New Avatars Are Coming

[Drhatchet]

Vision
Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.

Example Adjustments

A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.
Introducing the avatars Cait Sith and Atomos.

Not so excited Atomos is coming since it will have to be another 2h ability, but Cait Sith could be fun.

[Korpg]

I hope that neither are 2hr only avatars.

Maybe Cait Sith will become our new Light elemental avatar.

...damn, need to finish WotG stat!

[Neonii]

I don't like the mp statement. And if one is a two hour how much more mp can it take? Are we gonna have some type of mp debt?

[Dohati]

what...? cait sith is an avatar??? since when!? o_O

[Inafking]

If there are like Odin and Alex where they use the 2hr, don't even bother, Square.

[Bubeeky]

wow such negativity even before the idea gets off the ground...other threads were convinced there wouldn't even be new avatars, so be happy lol

[StingRay104]

what...? cait sith is an avatar??? since when!? o_O

Next update lol

[Kensagaku]

Atomos may not be a 2hr ability. I remember there was one WoTG mission where you fight a Cait Sith that summons Atomos in a smaller form; it's possible that we'll get something like this with extended BPs. On the other hand, you may be right and it may be a 2hr that drains HP/MP/Stats from the enemy and gives it to you (his specific move in the mission). We really won't know until the update.

[Arciel]

i've a feeling Atomos is gonna suck


..literally :p

Hopefully both of them will be full-time avatars. Cait Sith will do just fine as the next light based avatar.

as for Atomos, if its not fulltime, then its probably 2hr styled.. and it'd better be something useful, like say reduce all stats, eva, mag eva, def, mag def, removes all beneficial statuses and prevents beneficial statuses for a certain period of time. Ultimate Suck!

[Karbuncle]

Sorry if this sounds negative but


If there are like Odin and Alex where they use the 2hr, don't even bother, Square.

I agree with this 100%. I don't need another Toy i can only use once every 2 hours. I love SMN as a job, But the last thing we need on our plate is another avatar so situational, it can only be used once every 2 hours, and is weighted between 3 others (Odin, Alexander, Atomos, and Cait sith).

I'll wait for that particular update though, as I right now don't have any expectations on this. Because they haven't mentioned them being 2hour only and I dont think Cait Sith would be a logical "2hr only" mob.

[Sasaraixx]

Just out of curiosity, how far do I need to get myself in the WoTG missions? Haha I planned to take my time And go through them eventually but I'll make getting to the necessary mission a priority :)

[Korpg]

Sorry if this sounds negative but


If there are like Odin and Alex where they use the 2hr, don't even bother, Square.

I agree with this 100%. I don't need another Toy i can only use once every 2 hours. I love SMN as a job, But the last thing we need on our plate is another avatar so situational, it can only be used once every 2 hours, and is weighted between 3 others (Odin, Alexander, Atomos, and Cait sith).

I'll wait for that particular update though, as I right now don't have any expectations on this. Because they haven't mentioned them being 2hour only and I dont think Cait Sith would be a logical "2hr only" mob.

They didn't mention that Odin and Alexander was 2hr only when they first announced those 2 avatars either.

[Korpg]

Just out of curiosity, how far do I need to get myself in the WoTG missions? Haha I planned to take my time And go through them eventually but I'll make getting to the necessary mission a priority :)

Probably complete the whole storyline.

[Dallas]

I hope they have higher perp costs and better stats. We need to weed the bottom rung out.

[Khiinroye]

I'd guess that it's completion of WotG, possibly using the grauberg conflux to access the battlefield(s).

However, it could also be

[Karbuncle]

They didn't mention that Odin and Alexander was 2hr only when they first announced those 2 avatars either.

Pretty sure they said "They'll play differently than other avatars".

Because i remember the speculation of them being pure DPS with weaker BPs or something.

[azjazo]

Mh, been thinking, if DRG got their 2hr turned into a 20 min recast timer, it woulde VERY VERY nice that the astral flow to become a 20 min ability too, that way the 2rh avatars woulde be of more use, also the AoE pacts of regular avatars, and we could speculate in a brand new 2hr.

Astral Ward
Just of the top of my mind, maybe a 2hr that last X time depending on SMN skill like an aura effect that grants a super bar-like that absorbs damage of said element depending on avatar casted plus a buff ad hoc of said avatar (haste, double attack etc)

Astral Rage
Same as ward but instead of the bar-like aura an en-like aura plus the same buffs depending on avatar.

[Korpg]

I hope they have higher perp costs and better stats. We need to weed the bottom rung out.

You do realize that with higher perp costs, it would make melee summoner even more useless, right?

Instead of 14 mp per tick perp to keep your avatars out, it will cost you 16/17 mp per tick instead, plus the additional cost of 164/176 MP to use the lower timed BP. You wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

If anything, you should be rejecting this because it hurts your playstyle the most.

[Neonii]

You do realize that with higher perp costs, it would make melee summoner even more useless, right?

Instead of 14 mp per tick perp to keep your avatars out, it will cost you 16/17 mp per tick instead, plus the additional cost of 164/176 MP to use the lower timed BP. You wouldn't be able to keep up with it.

If anything, you should be rejecting this because it hurts your playstyle the most.

I don't like it I think it sounds like a kick in the teeth just when we were getting used to keeping the avatars out.

[Razushu]

I don't like it I think it sounds like a kick in the teeth just when we were getting used to keeping the avatars out.

Lets not panic til we find out how much it will cost us to use. it could only be a 25% increase is cost for a 15sec delay minus, as it stands I could handle this simply by leveling /RDM.

[Razushu]

I hope they have higher perp costs and better stats. We need to weed the bottom rung out.

You are the bottom rung.

[Dallas]

You do realize that with higher perp costs, it would make melee summoner even more useless, right?

I have more MP to spare, bandwagoner. That means more expensive avatars and "MP for reduced timers" benefit me more than you. Did you ever play SMN while levelling it?

[Korpg]

I don't like it I think it sounds like a kick in the teeth just when we were getting used to keeping the avatars out.

For normal players sure, its not that bad. With minimal work, you can have free avatars, and can get up to +2 mp refresh (+5 on day of the week bonus/weather bonus of +2 AF hands) without any type of refresh offered.

For him, who knows.

[Korpg]

I have more MP to spare, bandwagoner. That means more expensive avatars and "MP for reduced timers" benefit me more than you. It's almost like you bought your account.

You use more MP than me. It doesn't matter that you state you can recover 900+ MP per 300% TP, but I know you need that much because that is how much it costs for you to keep an avatar out for 3 minutes. That is about as long as it would take for you to get 300% TP, if not longer with some mobs. But, in the sake of argument, we are talking about trash mobs, so getting 300% TP for you isn't that difficult in 3 minutes.

You can keep up now, but can you keep up with MP when you have the ability to use more of it? But then again, you wouldn't be able to keep up with it if you are constantly riding on empty every time. This new ability will break you if you use it. So you won't. So you will fall farther behind everyone else because of it.

Also, that comment of buying my account? Real smooth. Out of everyone, that query should be placed on you, not me.

[Razushu]

I have more MP to spare, bandwagoner. That means more expensive avatars and "MP for reduced timers" benefit me more than you. Did you ever play SMN while levelling it?

You are aware there's more - perp and refresh gear out therre than we currently need right? I have no MP problem right now and could fairly easily get another -2 perp and +2 refresh, and I've yet to level /RDM as well. Your MP arguments fall as flat on their face as you do.

[Dallas]

I know how much you depend on perp gear, Raz. I want the new avatars to drain your only resource and I want the new timer ability to drain my resource. I'm holding back because of the timer. I want to spend more MP because I can.

[Razushu]

I know how much you depend on perp gear, Raz. I want the new avatars to drain your only resource and I want the new timer ability to drain my resource. I'm holding back because of the timer. I want to spend more MP because I can.

So can I Dallas except I have the same resource and mine is just as unlimited as yours I'm going to finally level my /RDM and I'll still be in the same position I am now which is Unlimited MP, in fact I'll more than likely be even better off for MP as I doubt the cost will be that high.

[Vazerus]

This back and forth arguing about who plays SMN the best makes me giggle a little, lol.

[Razushu]

This back and forth arguing about who plays SMN the best makes me giggle a little, lol.

Me too, lol

[Dallas]

The lazy guy who barely managed a 700 DMG Full Swing with Fay Crozier and a staff skill 80-90 points under cap has never been under consideration for "best" anything.

Information still only flows one way.

[Karbuncle]

I think the best thing you could do Dallas is not hide behind a mule and really show everyone how amazing you are.

Think about it, If you just came here and showed everyone full proof of what you say they'd all shut up about it.

You'd win.

[Damage]

Hopefully 2 separate avatars incoming and not Cait Sith being 2 hour only and his BP is to summon Atomos (the feeling I get from remembering the WOTG battle) is not all we're left with.

