View Full Version : A Summoners Bag of tricks
Neonii
07-12-2011, 02:44 AM
I was wondering if the long time summoners out there would like to share some of their tricks of the trade. For example, if you are planning to solo a mob in abyssea what do you do for procs? If you want to cover all the procs how do you handle that? What are some of the more uncommon things that work for you. I just wanted to make a topic where we can focus on networking with each other. I would like this one to stay positive and us not rain on a persons parade. One of the things I and I'm sure most smn do is get the light spirit to buff me if I'm Planning to solo something. Another thing I like to do is use Burning Circles to try out stuff. Anyone else care to share?
Zanoza
07-12-2011, 03:21 AM
summon avatar > assult target > BP > run to safe distance till aavatar dies > then repeat. this is for NM's and normal mobs if staff skill is to low to hit. for normal mobs inside or outside of aby. Avatar Tank Spirit Taker is your friend. for mage mobs that use -GA's run out of range while avatar takes the hit resummon if needed. For procing on NM's unless you are going for blu proc you dont proc at all, But if you want gear from an aby NM best thing to do is wait till blunt time (22:00-08:00) and hope its staff, if you have staff to 250+.
Tannlore
07-12-2011, 03:44 AM
This is not for soloing btw:
Smn Bag-o-trick # 387
Yellow procs: Spirits can proc yellow! Lots of people don't know this, but it is true. I've done this a lot myself. It is by far not easy and hard. But when all else fails and you're left with nothing else, it's better than nothing. It takes a fair bit of smn skill and the gear to cet your spirit to cast often, and remember that your spirit casts what it wants. But it will cast T3, T4, and AM. That's three potential procs there.
SMN Bag-o-trick #1245
Tricking your light spirit into buffing you: Once your light spirit is into it's casting mode you can trick it into buffing you if your skill is at a certain level. I'm not sure what that level is exactly, I learned how to do this myself back when my skill was capped at 75. I put pro/shell 1 on myself, summoned my light spirit. Once it cast it's first spell (usually regen) I clicked off protect... the next spell it almost always cast on me was protect IV because the AI saw it "wore" off, I did this with Shell next and it cast shell IV. I played this game once before Einherjar once. Did it with a light spirit for about twenty minutes and accurately predicted it's buff cycle with this method of canceling it's buffs. I haven't tried this in a very long time. Interested to see if it still works. I should give this a shot again and see.
I have lots more, but I have to think about them lol will post more as they come to mind.
Dallas
07-12-2011, 03:51 AM
Regain is 3 to 5 times as effective as refresh.
Razushu
07-12-2011, 04:24 AM
Regain is 3 to 5 times as effective as refresh.
Now now lets not start the MP argument again, no one with decent gear will have any problem with MP ever
Neonii
07-12-2011, 07:45 AM
Now now lets not start the MP argument again, no one with decent gear will have any problem with MP ever
I am going to try it out and see how it fits into my personal playing style. I hope folks sharing here are not going to have their parade rained on. Maybe I need a big umbrella cause I plan to explore anything posted that I find interesting. I need to save up some Abyssea stones so I have plenty of time for exploration.
Razushu
07-12-2011, 08:11 AM
I am going to try it out and see how it fits into my personal playing style. I hope folks sharing here are not going to have their parade rained on. Maybe I need a big umbrella cause I plan to explore anything posted that I find interesting. I need to save up some Abyssea stones so I have plenty of time for exploration.
SMN melee has applications in places like most playstyles, but I'd avoid listening to Dallas he's full of Dhalmel dung. There's one or two reasonable advocates of SMN melee out there that can give you advice on it(like Alhanelem) who will hopefully stumble upon this thread sooner or later. Dallas does nothing but make wild claims, throw the word gimp around if you disagree and will refuse to post any data or evidence to support his claims.
Sorry if I looked like I was raining on anyone's parade not what I was trying to do, I was just pointing out(a discussion I thought had been settled ages ago) that longevity is not a plus point of SMN melee as if your gear is in any way decent at 90 you should have unlimited MP frontline or backline.
examples of Dallas claims:
An Empyrean SMN can match an empyrean WAR
He discovered Atma of the Ducal Guard
He's the reason SMN was #10 in the census this year
Dallas
07-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Now now lets not start the MP argument again, no one with decent gear will have any problem with MP ever
If by decent gear you mean Hvergelmir and the WOTG regain earring, you are correct.
The OP did ask for tricks, and trolling me isn't much of a trick. Post your refresh gear that recovers that MP.
Arciel
07-12-2011, 03:21 PM
This is not for soloing btw:
Smn Bag-o-trick # 387
Yellow procs: Spirits can proc yellow! Lots of people don't know this, but it is true. I've done this a lot myself. It is by far not easy and hard. But when all else fails and you're left with nothing else, it's better than nothing. It takes a fair bit of smn skill and the gear to cet your spirit to cast often, and remember that your spirit casts what it wants. But it will cast T3, T4, and AM. That's three potential procs there.
SMN Bag-o-trick #1245
Tricking your light spirit into buffing you: Once your light spirit is into it's casting mode you can trick it into buffing you if your skill is at a certain level. I'm not sure what that level is exactly, I learned how to do this myself back when my skill was capped at 75. I put pro/shell 1 on myself, summoned my light spirit. Once it cast it's first spell (usually regen) I clicked off protect... the next spell it almost always cast on me was protect IV because the AI saw it "wore" off, I did this with Shell next and it cast shell IV. I played this game once before Einherjar once. Did it with a light spirit for about twenty minutes and accurately predicted it's buff cycle with this method of canceling it's buffs. I haven't tried this in a very long time. Interested to see if it still works. I should give this a shot again and see.
