Void" affect Absorb-Attri?


And is absorb-attri more accurate than most forms of buff absorption?

What is the recast on it?

[Kojo]

Hey, at some point after the cap increase, why not have a Scythe WS that functions like Sanguine Blade, DRK has a bit of a vampiric nature, and I seem to stay at about 30% HP. Sanguine Scythe, maybe?

I was also in a Dom OPs on Bluffalo and after being Plagued and Paralyzed I started thinking.. What if DRK had a Job Ability that put a debuff on the enemy? Or maybe a Contagion Transfer-type trait that made Dread Spikes and Endark occasionally pass a harmful status effect on to the enemy.

[Leonlionheart]

Hey, at some point after the cap increase, why not have a Scythe WS that functions like Sanguine Blade, DRK has a bit of a vampiric nature, and I seem to stay at about 30% HP. Sanguine Scythe, maybe?

I was also in a Dom OPs on Bluffalo and after being Plagued and Paralyzed I started thinking.. What if DRK had a Job Ability that put a debuff on the enemy? Or maybe a Contagion Transfer-type trait that made Dread Spikes and Endark occasionally pass a harmful status effect on to the enemy.

Catastrophe wants to have a word with you

[Kojo]

Catastrophe wants to have a word with you

You mean the WS that costs like 200-400mil or else you can only use it ever 13 WSs? That one, right?

[Korpg]

You mean the WS that costs like 200-400mil or else you can only use it ever 13 WSs? That one, right?

....you serious?

[Urteil]

He has a point.

They gave sword one.

Perhaps they could give Great Sword one too.




I'm 50% through stage 5 to Apocalypse and I agree its kind of silly that the "Absorb" class can only do this through a relic WS.

The relic WS is very efficient and attatched to a very nice weapon.


Make a Greatsword or Scythe WS with 40-50% return at 100% like the Sword WS.

[Kojo]

He has a point.

They gave sword one.

Perhaps they could give Great Sword one too.




I'm 50% through stage 5 to Apocalypse and I agree its kind of silly that the "Absorb" class can only do this through a relic WS.

The relic WS is very efficient and attatched to a very nice weapon.


Make a Greatsword or Scythe WS with 40-50% return at 100% like the Sword WS.

I suppose it takes a DRK to see my point, eh? :D

[StingRay104]

Too bad all your gonna get replies from are Korpg and Leonlionheart.

[Kojo]

Too bad all your gonna get replies from are Korpg and Leonlionheart.

Leon made a good point; there IS a Scythe WS with a drain effect. But it's a Relic WS, unless you get an Apoc, you can only use it every 13 WSs on a scythe that really isn't that great, you can get much better, like an Absolution +2 (Fire #1), a Redemption, or even a Twilight Scythe. If you don't already have an Apoc, it's probably not worth it ATM, which is sad. You can get a Redemption easier and faster than Apoc. But I'm not trying to talk Scythes here, especially when I use a lolPlaga till I finish Absolution +2 or get a Twilight. I've just noticed that if you play DRK like I do (using my JAs) you end up in the red fast and usually have anyone with cures and waltzes cure-bombing you while your Drains are down. Then there are the WHMs that just don't cure you, for some reason. I'm not saying it should be a WS to spam, but it would be a nice help to the WHMs.

As for Korpg, I don't pay any attention to anything he says.

[SpankWustler]

Then there are the WHMs that just don't cure you, for some reason. I'm not saying it should be a WS to spam, but it would be a nice help to the WHMs.

I keep seeing phrases like this pop up in any topic related to Dark Knight.

While, sadly, it is a situation that occurs, I don't think "Sometimes a healer has the mental capacity of watery, under-seasoned mashed potatoes." is something to take into account when adjusting any job. It shouldn't be the responsibility of anyone but the incompetent individual(s) to make up for a shortage of competence among a healing entourage, and below-average-at-best players shouldn't be taken into account when designing elements of FFXI. Especially when those players aren't even on the job in question.

Draining HP is how Dark Knight survives while solo and drains match the aesthetics of the job, so I suppose it's all the same in the end. This still bugs me, though. I guess seeing "I want something changed because this idiot is an idiot and does idiotic things in idiotic ways at idiotic times in idiotic places while folks hitting things with things die to a Very Tough lizard's auto-attacks." for the fortieth time just made me snap.

[Kojo]

I keep seeing phrases like this pop up in any topic related to Dark Knight.

While, sadly, it is a situation that occurs, I don't think "Sometimes a healer has the mental capacity of watery, under-seasoned mashed potatoes." is something to take into account when adjusting any job. It shouldn't be the responsibility of anyone but the incompetent individual(s) to make up for a shortage of competence among a healing entourage, and below-average-at-best players shouldn't be taken into account when designing elements of FFXI. Especially when those players aren't even on the job in question.

Draining HP is how Dark Knight survives while solo and drains match the aesthetics of the job, so I suppose it's all the same in the end. This still bugs me, though. I guess seeing "I want something changed because this idiot is an idiot and does idiotic things in idiotic ways at idiotic times in idiotic places while folks hitting things with things die to a Very Tough lizard's auto-attacks." for the fortieth time just made me snap.

It's not the only reason I think we should have a natural Draining WS, in such cases, the WHM in question should probably be talked to. Usually, I give a hint "I think we need healers."

[StingRay104]

Wow my statement was taken completely outta context, and with little regard to do with the statement. Let me clarify Korpg = Smn, War, Blm. How do I know this, cuz I know him. Leonlionheart well just look at his sig and you can understand him. As for anything DRK related if you wanna discuss DRK related issues this thread, and for that matter any thread in the general discussion section is constantly frequented by people who know very little about what the topic is and just enjoy commenting on threads in an attempt to make themselves feel greater than they actually are, and thus they should be completely ignored on all issues.

[SpankWustler]

It's not the only reason I think we should have a natural Draining WS, in such cases, the WHM in question should probably be talked to. Usually, I give a hint "I think we need healers."

Yeah, it wasn't really a comment on your post specifically or anything. Sorry if I gave you that idea.

I just really dislike the effect that someone who can't figure out how to cast a Cure spell can have on other another person's good time.

[Dart]

I think this update just made me rethink my time management.

most productive post in this thread?

hey it's possible.

[Leonlionheart]

herp derp i have one job now

instead of 11

also, on my way to Caladbolg

[Zoner]

I got accepted to the test server today, so naturally as a DRK main I wanted to see this new ability SE gave us, so here's some info on it

Dark Knight

Scarlet Delirium (Lv. 95)
*Channels damage taken into enhanced attack and magic attack.
*Recast 3 minutes
*Duration 1 minute


Notice the duration in bold, ya 1 min....three words I got for this:
So.Much.FAIL.

[Chriscoffey]

I got accepted to the test server today, so naturally as a DRK main I wanted to see this new ability SE gave us, so here's some info on it

Dark Knight
Scarlet Delirium (Lv. 95)
*Channels damage taken into enhanced attack and magic attack.
*Recast 3 minutes
*Duration 1 minute


Notice the duration in bold, ya 1 min....three words I got for this:
So.Much.FAIL.
LOL Yeah well go figure. Dark knights for the most part come to expect this let down behavior from SE updates.

[Soidisant]

Seems fair to me really. It was never going to be something that we were able to fulltime and it's still a ~6.7% damage increase.

Under the same buffs outside Abyssea I get that as pegging Apocalypse about 10-15% behind an Ukon which seems reasonable to me. We trade off a bit of damage for access to our spells. It wouldn't really be fair if we out DD'ed WAR and then got spells on top.

[Finuve]

any damage increase now depends on us managing to take damage during that 1 minute window, rather than having a decent amount of time to spread that across

against a lot of NMs itll be easy, against others itll be near useless, and in XP/merit itll be useless, dynamis itll be useless

unless you start forcing yourself to take damage, which makes sense, but ull have to do that every three minutes for a measly 1 minute of uptime

[Chriscoffey]

Seems fair to me really. It was never going to be something that we were able to fulltime and it's still a ~6.7% damage increase.