Stating the obvious, it would be nice to have these 2 work independently, not require Astral Flow to call upon their powers and make the Alexander/Odin joke pack the only time this sort of things happens.

Although, I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably meet these 2 ideas in the middle and have Cait Sith as the obtainable and regular summonable avatar that will summon Atomos when Astral Flow has been used.

We'll see.

[Razushu]

The lazy guy who barely managed a 700 DMG Full Swing with Fay Crozier and a staff skill 80-90 points under cap has never been under consideration for "best" anything.

Information still only flows one way.

Barely managed? Please that was a demonstration of how easy it is to do big damage(doing 1k now lol) in Abyssea without even trying, and as such any epeen numbers you post of you in Abyssea are worthless. I'm a better SMN than you'll ever be a melee, hell I'm a better SMN than you could hope to be.

It sure does, but funnily enough it never flows from you.

[Razushu]

I think the best thing you could do Dallas is not hide behind a mule and really show everyone how amazing you are.

Think about it, If you just came here and showed everyone full proof of what you say they'd all shut up about it.

You'd win.

That's the thing there is no proof, Dallas never has proof. Anytime he's asked for something he hids behind stupid stuff like "You're not worthy of seeing my gear" or "I'll leave you to suffer without seeing my numbers".

For the record I'm not against SMN melee if the SMN is a good player and knows when to do it by all means go forth, just people who insist that it's the only way to play it, make stupid wild unsubstantiatable claims and say they fulltime melee and call gimp on anyone who disagrees.

[Razushu]

Although, I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably meet these 2 ideas in the middle and have Cait Sith as the obtainable and regular summonable avatar that will summon Atomos when Astral Flow has been used.

We'll see.

That would actually be kind of cool, although it would kind of screw us out of the 2 new avatars promised.

[Karbuncle]

That's the thing there is no proof, Dallas never has proof. Anytime he's asked for something he hids behind stupid stuff like "You're not worthy of seeing my gear" or "I'll leave you to suffer without seeing my numbers".

Yes. I'm aware.

I'm simply trying to tell him that if he finally provided evidence, proof, and stopped hiding behind a mule, he may actually win. He'd get what he wanted, Shutting up the naysayers.

I simply see no logic in calling yourself the best if you have no desire to prove your power. Then it just seems like a false king.

[Razushu]

Yes. I'm aware.

I'm simply trying to tell him that if he finally provided evidence, proof, and stopped hiding behind a mule, he may actually win. He'd get what he wanted, Shutting up the naysayers.

I simply see no logic in calling yourself the best if you have no desire to prove your power. Then it just seems like a false king.

This is true, if he showed himself to be a competant player I don't think anyone would have a problem with him(attitude aside).

[Caspr_Asura]

Yay! New avatars! ^^

[Razushu]

Yay! New avatars! ^^

I know it's weird that I find myself getting more excited about Atomos the more I think about it, I'm really curious to find out what he does and how he works.

[AyinDygra]

My concept of Atomos (before he was announced, still without details) was:

The summoned Avatar of Atomos (Atomos' Maw) would share many of Jikuu Sage's spells, just like many of the elemental avatars share their spells with Black Mage. Atomos allows its Maws to be summoned in their active, floating form. These maws attack by spinning around, letting their multiple blades slash through the enemy.

Physical Attack Additional Effect: Time Slip - Sends an enemy through time, aging it prematurely. Enemy loses stats on each hit up to 5 times. Adds increasing slow effect with each hit. (5 levels of this "Old Age" status, like dancer steps) This effect would wear off one step at a time, when Atomos does not attack to keep the effect up.

Level 1 Astral Flow: Rage: Ravenous Maw
Drains all the enemies' stats (Str/Dex/Vit/etc) and a large amount of HP, MP, all TP, and adds them to the summoner or a selected recipient.
* Stats drained by this method remain "reduced" for 10min.
* Drained stats remain added to Summoner. (possibly select target to receive the stats instead?)

Level 10 Rage: Stardust II
A shower of tiny burning meteors blast the region and set things ablaze.
* Causes "Burn" damage over time effect.
* Elemental Magic (Non-elemental, or Fire?)

Level 40 Rage: Gravity Well
Duration: 1min
Causes "Black Hole" status. The enemy who has been trapped in a gravity well ("Black Hole" status) cannot escape taking damage from these special additional dimensional magic bursts in the form of: Quarter, Demi and Lifeshaver
* Quarter adds 1/4th the damage of every level 1 skillchain's full Magic burst damage.
* Demi adds 1/2 the damage of every level 2 skillchain's full Magic burst damage.
* Lifeshaver adds the full damage of every level 3+ skillchain's full Magic burst damage, and heals the party by that amount split between members.
* The damage of these magic bursts is figured on the potential unresisted damage of the resulting magic bursts, even if the magic bursts are resisted. (The damage caused by Quarter, Demi, and Lifeshaver may do more damage than the original magic bursts that cause them)

Level 55 Rage: Atomize
When an enemy is low on life, Atomos may draw them into oblivion.
* Enemies killed this way will not drop items, gil or grant experience.
* Atomos will produce a crystal or crystal cluster from the consumed enemy, and it will be placed in the Treasure Pool.
* Crystal element is based on the crystal the enemy would have dropped normally.

Level 70 Rage: Ravages of War
Atomos disgorges a series of weapons from the Crystal War at the target. Swords, spears, arrows in flight, and bombs cause multiple rapid physical attacks. Critical hits are accompanied by "ornate" weapons replacing the ordinary ones that fly out of Atomos' maw.

Level 75 Rage: Comet II
A distant comet is pulled directly out of space, past the atmosphere, to crash into the caster's target with an icy blast.
* Causes "Frost" damage over time effect.
* Elemental Magic (Non-elemental, or Ice?)

Level 99 Rage: Ravages of Time
Greatly reduces enemy's Accuracy, Evasion, Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion, Attack Power, Movement Speed. In addition, it can inflict Blind, Slow, Bind, Gravity as separate effects.


Level 1 Ward: Memory Drain
Enemy is unable to use special attacks.

Level 32 Ward: Decelerate
Increase recast timers for all of your target's spells and abilities.
* This stops enemies from using TP moves until they have 300TP.
* Reduces TP gain from all actions. (Decelerating Weaponskill frequency)
* Adds the "Slow" status, but less potent than the Slow spell.
* Reduces movement speed. 12%

Level 68 Ward: Slow Motion
Reduces enemy attack speed.
* Not a form of slow. Does not impact TP returns.
* Also reduces enemy's chance for "extra" attacks such as double attack, triple attack and kick attack.

Level 99 Ward: Chronolock
AoE-Party
Prevent changes in speed for the duration.
* Duration of all haste/slow/gravity/quickening effects are paused for the duration of the Chronolock effect.
* No new speed spells will take effect.
* Can be manually removed.
* Can be used against enemies.

(I included tiers of Stardust and Comet, implying the possible addition of other time/space dimensional (Jikuu) magic that actually makes use of other tiers of those spells.)

[Neonii]

My concept of Atomos (before he was announced, still without details) was:

The summoned Avatar of Atomos (Atomos' Maw) would share many of Jikuu Sage's spells, just like many of the elemental avatars share their spells with Black Mage. Atomos allows its Maws to be summoned in their active, floating form. These maws attack by spinning around, letting their multiple blades slash through the enemy.

Physical Attack Additional Effect: Time Slip - Sends an enemy through time, aging it prematurely. Enemy loses stats on each hit up to 5 times. Adds increasing slow effect with each hit. (5 levels of this "Old Age" status, like dancer steps) This effect would wear off one step at a time, when Atomos does not attack to keep the effect up.

Level 1 Astral Flow: Rage: Ravenous Maw
Drains all the enemies' stats (Str/Dex/Vit/etc) and a large amount of HP, MP, all TP, and adds them to the summoner or a selected recipient.
* Stats drained by this method remain "reduced" for 10min.
* Drained stats remain added to Summoner. (possibly select target to receive the stats instead?)

Level 10 Rage: Stardust II
A shower of tiny burning meteors blast the region and set things ablaze.
* Causes "Burn" damage over time effect.
* Elemental Magic (Non-elemental, or Fire?)