I have lots more, but I have to think about them lol will post more as they come to mind.
To be exact, elemental spirits only have 2 spells they can proc each. tier IV and AM. They no longer cast tier III the moment they have access to IV (which is true for all elemental wheel spirits by 75). At our level, Elemental Spirits only have 3-5 spells in their repertoire, depending on the element, with Thunder and Fire being the best in terms of getting a T4 or nuke because thats 2/3s of what they can cast.
Light Spirit can do Holy and Flash too but its rather unreliable because its repertoire is slightly bigger.
Dark Spirit, I wouldn't bother with that at all for proccing - too random.
Using Light Spirit to buff is a useful tool. Have it face you for higher chances of it buffing you. Cast regen and haste on yourself to increase the chances of it casting Prot and Shell.
...
Other random tricks.
You can always use avatar's defense instinct to your advantage. Avatars always automatically attack a monster that has you at the top of its hate list (unless it's already attacking something else), so keep your avatar out when you pop or clain NMs for safety.
If you're using SMN to fight for claim, your best claim tool is you + your avatar. NEVER use Assault, because it is too slow and by itself generates 0 hate.
Hate is important in getting claim, and if you're able to get 1 move as a SMN on the mob/NM, use a BP:Rage. Any will do, but preferably the strongest you have.
Here's how it works - NM pops, you use BP:Rage on it, it generates hate. If others take an action on it as well, there may be what i call 'hate dispute' and the mob will still remain yellow for a while. If someone else can claim it with a high hate move, then maybe they've got the mob for good, but if not, the beauty of BP:Rage is that the initial Rage is there to create a 'hate dispute' and your avatars Rage pact, which should do a good amount of damage, will solidify hate resulting in you getting claim.
I've managed to do this many times without fail, and really I think most jobs cannot compete with the kind of hate a BP can pull unless they claim with like EES or something that can instantly generate very high VE.
...
In Abyssea, if you're with a group and could use a hand on procs, then SMN is able to provide decently for staff and club, but you'll need to have /WHM, which is usually the case inside Abyssea for me. Whilst you won't be able to do your max potential on damage, picking a slightly balanced setup of atmas will help you boost efficacy... In these situations I'd prefer to go with AoA, MM and either VV or Sea Daughter, depending how badly you need TP regeneration.
AoA is both for death-protection (especially when you run into range for proc) and the triple attack for physical BPs, which will spike your damage up a little.
MM for your MP needs - also slightly useful for nuke BPs.
VV or SD for regain, mainly so you can have enough TP to proc the mobs. This TP can also be used to give avatar nuke BPs a slight boost as well.
Speaking of TP, a lot of people seem to overlook this, but Mana Cede can be used defensively to boost avatar's healing pacts because they rely on TP.
And if you're using physical BP for damage and need to heal using pact, do be mindful to BP first (for the significant TP gain, more so with Garuda than Leviathan) before using your healing pact.
...
more very basic stuff.
if you're trying to claim a sneak-aggro mob amongst other sneak aggro mobs, feel free to do so with avatar because assault doesn't generate hate, so only invis drops. (BSTs have it lucky, doesn't even drop invis)
for carby pulling, if you have a bunch of mobs that will link along the way back from the pull site, you must be mindful to link them BEFORE your avatar dies or is dismissed, otherwise they will link on you instead. You can do this by retreating before dismissing. Also, when you're pulling a mob that can cast spells, make sure it follows and isn't casting when you do the retreat / dismiss thing, otherwise you'l end up linking to yourself too.
Technically this applies to BST and PUP pulling as well.
Razushu
07-12-2011, 06:37 PM
If by decent gear you mean Hvergelmir and the WOTG regain earring, you are correct.
The OP did ask for tricks, and trolling me isn't much of a trick. Post your refresh gear that recovers that MP.
Well here we go again you troll. I don't need to post gear the math backs me up here. If you get enough -perp to negate perpetuation(thats 12 in the case of a celestial inlcuding +2 auto refresh) cost you get a return of 280MP saved per minute. Id you add another -1 perp you start getting MP back so that's another +20MP returned per minute and after that another +20MP pm for any more +refresh. With the game as it stands today any SMN can attain a perp/refresh set enough to get +2 MP per tick back a minute with avatars out which is a net return of 320MP per minute, before siphon, refresh etc. there's more refresh gear out there to a max of around +7mp per tick.
Let's not rehash a fulblown argument of which style gives the most MP back as both styles give more than you can ever use, when it's a case of more MP than you could ever use vs. extra more than you could ever use the point of which gives more is invalid. I aqgree with you the moonshade is a great idle refresh piece and am working on it atm. Now lets please drop this and let the thread get back on track
Neonii
07-12-2011, 07:25 PM
Zetonegi once posted Dawn Mulsum would heal our pets and it works like a charm. In fact it inspired me to finish leveling cooking. Guys can we please hold on the debate? I appreciate differing points of view but I'm more interested in folks posting their gems. Then individually we can judge the merits of those suggestions for ourselves. So please don't derail.
Razushu
07-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Zetonegi once posted Dawn Mulsum would heal our pets and it works like a charm. In fact it inspired me to finish leveling cooking. Guys can we please hold on the debate? I appreciate differing points of view but I'm more interested in folks posting their gems. Then individually we can judge the merits of those suggestions for ourselves. So please don't derail.
