It's time Summoner got Bahamut.

[rufuslupus]

This is not unrealistic. Everything is already there. It has been for years. years and years.

I think it's about time Summoner got Bahamut after how many years have passed since COP was released and finished. We are going to be level 99, Abyssea has changed the game, we got AF3 armor, and a new group of merits are coming. the game is and continues to change so much.

SE old reasons for not were problems of scaling him down. He has 2 model positions, one is flying in the air for cut-scenes and the other is of him floating above the ground like any normal avatar does for his bcnm fight. Bahamut's wings and tail are making him bigger than he is actually is so scaling him down to a certain degree until his wings and tail fit would make his body seem small. He would have to be a bit bigger than diabolos to look normal which dosn't go well in caves and small places. I would think the solution is that Bhamaut would only be used in open areas like chocobos are (also events) to avoid small places issues.

Bahamut already meets the prime fights requirements. He has his own whisper, he has his own avatar rewards. They need only add the option to turn in his whisper to obtain him instead of proceeding to his 2nd battle. Bahamut already has his own pacts reaching from level 1 to 90. Absolute Terror, Sweeping Flail, Touchdown, Trample, Horrible Roar, Impulsion, Megaflare, Gigaflare, and Teraflare as his astral flow. He is only missing an avatar's favor and what element he would be listed under. I think he's fire even if he does some aero stuff.

[Alhanelem]

If we got bahamut, it would be a 2hour ability only like Alex and Odin, and I don't really want that.

[katoplepa]

Bahamut already meets the prime fights requirements. He has his own whisper, he has his own avatar rewards. They need only add the option to turn in his whisper to obtain him instead of proceeding to his 2nd battle. Bahamut already has his own pacts reaching from level 1 to 90. Absolute Terror, Sweeping Flail, Touchdown, Trample, Horrible Roar, Impulsion, Megaflare, Gigaflare, and Teraflare as his astral flow. He is only missing an avatar's favor and what element he would be listed under. I think he's fire even if he does some aero stuff.

sounds like something too much powerful, and with the tons of SMN nowadays this will turn into :
everything done with Bahamut-burn , or something...

It's cool to think about Baha avatar, but I don't think SE will do it, or at least not in that way you suggest, prolly available in 2h, or no new avatar at all, because SMN are able to solo A LOT yet now with actual avatars..

[Nightshade]

Only way I see it possible without nerfing the Wyrmking and without overpowering SMN (though I don't mind since I am one) is a level 99 2 hour summon. Probably a powerful attack that can save your life in a pinch or seal the deal of a fight before the opponent can recover.

Either way, Bahamut should only happen if the summoner is at his or her peak.

Beside, there's two other candidates already in the game. Phoenix, the 5th terrestrial avatar, and Atomos. The former might not be in avatar form atm but the Phoenix always rise from the ashes. As for the other, his manifestation is summonable already by a mob...

Real question is: do we really need new pacts at this point?

[Emdub]

Greetings!

Don't mind me, just moving this thread on over to the Summoner forum.

Apologies for the inconvenience!

-=Game Master Emdub=-

[Vangoh]

I don't think Bahamut would be too much really, he does have powerful blood pacts but so does the others. I could live with Phoenix being summonable but not atomos, he's presented as the maws and nothing else. If you want a new avatar they should definetly think about...

HADES!!!!!!

Hades would be like the enfeebler avatar or something with strong melee blood pacts rage and lots of detrimental effects for blood pacts ward.

Although I'm not sure how everyone else feels about another dark avatar, so this idea will be discarded I bet...

OH WHAT ABOUT....Siren!!!!!????

She would have the same purpose as mentioned with Hades, plus we need an anti-mage/caster avatar with silencing attacks!

[ellehym]

i was really disappointed with odin and alex. after all that waiting for a new avatar, the shortchange us making them 2 hour only, which means you HAVE to be in a pt to use them or you are as good as dead if odin misses. because it's a 2 hour summon, you'd not use them too much outside of abyssea, and that kinda takes away the fun of using an avatar,personally, i've never even used alexander once, i've not been in any situations where he was worth losing my 2hr.

if SE adds any new avatars, and i hope they do, i wish they'd be usable like all the other avatars, a shield between the mob and the summoner.

