New Job Trait for Samurai. Bushido: Dual Wielding Great Katanas.

[DarkBass]

Since Samurai in real life were able to dual wield Light Katana blades, I think this would be a great, and refreshing addition to Samurai. I was thinking the Mechanics would work as follows.

- Offhand Great Katanas can only be Kanesada type blades since they are the lightest type of Great Katana in the game.

- To make sure Samurai is not overpowered, the tp gained from the offhand Great Katana would either be 1/2 or 1/3 of the main Great Katana's tp gain.

I do feel this addition won't overpower Samurai and really stick to the realistic additions that have already been implimented to Samurai already. Possibly add a different dual wield stance for Samurai.

Thank you for the read and please consider this for the future updates.

[Dragoy]

I sort of always had this in my mind for some reason as well. If done right, it would certainly be cool and useful. Maybe add some critical-hit weapon skills with it heheh, usable whether dual-wielding or not but perhaps with slightly different characteristics.

In the end, my only concern probably would be one being definitely better than the other and then everyone would just use that. There would be a need for perhaps the other being better in some situations while the other would prevail on other occasions.

All in all, it would be rather difficult to do that, I imagine, and can't really see this happening.
I would like it, though.

[Coldbrand]

No. 123456789101112

[Doombringer]

they have duel-wieldable great katanas.. they call them katanas.

now if you wanna give sam a katana skill and access to some of them then that's something i'd be willing to entertain.

but duel wielding great katanas is silly.. you'd look ridiculous.

[DarkBass]

they have duel-wieldable great katanas.. they call them katanas.

now if you wanna give sam a katana skill and access to some of them then that's something i'd be willing to entertain.

but duel wielding great katanas is silly.. you'd look ridiculous.

1. You are right, They are called Katanas. But not the katanas that ninja's wield in this game. The correct name for them is Wakizashi since they are shorter than Katana blades. Sam's is called Great Katana simply to differenciate from ninja's weapon name. 2, it would not look silly for Samurai to dual wield great katanas, as it doesnt look silly when they have done it IRL and in things drawn/put on tv. Watch some more tv and look it up on the internet and get more informed about the subject.

[Deadmen]

First Great katana are classified has two handed swords, and second Ive never seen a Samurai doc or movie where they duel weilded X2 great katana unless it was some kind of hollywood movie. Samurais Keep a Wakizashi and a Katana (Great katana), The Wakizashi is mainly for killing themselves if they fail in battle. Samurai were very prideful and honorable.

[Deadmen]

So I disagree with this thread

[Karbuncle]

I simply disagree with this because it would be nearly impossible to balance it to not be overpowered, but also make it useful.

Consider this, You can Dual wield these GK now, But is there a delay reduction? if so how much, 10%? if its 10%, and your offhand only gets ~1/3rd the TP gain, You're essentially giving up a significant chunk of Attack speed and TP Gain in return for... Looking silly?

If its ~40% or higher similar to Dual Wield from NIN, Would it effect your overall TP gain like Dual wield's Delay reduciton? Or would the Sub-hand nerf be the only nerf to TP?

Either way it just would not be useful to the job unless it was broken, Because giving the offhand less TP simply means you'll be taking longer to swing for over-all far less TP Gain-over-time. Giving it a Delay reduction to match Dual Wield, even with TP nerf, Would either make it too useless to consider, or too powerful.

Its a tough balance, I just simply do not see something like this being realistic. I am sorry

[DarkBass]

You make great points karbuncle, but if added to the game, it would surely be balanced. there's more to the game than the math that simply the people working at SE knows. Lighter katanas like the kanesada types are the ones that allow you to effectively wield with one hand, providing access for two, which is my reasoning for using that as an example in the reason above.

[Karbuncle]

I know your reasons, I'm simply saying even if it was added It would simply not be useful. For example. Say you're wielding 2 Great Katanas. 1 with 480 delay, one with 420.

Your delay is now 900 before haste. If you're only getting 1/3rd TP From offhand, You're almost doubling your delay for 1/3rd the gain from doing so. Essentially you're massively cutting your WS-phase damage because of how much longer it will now take to get 100% TP.

I'm not saying it might not be historically accurate (Honestly, I don't know, I haven't looked up Samurai stuff ever), But I'm simply saying it would be either entirely too gimp to even be useful, or too overpowered. Who knows, they could balance it, But it would have to be done in a way i can't think of :O

(Admittedly i havent given it too severe of thought)

Edit: And also, With regards to offhanding Kanesada-types because they're light, Wouldn't it still raise the problem if you're say.. Mainhanding a Masamune? I mean the Kanesada is light but wouldn't Masa still require 2 hands?

[Wataruryu]

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

[DarkBass]

Since this would be different from dual wielding one handed weapons, idk, maybe make the delay a hard 480 or 500. As far as wielding blades like a Masamune, wielding it with one hand is do able, but would just be slower, but we got a few ws's showing one handed swings. But another balancing idea to impliment is to lower the base atk some and weaken ws dmg some, since wielding one weapon with two hands makes it stronger. My idea being weaken atk and ws dmg some in exchange for much faster tp gain. But thats all i can think of as far as the mechanics of it goes.

[DarkBass]

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

Thank you for that info i was having a very hard time locating specifics. and kenjutsu black belt= coolness d^.^b

[Miitan]

Why not just add Monkey Grip and let all 2-handers dual wield?

[Paksenarrion]

Why not just add Monkey Grip and let all 2-handers dual wield?

But wouldn't a grip take up the space needed for the second weapon? D=

I think if anyone should be able to dual wield two-handers, it should be WAR. They're supposed to be the masters at the weapon.

[Miitan]

But wouldn't a grip take up the space needed for the second weapon? D=

I think if anyone should be able to dual wield two-handers, it should be WAR. They're supposed to be the masters at the weapon.

It was a job ability in Final Fantasy Tactics that let you dual-wield 2-handed weapons.

[Hexacore]

If you look at the way 1-handers are balanced, and this is from a development perspective, SE did something unique with dual wield that most other rpgs do not.

In other games, using 2 weapons doubles the number of attacks you can make in some period of time. This is a pretty common standby.

Dual wield trait confers two main advantages in FFXI (neither of which is doubling your swings).

1) Fixed percentage delay reduction (at the cost of TP per hit)
-- Starts at 10% reduction.
-- Requires a job trait only two support jobs can provide.

2) A second slot to reap bonuses associated with wielding a one handed weapon.

