Mage melee gear

[Phafi]

Skimmed through briefly and didn't see a generalized topic for melee mages. I think that mage jobs should get some more melee for the case that they do have a relic or something, or maybe just want a change of pace. BLM SCH and SMN all have their mythic staves, and there's the Hvergelmir and Claustrum, but they can't even cap haste with the best possible haste equipment, even using the Tatsumaki Sitagoromo to have Haste+3% (excluding any FOV, evolith and synergy augments). Are mages going to get more melee friendly equipment in the future?

Thoughts, additions?

[Karbuncle]

I Think there should be high level "Melee Mage" gear set. Nothing more than a side-equipment. A lot of things at 91~99 are going to be sidegrades, So i see no harm in releasing a set exclusively for the Melee-Mage. You'll have to humor my crappy making up stuff...

Mystic's Hat
DEF:30 HP+50 STR+6 DEX+6
Double Attack +2%
Haste +5%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
lv.96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH

Mystic's Tabard
DEF:58 STR+9 DEX+9
Triple Attack +2%
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH

Mystic's Gloves
DEF:31 HP+50 Accuracy+15 Attack +15
Increases Critical hit Damage
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH

Mystic's Slacks
DEF:51 HP+75 DEX+10
Accuracy +10 Attack+10
Haste+4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH

Mystic's Sabbots
DEF:31 STR+8 MND+8
Critical hit Rate +4%
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH

*Set Bonus: Damage Taken -4% for 2 pieces, +2 for each after (total -10%)
*This set would give 21% Haste, Only needing Goading Belt to cap 26%
*"Increases Critical hit Damage" on hands is +10%, same as WAR+2 Feet.

Yes i'm aware its a powerful set, but mages are inherently weak, so even with armor like this none of the jobs listed would become so powerful its broken :D.

oh and

Mystic's Strap
TP Bonus
Triple Attack +1%
Lv.96 WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH

(TP Bonus is +50)

Yes, I was bored.

[Swords]

May as well add RDM too that listing as well since the nay sayers say RDM can't remotely keep up with DD's. XD

[Raksha]

There's a melee RDM thread, and a melee SMN thread. Neither of which is highly regarded around these parts. All I have to say is good luck with this thread.

Semi on-topic: No.

[Aurara]

May as well add RDM too that listing as well since the nay sayers say RDM can't remotely keep up with DD's. XD

Even with this gear they wouldn't come close.

[Urthdigger]

I don't think that melee mages should be capable of matching the damage output of a "real" DD. That would be stupid. Mages get all those utility spells like buffs, debuffs, and nukes galore. If they could do equal melee damage to those jobs that pretty much only do melee damage, and be able to do all their normal activities too, that'd be overpowered. So long as they can do enough damage to justify TP fed, and any risk of AoE, I think they're fine.

[Karbuncle]

May as well add RDM too that listing as well since the nay sayers say RDM can't remotely keep up with DD's. XD

I thought about RDM, Dunno why i ultimately left it out. i'll fix that! Its for-shits-and-giggles armor anywho.


I don't think that melee mages should be capable of matching the damage output of a "real" DD. That would be stupid. Mages get all those utility spells like buffs, debuffs, and nukes galore. If they could do equal melee damage to those jobs that pretty much only do melee damage, and be able to do all their normal activities too, that'd be overpowered. So long as they can do enough damage to justify TP fed, and any risk of AoE, I think they're fine.

I personally agree making Mages as strong as Melee's in the Physical department would be rather stupid.

however, If you're implying thats what this would do, I don't think we're playing the same game if you think a few pieces of Melee gear is going to make a Mage do as much damage as a good DD.

Even the armor i described above, Melee-Mage would still be gimp. This set (and i hope what the OP was describing!) would be nothing more than solo armor, or armor for messin' around. Like a small side-grade set most people wouldn't carry, but some would for fun.

I never expect Melee-mage type of gameplay to thrive in any situation, but it would be nice to have some armor specifically designed for a Melee-mage, So long as it wasn't the only thing released (Because those who dont want it might be upset). This way we could have a fun toy, and the normal people could have their stuff too.

