Bio III, can I has it.

[Urteil]

Please give Bio III to Dark Knights.

It is Dark Magic.

Why does RDM, this job with terrible, lowly, sniveling, poor Dark Magic rating have Dark Magic we do not.

Please give us something, not to mention it would work out rather well with Occult Acumen + AF boots + Oneiros Rope.





It would make up for giving us such terrible category 2 merits:

Dark Seal - Well at least I can use this with all those cool Dark Magic Enfeeb. . .oh wait, I made myself sad.

Diabolic Eye - I'm terrible at my job and have no interest in gearing correctly or buying food for tough fights!

Muted Soul - What is -PDT, what is Seigan? I can has Third Eye? I sub THF now.

Desperate Blows - One out of four, if we were jumping out of an airplane you'd have a 25% chance of living, congratulations.

[Korpg]

Bio III is a Red Mage Group 2 Merit Spell.

DRKs won't get it.

[Urteil]

Your ability to state the obvious never amazes me.


As if they couldn't just give it to us as a scroll.

[Korpg]

Your ability to think astounds me.

Name me one merit spell that is in scroll form.

[Urteil]

Captain obvious, obviously you know that one doesn't exist.

That's the purpose of the thread silly.

[Zatias]

Probably wont happen. Plus Diabolic Eye has its uses, just not with souleater. I really hope you're trolling. XP

Edit: Who knows, maybe we'll get a Job Merit Category 3 at 99, with Bio III as one of the options! I'm still guessing the other options would be better than Bio III D<

[Urteil]

Probably wont happen. Plus Diabolic Eye has its uses, just not with souleater. I really hope you're trolling. XP

I pray you are.

[Korpg]

Why would they give Bio III to DRK? BLM would have more uses than DRK.

[Zatias]

I pray you are.

That statement just makes me realize this is a waste of breath. :(

[Urteil]

That statement just makes me realize this is a waste of breath. :(

Truthfully.
My sarcasm detector has always been broken, and I fear it will never be repaired.

[Korpg]

You know, you might get more people to agree with you if you don't insult them.

[Urteil]

Why would they give Bio III to DRK? BLM would have more uses than DRK.


It lowers attack, DRK is in the fray or for soloing this would have merit.

DRK would have much higher initial damage due to higher skill.

Occult Acumen would easily give 10-11 TP per spell, even more with Oneiros Belt in the equation. Even more if we get more tiers of it at 99.

Near instant 11-12 tp for 54 mp, sweet.

[Korpg]

Absorb-TP not good enough?

[Zatias]

DRK would have much higher initial damage due to higher skill.

The damage per tick would also be greater, did you know that? :(

[Neisan_Quetz]

No, because idiots will overwrite Dia 3 which is better assuming you had a Rdm. It's bad enough people cast Bio 2 over Dia 2; the only purpose of the spell is for DoT Kiting/Solo, Drk doesn't need it.

[Alhanelem]

Why does RDM, this job with terrible, lowly, sniveling, poor Dark Magic rating have Dark Magic we do not.
Because dark magic is practically irrelevant except for the initial damage and it is more of an enfeeble-like spell.

[Rie]

No, because idiots will overwrite Dia 3 which is better assuming you had a Rdm. It's bad enough people cast Bio 2 over Dia 2; the only purpose of the spell is for DoT Kiting/Solo, Drk doesn't need it.

^ This.

As if we don't have enough DRKs spamming bio to skill up their dark magic skill.

[Raxiaz]

Spamming Bio won't overwrite Dia II or III.

Dia < Bio < Dia II < Bio II < Dia III < Bio III

It's better to spam Bio anyway because it costs the least amount of MP and AFAIK skill ups don't come more often with higher tier spells.

DRKs don't need Bio III.

[katz]

Bio III > Dia III > Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia
Bio III would over rule a Dia III

Edit Snap Raxiaz you beat me to it ^^
Oh wait he wasnt saying it did, he was saying other people would over write his Dia III by casting Bio III

[Korpg]

Bio III > Dia III > Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia
Bio III would over rule a Dia III


I think we all know that. Thanks for the insight you have given us...oh wait, nvm.

[Rie]

I wasn't trying to say that it does. I'm just saying, we don't need another bio for the DRKs to spam, especially not one that would overwrite the highest tier of dia.

[Zagen]

Why would you want a crappy spell that was only used for DoT kite soloing? Maybe I'm wrong but DRK is a crappy kite soloer compared to RDM, SCH, BLM.


The damage per tick would also be greater, did you know that? :(

Did you know without extra merits Bio 3 does less total dot than Bio 2? >.>

[Alienmonkey]

Oh how many years I have cursed at drks casting bio2........

[Zatias]

Did you know without extra merits Bio 3 does less total dot than Bio 2? >.>

Indeed I did, but I was talking about his "DRK version" >.>

[Zagen]

Indeed I did, but I was talking about his "DRK version" >.>
Nothing is different in the OP about Bio 3 so I assume it would be the same as Bio 3 from RDM with 1/5 Merits.

Both RDM and DRK can reach the current 291 cap so actually it won't do more damage per tick.

Regardless of these 2 points it is still a useless spell in the current game.

[Zyeriis]

He wants this for PVP not PVE, I can almost guarantee that.

[Zatias]

If that were the case with the drk spell being the same as the 1 rdm merit, then I take back all I said. Give DRK this spell, it would be too awesome to leave out.

