Comet/Meteor

[Zyeriis]

Adding a spell that can be cast while under the effect of Tabula Rasa.
I know they found, in a recent .dat mining expedition from that last VU that they added a .dat for black magic casting Comet/Meteor. Now that I've read the above quote in their list for what they want to do with Scholar...well, am I the only concerned that they intend to give Comet to Scholar and not Black Mage? Maybe they'll both get it, and maybe I'm just paranoid (probably only the latter), or maybe I'm just trying to stir up pointless, potentially rage-inducing purely-speculative frenzy that has absolutely no direct proof discussion because I have nothing better to do at the moment (doesn't matter) but, knowing Square and how backwards they can be sometimes...

Anyway, the Black Mage notes didn't really hint at Comet at all while that last line of Scholar does (to a degree). Thoughts?

[CrystalWeapon]

The black mage notes don't, but the quote from vanafest where they announced the cap being lifted, job changes, etc... did.


The joy of black magic is that of blast, blast, blasting your enemies away-even if you don't always survive the battle-and we plan to further explore this path.
To that end, black mages can look forward to adding Meteor (strength and attributes yet to be determined) to their spellbooks in the none-too-distant future!

Edit: Decided to go find the page to link so I wasn't just talking out my ass.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/event/vanafes2010/

[Sasaraixx]

Scholar will probably get Comet and BLM will get Meteor. The little note about SCH learning spells comparable to WHM and BLM makes me think that even more now. I think that is fine. The problem is that now I'm afraid comet will be limited to Tabula Rasa. . .

[Nawesemo]

Nerf Blu!!!!!!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Sch never.

[Mezzopiano]

That .dat has been there forever. And, for that matter, both spells have as well, just available only to monsters.

[Zyeriis]

That .dat has been there forever. And, for that matter, both spells have as well, just available only to monsters.
The .dat where theres an actual black magic casting and then the spell going off or just the spell going off animation? Obviously the latter was always there as Comet is used by certain enemies (as well as meteor).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzNOQ_Ly-k
Edit: The 1:47 mark in the video is Comet.
Double Edit: Maybe the actual person-casting Comet/Meteor has always been in the .dats, I don't know, but it seems to have been, at the very least, added again in the last update.

[Bubeeky]

I hope sch doesn't get comet....they should get more spells that are unique and different, not just mirrors or pale imitations of what a blm or whm can do....they are battle strategists, not ghetto blm or ghetto whm lol

[Tezz]

BLM meteor while under Manafont
SCH comet while under Tabula Rasa

You know it's going to happen.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Um...SCH will get Ultima (as its had a fair usage as White and Black Magic in previous titles), BLM will get comet/Meteor, WHM will get Holy II

[Kimara]

I'm expecting Comet and Meteor to end up like Holy lol. Why in the world would SCH get Ultima...

[OMEGA_HACK]

Because in the past FF titles it has been either White Magic or Black Magic, and the SCH 2hr utilizes both Light and Dark simultaneous, it makes logical sense, but this is SE we are talking about, so...

[Sparthos]

The Tabula Rasa spell is going to be Comet which makes sense as SCH already has spells active only when in specific addenda.

[Raksha]

The Tabula Rasa spell is going to be Comet which makes sense as SCH already has spells active only when in specific addenda.

Link to confirmation?

Also would it be modified by penury/celerity or parsimony/alacrity?

[Zyeriis]

Because in the past FF titles it has been either White Magic or Black Magic, and the SCH 2hr utilizes both Light and Dark simultaneous, it makes logical sense, but this is SE we are talking about, so...
Hence this thread ^^;

I won't deny that it could potentially be ultima but I didn't really see any .dats in that video that could really fit ultima. Not that they could've just excluded ultima from the .dats in that update and are going to add it in the actual update. I digress.

I do wonder what the actual potency/damage potential of comet/meteor is going to be, regardless of which job they get pinned to. Especially once we compare it to tier 5 black magic and the damage the mob-versions of these spells can do. See: Promathia vs Behemoth vs Rani in terms of Meteor damage

This then leads me back to being curious about what the spell is that will be tied to Tabula Rasa. Also makes me wonder what that means for other 2 hours getting another thing attached to them. Though this train of thought strays from the original topic of the thread: which boils down to "Comet = Tabula Rasa?", it does make me wonder what they can do with other 2 hours such as Benediction (Reviviscencega?) and Meikyo or Mijin Gakure (add auto reraise?). /off-topic train of thought

[Sparthos]

Link to confirmation?

Also would it be modified by penury/celerity or parsimony/alacrity?

In the last Version update, a new comet was added to the dats. Granted this Tabula Rasa spell is supposed to be worthy of a 2hr, it make sense for SCH since BLM would then be free to have Meteor.

There is no precedent for Ultima but there is for Comet.

[Raksha]

In the last Version update, a new comet was added to the dats. Granted this Tabula Rasa spell is supposed to be worthy of a 2hr, it make sense for SCH since BLM would then be free to have Meteor.

There is no precedent for Ultima but there is for Comet.

So just more speculation then. Okay.

[Tezz]

If SCH get's Ultima i'll come back from Hiatus.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Well first off, why can't sch have Comet (single target) and BLM have Comet (single) AND meteor (AoE, like the Behemoth's)?

Then give Ultima to SCH when under Tabla Rasa, also please note that the manifesto is talking levels 91-99 not 91-95, so Ultima would be something added @99 (more than likely due to is precedents in other games) and that meaning it doesn't HAVE to be in the .dats just yet so there is no reason to rule it out yet.

So this is how I see it playing out:

BLM learns Comet @93
SCH learns Comet @97
BLM learns Meteor @99
SCH learns Ultima* @99

*Only under the influence of Tabla Rasa

[Zyeriis]

Thinking about Ultima a little harder I've come to the conclusion that we won't be getting the spell "Ultima" as a form of Ultima is already in the game: Proto Ultima and the Ultima from the Airship fight (most everyone already knows this). Ultima can be either a spell or a monster (potentially summonable, depending on game) but there hasn't been an instance of both the spell Ultima and the monster Ultima within the same final fantasy game before.

Can anyone think of such an instance? If not, then it's highly unlikely anything will be getting Ultima as a spell, aside from Summoner, which is even more unlikely.

[Malacite]

It's quite likely that SCH willl get Comet (single Target) while BLM gets Meteor (AoE) and I see nothing wrong with that. I've seen some people calling for Ultima but honestly, that too should really be BLM only. SCH has no business using the epitome of destructive magic, that belongs to the dedicated death-dealer.


As for the White Magic, maybe a spell that directly restores MP or TP? And I don't mean Refresh or Regain, I mean straight up flat amounts of MP & TP given to the target(s). The potential for abuse with a spell like that, even if only for 30 seconds, would be quite high but no more so than a party of 2H DD's zerging with 80% Haste if you think about it...

It's hard to think of any sort of unique buff not presently in the game that SCH could get that wouldn't be infringing on the other support classes.


To the people asking for Mighty Guard - Yeah I got news for you, if anyone's getting that spell it's BLU. Farming that SOB for that spell is going to suck something fierce, but that's another topic.

[OMEGA_HACK]

um...Malacite you do understand that Ultima was Originally WHITE MAGIC, right? (as in the first instance it appeared), from that it has flip-flopped between FF games, sometimes even being non-elemental (not white or black magic) magic damage.

In VI there was Ultima Weapon and Ultima (summon in this case, yet again), then there was an Ultima creature.
FFX you could get Ultima (non-elemental spell) and you could fight the Ultima Weapon (creature in one of those optional areas)
FFVII there was an Ultima Material (one of the most powerful spells in the game) and there was most definitely an Ultima Weapon (creature)

Okay there are 3 references right off the top of my head, so that point isn't really valid. I still believe based on the nature of the spell that it should be reserved for SCH, and nothing will be able to sway me otherwise. It's history has crossed between White and Black Magic, and it makes sense (if SE gives a damn about anything they've created in the past) to make it obtainable when both Light and Dark Magics have reached optimized harmony (Tabla Rasa).

[Malacite]

When has it ever been white magic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MBQkB1ZzP4


FF2: Simply says the ultimate magic sealed away by the ancients, but why would something do destructive be considered WHITE MAGIC?!
FF4: BLACK MAGIC
FF6: BLACK MAGIC
FF7: No real label made, but again it's deliberate, offensive magic - e.g. BLACK MAGIC

And it goes on.


