More WS choices for WAR please.

[Korpg]

Can we have more WSs from all of our weapons except the RNG/COR exclusive ones please?

Like since WAR has all but one sword WS, can we finally have that last one?

or basically all of the others, including polearm and dagger?

[Thonuwan]

I can see this as a desire to say that this one job has all of the WS but, unless I'm not thinking of one right now, how many of those extra WS's will actually be used on a regular basis?

[Arcon]

I can see this as a desire to say that this one job has all of the WS but, unless I'm not thinking of one right now, how many of those extra WS's will actually be used on a regular basis?

This is nothing more than a troll, probably due to kingfury's old thread, just a few months late.

[hiko]

and give sam archery ws!

[Karbuncle]

If anyone were to get Swift Blade i'd imagine BLU would be first on the list.

[Korpg]

This is nothing more than a troll, probably due to kingfury's old thread, just a few months late.

Dead serious, if we are supposed masters of all weapons, why do we have limited weaponskills?

Like you have to be /NIN to use 3 of the dagger WSs and stuff like that.


I can see this as a desire to say that this one job has all of the WS but, unless I'm not thinking of one right now, how many of those extra WS's will actually be used on a regular basis?

To be honest, I'm thinking of blue procs in Abyssea.

[Leonlionheart]

Trolololololol

Seriously, no real war gives a damn about any ws other than ukko's fury.

[Korpg]

Trolololololol

Seriously, no real war gives a damn about any ws other than ukko's fury.

Not even for procs?

Like if you have to fight a hotly contested mob during slashing or piercing time and wish to proc blue on it?

That is all I'm saying, I hate having only 2 procs during piercing time.

[hiko]

yes just give war 100% red and blue procs, add a new JA that allow their WS to proc yellow too so war +whm can just duo everything and get all procs

[Leonlionheart]

Not even for procs?

Like if you have to fight a hotly contested mob during slashing or piercing time and wish to proc blue on it?

That is all I'm saying, I hate having only 2 procs during piercing time.

I understand what you're saying, but the only hotly contested blue proc mobs are turul, indrik, and empousa pretty much. Pantokrator and Rani too, I suppose. I've gotten so many people Loki's and Epona's if I never see another blue proc again I'll be happy.

Yeah, it's frustrating. However if WAR got more than it does, in terms of abyssea, there would be no need for any other jobs. It already dwarfs all other DD anyway

[Korpg]

Yeah, it's frustrating. However if WAR got more than it does, in terms of abyssea, there would be no need for any other jobs. It already dwarfs all other DD anyway

I guess that's true....never really thought of that.

[Leonlionheart]

:\ the only reason I can think of for bringing any other job than NIN WAR WHM THF is if you don't have them, or if you need yellow/blue. Even if you need yellow, most of the time THF will be enough (unless your going for 2~3x drop +2 items).

If you need blue, mnk.
If you need yellow, BLM.

Everything else is just...

Well we'll be leaving abyssea soon anyway.

[Korpg]

Thank you very much for your constructive post. I don't know what we would do without your input in the matter.

[Leonlionheart]

I think he needs a time out

[Araan]

I want war to have the same Great Sword Skill as DRK and have all the weaponskills that they currently lack

[Economizer]

WAR (and every other job ever) also should never get Hexa Strike in a million years. White Mage has another troubles with other jobs clamoring for White Mage's unique abilities.

[Karbuncle]

I don't see why another job getting Hexa strikes is going to hurt WHM, as it stands its a decent WS wasted on a class that has no use for it outside of toying around. Spread the love!

I feel if any job should get it it'd be PLD, At least PLD might get a use from it? assuming no Chant Du Cygne is involved, as its a rather powerful WS.

[Arcon]

I feel if any job should get it it'd be PLD, At least PLD might get a use from it? assuming no Chant Du Cygne is involved, as its a rather powerful WS.

I approve. Then I wouldn't have to waste 10min to go through all my procs multiple times to make sure they were clean only to confirm it's Hexa and have to warp and run back and waste half of the night in the process.

[Economizer]

I don't see why another job getting Hexa strikes is going to hurt WHM, as it stands its a decent WS wasted on a class that has no use for it outside of toying around.

Toying around? I take my Club mastery very seriously, thank you. If we lose this, what's next? Other jobs getting Mjollnir? No thanks. And Hexa Strike was never wasted on White Mage.

Anyways, Hexa Strike provides several things to White Mages that it wouldn't if it wasn't exclusive. First, it makes White Mages have something unique that will never be taken away. Second, every other job that can use it already has a way to deal good amounts of damage. Third, White Mage is supposed to be the master of the Club. Last, things like Hexa Strike, Mjollnir, and exclusivity on Club magian trials are all signals that White Mage is supposed to be able to do damage with a Club, even if the situation doesn't come up often in parties.