Level 40 Rage: Gravity Well
Duration: 1min
Causes "Black Hole" status. The enemy who has been trapped in a gravity well ("Black Hole" status) cannot escape taking damage from these special additional dimensional magic bursts in the form of: Quarter, Demi and Lifeshaver
* Quarter adds 1/4th the damage of every level 1 skillchain's full Magic burst damage.
* Demi adds 1/2 the damage of every level 2 skillchain's full Magic burst damage.
* Lifeshaver adds the full damage of every level 3+ skillchain's full Magic burst damage, and heals the party by that amount split between members.
* The damage of these magic bursts is figured on the potential unresisted damage of the resulting magic bursts, even if the magic bursts are resisted. (The damage caused by Quarter, Demi, and Lifeshaver may do more damage than the original magic bursts that cause them)

Level 55 Rage: Atomize
When an enemy is low on life, Atomos may draw them into oblivion.
* Enemies killed this way will not drop items, gil or grant experience.
* Atomos will produce a crystal or crystal cluster from the consumed enemy, and it will be placed in the Treasure Pool.
* Crystal element is based on the crystal the enemy would have dropped normally.

Level 70 Rage: Ravages of War
Atomos disgorges a series of weapons from the Crystal War at the target. Swords, spears, arrows in flight, and bombs cause multiple rapid physical attacks. Critical hits are accompanied by "ornate" weapons replacing the ordinary ones that fly out of Atomos' maw.

Level 75 Rage: Comet II
A distant comet is pulled directly out of space, past the atmosphere, to crash into the caster's target with an icy blast.
* Causes "Frost" damage over time effect.
* Elemental Magic (Non-elemental, or Ice?)

Level 99 Rage: Ravages of Time
Greatly reduces enemy's Accuracy, Evasion, Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion, Attack Power, Movement Speed. In addition, it can inflict Blind, Slow, Bind, Gravity as separate effects.


Level 1 Ward: Memory Drain
Enemy is unable to use special attacks.

Level 32 Ward: Decelerate
Increase recast timers for all of your target's spells and abilities.
* This stops enemies from using TP moves until they have 300TP.
* Reduces TP gain from all actions. (Decelerating Weaponskill frequency)
* Adds the "Slow" status, but less potent than the Slow spell.
* Reduces movement speed. 12%

Level 68 Ward: Slow Motion
Reduces enemy attack speed.
* Not a form of slow. Does not impact TP returns.
* Also reduces enemy's chance for "extra" attacks such as double attack, triple attack and kick attack.

Level 99 Ward: Chronolock
AoE-Party
Prevent changes in speed for the duration.
* Duration of all haste/slow/gravity/quickening effects are paused for the duration of the Chronolock effect.
* No new speed spells will take effect.
* Can be manually removed.
* Can be used against enemies.

(I included tiers of Stardust and Comet, implying the possible addition of other time/space dimensional (Jikuu) magic that actually makes use of other tiers of those spells.)

Interesting ideas

[Malamasala]

You know what would surprise me the most? And SE tend to surprise me the most...

If they indeed were like ifrit etc. because neither of them have any default pacts to talk about. One could argue that the cats have a set of moves, but overall they weren't really impressive in the BCNM. Atomos though, has nothing, he just absorbs and transfers stats.

When SE had a ready set of moves for Odin and Alexander for pacts, but ripped them away... why would they go through the trouble of adding new ones to the next set of avatars? Everything points at them not doing this, and that they'll only be 2 new 2 hour moves.

But as I said... SE usually does the most unexpected thing when it comes to SMN. They are crazy enough that they could sit down and make new pacts, when they in the past tossed finished and ready pacts in the recycle bin.

Of course, it was only an example. Last time we got an example/info we were going to get a whole new set of avatars that we'd be able to keep out longer than our old ones... And we got Odin and Alexander, the shortest time avatars we can find. One could say two people who never talk advertise/program SMN.




What annoys me to the bone though, is that in SE's vision, there is no room for wards or spirits. They are only thinking "Massive rage pacts"... which I guess isn't terrible for level 90+, but it is like playing WHM and hear someone say "Massive cures!". I'd roll my eyes anyway.

[Korpg]

What is keeping Square Enix from making movesets for both avatars that are coming?

[Arciel]

Yes. I'm aware.

I'm simply trying to tell him that if he finally provided evidence, proof, and stopped hiding behind a mule, he may actually win. He'd get what he wanted, Shutting up the naysayers.

I simply see no logic in calling yourself the best if you have no desire to prove your power. Then it just seems like a false king.

one would think the exact same thing..
because proof would vindicate any of whatever he says and people don't really have a choice but to shut up even if they aren't in agreement.

but this is Craftermath/Elementa/Dallas we're talking about and he's not one for logic. The only "proof" he's ever provided was a hand-parse and prefers to act like a troll, so don't expect anything from him.

[Karbuncle]

Interesting ideas

I thought some of the concepts were intriguing but a lot of his ideas were ludicrously broken. I.E Amnesia as a level 1 BP, Stopping an Enemy from TP'ing until 300% (Redonkulously broken), and the Additional Effect on melee attacks is also redonkulously broken.

His other ideas were... interesting to say the least, I quite liked some of the BP descriptions.

[AyinDygra]

I thought some of the concepts were intriguing but a lot of his ideas were ludicrously broken. I.E Amnesia as a level 1 BP, Stopping an Enemy from TP'ing until 300% (Redonkulously broken), and the Additional Effect on melee attacks is also redonkulously broken.

His other ideas were... interesting to say the least, I quite liked some of the BP descriptions.

* Amnesia - I didn't list how long it would last, or any other balancing factors. It could also be moved up from level 1.

* 300% enemy TPing - Do you know how fast enemies get 300% TP under normal conditions with a group attacking it? The only really useful time for this ability is near the end of the monster's life, when its AI says to use special abilities more often. People may decide to use this to rush the enemy to death, or just make its end-of-life-AI easier to survive. It would help in Abyssea to get triggers, as a minor point. I also didn't say how long it would last.

* The addtional effect on melee attacks doesn't list any numbers. Maybe it's only 1% slow on each hit, up to 5%, along with reducing enemy stats as if their main job had dropped 1 level each time. (you really don't get many stats with each level up) I guess I didn't describe what the "Old Age" status did in my Atomos post. (I'm preparing a more complete idea post that has a lot more detail and many more ideas, not just about Atomos or Summoners)

[Karbuncle]

* Amnesia - I didn't list how long it would last, or any other balancing factors. It could also be moved up from level 1.

* 300% enemy TPing - Do you know how fast enemies get 300% TP under normal conditions with a group attacking it? The only really useful time for this ability is near the end of the monster's life, when its AI says to use special abilities more often. People may decide to use this to rush the enemy to death, or just make its end-of-life-AI easier to survive. It would help in Abyssea to get triggers, as a minor point. I also didn't say how long it would last.

* The addtional effect on melee attacks doesn't list any numbers. Maybe it's only 1% slow on each hit, up to 5%, along with reducing enemy stats as if their main job had dropped 1 level each time. (you really don't get many stats with each level up) I guess I didn't describe what the "Old Age" status did in my Atomos post. (I'm preparing a more complete idea post that has a lot more detail and many more ideas, not just about Atomos or Summoners)

First off, I'd like to open by saying You're taking this entirely too personally and a chill pill might be in order.

moving on,

Why not be more specific to prevent people from misunderstanding?

I mean, Is Amnesia going to be useless and last ~3 seconds like the Great Axe? Either way, Amnesia at level one is broken no matter how its looked at, The earliest Amnesia players get access too i believe is Vermeil Bhuj... Which is over level 75 (i dont recall exact level). So giving us a level ~76BP With Atomos that inflicts Amnesia for say, ~30 seconds I wouldn't consider horribly broken.

On the topic of TP, To use your own words in a way, Do you understand how controlled you can keep a mobs TP? Humor this, You're a THF Tank in abyssea, You're using Twilight Knife (Which has about 10% Chance to drain 1-10TP), RR/GH/Apoc (GH has +50AGI), Cruor buffs (+40 minimum with Abyssite), etc, and SB form Subjob(/nin), +5 from Teircal neck, and +5 from Raja... You could keep a mob under 300%TP for almost an entire fight given it has no Regain and/or absurd Store-TP Traits, You could probably kill a good deal of mobs before it got even 1 TP move off at that rate too. (Exp mobs especially, Not a lot of NMs, But you can keep some NMs under ~2/3 TP moves a fight)

On those types of fights that ability might be a little OP'd, If only a little (or not at all?) Especially under 25% HP as of course, under that percentile Mobs will use TP at 100%, as opposed to from 100% > 50% they use Randomly, 50% > 25% They'll use at 200%, and from 25% > 0 they use TP at 100%.

Still, Since you weren't very specific on the mob, I'll use Voidwatch as an Example. You generally don't zerg rush those types of mobs, Their AoEs are quite potent and you're at a distance almost form start to finish on any tier higher than 2. So this BP would be pretty useful for that Percentile. Maybe not horribly broken in retrospect, Most NMs either have an insane Regain or a high Store TP... So it wouldn't entirely matter.

Still that might set it up to be useless.

On your third bullet point, I reiterate, You should clarify more than. When you describe something that inherently sounds broken i simply think it would be a good idea to clarify values as to not make it sound like you're inflicting the mob with 5 stages of 10% slow with each Melee attack and draining their stats simultaneously.