And the 291 cap is still the cap limit? Tested and proven? I didn't know this because I never bothered with RDM Bio 3 :(

[katz]

I use BIO3 more as a solo RDM because it lowers the damage of the single mob Im fighting. I use DIA 3 mainly for parties where the whole group hit mobs and benefit from it having weaker defense. I dont use TP feeding spells unless asked for in Abyssea especially on NMs. I have a DRK and cant really see me using BIO 3 in any of the above situations

[Zagen]

And the 291 cap is still the cap limit? Tested and proven? I didn't know this because I never bothered with RDM Bio 3 :(

Dunno TBH I went off what is on Wiki. After I stopped soloing on RDM I dropped the merits in it.

[Rie]

Inc: DRKs get Bio3 instead of a real update.

[Zatias]

Inc: DRKs get Bio3 instead of a real update.

And they wonder where the "emo drk" expression came from. Looking at past drk updates I don't rule it out lol.

[Byrth]

293 isn't the cap, I think. Iirc, it never was the cap, it was just the max tier that people could hit on RDM at 75.

Anyway, Bio and Dia have always been messed up. If White Mage = Defensive magic / damage reduction and Black Magic = Offensive magic / Damage, then Bio should have been DEF down and Dia should have been Atk down. It's internally inconsistent to reverse the debuffs like that, and doesn't make sense. It would also have been awesome to have Atk down take priority.

That said, Bio III reduces Attack. You're asking for what amounts to a defensive debuff that you probably wouldn't end up casting on your Dark Knight, which makes this a troll thread. Should have thought a little and asked for a spell named "Fear" or something that inflicts brief and highly accurate Terror. It would essentially be Stun II with better screenshot potential.

[Darkshade]

Why can't we have Bio V, Dia V, Holy 2 and Banish V? They're in the .DATs man and that's just to list a few.

[katz]

Maybe they are for level 99......or more likely just for the mobs to whack us with.

[Heady]

Are you gonna ask to be able to cast death too, as its dark magic? Or maybe that stupid aoe meteor shower spell or w/e drks could use in X-2. I think most people who play drk would much rather have it boosted to AAA melee output, rather than a few cool niche spells added.

[Korpg]

I'm wondering when we are going to get diaga II.

It might help RDMs come back to cleave party status.

[Swords]

I'm kinda hoping in general they remove spells from merit categories and turn them into scroll spells. It's another one of those game mechanics that was designed for the 75 cap when they never intended to raise to begin with 5+ years ago, and now it hurts the job because it sounds more like a cop out for merits than actually making some abilities/traits that RDM, BLM, NIN, or other jobs could actually use.

I know there are a lot of things that need adjusting, and I really wish SE had looked more closely into the different things that would adversely affect the game and balance for jobs before they raised the cap. I just hope they at least plan future updates with thoughts about how greatly would the current and future mechanics be effected if they ever decide to go beyond 99, 2nd SJ, new merits, w/e.

[Raxiaz]

They can't go past 99 unless they rework the game from the ground up. Hint: not gonna happen.

Second SJ would be nice but rather useless. It'd only be level 24 if it followed the 1/2 level pattern. It'd be too broken, as well, I'd think. PLD99/NIN49/WAR24 would be OP.

New merits are already planned for 99. IIRC SE stated they weren't going to be "merits" but a system for 99s was planned.

The only merits I see having a problem are the ones for mages. Merit spells particularly. But I don't see why SE won't just change them.

Merit category 2 for RDM could look like this:
Blind enhancements (effect +2, duration +15 seconds)
Dia enhancements (effect +2, duration +15 seconds)

So on and so forth.

WHM:
Protect enhancement (effect +2)
Shell enhancement (effect +2)

Already been suggested numerous times. Haven't seen a rep comment on the issue yet.

[katz]

Not sure if this counts as off topic I apologise if it is but to me it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits and use the 2nd category to boost RDMs other abilities like the RDM are asking for. More merits for melee, damage,evasion, etc to define the RDM role of non healer better and give them the opportunity to boost their other aspects of the job. This would then free up the magic scrolls for other jobs if people wanted them allocating say to BLM or WHM. I know its a bit late in the Role for this change but maybe something could be written to give RDM merits back for reallocation and automatically add the merited spells to the magic list.

[Korpg]

Not sure if this counts as off topic I apologise if it is but to me it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits and use the 2nd category to boost RDMs other abilities like the RDM are asking for. More merits for melee, damage,evasion, etc to define the RDM role of non healer better and give them the opportunity to boost their other aspects of the job. This would then free up the magic scrolls for other jobs if people wanted them allocating say to BLM or WHM. I know its a bit late in the Role for this change but maybe something could be written to give RDM merits back for reallocation and automatically add the merited spells to the magic list.

So, basically you are saying that any RDMs, BLMs, and to the extent WHMs should not have any group 2 merits but every other job can?

Kindof fair for those jobs, huh? I mean, sure, Group 2 BLM merits are kindof worthless, but some still has some merits (fighting a mob weak against Wind, you got Aero V and Tornado II before you start going to the weaker spells, and they are both ~equal in power).

All this just to give DRKs a new toy?

[Raxiaz]

I call it more or less "all this to make the game make more sense for a 99 cap, not a 75 cap."

I disapprove of WHMs having to merit Protectra V and Shellra V when the single-target versions are available in scroll form. Granted they're equivalent to a 1/5 merit, that really just emphasizes the inconsistent ****-up that SE has created through the level cap raise. It all made sense at 75, but at 90 and soon 95/99 you can't tell me it's not an inconsistency, that it makes sense?

Logically it would be more beneficial and make more sense to have group 2 merits for RDM and WHM changed to "effect/potency/duration", even if those kind of merits are more or less for Group 1.

