SCH adjustments & Additions

[hideka]

so i find it annyoing that pretty much every thing boss wise in abyssea is IMMUNE to modus veritas, or it misses 50% of the time. so heres a list of suggesstions for sch additions and adjustments.

Modus Veritas: Reducing timer to 60 seconds, to make it more usefull versuses smaller monsters who die quicker.

Reasoning: at the current point and time we cant utilize this ability veruses the current bosses of the game, and we cannot utilize it effectively against smaller monsters due to its 20 minute recast timer.

Sublimation: Changing sublimation gear mechanics to allow then enhanced effect to be applied when the job ability is activated, and last the duration of the charge even when un-equipped.

Reasoning: while the recent tweaks to sublimation are Awesome, all of the nifty sublimation gear that is out now, has little to no efffect to the charging time due to the fact that you cant utilize the enhanced ammount more then 20% of the time in a combat situation, AND you have to set an idle macro (for those of you who dont use scripts), its a mega hassle.

Dark arts: adds natural magic attack. increasing by 1MAB every five levels from level 10, resulting in +16 Magic attack bonus.

Reasoning: without any form of natural MAB it is IMPOSSIBLE for sch to currently hold a candle to a blm. they trump us in both casting power AND speed now, putting us into the old rdm position of "Meh caster" where a BLM will ALWAYS be prefered over a SCH. even with 16 additional MAB, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for us to even compete with blm for sheer damage out put. the only thing we still trump BLM in is MP efficiency, which pales in comparison to a BLM/RDM who has pretty much -50% casting speed and +36MAB at all times. where as we have to use a job ability to reach those ammounts, severely limiting us. oh and not to mention, ONE Piece of our AF3 has mab. ONE. hell we dont even get access to the good MAB !@#$%&.. I.E: Eradico mitts, BARD can wear them SMN can wear them, but not sch. W T F

Light arts: Innate +10% cure potency
reason: SCH has a severe lack of Cure potency gear. this will also serve as a buff to RDMs who /sch.

Magic:

Cure 5.
Tier 2 Storm spells
Tier 2 Helicies

Buffing Addoloquim to 2-3 TP per tic(enhanced by gear if anything)

Fusion Magic: magic that has two elements for SC purposes, that carry additional effects.

Aduro Illustrio: Fusion elemental magic. Fire & light. Additional Effect: increases damage done by Ice and darkness for 30 seconds.

Glacialis Fons: Distortion elemental magic. Ice and water. Additional effect: Increases damage done by Wind and Fire for 30 seconds.

Ventus Reboare: Fragmentation Elemental magic. Thunder and wind. Additional effect: Increases damage done by earth and water for 30 seconds.

Terra Pullus: Gravitation elemental magic. earth and darkness. additional effect increases damage done by light and thunder for 30 seconds.

Omnino Creperum: Darkness elemental magic. Earth Darkness Ice water Elements. additional effect: increases damage dealt by all light alligned elements for 60 seconds.

Funditus Elucido: Light elemental Magic. Wind Fire Thunder Light elements. Additional effect: increases damage dealt by all darkness aligned elements for 60 seconds.

Every thing below this line is from a later post, adding onto this list of ideas.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
i feel that SCH still, even with the suggestions i made for fusion magic, would still need even more to bring it into its own unique role, cause ATM we quite honestly SUCK in the greater scheme of things. id like to see completely unique ideas for spells... some that come to mind:

________________________________________________________________________
Venificus Contego: (Magicians Shield)
White magic
Light arts: Enhanced by enhancing magic & MND
Dark arts: Enhanced by elemental magic & INT
Not restricted to arts
Accession Compatible
Perpetuance Compatible
Duration: 5 Minutes
Recast: 5 Minutes
MP: 150

Provides a Shield against magic. increased magic defense bonus VS spells matching targets current weather. augments Addenendum white & black.

Addenendum White additional effect: When shield is dispelled via damage, returns 50% of damage absorbed to caster & 25% to Affected target.
Addenendum black additional effect: when dispelled by damage, caster gains Magic attack equivalent to 5% of total damage absorbed towards next offensive spell cast.

Logic: this would give the SCH a spell that carries both defensive, offensive, and support capabilities when used in various situations. it would ideally max at 500 damage absorbed, thus returning a max of 250 MP on removal from current target, or 25 MAB & conserve MP for the next spell cast by the scholar based on the arts the spell was cast in

imo this spell would fit sch's tactical role PERFECTLY, the MP ammount might seem like alot upon return, but keep in mind its got a 5 minute recast on it, and the target has to take specifically magical damage for it to be activated.


________________________________________________________________________
Magus Validus (magic might)
White magic & Black magic aligned (neutral)
Light arts: Enhanced by Enhancing magic
Dark arts: Enhanced by Enhancing magic
Not restricted to arts
compatible with all strategems.
Duration: 5 Minutes
Recast: 10 seconds
MP: 30

Increases Enhancing magic effects based off of current arts.

Light arts: enhances all white magic aligned enhancing magics effects by +1 on current target. Provides caster a small boost to light arts bonuses based on number of targets effected by spell (+2% to each light arts effect per target effected, caps at +10%. this extends to all bonuses applied from gear effects to light arts)

dark arts: enhances all dark magic aligned enhancing magics effects by +1 on current target. Provides caster a small boost to dark arts bonuses based on number of targets effected by spell (+2% to each dark arts effect per target effected, caps at +10%. this extends to all bonuses applied from gear effects to light arts)

this spell would remedy the lack of T2 storm spells for one, and it would also serve to make WHM BLM RDM enhancing spells to preform more effectively.
________________________________________________________________________

Minuo pretium (Blood Price)
Strategem
Dark arts
All Black magic Compatible

Next spell cast will consume the casters HP instead of MP

HP conversion rate is 2MP - 1 HP.
________________________________________________________________________

Praevenio Decessus (death prevention)
Strategem
Light arts
Healing magic Compatible

Next healing magic spell will bestow Numen upon its target, spell will not heal target.

Effect: when the target of a healing spell paired with this strategem is brought below 0 HP, this effect will heal the user for the ammount the Heal SHOULD have done:
EXAMPLE:
1) Hideka uses P.D
2) Hideka casts Cure V on tank
3) Tank is healed for 0 HP
4) Tank gains the buff of numen
5) Minutes later, the tank eats 200 more HP then he has and falls to 0 HP
6) Numen buff is removed, and the tank is healed for the ammount the origonal cure 5 healing spell should have done.

this ability will carry a internal timer for each target, making it so a target cant recieve this effect more then.... like every 5 minutes or so, and cant be paired with accession for AOE cheat death.
________________________________________________________________________

these abilities paired up with fusion magic would bring scholar even closer to having its own unique spot in a party.

[Krystal]

your spell ideas actually do sound and feel right down sch's alley! sch have always been effective in utilizing elements in different fashions a good example being their helix spells. another one being their weather spells and their ability to put double weather on themselves and others with klimaform making their and others spells more effective..in fact many of their spells are dependent on weather effects. scholar is my all time favorite job in the game...it was my first level 75 and my first level 90!

[Mezzopiano]

I think you seriously underestimate SCH's nuking power. Sure, we don't have native Magic Atk. Bonus, but +24 from subbing BLM or RDM, plus bonuses from storm spells and Ebullience are more than enough to make up for it. My SCH can outnuke my BLM on the same spell pretty easily, but then again, I don't have top-of-the-line gear for either.

The rest of these suggestions look pretty good, particularly the Modus Veritas one. That needs something to make it not useless again.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think you seriously underestimate SCH's nuking power. Sure, we don't have native Magic Atk. Bonus, but +24 from subbing BLM or RDM, plus bonuses from storm spells and Ebullience are more than enough to make up for it. My SCH can outnuke my BLM on the same spell pretty easily, but then again, I don't have top-of-the-line gear for either.

The rest of theses suggestions look pretty good, particularly the Modus Veritas one. That needs something to make it not useless again.

Yeah, 20% increase to spell DMG, 30% with the AF3 hat makes up for the less of MAB.

[Delvish]

so i find it annyoing that pretty much every thing boss wise in abyssea is IMMUNE to modus veritas, or it misses 50% of the time. so heres a list of suggesstions for sch additions and adjustments.

Modus Veritas: Reducing timer to 60 seconds, to make it more usefull versuses smaller monsters who die quicker.

Reasoning: at the current point and time we cant utilize this ability veruses the current bosses of the game, and we cannot utilize it effectively against smaller monsters due to its 20 minute recast timer.

Sublimation: Changing sublimation gear mechanics to allow then enhanced effect to be applied when the job ability is activated, and last the duration of the charge even when un-equipped.

Reasoning: while the recent tweaks to sublimation are Awesome, all of the nifty sublimation gear that is out now, has little to no efffect to the charging time due to the fact that you cant utilize the enhanced ammount more then 20% of the time in a combat situation, AND you have to set an idle macro (for those of you who dont use scripts), its a mega hassle.

Dark arts: adds natural magic attack. increasing by 1MAB every five levels from level 10, resulting in +16 Magic attack bonus.

Reasoning: without any form of natural MAB it is IMPOSSIBLE for sch to currently hold a candle to a blm. they trump us in both casting power AND speed now, putting us into the old rdm position of "Meh caster" where a BLM will ALWAYS be prefered over a SCH. even with 16 additional MAB, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for us to even compete with blm for sheer damage out put. the only thing we still trump BLM in is MP efficiency, which pales in comparison to a BLM/RDM who has pretty much -50% casting speed and +36MAB at all times. where as we have to use a job ability to reach those ammounts, severely limiting us. oh and not to mention, ONE Piece of our AF3 has mab. ONE. hell we dont even get access to the good MAB !@#$%&.. I.E: Eradico mitts, BARD can wear them SMN can wear them, but not sch. W T F

Light arts: Innate +10% cure potency
reason: SCH has a severe lack of Cure potency gear. this will also serve as a buff to RDMs who /sch.

