Book burning ruined 5-man groups

[geekgirl101]

I was under the impression that level syncing allowed players from all levels to team up with lower level buddies who were constantly stuck seeking a party of players their own level, and that books were to help players to earn experience point bonuses, gain buffs, and a little extra gil to allow for solo play.

For a short while it seemed to work...people teaming together in zones like Valkurm, Qufim and Yuhtunga Jungle and partying together without the fear of outlevelling each other. That was, until people discovered that by teaming together in an alliance in dungeons and doing ground valor pages over and over fighting easy prey targets gave more experience points for less effort. This coupled together with lower levels being taken to Zehrun Mines by higher levels to leech from the ground valor manuals and Abyssea alliances with lower levels taking advantage of the domninion operations manuals means that once more zones such as Valkurm Dunes, Qufim, and the two jungles have become abandoned zones with players still stuck seeking for a party if they are wanting a legit party or the book burning alliance for their level is full.

My question to SE is was this intended? To have players take part in mindless zerging or leeching without needing to upgrade their gear or spells until they hit level 90 within a couple of days with no decent skills? There's another game that does this, it's called World of Warcraft, and I came to FFXI to escape from that.

[Kwate]

The name of the game is exp/time efficiency, the old style is dead and the game evolved. I for one don't miss it a bit, but I do understand where you're coming from. Old days where you spend hours and hours waiting for an invite on certain jobs such as BLU, MNK, DRK, etc. the new isn't so prejudice about certain job types which is a breath of fresh air.

[Kraggy]

I don't see a problem here.

Since SE have changed FFXI from being based in Vana'diel to a game based in Abyssea then they just want everyone at 90 as soon as possible. I don't do these GoV alliances, but I see no difference between those and the 'old days' BLM, SMN, TP burn parties.

As for skills, SE also made skilling up quicker and easier so even if you do get to 90 only by running level 20 GoVs (or whatever), capping skills takes only a day or two, maybe less if you can find a friendly power-leveler to tank the mobs for you.

I for one am glad the old "sit in Jueno for hours and days just to be able to play" is dead and gone.

[Geebee]

The game has evolved greatly from the old and early days of FFXI were you were limited to member job levels of 3 or less, level sync breathed a new lease of life into partys until abssea was relased, SE must have quickly realised that the players outside of abyssea would struggle with finding groups and exp partys which is why they overhauled the FOV book and up'ed the solo exp per kill on mobs, so sadly SE has in-advertently pushed people to solo their chosen jobs to 30+ because 95% of al the servers are busy in abyssea.

Sadly the game has changed dramatically from the early days and no matter how much time and effort SE commit into developing a "Balanced gameplay" there will always be peolple who take and find an easier option, people forget all to easily that the game is played by two distinct types, PEOPLE WHO PLAY FOR FUN AND PEOPLE WHO PLAY FOR BUSINESS.

The game is RIFE with people who use this game as a REAL LIFE JOB to earn a living.

IN GAME:
*SELL YOUR CHARACTER -FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*SELL YOUR GIL- FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*POWER LEVEL OTHER PEOPLE CHARACTERS- FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*SELL YOUR ITEMS FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*FARM ITEMS FOR PEOPLE FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

These type of people will always find the easier way, and when you think the game to them is a business you can see why.

My best advice is just have fun and make the most of each party you get as they are a rare thing these days

[Ravenmore]

The game has evolved greatly from the old and early days of FFXI were you were limited to member job levels of 3 or less, level sync breathed a new lease of life into partys until abssea was relased, SE must have quickly realised that the players outside of abyssea would struggle with finding groups and exp partys which is why they overhauled the FOV book and up'ed the solo exp per kill on mobs, so sadly SE has in-advertently pushed people to solo their chosen jobs to 30+ because 95% of al the servers are busy in abyssea.

Sadly the game has changed dramatically from the early days and no matter how much time and effort SE commit into developing a "Balanced gameplay" there will always be peolple who take and find an easier option, people forget all to easily that the game is played by two distinct types, PEOPLE WHO PLAY FOR FUN AND PEOPLE WHO PLAY FOR BUSINESS.

The game is RIFE with people who use this game as a REAL LIFE JOB to earn a living.

IN GAME:
*SELL YOUR CHARACTER -FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*SELL YOUR GIL- FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*POWER LEVEL OTHER PEOPLE CHARACTERS- FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*SELL YOUR ITEMS FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

*FARM ITEMS FOR PEOPLE FOR REAL LIFE MONEY

These type of people will always find the easier way, and when you think the game to them is a business you can see why.

My best advice is just have fun and make the most of each party you get as they are a rare thing these days

Your also makeing wild assumtions about why people will pick the fastest way and with least effort. Doesn't matter if its RMT or avg players. Getting leveling done as fast as you can is the out come of making all the content for endgame players. Leveling for a large amount of long term players has lost all its fun factor. 6 man parties are dead for leveling may they rest in peace.

[geekgirl101]

From a personal point of view I didn't mind so much waiting for a party since the level sync opened up new opportunities and reduced waiting time, and having an option to solo was a very good change from SE since before it wasn't possible to solo or took way too long on specialised jobs.

If this idea to encourage people to leech experience points from higher level players or killing easy prey in alliance groups to earn experience points from books is to get to level 90 as fast as they can (one player did it in 2 days for example), then I ask what is the point in getting to 90 so quickly? Isn't part of the game levelling up with people and getting to know each other and learning from experience? World of Warcraft evolved into that phase of levelling as fast as possible and it drove a lot of people away because it lost all its challenges and resulted in a clueless and greedy population that only cared about getting the best gear.

