emergency world maintenace already...........

[ShadowHeart]

5 minutes warning that is just fail..........

[Zagen]

I'm guessing a pretty big exploit was found

[Karbuncle]

Well this is a big bug to fix :P...

Any cure spell doing 99,999 dmg to undead... Can one shot Titl's, Mict... Any Undead NM or Undead anywhere. Imagine a level 1 WHM going to KRT and spamming cure on the mobs there? Infinite chains and super exp.

Course they're going to nerf it.

5 minutes is a bit cheap, What about the people in Dynamis? Abyssea? Limbus? Assaults? Einherjar? Salvage? etc. But they need to fix this quick. Hopefully they wont follow it up with a Banhammer like usual.

Either way.

FOUR F**KING HOURS?!

[Kimble]

Cures 1-6 were doing 99.999 dmg to undead type mobs

[Tsukino_Kaji]

5 minutes warning that is just fail..........It was more like 5 and a half. lol

[Neika]

Ya it must be something major cuz usually they give us a couple hours notice, not just 5 mins. 5 min warning for maintenance is just wrong.

oh wow...cures doing that kinda damage to undead mobs is a major issue...now i understand the 5 min warning. must be something else with it though, cause I can't see it taking that long to fix it.

[Kimble]

4 1/2 hour maintenance to fix a 2 hour update doesnt seem right.

[Vazerus]

Oh well... New plan for the evening I guess; Planetside (free for a bit because of the SOE hackings) or The Witcher 1?

[Karbuncle]

Minecraft or Nostalgia some Diablo II >_>

[Valonquar]

I'm guessing there's ALWAYS an emergency maintenance that's twice as long as the actual maintenance practically every time they do an update. One can dream the test server will one day help with that some, however unlikely.

[Neonii]

lol I had just finished updating and first thing I see coming out of loading screen is this. I was like wow whole day wasted and during my vacation.

[ShadowHeart]

someone screaming in port that npc giving 1.6mil and change for any items not sure if trolling or serious on that one lolz

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Diablo II >_>I'll come if you don't mind that I'm a rampant hacker.

[Rezeak]

SE u ow me 1-2 Isa hearts he was at 3% :( it's a hard duo DRK + WHM too :P

[Airget]

Maybe SE will decide to sneak in the test server so they don't gotta deal with these emergency maintenances anymore XD

[Ilax]

You know what make me rage? Server maintenance 2h then server is up again then BAAM someone find the exploit in 1h. Why again we have Beta test Server in FFXI? Should they just change who beta test....

Anyway 5 min warning was big FAIL. I swear god if exploit was found at JP time, the emergency maintenance would be 12 hours warning right?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SE u ow me 1-2 Isa hearts he was at 3% :( it's a hard duo DRK + WHM too :PToo bad he wasn't undead, you could have just one shot'd it.

[Chronofantasy]

2 hours to fix the exploit then 2 hours to discover/ban all the people who abused the exploit maybe? Glad I was only fishing today and I wasn't in any timed area or killing a NM or I'd be pissed too. Now it's time for me to find something to do for about 4 hours or so.

[Raucent]

i kinda have to agree on the test server whats the purpose of it if they don't catch something like cure doing 99,999 to undead. Beyond that how can an update taking 2 hours to do need 4.5 hours to fix.

[ShadowHeart]

really 4 and a half hours to nerf a cure spam?? LOLZ

glad i was just working on synergy about to go into dynamis..... that would of sucked....

must all be gone for breakfast and just janitor working atm .... again

[Runespider]

This is a pretty embarassing fail for whoever was working on this update, it was pretty heavily abused for a while too lol Level 1's one shotting IT++, people one shotting all kinds of nms etc.

I doubt anyone will get banned for it but they will be pretty miffed about looking so stupid I would think.

[Akenara]

Did anyone happen to get any screen shots of the 99999 damage cures? I would like to see it just to be amused.

[Cream_Soda]

Did anyone happen to get any screen shots of the 99999 damage cures? I would like to see it just to be amused.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7121/ffxi20110711153128.png

[Vazerus]

Did anyone happen to get any screen shots of the 99999 damage cures? I would like to see it just to be amused.
http://pillows.dk/lolwutts.png
Found that on another forum :3.

-edit- beaten D:

[Ilax]

with 5 min warning, i find this a funny line:


* The World Transfer Service will be unavailable starting 30 minutes before the maintenance.

[Wolfjorg]

There are screen shots on AH.com of people doing. I had 5 freaking imps left to kill to finish lv90 axe. WTG SE. Now can't finish till wednesday. Uggh pisses me off sometimes.

[Alukat]

adressing issues takes longer as playing an update onto server.

[ShadowHeart]

damn too bad shinryu wasn't undead hahaha

[Chronofantasy]

cure cleave pty anyone? Let's bring us some whms, pull the entire zone, and curaga those suckers.

[ShadowHeart]

meet me in eldieme!!!! i am in

[Mnejing]

Getting revenge on Xibalba was fun. :)

[Dreamin]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7121/ffxi20110711153128.png

Am I the only person who catch this right? Is that a real GM??? Cuz...it appears he's running on Windower. So did we just lose a GM? Or will SE going to have to sanction the use of Windower, which is a 3rd party tool?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Am I the only person who catch this right? Is that a real GM??? Cuz...it appears he's running on Windower. So did we just lose a GM? Or will SE going to have to sanction the use of Windower, which is a 3rd party tool?I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.

[Darkneku]

I really don't get how this wasn't noticed before the server went back online.

[Vazerus]

Am I the only person who catch this right? Is that a real GM??? Cuz...it appears he's running on Windower. So did we just lose a GM? Or will SE going to have to sanction the use of Windower, which is a 3rd party tool?

That is not a real GM; it's a real player using a third party tool.

[Neika]

Am I the only person who catch this right? Is that a real GM??? Cuz...it appears he's running on Windower. So did we just lose a GM? Or will SE going to have to sanction the use of Windower, which is a 3rd party tool?

I heard something about a plug-in that can give you the GM icon and red name. That's probably what it is.

[Ravenmore]

This is now the best broken items they have ever messed up. It tops SA working from in front of the mob.

[ShadowHeart]

hmmm i don't have gm tag over my head or the time before my chat log .... maybe it only come on console version ;)

[Runespider]

Am I the only person who catch this right? Is that a real GM??? Cuz...it appears he's running on Windower. So did we just lose a GM? Or will SE going to have to sanction the use of Windower, which is a 3rd party tool?