If they're afraid of changing merits because it will reset all Group 2 merits back to 0 for players for the jobs' group 2 merits that they changed, they're unreasonably afraid. It's not like one or two sessions of abyssea EXP will net all those merits back and then some.

[katz]

OMG KORPG stop mis reading what I write. When I said the 2nd set to be given to extra boosts to the other RDM skills it wasnt not to give them 2nd sets it was to boost their other skills with them.

Edited because KORPG doesnt like typos

[Korpg]

Not sure if this counts as off topic I apologise if it is but to me it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits and use the 2nd category to boost RDMs other abilities like the RDM are asking for. More merits for melee, damage,evasion, etc to define the RDM role of non healer better and give them the opportunity to boost their other aspects of the job. This would then free up the magic scrolls for other jobs if people wanted them allocating say to BLM or WHM. I know its a bit late in the Role for this change but maybe something could be written to give RDM merits back for reallocation and automatically add the merited spells to the magic list.

There is a reason why RDM has Slow II and WHM doesn't.

There is a reason why RDM has Blind II and BLM doesn't.

There is a reason why RDM has A+ enfeebling magic skill and everyone else doesn't.

There is a reason why BLM has AMIIs as merits, not spells.

There is a reason why WHM has Protectra/Shellra as merits, not spells you can buy from any NPC. I mean sure, you can have a SCH do the same Protect-ga and it be almost as good, but WHM is still the ultimate buffer, regardless of anyone's opinion in the matter.

I did not misread you, I wrote exactly what you said. I also gave my opinion as to why it won't work. It is not "freeing up spells and/or merits for RDM to use" it is giving useless spells to DRKs so they can have an excuse to stop swinging...again.... Why not ask for DRKs to have Blind II also? How about AMs? Teir 4s too? -gas?

Oh, and how can you accuse me of not reading when you can't even spell my name right?

[katz]

I respectfully request you do not make any comments to any suggestions that I make. You and I obviously dont speak the same language. Your continual snipeing remarks about everything I have written today is starting to wear thin. Any future comments made with the word you in it and its directed at me in its content will be deemed as harrassment. If you cant use the words I or we dont comment.

Edit bold comments specifically for someone who is continuing his harrasment

[Raxiaz]

Yes, there's a reason why RDM gets Slow II and WHM doesn't... But that doesn't mean RDM needs Slow II as a merit. There are plenty of spells that both jobs get through scrolls that only THOSE jobs get. Are you ****ing kidding me, Korpg?

I don't see where anyone is specifically saying "Slow II should be removed from RDM's merits and given to WHM and SCH." No one is saying that. People are saying that the merits should be readjusted so that the spells themselves can be scrolls while their effects can be further enhanced by merits.

If you can't understand this don't post in response.

[Byrth]

Yes, there's a reason why RDM gets Slow II and WHM doesn't... But that doesn't mean RDM needs Slow II as a merit. There are plenty of spells that both jobs get through scrolls that only THOSE jobs get. Are you ****ing kidding me, Korpg?

I don't see where anyone is specifically saying "Slow II should be removed from RDM's merits and given to WHM and SCH." No one is saying that. People are saying that the merits should be readjusted so that the spells themselves can be scrolls while their effects can be further enhanced by merits.

If you can't understand this don't post in response.

I don't know why you want to go scroll hunting just to end up with the same system that we already have.

[Swords]

It's because as a whole most people feel that these jobs are already suffering heavily due to the lack of need or want. Any job out there that has enfeebling skill can enfeeble just as well as a RDM and cap potency. So why do people want a RDM when they can have a WHM who can throw out 800+ cures or a BLM for triggers that can do the RDM's job as well. Group II merit spells obviously have more power to them, but your forced into a grim decision. You can A. put one merit into each Group 2 spell and have just a shred more power, or B. Pick two to maximize to make an actual difference over Tier I enfeebles. Of course other jobs that have Group II spells like NIN and BLM also suffer a similar decision so it overall puts them in a bind.

[Raxiaz]

I don't know why you want to go scroll hunting just to end up with the same system that we already have.

Scroll hunting? It'd be so easy for them to add almost every hard-to-find scroll as is to gold pyxides in abyssea. If they redid the merits that's most likely what they're going to do. I would hope they would, too, because in all honesty it doesn't make sense for tier 3s to cost 5-20k but tier 4 is 400-600k depending for each spell and then tier 5 is el-cheapo, probably even less than tier 3 because they're so common.

And it wouldn't be the same system, because the "effect/potency/duration" would apply to ALL tiers of Protect & Shell. ALL tiers of Blind, Paralyze, Slow, Dia, and Bio. Even Phalanx if they decided to go that route. Hell, the same could be done for BLM too.

It'd make more sense.

[Byrth]

Scroll hunting? It'd be so easy for them to add almost every hard-to-find scroll as is to gold pyxides in abyssea. If they redid the merits that's most likely what they're going to do. I would hope they would, too, because in all honesty it doesn't make sense for tier 3s to cost 5-20k but tier 4 is 400-600k depending for each spell and then tier 5 is el-cheapo, probably even less than tier 3 because they're so common.

And it wouldn't be the same system, because the "effect/potency/duration" would apply to ALL tiers of Protect & Shell. ALL tiers of Blind, Paralyze, Slow, Dia, and Bio. Even Phalanx if they decided to go that route. Hell, the same could be done for BLM too.

It'd make more sense.

