[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] WHM

[Inafking]

I like what they had to say about WHM, but I think their missing something about the worst staus effect in the game. In a game where you lose EXP when you die, they shoiuld not have Doom. If you have it in the game, Cursna should remove it without having to be recast a million times. I try and stay away from playing WHM so ya'll probably have more in depth input, but I had to coment about this.

[Bubeeky]

to be fair though, they did say that this was only the beginning of the job adjustments, so there might be more to it later

[Rya]

I'm more concerned that they completely left out the KILLAGE aspect of WHM. Front-line options, people! Gimme front-line options!! :D

[Dragonskull]

its all well and good job adjustments but their are jobs that people hardly use because they dont serve a specific purpose like dragoons theres a lot less of them and as for the wyvern would be cool if it evolved or something as it increased in level just another idea

[Bubeeky]

I'm more concerned that they completely left out the KILLAGE aspect of WHM. Front-line options, people! Gimme front-line options!! :D

Right on Rya! Give us more melee stuff! I personally would love to see us get a melee range aura that supresses the status effects of monster's auras lol....well, that plus a melee oriented set of gear and a whole slew of new job traits to increase our acc/att/ws damage, etc...I know it's a bit much to hope for, but hey, those that don't dream big don't get big :)

[Nawesemo]

Range-able bar- spells please!!!!

[Airget]

I like what they had to say about WHM, but I think their missing something about the worst staus effect in the game. In a game where you lose EXP when you die, they shoiuld not have Doom. If you have it in the game, Cursna should remove it without having to be recast a million times. I try and stay away from playing WHM so ya'll probably have more in depth input, but I had to coment about this.

Sure Doom is a pain but that's where Holy Waters come in handy. What fun would the game be if na could remove everything in one try. We should be glad that it does remove nearly every enfeeble excluding a few powerful ones like mute. But in the aspect of Doom just carry holy waters and be careful of the range of the mob's ability lol

[Fredjan]

Way I look at Doom... That's simply something you never blame a healer on. Dealing with Doom requires ideal preparation.

That said, Holy Waters are just as effective as Cursna when it comes to removing doom, they are just faster than relying on Cursna, especially when you have a lower number of Cursna sources. When it comes to them actually working, it's all luck. I haven't once been a believer in healing magic skill playing a factor. If it was, then why would a /whm be able to remove it just as luckily as I can? It simply doesn't affect it. I realize that wasn't a discussion already, but even despite that, it's better to find an Alchemist that can craft Hallowed Waters. Sure, it may cost slightly more, needing Fire/Ice/Light Anima, BUT they are FAR, FAR, FAR more effective than both Holy Water and Cursna, but not 100% effective. I can directly attest to this. Not many alchemists would bother getting 1 key item for 1 synth in the entire game, but I've made my fair share of hallowed waters for tanks I know.

Silena's description indicates it's supposed to cure silence AND mute, but it doesn't do that. I wonder when that will be adjusted to reflect what the spell accurately does. That's been there as long as I can remember.

All of that said, a Charm-na could be neat. Makes me think more mobs may charm in the near future.

[Covenant]

As with almost all the new "Maniestos" rather than give player acces to both 2 hr ability of job and sub job, SE seems to be going in the direction of "mini 2hrs".

Hmmm. A new level of bar-spells. I like this idea in general, but since day one SE had already stated in game that all status effects have element properties that ARE covered by casting the appropriate bar-element and/or bar-status spells. So what would be the new tier? Maybe absolute resistance, rather than duration down? If we're talking bar-element, I think the next tiers(for WHM and RDM both) should offer a degree of absorption(that is if matching element casted on party, ala avatars).

[Darwi]

I'm more concerned that they completely left out the KILLAGE aspect of WHM. Front-line options, people! Gimme front-line options!! :D

um... lmao i think we will always be restricted to the back line, or the front lines players will take us over... i dont want elbowed out, im a rubbish WAR ; ;

[Merton9999]

I was less disappointed by the WHM vision examples than my other jobs, but still by no means excited by them. Charmna is cool I guess.

As far as Silena not removing mute, I agree it's annoying that it contradicts the description. Am I missing something though? What is the difference between the two, except that Mute cannot be removed by Silena? If anything they should just remove the "and mute" from the description.

I don't mind having some unremovable status ailments. Waiting out Mute and Amnesia makes things interesting, imo. I do agree about Doom though. Changing up strategy to deal with Amnesia and Mute temporarily can be exciting and fun for me, but furiously spamming Cursna while crossing my fingers is not. At least add an effect to Divine Caress that makes Doom removal by Cursna close to 100%.

None of this matters to me as much as Reviviscence. It's my only hope for 99 WHM. 10 minute recast and 500 MP as a scroll is fine. Heck, even add a status to the WHM after Benediction that allows Reviv. to be cast for a 30 second period.

[Alkimi]

Would be nice for the effectiveness of Cursna to scale with healing magic skill, be nice if the skill had a use other than very slightly better cures.

It's rumoured to affect it slightly but from my experience a BRD has just as much chance of removing it as a WHM with 400+ skill.

[Nevens]

I'ld like :
- a spell to remove Amnesia. It would be nice and useful.
- Adjustement to bar-status-spells line. Resist rate is so low it's just pointless to cast thoses
- Adjustement to Banish I / II / III / IV (?) / V (?), make it the same damage than BLM nukes (though only undead should take full damage, other mob family should resist to keep things balanced)

On Cursna subject, the randomness is annoying, but in a way, it makes fight exciting. I don't mind the way it is actually.

I don't want melee/close combat adjustements. The job of a WHM is to heal, and in my opinion, all the adjustements should improve healing power. The game offer a large choice of melee jobs. When I'm in the mood of meleing, I change job.

[Aleste]

I'm quite content with how they phrased the manifesto; it seems pretty in line with what we're meant to be as a job.

Looking forward to being able to remove some of the more potent ailments (mute, venom, doom, amnesia, charm, encumberance?) with relative ease.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind some of the spells listed in the .dats that are pretty whitemage-y. Snk/invis/deo-ra, barignis/barterra/baraqua-ra, tier2 bar-ailment-ras; or failing all that, just give us hastega and I'll be content.

[Gukai]

The charmna is nice, but i personally will not use it. It's one of those status affects that make the game laughable and fun and exciting! Always wishing that annoying person gets charmed so you can beat the crap outta them, or chasing your buddy with your club in-hand as you give your warrior cry in your room, or talking to friends over skype or something and saying 'so you've had this coming' and then your AM2 goes off and everyone's laughing ... love it!

Something to remove amnesia though would be preferable, and I'd like to see something that gives a melee aspect to the job. I like to be able to do everything!

[Covenant]

I do remember reading/hearing that WHM would receive a boost to all their -na spells, whereby when casted on a player their resistance to the same magic would be raised a certain %. I don't think SE ever implemented this concept. I think this was mention when the "level cap break" was announced.

[Teraniku]

In a game where you lose EXP when you die, they shoiuld not have Doom. If you have it in the game, Cursna should remove it without having to be recast a million times. I try and stay away from playing WHM so ya'll probably have more in depth input, but I had to coment about this.


Seriously? the XP loss is pretty easy to get back now a days. You can also avoid the Doom gaze attack by turning away from it. Granted it's not 100% effective or you get lag or miss the prep message. It's something to deal with. Learning to deal with it effectively is what separates the better players from others.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

XP was always easy to get back.
And... some NMs the doom is AOE and not gaze even though it's the same attack. lol
Also... You can't have Final Fantasy without doom.

[Zaknafein]

amnesiaNA would be really sweet

[Upitupi]

I do remember reading/hearing that WHM would receive a boost to all their -na spells, whereby when casted on a player their resistance to the same magic would be raised a certain %. I don't think SE ever implemented this concept. I think this was mention when the "level cap break" was announced.

That's what Divine Caress (WHM83) does.

[Zaknafein]

yup extending the duration to 3 mins vs 1min

[Concerned4FFxi]

we get reverend mail and gear from dyna tav

[Kiakasha]

I'm more concerned that they completely left out the KILLAGE aspect of WHM. Front-line options, people! Gimme front-line options!! :D

level a frontline job...

[Mightyg]

Cure Potency should grant divine magic an equal amount of magic attack bonus. Adjust the Banish, Holy, Comet spells to be on par with black mage equivalents. There's no reason a white mage shouldn't have at least some offensive options, albeit limited by the fact that they're only light element and cooldowns.

Solace should gain the bonus multipliers for holy through all buffs, ailment removing, and healing spells. solace should also grant a slight resistance to status ailments so sacrifice isn't so difficult to use.

Misery's multiplier should accumulate like solace, only for damage taken and dealt (non spell) by the whm. Misery should also grant 10% of magic damage taken into mp. so getting hit by a spell or breath of 1000 damage would grant the caster 100 mp.

[Rya]

You know what, as much as I want a new Melee WHM killage toy...

... I would honestly settle for a Healing Magic Skill adjustment! Please incorporate it into something of value!

(also please fix Dagan, make it more like Myrkr) :D

[Sasaraixx]

Cure Potency should grant divine magic an equal amount of magic attack bonus. Adjust the Banish, Holy, Comet spells to be on par with black mage equivalents. There's no reason a white mage shouldn't have at least some offensive options, albeit limited by the fact that they're only light element and cooldowns.

Solace should gain the bonus multipliers for holy through all buffs, ailment removing, and healing spells. solace should also grant a slight resistance to status ailments so sacrifice isn't so difficult to use.

Misery's multiplier should accumulate like solace, only for damage taken and dealt (non spell) by the whm. Misery should also grant 10% of magic damage taken into mp. so getting hit by a spell or breath of 1000 damage would grant the caster 100 mp.


Please God no!

So you want WHM to be able to have 50 MAB just from wearing cure potency gear, in addition to the other MAB gear it already has? And you want WHM to have nukes equal to those of a BLM? Again, please God no! It doesn't really matter if the element is limited to light magic, you'd still be dishing out damage equal to that of a BLM. Between Comet (I don't think WHM will get this), Holy I, II and Banish III, IV that is plenty of spells to cycle through, so recast times really aren't an issue. WHM would be the best healer in the game and also capable of dealing magical damage to rival a BLM? That sounds unbalanced to me.

I am completely and totally against WHM having nuking power of this level. I know that in past FF games, WHM has gotten access to powerful spells, but that isn't the role of WHM in *this* game and those offline games don't have to worry about balance between jobs. WHM already has offensive options because it is actually capable of meleeing better than any of the mage jobs except perhaps RDM. WHM is not an offensive spell caster in this game. We already have 6 jobs capable of nuking: BLM, SCH, BLU, SMN, RDM and PUP. Do we really need any more?

Your role is to support and heal your party. The damage we can currently do on the divine spells is fine. If there is any change to them, it should be to increase the additional effect on undead.