To a lesser extent than the prior two items mentioned, balance is achieved by 1-handed itemization...i.e. most 1 handed weapons fit into some spectrum of delay vs. damage based on their weapon type. But itemization is both malleable and transient. Malleable in the sense that the devs can and do provide unique items that defy conventional boundaries of a weapon type. Transient in the sense that this uniqueness is usually offset by "growing the game" in a way that minimizes the impact or disparity such items cause.

Your original suggestion breaks the 2 core rules of dual wielding and manages to violate the unwritten one as well.

Objectively, that makes your suggestion an unlikely candidate for implementation. Subjectively, I like it.

Here would be a more viable approach:

1) SAM is bound by the same core mechanic 1) as all other jobs (except THF and BLU) ... in order to wield 2 weapons, you must possess the Dual Wield trait...in order to obtain this trait you must set NIN or DNC as your support job.

2) Wielding two existing 2-handed weapons is a balance nightmare. The only suggestion I have for doing so would be that you HALF the damage, HALF the delay, and HALF any statistical bonuses conferred by the weapon. This isn't really viable.

I reason the above with the following logic...If you equipped 2 of the same GK with the above example, it would effectively be equal to 1 of the whole. You lose several things however. Namely: a slot for a grip and the ability to appropriately utilize job/item tools for creating a low-hit build...welcome to the world of 1-handers.

But you look cool doing it, which is really the only way you can boil down the OP's suggestion. Honestly, you can't get something for nothing in real life or in this game.

- - - -

Mechanically however, too many items have been hard-coded with special properties that cannot be easily halved. See occasionally attacks twice for instance. Because of this, OP's suggestion not only violates core mechanic 2), but also is impractical from an implementation standpoint.

Hence, using existing 2H itemization and trying to fit it into the 1-handed mold is basically a waste of time.

The axe:

The axe is the warriors answer to this quandary. But how many warriors do you see using axes? If you want to use axes, you are probably better off leveling BST rather than warrior.

3) The only way to implement something that suits the OP would be all new itemization.

Basically, you add 1-handed Great Katanas (so they use their existing skill). Axe is to great axe as these weapons would be to great katanas.

If you don't like that idea, take my advice and give up. Because frankly, none of this is going to happen anyway. But at least mine follows what has been done before. Whereas everything else I've heard up until this point sounds like someone who burned out on WoW cataclysm just got done Abyssea burning and hopped on the forum.

There are tons of things you can do to look cool in this game. Almost all of them will result in you sucking at playing your character.

Regardless, SOMEONE will always show up to a level 40 book burn in Novennial gear.

[DarkBass]

You make very good points, and very good examples, but you sound like someone who has been playing the game since before abyssea, so i think you will know and understand the following.

As far as war goes, using two axes was actually widely accepted because it put out more DPS than using a great axe, then came the two handed up date and the calculation changed for 2 handed weapons where 1 str and 1 atk became equal to 1 atk and 1 acc. Plus they implimented more great axes for war that completely nullified the idea to use axes, so now its completely better for war to use great axe.

As far as using the second slot to reap benefits from another weapon, right now the best choice is soboro. 2-3 attacks per round(unless you have the multi hit magian gk) is wonderful. If they add this to samurai they will just make a bunch more GK's specifically for offhanding.

My point being, as jobs are further updated, so does the game around it. I just presented the idea and many good supporting arguements for it. I wish i worked for SE so i could work on the idea in full, but they can in a way that would preserve balance. We can do godly shit now and the game is still well balanced. This would just add on to the tp gain mastery that is samurai, but not overpower it.

[Hexacore]

You make very good points, and very good examples, but you sound like someone who has been playing the game since before abyssea, so i think you will know and understand the following.

As far as war goes, using two axes was actually widely accepted because it put out more DPS than using a great axe, then came the two handed up date and the calculation changed for 2 handed weapons where 1 str and 1 atk became equal to 1 atk and 1 acc. Plus they implimented more great axes for war that completely nullified the idea to use axes, so now its completely better for war to use great axe.

As far as using the second slot to reap benefits from another weapon, right now the best choice is soboro. 2-3 attacks per round(unless you have the multi hit magian gk) is wonderful. If they add this to samurai they will just make a bunch more GK's specifically for offhanding.

My point being, as jobs are further updated, so does the game around it. I just presented the idea and many good supporting arguements for it. I wish i worked for SE so i could work on the idea in full, but they can in a way that would preserve balance. We can do godly shit now and the game is still well balanced. This would just add on to the tp gain mastery that is samurai, but not overpower it.

Well I think it's a very fun idea.

And I also agree, when a game starts to wind down like this one is, it needs to be about finding closure to the journey.

Being obsessed over job balance issues at this point is a little bit short sighted, right?

Personally though, I like the Abyssea approach to adding fun things for every job through atmas.

Most of the better atma choices provide enough of a boost to allow all jobs to excel in new and interesting ways.

I do really like your original idea, but I would like to see them make it broad enough that it benefits more than just one job.

At the end of the day the best way to do this would be to leverage the existing game mechanics but add some freshness with the way these things were visualized.

Graphically there isn't much more to it than adding bigger looking weapons that could be wielded as one handers, and then throwing a bone or two in the form of 1-handed weapon options for some of the 2-handed users.

Almace is actually a good example of the ability to make BIGGER 1 handed weapons that still look good.

It can be done.

[DarkBass]

Heck id be glad to see multiple jobs dual wield 2 handed weapons. Just since most of the updates from sam are based off real samurai diciplines, i think its about time they add this to samurai at least.

[Horadrim]

The only job that should get true 2H Weapon dual wield is Warrior, and the ability for it in the FF franchise is called "Monkey Grip."

Meanwhile, samurai should get an ability that allows them to -equip- a 1handed weapon into their offhand slot and have it appear on them as they fight with their Great Katana. They can't use it, but then you can an additional ability that allows them to access weaponskills from that weapon and use them with Great Sword.

Its the best of both worlds. You keep Samurai from looking like complete idiots dual wielding Great katana (which is a trashy, "Omg, so cool!" movie gimmick at best), but you allow them access to additional weapon skills by embodying the classic image of a Samurai with a Katana and a Wakizashi.

[DarkBass]

The only job that should get true 2H Weapon dual wield is Warrior, and the ability for it in the FF franchise is called "Monkey Grip."

Meanwhile, samurai should get an ability that allows them to -equip- a 1handed weapon into their offhand slot and have it appear on them as they fight with their Great Katana. They can't use it, but then you can an additional ability that allows them to access weaponskills from that weapon and use them with Great Sword.