[Urthdigger]

This was more to the person just above me saying "Even with this gear, mages wouldn't come close." And I was just saying they're not supposed to, because that would be stupid.

[Karbuncle]

This was more to the person just above me saying "Even with this gear, mages wouldn't come close." And I was just saying they're not supposed to, because that would be stupid.

Then i agree :D!

[Inafking]

I think it would be nice to let mages mele with stuff better for restoring mp than aspir samba / spirit taker.

[Urthdigger]

Yes, one thing I've considered that may make melee mage more useful is to increase the usefulness of energy steal/energy drain, and moonlight/starlight. As it stands, mages don't get a useful MP restoring WS until quite late (66 for SMN and BLM, 70 for WHM and SCH), and by then it's well ingrained that mages are not meant to melee. On top of that, all of the WS would have to be useful enough that a mage wouldn't overly hurt their party by meleeing instead of resting. Otherwise, even with good melee gear they might be discouraged from meleeing simply because doing so means they cannot do their main role effectively.

[Karbuncle]

Empyrean Staff WS recovers large portions of MP

WHM-Mythic does so as well.

Both are quite useful :o

[Urthdigger]

Both of those are high end, high level staves. By then, a mage has been backlining for his entire career, and there is little incentive to start doing it now, especially with low skill. I'd rather mages be able to learn to do so early on, by having a reason to do so early on.

[Karbuncle]

I think they did underpower the MP recover WS's early on. a boost to those would be nice.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Well, those weaponskills do rely on you fighting a mob that has MP in the first place, the later ones (Boon and Myrkyr) don't, Spiritaker being able to miss despite being a seemingly magical Weaponskill is also kinda wtf.

[Inafking]

Empyrean Staff WS recovers large portions of MP

WHM-Mythic does so as well.

Both are quite useful :o

Okie dokey, then hand them out to everyone without haveing to go through the nightmare of trying to get them.

[Malamasala]

There's a melee RDM thread, and a melee SMN thread. Neither of which is highly regarded around these parts. All I have to say is good luck with this thread.

Semi on-topic: No.

I think the fact that they exist speak enough for melee mage armors. Makes more sense to add this, than to add something nobody is requesting.

[Bubeeky]

there may not be hundreds of threads about the subject, but there are still plenty of melee mages out there, enough to justify SE creating more sets of melee oriented mage gear at a higher level...as a melee mage myself, most of the gear that I have to use is at most lvl 75, and the numbers on the buffs it gives reflect that :(

[Karbuncle]

Okie dokey, then hand them out to everyone without haveing to go through the nightmare of trying to get them.

Empyrean Staff is rather Easy to get, you could probably make it in a week including the NM trials up to it. It takes a little dedication however.

WHM mythic WS is accessible to anyone who can take the time to complete Nyzul Isle, so its available to all WHM's!

Obtaining neither is really nightmarish at level 90... Nyzul maybe if you have no friends, because finding people for it is hard, but the Empyrean staff is simple, if only because you'll never have competition.

Hell you could likely find Sedna groups doing Zone win you could leech Tusks off of.

Don't even recall what this was a response too >_>

[Kristal]

Mystic's Hat
DEF:30 HP+50 STR+6 DEX+6
Double Attack +2%
Haste +5%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
lv.96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/PUP/SCH

Mystic's Tabard
DEF:58 STR+9 DEX+9
Triple Attack +2%
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/PUP/SCH

Mystic's Gloves
DEF:31 HP+50 Accuracy+15 Attack +15
Increases Critical hit Damage
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/PUP/SCH

Mystic's Slacks
DEF:51 HP+75 DEX+10
Accuracy +10 Attack+10
Haste+4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/PUP/SCH

Mystic's Sabbots
DEF:31 STR+8 MND+8
Critical hit Rate +4%
Haste +4%
Set: Reduces Damage Taken
Lv. 96 WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/PUP/SCH

*Set Bonus: Damage Taken -4% for 2 pieces, +2 for each after (total -10%)
*This set would give 21% Haste, Only needing Goading Belt to cap 26%
*"Increases Critical hit Damage" on hands is +10%, same as WAR+2 Feet.