[rufuslupus]

It's cool to think about Baha avatar, but I don't think SE will do it, or at least not in that way you suggest, prolly available in 2h, or no new avatar at all, because SMN are able to solo A LOT yet now with actual avatars..

I only listed him similar to how Carbuncle, Diabolos, and Fenrir are setup, because they are all Terrestrial Avatars.

Going by the usual setup applied to avatars who aren't Odin and Alexander, overall only 3 of his pacts would see use out of 9 total not counting favor. This is how it is for all avatars by late game. For example, Garuda is a great avatar but needs for her blinkga are none existent, her astral flow is forgotten. All that matters for her now is Predator Claws, Hastega, and her merit pact Wind Blade. Such would be the fate of Bahamut. Even if his astral flow was Teraflare, it would be no different than when Ifrit astral flows and be forgotten. He would have a DD pact, a magic nuke pact, a enfeeble or buff pact, and his favor.

Now the Odin and Alexander way, Bahamut's astral flow would be increased into the all powerful image your thinking about.

It's a choice really. Do you want a strong useful 2 hour that can really hurt a nm with extremely high hp better than the unbelievable damaging Odin, then watch him leave with all your mp. Or. Do you want a weaker version of Bahamut whose Flare attack is similar to Predator Claws damage output, is TP based since it's magical, and will probably be resisted without skill and accuracy. but unlike Odin and Alexander, afterwards you get frolic through grass fields with your new dragon friend.

[ellehym]

i rather have something that hits harder than the current go to avatars, but also is able to stay around and keep me from being beat to death

[Draylo]

I wouldn't mind them adding Bahamut as a 2hr only.

[Draylo]

Also look at how dead Summoner section is compared to the others. This job needs something... bad and Bahamut would be a perfect addition.

[Tenshi]

I'd like a physical avatar like Yojimbo or something. It may be interesting to get more avatars that are just spells, cast summon do a move and leave but not needed to have astral flow. There shouldn't be a problem naming summons but balancing them and also having them useful. I find that elemental strengths and weakness are no reason to switch what summon your using if it played a bigger role then maybe I'd summon Titan to fight rather than stick his thong in player's faces.

When SE said they didn't want to scale Bahamut I thought they were talking about his power, a level one Bahamut being beat by a bunny kind of stuff.

[Imakun]

I think we need more specialized avatars like a strong physical summon, a healing/buffing summon and a magic only summon.
I mean Summoner can work in so many different roles but it is imperative that we do so using our job's primary tools: the avatars.
Want more healing power? Summon Phoenix. Want a physical attacker? Summon Yojimbo. A nuking avatar? Go for Atomos (just throwing random names there).
They would have their own AI kinda like spirits BUT you can give them directions via general Blood Pacts like "Attack" (Rage), "Defend" (Ward), "Protect" (Ward, as in "buff us"), a Rage PB to tell Yojimbo to use a WS etcetc.
SE itself said long time ago that the new avatars would be hybrids, and I'm pretty sure they were not referring to Alexander and Odin.

I don't know, that's what I always thought we would get. Of course their AI needs to be much better than our current spirits' AI.. something like an Automaton's AI would be better already.

[Aerius]

I've talked about this in another thread but, what about hybrid-ish avatars? An avatar that's 2 elements at once, but as penalty is more vulnerable by the opposite elements. And ofcourse, it would be great if the Avatars would get AoE spells.
Ofcourse a Healing and or Enfeeb avatar also sounds great.

It's great that SE is making the game a bit more fun for soloing people, but adding more 2h only avatars will make things a bit boring, especially if you've looked at the same avatars for years and years.

Perhaps off topic in regards to AoE spells: sometimes it happens that you walk through somewhere, and you're aggro'd by multiple monsters, waiting for the recast of Assault is a HUGE pain in such moments and more than often simply means your demise. An AoE spell would take away emnity and give the Summoner enough time to either warp, sneak/invis up or run to a more secure location.