Its the best of both worlds. You keep Samurai from looking like complete idiots dual wielding Great katana (which is a trashy, "Omg, so cool!" movie gimmick at best), but you allow them access to additional weapon skills by embodying the classic image of a Samurai with a Katana and a Wakizashi.

Well first off, if you read the top of the 2nd page, you will learn that dual wielding great katanas is a real style. like hasso and seigan. secondly, im not understanding the logic behind supporting war dual wielding 2h weapons, but sams "looking like idiots" dual wielding great katans. but the wieldin the 1 handed weapon and having access to its weapon skills sounds nice.

[Horadrim]

Well first off, if you read the top of the 2nd page, you will learn that dual wielding great katanas is a real style. like hasso and seigan. secondly, im not understanding the logic behind supporting war dual wielding 2h weapons, but sams "looking like idiots" dual wielding great katans. but the wieldin the 1 handed weapon and having access to its weapon skills sounds nice.

WAR dual wielding is established in the FF franchise -- that's the difference. Yes, dual wielding Katana is a style, but its a different thing than what Samurai uses. Looking at the job as it has been represented in the game, the class is closer to more classical imagery and representations of Kenjutsu. Sure, there's Nitojutsu, which uses dual wielding, but that's a Daito and a wakizashi (effectively a Great Katana and a Katana), not two Great Katana.

That's the difference. I say, if you're going to go that route, give Warrior Monkey Grip and give Samurai a trait representative or derivative of Nitojutsu (i.e. Augmenting a 2H weapon with a 1H weapon equiped in the offhand slot) -- And the reason for that is the Warrior is the "wreckless barbarian" that deals damage indiscriminately and Samurai is supposed to be the elegant and efficient fighter -- and flailing dual Great Katanas around is far from elegant or efficient.

Dual wielding a spear and a short sword was a common historical thing too, but you're not using history to argue that Lancer should get dual wield are you? I think this method incorporates two different elements that both respect the baseline of the jobs as well as allow for additional traits that add a great amount of variety and creativity to the game.

SAM suddenly allows itself and other classes access to additional weapon skills -- broadening their versatility and damage output through weapon skills options (like its supposed to do now.)

WAR adds additional damage to jobs its subbed under through baseline damage increases like it does now.

It keeps either job from becoming the new "must have" sub, and allows them to retain their individuality and relevant with regard to their history and story line purpose.

[DarkBass]

You make some good points, but you are mostly missing the point... a lot of this stuff was covered in the first page. As far as dual wielding great katanas go, in my original post i stated that only light types of great katana should go in the off hand (like the kanesada types or more commonly known as the soboro sukehiro type), since those were light enough to wield with one hand, and kicked around some ideas with the mechanics of it on the first page. Samurai are diciplined fighters with a few weapons. dual wielding great katanas wouldnt change this fact. Just because war has had a history with monkey grip, doesnt mean it samurai would look stupid doing this. Its like, you're saying its ok for war to do this and look stupid because it has a history with doing it anyway, and its "not as disciplined" as sam so thats fine. Thats not the case, so moot point. How it looks is up to the developers, and they wouldnt make it look "silly". the purpose of this is to introduce they idea and the mechanics of it. And i have also agreed with the idea of other 2h jobs getting their own unique dual wield. Drg getting a lance and a short sword would be sweet^^. Again the idea of gaining access to weaponskills of the offhand weapon is very nice.

[Horadrim]

You make some good points, but you are mostly missing the point... a lot of this stuff was covered in the first page. As far as dual wielding great katanas go, in my original post i stated that only light types of great katana should go in the off hand (like the kanesada types or more commonly known as the soboro sukehiro type), since those were light enough to wield with one hand, and kicked around some ideas with the mechanics of it on the first page. Samurai are diciplined fighters with a few weapons. dual wielding great katanas wouldnt change this fact. Just because war has had a history with monkey grip, doesnt mean it samurai would look stupid doing this. Its like, you're saying its ok for war to do this and look stupid because it has a history with doing it anyway, and its "not as disciplined" as sam so thats fine. Thats not the case, so moot point. How it looks is up to the developers, and they wouldnt make it look "silly". the purpose of this is to introduce they idea and the mechanics of it. And i have also agreed with the idea of other 2h jobs getting their own unique dual wield. Drg getting a lance and a short sword would be sweet^^. Again the idea of gaining access to weaponskills of the offhand weapon is very nice.

Meh... I had typed out a lengthy explanation of my point, but I can't be bothered. Its funny when someone tells you that you're missing the point when they are missing yours.

I completely understand what you're saying, I understand the idea, and I understand the concept as a whole. My point is that SE is never going to destroy their entire concept of the jobs with abilities that in no way suit the legacy of that job. If you're going to ask for something, you have to forget about the "my job" element of it, and address it from the point of how to get those abilities into the game within reason and practical maintenance of each jobs established personality.

If you think that giving a job who's primary purpose overarching mastery of WEAPON SKILLS and TP management an ability that in no way accentuates that primary directive over a job who's sole purpose is to be able to wield any and all weapons to deal the most damage possible -- then I'll leave you to it.

[Wataruryu]

Niten Ichi Ryu does have techniques that use Daito (Great katana) in both hands, that's something that wikipedia seems to have left out. I've personal got to see this with my own eyes and practice it in seminars on the style, with deeper research you will find that it is there. Also its very fluid and elegant even with two Diato. Just more info to chew on ^^

[Horadrim]

Niten Ichi Ryu does have techniques that use Daito (Great katana) in both hands, that's something that wikipedia seems to have left out. I've personal got to see this with my own eyes and practice it in seminars on the style, with deeper research you will find that it is there. Also its very fluid and elegant even with two Diato. Just more info to chew on ^^

Not the point, but ok.

I mean I like the idea... I just don't feel it suits Samurai of all classes...

[Wataruryu]

I'm not saying I'm for or against the idea. The thread just caught my attention, and there was some romanticized ideas (mostly movie type statements)about what a samurai is. Seeing as I study the stuff extensively though, I thought I'd throw in some facts that people would find interesting; Perhaps encourage some to learn something new and fun. It just so happens the info I'm imparting is in the OP's favor, your both entitled to your opinion. Like I said in my first post it fits the samurai class because they trained in it and the art still exist. That is my point and the reasoning for my post. I'm not here to bring down anyone, or their ideas. Just saw something brought up that I have a major passion for, and wanted to share.^^

[Kristal]

Meanwhile, samurai should get an ability that allows them to -equip- a 1handed weapon into their offhand slot and have it appear on them as they fight with their Great Katana.