My apologies I wasn't trying to derail. It's true that the decision is yours alone, I was just pointing out a false claim. I gave him what he asked for and asked that he leave the debate alone as it's settled. I'll have to finish cooking and get Alchemy up too now carrying around 3-4 Dawn mulsums would be nice in case of emergencies.
Arciel
07-13-2011, 03:58 AM
I think Dawn Mulsum is useful, because its the only item that you can use anywhere that recovers pet HP, but its also a very limited usefulness, because in a majority of situations where you'll be using SMN and tanking with avatar, or something to that extent, you'd be predisposed to having the avatar die and summoning a new one already.
In effect, unless your strat is specifically tailored to use Dawn Mulsum to begin with, you don't have much of a need to. I'd say its most useful in certain BC fights.
Razushu
07-13-2011, 05:17 AM
I think Dawn Mulsum is useful, because its the only item that you can use anywhere that recovers pet HP, but its also a very limited usefulness, because in a majority of situations where you'll be using SMN and tanking with avatar, or something to that extent, you'd be predisposed to having the avatar die and summoning a new one already.
In effect, unless your strat is specifically tailored to use Dawn Mulsum to begin with, you don't have much of a need to. I'd say its most useful in certain BC fights.
It's also nice for those oh shi.... moments when a pets HP gets dropped really low and a mob starts a heavy TP move and you don't have enough time to run out to a safe distance
Korpg
07-13-2011, 05:33 AM
I was wondering if the long time summoners out there would like to share some of their tricks of the trade. For example, if you are planning to solo a mob in abyssea what do you do for procs? If you want to cover all the procs how do you handle that? What are some of the more uncommon things that work for you. I just wanted to make a topic where we can focus on networking with each other. I would like this one to stay positive and us not rain on a persons parade. One of the things I and I'm sure most smn do is get the light spirit to buff me if I'm Planning to solo something. Another thing I like to do is use Burning Circles to try out stuff. Anyone else care to share?
Summoner is by far the safest way to solo in Abyssea. BST can get the job done much faster, but at a greater risk if their pet dies prematurely. DNC and THF also can get the job done granted that they can effectively shadowtank it, but a lucky break on the mob means a free NM to anyone wishing to pop/claim it. SMN doesn't even have to be in AoE range in order to do outstanding damage and they have unlimited disposable pets, including the fact that some NMs have only one element and therefor can not defeat the avatar of the stronger element (example: Sedna and Ramuh).
Ignore the extremeness viewpoints of Dallas, he is just a known troll here who advocates that he discovered the earth is round centuries before Columbus.
Dallas
07-13-2011, 03:12 PM
There's nothing extreme about what I do. Take away the better gear, the faster damage, the better mp recovery, and the desire to be useful for more than a few select battles, and my SMN looks
just
like
yours.
Razushu
07-13-2011, 04:52 PM
There's nothing extreme about what I do. Take away the better gear, the faster damage, the better mp recovery, and the desire to be useful for more than a few select battles, and my SMN looks
just
like
yours.
Dude you were asked to leave the debate and only post here if you had an actual contribution, don't derail this.
Dallas
07-13-2011, 06:15 PM
I'm sorry Razushu of Fenrir, Master of the 700 damage Full Swing. I laughed at your last dozen demands. You just aren't that funny anymore.
Sargent
07-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Back on topic.... It's been said before...
Crit/MAB Atmas > Refresh atmas.
Someone asked for the list of refresh gear:
Owleyes (Idle only)
Oneiros Grip
Caller's Horn +2
Moonshade Earring
YYR/Pluviale/Dalm/Marduk Body (Idle only)
Full Serpentes (Idle only)
Stearc Subligar
With Horn+2, Moonshade, Stearc and capped Perp, you should be getting +5/tick with Garuda, Shiva etc out.
Razushu
07-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Back on topic.... It's been said before...
Crit/MAB Atmas > Refresh atmas.
Someone asked for the list of refresh gear:
Owleyes (Idle only)
Caller's Horn +2
Moonshade Earring
YYR/Pluviale/Dalm/Marduk Body (Idle only)
Full Serpentes (Idle only)
Stearc Subligar
With Horn+2, Moonshade, Stearc and capped Perp, you should be getting +5/tick with Garuda, Shiva etc out.
Yeah I stopped using Refresh atmas for NM soloing etc. MP isn't an issue any more especially inside Abyssea even without refresh atmas temp items, current gearset and siphon sublimation/refresh(spell) are more than enough to go indefinitely
Dallas
07-13-2011, 07:19 PM
With Horn+2, Moonshade, Stearc and capped Perp, you should be getting +5/tick with Garuda, Shiva etc out.
That is the list that needed to be posted. Put a big "WARNING: needs a minimum of one magian staff to work" on that please.
For Myrkr + TP earring, to match +5/tick, a melee SMN needs to generate:
300% TP / ((1800MP * 60%) / (+5/tick * 20 ticks)) = 28% TP per minute.
The TP earring generates 20% TP per minute, so a melee SMN only needs to successfully hit once per minute to surpass magian staves build. A SMN/SAM generates the equivalent of +7/tick idle.
Razushu
07-13-2011, 07:40 PM
That is the list that needed to be posted. Put a big "WARNING: needs a minimum of one magian staff to work" on that please.
For Myrkr + TP earring, to match +5/tick, a melee SMN needs to generate:
300% TP / ((1800MP * 60%) / (+5/tick * 20 ticks)) = 28% TP per minute.
The TP earring generates 20% TP per minute, so a melee SMN only needs to successfully hit once per minute to surpass magian staves build. A SMN/SAM generates the equivalent of +7/tick idle.