Fixed job list.

[Karbuncle]

I thought PUP empyrean was boss enough :P

But considering... past Armor sets, its hilariously accurate :D!

[CapriciousOne]

Personally I wish they just stripped everything down to nothingness and let us decide how we want to develop our own characters because as a RDM I there crap load of spells I rarely use at this point or other job traits and abilities I feel would better suit my playing style. For instance I would love to get rid of that Tranquil Heart bs for RDM give that crap to a WHM.

In any case I disagree with most people about damage out put of melee mages for the simple fact that magic damage can be added in between melee rounds if lower tiers of magic is used that cast quickly. Even still without that magic factor the real issue isnt physical damage dealt by the weapon for say a RDM or BLU but rather the real issue is the 50% bonus accuracy given to two handed weapons which is complete bs. Obviously reality is not SE thing it seems because it is far easy to avoid a 2 handed weapon because of it slow draw and weight than it is to avoid a 1h weapon that is generally lighter and shorter. Plus it is easier to telegraph what direction a 2handed weapon is about to swing because once it momentum is started it is harder to change it, but what do I know. In any case the average 1h weapon swings in under 4 seconds while the average 2 haded weapons swings at just under 7 seconds for staves/polearms and under 7 seconds for all others if any of teh Delay formulas I've seen is correct. The base accuracy is the only real difference in damage output when you crunch the numbers but whatever. To each his own not here to convice anybody of anything(because I know I'm right) but seriously other than RDM and BLU i really dont see the need for any real changes since most the stave weapons if anybody bothers to melee with it does crappy damage anyway at leat untill higher levels where stuff may do multi-hits. Still if a mage has the guts to trade some blows let them I say since most are more self sufficient and dont need heals from outsiders and the more damge being dealt equal faster kills as long as the associated skill is level up which directly affects accuracy which is often the problem from what i've seen. Anyway to me a "DD" is anybody with the guts and a weapon sticking it to a mob PERIOD. Sure there are jobs that better at it than others but why anybody wouldn't want additional damage to a mobs still baffles me to this day about this game.

If it was up to me I would just strip down all jobs to the basic racial stats and let the players level up an learn whatever abilities, traits, weaponskills, etc they felt useful for their playing style instead of bs cookie cutter garbage we have. I would even take some of that freedom and apply it to crafting so that one could make better armor THEMSELVES instead of relying on the USELESS developers to "GRANT OUR WISHES" all the time. For example, I really have no use for stuff like Tranquil Heart at all since I rarely heal unless my hp is below 50 percent or near the mobs maximum damage dealt by it strongest move but then again I'm RDM I can get away with that so :-p

[Feliciaa]

Play blue mage. Just solved all the really odd melee mage request.

[Karbuncle]

Play blue mage. Just solved all the really odd melee mage request.

I understand you may not appreciate or understand the ideas and thoughts others have regarding this thread, far-fetched or no, But if all you can think of to say is something negative i kindly ask you to reconsider voicing it here, as it is unnecessary and an unproductive area of discussion.

And i do apologize if your post was meant sincerely, however it came off sarcastic or mocking to me.

Thank you!

[Feliciaa]

It's a serious post. As it seems like a lot of mages here are starting to think melee skills would be the best way to improve their job instead of coming up with ideas to improve their magic talents.

[Karbuncle]

It's a serious post. As it seems like a lot of mages here are starting to think melee skills would be the best way to improve their job instead of coming up with ideas to improve their magic talents.

I do believe some people think Melee is a solution to a mage problem, and thats problematic, i agree!

However i do think a "shits and giggles" kind of Melee-Mage armor would be fun... If only for entertainment value. I mean, Fun in a video game, Far-fetched these days :P but it could happen :)

[Alderin]

Haste on that suggested set is too high - even for a DD. (Not going back now but I think I calculated 21% in my head?)

Full NIN AF3 +2 - 17%
Full MNK AF3 +2 - 17%
Full WAR AF3 +2 - 12%

Get my drift? 21% haste is far too high for a full set if you aren't including belts etc. Even for the very haste-dependent jobs (like NIN, MNK, THF) etc. Not to mention half of the mages can cast haste on themselves.

