Attacking other players while under the effect of Charm

[Cursed]

Is attacking other players who are under the effect of charm against terms of service?
Other players who are not in your alliance, your linkshell or in any way connected to you. Should you be able to attack such people who are under the effects of charm?

[Zatias]

I don't know for sure but it is hilarious when people get charmed and you 1shot them with a weaponskill...

Scenario for you: You're walking by the Refflasias in Abys-Kons, and you come across the NM. You want his Key Item, but what's more, he still has a charmed person in tow! Do you let the other person kill you as you try for the Key Item, or do you fight back? XD

[Urteil]

Kill them all.

[Leonlionheart]

Is attacking other players who are under the effect of charm against terms of service?
Other players who are not in your alliance, your linkshell or in any way connected to you. Should you be able to attack such people who are under the effects of charm?

I doubt it, otherwise I'm sure they would just change the script to make players "claimed" by their alliance.

[Vold]

Is attacking other players who are under the effect of charm against terms of service?
Other players who are not in your alliance, your linkshell or in any way connected to you. Should you be able to attack such people who are under the effects of charm?They can attack you, so why not? Do it at your own risk, however. I've had a thief try to take Ras from me before at 3% and they got stomped for their trouble. A charmed player is pretty accurate in comparison to the NM that charmed them... even against thiefs.

[Rie]

Charmed players are enemies of the empire, and you should defend the empire against its enemies.

[katz]

Interesting point. If mob charms you, does it go unclaimed, if it does should it. I have slept charmed people, Ive never thought of killing them or stealing their mob.

[Zaknafein]

If it's someone I don't know or a cool person I wouldn't. If it is someone I know to be a douche, or say a player who had at an earlier time just rolled up on a ??? my group was working with, and spammed trade w/o even bothering to make an attempt to negotiate rotating pops... well then I would declare a Holy war, and annihilate them! Also killing your friends when they get charmed produces hours of family fun.

[Leonlionheart]

If it's someone I don't know or a cool person I wouldn't. If it is someone I know to be a douche, or say a player who had at an earlier time just rolled up on a ??? my group was working with, and spammed trade w/o even bothering to make an attempt to negotiate rotating pops... well then I would declare a Holy war, and annihilate them! Also killing your friends when they get charmed produces hours of family fun.

:| I don't negotiate with players concerning ??? unless it's been an issue already, but neither do I expect they negotiate with me. The competition keeps what is otherwise completely uninteresting, interesting.

But then us Pansuran's feed off of the drama we create, so that may be the issue.

I like the fact that I can hunt down other people though and don't have to be in Brenner/Ballista.

[Karbuncle]

Anyway, Moral codes aside, Killing a charmed player is not against the ToS. Its why you don't lose exp if you're charmed. Basically if you get charmed you're as free-game as a yellow mob.

Rather you're okay morally with killing someone charmed is up to you.

[Zaknafein]

:| I don't negotiate with players concerning ??? unless it's been an issue already, but neither do I expect they negotiate with me. The competition keeps what is otherwise completely uninteresting, interesting.

But then us Pansuran's feed off of the drama we create, so that may be the issue.

If your idea of PvP competition in ffxi is who spams a trade macro faster, or who has the better xiclaim bot to do it for you then you need to grow up. Approaching a ??? where people are working on something, and not even making an attempt to be civil is just poor manners, selfish, and a mark of under developed social skills. Yet people wonder why Jp players want regional servers >.>

[Alhanelem]

Is attacking other players who are under the effect of charm against terms of service?
Other players who are not in your alliance, your linkshell or in any way connected to you. Should you be able to attack such people who are under the effects of charm?
No, It's not against the terms of service. Being able to target players is in fact necessary to properly deal with charm.

You do not lose EXP if you are KO'd while charmed.

[Cream_Soda]

The act of attacking a charmed person itself isn't against ToS, but make sure you don't cross over into grief tactics. For example, if you dia a charmed person just so their pt can't sleep them and walk off, at GM discretion, it is possible to get in trouble for that.

[Zaknafein]

The act of attacking a charmed person itself isn't against ToS, but make sure you don't cross over into grief tactics. For example, if you dia a charmed person just so their pt can't sleep them and walk off, at GM discretion, it is possible to get in trouble for that.

That sounds like fun XD

[Kimble]

If your idea of PvP competition in ffxi is who spams a trade macro faster, or who has the better xiclaim bot to do it for you then you need to grow up. Approaching a ??? where people are working on something, and not even making an attempt to be civil is just poor manners, selfish, and a mark of under developed social skills. Yet people wonder why Jp players want regional servers >.>

JPs are just as bad as NAs when it comes to popping, lol.

[Raxiaz]

NAs and JPs an ENs all have their fair share of ignorant, idiotic people.

That doesn't mean you should be one, too.

[Aurara]

If your idea of PvP competition in ffxi is who spams a trade macro faster, or who has the better xiclaim bot to do it for you then you need to grow up. Approaching a ??? where people are working on something, and not even making an attempt to be civil is just poor manners, selfish, and a mark of under developed social skills. Yet people wonder why Jp players want regional servers >.>

You say this like JPs have amazing manners. If i'm working on something, i can almost guarantee that i will kill it faster than your group. Don't waste my time with slow kills.

[Kimble]

You say this like JPs have amazing manners. If i'm working on something, i can almost guarantee that i will kill it faster than your group. Don't waste my time with slow kills.

Still doesnt mean you cant take turns, or offer the other group to help so it speeds it up for everyone. Win/win

[Aurara]

Still doesnt mean you cant take turns, or offer the other group to help so it speeds it up for everyone. Win/win

Tried this too many times, people either refuse to team up, or get extremely hostile when you show up. I just outpop them, and move on with my business.

[Kimble]

Well I look at it this way, people get hostile because they to have had to deal with people who just show up and pop without even asking .

Ive had it happen to me a lot too, but I still ask. It doesnt hurt and only takes seconds of your time.

[Aurara]

If i see a group killing a KI NM slow, and i have like 3-4 pops, i'm just gonna outpop you, because i have better things to do than waste 10 minutes of my time waiting for you to kill the KI NM, then sucks to be you.

[Khajit]

Still doesnt mean you cant take turns, or offer the other group to help so it speeds it up for everyone. Win/win

There's a fairly HUGE chance that the other group will actually slow things down via sheer stupidity if one teams up with that.
Also how exactly is it a win/win? What advantage is inherent in taking turns for either group? Even if the group other than yourself outpops you and leaves by the time you finish any pops you've spent EXACTLY the same amount of time there as if you'd been taking turns in a best case scenario. Expecting others to go along with something that makes no advantage for either side is ridiculous. If you outpop some group that sucks horribly then you actually gain time while the horrible group still technically lost no time overall. Zak here is coming off as(and given his brand of retribution against a person that did nothing that hurt him in the long run he actually is) a bigger prick than the people he's trying to disparage.

[Leonlionheart]

I usually team up with people instead of taking turns.

If their stupid, then I do it for them, making it go way faster than if they had done it for themselves.

[Kimble]

I just love how everything is ME ME ME in this game sometimes. Is it really so bad and horrible to be nice to others?

[Zatias]

Wow how this topic drifted lol.

I agree with being courteous at ???, people saying they don't bother anymore are only spreading the hate. If everyone doesn't bother to communicate and be nice to other groups, everyone will become the same.

I have a lot of experience with this and 90% of the time, teaming up will only speed things up for everyone. I also have had a lot of experience with a-holes saying that they don't wanna share anymore because no one else shares. This is hypocritical and what's more, when given the chance to share (hello I just asked you!), they refuse... All because of this hate spreading at ???s.

It's extremely frustrating.