[Bubeeky]

other jobs seem to want our healing position...why can't we have some of their nukes?

[Sasaraixx]

I can't think of a job that wants to heal as well as a WHM. . . There are jobs that want to be competent healers, considering that is part of their design. That in no way equals wanting to take WHM's position. Being a strong nuker is not a part of WHM's design, which is probably why Holy was nerfed ages ago.

[Bubeeky]

why can they want to be competant healers but we can't be competant nukers?

[Sasaraixx]

Because being a competent nuker was never intended for WHM. And up until Abyssea those jobs were already competent nukers.

[Bubeeky]

how do you know it was never intended for whm...we were pretty competant nukers with holy till ppl QQing got it nerfed....there's more to whm than just healing and staying out of the way u know

[Sasaraixx]

I don't know. Maybe it's because the only strong nuke the job had was nerfed years ago and we haven't gotten anything at all even remotely powerful since then? Or perhaps it's because all of the powerful light based magic in the game has gone to SMN SCH or BLU without exception for the last how many years? Or perhaps it is because just about every adjustment the job has gotten related to our ability to heal or enhance. I don't know what it is that you've seen over the last 7 years that has made you think otherwise. If you want to drop big nukes, you should really go level BLM or SCH.

And of course there is more to the job than healing. Our Divine "nukes" are a supplemental skill set to our primary purpose, which is being a healer. And being a good healer is more than just "healing and staying out of the way" if you're doing it right.

[Nawesemo]

And a bow! (Rosa? hellooooo!!?)

[Bubeeky]

And a bow! (Rosa? hellooooo!!?)

lol I was actually thinking about that over the weekend as a result of a different game....ya, we should get bows! I <3'ed Rosa :)

[Ashay]

Hi! I have quite a few ideas that I think would be neat additions and adjustments to White Mage.

I think the Protectra and Shellra V merits need to be modified. Changing them to Protect and Shell potency which would affect Protect, Protectra, Shell and Shellra of all tiers would be more effective. I don't see why releasing scrolls of Protectra and Shellra V would be a problem as Protect and Shell V are already on scrolls.

Since there's going to be an ability that reduces magic damage taken by party members, can there be two separate abilities? They can work on a shared timer, but it would be a neat implementation regardless.

Shield: Creates a shield that increases the defense of all party members that remain in range of the White Mage. Three minute duration, five minute recast.

Barrier: Creates a barrier that increases the magic defense of all party members that remain in range of the White Mage. Three minute duration, five minute recast.

This would add a strategical element that would force players to stay in range of the White Mage, making it easier to cast a variety of spells in the process.

What about Barlightra, Bardarkra and Barspell II? Bard has Light and Dark Carols, and even if they learn Light and Dark Carol II, I think White Mage has been in need of Light and Dark resistance spells for a long time. As for Barspell II, I realize it could be overly powerful, but even if it was a flat increase of +50 to the elemental resistance, it wouldn't be enough to completely negate an enemy's elemental attacks.

How about Auto Refresh as a job trait for White Mage? Summoner gains 2MP/tick with its Auto Refresh job trait, and while I understand that White Mage gains 2HP/tick with its Auto Regen job trait, I don't see why White Mage couldn't have Auto Refresh of at least 1MP/tick.

Lastly, can White Mage gain abilities similar to Enmity Douse and Reviviscence? It's neat that Black Mage received Enmity Douse as it was definitely needed, but White Mage also has a desperate need for enmity reduction at whim. Reviviscence has been an impressive ability since the NPC Ferreous Coffin introduced it in Campaign, and it would definitely be a useful implementation for players. Even if it's a single target ability with a ten minute recast, it would still be a useful addition as sometimes, one person being weakened can really prevent a group from being successful.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post!

[Upitupi]

There are a lot of really good ideas being brought up here...keep it up.

A couple of things I'd like to see:

I'd like to see an ability added to increase our casting range. With more mobs having AoE ability that exceed casting range, I think this could be a useful addition.

I often find myself as the lone WHM in an alliance, so I would like to see some spells (or an ability) intraduced that are alliance based, rather then just party based. Protectrona(?) Curona(?)

Rather then auto-refresh; I'd like WHM to gain the trait Auto-Regain. WHM has access to 5 weapon skills that give MP in return (Starlight, Moonlight, Mystic Boon, Dagan, and Spirit Taker; ) and 3 of those, you don't even need to be in melee range. As far as melee is concerned; in most cases, WHM doesn't gain TP terribly fast. So, while this would be a nice boon to our melee output, I don't see it being game braking.

Just a few ideas I had. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Ahrana]

Right now white mage is really one of the strongest jobs, and is really quite solid. The issues I have with todays whm are largely the same complaints I've had for years. So here's my thoughts:

1. Barlightra/bardarkra
2. Regen casting time is waaaaay too long. It shouldn't take longer to cast then cure, and even if it was a snap cast like stun it would still see limited use.
3. Misery could use a small boost.
4. Cursna at full healing skill has a sad success rate against doom.

I would like to have better melee skills, and banish IV and banishga III would be nice, but I don't think I've ever seen the whm more powerful then it is now.

[Bubeeky]

I'd like to see us get a JA, maybe 5-10 min recast that prevents all damage from one attack, usable on pt members...or failing that, some kind of spell perhaps in line with Sentinel's Scherzo or Migawari that protects pt members from massive damage, as we seem to be encountering creatures more and more often that like massive damage :(

I also think Benediction and our -na spells need a massive overhaul...I'm finding increasing occurances where Benediction nor any of my -na spells can cure an effect, like mute, or that special curse or doom or w/e that Chloris and a few others have that takes u from like 3k hp down to like 200. We are supposed to be able to cure most if not all status effects.

I'd also love to see our offensive side expanded on, whether it's melee (preferrably) or nukes, or both, our offense needs to be more detailed. I wouldn't mind seeing melee-oriented JT's and JA's that puts our melee ability like a step away from an official light DDer....something to encourage more whm's to melee and be allowed to melee in serious events.

[Rya]

level a frontline job...
I can't believe I missed such a popular comment (4 likes at time of writing). You hadn't posted in 4½ months, and this is worth breaking the silence?

Front-line ≠ Melee
Sometimes we need to be in range, and ever since Misery it's been very beneficial situationally. Front-line doesn't necessarily mean DD. For example, Misery is a front-line option, and it can be used for melee -or non-melee purposes.

Optional Versatility
We don't need to be first-rate DD's, but having more than one way to do things makes -any- job a little more interesting. You don't have to use front-line WHM options if you don't want them, but many of us WHM's have found advantages to multiple playstyles (not just one), and we have employed them where appropriate to great effect!

Valuable Feedback
In the future, please make an effort to be kind (I know it's hard when you have the power of anonymity) and constructive where possible. We're trying to discuss pros/cons of proposed changes to WHM, so all you need to say is:

"I have always felt that WHM should remain on the back lines, because ____."
That way we can continue working on the original topic, which is WHM adjustments/direction. Thank you for reading, and have a wonderful day! :)

[Bubeeky]

Another idea that just popped into my head for whm is some kind of a holy aura, a passive JT that supresses the status-inducing auras of monsters...it wouldn't prevent status effects from their attacks, but it would prevent like the passive silence aura from that shroom in Vunkerl from taking effect. It would be like an extension of our status cures/prevention magic, but we'd have to be in melee range for it to work :)

[Fredjan]

While SE has not made any more posts about what's incoming for White Mage, I'll mention what I think the job could benefit from, and what I strongly disagree on.

First thing, White Mage will never, ever, get Auto-Regain, anyone could tell that's the case. We're not designed to be a melee job, although we can have fun with our clubs sometimes - I'm all too familiar >.>, fact is, White Mage is the strongest "mage" (this isn't factoring BLU though) melee when we want to melee things that justify it, solely due to Hexa Strike. We aren't getting a trait that'd go to a melee no questions asked if it went to one. TL;DR: I have yet to see them consider an Auto-Regain trait for any job, let alone a mage that only benefits from it front-lining that's designed to be in the back-line.

Second, updates that are given to White Mage through the Manifesto are *not* likely going to include the front-line melee role (Honestly, I view Auspice as a Subtle Blow spell, with the Enlight for the WHM under Misery as an added bonus). You can tell they didn't even bring it up - it's like on some other mages who have certain people saying they should be meleeing - Red Mage, Summoner, etc... not one mention. SE's vision of these jobs involves back-lining, and I'm perfectly content with that.

White Mage is flat out not going to be meleeing anything in serious events. We're healers in serious events, and we're not exactly meant to DD, end of story. Sure, anything that was serious at 75, knock yourself out, you should have no problem, but once 99 end-game content comes out, we know what we're going to be doing: Healing, and that's what people are going to want White Mages for. If I want to play a DD in these endgame events, I have Dark Knight for that. When it comes to offensive magic, I wouldn't mind seeing newer Banish spells and Holy II.

AoE damage can indeed be extremely dangerous for mages, White Mages are no exception. I do walk into AoE range kinda frequently, but it's for our barspells most of the time. I do think we should see the other 2 elements as barspells, though I suppose we do get an extra challenge without them. Any other case, in most scenarios, we're better off out of mob's range if possible, while still being able to cure people. When the AoE damage is somewhat worth justifying being in range, you could benefit from Misery, and use the Cura line of spells. They don't restore a ton of HP, but they can be pretty MP efficient.


Regen casting time is waaaaay too long. It shouldn't take longer to cast then cure, and even if it was a snap cast like stun it would still see limited use.

A lot of people do prefer to cure the HP immediately as compared to an over-time effect. Even with Fast Cast gear, and /SCH (I would say /RDM, but a /SCH can cast faster with Celerity; nevermind the fact I never sub RDM), cures will always go off faster than Regen spells due to cure cast time gear and cure cast time merits. Take Regen IV for example, wiki has it listed as taking 5 seconds to cast, vs. Cure VI being 2.5. People simply prefer to heal the HP faster, and cures will always do that compared to Regen.

At the same time, the Regen line is designed to gradually cure people over time, while saving MP doing so. When the mob doesn't damage the person much, tossing a Regen will take care of their HP, saving the MP one'd use casting a cure instead. Outside of Abyssea, MP conservation is more important (and we all better get used to it!), so we will see more use of it. Inside of Abyssea, it's nearly meaningless to try to conserve MP - I have infinite MP most of the time due to atma, as do most, and I can spam Cure V/VI fairly easily without worry of even coming close to low MP, unless I'm curing a MNK/WAR that lost Counterstance or something and they're still tanking with zero PDT- gear.