No, actually you're just adding an unnecessary level of complexity. Base potency/duration is arbitrary, so your assumption that 5/5 potency would change isn't necessarily correct. Also, you're assuming they would add it to something easy to get (like a pyxis drop or NPC) instead of something harder (like an ENM, KC50, etc.)

Unless you're using a scroll system to generalize the spell to multiple jobs and just letting certain jobs use merits to enhance the potency of those spells (which you've specifically said isn't a necessary part of your plan), it doesn't make any sense to do it. You're basically just asking them to put scrolls into the game so you can have level "0" of all the Tier 2 merit spells, which is an issue that could be more easily (and completely) be rectified by increasing the merit cap on the Tier 2 category.

Adding scrolls is an unnecessary step that wastes developer resources and offers no benefit to the playerbase.

[Supersun]

Except increasing the merit cap does so for EVERY job which adds balance implications as a factor as opposed to just changing the merits to scrolls and making the merits potency which only affects those jobs.

Of course they likely won't do this as potency is what T1 merits do while T2 merits add JA, JT, and Spells.

[Korpg]

I don't see where anyone is specifically saying "Slow II should be removed from RDM's merits and given to WHM and SCH."

Specifically calling out Slow II removed, no, nobody has said that.

Saying that they need to remove Red Mage Group 2 Merit spells, then yes, katz did.


it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits

Quoted to conserve the original quote before katz deletes it.

Why remove the spells from RDM Group 2 Merits and not make them available to all jobs able to cast the I versions of the spell?

[katz]

Specifically calling out Slow II removed, no, nobody has said that.

Saying that they need to remove Red Mage Group 2 Merit spells, then yes, katz did.
Not sure if this counts as off topic I apologise if it is but to me it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits and use the 2nd category to boost RDMs other abilities like the RDM are asking for. More merits for melee, damage,evasion, etc to define the RDM role of non healer better and give them the opportunity to boost their other aspects of the job. This would then free up the magic scrolls for other jobs if people wanted them allocating say to BLM or WHM. I know its a bit late in the Role for this change but maybe something could be written to give RDM merits back for reallocation and automatically add the merited spells to the magic list.


Quoted to conserve the original quote before katz deletes it.

Why remove the spells from RDM Group 2 Merits and not make them available to all jobs able to cast the I versions of the spell?
I was not saying remove them from RDM, I was saying remove them and make them spells that RDM would continue to have. Please stop taking my words out of context.

[Korpg]

I was not saying remove them from RDM, I was saying remove them and make them spells that RDM would continue to have. Please stop taking my words out of context.

Wait, I thought we weren't talking to each other now? Didn't you respectfully request for me to not talk to you?

Or am I taking that out of context also?

[Byrth]

Except increasing the merit cap does so for EVERY job which adds balance implications as a factor as opposed to just changing the merits to scrolls and making the merits potency which only affects those jobs.

Of course they likely won't do this as potency is what T1 merits do while T2 merits add JA, JT, and Spells.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the second thing. Tier 2 merits past the first for spells add potency to those spells.

Adding Tier 2 merits to every job doesn't have severe balance implications, because very few jobs have more than two good Tier 2 merits. If everyone merits the 10 most optimal things, then the next 5 will necessarily be less advantageous than any 5 of the first 10. There are no balance issues to talk about, unless you mean jobs like RDM getting more potent/more Tier 2 spells, which was (I believe) the whole point.

[Zatias]

Flame wars! Flame wars!

I agree with not removing the spell from merits and making it a scroll, that is kinda stupid in my opinion (worth 2 rotting fly corpses). Should we remove Warrior's Charge from WAR merits and make it a normal ability? Not a spell I know but its almost the same concept.

Also RDM has few qualities that people actually need these days. If we are giving Slow II to other jobs, RDM should get Cure V back.

Back on topic, DRK doesn't need Bio III. Would be interesting, but no it doesn't need it.

[katz]

I suggest you read the statement I made to you.

[Korpg]

I agree with not removing the spell from merits and making it a scroll, that is kinda stupid in my opinion (worth 2 rotting fly corpses). Should we remove Warrior's Charge from WAR merits and make it a normal ability? Not a spell I know but its almost the same concept.

Also RDM has few qualities that people actually need these days. If we are giving Slow II to other jobs, RDM should get Cure V back.

Back on topic, DRK doesn't need Bio III. Would be interesting, but no it doesn't need it.

Pretty much this.

[Supersun]

Adding Tier 2 merits to every job doesn't have severe balance implications, because very few jobs have more than two good Tier 2 merits. If everyone merits the 10 most optimal things, then the next 5 will necessarily be less advantageous than any 5 of the first 10.

The balance issue lies in that some jobs like Drk don't really gain anything from additional T2 merits while other jobs like Dancer actually gain quite a bit. Now like you said this isn't a severe concern, but it's still one that would need looking into.

And what I mean was that 99% of all T2 merits add a new JA, JT, or Spell with additional merits modifying them.

T1 merits modify pre existing JA, JT, and Spells that the job already had.

[Raxiaz]

But we're not giving Slow II to other jobs, it's staying as an ascertainable spell by level for RDMs. If it was given to other jobs, maybe that wouldn't be so bad, because then RDMs could just merit "Slow potency" and be done with it...

Honestly, I don't see how that's a concept beyond understanding for some, and inapplicable to the other spells of merit, but whatever. I'm done here, and have nothing more to say.

(Quite literally, I don't know of anything else I could say for tribute.)

[Korpg]

But if we are giving Bio III to DRKs, why not other spells to other jobs?

Assuming, however, that SE actually listens to the OP.

[Rezeak]

Imo we don't need it as DRK....