Magic:

Cure 5.
Tier 2 Storm spells
Tier 2 Helicies

Buffing Addoloquim to 2-3 TP per tic(enhanced by gear if anything)

Fusion Magic: magic that has two elements for SC purposes, that carry additional effects.

Aduro Illustrio: Fusion elemental magic. Fire & light. Additional Effect: increases damage done by Ice and darkness for 30 seconds.

Glacialis Fons: Distortion elemental magic. Ice and water. Additional effect: Increases damage done by Wind and Fire for 30 seconds.

Ventus Reboare: Fragmentation Elemental magic. Thunder and wind. Additional effect: Increases damage done by earth and water for 30 seconds.

Terra Pullus: Gravitation elemental magic. earth and darkness. additional effect increases damage done by light and thunder for 30 seconds.

Omnino Creperum: Darkness elemental magic. Earth Darkness Ice water Elements. additional effect: increases damage dealt by all light alligned elements for 60 seconds.

Funditus Elucido: Light elemental Magic. Wind Fire Thunder Light elements. Additional effect: increases damage dealt by all darkness aligned elements for 60 seconds.

Modus adjustments are spot on, Sublimation adjustments are spot on, and new spells are spot on. The Light and Dark arts adjustments I don't feel as fully necessary (though always welcome!). I can nuke and cure as well as a base-line BLM or WHM, however the gap is increasing. SCH will soon be in dire need of balancing to put us back to at least moderate abilities between these two roles.

In regards to your fusion magic concept, I love it with the exception of the last two. A more intuitive idea would be to use the 4 primary fusions combined with SCH's immanence spell to create a Light or Darkness burst resulting in a similar effect.

I could also do with an adjustment to immanence's effect, as it takes way too long to cast a spell worthy enough to take advantage of the SC or MB effects.

[Rambus]

the double element spell line can be used with Immanence to make level 3 skillchains like light and darkness, nice ideas, nice ideas for the added effect too

[Crossarius]

Magic:

Cure 5.
Tier 2 Storm spells
Tier 2 Helicies

Buffing Addoloquim to 2-3 TP per tic(enhanced by gear if anything)

Fusion Magic: magic that has two elements for SC purposes, that carry additional effects.

Aduro Illustrio: Fusion elemental magic. Fire & light. Additional Effect: increases damage done by Ice and darkness for 30 seconds.

Glacialis Fons: Distortion elemental magic. Ice and water. Additional effect: Increases damage done by Wind and Fire for 30 seconds.

Ventus Reboare: Fragmentation Elemental magic. Thunder and wind. Additional effect: Increases damage done by earth and water for 30 seconds.

Terra Pullus: Gravitation elemental magic. earth and darkness. additional effect increases damage done by light and thunder for 30 seconds.

Omnino Creperum: Darkness elemental magic. Earth Darkness Ice water Elements. additional effect: increases damage dealt by all light alligned elements for 60 seconds.

Funditus Elucido: Light elemental Magic. Wind Fire Thunder Light elements. Additional effect: increases damage dealt by all darkness aligned elements for 60 seconds.

These spells are great! Very similar to what I had in mind too after I started playing with immanence (which I learned to love when I cleaned my club of trial and nyzul weapon for WS points)
Make them either both elements at the same time or multi-hit spells, something I always wished for in the nuking department.

I agree on everything else too. I cannot remember the last time I used modus veritas except to remind myself how it looks like.
I feel that they should expand on our ability to control enmity. Libra's range is too short and enmity+ and enmity- songs aren't enough tools imho.

Make rapture work with enhancing magic and ebullience with enfeebling magic! (though people may argue more potent enfeeblings take away from RDM T2 enfeebling spells.
More potent stoneskin (which you can then AoE), more potent adloquium, more potent regen.
Scholar is the one job that takes existent spell and make them more potent, AoE, half MP or half cast/recast or double duration.
I don't see a reason for at least rapture to work like this, after you all it is yet one more stratagem you can burn through.
Want to super buff something and make it AoE, double duration and increased potency? Ca ndo that but it will cost you three charges for one super buff. Fair enough if you ask me.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Throw in Ultima schema spell at level 99 and you've got a deal!

[Valkrist]

I have to disagree that SCH does in fact have a lot of Cure Potency gear. They have 35% at level 90, whereas at level 75, they only had 17%. Would SCH benefit from having more potency? Absolutely.

Dark Arts giving MAB is a very interesting idea. It definitely would close in the gap created by what a full BLM AF3+2 set does. At level 75, a SCH can come close to matching, if not beat, a BLM in total damage done over time. At level 90... SCH's severely behind. While it is still the second best nuker, it's nowhere close to a BLM. My 4/5 AF3+2 BLM casts Aero V for something like 2.5k without set procs. My SCH on the other hand does about 1.3k on the same monster without using Strategems. I don't mention Strategems numbers because how people play SCH varies so much that using that figure isn't something that could be universally compared to. My numbers may be wrong since I'm going by memory. The difference in damage per spell I don't think SCH can come even close to catching up to BLM at this point and this isn't even thinking about BLM set procs. It's pretty common to see a BLM suddenly nuke for 7+k damage. So more MAB through Dark Arts would be much appreciated.

[Scuro]

Modus veritas needs to be reduced in timer or ungimped in resistance, because honestly, that has been such a pain to get to stick for something that is a 10 minute recast... I still think its stupid that they made it a JA that can miss, thats like having a provoke miss.... like really SE?

This idea of Fusion magic, now that is the most original idea I've heard of lately when it comes to SCH or hell even magic in general! Although I can honestly say I doubt seeing this happen, if it were too happen, it would make SCH's ability to elemental skill chain god send, and hell even make basic damage interestin! Like in the case of Murexs that are both Air and Lightning elements, and many of the other Abyssean specific mobs (the ones that look like pokemon) which consist of more then 1 element innately. That is the only reason why I can hope and pray SE reads that suggestion and actually does it. Someone I believe brought up helixes as a means to target party members and rather then inflict damage, act as a regen, and proc a cure rather then a sudden spike of damage as helixes do. That was actually a really interesting idea, and something I wouldn't mind seeing, along with Tier 2 helixes and storms

[hideka]

thanks for all of the positive responses :D the light and dark fusion magic is just a wet dream of mine, by basically sc'ing with them, you would create cosmic elucidation, which is the SC used by tenzen, and likely can only be produced by using all SC elements in one SC, which is not possible with our current weapon skills. and yes, id totaly dig an ultima schemea, it would be freaking awesome to have some neutral elemental damage in the hands of a caster finally. as to the cure potency topic, you should include " we have 22% from the shuryas staff" which means we only really have 23% curepotency in gear outside of one overpowered TOM staff >_>!

also good point on immanence, the SC window is fairly short and almost imposible to use a T5 spell to close it w/o fast cast stratagems.

[Yukichibi]

Even SMN have 50% cure potency nowdays (even more XD) and cure IV, thanks to rapture we can still be good healers on one people only (Tank).
Immanence allowed us to keep with BLM, but Elemental Celerity put them out of our ligue again.
It's very frustrated to see a BLM without dark arts casting quicker than a SCH.
Being able to silencega, paralyga and such could be pretty cool, i know RDM will rage, but if they have the tier 2 spells, they can be better on single target, while we are better at crowd control.
Being said why giving us accession while we could have the GA spells on our list from the start.

[Reimii]

I agree with Modus Vertas topic. Very very good imo.

However I have a problem with the Light Arts suggestion. If you're a good SCH and you love the job (and all aspects of it...not just spamming dark arts) then you will at least have the Surya's Staff +1. If you have leveled WHM as well as SCH and have even more multijob cure potency gear and are primarily a mage chances are you have the Selenian Cap with 3%, Tatsumaki Sitagoromo with 5%, and possibly a Fylgja Torque(+1) with 2%(3%). If you leveled SCH before the the Abyssea craze and did Sea as an event, you'll probably have at LEAST a Korin Obi giving you a 10% boost with Aurorastorm up. ALSO if you've cleared Dynamis Xarcabard that is ANOTHER 10% from the Atma of the Rescuer which will put you at or above 50% if all conditions are met (not including Obi effects since those stack above the cap). SCH has a lot of cure potency through gear/atmas availiable. It takes the player to decide if they're going to go head over heals on their healing magic set and go that far. When if comes to the Selenian Cap and Tatsumaki Sitagoromo augments, any other augments are easily replaceable by new gear except for the cure potency augments which can't be found on any other piece (other than WHM gear) but these so imo they are the prefered augments to chose.

Now as for the OTHER suggestions...other than Cure V which is unessessary because of Rapture, I'd stamp a giant YES on them. Tier 2 weather spells I would assume grant the effect of double weather which would be no less than AMAZING. An tier 2 helixes I'd die for. Seeing my Helixes proc at 500+ damage atm is enough to have me sqealing to myself (and I don't really have pimped gear lol). It'd also be cool if the tier 2s inflicted a bad stat or something like Cryohelix II inflicts mild paralyze or something awesome like that.

The Dark Arts suggestion I agree with sort of. To be honest with atmas, ebullience, and weather procing Obis/Twilight Cape/Zodiac Ring, you can do some pretty dirty damage. And please don't feel gimp for using ebullience. Some SCHs kind of do. Just think of it as a way to take an extra step forward. SE gave us the job ability so use it!! But the fact that we CAN'T use Eradico's Mitts PISSES ME OFF. I'm stuck using Goliard's cuffs because i'm too goddamn lazy to get the +5 MAB mitts off that fly in the past. If I could just wear those oh my god...

Fusion spells look really cool. The teir II ones I believe would be enough because you can string those together to make a level 3 SC fine.