[Delente]

I don't think the problem is that SMNs need more new avatars, just need to utilize the avatars currently in the game. I wouldn't be too hard to incorporate Pheonix, Atamos, or Bahamut as usable avatars. Bahamut I agree should be used more like the regular avatars with the ability to maintain a constant usage in exchange for lower damage from his BP's/Astral Flow.
I think Pheonix and Atomos should function like Odin and Alexander do currently. Something along the lines of Pheonix comes out and casts Raise/RR on all pty members but it takes your 2 hr to achieve. Party members who are incapacitated would be given a raise effect while party members who are alive would be granted a RR effect. This shouldn't be all that game breaking considering the number of other jobs that can already raise and the fact that anything normally subbed already gives SMN raise with the exception of BLM. Atomos's effect could be along the lines of combining the DRK absorb spells into one ability, you would 2hr to drop the STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/MND/INT/CHR/ACC/RACC/TP.
Of course, with the avatar disappearing after the BP went off the stats would be lost instead of granted to the caster but it would be a great enfeeble to assist in the battle.

[Drhatchet]

SMN won't get Bahamut as a regular avatar, SE already said they don't want a weaksause version getting defeated by other mobs because hes supposed to be super powerful. I could see a 2h but I want a real avatar not another 2h.

Really, the only thing I could want for SMN at this point in the game is a light based avatar that doesn't suck (carby), capable of both physical and magical blood pacts. Carby is too weak to be worth using on just about anything.

[Flyinghippress]

The absolute only way I could see Bahamut being added is for the 2-hour ability. But like Drhatchet said, they won't be adding him. Sure they have a new dev. team and have changed their minds before but they were very adamant in this decision. Personally, I don't want him nor do I think SMN needs him. They've added a ton of gear that enhances BPR damage. It would be extremely lame to be in Dynamis - Tavnazia, 2-hour, summon Bahamut, get Sleepga II'd by Diabolos and wipe before Bahamut gets the move off. It's happened to me with Alexander which was funny but so lame. Bahamut is supposed to be all-powerful; too powerful for us to control.

What I do think SMN needs, and I've said this in another post, is an avatar dedicated to healing (even through BPRs in the effect of drains or sambas). If the healer goes down and it's up to you to keep people alive, it's tough. I sub RDM so I don't get Cure IV; it would be nice to have a BPR that could do a little damage to the mob and restore the HP of alliance members (or even just party). Follow that up with a BPW cure. Stagger those with Cure III and you wouldn't outperform the healer jobs but there'd be less likelihood of deaths.

[Kaych]

Me neither ^^ Wouldnt mind getting Phoenix either :D

[Ophiuchus]

Yes Bahamut was all-powerful... at 75. Now with the level cap at 90, and rising, he no longer holds the same throne as he once did. I put my vote to a non-2hour-only summon of Bahamut. Other jobs are planned to be given "ultimate" spells/abilities related to their profession, such as BLM with Meteor. So it would only make sence to give SMN an avatar of an "ultimate" tier such as what Bahamut is. As for the solution for not wanting Bahamut to die to a level 1 mob or something all you have to do is look at Odin and Alexander as they are now actually. Bahamut would just need a minimal level to summon it, like how Odin/Alex are 75+ to use.

I admit Bahamut is not quite what SMN need's however, though I would love to have him. What I feel SMN needs is more variety with their pet's abilities. For example I always felt that SMN should get bar-like spells/abilities. Perhaps they could add an ability to the BP:Ward of elemental spirits to give a bar-effect based off the element of the spirit since, with the avatar's favor update, BP:Rage and BP:Ward show up on the command list of spirits.

Though that still won't completely tackle the issue, it would just be another way to find a use for spirits. I like the idea someone suggested earlier of some new summons that work like Odin/Alex in that they are summoned, use an ability, and then release themselves automatically but are not restricted to Astral Flow.

