[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] MNK

[Inafking]

I like what it had to say about increasing defensive abilities and Chakra. But augmenting Chi Blast is not going to be effective unless you do something about the recast timer. Maybee it should cost MP or TP if they don't think a shortened recast would be balanced.

[Greatguardian]

Eh? What's wrong with Chi Blast's timer? 2 Mnks can already keep Penance on any one monster permenantly.

[Inafking]

It's not about pennance, it's about the ajustments in the dev post. Please read before posting.

[Greatguardian]

It's not about pennance, it's about the ajustments in the dev post. Please read before posting.

I know what's in the Dev post. It's basically an augment to the concept of Penance. Reduced TP gain and reduced TP. So what is wrong with the recast timer again?

[Inafking]

If you don't know, I'm not sure you have the capacity to understand. Either way I'm done responding to this troll.

[Greatguardian]

o ok. I'm a troll now. Because I don't see an issue with a 3 minute timer on TP Reduction and Inhibition? I highly doubt the idea is to be able to BLU-style Reaving Wind things constantly. Chi Blast has already been appropriated as a TP-inhibiting maneuver. All I see from this update is an enhancement to that concept, allowing Chi Blast to reduce TP as well.

How this becomes an issue of timers, I'd really like to know.

[Swords]

I agree there really isn't anything wrong with the current Chi Blast timer. Even if your argument is to enhance Chi Blasts TP reduction capabilities by spamming it there is no guarantee it will be by a set amount, percentage, or hell they may make it relevant to damage done like 1TP for every 10 Chi Blast damage. Besides those were just proposed ideas, what they wrote today might be the exact opposite of what they do tomarrow.

[Covenant]

As with almost all the new "Maniestos" rather than give player acces to both 2 hr ability of job and sub job, SE seems to be going in the direction of "mini 2hrs".

Not being a high lvl monk(lvl37), I don't know what's going on with this job but here's my 2cents...
...chakra already had a regen effect? I think this would have been a perfect spot to create a regain effect for monks.
...out if all the jobs I think Monk should have gotten a native "Stun chance%". Maybe tied to kicks?
....I've suggested before a NON-decaying(set duration), random STAT down effect /JA called "Crippling Blow".

[Swords]

As with almost all the new "Maniestos" rather than give player acces to both 2 hr ability of job and sub job, SE seems to be going in the direction of "mini 2hrs".


Not to sound crass but that would break game mechanics in abyssea more than it already is, even then the concept is pretty broken for some jobs like a MNK/WAR or WAR/MNK or THF/MNK outside of abyssea. But in either case, they have limited utility due to all 2hr's sharing the same timer. It could potentially help jobs with lackluster 2hrs, but you don't really help those jobs when the guys who don't need help get a bigger boost.

[Cream_Soda]

Hey guys, mnk has no native mp but we should natively give them something that costs mp!

[Paksenarrion]

I have to agree that I don't see the issue with the timer on Chi Blast. Granted, I think I've demonstrated well enough that I don't understand the basics of MNK to the extent that people like Cream_Soda has, let alone the advanced work.

Chakra is something I'd be happy to see improved, entirely because getting as little HP as it gives was kinda lol at 75, let alone 90.

[Gokku]

little hp? i chakra for a total of 983 atm OUTSIDE of abyssea if you've got the gear for it chakra has always been a very decent heal with a potent regen effect.

[Jackastheripper]

Gotta agree with most of the responders on here, I don't see an issue with the recast timer at all.

[Cream_Soda]

little hp? i chakra for a total of 983 atm OUTSIDE of abyssea if you've got the gear for it chakra has always been a very decent heal with a potent regen effect.
So, where are you getting 273 vit from?

Galka mnk/war w/ 8 vit merits @ 90 has 100 vit

Being nice, I'm going to let you use a vit staff and grip

Af+1 body and af2 hands

I'm counting +85 vit, that's WITH a staff that gives vit+15 and a grip that gives vit+2


100+85 = 185

185 x 3.6 = 666

Take away staff/grip and put in a real weapon
168 VIT
168 x 3.6 = 604.8~604 HP return.

If you're including the regen, that's very very misleading, as the way I read that, the Chakra itself gave you 983, lol. Invig should only be counted if you're soloing (at best). Otherwise, you'll already have a stronger regen on you and the one from chakra contributes nothing.

[Gokku]

i solo alot so i count the invig effect. im at 92+70 atm for vit. with staff grip and feet i could hit +21 more vit *but as mentioned thats impractical same way i dont count shadow mantle.
chakra set : rings are terrasoulx2
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/e09512bf60f093f43cdb2fd9b5b990a1.jpg

[Cream_Soda]

That's fine but the way you said it came off giving it much more credit than it actually deserves, lol

[Gokku]

even with out the invig effect the 583 is a solid cure 4/ shitty cure 5 nothing ground breaking but its been the deciding factor for me killing something or being killed while solo alot of times. i was just trying to point out to the other monk that chakra is a good ja if you put the work into it.

[Cream_Soda]

I never said it wasn't good. I just said you were overstating what it is.

If I say I do a 15k victory smite and I only do a 5k victory smite. 5k is a damn awesome victory smite, but it doesn't mean I wasn't giving it more than its deserved credit, no matter how awesome it actually was.

[Gokku]

but everyone knows brew dmg is the only dmg!

[Paksenarrion]

Glad it was clarified that it did include Invigorate or I was going to be like "Wha? HOW!?" How many merits do you have in Invigorate if I may ask?

I really need to retrain myself on playing this game. I would probably be so much better at the minor things if I used more stuff available to me. Also question why I put my temple cyclas +1 and melee gloves +1 on the porter moogle while I kept my relic body out.

Maybe tomorrow I'll do an assessment and see what I need to do to make myself be better. Write some new macros and stuff.

Sorry, I love my MNK, but I'm a terrible one. =(

[Gokku]

im 5/5 invig * 400 hp regen effect* 4/5 penance just because i solo alot . and used to do most "monk tank" events with another monk who was 5/5 pen 4/5 invig so it was balanced fine.

[Covenant]

@ cream_soda (aka troll). Why exactly is stun a "magic" move requiring mp? From as far back as D&D, even further if you count actual martial arts, a monk always had the ability to strike "pressure ppoints" to cause all sorts of painful, debilitating effects. Armor has little chinks that a master martial artist could take advantage of. There's two type(probably more) types of physical stunning.
First, strike the head in such a way can cause serious stunning. Second, striking a person's solarplex(stomach area) as they are exhaling...collapses the diaphragm and cause serious gasping, if not vomiting and most people if hit just "right" will collapse for more than 10secs.
These two forms of stun, ignores any affects adrenaline has on a body. A besrker hyped in adreline could have an arm chopped off and continue fight, but if you strike just right all air is knocked out, completely disrupting functioning.

[Cream_Soda]

Why exactly is stun a "magic" move requiring mp?
I'm going to stop here and not read the rest.

Why? Because I never said anything to or about your post.


Look at the original post

Maybee it should cost MP or TP
Which is why I said why should they give mnk something that costs mp when mnk has no native MP and cannot get without influence from subjob, merits, or gear.

"Oh hey, we're gonna give you something you can only use on specific subs or with certain gear equipped"

[Babekeke]

A quote in your first post might have cleared up the issue, Creamsoda. I got it because I read all posts together, but anyone reading them on separate days could have been confused.
Especially Covenant, judging by his English.

[Cream_Soda]

Lol, I suppose, but the only person who said MP at all aside from me was the OP

[Alderin]

Hey guys, mnk has no native mp but we should natively give them something that costs mp!

I lol'd.

Chi timers are fine. As mentioned above, it's not like MNK is trying to be like BLU and spam TP drain spells or anything.

[Cursed]

Before they go adding new stuff to MNK, I'd like to see them make Guard as effective as other defensive traits.
just a higher proc rate would be great.
In Martial arts, guarding is a lot easier than countering and evading. This shit should proc a lot more often.
The most basic form of defense that even non martial artists posses is a guard.