By that logic yours will need a needs Hvergelmir, but then not everyone needs the obvious pointed out. Although Nash gages, Caller's doublet & pigaches +2 with a Fay crozier will is another way to go rather than +1s(which most have/are getting anyway) and TotM staves.
Dude the MP efficence argument is dead in the water, No style of SMN is hurting for MP. All you're really saying here is "I have more "more MP than I could ever use" than you", EVERYONE with any way decent gear has more MP than they can spend as it is.
Back to topic.
A great trick for completing trials etc. is the solo mini astral burn. With DG and a regen atma + a MAB atma it's easy to pull and hold 10+ mobs and burn them down, usually takes less than 5 minutes from start to finish and is great for tearing a sizable chunk out of a trial if you find grinding on them too boring or are trying to squeeze some kills in before an event
Dallas
07-13-2011, 07:47 PM
This isn't the thread either. Move along, Raz.
Razushu
07-13-2011, 07:54 PM
Not so much a trick, but still a way to make SMN useful to seal runs. I've been on one or two as SMN where instead of fighting the NM(The proc jobs handled this) I farmed the pops continously leading to 0 downtime in the run for farming warping to AH to buy pops.
Sargent
07-13-2011, 11:07 PM
Yes, that Perp set required a Magain staff. without any staff, I would still be gaining 1mp/tick with a normal avatar out. My perp set (for Garuda) is as follows:
Magian+2/Vox Grip/H.Bomb
Caller's Horn+2/Caller's Pendant/Aug'd Ruby Earring/Moonshade
Caller's Doublet +2/Caller's Bracers +2/Evoker's Ring/Fervor Ring
Astute Cape/Caller's Sash/Stearc Subligar/Caller's Pigaches +2
Note: Nashira Gages aren't needed since I'm capping Perp anyway.
Now, despite the fact that I don't pay anywhere near enough attention to those forums, I'll add my 2 cents on the Hvergelmir discussion. Yes, I have one.
With a decent Myrkr build outside Abyssea, I'll gain around 400 mp from Myrkr. In a situation where it is feasible to melee, it is by far more MP efficient then Magians staves, since my MP pool won't drop below 1000, even if I buff with my avatar as well. However, of course most situations (say Endgame or kited kills) it would be unfeasible to melee. With a Magian staff and the above set, my MP efficiency is decent, however I would eventually run out of MP, even with Refresh and Convert.
Korpg
07-14-2011, 01:51 AM
There's nothing extreme about what I do. Take away the better gear, the faster damage, the better mp recovery, and the desire to be useful for more than a few select battles, and my SMN looks
just
like
yours.
The mp recovery is the only thing good about your set, but then again, you need the mp recovery.
Hows that 15 mp per tick perp cost handling? Sucks that you are weakened 75% of the time because you don't know when to duck. Also, you have the def of a naked BLM, so if you are saying you are doing as much damage as an Ukon WAR, you must be tanking like one too, right?
Neonii
07-14-2011, 02:34 AM
Wow keep the tips coming. One thing I found out is if I am attempting a bp in a crowd (like say campaign) If I pull back I can kinda avoid that glitch where the bp does not go off but the timer resets. I appreciate the conversation about -prep ect but its getting to be overkill. I have made a thread for the -prep stuff please carry your argument on over there.
Dallas
07-14-2011, 03:57 AM
With a decent Myrkr build outside Abyssea, I'll gain around 400 mp from Myrkr.
Testing suggests that 300% Aftermath is superior to 100% Aftermath. Since nothing is lost by waiting, you should only use the WS at 300%, or when you need to remove status effects. I get about 1080 MP outside of Abyssea, and 1500+ inside.
The mp recovery is the only thing good about your set
What is that refresh build? Sure looks like "mp recovery only" to me. What can you POSSIBLY do with that refresh gearset that I, having 13 gear slots free, can not manage?
BTW, what idiot is weakened 75% of the time? Your lie grows every time you post.
Korpg
07-14-2011, 04:15 AM
What is that refresh build? Sure looks like "mp recovery only" to me. What can you POSSIBLY do with that refresh gearset that I, having 13 gear slots free, can not manage?
How can you have any refresh going when you are A) geared up for melee and B) have an avatar out?
You got Auto-Refresh II, but that doesn't do crap at all. Your only -perp gear is Nash hands, and only because it has haste+ on it too. How can you have 13 gear slots free if you are geared completely to be a melee-mage?
BTW, what idiot is weakened 75% of the time?
You are, apparently. Not only have you stated that you have constantly taken hate away from your avatar, but you also do about as much damage as an Ukon WAR, which an Ukon WAR can hold hate the best in this game. According to you (and your lies) you have the hate of an Ukon WAR, so you always 100% tank as a melee-mage. This is your information, not mine, that I am referencing. You have the defense of a sponge (and the trait of one too) so I'm wondering what else you are going to say about your "uber SMN."
Have you discovered cheese toast yet?
Dallas
07-14-2011, 04:30 AM
Oh you poor forum troll, Korpg. Your reading is affecting your writing.
I wear haste gear because I can. When I melee, I am getting well over 500MP / minute because I generate a LOT of TP. The "debate" numbers I provided above are for a guy with Myrkr sitting around DOING NOTHING. That's really the only way to compare myself to a SMN that sits around DOING NOTHING.
Newsflash, Korpg. Melee SMN can sit around in perp gear too. That's what I switch to in between fights. It's "idle" gear, which means DOING NOTHING gear.