-5% more attack, -2 hp per tick really isn't something to be bothered about.

Either way here the main reason RDM has it and it's that RDM is the main enfeebling mage thats all there is too it.

As for your arguement .... Skill ... Skill isn't a arguement ever if you want to use it as a Arguement look at COR it's dagger skill is higher than it's gun and parry skill is A- soooo COR should be a parry tank that WSes with daggers .... no.
Ps. RDM can sub SCH and have B+ which isn't that low and with a staff it prolly beats DRK for resists so w/e.

Bio III will make up for group 2 merits.... please read what haste does and be thankful we have one amazing group 2 choice .Now if that seems to be a problem go look other group2 choices for most jobs they only get 1 good one espically with the DDs and some don't even have 1 good choice like Desperate blows for example MNK.

Occult tp gain.... no lol.... i'll explain if ya want tp there a little thing melees do for tp it's called hitting the mob.

Either way there's so many more things that would be more useful for DRK than Bio III i mean if you want an attack down spell ask for Absorb-attack or something it would make more sense than Bio III not that i want either lol.

Lastly imo Dark seal,Diabolic eye or Muted soul imo is more useful for DRK than what Bio III would be.

[Silverleaf]

Muted Soul - What is -PDT, what is Seigan? I can has Third Eye? I sub THF now.

Did you even read what this trait does???

[Covenant]

Let's all just admit that the whole merit discussion is a special case. SquareEnix truly didn't think they would be goin passed lvl 75. They create the merit category to give a final special feel. That is to say, individually all jobs and players would pick and choose what abilities they liked on a personal level. Some would choose bio 3 other slow II. With the increase of job levels, this "special-ness" is less rewarding. Why cry over AM, when -JA spells are stronger over time?

As a redmage first and Darkknight, I do feel for the lack of Bio3 for my Darkknight. However, I don't advocate giving BIo3. There are still plenty of Darkknight specific suggestions just to name a few...

Curse, a spell which shaves a percentage of HP and MP.
"Demi" aka dark damage magic. Tiered I-IV.
Absorb tier II - this one might be tricky due to stat caps if one exists. But could easily be a non-decaying/duration effect.
"Dark Storm" - AoE dark magic... Think a DRK ONLY version of AM-aga.
All the "other" virus effects.

So while a lack of Bio III, is simply annoying in my opinion. That lack of above options are a travesty.

As an aside, there something im not understanding about TP and occult TP. If TP is based on weapon delay, why does the TP return for magic so low? 2-5points. A dagger gives 5 TP and that's a fast swing. A sword is usually 5-7TP, big weapons what 10? A tier III nuke 3 TP or so for however many casting seconds... I think something IS wrong.

[Afrohatch]

DRK needs to have ancient magic too, IMO. Sure, you'll lose 4-5 swings while casting, but you'll even out when waiting for recast. Make it happen SE, I hate swinging my weapons ><

[Covenant]

@afrohatch, not sure if your being sarcastic... But, the majority of AM usage is the "opening" spell before agro. Most blackmages open with AM and switch to faster nukes if something isn't dead. It sorta like all the battle strategies which have melee's sleep themselves with TP for that BIG opening weaponskill/skill chains.

So a Darkknight wouldn't necessarily spam this Dark AM. But, would either open with one or magic burst one.

[Alhanelem]

"Demi" will never happen. It's too powerful in an MMO context. The damage would have to be capped really low. Note that the only two examples of this effect in the game from players come from the same 2-hour.

[Raxiaz]

"Demi" CAN happen, it DOES NOT have to do damage equal to 1/4 of the mob's HP... It can do purely dark-based damage, not that hard to comprehend.

But in all honesty, darkness is a horrible element in this game. It gets resisted by practically everything and all manifestations of "damage" of it are really disappointing. Even Skillchain: Darkness is disappointing. Very rarely do I ever see it not get resisted. Probably fighting the wrong kind of mobs, but still.

[Byrth]

But in all honesty, darkness is a horrible element in this game. It gets resisted by practically everything and all manifestations of "damage" of it are really disappointing. Even Skillchain: Darkness is disappointing. Very rarely do I ever see it not get resisted. Probably fighting the wrong kind of mobs, but still.

Yeah, considering Darkness skillchain actually does ice damage most of the time, I'm going to go with "No." What the heck are you doing, skillchaining imps and undead?

Drain is fairly accurate and very cheap for the damage it does. The main problem with Darkness damage is the lack of sources. Impact is impractical, which leaves Drain, Drain 2, and the Bios. Bios have very low base damage, Drain 2 is given to the wrong job, and Drain is a level 10~12 spell. What do you want?

[Covenant]

I'm in the camp that sometimes damage ISN'T, necessarily more important than style of play. I think it would just look bad-ass if a DRK is enveloped in a dark auras while casting and burst even if only for 300damage. There's plenty of mobs weak to dark element...usually plants, light elemental, carby and alexander, colibri's (even if they reflect).

I don't know if a DRK can open a darkness skill chain, but if they can they could finish with a magic burst dark. Also, I don't know about drain... What happens when your HP is capped? Does damage still occur?

[Elexia]

Probably wont happen. Plus Diabolic Eye has its uses, just not with souleater. I really hope you're trolling. XP

Edit: Who knows, maybe we'll get a Job Merit Category 3 at 99, with Bio III as one of the options! I'm still guessing the other options would be better than Bio III D<

Given his in-game presence, I doubt he's the troll type.

[Yarly]

I don't know if a DRK can open a darkness skill chain, but if they can they could finish with a magic burst dark. Also, I don't know about drain... What happens when your HP is capped? Does damage still occur?