Its just some 3rdparty program that lets them act like a GM client side, loads of players abuse it. It's pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things but yeah, whoever took that picture won't like it being posted here.

[Raxiaz]

I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.

TParty. DrawDistance. etc

The [GM] next to peoples' names is a 3rd party alteration. They also have the ability to use the Producer icon. Or whatever it was, maybe it's director. But it's basically the "I'm god, don't mess with me" icon.

[Cream_Soda]

I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.
Look harder then.

Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.

and of course he's using unofficial windower, look at the timestamp plug in. Again were blind to windowed mode, and then blind to unofficial windower.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The EU mat thread was deleted and reposted. >.>

[RabidSquirrel]

I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.

It would be nice if Windower had a different name just to avoid posts like this.

Windower = Third party tool
Windowed Mode = An option in the config executable to display the game in a window.

[Octaviane]

Dang! I wish I could have been online to see my level 10 WHM do that kind of damage. Pretty funny.

Glad to see though that most everyone has taken the issue in good humor, but you do have to wonder about the next major Version Update.

[Saefinn]

I wonder, how was exp affected? I mean the low level MNK/WHM 1 hitting that Level 91 monster surely got a tonne of exp or has SE capped that?

Hmm, I so needed Xibalba for seals. I was gonna work on my hands next. :P But of course, SE do need to fix it quickly, though 5 minutes is a bit too quick, whilst yes people were abusing the system and winning out of it, I suspect plenty of other folk missed out because they were fighting NMs, doing Dynamis or whatever. Luckily I was only skilling up.

[Rearden]

I wonder, how was exp affected? I mean the low level MNK/WHM 1 hitting that Level 91 monster surely got a tonne of exp or has SE capped that?

Hmm, I so needed Xibalba for seals. I was gonna work on my hands next. :P But of course, SE do need to fix it quickly, though 5 minutes is a bit too quick, whilst yes people were abusing the system and winning out of it, I suspect plenty of other folk missed out because they were fighting NMs, doing Dynamis or whatever. Luckily I was only skilling up.
__________

wat

[Gennadi]

Man you guys are just plain wrong. The real reason this emergency maintenance will take over 4 hrs is they are installing a new heavy duty load capacity toiled seat in my moghouse. Do you realize the true size of a galka's butt?

[Tannlore]

I don't think they'll be banning people.. though honestly I Wouldn't put it completely past them. I remember the salvage duping bannings in the past....

What they MIGHT do is roll the servers back to oh... 20 mins or so before they took them down. That they could do you know. Just saying. But they could just be lazy and leave well enough alone and be all, "Heh... Sorry about that! Our bad! *Smacks Developer with rolled up newspaper* Bad! No cookie for you!"

[Saefinn]

__________

wat

What I mean is. You got the level 16MNK/WHM 1 shotting a Level 91 undead mob - I'd like to know how much exp he received. Does SE cap exp or will it multiply the higher up, so a Level 16 killing a level 91 would give an insane amount of exp? Therefore making this balls up beneficial to exp gain.

[Alukat]

I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.

he uses windower
-time in chat
-tp in pt overview
-0.0 in top status bar below help

that's the proof of windower, this things aren't at the official client.

[Rearden]

What I mean is. You got the level 16MNK/WHM 1 shotting a Level 91 undead mob - I'd like to know how much exp he received. Does SE cap exp or will it multiply the higher up, so a Level 16 killing a level 91 would give an insane amount of exp? Therefore making this balls up beneficial to exp gain.

........wat

[Neika]

What I mean is. You got the level 16MNK/WHM 1 shotting a Level 91 undead mob - I'd like to know how much exp he received. Does SE cap exp or will it multiply the higher up, so a Level 16 killing a level 91 would give an insane amount of exp? Therefore making this balls up beneficial to exp gain.

I'm pretty sure it caps 400 without a band...only way to go higher than that is to get exp chains, which would be really easy to get one-shotting things.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What I mean is. You got the level 16MNK/WHM 1 shotting a Level 91 undead mob - I'd like to know how much exp he received. Does SE cap exp or will it multiply the higher up, so a Level 16 killing a level 91 would give an insane amount of exp? Therefore making this balls up beneficial to exp gain.XP has a cap regardless of level, otherwise people would have been PLing people in merit pts for ages.
that's the proof of windower, this things aren't at the official client.They're obviously 3rd pt, but an obvious mark of a windower specifically?

[Galadrial]

XP has a cap regardless of level, otherwise people would have been PLing people in merit pts for ages.They're obviously 3rd pt, but an obvious mark of a windower specifically?

Seriously.. stop....

anyone that has even remotely looked into windower and has seen screenshots over the years knows what it looks like.. no point in even trying to say it isnt.. Also.. FPS rate in top right corner... thats not on 'official' windower nor on any others as far as im aware.

[Zanoza]

I see absolutely nothing that shows it to be windowed. Besides, what about windowed mode? That's not 3rd party.

that is windower.

[AyinDygra]

Maybe they were having fun with these ideas:

one-hit kill undead with raise thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10562-How-awesome-would-it-be-to-one-hit-kill-Too-weak-undead-mobs-with-raise?p=134061&viewfull=1#post134061)

"This worked in older FF games stuff, thread" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10560-Ever-have-a-This-worked-in-older-FF-games%21-newb-moment?p=134042&viewfull=1#post134042)

and forgot to take out that code when they were done.

[Cream_Soda]

They're obviously 3rd pt, but an obvious mark of a windower specifically?


Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.

Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.

Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.

In case you missed it at the top of the page.

[Karbuncle]

I know its Windower and all but... Is fraps not a possibility? Or is this more about "Third party tools" and not specifically Windower?

Or do people still think you can be banned for using Fraps too >_>?

[Cream_Soda]

I know its Windower and all but... Is fraps not a possibility? Or is this more about "Third party tools" and not specifically Windower?

Or do people still think you can be banned for using Fraps too >_>?
If not, I'm sure Tsu will say they could be playing legit and taking a pic w/ their digital camera!

[Zanoza]

Man you guys are just plain wrong. The real reason this emergency maintenance will take over 4 hrs is they are installing a new heavy duty load capacity toiled seat in my moghouse. Do you realize the true size of a galka's butt?

LOL thats funny........ wait where my toilet mog must be hiding it.