With regards to Cure VI, sure, one can heal for ~1500 or more with that spell, but outside of abyssea, that truly is a last-resort spell, as it's not exactly easy on the MP. It's nearly 100 more MP than Cure V, and at most, cures for 300-400 HP more. Though with job abilities like Penury and gear like Orison Pantaloons +2, it's less of a hassle. A lot think Red Mage, Scholar, and to an extent Paladin should have access to Cure V, and if end-game stayed in Abyssea, I would've agreed. White Mage should be the superior healer, and as is, it is that way. Sure, Dancer has Curing Waltz V, but they have an extremely unforgiving recast timer, and I know every DNC could vouch for that (it can outperform Cure V when it comes to HP cured with ideal waltz gear however, even compared to a WHM with ideal curing gear - I've seen it do almost 1300).

The merits could definitely use a revision. Honestly, defense is so meaningless in FFXI that if they made a Protectra VI spell, I'd only use it just to learn the spell, because I like having every spell. Doesn't mean it'd be useful. We all know how useful Protectra V is compared to Protectra IV... it's only a few more points of defense. Really? It won't make any difference at all. What I'd like to see, is something along the lines of the following: The entire "Protect" spell series being adjusted to become Physical Damage Taken-, just like the entire "Shell" series does for magic damage taken. During the process, since seeing tier VI buffs isn't too unlikely, they should adjust the group 2 merits for Protectra V and Shellra V to just increase efficiency of the entire series of the spells (such as -2% for level 1, up to -10% at level 5; as just an example).

As for Cursna, like I said in an earlier post, I'm inclined to think it's designed to have a low yet set chance at removing doom, not dependent on Healing Magic Skill. I'm fine with that - I like having a challenge at removing Doom. Sure, I can craft Holy/Hallowed Waters to help the cause further, but even WITH Hallowed Waters, I've still had tanks die against some mobs that inflict doom (Bukhis, I'm looking at you) even despite Hallowed Water + Cursna spam. I definitely liked the idea of mobs having Auras, as well, though I do wish some people knew more about them.

I also don't see a need for an Enmity Douse-like effect for WHM. WHM has access to massive enmity- gear, as well as an Enmity- JOB TRAIT for Healing Magic: Tranquil Heart (although yeah, RDM and SCH also have this). If a WHM's getting hate, something's wrong, or there's a hate reset factor being involved.

Overall though, I am quite happy with the White Mage job as it currently is. We have the spells that make us the preferred healer, and we can help manage our MP on our own fairly well with /SCH (Yes, I'm a /SCH fanboy - I am NOT a fan of /RDM, but hey, it's personal preference, and that will never change).

TL;DR for things I think they should do that they didn't mention as example adjustments:
- Keep WHM as the only job that can cast Cure V at will. (When I say "at will", I exclude the Puppetmaster's automaton.) Reality is, if Scholar and Red Mage gained Cure V, I feel WHMs would be less desired because we don't have as much HP outside of Abyssea to justify Cure VI use and they could get the job done similarly. (I think both SCH and RDM should get things that make them more desirable when it comes to supporting the group, enfeebles, unique buffs, etc, etc, etc). If I wanted any job to get Cure V, it'd be Paladin, but without the set VE/CE values that it currently possesses. There's a certain PLD I know who tells me all the time how he feels Cure IV is... a bit on the lacking side. It's not as effective anymore for hate gain, and it's almost solely to help keep HP up. The more HP you cure, the more hate you get, but even then, cures don't generate as much hate at higher level.
- Re-look into the effectiveness of the "Protect" line of spells, and redesign the group 2 merits should we see a sixth tier of these buffs.
- Barlightra/Bardarkra, please. At the same time, give RDM the single-target versions.
- Shorten Regen cast time. Could always introduce gear that'd lower "Regen cast time", similar to cures and healing magic. Though yeah, enhancing magic cast time- gear would work just as well, such as the sash that comes from Ogopogo.

[Ashay]

I agree that Protect should be percentage based similarly to Shell so that it'd be more effective, because an increase of 60 to defense is really minimal.

However, I can't really agree that White Mage wouldn't make good use of an ability similar to Enmity Douse. We did get Tranquil Heart, but its effect is insignificant in longer fights. If you're healing a party of six or a full alliance of people, your cumulative enmity will be capped quickly. There are few options to quickly reduce your enmity so that tanks can retain the enemy's attention, and casting in full Enmity- gear is not really likely due to Cure Potency gear and such. Unless your Thief is on top of using Collaborator or Accomplice, that's not really a great option either.

[Ahrana]

We're mostly on the same page, except for this bit:


- Keep WHM as the only job that can cast Cure V at will. (When I say "at will", I exclude the Puppetmaster's automaton.) Reality is, if Scholar and Red Mage gained Cure V, I feel WHMs would be less desired because we don't have as much HP outside of Abyssea to justify Cure VI use and they could get the job done similarly. (I think both SCH and RDM should get things that make them more desirable when it comes to supporting the group, enfeebles, unique buffs, etc, etc, etc). If I wanted any job to get Cure V, it'd be Paladin, but without the set VE/CE values that it currently possesses. There's a certain PLD I know who tells me all the time how he feels Cure IV is... a bit on the lacking side. It's not as effective anymore for hate gain, and it's almost solely to help keep HP up. The more HP you cure, the more hate you get, but even then, cures don't generate as much hate at higher level.

I think white mage being the only job that has cure V has caused a balance problem in FFXI. There's something seriously wrong when every party has to have one specific job to function, and that's currently what's happening with white mage. While part of the problem is abyssea and the huge hp pools and monster damage output, even in non-abyssea fights (such as voidwatch) most parties are constructed around white mages, and only white mages. It would be nice if at least one other job could fill the main healer role, and barring a major spell addition to another job I don't see another solution other then giving another job access to cure V.

If I could give it to one other job it would be scholar, but I would put the restriction that they could only use it under Addendum: White. That would make another job a passable healer if they specifically focused on doing it, but white mage would still be easily superior because of merits, job specific gear, and job traits.

And to put the situation in perspective, red mages and scholars are only marginally better healers then any melee/whm with a lot of +mp gear and refresh support. That doesn't seem right to me, but then again I do play white mage and scholar so maybe I'm biased.

[Bubeeky]

The problem Ahrana is that sch and rdm are so much better at MP efficiency and usage that if you gave Cure V to them, they would become instantly more popular than whm for anything outside of Aby, which is how it was @75, with whms being all but obsolete due to our horrible mp problems at that time...I'm not saying we'd encounter the exact same issues, but I just think we should keep cure V and VI a whm only thing, and help SE to continue workin' to find alternative ways that SCH could be more competant as a healer, so that they bring something unique to the table, not just the same crap whm has.

[Aleste]

My only problem with SCH getting cure V is the amount of potency they can end up with.... 38% in gear, then +60% with AF3+2 head.

[Ahrana]

I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

[Fredjan]

And to put the situation in perspective, red mages and scholars are only marginally better healers then any melee/whm with a lot of +mp gear and refresh support. That doesn't seem right to me, but then again I do play white mage and scholar so maybe I'm biased.

I play White Mage, Red Mage, and Scholar, so I know what you mean. I do understand that point of view. However, cure potency gear and whatnot is what'd make the difference compared to a melee/whm - I can reach close to 600 Cure IVs on RDM and SCH. Plus Scholar has Rapture, allowing a Cure IV to exceed 800+ with ease. If a SCH /WHM'ed for some reason (such as Haste), Divine Seal would stack on top of that if the situation called for its use. Most RDM/WHM only use Divine Seal with Convert.

I'm not completely against the Cure V thing being given to other jobs, but I do want White Mage to shine as the healer, similarly to BLM as the main nuker. Even if they had Cure V, WHM would have the (current) capped cure potency advantage + Afflatus Solace boost from AF3+2 body, but I doubt people would think of that. People didn't want WHMs at 75 because even with Cure V, having more MP is what people preferred, and that's one thing I strongly disliked when the level cap was 75. I didn't even enjoy main healing on RDM or SCH - maybe I just feel like those jobs lacked when it came to a main healer role, even at 75. But there's one thing they didn't lack on: MP efficiency (SCH, RDM has Convert+Refresh II only on a /whm use, but I tend to /SCH even on RDM unless I have to have a spell /WHM gives me when it comes to healing). In this day and age, all 3 jobs have plenty of self-support when it comes to efficiency, so it's a matter of what can do the best job healing.

I think the ideal situation is to give them more healing magic support, but not exactly Cure V just yet. After all, they have said that currently they don't have plans to do something like Cure V - but that doesn't mean they won't down the line.

Another case-in point: Summoner, like White Mage, can hit the cure potency cap (because of Facio Bliaut), so they'd cast Cure IVs (as /WHM of course, for now) even stronger than RDM and SCH (outside of Rapture). Nevermind the fact I hate healing on Summoner, it's just showing that RDM and SCH don't just lack cure potency gear to reach the cap; a job that doesn't even have a cure spell on its own without subbing a mage can reach it.


I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

I try to use the regain spell when I'm with melees. Enmity spells was an interesting thought, but I don't use those often either.


SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

They have indeed. I do recall them saying they plan to adjust Enfeebling Magic, which would definitely help RDM. As-is, a lot of things resist most enfeebles, so that needs a fix.

[Zigfreid]

Way I look at Doom... That's simply something you never blame a healer on. Dealing with Doom requires ideal preparation.

That said, Holy Waters are just as effective as Cursna when it comes to removing doom, they are just faster than relying on Cursna, especially when you have a lower number of Cursna sources. When it comes to them actually working, it's all luck. I haven't once been a believer in healing magic skill playing a factor. If it was, then why would a /whm be able to remove it just as luckily as I can? It simply doesn't affect it. I realize that wasn't a discussion already, but even despite that, it's better to find an Alchemist that can craft Hallowed Waters. Sure, it may cost slightly more, needing Fire/Ice/Light Anima, BUT they are FAR, FAR, FAR more effective than both Holy Water and Cursna, but not 100% effective. I can directly attest to this. Not many alchemists would bother getting 1 key item for 1 synth in the entire game, but I've made my fair share of hallowed waters for tanks I know.


I agree that healing doesnt really seem to effect cursna on doom, but I'd really have to disagree on the hallowed water. I bought 3 stacks to try on bukhis, sadly I went through a whole stack per doom cast. It all seems based on luck, Ive been lucky with holy water and cursna on first trys. Sadly, the cost of making hallowed is far to high for the very slight increase if at all.

[Merton9999]

I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

This is exactly the way I look at it. I play WHM and SCH exclusively in groups anymore, mostly WHM for obvious reasons, but SCH is my favorite. I love the concept of SCH having a unique way to ensure survival as well as WHM, but am very doubtful that SE can pull this off given the last year of lemons the jobs has been stuck with. I'd rather spend the next year with boring Cure V actually using SCH than test out their healing helix and watch it suck.

I also agree with Cure V being available only through Addendum White. I don't want to keep up with WHM and BLM at the same time, I just want to fill either role adequately.