[Covenant]

Guard is a little weird. It's a straight damage negation as evasion. When a shield proc, I understand that if only lowers damage not completely null it. Something that completely mulls damage should then NOT proc as much as shield despite having high skill.

Or I think...I don't have a monk leveled.

[Gokku]

then dont post misinformation please you have no clue how guard works.

[Covenant]

@gokku. What a waste of energy you are? You could have simply corrected me and informed peole how it works. But you chose the troll option. Good job.

[Gokku]

how did i "troll you" i asked you nicely to not post false info and stated a fact you have no idea what your talking about. a fact you've just reinforced. if you want to learn how guard works 30 secs on wiki and a few other boards turns of plenty of good info im not your babysitter this isnt 3rd grade with me as your teacher use your brain.

and now to "troll" you
LOOK GUZ I HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THIS JOB AND IM YAPPING OUT MY CUMMERBUND AND SO MAD YOU CALLED ME OUT FOR BEING A TARD!!!111!!1

[Greatguardian]

It's not very easy to be sympathetic to someone when they walk into a conversation about guard without spending 30 seconds learning how it works first.

On topic, realism isn't really the best reasoning behind changes in video game mechanics. It's already a fantasy game, realism was thrown out the window a long time ago (hi Guns not just one-shotting mobs). I'm pretty content just not bothering with Guard, personally.

[Lynchilles]

@gokku. What a waste of energy you are? You could have simply corrected me and informed peole how it works. But you chose the troll option. Good job.

Or you could try reading the many threads all over this forum (and other forums) about guard and why it sucks before you post something about guard.

You weren't being trolled. You were simply told it is better to stay quiet and be assumed the fool instead of opening your mouth and confirming it.

[Laausuu]

I would also like to see some change(s) made to Guard in general. With the rate that guard occurs it is somewhat frustrating to attempt to skill up. I would like to see some sort of JA like Counterstance or Perfect Counter that would make Guard more likely to occur.

[Qkan]

While it would be nice, I think the problem with that is in combination with a decent evasion skill and countering, a higher rate of guarding would make Monk near impossible to hit. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for that to happen, but that's not really balanced. And in exchange, I really don't want my counter rate lowered since that is a good part of our damage and even threat management on things we are tanking.

If anything, I'd like the job to get a higher limit on Subtle Blow. Personally, I believe the TP feed is probably the worst thing about this game. Until recently, we typically bring 4-5 people and only 2 of us are melee (WHM, BRD, and BLM are the others). With just us two it's manageable as the THF has decent SB gear and our combined evasion/counter tanking really limits the TP gained from being hit. We added one more person who comes on occasion and his TP feed (as either DRK or NIN (He's not near our gear level and he's missing some important DPS atmas too so his low damage is more just a TP feed.)) has made some mobs spam TP so much that it's made them way more difficult then they usually are in our 5 man group. And on things that have traits that allow them to be healed while casting or TPing (Shinryu, Ulhuadshi to name a few) it just makes it that much harder or longer a fight. Er, so before I begin to wander too far off topic: I'd like to see additional changes to Subtle Blow and TP feed for enemies. I can definitely see why people prefer multi-boxing or low manning events. And as a melee job, it's not a whole lot of fun to stand around because of TP gain.

[Anza]

im 5/5 invig * 400 hp regen effect* 4/5 penance just because i solo alot . and used to do most "monk tank" events with another monk who was 5/5 pen 4/5 invig so it was balanced fine.

Or you could always do 5/5 Penance 5/5 Invigorate. I recently dropped Formless Strikes altogether because it has been useless to me for a long time. Any rare time you do use it, your damage is bad and it's very likely than in any decent setup other jobs can easily take care of whatever mob you're fighting anyway. On the other hand, Penance and Invigorate are both frequently useful to me. So why was I holding onto that 1 Formless merit?

If Formless ever becomes important in future content I'll just get it again. I'm kinda suspecting that won't be the case though. It had literally helped me zero times in the previous year when I dumped it a couple months back, and I have not missed it since.

[Vortex]

Or you could always do 5/5 Penance 5/5 Invigorate. I recently dropped Formless Strikes altogether because it has been useless to me for a long time. Any rare time you do use it, your damage is bad and it's very likely than in any decent setup other jobs can easily take care of whatever mob you're fighting anyway. On the other hand, Penance and Invigorate are both frequently useful to me. So why was I holding onto that 1 Formless merit?

If Formless ever becomes important in future content I'll just get it again. I'm kinda suspecting that won't be the case though. It had literally helped me zero times in the previous year when I dumped it a couple months back, and I have not missed it since.

Agree here, i may even just drop mine, because the few times i do use it doing 30-60 damage a hit i think why the hell do did i even bother? only to have the mob do something else that makes it invunurable later on when it wears off and be like "oh it's on it's long, 10 minute recast timer" it seems only worth it if you 5/5 formless but who in the hell would full merit formless? as if mantra wasn't useless enough.

[Qkan]

Actually, thinking more about Guarding, a "Guardstance" might not be so bad if it were to give 60% guard (leaving base Counter alone) and maybe either doesn't take away your defense or provides a minor defense bonus. In combination with Tactical Guard, you may be able to get a decent TP feed that would allow for fast WS. Guardstance would not stack with Counterstance and would overwrite each other like Blood Rage and Warcry.

Just idle musings from a 3rd shift worker wasting time waiting on Keeper.

Edit: This would be more for things that you cannot counter a whole lot. I know you can Guard TP moves so maybe this would be better on something like Shinryu or where having virtually zero DEF is bad. Again, just wasting time.

[Camate]

Hi-ya monks! (get it? It's a pun.) Can I get a yeah buddy? Because I have a bunch of responses from the development team as follow-ups to all the feedback we have received about monk job adjustments :)


Make it so you generate TP upon a successful counterattack.

Since Counter offers the monk a defensive edge by negating damage from an attack, we decided against it also generating TP.


Abolish the TP that is given to enemies upon a monk’s successful counter.

Since the benefit of Counter itself is already very potent, it will be difficult to justify cutting the TP given to the enemy as well.


Make it so the rate of guard activation and the amount of damage that is reduced increases the higher the monk’s guard skill is.


First we will be making adjustments to make it easier to increase guard and parry skills. We plan on looking into guard balance adjustments as the next step we take.


Add an ability that increases the guard rate and damage reduction.

Since we already have Perfect Counter, we have no plans to add this type of ability.


Make it so magic casting cannot be interrupted when you guard.

Since monk has no native magic skill, a different type of effect such as a reduction in enemy’s generated TP would fit better than simply magic interruption.


Adjust Boost so the attack power is stronger.

We will look into it. We agree it would be nice to feel a potent effect even if the enemies get stronger with the level cap increase.


Add Regen, Stoneskin, or some other type of support-related effect to Chakra.

We are thinking about adding something along the lines of increasing the effect of Chakra through Boost. It might be good if we added a Regen effect when using Boost in conjunction with Chakra which would get more powerful the more times you Boost.


Add a stun ability.

We are not thinking about adding an ability for this. We would like to have monks use the weapon skill “Shoulder Tackle” in instances that they need to stun something. We are currently looking into an effect that will reduce an enemy’s TP as an adjustment to Chi Blast.


Will there be any new stance abilities like Footwork?

First we would like to make adjustments so that Footwork can be used in more efficient ways, so we are not currently preparing any additional new stances.


We would like special abilities that can only be used while Footwork is active.

We’ll keep it in consideration as a part of the Footwork adjustments.


Add items that can be equipped in the sub equipment slot while using hand-to-hand weapons.

We are currently looking into methods of utilizing the sub slot for hand-to-hand. We’ll take into consideration the balance of other weapons and will look to implement it at the right time.

[Vagrua]

We are thinking about adding something along the lines of increasing the effect of Chakra through Boost. It might be good if we added a Regen effect when using Boost in conjunction with Chakra which would get more powerful the more times you Boost.