[Eadieni]

That's Windower because you can still see the FPS in the top right corner. Fraps doesn't do that, that's the Windower FPS meter.

[Foxx]

Lol......that was me yelling about the 1.6m before I logged.....on Baha.....

[Saefinn]

I'm pretty sure it caps 400 without a band...only way to go higher than that is to get exp chains, which would be really easy to get one-shotting things.

Ah thanks for clearing that up. So at least it wasn't THAT insanely broken that I could have easily levelled my WHM up several levels in those 2 hours. :P

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In case you missed it at the top of the page.What you can and cannot take screen shots of has nothing to do with windower/windowed. He's obviously not using the ingame screen capture. What I am say is the presence of other 3rd pt tools do not preclude the presense of a windower.
If not, I'm sure Tsu will say they could be playing legit and taking a pic w/ their digital camera!I'm not defending it, the guy is obviously not legit. You're missing everything that I said and you do not need a windower to take screen shots. There are countless non-FFXI programs for screen capture. Legitimate programs are not 3rd pt tools.

[Cream_Soda]

and?

Convo looks like this

"Hey you don't know if he's using windower or not"

*points to 3rd pt plug ins*

"Well, IF he weren't using those, you wouldn't be able to tell"

Well, he was and we can tell. End of story.

[Seyrena]

and?

Convo looks like this

"Hey you don't know if he's using windower or not"

*points to 3rd pt plug ins*

"Well, IF he weren't using those, you wouldn't be able to tell"

Well, he was and we can tell. End of story.

Allow me to illustrate.

http://i.imgur.com/Ve5Ql.png

[Raxiaz]

Allow me to illustrate.

http://i.imgur.com/Ve5Ql.png

You forgot to highlight the more noticeable [GM] and TimeStamp plugins, too.

[Seyrena]

You forgot to highlight the more noticeable [GM] and TimeStamp plugins, too.

http://i.imgur.com/6jZRg.png

[Tsukino_Kaji]

and?

Convo looks like this

"Hey you don't know if he's using windower or not"

*points to 3rd pt plug ins*

"Well, IF he weren't using those, you wouldn't be able to tell"

Well, he was and we can tell. End of story.No, you're saying that the use of 3rd pt tools automatically includes the use of a windower. That the ability to take a screen shot automatically includes the use of a windower. I'm saying that regardless of the obvious 3rd pt tools, there's no way for you to know that he's not using that along with the official windower. It's just your assumption.
You forgot to highlight the more noticeable [GM] and TimeStamp plugins, too.And the GM tag doesn't have to be a plugin, it could simply be a .dat swap.

[Saefinn]

I'm just expecting a:

"I'm using Windower so I know what it looks like!" response. Then click. Then ban (or warning).

[Nawesemo]

GDI our servers are down and your fighting about a Gosh Darn Picture! WTF people!?

[Kimble]

GDI our servers are down and your fighting about a Gosh Darn Picture! WTF people!?

Yes, won't someone please think of the servers!

[Elexia]

I feel like I'm the only person that senses the sarcasm in his posts >.> Either way.

Fastest emergency maintenance that felt like an emergency maintenance ever.

[Cream_Soda]

No, you're saying that the use of 3rd pt tools automatically includes the use of a windower. That the ability to take a screen shot automatically includes the use of a windower. I'm saying that regardless of the obvious 3rd pt tools, there's no way for you to know that he's not using that along with the official windower. It's just your assumption.I'm saying that doesn't matter.

We said THAT PARTICULAR PERSON was using windower and you said we do not know that. Then we pointed out the plug ins, which indicated he was using windower.

Being wrong, you changed the subject to you don't need windower to take screen shots. See my point?

That's like when you get into an argument with a crazy gf. You point out she's wrong, so she just jumps on the next thing to complain about because she likes to complain.

Edit:
For example

And the GM tag doesn't have to be a plugin, it could simply be a .dat swap.
Arguing for the sake of arguing.

How's that nin/drk working out for you?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

How's that nin/drk working out for you?Very well actualy.

[Raxiaz]

And the GM tag doesn't have to be a plugin, it could simply be a .dat swap.

Yes, and it could be simply a function enabled by a GUI botting program.

[Dragen]

Look harder then.

Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.

and of course he's using unofficial windower, look at the timestamp plug in. Again were blind to windowed mode, and then blind to unofficial windower.

Actually, you can take screen shots with the menu open while playing in the official windowed mode of FFXI. You just have to have another window selected/on top. I've done this many times just having a text file open, doing a PrtScn of my entire monitor screen, then pasting the image into Photoshop and cropping out all but the FFXI window. It's a pain in the rear but it IS doable without any 3rd party program like Windower.

Granted, they won't be "official" screenshots since it won't add that copyright information, but they'll also not be reduced to that smaller resolution either.

[Cream_Soda]

Official non windower mode screen shots you can't prtscreen. You can't take regular screen shots w/ the menu open.
I bolded it for you, in case you missed it the first time.

[Nawesemo]

;)

... ... /facepalm

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It was just extended 3 hours.

[Darkneku]

The maintenance got extended. Just saying.

[marvin83]

I find it funny people still shake their finger at people using Windower. So 6 years ago. WHO CARES?!?!?!

Hope ya'll enjoy your evening and hope servers come back on soon for you. :)

[Saefinn]

I've got nothing against it. Windower's features I think are just basically UI fixes that SE should learn from.

And wow to the extension.

[Suirieko]

I find it funny people still shake their finger at people using Windower. So 6 years ago. WHO CARES?!?!?!

Hope ya'll enjoy your evening and hope servers come back on soon for you. :)

I just find the whole thing funny when people cry horror over the whole windower plugins, whenever it pops up in screenshot, thus resulting in 2 pages or more of derailed thread content.

All in all, I'm finding it very amusing that SE had to extend this emergency maintenance by 3 hours over an epic glitch, that or they must've found something else even more staggering.

[Tommykun]

Ah sweet mother of Moogles... It takes an extra three hours just to roll back a single equation change? O.o;

[Nawesemo]

Nerf Blu while your at it! /fume (they're making it stronger by what I read)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Ah sweet mother of Moogles... It takes an extra three hours just to roll back a single equation change? O.o;Let's hope they forget to carry the 1 and we end up with 9,999,999 damamge cures. Do you think that 99,999 is the games preset damage limit?