Great ideas. I hope Squeenix considers some of them. :)

[Ezikiel]

i saw somewhere that sublimation was getting changed but it never happened instead of 2hp/2mp it was like 2hp/7mp im sure i say it searching for link now


go here half way down the page
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/6035/detail.html

that was never implemented or am i wrong? i have 90 scholar

for that 2/7 ratio for 250 hp at 1000 hp i should get 1750 mp

The effectiveness of the scholar ability "Sublimation" in converting HP to MP now increases based on level.
Lv35: 2HP => 2MP
Lv45: 2HP => 3MP
Lv55: 2HP => 4MP
Lv65: 2HP => 5MP
Lv75: 2HP => 6MP
Lv85: 2HP => 7MP

[Sotek]

i saw somewhere that sublimation was getting changed but it never happened instead of 2hp/2mp it was like 2hp/7mp im sure i say it searching for link now


go here half way down the page
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/6035/detail.html

that was never implemented or am i wrong? i have 90 scholar

for that 2/7 ratio for 250 hp at 1000 hp i should get 1750 mp

The effectiveness of the scholar ability "Sublimation" in converting HP to MP now increases based on level.
Lv35: 2HP => 2MP
Lv45: 2HP => 3MP
Lv55: 2HP => 4MP
Lv65: 2HP => 5MP
Lv75: 2HP => 6MP
Lv85: 2HP => 7MP

They implemented it, you've just got the complete wrong idea about how it works.

Sublimation only heals MP equal to 25% of your HP. If one tic is converted to a greater amount of MP, that isn't making Sublimation restore a greater amount, it's increasing the rate at which is fills.

[Ezikiel]

They implemented it, you've just got the complete wrong idea about how it works.

Sublimation only heals MP equal to 25% of your HP. If one tic is converted to a greater amount of MP, that isn't making Sublimation restore a greater amount, it's increasing the rate at which is fills.

so at 1000 hp it still only gives 250 mp just fills up faster? retarded! bet MEH! ty for letting me know

[Sotek]

Having it fill up faster isn't really retarded. Roughly 250MP every minute is far more useful that 1750MP every six minutes. 1750MP is also way more than you'd ever need.

[Ezikiel]

i spam stuff so i actually need more than that lol j/k

[Pebe]

Regarding your ideas with the light and dark arts changes: They should just ninja-patch that in on the Savant's Body +2. Make the "Enhances Addendum" something more significant than enmity- plz~~~

In regards to nuking, I think our nuking ability is just fine. I can outnuke a blms blizzard V with my Blizzard IV if i use the correct abilties. And when we get fire V and Blizzard V next update, it will be devastating....

Sch is supposed to be the stratedgic mage (spelling), so they should have special abilities that make the effect the members of the party to make devastating combination attacks. Libra, Adlaoqium, and the enmity spells were a good push in the direction of a stratedgic mage, but there should be something more that makes parties say "hey we need a sch so we can do "insert cool thing here"". The idea of being able to create Cosmic Elucidation via sch, in my opinion, would greatly aid this cause. The ability to create Cosmic Elucidation via a sch ability and any two, relic, mythic, or empyrean weaponskills sounds cool too me.

Should give sch an ability that sets an enimies weakness and resistance to null. Similar to tamahawk for war but just for magic.

Should give sch a light based, or a non-elemental based magic attack (perhaps a changing elemental attack that varies depending on the storm you have up?)

[Fetus]

Would just like to bump this thread... there's some great ideas that SE should take a look at.

Some comments:

1) Changes to Light Arts and Dark Arts are unnecessary.
2) Changes to Modus Veritas and Sublimation seem sound.

Introducing Tier II -storm spells sounds great as long as they grant the double weather-effects.

"Fusion" spells seem an interesting concept. Some questions, though:

- MP cost?
- Casting time?
- Recasting time?
- Potency?

The ability to create Level 2 and Level 3 Skillcahins via Immanence sounds pretty cool. I don't see a need for something like Cosmic Elucidation, though.

I think an "Elemental Purge" is more of the purview of BLM, but it's a interesting idea, nonetheless; And out of spite, I decree it should have accuracy and a recast time equivalent to that of Modus Veritas so that BLM everywhere can experience needless agony. (I kid, I kid.)

Lastly, I keep seeing people say they want a Light-based or non-elemental magic attack and I think Pebe nailed it. BLM is going to get Meteor... SCH should get Ultima. Make it a powerful element-netural spell that changes elements based on the current weather. Make it reasonably potent, give it a sufficient MP cost, a modest casting/recasting time and call it done.

Agree? Disagree? Other ideas?

[Shinzonx]

yeah i understan the concern for those spells and all but even though sch is suppose to be RDM BLM and WHM combined useing JA's to increase its power the storms and helixs make it almost like Geomancer so like really sch doesnt have anything that outcast blm rdm whm thats why we get over looked when people looking for nukers so like Fusion Spells or something that make sch its own job like blm with ga's and AM's would be nice to see sch have its own Schema's thats as powerful as ga's and AM's

[hideka]

Would just like to bump this thread... there's some great ideas that SE should take a look at.

Some comments:

1) Changes to Light Arts and Dark Arts are unnecessary.
2) Changes to Modus Veritas and Sublimation seem sound.

Introducing Tier II -storm spells sounds great as long as they grant the double weather-effects.

"Fusion" spells seem an interesting concept. Some questions, though:

- MP cost?
- Casting time?
- Recasting time?
- Potency?

The ability to create Level 2 and Level 3 Skillcahins via Immanence sounds pretty cool. I don't see a need for something like Cosmic Elucidation, though.

I think an "Elemental Purge" is more of the purview of BLM, but it's a interesting idea, nonetheless; And out of spite, I decree it should have accuracy and a recast time equivalent to that of Modus Veritas so that BLM everywhere can experience needless agony. (I kid, I kid.)

Lastly, I keep seeing people say they want a Light-based or non-elemental magic attack and I think Pebe nailed it. BLM is going to get Meteor... SCH should get Ultima. Make it a powerful element-netural spell that changes elements based on the current weather. Make it reasonably potent, give it a sufficient MP cost, a modest casting/recasting time and call it done.

Agree? Disagree? Other ideas?


ill have to disagree that DA and LA dont need SOME form of addtion.... perhaps not the ones i listed, but possibly an alternative.

the fusion spells were supposed to be quick casting moderate damage/MP costs... so like the power of a T3~4 nuke, for slightly More MP and slightly less casting time... the reason they wouldnt be as strong as a T5 is simply because these are intended to enhance damage done by other spells and create magic bursting oppourtunities... if anything id like them to cast like a little bit slower then holy...
so it would be like:
Power: T4
MP: T5
Speed: T3

id even go so far as to give SCH the Skillchain bonus job trait, or gear with that trait.

i still think giving sch the ability to do cosmic would give us a rock solid place in the game that noone could ever touch, we would be the ULTIMATE damage enhancers for blms, or ultimate SC openers for melees.

totally agree with the ultima comment. i however would like SCH to get a significant boost to its pathetic MP pool. most blms have a 1k MP pool... my sch has like 700 >_>

[hollowsgrief]

Yeah the light arts and dark arts idea you have are never going to happen; I mean sch already has the same teir nukes as blm, why would they give them a higher MAB so they can nuke at the same level as blm??? And even whm doesn't get a native cure potency boost they only get it via gear, AND sch already has the ability of to boost their cures by 60% with the rapture ability which can be used much more often than whms' divine seal, which is a 10min recast. I'm sorry but sch was not ment to heal on the same level as whm nor nuke on the same level as blm.

[hideka]

it also wasnt meant to be useless. theres far more blms and whms in the game, thus making it so NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO BRING A SCH OVER THEM.

[Rambus]

Cosmic Elucidation is not a real SC even when used by whats his name, its just a "PWN you move" when you take too much time.



the fusion spells were supposed to be quick casting moderate damage/MP costs... so like the power of a T3~4 nuke, for slightly More MP and slightly less casting time... the reason they wouldnt be as strong as a T5 is simply because these are intended to enhance damage done by other spells and create magic bursting oppourtunities... if anything id like them to cast like a little bit slower then holy...
so it would be like:
Power: T4
MP: T5
Speed: T3


I like this

depends on what t4 for damage and t5 for mp though, those lines of spells of stone and thunder is really drastic, mabye bases around the fire IV- blizard IV range? damage wise?

[Fredjan]

I would like to see SCH get something that is like a distinction, that makes it more unique as a main. It's an excellent support job for certain jobs, but it doesn't shine as much as a main nowadays. Obviously, Abyssea is a huge influence, because SCH isn't capable of doing as many yellow !! as BLM is. Adloquium is cool I guess.

Sure, we get Tier V nukes, just like BLM, but given the current state BLM beats SCH. I have fairly top-nuking gear for both jobs and due to BLM having Blizzard V and atma that favors it, my SCH cannot top my BLM's damage. That doesn't bother me much at all, though.

What I would like to see is something that SCHs would use frequently that's unique to their job. Really, when one looks at it, it isn't much at all... Helix spells (maybe), storm spells, enmity+/- spells at 85, Adloquium at 88 (60 TP for the duration, or 120 TP with Perpetuance/135 with AF3+1 hands/150 with AF3+2 hands)... nothing that really -shines- out that would result as, "Hey, gear Scholar!" (I can tell you 95% of the time people forget I even have the job at 90). I wouldn't mind seeing something that increases the TP/tic to that. Red Mages got something to boost their Refresh, and we get something as well as WHM to boost Regen effect as well as duration. I wouldn't think getting something to boost Adloquium is unreasonable.

I can't say I've been asked to heal on Scholar often. Anytime I'm asked to heal that means I'm on White Mage. So when I'm on Scholar, it's mostly support healing and nuking. Casting storm spells / using Ebuillence makes up for our lack of MAB vs. BLM, and casting Aurorastorm helps makes up for our lack of cure potency vs. a WHM's. I rarely use the enmity spells. I'm rarely with a tank, and anytime I nuke that means I'm getting hate anyway, enmity- spell on or not.