[Fredjan]

I agree that healing doesnt really seem to effect cursna on doom, but I'd really have to disagree on the hallowed water. I bought 3 stacks to try on bukhis, sadly I went through a whole stack per doom cast. It all seems based on luck, Ive been lucky with holy water and cursna on first trys. Sadly, the cost of making hallowed is far to high for the very slight increase if at all.

I have noticed the same thing. Sometimes it won't work at all, sometimes it works on the first water use, sometimes it works on the first cursna. It's hard to really come to a conclusion about it, given what it's based off of. I just go by what I'm told.

[Aleste]

I agree that healing doesnt really seem to effect cursna on doom

I can't say I've ever noticed any sort of conclusive evidence to prove either way...

I'd normally Divine caress (+af3+2 mitts) the first cursna, then keep recasting it in full haste gear.

[Bubeeky]

I'm with you Aleste...I haven't noticed a significant difference in doom-curing success based on healing skill....it would be nice if it did affect it though, as it would be logical for us to have fewer troubles curing it, us being you know...healers >_>

[Ashay]

Adjusting Healing Magic skill to better affect spells such as Cursna would be a great improvement to what we have now, especially when dealing with Doom on multiple people. I definitely think they should adjust the Healing Magic skill to be more powerful for a few other spells as well. Perhaps allow Esuna to cleanse more status ailments the higher your skill so that instead of removing only two, it can remove up to four or five ailments with Afflatus Misery.

Another great addition would be a spell that can remove Amnesia. If they add such a spell, Amnesna for example, it could work similarly to Cursna in that it'd be more accurate the higher your Healing Magic skill is.

As for the Cure V debacle, I feel that Red Mage and Scholar should be able to learn it. It probably wouldn't be usable with Accession, and as White Mage seems to be getting Curaga V by Lv.95, it wouldn't be much of an issue. If they wanted to allow White Mage to maintain its status as the true healing job on XI, then they could always add a job trait that quickens Healing Magic casting similar in effect to Elemental Celerity. Or a job trait that has a chance to reduce the cost of your Healing Magic spells similarly to Conserve MP. Both would be nice, but I'd prefer the latter.

[Bubeeky]

Can we whms get a little love from the devs on the manifesto info?

[Economizer]

At the present time, if another job got Cure V, there would be no reason to play White Mage (as a main healer), except for maybe procs in Abyssea. Don't give me this Cure VI or cure potency crap, both RDM and SCH can cast, recast faster, and have better MP regeneration tools - without having to resort to gear.

On top of that, both jobs have several solid secondary roles they can choose to do in parties aside from just cure botting - enhancing/support, nuking, enfeebling, crowd control. White Mage performs barely decently compared to both when it comes to enhancing/support, where the only major factor White Mage contributes is better magic resistance. White Mage enfeebling is fairly rare. White Mage nukes, at best, outperform a Dark Knight, especially now that Paladin can pack a punch with the occasional Holy (Congrats on that to Paladin by the way). And White Mage's are lucky they even have Repose, but single target sleep isn't exactly crowd control.

Outside of that there is just one thing White Mage can compete at, which would be our melee side. We get all the weapon skills our two weapon (three if throwing counts) selection provides (the only other job in the game limited to two weapons is BLU). We perform competently with both, and are second only to Paladin in Club skill. We have a monopoly on the Club Magian Trials, and a monopoly on the best weapon in the game (which I hope to someday have).

Ignoring Blue Mage, we are the best mage-ish job at melee. And even then, this is slipping. Summoners may soon get access to all weapon skills without having to sport a more melee oriented job, and Red Mages want their melee buffed too. Perhaps some buffs will be in order for them, but please do not forget the powerful, gratuitous amounts of potential you gave to us, and please don't let it languish.

Unlike Black Mage's super comfortable job security in filling a role - any role - White Mage only maintains its position on a paper raft in Ifrit's Cauldron. We could be bumped off at any moment by the ravenous hordes of Scholars that won't rest until we are out of a job, or Red Mages hungering for the days where the could out cure a White Mage.

Twenty-five to thirty-five percent cureskin, and slightly better cure potency gear isn't going to cut it forever, and there are major arguments that other jobs need more curing power. I'm guessing that they'll get their cure power in some way. White Mage either needs to be supreme at what it does, or needs other roles to play.

-

There are a few things that have been said here that have been amazingly insanely good suggestions. I've had a few thoughts too. Some organized thoughs on how to adjust White Mage going forward:

Barlight, and Bardark. For Red Mage too.

Regen cast time should be reduced. Gear and job traits/abilities should not be your answer to this request SE!

Healing Magic Skill should not be useless. This comes on two fronts. First off, Cursna should have better chances at removing Doom if my healing magic skill is higher. Second, the difference between zero skill and capped Healing Magic skill is 30 points of curing for Cure V. This is a major problem. I don't think a Summoner with /WHM should be able to Cure IV as well as a White Mage, and I don't think someone should be able to Abyssea burn a White Mage and cure as much as me without cure bombing undead for a few hours (or I suppose they could just sub Scholar for Light Arts).

A suppressant aura would be very nice with Afflatus Misery, to suppress monster aura effects, but somehow I doubt SE would consider this balanced. Not that having a debuff that cannot be removed on you should be considered balanced.

Afflatus Misery could use a boost.

Benediction is horrifically broken. I know that doing something like removing weakened might be an iffy movement considering that Ninja's 2hour is basically a glorified way to do this, but Amnesia? Mute? Doom? Zombie?

At this point Benediction is just an instant way to pop a Curaga IV and Esuna when you have no MP. Except Curaga IV can be free with the AF3+2 pants under the right circumstances. To be honest, I think all 2hours could use something extra at high levels like what Summoner got. For example, Benediction can actually do what it says, or if the dev team feels generous, even give some extra buff, like absurd amounts of cureskin, or Max MP boost.

White Mage should get Banish IV (maybe even V) and Holy2. These nukes will undoubtedly suck, and not actually help White Mage except for more recast timers for skillups. We know this, just give us them and be over with it.

On that note, Banish and Holy should at least do more damage to undead. Its not like White Mage is gonna suddenly replace Black Mage if we can nuke almost as good as a gimped Red Mage that somehow has no Magic Attack Bonus on one type of mob right?

On Divine Magic, please give White Mage Reposega. Getting ganked by undead sucks.

Charmna is nice and all, but how about removing Amnesia? And as stupid as the mechanic is, at the very least make Silence have a chance of removing Mute, if not outright.

-

And on a final note, since I know SE loves answering questions that sound absurd, and I think this could have a big impact on White Mage regardless of what spells we get to have a monopoly over:

As an experienced healer, I can't help but notice at novice healers who lack skill perform comparably to me. While I appreciate having new faces who are able to keep my comrades alive, it makes me feel like I have failed at honing my skills. What can I do to make my Healing Magic Skill useful?

[Caketime]

Or a job trait that has a chance to reduce the cost of your Healing Magic spells similarly to Conserve MP.

This would be SO awesome, I would take it over every other proposed adjustment.

[Bubeeky]

At the present time, if another job got Cure V, there would be no reason to play White Mage (as a main healer), except for maybe procs in Abyssea. Don't give me this Cure VI or cure potency crap, both RDM and SCH can cast, recast faster, and have better MP regeneration tools - without having to resort to gear.

On top of that, both jobs have several solid secondary roles they can choose to do in parties aside from just cure botting - enhancing/support, nuking, enfeebling, crowd control. White Mage performs barely decently compared to both when it comes to enhancing/support, where the only major factor White Mage contributes is better magic resistance. White Mage enfeebling is fairly rare. White Mage nukes, at best, outperform a Dark Knight, especially now that Paladin can pack a punch with the occasional Holy (Congrats on that to Paladin by the way). And White Mage's are lucky they even have Repose, but single target sleep isn't exactly crowd control.

Outside of that there is just one thing White Mage can compete at, which would be our melee side. We get all the weapon skills our two weapon (three if throwing counts) selection provides (the only other job in the game limited to two weapons is BLU). We perform competently with both, and are second only to Paladin in Club skill. We have a monopoly on the Club Magian Trials, and a monopoly on the best weapon in the game (which I hope to someday have).

Ignoring Blue Mage, we are the best mage-ish job at melee. And even then, this is slipping. Summoners may soon get access to all weapon skills without having to sport a more melee oriented job, and Red Mages want their melee buffed too. Perhaps some buffs will be in order for them, but please do not forget the powerful, gratuitous amounts of potential you gave to us, and please don't let it languish.

Unlike Black Mage's super comfortable job security in filling a role - any role - White Mage only maintains its position on a paper raft in Ifrit's Cauldron. We could be bumped off at any moment by the ravenous hordes of Scholars that won't rest until we are out of a job, or Red Mages hungering for the days where the could out cure a White Mage.

Twenty-five to thirty-five percent cureskin, and slightly better cure potency gear isn't going to cut it forever, and there are major arguments that other jobs need more curing power. I'm guessing that they'll get their cure power in some way. White Mage either needs to be supreme at what it does, or needs other roles to play.

-

There are a few things that have been said here that have been amazingly insanely good suggestions. I've had a few thoughts too. Some organized thoughs on how to adjust White Mage going forward:

Barlight, and Bardark. For Red Mage too.

Regen cast time should be reduced. Gear and job traits/abilities should not be your answer to this request SE!

Healing Magic Skill should not be useless. This comes on two fronts. First off, Cursna should have better chances at removing Doom if my healing magic skill is higher. Second, the difference between zero skill and capped Healing Magic skill is 30 points of curing for Cure V. This is a major problem. I don't think a Summoner with /WHM should be able to Cure IV as well as a White Mage, and I don't think someone should be able to Abyssea burn a White Mage and cure as much as me without cure bombing undead for a few hours (or I suppose they could just sub Scholar for Light Arts).

A suppressant aura would be very nice with Afflatus Misery, to suppress monster aura effects, but somehow I doubt SE would consider this balanced. Not that having a debuff that cannot be removed on you should be considered balanced.

Afflatus Misery could use a boost.

Benediction is horrifically broken. I know that doing something like removing weakened might be an iffy movement considering that Ninja's 2hour is basically a glorified way to do this, but Amnesia? Mute? Doom? Zombie?

At this point Benediction is just an instant way to pop a Curaga IV and Esuna when you have no MP. Except Curaga IV can be free with the AF3+2 pants under the right circumstances. To be honest, I think all 2hours could use something extra at high levels like what Summoner got. For example, Benediction can actually do what it says, or if the dev team feels generous, even give some extra buff, like absurd amounts of cureskin, or Max MP boost.

White Mage should get Banish IV (maybe even V) and Holy2. These nukes will undoubtedly suck, and not actually help White Mage except for more recast timers for skillups. We know this, just give us them and be over with it.