Yes drk can open darkness skillchain
yes drain still does damage

[Zatias]

Given his in-game presence, I doubt he's the troll type.

Did you just nitpick this single comment to defend this guy? XD And not even contribute to the argument? Have to ask why XP

[Alhanelem]

"Demi" CAN happen, it DOES NOT have to do damage equal to 1/4 of the mob's HPIt's not demi if it's not "% of target's HP in damage".

Just add a line of spells like the Banishes called Scourge, which is what said spelll is called in FFXIV. Banish and Scourge are equivelent, just opposing "elements."

[Sanjurio]

Just love how this creeper douchewaffle hasn't really said anything else in this thread...

[Jar]

YEAH GUYS WHY CANT DRK JUST REPLACE BLM AND NUKE SHIZZLES

enough of this stupid demi and bio talk Magic is stupid and needs to much to be worthwhile

attack boosts and DPS boosts or GTFO and quit DRK period

the same guys posting this shit bring it up very time they can on the DRK forum too, and we say Stfu every time.

[Urteil]

I just want more Dark Magic than a job with the skill level a retarded goose.

Not really into nuking that much outside of wishful thinking or from a "logic" based on stats/skills standoint.

When I get Thunder III I'll get 30tp per nuke easily if we get new tiers of occult and moderate storetp + oneiros.

And that would be for initial pull, and niche uses, soloing, or ballista.

[Urteil]

Yes drk can open darkness skillchain
yes drain still does crap/***/negligible damage

Yes.

And fixed.

[Leonlionheart]

Name me one merit spell that is in scroll form.

I hope somebody has said SOMETHING about Protect and Shell V.

Yes, not the same as Protectra and Shellra V (Group 2 WHM meritable spells) but then again those jobs don't get Protectra or Shellra I, II, III, or IV anyway.

Not saying DRK needs Bio III in anyway, but if it was given to them just reduce the potency or up the MP cost.

No more QQ.

[Leonlionheart]

YEAH GUYS WHY CANT DRK JUST REPLACE BLM AND NUKE SHIZZLES

enough of this stupid demi and bio talk Magic is stupid and needs to much to be worthwhile

attack boosts and DPS boosts or GTFO and quit DRK period

the same guys posting this shit bring it up very time they can on the DRK forum too, and we say Stfu every time.

Emo fanboys who like the armor but not the real job.

If you want a job that gets DPS and Attack boosts strictly, go play WAR. From the sound of it all you want is to turn the job into a Dark Warrior rather than a Final Fantasy Dark Knight.

Warrior gets the highest damage,
Monk gets the highest white damage (non WS damage),
Thief gets to steal stuff,
Dark Knight gets arcane magic (debuffs, Confuse, Break, etc.), and heightened damage at the cost of HP (although usually this comes in the form of an AoE command that costs HP.)
Beast Master gets pets,
Samurai (traditionally gets Auto-Kill attacks) FFXI SAMs are quite happy with TP generation,
Dragoon gets Jumps (although FFXI jumps are very different from FF jumps in that you don't stay in the air long),
Ninja (traditionally) gets throw,
Ranger gets Ranged Attacks (almost always LOL),
Dancer can dance while debuffing,
Blue Mage is actually nothing like FF Blue Mage, in that generally it's not a Melee Mage and just a Cool Thingy Mage.

If you wan't to break away from FF lore, I suggest trying a different game.

I believe that DRK should have spells that are actually worth casting, in that they are more beneficial than the MP cost + added time between swings.

[Jar]

Emo fanboys who like the armor but not the real job.

If you want a job that gets DPS and Attack boosts strictly, go play WAR. From the sound of it all you want is to turn the job into a Dark Warrior rather than a Final Fantasy Dark Knight.

Warrior gets the highest damage,
Monk gets the highest white damage (non WS damage),
Thief gets to steal stuff,
Dark Knight gets arcane magic (debuffs, Confuse, Break, etc.), and heightened damage at the cost of HP (although usually this comes in the form of an AoE command that costs HP.)
Beast Master gets pets,
Samurai (traditionally gets Auto-Kill attacks) FFXI SAMs are quite happy with TP generation,
Dragoon gets Jumps (although FFXI jumps are very different from FF jumps in that you don't stay in the air long),
Ninja (traditionally) gets throw,
Ranger gets Ranged Attacks (almost always LOL),
Dancer can dance while debuffing,
Blue Mage is actually nothing like FF Blue Mage, in that generally it's not a Melee Mage and just a Cool Thingy Mage.


REad that to yourself and say your not being a closed minded Idiot lore really?

nothing but that can happen at all? You're not even correct on a great deal of those jobs anyway and you say you want to stick to lore?

Lore is something Easily avoided in FFXI because it is very trivial and Making a Good Game is much more beneficial than sticking to lore so everyone can play a game that is the exact same.

lets just stop giving THf eva bonus and give tham Seal I-XVI than

DRK can be the new RDM

And RDM doesnt even exists anymore :O

really man strike back with a Logical reason Why DRK should get alllll of this stupid magic and how it will enhance the game in anyway.

in all forms also DRK is a DD in the way that WAR is and overall alot of the jobs are copys of eachother

Because the game Has different jobs doesn't make them all need to be different exps when it would puts them into the situational category. overall there a VERY few things that matter in this game to make jobs usefull And SE needs to fullfil them before they deal with all the stupid things that make sense in lore but are not practical in everyday use.

also i see you're a WAR.90 so lets just make WAR a tank than as the game Was lored to be? Would you like that as a main WAR? nothing put DEF gear and gim WS from now on we stickin to lore!