[AyinDygra]

Recently, every idea I put forth on any job board is getting called "overpowered", and now ... "ludicrously broken" and "redonkulously broken", when nothing put forth in my original ideas really are overpowered except in the imaginations of those who imagine things to be too weak or too powerful to exist, perhaps through experience with SE's past adjustments and additions to the game. I don't like to get into the "math" of things, leaving actual balancing up to SE, since even if I were to perfectly balance my ideas, the final numbers are up to SE anyway. It's the "concept" I'm looking to get across, and I think overall, I'm usually successful.

I'm not really taking it personally exactly... just clearing up misconceptions whenever I get a chance, so the original ideas can be examined without numbers being skewed into absurdity (not saying you did this).

Edit: Also, I prefer not to add "low" values, hoping upon hopes that SE is generous with its implementation. It pained me to offer the 1% slow suggestion, just to temper the view. (I'd rather all jobs become much more powerful at a new tier of "balanced" - not keeping all jobs balanced to the power we currently see.)

[Malamasala]

What is keeping Square Enix from making movesets for both avatars that are coming?

I don't know. Same thing that made Alexander lose his movesets? Or perhaps same thing that prevents us from getting Bahamut? Most likely it is just some random guy at their Office that says yay or nay depending on moon phase.

[Dallas]

but this is Dallas we're talking about

I'm the person responsible for BST and SMN becoming top 10 jobs. There is no secret who I am. I'm the one who has the weapon you want.

[Razushu]

I'm the person responsible for BST and SMN becoming top 10 jobs. There is no secret who I am. I'm the one who has the weapon you want.

Pretty much eveyone doesn't know who you are, aside from a mage melee crusading forum troll with 0 evidence to back up a single claim.

You've got an enviable sense of self respect there kid. Sometimes I hate messing with it.

[Korpg]

You've got an enviable sense of self respect there kid. Sometimes I hate messing with it.
Dallas is the biggest load of horseshit to come out of the world since Obama's Healthcare plan
I don't.

[Pebe]

Lets start by saying this:

In all honesty, Melee smn on the new endgame content is not very advantageous to your health. If you get close to Celaeno, you get one shotted. Hahava, one shotted. Voidwrought, one shotted, Belphoebe, ehh 2 shotted, etc. Although with maybe a sch giving you adloquiem and or a cor giving tacticians roll, hvergelmir can still be a great asset to smn. Although currently, there is really no need for all that extra mp it gives, since mp is not really an issue if your perp- set is geared correctly. I get +4 mp refresh regardless of the avatar i have out, at all time. With the new increase of mp for bp delay- hvergelmir may shine more, but not at the cost of the smn's life. Go go tacticians roll (And dusty wing spam during all of voidwatch :P!

Moving on and back on topic!

Personally I hope Atomos turns into his giant sky form during 2hr, or caitsith turn into his giant cat form, would both be funny. Btw, what kind of avatars are Atomos and Cait sith? They arn't celestial right? Perhaps terrestrial? I know cait sith (spoiler in white) was created by Altana's tear or something like that because she was sad regarding the path the future took. So that would make him a terrestrial avatar right? Because weren't the terrestrial avatars created by Altana to watch over the five fragments of the mother crystal? (It has been awhile, I'm forgetting all my ffxi lore ; ;) So what would that make atomos? Did it ever tell in WoTG how atomos came to be? Or is he like the celestial avatars? While we are on this topic, why are Odin and Alexander considered celestial avatars? Prehaps someone versed in their smn lore could clear up this confusion for me :P?

[Dallas]

Voidwatch, still not replacing Abyssea.

[Malamasala]

In all honesty, Melee smn on the new endgame content is not very advantageous to your health.

To be fair though. You don't want WAR, DRK, SAM, etc on the new endgame content either. They are more or less "Zerg" only, while you'd rather want something brain dead and simple like BLMs or SMNs for other fights.

[Korpg]

To be fair though. You don't want WAR, DRK, SAM, etc on the new endgame content either. They are more or less "Zerg" only, while you'd rather want something brain dead and simple like BLMs or SMNs for other fights.

Thing about WAR, DRK, SAM etc. vs melee SMN is that they are doing the job they are designed to do. Physical damage with the weapon that they are most capable to doing the most damage with. Melee SMN is a type of playstyle that can be more detrimental towards the party than helpful. Sometimes it is not worth having an extra DD on the mob, because of the TP feed and such. For example: Glavoid. Easy enough for a 6 man party to kill, hard when an alliance kills it.

You know why that is? It absorbs damage while using a TP move, a couple of TP moves are the kinds that you don't want to have a lot of people next to (one absorbs 300-800 HP from each person, the other absorbs ALL buffs from all players in range) and one of those TP moves can be instant death to 1-6 people, depending on how many people feed it TP and heal it.

Now, if you came as SMN and start meleeing Glavoid, I will make it a point to not only get you kicked from the party, but kicked from the group period. Just because you would endanger everyone in the party like that shows how little you care about others and how blind you are in your own role.

[Dallas]

Thing about WAR, DRK, SAM etc. vs melee SMN is that they are doing the job they are designed to do.

They aren't invited to melee on the mobs you cling to. Fail argument is fail, no matter how angry you get.

[Khiinroye]

I'm the person responsible for BST and SMN becoming top 10 jobs. There is no secret who I am. I'm the one who has the weapon you want.

So now you're claiming responsibility for astral flow burns and finding that the lv 76+ jugpets could out-dd a standard gimp pickup DD?

[Korpg]

They aren't invited to melee on the mobs you cling to. Fail argument is fail, no matter how angry you get.

Thing is, a WAR + WHM can duo any mob, so can DRG, so can DRK, so can MNK, so can most any job.

Except mage jobs that is. Like SMN + WHM. WHM would die from curing you while you wiff. WHM would do better meleeing also, but would die just about the same time as you.

[Kiakasha]

If there are like Odin and Alex where they use the 2hr, don't even bother, Square.

agreed... I'm looking forward to some bullshit...

[Dallas]

Thing is, a WAR + WHM can duo any mob, so can DRG, so can DRK, so can MNK, so can most any job.

The topic is Void NMs, which I'm sure you have already forgotten. Can WAR + WHM duo those? I'm guessing this is just another reading failure of Korpg.

[Korpg]

The topic is Void NMs, which I'm sure you have already forgotten. Can WAR + WHM duo those? I'm guessing this is just another reading failure of Korpg.

Guess you fail at reading then. I wasn't talking about that, and neither were you. But you will discover Pluto isn't a planet pretty soon, so I guess we should just let this go by.

[Dallas]

Posts #53 and #54. Read the thread and stop posting until you do.

[Korpg]

Gasp! I wasn't talking to you when I made that post that you quoted.

I was talking to Mala, you took my quote out of context, I responded in a general way, you spout "Voidwatch."

And you accuse me of not reading.

[Malamasala]

Now, if you came as SMN and start meleeing Glavoid, I will make it a point to not only get you kicked from the party, but kicked from the group period. Just because you would endanger everyone in the party like that shows how little you care about others and how blind you are in your own role.

I actually got temporarily kicked out of my LS for dealing TP free damage to Glavoid while they were screaming their pants off that they didn't want any TP fed until the fight was under control.

So if we consider that the server is filled with people who will kick you regardless of what you do, then perhaps you might as well cure only and never do anything else? At least I've yet to find someone who kicks me for healing.

[Korpg]

I'm sorry that your linkshell doesn't know what a SMN can do.

Unless, however, you kept healing it. Which, by the sounds of it, you were doing.

Besides, it also sounds like you were there just to hold a pop set. I mean, why else would they bring a SMN to Glavoid in the first place?

[Dallas]

Gasp! I wasn't talking to you when I made that post that you quoted.

I was talking to Mala, you took my quote out of context, I responded in a general way, you spout "Voidwatch."

And you accuse me of not reading.

And Mala responded to whom? You learning to read is much more interesting than your collective knowledge of FFXI.

[Dallas]

Even Mala was talking about "new engame content" so you are pretty much screwed.

[Korpg]

What's your point?

[Dallas]

You are screwed, that's my point. Take that BLM!

[Korpg]

I am? From what?

[Razushu]

I am? From what?

His mom?:D

[Kegsay]

We should already know some of the moves that these avatars will have (presuming they have actual BPs and aren't 2h only). Diabolos Prime from PM3-5 used all the moves that the actual avatar got later on. Since we've fought both the new avatars in WotG, this means:

Atomos
Soul Vacuum - AoE All Status Down
Soul Infusion - Passes debuffed stats from Vacuum to the summoner

Cait Sith
Regal Scratch - Single target damage (suspected low level BP move)
Divine Favor - Full erase and -na
Mewing Lullaby - AoE Sleep and TP reset (to 0)
Eerie Eye - Gaze amnesia and silence
Level ? Holy - Random dice roll (1~6) damage (possible 2hr move?)