Already exists in the form of straps and grips, except for the visual aspects. SE could add a decorative weapon to the EAF leg armor I suppose, like they did with PUP. (Big joke there.. throwing knives, juggling pins, tambourine... yet none of them can be equipped on PUP)

[Horadrim]

Already exists in the form of straps and grips, except for the visual aspects. SE could add a decorative weapon to the EAF leg armor I suppose, like they did with PUP. (Big joke there.. throwing knives, juggling pins, tambourine... yet none of them can be equipped on PUP)

You know, and the primary point of the idea...

[Alukat]

Edit: And also, With regards to offhanding Kanesada-types because they're light, Wouldn't it still raise the problem if you're say.. Mainhanding a Masamune? I mean the Kanesada is light but wouldn't Masa still require 2 hands?

not if your equipment gives str+50 xD

[Urteil]

Holy Shit, and I thought the Blue Mages asking for Shell/Protect/HasteII/Reraise/Raise/Phalanx/Meteoer/Death/Curse/Plague/Comet/Odin


Were bad.

[Flionheart]

This thread hurts me in too many ways imaginable.

[Rayik]

Screw it, not worth bothering. This thread is dumb.

[Horadrim]

Screw it, not worth bothering. This thread is dumb.

I wish I had your common sense...

[zell_]

at the risk of sounding like a complete tool, ill offer my two cents.

one way or another sam should have a dagger/katana like weapon. sam already has dagger skill itself but id say it should have its own specific style of dagger or katana.

some people mention that wakizashi could be a candidate. i agree with this. SE could make a wakizashi skill and have it supplement great katana, or let it be only a mainhanded weapon.

the idea of traditional samurai being honorable brings another idea to mind. someone posted that samurai would use a wakizashi to murder themselves when they failed a mission. and i was thinking of a way to spin off of this. i was thinking of a job trait or an ability that inflicts damage on the user when said user misses a ws. a dot or amount of dmg is done to the sam but it increases its attack speed or attack. another option is that it inflicts doom status. i like to think of it as a combination of souleater, mijin gakure and sublimation.

some of these ideas may seem a little far fetched but whats so wrong with letting ones imagination run wild. if anyone else has any ideas or some criticism/adjustment to my ideas please speak up.

[Venlo]

If it hasn't already been said, it'll never happen.
PS2 limitations.

[Kazaki]

Level Ninja.

/thead.

[Quetzacoatl]

Level Ninja.

/thead.

This. If SAM gets Dual Wield Great Katanas, then I want DRKs to have a Floating Scythe like Evil Weapons have for Swords, Axes and whatnot.

It ain't happening either way.

[DarkBass]

Well, floating weapons is something you can do with dats, you can make that happen. To karbuncle, in my original post/first page that main handing a great katana like masamune and off handing a kanesada type blade= slower atk speed for the sake of faster tp gain. something like footwork, but hopefully not that slow. Zell your idea about inflicting self dmg from harakiri(sp i think) to boost atk sounds nice. Other 2h jobs getting their own unique form of dual wield following the history of the game/RL history would be sweet as well. I posted this thread in hopes SE officials would look at it and consider it. But ive had the most fun reading others positive suggestions that differ from my own.

[Quetzacoatl]

Well, floating weapons is something you can do with dats, you can make that happen.
But does it deal extra damage? ha-HA!

[DarkBass]

But does it deal extra damage? ha-HA!

No, but you didnt say anything about extra damage XD

[Quetzacoatl]

No, but you didnt say anything about extra damage XD

It was implied, though...

[Raka]

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this idea. Unsure if it's mentioned in an earlier post, but Wouldn't it criple the point of even having Hasso or Seigan also? True or not that some Samurai were trained to wield two weapons in reality, doesn't necessarily mean it should be implemented in a game. Should just create a new class to be honest.

Asking for this is like asking to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class.

All and all, meant no disrespect with my post; Just my opinion.

[DarkBass]

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this idea. Unsure if it's mentioned in an earlier post, but Wouldn't it criple the point of even having Hasso or Seigan also? True or not that some Samurai were trained to wield two weapons in reality, doesn't necessarily mean it should be implemented in a game. Should just create a new class to be honest.

Asking for this is like asking to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class.

All and all, meant no disrespect with my post; Just my opinion.

With all due respect, It is not like merging Ninja and Samurai into one class. Because by that logic, You are saying Thief and Dancer are the same as Ninja, simply because they natively have Dual Wield. Hasso and Seigan wouldn't be affected at all by this addition (At least as far as my idea for the mechanics of it goes)because Great Katanas are still two handed weapons. Just Samurai's Mastery of the weapon would allow them to wield two, provided the offhand one is a Kanesada type. I feel this is a valid addtion for the DEV's to at least consider, since a good selection of updates to Samurai have been based off real life teachings and disciplines, and this only reinforces one of Samurai's strongest points. Fast tp gain.

[Karbuncle]

Unless you changed your Idea in the OP, this would not help them get TP faster, in fact if its still "Nerf offhand TP to 1/3rd TP" then it slows them down tremendously, because they're adding another 420 delay to their weapon, but only getting 1/3rd of the TP from said delay gain, meaning it would slow down the SAMs TP gain.

If you've changed the idea of the OP than you can ignore this.

Edit: and actually, after doing like, 3 minutes of research, i can't find any true Samurai training pertaining to the art of wielding 2 Large uchigatana or Katana class weapons Simultaneously. Most Samurai had a Large main weapon (Polearm, Staff, Katana) and a smaller weapon like a Tanto or Wakizashi:

From Wiki:


Smaller commonly known companion swords are the wakizashi and the tanto.[33] A katana and a Wakizashi or tantō together are called a daishō (literally "big and small"), the wearing of a daisho became the symbol of the samurai as only a samurai was allowed to wear the daisho.

I found it interesting Samurai also used Polearms and Bows well, as in FFXI... they also used this thing

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/YumiKai.gif/150px-YumiKai.gif

Look familiar? Reminds me of the Relic bow. Page Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi

[DarkBass]

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

Here's the research for you. But in my further explained mechanics was maybe the dev's doing something different with the added delay math when it comes to this, ao that its slightly slower but still a faster gain in tp.

[Karbuncle]

That style of combat is, from what i can tell:


Hyōhō Niten Ichi-ryū is mainly known for the two-sword—katana and wakizashi—kenjutsu techniques Musashi called Niten Ichi (二天一, "two heavens as one") or Nitō Ichi (二刀一, "two swords as one").

a Great Katana, and a 1handed Katana, by FFXI standards, as its a Katana and a Wakizashi, a Large arm and a small arm.