Perhaps adjustments could be made to where boost would only go off during Chakra, Chi Blast, or Weapon skills over the next attack round? This way you could stack boosts more efficiently to bring out the most in them.


We are currently looking into methods of utilizing the sub slot for hand-to-hand. We’ll take into consideration the balance of other weapons and will look to implement it at the right time.

Hand-to-hand straps have been wanted for a long time and will be much appreciated when implemented. :)

[Karbuncle]

Not to nitpick but the WS is called "Shoulder Tackle", i think "Tackle" is something Campaign Maat uses o.o?

I like the idea of some type of sub-weapon for h2h, it would be rather interesting, also liking the Chakra abilities, but doesn't chakra already give Regen through Merits...? a Stoneskin effect would be nice though i think?

Looking forward to adjustments to footwork, I think the problem is Footwork erases our Martial Arts effects right? Would have to be some major boosts to keep up with those loses... Maybe make it possible to triple/quad attack on Footwork? as of right now i think you can only double attack... that hinders the ability very heavily as well.

I mention Quad cause of the Oa2-4x H2H Weapon used to be pretty spot on for Footwork back at 80, but with all the martial arts its hard to have footwork keep up. then again i think Footwork was intended to be the "less TP feed" Stance, sacrifice Damage for Less TP fed? I think thats why it was originally added...? its been too long

[Camate]

Not to nitpick but the WS is called "Shoulder Tackle", i think "Tackle" is something Campaign Maat uses o.o?

Yeah, sorry it's Shoulder Tackle. Tackle is what is used for the Japanese version. Fixed. orz

[Karbuncle]

Yeah, sorry it's Shoulder Tackle. Tackle is what is used for the Japanese version. Fixed. orz

Its okay :X, Its really Tackle in JP? Explains why Maat uses it o.o!

[Francisco]

Some feedback from a career MNK:


Hi-ya monks! (get it? It's a pun.) Can I get a yeah buddy? Because I have a bunch of responses from the development team as follow-ups to all the feedback we have received about monk job adjustments :)

First off, thanks for the answers. Kinda expected we'd be one of the last jobs to get a manifesto, if we got one at all.


Q: Make it so you generate TP upon a successful counterattack.



A: Since Counter offers the monk a defensive edge by negating damage from an attack, we decided against it also generating TP.

Basically agreed. It'd be pretty broken gaining TP on every counter. Perhaps some small benefit - like occasionally gaining 1 or 2 TP, but not every time?


Q: Abolish the TP that is given to enemies upon a monk’s successful counter.



A: Since the benefit of Counter itself is already very potent, it will be difficult to justify cutting the TP given to the enemy as well.

How much TP does a mob gain from being countered? Perhaps we can lower the number? I think it is much easier to justify this than having us gain TP from counters.


Q: Make it so the rate of guard activation and the amount of damage that is reduced increases the higher the monk’s guard skill is.




A: First we will be making adjustments to make it easier to increase guard and parry skills. We plan on looking into guard balance adjustments as the next step we take.

Glad to hear this. My personal suggestion for guard is to allow it to skill up on counter attacks.


Q: Add an ability that increases the guard rate and damage reduction.



A: Since we already have Perfect Counter, we have no plans to add this type of ability.

This idea is pretty useless, unless trying to skill up guard.


Q: Make it so magic casting cannot be interrupted when you guard.



A: Since monk has no native magic skill, a different type of effect such as a reduction in enemy’s generated TP would fit better than simply magic interruption.

This wouldn't help MNK much anyway, even if we were MNK/NIN.


Q: Adjust Boost so the attack power is stronger.



A: We will look into it. We agree it would be nice to feel a potent effect even if the enemies get stronger with the level cap increase.

Boost is pretty much only used for weaponskills - so perhaps something tailored specifically for weaponskills would be nice. Weaponskill Accuracy might be nice going forward if the enemies are going to be evasive...


Q: Add Regen, Stoneskin, or some other type of support-related effect to Chakra




A: We are thinking about adding something along the lines of increasing the effect of Chakra through Boost. It might be good if we added a Regen effect when using Boost in conjunction with Chakra which would get more powerful the more times you Boost.

Well, we already have Invigorate through merits - but I rather like the Stoneskin idea, similar to the effect WHM gets with cures. Can't say there's much use for Boosting Chakra - except maybe after recovering from weakness or something. I'd like to see Chakra remove Slow and Bio - and the recast timer not being eaten by Paralyze (this goes for all abilities though).


Q: Add a stun ability.



A: We are not thinking about adding an ability for this. We would like to have monks use the weapon skill “Shoulder Tackle” in instances that they need to stun something. We are currently looking into an effect that will reduce an enemy’s TP as an adjustment to Chi Blast.

Not really a huge need for a stun ability - but we're not going to use Shoulder Tackle either. I think the only time I ever relied on Shoulder Tackle is for the Poroggo Madame NMs in Salvage.


Q: Will there be any new stance abilities like Footwork?



A: First we would like to make adjustments so that Footwork can be used in more efficient ways, so we are not currently preparing any additional new stances.

I think people mostly want a stance where they just guard endlessly... lol


Q: We would like special abilities that can only be used while Footwork is active.



A: We’ll keep it in consideration as a part of the Footwork adjustments.

99% of MNKs honestly don't care about Footwork... It makes us feel like gimp SAMs with foot fetishes.


Q: Add items that can be equipped in the sub equipment slot while using hand-to-hand weapons.



A: We are currently looking into methods of utilizing the sub slot for hand-to-hand. We’ll take into consideration the balance of other weapons and will look to implement it at the right time.

This would be pretty neat!

[Coldbrand]

I think bandages be appropriate for the sub equip slot.

[Panthera]

This wouldn't fix any problems, but...

It would be cool if Monk could have some kind of ability or trait when using a Staff.

[Greatguardian]

There are problems with Monk to fix?

[Raksha]

There are problems with Monk to fix?

Yeah, they don't have a move to auto-stun enemies TP moves.

[Qkan]

I think Francisco did a great job of summing up the thoughts of the majority of MNK players.

[Serj]

Yeah, they don't have a move to auto-stun enemies TP moves.

Mnks need tp moves to be stunned? News to me.

[Motenten]

Add Regen, Stoneskin, or some other type of support-related effect to Chakra.
We are thinking about adding something along the lines of increasing the effect of Chakra through Boost. It might be good if we added a Regen effect when using Boost in conjunction with Chakra which would get more powerful the more times you Boost.

That's called "Invigorate". Tier 2 merit.

Stoneskin might be nice, but (agreeing with Francisco) I'd prefer being able to remove additional status effects (certainly slow, maybe plague (since we can already cure disease), possibly bio).

If you want to add Boost as a prereq for removing additional status, well.. guess it's not too bad. But "more boosts = more healing" just seems silly. Chakra is a JA, for instant use in battle, primarily; picturing trying to sit around for 3 minutes Boosting to get its full effect just seems ludicrous.


We are currently looking into an effect that will reduce an enemy’s TP as an adjustment to Chi Blast.

That's called "Penance". Tier 2 merit.



Make it so magic casting cannot be interrupted when you guard.
Since monk has no native magic skill, a different type of effect such as a reduction in enemy’s generated TP would fit better than simply magic interruption.

I'm actually not sure if Subtle Blow affects the TP gained by mobs hitting players, though I would assume it does since Store TP affects the amount of TP the player gets. If so, then the amount of TP the mob gets from hitting you is already fairly low, and further reducing it would be a fairly minor effect. Just add it in as part of the Tactical Guard trait (say, -3 TP to the mob to correspond with the +3 TP for the player) and call it a day.


We’ll keep it in consideration as a part of the Footwork adjustments.

Actually, this is probably the info that I'd be most interested in hearing. Footwork is fairly unique as a combat style within the game, but mechanically just can't keep up with standard H2H under pretty much any circumstances or intended usages.