Again, just speaking down to you because that's where you chose to stand.
Korpg
07-14-2011, 06:20 AM
Oh you poor forum troll, Korpg. Your reading is affecting your writing.
I wear haste gear because I can. When I melee, I am getting well over 500MP / minute because I generate a LOT of TP. The "debate" numbers I provided above are for a guy with Myrkr sitting around DOING NOTHING. That's really the only way to compare myself to a SMN that sits around DOING NOTHING.
Newsflash, Korpg. Melee SMN can sit around in perp gear too. That's what I switch to in between fights. It's "idle" gear, which means DOING NOTHING gear.
Again, just speaking down to you because that's where you chose to stand.
Now that you know you can keep MP up without having to swing a staff, now maybe you will realize how much more of a help you are by not feeding TP while swinging a staff. Then you will realize that you can have 3 DD atmas on instead of 1 DD atma and 2 Regain Atma. I'm giving you that DD atma because VV is nice for avatars anyway, even though it has Regain too.
This is, of course, assuming that you are in abyssea. Go solo Vouivre as a SMN with that staff, lets see how far down you go. Don't worry, I already solo'd him as SMN, lets see you do so. Bet you that you can't.
Until you can solo Vouivre in Ifrit's Cauldron, you are not a Summoner, much less the type of one that you claim to be.
Dallas
07-14-2011, 01:07 PM
I don't know what is funnier, the idea that we wasted 600 posts arguing why a tp-spamming WAR is superior to a tp-spamming SMN (strictly in the presence of 3 other players whose only job is to boost the tp-spamminess of the WAR), or that you were there for all 600 posts and still believe that tp-spam is a major problem with ALL content.
Korpg
07-14-2011, 01:23 PM
yeah, because feeding TP to mobs that have extensive AoE moves and/or hard hitting single target death moves is a smart idea.
But then again, you probably haven't fought anything hard than Bubbly Bernie, so who can blame you for not knowing?
By the way, are you going to prove yourself to be a real summoner, or just somebody who likes to hide behind other's work?
Neonii
07-14-2011, 01:57 PM
Sigh...gives up on avoiding reading through pages and pages of the same arguments again and again and again.
Arciel
07-14-2011, 07:41 PM
you know who to blame for crapping up the threads. we had a golden week of silence ^_^
another very basic one..
exploit avatars elemental properties, especially the sleeping gods (celestials)
these NMs are strongly elementally aligned and will take far less damage from elements of the same alignment as them and the ones they are strong against.
the same is true for status effects because in XI status effect resist rates are proportionate to elemental resistance. which usually means to say that for every 1 of the 6 elemental wheel elements, you have 2 avatars that are strong against it.
I've found, from personal experience tho, that the 'strong to' element avatar usually fares better than the same element avatar, so I usually stick to that unless there are other trade offs.
in other words, vs Cerberus, Leviathan would fare better than Ifrit, or something like that.
you can also use this knowledge to kinda compile a list of what avatar is most suitable vs what status effects...
like, leviathan for amnesia... garuda for petrify and so on..
however, I think Poison and Gravity are exceptions to this. can't remember for sure.
Korpg
07-14-2011, 11:45 PM
however, I think Poison and Gravity are exceptions to this. can't remember for sure.
Poison isn't an exception, don't know about Gravity though.
Levi resists Poison like a pro
Arciel
07-15-2011, 01:11 AM
its one of those things that I don't quite remember cos the last time I remembered using Levi vs something with poison i don't remember a good outcome (it was Harvestman btw, long ago.. which is why i don't remember)
maybe I'll go ahead and try it with Kukulkan next
Korpg
07-15-2011, 02:00 AM
Try it with Alectryon, he has en-poison that is pretty potent, you would know if Levi is poisoned.
Dallas
07-15-2011, 05:56 PM
yeah, because feeding TP to mobs that have extensive AoE moves and/or hard hitting single target death moves is a smart idea.
Ahh yes, the extremely old, and stupid, "not even a WAR would melee those 5 mobs" defense. How original! Don't forget, when I completely gimp myself, I look
just
like
you.
Korpg
07-15-2011, 10:44 PM
Ahh yes, the extremely old, and stupid, "not even a WAR would melee those 5 mobs" defense. How original! Don't forget, when I completely gimp myself, I look
just
like
you.
Do you not pay attention? The Damage dealt/TP gain to mob ratio that a WAR produces is high enough to justify the use of meleeing on anything.
Who else do you know that can hit for 400 non-crit/non-ODD constantly? You? Psh...
And that is not on junk mobs either, that is on Tier 1 NMs in Abyssea, you know, the kind that would eat your face in a heartbeat. And that is with just a Widowmaker, not an Ukon.
And lets not forget that the damage dealt is faster than you can produce. And more accurate. And actually contributes to a WS that does actual damage instead of trying to keep your MP pool alive.
Oh, and lets not forget:
You are already completely gimp, how can you become gimper? So, does that mean you already look just like me? Naw, you will never look like me if you continue to be who you are. I know that I am an inspiration for you, but you are taking the whole thing wrong.
Neonii
07-15-2011, 11:41 PM
By that logic yours will need a needs Hvergelmir, but then not everyone needs the obvious pointed out. Although Nash gages, Caller's doublet & pigaches +2 with a Fay crozier will is another way to go rather than +1s(which most have/are getting anyway) and TotM staves.
Dude the MP efficence argument is dead in the water, No style of SMN is hurting for MP. All you're really saying here is "I have more "more MP than I could ever use" than you", EVERYONE with any way decent gear has more MP than they can spend as it is.