If you want a job that gets DPS and Attack boosts strictly, go play WAR. From the sound of it all you want is to turn the job into a Dark Warrior rather than a Final Fantasy Dark Knight.


OHHHHH and i saw attack boost be mentioned. i forgot is that the one DRK gets 5 traits in ? oh yeah it is

[Leonlionheart]

Read that to yourself and say your not being a closed minded Idiot lore really?

nothing but that can happen at all? You're not even correct on a great deal of those jobs anyway and you say you want to stick to lore?

Lore is something Easily avoided in FFXI because it is very trivial and Making a Good Game is much more beneficial than sticking to lore so everyone can play a game that is the exact same.

lets just stop giving THf eva bonus and give tham Seal I-XVI than

DRK can be the new RDM

And RDM doesnt even exists anymore :O

really man strike back with a Logical reason Why DRK should get alllll of this stupid magic and how it will enhance the game in anyway.

in all forms also DRK is a DD in the way that WAR is and overall alot of the jobs are copys of eachother

Because the game Has different jobs doesn't make them all need to be different exps when it would puts them into the situational category. overall there a VERY few things that matter in this game to make jobs usefull And SE needs to fullfil them before they deal with all the stupid things that make sense in lore but are not practical in everyday use.

also i see you're a WAR.90 so lets just make WAR a tank than as the game Was lored to be? Would you like that as a main WAR? nothing put DEF gear and gim WS from now on we stickin to lore!

OHHHHH and i saw attack boost be mentioned. i forgot is that the one DRK gets 5 traits in ? oh yeah it is

1: Most of the jobs in this game come from the jobs in FFIII. The rest can be found in FFIV~V.
2: WAR was never a tank other than in FFXI. In III it could wear heavy armor, but it's ability was to deal more damage at the loss of defense. Actually, WAR completely follows it's lore as being able to debuff with it's weapon too (As seen in FFX, FFX-2)
3: Get your head out of the DD clouds, what you want for the job is to bring it closer to WAR rather than it's own job. You might as well blend them together.

Seriously though, if all you want is Attack bonuses and DPS bonuses why are you playing the job? WAR does all of that better in every way. The only time DRK stands a chance is outside abyssea when there is no BRD.

ANSWER THIS: There has to be some discrepancy between DDs or else why even play DRK? In terms of DD it loses to WAR and SAM and DRG in every way.

[Urteil]

DRK needs help.

Magic and Melee.

[Jar]

3: Get your head out of the DD clouds, what you want for the job is to bring it closer to WAR rather than it's own job. You might as well blend them together.

Seriously though, if all you want is Attack bonuses and DPS bonuses why are you playing the job? WAR does all of that better in every way. The only time DRK stands a chance is outside abyssea when there is no BRD.

ANSWER THIS: There has to be some discrepancy between DDs or else why even play DRK? In terms of DD it loses to WAR and SAM and DRG in every way.

DRK will openly rip a SAM in half in and outside of abyssea man hardly even a comp inside and outside DRK is Close if not ahead of DRG and WAR

I picked DRK for its ability to use GS and scythe witch is the major difference in all cases between it and other DD jobs.I wanted to see it swing those 2 weapons because i myself like them. Not a GA not a polearm and NOT a GK
the jobs are all literally the same /attack /ws repeat structure and they need to stay that way.

And the overall debate here isnt that DRK is becoming more like WAR its that If it doesn't get more DD abilitys just as war and sam and drg and mnk get this job will become useless really quickly. because it is a DD and DD is all it needs to be.

[Leonlionheart]

DRK will openly rip a SAM in half in and outside of abyssea man hardly even a comp inside and outside DRK is Close if not ahead of DRG and WAR

I picked DRK for its ability to use GS and scythe witch is the major difference in all cases between it and other DD jobs.I wanted to see it swing those 2 weapons because i myself like them. Not a GA not a polearm and NOT a GK
the jobs are all literally the same /attack /ws repeat structure and they need to stay that way.

And the overall debate here isnt that DRK is becoming more like WAR its that If it doesn't get more DD abilitys just as war and sam and drg and mnk get this job will become useless really quickly. because it is a DD and DD is all it needs to be.

So give WAR Scythe and GS skill, problem solved right?

SE has already stated that it wants to improve DRK's magic capabilities to clear the lines between it and other DDs.

P.S. (Marchx2 90Masamune SAM will WRECK a 90Torcleaver DRK all over the place, DRG inside abyssea will DESTROY DRK all the time, and buffed WAR will ALWAYS ALWAYS be better than everyone)

[Supersun]

1: Most of the jobs in this game come from the jobs in FFIII. The rest can be found in FFIV~V.

Puppetmaster?

[Leonlionheart]

Puppetmaster?

You know, I don't know what game that's from. Weird.

[Kimble]

Puppetmaster was made because they couldnt make Nercomancer work.

[Leonlionheart]

The more you know~

[Supersun]

Puppetmaster was made because they couldnt make Nercomancer work.

Well, sorta...

The main excuse had to do with skeletons being outside during day time made no sense.

so...they scraped the necromancer idea because of a small thematic issue XD

[Jar]

So give WAR Scythe and GS skill, problem solved right?

SE has already stated that it wants to improve DRK's magic capabilities to clear the lines between it and other DDs.