Under the same buffs outside Abyssea I get that as pegging Apocalypse about 10-15% behind an Ukon which seems reasonable to me. We trade off a bit of damage for access to our spells. It wouldn't really be fair if we out DD'ed WAR and then got spells on top.
A warrior was suppose to be a jack of all trades and master of none. A dark knight was to specialize in power and zerg over other DDs but at a cost with their defense and other abilities. That is why when most of us go "all out" if we get hit by anything it kills us faster than another DD type.

[Zoner]

You gotta take in account that part of the 1min will be needed for accumulating damage, so lets say 30secs to lose 50% of ur HP, that leaves 30secs of dealing increased damage. I don't know about yall but i don't lose half of my HP in 30secs...

[Dart]

You gotta take in account that part of the 1min will be needed for accumulating damage, so lets say 30secs to lose 50% of ur HP, that leaves 30secs of dealing increased damage. I don't know about yall but i don't lose half of my HP in 30secs...

To be fair. I usually do if i'm full timing hasso and going balls out.

[Soidisant]

Yeah I generally facetank a lot nowadays but in fairness, I have the luxury of Catastrophe drain. I actually thought it might be prechargeable or something but if not then yeah that reduces its effectiveness significantly as like you say it isn't a full minute of increased damage.

It being hard to proc against trash jobs isn't really a concern for me because they die so fast it won't matter except for e-peen parses. Against anything worthwhile, it should be easy to activate.

And @Chriscoffey, DRK has far more survivability than WAR.

[Chriscoffey]

Yeah I generally facetank a lot nowadays but in fairness, I have the luxury of Catastrophe drain. I actually thought it might be prechargeable or something but if not then yeah that reduces its effectiveness significantly as like you say it isn't a full minute of increased damage.

It being hard to proc against trash jobs isn't really a concern for me because they die so fast it won't matter except for e-peen parses. Against anything worthwhile, it should be easy to activate.

And @Chriscoffey, DRK has far more survivability than WAR.
They have drains/catastrophe HP drain and dread spikes + stun however.. i typically do things with a mage and that alone makes either job survive. For most darks without apocalypse they are going to be waiting on timers and be dead before it even matters. Warriors could potentially throw up defender to at least negate partial damage where dark is already at a loss. The bottom line is just because dark can survive a few more hits has no bearing on the fact they sacrifice their defense and other DD abilities to do way more damage. A mage can will have less trouble curing a warrior than a regular dark when they have their tools in use. I will longer on my warrior than i do on my dark knight taking into account having a mage. I don't really care about doing any mob solo myself for bragging rights. I want efficiency and to kill the best I can. With that being said my warrior with annihilate my dark by at least 2-3x damage.

[Soidisant]

The point is that you said this which is blatantly untrue.


That is why when most of us go "all out" if we get hit by anything it kills us faster than another DD type.

Anything that kills a DRK in that situation kills a WAR too. The difference being that a DRK can potentially prevent it happening whereas all a WAR can do is throw up Defender which probably isn't going to save it.

EDIT: Also an example of this happened today in Ein. Both the Ukon WAR and Masamune SAM died whilst I did not and it wasn't due to it being on them rather than me as we were taking our own mobs. It was because I was able to stun the moves that could have killed me whereas they could not and got doomed/one-shotted.

[Dart]

only thing a war can do is abuse retaliation spam and self sc over and over and kill the mob before it kills you. Drk has far more defensive capability than war does. But for most things those really aren't needed and a war just spamming a better ws (for damage) is better.

[Soidisant]

Oh I don't disagree with that but I'm saying we can't have it all our way. It seems like people expect us to be the best DD in game despite us also being better than most other DD's defensive wise and then getting situational magic on top of that. Granted a lot of people would drop the extras for more damage but we know that won't happen.

We do need something to help us damage wise but outside Abyssea we aren't as far behind as people like to portray us. Inside Abyssea it's purely our lack of a crit WS that hinders us which is more of an issue with certain atmas being ridiculously overpowered imo. Guillotine would have made perfect sense to be a crit WS but it clearly isn't happening and endgame looks to be going away from Abyssea anyway so it's potentially not as relevant for the future.

I just don't think people being unrealistic about what we need helps our cause. I know if one of my employees at work made unreasonable requests I'd just shoot them down whereas if they made semi-reasonable requests I'd be far more likely to consider them or come to a compromise.

[Chriscoffey]

The point is that you said this which is blatantly untrue.



Anything that kills a DRK in that situation kills a WAR too. The difference being that a DRK can potentially prevent it happening whereas all a WAR can do is throw up Defender which probably isn't going to save it.

EDIT: Also an example of this happened today in Ein. Both the Ukon WAR and Masamune SAM died whilst I did not and it wasn't due to it being on them rather than me as we were taking our own mobs. It was because I was able to stun the moves that could have killed me whereas they could not and got doomed/one-shotted.
So your counter is that stun makes dark more powerful to dodge a TP/spell compared to warrior hence we should be significantly weaker DD. I concur about the defensive part but my relevant point was the damage portion of the this discussion. Warrior was the do everything job where dark was the i kill myself but kill you job. Warrior could sub dark knight and stun and weapon bash to stun mobs. If your X hit build doesn't require /sam then its a viable option to counter the stunning defense.

[Zatias]

Wow. That ability was potentially incredible. Why am I still shocked at SE's lack of common sense? D;

[Malacite]

To be fair. I usually do if i'm full timing hasso and going balls out.

DRK still use Hasso?

[Dart]

when LR is down fuck yes we do. apoc more so to make the drain more useful. I pretty much never take it off even when LR is up and i'm using apoc. With caladbolg it depends. If I have my godly whm i still pretty much fulltime hasso lol. extra str is extra str.

[Malacite]

Eh, I think I'd rather have the extra HP, Berserk & Aggressor (gogo +50% attack bonus) and double attack. It's only 1:10 (for me anyway) that LE is down, so big deal.

Or even /SAM and full-time Seigan, especially if you're going to be taking hate.

[StingRay104]

I love how everyone compares a DRK using having dreadspikes on and stun available to a war going all out in ultra dd mode as a viable option for who has the most defensive capabilities, its kinda like the arguement I had with Korpg and Leonlionheart way back in this forum were they said, to hell with actually trying to use my defensive capabilities I want defense while I'm going all out on this thing. DRK has 1 defensive spell, its called Dreadspikes and is limited, now if they do something to boost it IE remove the hp cap limitations, reduce casting/recast time, or just increase its current hp limit by x amount then sure it would help support your theories about DRK's defense. Stun is an enfeeble, just like sleep and break, which we now have. Stun is a very effective spell to help stop disastrous attacks from killing them or others, but most nms that have these moves also build resistance to stun or are flat out immune to it, as also they are to sleep and break. I really wish I didn't have to argue with idiots about DRK's defense vs wars but sadly this is the FFXI forums so lets just say that we ignore this whole conversation because its not gonna go anywhere at all and ultimately its just gonna confuse the DEVS on the more important matter.


The new JA absolutely sucks, I mean come on SE are you even trying? We get 1 min to get 50% of our damage down to get the rest of that time as a 20% increase in damage? That is absolute bullshit, pure grade A, born in a barn, been left in 110 degree weather for 3 weeks BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your next post Camate should be "The current duration and recast timers on this new JA aren't at the standard that the DEVS intended for this ability and we will be adjusting them both soon." But lets face reality, the odds of us getting that are slim to none and slim is working on Vs XIII (aka gone to the Bahamas). If the ability offered us a 75% increase in damage then yes this would be a very good timer setup to use, seeing as we have to lose 50% of our max hp just to trigger it. How about this SE, make it so its either a JT or a 2hr duration JA that as soon as you accumulate 50% hp in damage you get a boost in damage for 1 min, at least then it would offer something.

Back to the drawing boards devs you have once again failed to appease the populace.

[Selzak]

I wish they'd just nerf Dread Spikes and make it last longer. Let it have up to the same effect ultimately, but not wear off after a minute even if you haven't been hit. Oh, and pull back just a tad on the Absorb-TP nerf...PLEASE. "Oh, that's a little too powerful. Solution? Make it not even worth casting."

I really, really believe that DRK needs a new 2hr. The only use it got was very situational and has been nerfed into oblivion. Now it's all but usless, especially compared to other jobs' 2hrs. Blood Weapon shouldn't be a 8min recast JA that procs on Weapon Skills though, that's just silly. I think Blood Weapon should simply be a trait that procs occasionally- hopefully meritable. This would do a lot for the job's maintainability, it would be unexploitable, and it would be very balanced. BW would become our DA.