I encourage a WHM to get in and melee on some mobs to help proc etc (and to be in there for curaga / bar's / esuna etc). However giving them more haste then a specialist DD or Tank is a little bit over the top..

[Karbuncle]

Well those were all very spitballed ideas =.=a not set in stone. However, when you consider a set like...

Zelus Tiara, THF+2 Body, Dusk+1 Hands, THF+2 Legs, and Ballerines which give a total of 26% haste, its not that far fetched :X

Or say, Zelus/Timarli Body/Timarli Hands/WAR+2 legs/WAR+2 feet giving 26% haste as well.

I was thinking of a set that a Mage could realistically cap haste on though, Even then, with 40% Haste (Capped Gear haste + spell), i don't see it breaking a SMN, or a BLM, to the point of being absurd.

I could be wrong :)

[Alderin]

Oh don't get me wrong, I understand that it was a throw in idea. Was just pointing it out.

Of course with substitutes, a mage could cap haste - however just pointing out that a full haste set for a mage at 21% is quite high - almost unrealistically high.

THF can cap haste quite easily with af3+2, ocelot gloves & twilight belt.
NIN can cap with a similar setup. etc etc.

No, it won't make SMN or BLM out-damage WAR, NIN, THF etc - and yes improving haste gear for mages would be a step in the right direction. However DD jobs should be able to reach DD-type caps (Haste, attack, fSTR, fDEX etc etc) much easier then a mage simply due to their job descriptions.

There are some decent pieces out there. The fact Zelus is available to all jobs is one example. Another is high base damage weapons (like hammers for WHM, as opposed to wands etc). Probably less-so as the levels get higher and SE is learning how to make good gear, however the odd piece is available.

In saying all this, I don't disagree with this post. Just adding in my 2 cents worth.

[Karbuncle]

I understand Now :O!

[Bubeeky]

Just throwin' my two cents in here too...currently, a whm using no accessories can get 22% haste (blessed +1 hands/feet/legs, goliard saio, walahra turban) add a swift belt or something in there and I believe that's past the cap (correct me if that's incorrect :)) having said that, the proposed gear isn't too far fetched :)

[Economizer]

White Mage can currently get 25% haste (1% away from ensuring cap) without any belts involved, or 26% if weapon selection is something you can ignore (although if capping haste over all else except a belt is important, /DRG would like to have a word with you).

I definitely think a melee mage set would be very nice, and I don't see what would be wrong with giving Red Mage (enspells, Sword/Dagger focus), White Mage (every job in this game can do damage) or Summoner (skillchaining off pets should be emphasized) more melee tools.

Also, I noticed the jobs you listed, WHM/RDM/BLM/SMN/SCH are missing two other jobs usually included in mage gear lists, BRD and PUP. You've given an explanation for PUP, so what's your reasoning for BRD?

[Karbuncle]

BRD already having access to loads of DD gear :X

Byakko's Haidate, Dusk/+1 gear, stuff like that BRD is on. BRD even has things like Atheling Mantle. They're pretty well covered in DD Armor.

(Then again RDM is on Dusk and a lot of DD Gear?)

But hey, they could be added XD

[Economizer]

That's sortof what I figured you'd say. Red Mage is also on the Atheling Mantle.

You should read the post in the White Mage forums about the Hardlight Set if you haven't already. It was an entertaining enough read that I finally signed up for this forum in the first place.

[Malamasala]

Not to sound like a broken record, but SMN is the job most in need of special melee gear. It isn't that hard to equip whatever melee gear is available on RDM or WHM and such, since you lose nothing. On SMN on the other hand you'll lose perpetuation reduction.

Unless of course, you make a really smart cheat macro to swap in -perp gear every 3 seconds on the tick of MP drain.

[Razushu]

Not to sound like a broken record, but SMN is the job most in need of special melee gear. It isn't that hard to equip whatever melee gear is available on RDM or WHM and such, since you lose nothing. On SMN on the other hand you'll lose perpetuation reduction.

Unless of course, you make a really smart cheat macro to swap in -perp gear every 3 seconds on the tick of MP drain.