I also found this: http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Nito.htm

and this Demonstration Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2YbZIEI5Gg

The guy on the right is the one using the Nito technique (during the first part of the video), however from the video you can tell one Katana is vastly smaller than the other, i think this was still a matter of a Large Weapon, and a Small weapon. (in FFXI Terms, a Great Katana, and a Katana)

That and if im reading it right the "Dual wield" Part was only a small portion of the technique/training, it also involved staff weapons, and a multitude of Single-Wielding techniques, in fact i think only 5 out of the ~40 some odd Techniques of that particular style of combat involved 2 weapons. Seen Here:


Today the following sets of techniques (waza or kata) are transmitted:

Tachi Seiho—Twelve techniques with long sword.
Nito Seiho—Five techniques with two swords corresponding to the five forms in the Water Scroll.
Kodachi Seiho—Seven techniques with a short sword.
Bōjutsu—Twenty techniques with a staff.
Aikuchi roppo[2][3]
Jitte to jutsu—Five techniques against a sword

(From Wiki) those are the techniques taught in Niten Ichi-Ryu, as you can see, Nito-Seiho is the only of the group involving 2 weapons.

So while it is in some way historically accurate (however it was a Large weapon (Katana) and a Small side arm (Wakizashi), not 2 Large weapons (Katana), it was only a small part of the Samurai's technique, even for the Niten Ichi-Ryu style.

I think it would likely be better as a Stance, similar to Hasso/Seigan in that case. but i don't know how that'd work.

[DarkBass]

Good finds. It would certainly be nice if we got to offhand a wakizashi. Would still fit the main point of faster tp gain. Would suck to have do all those skill ups but its nothing too difficult. I personally would like to see another great katana. SE has been creative with their additions so i dont think it would be too farfetched. But if this gets implimented and its a Great Katana and a katana id be happy.

[Wataruryu]

That style of combat is, from what i can tell:



a Great Katana, and a 1handed Katana, by FFXI standards, as its a Katana and a Wakizashi, a Large arm and a small arm.

I also found this: http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Nito.htm

and this Demonstration Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2YbZIEI5Gg

The guy on the right is the one using the Nito technique (during the first part of the video), however from the video you can tell one Katana is vastly smaller than the other, i think this was still a matter of a Large Weapon, and a Small weapon. (in FFXI Terms, a Great Katana, and a Katana)

That and if im reading it right the "Dual wield" Part was only a small portion of the technique/training, it also involved staff weapons, and a multitude of Single-Wielding techniques, in fact i think only 5 out of the ~40 some odd Techniques of that particular style of combat involved 2 weapons. Seen Here:



(From Wiki) those are the techniques taught in Niten Ichi-Ryu, as you can see, Nito-Seiho is the only of the group involving 2 weapons.

So while it is in some way historically accurate (however it was a Large weapon (Katana) and a Small side arm (Wakizashi), not 2 Large weapons (Katana), it was only a small part of the Samurai's technique, even for the Niten Ichi-Ryu style.

I think it would likely be better as a Stance, similar to Hasso/Seigan in that case. but i don't know how that'd work.

Awesome some one took the time to look up some of the info I imparted. Just wanted to point out like I did in one of my other post, is that the wiki does fall short on some of the information on the style. There are more then five techniques to the dual wield aspect, and your right there many other aspects to the training that goes with the style; Such as hand to hand i.e. jujutsu, but that is indicative of all koryu arts. The handling of two large katana is taught mostly as a battle field tactic; Not the one on one duel kata that makes up a large part of a kenjutsu artist training, and thats what seen on youtube.
Think of it like this, in a large claustrophobic battle field you need to maximize the area space around you to up your odds of survival. You've lost your naginata (which would be the most optimal weapon in the situation). You look to one of the downed solders near you to pick up one of his swords, logically which one would you choose the short one or the long one to maximize the area of protection on both sides of the body; Since the bulk of the samurai fights took place on battle fields like this, they needed to train for these situations. That's pretty much how it was explained to me at the last seminar I attended on it, when I asked about the reasoning behind the techniques they where showing us.
Anyway I'm rambling I get to excited talking martial arts, and tend to do that. Back to my point. I think its awesome you took the time to look up something new, and formulated some very valid points based off the information you did find. Oh and like the new sig Kingfury hooked you up. The whole suggestive look and boink made me lol. ^^

[Raka]

I feel this is a valid addtion for the DEV's to at least consider, since a good selection of updates to Samurai have been based off real life teachings and disciplines, and this only reinforces one of Samurai's strongest points. Fast tp gain.

Basically you're arguing the whole matter of giving Samurai the ability to dual wield with the weapon they specialize in for "faster TP gain"? I'm sorry, but Samurai has no problem with the way they accumulate TP and should some folks still have a problem with their TP accumulation, it will be less of an issue once Store TP V (and possibly Store TP VI by Lv.99) is added in the mix.

So my opinion still stands as is, no offense. Samurai does not need this ability. Just because it's an actual technique or teaching, etc. doesn't necessarily mean SquareEnix will(or should) impliment it.


With all due respect, It is not like merging Ninja and Samurai into one class. Because by that logic, You are saying Thief and Dancer are the same as Ninja, simply because they natively have Dual Wield. Hasso and Seigan wouldn't be affected at all by this addition (At least as far as my idea for the mechanics of it goes)because Great Katanas are still two handed weapons. Just Samurai's Mastery of the weapon would allow them to wield two, provided the offhand one is a Kanesada type.

Clearly you misunderstood my means of "Asking for this is like askin to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class." by thinking I was refering to "Dual Wield" only. To better explain my previous statement:

You are asking that Samurai attains the capability of either "Katana(1-Handed) usage in which Samurai now gets either a B- or A- in", "A new form of Weapon in which a whole new section of Weapon-type are to be created for the soul purpose of Off-hand usage for Samurai-specific only", or "The ability to wield two Great Katana."

Basically, it is in a sense just as though you want both Ninja characteristics and Samurai to be as one.

Please forgive me if any of this sounds as if I'm trolling or being rude in particular. No offense was intended while I wrote this. At any rate, I hope I had explained myself a little better.

[DarkBass]

You explained yourself well. And this was all on topic. No trace of Trolling at all

Its not that samurai has a problem accumulating tp, but it would accentuate its mastery over tp gain. I feel it would be something like this, If it comes down to offhanding another Great Katana it would really show individuality of this addtion with samurai. If it comes down to offhanding a wakizashi, I feel it would be like how ninja can use a Great katana. Efficent enough to be used for its purpose but not outshining. (I.E. TP Gain where as nin can use the elemental procs). If it comes down to just using a sword in the offhand it would simply be letting sam accentuate its tp gain mastery while joining in the shared joy of dual wielding like other jobs get.