Its greatest advantage, reduced TP given to the mob, is overshadowed by taking twice as long to kill the mob while giving half as much TP per unit time (so in the end you gain nothing but wasted time). The other problem is that it's only remotely useful with the OA2-3/4 weapons to boost the double-kick proc rate, and can't take advantage of other specific weapon traits/stats (eg: Empyreans or Relics, obviously, but also other weapons that seem like they were more intended for Footwork use).

Damage wise, because of how its damage scales, even if you got it perfectly balanced compared to standard H2H at level 90 (for example), it will inevitably fall behind as soon as the level cap goes up. So whatever gain it gets, it has to scale well with level.

Sam has Hasso and Seigan for offensive and defensive stances, and likewise nin has Innin and Yonin. Each serves a useful purpose for a specific task. Mnk's secondary stance is Footwork, but it seems the developers had only the vaguest of ideas in mind when creating it. Mnks can kick, right? Let's let them kick a whole bunch... It has no real raison d'etre, a purpose for existing.

Serious thought needs to be given to that before some half-assed revamp is done.



How much TP does a mob gain from being countered? Perhaps we can lower the number? I think it is much easier to justify this than having us gain TP from counters.

When you counter a mob, the mob gets as much TP as if you'd hit it normally.



Overall summary for mnk needs: Fix guard proc rate. Fix Footwork in general. Maybe add bonuses to Chakra for a Christmas present. Anything else is just busywork that, honestly, could be better used on any number of other jobs.

[Zhronne]

First of all thanks Camate for the info on the upcoming adjustments.
My two cents now:

Chakra
The idea of having Chakra powered up by Boost is nice, but it might not work out quite well and could be a bit frustrating, especially when you talk about the effect scaling up with the amount of times you use Boost.
Boost wears off with the next attack you perform, and has a 15 seconds delay between each use. Which means to power up Chakra you'd have to disengage or turn around and use boost a few times before using Chakra. But that's a bit unpractical to use, because Chakra is normally used in situations of danger, when you want a fast recover of your HP to avoid a possible death. There are many uses I guess, but this probably is the most used/effective.
So, from this perspective, the stacking boost thing doesn't seem very efficient.
Could make Boost receive a small bonus according to your Max HP, currently it scales exclusively with your VIT. HP recovered with Chakra is VITx2, Temple's Cyclas add a 1 to the multiplier, Melee Gloves add a 0.66. Maybe creating a new item for a slot that isn't hands or body and that adds a 0.44 multiplier (for a total of VITx4) might be an interesting choice?
Also, there's a small problem with Invigorate, the group#2 Merit that adds Regen to Chakra. This effect at the moment doesn't stack with the spell "regen" and that's not the only problem, it *overwrites* other regen spell effects, even if they are more powerful. That's really a shame if you ask me. It should either be allowed to stack with the spell, or avoid to overwrite the stronger effects.


Boost
I don't completely understand the request to make boost "stronger". I mean, if we're talking about the added Attack bonus, it's not a fixed one, it's a % so it scales with your basic attack, which means the higher your basic attack the higher bonus you receive from Boost.
While more/better gear to enhance this bonus could be interesting (currently we only have Temple Gloves) I don't think it's really necessary to increase the bonus given, it already scales up.
The idea of adding an accuracy bonus is very nice, but probably would be a bit too much etc.
I have to say I REALLY like the idea of boost wearing off only with WS, Chi Blast or Chakra. This way Boost wouldn't wear off with normal attacks (not even accidentally, happened a few times to me) and it would be much easier to make use of it during fights.
Really, I'd love such a change :)


Footwork
In my opinion, the developers need to better understand what is the goal, the meaning, the role of such a stance.
At the moment it's just a way to gimp your damage while changing the aestetical way you attack your foes. Even supposing developers manage to "power it up" and make it on par, damage wise, with the normal "fists" setup, it would still be a pretty useless ability, because all it would grant is a difference in animations, right?
So instead of "boosting" footwork, they should go back to square one and think what they want footwork to be.
To me Footwork should be a situational stance to use in certain circumstances that grants some advantages at the cost of something else.
For example the original idea of having Monk swap from a normal stance (with a lots of quick punches and some occasional kicks on each attack round) to a foowtork stance where you deal only ONE kick per attack round, making so this kick is very powerful, very slow, and gets you a lot of TP.
That was the core idea of Footwork, but it slowly transformed into a series of very fast kicks on each round (thanks to the "occasionally attacks X times" weapons).
A simple change that could balance things up is changing the role of "Kick Attacks + X" bonuses on legs equipment.
Currently this bonus, in a normal stance, increase the possibility of a Kick Attack to happen at the end of the round.
During footwork it works in a similar way to "double attack", adding a second kick.
This is pretty useless. Make it so that the "Kick Attack + X" bonus has a different effect wether footwork is active or not.
If it's turned off it works the same way it does now, if Footwork is up, it just adds + X base damage to the kick, similarly to what Feet equipment do, like Dune Boots or Tantra Gaiters.

[Zhronne]

Whoa! Sad I didn't read the allmighty Motenten's post before, said more or less the same things but in a much better way.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who got the impression that Footwork currently has no purpose, that's a very important point imho.
Even if they manage to make it perfectly on par with Hand to Hand damage (which I find unlikely, but let's suppose they succeed) it still would have no purpose. Why would you swap to Footwork then? Just to see different animations? Sounds a bit silly, a waste of a JA.
They should find a "purpose" for Footwork.
Having very slow, very powerful, high return TP kicks sounds like a more interesting and situational JA that we could use at times, and closer to the original idea of Footwork.
Damage-wise it wouldn't be as good as H2H, but it would be close, and u'd generate much less TP on the mob.
Not particularly original maybe, but good enough for me.
To achieve this they would need to reduce the number of kick attacks per round (making so OAx weapons don't work, and so +kick attacks merits/gear give +damage instead of +% rate of activation) and make so the JA itself scales with level. At the moment it gives a fixed +damage bonus, make so that amount is not fixed but it scales with level. Say... +20 at level 65 when you get the JA, and +50 at level 99? (+5 damage every 5 levels, approx)
They could do the same with the attack bonus I guess, and they should also increase the base tp return, from the current 13 value to something else slightly higher.


As for your group# 2 merits comments. I get the pretty clear impression, from past Developers' comments and from recent comments on other jobs, that they are up for a big revamp on group 2 merits.
I think a lot of those will become "normal abilities/job traits" for the majority of jobs, and they'll put something else in there.
That might just be the case with Penance and Invigorate.

[Reznov831]

We are currently looking into methods of utilizing the sub slot for hand-to-hand. We’ll take into consideration the balance of other weapons and will look to implement it at the right time.[/QUOTE]

Why not just let Mnks have variety like Nin and its ability to choose 2 different katanas? I think it'd be awesome if Mnk could use 2 different h2h weapons. I doubt I'm the first to think of this, but just thought I'd put it out there since I've never seen anyone else say anything about it, though I haven't really looked either XD.

[Lushipur]

dunno if already said, but i doubt.

please if you introduce grips for h2h, remember that pup use h2h too.

[Ladycandygem]

One option for Footwork would be for it to give you an increased rate of kick attacks (average of 1.5 per attack round?), but also let you use Hand-to-Hand attacks as usual. Obviously this would be a big boost to Monk, so the trade off would be that you couldn't use Counterstance at the same time.

So it becomes like Samurai and Ninja stances, you have to choose which is most beneficial to the situation.

As the extra kick attacks would give TP, that gives it an advantage over counters, so in situations where taking damage isn't an issue, or for some reason the monk doesn't have hate, people would likely use Footwork. But when taking damage is an issue Counterstance would be preferred.

If necessary you could add the defense down of counterstance to footwork to stop it being too overpowered.

[Lynchilles]

Originally Posted by Camate
We are currently looking into an effect that will reduce an enemy’s TP as an adjustment to Chi Blast.

That's called "Penance". Tier 2 merit.