[Zaknafein]

There's a fairly HUGE chance that the other group will actually slow things down via sheer stupidity if one teams up with that.
Also how exactly is it a win/win? What advantage is inherent in taking turns for either group? Even if the group other than yourself outpops you and leaves by the time you finish any pops you've spent EXACTLY the same amount of time there as if you'd been taking turns in a best case scenario. Expecting others to go along with something that makes no advantage for either side is ridiculous. If you outpop some group that sucks horribly then you actually gain time while the horrible group still technically lost no time overall. Zak here is coming off as(and given his brand of retribution against a person that did nothing that hurt him in the long run he actually is) a bigger prick than the people he's trying to disparage.

I won't flame your douchiness considering you at least posted on a main vs linking a low level mule to talk smack.

[Khajit]

So it's perfectly ok to kill people for imagined slights against you that didn't harm you in any way? You can't see at all why you're actually being worse than the people you're claiming are teh evulz?

I've not seen a single reason from the posts so far that actually proves alternating/etc works besides maybe the teaming up one which only works if a person is soloing mobs because otherwise teaming up does nothing but make the fight HARDER.

I usually team up with people instead of taking turns.

If their stupid, then I do it for them, making it go way faster than if they had done it for themselves.

Doesn't work most of the time. Alot of misc groups don't invite random people for simple wins because no matter how many times they told the invitee to sit back and do nothing the idiots STILL found ways to kill the group that wouldn't be having any trouble without said person they were being nice to. Yeah there are still people willing to invite but i''ve seen more than enough people saying they don't invite random people who need wins/atma anymore because of how many times telling a person to sit down backfires. It has nothing to do with not wanting to help. They just cant trust random people anymore because they've seen what happens.

[Kimble]

I dunno, i alternate all the time and have no issues with it. Doesnt hurt me or them.

[Zaknafein]

I dunno, i alternate all the time and have no issues with it. Doesnt hurt me or them.

Same. Try it sometime you might actually make some friends that will help you in some way down the road.

[Khajit]

I dunno, i alternate all the time and have no issues with it. Doesnt hurt me or them.


Neither does the two groups spamming ??? and that's the point. The worst case scenario is they both don't actually hurt and the best case is your pt gets things done faster. It's ridiculous to pretend it actually does anything beneficial to alternate instead of spamming and it's even more ridiculous to think people are horrible persons for not taking turns when it doesn't actually hurt you.

[Kimble]

Its called being nice and good karma. Shows you are at least willing to work with others then just showing up and acting like you have a right to it over someone else.

Tell me, if someone is there first, do you leave them alone till they are done, or just start popping and not giving a crap?

[Khajit]

Who said anything about having more of a right to pops other than you? Everyone has a right to pop it. Unlike certain people that resort to mkping players in a hissy fit "of justice" I'm not going to have an aneurism if I get outpopped.
It's not even annoying when the people we didn't alternate with try and gloat if they outpop me or anyone else. It's just confusing because they didn't actually do anything worth of gloating nor is outpopping me some sort of viable reason to taunt. I just sit there feeling kinda sorry for them that they think that was supposed to be some sort of mean thing or amazingly diabolical revenge over essentially nothing. (Aha! I have given you ten dollars using five dollar bills instead of a single ten. FEAR MY WRATH.) What did they prevent me from doing? Absolutely nothing because if we'd alternated in the end the same amount of time(or more) was spent between the both of us total.

[Aurara]

Its called being nice and good karma. Shows you are at least willing to work with others then just showing up and acting like you have a right to it over someone else.

Tell me, if someone is there first, do you leave them alone till they are done, or just start popping and not giving a crap?

It really depends, if it's somebody i know i usually let them finish popping, but if i see a group taking forever(and for me forever is 10 minutes+) ill outpop and move on with whatever im doing, i might apologize for outpopping, then explain why so they are not as angry/upset/confused.

[Zaknafein]

Popping ahead of a group that sucks is not the same thing as rolling up to a ??? and just popping without at least speaking to the other group. The former is sensible. The latter is douchetastic.

[Kimble]

Just to make it clear, I wont go and MPK over it. If they dont want to take turns, ill just try and out pop at that point and leave it at that.

[Aurara]

Popping ahead of a group that sucks is not the same thing as rolling up to a ??? and just popping without at least speaking to the other group. The former is sensible. The latter is douchetastic.

I can usually tell if a group sucks or not by looking at their setup/visible gear.

[Khajit]

Popping ahead of a group that sucks is not the same thing as rolling up to a ??? and just popping without at least speaking to the other group. The former is sensible. The latter is douchetastic.

As opposed to mkping people for making you wait 3 minutes?

[Leonlionheart]

You know, I don't mind being a douche and going for ME ME ME in this game.

I don't even play for myself anymore- I'm done with Abyssea gear other than odds and ends for jobs that aren't my main.

If I'm out doing something 90% of the time it's for someone else, and I don't like wasting my groups time. If I know I can do it better than someone else, I will do it better than them (this scenario occurs probably over 95% of the time). In which case I will pop ??? before them at the drop of the hat, or "Team Up" and kind of take command. I don't care about seals anyway- so it usually works for all applicable mobs, and no one gets angry.

If you're a dick to me though, I will destroy you.

[Raxiaz]

If teaming up makes a fight harder that's your fault for not properly communicating strategy. No NM in Abyssea really requires more than one or two lines of instruction for everyone relevant to the battle.

[Eeek]

My group invited two nearby, random newbies for Atma of Allure while we finished off a Masamune's Level80 stage. Didn't charge them or anything.

Suck it, angry people. Cheers to everyone out there who at least tries not to be total s**theads.

[Garota]

I love killing random strangers for fun!

[Aurara]

If teaming up makes a fight harder that's your fault for not properly communicating strategy. No NM in Abyssea really requires more than one or two lines of instruction for everyone relevant to the battle.

It's really simple, invite, you do the work, tell them not to toutch it. This is very difficult for some people to understand, and said people end up feeding mob tp and as a result you cant proc.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Nuking people in besieged brings me much enjoyment.

[Scuro]

Did anyone else read this and just ROFL? Cuz I sure did....

[Urteil]

Kill. Them. All.

[katz]

There seem to be some very good arguments in here as to why all NM pops should be made so that anyone holding the pop set can pop the mob regardless of if one is already up. If you attempt your mob and fail, then the mob can depop

[Cream_Soda]

If you attempt your mob and fail, then the mob can depop
This has no benefit to anyone really

[katz]

Would love to see a charm ability for players to charm beastmen to attack nms with. Note not beasts like bst can.

[Atomic_Skull]

The act of attacking a charmed person itself isn't against ToS, but make sure you don't cross over into grief tactics. For example, if you dia a charmed person just so their pt can't sleep them and walk off, at GM discretion, it is possible to get in trouble for that.

Most things that charm you also put a DOT on you to thwart sleep anyway.

[katz]

This has no benefit to anyone really

It wasnt meant to >.> it was meant as get it right or dont win anything. If you have taken the time to get the pop why should others be able to steal the mob from you.

[Habiki]

I wish all mobs in abyssea had the ability to charm, it would be like pvp revived but better since you can gear swap, would be nice after uncharming if your still alive to have the chance for revenge on whoever attacked you while you we're charmed, would add a whole new challenge to the game.

Would like to see AoE spells work on entire groups of charmed people as well.

If they we're to fix the charm aspect and being attacked by another player outside of your group, then the best way to go about it would be to have the charm effect wear off once you take damage from someone outside the group. Although if you we're attacked by someone in your group the charmed effect would stay on till it's duration was over.