The only offensive white magic spells have always been Holy & Dia in offline series. Not ONCE has it ever been shown clearly as "white" magic - nor would that even make any sort of sense.

So, how does your foot taste? If you're going to troll like this, at least learn your stuff. It was also available as an exclusive ability to Ramza in FFT but that wasn't really white magic either (don't think it counted as either technically, as it's considered a Squire ability skill unique to Ramza)

[InfamousDS]

Thinking about Ultima a little harder I've come to the conclusion that we won't be getting the spell "Ultima" as a form of Ultima is already in the game: Proto Ultima and the Ultima from the Airship fight (most everyone already knows this). Ultima can be either a spell or a monster (potentially summonable, depending on game) but there hasn't been an instance of both the spell Ultima and the monster Ultima within the same final fantasy game before.

Can anyone think of such an instance? If not, then it's highly unlikely anything will be getting Ultima as a spell, aside from Summoner, which is even more unlikely.

FF7. Ultima Weapon taught Ultima as the game's version of Blue Magic, iirc.

EDIT: Was beat to the punch in answering.

[Malacite]

You're thinking of Shadowflare (or something like that) where the screen goes white & black and all these black dots appear all over the screen. gimmie a second...


Yeah I thought so. Happens at 5:48 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPToOsNLddU


Ultima was a Green materia gotten after the train Huge Materia section in Barret's town. Yeah I know I'm getting my nerd on here, but I own and have beaten all the offline titles :cool: several times over.

[Eadieni]

Well the "Comet" in the dats video looks like Meteor that Rani casts. The previous "comet" ended up as the spell Impact from the Twilight Cloak. There are already animations for Comet, as seen from Shinryu and Absolute Virtue and other notorious monsters.

I don't think Scholars will get Comet or Meteor. Comet is a darkness element spell, and is therefore unlikely to be usable exclusively from Tabula Rasa.
As for black mages, I could see meteor being a 2 hour manafont-only ability.
Perhaps even triggering the 2 hour upon being cast. If it's not, it's likely to cost too much MP to use outside of magic bursts, as otherwise there would be no real point to using other -ajas really. Not unrealistic to see it costing over 500 MP

[Zyeriis]

When has it ever been white magic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MBQkB1ZzP4


FF2: Simply says the ultimate magic sealed away by the ancients, but why would something do destructive be considered WHITE MAGIC?!
FF4: BLACK MAGIC
FF6: BLACK MAGIC
FF7: No real label made, but again it's deliberate, offensive magic - e.g. BLACK MAGIC

And it goes on.


The only offensive white magic spells have always been Holy & Dia in offline series. Not ONCE has it ever been shown clearly as "white" magic - nor would that even make any sort of sense.

So, how does your foot taste? If you're going to troll like this, at least learn your stuff. It was also available as an exclusive ability to Ramza in FFT but that wasn't really white magic either (don't think it counted as either technically, as it's considered a Squire ability skill unique to Ramza)

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultima_Tome#Mechanics

[OMEGA_HACK]

Thanks for the link, Zyeriis. Sometimes you just gotta school the schoolers.

[thenewzero]

In VI there was Ultima Weapon and Ultima (summon in this case, yet again), then there was an Ultima creature.


Ultima was a spell in FFVI. It was taught by Ragnarok or the Paladin Shield. But it was definitely a spell, not a summon.

[Alpheus]

There was also FFVIII with Ultima weapon and Ultima the spell, was considerably broken when junctioned to Elem-Def

Although from what I understand I know some ppl choose to forget that VIII exists.

[OMEGA_HACK]

At any rate all the counter-points have pretty much been dispeled, it's been a White Magic and there have been multiple times where Ultima (spell) and Ultima (monster) exist in the same game. And again I will state, that makes it the perfect candidate to being the Tabla Rasa only spell (or one of them if there are going to be more than one). BLM just gonna have to get over it, you don't want SCH to have their own spells, and you don't want them to share the same spells...oiye!

[Korpg]

At any rate all the counter-points have pretty much been dispeled, it's been a White Magic and there have been multiple times where Ultima (spell) and Ultima (monster) exist in the same game. And again I will state, that makes it the perfect candidate to being the Tabla Rasa only spell (or one of them if there are going to be more than one). BLM just gonna have to get over it, you don't want SCH to have their own spells, and you don't want them to share the same spells...oiye!

You have your own set of spells, its just that us BLMs and WHMs don't want you to take over ours.

[Malacite]

Ok, ONE game in the series where it's White, and even that's debatable - Yeah it raises spirit, but the article also notes that it functions independently of Spirit and Intelligence. To me that signifies it's in its own class of magic.

It's clearly labeled as black magic in 4 and 6 however, as denoted by the Black icon. In FFX, Ultima is under Lulu's section of the grid. 7 & 8 don't make clear distinctions between the two, but how hard is it to infer that destructive = black magic? Only Kuja could use it in 9, and again, using protective magic to blow up an entire planet? Not very "white".


It could still happen, but I wouldn't go betting on it. As I said before it's BLM's job to rain death & destruction on the enemy, so Ultima is much more fitting for them as a 99 merit or something (or possibly as a spell attached to the 99 Empyrean Staff, which would be cool.). SCH dabbles in that area, but it's not your singular focus/specialization.

It sounds to me like you're just jealous of BLM honestly.

[OMEGA_HACK]

lol Malacite as a 90BLM and 90SCH, your in the total wrong ballpark with that assumption, lol... IDEALLY I would like it on both, but that will NEVER happen...

Oh and just to throw a cork in your "destruction must equal black magic" theory; Holy.

And if its been anything more than anything its always been NON ELEMENTAL (even in games where it is "black magic"), meaning your out of BLM's specialty, and into a completely different ballpark; hence again, why it would make perfect sense as a Schema spell for SCH's 2hr.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Light is not always good, and Holy usually deals damage. Or in the case of FFVII, hates you.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

More then likely the SCH 2hr spells are refering to the tier 5 nukes.

[Covenant]

Just a question on "ultimate spells" would players be willing to sacrifice their entire MP pool(ala summoners 2 hr) on comet/meteor if damage was significant enough?

I think if SE were to create such a spell ability, then the damage/enimty should be the same formula. Perhaps enimty would be no more than use of the 2 hr only. Could be magic guested also.

[Leonlionheart]

If you look at it this way:

The opening video was the war 20 years ago

Lots of SCH back then, not so much now, where BLM is more abundant.

So all those taru BLM you thought were casting meteor were actually SCH. Even though they looked like they were wearing BLM AF1

[Tezz]

More then likely the SCH 2hr spells are refering to the tier 5 nukes.

Do you even play FF11?

[Malacite]

lol Malacite as a 90BLM and 90SCH, your in the total wrong ballpark with that assumption, lol... IDEALLY I would like it on both, but that will NEVER happen...

Oh and just to throw a cork in your "destruction must equal black magic" theory; Holy.

And if its been anything more than anything its always been NON ELEMENTAL (even in games where it is "black magic"), meaning your out of BLM's specialty, and into a completely different ballpark; hence again, why it would make perfect sense as a Schema spell for SCH's 2hr.

You've got to be the worst troll ever. Yeah Holy is offensive, it's also primarily for dealing with undead mobs just like Dia was in the older games. Lol, you pick one of the only 2 offensive spells ever made and suddenly there's a hole in my Logic?

Give me one good reason why SCH, a hybrid job that focuses on maximizing white & black magic, should have the "Utlimate destructive magic" spell over BLM. You know, the job who's primary role is to slaughter hordes of enemies. Go on, I'm waiting.

Oh yeah, and "I have a raging hard-on for SCH and am super jealous of BLMs" doesn't count.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Um...undead monsters? I have a WHM friend who deals 800 dmg Holy (which is really good since its basically insta-cast), also if you want to reach it further, it was one of the most powerful spells in FFX (and since Yuna was the easiest to get the dmg break she is usually your first character to deal 10k+ dmg on ALL monster types).