As far as "needing" this job ability, no. its not a must. But neither was sengikori or sekkanoki. But they accentuated on another of sam's main traits. skillchain mastery. Wonderful additions that made sam even more fun to play, and i feel this would be right at home without breaking the game.

[Kazaki]

Go level NIN. I play SAM main and think this is an awful idea.

[DarkBass]

Go level NIN. I play SAM main and think this is an awful idea.

What does this statement suppose to even mean really? and why do you think this is an awful idea other than the fact you dont agree with it? Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it an awful idea. I welcome some explained feedback sir.

[Glacont]

I vote yes. I use to play "Yagyu Jubei" on Samurai Showdown all the time. It can be done. It will only take a little work to desgin the stance of each race. As for being Over powered, a balance system will need to be put in place for main hand and off-hand.

This is only an example: A weapon place in the offhand is reduce in power by whatever % the Dev Team feel is fair.

[Mirage]

It can be done. It will only take a little work to desgin the stance of each race.

Another reason why we'll never see this implemented.

[Atomic_Skull]

Lets just call this trait "Muchkin".

[Mirage]

That is a really amusing game, you know.

[Darkwizardzin]

....if sam's should get the ability to dual-wield GK then everyone should get to dual-wield everything.

That said... I want to be able to Dual-wield Staffs and I also want ninja to be able to dual-wield their dual-wield (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/27/episode-1087-exalted-feat/).

[Soranika]

O....M.....Gawd! I thought this thread was a myth!

[Rohelius]

Hes talking about this, and if u ask me it looks really cool in fighting games just not something FFXI can make work.
http://home8.swipnet.se/~w-85694/images/ss23.jpg

[Atomic_Skull]

Lets make it subbable like Dual Wield so DRK can dual wield scythes and great swords, WAR can dual wield great axes and DRG can dual wield lances. When dual welding two handed weapons the ACC/ATT bonus will be rescinded to keep things fair.

[OgreBattle]

Great Katanas look awesome wielded with both hands on the grip, they would look goofy with a huge sword in each hand. I trust that S-E COULD make it look good (and unlike say the goofy barbarians in diablo), but I don't think it's necissary.

I'd rather have the opposite and have Ninjas use only one katana. Because ninjas look awesome with only one katana.

*a mechanical benefit for doing so of course. Redmages can also equip hth's if they wanted but there's no benefit for that.

[Mirage]

You can do that by unequipping your sub slot weapon.

[Sargent]

If you're gonna dual wield great katanas, I want to dual wield staves on smn and blm.

I only bothered to read the OP, so I'm sure others have pointed this out: Seriously, this idea has been put forward 5 million times, has absolutely no place in FFXI and 99% of the player base think it's a completely stupid idea.

[Winrie]

I got to hand it to the op, not only did he suggest the dumbest crap I ever read on this forum that would not work, but I'm knocking down rdm dd ideas as #1 dumbest suggestion ever and making dual wield gkt take it's place.


Dual wielding guns, now there's an idea worth a thought

[Karumac]

GKATANA dual wield ups your Parry rate and slows attacking
. Now it has a place for super tank mode.

[Ophannus]

How about this: Give stupid Samurais their dual weild weapons but then remove Hasso and Seigen and give it to DRG and DRK since these jobs ONLY use 2h hand weapons. Hasso/Seigen wouldn't work for SAM if they dual wield, might as well give it to another job that makes better use of it. DRK and DRG ONLY use 2h weapons so they ought to get it, WAR uses 2h too but they also specialize in 1h axe so it's unfitting for them(plus they don't need it).

[Zerich]

hey guise, i think we really need to look into the possibility of PLDs dual wielding Ochain's and Aegis'! because in real-life, i can hold two shields at once.

[Orenwald]

I'm surprised that it hasn't been specifically mentioned, but there IS a job that Dual wields using a Wakizashi! It exists already.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi

see? If you want to Dual Wield with a Wakizashi.... Level Ninja <.<

[Concerned4FFxi]

But wouldn't the delay from the 2nd weapon ruin the whole store tp set up that makes sam in this game?

[Glacont]

But wouldn't the delay from the 2nd weapon ruin the whole store tp set up that makes sam in this game?

That's a Good Question. It would depend upon how the Dev Team Approaches this scenario if dual weild is put into practice.

[GailC]

give Samurai a trait representative or derivative of Nitojutsu (i.e. Augmenting a 2H weapon with a 1H weapon equiped in the offhand slot) --

I wonder if this was originally what SE intended, but eventually put the idea on the backburner: if you play around with Altana View, you'll find that Great Katanas can be set as main-hand weapons for dual-wield animations, meaning it's possible (in the viewer, at least) to wield a Great Katana and a one-handed katana or sword at the same time. You can't do this with other two-handed weapons; not even great swords (although I believe it's possible to wield great swords, or even polearms, scythes and great axes while equipping a shield in the viewer)

Since, in game, Great Katanas are flagged as 2 handed weapons, there's coding in the way right now of doing it, but in terms of programming, all they would have to do is add a trait to Samurai that worked like Dual Wield when a great katana is equipped in the main hand. Mechanically, the game is already set up to allow such.

As for how to balance such an ability... this is Samurai we're talking about.

[DarkBass]

Its nice to see this thread continued, sad to see the laziness people have for not reading all the design ideas people have been throwing around, or not reading the intelligent disagreements made already. The point is, if SE did impliment this, it would work. They design and code the game. They can tweak it however they want. Hell they nerfed restraint and im not even sure why. From a firsthand experience it didn't seem broken. Point is, all of you people that think this idea is stupid simply because you don't agree with it and the lackluster attempt to give a reason is "it wouldn't work" Is just not valid.

They run the game so they can make it work anyway they like/see fit. Please come with something more than a one line response in disagreement at an attempt to make others laugh lol.

[Kimikryo]

dual wielding for sams is something I really really miss, I want my SAM to be able to use Niten Ichiryuu. Katana + wakizashi (miyamoto musashi anyone?).
I am honestly confused that samurais in ffxi just can use Nodachis and no normal katanas. We dont even get that special nodachi drawing style that Sephiroth uses in Ehrgeiz, which is a well known style.

[DarkBass]

Seem's like SE's reference to draw style is the kasha and fudo weaponskills. If anything that style would probably be best implimented as a pre ws ja.