This would mean Atomos has really little in terms of moves but could advocate the 'melee smn' playstyle which has persisted. Assuming Cait Sith has the normal number of BP moves (roughly 8 + 2hr) this means there will be 4 more BPs which we don't know about.

[Malamasala]

Unless, however, you kept healing it. Which, by the sounds of it, you were doing.

Never healed it, but of course we were two SMNs so the other one could have screwed up any amount of times and everyone else would still have only read "Garuda healed Glavoid for X HP".

So one could understand them, but at the same time it sucks that they think I don't know how to play my job even when I tell them not to worry because I know what I'm doing.


Besides, it also sounds like you were there just to hold a pop set. I mean, why else would they bring a SMN to Glavoid in the first place?

To the first part, I did have a pop set, so it could be that way. To the latter part, a Summoner who knows how to play the job is an excellent addition to Glavoid. (Or at least better than DNC or SCH which are my other jobs)

[Dohati]

Next update lol

i just meant like... atomos has always been an avatar, but nowhere in WotG is cait sith even hinted at being an avatar. going by the WotG plot i thought the cait siths were their own species.

[Malamasala]

i just meant like... atomos has always been an avatar, but nowhere in WotG is cait sith even hinted at being an avatar. going by the WotG plot i thought the cait siths were their own species.

I got the impression they were a god entity, but not the type to appear from summoning circles. Kind of like Bahamut.

[AyinDygra]

Cait Sith was introduced in the cutscenes having a disembodied metallic voice, before having a name, so I assumed they were a form of automaton. (They were even numbered)

[Imakun]

I got the impression they were a god entity, but not the type to appear from summoning circles. Kind of like Bahamut.

Bahamut is a terrestrial avatar just like Carbuncle and Fenrir, and they both have summoning circle. We don't see Bahamut's circle because he doesn't need to summon an avatar of himself like the others (which is also why SE keeps saying he's too powerful and mighty to let us have it), he's the real deal.
I don't really know about Atomos and Cait Sith, I'm not that far into WotG to even take a guess. Maybe they could be a new kind of Avatars?

[Arciel]

the Cait Sith are born from Altana's tears.. they're divine, to say the least...

[Camate]

Hey all! Got a bit of information from the development team about the new avatars that are incoming in a future version update.

While we don't have too many specifics to share because things are still in the planning stages, the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

[Karbuncle]

Just as i suspected!

Have to consider the positives of Atomos too, If he does what he does during the BCNM (Drains Enemies stats to 1, and gives them to player) then it would be quite more useful than people expect.

Lowering an NMs/HNMs Stats to 1 and giving that ~80+ stat to players in range would give Abyssea-level Stat boost while nerfing the mob. Could be quite powerful when used properly.

Actually quite excited about Cait Sith being a "walk around" pet.

[Sasaraixx]

Hey all! Got a bit of information from the development team about the new avatars that are incoming in a future version update.

While we don't have too many specifics to share because things are still in the planning stages, the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

Thanks for the update Camate! Many people were curious to hear how these two would be implemented.

I'm very happy to have Cait Sith fight beside me. We grew quite close during the WotG Missions :) And she is too cute!

Atomos as a 2hr avatar was expected. I just hope that his move is quite powerful and usable on NM/HNMs. I doubt we will be able to lower HNM stats to 1, but they should be lowered by at least half I think. It would also be a nice touch if the absorbed stats were split between party members in range.

I don't know if that is too difficult to do of course, but it would give SMNs another alternative in zerg type situations besides just Alexander. We use Alexander when the party is capable of doing damage, but not surviving the foes attacks. Atomos would be the opposite. The party needs to lower the NMs stats (and raise their own) in order to do enough damage. Odin is a bit trickier. I almost never use him now, so I'm not sure where he really shines. (Shiva is better for group damage in Abyssea and he apparently is resisted by a lot of NM's ;^^)

And if possible, could I make one request? Could Odin, Alex and Atomos have strong Resist traits, similar to Diabolos' Resist Sleep? It would be quite sad to summon our ultimate avatars, only to have a mob cast Sleepga as they ready their move.

[Malamasala]

Hey all! Got a bit of information from the development team about the new avatars that are incoming in a future version update.

While we don't have too many specifics to share because things are still in the planning stages, the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

While I'm honestly against what I'm going to say, it would be kind of fitting if Cait Sith's 2 hour actually was to summon Atomos.

[Horadrim]

Hey all! Got a bit of information from the development team about the new avatars that are incoming in a future version update.

While we don't have too many specifics to share because things are still in the planning stages, the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

I'll take it.

Atomos seems like he would have been a weird one to have following you around anyway.

[Sasaraixx]

While I'm honestly against what I'm going to say, it would be kind of fitting if Cait Sith's 2 hour actually was to summon Atomos.

To be honest, I thought that is what they were going to do too. It will be fun to think up a new 2hr for Cait Sith though. :)

[Zargosa]

Iono, Level ??? Holy seems like an appropriate 2 hour for a light based avatar. Moderate to Heavy AoE light magical damage.

[Lushipur]

time to exp smn *_*

urge to have Caith Sith raising...

[Malamasala]

Iono, Level ??? Holy seems like an appropriate 2 hour for a light based avatar. Moderate to Heavy AoE light magical damage.

So was Laser shower, but SE thought perfect defense was a better idea. Probably because doing damage would be a bit silly as an option to Odins death/damage move.

If you were allowed to pick any 2 hour for Cait sith though, I'd go with something that involves all 9 in some bizarre animation of a cat fight.

[Horadrim]

Honestly, I'm surprised SMN isn't getting Ixion as well. Unless they explained him in WotG's storyline, which I need to finish, he seem seems like a loose end.

[Tarage]

Thank you. As much as I love Carbuncle, he was always designed to be a weak avatar, and we haven't had a good light avatar. This fixes one of my biggest complaints.

[Francisco]

They should give Cait Sith some dialogue while he's out walking around. A little chatter.

Afterall, he was a bit more prevalent in the storyline than some other avatars. More important.

[Korpg]

Hey all! Got a bit of information from the development team about the new avatars that are incoming in a future version update.

While we don't have too many specifics to share because things are still in the planning stages, the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to us.

Atomos is a letdown, but is there any way you can give us any information about the movesets for Cait Sith? And what Atomos's 2hr will be?

[Tarage]

I get the feeling that Atomos's move will be similar to his ability in that one fight. Ala, he sucks stats from surrounding enemies and gives them to you/your party.

[Malamasala]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to us.

Atomos is a letdown, but is there any way you can give us any information about the movesets for Cait Sith? And what Atomos's 2hr will be?

I get the impression he can only really talk about things that are somewhat set in stone. Getting avatars is, pacts isn't.

Not that I'd mind them telling me things that end up false later. I'm quite used to never get what I expected anyway.

[Tarage]

I get the impression he can only really talk about things that are somewhat set in stone. Getting avatars is, pacts isn't.

Not that I'd mind them telling me things that end up false later. I'm quite used to never get what I expected anyway.

As long as the plan still calls for a light avatar that isn't just a 2 hour, I'm happy.

[Inafking]

the current plan is to make Cait Sith an avatar similar to the likes of Carbuncle, where you can go into battle with Cait Sith at your side. Atomos on the other hand would be similar to Odin and Alexander in that he is used solely for his 2 hour ability.

1/2 usefull pets is better than 0/2 I guess.

[Razushu]

I get the impression he can only really talk about things that are somewhat set in stone. Getting avatars is, pacts isn't.

Not that I'd mind them telling me things that end up false later. I'm quite used to never get what I expected anyway.

Most don't mind being told "Well we're probably going to do this", but you will get a few that will get in an uproar over "promised" things, that are different upon implementation.

[Razushu]

1/2 usefull pets is better than 0/2 I guess.

Depends on what Atomos does tbh, I fully expected him to be either 2hr only or part of Cait Sith(Called for 2hr).

[Soundwave]

Just as i suspected!

Have to consider the positives of Atomos too, If he does what he does during the BCNM (Drains Enemies stats to 1, and gives them to player) then it would be quite more useful than people expect.

Lowering an NMs/HNMs Stats to 1 and giving that ~80+ stat to players in range would give Abyssea-level Stat boost while nerfing the mob. Could be quite powerful when used properly.

Actually quite excited about Cait Sith being a "walk around" pet.

My thoughts as well, I do think maybe mob stats wont be lowered to 1...but who knows until we can actual test it. I'm sure it wouldn't be to far from imba. Boosting player stats will do considerable damage for sure. I do fear zerging has already come and gone though...in regards to Atomos.