Penance decreases the amount of TP that a mob gets as a result of hitting or being hit by 25%. It simply inhibits the mobs TP gain. It does not actually decrease the amount of TP a mob has however. I think Camate is talking about an ability that actively decreases a mob's TP.

[Zhronne]

One option for Footwork would be for it to give you an increased rate of kick attacks (average of 1.5 per attack round?), but also let you use Hand-to-Hand attacks as usual. Obviously this would be a big boost to Monk, so the trade off would be that you couldn't use Counterstance at the same time.
This would make Footwork from a "situational stance" to something you want to keep up most of the times.
I mean, I love MNK and everything (it's my main after all), but asking for additional boosts seems a bit unrealistical, and honestly unnecessary.
You can't ask for a job to get something new without at least trying to keep an overall view on the rest of the jobs, can you?
What we should ask is maybe for new tools, new situational stuff etc, not just raw power.

I mean, what you asked is not very far from asking stuff like "Hey SE make so Boost gives me +90% Weapon Skill Damage!" or "Hey SE make so Counterstance activation rate goes up to 100% and you also get a +50 accuracy bonus while it's active!" lol

[Ladycandygem]

This would make Footwork from a "situational stance" to something you want to keep up most of the times.

For Samurai, Hasso is something they want to keep up all the time, but sometimes they have to use Seigan instead. It would be the same for Monk, having to choose between a more offensive or defensive stance.


I mean, what you asked is not very far from asking stuff like "Hey SE make so Boost gives me +90% Weapon Skill Damage!" or "Hey SE make so Counterstance activation rate goes up to 100% and you also get a +50 accuracy bonus while it's active!" lol

I'm sure SE could find a way to keep it balanced, maybe with an attack penalty, or lower kick activation rate or something. But it's not like those clearly overpowered suggestions. The extra kicks would be a similar number to the attacks you lose from reduced counter rate, so effectively you are gaining extra TP at the cost of taking more damage. It's almost like going from Counterstance to Retaliation.


What we should ask is maybe for new tools, new situational stuff etc, not just raw power.

And yes, it would be nice to have some utility abilities, but I was looking at a way to make Footwork useful, since at the moment it has almost no use at all.

[Motenten]

Penance decreases the amount of TP that a mob gets as a result of hitting or being hit by 25%. It simply inhibits the mobs TP gain. It does not actually decrease the amount of TP a mob has however. I think Camate is talking about an ability that actively decreases a mob's TP.

Ah, good point. I didn't consider that. I suppose that could be useful, a sort of Absorb-TP without the absorb half. Would expect it to be more powerful than Absorb-TP then (which only absorbs about half the mob's TP) given recast limitations and no absorb benefit.

[MarkovChain]

Boost is pretty much only used for weaponskills

You shouldn't be booosting unless you don't have haste/ marches.



Its greatest advantage, reduced TP given to the mob, is overshadowed by taking twice as long to kill the mob while giving half as much TP per unit time (so in the end you gain nothing but wasted time). The other problem is that it's only remotely useful with the OA2-3/4 weapons to boost the double-kick proc rate, and can't take advantage of other specific weapon traits/stats (eg: Empyreans or Relics, obviously, but also other weapons that seem like they were more intended for Footwork use).


Ever since footwork was released I've used it for fast TP gain which is actually useful, for instance to stun lock a mob (remember porrogo madames ? Ultima etc ), and also to farm WS-proc'ed mobs in dynamis (as there are always non-magic and non-JA mobs at camps). For instance in dynamis since the goal is to spam WS on those mobs, I pop defender footwork, and I can do ~10 weak ws per mob before it's dead vs one victory smite or 3-4 normal ws (with naked H2H). I think it would be interesting to boost footwork in the optic of "faster TP gain" even if it means "lower ws damage" since you could use it to proc mobs or stun lock mobs. Also procing seems to be something they plan to introduce in every endgame, so it can only be a good thing.

[Anza]

I have to say I REALLY like the idea of boost wearing off only with WS, Chi Blast or Chakra. This way Boost wouldn't wear off with normal attacks (not even accidentally, happened a few times to me) and it would be much easier to make use of it during fights.
Really, I'd love such a change :)

This is absolutely brilliant. Especially if they change Chakra to where it is in some way affected by Boosting.

As for Footwork, I agree that it needs serve some defined purpose. Perhaps have Footwork grant a 1-2tp/tic regain effect while active as an added perk? Keeping with the idea of it being a good way to generate TP while not giving the mob TP, or even as a nice way to generate some TP between fights or before a battlefield fight.

[Zhronne]

Keeping with the idea of it being a good way to generate TP while not giving the mob TP
This was the original SE idea, but in reality Footwork was used only with OA weapons and such, making the attack rate not particularly lower to that of hand to hand.
This is the fault of several factors, among which the one I described earlier: "Kick attack +X" on legs gear procs even during footwork, working in a similar way to how Double Attack does.
Changing so that, during footwork, it adds damage (like feet gear) instead of giving a DA-like thing would already be a nice change.
If they really want to keep the purpose of "give less TP" thing, they need to make us attack slow, with powerful blows that generate a lot of TP (more than the 13, which is basic tp return for 2h 480delay weapons, that we get now).

Also another thing that I forgot and that nobody mentioned so far (I think?) is the fact that the Empyreal Armor set bonus doesn't work at all with the way the current Footwork JA works.

[Anza]

Also another thing that I forgot and that nobody mentioned so far (I think?) is the fact that the Empyreal Armor set bonus doesn't work at all with the way the current Footwork JA works.

Really? I thought the +2 set bonus worked like normal KA/DA gear (and KA merits), giving you more chance to get a double kick proc in an attack round under footwork. Difference being that the +2 set also lets you occasionally double-kick even without Footwork up. That's really a shame if that's not the case.

[matic]

I'm glad Footwork will continue to be supported. from my own eyeballing outside of abyssea, Footwork with OA2-3 is clearly faster TP (3 attack rounds to 100TP after Tornado Kick) and higher WS damage than a standard h2h weapon. Although now that i got Taurine, i'm going to have to do more testing.

Everyone says Martial Arts trait this and that, and in abyssea, normal h2h is the winner, but i dont think most of those people ever bothered to get a good Footwork build and try it out without capped crit rate.

[Greatguardian]

That depends on how you define a standard H2H weapon.

If you mean someone rocking Destroyers at 90, then yes, Footwork may pull ahead if they actually care about that build.

Using legit weapons? Taurine, +2 Fire knucks, WoE, Emp? There is absolutely no way for Footwork to come close, especially when you take Victory Smite into account for applicable weapons.

Edit: Also, inafter "Eyeballing". All things even, footwork is pretty handily destroyed by normal H2H outside of Abyssea when mathed out. The only real benefit you can get from it is H2H WS procs while limiting TP fed and damage dealt (idk, Dynamis mobs?)

[Cursed]

Plot to enhance MNK and add a little more active/engaged gameplay

1.Boost:
- Make boosts stack and make it last 4 minutes before it wears off.
- Eliminate its loss after an attack round.
- Make the + attack bonus benefit of it decay over time so that by 4 minutes all attack benefits are depleted.
- Re-boosting does not effect cool down timer. To start a new round of boosts, one must cancel the effect.

2. Chakra Tiers:
2 Boost combined with Chakra = regen (10hp/tick) + crit hit rate + 2%(Lasts 15 seconds)
4 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (15hp/tick) + crit hit rate +3%(Lasts 30 seconds)
6 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (20hp/tick) + crit hit rate +4%(lasts 45 seconds)
8 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (25hp/tick) + crit hit rate +5%(lasts 60 seconds) + Counter rate +5%


3.Chi Blast
Combined with Boost
2 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion down 5%
4 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy down 5%
6 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy, defense down 5%
8 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy, defense, Magic defense down 10%


EDIT: Chakra Tiers stack with invigorate

[Atoreis]

First we will be making adjustments to make it easier to increase guard and parry skills. We plan on looking into guard balance adjustments as the next step we take.

Do You tried to skill up guard lately?