Every mage wanting to play the melee loses the ability to fulltime more beneficial gear, SMN loses it's prep/refresh set, but thats not special by any means. BLM, SCH, WHM, and RDM lose out on their refresh gear if the want to equip melee gear these jobs can equip 6~7 refresh in gear.

[Sureal]

long answer, level a, gasp, real mele job

short answer, no

[Karbuncle]

long answer, level a, gasp, real mele job

short answer, no

I understand you may not like the idea of such things, But i ask you to Please refrain from unproductive comments. Your opinion is lovely but simply saying "no" and telling us to level Melee jobs is not productive and is Rude, which in itself is against the rules of this website.

Thank you for understanding Sur.

[Sureal]

im sorry, but calling my opinion on your wanting to turn a job into something it isnt is rude, this game is built on balance (i know there is unbalance in some jobs, but that is being worked on), but for you to want to turn a whm into a mele job is very unbalanced, i know you may not like it, but it is what it is, if you want to mele, then lvl a mele job, if you want to mage it up then lvl a mage job, if you start giving mages mele skills, abilities and gear then you start to pigeon hole the game and things will start to go back to the way it used to be of having a set job setup for parties, and if you dont fit into that set you might as well log off

balance is the name of the game, if you dont like it, dont play, but making mages more mele like starts a slippery slope of unbalanced gameplay


is that more productive? is that more within the rules?

[Karbuncle]

im sorry, but calling my opinion on your wanting to turn a job into something it isnt is
rude,

Of course its not. The way you said it was rude. Clearly you can see that. The "Gasp" part and the sarcasm made is what made it rude. Not the part of voicing your opinion.


this game is built on balance (i know there is unbalance in some jobs, but that is being worked on), but for you to want to turn a whm into a mele job is very unbalanced

If you had taken even the slightest bit of effort to read the thread, you would clearly and without fail see I've mentioned multiple times this armor would be expressely for fun, and not server as a bridge to make Mages melee. However, My educated guess is you read the thread title, and decided to make a response because of it.

Otherwise you could not possibly have gotten such a misconception from me.


i know you may not like it, but it is what it is, if you want to mele, then lvl a mele job, if you want to mage it up then lvl a mage job

I have 13 jobs at level 90, a slew of DD, Support, and Healing. I know all well how to use the job change command. this was not the point of this thread, however. it was never about making Mages into pure melee.


if you start giving mages mele skills

No ones asking to improve Mage's melee skills (I.E Staff skill, etc) in this thread.


abilities

No one is asking for new abilities here either (Well, Not me, I can't say for certain every other persons opinion)


and gear

A lot of those jobs already have melee gear. WHM has the Blessed set, which is oozing with haste. theres Zelus tiara, Goliard Saio, some of Nashira gear for certain jobs... Obvious none of those were designed with melee in mind but they all offer the most important melee stat, Haste. Then theres Add-on Gear which can be specialized for melee (most of its useless now anyway)


then you start to pigeon hole the game and things will start to go back to the way it used to be of having a set job setup for parties, and if you dont fit into that set you might as well log off

? I understand most of your concerns up to this point, But how is a set level 95+ Armor designed for side-activities or for mages to, forgive my words, "Dick around in" going to effect party set ups at any level in any way?

This is your only point that alludes me.


balance is the name of the game, if you dont like it, dont play, but making mages more mele like starts a slippery slope of unbalanced gameplay

My my my, My good Sureal, I explained this above but i will reiterate. We do not ask for Adjustments to make mages more melee, This idea, or at least, my idea on page 1, Was simply to give mages a set of "Melee" armor, 1 simple set of melee gear, strong enough to have some fun with, but not nearly potent enough to give Mages some magical Melee slot in a party.

It would be for all intents and purpose, a macro armor people might use when say, Building pearl light with friends, or doing old-dynamis content for lulz.


is that more productive? is that more within the rules?

slightly this one particular comment right here makes it sound incredibly sarcastic and insincere.