[katoplepa]

I find that elemental strengths and weakness are no reason to switch what summon your using.

this is not always true, it depends on what type of SMN you are and what you do: if you always are in party with your friends, maybe you can choose your favorite avatar and use it all the time, I like to solo and if you play SMN for soloing you have to think about what fight you are about to do and what avatar you have to use: for example, when I soloed Cuelebre I used Garuda with only Wind Blade and I done very well; Shiva on Bakka using only Rush; Leviathan on Tonberry Lieje with Grand Fall, and so on... so every avatar CAN make the difference A LOT if you are soloing..

[RayneShock]

I would be happy for Bahamut to be a 2hr summon. I personally couldn't see how he could be a normal avatar that would follow you around...I mean he is just too big. But as a 2hr summon I could see him randomly choosing one of his 3 signature flare attacks (Megaflare, Gigaflare, and Teraflare). Because he would be 2hr only I would want even the "weaker" of the 3 to still be a pretty powerful attack though.

[hideka]

If we got bahamut, it would be a 2hour ability only like Alex and Odin, and I don't really want that.

completely agree witht his statment. odin and alex were SE's biggest cop-outs ever. these need to be moved to fulltimeable avatars each with their own list of pacts and favors. and definate yes to bahumut. id be ok with him being on 2h, long as odin/alex were not.

[DamonWolfe]

Adding Bahamut as a Lv 99 2hr only Ability to Use Mega/Giga/Terra Flare (which ever of the three) for big damage wouldn't be a bad idea, but I could not see him as a normal avatar with you in combat, it would honestly belittle the Idea of Bahamut

[Bejiita]

Square Enix could just remake Odin and Alexander into more conventional avatars and still retain their two hours abilities. Bahamut as a normal avatar is fine, since Carbuncle, Fenrir, Diabolos are all terrestial avatars as well. They talk of Bahamut's power, yet most players have beaten him in two different instances. Diabolos is the force behind Dynamis, I'd say that's pretty powerful too. Anyway, it's only a manifestation of them, not the total sum of their power.

[Cupofnoodles]

I don't think Bahamut would be too much really, he does have powerful blood pacts but so does the others. I could live with Phoenix being summonable but not atomos, he's presented as the maws and nothing else. If you want a new avatar they should definetly think about...

HADES!!!!!!

Hades would be like the enfeebler avatar or something with strong melee blood pacts rage and lots of detrimental effects for blood pacts ward.

Although I'm not sure how everyone else feels about another dark avatar, so this idea will be discarded I bet...

OH WHAT ABOUT....Siren!!!!!????

She would have the same purpose as mentioned with Hades, plus we need an anti-mage/caster avatar with silencing attacks!

I think your grasping at straws there

[Luvbunny]

By making Alexander and Odin can only be used as two hours ability is a very lazy and desperate move from SE. It's like they ran out of ideas to what the two avatars can be used for, and just give us their astral flow ability. If anything, instead of giving us more avatars, they should fix Alexander and Odin and make it not just usable as two hours. I am sure there plenty of abilities that can be given to these two avatars beside the two hours only.

[JagerForrester]

Odin's 2hour is a Final Fantasy favorites as well as godly. I'm surprised Alexander didn't become a normal avatar with Holy Judgment. But they built him as the immobile guardian in this game, hence why Perfect Defense was given and to deviate from his inability to walk with us.

We should be thankful we got these 2 at all.

[Strife]

SE already said they wouldn't ever give SMN Bahamut because they didn't want to diminish his power & prestige in Vana deil. Though that was of course pre uncapping so maybe they'll change their mind when people are soloing him for S&G.

@Emdub
Toll for moving is 1 new avatar please^^

@rufuslupus
Bahamut was usually the non-elemental damage avatar.

@Vangoh
Sirens a good idea a beefed up light avatar would be nice & a good enfeebling avatar might be nice to.. or they could just do something to improve avatar magic accuracy for the avatars we already have, actually I'd prefer that.

@ellehym
I totally agree with you less 2hr avatars more normal avatars please though adding another 2hr one like say Pheonix as well would be extra nice!


afterwards you get frolic through grass fields with your new dragon friend.
I like this.

@Imakun
I've been waiting for this to SE announced it a long time ago as something the were seriously wanting to do, what gives SE?