We need more debuffing capabilities, still. Really glad to see the new Absorb spell though.

For debuffing, I think a job trait that occasionally inflicts an enfeeble when the DRK is hit would be a perfect match for the job. It could be called Diseased and occasionally occasionally inflict plague or something. I see this benefiting DRK mostly in solo situations for survival.

DRK needs access to at least one strong, unique debuff. Give us Amnesia on Weapon Bash- SAM got Plague ffs, that doesn't even make sense.

Add an interesting aspect to the Scythe vs. Greatsword choice. Maybe a scythe-wielding DRK would be more offense and a greatsword-wielding DRK would be more defensive/utility? Just, something.


Oh, and the new JA. The conditions involved make it seem like this is going to be worthless. Why not make it so that SD will inflict Amnesia on the DRK while it is active (maybe even make the DRK uncurable as well) and gradually grant an increase to damage%? When the effect wears off or is cancelled, the damage boost begins to decay sharply.

There you have a sacrifice and a usable ability. The most common use here would probably be to keep it up for the full minute to get a 20% boost, then pop a WS real quick before it starts to fall. Either that or use the JA when it's up, then cancel it when you get TP for a WS. It would be much more usable this way, while still paying a pretty heavy price.

[SpankWustler]

They have drains/catastrophe HP drain and dread spikes + stun however.. i typically do things with a mage and that alone makes either job survive. For most darks without apocalypse they are going to be waiting on timers and be dead before it even matters. Warriors could potentially throw up defender to at least negate partial damage where dark is already at a loss. The bottom line is just because dark can survive a few more hits has no bearing on the fact they sacrifice their defense and other DD abilities to do way more damage. A mage can will have less trouble curing a warrior than a regular dark when they have their tools in use. I will longer on my warrior than i do on my dark knight taking into account having a mage.

I know it says "Defense" next to a number and all that jazz, but it's pointless. Just pretend the number represents something else, like the number of tacos that a really fat guy can eat in the course of a day.

Yes, Warrior does have abilities that some demented developer thinks add to it's survivability. Those abilities are actually useless. Dark Knight has several abilities that can actually add to the job's survivability, and the damage taken through use of Souleater can be made negligible through proper support.

Putting that aside, the duration of Scarlet Delirium is ridiculous considering it has an added condition. If it could "charge" while not active, this duration might be acceptable.

[Dart]

war has always had one and only one viable type of defensive capability. The ability to kill shit faster than it can kill them. That's it unless you do something silly like go /pld and try to shield tank (which consequently I have on fafnir! lol)

trying to not count the utility of stun, sleep, bind, dread spikes, weapon bash, etc is just blatantly being obtuse.

[Rezeak]

I posted this in DRK forum but since SE replyed to this post it seems the best place to put it.

I tested Scarlet Delirium annnnd it's up there.... with tactical parry

At most it's +10% DMG it was hard to tell either way u have to lose alot of HP to maybe see an effect is totally fail and in no way useful.

Either way this serves no use to DRK what so ever either wasted dev time on a useless DRK Ability hurts.

Again SE if you are gonna add minimal to useless stuff to DRK just forget it, i'd rather u save FFXI's limited space for decent updates

Anyway here's the math

You can have it up 1/3 of the time then if u can instantly max it out it's a 3.3% DMG boost but in reality this is a 1% boost in DRK DMG at most.

Here's the kicker the TP->DMG or the JA for MAB are far better JAs that this because there sitituational this is like totally useless well maybe 1% useful :P

Side note: I tested on low level mobs. will test on something tougher in a sec ^^

Update tested on Tough mob noticed no difference... i doubt that the ja is a 20% boost as prev post proclaimed i'd say 10% is possible but so hard to notice.

Summary Scarlet Delirium adds nothing to DRK

Absorb-Buff and break are nice tho but honestly why waste devs time on stuff like Scarlet Delirium >>

[Leonlionheart]

You know testing something that has ATTACK in the description on mobs where your ATTACK is capped might've been a bad idea.

Go hit Akupara or Voidwrought and come back and decide if it's worthless or not.

[Leonlionheart]

war has always had one and only one viable type of defensive capability. The ability to kill shit faster than it can kill them. That's it unless you do something silly like go /pld and try to shield tank (which consequently I have on fafnir! lol)

trying to not count the utility of stun, sleep, bind, dread spikes, weapon bash, etc is just blatantly being obtuse.

Thank you so much.

[SpankWustler]

You know testing something that has ATTACK in the description on mobs where your ATTACK is capped might've been a bad idea.

Go hit Akupara or Voidwrought and come back and decide if it's worthless or not.

A 20% attack bonus that's only up 33% (or less, since it's conditional) of the time would be pretty awful, but you have a point. A literal attack bonus might explain the wonkiness in the numbers everyone has been getting against the usual test subjects.

Of course, it could also be straight-up +20% damage and just really hard to test with Sneak Attack on level 0 monsters given the "take damage" condition.

This ability really is not going to be fun to test, particularly considering the absence of cats properly trained in recording and organizing the data they "parse" while watching a bro play FFXI.

[Leonlionheart]

Honestly if anyone here wants to give accurate feedback, they need to just go read or, if you're lucky, certain things on FFXIAH. Those are more than likely where the best feedback will come from, even though they may not relay it here.

[Rezeak]

tough mobs coned at low evasion only so my attack wasn't capped.

Not to mention in equip it shows attack which didn't increase.

O yea and SE hinted at a pure DMG boost of 20% which i imagine they reduced to 10%

Either way like i said i noticed a DMG increase of about 10% in abyssea(crits doing around 10% more but definitly not 20% after losing half my hp) i noticed nothing outside (mainly cause 10% is smaller than the variation of melee hits.)

To go into more detail

In abyssea on mobs i usally crit for around 700 i was criting for 750 ish after losing 30-50% of my HP which lead me to believe to it was a 10% increase in DMG if it was 20% i should of seen +140 on my crits which is would be easy to see either way if it's DMG it's 10%~

As for attack if it's 20% attack why after i lost 20-50% Hp (multiple tests) i saw no increase in DMG 20% attack should give a noticeable increase (even with 10% attack it would be as well) on a mob which i'm well below cap.

either way with 10-20% DMG the way the Ja is designed is terrible since u get 1 min to lose a large amount of HP to make the most of it when in a real case u'll use and by the time you have taken the dmg it's worn or you have 10-20 secs to use it.

Best feedback i heard was it should work like this
You use JA and it store DMG till it's capped once capped you reuse the ja on a WS or boost for 1 min like sublimation

[Muras]

Long post, for those who don't wanna read, I'll try to summarize in my last paragraph. What I say in this post is based on what I've heard thus far. Seems there's mixed information about Scarlet Delirium, like +10% damage, +20% attack, or both. Or heck, maybe it's bugged out and not working right. I dunno, but I'm commenting on what I know.


You know testing something that has ATTACK in the description on mobs where your ATTACK is capped might've been a bad idea.

Go hit Akupara or Voidwrought and come back and decide if it's worthless or not.

Everyone was expecting a direct percent boost to damage due to what Camate said earlier in this thread:


Scarlet Delirium*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

I think every player knows attack effects WSs (Or one would hope...), so I'm pretty sure the original idea was actually a direct boost to damage by a percent. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any point in mentioning it effects WSs. If that's not the case, then fine, I can accept this was just a mistake and now we know how the ability actually works.

But that still doesn't change the fact that this ability is pretty useless. The 1 minute duration of this ability makes it extremely hard to get any results out of it because of party mechanics. It all depends on how well geared your PT members are, and the DRK himself, but depending on the circumstances, getting and keeping hate may not be as easy as it sounds. A very well geared Kannagi NIN can keep hate pretty darn well, especially in Abyssea, and I dunno if the DRK will get hate very often until the hate is capped. Even then the focus of the mob is bouncing around so you're never guaranteed the mob will actually hit you. Outside Abyssea is probably a lot easier to pull hate, but it's also easier to accidentally go overboard and have perma-hate too. Obviously this ability also serves the DRK no use if he's dead.