[Rafien]

I am quite annoyed that at level 30 the only real chance to get a party is to go to crawlers nest and join an alliance that is doing page 1. At 2.3K per page You can level every 3 pages and just sit back and relax as people destroy the crawlers and bees.

0-30 in 1 day (half day), 30-40 in 3 hours at crawlers nest, it almost makes me sad when I look and see that It took me years to get to 70 on DRK.

[Ravenmore]

I am quite annoyed that at level 30 the only real chance to get a party is to go to crawlers nest and join an alliance that is doing page 1. At 2.3K per page You can level every 3 pages and just sit back and relax as people destroy the crawlers and bees.

0-30 in 1 day (half day), 30-40 in 3 hours at crawlers nest, it almost makes me sad when I look and see that It took me years to get to 70 on DRK.

That is why people are sick of 6 man parties. It would different if there was any real content for low levels that had any kind of decent rewards. CoP proved that people didn't bother with doing the content as they leveled. Why should I spend 75% of my time in game looking for a party and all the content is at level cap.

I can count on one hand how many friends I made in exp parties. Old exp parties by the end of 2 or 3 hours of doing nothing but focusing on the fight cause if you chatted to much and mobs started taking to long to die you killing your exp and that of the rest of the party. Its not only your 12.95 its mine, and I don't want to talk when it slows down leveling.If anything now BSing in a party doesn't hurt exp gained so it is easier to meet and get to know people in exp.

[Mezzopiano]

While I'm glad to see less job exclusion, I must say I dislike alliance EXP overall because it is horribly uncoordinated and chaotic, and lends itself far too well to gimps and leechers. Sure, arguably 6-man EXP did as well, but at least there they were easier to spot.

[Rafien]

That is why people are sick of 6 man parties. It would different if there was any real content for low levels that had any kind of decent rewards. CoP proved that people didn't bother with doing the content as they leveled. Why should I spend 75% of my time in game looking for a party and all the content is at level cap.

I can count on one hand how many friends I made in exp parties. Old exp parties by the end of 2 or 3 hours of doing nothing but focusing on the fight cause if you chatted to much and mobs started taking to long to die you killing your exp and that of the rest of the party. Its not only your 12.95 its mine, and I don't want to talk when it slows down leveling.If anything now BSing in a party doesn't hurt exp gained so it is easier to meet and get to know people in exp.

Easier to meet people when you spend every second running from mob to mob in crawlers nest, zero time to rest for mp, if you stop and type a sentence you're already too far away from the party to get the kill count. - Side note: The LS I'm in that is probably the most helpful, fun, and rewarding LS I've ever been in was found on a exp party about 3 months ago.

6 years ago, you were booted out of a party if you didn't know how to do Skill chains.. People aren't learning their weapons, they aren't skilling their weapons, they don't even know how to play their characters. Was in a party the other day, and the WHM didn't even have Protectra II because they didn't need it skilling with books.

With my Scythe, I can name every skill chain it goes with to maximize damage done. Can most new players even name one? No because they never even seen them happen. You use to have to macro TP Ready for use, now people look at you like you're and idiot and don't have a clue why you're announcing you're ready to use your weapon skill.


EDIT:
What they need to do, remove the books and take it back to parties. But allow level sync players to gain skills while they fight. So if your buddy that is level 50 decides he'll help and join your party at level 30, the mobs he fights, should increase his overall weapon skill as if he was level 50. This would increase the people who want to level sync and join parties.

If I level sync, I fight for 5 levels and get out of the party so I can then go level my weapons. This becomes harder as DRK soloing is not exactly suppose to happen.

[Kwate]

While I'm glad to see less job exclusion, I must say I dislike alliance EXP overall because it is horribly uncoordinated and chaotic, and lends itself far too well to gimps and leechers. Sure, arguably 6-man EXP did as well, but at least there they were easier to spot.

That is part of the fun, I can't tell you how many times I fell asleep in a 6 man party or bored out of my mind, this also alleviates if 1 or 2 people leave it doesn't kill the party if no rep is available.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

They didn't ruin anything. You don't need parties. I hadn't been in an XP pt for 2 years until abyssea. Books = good.

[Covenant]

The "grind" is still a grind... Just a faster way. Most people have no intention of leveln multiple jobs, but for those of us who do, we appreciate a faster system eve if unintentional. I did a few job the old way, and a few job the new ways and appreciate both styles. The fast way is gonna cost you some serious skill up'n...which is a grind. Even with the skill bonus from pages still wasting time whacking weak mobs to decent and even matches.

[geekgirl101]

What they need to do, remove the books and take it back to parties. But allow level sync players to gain skills while they fight. So if your buddy that is level 50 decides he'll help and join your party at level 30, the mobs he fights, should increase his overall weapon skill as if he was level 50. This would increase the people who want to level sync and join parties.

If I level sync, I fight for 5 levels and get out of the party so I can then go level my weapons. This becomes harder as DRK soloing is not exactly suppose to happen.

I certainly agree on the need for being able to skill up while synced. Since almost every party I'm in is level synced my skills are always gimped as a result.

As for an idea to deal with the alliancing and leeching situation I'd say put back the level limit on Abyssea maws and change non-Abyssea books so you can only pick up pages that within your level limit range (1-xx) and don't gain progress in an alliance. Personally I wouldn't miss alliance book burning, people might actually learn how to play their jobs and appreciate being a party member and not just someone tagging along taking everything for granted.