Lets all hop on the Doom Train! I don't care what it's BP are I just want to ride it places like a chocobo on speed.

[JagerForrester]

I'd kinda freak out if I saw this long moving object racing across the fields of Vana'diel. I wouldn't know what a train even is. Doom Train worked in FF8 because they had trains in their time period.

[Secondplanet]

I think if anything to go with the story if Bahamut does become a summonable avatar which i really hope they don't they should make it a 2hr smn and his attack would have a 50/50 chance of either killing all enemies infront for you or your whole party for making him come out.

[JagerForrester]

... they should make it a 2hr smn and his attack would have a 50/50 chance of either killing all enemies infront for you or your whole party for making him come out.

/laughs and slaps Secondplanet on the back.
Too funny!

[Silvers]

Odin's 2hour is a Final Fantasy favorites as well as godly. I'm surprised Alexander didn't become a normal avatar with Holy Judgment. But they built him as the immobile guardian in this game, hence why Perfect Defense was given and to deviate from his inability to walk with us.

We should be thankful we got these 2 at all.

Immobile.... you can't say that. SE didn't event stick to that stample when they designed the fight to make a pact with Alex.then You could say then same about the other celestial avatars being immoble in the crystals, yet they move. I still wonder why they took the route they did with Odin and Alex. If you can only use them while Astral Flow is active, why cut there use to only a brief moment? Why didn't they allow SMN full use of one of them for the full duration of AF? Example: SMN sets up shop and summon Alex, Alex uses Perfect Defense (Grand Opening), bashes on mob/NM until AF wears, is released, or HP hits zero and Alex uses Divine Judgement then leaves (Grand Closing). But we are stuck with how things are now.

[Secondplanet]

I think overall smn's should get any other summons, instead i think they should "evolve" our current ones, either through a merit or a quest to have like titan 2.0 where he has like a huge shield for a arm and new blood pacts but you have to summon titan and choose a pet ability then they go inside their repective crystal and after a "casting" time come out as their more powerful form at a higher mp cost or same MP cost but can only choose 1 or 2 of your avatars to do this to. I just think the original 6 are over looked even fenrir and diablos are overlooked recently.

[JagerForrester]

Immobile.... you can't say that. SE didn't event stick to that stample when they designed the fight to make a pact with Alex.then You could say then same about the other celestial avatars being immoble in the crystals, yet they move. I still wonder why they took the route they did with Odin and Alex. If you can only use them while Astral Flow is active, why cut there use to only a brief moment? Why didn't they allow SMN full use of one of them for the full duration of AF? Example: SMN sets up shop and summon Alex, Alex uses Perfect Defense (Grand Opening), bashes on mob/NM until AF wears, is released, or HP hits zero and Alex uses Divine Judgement then leaves (Grand Closing). But we are stuck with how things are now.

Unfortunately, I haven't fought Alex for the pact yet (returned from a 2yr break and all). I did check a video, and I saw he is a mobile object. I'll take back my statement. But I'm sure you've done a Trial fight. The opening cutscene presents the avatar coming out of slumber to take on the challengers that entered the realm.

I like your idea of Alex getting Holy Judgment as a "Grand Closing" move. But there are some flaws. For one, you're talking 3 minutes flat for Perfect Defense. Nothing that strong is going to last that long. At least with the two dismissing themselves, you can 'fresh up and summon another avatar for another 2hour if you desire. Two, if Alex was set up with 2 moves, how would Odin be set up? I can't think of an opening move Odin would do that's fair and effective. Paralyzga? Gagnrath? Yggr? And three, Perfect Defense and Holy Judgment are 2 powerful moves. Other avatars in FFXI only have one 2hour move, he's special, but not that special.

[Pebe]

Returning to the topic of Phoenix, I think he could be either a 2hr ability or a summon and be beastly either way.

2hr ability only: Rebirth Flame - Summons PHoenix dealing extreme Fire (and Light?) based damage to the enemy. All players, regardless of alliance or parties, within 30 yalms receives the effect of Arise (Raise without weakness).

If his ability was like this, I wouldn't find him as only a 2hr. This would pretty much save an entire linkshell from a wipe.