Party members also play a part in this on what they do too. For example, there're times where you're doing an event and you may want to drain back some HP you've lost with Drain, but the WHM is so cure crazy that you never get drain off properly (Draining for 0. Yes, I know it still deals damage, but I still find it annoying). Same thing can happen with this ability... Tank sees DRK getting hit, so they unload hate abilities and take back the mobs attention, effectively rendering the ability useless because now by the time you pull hate back the darn thing wears off. This happens when trying to use Dread Spikes ALL the freaking time. I'm sure all my fellow DRKs know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

So that's the flaw in the design of this ability, and by extension Dread Spikes as well. Partly due to it's duration, partly due to party mechanics.

So how to make it right? There's two possibilities I can see.

Solution one:
Keep Scarlet Delirium the same by boosting attack by 20% after taking 50% HP damage, but make it last the full duration of the recast, preferably 5 minutes duration/recast, but a 3 minute duration/recast is fine too. I'd even go so far as to say a 3 minute duration is a MINIMUM. I just wanna make sure I can use the boost I worked hard to get by taking a beating. I want to point out to any naysayer that this isn't like asking for something like Berserk to last it's full recast. Berserk is at full power from the get go. Every time Scarlet Delirium wears off, we'll have to build it up again, which may take 1-2 mins, hence having it last the full recast.

Solution two:
Make Scarlet Delirium what we thought it'd be... +20% boost to all damage after taking 50% HP damage, but have it on a 3 minute timer with a 5 minute recast. Again, 3 minute minimum to ensure the DRK can actually build the ability up to respectable numbers. I'd like to point out that SAM and it's Overwhelm trait is +19% damage for WSs, and requires no sacrifice and is on full time (With a condition of using WSs on the mob's face, but that's no big deal). 20% boost to all damage for 3 minutes every 5 minutes for being beaten half to death is NOT even close to asking for too much.

So, my promised summery. Party mechanics and enmity work against DRK in using this ability right. The duration doesn't give us enough time to build it up and actually use it. +20% attack isn't that amazing nor game changing. The ability's duration should last it's recast as it is currently, or be changed to how we thought it'd be and have a 3 min duration/5 min recast. I think this ability will definitely be changed in some way, since every DRK everywhere seems to think Scarlet Delirium is stupid. I checked the JP forums, they hate it as much as we do.

[Rezeak]

I agree with all of that.

I mean even in best case (where as u use the ability u instantly cap it) ur looking at a 6.67% increase in DMG

But is 6%~ DMG worth losing half ur hp in less than 10 secs
Cause if a mob can take that amount of HP off me in such a short time it isn't worth the 6% increase.
Not to mention anything that would make SD worth using i wouldn't want my enmity to go any higher so doing more DMG then would be dumb....

Either way i'd be surprised if the ja would add even 2% DMG to DRK overall and has no decent uses.

If i could of implemented it i would of made one of 2 ways....

Way 1
On a 30 sec recast.
One first use you begin to Store DMG till you hit 1/2 hp
Then on second use it gives your WS the abilty to crit(not forced crit) with the added bonus of 0.01-0.02(1/2hp) crit rate(+10-20% crit rate) .
Meaning every time u lose 1/2 u health u gain 1 crit WS with a 1min timer as a limiter

Way 2
Is make the Ja 5 min
Once used you'll store DMG till u hit 1/2 hp lost then u'll recieve a 3 min 10-20% DMG buff.

[Urteil]

1. This ability falls vastly short of even the most minimal of expectations.

This is absolutely nothing like what was said in Camate's response to what was planned for DRK, its terribly depressing.

Does this move even boost the power of drain and aspir?

How am I going to cast these crappy Tier III nukes and why would I cast them with such an ill-thought out ability?



Please make this give a straight boost to attack and magic attack for one minute, or triple the duration so its feasible for the Dark Knight to take damage and make some actual use of the ability for a decent window of operation.


Make it greatly boost the power of Aspir and Drain (+30-50%).



2.


DEAR SE,


Make it so when Absorb-ATR is used in conjuction with Nethervoid and Bale Flanchard +2, it is possible to absorb 3 beneficial status effects.


Seeing as how Bale Flanchard boosts the power of every other Absorb spell, especially the seven (eight) we never use.

[Chriscoffey]

I can't believe all of my dark friends still believe SE cares about Dark. They tell you that we are getting something that could potentially be good to turn out as utter trash. They then give us something like an LR update to which they jack up every other job with abilities/weaponskills that actually make sense and dominate any gains made.

[Leonlionheart]

Yeah after playing with it a bit, I agree.

This crap needs to be something like 5 minute recast, 3 minute duration WITHOUT losing potency.

Who are you fooling? It's not like DRK DPS is all of a sudden going to sky rocket because of this ability. DRK can STILL die you know.

[Urteil]

My dark magic fast cast is where....?

Something useful like Terror is where....?

Drain III....is where?

[Soidisant]

Haven't had chance to play on the test servers myself due to work and I doubt I will anytime soon. But after all your feedback, I'm disappointed like the rest of you. And it's hardly like I was one of the people wanting/expecting a lot from it.

If it's that weak then I agree it's virtually worthless. On anything that can proc it reasonably quick, nelees will sponging that much that they won't be widely used. And for everything else it will take too long to activate and/or the mobs be that squishy that it barely matters.

Well there's the slim hope one of our WS'es has been buffed or something I guess.

[Zoner]

Well there's the slim hope one of our WS'es has been buffed or something I guess.

They haven't touched weaponskills like Quietus, or if they did it's not noticable...

[Armangetto]

I agree with all of the problems Scarlet Delirium. They need to increase it to at least 3 mins with 5 min recast. 1 min to take dmg to build up the dmg boost is way too short. Hell what if your fighting a mob thats very melee reistant and your best bet is to cast crappy tier 3 nukes? Odds are your not gona make it in time to take dmg and cast it. Or just bearly make it.

They should make this a 3 min duration with 5 min recast. So we can take the required dmg to gain the boost.

Make it so lose half your max hp and still make it a 3 min duration with 5 min recast. Example:(Player has 1200/1200 hp / Player uses Scarlet Delirium. Player now has 600/1200 hp.)

Or they could make it so Scarlet Delirium reduces your max hp by a % like how Diabolic Eye does. Or reduce your max hp and mp.

Just some ideas.

[Raucent]

I have yet to get a testing chance due to work but in abby if you manually attempt to cancel the hp buff does it count as hp loss for SD?

[Vortex]

I feel so sorry for DRKs everywhere, i absolutly love the job, but it's pathetic they can sit here and feed a "golden bottle" to jobs like SAM and WAR but they are to afraid to give drk what it needs,

a critical based WS this is a must at this point, sure war can dish out 8k+ Ws but if drk does it? oh that is to unbalanced, no sir.

DRk 'gives up" so much but the output is only half at best of what a AH DD can do without really trying.

I would love to know why SE holds DRk back so much, is it the Kraken club days? is that it? i feel like it's just some sort of "you stood me up on our date so i'll have my revenge" type of thing. dispite it's flaws i have hope that MAYBE one day they will see and listen to these pleas. again, the Power WAR and SAM dish out is proof enough the "balance" thing is out the window with DDs. Giving up HP/stats/ whatever else with DRK is all fine and dandy SE but at LEAST make it WORTH giving up, i don't see DRKs Use souleater much because it simply dosn't matter anymore. LR update was a good start. let's take it from there.

[Chriscoffey]

I feel so sorry for DRKs everywhere, i absolutly love the job, but it's pathetic they can sit here and feed a "golden bottle" to jobs like SAM and WAR but they are to afraid to give drk what it needs,

a critical based WS this is a must at this point, sure war can dish out 8k+ Ws but if drk does it? oh that is to unbalanced, no sir.

DRk 'gives up" so much but the output is only half at best of what a AH DD can do without really trying.