If the choice was between White Mage losing exclusivity or the WS no longer being a proc, I'd vote that it shouldn't be a proc anymore. That said, most groups in Abyssea have access to a White Mage. Why shouldn't the White Mage have to skill anything? Also, why should Monk be able to do all procs solo?

[Karbuncle]

Toying around? I take my Club mastery very seriously, thank you. If we lose this, what's next? Other jobs getting Mjollnir? No thanks. And Hexa Strike was never wasted on White Mage.

"Slippery slope" Argument? For a moment i almost swear you were typing "Gay marriage? Whats next? Beastiality" slippery slope arguments are stupid and unfounded rampant speculation, You know that Econ..

Outside of that i have no comments, WHM melee is a toy, and I am sorry if that offends you. Regardless of how you feel i think it would be beneficial to the game as a whole. Like i said, I think at least PLD should get it. PLD can have use for Club, and has access to some nice club WS too.

and as far as WHM and Mjollnir etc go, SMN is on Claustrum, and has access to no Exclusive/special Staff WS, Can't explain that!

[Economizer]

"Slippery slope" Argument? For a moment i almost swear you were typing "Gay marriage? Whats next? Beastiality" slippery slope arguments are stupid and unfounded rampant speculation, You know that Econ..

I know it is a slipper slope argument. That said, SE gave Scholar -na spells and Raise/Reraise II and ever since they've been trying to get Haste and Cure V. :p

Also, if you are gonna point out a fallacy, don't make one in the same statement you are pointing one out. :p


Outside of that i have no comments, WHM melee is a toy

Pretty powerful toy. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/42449-WHM-Melee-random-crap?p=3499621&viewfull=1#post3499621)


and as far as WHM and Mjollnir etc go, SMN is on Claustrum, and has access to no Exclusive/special Staff WS, Can't explain that!

Staff jobs currently have to sub a more melee oriented class to get access. Explained.

[Karbuncle]

I know it is a slipper slope argument. That said, SE gave Scholar -na spells and Raise/Reraise II and ever since they've been trying to get Haste and Cure V. :p

Also, if you are gonna point out a fallacy, don't make one in the same statement you are pointing one out. :p

Explain?!


Pretty powerful toy. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/42449-WHM-Melee-random-crap?p=3499621&viewfull=1#post3499621)

Still a toy. I know its pretty powerful toy, But WHM is not a DD, It can do as well enough for sure (I dont wanna invoke the wrath of those WHM melee, they scare me). I just see no harm in giving Hexa to PLD. Its not like that would suddenly be the nail in the coffin to WHM >_>

And also, I'm pretty sure the person you're posting has Mjollnir. If we're comparing relic DD..


Staff jobs currently have to sub a more melee oriented class to get access. Explained.

Then why can't i sub WHM and get hexa hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Also way to miss the joke!

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bill-oreilly-you-cant-explain-that

[Economizer]

Then why can't i sub WHM and get hexa hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Some things just can be subbed, and some things should be exclusive to certain classes. Why can't a Paladin sub White Mage for Afflatus Misery (I condone this) when it would be incredibly useful? Why doesn't Red Mage get Endark and Enlight? Why doesn't X get Y?

White Mage is supposed to be the master of the Club. In any class based game, developers will forgo easy balance decisions and traditional roles to make certain classes have an image. Look and feel are as important as balance. When Paladin used to use a Staff instead of the Sword and Shield that is the main image of a Paladin, SE had to buff Shield.

[Karbuncle]

Some things just can be subbed, and some things should be exclusive to certain classes. Why can't a Paladin sub White Mage for Afflatus Misery (I condone this) when it would be incredibly useful? Why doesn't Red Mage get Endark and Enlight? Why doesn't X get Y?

White Mage is supposed to be the master of the Club. In any class based game, developers will forgo easy balance decisions and traditional roles to make certain classes have an image. Look and feel are as important as balance. When Paladin used to use a Staff instead of the Sword and Shield that is the main image of a Paladin, SE had to buff Shield.

If WHM are suppose to be master of Clubs why do PLDs have higher club skill >_>?

FYI you are incredibly too serious about this. You seem to be missing obvious trickery!

[Economizer]

If WHM are suppose to be master of Clubs why do PLDs have higher club skill >_>?

FYI you are incredibly too serious about this. You seem to be missing obvious trickery!

Paladin does not have a higher club skill then White Mage, and if it did, White Mages would be incredibly touchy about it and pretend it didn't.