On that note, Banish and Holy should at least do more damage to undead. Its not like White Mage is gonna suddenly replace Black Mage if we can nuke almost as good as a gimped Red Mage that somehow has no Magic Attack Bonus on one type of mob right?

On Divine Magic, please give White Mage Reposega. Getting ganked by undead sucks.

Charmna is nice and all, but how about removing Amnesia? And as stupid as the mechanic is, at the very least make Silence have a chance of removing Mute, if not outright.

-

And on a final note, since I know SE loves answering questions that sound absurd, and I think this could have a big impact on White Mage regardless of what spells we get to have a monopoly over:

As an experienced healer, I can't help but notice at novice healers who lack skill perform comparably to me. While I appreciate having new faces who are able to keep my comrades alive, it makes me feel like I have failed at honing my skills. What can I do to make my Healing Magic Skill useful?

Totally agree...I've fought with sch's an' rdm's before on this subject, and they don't seem to remember that not too long ago, whm was all but obsolete because we couldn't compete for MP restoration....we're getting a tiny bit of glory now and sch/rdm want it, yet then they turn around and claim to not want to be put in a healer's role....

I would fully support having multiple classes that can heal...IF each one of those classes brought something unique and worthwhile to the table that cannot be gotten any other way, not just cutting and pasting whm's stuff to other, more MP-efficient jobs...besides, it's been said before, but it definitely bears repeating...a hybrid mage (rdm or sch) should NOT be able to outclass a specialty mage...the benefit of being a specialty mage is that we have more power than a hybrid, in exchange for losing the hybrid's versatility!

[Economizer]

Or a job trait that has a chance to reduce the cost of your Healing Magic spells similarly to Conserve MP. Both would be nice, but I'd prefer the latter.

I meant to mention this in my post but forgot. Except we sort of have a template for this to some extent - the AF3 pants. With the fully upgraded pants you can supposedly get back the entire cost of MP of what you put into a spell but not a point more, if you do a Curaga or Ascension a Cure IV, you can get free cures if people are wounded enough.

That said, I have doubts that SE would give us more of this as a job trait, although it would certainly be nice to get a small boost of this on top of the pants 2-5%. A 5% savings already translates to roughly a 25%-40% savings for Cure I-V, while a 10% savings would cheapen spells 60-80%, and a 15% savings would make the majority of cures free, meaning that even small numbers have great affect. As a White Mage, I would gladly give up exclusivity of Cure V for an extra 10% of this trait on top of what the AF3 pants already gives, but this would be completely broken.

And although I've posted many suggestions, I still have to be firm that Healing Magic Skill should affect debuff removal and cures more. Looking quickly at the JP forums using a machine translator, I see something similar, and I suspect that SE will answer us about this soon. Perhaps if we lay down the pressure (or alternatively, bribe Camate) we might not only get an answer, but a promise that SE will adjust this skill to play a bigger part into cures. After all, Summoners got a change to their skill that made it matter. Worst thing that could happen is that we get another undead slaying session with 99999 damage cures.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Cure potentcy merits please.

[Economizer]

Cure Potency caps at 50%, so unless you mean a job trait that bypass the gear cap, this would be fairly pointless for White Mage, as it isn't too hard to cap Cure Potency.

As for whether or not they should be merits in the first place is also a point, every White Mage should get increased Cure Potency, because what would you merit over Cure Potency that ignores the current gear cap? Basically, it would be like our current category 1 merit category of "Bar Spell Effect". Who would merit something else? That said, I don't exactly expect SE to make White Mage have a hard choice of what to merit now or in the future.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It would be immensly useful ragardless of the cap.

[Sylvr]

Cure Potency merits would be awesome even if they counted toward the cap as they would free up gear slots for stuff like -Enmity and MND.

[Eldelphia]

It would be nice to see Bene remove more than it does but honestly I think Zombie is an interesting game mechanic and I can't see them including that.

Healing magic effectiveness I agree on utterly. Mine's capped but seeing BRDs, subbing WHM removing Doom when I can't... sucks.

Barstunra, Barlumina and Barnocta would be great along with some way of removing Amnesia.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Benediction weakness away, it is a 2hr ability after all.

[Ashay]

Cure Potency merits would be nice for better equipment options, but I'd only get them if it was a Group III merit. Cure Cast Time and Bar Spell Potency merits are too nice.

If they don't add Reviviscence for players, then they should buff Benediction to remove Doom, ST20, Amnesia and Weakness. How about Raise IV with no weakness?

[Bubeeky]

how about raise IV = aoe raise?

[Economizer]

I've seen two White Mages building a multihitter in my server in the last two days, while I was doing the same. At least one if not both of them were JP players too, with some gear better then me.

It always warms my heart to see a White Mage melee things down.

I really hope that in the next update SE won't forget about our melee side, especially if they give away even more of our abilities and spells to other classes. On that note, silly question format:

As a White Mage, I've noticed a distinct desire for my most potent spells and abilities by others, an alarming amount of anger towards White Mage for having these. Are there any ways I can augment my combat abilities to defend myself from these undesired advances?

[Bubeeky]

I've seen two White Mages building a multihitter in my server in the last two days, while I was doing the same. At least one if not both of them were JP players too, with some gear better then me.

It always warms my heart to see a White Mage melee things down.

I really hope that in the next update SE won't forget about our melee side, especially if they give away even more of our abilities and spells to other classes. On that note, silly question format:

As a White Mage, I've noticed a distinct desire for my most potent spells and abilities by others, an alarming amount of anger towards White Mage for having these. Are there any ways I can augment my combat abilities to defend myself from these undesired advances?

lol Econ they are just mad that we whms are finally getting a little of the glory that they had at 75, and they don't know how to deal with not being choice #1 for healing in pt's anymore :)

[Economizer]

lol Econ they are just mad that we whms are finally getting a little of the glory that they had at 75, and they don't know how to deal with not being choice #1 for healing in pt's anymore :)

It isn't just jobs that want more healing though. Summoners want to be able to use more Staff WS without /WHM so they can melee more, and Scholars want them because they aren't happy unless they've put Black Mage, Red Mage, and White Mage out of a job. And while, despite the fact that Summoners already have a solid way to deal damage without melee (something White Mage pretty much lacks) I can see maybe Summoner deserving some, what does this leave White Mage in terms of a class role? Does this mean Black Mage, Bard, and Dragoon will also get these natively? Where does it stop?

As a sub, White Mage won't be the only job with Haste available forever, and I have doubts that many jobs will be subbing White Mage for Repose at those higher levels. Either Red Mage for Haste, Enspells, Barspells, Ice Spikes, Phalanx, Sleep II, easier Sleep/Dispel, up to Cure IV, and MP longevity (and if your a SCH, Magic Attack Bonus), or Scholar for debuff removal, up to Cure III, MP longevity, Light Arts/Dark Arts (better Sleep/Aspir) and Sleep/Dispel.

Basically, the fact that White Mage is the only mage class (does PLD count?) that gets advanced Staff WS is a major part of the current game balance currently, and a major part of what the White Mage class offers as a sub. It isn't like it is unfair to have to make sacrifices when choosing a sub, that's the nature of the sub job system. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Sorry to be such a downer. It is just refreshing to see someone who isn't all angry about White Mage actually having some traits unique to it, but more importantly, being good at what it does. :p

[Merton9999]

My only problem with SCH getting cure V is the amount of potency they can end up with.... 38% in gear, then +60% with AF3+2 head.

38% non weather-related gear. Add 10% for Korin Obi + 5% for Twilight Cape. Most SCHs (including me) are asking for double weather effects as well, meaning 30% of weather-related cure potency we can full-time with Aurorastorm that is not subject to the 50% gear cap (I think). If we don't get double weather, we're still at 53% currently with Aurorastorm and no Rapture. As much as I love SCH, I think even my WHM would be jealous of 68% cure potency. My solution is to remove the gear cap! I think WHM can reach 70% with some Facio luck?

EDIT: TimeMage pointed out in the SCH thread that the weather bonus is actually multiplicative after the gear bonus is applied, which I had missed looking at the Wiki formula. So it actually looks like a max potency set on SCH now can go 59%, and with double weather would be able to reach 81%. Unless the Obi and Cape are added first , then it would only be 79% with double weather.

[Bubeeky]

38% non weather-related gear. Add 10% for Korin Obi + 5% for Twilight Cape. Most SCHs (including me) are asking for double weather effects as well, meaning 30% of weather-related cure potency we can full-time with Aurorastorm that is not subject to the 50% gear cap (I think). If we don't get double weather, we're still at 53% currently with Aurorastorm and no Rapture. As much as I love SCH, I think even my WHM would be jealous of 68% cure potency. My solution is to remove the gear cap! I think WHM can reach 70% with some Facio luck?

I think we need something other than just removing the cap....removing the cap on cure potency might be a temporary fix but in the long run, ppl will need some other kind of uniqueness from a whm's cures for us to be able to compete with the MP efficiency of a sch or rdm

[Merton9999]

I think we need something other than just removing the cap....removing the cap on cure potency might be a temporary fix but in the long run, ppl will need some other kind of uniqueness from a whm's cures for us to be able to compete with the MP efficiency of a sch or rdm

Overall I definitely agree for post-Abyssea content. My gear cap removal suggestion was specifically for addressing just the potency comparison issue.

[Economizer]

Glad to see a place where Cure VI is wisely not considered in discussions when talking about giving other jobs Cure V. Removing the gear potency cap would make the AF3+2 body fairly useless outside of overheals and the extra MP/tic refresh.

Oh, that and White Mages would be able to get up to 80% Cure Potency in gear (83% with Dual Wield). This would be very expensive and hard to do, but here is a break down:




Actually, if you want to go even further, White Mage could hit 20% more in Abyssea:
Atma of the Rescuer (10%)
Atma of Harmony (10%)

So inside Abyssea, White Mage could hit 100% (103% Dual Wield). But wait! There's more! If you get a Healing Feather, you can get 20 charges of a 3 minute boost of 15%, meaning White Mage could hit 115% (117% DW).

With this much cure potency, Cure IV essentially does what Cure V does without any potency. If you choose to never wear the ASA augmented pants in favor of the AF3+2 pants (for cheaper cures), and ignore the feather, you still get 95% inside Abyssea, 75% outside, you'll get roughly half cost cures, and you can pick up a free cure every two minutes with /SCH and Penury inside Abyssea.

That said, it is expensive enough to gear a White Mage without having to get a Roundel Earring and Fylgja Torque +1 to become more efficient, and the odds of getting a good Facio are terrible its almost not worth counting as gear WHM can get. So even if I could hit 83% with the best Facio possible, and the ASA pants instead of AF3, if Scholar got 79% from double weather effects and Cure V, I think I'd have to grab two Clubs and start teaching Scholar all about the only other thing White Mage is the best at.