P.S. (Marchx2 90Masamune SAM will WRECK a 90Torcleaver DRK all over the place, DRG inside abyssea will DESTROY DRK all the time, and buffed WAR will ALWAYS ALWAYS be better than everyone)

Quote or didnt happen to SE claim





and the other shit is total speculation i know for a fact im not far behind Ukko's war because they CANNOT keep retaliation and make it as beneficial as having the mob always hit you all the time. the WS damage is moot because 72% of the time DRK will WS twice as fast if not faster and deal more damage gaining TP

have you ever really seen a Caladbolg DRK ripping things apart with last resort and aftermath? not even counting souleater or aftermath crits do 700~800 dmg and aftermath puts them 1500~ soul eater 1800~ with that 430 delay and alot of haste you swing like a mad man and i always out melee damage a WAR.

[Byrth]

There's a lot of hyperbole on both sides of this argument.

Caladbolg DRK is no joke, and the Last Resort update feels like it came a decade late, but durability is an issue for both it and WAR, even with LR/Seigan/3E. 3E is on a 30 second timer and gets wiped by some physical AoEs. 3E+shitty evasion is just not that durable.

Evasive 1H DDs are where it's at when it comes to lowering everyone's blood pressure in a run. You may kill a little slower, but you never die and need fewer people on support jobs (aka you make more people happy). In a Central Temenos Metal Chip run we did today, I was approaching 50% of party damage on Dancer/Ninja simply because I never died. There were a few times that we'd potentially have wiped if I was any less durable, and we'd certainly have timed out if we'd wiped (stayed under 15 minutes the whole run). One time (against the boss) I even had to go to Fan Dance to eat his TP move. My WAR would have eaten dirt and we'd have been out a Metal Chip (lolwhocares) and the majority of the 154 ABCs we got (that would have sucked). It also would have been no fun for anyone involved.

Runs (especially of old content stuff) are much more pleasant with a few evasive DDs instead of WARs, DRGs, and DRKs hogging healing resources and making the WHM stress over his/her MP pool. We play the game for the fun, and unless your healer is an MP-efficiency junky that really likes managing MP in highly stressful healing situations (there are people like this), then you're probably not improving the enjoyment of the group by taking a shitton of damage and stressing out your support. Furthermore, you're making your support not want to come support. You have to be in a group that's very motivated towards efficiency to make the argument that 2H DDs and stressed out healers are the best way to do events.

[Jar]

There's a lot of hyperbole on both sides of this argument.

Caladbolg DRK is no joke, and the Last Resort update feels like it came a decade late, but durability is an issue for both it and WAR, even with LR/Seigan/3E. 3E is on a 30 second timer and gets wiped by some physical AoEs. 3E+shitty evasion is just not that durable.

Evasive 1H DDs are where it's at when it comes to lowering everyone's blood pressure in a run. You may kill a little slower, but you never die and need fewer people on support jobs (aka you make more people happy). In a Central Temenos Metal Chip run we did today, I was approaching 50% of party damage on Dancer/Ninja simply because I never died. There were a few times that we'd potentially have wiped if I was any less durable, and we'd certainly have timed out if we'd wiped (stayed under 15 minutes the whole run). One time (against the boss) I even had to go to Fan Dance to eat his TP move. My WAR would have eaten dirt and we'd have been out a Metal Chip (lolwhocares) and the majority of the 154 ABCs we got (that would have sucked). It also would have been no fun for anyone involved.

Runs (especially of old content stuff) are much more pleasant with a few evasive DDs instead of WARs, DRGs, and DRKs hogging healing resources and making the WHM stress over his/her MP pool. We play the game for the fun, and unless your healer is an MP-efficiency junky that really likes managing MP in highly stressful healing situations (there are people like this), then you're probably not improving the enjoyment of the group by taking a shitton of damage and stressing out your support. Furthermore, you're making your support not want to come support. You have to be in a group that's very motivated towards efficiency to make the argument that 2H DDs and stressed out healers are the best way to do events.

everything outside of abyysea dies in 1 weaponskill on empy DRK or war and inside abyssea MP is .. infinite

[Byrth]

<_< Why the hell would you ever use DRK in Abyssea? If the argument is WAR vs. DRK, the argument is outside Abyssea.

Heck, if your argument hinges on not being able to use Retaliation, the argument is outside Abyssea.

[Leonlionheart]

Quote or didnt happen to SE claim


It was during the 2010 "Year Plan" before any of the level cap raises happened, when they actually announced them.



and the other shit is total speculation i know for a fact im not far behind Ukko's war because they CANNOT keep retaliation and make it as beneficial as having the mob always hit you all the time. the WS damage is moot because 72% of the time DRK will WS twice as fast if not faster and deal more damage gaining TP

have you ever really seen a Caladbolg DRK ripping things apart with last resort and aftermath? not even counting souleater or aftermath crits do 700~800 dmg and aftermath puts them 1500~ soul eater 1800~ with that 430 delay and alot of haste you swing like a mad man and i always out melee damage a WAR.

I commonly do 900 damage crits. No aftermath. I've done some up to 1.3k, no aftermath. Highest Aftermath Crit I've done was 2.2k. Highest ODD+Set Proc+Aftermath Crit I've done was 4.5k (No, it wasn't on ironclads) the second hit in that attack round was 4k, 8.5k in one attack round, you can have this.

Inside Abyssea there is no competition between WAR and anyone else.

Outside DRK has more favor, but because of survivability still unwanted. The job is broken, and in need of serious a serious change to make it something other than "I wish I was WAR."

Edit:


everything outside of abyysea dies in 1 weaponskill on empy DRK or war and inside abyssea MP is .. infinite

ITT: People only kill trash mobs.