I would love to know why SE holds DRk back so much, is it the Kraken club days? is that it? i feel like it's just some sort of "you stood me up on our date so i'll have my revenge" type of thing. dispite it's flaws i have hope that MAYBE one day they will see and listen to these pleas. again, the Power WAR and SAM dish out is proof enough the "balance" thing is out the window with DDs. Giving up HP/stats/ whatever else with DRK is all fine and dandy SE but at LEAST make it WORTH giving up, i don't see DRKs Use souleater much because it simply dosn't matter anymore. LR update was a good start. let's take it from there.
Wow someone that finally understands a dark's frustration. The haste cap started this vicious cycle downward and it has kept on going. I believe the 1st developers were dark enthusiast where the new ones hate dark with a passion to prod us with hopes of love then only giving minor help if any. Then on top of all this they say LOOK HOW MANY THINGS DARK HAVE.. yeah.. useless is useless. LR was the only thing in the last years that helped dark but is overshadowed by the many other updates to other melee especially if you have LS brds/cors/dncs for events.

[Kojo]

I'd say give us a Drain WS, and make Spiral Hell crit with different modifiers. Spiral Hell has never been very useful, only at 300%, full buffed, maybe with /THF.

[Urteil]

I like how there's a billion posts to feedback via the devs in the Bard and Scholar threads, all the time.

[Rezeak]

I would like a reply as well.

As far as the update goes DRK wins imo another attack bonus, break and Absorb-Atr are all decent additions to DRK
I even believe DRKs DMG is top tier outside of abyssea.

My issue is Scarlet Delirium is there with tactical parry.

Other job all got under powered ja but at least they had some use
RDM 10 min instant cast .. ok duration is meh but when u use it has some effect
BLM 10 min free spell ... same
SAM 5 min tp bonus .... same
ect

Either way SE there are some many ways u could of given us an underpowered buff which has some use
Like 10 min recast ... Next WS converts 25-50% DMG -> HP or even MP
Scarlet Delirium ... Same effect as it is now but 5 min duration on a 15 min recast
Scarlet Delirium ... Same as it is now but allows up to 100% increase in magic DMG+Macc so that when u take hate u use it and once you taken a decent amount of DMG you use drains to offset it with SDs effect.

Scarlet Delirium as it is now imo is just DRKs second job emote

Man i wish SE would of add tp -> DMG thing cause i have a feeling they added Scarlet Delirium because of users feed back instead :(

[Leonlionheart]

Man i wish SE would of add tp -> DMG thing cause i have a feeling they added Scarlet Delirium because of users feed back instead :(

Scarlet Delirium is MUCH better than that trash unless that was literally a huge increase in damage per hit.

But yeah, the duration needs a boost. 1 minute is just not enough.

[Soidisant]

They haven't touched weaponskills like Quietus, or if they did it's not noticable...

Hmm, well there's the chance that they haven't altered WS'es yet. Or that they changed one of our lesser used WS'es.

I'm actually hoping for another boost to Catastrophe damage with 95 Apoc since Mythics aftermath has been upgraded to occasionally attacks 2-3 times. Or some sort of boost to Apoc (and other relics) other than base damage especially since the didn't even get more attack/accuracy.

[Rezeak]

Scarlet Delirium is MUCH better than that trash unless that was literally a huge increase in damage per hit.

But yeah, the duration needs a boost. 1 minute is just not enough.

Not really even if tp->DMG was useless they would of been equal.
I really wanted to stack that with SE LR Aftermath lv 3

[Dart]

they finally fixed LR and made it what it should have been all along, the dev team is listening to us. So i'm hopeful that this will get fixed as well.

[Rezeak]

Scarlet Delirium i tested it a bit more today and here's the finding.

On use Effect that will last 1 min
Once you take any DMG you will gain the Scarlet Delirium which will last 1 min after that. (aka if you take DMG 30secs in you will get the Scarlet Delirium effect for 1 min after that 30 secs)
Any dmg after will add no extra DMG. ( mean if a mob hits you for 100 DMG ur looking at a 1% DMG boost for the entire effect)

It seems to be based off hp % lossed at 1% hp lossed = +0.4% DMG (very rough estimate)

All the testing info is on the DRK forum and it was done with elemental WSes but it follow what the Dev posted a while back.

I would like SE to answer how they thing DRK could use this :( u need to take a decent amount of DMG in one hit for it to be worthwhile.

So i guess when i said in best case your getting a 6% DMG overall i was wrong in most cases you'll prolly be looking at a 1% DMG boost.

My last suggestion on this....
If you want to keep it the same way SE make it so
SD Reduces DMG taken 50-100% for the 1 attack and you transfer the DMG to DMG%
Aka SD absorbs DMG taken for a DMG boost. (Work well with the Way drk is absorbing and such)

So you could use like this
Catus rdys 1000 Needles
DRK uses Scarlet Delirium
Catus uses 1000 Needles
DRK takes 0 DMG (and gain 10-20% DMG boost for 1 min)

This way the ability may not be great for dealing DMG but in cases where mobs use highly DMGing move DRK can use that agianst them and this i feel is what DRK is about ^^.

[Zemarin]

lol @ drk....

From lvl 8-0 SE didn't care. Dark is supposed to use DARK MAGIC so what does SE give them :D!!!!!?

ZOMG ELEMENTAL MAGIC TIER 3 YAAAAAAY and a lame job trait that gives a very small amount of tp just for casting that spell that just costed 1/3rd ur mp. If that doesn't prove what SE thinks about drk i dunno what is. Then oh wait!!!!!! a another useless JA. This Dev team makes me sick..

Honestly each update pld + drk get pooped on more, its almost as if they both should just be removed from the entire game.

[Rezeak]

Don't forget Tactical parry now

i'm sure it was 4:50pm on a friday when SE came to DRK the day they gave us tactical parry.

Tho i think DRK is a great job i just want anything that is added to be worth it even if it's rarly useful but SD doesn't help DRK do anything new or better and if ya don't believe me ask any WHM do u think a DRK should got get hit by a massive AoE to gain 10%-20% DMG for 1 min.... hell no but if SD negated the DMG then it would be the oppisite effect DRK could melee t4 VW NM for a short period in safety then once ya take DMG you can get a Decent WS(DMG boosted) off before waiting 3-5 mins till SD is rdy again.

[Zeroe]

This just honestly Sucks. Why is it so hard to give us good updates!? Seriously!

[Cljader1]

Maybe Scarlet Delirium purpose is to be used with Souleater, I heard Scarlet Delirium is based off of HP lost not damage taken. Try using it with soul eater i think we can lose half our hp with soul eater up

[Zemarin]

O trust me i feel ur pain most the jobs i play got screwed by SE, I play DRK SMN and RNG, RNG didn't get screwed these coming updates but we all know the rng nerf. But on a side note I was a gun ranger, and then SE pretty made Guns all magical (I even started the Gun relic). Thizs company really amazes me with the buncha bs they pull.... whats sad is in most Renditions of FF Drk's are pretty good and have a better spell selection (none of which involve elemental magic) then FFXI came :D

Break
Bio 3
Demi (Gravity)

They are all in the RDM Spells list and not Dark knight.
There's no confuse?
Doom I understand why we don't get...

Man SE just was like Eff u dark knight we don't want you to use dark magics.

They could have made this into a Job Trait Really and just make attack rise as HP gets lower... but NOOOOOOOO SE gotta make some lame skill they KNOW everyone will hate, as if drk doesn't have enough SKILLS already, prolly lowers DPS just from activating them all.

Edit: I really just wanna smack the devs in the face.

[Rezeak]

Maybe Scarlet Delirium purpose is to be used with Souleater, I heard Scarlet Delirium is based off of HP lost not damage taken. Try using it with soul eater i think we can lose half our hp with soul eater up

It's based off the first damage taken so if ya take 1 DMG the 1 min effect is based of 1 DMG
SE + WS won't trigger the effect either.

How this is tested ...
When u use SD u get a defensive effect once you take DMG you get a attack effect (in status bar)

SE won't change the defensive effect to attack effect

Once you take DMG you will gain a boost in DMG (tested with Elemental WS)
Anymore DMG taken or lower hp will not boost WS DMG further

More DMG taken on the first hit = larger boost

[Zemarin]

Oh wait blu gets doom... ya... >_> drk just gets nothing... well wait they get impact for 666 mp.

[NeoLionheart]

Would be better if Souleater activated the effect. Activate Scarlet Delirium, Souleater+Multihit WS, HP lost, boom done. Ride your 1 minute damage boost.

[Leonlionheart]

Maybe increase charging period to 1min, duration for the next 2.5 minutes!

Anything less is unacceptable.