Since we got a Stratagem that makes a spell open or close a skillchain, I could forsee them adding spells with multiple elements (maybe). That's actually an interesting idea that I like, but as others have said, it's a question of how fast the spells would be, damage, and MP cost. T2 storm spells and T2 helix would be neat as well. However, it's only 9 levels, it's a matter of seeing what SE has in mind that isn't obvious already, given the rate of spells we have gained since 75 cap... all under Addendum: Black of course, only exceptions being the white magic spells we've obtained: Adloquium, Enmity spells, and Regen III.

What we have gotten just for nukes:
Stone V - SCH79
Water V - SCH83
Aero V - SCH87

What we can likely expect just from that:
Fire V - SCH91
Blizzard V - SCH95
Thunder V - SCH99

But it's obvious to me Scholar needs more than that, something other jobs won't have. If they do introduce merits for lv99, that'll be a given that we'll get some unique stuff, it's just a matter of what that'd be and how it'd influence the playerbase to use/play the job.

[Pebe]

I still personally think sch is fine on the nuking spectrum. The amount we can boost our spells with our abilities and our full af3+2 is redonculous (yes not a word i know). Sure, it may take a few extra seconds to set it up but its extremely powerful.
Ex.

-Alacrity Klimaform on most of the time with af3+2 feet. With correct storm thats 20% damage boost to the same elemental magic as storm.
-Storm spells themself with obi and twilight cape +15% damage.
-Ebullience with af3+2 head gives 30% damage boost. (I tried to remember these numbers of the top of my head, may be off slightly).

See already we can increase the damage of our nukes by 65% which blm cannot do unless they have a sch giving them storms, making the difference then 50%. It really is quite devastating. When I can hit 5.5k Blizzard IVs(This was without drink and only using aquillo's staff not the magian staff, but it was with day and zodiac ring, so another 15% boost), one can only imagine how strong Blizzard V will be. In my opinion, nuking wise, sch just needs a tier of elemental celerity because I usually don't waste stratedgems on alacrity unless making solo skillchains or using klimaform. Oh and more unique sch only spells. Just remember we may nuke close to blm, but sch is never suppose to pass blm in terms of magical DD. Unless that blm is extremely undergeared (like mine lol), then there is no excuse.

[Pebe]

Oh, new idea. They should make the enhances addendum on sch af3+2 body like enmity douse. Everytime you switch from addendum black to addendum white or vice versa, it acts as an enmity douse. That would be fair because it would take two stratedgems. Lights arts >> white then back to dark arts >> black.

[AJ_Anyia]

These are very innovative ideas and really do deserve a hard look at. I'm hoping that SCH gets the boost that I hope it does with this update.

[hideka]

i feel that SCH still, even with the suggestions i made for fusion magic, would still need even more to bring it into its own unique role, cause ATM we quite honestly SUCK in the greater scheme of things. id like to see completely unique ideas for spells... some that come to mind:

________________________________________________________________________
Venificus Contego: (Magicians Shield)
White magic
Light arts: Enhanced by enhancing magic & MND
Dark arts: Enhanced by elemental magic & INT
Not restricted to arts
Accession Compatible
Perpetuance Compatible
Duration: 5 Minutes
Recast: 5 Minutes
MP: 150

Provides a Shield against magic. increased magic defense bonus VS spells matching targets current weather. augments Addenendum white & black.

Addenendum White additional effect: When shield is dispelled via damage, returns 50% of damage absorbed to caster & 25% to Affected target.
Addenendum black additional effect: when dispelled by damage, caster gains Magic attack equivalent to 5% of total damage absorbed towards next offensive spell cast.

Logic: this would give the SCH a spell that carries both defensive, offensive, and support capabilities when used in various situations. it would ideally max at 500 damage absorbed, thus returning a max of 250 MP on removal from current target, or 25 MAB & conserve MP for the next spell cast by the scholar based on the arts the spell was cast in

imo this spell would fit sch's tactical role PERFECTLY, the MP ammount might seem like alot upon return, but keep in mind its got a 5 minute recast on it, and the target has to take specifically magical damage for it to be activated.


________________________________________________________________________
Magus Validus (magic might)
White magic & Black magic aligned (neutral)
Light arts: Enhanced by Enhancing magic
Dark arts: Enhanced by Enhancing magic
Not restricted to arts
compatible with all strategems.
Duration: 5 Minutes
Recast: 10 seconds
MP: 30

Increases Enhancing magic effects based off of current arts.

Light arts: enhances all white magic aligned enhancing magics effects by +1 on current target. Provides caster a small boost to light arts bonuses based on number of targets effected by spell (+2% to each light arts effect per target effected, caps at +10%. this extends to all bonuses applied from gear effects to light arts)

dark arts: enhances all dark magic aligned enhancing magics effects by +1 on current target. Provides caster a small boost to dark arts bonuses based on number of targets effected by spell (+2% to each dark arts effect per target effected, caps at +10%. this extends to all bonuses applied from gear effects to light arts)

this spell would remedy the lack of T2 storm spells for one, and it would also serve to make WHM BLM RDM enhancing spells to preform more effectively.
________________________________________________________________________

Minuo pretium (Blood Price)
Strategem
Dark arts
All Black magic Compatible

Next spell cast will consume the casters HP instead of MP

HP conversion rate is 2MP - 1 HP.
________________________________________________________________________

Praevenio Decessus (death prevention)
Strategem
Light arts
Healing magic Compatible

Next healing magic spell will bestow Numen upon its target, spell will not heal target.

Effect: when the target of a healing spell paired with this strategem is brought below 0 HP, this effect will heal the user for the ammount the Heal SHOULD have done:
EXAMPLE:
1) Hideka uses P.D
2) Hideka casts Cure V on tank
3) Tank is healed for 0 HP
4) Tank gains the buff of numen
5) Minutes later, the tank eats 200 more HP then he has and falls to 0 HP
6) Numen buff is removed, and the tank is healed for the ammount the origonal cure 5 healing spell should have done.

this ability will carry a internal timer for each target, making it so a target cant recieve this effect more then.... like every 5 minutes or so, and cant be paired with accession for AOE cheat death.
________________________________________________________________________

these abilities paired up with fusion magic would bring scholar even closer to having its own unique spot in a party.

[Fetus]

I would like to see SCH get something that is like a distinction, that makes it more unique as a main. It's an excellent support job for certain jobs, but it doesn't shine as much as a main nowadays. Obviously, Abyssea is a huge influence, because SCH isn't capable of doing as many yellow !! as BLM is. Adloquium is cool I guess.

Sure, we get Tier V nukes, just like BLM, but given the current state BLM beats SCH. I have fairly top-nuking gear for both jobs and due to BLM having Blizzard V and atma that favors it, my SCH cannot top my BLM's damage. That doesn't bother me much at all, though.

Since we got a Stratagem that makes a spell open or close a skillchain, I could forsee them adding spells with multiple elements (maybe). That's actually an interesting idea that I like, but as others have said, it's a question of how fast the spells would be, damage, and MP cost. T2 storm spells and T2 helix would be neat as well. However, it's only 9 levels, it's a matter of seeing what SE has in mind that isn't obvious already, given the rate of spells we have gained since 75 cap... all under Addendum: Black of course, only exceptions being the white magic spells we've obtained: Adloquium, Enmity spells, and Regen III.

What we have gotten just for nukes:
Stone V - SCH79
Water V - SCH83
Aero V - SCH87

What we can likely expect just from that:
Fire V - SCH91
Blizzard V - SCH95
Thunder V - SCH99

But it's obvious to me Scholar needs more than that, something other jobs won't have. If they do introduce merits for lv99, that'll be a given that we'll get some unique stuff, it's just a matter of what that'd be and how it'd influence the playerbase to use/play the job.

This (I didn't quote the whole post, just parts I thought were especially telling). Thanks for reminding me that we have no equipment to enhance Adloquium. Why the Savant's Bonnet +1/+2 enhances Regen instead is beyond me. Maybe if we all gripe about it enough, they'll change it? As is, the potency of Adloquium is so weak that I don't even bother using it inside of Abyssea. Outside of Abyssea, that changes a bit, but not by much.

Speaking of... I think we need to eliminate Abyssea from this conversation indefinitely. Inside of Abyssea, Monk is the ultimate tank, mages never run out of MP, every melee job has capped critical hit rate and critical hit damage and Ninja can nuke targets for thousands of damage per :Ni nuke. Outside of Abyssea, Monk is about as mortal as it was at 75, mages have a finite amount of MP (without proper party support), melee jobs cry because they don't deal thousands of damage per WS and elemental ninjutsu still sucks against almost everything. My point is everyone has Abyssea on the brain and Abyssea skews how everything works outside of Abyssea. 99% of the game is not in Abyssea. We need to stop using Abyssea as a point of relativity when comparing Y to Z.

@Pebe - Unless I miscounted, SCH can achieve +68% damage on any Elemental Magic spell. This is before Elemental Affinity, Magic Attack Bonus, INT formulas or anything else is included. Like Fredjan and you have said and as Hideka as taken steps to illustrate, SCH needs something that is SCH only. It's a great support job, no doubt about it, but it doesn't feel unique nor finished yet.

@Hideka - I'm a huge fan of your "Fusion Magic" ideas. Keep working on them. Flesh them out even more. Make them definitively "Scholar". SE needs to see them and read this thread, honestly. That being said, I'm not a fan of your latest ideas and I mean no disrespect in saying so. They seem overly complex. Not saying that I can't appreciate complexity, but it just seems needless. However, your Minuo Pretium made some lightbulbs flash in my head. I'm working on something and I'll try to get it posted later. I think it could be another step towards making SCH really unique.

[Rambus]

outside abyssea your taking about a level 90 tanking on 75 content, any DD can tank.