[BT75]

http://i44.tinypic.com/125rhw1.jpg

[DarkBass]

Hilarious lmao

[BT75]

Hilarious lmao

Well if SAM can dual wield GK's, then I expect WAR to dual wield GA's.

[Delvish]

As amusing as this ability seems, I can see this being added to our list of potential two-hour merits.

[Geabrielle]

If Samurai is given the capability to duel wield, I would like to quadra-wield great swords in a fast flurry of angry vengeful psychosis. Why not add the ability to inflict death with my sensual Mithran gaze while we're at it?? Or better yet...

Let Paladin's duel wield shields and throw those bastards like Captain America!!

[Saiken253]

Well if SAM can dual wield GK's, then I expect WAR to dual wield GA's.

And the DRK's be able to dual wield any 2handed weapon(because that's our specialty). Apoc/Cala okgo

114 base str says I should be able to do this :<

[saevel]

Well ... from a mechanics point of view wouldn't be hard. They could code it as two one handed weapons and treat it accordingly. Delay 1 + Delay 2 * .DW Percentage

You'd lose your Attack / Acc bonus though because your no longer using two hands.

Could even do the reverse, if your wielding a one handed weapon without a shield, then treat it as a 2h weapon for mechanics purpose (Attack / Acc.

[DarkBass]

They wouldn't implement this without reworking hasso to work for samurai specifically in this way.

[Rewyen]

I wanna dual wield lightsabers... I saw that on TV once, so...

[DarkBass]

I wanna dual wield lightsabers... I saw that on TV once, so...

Then you'll love the new star wars mmo^^

[Darwena]

After "Naruto" fans on NIN tread... here the "Teenages Mutans Ninjas Turtles: Leonardo" fans on SAM one...

[Darrt]

Dual Wielding is for scrubs, a real SAM triple wields.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57054/1507336-roronoa_zoro_by_aes_kawa_super.jpg

[Karah]

http://i50.tinypic.com/e027au.png

No, REAL Samurais wield SIX Katanas.

Azure Dragon like a BAWSE.

http://i49.tinypic.com/25qqjgh.jpg

[Return1]

Just to nitpick, why would you call it bushido? Bushido has nothing to do with nitoryu. Wanna point out that, historically, Nitoryu can be performed with 2 blades of medium length or a large katana and small katana.

[Horadrim]

Just to nitpick, why would you call it bushido? Bushido has nothing to do with nitoryu. Wanna point out that, historically, Nitoryu can be performed with 2 blades of medium length or a large katana and small katana.

The proper name for the ability is actually Monkey Grip, and it is, historically, a Warrior ability.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment_Abilities. Then subbing NIN or DNC would allow them dual wield 2H weapons. Frankly if dual wielding 2H weapons became possible it would be Warrior who should get it. It's definitely not something Samurai needs.

Samurai should get Doublehand and deal additional damage with any 2H weapon. It already has 2H boons, Doublehand or or Iaido weapon skills would make a lot more sense.

Meditate -> Iaido (buffs/debuffs/Generates additional TP) -> Auto Attacks etc etc etc sounds much more logical.

I always thought Samurai would have been cool with stances, personally.

[saevel]

Monkey Grip on a 2H weapon would be interesting, as long as SE implemented such that it treated it as a 1H weapon. It would lose the 2H Attack / Accuracy and Ratio bonus's but gain the ability to be DW for additional delay reduction. Would have a REALLY long attack round delay though.

[StingRay104]

but the question that many seem to be missing in this thread is......what would be the benefit? Seriously I have read post after post about how to make sure it is not over powered, but the question still remains why should I use this method over normal method? Does it net you faster tp at the cost of slower attack rounds? Does it have an increase to ws damage? Now before people start with the "well you can equip an occ att gkt in off hand," ya thats equipment boosts. I want to know what the ability brings to the table. Example: Kick Attacks, it reduces the amount of attacks down but increases damage. However as anyone whose ever leveled mnk before knows this ability is useless because it was implemented wrong. But this is my point, I want to know what it can offer besides dual wielding gkt. I want something unique, something useful, something that makes me say "Hey lets use this."

[saevel]

Umm it would definitely boost your WS, having a guaranteed off hand hit with a DMG 120~160+ weapon kind of does that. Also could increase your melee DPS depending on your target. DW does really well against targets that are T~VT or lower.

On the other side of that coin, there should be an ability to wield a 1H weapon in both hands. Would treat it was a "2H" weapon for the function of Acc/Atk/ Ratio and JA's. Give it to DRK cause of the possibility of the upcoming modification to LR.

[StingRay104]

Umm it would definitely boost your WS, having a guaranteed off hand hit with a DMG 120~160+ weapon kind of does that. Also could increase your melee DPS depending on your target. DW does really well against targets that are T~VT or lower.

On the other side of that coin, there should be an ability to wield a 1H weapon in both hands. Would treat it was a "2H" weapon for the function of Acc/Atk/ Ratio and JA's. Give it to DRK cause of the possibility of the upcoming modification to LR.

Ok so your response is dual wield is the benefit. Ok well seeing as how it would be faster to build tp with just going 2handed and the faster we get tp the more ws this makes this ability useless. Also when it comes down to it SE would implement off hand only gkt for this ability and they would be really weak or just katana. Also duel wield has an automatic hit on ws.......are you serious. I've played the game since Jan. 2005 and I have never heard anything like this regarding duel wield.

Come on surely someone can come up with something that would make this ability worthwhile other than duel wield gkt with huge restrictions. First off you lose Hasso and Seigan for this ability, so we need something to counter this loss.

[Cabalabob]

Also duel wield has an automatic hit on ws.......are you serious. I've played the game since Jan. 2005 and I have never heard anything like this regarding duel wield.

Yes, when you're dual wielding, physical weapon skills gain an extra hit. This is common knowledge.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dual_Wield

"During physical-damage Weapon Skills, an extra hit is performed with the secondary weapon. This does not apply to elemental Weapon Skills (such as Shining Strike) or special Weapon Skills such as Spirits Within."

[Yrusama]

Thing about 2-handed weapons is you can't equip an off-hand. I don't think they'd go through the trouble of adding a slew of new animations for one class, let alone break whatever code dictates that you can't use a second weapon if both hands are occupied by a larger one.

Would be neat, though.