[Madawc]

Hey Camate, could you ask the dev about adjusting Catastrophe aftermath?

The haste is capped at 25% which is now obtainable by equipment making Apocalypse less valueable. Could the Haste be put in its own category or paired in Magic such that we can get 25% Ability, 25% Equipment, 45% Magic, 10% WS?

[Leonlionheart]

well 43% magic.

Also, no. Make it Magic haste, not it's own haste. That would give DRK 90% haste, killing most things in seconds.

[Selzak]

DRK just keeps getting useless abilities which further complicate the job while doing nothing to make the job worthwhile. So not only has the job become relatively useless (with respect to other jobs), it also has no definition because SE is afraid to make the job excel at anything.

Make Blood Weapon a 5%-10% activation trait and give us a Superman two-hour; that's what they're there for.

How about making our two-hour a variation of Doom (BLU gets it...seriously?) that works along the lines of granting the DRK a gaze effect that may inflict Death on any enemy facing the user? It would be like a 20 second effect that checks some level-based derived possibility each tic- either dropping the enemy dead instantly when it hits or doing nothing. The idea is that you use the JA, look the mob in the eye, and wait anxiously during the brief moments that your gaze may kill the enemy.

Obviously some NM's would be immune, but don't just go ahead and make it useless in any important situation. We should first consider whether another job could use its two-hour to solo the same NM, and set the Death possibility at each tic in the 20 second interval accordingly. It may sound powerful, but you've basically got a 20 second interval for it to either randomly work or do absolutely nothing for you. If a MNK or SAM can go into a BCNM and take out half of the mob's HP with their two-hour, this ability should at least have a ~20% chance of going off over the entirety of its duration in that same fight.

I should be able to Chuck Norris as many worms as I can get to look at me in South Gustaberg at 99 with this ability, though.


Give us a pair of opposing job abilities! DRK and PLD are hybrid jobs, aren't they? Why is it that SAM and NIN have abilities to facilitate this concept while DRK and PLD, which were created and forced into this idea, are struggling to live up to it?

The concept of Scarlet Delirium can be our full-time melee DD JA, mildly scaling our damage % as our HP is lowered, while also granting a possibility of critical weapon skill attacks while wielding a Great Sword or Scythe (maybe require the DRK to be behind the enemy for this critical chance, too). This might also give a weak DoT effect to the DRK, both as a trade-off and as a manner to reliably lose HP/gain damage boost the entire time.

Just make the crit hits on weaponskills a possibility- the same rate that we'd critical hit on a normal swing. The existing ability would obviously be adjusted to make this fit with game-balance (assuming that it's currently not working as expected, though).

Abyssal Clarity can be our full-time magic utility JA, lowering the cast and recast times of Dark Magic spells, slightly boosting Occult Accumen, and lowering attack while raising magic attack- both to a moderate extent. These effects would also only work while wielding a Great Sword or a Scythe. Maybe this ability could grant us access to additional spells as well.

This should be a direct translation of some sort, to the effect that we could use LR to boost spell damage. The reduced timers on spells, however, should be specific and done in a way that allows the DRK to act more like a mage. The Drain II timer, for instance, would need to be drastically lowered under this effect.

These abilities should be able to be used full-time, but have moderate recast times in order to avoid exploitation. Something like 5:00 / 5:00.


The former would be used mostly in well-balanced parties, while the latter would be used mostly for low-man and solo situations. Maybe we could spice things up a bit by enhancing the effects of Scarlet Delirium while the user is wielding a Great Sword, and enhancing the effects of Abyssal Clarity while wielding a Scythe. Or vice-versa, whatever. It'd be a cool way to persuade DRKs to use both weapons situationally.

Abyssal Clarity would realize the idea of a DRK mage/warrior hybrid supporting itself and hindering its enemies while using elemental weaponskills to finish them off.

Scarlet Delirium would answer the problem(s) that DRKs have been suffering with since Abyssea, and put them on par with the other heavy DD's in that area while not overpowering DRK outside (the crit hit chance on a WS would match the crit hit chance on a normal melee attack: closing a large gap in Abyssea and a small one outside).


These are just rough ideas, the direction is what's important. I think almost all players agree that SE just doesn't get DRK. It's silly to think that the developers just hate the job!

[Zemarin]

Dark needs its own Hasso~
Also seeing how lots of jobs are getting this death/doom crap i wonder why they haven't given that to dark~ actually I'm probably most astonished at Break.

[SpankWustler]

On use Effect that will last 1 min
Once you take any DMG you will gain the Scarlet Delirium which will last 1 min after that. (aka if you take DMG 30secs in you will get the Scarlet Delirium effect for 1 min after that 30 secs)
Any dmg after will add no extra DMG. ( mean if a mob hits you for 100 DMG ur looking at a 1% DMG boost for the entire effect)

Wow. I think that's worse than anyone could have ever expected. At the very least they could let all damage taken for the duration count towards a capped bonus, since it's only a minute long anyway.

[Madawc]

Make Blood Weapon a 5%-10% activation trait

Why not just give us EnDrain?

Drain Samba3 is like up to 71 HP drained per hit. If DNC gets Drain Samba4 it could be up to about 100 HP drain per hit. A Lv95 EnDrain could have that potency IMO.

[Selzak]

Why not just give us EnDrain?

Drain Samba3 is like up to 71 HP drained per hit. If DNC gets Drain Samba4 it could be up to about 100 HP drain per hit. A Lv95 EnDrain could have that potency IMO.
Because I think the full effect of Blood Weapon by random activation would just work better. EnDrain seems like it could be overpowered, and it would also make it so that we can't use EnDark at the same time.

DRK has way too many abilities that are almost good but not quite there because they'd be overpowered at full strength. Making it something that's manually activated, especially overriding EnDark for its full duration, and another take this powerful concept, nerf it, and let DRK use it every now and then would be adding to the problem.

[Anathiel]

Because I think the full effect of Blood Weapon by random activation would just work better. EnDrain seems like it could be overpowered, and it would also make it so that we can't use EnDark at the same time.

DRK has way too many abilities that are almost good but not quite there because they'd be overpowered at full strength. Making it something that's manually activated, especially overriding EnDark for its full duration, and another take this powerful concept, nerf it, and let DRK use it every now and then would be adding to the problem.

This guy gets it. LIKED

[Cljader1]

Blood Weapon should be turned into a Job Ability, leave the ability as it is with it 30 second duration but instead of a 2hr recast time make the recast time 15 mins. Dark also needs a new 2 hr, and we should get a blood weapon type Job Trait as well, where there is a 10% chance that a melee strike can be completely absorbed as hp.

[Urteil]

Scarlet Delirium still sucks! Go check the feedback thread!




Only works off the most previous hit, and as a front-line job this simply is just unacceptable/stupid.

I can't believe that somebody is sitting in the SE office and comes up with these things and honestly believes they are good ideas.

[StingRay104]

Dear Dev Team


You are completely incompetent at doing your jobs. Seriously if I performed this poorly at my job I'd be fired. The whole concept of Scarlet Delirium was to help DRK reclaim its spot of King DD yet its use is set at only 1% useful at best. I mean seriously how can you expect a DRK to let a crippling AOE spell or ability slip thru and pretty much kill everyone in range so that we can get a good boost to our damage for 1 min, sure the healers and everyone else is gonna love that one. Hell even at full potency war, mnk, and sam will still outdamage us with very little effort or as you call it for us "SACRIFICE." I just think its time for you to stop going about business as usual and giving us crap and saying its good and start actually listening to what we have suggested over and over again about how to fix this job. STOP BEING COMPLETE IMBECILES AND DO THE JOB WE PAY YOU FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chriscoffey]

Well don't get your hopes up this nonsense has been going on since haste cap addition. I have watched dark knight fall from its grace of king to something lackluster at best.

[Zoner]

SE been quite silent about any more changes to Scarlet Delirium, I really hope we're not stuck with it still counting only the 1st hit and 1 min of actual damage increase...

[Muras]

SE been quite silent about any more changes to Scarlet Delirium, I really hope we're not stuck with it still counting only the 1st hit and 1 min of actual damage increase...