I don't think that removing the cure potency cap for gear is a good solution. I also don't think that Scholar should get Cure V, especially under this new information that they could reach 58% cure potency (72% in Abyssea), at the least until new options are explored.

Also, I think that Scholars aren't going to get double weather effects unless SE wants them to be overpowered again in general. Unless SE plans on giving Black Mage tier VI nukes that don't suck or something, or some other major leap ahead it won't balance out on their side. And unless SE plans on making Cure IV require Addendum: White, giving White Mage A+ Club skill, native Parrying, Dual Wield I, and something that gives 5% of cure amount back as MP, or some other drastic changes, they won't balance out on the White Mage side either.

Also SE, that's the cost of Scholar or Red Mage getting Cure V. We get Club raised to A+, Parrying E or better, and Dual Wield I or better, and a native trait that gives us an effect like our AF3 pants, of at least 2% (much higher if Scholar also gets double weather effects).

Additionally, it wouldn't hurt you to give us new shields that do something beyond what Genbu's, the Muse Tariqah, or the Bloodbead Ecu do. We have higher skill then Red Mage, or Thief and they seemed to have gotten several past 75 while we just got tagged on the Ecu. A double attack shield would make everyone happy and you could slap the letters WHM on it in addition to the usual list of jobs.

Something else SE could do to differentiate healing power in general would be to make healing magic skill affect spells more, especially on skill past the B+ mark. There should be a major, not just minor difference between someone who has capped healing magic skill and someone who does not. There should also be a reason why White Mage has an A+ in the skill, and this should be something major too.

While I'm talking about White Mage in general, Afflatus Misery could use a boost. This could come from adjustments, like making damage add up like healing does for Solace, or come from traits, abilities, and spells White Mage gets, or gear. Or even a mix of the three. Ever since the combined blows of the Auspice nerf and the AF3 body's effect, it hasn't been the same.

[Bubeeky]

I would love to see the cure formula adjusted to include healing magic skill more heavily...I think at this point, capped healing magic skill adds a grand total of like....50 hp to cures, and from other posts and personal experience, healing magic doesn't seem to affect a great deal of anything besides interruption rate...perhaps SE could look into changing that?

[Retsujo]

I don't know about you, but I never found it very expensive to get cure potency gear.

Surya's Staff +2, Orison Cap +2, Noble's Tunic, Orison Cape, and Serpentes armor set caps cure potency as it is now. Get a Facio with 10% and refresh instead of Noble's and every bit of that is free.

[Economizer]

It isn't expensive to cap cure potency as a White Mage anymore because of the fact that it does cap. Imagine if you had to wear every piece of expensive gear (Roundel, Fylgja Torque +1) just to get a slight edge over classes that can also nuke almost as well as a Black Mage too.

I was a bit erroneous to say that it was, but I was also considering the possibility of when you want to cap cure potency without the body piece for the 5-10% cureskin boost the body provides. Well, that and I should have used the word "hard" instead of expensive. I may have a Surya's Staff +2, but many White Mages I see still cure in something you could have before level 70, so I can only assume it is hard for most players (well, the beast killer portion of it was hard for me).

[Bubeeky]

It isn't expensive to cap cure potency as a White Mage anymore because of the fact that it does cap. Imagine if you had to wear every piece of expensive gear (Roundel, Fylgja Torque +1) just to get a slight edge over classes that can also nuke almost as well as a Black Mage too.

I was a bit erroneous to say that it was, but I was also considering the possibility of when you want to cap cure potency without the body piece for the 5-10% cureskin boost the body provides. Well, that and I should have used the word "hard" instead of expensive. I may have a Surya's Staff +2, but many White Mages I see still cure in something you could have before level 70, so I can only assume it is hard for most players (well, the beast killer portion of it was hard for me).

That's my problem with just simply removing the cap...one, it's hard/expensive to get all the items you mentioned, as not everyone has the resources to aquire the items, even if you are a dedicated whm...and two like you said, all those items together would give us a miniscule edge over other jobs that are effective nukers and efficient as mp use as well, not to mention the fact that if we really looked at it, how useful would that be? I mean outside of Abyssea, no one has the hp to justify cure V regularly, let alone cure VI, especially if you're curing for +50% cure potency...adding 30%+ to that cure potency won't change that, as such we need something more unique for our cures than just a cure pot cap removal.

PS, just throwing this out there as I'm honestly curious...if you guys use the medicine ring (the +10% cure pot ring) how do you constantly keep your hp low enough to get the bonus? the 10% would be wonderful, but I can't see how I'd get around a pretty potent regen JT...

[Economizer]

PS, just throwing this out there as I'm honestly curious...if you guys use the medicine ring (the +10% cure pot ring) how do you constantly keep your hp low enough to get the bonus? the 10% would be wonderful, but I can't see how I'd get around a pretty potent regen JT...

Personally, I don't use the ring because I cap cure potency without it (although I'm considering getting one for when I'm engaging in a beatdown and not wearing my AF3 cap, who knows).

Macroing in gear that lowers your HP or converts HP->MP then switching out of it is one way, putting on gear that gives +HP is another. If you have the Zenith set, or a bifrost ring, or a serket ring, these make wonderful tools for this. If you are inside Abyssea, you can cancel your Max HP buff and it will come right back and put you into the yellow. If you decide you want to use this ring, beware undead, especially since SE doesn't let us oneshot them with cure anymore. D:

And of course, /SCH's Sublimation will counter your Regen while it is up, with an added bonus of making you immune to sleep effects and giving you MP.

-

If you are having issues capping cure potency, the easiest gear to get to get to cap would probably by Noble's Tunic, Orison Cap +2, Surya's Staff +2, Augur's Gloves, Orison Earring, Orison Cape, which will put you at 51% to be sure you hit the 50% cap. If you have questions about the Staff, the wiki doesn't always explain the easiest way to do a trial adequately, although the light damage trial is pretty much "the" hard trial of the bunch. For the Augur's Gloves and the Orison Earring, either shout groups or begging off gear will work. You will probably need help getting the cape, preferably from a Monk friend who can cover any procs you miss - you will hate Marvin because he is often camped and rarely drops the cape even with a blue proc... at least compared to other gear. The hat +2 items can be difficult to get if you don't have some friends or the ability to solo a mob that drops on of the +2 items at a time.

[Bubeeky]

Thanks for the info econ :) I'm actually pretty good on cure pot gear, I'm just sitting at like 43% or something right now, so it's a work in progress and I've always avoided the medicine ring because of the hp/regen issue, but if there's reliable ways around that, I'll invest in one so I can free up my other slots :)

I've been building my cure pot set for a while, and the biggest reason that it's not capped atm is because I'm trying to avoid having to go back to the noble's tunic or fascio's thing so I can use my af3+2...the addition to my cureskin and refresh really helps out too much to exchange it for some basic cure potency if I can swing it in other slots :)

[Economizer]

If you can, get medals for WotG in Windurst and pray your server gets Plucking Wings access. I'm 1-2 days from the evaluation that will get me the medal, and my server has access this week. Sooo close.

[Economizer]

I finally got the medal! Now to get into a party for it. Does anyone know what is considered fair for drop rules on Plucking Wings fights are? The fight isn't exactly and easy two man, and the drop rate is about 20%.

[Bubeeky]

That's awesome dude! GL with the fight! As for drop rules, personally, I'd go with friends and make an agreement with 'em to ensure they let the Roundel Earring go to you

[Economizer]

I'd go with friends

The problem with this is that I'd have to convince the few people I know who have high enough rankings to drop two medals to switch to Windurst. I don't really see any reason people from other nations shouldn't be able to participate in Plucking Wings though, even if SE deemed that they'd have to spend twice as many Op Credits or whatever.

[Economizer]

Update incoming. It was the last post (even after WAR) but we're getting it at last! Anyone who says we aren't entitled to our own complaints can go attack Nidhogg solo. :mad:

Pretty garbled machine translation, but I'm pretty sure Holy 2 and a bit of Amnesiana (but removed like Doom) is coming.

As a note, random chances are not cool SE. If you really must use them, we won't understand unless you make healing magic skill affect it more. Also, Benediction should be 100%.

[Bubeeky]

As a note, random chances are not cool SE. If you really must use them, we won't understand unless you make healing magic skill affect it more. Also, Benediction should be 100%.

Totally agree....healing magic needs to be revamped in its usefulness

[Camate]

To the ones who keep us all safe on the battlefields, white mages, here is your feedback :)



Add Holy II.

We will be adding this in the upcoming version update.


Add Arise.

Though it is planned for a version update in the future, we have already begun to look into a higher tier version of raise.

Whether it will be called Arise or not really depends on the adjustments from here on out, but we are looking into making it cover multiple targets and other things. In regards to the stats, we’d like to make it so it has more merits than the currently existing raises, so please look forward to it.


Add a spell that cures Amnesia.

We would like to make it possible to cure Amnesia in the future, but we are planning to make it a type of magic that has a set chance of recovery similar to Doom.


Add a spell that cures Terror.

We currently do not have any plans of adding a spell that cures Terror. Since the effect of Terror is quickly recovered from, we’d like you to just support those inflicted with Terror with cures and such while they are unable move.

While it is not limited to Terror, we feel that there are times it is necessary for monsters to have superior status ailments in the scheme of battle balance. As such, please understand that we will not be making it possible to cure every single status ailment.


Make it so the chances of curing Doom increase with higher healing magic skill.

Since there is also Holy Water when curing this is difficult, we’d like to monitor the current rate. Though it depends on luck and repeated attempts, but the recovery rate was set rather high so it can be cured before the countdown timer reaches zero.


Reduce the recast times of Erase/Esuna/Sacrifice.

We would like to reduce the recast times for Esuna and Sacrifice to be about the same as Erase.

For Erase, since it is able to cover multiple status ailments, we feel that the current recast time is appropriate.


Reduce the weakness timer or add other merits to Raise II and III.

Since the lost experience points merit has become somewhat weak now, we will look into this. However, as we will not be removing the weakness penalty, we cannot really reduce it too much.


Make it so the effect of Divine Caress becomes AoE when using Divine Seal.

AoE…Sounds cool. We will look into it.


Increase the effect of bar-type spells.

Currently you are able to receive a pretty strong effect depending on the bonuses that are given based on your enhancing magic skill. Also, with future level cap increases, you will be able to receive an even higher bonus, so for now we will be monitoring this and make a decision to do something if it is necessary.


Add bar-type spells that protect you from Light and Dark.

The magic capacity is becoming pretty full, but we will try and look into it.


Make it so bar-type effects are not overwritten by weaker ones.

This is something that we have been concerned with and would like to make it so they are not overwritten. The concern here is that if it’s not the same effect or higher, if the effect doesn’t wear off or if you don’t cancel the effect you will not be able to reapply it, making it similar to Protect IV and V.


Make it so enhancing magic AoE effects take place centered on the person targeted.