[Midorikaze]

Guess I can watch a movie tonight instead :p

[ShadowHeart]

thats 7 and a half hours update for a cure bomb LMAO .......... of should we say an SE bomb (fail!!).....

[Tommykun]

I think that like with previous FF games, 99,999 is the max allocated in the hex string for damage. FFVIII was the first game able to break the 9,999 limit if I remember right.

But seriously... shouldn't they have the equations written down somewhere so they can just go "Oh, here's the problem... there's a 8 where there should be a 3."

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I think that like with previous FF games, 99,999 is the max allocated in the hex string for damage. FFVIII was the first game able to break the 9,999 limit if I remember right.

But seriously... shouldn't they have the equations written down somewhere so they can just go "Oh, here's the problem... there's a 8 where there should be a 3."Any bets someone did it on purpose to get overtime or somthing or the sort?

[Nawesemo]

Why were they messing with the cure formula in the first place? hmmmmmm.. O.o

[Ninurta2217]

Vital organ transplants don't take this long.

[Tommykun]

Any bets someone did it on purpose to get overtime or somthing or the sort?

I wouldn't doubt it haha. Time's are hard for everyone. Or could have been that a dev -really- didnt want to go home due to his/her spouse wanting to stab him or he/she was desperately afraid of their spouse's cooking and wanted an excuse to order take-out.

[Malacite]

YAY Second emergency maint, another 3 hours... 2 AM...

Yeah screw this, good night.

[Selzak]

Why were they messing with the cure formula in the first place? hmmmmmm.. O.o
They probably weren't, going by history I think their code is just very messy.

[Tommykun]

They probably weren't, going by history I think their code is just very messy.

Good point. The thing is, it really shouldn't be. Spell coding really shouldn't have been messed with according to what I've seen in the patch notes. I just really don't understand how they could have messed it up.

[Earwig]

They must have messed it up big time. What kind of coding errors would result in a 7 and a half hour maintenance?

[Karbuncle]

They probably weren't, going by history I think their code is just very messy.

My guess is they used this to test the new Damage cap. The old Damage cap was 65,000 then it would just roll over (to 0), It would still do the large damage, the chat log would just read out the rolled over number.

They probably used Cures to test the new damage cap of 99,999 and forgot to change it back.

However, Seriously, 7 and a half hours to change it back...?

[Selzak]

Good point. The thing is, it really shouldn't be. Spell coding really shouldn't have been messed with according to what I've seen in the patch notes. I just really don't understand how they could have messed it up.
It's just all way more interconnected (and it seems overly so in FFXI's code) than you would probably think.

It would also make sense that this could take a while to fix if it's some obscure logic error or something that someone made in an unrelated section of the code that found its way into 99,999 damage cures on undead mobs. It could be anything, possibly something really small like a + where a - should be or an 'OR' where and 'AND' should be. It's almost like finding a needle in a haystack except that the needle makes the haystack sing Christmas Carols when it should just be hay. Definitely seems like they should have found it and fixed it a lot quicker though. Probably just forgot to account for something when they were changing whatever it is that they changed.

[Ninurta2217]

It would also make sense that this could take a while to fix if it's some obscure logic error or something that someone made in an unrelated section of the code that found its way into 99,999 damage cures on undead mobs. It could be anything, and it's probably something really small like a + where a - should be or an 'OR' where and 'AND' should be.

If that were the case, a rollback would be more logical would it not? Rollback -> reupdate at a later time-> ??? -> profit.

[Selzak]

If that were the case, a rollback would be more logical would it not? Rollback -> reupdate at a later time-> ??? -> profit.
I suppose, but I'd like to think that they've found the bug by now. Probably just realized that they opened a lot of other potential problems when they sat down and took a look at it. Honestly I can't imagine what would take this long, but eh I doubt they're just trying to keep us from playing.

[Saefinn]

My guess is they used this to test the new Damage cap. The old Damage cap was 65,000 then it would just roll over (to 0), It would still do the large damage, the chat log would just read out the rolled over number.

They probably used Cures to test the new damage cap of 99,999 and forgot to change it back.

However, Seriously, 7 and a half hours to change it back...?

If what you say is true, then my guess would be there's something wrong with the 'Cure as damage' code that became apparent in the extension but wasn't noticed before because it posed no problems. Also, with buggy engine code, what would normally be considered a 'sensible' solution might not work, even if it works in other instances. It wouldn't surprise me, buggy engine code can result in some seemingly illogical errors.


But it's kind of difficult to speculate 'why'. We don't know their code, we don't know why the problem exists, how difficult it is to get to the problem. Or what the solution is and how much work is needed to fix it. What would look like a small problem to us could be a major problem to fix.

[wildsprite]

it would really be better if they implement the test server access for the players so this kinda thing doesn't happen, cause seriously, they waited till what? 2/3 days ago to tell us the update was happening on the 11th...., then after a 2 hour maintenance I get ready to play, me and friends are gathering and we get a 5.5 minute warning....seriously SE? c'mon this is silly and very disappointing

and on top of that it starts off as 4.5 hours...then at the last minute they change it to 7.5 hours? all I can say to this is
"Kitanashia sighs heavily at SE"

[geekgirl101]

Each time you add new bits of code to include new features it opens a new world of possible errors and conflicts. Sometimes it can go pretty bad, like there may be an old line of code somewhere that's hardcoding certain values and if that needs changing it can completely screw things up on a major scale. If the development crew has been shrunk down and certain people responsible for certain lines of code have moved on then it can be very hard to track down any conflicts in the code and work out a solution for it. Writing code is not as easy as you think, not every developer writes code the same way as each other so a different person having to work with someone elses' code to make his work may look at it and go "huh?!!!!" And if the other guy is not available then expect setbacks which could take days, weeks, or even months to fix while having to use "quick" workarounds which are not nearly as efficient and could cause future bugs and even more problems as more code gets added at a later date.

[wildsprite]

I agree, but if it is that big of a problem I agree with what someone else in this thread said why not rollback to before the update then fix the problem and give us the update in a few days or something like that

[Neisan_Quetz]

Does sounds like a communication/Previous person did not leave proper notes issue.