[Karbuncle]

ehehehe bet you'd think i wouldn't see that joke huh!

Well i did. Can't trick me!

[Leonlionheart]

Paladin does not have a higher club skill then White Mage, and if it did, White Mages would be incredibly touchy about it and pretend it didn't.

BST gets A+ in axe, WAR gets A-, we get the same WS's.

WHM gets B+ in club, PLD gets A-. See: http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Club

WHM gets Hexa Strike, PLD gets useless trash, other than True Strike, which can occasionally spike to ~3k with Crit Dmg+ atma.

[Mirage]

BST gets A+ in axe, WAR gets A-, we get the same WS's.

WHM gets B+ in club, PLD gets A-. See: http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Club


Woosh


1234

[Economizer]

WHM gets Hexa Strike, PLD gets useless trash, other than True Strike, which can occasionally spike to ~3k with Crit Dmg+ atma.

SE wants Paladin to use a sword, and White Mage to use a club. If you argue that Paladin would already use a sword, then they do not need a buff to another weapon, as they are already powerful enough.

Look and feel is as important as balance. SE wanted Paladin to use a sword and a shield. SE wanted White Mage to use clubs. If Paladin having a slightly better combat skill rank in club is disrupting this look and feel, perhaps that should be addressed, rather then give away one the the unique features of White Mage to another class.

How would Paladin feel if another job was a better tank then it in 90% of situations? Oh right. We know how that is. Let's not to that to a function of another class, no matter how dismissive people are of that function.

[Leonlionheart]

SE wants Paladin to use a sword, and White Mage to use a club. If you argue that Paladin would already use a sword, then they do not need a buff to another weapon, as they are already powerful enough.

Look and feel is as important as balance. SE wanted Paladin to use a sword and a shield. SE wanted White Mage to use clubs. If Paladin having a slightly better combat skill rank in club is disrupting this look and feel, perhaps that should be addressed, rather then give away one the the unique features of White Mage to another class.

How would Paladin feel if another job was a better tank then it in 90% of situations? Oh right. We know how that is. Let's not to that to a function of another class, no matter how dismissive people are of that function.

This is all completely subjective, and has nothing to do with WHM or PLD.

I wanted WAR to use a GA in 2004, but no one would invite a WAR w/ a GA because WAR w/ Dual Wield Axes was simply better. People may want RNG to use a Crossbow, but SE hasn't even made a relevant crossbow since lvl 75.

WHM is a healer, but gets an amazing WS. PLD is a tank, and is stuck with CDC or go home, making it harder and harder to justify using a PLD as a tank in comparison to jobs that can get the job done and twice as fast.

[kingfury]

Trolololololol

Seriously, no real war gives a damn about any ws other than ukko's fury.
-----------------
^^ Well you know I give a damn about'em Leon!

I bet I could post damage numbers on every other hard hitting weapon a WAR can wield that comes within a few hundread or at the most maybe a thousand of what Ukko's can do outside Abyssea. I could probably post great moderate damage on Hand-to-hand as well. That's Sword, Staff(already posted this video), Scythe, Polearm, Dagger, Club, Axe, Great Sword, and even toss in some Archery on /RNG.

Call it a challenge if you like, but I think it's necessary to show and prove what I've been saying all this time about the potential of WARs sub weapons is true. I'm not trying to disprove one bit that Great Axe isn't the Optimal choice for dealing damage on WAR, but only trying to validate what most don't seem to understand about our other weapons. They're not meant to be "better" than our main weapon since that wouldn't make sense at all, but rather, they're testaments of our versatility and expertise with other weapons in the game.

A WAR by design can, should they wish to do so, select any of the weapons in their arsenal and dish out moderate to high damage numbers consistently. The "choice" to do so is there, which is unique in that no other job in the game can exercise the same freedoms. I'm more excited about the "reworking" of all weaponskills game-wide than I am about new weaponskills to be honest lol. Ukko's is a beast of a WS and it will most likely remain so for a while to come, so with it's damage safe where it is, that leaves the window open to experiment with other weapons. I just find it very entertaining to switch it up sometimes to see how far I can push my limits. Sadly, few WARs actually believe the same, which is fine of course, but they're missing out on a large part of what the DEVs designed WAR to excel at and that just means they're only partly playing the job in regards to it's potential.

This isn't a means to argue anything, so I'll just start gathering videos over time to post. All damage will be outside Abyssea numbers. Since I have my Staff video done, I'll post that 1st, but the others will follow soon.