I laughed in one dyna we did when mnk mobs would 100-fist to only have a wiff fest on our monk tank.

MNKs, SAM, DRK all had thier lime light in taking at 75, hell even rdm and brd did too.

one should state what x is like inside abyssea and what it is like outside abyssea, I hate how people talk about stuff and just assume they only mean abyssea.

just because in abyssea your in god mode does not prevent it from being analyzed.

[Pebe]

First off, hideka I think you're ideas are very creative and brilliant. I, for one, am a fan of the complexity. I mean come on we're scholars. We strut through jeuno holding giant books, wearing graduation caps, and using monicles! We should be doing some serious mathematical calculations for everything thing we do lol. Joking aside, I enjoy complexity. It makes the job more engaging then just push 1 button to nuke. We actually need to think, and time our abilities correctly for the maximum efficiency. Although, adding all these abilities to my macroes is going to suck..... I already use 6 out of the 10 sets in 1 macro book lol. Would be more if i bother macroing all the spells I should.

[hideka]

yea theyre a bit complex to read and comprehend... they could honestly be broken down into like 5 individual spells lol, but then people would be all like "ZOMG SCH DOSENT NEED ALLS OF THATS!!!"

pravieno is pretty much a pseudo gimp migiwari/oh shit tool :P

Magus Validus would play in line with SCH's abilities. i just felt that "hey this buff enhances all buffs that match your current art for whoever you cast it on" was too simplistic when i was thinking about it, but now that i look back, it definately does WAY too much lol, and would probably be better off just increasing all enhancements that match your current art.

i kinda wana stand behind my concept for Venificus Contego, as ive really wanted to see a conditional shield in this game. most MMO's have like... magic ward spells, or some way to effectively negate an enemies attack and turn it into mana, which is a totaly cool idea in my head >_> im also a HUGE fan of spells that change their nature/mechanic based on your current needs. not to mention i love things having duality

[Pebe]

Well technically there is a magic shield in this game, rampart. It just does convert damage to mana lol.

Edit: doesn't

[Kasandaro]

Minuo pretium (Blood Price)
Strategem


Might be overpowered (would it be an unaligned strat or one art specific?), but there's precedent for SCH already using their HP as MP in a bizarre way. I like.


Praevenio Decessus (death prevention)
Strategem
Light arts


Oh. God. Yes. I've always been a fan of conditional buffs and hanging healing effects ever since playing a Pro-Monk in Guild Wars - XI healing ever since has felt so brute-force. And since they've established this type of death-conditional effect - Migawari, Earthen Armor, Scherzo - one more job having a variant of it isn't horrible. And I agree, in that it shouldn't stack - I might also ask that it blocks and is blocked by Solace's Cureskin, just to keep a SCH and a WHM from complete mp-bombing a tank.

Maybe a Dark Arts-equivalent that hangs an AoE retributive damage on a target PC? Dunno.

---


Speaking of... I think we need to eliminate Abyssea from this conversation indefinitely.

I think I agree more with Rambus' response* that we need to consider both inside and outside abyssea slightly separately, but I do agree with what you're saying here, in that we do not know what content post-90 is going to be (please, for the love of Promathia, no more abyssea).

In that vein, I'm wondering why so many of the suggestions (not here, but elsewhere) duplicate stuff we get from our subjobs. Fact of the matter - by endgame, we're going to have a subjob, and save for a very few situations, it's going to be one of three: WHM, BLM, or RDM. Not just because of what they grant, but because very little else makes sense for what a SCH does. So why duplicate into SCH stuff we'd be getting anyway from the subjob, whether it be enfeebles, MAB, or whatnot?


*Why is the forum telling me I'm quoting from "posts that are not part of this thread"? And not letting me quote Rambus' at all?

[hideka]

Well technically there is a magic shield in this game, rampart. It just does convert damage to mana lol.

lol but rampart sucks!

@ kasandro :
minuo pretium was dark arts, the light arts counterpart was Pravenio decessus.
the issue with making P.D. get overwritten by cureskin, is that the effect is limited by a 45 second timer naturally, so if someone went to heal the guy you just gave a death ward to, and wiped it, it would be a total waste of a strategem and MP. I also said that there would be an internal cool down on the effect per target. gonna refrence a wow mechanic really quick here, so apologies in advance:

Lay on hands: Heals the target for an ammount equal to the paladins HP pool. inflicts the target with forbearance
Forbearance: target can not be affected by lay on hands, hand of protection, divine shield, divine protection for 2 minutes"

so if i death warded the tank, and it got used up before its internal timer was up, any future death wards would have no effect. id go so far as to put it on a 5 minute duration with a 3 minute internal cool down (for the buff, not the stratagem)
Awnser to your * question, he probably edited his post when you quoted him, and saved it before you finished your post. that would prevent you from quoting him.

as to which sj sch will use: RDM is the superior choice by far. now allow us to use misery/solace, and manawall (drop it to level 50), and MABEY youd see WHM and blm as useable choices, but other then that, RDM all the way lol.

[Rambus]

Minuo pretium (Blood Price)
Strategem


Might be overpowered (would it be an unaligned strat or one art specific?), but there's precedent for SCH already using their HP as MP in a bizarre way. I like.


Praevenio Decessus (death prevention)
Strategem
Light arts


Oh. God. Yes. I've always been a fan of conditional buffs and hanging healing effects ever since playing a Pro-Monk in Guild Wars - XI healing ever since has felt so brute-force. And since they've established this type of death-conditional effect - Migawari, Earthen Armor, Scherzo - one more job having a variant of it isn't horrible. And I agree, in that it shouldn't stack - I might also ask that it blocks and is blocked by Solace's Cureskin, just to keep a SCH and a WHM from complete mp-bombing a tank.

Maybe a Dark Arts-equivalent that hangs an AoE retributive damage on a target PC? Dunno.

---




Speaking of... I think we need to eliminate Abyssea from this conversation indefinitely.


outside abyssea your taking about a level 90 tanking on 75 content, any DD can tank.

I laughed in one dyna we did when mnk mobs would 100-fist to only have a wiff fest on our monk tank.

MNKs, SAM, DRK all had thier lime light in taking at 75, hell even rdm and brd did too.

one should state what x is like inside abyssea and what it is like outside abyssea, I hate how people talk about stuff and just assume they only mean abyssea.

just because in abyssea your in god mode does not prevent it from being analyzed.


I think I agree more with Rambus' response* that we need to consider both inside and outside abyssea slightly separately, but I do agree with what you're saying here, in that we do not know what content post-90 is going to be (please, for the love of Promathia, no more abyssea).

In that vein, I'm wondering why so many of the suggestions (not here, but elsewhere) duplicate stuff we get from our subjobs. Fact of the matter - by endgame, we're going to have a subjob, and save for a very few situations, it's going to be one of three: WHM, BLM, or RDM. Not just because of what they grant, but because very little else makes sense for what a SCH does. So why duplicate into SCH stuff we'd be getting anyway from the subjob, whether it be enfeebles, MAB, or whatnot?


*Why is the forum telling me I'm quoting from "posts that are not part of this thread"? And not letting me quote Rambus' at all?

No idea, maybe I am special, i can quote myself across threads and post them.
*btw it was really hard to quote your post exactly, then adding me in it lol.

maybe you had a number wrong and gave an error

[Fetus]

Here's my idea: Introduce the glory of the Blood-seed Grimoire ala "Crimson Arts".

I've also designed this list of suggested ideas from the users of this forum. I'm not taking credit for almost any of them. Some of them are slightly altered. A lot of users have put on their mortarboards and come up with some really genius ideas. If anything should be changed, let me know and I'll edit.

Suggested Scholar Updates

I.) Changes to existing job abilities:

Modus Veritas
-Recasting time should be reduced from 10 minutes to 1 minute.

Sublimation
-Conversion rate of HP to MP should no longer fluctuate after activating Sublimation.

Addendum: Black
-Scholar should no longer need to be under the effect of Addendum: Black to gain access to the following spells:

- Stone IV
- Water IV
- Aero IV
- Fire IV
- Blizzard IV
- Thunder IV

II.) Introduction of new job abilities:

Crimson Arts

Obtained: Scholar @ Level 91
Cast Time: Instant
Recast Time: 1:00 (-00:02 by each Merit Points upgrade)
Duration: 2:00:00

-Optimizes certain aspects of both black magic and white magic:

-Elemental, dark, enhancing, enfeebling and healing magic is optimized.

*Crimson Arts bestows the same 10% MP Cost Reduction/Casting Time/Recasting Time benefits as Light Arts and Dark Arts does.

While under the effect of Crimson Arts, a Scholar should gain access to the following stratagems:

-Diminution (an augmented Penury/Parsimony): Reduced the MP cost of your next dark, elemental, enfeebling, enhancing or healing magic spell by 75%. Consumes 5% of your HP.

-Legerity (an augmented Celerity/Alacrity): Reduces the casting time and recasting time of your next dark, elemental, enfeebling, enhancing or healing magic spell by 75%. Consumes 5% of your HP.

-Revelation (an augmented Accession/Manifestation): Your next dark, elemental, enfeebling, enhancing or healing magic spell will become AoE. Triples the MP Cost, Casting Time and Recasting Time. Consumes 5% of your HP.

-Profundity (an augmented Rapture/Ebullience): Your next applicable black magic spell will gain an increased potency of +30%. Your next applicable white magic spell will gain an increased potency of +60%. Consumes 5% of your HP.

-Convalesce (an augmented Perpetuance/Immanence): Your next enhancing magic spell will have its duration increased by 3x. Your next elemental magic spell will generate enhanced damage on the skillchain it produces by +30%.

*Stratagems obtained via merit points will be unusable while under the effect of Crimson Arts.

*Addendum: Black and Addendum: White will be unusable while under the effect of Crimson Arts.

Certain new spells will only be available for use while under the effect of Crimson Arts.