[Madine]

Each time you add new bits of code to include new features it opens a new world of possible errors and conflicts. Sometimes it can go pretty bad, like there may be an old line of code somewhere that's hardcoding certain values and if that needs changing it can completely screw things up on a major scale. If the development crew has been shrunk down and certain people responsible for certain lines of code have moved on then it can be very hard to track down any conflicts in the code and work out a solution for it. Writing code is not as easy as you think, not every developer writes code the same way as each other so a different person having to work with someone elses' code to make his work may look at it and go "huh?!!!!" And if the other guy is not available then expect setbacks which could take days, weeks, or even months to fix while having to use "quick" workarounds which are not nearly as efficient and could cause future bugs and even more problems as more code gets added at a later date.

Pretty much this. There's a reason software engineers jest about adding two bugs for every bug they remove. That reason is *not* incompetence.

[Chrisstreb]

I think part of the reason for this error may have something to do with the PLD update to Divine Emblem, that might've been one of the reason since they did make changes to that. I'm glad I didn't get involved with the whole hey I can one-shot stuff with a Lv.1 Alt., Hopefully they'll fix it right, least we know the damage cap now lol xD

[Alistria]

well I don't know what Code type SE uses, but generaly in this kind of situation it takes loads of "Debugging" just to find the bug. Alot of False to True statements, there's just alot that can affect something "Small" like this. For most people that think it's an easy fix, go try your hand at game programming, skim through hundreds of thousands of lines of code to find one out of place ; or something.

A rollback would make sense, assuming it's not in the main code, or that it's not something that they aren't sure won't happen again later. They're best solution to this kind of thing, as has been said a thousand times now, is a test server so that the code can be tested first, then put in production environment later. . .

Oh yeah and as far as the damage cap, I doubt we'll ever see that, as is fairly evident when you watch a DRK or DRG Brew a monster lol

[Tsukino_Kaji]

A rollback would make senseIt would actualy humor me to see them retract an update completely.

[wildsprite]

It would actualy humor me to see them retract an update completely.
yes but they wont, they would rather add more work to their workload than rollback and fix the update on the test server

[Alistria]

Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen them do it... I wonder if they don't have the capibility

[wildsprite]

yeah might be something to do with the original code that prevents them from doing that, had not thought of that

[Alistria]

If they can't do it it's likely due to lack of Software to do it with, either that or they don't keep regular backups of the DB's

[Nawesemo]

not every developer writes code the same way as each other so a different person having to work with someone elses' code to make his work may look at it and go "huh?!!!!"

I lol'd @ this ;p

[geekgirl101]

I lol'd @ this ;p

My husband does it all the time when he works at home, hehe. He also invents a few new profanity words which maybe one day could end up in the Oxford Dictionary.

[Tagrineth]

It's very possible that during the first maintenance, they tried just fixing the error, and when that didn't work, it became

"Well fuck, four hours isn't long enough for this, we have to rollback and rewrite the update code..."

or something to that effect. Wouldn't surprise me one bit, and it's something that can very easily happen with any codebase, especially one as haphazard as most SE code seems to be.

[Atomic_Skull]

If I had to guess why it's taking so long I'd say it's probably because of spaghetti code.

[Urteil]

Today is undeniable proof of incompetence, can we have the FFXIV team please.


I'm sure they could do that game, and this one on the side.

[Malacite]

Today is undeniable proof of incompetence, can we have the FFXIV team please.


I'm sure they could do that game, and this one on the side.


Right, because they did SUCH a great job at launch...


Honestly, sit down and stop QQ. Yeah, I'm pissed too but it's one evening - get over it. This always happens every time they do an update, random stuff get broken. This is nothing compared to back in 2007 or 2008 I think it was, where they did 8 days of 8+ emergency maintenances - not that long after the 2 handed weapon fixes IIRC.

THAT was obscene, and those guys aren't working on this game anymore.

[Helel]

The FFXIV team lol? Are you joking? FFXI would die in a week.

[Elexia]

The FFXIV team lol? Are you joking? FFXI would die in a week.

Yeah lol, shame that the management for the initial cycle was the same people behind XI.

Wouldn't that be a paradox?

[Darkneku]

Today is undeniable proof of incompetence, can we have the FFXIV team please.


I'm sure they could do that game, and this one on the side.

This post just made my day. Seriously.

[geekgirl101]

[Date & Time]
Jul. 12, 2011 22:30 to 06:00 GMT

Running a bit late aren't we?

[Johnblaze]

Someone messed up on translation... still another 37 mins... SE really needs to get their act together.

EDIT: JP POL site says 16:00 JST = 12:00am PDT = 3:00am EDT

http://www.playonline.com/ff11/polnews/news20900.shtml

[Xandur]

The JP site shows that its going until 16:00, which translates to 4pm japanese time, midnight PST time.... They never updated our playonline.com site so we are left in the dark...

[CaelThunderwing]

Nice going SE -__- but this is just par for the course.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

+30 and still no mention of an another extention.

[CaelThunderwing]

Tsukino_Kaji love this Sig but theres two tumors that hold xi back. PS2 AND 360they can go only so far before Massivly degrading waht shiity performance it has allready. XI cant be a Game it has the Full potential to unless it becomes PC only.

[Tagrineth]

+30 and still no mention of an another extention.

See the above posts.

And WRT the FFXIV team: Yes, they WERE the old XI team. You know, back when XI was declining badly. Before the new dev team accidentally Abyssea.

[Alhanelem]

edit: this was a response to a post that was really far back.

[sruon]

See the above posts.

And WRT the FFXIV team: Yes, they WERE the old XI team. You know, back when XI was declining badly. Before the new dev team accidentally Abyssea.

only thing that changed is the head, still same people bro

besides, FFXI is declining badly (see today's update)

[Reshi]

Gahhhhhhh 37min past supposed maint ending and still nothing :3

[Harukusan]

SE officially broke the game and have no idea how to change it back to unscrewed.

[Raxiaz]

I, for one, am displeased that they haven't given an extension notice, 40 minutes past scheduled end time...

[Zatias]

There was a translation error; the end of maintenance was 1hr later than it actually stated :/ like people have said last page lol.

[Xandur]

I, for one, am displeased that they haven't given an extension notice, 40 minutes past scheduled end time...

Were not actually passed the scheduled end time. They screwed up and put 23:00 PDT when its actually midnight PDT, check and convert the JP site and you will see.

[Nakts]

it's because they don't have daylight savings time

[Kraggy]

Cures 1-6 were doing 99.999 dmg to undead type mobs
Pity the 'new' SE didn't bring a 'new' QA department with them .. HTF did this bug get into the game and out the door without being found?