[saevel]

Ok so your response is dual wield is the benefit. Ok well seeing as how it would be faster to build tp with just going 2handed and the faster we get tp the more ws this makes this ability useless. Also when it comes down to it SE would implement off hand only gkt for this ability and they would be really weak or just katana. Also duel wield has an automatic hit on ws.......are you serious. I've played the game since Jan. 2005 and I have never heard anything like this regarding duel wield.

Come on surely someone can come up with something that would make this ability worthwhile other than duel wield gkt with huge restrictions. First off you lose Hasso and Seigan for this ability, so we need something to counter this loss.


I'm at a loss for words .....
I don't want to be snarky and rude yet this guy is practically begging for it. Maybe he's trolling everyone or something ... not sure...

[Horadrim]

I'd really just prefer for them to UP Samurai's Ranged and give us Bow WSs.

[hiko]

Yes, when you're dual wielding, physical weapon skills gain an extra hit. This is common knowledge.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dual_Wield

"During physical-damage Weapon Skills, an extra hit is performed with the secondary weapon. This does not apply to elemental Weapon Skills (such as Shining Strike) or special Weapon Skills such as Spirits Within."

yep and as
If single-handed weapons are Dual Wielded, the weapon skills gain 1 additional hit which return the same amount of TP as if 1 hit is landed
now gear for a 4hit build and you get WS=>1round=>WS.



Umm it would definitely boost your WS, having a guaranteed off hand hit with a DMG 120~160+ weapon kind of does that. Also could increase your melee DPS depending on your target. DW does really well against targets that are T~VT or lower.



120-160dmg from off hand? not that much (amano and masa99 are "only" 132)
+ offhand hit on shoha wont get attack boost

if weapon are no longer treated as 2H MG DW sam have low attack (0 attack trait, loss of hasso, loss of /war) no native multihit (lol zanshin without hasso) and can no longer cap DR, loose aftermatch/relic proc on off hand (if RME sam)
= it wont increase you melee DPS

edit and i hate that "monkey grip" name

[saevel]

120-160dmg from off hand? not that much (amano and masa99 are "only" 132)
+ offhand hit on shoha wont get attack boost

if weapon are no longer treated as 2H MG DW sam have low attack (0 attack trait, loss of hasso, loss of /war) no native multihit (lol zanshin without hasso) and can no longer cap DR, loose aftermatch/relic proc on off hand (if RME sam)
= it wont increase you melee DPS

I realize your lost in the "must prove someone wrong on the internet" but you kinda missed the entire discussion.

We were talking about giving the 2H DW ability either to SAM natively or WAR / DRK. Thus your premise of SAM/NIN is immediately wrong. It would be SAM/WAR or SAM/DRK in all situations and thus an attack boosting JA will be present.

The off hand hit gets the same WSC bonus as the main hand hit and is only missing the fTP multiplier. For a WS like Shoha it would definitely add a chunk of damage, woudln't double it or anything stupid but would be noticeable. Finially your melee damage would be increased via the direct DPS buff that is DW. 30% DW is a 42.85% increase in melee damage, you'd have to be rocking 65~70% haste before the 10% JA from hasso would beat the 30% boost from DW.

Now quick come up with more nonsensical conclusions based on faulty premises then declare yourself the "winnar!!".

[hiko]

I realize your lost in the "must prove someone wrong on the internet" but you kinda missed the entire discussion.
We were talking about giving the 2H DW ability either to SAM natively or WAR / DRK. Thus your premise of SAM/NIN is immediately wrong. It would be SAM/WAR or SAM/DRK in all situations and thus an attack boosting JA will be present

I realize you are overreacting and have missed as much as me the discussion
top of page post (with my ppp):
The proper name for the ability is actually Monkey Grip, and it is, historically, a Warrior ability.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment_Abilities. Then subbing NIN or DNC would allow them dual wield 2H weapons.

OP:

Since Samurai in real life were able to dual wield Light Katana blades, I think this would be a great, and refreshing addition to Samurai. I was thinking the Mechanics would work as follows.

- Offhand Great Katanas can only be Kanesada type blades since they are the lightest type of Great Katana in the game.

- To make sure Samurai is not overpowered, the tp gained from the offhand Great Katana would either be 1/2 or 1/3 of the main Great Katana's tp gain.

I do feel this addition won't overpower Samurai and really stick to the realistic additions that have already been implimented to Samurai already. Possibly add a different dual wield stance for Samurai.

Thank you for the read and please consider this for the future updates.
not working exactly like DW



The off hand hit gets the same WSC bonus as the main hand hit and is only missing the fTP multiplier. For a WS like Shoha it would definitely add a chunk of damage, woudln't double it or anything stupid but would be noticeable.
was talking about the pDiff boost that only aply on 1st hit , and didnt say that it wouldnt increas your WS dmg but less than what you said.
if you use kanto the TPbonus boost will surpass the extra hit boost.
and if you want to talk about caped or near pDiff then you shouldn't use shoha.


Finially your melee damage would be increased via the direct DPS buff that is DW. 30% DW is a 42.85% increase in melee damage, you'd have to be rocking 65~70% haste before the 10% JA from hasso would beat the 30% boost from DW.

LQ brd (+2 horn,+1hands) is enough to get enough haste (64) so the 12.5 (with haidate+2) haste from hasso beat 30DW in attack speed (and doesnt lower TP/hit)
in caped magic/gear haste hasso cap DR, 30DW don't

but yes in low man (no brd,no embrava) and assuming that sam doesnt loose sub, 30DW increase DPS more than hasso




Now quick come up with more nonsensical conclusions based on faulty premises then declare yourself the "winnar!!".
ok!

[SpankWustler]

After you guys are done having a serious discussion about the second-goofiest thing ever suggested on these forums, could one of you detail the various equipment options that would open up if pants could be equipped in the head slot?

The metal "garters" of subligaria would be worn as hoop earrings, if anybody is wondering.

[Delvish]

After you guys are done having a serious discussion about the second-goofiest thing ever suggested on these forums...

What is the first?

[Llana_Virren]

What is the first?

The possibility of SE un-nerfing RDM.

[Demon6324236]

The metal "garters" of subligaria would be worn as hoop earrings, if anybody is wondering.^^^^^^^^^^

[Masekase]

1. You are right, They are called Katanas. But not the katanas that ninja's wield in this game. The correct name for them is Wakizashi since they are shorter than Katana blades. Sam's is called Great Katana simply to differenciate from ninja's weapon name. 2, it would not look silly for Samurai to dual wield great katanas, as it doesnt look silly when they have done it IRL and in things drawn/put on tv. Watch some more tv and look it up on the internet and get more informed about the subject.


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi say no more

*Never noticed mention just read page 6