III.) New spell acquisition and spell-related changes:

White Magic:

- Cure V (Addendum: White)
- Sandstorm II
- Rainstorm II
- Windstorm II
- Firestorm II
- Hailstorm II
- Thunderstorm II
- Animus Rasa

The level requirement to learn “Adloquium” should be reduced from Level 88 to Level 85.

"Klimaform" should be changed from a black magic Dark Magic spell to a black magic Enhancing Magic Spell.

*Animus Rasa will cause the selected target to gain no enmity from any action for 30 seconds.

MP Cost: 63 MP
Spell Element: Light
Magic Skill: Enhancing Magic
Casting Time: 5 seconds
Recast Time: 3:00
Spell Duration: 30 seconds

*Tier II -storm spells will cause the selected target to gain the effect of “double” weather.

Black Magic:

- Fire V (Addendum: Black)
- Blizzard V (Addendum: Black)
- Thunder V (Addendum: Black)
- Terra Pullus (Crimson Arts) [Earth/Dark]
- Glacialis Fons (Crimson Arts) [Ice/Water]
- Ventus Reboare (Crimson Arts) [Wind/Thunder]
- Aduro Illustrio (Crimson Arts) [Fire/Light]
- Funditus Elucido (Crimson Arts) [Light/Thunder/Fire/Wind]
- Omnino Creperum (Crimson Arts) [Dark/Ice/Water/Earth]


*The Terra Pullus, Glacialis Fons, Ventus Reboare and Aduro Illustrio spells possess the innate qualities that allow them to be used to form Level 2 Skillchains when used in conjunction with Convalesce.

*The Funditus Elucido and Omnino Creperum spells possess the innate qualities that allow them to be used to form Level 3 Skillchains when used in conjunction with Convalesce.

IV.) Item-related:

Savant’s Bonnet +2
-This item should be changed to: Enhances “Adloquium” effect instead of Enhances “Regen” effect.

*Edit 1: Credit to Hideka, Fredjan, Rambus, Jomen, Pebe and whoever else I missed.

[Sotek]

I don't like some of those abilities, too similar to some Thief abilities and one is clearly Enmity Douse 2.0.

I've mentioned such an idea before, but I didn't really give it much thought until (I think) Rambus likened Scholar to Corsair. Basically, give Scholar some buffs that are based off enmity.
If Corsair has a buff that gives you Refresh, the best when it rolls a 5 (or 11), think of something similar for Scholar that gives the best bonus when the targets enmity level is at 50% according to Libra.
The idea clearly needs fleshing out, but it's the only real way I can see Scholar working with its Enmity roll. I don't even think it should be given any ability to control enmity outside maybe a "Enmity stays as it is for x amount of time", I'd much rather see Scholar have to tell a Thief to take some of a Monks enmity so the Monk can deal better damage, it seems far more like the roll of a General that I think Scholar is meant to fill. Other jobs would need more ways to control enmity in that case. Dragoon and Black Mage already have enmity wipes I guess (I want their buff to require 50% enmity just to trollface.jpg).

[hideka]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's

big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

[Rambus]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's
big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

the bold, Why?

I do like the idea of fusion magic so we can make level 2's or level 3s. Fusion magic would also allow us to SC with higher powered ws like emp ws have no level 1 property.

[Fetus]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's

big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

You're really gonna' have to expand on why you're saying no to the introduction of Crimson Arts. You say that it turns SCH into RDM. You seem to forget that, currently, Dark Arts turns us into BLM and White Arts turns us in into WHM. Even you, in your very first post, suggested giving Dark Arts a latent Magic Attack Bonus and giving Light Arts a latent Cure Potency enhancement, thus turning SCH into BLM and WHM even more. Isn't the point of all of our wrangling to turn Scholar into the unique job it should be?

The Crimson Grimoire is a important part of the Scholar story. It's high-time that they incorporate it into the game. I expected more constructive criticism from you, Hideka.

[Pebe]

Crimson Grimoire, the end all, be all grimoire, hmmm. I like it however I think it is overpowered. Only penalizing dark and divine magic? Sch only gets like what 3 dark magic spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio(and bio II obviously)) with rdm sub, and 0 divine spells worth mentioning. Maybe if they gave sch some strong divine magic that loosing access too hurt a bit but meh. Only sad part would be the recast on aspir. Maybe also include something like: You loose 5 hp/tick for every 3 seconds you are in the Crimson Grimoire. This stacks with sublimations -hp/tick. Maybe even increase this value to 10 or 20. Which means we'd have to keep constant regen II on ourselves and have to balance hp and mp. It should also be allowed that you can die from the -hp/tick. If you are not paying attention, or get hit by an AoE that brings your hp down too low, you're dead meat!

-I liked the Auminous Rasa (or however you spell it idea) that gives 0 enmity for 30 seconds. Its like enmity douse in a different way. BUT! There recast timer has to be HUGE! Considering you can probably accession that spell. That would allow an entire blm party to go crazy. Considering they can get nukes off at 40% I wouldnt be surpirsed if each blm could get off 5 nukes under these 30 seconds. I mean it sounds cool and very useful, but the content that this will be used against has to be extremely hard. As in, if you pull hate, you just wiped the entire mage line instantly. Which sounds fun to me!

[Fetus]

Crimson Grimoire, the end all, be all grimoire, hmmm. I like it however I think it is overpowered. Only penalizing dark and divine magic? Sch only gets like what 3 dark magic spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio(and bio II obviously)) with rdm sub, and 0 divine spells worth mentioning. Maybe if they gave sch some strong divine magic that loosing access too hurt a bit but meh. Only sad part would be the recast on aspir. Maybe also include something like: You loose 5 hp/tick for every 3 seconds you are in the Crimson Grimoire. This stacks with sublimations -hp/tick. Maybe even increase this value to 10 or 20. Which means we'd have to keep constant regen II on ourselves and have to balance hp and mp. It should also be allowed that you can die from the -hp/tick. If you are not paying attention, or get hit by an AoE that brings your hp down too low, you're dead meat!

-I liked the Auminous Rasa (or however you spell it idea) that gives 0 enmity for 30 seconds. Its like enmity douse in a different way. BUT! There recast timer has to be HUGE! Considering you can probably accession that spell. That would allow an entire blm party to go crazy. Considering they can get nukes off at 40% I wouldnt be surpirsed if each blm could get off 5 nukes under these 30 seconds. I mean it sounds cool and very useful, but the content that this will be used against has to be extremely hard. As in, if you pull hate, you just wiped the entire mage line instantly. Which sounds fun to me!

Remember that Enmity Douse only affects the BLM using it. It's just another tool from SE to allow BLM to nuke without any caution involved, which is exactly what they said they were going to do. Under the effect of Animus Rasa, the target would have no enmity growth for 30 seconds. After the effect wears off, it's back to business as usual. Please note that I'm not suggesting that it also erases your enmity. So it's not quite Enmity Douse. An easy fix to your concern would be to prevent it from working in conjunction with Accession (before anyone says anything, remember that Haste doesn't stack, either) and giving it a recast time akin to Klimaform, so 3:00.

I do like the idea of the Crimson Grimoire subtly sapping your HP, but that's what I intended for the Crimson Arts stratagems to do. Check out the ideas for the new stratagems that I did come up with. Speaking of, if anyone has some ideas for the other stratagems, speak up. The theme is expending your own HP to enhance the effect of the stratagem you want to use next.

[Rambus]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and????

[Fetus]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and????

I'll try to incorporate your ideas. Check my post in a little bit and see if I got close to what you were thinking.

[Delvish]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and???? I believe Empy head also has some Enhancing skill in it as well.

[Rambus]

it does im talking about light arts enhacning skill vs black arts, and I explained what that is.

you can get more gear then head, i have 2 macro buttons for enchacing gear now

[hideka]

You're really gonna' have to expand on why you're saying no to the introduction of Crimson Arts. You say that it turns SCH into RDM. You seem to forget that, currently, Dark Arts turns us into BLM and White Arts turns us in into WHM. Even you, in your very first post, suggested giving Dark Arts a latent Magic Attack Bonus and giving Light Arts a latent Cure Potency enhancement, thus turning SCH into BLM and WHM even more. Isn't the point of all of our wrangling to turn Scholar into the unique job it should be?

The Crimson Grimoire is a important part of the Scholar story. It's high-time that they incorporate it into the game. I expected more constructive criticism from you, Hideka.

that was my bad, i had all of 5 minutes to type out that post before i left for work. normally i do go off on huge trists as to why stuff like this is a bad or good idea.

let me be a little more specific here:
The blood seed grimorie: while it is cool in its concept, and would play into the SCH plot line, it would however bring scholar FAR too close to the Redmage Cast set, the diffrences between the two jobs would be far too slim, and wouldnt bring enough to the table for SCH to really merit having the ability.

as it stands now switching between the arts is extremely painless with 45 second strategems; were this post made...... back in 75 cap days it would have been PERFECT, however now that we are nearing 99 cap, other jobs (namingly WHM BLM) have surpassed us in our individual fields, and RDM's have surpassed everyone in terms of being a hybrid, i feel it is a bad move for SCH to take ANY steps towards becoming more like another class. at this point we need things that will bring us further into our own individual role that will help boost us further along and make us more desireable in a party.