[Kwate]

Why? people will find another way to get fast exp. Leveling up slower isn't going to help people become better players, it just slows the exp process. If you feel that strongly, feel free to start your own conventional party.

Abyss and burns are popular because it speeds up the exp process and eliminate alot of BS prejudices against various jobs, why should it take a DRK or MNK 3-4 times as long to level up as a SAM, both are good in their role? Also it keeps the exp flowing while if 1-2 people have to leave, or if your tank or mage has to go afk, it can keep going almost uninterrupted. I think SE did the right thing, it gives alot more flexibility in the leveling up process and takes alot of unnecessary politics out of the equation.

[geekgirl101]

Give a person everything they want just to swing their epeen about how fast it took them to get to 90, and what you get is a seriously lazy, selfish, gimped and unskilled person wasting a good spot in an endgame situation.

[Ravenmore]

Easier to meet people when you spend every second running from mob to mob in crawlers nest, zero time to rest for mp, if you stop and type a sentence you're already too far away from the party to get the kill count. - Side note: The LS I'm in that is probably the most helpful, fun, and rewarding LS I've ever been in was found on a exp party about 3 months ago.

6 years ago, you were booted out of a party if you didn't know how to do Skill chains.. People aren't learning their weapons, they aren't skilling their weapons, they don't even know how to play their characters. Was in a party the other day, and the WHM didn't even have Protectra II because they didn't need it skilling with books.

With my Scythe, I can name every skill chain it goes with to maximize damage done. Can most new players even name one? No because they never even seen them happen. You use to have to macro TP Ready for use, now people look at you like you're and idiot and don't have a clue why you're announcing you're ready to use your weapon skill.


EDIT:
What they need to do, remove the books and take it back to parties. But allow level sync players to gain skills while they fight. So if your buddy that is level 50 decides he'll help and join your party at level 30, the mobs he fights, should increase his overall weapon skill as if he was level 50. This would increase the people who want to level sync and join parties.

If I level sync, I fight for 5 levels and get out of the party so I can then go level my weapons. This becomes harder as DRK soloing is not exactly suppose to happen.

You know why SC+MB was a bad idea, because the players were to dumb to do the math. If it takes you 5 mins to kill one mob for 400 XP and you could kill 3 mobs in that same time for 150 xp Which one is getting more exp.

If you tried that in old 6 man parties you would get kicked. Now if you do it who cares it only hurting you not the rest of the group. Take away the books, people will go back to Qufim TP burning Ts and VTs.

Skilling up takes time but mages can by pass it mostly with /sch and HQ staffs for everything in abyssea. Melees can afk skill up or preskill/premerit Weapons.

[Ravenmore]

Give a person everything they want just to swing their epeen about how fast it took them to get to 90, and what you get is a seriously lazy, selfish, gimped and unskilled person wasting a good spot in an endgame situation.

Nothing has changed since 75 retarded players made it to endgame just as easy as now. In the old days it was called leveling brd auto-invite to endgame, exp anything they wanted since it freed someone else to play a job they enjoyed.

[Octaviane]

Nothing has changed since 75 retarded players made it to endgame just as easy as now. In the old days it was called leveling brd auto-invite to endgame, exp anything they wanted since it freed someone else to play a job they enjoyed.

75 = skilled, usually well-geared (worked for it too) players, 90 = Abyssea leech 30 -90 in less than a day, no skills, but oh my, I have great gear, an Empyrean Weapon or 10 and it only took me a day to get.

I saw a WAR85/DNC42 yesterday taking the ferry from Mhaura to WG. He was sporting a Rune Chopper ( a nice GA pre 75), no Grip, Perle everything, Warrior's Belt (not even +1), Puissance rings, a low level Boomerang in ranged and a Spike earring. Don't remember the other. He did have a Chiv Chain. Yes, he Abyssea burned, and no I am not critcising his gear because it was obvious he had Abyssea burned.

What was he doing on the ferry? The same that I was as a level 30 THF (mule). Going to WG to get a Runic Portal in order to become a Merc, get Mog Locker and WG warp from the 3 nations and Jeuno. He chose Halvung, I chose Azouph. Point? Didn't we all have this done pre level 50 before? Now, the thing is to get to 90 then go back and skill-up and do all those things that should have, could have been done sooner. All the fun, and I will admit tedium at times, has been taken out of the game. Much as I have enjoyed Abyssea, it bores me to death to spend hours there doing the same crap over and over again. At least with the old style levelling parties, we had fun, we spoke to one another, made friends and had a good old time and we didn't have to spend endless hours at it. Sure, in old style endgame there was a lot of greed, elitism, whining and bitching, but the same applies now in the new endgame.

Everything is different, but all remains the same when you take a good look at it over the years.

I play for fun these days on a mule. I am enjoying the heck out of it despite the tedium. That's what this game means to me anyway. :)

[Defiledsickness]

the only difference is now you CAN level quick. you still get normal party invites faster then when i started playing about 4years ago before level syncing. the only things we've lost is EXP in old OLD areas like the bibiki bay, having to pay for a PL (100k/hour shouts in the dunes used to be as bad as RMT tells were last year), we lost Whitegate pretty much completely, and we did kinda lose whm's and plds thanks to abyssea.

but book burns are a godsend. i mean you talk about people not knowing how to skillchain, do you really want to 6man party with those people? because having a dnc tank and a dnc main heal, that's not fun imo. and if you care about gimps, dont worry! they can still get decent gear, but they'll never be decent unless they put in actual work. idc about who gets what, i only get satisfaction from killing something hard thanks to my dedication and skill.

if you're really mad it must be because you're too lazy to setup a party (which most of us are). because there are a ton of people with their flag up waiting for any invite (and back in the day you still had to teach people about SC's, it took me forever to even understand the concept. not sure why lol).