Extremely interested in how the cat will perform. I'm actually kinda scared from the moves we see in game don't seem that appealing to me.

[Secondplanet]

i can see the cat being underpowered like carby is and is gonna be no more then eye candy, atmos will most likey be the main prize in the whole thing.

[Alkar]

Cait Sith has a move that inflicts Amnesia. That alone would be worth the addition if they make it stick on NMs.
They'll have to come up with new moves for her though as 4 BPs+ 2hr aren't nearly enough.

[Malamasala]

That would be assuming no other job gets amnesia spells up to 99. As soon as someone can do it, a pact inflicting it is worthless. See Poison, Blind, Bind, Paralyze, Slow, Gravity, Stun and whatever we already have.

[Lordscyon]

that sounds Awesome summons but yeah if you have too 2hr too get avatar like odin meh i woulndt really spend the time too get the avatar too begin with if its just for looks for only 2hr i hope not soo i can have my own! cool avatar walking with my tarutaru in vandiel

[Korpg]

That would be assuming no other job gets amnesia spells up to 99. As soon as someone can do it, a pact inflicting it is worthless. See Poison, Blind, Bind, Paralyze, Slow, Gravity, Stun and whatever we already have.

Unless, of course, the amnesia inflicted by Cait Sith is more potent/accurate/longer lasting than any spell or ability the other jobs give.

[Neonii]

Unless, of course, the amnesia inflicted by Cait Sith is more potent/accurate/longer lasting than any spell or ability the other jobs give.

I think that it would be best if such a thing was unique to SMN. I think every job should have something unique.

[Clou777]

summoners need SILENCEGA!! stick that on one of the new avatars!

[Korpg]

summoners need SILENCEGA!! stick that on one of the new avatars!

For what?white text

[Defiledsickness]

so you dont get hit by magic? and if you never solo you're not a real smn... so amnesia pact would still be nice when needed. looking forward to unlocking cait sith ^^

and idk why people dislike 2hour avatars. its better then nothing and they have their uses (alex for AV and odin for burns)

[Soundwave]

Unless, of course, the amnesia inflicted by Cait Sith is more potent/accurate/longer lasting than any spell or ability the other jobs give.

I do indeed hope your right, because this is the only thing I see weighting down the scale.

"If" we even get the Blood Pact:confused:

And "If" its not strong enough the cat just sounds like the new solo avatar:( Which I hope she will have better uses...I just got a bad feeling about this.

I fully welcome the power of Atomos.

[Malamasala]

I only want Siren with Silencega. That is how the FF series rolls.

[Korpg]

so you dont get hit by magic? and if you never solo you're not a real smn... so amnesia pact would still be nice when needed. looking forward to unlocking cait sith ^^

You are funny, you know that, right? Here is another way to not get hit by magic while soloing: Don't stand next to the avatar. Saved you a wasted BP.


and idk why people dislike 2hour avatars. its better then nothing and they have their uses (alex for AV and odin for burns)

You hit the nail on the head there bucko. They have uses, but very limited uses at that.

[Tarage]

Odds are she will cost the same as Diabolos, which isn't that much. Fenrir and Carbuncle are the exceptions to the rule. As long as Caitsith follows the same pattern as the other avatars she will be a welcome addition to the fold. I've been looking forward to a strong light avatar for years.

[AyinDygra]

I only want Siren with Silencega. That is how the FF series rolls.

These are a few of the ideas I had on a Siren summon...

Siren draws people to their dooms. Siren conceals its hideous true form with the appearance of a young, barely clothed entity who sings a beautiful song. This cloak of deception draws upon each hearer's own desires, so its appearance is actually different to each race and gender. The true form of Siren is like an orobon with massive jaws, but very low mobility.
(Terrestrial Avatar version of an Orobon)

Basic abilities (but not all):

2 Hour Rage: Siren Song
Draws enemies in, they stop attacking while "Charmed", and it deals a strong damage over time effect, ending with Siren's "Jaws of the Maelstrom" attack.

Siren's Revelation
When foes see the true source of the siren's song, it causes them to attack each other and themselves. (Confusion)

Hypnotic Lure
Puts enemies to sleep, high enmity.

Cloak of Deception
Share in the deceptive power of the Siren to sneak past enemies.
Grants Sneak/Invisible/Deodorize to the party.

Kiss of Death
Chance to inflict countdown-doom or a strong poison.

Able to cast Silence and Silencega... and Mute.

100% innate triple attack.

Siren could be encountered while on a boat while heading to another continent.
While I'd like this to be a summon, I could see it simply being an NM somewhere, like Dark Ixion, but... really... summon!

[Tarage]

We're already getting two new avatars. Don't get greedy.

Please SE: Implement the three AI fixes. It would go miles to fixing this job. Make some form of Stay command, get rid of the distance limit on being able to use the assault command, and fix the 'If the mob dies mid BP, the timer doesn't reset' problem.

[Korpg]

Yeah, the 3 things you think is wrong with SMN now, which only 1 is a true problem.

[Soundwave]

Mewing Lullaby Vs Eerie Eye

Any thoughts on this vs HNMs?

[Malamasala]

We're already getting two new avatars. Don't get greedy.

Not really greedy when Siren is the only additional avatar you ever really wanted. It is just SE that forgot to add it to the story and game all this time, and probably because they wanted to use less common avatars (like garuda).

[Karbuncle]

i want Doom train.

Who could not want Doom Train?

[DaiGurrenDan]

Haha oh man, Doomtrain was probably one of my favorite summons from FFVIII because it was just so silly. I fully support implementing Doomtrain, even more so if he (..it?) is a "walking around" avatar. I don't even know how that would work, but just imagine a train guarding you as you fish.

[Covenant]

More than likely caithsith will be a mix and match of current avatar/2 hr avatar. Meaning she'll normally do her regular avatar behaviors and her 2nd will be Atomos summons for massive AoE debuff. I think massive debuffs would be effective since I see a,ot of post about NM's resisting many spells, even when capped with gear.

Imagine Atomos debuff dropping resistance so low that the "normal" DoT and status spell become 100% against NM?

[Malamasala]

I don't think NMs in general have a plain immunity (for the really impossible things). So you'll never be able to land certain spells on some mobs. For example, Death probably do not work regardless of if you lower their stats to 1.

[Zinato]

Don't get me wrong im super excited for the new avatars. And, like most players I'm really hoping its not just a lame 2hr. That said avatars I've always wanted are Jumbo Cactuar, Valefor, Ixion, Tonberry King, and Siren. Just ideas of fun things I'd like to summon from FF History and 3 of which would fit nicely into FFXI. This also adds a new Earth, Wind, Lightning, Dark?, and Water summon so the elemental balance would remain mostly intact, while leaving room for a Fire and Ice avatar. I think they make sense Jumbo Cactuar, a larger cactuar (who I'd enjoy having in classic FF style though unlikely) a species that to date can only be summoned by BST and only by a single jug. Ixion, who was basically unofficially named with the creation of Dark Ixion. Thing is, a Dark Ixion can't really exist without a neutral or Light Ixion otherwise, whose to say the Ixion we know isnt Light Ixion. Last, the Tonberry King, since its a beastman to date they are unsummonable and who better to summon then the King himself. Am I asking for them now? No. Would I like the developers to know that myself and anyone else who is intrested would like to see them in the future? Yeah.

[Tarage]

This game is 9 years old. They are not going to add 6 more avatars. That would be the equivalent of giving BLMs 30 more spells.

Stop asking for dumb things and ask for legitimate fixes.

[Dallas]

The job doesn't need fixing. The players do.

[Tarage]

The job doesn't need fixing. The players do.

Yes, a lot of the people here have some very bad ideas, but the jobs need fixing as well.

[Malamasala]

Summoner is like a clown. While it works to make others laugh at you, some minor changes could make it look like a serious job.

[Neonii]

More than likely caithsith will be a mix and match of current avatar/2 hr avatar. Meaning she'll normally do her regular avatar behaviors and her 2nd will be Atomos summons for massive AoE debuff. I think massive debuffs would be effective since I see a,ot of post about NM's resisting many spells, even when capped with gear.

Imagine Atomos debuff dropping resistance so low that the "normal" DoT and status spell become 100% against NM?

So Caith Sith would have s such a move and then an additional two hour ability?

[Mirage]

lol, ok

΅

[Jonesy]

I'm glade they r adding new Avatres It's about time we nedd some more help on the light side of the fight
and not just a 2hr 1 eather Carby is nice but he needs some help.
And they r summ in other Final Fanstys games so would make sine to have them in XI as well.

[Defiledsickness]

anima! 2hour only, ok ^^

just glad cait sith will be tagging along. bahamut would be a fine 2hour as well. its fun getting to see the avatars, i mostly play for the show lol. or to not get hit :P

[Soundwave]

Some people need to learn the release command in real life.