Since AoE effects are strong, the idea is that you are taking a risk by the effect being centered on the caster. Curega is an exception to this, but it is balanced through a high amount of enmity.


Add a category to merit points that enhances cure potency.


Since cure potency enhancements were designed to be added through equipment, we do not have any plans of adding it to merit points. Currently you can gain a significant amount of enhanced cure potency by collecting equipment, so please try and collect those pieces.

[SpankWustler]

We would like to make it possible to cure Amnesia in the future, but we are planning to make it a type of magic that has a set chance of recovery similar to Doom.

I like this. It adds to White Mage's theme without making the status ailment a complete joke.



We currently do not have any plans of adding a spell that cures Terror. Since the effect of Terror is quickly recovered from, we’d like you to just support those inflicted with Terror with cures and such while they are unable move.

While it is not limited to Terror, we feel that there are times it is necessary for monsters to have superior status ailments in the scheme of battle balance. As such, please understand that we will not be making it possible to cure every single status ailment.

I like this. Terror is a rare status effect and generally brief, so it would be cool if it remained...uh...terrifying.


We would like to reduce the recast times for Esuna and Sacrifice to be about the same as Erase.

For Erase, since it is able to cover multiple status ailments, we feel that the current recast time is appropriate.

Mathematical! While I definitely wouldn't complain if the Erase recast timer were lower, I understand this logic and a lowered recast on Esuna would make the spell much more viable.


AoE…Sounds cool. We will look into it.

Feels good man.


Currently you are able to receive a pretty strong effect depending on the bonuses that are given based on your enhancing magic skill. Also, with future level cap increases, you will be able to receive an even higher bonus, so for now we will be monitoring this and make a decision to do something if it is necessary.


Since cure potency enhancements were designed to be added through equipment, we do not have any plans of adding it to merit points. Currently you can gain a significant amount of enhanced cure potency by collecting equipment, so please try and collect those pieces.

I like both of these because of the general theme of "Expect a player dedicated to the job to out-perform a mule with a Light Staff". Both of these aspects of White Mage are greatly enhanced by equipment, and I'm happier than a clam who has just seen his arch-nemesis baked that meaningful equipment for White Mage has been steadily increasing.

Some new things would be nice just to have variety, though. Any news on the new spell or ability that would increase magic defense, or what became of it?

[Leonlionheart]

Camate, I completely agree and support this update.

[Deadvinta]

The magic capacity is becoming pretty full, but we will try and look into it.

If you mean the magic capacity of the entire game... it's because you add a thousand blue magic spells in almost every patch.

[Mightyg]

Welcome adjustments, but pretty boring as well. Give us something to look forward to.

[Bubeeky]

I can't speak for others but when I mention anything about increasing the effect of bar spells, I'm not talking about the elemental ones, they have enough power....I'm talking about the bar status spells, which are total crap because they don't prevent a damn thing, since being whm we're expected (rightly so) to cure statuses before the barspell gets a chance to do anything....can we get a change to bar status spells where it like, prevents a status flat out for a certain number of times or something?

[Bubeeky]

Double post I know, but I'm just thrilled about the upcoming update....we get to keep cure V :) I can't wait to try the new JA too :)

[kingfury]

Multi-target Raises?! Yes Please! ^^

Overall, these should be interesting additions to WHM! Holy II will be added as well I see :) Please pass it along Camate that WHMs need a more reliable way to "boost" their Divine Magic dmg along with our new shiny Holy II ^^ Even with tons of +Magic attack gear and MND stacked up plus the TotMs affinity light staff, Divine Magic dmg is pretty meh. Would love to see more attention paid to our ability to bolster out specialty of Divine magic damage potential areas.

Other than that, See if you can slip in a request for more WHM DD-specific gear too Camate ^.~ Finding WHM leg gear with decent STR on it is like trying to find your missing Left sock... that's been missing for weeks... so y'know... it's like, basically none existent.

[Alkimi]

Multi-target Raises?! Yes Please! ^^

Overall, these should be interesting additions to WHM! Holy II will be added as well I see :) Please pass it along Camate that WHMs need a more reliable way to "boost" their Divine Magic dmg along with our new shiny Holy II ^^ Even with tons of +Magic attack gear and MND stacked up plus the TotMs affinity light staff, Divine Magic dmg is pretty meh. Would love to see more attention paid to our ability to bolster out specialty of Divine magic damage potential areas.

Other than that, See if you can slip in a request for more WHM DD-specific gear too Camate ^.~ Finding WHM leg gear with decent STR on it is like trying to find your missing Left sock... that's been missing for weeks... so y'know... it's like, basically none existent.

Fully Charged Holy is already about ~900 damage outside abyssea and over 2k inside with allure/minkin/beyond atmas. Judging by the version mobs use Holy II fully charged will probably one-shot 'regular' mobs in abyssea if you're geared and atma'd up for it. Overall holy is probably fine as it is.

As far as using Misery to enhance banish I don't think anyone does it. In the rare situations where Afflatus Misery is useful the 'charge' I get from taking damage is almost always used on Cura II. Maybe if we'd got Banish IV it might be worth it but doubt it will ever happen.

And yeah some melee orientated gear would be nice. My DD gear is almost all the same as it was at 75 save for Zelus Tiara and a couple of rings/earrings.

Curaga V is probably overkill and in the dats it costs 450 MP to cast.

[Economizer]

I doubt Curaga V will be as useful as Curaga IV if SE makes it anything like Cure VI (overpriced and underpowered). Still, it could have potential, assuming that the cost/potency fits the other Curaga spells, but perhaps with a enmity reduction (this could be a dangerous addition though, in terms of balance). In the rare case where you are full curing an entire party for free (with AF3+2 pants) you still have Curaga IV, but I would like to see a new cure spell that isn't the letdown that Cure VI was.

[Retsujo]

You must mean something like Cura III!

Really though, I was expecting something like Curasa, where it would have some sort of added benefit (such as a link to solace)

[Ahrana]

I feel that white mage is pretty complete right now. Maybe a spell or two for completeness, a couple of spells tweeked, and a merit review when it rolls around. Otherwise, white mage is probably the strongest (and most necessary) job in the game.

[Economizer]

I felt that the White Mage manifesto may have been a bit unclear at points. As such, here is a question about on particular part that is bothering me.



Make it so the chances of curing Doom increase with higher healing magic skill.

Since there is also Holy Water when curing this is difficult, we’d like to monitor the current rate. Though it depends on luck and repeated attempts, but the recovery rate was set rather high so it can be cured before the countdown timer reaches zero.

I interpret this to mean that Healing Magic does not affect the rate of removing Cursna. Is it true that Healing Magic currently does not affect removal rates?

[Bubeeky]

what I'd like to know about that post is what they classify as high....I've had doom counters where there's two or three whms casting cursna and the person in question spamming holy waters and no one can do a damn thing...how the hell does that count as high recovery rate?

[Economizer]

I was gonna ask why Benediction doesn't have a 100% chance to remove Doom either, but one step at a time. Maybe our calm reserve will get the community team to bask in some easy questions and answer stuff for us... of course, that is if members of some more hot-headed jobs don't convince them that White Mage is overpowered and doesn't need any attention.

[DebbieGibson]

I have been very lucky in that holy waters + cursna combined have always worked great for me!

[Bubeeky]

That's awesome Debbie :D

I just think that it's crap that they claim to have the doom recovery rate set "high" when ppl have to spam item use and spells at the same time to have a relatively remote chance to life....I know this is preaching to the choir, but we're not talking about curing something like amnesia, which can be worked around if we can't cure it, we're talking about a cheap ass move/debuff/spell/whatever it classifies as that can take a completely buffed, 4k HP mnk from 100% health to 0 in 10 seconds, no questions asked...we need to have a better response for such a powerful attack.

[Economizer]

The issue is that SE already said clearly that they want there to be super powerful debuffs. While I disagree that anything shouldn't be healable by Benediction (since currently this two hour's only real benefit is being instant), I understand.

I mainly want a very clear answer as to if healing magic actually affects heal rates at all.

While we're at it, maybe we can get a clear answer of if SE was talking about barelement or barailment spells when they answered... I think they answered about barelement, which very few people were asking about increasing the potency of - when most people wanted an answer about barailment spells.

Maybe we won't get our desired changes to the barailment spells (make them useful), but a clear answer would be very helpful for me in deciding if I should ever cast them. Currently, the barailment spells could be removed from the game to make room for other things and I don't think anyone would miss them, however.

[Jerbob]

I have a couple of queries about some of the recent feedback - which is really great to see, by the way, thank you!


Since AoE effects are strong, the idea is that you are taking a risk by the effect being centered on the caster. Curaga is an exception to this, but it is balanced through a high amount of enmity.
The main reason I think the white mage community would like targettable area of effect enhancing magic (especially barspells and auspice) is that sometimes we are literally too busy to worry about moving and losing time better spent casting. If I'm the only healer in a party then sometimes I've got a backlog of three or four spells in my head that I have to get through, all the time. This is especially true for monsters that have AoE status effect abilities, dispelga (or my worst nightmare, Dispel-all-ga) and the like. If I have to run into range, wait for a second so I don't interrupt my casting through lag, cast the spell and run back out of range, I've now got five or six things that need doing. Fast Cast is a godsend but it's not chainspell!

Please don't misinterpret me - as a white mage I love to be busy, and being able to prioritise spells and remember what needs doing is a skill that we have to learn. The little things are important though, and targettable AoE enhancing spells would be an absolute joy to have. I can appreciate the risk factor, but practically speaking I don't think it makes a difference - a good white mage can tell when it's safe to put up a barspell or reapply shellra and when it's not, it's the time that's the issue. If the developers could reconsider this decision then, like I said, it'd be an absolute joy to use.


We would like to make it possible to cure Amnesia in the future, but we are planning to make it a type of magic that has a set chance of recovery similar to Doom.
I can fully appreciate some status effects like Amnesia being designed to be very powerful and debilitating. However, spamming "Amnesna", as white mages have to spam Cursna for Doom currently, would just be frustrating and would waste time. Perhaps, instead, have "Amnesna" not explicitly remove the Amnesia status but instead have a one-off significant reduction in the duration of the effect after it has been applied - almost a reverse bar-status. This would preserve Amnesia's debilitating effect but avoid the need to spam spells. Even if the duration reduction of "Amnesna" was semi-random - which would be in line with Cursna's effect on Doom - it'd be workable as a compromise between Doom's urgency of removal and Amnesia's high inconvenience but non-critical nature.