You answer your own question in your question: "focuses on maximizing white and black magic" However you mistype it, SCH's definition should be: Advanced Job that focuses on maximizing white OR black magic, unless of course the Scholar is under the influence of Tabla Rasa wherein both White and Black Magic are optimized to their fullest potentials. Read carefully your own posts, you claim Ultima is the best damage dealing spell in the game? Scholar by definition unlocks the FULL power of these magics, and since Ultima has in the past (this is a non arguable fact) been both White AND Black magic it makes complete since to allow SCH to cast it when they are optimizing BOTH White and Black Magics.

Oh and I'm sure now that you are grasping for straws since you are resorting to unclever and rudimentary quips targeted directly at someone (that person being me at this point). It really shows you lack of knowledge on the matter.

PS: Dia, Banish, Holy, Rela Crystal, Sap, Swap, Ultima, Aero (FF3), Tornado (FF3) all these spells did caused some kind of damage upon a target, some more than others but damage none the less. So I believe that makes more than 2 spells.

[Saefinn]

I'll say I have a raging hard-on for SCH. It's probably obvious to anyone I meet in the game.

I don't think it should step on the toes of BLM, I think it needs its own spells to make it special. However, I don't think SCH should be considered 'weaker' because it uses both schools of magic as I think there's plenty of areas where a SCH can be powerful. An exclusive nuke would be a nice addition, but as long as it didn't crap on BLM. I think SCH's real Magic DD strength shouldn't be in nuking. Nuking should be secondary to its helices - throw a helices to gradually deal a crap load of damage with the choice to throw in nukes in the middle or heal, but for the helix to be the main source of damage. It's how I play the job and I think we should be looking more into SCH's uniqueness not to piggy back off of play styles from other jobs. The reason I love SCH is because it's different, I wouldn't want to see it to become just a cross between BLM and WHM.

[Alhanelem]

People keep saying "comet" and "meteor", but the spell animation looks nothing like either of these spells- it's completely new.

[Malacite]

^ you sure? Hmm... what could it be then o-O?

@Saefinn: I love SCH too, and would like to see SE try to distinguish it more from the other mages rather than make it more of a RDM clone. I have no issues with SCH nuking - I just don't think it deserves the single most powerful nuke in FF. That's crossing the line, even if it's only with Tabula Rasa up. Ultimately it's up to SE anyway what SCH does and does not get, so we can argue all we want and it won't change a thing.

I'm still surprised that SCH even got Tier 5 nukes, instead of Tier 2 Helix spells (which I'm still hoping are in the pipes) but it's not an issue at all. Honestly I'm more interested in what the white magic TR spell will be than the Black (unless SCH just gets one spell but that'd be kind of silly given the nature/flavor of the job?) and again, very much want to see Regain's potency boosted.

There are better spells to use stratagems on than 1/tic AoE regain. If they bumped it up to at least 2 (3 max) then that'd be sweet. At the very least can we allow Accession to work with Haste? Even if it's SCH main only?

[Alpheus]

Come to think I've always wanted to see Starfall as a player character spell. Not so much specifically in XI just in the FF series in general. Of course thats probably Emperor Mateus' signature move so maybe it'll never happen (again in general)

[Alkar]

In previous .dat mines it was found that SCH is set to receive a light elemental nuke between 90 and 95 (don't remember the exact level). Considering SCH gets absolutely none of the light-based "nukes" in this game and the nature of Ultima in the series it only makes sense unless the new "Comet" is changed to deal light damage. Of course this can change as these spells and levels are not set in stone and can be modified in other VU (and probably already were in a way).
If you want a lore reason for SCH getting the most powerful spell (in your opinion anyway, Meteor is often considered more powerful especially in FF3,4,7) it's simply that Scholars study magic and learn to use them at their full potential.
SCH can cast spells more efficiently than WHM or BLM but their shortcoming comes with stratagem charges and lack of most spells in both white and black magic.
Do you really think a 2hr spell is going to make BLMs cry? I don't remember any BLM complaining when SMN got Odin.

[Leonlionheart]

It's not comet or meteor, it's doomsday.

Incoming MPK

[thenewzero]

In FFX, Ultima is under Lulu's section of the grid.

Actually, it's in Kimahri's area of the grid, the very center. I think it's intended to be viewed as being an amalgamation of all the magics.


It sounds to me like you're just jealous of BLM honestly.

I'm personally more jealous of WHM. SCH DD/nuking seems pretty decent (less spike than BLM, but good longevity/DoT), but there is a giant gaping chasm of a difference between extra Stratagems + Cure III/IV and Afflatus Solace + Cure V/VI. Of course, that might just be because Abyssea emphasizes throughput and ignores efficiency.

It would be nice to get some kind of unique healing spell that didn't step on the toes of WHM (healing helix?), and something more out of Addendum: White besides a few -na spells and Reraise/Raise spells. I'd also take improvements to our buffing instead, like improvements to Stormsurge/Adloquium or more buffs.


More then likely the SCH 2hr spells are refering to the tier 5 nukes.

You mean the ones SCH already has half of? And given the level progression thus far, that we will likely get at 91 (Fire V), 95 (Blizzard V), and 99 (Thunder V)?

[Raksha]

In previous .dat mines it was found that SCH is set to receive a light elemental nuke between 90 and 95 (don't remember the exact level).

lvl 95, which is why I think the light based nuke isnt going to be our 2hr spell, it would more likely be a lvl 99 thing



It would be nice to get some kind of unique healing spell that didn't step on the toes of WHM (healing helix?),


Wouldn't that be emphasizing efficiency and not throughput though?



You mean the ones SCH already has half of? And given the level progression thus far, that we will likely get at 91 (Fire V), 95 (Blizzard V), and 99 (Thunder V)?

Just ignore him, he's a troll.

[Runespider]

The size of that animation I would guess it's a monster spell, can you imagine the horrible lag to everyone if some blms were casting that? let alone 2-3.

[Alkar]

lvl 95, which is why I think the light based nuke isnt going to be our 2hr spell, it would more likely be a lvl 99 thing

Odin and Alexander aren't level 99 and like I said these levels and spells are not set in stone.

[Malacite]

Odin is loltastic anyway, seriously. Alexander is so much better it's not even funny. Why would BLM complain anyway? Odin's been a SMN staple since FF3.


But anyway, I agree that SCH seems to be lacking more on the healing side than nuking. I still don't think giving SCH (and RDM) Cure V is the way to go, for fear of returning to ToAU-era XI where it was pretty much Pink Mage or bust and WHM was rarely seen exept at HNMs for R3 or Curagas.

I just don't know what more spells SE could add, since they've already stated they don't want to add more stratagems and over-complicate the job. Some more unique, SCH-only buffs would be cool. Would native Haste be asking too much?

[Korpg]

Odin is loltastic anyway, seriously. Alexander is so much better it's not even funny. Why would BLM complain anyway? Odin's been a SMN staple since FF3.


I don't know about loltastic, but it doesn't have as much use anymore anyway.

[OMEGA_HACK]

on Kirin it can take a formidable portion of its HP off in one fell swoop.

[Alkar]

Odin is loltastic anyway, seriously. Alexander is so much better it's not even funny. Why would BLM complain anyway? Odin's been a SMN staple since FF3.

They'd complain for the same reason you are complaining about SCH getting Ultima. Odin was capable of breaking the 9999 damage limit on some bosses and without getting hate for it. BLMs didn't complain because after you use it once that's it.
How do you think the Tabula Rasa exclusive spell will work? One cast and the 2hr will wear off. Meteor will most likely fall in the same category.

[Raksha]

Odin and Alexander aren't level 99 and like I said these levels and spells are not set in stone.

Odin and Alexander are also expansion rewards. As far as we know this SCH spell won't be.

Also It wouldn't surprise me if SMN got another 2hr only avatar at 99.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I hope Ultima is a quest driven spell (after all in the SCH storyline you learn of a spell that you cannot cast yet because its old and powerful). Something similar to the Odin/Alex caliber would be cool.

[Malamasala]

Bahamut as 2 hour only, AOE 9999 damage everywhere wouldn't be that bad. I'd as usual never use it except in an 18 SMN alliance so it would hardly be worth the effort of adding it, but it would be like getting candy from the doctor... that little extra.

[Raxiaz]

Bahamut is not going to become a summon.