If this thread is about Cirein-croin and being killed by other LS's, I'm suprised people haven't figured out how to avoid his charm move. There's a very simple solution to his move but it's not up on wiki, I doubt anyone will post how to avoid it either since it's one of the few oppurtunitys to kill other groups for sport and a good laugh amongst friends.

Don't think theres any way to avoid Raskovniks charm move but I could be wrong have only fought him once long ago for atma and his key item doesnt lead to an empyrean mob set. Hes just for eccentric eves pop set so I doubt you'll see many fighting it like at Cirein-croin so the chance of getting killed while charmed is really low. Anyways best to just gold chest farm Abyssea - Konschtat in between killing fistule, always a chance at some nice dark rings as well while doing it.

[Kraggy]

Most things that charm you also put a DOT on you to thwart sleep anyway.
Is there a DoT that can't be Erase-d before Sleep-ing?

[Zaknafein]

Is there a DoT that can't be Erase-d before Sleep-ing?

You can't cast erase or na spells on some one who is charmed. Also I never noticed mobs that charm have a high frequency of DoTs as well. Sure of them do, but never seemed like a disportionate amount at least in my experience.

[Cream_Soda]

It wasnt meant to >.> it was meant as get it right or dont win anything. If you have taken the time to get the pop why should others be able to steal the mob from you.
So it's a spite thing? We weren't good enough to kill it, so nobody else should?

Let's say a group needs [insert drop here] and we wipe at 20% to [inseret mob here], which drops that item they need one of.

I'd rather them kill it, get that drop and leave (or even if they need more than 1, be 1 drop closer to leaving and not having to fight to pop the NM), than it to simply just disappear and have to worry about them trying to pop it over us on the next attempt.

This situation) Possibility the other group gtfo's faster and leaves you alone
Your situation) 0 benefit to anyone at all.

Again, unless it's just plain out of spite, I don't see why anyone would want your scenario in comparison.

[JovialRat]

its funny as hell

[Airget]

Pro Tip:If you're a Warrior and see a dual wield job charmed use Retaliation and enjoy the fun. I tried this on a NIN friend once just to see how it would turn out and then went from full to 0 in like 5 seconds cause of their attack speed it was pretty amusing, but it's not something I would do to people I don't know.

The act of being charmed is for some it can be a stress relieving thing getting humor off killing your comrades, on the positive they don't lose any xp and it can be fun at times.

Though on the serious end it's not something you would wanna do in a serious situation but in one where you have everything handled and just wanna have some fun lol.

Another amusing thing about being charmed is skillup works both ways, the charmed player can actually gain skillup from the person they attack and I believe it works the other way as well. Heck what better way to show a sense of cooperation then to beat the crap out of one another in an attempt to skillup combat skills. That's something you can't do in Ballista. Granted I am being sarcastic to an extent but it's amusing during those small windows when you are charmed and attacking an ally and you see a you gain .2 skillup.

Not sure why this thought just popped in my head but it would be amusing if SE made a new PVP concept where two players order around charmed players on the battlefield, strategically commanding them to use certain moves and command to take down the foe, but in a generic command where you can't outright say sleepga II, it would be more like "slow down the enemy" and they may use sleep, or bind and such. Anyways ya I think for the most part people are pretty civil with charm I've never actually witnessed a random person killing another stranger while they are charmed out of the fear that the same may be done to them. The only time I really see people being killed are when they are familiar with one another lol and then it's just done in humor.

[Kya]

lol love killing charm ppl with wildfire on ppl lol

[JackDaniels]

Kill them all.

I have to agree with this sentiment haha.

[Sparthos]

Charm being so fun shows people secretly desire PvP.

I made it a habit to Jishnu's Radiance individuals charmed back when I used to RNG Titlacauan.

[Urteil]

So the FFXI community loves killing charmed people but not PvP?

Oh wait, that's just the retarded people.

Oh wai-

[Coldbrand]

I just realized how fun it would be to hang out by cirein-croin or titlacauan after pimping out BLM and nuking everyone.

[Ilax]

Well, i did not read all thread but this make me remember Pallas... People was killing his bat so pallas could charm the solo'er and then they was killing him and claim Pallas... We did call GM and GM said they was unable to do anything about it since is game mechanic...

I saw same happen again "Eccentric Eve", player got charmed, then they got kill by competition and NM stoled. Is that group got punished? I doubt, but was funny to watch none the less, i would probably be piss if this happen to me, but no worry, i always have a backup tank staying far....

[Zumi]

A few years ago had a couple friends that got jailed then 3 day banned and the other was warned for killing charmed people at Tiamat. They told the GM they were doing it because they were being attacked by other players, the GM didn't buy it. But the real reason they were doing it because they didn't like the LS that was killing Tiamat and thought it was hilarious when they were killing their charmed players.

So I guess it really depends on the GM you get. A lot of these NA GMs are outsourced and hired by a 3rd party company by SE anyway and know little about FFXI.

But if your bad enough to get charmed by a corse at Tiamat then you deserve to die. But why have mobs even charm players if someone can just call a GM on you for killing the charmed players?

[Zaknafein]

HNM was serious bizness dood!

[Ilax]

I guess is not only about GM, but case by case. If is done in goal of pissing another group, GM might see it as harrasment, but if that X player involve game mechanic then i think GM would be forced to take no action... Maybe i am wrong too, but like i said i still have SS and LOG from that GM for pallas, and nothing he could do outside say how he was sorry.

Another old story, back in the time i was mana burning tiger from gigas in the past (very good exp), some random group came in and bumped us (saying they had 6 player and us only 3 so they had priority) They won, so i left and came back THF and started kill the gigas for 2h long, they all GM me, but i claimed to farm gigas item, so GM been forced to take no action, but i am pretty sure if i said to GM, i do it bc they stoled my camp and is my zone so they can deal with me now, he would have suspended my account for 3 day.

IMO SE have to fix the charm mechanic is the only real way.

[Kensagaku]

I have no problem nuking friends when we fight charmed mobs. Usually I keep a killcount and pray to god I don't end up in the charmed group so people don't get their revenge on me. This is why I like going mages or THF on things like C-C (I could attack if I wanted to on THF, but usually we kill so fast I don't really give a damn about putting full effort and just TH tag and stand back), because that way I see a person charmed, go after them and boom, one more point to chalk up to my killcount. :D

Charged Whisker worked AoE on charmed people from C-C, took out a WAR, THF, and DRK (first two unintentional because Convergence didn't go off but funny nonetheless!) with one CW for ~2.5k each. It was hilarious.

That aside, when it comes to random people? I don't like to invite hate when it comes to randomly MPKing them, so I avoid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it and I'd prolly laugh my head off if I went around doing it. It's more satisfying to KO your friends though. Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

[Ilax]

Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

See that was my old politic in FFXI, stuff changed lately, i steal NM every day now, i pop in front of a group careless, and i surly probably MPK someone if he was charmed just to steal his NM. OMG why i am i so mean? Ask that to those linkshell that been camping me on glavoid ( i lost 7 glavoid total when i did Ukon, and i am at 3 otrhtus stoled) but i am catching up big time now, i stoled 6 Orthrus, 5 hedjedjet, i give back same deal to everyone, you have no idea of the satisfaction it give me. Now when i loose agains NM and someone steal i just pop the next one, but be careful when i am around, your NM is not anymore safe if you wipe.

There less and less ethic in abyssea, and i am not planing changing my way since i would be the only stupid one doing so. For sure SE need change some mechanic in the game.

[Eeek]

That aside, when it comes to random people? I don't like to invite hate when it comes to randomly MPKing them, so I avoid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it and I'd prolly laugh my head off if I went around doing it. It's more satisfying to KO your friends though. Moral-wise, I don't care; it's a legal game mechanic and thus I have no problem with it. Socially, on the other hand, I see it as a big no-no unless it's friends because then it invites hate I don't like to deal with. Drama's a headache when it's actually mine.