[Galadrial]

World of Warcraft evolved into that phase of levelling as fast as possible and it drove a lot of people away because it lost all its challenges and resulted in a clueless and greedy population that only cared about getting the best gear.


Hope that this isn't so, but it does seem to be the way XI is going ><. Personally i don't leech xp and haven't really done much GoV/FoV other than when i needed in order to keep tabs up. I have no problem with people doing that if they wish, but being afk and just leeching doesn't make for very skilled players, especially so if that player is new to the game.

[Smokenttp]

what about some little changes to lvl sync sistem, 1st and most obivious would be the skill gain while synced the secound one tough is a bit more interresting , i propose an exp bonus for higer level players synced that works ONLY if they are not in an alliance (its easy to do that just a boolean true or false), why you ask me? ansewer is simple lets say you and a friend are 1 year to finish high scool and start playing the game, then when you move to university you meet new friends and introduces then to the game, if a single ppl join the game you are probably high level with several jobs and for the most of the time will not want to help your friend leveling up because for you is not worth it.

lets picture a scene here you are an 80 whm and your friend an war lvl 30 call you for a sync pt and you decide to join, something will come into play now thats called sense of achivement, while you party for about 4 hours and your friend jumps an outstanding 15 levels, you leveled once. so in most cases people will not sync down because its not worth their time its unmotivational and at the same time lower levels dont get pts and becomes unmotivated to play the game, on the other hand if the said whm could skill up and make i dont know about 4k exp (exp should be calculated around level diference) a mob it would pretty much level at the same rate as the war and feel a better sence of achivement.
of course like someone mentioned earlier there will be aways people abusing the system but i belive that more people will enjoy it like that,this would actually make exp pts worth again and alliviate abyssea and book burning as ways of leveling up.

this would acctually might solve both of these problems and also most people needs someone to introduce then to the game in order to play. its a good slice of the market.what do you guys think?

sry for rushed text and bad english.

[Kwate]

The way I see it, 3 things you can't avoid in life: death, taxes, and gimp players in FFXI (no way around it). It's going to happen rather you hit 90 in 3 days or 30. I can't tell you how many bad jobs I seen along the way to 75 via the conventional party method, at least with book burning 1-2 unskilled players isn't going to kill your exp or breakup your group. With that being said I do like having the various options now of how I have level up.

[Ravenmore]

75 = skilled, usually well-geared (worked for it too) players, 90 = Abyssea leech 30 -90 in less than a day, no skills, but oh my, I have great gear, an Empyrean Weapon or 10 and it only took me a day to get.

I saw a WAR85/DNC42 yesterday taking the ferry from Mhaura to WG. He was sporting a Rune Chopper ( a nice GA pre 75), no Grip, Perle everything, Warrior's Belt (not even +1), Puissance rings, a low level Boomerang in ranged and a Spike earring. Don't remember the other. He did have a Chiv Chain. Yes, he Abyssea burned, and no I am not critcising his gear because it was obvious he had Abyssea burned.

What was he doing on the ferry? The same that I was as a level 30 THF (mule). Going to WG to get a Runic Portal in order to become a Merc, get Mog Locker and WG warp from the 3 nations and Jeuno. He chose Halvung, I chose Azouph. Point? Didn't we all have this done pre level 50 before? Now, the thing is to get to 90 then go back and skill-up and do all those things that should have, could have been done sooner. All the fun, and I will admit tedium at times, has been taken out of the game. Much as I have enjoyed Abyssea, it bores me to death to spend hours there doing the same crap over and over again. At least with the old style levelling parties, we had fun, we spoke to one another, made friends and had a good old time and we didn't have to spend endless hours at it. Sure, in old style endgame there was a lot of greed, elitism, whining and bitching, but the same applies now in the new endgame.

Everything is different, but all remains the same when you take a good look at it over the years.

I play for fun these days on a mule. I am enjoying the heck out of it despite the tedium. That's what this game means to me anyway. :)

It did not I had to kick so many players in parties 20-75 over the years. Also that GA used to be a godly weapon but thats nither here nor there. I seen more 4/5 af drgs 5/5 blus rdms whms list goes on at 75 the old way. Rose tinted glasses. That could also had been some one buring up a alt to proc which doesn't need any kind of gear. Crappy players have been in this game forever. Ever had a brd or rdm D/C in you merit party only to come back pop a warp reflag in WG cause you weren't getting 25k a hour. Those players werte gimp rdms and brds burning merits for jobs they wanted. I happy now that I can pass both over now for exp.

[Ravenmore]

From a personal point of view I didn't mind so much waiting for a party since the level sync opened up new opportunities and reduced waiting time, and having an option to solo was a very good change from SE since before it wasn't possible to solo or took way too long on specialised jobs.

If this idea to encourage people to leech experience points from higher level players or killing easy prey in alliance groups to earn experience points from books is to get to level 90 as fast as they can (one player did it in 2 days for example), then I ask what is the point in getting to 90 so quickly? Isn't part of the game levelling up with people and getting to know each other and learning from experience? World of Warcraft evolved into that phase of levelling as fast as possible and it drove a lot of people away because it lost all its challenges and resulted in a clueless and greedy population that only cared about getting the best gear.