Also, how the hell is it taking 9 hours or so to fix? Something else went badly wrong methinks.

[Raucent]

aye, it would be nice to see some response for this long maintenance it starting to feel like a server merge maint with the lack of play lol

[Helsveinn]

The EU site says 6:00 GMT. I assure you that time has already passed..
.. a double mistranslation (EU and NA)? What are the odds?..

This is a pretty big goof up.. and a very pissing one too since the maintenance is now over 8.5 hrs... That's very different from the original 3.5 hours..

I expect some pretty big compensation for this bullsht.

[Xandur]

The EU site says 6:00 GMT. I assure you that time has already passed..
.. a double mistranslation (EU and NA)? What are the odds?..

This is a pretty big goof up.. and a very pissing one too since the maintenance is now over 8.5 hrs... That's very different from the original 3.5 hours..

I expect some pretty big compensation for this bullsht.

Good luck with the compensation!

[Arlan]

The Games Back on!
Wooot!

[SMD111]

i have to agree that the update was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7PfvN8xWR4

[Arlan]

Wooooooooooot!
Woooooooooot!
Woooooooot!

Naw I'm just messing! =) hehe.
Still not on yet.

[Calexis]

Isn't working for me yet...; ;

[Calexis]

I just wanted to play before I sleep...not gonna happen. Goodnight everyone:)

[CaelThunderwing]

got a good point to the one who posted it a few mins ago.. 9+hours? they could easily revert changes furth test and play -test it on atmos.. FOR CHRIST SAKES!! thats what Atmos Server's for!! something more serious than the whm god-mode went wrong.

[Xandur]

There's a site update now about the bugs! But still no gameplay... Should be up within minutes now!

[SMD111]

not yet (at least thats what playonline.com sez) give them some time

[ScorpiusMaximus]

17:10 here, Melb, Australia and 12 hrs after maint/update, still no game. WTH does it take to get the tiniest bit of info from SE. I came back to this game expexting to "pay to play", not "pay to play with myself"!! And we all thought XIV was broke!! ffs!!


On the other hand tho, ida loved to have been the one to get to uber-kill an NM and get drops... woulda been a nice change to my usual shitty luck in this game...lol

[Dragoy]

~sigh~


As has been mentioned before, it is very easy to break something seemingly totally un-related and it usually is not easy to 'just-fix-it' no matter how simple it may seem to you being "just the amount cure deals damage". Things don't work like that under the hood. ^^;

Nor can they really test each and every aspect of the game before every update goes live so this kind of breakage can, and will happen. They don't have the resources to have everything fool-proof or we would have a lot, LOT more down-time. That said, the test-server should help with this, though, and I have actually always been wondering why they did not use the players to test them years ago already (that is to say BEFORE the update was implemented hrhr).

What comes to the extended maintenance time... again, remember that they don't actually have a huge team working around the clock. I'm actually rather impressed how LITTLE we have had down-time during the 5 or so years I've been around.

So in spite of all this thread I say to them: Good job!

They also delivered a lot of interesting tweaks and additions this time, even if it was small in terms of an update, I like it and was very interested to see the changed, and I am happy about them.

So I'll also say: Thank you!

I can imagine how bad they feel about this inconvenience and I'd say they shouldn't!
Take your time even if it were to be days; fixing things in haste is the last thing you want them to do, I can guarantee that. :]

You'll all get your FFXI-fix later or sooner.


Obviously I'm not claiming to know for certain how things work for them, so these are just my thoughts. But really, things aren't so easy as you might think and being pissed off at them wont heighten their morale nor increase their motivation in bringing you your above-mentioned fix years after years.

I'm only sad I couldn't slap Xibablba with such a force. Well, I can always hope many other players did! I hate that thing, with a passion.


In conclusion: Have some appreciation. ^^
Blubb!


Edit:

Oh, now it's up. Obviously they were waiting for me to wake up. ^^

[Tommykun]

Hmm... You would think there would be some kind of update about the maintenance extension.

[Naria]

1st time in weeks I feel like exping, and the game is in maintenance all evening. Sounds about right.

[Helsveinn]

Going to fking bed. No point in wasting good time waiting for SE's slow arse to fix something that wasn't thoroughly tested before releasing to the public.

I'll check back tomorrow to see how long the maintenance really was... Looks like they've posted a bug fix post but the servers are still shutdown...

I'm sure most of the population is asleep now and there's no point in playing the game at this hr..

Good night.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

+1:14, maybe they meant 23:00 tomorrow? >.<

[Ironside]

It's up now.

[CaelThunderwing]

Game is online

[Helsveinn]

~sigh~


As has been mentioned before, it is very easy to break something seemingly totally un-related and it usually is not easy to 'just-fix-it' no matter how simple it may seem to you being "just the amount cure deals damage". Things don't work like that under the hood. ^^;

Nor can they really test each and every aspect of the game before every update goes live so this kind of breakage can, and will happen. They don't have the resources to have everything fool-proof or we would have a lot, LOT more down-time. That said, the test-server should help with this, though, and I have actually always been wondering why they did not use the players to test them years ago already (that is to say BEFORE the update was implemented hrhr).

What comes to the extended maintenance time... again, remember that they don't actually have a huge team working around the clock. I'm actually rather impressed how LITTLE we have had down-time during the 5 or so years I've been around.

So in spite of all this thread I say to them: Good job!

I can imagine how bad they feel about this inconvenience and I'd say they shouldn't!
Take your time even if it were to become days; fixing things in haste is the last thing you want them to do, I assure you. :]

You'll all get your FFXI-fix later or sooner.


Obviously I'm not claiming to know for certain how things work for them, so these are just my thoughts. But really, things aren't so easy as you might think and being pissed off at them wont heighten their morale nor increase their motivation in bringing you your above-mentioned fix years after years.


Have some appreciation. :/

Blubb!

I would be more understanding and supportive of your cause if SE would continue to update the extension after ETA has passed. At this point, it's just unprofessional and out of hand. Please notify your customers when you fail to meet a deadline. It's a common courtesy to do so in any sort of business...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's up now.Indeed.

Superfluous text.

[ScorpiusMaximus]

17:15!! YAY!!