Edit: Oh hey, there is a phoenix thread dedicated to the topic... woops my bad.

[Silvers]

Unfortunately, I haven't fought Alex for the pact yet (returned from a 2yr break and all). I did check a video, and I saw he is a mobile object. I'll take back my statement. But I'm sure you've done a Trial fight. The opening cutscene presents the avatar coming out of slumber to take on the challengers that entered the realm.

I like your idea of Alex getting Holy Judgment as a "Grand Closing" move. But there are some flaws. For one, you're talking 3 minutes flat for Perfect Defense. Nothing that strong is going to last that long. At least with the two dismissing themselves, you can 'fresh up and summon another avatar for another 2hour if you desire. Two, if Alex was set up with 2 moves, how would Odin be set up? I can't think of an opening move Odin would do that's fair and effective. Paralyzga? Gagnrath? Yggr? And three, Perfect Defense and Holy Judgment are 2 powerful moves. Other avatars in FFXI only have one 2hour move, he's special, but not that special.

Didn't say or sugguest a change to Perfect Defense. From a BP stand point with if you cap -BP with gear (-15) you can fire off 4 2HR abilities (not counting Odin, and Alex unless you use them last). I know a number of people the brought up the idea of reevaluating 2HR abilities for leveling 60~70+, do to the strength of most of the Lv70 BPs. It wouldn't be too much to see Alex and Odin using strong 2BPs per summon with in 3min of AF.

As for the Trials you only wake them breifly. When they fully awaken, they shatter the crystal like the one that was in Pso'Xja. FFXI design and story make it seem like SMN call on astral projections of the gods.

[Imakun]

IIRC if the Celestial Avatar were to truly awaken from their slumber they'll just nuke us to death.
That's why our summons are called Avatars, they're just a shadow of the sleeping gods. A "fragment of their power" as they call it.

[Strife]

@JagerForrester
Unfortunately AF is cancelled as soon as either Odin or Alexander use their BP. :(

[Kaych]

I was thinking that a way we could make Bahamut summonable and still have it "Powerful" like SE wants it to be, is maybe to make it only summonable when you have 3-6 Summoners, then use it as a 2hr.

I got the idea from the Black Mages "Meteor". When you see the Tarutarus in the opening movie, they are lined up and cast Meteor. It looks sorta like a "group-magic". I was thinking that Bahamut should be like that. That way, it keeps its "powerful-ness", makes it harder to use and keeps it "unique-ness". This way you can make it more powerful, the more Summoners you have.

[Soundwave]

Yes please to Bahamut, can't really keep his powerful image anymore...when a group can just Kclub it, but don't even need to do that anymore.

So whats stopping ya SE?!:cool:

[Malamasala]

I got the idea from the Black Mages "Meteor". When you see the Tarutarus in the opening movie, they are lined up and cast Meteor. It looks sorta like a "group-magic". I was thinking that Bahamut should be like that. That way, it keeps its "powerful-ness", makes it harder to use and keeps it "unique-ness". This way you can make it more powerful, the more Summoners you have.

It is good for opening movies, but in the game it would just end up being a comparison of "If 5 BLMs cast thunder V each, or do a group meteor, which does most damage?" and then the winner of that question would be the only way to play.

Not to mention how ridiculous it would be to make an 18 man alliance need 5 BLMs for meteor and 5 SMNs for Bahamut and then just leave 8 slots for the other 18 jobs to share.

[Kaych]

Well, the same goes for BLMs. I think meteor only should be used when you have 2hr activated^_-

[Karbuncle]

If they give us new avatars i want something i can summon and keep out. Its not too much to ask that as a SMN i can actually Summon things and keep them with me. I think it would be nice to get a Avatar that would have a strong Melee-phase damage output as well as some good DD Bloodpacts. also an Avatar whos primary focus is Support.

I could see Bahamut being that "DD" Avatar, He's suppose to be really powerful, Give him strong TP-phase DD capabilities, and perhaps Bloodpacts that rely heavily on TP (as with any Melee). This would encourage (to some extent) Allowing Bahamut to Melee if his damage was acceptable. Instead of giving him the MABIV traits Avatars have, Perhaps give him Subtle Blow/Store TP Traits, so he can DD and not feed a lot of TP.