Bahamut would be great ya but Odin has the spot for the 2 hour DD

[Draylo]

This game is 9 years old. They are not going to add 6 more avatars. That would be the equivalent of giving BLMs 30 more spells.

Stop asking for dumb things and ask for legitimate fixes.

wat? BLM got almost that much from 76>90 lol.

Stone, Water, Aero, Fire, Bliz, Thunder V, stoneja, waterja, aeroja, fireja, blizzaja, thundaja
Aspir2, break, comet, meteor, and whatever else they plan to add that has not been announced.

[Draylo]

Some people need to learn the release command in real life.

Bahamut would be great ya but Odin has the spot for the 2 hour DD

Ya that is why people were saying we wouldn't get another dark avatar since fenrir was already one when people were speculating about Diabolos right? That's why we have 3 now... variety is nice.

[Soundwave]

Ya that is why people were saying we wouldn't get another dark avatar since fenrir was already one when people were speculating about Diabolos right? That's why we have 3 now... variety is nice.

Indeed;);)

[Zinato]

Lol, It seems my words were taken to seriously. Do I expect to get anything beyond Cait Sith or Atomos? Not at all, There are plenty of avatars and the game functions just fine with them. Doesn't mean I can't share ideas, after all people once said Diabolos was the last, and then people said Odin and Alexander were the last. On top of which yeah 6 new avatars is not likely, maybe not even possible, but the more of my ideas I share the more likely one among them is used.

[Korpg]

Here is the million dollar question: What element would Bahamut be?

[Zinato]

Since Non-Elemental is not an option. The next best guess would be Fire if he is commandable, Dark if he only appears for Megaflare (light is your creative since light seems to be the fall back for non-elemental JA). Then again, for purposes of 2hr only does a summons elemental affinity make that huge of a difference?

[Draylo]

Yeah I don't think there is such a thing as non-elemental ? Otherwise I would think fire.

[Soundwave]

I'm just gonna go with Non-Elemental

[Karbuncle]

I don't think Non-elemental. Everything magical in FFXI has an element, even Meteor (Which i believe was proven to be dark based?)

Bahamut would likely be Fire, almost all his abilities are Fire, i think he even casts Fire spells (?).

[Draylo]

Yeah does cast high tier fire spells.

[Korpg]

Maybe that is the main reason why they don't want to use Bahamut as a SMN.

What would the other 5 elemental avatars be that would equal in power for Bahamut?

[Karbuncle]

Don't need one >_>

[Korpg]

You are right, they don't need 5 other elements, but still, you know SE and equality....

[Malamasala]

What equality? We already have 2 light and 3 dark avatars. And we are getting atomos as the 4th dark one... I'd say SE are more like some darkness clan who worships dark gods.

[Korpg]

What equality? We already have 2 light and 3 dark avatars. And we are getting atomos as the 4th dark one... I'd say SE are more like some darkness clan who worships dark gods.

2 hr only avatars don't count.

With Cait Sith, we are going to have 2 light/2 dark/1 of each other element.

[Karbuncle]

well, Bahamut would be a 2hour only so we're in the clear :P!

[Arciel]

I'd throw Bahamut into Light if I had to put him somewhere.

TBH, we've needed a new Light elemental avatar badly because Carbuncle just happens to have really weak stats or something.
A new Light avatar would be able to dish out better Light based attacks and stuff.

On the darkness side, we actually could do with an avatar that is actually truly darkness aligned elementally. Neither Diabolos nor Fenrir are particularly good with resisting their own element, and its a shame really, if SE would like us to choose avatars by element if our Dark (and actually Light) defensive options are lacking - can't exactly rely on spirits either.

[Tarage]

Maybe wanting Bahamut is a waste of time and you should drop it like you should have years ago.

[Soundwave]

Maybe people are just making conversation, pointing out facts about Bahamut, I think the first 14 pages already discuss what needed to be discussed about Atomos/Caitsith.

Can't give any realistic feedback because we don't know SE true intentions for Blood Pacts with Atomos/Caitsith....so everything is speculation of what they already do in game as of now.

[Babekeke]

Would people prefer to see Caitsith as a low-cost, low-damage avatar - similar to Carbuncle?
Or a high-cost, high-damage avatar - an even higher perp cost, high BP costs, but deals lots of DoT as well as decent BPs?

Personally I'd be all for the 2nd option, even if it means needing /rdm to keep up with mp and maybe even needing to rest again o.0

[Karbuncle]

Cait sith just looks/feels like a really weak avatar similar to Carbuncle. I've been surprised before, but something tells me this one will be Debuff/buff/Cure heavy.

As far as Bahamut being light, notsosure, Everything he does is Fire based, Fire spells, megaflare/Terraflare, being "Flare" in the name are likely fire... I think he'd be Fire :X, Wiki even lists it as "Fire" (though could be wrong)

[Tarage]

I want Caitsith to be like Diabolos, not like Carbuncle and Fenrir. Carbuncle has his uses, but he is the weakest avatar and we have no other option for light DD. We need a light DD avatar.

[Korpg]

I want Caitsith to be like Diabolos, not like Carbuncle and Fenrir. Carbuncle has his uses, but he is the weakest avatar and we have no other option for light DD. We need a light DD avatar.

Fenrir is a strong avatar for the cost associated with him. He also have some potent debuffs and buffs for any situation at hand.

Diabolos is a very weak damage dealing avatar. Sure, he has a nice dark element attack, but it is not worth the effort to bring him out just for that. Plus, it only deals nice damage when the mob is asleep, which then the mob wakes up from the damage, which then, why put the mob to sleep in the first place?

I hope that Cait Sith would be more like Fenrir, not Diabolos.

[Infidi]

So here's the real question: Will Cait Sith still be able to make those delicious fish sandwiches? What... she never did that for you guys? XD

[Babekeke]

Cait sith just looks/feels like a really weak avatar similar to Carbuncle. I've been surprised before, but something tells me this one will be Debuff/buff/Cure heavy.

I'd settle for cure/debuff heavy, as long as she gets big physical DD move, not magical. Main problem with carby is either getting tp bonus for the cure, or for the damage, not both.

[Defiledsickness]

bahamut should just cast non-elemental atks like Meteor. although he doesnt do any other element besides fire, he isnt a fire avatar. he's suppose to be non-elemental, but he's still a dragon (wyrm w/e). he could just do a non-elemental 2hour magic atk, that'd be ok for me.

but bahamut is a jerk in CoP so he would probably never help us. and is he an Avatar in this game? or just a wyrm? cuz cerberus is a avatar in FF8 but a normal mob in FF11.

[Arciel]

I expect Cait Sith to be a bit of a Light version of Fenrir..
Buff and debuff heavy.. some physical and magical BPs (a nice ranged light magic BP would be nice).

for me i think what I'd anticipate most are the buffs/debuffs and favor.
the perp cost really doesn't matter, because it isn't very consequential these days. And i'd gladly pay 2 more mp/tic for something better than Carbuncle

[Babekeke]

I anticipate a regain favor, any other ideas?

[Malamasala]

Would be nice with a pet that does AOE meditate or something. Considering we have plenty of jobs abilities and spells, but usually none of the good ones.

[Vortex]

This is just a hunch but i have this strange feeling caith sith's abitlies will have something to do with time..

[Babekeke]

This is just a hunch but i have this strange feeling caith sith's abitlies will have something to do with time..

Likely that they will be the same/similar to the abilities used by Cait Sith Ceithir as seen in the mission "Distorter of Time" (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cait_Sith_Ceithir)

[Vortex]

Never to sure, at least by that he is certainly light based (thank god, carby was getting lonely)

[Soundwave]

Likely that they will be the same/similar to the abilities used by Cait Sith Ceithir as seen in the mission "Distorter of Time" (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cait_Sith_Ceithir)

I agree we will see those abilities, the 2 hour I'm sure will be Atomos(As in when you have the cat out and Astra Flow....Atomos will come.) It only makes sense to also give the drained stats from the mob to the cat/party, so at least an avatar can benefit from it.


I anticipate a regain favor, any other ideas?

Indeed, maybe something like this?

Initial Increase: 1TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (<317 Skill) 2TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (317+ Skill) 3TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (382+ Skill) 4TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (477+ Skill) 5TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (542+ Skill) 6TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (607+ Skill) 7TP/Tick

[Karbuncle]

I agree we will see those abilities, the 2 hour I'm sure will be Atomos(As in when you have the cat out and Astra Flow....Atomos will come.) It only makes sense to also give the drained stats from the mob to the cat/party, so at least an avatar can benefit from it.



Indeed, maybe something like this?

Initial Increase: 1TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (<317 Skill) 2TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (317+ Skill) 3TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (382+ Skill) 4TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (477+ Skill) 5TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (542+ Skill) 6TP/Tick
Maximum Increase (607+ Skill) 7TP/Tick

Is it currently possible to get over 450~ or so Summoning magic? I don't even see it being possible to reach 607 by 99...