WoW has how many players compared to FF11. They could loss the total FF11 pop and not even phase them. Also you should go read www.cracked.com write up on the 7 biggest d*ck moves in MMOs, its a good read and shows how much players really care about each other. The first MMO pandemic started in WoW is a good read, along with someone paying to have another player assassinated in EvE.

[Kikkyo]

Valkurm has been abandoned for a long while, but I keep seeing people in ls chat mentioning or asking for parties in crawler's nest, and have seen quite a bit of partying around the pond in Qufim while fishing. So those zones at least aren't dead, it just depends on the type of people you're with and if they're the sort of players to take the easy road or choose to learn the job as they go, which also probably depends on if they're serious about the job or just leveling it to 50 for a sub.

Bleh, editing to say that I didn't realize when I posted this that CN was popular for aby-style alliance xping, just returning to the game after several months and two abyssea expansion releases so I'm still clueless on some of the changes in game. XD

[Fyreus]

Not even going to read anything here. Abyssea ruined 3~6man parties from 30-90. nuff said.

[Nightstrike]

They went about abyssea in the wrong way, and have kept going in that wrong direction. Weather you all will notice it, or admit it, ff11 will die a slow death, tho faster than it already was.

As for you that always sat around for hours waiting for a party, to bad, that's your own problem for not making one out of the who knows how many also looking. You don't want to sit around and wait for a party, then get off your lazy but and make a party, not like being a party leader is a trait gifted to the rare privileged few. Don't know where to go? Then ask people or look online! >.> Well guess i won't have to deal with this much longer anyways, plan on quitting after the summer festival... ahhh, my favorite event in the game... ^^ But figured id leave you all with the one and only rant from me... tho im sure you all will just durn death's ear to it like usual... or should i say deaths eye in this case? lol

(note: the faster you get through a game, means the sooner you are to quit playing it) <-That logic, cannot truly be denied.

[Ravenmore]

Not even going to read anything here. Abyssea ruined 3~6man parties from 30-90. nuff said.

Hey great off topic since this is not about abyssea. Try reading before spouting off. In fact its about people leveling out side of abyssea.

[Ravenmore]

They went about abyssea in the wrong way, and have kept going in that wrong direction. Weather you all will notice it, or admit it, ff11 will die a slow death, tho faster than it already was.

As for you that always sat around for hours waiting for a party, to bad, that's your own problem for not making one out of the who knows how many also looking. You don't want to sit around and wait for a party, then get off your lazy but and make a party, not like being a party leader is a trait gifted to the rare privileged few. Don't know where to go? Then ask people or look online! >.> Well guess i won't have to deal with this much longer anyways, plan on quitting after the summer festival... ahhh, my favorite event in the game... ^^ But figured id leave you all with the one and only rant from me... tho im sure you all will just durn death's ear to it like usual... or should i say deaths eye in this case? lol

(note: the faster you get through a game, means the sooner you are to quit playing it) <-That logic, cannot truly be denied.

If it takes to long people quit anyway. It also wasn't aboiut making your own parties but also only 2 accepted camps, and the healer and brds wanting 20k+ a hour of GTFO since they were meriting on jobs that they hated to use those merits on jobs they enjoyed. Again prime focus of this thread was not about abyssea. Only time abyssea came up was in regard to speed leveling which has been in the game for far longer then abyssea was even a thought.

[darkvision]

I was under the impression that level syncing allowed players from all levels to team up with lower level buddies who were constantly stuck seeking a party of players their own level, and that books were to help players to earn experience point bonuses, gain buffs, and a little extra gil to allow for solo play.

For a short while it seemed to work...people teaming together in zones like Valkurm, Qufim and Yuhtunga Jungle and partying together without the fear of outlevelling each other. That was, until people discovered that by teaming together in an alliance in dungeons and doing ground valor pages over and over fighting easy prey targets gave more experience points for less effort. This coupled together with lower levels being taken to Zehrun Mines by higher levels to leech from the ground valor manuals and Abyssea alliances with lower levels taking advantage of the domninion operations manuals means that once more zones such as Valkurm Dunes, Qufim, and the two jungles have become abandoned zones with players still stuck seeking for a party if they are wanting a legit party or the book burning alliance for their level is full.

My question to SE is was this intended? To have players take part in mindless zerging or leeching without needing to upgrade their gear or spells until they hit level 90 within a couple of days with no decent skills? There's another game that does this, it's called World of Warcraft, and I came to FFXI to escape from that.

in a way i hate this kind of exping, so i understan how ya feel about it, but i do it on my main characer my self, only coz i have all skillz capped, hell my alt is a better WHM than the gimps out there that have really really gimp skills, about 11 times now people sent /tells to me o says in party chat to stop gear swappng too much, i am sorry if you need to tell people that then gtfo the party and read up on making macro's and at the same time find out why people gear change so much,

this is something that just grinds my gears and i just wanna give a RL slap to everyone that tells me to stop gear swapping so much and i have more than 5 gearsets for every job i play.

i was soloing Chukwa the other day on PLD/RDM and no i dont have ochain or Aegis (LS mates thought i would fail) and this gimp group was asking why i changed gear soo much (i have like 17 geat set for PLD), i ignored them till i killed it solo face tanking the whole time, so i explained why, then they said that i should only need 1 gear set, come on seriously?

this is why this in a way should be put a stop to, imo Abyssea should have been be lvl 75+ GoV should be 80+ restictions. but its not going to happen soo i will have to live with it.