• Staff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eTdragK4sU)
• Sword
• Great Sword
• Polearm
• Club
• Scythe
• Dagger
• Archery
• Hand-to-Hand

[Babekeke]

• Staff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eTdragK4sU)

All I see from this video is that on a mob 11-14 mobs below your level, using zerk, aggressor, warcry and warriors charge, a 300%tp full swing does reasonable damage. Perhaps if you did some at 100%tp, and some without full buffs... and don't forget to include a video of Ukko's Fury on the same mobs, and with/without all the buffs too.

[kingfury]

Those Manticores are tough skined, and make great test dummies even for Ukko's at our lvl 90. They have enough HP that you can't really One Shot them at the start of the battle even using Ukko's Fury (though you can get really close), so they make great targets even though they are a few lvls below 90. The point is, the damage done on these targets buffed or not (which by the way based on the WS being used is a secondary thought to the point I'm trying to make), show the potential our sub weapons hold once used the right way.

Like Atonement, you know some WS's aren't really designed to be spammed at 100 TP for the best results, but rather charged and then released to do the most damage. Which isn't all that bad for a WAR that knows how to stack +TP gain gear and rocket to 300 TP in a few seconds. Again, the challenge at hand with these vids are to show great dmg numbers with a WARs "Sub Weapons" that everyone says we shouldn't care about other than for "triggering in Abyssea". I think everyone already knows and understands the potential of a Ukon and the damage it can shelve out, and I'm not arguing that potential one bit, so there's not really a need for a comparison video since just about any WAR with a Ukon can post their monster GA damage numbers.

In the end, I just want to open the eyes of those that truly believe WAR shouldn't care about their Sub Weapon choices and test and really build around their potentials. The WAR job is a brilliant design in that it has a wonderfully rewarding system in terms of a player pushing the limits of all the things available to the job. I have GS and Sword coming up next.

[Lordscyon]

Instead of that. Don't get me wrong but it be better too just say hey give WAR dual wield like dnc,thf,NIN ^^

[Gokku]

why give me a good reason war needs dual wield i mean a single instance in were dual wielding anything would come clost to topping Ukon / Ukko's. you cant its mathematically impossible why? because the dmg difference is way to massive.

[Squeejee]

If WHM are suppose to be master of Clubs why do PLDs have higher club skill >_>?

Why does DRK have higher Elemental Magic skill than RDM? DRK Should get Tier V spells!1

[TRiPP]

Oh Eco, finally nice to meet someone who thinks that giving another job something from White Mage is going to toss them off their throne. Feel free to leave your Refresh (and light arts.) at the door, because you know. That's Red Mage, and Scholar the same jobs your job taboos from getting anything from. ;x Just sayin'.

As for Warrior, why not? Let's just give them a JA that clearly gives them every WS in the game without needing the weapon. I'm serious, cause that'll go well with all the other jobs as well, right? Well, I'll do you one better then!
SE, I want Warrior to get every single JA whether relevant to the job or not, including the JTs. To top it off, I also want it to have a job ability that dispenses tradeable brews that work in and outside of Abyssea. Oh and the JA, feel free to add in all the 2hrs in the game as well. I mean mobs in some cases can have three jobs at once. Why can't warrior? I mean we're lacking in every compartment right? Our damage is piss poor, our defense is piss poor, our HP is piss poor. Oh wait.
Long story short. You start off by asking one thing, where does it stop?
More WSes and native to Katana and Great Katana. (From another thread.)

To top it all off, to the white mage who thinks giving up one thing would completely destroy the job.
White mage isn't as fragile as it looks. I'm trying to be civil however, I don't know how many times I've face palmed whilst reading this thread.

Don't be such a melodramatic martyr, it doesn't suit you. You sound intelligent however, you're doing it wrong.
Again, if you feel so strongly about it, don't sub Red Mage nor Scholar.

With that I think Paladin should get Hexa Strike, Cure V AND Cure VI AND Cure VII and White Mage shouldn't get Cure VII. Why? Because Paladin might get knocked off it's tanking throne.

(Not hard at all to derail a thread, and not hard at all to make a job look like it's on it's last breath, now is it?)

However, to end this post on a serious note, I'd believe that if any job were to get Swift Blade it would be Blue Mage. (Unfortunately.) In because that's it's main weapon. In because Warrior can already wield more then enough weapons, and make up for the lack of WSes via being able to use said weapons. (It's unfortunately how it is in this game, you give up something to be able to do something else.) Berserk? Give up defense for attack, Defender? The opposite, aggressor? Evasion down for accuracy up. Counterstance? Lowers defence down to double digits and increases countering. Get where I'm going with this? So simply just because you don't have a certain thing, it's because it's being made up in another aspect. In Warrior's account, being versatile in multiple weapons, but not being able to fully utilize them as the main job would.