The "comet" .dat that was added was most likely added for the "Impact" spell given from Twilight Cloak. I could be mistaken. But I think I recall "Impact" being just a silly little Comet spell, renamed. Also, not worth the MP and cast time. Disappointing to say the least?

Ultima makes more sense. Non-elemental critical magic damage once every 2 hours (outside of abyssea, of course) seems perfect for SCH. I wouldn't want it to be a "healing" spell. Things like that should stay outside of 2hrs (for all jobs except WHM).

[Camate]

Going to make this concise and just come out and say it.

BLM will learn both Comet and Meteor.

Power...overwhelming...

[Raxiaz]

I hope Camate is being serious?

If that is so, then Ultima for SCHs would be the best bet. Knowing SE, it won't happen. It better be good though. Not gonna waste my 2 hour on a spell that's as disappointing as "Impact."

Would be nice to hear from Camate what the dev team is considering for this spell? Damage? Hate control? Mob ability restriction? What?

[Darkwizardzin]

I hope Camate is being serious?

If that is so, then Ultima for SCHs would be the best bet. Knowing SE, it won't happen. It better be good though. Not gonna waste my 2 hour on a spell that's as disappointing as "Impact."

Would be nice to hear from Camate what the dev team is considering for this spell? Damage? Hate control? Mob ability restriction? What?

Hell all I want to know is if they are truly gonna make the element of the spell dark... and if not what element?

Also: Thank you camate for confiming this (we all knew about meteor but not about comet).

[Camate]

Hell all I want to know is if they are truly gonna make the element of the spell dark... and if not what element?

Also: Thank you camate for confiming this (we all knew about meteor but not about comet).

Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility.

Raxiaz>
Yes, I am being serious. When have I ever lied to you guys?

[Andrien]

Oh. Ultima would be awesome

[Darkwizardzin]

Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility.

.....oh crap lol I think SE is gonna make it so that using these spells will have a cost (and im not talking about mp) or otherwize a great risk.

[Horadrim]

.....oh crap lol I think SE is gonna make it so that using these spells will have a cost (and im not talking about mp) or otherwize a great risk.

Probably a massive amount of enmity... Or it'll be friendly fire AoE.

[Ryce]

All Your Hate Are Belong To BLM.

[Darkwizardzin]

Probably a massive amount of enmity... Or it'll be friendly fire AoE.

Not that I disagree with you... but if they do what I have in bold to meteor that would greatly limit it's useablilty... then again that might be what they are going for.

[Soundwave]

Going to make this concise and just come out and say it.

BLM will learn both Comet and Meteor.

Power...overwhelming...

Starcraft Archon!


Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility.

Raxiaz>
Yes, I am being serious. When have I ever lied to you guys?

Spiderman~

Sounds awesome though! thanks Camate!

[Andrien]

I just hope it doesn't cost us our 2 hour ability...It would really suck b@ll$

[Camate]

Starcraft Archon!



Spiderman~

Sounds awesome though! thanks Camate!

Haha man, all over my references :)

[Sasaraixx]

Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility.

Raxiaz>
Yes, I am being serious. When have I ever lied to you guys?

And what about SCH? <puppy taru eyes> :D

[Camate]

And what about SCH? <puppy taru eyes> :D

I can't make any promises, but I will try my best to get some more information for you all.

[Vold]

My best guess is it's going to be used during 2 hour only. I would prefer that over some dumbed down piece of crap spell we can use anytime. I'd hate for it to be some AoE deal that people never use in a group setting because it can kill you thereby making it pretty useless outside of solo. During 2 hour/ninja 2 hour copycat except useful/AoE are most likely. I do know for a fact that we won't be getting these spells without catches to limit their use otherwise it's going to be "BLM only" for a long time to come outside Abyssea.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I can't make any promises, but I will try my best to get some more information for you all.

It okay, The BLM are going to have to realize that SCH is getting Ultima one day, might as well break it to them now. :P

[Bubeeky]

You are awesome Camate!

[Soundwave]

Haha man, all over my references :)

Haha, I was disappointed I didn't get your last SNL skit so I had to make up for it somehow!

[slakyak]

I imagine a spell of massive magnitude like comet or meteor could make even the best BLM feel very <weak>.

and I just wanna see what the ultima animation would look like! Green screen of death like in VII??

[Phafi]

When have I ever lied to you guys?

You told me i was going to win more than just a rank 5 prize in bonanza.

[Soundwave]

For Meteor....damaging party members sounds about right, but I would assume it won't MPK:(

I think the spell in FF3 SNES/FF6 ps2 "Merton" did something similar?
http://www.ffonline.com/ff6/espers.htm

[Wolfjorg]

Wow is all I can say, I can't wait for blm to get this.

[Airget]

I don't know if Comet and Meteor would need to be 2hr only. if the wiki is right on them Comet is basically a single based dark elemental attack and Meteor is a non-elemental magic attack. That makes me wonder that if meteor is a non-elemental it's possible that you won't be able to MB unless they give it darkness element and basically give BLM their first dark based elemental dmg attack lol.
Comet could be a tier V type casting speed with similar recast and Meteor could be a AM like casting time with klimaform like recast. Which while it would mean Meteor has the potential to be strong you would only be able to use it every 3 minutes or 1.30 if you use alacrity. Let's see BLM is missing Thunder V, and two -jas. possible those spells will be 92, 94, 96, with the potential that they decide to make Comet 95 and Meteor 99. That would be my guess at least Thunder V 92, Blizzaja 94, Comet 95, Thundaja 96, Meteor 99. Though maybe they'll surprise BLM and decide to add tier 2 DoTs. At least it would add something different to the elemental dmg only spells they've gotten so far.(excluding aspir 2 and break)

Something that just came to mind though, they could perhaps make Meteor more unique to players by adding an effect to Meteor in which it's secondary effect is based on what -ja effect is currently active on the mob. Like with firaja on a mob meteor will deal increased dmg and be fired based. waterja could add addtional effect lowered acc/eva on the mob if you think of a meteor coming down evaporating the water and turning it intoa thick mist. But ya that's just a suggestion if they want to try adding some flavor to the meteor spell since we already know that it's a trademark non-elemental based attack, if they gave a nice twist to BLM's using it I think they would appreciate having options with the spell.

As for Ultima that should prolly be a WHM SCH or PLD ability. Most likely Divine magic to, it could either be light based on non-elemental but it would make no sense to give Ultima to BLM since ultima has always been considered a more light based affinity ability. Hm, maybe SCH, since WHM should be getting Holy 2 this update or next, for anyone that's fought against an IT WHM in dynamis you may have noticed they cast Holy II now and while sure something like utsusemi: san is something some high lv NIN mobs can use it's not really in the same tier of imbalance as Holy II, which would just be an empowered Holy. With the boost given to PLD's divine damage it would be nice to see them get Holy II at 99 and possibly WHM getting Holy II in the next 5 levels.

With holy II out of the way then perhaps SCH will get Ultima, since RDM was promised new enfeebles it wouldn't make sense to add Ultima for them when SE seems to want to focus them more on enhancing and enfeebling rather then their nuking potential.

[Yugl]

I don't know if Comet and Meteor would need to be 2hr only. if the wiki is right on them Comet is basically a single based dark elemental attack and Meteor is a non-elemental magic attack. That makes me wonder that if meteor is a non-elemental it's possible that you won't be able to MB unless they give it darkness element and basically give BLM their first dark based elemental dmg attack lol..

You mean Impact?

[Mirage]

For Meteor....damaging party members sounds about right, but I would assume it won't MPK:(

I think the spell in FF3 SNES/FF6 ps2 "Merton" did something similar?
http://www.ffonline.com/ff6/espers.htm

Yes, merton, or Meltdown as it was called in the retranslation, hits both friends and foes. The same applies to the Crusader esper's attack, Quake, and Tornado.

[CrystalWeapon]

Going to make this concise and just come out and say it.

BLM will learn both Comet and Meteor.

Power...overwhelming...

<3 What more can I say.

[Malamasala]

Still wondering about one thing.

What is the difference between Meteorite from Carbuncle and Comet anyway?

[Merton9999]

Yeah Merton damaged enemies and the party, but could heal the party if everyone equipped flame shields...