[Arlan]

in a way i hate this kind of exping, so i understan how ya feel about it, but i do it on my main characer my self, only coz i have all skillz capped, hell my alt is a better WHM than the gimps out there that have really really gimp skills, about 11 times now people sent /tells to me o says in party chat to stop gear swappng too much, i am sorry if you need to tell people that then gtfo the party and read up on making macro's and at the same time find out why people gear change so much,

this is something that just grinds my gears and i just wanna give a RL slap to everyone that tells me to stop gear swapping so much and i have more than 5 gearsets for every job i play.

i was soloing Chukwa the other day on PLD/RDM and no i dont have ochain or Aegis (LS mates thought i would fail) and this gimp group was asking why i changed gear soo much (i have like 17 geat set for PLD), i ignored them till i killed it solo face tanking the whole time, so i explained why, then they said that i should only need 1 gear set, come on seriously?

this is why this in a way should be put a stop to, imo Abyssea should have been be lvl 75+ GoV should be 80+ restictions. but its not going to happen soo i will have to live with it.

I understand what you mean.
I do a lot of gear changing too for all 6 of my jobs.
Each gear for specific needs.

However,
As a WHM when I am main healing, One thing I hate the most or complain the most is when DDs or Tanks are NEAR DEATH and I need to cure them to keep them alive, and thats when they decide to switch gears and I end up healing myself and getting them killed lol.

Making macros for healing each individual is too much when you can just point and cure quicker by default from my experience.

I think people who switch a lot a gear are fine as long as they know "WHEN" to do so and think about healers who need to keep them alive as well.

Complaining like this has always been there before abyssea from my experience.
oh well

[Ravenmore]

Because people are retarded and still don't know about <stal> new whms and old alike nothing new there. I seen WHMs that leveled wmh years ago that still don't know of it. So even thats not a way to tell if someone burned whm or not. Knowing how the game it self works not the job.

[Covenant]

Wanna know the absolute true beauty if Grounds of Valor?

Its pretty simple alliance parties... I go to area, I put up flag get picked in under 1 min or when alliance comes back to book and see me "Lfp"...fight for however many pages/hours...cap experience...drop party and log out... Log back in, put up "Lfp" join another party in 1 min, keep leveln at capped exp. With all boosts still intact.

It's a freaking thing of beauty. The old way took me 3-4 weeks Solon Darkknight. No standing in jeuno /shouting or scanning for players "my level" that wanted to play. Anyone with a "Lfp" in zone automatically wants alliance party. It's what SquareEnix created the "automatic join" function for.

[Themailman]

It's bitter/sweet how xping is these days. I lvld 17 jobs to 75 and other 3 to 60 Pre-Abyssea. Mostly to get my coveted Maat's Cap. Then started working on the other 5 jobs. It is hard to swallow how easy it is for players these days to get from 1 to 90 in 3 days or less when it took me weeks to get 1 job to 75. Sure i think about all the time spent seems like a waste, but it wasn't cause i enjoyed it all. I'm happy players can xp so fast now that some time has gone by for us to adjust to Abyssea and all its crazyness. my friends can now spend time doing events and stuff with me instead of saying "Srry Mail, i gotta get this job xp'd" Glad those days are gone....

[Ravenmore]

Something else, every time a new way to exp came out be it the readjustment of exp points to get to 75, better camps (toau) players getting over IT++ overcamping, campaign, level sync people will say that those that didn't do it the way they did are less skilled.

[Arlan]

Because people are retarded and still don't know about <stal> new whms and old alike nothing new there. I seen WHMs that leveled wmh years ago that still don't know of it. So even thats not a way to tell if someone burned whm or not. Knowing how the game it self works not the job.

Thats an intelligent response =)

[Michae]

Having been a player for over 5 years now I too miss the old group party format. I have participated in a few of the new Grounds of Valor book burn formats as well. But what I have found is that the traditional party still seems to give more exp per hr if you have a group of ppl who know what they are doing. In other words ppl who have not lvled every char in aby or in GoV burns. In a colibri group in WW the other day, with the exp increase, I was getting around 600-800 exp per bird and with 2 pups, 1 drk, 1 whm and 1 sam we were burning thru the birds so fast that the exp piled up faster than it would have going page for page in a book burn. The book burns only seem faster due to the large lumps of exp at once, plus it allows ppl to do a minimum of work.

Its a fad and should die down eventually when ppl realized that the exp isnt that great compared to the traditional pt. The downside to the months its going to be before this sinks in, is that we are going to have a whole massive group of ppl who dont know how to tank with pld or nin, healers who dont know how to watch for things other than hp colors, dd and pullers who know how to keep thier hate to a minimum and so on.

[Ravenmore]

Having been a player for over 5 years now I too miss the old group party format. I have participated in a few of the new Grounds of Valor book burn formats as well. But what I have found is that the traditional party still seems to give more exp per hr if you have a group of ppl who know what they are doing. In other words ppl who have not lvled every char in aby or in GoV burns. In a colibri group in WW the other day, with the exp increase, I was getting around 600-800 exp per bird and with 2 pups, 1 drk, 1 whm and 1 sam we were burning thru the birds so fast that the exp piled up faster than it would have going page for page in a book burn. The book burns only seem faster due to the large lumps of exp at once, plus it allows ppl to do a minimum of work.