Yeah, I'm rather worried about this. Like I said in another post of mine, it could mean they're either ignoring us now, or they're discussing changes among the devs and aren't ready to talk about it yet. Hopefully the latter, but I think it's the former. Currently I feel they're gonna be stubborn and fight tooth and nail to keep Scarlet Delirium useless so that it matches their "vision". Sounds like FF14 all over again doesn't it?

[Urteil]

Vision of crap.

[Leonlionheart]

I don't mind DRK losing something in order to gain something... but it has to make sense

For instance if you lose 10% Accuracy, you need to gain the right amount of damage bonus, STP, and Haste to make up for those 10 hits out of a hundred.

I know the actual abilities DRK gets aren't so black and white, but seriously. Scarlet Delirium is like giving up 5 minutes of DPS (Cause you probably WILL die if you use the ability to it's maximum potential) for 20~% increased damage.

[Zoner]

Yeah, I'm rather worried about this. Like I said in another post of mine, it could mean they're either ignoring us now, or they're discussing changes among the devs and aren't ready to talk about it yet. Hopefully the latter, but I think it's the former. Currently I feel they're gonna be stubborn and fight tooth and nail to keep Scarlet Delirium useless so that it matches their "vision". Sounds like FF14 all over again doesn't it?

For added emphasis


Sounds like FF14 all over again doesn't it?

I swear so far their stance on dark knight's updates so reminds me of FFXIV alpha/beta. The majority of the community agrees dark knight needs a major overhaul just to be equal to other jobs yet SE seems reluctant to give us anything substantial.

[Cljader1]

I wonder when SE is going to issue us drk another response, they seem to live in the sch forum...is there anyone on the development team that loves drk and wants to restore it to glory

[Zoner]

From the SCH forum:


Based on all of the feedback we have received, we will be making the below changes to SCH:

• Tabula Rasa
Effect duration will be changed from 90 seconds to 180 seconds.

• Embrava
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Changed to make it possible to be used on players outside of your party.

• Kaustra
MP cost will be changed from 30% of your max MP to 20%.
Increased damage slightly.

As you all have mentioned, since this is an ability/spell that can only be used once every two hours, we revamped it as much as possible.

The idea of the adjustments this time, including the reason for adding Embrava and Kaustra, is to increase the usage of Tabula Rasa. In the future we will be looking at adjustments other than effect duration, but consider this the first phase.


There are still a lot of things we would like to adjust, so we are placing SCH adjustments at a pretty high priority for the future as well.

Guess they're busy trying to make the deadline before the update buffing scholars

[Cljader1]

From the SCH forum:



Guess they're busy trying to make the deadline before the update buffing scholars


But what about us, dont we deserve a look, we only got two responses in the period of 2 months for SE

[Armangetto]

If I remember correctly the reason they didnt give war or mnk much of anything was they wanted the other dd jobs to play catch up. It doest look like they are doing a great job in that area atm... Im really hoping they are gona revamp Scarlet D. If you look at jp fourms of drk,(by using google translate) they are pretty much are saying the same things we are about how bad it is and the fixes they want to it. We arnt the only ones that get a few responses, I belive drg,nin,war,mnk and a few others are in the same boat when it comes to feed back info.

[Cljader1]

Difference is nin, war and mnk are fine so far and the new update will buff drgs out there mind with there wyvern getting a 2000 hp stoneskin or something to that effect, drg's are very happy with there update...but what about us Scarlet Delirium is what we get and its being shoved down our throats.

[Armangetto]

Well they did say the update would be late this month so that means about 1 to 2 weeks left. Im hoping they fix it.... Im just beeing too optimistic....

[Zoner]

Well they did say the update would be late this month so that means about 1 to 2 weeks left. Im hoping they fix it.... Im just beeing too optimistic....

Don't hold your breath. The update is on the 19th, 10 days away.

[Leonlionheart]

In relation to Scarlet Delirium:

Honestly the biggest issue with Scarlet Delirium as it is now isn't that it's not a potent ability, because it really can be. The problem is your survivablility when you're HP has been reduced to 10%.

Even if your WHM is bot-fast and gets you to 100% HP in a split second, you're doing significant amounts of damage on something that you probably shouldn't be feeding TP if it can hit you that hard. So you WILL gain hate.

The issue, if SD doesn't change at all from it's current position, is enmity. If you're expected to live 60 seconds when your damage is increased by significant amounts (wasn't the formula for SD something like 1% HP = 2% Damage increase?), you need to have either severely increased survivability, or severely decreased enmity accumulation.

[Raucent]

a thought for an improvement: why not give SD a DoT on the DRK draining hp while it is active, and steadily increasing the DRKs attack/magic attack as the hp drops closer to 10%

[Urteil]

I'd be happy with a job trait at this point, because at a glance it will look useless and that's the only way we can trick SE into giving it to us;

That just straight increases my magical and physical damage by a %, proportionate to how low my hp is.

@ 50% = 25% more damage, where it hardcaps and cannot increase any further.

Of course going above that % would make us lose the effect, but this would increase our ability to heal ourselves, drain more with Catastrophe, and actually GIVE us something for being hurt.

[Anathiel]

Please add a drk critical hit/multi hit weapon skill. That is all. Thank you.

Edit: oh, and I would be a big fan of a high tier fast cast trait. So I can MB my SC when I close the SC and want to burst a tier-III spell.

Yep. I'm sure there are better suggestions but until something like either of my suggestions goes into the game (or something better) ill just stick with warrior, do amazing damage and be jealous I can't enfeeble/drain the mob.

[Leonlionheart]

Honestly I hope they don't give DRK a crit hit ws. I like the fact that they can still be powerful without relying on crit gear.

[Anathiel]

Honestly I hope they don't give DRK a crit hit ws. I like the fact that they can still be powerful without relying on crit gear.

Sorry, I disagree. Ill always play WAR for the big crits, but if I'm looking for 2nd place 2 hand damage and the ability/magic to boost my stats and weaken a mob for a WS (not to mention the party benefits from a weakened mob)...well i'd very much like that. And I don't think a new JA is the way to fix drk. I think add'ing fast cast and maybe scarlet delirium as a job trait that increased dmg as hp went lower....well, that'd just be nice. Also crit ws's.

[Leonlionheart]

Let's just give every job everything

[Anathiel]

??? Was that pointed at me? Crit ws's and a fast cast so I can close SC's and MB is giving a job everything?

[Leonlionheart]

fast cast is cool, but drk and sam are the only current jobs w/o good crit ws's other than like, staff and gun.

[brayen]

??? Was that pointed at me? Crit ws's and a fast cast so I can close SC's and MB is giving a job everything?

well ur asking for viable crit ws <already have magical, def ignoring and normal ws> fast cast<every spellcaster wants this> and able to MB <mage job> so add in healing and yeah u pretty much are lol

In either case i have to agree with him, ppl clamoring for a crit hit ws are ppl who just want to drk in aby. Which ppl need to get over since that area is just one part of the game and is quickly moving away from it. Last thing we need is all the jobs to be identical. Hell if drk has crit ws, that only leaves sam? as the non crit job? lol

[Anathiel]

...I like playing abyssea, a lot actually. And I don't think I'm really asking for anything crazy, because atm you can't close a SC and burst a tier III elemental spell, unless your timing is just amazing and you don't even the tiniest bit of lag.

Oh, and the fast cast thing, how many other spell casters can legit melee? ...yep, went there. Fast cast also cuts down on the dps lost when casting a spell that will do minimal damage unless bursted anyways.

Why couldn't sam get a crit ws too? I'm sure they would like one. Why not even the playing field, giving drk a crit ws isn't changing the way the job is played, its just making the job better at what it does: spike dmg.

Man, all the nay sayers really get to me: what's your reason for not wanting a crit ws? Because...it would be useful? "We already have these types of ws's right here!" And? I want to improve the job, how about you? If somebody offered you 20 dollars to buy a pencil what would you do, "no way sir, this pencil is only worth 1 dollar and I already have THREE other dollars hmmm, no thanks". Remember step three: profit.

[saevel]

Well SE did say they were looking at modifying WS distribution. If your lucky they may make the SP weapon skills more accessible. Could see DRK using a GAXE for RR inside Abyssea, but going back to GSWD / Scyth outside.

Just a thought.

And btw, DRK does have access to two good crit WS's and one not-so-good one. They just don't stack with DB that's all.