Would be fun to see an Ultima from SCH that hits enemies and party members, but the effect of the spell varies based on the target's weather. If the target has Aurorastorm, Ultima heals them, without it it damages them. Aurorastorm because I think of Ultima as light element, if any, but mostly because Aurorastorm is seldom used except on healers. Foregoing Stormsurge bonuses (and I'm hoping other storm stat bonuses to come) to allow for Ultima usage would be an interesting trade-off. Also an odd form of DA Curaga for SCH that would still involve an Accession strategem use, but for Aurorastorm instead of Cure IV.

Mostly, I'm just looking forward to MPKing my LS when Aurorastorm "accidentally" wears off.

And, just to be mean, I'm suggesting the same behavior for Meteor, only with Voidstorm, so BLM has to have a SCH in the party to use it around party members!

Seriously, though, voting for Ultima as the Tabula Rasa spell, implemented as a simple high damage AOE spell on mobs only.

[Supersun]

I think we all know what the enemies will be saying after blm receive these spells


It buurnss....

[OMEGA_HACK]

SCH will probably get Comet (the single target) but not Meteor, it's nothing we are really "demanding" its more or less the current system SE is using for SCH >.>

[Korpg]

SCH will probably get Comet (the single target) but not Meteor, it's nothing we are really "demanding" its more or less the current system SE is using for SCH >.>
You will still demand Meteor even if SCH gets Comet
Ok.

[Yokoh]

I was talking with the LS about it all, and they speculated that SCH would get spells like Demi/Ultima possibly under TR effect. Would be interesting. But I do feel that BLM and SCH need more specific spells to attract the use of the job by players. Bar from 'BLM for grellow proc' or 'SCH to super heal alliance' inside of abyssea.

[Korpg]

As long as Ultima is basically another Holy type spell like WHM, thats ok by me.

We all know that if Demi was ever made and given to anyone, it would be so worthless that anyone who gets it would be screaming for a fix. Since SCHs are natural crybabies, it would be perfect to give them that spell.

[PandyTwi]

In a few RPG's I've played, Meteor isn't the ultimate move the the mage, but the 2nd most powerful. The most powerful one is a move that consists of them combining all the elements into one massive attack, although the name tends to vary, think the most recent one I've seen is "Ancient Catastrophe" in tales of vesperia, but I'm getting off topic. I'm just somewhat curious if blm will end up getting access to a move of this magnitude at all. If anything, it sounds really cool to look at.

[Rhianu]

I can't make any promises, but I will try my best to get some more information for you all.

No, try not. Do, or do not. There is no try. :p

[Malamasala]

We all know that if Demi was ever made and given to anyone, it would be so worthless that anyone who gets it would be screaming for a fix. Since SCHs are natural crybabies, it would be perfect to give them that spell.

We all know Demi is Diabolos 2 hour. And we all know nobody uses it because doing 0.1% damage to NMs is futile.

[Winrie]

There was also FFVIII with Ultima weapon and Ultima the spell, was considerably broken when junctioned to Elem-Def

Although from what I understand I know some ppl choose to forget that VIII exists.


I wonder why

[Winrie]

In a few RPG's I've played, Meteor isn't the ultimate move the the mage, but the 2nd most powerful. The most powerful one is a move that consists of them combining all the elements into one massive attack, although the name tends to vary, think the most recent one I've seen is "Ancient Catastrophe" in tales of vesperia, but I'm getting off topic. I'm just somewhat curious if blm will end up getting access to a move of this magnitude at all. If anything, it sounds really cool to look at.

This isnt tales of vesperia lol, and that will not happen im 99% sure we can lean on the fact we wont get super sailor moon magic boomstick spell that floors everything.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Demi is Gavity, and XI's version... doesn't even deal damage. Diabolos's Omen is more like traditional Demi, yes.

[Korpg]

Demi is Gavity, and XI's version... doesn't even deal damage. Diabolos's Omen is more like traditional Demi, yes.

Which still sucks.

Besides, who is writing those tags anyway?

Cause its funny

[noodles355]

Although from what I understand I know some ppl choose to forget that VIII exists.It's because Squall died at the end of disc one.


on Kirin it can take a formidable portion of its HP off in one fell swoop.Big deal when it's easilly zerged in under a minute without 2hrs.

[Korpg]

It's because Squall died at the end of disc one.


SPOILER!!!!

Wait, he didn't die, just got injured.

[Camate]

It's because Squall died at the end of disc one.

Big deal when it's easilly zerged in under a minute without 2hrs.

[Coldbrand]

[Korpg]

[Airget]

On another note though why is the spoiler tag such an odd name "HB" what does that even stand for lol?

[Zyeriis]

best thing to come out of this thread so far, well, that and BLM getting Comet instead of SCH
I don't believe he clarified that SCH isn't getting Comet, just that BLM is definitely getting Comet.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Yeah Korpg, they never said anything about SCH NOT getting Comet, jeez go troll somewhere else please. You like to try and get a rouse out of people but it just shows how you really are.

Back on topic, Camate, when can we have word on what this 2hr only spell will be? Closer to this coming update or closer to the final lv99 update? I'm just curious as to WHEN we will be getting it really.

[wolfshadow]

On another note though why is the spoiler tag such an odd name "HB" what does that even stand for lol?


Uh, hide button? Pfft, tssh, what are you, new here?

[Ciecle]

i would think HB would stand for hide behind but hide button works too. lol

[Invader]

i would think HB would stand for hide behind but hide button works too. lol
inb4 [PLD] is added as an alias for [HB]

[Supersun]

Ironically Camete just spoiled FFVIII for everyone else since the Dev Tracker bar doesn't censor the spoilers.

[Korpg]

Yeah Korpg, they never said anything about SCH NOT getting Comet, jeez go troll somewhere else please. You like to try and get a rouse out of people but it just shows how you really are.


Hoping that is your 2hr only spell then?

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's cool, most people skipped that one anyway.

[Raksha]

Hoping that is your 2hr only spell then?

I still don't think it makes sense as a 2HR spell. I'd think a 2HR spell would be something that relates to both Light Arts and Dark Arts. I can't really think of what kind of spell that would be (Enfeebling perhaps? since enfeebling skill gets raised by both arts). Just seems odd that it'd be a nuke.

[Korpg]

wait, SCH wants to be the ultimate enfeebler too?

Aren't satisfied with just WHM and BLM, now you want RDM's job too?

[Firebert_Lakshmi]

I definitely see Ultima being divine magic. It was a white magic spell when it was first introduced in the series in II.

[Raxiaz]

did Korpg really just say that SCH was a WHM or a BLM?

rofl.

[Raksha]

wait, SCH wants to be the ultimate enfeebler too?

Aren't satisfied with just WHM and BLM, now you want RDM's job too?

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

This whole 2hr only spell is a stupid idea. No one asked for it and unless its super awesome no one is going to use it. If SE is going to implement a 2hr only spell then they should at least make it something that makes sense. The only thing Light Arts and Dark Arts have in common is Enfeebling skill. I'm not the one who designed SCH, so get off my nuts.

[Dew]

Blm is getting Meteor and Comet, but SCH is getting Death for 2hr spell duh. lol

[Ophannus]

Under Tabula Rasa, it will probably unlock new spells depending on which Art is active and perhaps be level specific. Maybe Level 20= Full Cure
Level 40= Demi
Level 55= Death
Level 70= Hastega
Level 82= Confuse(in .dats)
Level 90= Toad(in .dats)
Level 99 = Ultima

Or it could be those those dual element spells in the .dats. Aqua, Aer, Ignis etc..

[OMEGA_HACK]

Aqua, Ear, Ignis, etc are supposed to be the tier II to Burn, Choke, Rasp, etc. (Or so I have been told)

[Corydor]

i know this is a bit off topic but sch does really need major damage dealing although a few extra spells would be nice it needs tier 5 cure for one, might actually make sch useful in abyssea

[Malamasala]

wait, SCH wants to be the ultimate enfeebler too?

Aren't satisfied with just WHM and BLM, now you want RDM's job too?

I'm surprised you don't remember it taking all decent roles from SMN already. Like phalanxga and stoneskinga or for fun, enthunderga. Of course it does mean SCH is bound to RDM sub to steal the SMN roles.

But as far as I know, no SMN cares about anything else than level 70 pacts anyway, so they could steal a lot more from it.