Its a fad and should die down eventually when ppl realized that the exp isnt that great compared to the traditional pt. The downside to the months its going to be before this sinks in, is that we are going to have a whole massive group of ppl who dont know how to tank with pld or nin, healers who dont know how to watch for things other than hp colors, dd and pullers who know how to keep thier hate to a minimum and so on.

And killing birds provided any of the skills whms need at endgame. ToAU mobs you need no tank to start with /nin is all thats need or people that know how to work se/te if /sam. Plds didn't get invited to exp if another DD is looking at the same time. Rose tinted glasses again. People have been avoiding mobs with status down effects since toau came out.

I not saying that a 6 man couldn't work but really if you have 3 groups fighting over the one or 2 good camps exp will drop off. Better yet 3 groups looking to get a healer and theres only one, do you all fight over the one healer, shout to try to pay off the healer or team up and go kill EPs were the healer won't have a increased work load and everyone get exp.

All exp will teach you is how to get exp.

[Ravenmore]

Thats an intelligent response =)

With <stal> you can change gear all you want to to and never lose target. You can also pick from the party list and not have to tab around looking for the person to heal or buff. Its in ever single WHM or RDM how to out there. You don;t need any third party tool to do it either. Works on PC and console. No reason not to use it. Been in the game for years as well.

[Kwate]

Having been a player for over 5 years now I too miss the old group party format. I have participated in a few of the new Grounds of Valor book burn formats as well. But what I have found is that the traditional party still seems to give more exp per hr if you have a group of ppl who know what they are doing. In other words ppl who have not lvled every char in aby or in GoV burns. In a colibri group in WW the other day, with the exp increase, I was getting around 600-800 exp per bird and with 2 pups, 1 drk, 1 whm and 1 sam we were burning thru the birds so fast that the exp piled up faster than it would have going page for page in a book burn. The book burns only seem faster due to the large lumps of exp at once, plus it allows ppl to do a minimum of work.

Its a fad and should die down eventually when ppl realized that the exp isnt that great compared to the traditional pt. The downside to the months its going to be before this sinks in, is that we are going to have a whole massive group of ppl who dont know how to tank with pld or nin, healers who dont know how to watch for things other than hp colors, dd and pullers who know how to keep thier hate to a minimum and so on.

I disagree with this take. You are only talking the bird camp which is a great exp camp, what about the slower camps from 50-54 or 59-62 outside of level sync (good with a well equip pt possibly). Also lets say you do get more exp per hr, the margin is slim and that doesn't take into account on how long you must wait to get a party, with a high level of job prejudice ie. monk, drk, blu, pup, etc.

The new style is so widely accepted because I know I can get a pt invite pretty darn quick, so while exp an hr doesn't factor in wait time for an invite it's almost an invalid argument (also you dont need an elite setup to burn and you can have 1-3 people afk or leave without affecting exp too much). Book burns aren't going anywhere because it saves times on waiting and lets face it, its pretty fun, fast paced and love the race back and forth to the book to collect exp.

[Bubeeky]

I for one don't miss the old style...sitting in lower or port jeuno for hours waiting for a pt only to find out that one or more people in said pt suck so badly that you physically can't kill stuff (I don't mean just suck by elitest standards, I mean like suck in a seriously detrimental way, that prevents the pt from killing things) thus causing you to have to go back to lookin' for a pt, cuz at that point the only jobs that could solo effectively were bst and rdm....

to all that, I say no thanks lol give me a quick few levels to a job so I can go run off and have fun doing storylines and quests that I really enjoy doing...or just helping/hanging out with friends

[Armauk]

I for one find GoV to be incredibly dull and I really miss the old exp party dynamic because I found it to be one of the most fun things about the game. However, I am not one of those people who refuses to do GoV. It's great exp and I do it just because its faster. When I get a chance to do an old fashioned exp party I take it but that doesn't happen very often anymore.

Everyone keeps talking like it's either exp parties or GoV alliances as if they can't coexist as if one must die so the other can live. I don't see it that way. I think they could coexist. The problem right now is that GoV is much faster exp/hr than the old fashioned exp party and so the majority of people don't want to do anything else. If they buffed up exp per kill for parties or if they buffed the multiplier for exp chains to the point where it was equal to GoV in exp/hr. This would give people the choice of doing one or the other.

Everyone keeps saying that they don't want to stand around in Jeuno for hours well last time i tried to get into the GC GoV it took me an hour because there was 5-6 other people seeking when I got there. On top of that there was this DNC who was there for 30 min before I got there and I got invited before he did because WAR does more damage as the leader put it. The more popular GoV becomes the more of wait we will have to get in. Maybe my server has a higher population or GoV just caught on quicker but getting an invite still takes a good wait even for GoV.

The way I see them coexisting is the jobs that are great for 6 mans but not so much for alliance based exp like BRD, RDM, PLD can start their own exp parties. Jobs that used to have to wait hours for invites but are great for burning pages like DRK, SAM, MNK, etc. can just go to the GoV spots and join the alliance. More options means less congestion which means faster invites. Right now it's really hard to start a good exp party because a lot of the people seeking refuse to do anything other than GoV.

[Ravenmore]

Its been hard to start a good party for years, for any level. It was always a roll of the dice if the people you were inviting knew how to gear thier jobs, if they weren't cheap and used food, swap gear to WS(at the very least)had the area you want to exp at if they were a job that there was few of(mages/buffers) list goes on. None of this is new or abyssea or any other retared reason people will put down other people for wanting to level as fast as possiable.