I agree with your stance completely. I love love love killing charmed friends when it won't seriously compromise our current objective, but I absolutely refuse to kill random charmed people who generally behave in a civil manner and go about their business. My friends and I will sometimes take Abyssea NMs, but only if the other group fully wiped and cannot continue the fight without the aid of unlimited Apoc reraises.

@Ilax: You're an ass. Other people followed your group because it sounds like your group wiped on a fairly regular basis. Your failures are not good excuses, in my opinion, to run about facilitating wipes by killing random charmed people. I don't see any issue with stumbling upon a wiped group and claiming/killing 'their' NM. I do have a real problem with people who facilitate such wipes by killing charmed folks whose sin was being charmed around MMO sociopaths.

You cannot bemoan the supposed decline in ethical behavior in Abyssea while actively and proudly behaving in an unethical manner. That's hypocrisy. It's one thing to kill RMT and those with whom you have a legitimate grudge, but it's an entirely different matter to go about disturbing people who are otherwise going about their business and generally not wiping to NMs (it is different if they wipe to almost everything they pop/claim).

[Urteil]

What if you just have a grudge with poopie-talking, doo-doo heads.

[Kensagaku]

See that was my old politic in FFXI, stuff changed lately, i steal NM every day now, i pop in front of a group careless, and i surly probably MPK someone if he was charmed just to steal his NM. OMG why i am i so mean? Ask that to those linkshell that been camping me on glavoid ( i lost 7 glavoid total when i did Ukon, and i am at 3 otrhtus stoled) but i am catching up big time now, i stoled 6 Orthrus, 5 hedjedjet, i give back same deal to everyone, you have no idea of the satisfaction it give me. Now when i loose agains NM and someone steal i just pop the next one, but be careful when i am around, your NM is not anymore safe if you wipe.

There less and less ethic in abyssea, and i am not planing changing my way since i would be the only stupid one doing so. For sure SE need change some mechanic in the game.

Eeek hit this on the head; you're being an utter hypocrite. If you fail, your NM is free game. Apoc-zombieing is not "recovering" in my eyes, and as a result if I see a group that has to do that to win, I'll either sit and wait for a full group wipe and then take it, or get annoyed watching it go white again and again and take it before someone else does. However, you sound like you're just stalking a group (which is funny, since they "did it to you first", yet you're doing the same...) because you're a little butthurt that someone took some of your failures. If you messed up, then rethink your strategy and do better so that people don't take it. If someone else fails, and you see a monster free game? Feel free to take it, it's a legal game strategy.

However, stalking a linkshell just because you have a grudge is both socially and morally deplorable. Is it against the game's rules? Technically, since your intent as stated here (on the official forums no less!) is both purposely aiming to steal as "retaliation" for their "misdeeds" before, you could prolly be GM'd for griefing. If you're just taking the ones they wipe on, fine, but if you're stealing when a mob goes white for a second or anything like that, then yeah, you're just makin' an ass out of yourself. Doing this hurts both your social and your moral reputation.

[Rafien]

Kill them, they're going to attack you so might as well be them and not you.

[Ironside]

I love love love killing charmed friends when it won't seriously compromise our current objective, but I absolutely refuse to kill random charmed people who generally behave in a civil manner and go about their business. My friends and I will sometimes take Abyssea NMs, but only if the other group fully wiped and cannot continue the fight without the aid of unlimited Apoc reraises.

This, although I admit sometimes I really, really want to CW charmed groups. Not because I hate them or hold a grudge or anything, purely for the lulz (I main BLM, so I enjoy things blowing up; if it's other players, all the better). I don't do it though, because it would be really, really rude of me.

[Bulrogg]

I remember being in Sea with the Linkshell and waiting for our tanks to get charmed so we could unleash WS and nukes on them just for shits and giggles. It's was fun time to time as long as the fights weren't getting chaotic. Then we'd only aspir the tanks <.<

"Stop stealing my MP!!" :D

However, I never attacked charmed players outside of our Linkshell/party. And imo doing so is really a NPH move. The only place I guess it would be mildly acceptable would be Besieged; and even there I'm betting people would still be upset.

[Ironside]

I remember being in Sea with the Linkshell and waiting for our tanks to get charmed so we could unleash WS and nukes on them just for shits and giggles. It's was fun time to time as long as the fights weren't getting chaotic. Then we'd only aspir the tanks <.<

Haha! I remember in Dynamis - San d'Oria one time a year or two ago, everyone got charmed and I didn't have MP, so I Aspir'd one of the tanks and used the MP to blow up a DRK. It was pretty fun.

[Ilax]

@Ilax: You're an ass. Other people followed your group because it sounds like your group wiped on a fairly regular basis. Your failures are not good excuses, in my opinion, to run about facilitating wipes by killing random charmed people. I don't see any issue with stumbling upon a wiped group and claiming/killing 'their' NM. I do have a real problem with people who facilitate such wipes by killing charmed folks whose sin was being charmed around MMO sociopaths.

You can call me an ass if you wan, as i said, i do it as revenge. I "TRIO BOX" my empy weapon. i have 3 now and working on 3 more, of course trio glavoid mean trouble at some point specially when he do disgorge, i think i would not care if someone take NM when they see is "game over" for me, but that is not what they did 7x time, they was camping me, and by that, i speak of a FULL LINKSHELL standing next to me watiing if i gonna die and when i say DIE is not wipe, and as soon he go unclaim BAAM they spam stun on it to steal.

Call me an ass as you wan, i just return the favor to all those people that think is right to steal NM, i am over it now, and as i stated i don't care anymore if people steal my NM, since is what i do myself now everyday. You know is funny to see how many noob wipe on everything (by that i mean a group of 15 people wiping on orthrus when i trio it in they face (after i stole it of course) is a major joy after the treatment i got from glavoid.

Like you said, i am not a solid group by "trio box" my empy weapon, so people can take avantage of me, but good news for you, i am solid enough to return favor and steal your stuff too. You see where all this go now, you really think i would just sit back, take my juice and take no action? must be kidding me.

Again, i'm an ass? I guess, ty everyone for turning me that way.


Eeek hit this on the head; you're being an utter hypocrite. If you fail, your NM is free game. Apoc-zombieing is not "recovering" in my eyes, and as a result if I see a group that has to do that to win, I'll either sit and wait for a full group wipe and then take it, or get annoyed watching it go white again and again and take it before someone else does. However, you sound like you're just stalking a group

You can think w/e you wan about me, i am over it now, i never complain anymore for NM steal, i do camp other group to see if they gonna wipe, and i do steal everytime i have a chance, full wipe or not, i don't give anymore a heck.

My politic wont change till everyone politic change, chance that happen is 0, so yes deal with it.

[Kimble]

The thing is, if someone is doing it to you then yeah, its fine to do it back to them but it sounds like you are butthurt your NMs got stolen so instead of paying it back to the group that did it to you, you do it to other people that did you no wrong at all.

If you are camping people and doing it over and over again, you are griefing. Not really wise to admit that on the official forum, lol.

[Karbuncle]

wat

You sound like the type of person who would go home and beat their wife because you stubbed your toe at work.

Read: You're taking out all your pent up anger over losing a mob on random people who have done nothing wrong to you. This is the signs of anger problems. You should seek professional help if your means of out-letting your anger is going out of your way to harass/target/kill people in FFXI because some linkshell took your Glavoids.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You make people as miserable as you were when you got your Glavoids stolen simply out of hatred for those people who stole your mob?

It sucks to have vultures take your mob but purposefully going out of your way to do that to other people just because it happened to you is far worse than the what that Linkshell did. You have become worse than the people you hated so much.