It would be kind of hilarious if SCH could sub SMN and get access to Odin and Alexander from Tabula rasa though. Like some kind of ultimate "all mages in one" job.

[Bubeeky]

I hope sch gets their own unique spells, not just copies of things that blm or whm has....and ultima shouldn't go to a hybrid mage, it should go to a pure mage, cuz having the most powerful magic is what the benefit of not hybridizing is

PS. Krab, I liked FF8 too...gameplay and graphics were so-so, but it's one of my favorite storylines of all the ff's :)

[Defiledsickness]

wasn't carbuncle Smn's original 2hour?

ff8 was awesome ^^

and guess i'll finish leveling blm for these spells :] i wonder if blm pup will get em

[Darkwizardzin]

wasn't carbuncle Smn's original 2hour?

ff8 was awesome ^^

and guess i'll finish leveling blm for these spells :] i wonder if blm pup will get em

I don't think they will... but at the same time I wouldn't 100% rule it out.

[Raksha]

Anyone who disagrees with you is trolling? So, by that extent, you are trolling me now!


I don't recall you disagreeing with me. You asked an inane question about me wanting all of RDMs spells because I mused that we might be getting a unique enfeeble.

That either makes you a troll or a failure at inductive reasoning. Either way it doesnt really matter to me.

P.S. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite for responding to you even though I said I wouldnt.

[Korpg]

I don't recall you disagreeing with me. You asked an inane question about me wanting all of RDMs spells because I mused that we might be getting a unique enfeeble.

That either makes you a troll or a failure at inductive reasoning. Either way it doesnt really matter to me.

P.S. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite for responding to you even though I said I wouldnt.

You were the one who was talking about enfeebling magic, figured you wanted RDM's job also.

How about BLU? Might as well take all the jobs with "Mage" on the title of it.

I'm just amazed that you want to take over specific roles that bad. Just saying.

[Raksha]

You were the one who was talking about enfeebling magic, figured you wanted RDM's job also.

How about BLU? Might as well take all the jobs with "Mage" on the title of it.

I'm just amazed that you want to take over specific roles that bad. Just saying.

Just to humor you, SCH has a native enfeebling skill, if getting an enfeebling spell that can only be cast once every two hours means we are taking over RDMs role then it must not be much of a role to begin with.

[Korpg]

Just to humor you, SCH has a native enfeebling skill, if getting an enfeebling spell that can only be cast once every two hours means we are taking over RDMs role then it must not be much of a role to begin with.

Native Enfeebling skill of what, D?

[Raksha]

Native Enfeebling skill of what, D?

B+ actually, since you should always be in either Light or Dark Arts.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Raxiaz]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

Natively, SCHs have D in like...everything. Only when they use a job ability does it get a boost. So natively, it's D.

[Korpg]

B+ actually, since you should always be in either Light or Dark Arts.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

With help, you got B+ skill.

Native, you got D skill. Lets hope you don't get dispeled.

Raxiaz beat me to it though.

[Raksha]

With help, you got B+ skill.

Native, you got D skill. Lets hope you don't get dispeled.

Raxiaz beat me to it though.

Light/Dark Arts can't be dispelled.

Also Saying Native skill of D is a meaningless statistic. It's like saying a naked 90war/sam has native ~45 attack (STR/2). (EDIT: Just so we're clear, a WAR with 0 H2H skill)

No one cares what a WARs attack is without a weapon.

Also ALL of SCHs native skills are D without any arts, so what? We didn't seem to have any trouble 'taking over WHMs and BLMs roles' with it back at lvl75.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Korpg]

Actually, I didn't know about the non-dispel thingy. But point still stands, you need to have something in effect in order for you to actually have a B+ on anything.

Also, WAR has native H2H skill. Just thought you would like to know. I believe it is a D rating also.

Besides, B+ enfeebling kindof sucks, specially when you don't have the gear to back it up on anything important.

Magic Accuracy ring a bell?

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Raksha]

Actually, I didn't know about the non-dispel thingy.


Seems to be a theme.



But point still stands, you need to have something in effect in order for you to actually have a B+ on anything.


Irrelevant.




Also, WAR has native H2H skill. Just thought you would like to know. I believe it is a D rating also.


Yeah I considered changing it to DRG/SAM or DRK/SAM or something, but figured i'd leave it be. Point still stands that weaponless attack value is a meaningless statistic.



Besides, B+ enfeebling kindof sucks, specially when you don't have the gear to back it up on anything important.

Magic Accuracy ring a bell?



What, Like these?:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Savant's_Pants_Plus_2
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Savant's_Gown_Plus_2
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Avesta_Bangles




[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Eadieni]

I'm sure they are going to be nice spells but I'd like to know if we can get the same epic range Meteor is known to have, roughly 30 yalms ?

[Meyi]

I'm beginning to wonder if Summoner is getting Comet/Meteor at the rate of this thread...

Oh no wait, it's Black Mage. What is Summoner doing here again...?

[Raksha]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

In case you missed it, there was already a 100+ page thread about melee SMN.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9679-Do-Relic-Mythic-and-Empyrean-staves-lack-utility?highlight=lack+utility

I know you're not going to read it, but all of the dudes you are arguing with have already gone 10 rounds on this issue so they have short fuses.

[Korpg]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

Wasn't your question on the first post answered? Comet will go to BLM, and Meteor will also.

[OMEGA_HACK]

back on topic, can we hear more about the spell list please, SE?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Even better, what is Brave(?) and what's it do.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

back on topic, can we hear more about the spell list please, SE?More? How about to start with?

[Korpg]

More? How about to start with?

Yes, I'm very interested in what spells SCH will receive. Meh, I'm going to be nice here and edit that sentence out.

Even better, what is Brave(?) and what's it do.

My guess is Physical Damage taken down and Physical Damage given up.

Faith would be the same thing, but for Mages (MDT-/MDG+)

[Leonlionheart]

http://www.ffextreme.com/ff12/magicks.html

Down a bit. Green Magicks.

Increases one ally's physical attack damage by 30%!

ITS GONNA BE THAT BIG IN FFXI TOO. fo sho.

[noodles355]

Saying Squall dies doesn't really spoil the game because it's down to your own interpretation as to whether he dies or not.

[Korpg]

http://www.ffextreme.com/ff12/magicks.html

Down a bit. Green Magicks.

Increases one ally's physical attack damage by 30%!

ITS GONNA BE THAT BIG IN FFXI TOO. fo sho.

You know, I was thinking about FFT with Brave/Faith.

But I forgot, with Faith, the higher the number, the more damage you take from spells (also more HP recovered from cure) but the opposite is true.

[Leonlionheart]

Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to it if WHM can cast it.

[Melodicya]

Hello Everyone!

Quite a few posts were made that were off the topic of this thread and had to be removed. Please keep the conversation on topic, as straying from the topic of the thread is a violation of the Forum Rules. If you have a different topic you wish to discuss, please start a new thread, or find a pre-existing thread about that topic.

You can always review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1

Thank you for your cooperation!

[Leonlionheart]

Hello Everyone!

Quite a few posts were made that were off the topic of this thread and had to be removed. Please keep the conversation on topic, as straying from the topic of the thread is a violation of the Forum Rules. If you have a different topic you wish to discuss, please start a new thread, or find a pre-existing thread about that topic.

You can always review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1

Thank you for your cooperation!

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. Glad the thread isn't closed though.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Is it because on Monday, Camate is gonna have some juicy information for us!?

(I sure hope so!)

[Korpg]

I doubt it, usually there is more hype than this.

[Eric]

I'm surprised you don't remember it taking all decent roles from SMN already. Like phalanxga and stoneskinga or for fun, enthunderga. Of course it does mean SCH is bound to RDM sub to steal the SMN roles.

But as far as I know, no SMN cares about anything else than level 70 pacts anyway, so they could steal a lot more from it.

It would be kind of hilarious if SCH could sub SMN and get access to Odin and Alexander from Tabula rasa though. Like some kind of ultimate "all mages in one" job.

I'm glad to hear about Meteor and Comet. BLM and SCH are my two favorite jobs.

BTW: SMNs should all be so grateful that Abyssea lets any sort of job in. It's not a useful job, but at least its. . . fun? Maybe?