I capped guard on mnk 75 and it was really HARD. Took week of 10h a day to go from 120 to 200+ and another week to get to 260+ and 3h for last 0.7 from 268.3 to 269. That is past tho...

Recently I did guard from 280 to cap at 90 in... 3h and that's almost AFK just gathering 20+ mandragoras in altepa and getting phalanx II from RDM. It was so easy that I felt like I was cheating compering this to past experience. Guard skill up was fixed by introducing abyssea and really doesn't need any fixes. It was that one skill after you could have recognized a player that really care about MNK and now pretty much everyone can cap it with a little effort.

There is a thing that connect guard at 75 and at 90... it's useless. It almost never proc and has no additional effects like shield (no interrupts on spells) and it's pDIF-1 is much worse then completely nullified damage with parry.
Seriously You should first adjust the effect of guard not making it easier to skill up because none will even care to try those skill up adjustments for something that have no use. Also a lot of ppl will take an effort to cap guard with present difficulty w/o single whining if the final result would be a little worth it.

Sorry for bad English, it's not my native language.

[Francisco]

Plot to enhance MNK and add a little more active/engaged gameplay

1.Boost:
- Make boosts stack and make it last 4 minutes before it wears off.
- Eliminate its loss after an attack round.
- Make the + attack bonus benefit of it decay over time so that by 4 minutes all attack benefits are depleted.
- Re-boosting does not effect cool down timer. To start a new round of boosts, one must cancel the effect.

2. Chakra Tiers:
2 Boost combined with Chakra = regen (10hp/tick) + crit hit rate + 2%(Lasts 15 seconds)
4 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (15hp/tick) + crit hit rate +3%(Lasts 30 seconds)
6 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (20hp/tick) + crit hit rate +4%(lasts 45 seconds)
8 Boosts combined with Chakra = regen (25hp/tick) + crit hit rate +5%(lasts 60 seconds) + Counter rate +5%


3.Chi Blast
Combined with Boost
2 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion down 5%
4 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy down 5%
6 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy, defense down 5%
8 Boosted Chi Blast = Enemy evasion, accuracy, defense, Magic defense down 10%


EDIT: Chakra Tiers stack with invigorate

No thanks. I don't want to go back to the days of spamming Boost.

[Ladycandygem]

No thanks. I don't want to go back to the days of spamming Boost.

SE could always automate it. I.E. You hit Boost, then every 15 seconds it gains another level, until you use a WS, Chi Blast or Chakra, and then it stops accumulating.

[Cursed]

No thanks. I don't want to go back to the days of spamming Boost.



"1.Boost:
- Make boosts stack and make it last 4 minutes before it wears off.
- Eliminate its loss after an attack round."

Maybe you should read the posts you quote.
This means you are engaged and not just standing there boosting....while accumulating boosts.

[Greatguardian]

Boosting while engaged severely decreases your overall damage. The effect only compounds when additional forms out external Haste are added. There is absolutely no reason to be spamming boost aside from when you're standing around unless you have absolutely no attack already and no Haste spell, songs, samba, or gear.

[Motenten]

Mnk spamming Boost in a fight would be the equivalent of Pups having to spam maneuvers -- it notably degrades standard melee performance, while you -hope- that it does enough good to compensate for that. Very much hoping that it doesn't get implemented that way.

[Moonbaq]

I Would Like to Contribute in Ideas ^_^

1) Instead of making boost increase the dmg done to your next attack, make it so when you use boost your next attack will be critical attack (kinda like Sneak/Trick Attack). I feel that when you use the ability Boost it looks like your about to give your foe a big punch. It also fits our DD lines imo.

2) Increase The Duration Of Focus & Dodge

3) I think it would be awesome to give an ability that allows us to hit continuously for a little time ( like a mini version of Hundred Fists) Lets Face it MNK 2hr is bad ass and its ashame that we have to wait 2hrs so give MNK an ability so they can have a little taste while waiting for their 2hr. This also is benefital making us even more Bad-Ass DD.

4) Would Be nice if MNK had something job specific to equip in the Sub Category. Perhaps making an item that increases VIT, STR, or lowers delay till next attack.

5) And Last i feel that Chi Blast should have a lower times & do damage compared to what the users Current TP is at and possibly inflicting a status on the mob, this is giving the Ability more use.

Lol Im sure asking for alot xD but hey would be nice wouldnt it?

[hiko]

a 15sec force critical ja would be a little overpowered
- footwork with forced crit DK/TK
- sam/mnk criting fudos(gekkos) with overwhelm ( work with any job that have a 1-2hit high ftp no crit ws)

some (minor) fix to footwork when used with hundred fist make it add a kick attack : 2punch,1-2kick (2nd based on kick attack rate, kicks getting footwork bonuses)+ DA/TA procs

[Cursed]

Boosting while engaged severely decreases your overall damage. The effect only compounds when additional forms out external Haste are added. There is absolutely no reason to be spamming boost aside from when you're standing around unless you have absolutely no attack already and no Haste spell, songs, samba, or gear.

Boosting while engaged severely decreases your overall damage isn't really accurate. It depends on the situation.
If boost doesn't wear off and stacks, there are probably going to be a lot of situations where a higher base attack will make the loss of dot negligible. Higher Level HNMs, Zerg situations and soloing.

MNK isn't the only melee job that suffers from animation delay. If the rewards of stacking boosts outweighs the penalty, there's no reason to think of it as detrimental. Canceling Hasso , last resort, soul eater all reduce the respective classes dps and overall dmg. However, their loss during certain situations is beneficial.

MNK as it stands vs T-VT mobs outside Abyssea is fine. Anything higher such as IT and HNM see MNK fall behind heavier hitting classes such as SAM & WAR.
Gaining 5% crit hit rate for 60 seconds and loosing about 30 seconds (8 boosts x 3 second animation delay - rounded up for the sceptics) would probably see boosting come ahead than just auto-attacking. Also, the fact that as I mentioned earlier, attacks would not cancel out boost also means you gain a considerable amount of increase to your WS's when it matters (situations which we are talking about atm-see above said situations)
Regardless of the attack benefits, there are some key defensive attributes to boosting/chakra/chi blast I added that would not just benefit the MNKs dps, but also everyone elses.

It would need to be tweeked perhaps. But the idea still stands and your response was pretty hasty imo.

[Greatguardian]

Honestly, you're just throwing out a lot of eyeballing. Boosting in Zerg situations would be absolutely horrible, as you're already receiving Attack buffs and any JA delay interrupting your attack cycles is a big deal.

Many spells/buffs are already not worth casting, even on jobs like DRK. Hasso and Last Resort are unique because they provide Haste. Endark? +50 attack boost and add effect damage? Not even worth casting, it takes away that much from total damage.

If Moten doesn't mind, it would be interesting to see how much of a boost, and of what stats, Boost would need to offer offensively in order to become worth using every 15 seconds. As is, it's not even worth using before WS if you have external Haste.

[Cursed]

Honestly, you're just throwing out a lot of eyeballing. Boosting in Zerg situations would be absolutely horrible, as you're already receiving Attack buffs and any JA delay interrupting your attack cycles is a big deal.

Many spells/buffs are already not worth casting, even on jobs like DRK. Hasso and Last Resort are unique because they provide Haste. Endark? +50 attack boost and add effect damage? Not even worth casting, it takes away that much from total damage.

If Moten doesn't mind, it would be interesting to see how much of a boost, and of what stats, Boost would need to offer offensively in order to become worth using every 15 seconds. As is, it's not even worth using before WS if you have external Haste.

which is why it needs to add some benefit. Loosing its effect after a round of attacks is part of the problem.

[Francisco]

Even if it becomes worthwhile to boost every 15 seconds, it seems like an annoyance to have to use the same JA that often.

If anything, I wouldn't mind seeing Boost adding a small aftermath effect to weapon skills... be it attack, critical hit rate, or just straight damage... (example: Boost + Weaponskill = gives +50 attack for 30 seconds)...