Edit: And this is from literally my Second (or third?) Post on the very first page of this thread:


I personally agree making Mages as strong as Melee's in the Physical department would be rather stupid.

however, If you're implying thats what this would do, I don't think we're playing the same game if you think a few pieces of Melee gear is going to make a Mage do as much damage as a good DD.

Even the armor i described above, Melee-Mage would still be gimp. This set (and i hope what the OP was describing!) would be nothing more than solo armor, or armor for messin' around. Like a small side-grade set most people wouldn't carry, but some would for fun.

Edit2: And this number from Page 3


I do believe some people think Melee is a solution to a mage problem, and thats problematic, i agree!

However i do think a "shits and giggles" kind of Melee-Mage armor would be fun... If only for entertainment value. I mean, Fun in a video game, Far-fetched these days :P but it could happen

Also my own words. So as you can see, I agree Melee is not the solution to mage, and making mages into melee is not the solution, My intent with this armor was simply as stated above, a side-grade "Shits and giggles" armor set for solo play or messing around with friends. Since SE already expressed they wanted armor from 91-99 to be more or less macro/side-grades to Empyrean, i figured time spent making a set like this could go a long way into making a few people happy for a short time.

So long as it didn't adversely effect their over all production schedule.

So for the most part i agree with what you're saying, however its your methods i disagree with. Clearly you can see that now though?

[Economizer]

A lot of those jobs already have melee gear. WHM has the Blessed set, which is oozing with haste. theres Zelus tiara, Goliard Saio, some of Nashira gear for certain jobs... Obvious none of those were designed with melee in mind but they all offer the most important melee stat, Haste. Then theres Add-on Gear which can be specialized for melee (most of its useless now anyway)

White Mage is also the sole job on the Magian clubs, there were the pirate cudgels, Auspice having that buff (pre-nerf it was even more amazing), and of course, Hexa Strike. Red Mage has enspells, Composure (accuracy buff in addition to obvious melee boosts), will get Temper and Gain-STR, has decent Sword and Dagger melee skills, and is on gear like the Atheling Mantle. Summoner's stats in general are far greater then they have to be, considering that they are just about useless for pets (to my knowledge), Summoner gets the same rank in Staff as MNK or WAR do, and unlike other spell-casters, doesn't cast spells that interrupt melee cycles all the time.

Granted, for all except the best geared of these, you won't be matching standard melee jobs, but for people to come into a thread about giving mage jobs melee gear is pretty insulting, especially when they come in here telling us about how we shouldn't be pigeonholing jobs. If a no defense damage dealer can solo something that wasn't meant to be killed solo, why can't other jobs?

This game is definitely played differently against super hard foes, so why can't it be played differently for the majority of stuff?

[Asymptotic]

BRD tends to be on things with WHM/SMN.

[Limecat]

I was always disappointed that WHM can't use Corselet and Corselet +1. They're not even super-heavy armor, just really fancy leather stuff!

[Economizer]

It would be interesting if White Mage was on the more defensive armors (by more defensive, I mean non-attack related) that Paladin is on... after all, White Mage is on Holy/Divine Breastplate, which is super heavy armor.

Limecat, what gear is the Mithra in your sig picture wearing?

[Karbuncle]

Those legs are made of Morion Worm skin.

I remember seeing that picture a long time ago. As for the body i think its Nobles.

[Limecat]

Yeah, the person who drew those comics/pictures is a friend of mine. One day she was lamenting how hard it was to finish her Morrigan's Slops, so I said SE should make a sort of -1 version that was easier to get and made from the skins of Morion Worms since the tathlums have +INT. And the mouth feelers had to stay on to give the pants tassels.

[Economizer]

And the mouth feelers had to stay on to give the pants tassels.

I didn't notice those until you said that.

So I presume the club is something generic?

[Limecat]

I didn't notice those until you said that.

So I presume the club is something generic?

Sorta. It's just the kind of thing I'd like to use as WHM. I spent several years with WHM as my only high-level job, so I've had to club a lot of critters to death to get things done.

[Razushu]

Sorta. It's just the kind of thing I'd like to use as WHM. I spent several years with WHM as my only high-level job, so I've had to club a lot of critters to death to get things done.

You.. monster!