Unfortunately with the crimson grimorie idea, we really are not gaining anything we already did not have, and we are being moved into a nearly IDENTICAL spell list to that of a redmage, thus making us less unique. the point of me suggesting native cure potency and magic attack bonus on our arts was to help compensate for the lack of gear on those fields, as well as to boost those fields for players who sub scholar (not nearly enough do, as rdm is pretty much the ultimate magical SJ for the time being).

animus rasa would be unrealistic due to the fact that it would either have a horribly high recast, making it into a "every once in a while spell", or have a short recast/duration causing us to have to spam the crap out of it thus turning us into good old 75 cap redmages who pretty much only spam 1-3 spells untill our brains melt.

fusion spells would consist of 2 elements for 1 cast, allowing you to place 3-4 elements into a SC using 2 spells resulting in a T2-T3 SC, a T3 SC is only possible when 2 forces contribute all 4 aligned elements into a SC AKA fire light wind thunder = light. so fusion > Fragmentation = Light.

as for incorporating the crimson grimorie into the game Try this on for size:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Hideka/crimsongrimorie-1.jpg
(gogo crappy MS paint demo!)

the essential logic behind this is:
you can select a light based grimorie and a dark based grimorie, and then incorporate diffrent schemia into your grimories to enhance your own HP, MP, Elemental affinity, Spell Selection, and stats.

each grimorie would have its own individual effects, the base grimories having the same effect as our current light arts and dark arts bonuses

Example:
Dark grimorie: -10% Mp costs -10% casting time/ recasting time +20% MP for white magic, +20% casting time for white magic Increases Skill Cap to B

Explanation: in this example the dark grimorie is the base dark arts grimorie.

Example 2:
Shadow Grimorie: -25% black magic MP costs Increases Dark Magic potency. Increases White Magic MP, casting and Recasting Costs by 50%, decreases potency of healing magic. Increases Skill Cap to B


there would be several variations of each grimorie, each causing dark arts and light arts to be altered in various ways, all in line with the previous examples.

Spells from WHM BLM & RDM specific trees will be added in as equippable Schemia. by equipping these spells, you are able to access them under VERRY specific conditions:

1). your level is High enough to access this Spell.
2). You have enough MP to cast the spell
3). the spell will consume 1 stratagem, but at only half the recast time ( 60 second strat recast > 30 second strat recast)
4). the bonuses from your current art do not apply to this spell (aside from skill)
5). must be under matching art.

each schemia carries a multitude of diffrent effects which are listed on the Description of the schemia.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Hideka/flareSchemia.png

keep in mind that these values are purely for example, and would be something to toy arround with with balance.

essentially all spells for white and black magic (excluding Ja tier, and top tier cure spells) would be avalible in schemia form. if you know the spell already from another job you can have the schemia NPC automatically insert it for you, and if you dont have the spell, you can trade a scroll for the spell to the schemia NPC and have it converted into a schemia and inserted.



if you take note in the grimorie picture, i have several things that might not make sense at first glance.

1). The bottom elemental circles are essentialy your current affinity for elements based off of currently equipped schemias. the affinity granted by this is diffrent then the affinity granted by the elemental staves. the affinity increases the base damage for any matching spells by that ammount, and reduces any incoming damage of the matching element by that ammount.

2). Light arts +25 / Dark arts + 30. these effects are granted by certian schemias when equipped. they raise the skill granted by Light arts and dark arts by the respective ammounts

3) stat + 0 / 0: the grimories and schemias will occasionally increase certian stats like HP, MP, str & INT. the first number represents your bonus under light arts, the second number represents your bonus under dark arts.


now i know that this pretty much sounds OP: keep in mind, at max SCH can add in 12 spells to their list. MAX. and they have SEVERELY limiting penalties for casting them. theyd also have to choose spells over direct arts boosting schemias or stratagem enhancing schemias.

also this whole idea was to just expand on your crimson grimorie idea :p,

while this concept would make sch so we could fill a WHM or BLMs spot would be awesome and take SCH to a whole new level of complexity and planning, we would still just be cookie cuttering WHM and blm which isnt what id like to see from SCH. so id have to say i still stand firm by my previous suggestions, however.... if the two were to some how accidentialy have sex... and produce a totally awesome baby that combined both ideas into one awesome job... then i wouldnt complain in the slightest.

[hideka]

oh, apologies if the gigantic brick wall-o-text hurt anyones head. i tend to make big posts...

[Kasandaro]

@ kasandro :
minuo pretium was dark arts, the light arts counterpart was Pravenio decessus.
the issue with making P.D. get overwritten by cureskin, is that the effect is limited by a 45 second timer naturally, so if someone went to heal the guy you just gave a death ward to, and wiped it, it would be a total waste of a strategem and MP. I also said that there would be an internal cool down on the effect per target. gonna refrence a wow mechanic really quick here, so apologies in advance:

Fair. I'm just thinking there shouldn't be a situation where a target has both cureskin and pravenius, for balance issues - maybe stack/block them the way Refresh/Sublimation mess with each other? (Course, that means mucking about around Stoneskin itself, so I dunno.)

(I've been swiping healing mechanics I want to see from GW; you're allowed to quote WoW at me. ^^)


as to which sj sch will use: RDM is the superior choice by far. now allow us to use misery/solace, and manawall (drop it to level 50), and MABEY youd see WHM and blm as useable choices, but other then that, RDM all the way lol.

Mana Wall at 49* (50 would just taunt us). And I think one of WHM's biggest weapons in their arsenal is Solace's cureskin: being able to drop 1K+ cures, with 250+ stoneskins, every six seconds really is huge for healing. I really don't want that subbable.

My point was, as /RDM is the de facto choice, why is it an issue (not raised by you) that SCH does not get the basic enfeebles natively. I mean, yes, it'd be nice occasionally to sub something to use our epic club or staff (or dagger! Blau Dolch ftw!) skills, but really.



{different reply, cutting the "gigantic brick wall-o-text" for length}
as for incorporating the crimson grimorie into the game Try this on for size:


So some weird hybrid of BLU spells and Automaton traits? Would need hella balancing to pull off, but it would certainly be interesting. Would have to have a very bizarre set of schema to not tap dance all over the other casters' toes.

[Shinzonx]

Speaking of level 99 merits it was menchend during the festaval that they was going to add merits for level 99 after all the new job adjustments aka level ups less they just toss in some low level stuff that should of already been in the game but still sch needs something that makes it its own job to where people wants it in there party now the level caps are up people can sub sch and thats the end of the JA uses rdm can sub sch and still do the same with ligh arts make rdm buffs more powerfull blm can sub sch if they want to most likely some of them still usein /rdm can get a power boost from dark arts abilities but people probably make you heal if u /sch on any job any how so like come on give a few ending spells that make people want to invite a sch for both light and dark maybe give sch Curaja and Ultima or Mighty Guard for buffs or somethin

[hideka]

oh you would pretty much get access to every blm and whm spell except for a few choice spells. you would be limited to 12 of those spells tops, and honestly 9/10 the schemia that come out are going to be weaker then your current spell. also there was gonna be schemia specifically designed to boost diffrent spells, and stratagems, as well as statuses. so the sch more then likely would be setting proc spells in their schemia.

you would have schemia to add in MAB, MACC, elemental affinity, cure potency, enmity, conserve mp, fast cast, hell pretty much every single stat in the game. the way it would work is: Base stat enhancers (non spell or stratagem enhancement schemia) would all be accessible at level 1, and would scale up in power for each level, thus allowing them to be used in supportjobs causing you to get a MASSIVE boost to whm and blm. JA enhancers would be avalible at the level they are learned. specific spell enhancers will be rooted in one elemental tree like this for example:

Blaze Schemia:
SCH level 30
Fire affinity +1~100
STR+1-10

the blaze schemia would give 1-100 fire affinity (not like the staff affinity, read prior post) based off of your main jobs level. so a blm could sub SCH, and get the full +100 affinity at level 99.

all other spells that arent native to SCH will be learned at the origonal jobs level +10. merit spells and top tier magic is excluded from this list.

[Fetus]

The blood seed grimorie: while it is cool in its concept, and would play into the SCH plot line, it would however bring scholar FAR too close to the Redmage Cast set, the diffrences between the two jobs would be far too slim, and wouldnt bring enough to the table for SCH to really merit having the ability.

The differences between BLM/RDM/WHM/SCH are already incredibly subtle and anything short of a game-changing overhaul wouldn't "fix" that. The differences between any of these four jobs is a handful of spells and a couple job abilities. My point is, Crimson Arts doesn't make SCH any more like a RDM than Dark Arts already makes SCH like a BLM than Light Arts already makes SCH like a WHM. Crimson Arts brings just as much as Light Arts or Dark Arts does, in theory. In the utopian scenario, SCH would gain access to Cure V via Addendum: White and it already does gain access to Tier-V elemental spells via Addendum: Black. To attain complete optimization, you either pick Light or Dark Arts and access the respective addendum. Crimson Arts offers a different platform to operate on. You would gain access to enhanced stratagems, excellent new magic but lose out on Tier-V spells from Light Arts or Dark Arts. It's a fair exchange. The game is about marginal gains and balance. This is marginal and balanced.


as it stands now switching between the arts is extremely painless with 45 second strategems;

48 seconds.


were this post made...... back in 75 cap days it would have been PERFECT, however now that we are nearing 99 cap, other jobs (namingly WHM BLM) have surpassed us in our individual fields, and RDM's have surpassed everyone in terms of being a hybrid, i feel it is a bad move for SCH to take ANY steps towards becoming more like another class. at this point we need things that will bring us further into our own individual role that will help boost us further along and make us more desireable in a party.

They were never our individual fields to begin with. WHM and BLM came first. They will always be superior for doing what they were built to do. SCH will never touch that. Scholar appears to transcend these boundaries at times, but you can't judge a job on what it does only on occassion.


Unfortunately with the crimson grimorie idea, we really are not gaining anything we already did not have, and we are being moved into a nearly IDENTICAL spell list to that of a redmage, thus making us less unique. the point of me suggesting native cure potency and magic attack bonus on our arts was to help compensate for the lack of gear on those fields, as well as to boost those fields for players who sub scholar (not nearly enough do, as rdm is pretty much the ultimate magical SJ for the time being).