[Ilax]

@Karbuncle: not really, i sound more like a guy that would beat wife bc she beat me and steal/cheat me, that sound more correct.


The thing is, if someone is doing it to you then yeah, its fine to do it back to them but it sounds like you are butthurt your NMs got stolen so instead of paying it back to the group that did it to you, you do it to other people that did you no wrong at all.

If you are camping people and doing it over and over again, you are griefing. Not really wise to admit that on the official forum, lol.

If it was just 1 linkshell, but huh no, it been different linkshell acting the same way, and let be serious, if your LS see a "trio box" doing glavoid, wont you start camping him too? to me now it seem like is general (everyone do that and they all think is Ok, is now time for those Trio box [like me] give some revenge. Every time someone think is "ok" to steal, you just creating your own evil, and of course i know i am not going to fix anything by acting like an ASS, but for now it give to myself a satisfaction instead make me wan to quit the game, and by satisfaction, i mean OMG i take pleasure of it now... [i look more like an ass now right? is my goal too, and hope more trio box take same reaction about it or HOPEFULLY SE take real action and make the one who pop NM get drop in his PT, no matter who kill it, same system as Key Item. [Easy fix right?] till then well, keep stealing NM thinking you have more right then them, and deal with the "griefing" because they just wan revenge.

[Kimble]

It still doesnt make it right to go around and camp other people when they did NOTHING to you. Shockingly, not everyone playing this game is a jerk. Why would you go around and do it to other people that didnt do anything to you, when you don't like it when its done to you? Maybe you should "suck less" when you 3 box.

And no, I have better things to do than camp people killing NMs.

[Lotmorning]

Not sure if someone actually answered the OP's original question (to tired to read through all 8 pages right now), however killing someone who is charmed is not against the ToS. I probably still have the SS from around 6 years ago when we had some LS members camping Xolotl. There was a group that would also camp against us and when ever we got claim they would nuke us every time it charmed us ended up stealing a fair number of Xolotl from us and GM told us right out that killing a charmed character is not a violation of the ToS, it is a risk we take fighting a mob with that move at its disposal.

[Urteil]

Just go Ballista.

[Ilax]

Maybe you should "suck less" when you 3 box.

Lol trust me, I don't sux when i trio box [or i wont have 3 empy done by myself, GA/h2h/GK] =P but there still stuff where you have no control, eat a 3k disgorge have nothing to do with skill... Is not like i was dieing every time again him, but having different group/linkshell runing over my head like a CROW would do if you walk in desert, then huh ya that pretty pathetic.

For orthrus, shit happen man, when 3 orthrus is up at same time and you press 20 time on your cure macro and there nothing happening, then meh is all what it take to get you kill. But anyway, no matter how i die form an NM is still not a good reason to steal it, but hey like i said i am over it now and i don't care anymore, they can take my NM if i die, i do the same to everyone now, imo i think is a fair game.

Back before i was not interacting with other NM, i even let NM de-pop couple time, idk man, maybe is just a fenrir problem where no one care about other group/ppl, back in the time there was a good reason to steal NM, people get tire of waiting and they wanted to pop, so you wipe and take too long they was taking it... With 3 pop, this reason is now totally bull$h!t, and stealing NM is 100% a grief action, and currently everyone (majority) find that is correct just because sky is blue and the sun is yellow, then i guess same rule apply to me when i have the chance to steal.

[Kimble]

Yeah, don't even bitch if you do it yourself. You are just as bad if not worse then the people you are whining about.

[Karbuncle]

@Karbuncle: not really, i sound more like a guy that would beat wife bc she beat me and steal/cheat me, that sound more correct.

Wrong if you ask me.

Firstly, You're going on a 1 man crusade to steal NMs for random people you've never met and have never wronged you in any way, simply because someone vultured your NMs. This isn't "I hit them because they hit me", its "I hit them because I'm angry someone completely different hit me".

You're taking out your misplaced frustration on having an NM stolen on a group of people who did not do that to you. You're just blindly attacking anyone in your sight range simply because you're angry someone did it to you, You don't care who you hurt, You indiscriminately attack anyone, regardless of needing the drops or not.

Its just a terrible act. If your goal is to try and incite change, Maybe show kindness to people?

Secondly, Even if it was "I beat them because they beat me", Two wrongs don't make a right. Thats something you learn as a young age and I'm not sure why people don't remember it these days.

[Rafien]

Just go Ballista.

I was there the other day and was charmed and started to kill someone.. I felt so bad!

[Korpg]

I want my 15 minutes from reading this thread back!

[Ilax]

I want my 15 minutes from reading this thread back!

I request a -1 post on your account for this sad post.

@Karbuncle, like i explained it been more then only 1 person, more then 1 group.

Here a partial log [of course ill remove name to be nice]

[00:56] >>Ry***** : ???
[00:57] >>Ry***** : can i help you?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : or you just here to steal?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : (Leave)
[00:58] Ry*****>> my shell will take it only if you wipe to it. but my shell wont help >< if i was here alone. i'd help
[00:58] >>Ry***** : plenty of pop (Leave)
[00:58] >>Ry*****: stop doing shaddy stuff
[00:58] Ry*****>> aint doing anything lol please continue and good luck^^
[00:58] >>Ry***** : you and your LS ruin the game
[00:59] >>Ry***** : let other do they stuff, stop stealing NM

So see them not moving i tryed another strategy...

[00:59] Ilax : GT$# or i blist everyone in your LS, last warning
[01:00] Big*****ark : disgorge (Do you need any help?)
[01:00] Sk***te : Ouch a Warning >.>
[01:00] Ri***n : sorry
[01:00] Ilax : go pop your own NM
[01:00] Ilax : stop your B#llsh$t steal nm
[01:00] Big*****ark : language dont cure
[01:00] Big*****ark : im offended
[01:00] Ilax : go camp something else then me seriously
[01:01] Big*****ark : i like to watch
[01:01] Ilax : watching me like a crow running over my head?
[01:02] Siv***d : Ilax makes a post on the Officla Forums: [To The Devs] I don't want other LS's watching me fight NMs!
[01:02] Siv***d : Devs fall for it

So after a while i just got tire see 15 player from that LS watching me if i would die to get a "FREE NM" so i just decided to use a brew, and by mistake used a WS same time glavoid used JA.


[01:14] Big*****ark weeps in sorrow before Khellendros.
[01:14] Big*****ark : go get another brew
[01:15] Khellendros readies Blade: Ten.
[01:15] Ilax gains 3000 limit points.

they start acting even more like clown when i start spaming who i was blisting:

[01:15] Ex********ss : lol the whole ls??
[01:15] Si****d : Want the other members of our LS?
[01:15] B**id : /laugh @ Noobs
[01:16] B**id : LOL IIax Failz
[01:16] Khellendros : if didn't care to steal NM, why stare? worth waste brew make sure you not steal on one
[01:16] Ilax : fail? go low man it see who fail.
[01:17] Si****d : Why can't we watch?
[01:17] Ry***ts : why brew tho? lol its only Glavoid
[01:17] Ilax : is call disgorge = wipe possibility
[01:17] Khellendros : cause shit happens and we've had to many stolen by LS camp while kill

And this is just 1 LS out of many i ended to fight with, but like i said, i am over it now, and i return the same favor to everyone, i am real sorry for the few people that are still respectful to other, but this is getting a minority in abyssea.

[Korpg]

I request a -1 post on your account for this sad post.

Best you can come up with?



@Karbuncle, like i explained it been more then only 1 person, more then 1 group.