Back to topic.
A great trick for completing trials etc. is the solo mini astral burn. With DG and a regen atma + a MAB atma it's easy to pull and hold 10+ mobs and burn them down, usually takes less than 5 minutes from start to finish and is great for tearing a sizable chunk out of a trial if you find grinding on them too boring or are trying to squeeze some kills in before an event
What are you using for damage Ramuh? walk me through this its interesting.
Razushu
07-16-2011, 03:29 AM
What are you using for damage Ramuh? walk me through this its interesting.
The mini AF burn? I was using Atma's of the Ducal Guard, the plaguebringer(seadaughter when it's day time) and Beyond. Throw up any defensive buffs the avatar has and start pulling. Dawn mulsums make this much easier to pull large numbers.
Dallas
07-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Solo, mini-AF burn fill-in-the-blanks:
Steps:
1) Pull 10+ mobs with DG, regen pet, with a defensive buff if possible. Obviously since he is using Beyond instead of Ultimate, the pet is Shiva, the defensive pact is Ice Spikes. The trials are for Shiva perp staff.
2) Astral Flow 4x, presumably using 3 powerful ethers, because the only way that avatar is going to survive is Sleepga after MP has been brought to 0. Each Diamond Dust will use at least 236MP (180 for AF, 56 for Sleepga)
3) Pray that someone capped azure lights for you, because that single chance at pearl light isn't netting any ISL. The trick ends when an ISL does not drop.
Analysis:
i) 100 damage is reduced to 12.5 damage by DG. Most abyssea mobs hit for 200+. Let's say 25 damage per hit.
ii) 25 x 10 = 250 damage per attack round. The avatar, with 1500 hp, will die in 7 attack rounds UNLESS you spam Dawn Mulsim or Sleepga. Regen is worthless because the avatar isn't evading anything.
iii) Since BP: rage > ether > BP: ward takes 5+ seconds after the Rage, one attack round will always elapse.
iv) DG Atma also has negative movement speed. Pulling 10+ mobs will be VERY slow unless another job is present. This is a frequent requirement of many "solo" strategies, but it was not stated yet.
iv) it is safe to assume multiple Dawn Mulsim are mandatory to survive this.
v) A solid Shiva build can kill one trash mob every 45 seconds. In 5 minutes, that DD SMN can kill 6 trash mobs without Dawn Mulsim or ethers.
vi) The net gain of an item intensive, high risk trick is 4+ extra kills. MP will be 0 afterwards, so without an ISL, that margin is immediately lost. A competent DD never runs out of MP in 5 minutes. Nowadays, the incompetent ones don't either.
vii) Specifically, since this is a Shiva magian staff trick, this will kinda work for trials 842 (50 anything), 843 (50 leeches), 1713 (200 leeches), and 2197 (250 bats). There's no way this is happening with weather, Arcana, Raptors, or Sheep. Only the first two are timed, but any SMN should be able to kill 50 whatever in 50 minutes, especially with Shiva.
viii) different atma for different times of the day? OK, forget it. This is going to take days to carry out.
Conclusion: Buyer beware. There is some misrepresentation going on.
Raz, this post is for everyone else, not you. Obviously, I have my weapon.
Razushu
07-16-2011, 07:57 PM
Solo, mini-AF burn fill-in-the-blanks:
Steps:
1) Pull 10+ mobs with DG, regen pet, with a defensive buff if possible. Obviously since he is using Beyond instead of Ultimate, the pet is Shiva, the defensive pact is Ice Spikes. The trials are for Shiva perp staff.
2) Astral Flow 4x, presumably using 3 powerful ethers, because the only way that avatar is going to survive is Sleepga after MP has been brought to 0. Each Diamond Dust will use at least 236MP (180 for AF, 56 for Sleepga)
3) Pray that someone capped azure lights for you, because that single chance at pearl light isn't netting any ISL. The trick ends when an ISL does not drop.
Analysis:
i) 100 damage is reduced to 12.5 damage by DG. Most abyssea mobs hit for 200+. Let's say 25 damage per hit.
ii) 25 x 10 = 250 damage per attack round. The avatar, with 1500 hp, will die in 7 attack rounds UNLESS you spam Dawn Mulsim or Sleepga. Regen is worthless because the avatar isn't evading anything.
iii) Since BP: rage > ether > BP: ward takes 5+ seconds after the Rage, one attack round will always elapse.
iv) DG Atma also has negative movement speed. Pulling 10+ mobs will be VERY slow unless another job is present. This is a frequent requirement of many "solo" strategies, but it was not stated yet.
iv) it is safe to assume multiple Dawn Mulsim are mandatory to survive this.
v) A solid Shiva build can kill one trash mob every 45 seconds. In 5 minutes, that DD SMN can kill 6 trash mobs without Dawn Mulsim or ethers.
vi) The net gain of an item intensive, high risk trick is 4+ extra kills. MP will be 0 afterwards, so without an ISL, that margin is immediately lost. A competent DD never runs out of MP in 5 minutes. Nowadays, the incompetent ones don't either.
vii) Specifically, since this is a Shiva magian staff trick, this will kinda work for trials 842 (50 anything), 843 (50 leeches), 1713 (200 leeches), and 2197 (250 bats). There's no way this is happening with weather, Arcana, Raptors, or Sheep. Only the first two are timed, but any SMN should be able to kill 50 whatever in 50 minutes, especially with Shiva.
viii) different atma for different times of the day? OK, forget it. This is going to take days to carry out.