[brayen]

...I like playing abyssea, a lot actually. And I don't think I'm really asking for anything crazy, because atm you can't close a SC and burst a tier III elemental spell, unless your timing is just amazing and you don't even the tiniest bit of lag.

Oh, and the fast cast thing, how many other spell casters can legit melee? ...yep, went there. Fast cast also cuts down on the dps lost when casting a spell that will do minimal damage unless bursted anyways.

Why couldn't sam get a crit ws too? I'm sure they would like one. Why not even the playing field, giving drk a crit ws isn't changing the way the job is played, its just making the job better at what it does: spike dmg.

Man, all the nay sayers really get to me: what's your reason for not wanting a crit ws? Because...it would be useful? "We already have these types of ws's right here!" And? I want to improve the job, how about you? If somebody offered you 20 dollars to buy a pencil what would you do, "no way sir, this pencil is only worth 1 dollar and I already have THREE other dollars hmmm, no thanks". Remember step three: profit.

I don't want all my jobs being the same. It would make gear choices redundant. Gearing 2 jobs for the same thing is like making the same cake twice, might not be identical but the process is the same and in the end they both taste the same. You are asking for quite a bit actually. Crit wont change much of anything for drk short of being able to do more dmg in aby. It wont make them better cuz they lack procs and they dont have retaliation and lack counter. I am kind of sick of the whole drk wishing they were a war. No idea why such a plea for this, if you want to be war lv it, no need to get whole development crew to turn a job into an existing job.

[Anathiel]

I don't want all my jobs being the same. It would make gear choices redundant. Gearing 2 jobs for the same thing is like making the same cake twice, might not be identical but the process is the same and in the end they both taste the same. You are asking for quite a bit actually. Crit wont change much of anything for drk short of being able to do more dmg in aby. It wont make them better cuz they lack procs and they dont have retaliation and lack counter. I am kind of sick of the whole drk wishing they were a war. No idea why such a plea for this, if you want to be war lv it, no need to get whole development crew to turn a job into an existing job.

So... ninja having a crit ws makes them a war? Oh, and thf has one, they must be war's too. And I do have war lvl'ed and I play it a lot....somebody doesn't read previous posts. Giving a job a crit ws doesn't make them war, if war has the most damaging ws does it? Nope, it just gives them a multi hit crit ws.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Drk doesn't need a crit WS (outside, and inside you're acting as if it's the only job excluded there).

[Urteil]

To any serious DRK and not a wanna-be WAR. Critical WS is not the main concern, at most we simply wish for one of the mid 60's WS to be made critical to give more 'ease of access' into the job.

So then a serious player can attain an Empyrean or a relic weapon and get over that small facet which is not as defining as some seem to think.

At the point of having Apocalypse the +% WS boosts are amazing.

So F critical WS in the butt at that point.

[Zoner]

Still no word from SE that they're even considering readjusting the fail boat that is currently called Scarlet Delirium?

[StingRay104]

I'll accept the only adjustment to it being the name changed from Scarlet Delirium to Scarlet Diarrhea, because these ability just needs to reflect what it truly is.

[Cljader1]

$50 says SE ignores us until after the update and they issue us a vague lackluster response....They have every intention of cramming this ability down our throats...its obvious to me now

[Cljader1]

you know they couldnt just give us drain III or Dreadspikes II either one i wouldve been fine...or a dark magic spell that add additional dark damage at the end of WS's...why can I think up these things are SE cannot, I just dont get it

[NeoLionheart]

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

[Leonlionheart]

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

nasty nasty stuff

[Dart]

Drk doesn't need a crit WS (outside, and inside you're acting as if it's the only job excluded there).

raging rush/drakes/evis (to a lesser extent) says hi. They're still stronger than anything drk can do in the ws department (non empy) then when you compare our empy ws we still lose out) the only dd job aside from drk that doesn't have access to a crit ws via its main weapon is samurai, and it really isn't in the same boat as drk. (everyone here knows how rapeface fudo is outside abyssea)

The only way that drk will be a viable contender in a serious DD alliance is to somehow increase our average ws damage, because truthfully our melee phase is pretty solid. Crit based ws is a simple solution to this. Others have put forth the idea to change cratio's and the like and a few other things.

if torcleaver or quietus would become crit based then drk could pump out some pretty impressive ws averages without having to resort to /thf which does hurt our total damage output.

many of the ideas to change drk magic and the like do have merit, but they aren't what's holding drk back in terms of being a serious DD, which is the main point that I believe needs to be fixed with the job. Our magic side brings utility that war, mnk, sam just doesn't have and only needs slight tweaking to really be something fun.

Personally I want to be able to come on my drk and keep up dmg wise with other jobs inside and outside abyssea. (to reiterate I by no means, way, shape, or form want to make drk the premier dd job in the game. I just want to be in the fight and push the war's, mnk's, sam's, drg's a little etc.)

I'm not trying to start a flame fest. I'm just pointing a few things out.

[Urteil]

You know what I'd give up Scarlet Delirium for.

A Klondike bar.

Or a nice shag rug.

[Leonlionheart]

Update is in a week, if SE is going to do anything to Scarlet Delirium as it is now, it'll be in the next patch probably.

or i could be wrong

[Neisan_Quetz]

raging rush/drakes/evis (to a lesser extent) says hi. They're still stronger than anything drk can do in the ws department (non empy) then when you compare our empy ws we still lose out) the only dd job aside from drk that doesn't have access to a crit ws via its main weapon is samurai, and it really isn't in the same boat as drk. (everyone here knows how rapeface fudo is outside abyssea)

The only way that drk will be a viable contender in a serious DD alliance is to somehow increase our average ws damage, because truthfully our melee phase is pretty solid. Crit based ws is a simple solution to this. Others have put forth the idea to change cratio's and the like and a few other things.

if torcleaver or quietus would become crit based then drk could pump out some pretty impressive ws averages without having to resort to /thf which does hurt our total damage output.

many of the ideas to change drk magic and the like do have merit, but they aren't what's holding drk back in terms of being a serious DD, which is the main point that I believe needs to be fixed with the job. Our magic side brings utility that war, mnk, sam just doesn't have and only needs slight tweaking to really be something fun.

Personally I want to be able to come on my drk and keep up dmg wise with other jobs inside and outside abyssea. (to reiterate I by no means, way, shape, or form want to make drk the premier dd job in the game. I just want to be in the fight and push the war's, mnk's, sam's, drg's a little etc.)

I'm not trying to start a flame fest. I'm just pointing a few things out.

Was mainly referring to outside, and outside the average damage of all 3 of those WS goes way down, Even with a Twilight Scythe + Guillo drk should be averaging much closer (iffy on Raging due to BR, Drg is almost always /sam from what I see so no benefit from zerk while Drk has LR). Why are complaining about not Emp ws damage outside then refer to Sam using Fudo, I really don't get, Calad and Masa are on the same path so if you're assuming Sam with Fudo it shouldn't be far off to assume the Drk can make Calad.

[Mortalcyrax]

Guys PLEASE tell whats going to happen to are weapon skill Quietus. PLease tell me they are fixing it so we can at least do 4k to 5k dmg. I worked my ass off for that weapon and to just do small amount of dmg PLEASE some one tell about it????

[Dart]

Was mainly referring to outside, and outside the average damage of all 3 of those WS goes way down, Even with a Twilight Scythe + Guillo drk should be averaging much closer (iffy on Raging due to BR, Drg is almost always /sam from what I see so no benefit from zerk while Drk has LR). Why are complaining about not Emp ws damage outside then refer to Sam using Fudo, I really don't get, Calad and Masa are on the same path so if you're assuming Sam with Fudo it shouldn't be far off to assume the Drk can make Calad.

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

[brayen]

Quick question, what are you basing the so and so job beats drk? specifically speaking for outside aby i cant see how you are coming to some of your conclusions

[Dart]

ws averages from competent builds (see BG for the tested out info about this), TP/WS split %, having haste + double marches (making it an even playing field). You know "usual stuff" whats so hard to understand? I'm confused as to why you're confused. Unless you're trolling, or ignorant.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I missed editing a few pieces so I'll look over it again but Guillo was actually doing better than I thought it would outside in WS average, barring BR + Raging. Tor average is alot closer when War doesn't have RR + SS backing them up.