[Serj]

There is nothing you can do to boost to make it worth using every 15 seconds. I'm not sure what everyone is thinking...

[Gokku]

remove boost as a job ability and make it a passive trait that increases attack based on monks main level and when subbing monk its effect is halved. talking 1% @level 30 - 5% @ 99 kinda thing.

[Francisco]

There is nothing you can do to boost to make it worth using every 15 seconds. I'm not sure what everyone is thinking...

How about adding a really cool macro to Boost in /say?

[Serj]

How about adding a really cool macro to Boost in /say?

I believe that's the only way you can, actually =O

Brb, adding Domon Kasshu (sp?) quotes to my boost macro.

[Francisco]

The most rewarding experience I ever got from Boost.

Back when I used to do Limbus - with like 15 other melee - I stood back and just Chi cannoned Proto-Ultima.

There was this SAM in the group who I really disliked. After landing a Chi Blast, I Boosted again and pulled hate, moving Proto-Ultima and causing the SAM to mis-Gekko and lose her TP. She started flipping out and told me to stop using Boost.

I replied "No. :D" - then went on to blow all my MP on spamming cures on the tank.

I really disliked that SAM.

[Kendlar]

Would be nice if Monks could get a hand to hand weaponskill that gives amber.

[Greatguardian]

Monk is one of only a couple jobs that has native access to Cataclysm, which is an extremely powerful Amber tool. I'm not sure if we really need to waste a new h2h WS on it =/

[Motenten]

I have a massive amount of math worked out, but only going to post the summary here:

While standard H2H gives 65% more TP to the mob per unit time, the fact that Footwork takes 43% longer to kill largely negates that advantage, leaving standard H2H giving just 22% more TP over the course of the fight; perhaps a single extra TP move per 100k damage done (not counting TP the mob gains from regain or hitting the player). Does not appear to be a good trade-off.



Each of the four stances in the game are designed to enhance something:

Hasso - Enhance attack speed, with a slight str/acc edge
Seigan - Enhance defenses, blocking more attacks per move, and readying defense more often
Innin - Enhance attack: crits and MAB
Yonin - Enhance tanking: evasion and enmity

There are a few trade offs for each, but the important thing is what they enhance.

So what does Footwork enhance? It minimizes TP given to the mob. (While it gives a boost to Att, that's a mechanism, not a purpose. Put another way, it's a "how", not a "why".) So what do you gain from it?

Better survivability? Not really; since the fights take longer you'll end up taking more damage per fight anyway.
Better attack? No; you do significantly less damage with Footwork than standard H2H.
Better tanking? No, there is no real gain in any tanking stats (evasion, counter, guard, enmity, damage reduction, etc).
Better hate control? Maybe, kinda. You do less damage so you're less likely to take hate, but there's really no difference between that and just turning away from the mob.

The problem is that, for anything we might want, we already have JAs for it. Speed? Hundred Fists (granted, short-term). Accuracy? Focus. Evasion? Dodge. Healing? Chakra. Counter rate? Counterstance/Perfect Counter. Reduced TP? Penance. Crit rate/damage? Impetus. Enmity? Damage.

While we no longer have the crown in terms of gear haste, I don't know that I'd go with any attempt to give us 'bonus' haste like drk gets with Desperate Blows.

What else could we possibly want to do that Footwork would help us with?

Ok, I can think of one thing: enfeebling. Perhaps consider it a way of striking joints, or otherwise making it difficult for the mob to attack us. Maybe give small, short-term effects like Attack/Defense Down, Magic Att/Def Down, or similar. Don't think I could quite justify things like Paralysis or Gravity, but maybe a higher-than-average spell interruption rate.

Those three things together might be sufficient. Footwork stance opens up two JAs: one to cause Att/Def Down (Kneebreaker), the other to cause M.Att/M.Def Down (Boot to the Head). Maybe 30 second duration, 1 minute recast, shared timer. And Footwork in general has a higher chance to interrupt spells than standard melee.


Along with that, from my other calculations, I'd also suggest putting the bonus base damage that Footwork gives at something like Vit/4 instead of a flat +18. +18 is ok around when we first get Footwork, but obviously doesn't scale at all with higher levels.

[Linh]

If there will be no more powerful buffs like in Abyssea, won't Monk go back to being a sidelined job cuz their base damage is so low? 2 hits for 50 damage each from a Monk or a hit for 200 damage from a Samurai; the monster would more or less gain the same TP from either attack so it wasn't efficient to use Monks.

So how about giving Monks an ability to ignore half of a monster's Defense, but when used you cannot gain any TP through any means and any TP you have is reset to 0?

You could also buff Footwork to give higher attack at the same time too, so we're given even more options. People who like to kick will use Footwork, people who prefer to punch will use this new ability.

This would hopefully make it so they deal the same damage as the Samurai or another "heavy" Damage Dealer in the end.

[Greatguardian]

Monk has always been one of the best DDs in the game (if not the best at multiple points in the game's history).

TP feed is also a null issue when Monk can cap Subtle Blow and inflict Penance on mobs, they give significantly less TP than Wars, Sams, and Drks.

[Linh]

Monk has always been one of the best DDs in the game (if not the best at multiple points in the game's history).

TP feed is also a null issue when Monk can cap Subtle Blow and inflict Penance on mobs, they give significantly less TP than Wars, Sams, and Drks.

Doh, I forgot about Subtle Blow.

[Kendlar]

Monk is one of only a couple jobs that has native access to Cataclysm, which is an extremely powerful Amber tool. I'm not sure if we really need to waste a new h2h WS on it =/
Monks still dont have access to a main amber, and could just add amber to a weaponskill thats allready in the game.

[Cursed]

i'd settle for them removing the h2h nerf they implemented in 2007. back to 1.7k asuran fists and 7 hit builds.

[MarkovChain]

Footwork is not a DD ability and it's a good thing otherwise it means the best weapons in the game will suck with it. I'm using it for fast TP gain and I like it wether it's to get TP before the mob's next TP move or for farming relics in dumbamis.

Motenten comparison for footwork damage/tp give ratio is not really interesting. If a mob has a TP move that you care about it probably is deadly (other wise autoattack and cure VI, what else ?) which means cure VI can't save you so it's better to avoid it 100%. In this case optimizing the ratio TP given/damage doesn't make sense. The only thing that matters in this case is the mob's TP gain over time and that' where footwork is useful. Oh but I disgress because no such thing exists anymore (Ultima worked great like this I heard), ez mode etc but at least it's semi useful for procing the odd WS-proced-mob in your favourite dynamis camp (the only other possiblity is a low damage club or staff for crap TP gain)

[Greatguardian]

Monks still dont have access to a main amber, and could just add amber to a weaponskill thats allready in the game.

Monks have access to "Main" Amber. As a main job, they have many Amber WS. It's Hand to Hand that does not have access to Amber WS, or Elemental WS. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. Elemental WS suck.

Monks have Main job skill in Hand to Hand, Staff, and Club. It wouldn't really make sense to add Amber to any existing h2h WS because none of them have remotely elemental properties, and personally I'd like to keep it that way.

[Motenten]

Footwork is not a DD ability and it's a good thing otherwise it means the best weapons in the game will suck with it.

I'm not trying to make it a full DD ability; rather, just trying to suggest some sort of identity for it. For the in-Abyssea comparison, you'd need to increase Footwork's base damage by *70* to put it on par with Fire Taipan +2s, both using Ascetic's Fury (and FW using Ursines); never mind comparing to anything using Victory Smite. Trying to make it into an offensive JA like Hasso would be impractical in the extreme.

Yes, you can get slightly faster TP gain using Footwork (maybe 20% when using Ursine Claws; without Ursines, time to weaponskill is basically identical to standard H2H), but that seems to be a pretty pitiful role to fill for the use of an entire ability/stance.


Motenten comparison for footwork damage/tp give ratio is not really interesting.