Conclusion: Buyer beware. There is some misrepresentation going on.
Raz, this post is for everyone else, not you. Obviously, I have my weapon.
It's highly ironic that you of all people would claim someone is mispresentation anything.
I posted this because I've done it several times before, it's easy if you can play SMN. There is no misrepresentation going on if your skilled you can do it without items, as this is done in Abyssea ethers are a non issue and MP is too. Dallas This takes 5 minutes to do for 10+ mobs seadaughter is fine. Thanks for fillling in blanks that probably no one really needed to be filled(including a few that didn't exist) I was in a hurry last night.
Neonii
07-16-2011, 10:47 PM
It's highly ironic that you of all people would claim someone is mispresentation anything.
I posted this because I've done it several times before, it's easy if you can play SMN. There is no misrepresentation going on if your skilled you can do it without items, as this is done in Abyssea ethers are a non issue and MP is too. Dallas This takes 5 minutes to do for 10+ mobs seadaughter is fine. Thanks for fillling in blanks that probably no one really needed to be filled(including a few that didn't exist) I was in a hurry last night.
Actually I needed the details was never one to astral burn and was trying to work it out in how to complete it solo with that many mobs actually beating on summon. Thank you I am actually going to try this but I will start with a few and get the hang of it before trying it on ten. Thank you for the tip.
Edit: I will admit the astral flow party I was in I killed myself cause didn't really understand not to assult. After that I kinda got the hang of it but it was a long time ago. I never did another astral flow party because it set my smn skill back so far I didn't catch up until I started staff trials. Prior to that one party I always had capped skill =).
Dallas
07-17-2011, 09:47 AM
Actually I needed the details
You asked for details. Raz is horrendous on details.
5 minutes is obviously wrong, since he is pulling with a reduced movement speed avatar then using a 3 minute ability. He's clearly starting the clock after he collects his mobs.
Razushu
07-17-2011, 10:15 PM
You asked for details. Raz is horrendous on details.
5 minutes is obviously wrong, since he is pulling with a reduced movement speed avatar then using a 3 minute ability. He's clearly starting the clock after he collects his mobs.
3 minute ability? Dallas most things die in 2 AF pacts that 45 secs, also you're really over estimating how bad the - movement speed hurts.
Funnily enough Dallas those are the only details you've ever really posted here and they were way off even.
Razushu
07-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Actually I needed the details was never one to astral burn and was trying to work it out in how to complete it solo with that many mobs actually beating on summon. Thank you I am actually going to try this but I will start with a few and get the hang of it before trying it on ten. Thank you for the tip.
Edit: I will admit the astral flow party I was in I killed myself cause didn't really understand not to assult. After that I kinda got the hang of it but it was a long time ago. I never did another astral flow party because it set my smn skill back so far I didn't catch up until I started staff trials. Prior to that one party I always had capped skill =).
Sorry I didn't mean to assume, yeah start with a few it's good for practise.
Dallas
07-18-2011, 05:18 AM
3 minute ability? Dallas most things die in 2 AF pacts that 45 secs, also you're really over estimating how bad the - movement speed hurts.
Funnily enough Dallas those are the only details you've ever really posted here and they were way off even.
-movement speed: superior
Everyone has seen it. I'm calling "2-box solo" now, since you are done defending your claim.
Razushu
07-18-2011, 05:27 AM
-movement speed: superior
Everyone has seen it. I'm calling "2-box solo" now, since you are done defending your claim.
Try proper Solo, seriously have you ever even used DG the - movement speed is not that noticeable until you move long distances. Also a slower avatar helps the pull as you're less likely to lose a linked mob. Is 2boxing how you manage to melee? Do you have a WHM bot spam cures on you when you take hits?
Dallas
07-18-2011, 06:01 AM
As I said, 2-box until proven otherwise. 10+ mobs is going to be a "long distance." Fail.
Razushu
07-18-2011, 06:10 AM
As I said, 2-box until proven otherwise. 10+ mobs is going to be a "long distance." Fail.
In Abyssea 10 mobs is at most a map grid AT MOST. Funny you of all people should demand proof for something thats very simple to grasp, But I suppose seeing as you can never prove yourself more than a gimp melee(number don't lie, although I'd say any you throw would bend the truth more than a little) I'll let you make claims like 2box all you want.
Korpg
07-18-2011, 08:12 AM
-movement speed: superior
Everyone has seen it. I'm calling "2-box solo" now, since you are done defending your claim.
Ever soloed anything? Seriously? Is the minus movement speed really that bad? Seriously?
Dallas
07-18-2011, 05:36 PM
It is if you are lying that you can pickup 10+ mobs and kill them all in 5 minutes. Fraps exists, but this video never will.
Razushu
07-18-2011, 06:43 PM
It is if you are lying that you can pickup 10+ mobs and kill them all in 5 minutes. Fraps exists, but this video never will.
I wouldn't expect a gimp melee to understand how this works, it's a trick for Summoner's not 1/4 WARs. I find your lack of knowledge about SMN disturbing.
Korpg
07-18-2011, 10:54 PM
It is if you are lying that you can pickup 10+ mobs and kill them all in 5 minutes. Fraps exists, but this video never will.
Just 5 minutes? a WAR can kill them in less than 30 seconds. And the nice thing about Fell Cleave? Damage isn't reduced based on the number of mobs either.
Covenant
07-22-2011, 12:25 PM
@tannlore, wow interesting info there. How about offensively? Can u trick spirits to cast damage spells? Perhaps by either attack/cancel or casting debuffs first on mob yourself?