And I could see Phoenix as being that "Support" Avatar. Maybe having Bloodpacts that mainly focus on healing. Give it a Partial Light Spirit AI As well. When in "Passive" mode it could Cast Cure spells (No Buffs like Light spirit, also no spells during Battle) However, Give it slightly quicker casting time than Light Spirit with Capped skill. Give it Bloodpacts that mainly focus on Healing/Support. AoE Cure on the same power of say, Curaga IV. a BP That enhances Attack/Dbl Attack (Fire Aspect of it), Just a bunch of Support Abilities making it a Support Avatar.


Bahamut's Avatars Favor could increase your Attack (Up to about DRK Lucky Roll)
Phoenix's Avatar's Favor could increase Cure Potency (Up to 15%)


BTW i use Phoenix and Bahamut as examples as they're already in the game in some way)

[Divinechild]

Bump

Since it's Year of the Wyrm" how about that Bahamut?

[ShadowHeart]

yes please :)

[Yygdrasil]

It won't happen. Why not refocus efforts on something realistic for once?

[ShadowHeart]

ya about as realistic of getting caith syth and atomos some day in the near future LOL

[radicaldreamer]

Hehe, and what about FFXI is supposed to be realistic anyway? Would be boring if it were realistic.

[Shadotter]

I think now that we are 99 maybe bahamut could happen, however just like in the other games you would have to have a suitable show of your power, maybe a 1 on 1 fight? Either way you could probably make him somewhat of an odd sort, like maybe giving up the ability to send commands and having him act on automatic, or maybe having him attack less often but making it so that if he casts megaflare it ignores defense? I see him as a highly independant being who would only help you if you proved you were on equal footing and while coming to your aid, would not put himself under you.

[Zerich]

SE has officially said that they will never implement the wyrmking, bahamut, as a summoner's avatar. they believe he is too powerful and that it would diminish his position within vana'diel.

so no.

[Thanotos]

idk why people keep saying they wouldnt want bahamut if they made him into a 2hr only avatar, I would love to have bahamut in any form possible, regardless of how situational it may be.

[Yygdrasil]

Before anyone else bothers to suggest Bahamut as an Avatar... please take the time to complete CoP. If you bothered to pay attention to the story at all... you'd realize that its simply not possible to fit him in as an Avatar based exclusively on the storyline.

Hell... it was a stretch for them to even give us Fenrir considering the storyline of WotG: Windurst.

[Babekeke]

Hell... it was a stretch for them to even give us Fenrir considering the storyline of WotG: Windurst.

although we got fenrir many years before WoTG even came out >.>

[Yygdrasil]

I would like to think that the lore and history within a game was developed long before the game itself. Just because we didn't have the expansion yet doesn't automatically mean that the developers just came up with the WotG storyline on the fly.

Think about it guy. What do we usually get years in advance of almost every major title? We get spoilers... bits of STORY... and information about the game that has already been decided more often than not. I would venture a guess that Fenrir's entire involvement in FFXI was planned out before we ever got our hands on the original launch.

What I'm saying is that it's a stretch that they gave him to us given the powerful role he plays in the past. I agree that we should not get Bahamut for the same reason. Bahamut is far too powerful and far too involved in the Missions to be given to us as an Avatar.

[Tannlore]

I would like to think that the lore and history within a game was developed long before the game itself. Just because we didn't have the expansion yet doesn't automatically mean that the developers just came up with the WotG storyline on the fly.

Think about it guy. What do we usually get years in advance of almost every major title? We get spoilers... bits of STORY... and information about the game that has already been decided more often than not. I would venture a guess that Fenrir's entire involvement in FFXI was planned out before we ever got our hands on the original launch.