But even so, that much TP/Regain up theoretically 100% of the time is right into dreamland. Even SCH and COR's regain abilities are ridiculously weak.

Dunno what she's give us, But I'm not expecting anything lavish :X if we do get Regain It'd likely cap at ~3tp/tic

[Vortex]

Is it currently possible to get over 450~ or so Summoning magic? I don't even see it being possible to reach 607 by 99...

But even so, that much TP/Regain up theoretically 100% of the time is right into dreamland. Even SCH and COR's regain abilities are ridiculously weak.

Dunno what she's give us, But I'm not expecting anything lavish :X if we do get Regain It'd likely cap at ~3tp/tic

Lol even i dont think we would get 7 a tick regain. i highly doubt they will do that, they seem pretty stingy with "regain" effects that are ussualy between 1-5 but that was just something he made up. they did say these would be "dot" based avatars so i'm think caith will have very low delay in his attacks or something. i guess mnk type attacking?

[Karbuncle]

They said Cait would be a DoT Avatar?

Can you point me that :( i try to read all this SMN stuff but i missed it O.O!

If thats the case, I'm hoping for some h2h-type action (Thats not horribly gimped like almost every MNK mob in the entire game), either that or high attack/dagger speed. It hopefully will get Subtle Blow though... or the terrible masses will look down on it. (The same type of people who wouldn't know a SB set if it bit them in the A**)

[Soundwave]

Is it currently possible to get over 450~ or so Summoning magic? I don't even see it being possible to reach 607 by 99...

But even so, that much TP/Regain up theoretically 100% of the time is right into dreamland. Even SCH and COR's regain abilities are ridiculously weak.

Dunno what she's give us, But I'm not expecting anything lavish :X if we do get Regain It'd likely cap at ~3tp/tic

**Edit

Blah I lost my train of thought on this:p

[Babekeke]

I agree we will see those abilities, the 2 hour I'm sure will be Atomos(As in when you have the cat out and Astra Flow....Atomos will come.) It only makes sense to also give the drained stats from the mob to the cat/party, so at least an avatar can benefit from it.

I think that the level (?) Holy will be the 2 hour. Makes sense to make it impractical, since it relies on a dice roll. 1 in 6 chance to do really useful damage. Similar to Odin only having the chance to insta-kill regular mobs.

[Doppel]

maybe cait sith's 2hr will be it sommoning atmos, causing stats absorbed to go to cait sith making it the giant caith sith

[Soundwave]

maybe cait sith's 2hr will be it sommoning atmos, causing stats absorbed to go to cait sith making it the giant caith sith

That's what I said... minus the giant cat....and a few others in this thread to said that as well...

[Babekeke]

That's what I said... minus the giant cat....and a few others in this thread to said that as well...

I still don't see this happening. Atomos will be OUR 2 hour, not Cait Sith's ;p

[Soundwave]

I would rather be able to use level(?) holy as Caitsiths top BP when I want...opposed to a 2hour.

It just makes more sense that you can use Atomos not only to buff the party but buff you and your avatar as well.

The game is already coded to do that so I dunno why SE would change it the other way around.

[Moonbaq]

Atomos Should Be Replaced With Bahamut ^_^ Just saying

[Elvyn]

I anticipate a regain favor, any other ideas?

That would be truly awesome, but i'm guessing there gonna go with MDB maybe as we have seen Cait use her Shield a few times in WoTG or just a on completely far out idea maybe Enmity down as we know Cait usually likes to stay outta sight!

As for DD I personally hope her pattent "Paw Print Kick" is added for pure awsomness!

[Malamasala]

I'm guessing:

Cure potency favor (Because it would only help our healer/ourselves)
Delay reduction favor (Because melee will complain that you ruin their 5 hit builds)

After all, I only expect additions that we'll be told sucks by everyone and force us to avoid them.

[Babekeke]

I'm guessing:

Cure potency favor (Because it would only help our healer/ourselves)
Delay reduction favor (Because melee will complain that you ruin their 5 hit builds)

After all, I only expect additions that we'll be told sucks by everyone and force us to avoid them.

Yeah a cure potenty favour that still doesn't break the 50% cap that we can already hit... wouldn't surprise me.

[Karbuncle]

I remain hopeful, Thinking about Caitsith, I'm hoping her Favor doesn't suck... Regen is taken, refresh is too, asking for Regain might be going too far (even at 99, they're picky with this stat).

Cure Potency would not surprise me, Delay- would be awful... Wouldn't mind a haste aura, always use more JA haste... When not in an absolute zerg situation.

Still, up the air for me, I anticipate it eagerly

[Tannlore]

I remain hopeful, [...] asking for Regain might be going too far (even at 99, they're picky with this stat). [...]

Ah, but one can dream! :)

[Razushu]

I remain hopeful, Thinking about Caitsith, I'm hoping her Favor doesn't suck... Regen is taken, refresh is too, asking for Regain might be going too far (even at 99, they're picky with this stat).

Cure Potency would not surprise me, Delay- would be awful... Wouldn't mind a haste aura, always use more JA haste... When not in an absolute zerg situation.

Still, up the air for me, I anticipate it eagerly

A haste aura on an Avatar that isn't Garuda would be just cruel.

[Tannlore]

A haste aura on an Avatar that isn't Garuda would be just cruel.


True, but would you put is past them? I could see them doing it JUST to be cruel! lol

[Razushu]

True, but would you put is past them? I could see them doing it JUST to be cruel! lol

SE does like to troll I guess.

[Tannlore]

SE does like to troll I guess.

Camate, no ideas for you!!

[Razushu]

Camate, no ideas for you!!

Unless that idea is giving Garuda a haste favor instead of the useless evasion one.

[Tannlore]

Unless that idea is giving Garuda a haste favor instead of the useless evasion one.

.....

Camate: This idea IS for you! :D

[Karbuncle]

Would be nice if they re-worked a lot of favors to suck less.

Some are good, some are just "What the f**k", I'm looking at you Fenrir, titan, and Garuda.

Only reason i don't mention Leviathan is because well, Can't think of anything else Water could give.'

---------Ideas----------


Titan: Change it to PDT, not Defense. or heck, DT period. Have it increase to -10% at cap (perhaps higher?)

Garuda: Haste! Have it cap out around 10~15% (it would be JA haste)

Fenrir: Critical hit Damage - Cap out around ~+15%? Or it could be "Weaponskill Damage Bonus" of about ~10%~15%? Something unique.
... Maybe TP Bonus? Cap out around ~125?

[Korpg]

redoing the favors might actually make them useful.

But instead of redoing the favors, do a seperate stance where you can have favor up or a new ability that gives what they are saying above without any -perp cost or -att/MAB on the avatar (we don't really need - perp anymore, we can get 6 MP per tick on gear/Refresh now without favor).

[whmsyrup]

cait sith is super cute! I can't wait to see her prance around :3

I hope she uses her fists... err... paws for some abilities :D

[Malamasala]

Haste? More like delay reduction and then have all melee whine that their 5 hit builds are broken and you should never bring out cait Sith again with favors up.

[Soundwave]

cait sith is super cute! I can't wait to see her prance around :3

I hope she uses her fists... err... paws for some abilities :D

She does.:cool:

[Zemarin]

Fenrir: Critical hit Damage - Cap out around ~+15%? Or it could be "Weaponskill Damage Bonus" of about ~10%~15%? Something unique.
... Maybe TP Bonus? Cap out around ~125?

see that might actually make him usefull and that wat SE is against... You cant have a useful summon and a useful favor that crossing boundaries. Besides everyone knows fenrir attacks faster and hits harder...

[Covenant]

You Summoners make no sense sometimes. Give haste effect on an avatar that has hastaga(garuda). For all intent and purposes favors are "free" Bloodpacts. Evasion isn't useless. Since most players are geared for damage, evasion takes a back seat. Plenty of jobs can use evasion boost such a ninja, pup(tank), blu(tank), and THF.

If I had to name one thing that kills summoner or any players right now is the "petrified" thinking of players. 2 things they only want more damage and more haste. This keeps popping up in so many versionsif freaking sickening.

Fenrir offering mag crit down...this is not useless. Matched with diabolous magic shield..can save parties from all sorts of trouble. It's the combo use that really makes a lot of these bloodwards and favors shine. Titan(def favor) and diabolos(phalanx) makes a strong combo. As does diabolos and carby(shiny ruby).

Are many favors niche...yes. But, they all have a place in Vanadiel.

[Clou777]

Cait Sith was introduced in the cutscenes having a disembodied metallic voice, before having a name, so I assumed they were a form of automaton. (They were even numbered)

cait sith was an automaton, in FF7 anyway