Dallas
07-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Just 5 minutes? a WAR can kill them in less than 30 seconds. And the nice thing about Fell Cleave? Damage isn't reduced based on the number of mobs either.
You do know you're in the job forum represented by that striped ugly thing in the middle of your signature, right? Also, LOL at your bolded statement. You hear this a lot: read more.
Korpg
07-23-2011, 12:17 AM
You do know you're in the job forum represented by that striped ugly thing in the middle of your signature, right? Also, LOL at your bolded statement. You hear this a lot: read more.
Go level BLM and start -aga stuff, you will find out that more mobs = less damage per mob.
But then again, you are the one with the hardon for WAR.
Laraul
07-23-2011, 12:56 AM
Dallas.... meet me in Brenner sometime...
Korpg
07-23-2011, 03:49 AM
He might, if he actually leveled SMN.
Dallas
07-23-2011, 07:03 AM
Go level BLM and start -aga stuff, you will find out that more mobs = less damage per mob.
But then again, you are the one with the hardon for WAR.
BLM is that failure on the right, not the failure in the middle. Would someone find this illiterate guy irl and tell him what ability and what job is being discussed?
Back in campaign, one of the biggest cheats was to buy one of the bombs from the NPC, summon your avatar, use the bomb, and back out of its range. If it diffused and didn't explode, your avatar became free of cost. I don't know if it still works or if that's the exact correct order... or if it's even safe (I don't know how SE can ban anyone for a cheat in their own programming though), but it was how a lot of summoners use to do campaign back in the day.
The best way to solo hard monsters as a summoner is to not use assault or bloodpacts ever, and to use your cheapest avatar. Back at 75 this use to be Carbuncle, and the term "Carby kiting" became pretty big. What you do is you pop the monster (or if it's already up, one assault), then run far far away. When the monster is completely out of range and you're plenty far from getting aggro, you wait until your avatar dies, resummon, let your summon find the monster, and run past them both to another area out of range of that monster. Continue this until the monster's health is low enough, and bring out your big guns, such as Garuda.
That strategy use to be the best way to solo XP back in the day pre75 and pre-Spirit Taker. Of course everything has now changed about SMN, so I don't know. ^^;
Korpg
07-23-2011, 08:39 AM
BLM is that failure on the right, not the failure in the middle. Would someone find this illiterate guy irl and tell him what ability and what job is being discussed?
Well, smart guy, how many AoE abilities do you have, at one time? I mean, of course, not including 2hr.
Dallas
07-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Well, smart guy, how many AoE abilities do you have, at one time? I mean, of course, not including 2hr.
Funny, Raz was talking about the SMN 2hr. Your reading skills are absolutely the worst I have ever seen.
Korpg
07-24-2011, 02:53 PM
Funny, Raz was talking about the SMN 2hr. Your reading skills are absolutely the worst I have ever seen.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Thunderspark tbh. I was waiting for that.
Besides, I wasn't talking to him, I was talking to you. And you postulate that my reading skills are below par. Well, the accusation goes back to you.
Dallas
07-24-2011, 02:59 PM
Korpg, if you are going to interrupt others and not bother to know what the topic is, just expect to look illiterate.
Here's you: OMG, my WAR's WS is so good because it isn't reduced by number of targets! Take that BLM with your "aga"s!
You deserve to be laughed out of here.
Korpg
07-25-2011, 12:14 AM
Korpg, if you are going to interrupt others and not bother to know what the topic is, just expect to look illiterate.
Here's you: OMG, my WAR's WS is so good because it isn't reduced by number of targets! Take that BLM with your "aga"s!
You deserve to be laughed out of here.
You still never answered the question. You instead take my words out of context and spew "illiterate" all over the place.
In fact, I gave you the answer, and you still accuse me of not reading.
You just trolling son. Very badly if I do say so myself. You have yet to get a negative response out of me in, how many months now?
Dallas
07-25-2011, 05:44 AM
Why do you feel you deserve any responses from me, Korpg?
Korpg
07-25-2011, 05:51 AM
A little conceited, aren't you?
Neonii
07-25-2011, 07:53 AM
Hum to bad you guys are not on the same server you could do a Ballista and finally settle it. :cool::cool::cool:
Korpg
07-25-2011, 09:15 AM
Ballista doesn't give him his needed atmas though.
Dallas
07-25-2011, 10:10 AM
Ballista would be too boring, since he'd obviously be too afraid to attack me because of the TP feed.
Korpg
07-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Ballista would be too boring, since he'd obviously be too afraid to attack me because of the TP feed.
Please, all I have to do is run around until you run out of mp. Give you like a minute and a half until you run out of mp.
Dallas
07-25-2011, 04:36 PM
I have an idle set. It's called -perp. You are going to have to run in terror a long time, I'm afraid.
Malamasala
07-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Ballista's basic problem is gear change stun anyway. A Summoner who changes gear 4 times during a BP suffers tremendously.
Razushu
07-25-2011, 09:28 PM
Ballista's basic problem is gear change stun anyway. A Summoner who changes gear 4 times during a BP suffers tremendously.
Thats why you don't gear swap, it's a pain and a big reason why I don't bother with it. PvP which prevents swapping situational gear, in a game built on situational gear.
Arciel
07-25-2011, 11:50 PM
Why do you feel you deserve any responses from me, Korpg?
lol.
"You're not worth talking to so I'm not gonna talk to you. I'm really not!"
Dallas
07-27-2011, 06:34 AM
I want him to know that the time is there, but I would sooner waste it than give him what he wants.