It's more like a general outline of story and finer points and details ironed out. We actually have a peek into what they had in mind back when RotZ was released. Go look on the net and you'll find the sketches, interviews, commentary and such (hope you can read Japanese). I really don't think they had the fine details of WotG scripted deeply until it was time to do so. Especially considering when they trademarked the expansion. Think about what it takes to write a book, then to write a series of books. go look at Harry Potter's author J.K Rowling, then look at J.R.R. Tolkien and compare planning processes for epic size story (like you get in this game).

Do you really think when FF11 was released they had all the current expacs and add-ons completely planned, scripted, thought out? Every word, nuance, event? Tanaka himself said they had to adapt to the changes in technology that changed CS in WotG to be so much better than before. One can only "plan" so much to the point where you're wasting time by over planning. As the Goblin credo goes: Time is money friend.




What I'm saying is that it's a stretch that they gave him to us given the powerful role he plays in the past. I agree that we should not get Bahamut for the same reason. Bahamut is far too powerful and far too involved in the Missions to be given to us as an Avatar.


On Fenrir: Considering we have access to the other avatars who are just as, if not more powerful than Fenrir I don't see a problem given Fenrir's power in the past. (do waking the beast, you'll find out just how scary powerful the primes really are.) We already knew he was the one who ravaged that continent way before WotG was released because of the story of the game. (again that general rough outline).

On Bahamut:
I'm sorry, Bahamut? That would be the one a few Zilart mannequins chained up rather effortlessly? The same mannequins you the player dismantle rather easily? This would be the same avatar that couldn't do what you the player did? (defeat Promathia).

No, currently players are so much more powerful that Bahamut he should rightly fear them. If the adventurers of Vanadiel one day decided Bahamut must die. He ... will... die. If the paternal creator deity can fall to a handful of adventurers back at 75, what will happen at 99? Esp. considering players can defeat him already in a bcnm where he gets help from his fellow HNM Wyrms!

I think you give bahamut too much credit. We don't get him for two simple reasons: He's too big for players to cart around behind them (he's Massive folks... seriously, go use model viewer and see) and it would take too much manpower to make him useable in the typical smn fashion.

What I'm seeing here is a disconnect with the power of the avatars vs. what we can do. We are summoners who summon an aspect of their great power: A small aspect. There's a reason smn are heretics in Vanadiel, a very good reason. One who can call the gods should rightly be feared. Imagine one day if your Ramuh suddenly decided to fully wake up while you had him out? You would die, yes you the smn.


Now, Bahamut as a 2-hour? I could see him being a new merited 2-hour :D

[Shadotter]

Well, story wise he is supposed to be the most powerful of the terrestrial avatars, despite that. What if though you were only able to summon even less of him, maybe having him not appear or auto attack but just have the bloodpacts available. or maybe making a couple one hit spells similar to the effects of 2 hour summons without actually summoning. Or maybe even making it so that summoning requires the use of an item or something that gets used up and needs replacing every so often.

[ShadowHeart]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Whisper_of_the_Wyrmking

bring it to us SE its all right there to be done!!!!!!!

ki is already there just need to figure out its abilities and make it so u have to do the bcnm battle

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Wyrmking_Descends

[Sargent]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Whisper_of_the_Wyrmking

bring it to us SE its all right there to be done!!!!!!!

ki is already there just need to figure out its abilities and make it so u have to do the bcnm battle

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Wyrmking_Descends

Don't give SE ideas, this is how they'd end up "reviving" ENMs. Seriously, getting an Ouryu pop was one of the biggest pains in this game and the main reason I don't have a Bahamut's.

[Rakshaka]

Quote from the Relic/Mythic/Empy thread: "Additional planned features, such as equipment-specific magic spells and pets, have been postponed to allow...", Maybe we'll be able to summon Bahamut or another avatar via one of the relic/mythic/empy staves.

[Fyreus]

They could stick some lore in the game mechanics and make fenrir somewhat strong in some way possible. We don't need new avatars, they need to convert our current avatars into usable summons. I'd love to have a fast and strong fenrir or not have to always use my Lv75 attacks vs mobs (dunno why they put haste, blink, walk speed, healing, nukes, and the strongest PHY pact, and useful special gear on 1 avatar...) while wondering why in the world i went to fight that stupid fast wolf and his sleepga happy friend only to not have any use for them.