[SMD111]

I can imagine how bad they feel about this inconvenience and I'd say they shouldn't!
Take your time even if it were to become days; fixing things in haste is the last thing you want them to do, I assure you. :]
Here Here



Hmm... You would think there would be some kind of update about the maintenance extension.
it would be nice but who knows maby the site dev is already at home

[Dragoy]

I would be more understanding and supportive of your cause if SE would continue to update the extension after ETA has passed. At this point, it's just unprofessional and out of hand. Please notify your customers when you fail to meet a deadline. It's a common courtesy to do so in any sort of business...
Yeah, I know and it's expected customers would be pissed off, really.

And I do agree, that they should have updated the estimation way sooner, preferably PAST their expectations so that the players wouldn't be waiting for naught.

That, and getting the translations right would help haha!

But it's more or less the lack of staff that caused this as well, I would guess. I'd still say they're doing a good job, and unexpected happen and if/when it happens when not so many people are available, it can be a disaster what comes to fixing it asap. Though, if I had to play the guessing game even more, I'd easily imagine people being called from bed to work on this.

Imagine your favourite community representative moogles flying all over the place in distress. Not that they're there, but just imagine it, dang it!


Anyhoo, it is up as noted. We shall see if it stands. :]

[geekgirl101]

((claps)) nice work SE, eager to see these new changes. :)

[OMEGA_HACK]

eh...was on COR earlier, not happy about the update for them, way to fail SE...

Maybe PLD will be 'wanted' idk, really wish they would show some love to DRG and unlink Jump abilities like they have now done with NIN abilities, but I know DRG is like the red-headed step child of SE HQ.

[noodles355]

Waiting a whole day for FFXI? Wow that sucks. Imagine if you had to wait just under 2 months. I can tell you first hand that it sucks. Luckilly i only have another 5 hours of updates to wait for. Too bad it's 8:40PM and I wont be able to play tonight.

[Octaviane]

So....SE stuffed up big time not only with the bug (plus could have been others), but with an error in translation and lack of communication.

Look how many people rushed to take advantage of the bug before it was found and fixed. At least one person has been banned already.

17 pages of responses in this thread so far. I guess what I am saying is, chill out. It's not the end of the world that you can't play for several hours. You should all know by now that any Update will be followed by Emergency Maintenance. Plan accordingly and don't bother updating for at least 12-24 hours. The NM's will still be there as will eveything else, just like the sun rises every day.

You can only speculate on why Emergency maintenance took so long. Cursing SE up one side and down the other isn't going to make it any different. It just raises your BP and RF. (Blood Pressure and Rage Factor). Think about how they might be viewing some of your responses................

The sad thing is that SE's competition is more than likely laughing their socks off right now at this fail. I believe that FFXI has barely a skeleton crew available at any given time and is running on empty coffers thanks to FF14, the earthquake and some pretty poor management.

Perhaps a better solution than rushing in to appease the masses and address all the demands for everything from A-Z would have been to push back the roadmap a couple more months to make sure that everything could be properly tested before releasing the various updates. We would still have bugs and maintenance, it seems to be SE's way, just perhaps not as bad as this.

SE does need to improve on it's communication skills, that is a given. Unfortunately they appear to operate like a Secret Society with the player base as Rank and File to be fed snippets of information only as and when the need arises.

Still and all, the amount of actual downtime we have had over the years many of us have played is small. Just don't get so bent out of shape about it. There's a real world out there beyond the doors of FFXI, get out and enjoy it while you can. There are also many other games you can play, just so happens that despite it's many problems, FFXI is still the best out there, you all rush right back here, so quit bitching. :)

[Runespider]

Look how many people rushed to take advantage of the bug before it was found and fixed. At least one person has been banned already.

I doubt anyone was actually banned for this, or that they even bothered to roll back people that abused it.

[Tagrineth]

eh...was on COR earlier, not happy about the update for them, way to fail SE...

Maybe PLD will be 'wanted' idk, really wish they would show some love to DRG and unlink Jump abilities like they have now done with NIN abilities, but I know DRG is like the red-headed step child of SE HQ.

Honestly? Soul and Spirit Jump are ridiculous enough on their own. I completely do not mind losing access to Jump and High Jump for them.

[ShadowHeart]

cant think of any super benefit anyone could get from it that would upset game balance.... few people get a few easy levels (abyssea does that anyways) maybe spam a few xilbaba ... (get a few quick seals) which wont affect a lot not like he dropping empy weapons or +2 items

mind u i suppose they could of hit up titl... in attowha but time they would of farmed pops they maint would been up

[xbobx]

I see a lot of people defend SE but there is a test server, yet they never test their patches. It is the most standard thing to do when you change code is to test things. SE always lets obvious things go unnoticed until we play. Maybe they should cut the monthly rate by 50% on patch months since we have to do their patch testing for them.

Use your test servers morons, that is what they are there for.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Checking cure damage on an undead mob is hardly what I would call first in line of things to test each and every update.

[Kraggy]

Checking cure damage on an undead mob is hardly what I would call first in line of things to test each and every update.
In professional software development it's called regression testing, SE could perhaps learn about it.

[Dragoy]

I see a lot of people defend SE but there is a test server, yet they never test their patches. It is the most standard thing to do when you change code is to test things. SE always lets obvious things go unnoticed until we play. Maybe they should cut the monthly rate by 50% on patch months since we have to do their patch testing for them.

Use your test servers morons, that is what they are there for.
One might inquire what base you this statement on. I mean the one that they do not test things?

For one, the server can be seen on-line at times, and there is now a forum section telling you what they are currently testing even.

Seriously, those who keep telling SqEX what to do, if you're so confident you could do it better, oh, I say goferit! I do understand the frustration and annoyance over such inconveniences, but what do people imagine they could ever gain from plain rage against the machine... I just don't get it. :S


Luckily, I do not need to! \ö/

[xbobx]

You want proof? When they added level sync automations would disappear when you sync. So they had a specific patch to fix the problem. Servers came up. Level sync, automation disappeared. Later they patched it again, in patch notes it said to fix problem with automations disappearing when you level sync.
After patch, level sycn, automations disappeared.

Now if you did a specific patch to fix that problem, wouldn't you go onto test server, get a puppet, and another job, and level sync. That had to be one of the easiest patch tests. So they didn't just no test it once, they didn't test it twice.