[Eric]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

I'm from the planet where people who play MMORPGs, actually you know. . . play with other people, not solo. And of course they're the best soloers in the game--gotta adapt because nobody wants them in their parties.

But it's fine. Solo all you want. Would rather not deal with people like you in my alliances. While you're off soloing trivial NMs and mobs, I'll be busy actually contributing something.

[Malacite]

The fact that other jobs can cover every single buff SMN has to offer just shows the complete lack of direction for that job.


I love SMN, but it's been the red-headed step child of XI since it's inception.

[Meyi]

I'm from the planet where people who play MMORPGs, actually you know. . . play with other people, not solo. And of course they're the best soloers in the game--gotta adapt because nobody wants them in their parties.

But it's fine. Solo all you want. Would rather not deal with people like you in my alliances. While you're off soloing trivial NMs and mobs, I'll be busy actually contributing something.

I was never aware that MMORPGs required every waking moment to be with a group of other players. Hmm. Why is it I don't logged in already grouped up with other players?

And you're not contributing anything but pointless hate spew. :/

I'd love to see updates to summoner but this really isn't the topic for it. Unless SMN is also getting Meteor/Comet. That'd actually be kind of awesome.

[Leonlionheart]

He has a point. There should be a solo aspect of SMN and a team aspect of SMN too

As it is now, there's not much you can do in a team as SMN but cure and give half-assed buffs.

[Eric]

@Meyi Okay, to be fair, I'm only picking on SMN because Kporg won't shut the hell up.

That being said, saying that SMN is the best soloist in the game doesn't mean much, and should not be one's main argument for why SMN is a relevant/useful job. Sure there are plenty of things you can do solo, but there's no denying that the crux of this game revolves around group work.

[OMEGA_HACK]

He has a point. There should be a solo aspect of SMN and a team aspect of SMN too

As it is now, there's not much you can do in a team as SMN but cure and give half-assed buffs.


Hastega on a 90 SMN is BETTER than Haste (it lasts 2 min longer with capped Summoning Magic), magic attack and defense as well as evasion and accuracy buffs, you can give monsters pretty big attack down and evasion down debuffs. But this isn't a Summoner thread so I won't go into much detail, Summoner has been and currently is a pretty big supporting job in a party situation (not to mention the actual avatar offensive abilities are pretty strong if you can play the job correctly).

[Leonlionheart]

Hastega on a 90 SMN is BETTER than Haste (it lasts 2 min longer with capped Summoning Magic), magic attack and defense as well as evasion and accuracy buffs, you can give monsters pretty big attack down and evasion down debuffs. But this isn't a Summoner thread so I won't go into much detail, Summoner has been and currently is a pretty big supporting job in a party situation (not to mention the actual avatar offensive abilities are pretty strong if you can play the job correctly).

Oh SMN gets haste?

But I have a WHM that can do that AND actually cure well
Magic Attack? Does it make them worth having over another BLM that can stun/sleep/nuke?
Evasion is easily capped by evasion tanks.
Accuracy is COMPLETELY useless after cap, which everyone with skill should be at.
Attack down?! Does it stack with Angon? Dia?
Evasion down: See Accuracy

Supporting job, worse than all others. WHM RDM COR BRD, specially BRD, are all better, and by far.

[Melodicya]

Hello Again Everyone!

Despite our earlier warning, posts are still being made that are off the topic of this thread. Please take any other conversations to a separate thread. If no thread exists about the topic you are discussing, you can always create a new one! We ask that everyone stay on topic for the benefit of everyone reading the forum. It's confusing when you click on a thread created to discuss Comet/Meteor and see a discussion about Summoners.

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[Korpg]

I'm from the planet where people who play MMORPGs, actually you know. . . play with other people, not solo. And of course they're the best soloers in the game--gotta adapt because nobody wants them in their parties.

But it's fine. Solo all you want. Would rather not deal with people like you in my alliances. While you're off soloing trivial NMs and mobs, I'll be busy actually contributing something.

While the mods were so kind as to delete a minor point of my post, you still contribute as much as that post (which coincidentally the reason why it was deleted was because it wasn't following the point of the thread...k).

I have several well geared jobs, and when I feel like soloing something, be it a mission, quest, or NM, I'll gear up SMN. When I want to be in a group situation, SMN would be the last choice in that job. Thanks for assuming that I am a SMN only player though.

The people who wished to talk to are those who only have SMN (or think SMN are melee jobs) and contribute to the party by creating more risk and also become a MP sponge for the WHM (see: Dallas).

But thank you for your post in the matter.

As a side note, when will we know what the 2 hour spells for SCH are?

[Horadrim]

Saying Squall dies doesn't really spoil the game because it's down to your own interpretation as to whether he dies or not.




Tidus died before the game event started... that's an irrelevancy.

Frankly, I'd like to see the return of more retro spells to FFXI.

I don't think BLM should get Comet -and- Meteor -- but since we do, they should definitely be Light and Dark Ancient Magic -- if anything. I'm guessing since we get those SCH is going to get Ultima (Which is great for me, as I have both jobs.)

[Leonlionheart]

Comet is one target

Meteor is AoE

Ultima should be for BLM too. SCH shouldn't specialize in anything, but be rounded enough to Nuke well and Cure well. They don't need more nukes, they need more cures.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Horadrim, you are one of the few who knows a compromise (and balance and sense to boot). Its funny that so many people scream for SCH to get unique spells and to not get the BLM/WHM ones (Ultima isn't a BLM spell since it not even in the game so you really can't make claims as if it were theirs)

[Horadrim]

Comet is one target

Meteor is AoE

Ultima should be for BLM too. SCH shouldn't specialize in anything, but be rounded enough to Nuke well and Cure well. They don't need more nukes, they need more cures.

Except they can do neither.

I was a career SCH before the cap raise, and even then SCH had a hard time keeping up with a good WHM. The only reason we were desired was because no one was seriously playing WHM because of how much more longevity and utility RDM had (and because of the things SCH ended up being able to do.)

SCH has -nothing- right now. We get beat out by WHM when it comes to healing and have no chance of keeping up. WHMs can cure effortlessly in situations where I have to constantly burn charges to try and compete with. RDM maintains its status as the most MP efficient mage while simultaneously being able to deal solid damage and issue out potent DoTs. BLM shatters all nuking precepts of SCH and makes a joke out of SCH's attempts more often than not -- even in the best geared situations outside of Abyssea.

SCH doesn't have anything worthwhile to offer compared to WHM and BLM, which are both completely available at just about any time as a result of Abyssea's weakness targeting. SCH needs some major boons to be able to compete on either side of the spectrum, ESPECIALLY healing. Right now, there's no reason to take a SCH over BLM or WHM.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Hit the nail on the head, so to speak. But sadly people won't believe you Horadrim.

[Leonlionheart]

Hold the phone, SCH single nukes can do much more DMG than BLM can.

[Korpg]

You SCHs need to realize something. You are not meant to be the best at healing OR nuking. You are supposed to be the best at doing both at the same time.

BLM: Master of damaging spells.
WHM: Master of healing spells.
SCH: Great at being a weak BLM and WHM, but never surpassing either.

Why do you guys think that you deserve to be better than a BLM at nuking or a WHM at healing? You are already better than a BLM at healing and a WHM at nuking. Just enjoy that.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Another advantage was also in being to nuke more often than Blm at 75 without having to rest, now Blm has Elemental Celerity/Emp+2 set bonus and /rdm to keep mp up alot better then they used to. still have issues if procing grellow sometimes due to spell casts/having to recast often due to mob using TP/Spell spam etc.

[Korpg]

TP spam can be averted by only having the tank on the NM in question.

Spell spam, just cast right after the mob cast a spell.

[Neisan_Quetz]

That assumes the blm is competent, and is also the reason I don't like PUG groups. So glad to be pretty much done with them.

[Leonlionheart]

BLM/SCH is epic for proccing. Doesn't get better than that, and IMO you save way more MP than /RDM nets you.

[Korpg]

BLM/SCH is epic for proccing. Doesn't get better than that, and IMO you save way more MP than /RDM nets you.

True, but I really don't want to level SCH from 37 to 49. Although I should now since I have WHM leveled and geared.

[Raksha]

BLM/BRD is epic for proccing.