Interesting or not, it does give an idea of the actual TP feed effect that is its only real selling point at the moment (the edge in TP gain is mainly due to the weapons; with ordinary weapons, Footwork is no faster than standard H2H). TP feed per time unit is heavily in Footwork's favor, but TP feed per damage unit (ie: factoring in time to kill the mob) is only somewhat in Footwork's favor, to the point that the total number of TP moves that you'll face when using Footwork is probably the same as the number of TP moves when not using Footwork (Footwork may end up generating one less move, though it depends on the length of the fight).

It's "not interesting" because the calculations support what we already know: that you're not reducing TP gain enough for it to matter in any realistic scenario. It's "interesting" because reduced TP feed per unit time is one of the only measurable advantages Footwork has, and as such must be considered part of what the devs figure is 'important' about the use of the ability.

If they continue to build on Footwork based on that narrow scope of assumption then Footwork will never have more than the most marginal of uses. Therefore it's important that certain understandings be made clear on its use and functionality before attempting to move forward.


Aside: The calculations of course assume only a single DD on the mob, the mnk. Add a second or third DD and all calculations about TP feed pretty much go out the window, and attempts to reduce TP feed that are not universal (eg: Penance, Auspice) are largely meaningless.

[Kendlar]

Monks have access to "Main" Amber. As a main job, they have many Amber WS. It's Hand to Hand that does not have access to Amber WS, or Elemental WS. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. Elemental WS suck.

Monks have Main job skill in Hand to Hand, Staff, and Club. It wouldn't really make sense to add Amber to any existing h2h WS because none of them have remotely elemental properties, and personally I'd like to keep it that way.

Yes im sure people think of club and staff as the main weapon of choise for a Monk.
Again, just add it to a weaponskill thats allready in the game.
I would like a amber hand to hand weaponskill for sure, would make it ALOT easier when farming stuff solo in abyssea.

[Gokku]

Yes im sure people think of club and staff as the main weapon of choise for a Monk.
Again, just add it to a weaponskill thats allready in the game.
I would like a amber hand to hand weaponskill for sure, would make it ALOT easier when farming stuff solo in abyssea.

stop being lazy your request is retarded just use a staff not like its the end of the world.

[Cursed]

MNK has no trouble capping Amber Solo... request for an elemental H2H is not worth the dev's time.

I pray the dev's and moderators don't waste their time answering this request ; ;. More important / popular requests to address and I hate it when the Moderators actually address the least popular requests and leave out the things we all want feedback on.

[Kendlar]

stop being lazy your request is retarded just use a staff not like its the end of the world.
Yeah, im not the one beeing retarded here....

[Gokku]

you seem to be the only crying for a amber hth ws.

[Kendlar]

You mean wanting...

[user201108211515]

This is ff1 style for those that remember... since we wont ever see monk master class

JA, Master: prevents the use of JAs and are unable to equip weapons, higher delay and added damage. Like crazy damage..

was an ability to remove status effects I forget the name...

an aoe chakra

a JA flying kick.. aka jump..

Are more abilitys from like fft/ffta/ffta2 i forget which atm but mnk could use some more to do.. mnk is such a lazy and selfish job..

[Gokku]

come on youve really got to try harder then that to troll on monks.

[Cream_Soda]

come on youve really got to try harder then that to troll on monks.
Lol, SE read this when they did the job update notes today

[Gokku]

/wrist why god why se

[Psxpert2011]

As with almost all the new "Maniestos" rather than give player acces to both 2 hr ability of job and sub job, SE seems to be going in the direction of "mini 2hrs".

Not being a high lvl monk(lvl37), I don't know what's going on with this job but here's my 2cents...
...chakra already had a regen effect? I think this would have been a perfect spot to create a regain effect for monks.
...out if all the jobs I think Monk should have gotten a native "Stun chance%". Maybe tied to kicks?
....I've suggested before a NON-decaying(set duration), random STAT down effect /JA called "Crippling Blow".


Hey guys, mnk has no native mp but we should natively give them something that costs mp!

Wow, ever since Samerai got that ability to divide its T P to skill chain solo, the concept of mim-2hour was born! A mini-2hour for Monk would be relative and somewhat necessary considering the type of mobs to expect in the future. SE did the same for Dragoon with adjusting its 2hour way back in the day. I don't see what sub jobs have to do with anything...

Anyways, a Monk with MP would be nicely encouraging to use new abilities... as I recall, I don't know anything being used now at this time... why not a mixture of elements with curtain weapon skills (like the non-elemental skills, spinning strike comes to mind)?

[Gokku]

no stop posting bad ideas for useless stuff , fix boost fix guard and if anything raise our natural attack acc and crit rate.

[Motenten]

Vaguely amused. Just re-read the original manifesto (hadn't checked it in a few weeks), and noticed the description for mnk had stuff I'd forgotten about:


There's still room to build upon their renowned self-defense tactics such as Chakra and Counter, and they can also benefit from some extra training in skills like Subtle Blow and Chi Blast that leave foes too weak to fend off attacks from other party members.

The little enfeebling suggestion I made as an addition for Footwork actually fits right in with that last bit, "leave foes too weak to fend off attacks from other party members". So, maybe there's a non-zero chance of the suggestion actually being considered :)


The mention of Subtle Blow means we can probably expect another tier of it in the next update. Have to test it. That would put us at +25 from the trait, and +20 in common good gear (AF3+2 head, Rajas, Black Belt); easily capped if you use Agasaya instead of Faith.


While we got no new JAs this update (and really, not surprised or disappointed), I don't believe there's been any official statement about 'adjustments' to all the jobs' JAs yet, aside from sch's 2hr, so there's still the possibility of tweaks to existing JAs.

[DebbieGibson]

The mention of Subtle Blow means we can probably expect another tier of it in the next update. Have to test it. That would put us at +25 from the trait, and +20 in common good gear (AF3+2 head, Rajas, Black Belt); easily capped if you use Agasaya instead of Faith.

This means they will have to do something to spharai aftermath

[hiko]

This means they will have to do something to spharai aftermath
fix it like they fixed aegis/burtgang (go overcap)

[Swords]

JA: Sucker Punch- Your next attack bypasses a set amount of your opponent's defense.
Recast: 30 seconds
Duration: 3 Minutes
Initial cast: 20% Bypass
Additional casts: +5% Bypass
Maximum: 50%

Notes:
-Only works with Physical attacks and Non-AoE Physical Weaponskills
-Monsters will maintain a minimum of 250 Defense regardless of how much the ability is used. (For balance)
-Monsters that have 250 or less defense naturally will not be effected by Sucker Punch effects. (Because at higher levels your essentially already breaking through a monsters defenses.)
-Additional gear bonuses may decrease the minimum defense a monster can have, or increase the maximum percentage of defense bypassed.

Essentially it make's us a bit stronger on harder things, but prevents us from being overbearingly powerful on weaker stuff. The numbers can be changed to be more fitting for balance issues, and it could even be given to MNK at a low enough level to be subable to other jobs. With recasts preventing just any players from spamming it to it's maximum potential (like boost) it receives some diminishing value on higher end DPS jobs, but could potentially give a major boost to lower DPS. It's just an idea that struck my fancy out of the blue though.

[Deo_Ragnarok]

More JA Ideas:

Discourage: "En-TP Drain" ability similar to Conqueror Bakgodek in Campaign? If that's too overpowered, simply dissipating the enemy's TP with every punch instead of absorbing it would grant more utility vs overpowered advantage.
-Would love to combine either of those with HundredFist as a followup for "Chainspell: Stun."

Channel: a stronger boost ability that shares boost's timer but takes 3min to reuse and only raises 3/4 the benefit of a full 3min boosting session. This makes for a tactical decision to boost+ws on common monsters or channel+ws on TP-cancel / amnesia prone monsters like gnats, colibri, and ladybugs. For Chi-blast, it could be used for raising damage on initial-hate. On a side note: I'd like it to gain 3/4 the enmity of boosting for 3min.

[DebbieGibson]

That would make boost useless.. which well I guess it already is hah.