[DebbieGibson]

I can fully appreciate some status effects like Amnesia being designed to be very powerful and debilitating. However, spamming "Amnesna", as white mages have to spam Cursna for Doom currently, would just be frustrating and would waste time. Perhaps, instead, have "Amnesna" not explicitly remove the Amnesia status but instead have a one-off significant reduction in the duration of the effect after it has been applied - almost a reverse bar-status. This would preserve Amnesia's debilitating effect but avoid the need to spam spells. Even if the duration reduction of "Amnesna" was semi-random - which would be in line with Cursna's effect on Doom - it'd be workable as a compromise between Doom's urgency of removal and Amnesia's high inconvenience but non-critical nature.

This guy is right, if it works like cursna, I would simply never cast it.

[Camate]

Happy Monday!

In the upcoming version update we will be adjusting the casting range of Holy.

This has already been implemented on the test server, so go check it out :)

[Bubeeky]

Was the casting range of Holy ever a significant issue?

[Anathiel]

Was the casting range of Holy ever a significant issue?

More than you could ever know.

[Kogenta]

Was the casting range of Holy ever a significant issue?

Actually it is when you have to trigger yellow weakness on a mob and is risky to come closer, since Holy cast range is significantly lower than other spells. IE trigger !! on Chloris

[Vold]

Holy is really strange. It seems positioning is everything. Generally it's pretty small but sometimes if you position just right you can get it to 20+ yalms. I can only do it when I can get some elevation over the monster, I think.

[Bubeeky]

What I mean is, I would rather they have increased the power of Holy or reduced the MP cost or something....range of Holy has never really been a huge deal to me, compared to the other issues I have with it.

[Economizer]

The last time SE adjusted something about White Mage (as in not adding something, but changing the way something works) that I can remember was the massive gimp to Auspice. I remember seeing the update notes saying that they were changing the accuracy since it gave a different amount then intended, but the second I read that I knew in my heart that they were gimping it. It was always a pain to keep up full time to keep the accuracy buff, but I was sad to see the change. :(

They'll probably be increasing the range of Holy (I'm not decided on if I should join the test server yet), but it still scares me whenever I see a note about a change without info on it being increased or decreased.

[Vortex]

Now that i think about it, why can't benediction remove EVERYTHING including doom, amnesia, it is a 2 hour ability after all and that would be the entire reason for using it other then full hp.

[SpankWustler]

No one testing Holy and Holy II has mentioned a need to stand inside the target's nasal cavity, so I assume the range has been increased. Hopefully it has the same range as normal magic, now.

[Mightyg]

Now if they'd just give all divine magic more comparable damage to blm or even rdm, maybe there would actually be a point to wanting better casting range. Not expecting holy II to be meteor or anything, but at least get them up to 3/4 the power of similar level/mp cost nukes.

[Daba]

Well that is good news if that means I wouldn't have to get close to Chloris to cast Holy or Flash ;; I've fallen N number of times to his scream already lol

[Dragoy]

Make it so the chances of curing Doom increase with higher healing magic skill.

Since there is also Holy Water when curing this is difficult, we’d like to monitor the current rate. Though it depends on luck and repeated attempts, but the recovery rate was set rather high so it can be cured before the countdown timer reaches zero. Well, I am used to my bad luck, so for me it is normal that 'rather high' would mean 'very low' but even so, I would hope the chances were at least increased, because most of the time when I have been doomed and literally spamming holy water AND cursna I would still fall to the ground. I actually might consider it the second most cheat move after Death which some monsters use in a form or another...

I would go so far as to rather remove the whole ability to cure the effect altogether if it can't be certainly cured, rather than carry stacks of items that may or may not help me against it. Makes me think of monsters who resist most, if not all enfeebling; why give us them at all if you don't wan us to use them? ^^;

Of course instead, we get more spells that "may or may not help you" which is enough said.


Random/Luck based things != Fun evaluates to be true.
Just my thoughts, of course!

[Camate]

Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

[Rakshaka]

Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

Is the development team unaware that light spirit can cast Banish IV in the current non-test version of the game? I've got a whole slew of other smn related stuff on the smn forum if you wanna take a crack at those too.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12700-Compendium-of-Summoner-Job-Issues

[Ashay]

Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

That is a disappointment. As Banish III is from Lv.65 and Banishga II is from Lv.40, I really hope that WHM gets Banish IV and Banishga III by Lv.100, at least.

[Dragoy]

I really hope that WHM gets Banish IV and Banishga III by Lv.100, at least.
Well now wouldn't that be quite the tease. ^^;

[Vortex]

Well i'm sure you meant level 99..as we are not getting level 100, (remember every other Final fantasy game?)

[Ashay]

Well i'm sure you meant level 99..as we are not getting level 100, (remember every other Final fantasy game?)

Actually, Final Fantasy VIII did allow players to level to 100. I specifically mentioned Lv.100 because it'd be really silly for them to increase the maximum level to 99 instead of 100. It just doesn't make sense to add a four level increase after they've been adding them as five level increases.

[Bubeeky]

Actually, it makes perfect sense....first off, they said the new max level was going to be 99...second, don't you want us to be immune to those retarded attacks that petrify us or w/e just because we're a multiple of level 5? Especially when the creature in question is like lvl 30 where we're level 90...basically punishing us for being the wrong level. Not that it makes the mobs in question any serious threat mind you, it's just really irritating to me.

[Ashay]

Actually, it makes perfect sense....first off, they said the new max level was going to be 99...second, don't you want us to be immune to those retarded attacks that petrify us or w/e just because we're a multiple of level 5? Especially when the creature in question is like lvl 30 where we're level 90...basically punishing us for being the wrong level. Not that it makes the mobs in question any serious threat mind you, it's just really irritating to me.

My only point is that it's inconsistent to the previous level cap increases over the course of the last year. Yes, it would prevent Lv.5 Petrify from ever being a problem again, but that's only one example of how Lv.100 could be bad. Lv.50 sub jobs would be more beneficial than Lv.49, obviously. For example, Resist Petrify III is RDM's Lv.50 job trait. I'd of course prefer it if WHM got Banish IV and Banishga III now, rather than by Lv.99.

[Bubeeky]

meh...99 feels more final to me.

[Dragoy]

Yeah, the maximum will be 99, and it is more about technical limitations actually than anything else (if I remember right, could easily be wrong though). Maybe in some Distant Worlds, we could be 100 one day.

Probably not... but that's just my guess. ^^

[SpankWustler]

Maybe I'll get a spell that I'll want to cast exactly twice before this month is done. Maybe I'll get a spell that I'll want to cast exactly twice in six months from now.

Somehow, I can't bring myself to care which way it goes. I've never felt the burning need for a less MP efficient version of Stone I/II/III/IV as a White Mage.

[Bayohne]

Banish IV and Banishga III, for which an implementation timetable has yet to be determined, have received a lot of attention. But Curaga V, which has been a bit lacking, has been adjusted and the enmity gained has been lowered.

The updated data is now reflected on the Test Server, so please check out Curaga V's latest effects.

[Cdryik]

Any plan on adjusting Sacrosanctity (Lv. 95)? it's disapointing how it works, and I can't really find it usefull at all. You use it, and the next magic damage you take it'll wear off, with a recast of 10min... On mobs who spam spell/tp move who did a lot of damage it won't help a lot :s
I was hoping for a ja who will works with bar spell, something like increase the magic defense for a set amount of time (5min for 10min recast?), you can lower the effect, who seems powerfull (at least on the mob I test it, I take only 1/4 of the damage (109 dmg in place of 438, same number for the 3 test I did).

And or change the help message, because " Enhances magic defense for party members within area of effect." don't really reflect what it did.

[Zannon]

Banish IV and Banishga III, for which an implementation timetable has yet to be determined, have received a lot of attention. But Curaga V, which has been a bit lacking, has been adjusted and the enmity gained has been lowered.

The updated data is now reflected on the Test Server, so please check out Curaga V's latest effects.

Can i trade Curaga V & Sacrosanctity for Banish IV for this upcoming update please? >_< a bored whm can wish i quess...lol

[Economizer]

The upgrade from the 22% cure potency staff is currently 40 light geodes for 1% more cure potency on the test server. While other staffs might be priced right at 40 geodes for +1 magic affinity, a 1% boost to cure potency for 40 geodes is too much.

Either the cure potency staff should have a lower cost, an alternate trial (like turn in more pixies), or a bigger boost to cure potency (or other stats). I understand that the cure potency on it is fairly high, so perhaps the best solution is to cure the geode cost to a more reasonable level for this staff.

[SpankWustler]

The upgrade from the 22% cure potency staff is currently 40 light geodes for 1% more cure potency on the test server. While other staffs might be priced right at 40 geodes for +1 magic affinity, a 1% boost to cure potency for 40 geodes is too much.

Either the cure potency staff should have a lower cost, an alternate trial (like turn in more pixies), or a bigger boost to cure potency (or other stats). I understand that the cure potency on it is fairly high, so perhaps the best solution is to cure the geode cost to a more reasonable level for this staff.

I share your disappointment at 40 geodes for 1% cure potency. I was really hoping that it would gain casting time reduction similar to the elemental affinity staffs, personally.

[Economizer]

I was really hoping that it would gain casting time reduction similar to the elemental affinity staffs, personally.

As a White Mage, it isn't hard to cap casting time. To be honest, I'd prefer recast reduction, especially with all the haste gear you generally have to drop when gearing for potency.

[SpankWustler]

As a White Mage, it isn't hard to cap casting time. To be honest, I'd prefer recast reduction, especially with all the haste gear you generally have to drop when gearing for potency.

I've always been paranoid that things like Light Arts stack with Cure Cast Time in a multiplicative manner rather than an additive manner, so I just assume I'm never hitting the new reduction cap of 80% no matter what I slap on. It would be awesome to find out that I'm wrong in thinking this, though.

[SpankWustler]

I love the idea of Sacrosanctity: it's a very strong defensive ability meant to be used at a key moment. This is exactly the kind of thing that White Mage benefits from having, and I'd love to see an equivalent for physical damage later on.

However, ten minutes is a huge recast for a one-shot ability at this point in the game. Most Notorious Monsters don't even live ten minutes. Five minutes would be a much, much more reasonable recast for such an ability.

[Economizer]

The issue where the weapon skill Myrkr would not remove the status ailments Elegy and Requiem.

Okay, so why does this weapon get to cure these things and not Esuna or Benediction?

[Sasaraixx]

Okay, so why does this weapon get to cure these things and not Esuna or Benediction?

Because they can be removed by Erase?

[Kasandaro]

Because they can be removed by Erase?

Huh? Think what Economizer's asking is, why can Myrkr remove Elegy/Requiem when Esuna won't. (etc) In theory, Esuna should remove everything Erase does.

[SpankWustler]

I think the development team's logic is that Elegy and Requiem are single target, so there's no need for an Area of Effect spell or ability to remove them.

I also think that logic is suspect. Esuna, Sacrifice, and most of all Benediction should excel in "quality" of status effects removed as well as quantity. The first two have steep draw-backs, and the third can only be used every two-hours.