Here a partial log [of course ill remove name to be nice]

[00:56] >>Ry***** : ???
[00:57] >>Ry***** : can i help you?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : or you just here to steal?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : (Leave)
[00:58] Ry*****>> my shell will take it only if you wipe to it. but my shell wont help >< if i was here alone. i'd help
[00:58] >>Ry***** : plenty of pop (Leave)
[00:58] >>Ry*****: stop doing shaddy stuff
[00:58] Ry*****>> aint doing anything lol please continue and good luck^^
[00:58] >>Ry***** : you and your LS ruin the game
[00:59] >>Ry***** : let other do they stuff, stop stealing NM

So see them not moving i tryed another strategy...

[00:59] Ilax : GT$# or i blist everyone in your LS, last warning
[01:00] Big*****ark : disgorge (Do you need any help?)
[01:00] Sk***te : Ouch a Warning >.>
[01:00] Ri***n : sorry
[01:00] Ilax : go pop your own NM
[01:00] Ilax : stop your B#llsh$t steal nm
[01:00] Big*****ark : language dont cure
[01:00] Big*****ark : im offended
[01:00] Ilax : go camp something else then me seriously
[01:01] Big*****ark : i like to watch
[01:01] Ilax : watching me like a crow running over my head?
[01:02] Siv***d : Ilax makes a post on the Officla Forums: [To The Devs] I don't want other LS's watching me fight NMs!
[01:02] Siv***d : Devs fall for it

So after a while i just got tire see 15 player from that LS watching me if i would die to get a "FREE NM" so i just decided to use a brew, and by mistake used a WS same time glavoid used JA.


[01:14] Big*****ark weeps in sorrow before Khellendros.
[01:14] Big*****ark : go get another brew
[01:15] Khellendros readies Blade: Ten.
[01:15] Ilax gains 3000 limit points.

they start acting even more like clown when i start spaming who i was blisting:

[01:15] Ex********ss : lol the whole ls??
[01:15] Si****d : Want the other members of our LS?
[01:15] B**id : /laugh @ Noobs
[01:16] B**id : LOL IIax Failz
[01:16] Khellendros : if didn't care to steal NM, why stare? worth waste brew make sure you not steal on one
[01:16] Ilax : fail? go low man it see who fail.
[01:17] Si****d : Why can't we watch?
[01:17] Ry***ts : why brew tho? lol its only Glavoid
[01:17] Ilax : is call disgorge = wipe possibility
[01:17] Khellendros : cause shit happens and we've had to many stolen by LS camp while kill

And this is just 1 LS out of many i ended to fight with, but like i said, i am over it now, and i return the same favor to everyone, i am real sorry for the few people that are still respectful to other, but this is getting a minority in abyssea.

You are not helping your image at all, you know that, right?

[Kimble]

From that whole convo, looks like you were the one that started it, lol.

Honestly, why not go WHM/BLM and stun disgorge? Its how we do it.

It doesnt surprise me if more and more people start camping you and trying to take mobs from you since you seem to have given your self a rep.

[Ilax]

From that whole convo, looks like you were the one that started it, lol.

Honestly, why not go WHM/BLM and stun disgorge? Its how we do it.

It doesnt surprise me if more and more people start camping you and trying to take mobs from you since you seem to have given your self a rep.

Don't have to worry about my rep, been a good 7yr i am on fenrir, and people know me pretty well, they know what to expect from me, so do i know what to expect form them.

Now you think i sound rude because i was unhappy a 15 member LS camping me? So why be again me when i say i now camp other with my lol-trio box and take fun of stealing? I guess for you is sound ok to steal a triobox but not fair a trio box return the favor, believe w/e you wan at this point it wont change my way, and i hope more trio box do the same as me because i am sure i am not the only one that got camped by full LS while trio'ing NM.

Also keep in mind is game mechanic if your NM go yellow is your own fault, if you get charm and someone kill you is your own fault, there plenty of way to avoid it (as you said for glavoid, disgorge could be stuned) I agree i sucked 7 time and allowed them to steal, let see how skilled other group are :P

I can tell you they not much better when i see them wipe on orthrus with 15 member, and i take my fun steal, and of course i could tell them "stop fail" as it apply to me =)

Edit: of course i play the ass card, and no i am not that bad in game... just hope people realize more the hurt they do when they steal NM, as i said it would be easy for SE to fix it, Key item go to who pop NM, exept on full wipe, Item drop should follow same rule, till then there no other way to play the same game as everyone.

[Kimble]

The thing is, it doesnt sound like they stole anything the moment it went yellow, they took it after you wiped to it. Even with charm, ive stunned it twice, once with whm mule and once with me on blm but it can still use it a 3rd time.

This is what you dont get, if you do it BACK to the people that did it to you thats fine as turn about is fair play, but for you to go around and DO IT to people who did NOTHING to you, you are just being exactly like the people you complain about.

Why is that so hard to understand? Or do you just see it as you are doing it to them first because you feel they are going to do it to you at somepoint?

[Korpg]

If an alliance get their pop stolen from you, by the sounds of it, they will get it back, you know that, right?

[Kensagaku]

Edit: of course i play the ass card, and no i am not that bad in game... just hope people realize more the hurt they do when they steal NM, as i said it would be easy for SE to fix it, Key item go to who pop NM, exept on full wipe, Item drop should follow same rule, till then there no other way to play the same game as everyone.

Gotta love that last line. "No way to play the same game as everyone in an MMO." I wonder what MMO means, hmm...

That aside, the convo you posted is just making you look all that much worse, to be honest. You're showing yourself to be a poor person; I don't encourage stealing NMs just because they go white for a half a second, nor do I condone it. I can see people taking from a wipe; that's a reasonable "steal". You lost your mob completely, you have no reason to complain. But if something simple happens and they're not completely floundering, then you're just being an ass. Which you're showing yourself to be regardless, and honestly I'm wondering if that's the reason you have to tri-box...

Not saying the other linkshells were in the right for "camping you", but at the same time, an eye for an eye makes the world go blind. No sense in taking your "revenge" over something so petty as a few game pixels.

[Sparthos]

When you 3box, there are risks and that's part of dealing w/new XI.

I had a tale where a linkshell was watching me fight Ogopogo and as luck would have it, we got smashed by Tidal Wave at 1%. No Fanatic Powders etc etc.

Ogo went white and the LS and me had a battle of claims where eventually I lost and they killed it. I tossed a naughtyword by reflex but got an invite to lot my souls.

I felt like an ass. Rightfully so.

The PT leader who was also doing souls didn't want my pop to go to waste. Though I cursed like an asshurt crybaby, the group acted like adults, we both apologized and both parties reconciled.

tl;dr: For every group of jerks, there are level headed people who are willing to play ball. Being asshurt does nothing but make you look childish.

[Rezeak]

I request a -1 post on your account for this sad post.

@Karbuncle, like i explained it been more then only 1 person, more then 1 group.

Here a partial log [of course ill remove name to be nice]

[00:56] >>Ry***** : ???
[00:57] >>Ry***** : can i help you?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : or you just here to steal?
[00:57] >>Ry***** : (Leave)
[00:58] Ry*****>> my shell will take it only if you wipe to it. but my shell wont help >< if i was here alone. i'd help
[00:58] >>Ry***** : plenty of pop (Leave)
[00:58] >>Ry*****: stop doing shaddy stuff
[00:58] Ry*****>> aint doing anything lol please continue and good luck^^
[00:58] >>Ry***** : you and your LS ruin the game
[00:59] >>Ry***** : let other do they stuff, stop stealing NM

So see them not moving i tryed another strategy...