So no, They do not test their patches, we have seen this over the past 10 years, very obvious things that woudl have took seconds to test directly related to the patch they have implemented and would have pointed out issues. I can't see how anyone can think they properly test their patches. How ignorant are some of you?
And the argument that if you think you can do better, then go ahead. That is such a dumb argument. These guys are programmers, it is their job, of course I couldn't do it, because I am an accountant. But I am expected to balance the books, if don't do my job I don't have a job. Most if not every programmer will tell you that testing is standard. You never release live code without testing it, if you do, you find yourself looking for another job.
Se keeps doing this, why? Because their fanboys keep letting them get away with it. maybe if some of you take your heads of of your butt and say it is not acceptable, maybe they would properly test.
And don't say they are short in staff so they can't give the same quality of service, because if this is true, then we shouldn't be paying for the same quality of service we got 8 years ago. We should pay for what we get, if they are runnign a skeleton crew with no intention of putting in any real effort then the monthly fee should be dropped to 6.99

[Neisan_Quetz]

In professional software development it's called regression testing, SE could perhaps learn about it.

You forgot to mention the regression testing is (most likely) automated and during throrough regression testing is costly as they have to run the entire gauntlet of test cases previously run against the system.

[Nawesemo]

Wait s minute, your suggesting they write the code and push it out with out testing to se
e if the code worked? Hummmmmm.

[Korpg]

anyone noticed that before the e-maint mobs, when stunned while using a TP move, would still have TP?

I have since noticed that they fixed that too since the e-maint.

[Kimble]

eh...was on COR earlier, not happy about the update for them, way to fail SE...

Maybe PLD will be 'wanted' idk, really wish they would show some love to DRG and unlink Jump abilities like they have now done with NIN abilities, but I know DRG is like the red-headed step child of SE HQ.

PLD has been wanted again since voidwatch came out so no idea what you are talking about.

the COR update is not as bad as you all make it out to be.

[OMEGA_HACK]

well the COR update is bad considering they opened the floor to suggestions and stated they wanted "The XI effect to give a bonus to COR and his party members" If you look back on those threads there were plenty of reasonable suggestions that far out par what they just did to the job, not to mention this really don't give a bonus to the other party members at all, meaning they still won't be wanted for anything other than Wildfire brews.

And I put the 'wanted' like so because I still find them very useful, but for some reason a lot of people say the job is worthless and that NIN/DNC/THF > PLD (which isn't true at all)

And yeah this was a pretty pathetic update, waste of resources and time if you ask me, oh and what's with the SAM ability that clearly rips off Dancers everywhere? Good job SE...

[Dragen]

I bolded it for you, in case you missed it the first time.

Windower and windowed are not the same thing. I guess you mistakenly put windower when you meant to put windowed the first time. ;3

[Ravenmore]

well the COR update is bad considering they opened the floor to suggestions and stated they wanted "The XI effect to give a bonus to COR and his party members" If you look back on those threads there were plenty of reasonable suggestions that far out par what they just did to the job, not to mention this really don't give a bonus to the other party members at all, meaning they still won't be wanted for anything other than Wildfire brews.

And I put the 'wanted' like so because I still find them very useful, but for some reason a lot of people say the job is worthless and that NIN/DNC/THF > PLD (which isn't true at all)

And yeah this was a pretty pathetic update, waste of resources and time if you ask me, oh and what's with the SAM ability that clearly rips off Dancers everywhere? Good job SE...

If content keeps moving away from abyssea, which it is pld cor and brd will come back in to play at endgame. Do they get auto-invites to exp anymore not really but are they turned away from exp no. You didn't see cor outside of exp much back at 75 except in fights that a) you need 2hours reset b) events with waves of targets were the attack boost, DA, and more refresh for the mages were needed. Once Voidwatch starts getting gear most of the player base wants then you'll see brd and cor come back in since we won't have the 15 tic auto refresh for mages.

[Kimble]

COR and PLD are great inside Voidwatch. Anyone who is saying NIN, DNC, THF are better tanks in Voidwatch havent done it.

Cor does great dmg in there with wildfire as well as giving great buffs.

Plus, you really need to be objective and realize this was only a MINI update. If this was MAJOR update then yes, it would be lackluster. Or would you rather you have to go back to the way it was before and wait 3-4 months for minor changes?

[Cream_Soda]

Windower and windowed are not the same thing. I guess you mistakenly put windower when you meant to put windowed the first time. ;3
No, I meant what i said, no mistake
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/1693/detail.html


Sokaku was very excited to report one of the most exciting announcements made during the summit:
Quick Trip Reveals Official Windower! (http://ffo.warcry.com/scripts/news/view_news.phtml?site=21&id=69259)

If "official windower" is good enough to be linked from SE's own site, then it's good enough for me.

[Dragoy]

You want proof? When they added level sync automations would disappear when you sync. So they had a specific patch to fix the problem. Servers came up. Level sync, automation disappeared. Later they patched it again, in patch notes it said to fix problem with automations disappearing when you level sync.
After patch, level sycn, automations disappeared.

Now if you did a specific patch to fix that problem, wouldn't you go onto test server, get a puppet, and another job, and level sync. That had to be one of the easiest patch tests. So they didn't just no test it once, they didn't test it twice.

So no, They do not test their patches, we have seen this over the past 10 years, very obvious things that woudl have took seconds to test directly related to the patch they have implemented and would have pointed out issues. I can't see how anyone can think they properly test their patches. How ignorant are some of you?

Things don't always work exactly as you intend them to, even if you try them with a test-environment, unexpected things happen when you toss it all together, human-errors happen, and so on and on.

I just can't see it not happening. It would be amazingly ludicrous to implement new code without any testing, absolute terror even! Just like you say: "You never release live code without testing it, if you do, you find yourself looking for another job."
Obviously I can't say for sure since I do not work for them, so my guess is as good as yours is in the end, and I don't think I am being any more ignorant than you are.


And the argument that if you think you can do better, then go ahead. That is such a dumb argument.

Never meant that as an argument, don't take it so seriously. ^^;



And don't say they are short in staff so they can't give the same quality of service, because if this is true, then we shouldn't be paying for the same quality of service we got 8 years ago. We should pay for what we get, if they are runnign a skeleton crew with no intention of putting in any real effort then the monthly fee should be dropped to 6.99

OK I wont say that, but I will say that you should not pay them at all, if you really are so utterly disappointed. I hope you're at least enjoying the game, when you are able to play it.
I would certainly enjoy a lower price, but would we still be able to receive the service we do now. Now there's a thought, no?


I thank thee for elaborating!