If you didn't know or had partied with people back at 75 cap before all this you were taking a large risk inviteing people. How did you know if the partied hitting 25k a hour that the rdm and brd would stick around. Even if you were getting 18k to 20k a hour but they would give that up for a chance at that while going back to town and wasteing time waiting for the next invite getting 0exp a hour.

That was just the hell you had to go though just to merit in a game that was top heavy, god forbid you try to level at lower levels finding people that would sync down low enough to get a proper party going or even finding a healer that was in the dunes since they had the final say in everything. Since they were so few people would down to thier level before giving them up. If you can find the people to do a 6 man party have at it. Its really hard for a alli to mess up by not being able to kill mobs.

[Kwate]

I for one find GoV to be incredibly dull and I really miss the old exp party dynamic because I found it to be one of the most fun things about the game. However, I am not one of those people who refuses to do GoV. It's great exp and I do it just because its faster. When I get a chance to do an old fashioned exp party I take it but that doesn't happen very often anymore.

Everyone keeps talking like it's either exp parties or GoV alliances as if they can't coexist as if one must die so the other can live. I don't see it that way. I think they could coexist. The problem right now is that GoV is much faster exp/hr than the old fashioned exp party and so the majority of people don't want to do anything else. If they buffed up exp per kill for parties or if they buffed the multiplier for exp chains to the point where it was equal to GoV in exp/hr. This would give people the choice of doing one or the other.

Everyone keeps saying that they don't want to stand around in Jeuno for hours well last time i tried to get into the GC GoV it took me an hour because there was 5-6 other people seeking when I got there. On top of that there was this DNC who was there for 30 min before I got there and I got invited before he did because WAR does more damage as the leader put it. The more popular GoV becomes the more of wait we will have to get in. Maybe my server has a higher population or GoV just caught on quicker but getting an invite still takes a good wait even for GoV.

The way I see them coexisting is the jobs that are great for 6 mans but not so much for alliance based exp like BRD, RDM, PLD can start their own exp parties. Jobs that used to have to wait hours for invites but are great for burning pages like DRK, SAM, MNK, etc. can just go to the GoV spots and join the alliance. More options means less congestion which means faster invites. Right now it's really hard to start a good exp party because a lot of the people seeking refuse to do anything other than GoV.

I'm going to go out on a whim and if the said people knew about GOV or GOV areas, I can almost guarantee if they went where the pt is taking place they would get an invite ASAP! Most of the GOV's I participated in had 10~15 people and always took randoms that came with their flag up from previous burns.

[Armauk]

I'm going to go out on a whim and if the said people knew about GOV or GOV areas, I can almost guarantee if they went where the pt is taking place they would get an invite ASAP! Most of the GOV's I participated in had 10~15 people and always took randoms that came with their flag up from previous burns.

The said people were seeking next to me in Garliage Citadel right next to the alliance doing the GoV. We were not standing in Jeuno with our flags up. On my server theres almost always multiple people seeking next to the book/alliance. Enough that it causes us to have a wait of 20-60 min depending on how many people are also seeking next to the book/alliance and what job you are and whether or not you know one of the alliance leaders.

[Kwate]

The said people were seeking next to me in Garliage Citadel right next to the alliance doing the GoV. We were not standing in Jeuno with our flags up. On my server theres almost always multiple people seeking next to the book/alliance. Enough that it causes us to have a wait of 20-60 min depending on how many people are also seeking next to the book/alliance and what job you are and whether or not you know one of the alliance leaders.

Don't get me wrong, GOV is far from perfect, but overall, with the significant decrease in wait time, increased exp every page you complete (with added effects), less job prejudice, less downtime for a couple afk or pt members leaving.....I can honestly say this is a step in the right direction.

[geekgirl101]

I felt that I needed to give myself some more time to see both sides of book burning and normal xp, so I've been doing GoVs until blue in the face and the occassional and rare normal party. From these experiences I can say this...

Book burning got boring after the first 3 jobs. I could literally feel my brain melting down over the constant running around in Gusgen Mines, watching a mob die because it was dead before I could target it, seeing half the alliance just standing there doing nothing and then grabbing next page. I just don't see the fun in it and after seeing so much of Gusgen and Crawler's Nest I'm beginning to hate those places with a passion. If anything I'm craving for a real group where I feel like I'm really contributing and playing a role. Because of my lack of experience in a proper party I don't know how to play some of my jobs.

Normal xp has been real fun in comparison. I've gotten to do some places like the jungles, Qufim, Valkurm, Eastern Altepa Desert and East Ronfaure(S), and we made amazing xp and were virtually levelling at the same speed as people doing GoV. However since book burns and leeching has become the trend normal xp parties are extremely rare, and while soloing is also an option for a mage class it takes far too long or is too hard. Right now been in /seacom for 2 days levelling smn magic outside of cities getting depressed at the lack of interest in normal xp parties and not even a GoV invite because they were all full 18/18 for hours and hours and hours.

Edit: I've noticed a number of good friends no longer playing the game, they talked of leaving before saying that Abyssea ruined the whole gaming experience for them and also that it was a poor example of expanding the game by copying/pasting zones and recolouring them. Just today another friend has spoken of leaving. He doesn't get to play much due to work and said that he enjoys logging in to play in a party for a while, what he doesn't like is sitting in Gusgen running back and forth and that is what the game has now gone down to. In his words, "what's the point?" I couldn't agree more.