[00:59] Ilax : GT$# or i blist everyone in your LS, last warning
[01:00] Big*****ark : disgorge (Do you need any help?)
[01:00] Sk***te : Ouch a Warning >.>
[01:00] Ri***n : sorry
[01:00] Ilax : go pop your own NM
[01:00] Ilax : stop your B#llsh$t steal nm
[01:00] Big*****ark : language dont cure
[01:00] Big*****ark : im offended
[01:00] Ilax : go camp something else then me seriously
[01:01] Big*****ark : i like to watch
[01:01] Ilax : watching me like a crow running over my head?
[01:02] Siv***d : Ilax makes a post on the Officla Forums: [To The Devs] I don't want other LS's watching me fight NMs!
[01:02] Siv***d : Devs fall for it

So after a while i just got tire see 15 player from that LS watching me if i would die to get a "FREE NM" so i just decided to use a brew, and by mistake used a WS same time glavoid used JA.


[01:14] Big*****ark weeps in sorrow before Khellendros.
[01:14] Big*****ark : go get another brew
[01:15] Khellendros readies Blade: Ten.
[01:15] Ilax gains 3000 limit points.

they start acting even more like clown when i start spaming who i was blisting:

[01:15] Ex********ss : lol the whole ls??
[01:15] Si****d : Want the other members of our LS?
[01:15] B**id : /laugh @ Noobs
[01:16] B**id : LOL IIax Failz
[01:16] Khellendros : if didn't care to steal NM, why stare? worth waste brew make sure you not steal on one
[01:16] Ilax : fail? go low man it see who fail.
[01:17] Si****d : Why can't we watch?
[01:17] Ry***ts : why brew tho? lol its only Glavoid
[01:17] Ilax : is call disgorge = wipe possibility
[01:17] Khellendros : cause shit happens and we've had to many stolen by LS camp while kill

And this is just 1 LS out of many i ended to fight with, but like i said, i am over it now, and i return the same favor to everyone, i am real sorry for the few people that are still respectful to other, but this is getting a minority in abyssea.

Not being funny if i saw anyone act like this i'd prolly want to kill them more in charm just saying this isn't aimed at you it's aimed at anyone that causes grief cause a group is just standing somewhere is dumb if u don't like playing with other pple FF1-10 and 12/13 is there for you.

[Kimble]

FFXIV works if you want to play alone too.
:P

[Ilax]

I don't know why you guy sound like i care anymore lol, i camp other group too, just to steal they NM, don't you see that ironic? Again you all sound like is fair to loose a NM because i trio box, but if i steal other is not correct, you guy seriously need need pick a choice and stick at it and not say how is fair with your random reason. To me is totally ok now, they can steal the few NM i lost, i can steal way more.

Kinda find pathetetic the "We only going to take if you wipe", like it justify your steal.. You can believe w/e you wan, imo is a fair game, you don't wan people steal your mob, play better.

For LOG comment, i asked them to leave, instead they gather they entire LS ready to steal, i sound rude, hmm okay maybe, go in the street with a shot gun next to a COP, and let me know if he going to be nice with you. If you still don't get the point, then sorry you one of those in game that never understand anything exept when it happen to yourself or your group, so w/e,


FFXIV works if you want to play alone too. :P

Who say i wan play alone? Maybe is my new fun now stealing other NM, maybe YOU should go play FF14 if you don't like FFXI mechanic, how about that?

[Ilax]

Why is that so hard to understand? Or do you just see it as you are doing it to them first because you feel they are going to do it to you at somepoint?

Exactly the problem, they will eventually end to do it, the reason can be anything, they LS leader forced them, they got tire of loosing nm, they find the theory: if NM go yellow is fair to get, they read forum and figure they should do the same, add the reason you want, all i can say is it happen frequently now. GM wont ban you for stealing NM, they only going to apologize that someone did it to you, is result i got form GM, and i can't blame them too, is the normal mechanic of the game, is just not everyone that yet understood.

And of course, in game i wont say: I'm just watching you guy to steal.... no no don't get me wrong, i am a nice guy, i just tell them: I'm just watching ^^ i only take if you wipe.

*Again i play the rude card* witch is not really me in game, but i am sure you understand more the matter saying it that way.

[Ilax]

You guy also have to make the difference between someone waiting NM go yellow because a PT wiped or w/e the reason, and someone that go there and interact to force NM go yellow to take it (Mass cure/bene/invincible) and god know all those trick ppl did back in the time @ HNM scene. Of course if you do that GM will instant ban you, but get a NM because he un-claim, they wont do anything, is the way the game is programmed and the way game intended to be.

Keep in mind Playing the game rude is by far not again ToS... But you for sure /welcome to not go in that direction if wan stay far of drama, QQ, and hate.

[Kimble]

Lol you're awesome. I hurt others because one day they might hurt me but I have no proof of that at all.

Is that how you function irl too? Better to never make any friends irl because they are just going to turn on you one day.

[Ilax]

Social RL and in game is 2 different thing, inside abyssea and outside abyssea is again two different thing, Abyssea is same deal as it was before in HNM scene, wait maybe you never did HNM? If so, then ask any HNM ls and any GM what was the RULE if KB, Fafnif, Amanantoise, Tiamat and so on go yellow unclaim, trust me they had no mercy. How you guy ended to think rule/Ethic/Game mechanic changed with Abyssea? Did HNM ls was camping other HNM LS in case they wipe? Hell yes.

[Kimble]

I did HNM and you cant really compare 21-72 hour timed pops to NMs that pop every 10 mins or take 10 mins to build a pop set.

[Ilax]

10 min to build glavoid set, i wan see how you do that. For HNM it was 3h window, 1h30 average, about the same amount of time you spend to build glavoid set. (Of course i am not looking for the 72h one, no one was camping the 72h, but people was leaving a mule to tiamat (to only name him) and LS was gathering only on pop).

Anyway i can for sure compare HNM scene, same Q.Q at camp, same mechanic, same kind of GM call, only thing that different is how you can pop the NM multiple time and HNM was 1 per day. Was is more rude on HNM scene? hell yes it was, is also why i mentioned it, did anyone got banned because they steal other LS when HNM go unclaim, no way! That should answer better Korpg post. is not a matter of grief but more about game mechanic/competition.


There still stuff you not allow to do, like claim the EFT nm in attowa Chasm, and die next to the group fighting Ulhuadshi then take they NM, that go again ToS, but claiming NM because is yellow is not again ToS. Kill someone charmed and steal his NM, is no again ToS. For sure is rude and you be hated to do so, but don't expect a GM todo anything about it.

[Pikel]

I love charm. We fought a mob a few weeks back that charmed and our whm kept getting close so eventually when he was charmed I just built tp off him to proc blu. He die's or he GTFO either way we got our drops. lol

[Korpg]

That should answer better Korpg post. is not a matter of grief but more about game mechanic/competition.


Obviously you don't know what "grieving" means.

It is not the act itself, it is the intent to do harm, that is grieving. Taking one mob and killing it, that is not grieving. Going around a linkshell and taking any/all mobs that turn yellow, or camping a mob that does AoE charm and taking all mobs that turn yellow after another group has pop'd it, that is grieving.

Like I said, it is not the action, it is the intent.

[Ilax]

It is not the act itself, it is the intent to do harm.

Who said i wan harm them? Abyssea is a play field where is a tons of competition, i am not expecting them to have pity for me if my NM go yellow, so is fair game as i said. It would be "intent to do harm" if i expect them to not steal but camp a group just to steal, hope you make the difference, i already said i am over it now and i do accepted that other are ready to steal my NM, nothing i can change on that side, only DEV have power to make a change, not me.

If people wan cause drama / Q.Q or blist as i did, just because they NM got steal in abyssea, then you be ending like me and have your blist @ 200/200 and you go no where acting like that.

[Korpg]

Who said i wan harm them?

Why are you following them then?