Fixed that for you.

[Leonlionheart]

BLM/BRD is completely gimping your BLM. I never like to gimp anything.

Ask me to sub something other than /SAM on DRG DRK WAR. I dare you.

[Korpg]

BLM/BRD is only for when you absolutely need 100% yellow procs. I rather go with 5/6 (or 4/6 to cut down on the number of people) yellow procs than alliance fight stuff and everyone just happens to want what I want, even on my pop(s).

[Leonlionheart]

Depends how resistant the target is too, sometimes you can never land threnody

[Korpg]

Depends how resistant the target is too, sometimes you can never land threnody

You only use BRD spells in case you tried all others and you know it is BRD. Then you ES and go for Threnody.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

BLM/BRD is completely gimping your BLM. I never like to gimp anything.

Ask me to sub something other than /SAM on DRG DRK WAR. I dare you.Gimp true, but that has no bearing what-so-ever. You're not there to kill, you're there to proc.

[Meyi]

You only use BRD spells in case you tried all others and you know it is BRD. Then you ES and go for Threnody.

Sometimes they resist even with Elemental Seal added. Depends on the monster and the elemental type they are and the elemental proc.

[Korpg]

If you are talking about Orthrus, then yeah, he resists all types of dark and light spells, including threnodies.

[Leonlionheart]

Honestly a BRD is invaluable to a group. I'd take one over a BLU in a heartbeat, even if that means I lose that one proc.

No one seems to be a good BRD anymore though.

[Korpg]

Considering I have both leveled...somewhat, I will always be a BLU than a BRD....mostly because BRD is at 73, naked, and will forever be dead in my mind.

[Leonlionheart]

Considering I have both leveled...somewhat, I will always be a BLU than a BRD....mostly because BRD is at 73, naked, and will forever be dead in my mind.

People would rather play BLU, but BRD is, at least in my opinion, the most useful job in the game.

[Korpg]

You know what, I think that Comet and Meteor should be quested spells, instead of buying them from NPCs or finding them in Gold Boxes.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Oh I agree and think they should do the same with all the "best" magics (Mighty Guard, Ultima, Comet, Meteor, etc)

[Korpg]

Mighty Guard will be a BLU spell, if anything.

Don't expect to see it under SCH category.

[Leonlionheart]

Mighty Guard will be a BLU spell, if anything.

Don't expect to see it under SCH category.

It better be a BLU spell.

Quested? IDC. Maybe a solo BCNM that you learn it 100% afterwards. Nothing wrong with that.

It's only Protect+Shell AoE usually anyway.

[Sparthos]

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I wasn't saying it was SCH, I was merely considering it to be one of the best magics and therefore should be quested (yeah make BLU have to learn it from a quest monster, just make the spell 100% chance to learn upon completing the battle).

[Korpg]

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.

I thought Harden Shell will be the super def spell we are going to learn though.

Barrier Tusk included would be sweet though.

[Horadrim]

You SCHs need to realize something. You are not meant to be the best at healing OR nuking. You are supposed to be the best at doing both at the same time.

BLM: Master of damaging spells.
WHM: Master of healing spells.
SCH: Great at being a weak BLM and WHM, but never surpassing either.

Why do you guys think that you deserve to be better than a BLM at nuking or a WHM at healing? You are already better than a BLM at healing and a WHM at nuking. Just enjoy that.

Yeah, I'll enjoy doing that in the parties I can't get because WHMs and BLMs are so readily available.

Its not about being "Better" than anyone. There is no occasion where being a "Weak BLM or WHM" is a "great" thing, you're either invited to nuke or you're invited to main heal -- jumping between the two isn't an effortless thing and actually takes time that could land someone dead in crunch time, unless you don't care about being efficient at all; which defeats all of the bonuses of being a SCH if you decide to cure in DA or nuke in LA.

Its not about being better than WHM or BLM, its about being competent and desirable. Why take a SCH over a BLM if you need damage or procs? Black Mage has significantly more procs and despite people's claims, will easily beat out a SCH in serious nuking unless the SCH has a distinct gear advantage. Why take a SCH over a WHM if you need healing when WHM can induce Stoneskin with a cure or heal massive amounts of Damage with Cure V and Cure VI that SCH can't even shake a stick at.

I love the job, but frankly there's no situation where another job is available that you would want a SCH. Having a bunch of time-limited job abilities you have to spam to augment your efficiency is more an encumbrance than a boon when things get down to the wire.

All I want for the job is something to make it more unique and potent AT BEING A MIDDLE GROUND MAGE, because right now I feel like I could main heal better as PUP/SCH than I could as SCH/RDM.

And lets not even get into the ridiculously huge spell/ability list that takes of two full sets of macros and somehow still doesn't get the job done.

[Sparthos]

I thought Harden Shell will be the super def spell we are going to learn though.

Barrier Tusk included would be sweet though.

Both are in the .dats but granted what Barrier Tusk does for Marids, its likely that spell will be Pro/Shell. Harden Shell could be a Cocoon II.

[Korpg]

Good for you Horadrim.

[Korpg]

Both are in the .dats but granted what Barrier Tusk does for Marids, its likely that spell will be Pro/Shell. Harden Shell could be a Cocoon II.

I meant having both Harden Shell and Barrier Tusk on at the same time. Which by the sounds of it, might be possible.

[Sasaraixx]

Its not about being better than WHM or BLM, its about being competent and desirable.

That is very true. I play both WHM and BLM and I don't want my SCH being better at their jobs than they are. I do want it to be competent though. Right now, SCH is a good nuker and will be better once our spell list gets flushed out. The healing side is lacking on some content, but that is true for RDM and a couple simple changes would take care of that.

I'm interested in flushing out an area where SCH can truly shine. The Animus spells were a great idea and something I really wanted. They were not implemented well at all. Have them work like helices and decrease/increase a % of enmity over time and have it make a noticeable effect. SE seems interested in adding a lot of enmity related abilities for SCH, THF and PLD but they need to make them worth using. If the combination of these 3 jobs could work together to allow DD's to do more damage on some of these harder HNMs without sitting at the hate cap, then that could be a situation where it would be worth inviting them. It would also help with hate reset moves. There is a niche here but the mechanics have to support it.

The TP spells also sounded like great ideas. Aldoquium is too weak. That is why no one uses it. The TP enfeebles need to be potent.

Lastly, give us a new Klimaform type spell that adds buffs to party members based on their current weather and fix Modus Veritas and I'll be a very happy monocole wearing Taru.

A mage skilled in both black and white magic that is capable of controling the flow of enmity in battle and manipulating monster and ally TP sounds like a job worth playing to me, Comet or not!

[OMEGA_HACK]

You can Manifestation > Klimaform (pretty sure they get the bonus if they have a -storm spell on them). Just to make a note, although it would be great if Klimaform had a longer duration OR a shorter recast timer (its what 3min? that's just ridiculous)

[Malacite]

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.


Pretty sure in that recent .dat video that was released on youtube the last spell cast was mighty guard.

Same animation - Big Green crystal-wall thingy following the standard BLU casting animation. That's going to suck something fierce to farm...


We're getting off topic here though, again. I'd like to see SCH get some more functionality out of Libra, though not really sure how they could add to that other than perhaps lowering the recast. Some spells to affect enmity directly (similar to BRD's merit songs) would be wonderful as well.

SCH is supposed to use both White & Black magic, but who says they have to emulate WHM & BLM? I'd much rather see more SCH only spells that distinguish them from the rest of the mages.

[Merton9999]

OuShiroHeart posted the SCH 2-hour spells here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11525-Thoughts-on-the-FFXI-Job-Adjustment-Manifesto?p=156535&viewfull=1#post156535

Looks like no Ultima, but I can't complain that it's possibly called Merton instead :) I'm very happy they at least look like something unique to SCH and not Comet or Meteor.

[Korpg]

Thanks for showing that to us.

They don't look that bad tbh.

[Sasaraixx]

You can Manifestation > Klimaform (pretty sure they get the bonus if they have a -storm spell on them). Just to make a note, although it would be great if Klimaform had a longer duration OR a shorter recast timer (its what 3min? that's just ridiculous)

Yes. I meant that I wanted a new klimaform-type spell that added bonuses based on weather, besides those provided by Stormsurge.