[Ilax]

Why are you following them then?

it call "offensive play", not "grieving" as you keep thinking, and is nothing new in the game.

[Kimble]

I can see why you are reduced to having to tri-box everything.

[Ilax]

I can see why you are reduced to having to tri-box everything.

No, i am active in 3 active LS, Totalchaos (dynamis), Twilight (abyssea) and SdorianKnightII (abyssea) The trio-box is just for my personal empy weapon, i would not train someone 10 to 34h long just for me, i also did help 4 friend to get they empy, you can verify by yourself if you wan: Angalo, Angelus, Lesil, Shoyu, also currently helping 3 more to get they empy. I gave over 8 Loki free so far, yes i did not sell, note i should sell... i miss a good way for gil.. meh like i really need that. You be surprise to see the amount of +2 item i give for free, i am only interest in Empy item when i trio box, and i never refuse anyone that is interest into +2, i careless about those item, is just the left over for me.

I maybe sound like an ASS, i agree on that, but that is just because i don't hide how i now play "offensive". Meet me in game and you probably have a way differen opinion on me.

[Karbuncle]

No, i am active in 3 active LS, Totalchaos (dynamis), Twilight (abyssea) and SdorianKnightII (abyssea) The trio-box is just for my personal empy weapon, i would not train someone 10 to 34h long just for me, i also did help 4 friend to get they empy, you can verify by yourself if you wan: Angalo, Angelus, Lesil, Shoyu, also currently helping 3 more to get they empy. I gave over 8 Loki free so far, yes i did not sell, note i should sell... i miss a good way for gil.. meh like i really need that. You be surprise to see the amount of +2 item i give for free, i am only interest in Empy item when i trio box, and i never refuse anyone that is interest into +2, i careless about those item, is just the left over for me.

I maybe sound like an ASS, i agree on that, but that is just because i don't hide how i now play "offensive". Meet me in game and you probably have a way differen opinion on me.


You shouldn't worry about asking for help with an Empyrean, Especially if you've helped so many people get one. You should work out a mutual deal with your friends if your goal is to not "mooch" one.

For instance, right now my friends and i are getting all of us an empyrean (well, I'm going for Mandau), We do a couple hours of Empyrean Weapon farming, then do Dynamis.

We go on the weekends when everyones online. So far we've finished 4 out of the 6 we have goals for. I'm on stage 3 of Mandau with 22/61 Shells too :o (I'm being lazy lately, I could be done with Shells if i had gone more often)

If you work out a system with your friends you won't need to tri-box. I can understand not wanting to impose on friends, However if they really are friends they should have no problem helping you. And if its a "I dont want them to help me with no reward" kind of thing, Do what i do, Help them build weapons too.

I guess theoretically this make take longer in the long run for an individual though...

[Kimble]

Yeah, seems to be how it is with my group. We are all friends and no one feels like they are using anyone because everyone knows if they need something, they will get help.

Also, with all the stages now giving out +2 items, its not like they arent getting anything out of the deal.

Plus yeah, if you helped so many of your friend with their weapons, why would it bother them to help you in return?

[Ilax]

Well yes, is actually what i am doing too, currently helping Angelus to finish his Aegis (he on last stage, ~800 ordel left for full completion) as i did help littlechaos (amano) and cooncon (Gungir) also helping grimace in salvage for his mythic (i never take any alex, always give to him 4 free)


If you work out a system with your friends you won't need to tri-box. I can understand not wanting to impose on friends, However if they really are friends they should have no problem helping you. And if its a "I dont want them to help me with no reward" kind of thing, Do what i do, Help them build weapons too.

Well i was leading "twilight ls" for empy weapon and +2, i just ended to give up due to drama, they are still very good friend, just they not ready to spend that much time in abyssea as i do, and it was pretty much the main part of drama. Instead forcing them to come help each other (as it used to be) i just do everything on my own, at least i am no longer feel like i abuse of them. (or feel abused)

I guess you need to lead to understand it, all i can say is how we did spend time to help a friend, then that friend turned MIA after he get his empy done, but since i am the leader i have other friend asking me to help in return for the help they gave me for that guy that is no longer playing or interest to invest time in abyssea. So do the math, all i was doing is accumulating a help debt for trying help them, not going to hide it come stressful at some point, and i lost my mind and say, fuck all this bullshit, and left to do everything on my own.

I still help them no matter what, but not everyday as i used to do, and not for everything, in revenge i don't ask them to help me on anything. I feel better since that day, of course is way harder and could be way better with help, but just avoiding drama made 50 Glavoid shell 5x more easy to trio Box.

Anyway, story is a bit more complex then that, but you can see a good picture of it, i did H2H (full completion) GA (47/75 claw on last upgrade) and i have no debt to anyone, and just that make me feel better.

[Runespider]

I can understand the anger at vultures but the best way to deal with them is to try ignore them and concentrate on the fight, less chance of a wipe then. If I see a group in trouble and I see others desperately trying to vulture it I'll either team up and help or cure bomb them to keep them alive, I despise vultures.

There is a difference between someone that will take it and kill it just before it depops from a full wipe and someone standing as close as possible with their head bobbing on the NM, I really hate people that do that.

Anyway though, for glavoid most just use a stun bot to make sure they stop the one shot TP moves. Takes all the skill of turning on the TV, people who play legit in small groups will die to that move now and then so it's nothing to be ashamed of.


Anyway, story is a bit more complex then that, but you can see a good picture of it, i did H2H (full completion) GA (47/75 claw on last upgrade) and i have no debt to anyone, and just that make me feel better.

Takes a lot of concentration and skill to trio box legit, seems like you are very successfull at it^^

Also I have to be honest, if you relied on friends you would get a lot less done ingame. There are very few friends you will make ingame that genuinly just want to help you or work as a team, they want stuff for themselves and see help as a means to an end. This isn't everyone of course since some are genuine good friends but that is what a hell of a lot of ingame friends amount to.

If what you are doing is working for you (and it obviously is) then more power to you and don't let anyone tell you that isn't the way to do it.

[Myrrh]

Don't want to be attacked while charmed? Don't get charmed. Problem solved.

[Ilax]

If what you are doing is working for you (and it obviously is) then more power to you and don't let anyone tell you that isn't the way to do it.

Well ya, but don't get me wrong, i don't mind to help i actually do that so often, the only thing that turn me off is how sometime you help someone and you realize how he refuse to help his own self and expect you do everything for him, and that is even worse when that happen to be a good friend.

Idk i hardly can explain it... A good example i can give is how we burned our self for a month doing glavoid and itzpapilot, and at some point (after earth quake) a tons of our member turned MIA, and that friend was poking me none stop to finish his ewep and we did, it was hard/stressful etc, and one day (when he was @ 45/50) we had not the proper group/setup to do itzpapilot, and baam he start shouting and do stuff on his own, then start tell me how that random group is helping him better then us (like all we did for him don't count because we can't handle his last 5... the day he want)

Idk i have more stressful example i can list but i doubt i need to go in all detail since they are still good friend.. All i can say is, when you trio box your self here the advantage:

#1) You can start when you wan and can stop when you tire.
#2) you don't have to force friend to stay awake 10h for you. (witch refer to #1 but for your friend)
#3) You are in control of the fight (TP feed/Hate control etc.. and if you die is 100% your fault).
#4) You have no debt to anyone.

Don't wan to be rude here, but i find that was less harrasment that way. (for me and for friend)

[Olor]

My group invited two nearby, random newbies for Atma of Allure while we finished off a Masamune's Level80 stage. Didn't charge them or anything.

Suck it, angry people. Cheers to everyone out there who at least tries not to be total s**theads.

I <3 you... noobs everywhere thank you