Again, it optimizes slightly different magic skills, grants the same bonuses/penalties as Dark/Light Arts to those respective magic skills and gives SCH the ability to augment their stratagems to become more potent at the cost of HP. Again, with the "uniqueness" issue, we're all basically the same already. There is no realy difference between BLM/RDM/WHM/SCH if you are judging how unique they are based upon their spell acquisition. The differences lay mostly with job abilities. The problem is when we use /BLM/WHM/RDM as a support job, we get very little in terms of additional job abilities. When they use /SCH as a support job, they basically get 80% of what SCH has to offer. You start giving latent Cure Potency to Light Arts and latent Magic Attack Bonus to Dark Arts, it's over. Nobody will play SCH because using /SCH as a support job will be about as good as actually having it leveled. The only thing you'd be missing is Rapture/Ebullience/Perpetuance/Immanence and faster stratagem recast timers.


animus rasa would be unrealistic due to the fact that it would either have a horribly high recast, making it into a "every once in a while spell", or have a short recast/duration causing us to have to spam the crap out of it thus turning us into good old 75 cap redmages who pretty much only spam 1-3 spells untill our brains melt.

Again, it's a balancing issue. You can't have something like Animus Rasa without balancing it. A large recast time is what balances it. People complain about the recast time on Klimaform, but you still use it don't you? It hasn't turned you into a one-trick pony, has it? No, it hasn't. But it hasn't helped you get any invites lately, has it? No, it hasn't. You wanted something that would make SCH more valued. This is a good start.

I do really enjoy your idea of building our own grimoire. It's akin to a PUP building their automaton, but at the same time it still feels novel. But I feel like it's something that should've been introduced around... level 10 when SCH first gains access to Dark/Light Arts. I'm not sure how I feel about adding things like Ancient Magic Schemas, since it just brings SCH a couple spells closer to being a BLM, despite how similar they already are and it has no real purpose for existing outside of allowing SCH to proc grellow !! inside of lolAbyssea. I'm not sure why schemas would be adding things like +STR or +DEX unless you're just dictating that they're adding that bonus because STR is affiliated with fire and DEX with thunder and INT with ice, etc.

If that's the case, every user-made Grimoire is just likely to be a Elemental Magic Grimoire that has loads of ice-magic schemas to get as much bonus INT as possible and have a relatively devastating line of magic to top it off. Not to mention any additional bonuses they end up getting from the schemas. Also, the compounding affinity would just make something like this totally broken.

As a rough draft for an idea, it's good. But to consider it for serious implementation, it needs to definitely be refined further. It should be mentioned that something like this needs to be SCH onry, obviously. Good work, though, as usual.

[turtlebuddah]

I think the addition of crimson arts would be to boost enhanseing and enfeebling skills allowing for more spells in those two catagories and boosting accuracy, potentcy, and duration of effects. this way you can change from nuke to heal to support on the fly making sch that much more versatile

[hideka]

to be completely honest, i never had a need for klimaform before AF3 feet came out. those completely changed the way i opperated my scholar in terms of nuking.

as for sch being able to add in all spells (excluding merit tier, ja tier, the solace/misery specific spells, and cure 6), that wouldnt help our current damaging capabilities at all >_> think of it: What spells dont we have that can out preform our current spells (Bliz 5 Thunder 5 fire 5 not counted, as we will learn them next update)? awnser: Ja spells and AMII spells, both of which were ineligible to be learned :P.

also my mistake for being off by THREE SECONDS on the ja recasts.

and YES, healing and nuking were ALWAYS scholars individual fields, at level 75 we could preform on PAR with both jobs as we had nearly the same exact spell lists. we LITTERALY would have all but 13 of RDM's spells on our lists, 11 of which are pretty much WORTHLESS (enII spells, gain spells, & bar spells), and all at FULL power with even more spells on our lists. we would be freaking RDM+1 V2.0 . this is 1000000000000000% redmages teritory. by making the grimorie buff both sides at the same time, while restricting us to non-add spells, you are effectively turning us into a redmage. hell even the JA makes us sound like a redmage.

litteraly, by restricting our add spells, you give us an identical spell set to redmage (when /rdm as /rdm is the only sub a scholar should ever use) that just swaps out EN1 spells for Storms, En2 spells for helicies, Refresh II for addaloquium, Gain spells for Animus spells, addle would be the only spell w/o a counterpart. seems to me like sch has the better end of the stick when it comes to spell trade offs as enspells suck, gain spells suck, refresh II and addle would be the only really outstanding benefits to being a redmage over a SCH... whoooo two whole spells and a little bit more casting speed. whoopity doo.

blm has 23 spells that we cannot access, WHM has 24 spells that we can not access. RDM has 13. i dont think i need to argue this any more as to why we shouldnt be any closer to redmages in the slightest. (this dosent count merit spells, as theyre optional)

[hideka]

oh my bad we would have En1 spells on /rdm now wouldnt we. i guess that makes SCH +6 usefull spells over RDM

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Don't mind your list, though I'd say no to the Sublimation adjustment.

[Silvers]

I think we may be looking at this wrong in a way for some improvements to SCH. I'd love for more distinction from RDM, BLM, and WHM. At the same time, we have to remember there will not be but so much because of the sub job system. SE has failed to outline SCH more with it's own unique spells. SCH's first of set unique spells was storms and klimaform. Great additions and pretty much our bread and butter (the entrée being arts and stratagems). Then there was Helixes, another good addition and people love the concept of them (more so before MV was nerfed in such a lazy and discriminating manner, it could have been handled differently). I shocked there wasn't more spells added to SCH that would be helixes, in that they require the presence of weather. Maybe we should look at Geomancer in Past FF's to design/redsign some things for SCH. As much as people would like to see Geomancer be added, to be honest it wouldn't fix so well in FF11 to most mobs in a zone hold a resistance for the type of climate/terrain they are placed (unless the job was completely reimagined, but that's another story). Here one thing off the top of my head that could be added. I'll post more later, this headache is killing me.

New job trait

Geomancy - grants additional potency to spells the same as weather (outside of what weather does 10% of the time with the obis or 100% with them).

Let me know what level you think would be best for it, if it sould be one bold number for the effect, or should it be gradually upscaled.

@Hideka very creative ideas, but some of the names could be simpler. I'm aware they fit the theme, just saying :)

I have a feeling SE has something in mind about spells with 2 elements with the next tier of helix spells, playing on the meaning of a "Double Helix"...

[TheBlackBard]

Cure V would be AWESOME TO HAVE! And I'd think at some point rdm, sch have to have something yo get HP up, as HP keeps increasing and monsters keep getting nastier and nastier. Cure IV even with rapture just doesnt cut it anymore. I feel like a smn trying to main heal sometimes...UGH and can carbuncle get some more healing magic too.

But Rapture + CureV + Acc = Ultimacurega! And I think the -ga cures stop at III Or IV right. That would give sch the definite upper hand in those cases. So I can see why SE is kinda holding back.

I'd like to see Flash and holy too. There is NO freaking reason why whm and paladin are the only to get it and we have Divine skill. Blah blah blah rdm use to have flash. But if we cant proc green with all ele, at least give us a shot with some of the divine stuff.

[hideka]

lol, the names are all just latin words for old DnD type spells XD

[Fetus]

to be completely honest, i never had a need for klimaform before AF3 feet came out. those completely changed the way i opperated my scholar in terms of nuking.

as for sch being able to add in all spells (excluding merit tier, ja tier, the solace/misery specific spells, and cure 6), that wouldnt help our current damaging capabilities at all >_> think of it: What spells dont we have that can out preform our current spells (Bliz 5 Thunder 5 fire 5 not counted, as we will learn them next update)? awnser: Ja spells and AMII spells, both of which were ineligible to be learned :P.

also my mistake for being off by THREE SECONDS on the ja recasts.

and YES, healing and nuking were ALWAYS scholars individual fields, at level 75 we could preform on PAR with both jobs as we had nearly the same exact spell lists. we LITTERALY would have all but 13 of RDM's spells on our lists, 11 of which are pretty much WORTHLESS (enII spells, gain spells, & bar spells), and all at FULL power with even more spells on our lists. we would be freaking RDM+1 V2.0 . this is 1000000000000000% redmages teritory. by making the grimorie buff both sides at the same time, while restricting us to non-add spells, you are effectively turning us into a redmage. hell even the JA makes us sound like a redmage.

litteraly, by restricting our add spells, you give us an identical spell set to redmage (when /rdm as /rdm is the only sub a scholar should ever use) that just swaps out EN1 spells for Storms, En2 spells for helicies, Refresh II for addaloquium, Gain spells for Animus spells, addle would be the only spell w/o a counterpart. seems to me like sch has the better end of the stick when it comes to spell trade offs as enspells suck, gain spells suck, refresh II and addle would be the only really outstanding benefits to being a redmage over a SCH... whoooo two whole spells and a little bit more casting speed. whoopity doo.

blm has 23 spells that we cannot access, WHM has 24 spells that we can not access. RDM has 13. i dont think i need to argue this any more as to why we shouldnt be any closer to redmages in the slightest. (this dosent count merit spells, as theyre optional)

You're starting to sound like a butthurt kid, sorry. If someone makes an error, I point it out. Don't take it personally. Crimson Arts makes us sound like a RDM? How the hell does Light Arts or Dark Arts make us sound like then? Derp. Again, you're hung up on comparing how similiar jobs are by their available spells, which is dumb. Who cares about the amount of spells BLM, WHM or RDM has that we can't access.

Some of you guys are demanding some radical changes that just aren't going to happen. They're neat, but impractical or completely unbalanced. Turn SCH into Black Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into White Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into Geomancer! No, wait, we want SCH to be it's own job although we all know it's just a hybrid job like RDM! Some of you seem to forget that the game is about marginal improvements and lots of balance. You can't add something like Crimson Arts without balancing it. Not allowing the SCH to access either Addendum: White or Addendum: Black is a perfect balance. If you can't understand that, then I dunno' what to tell you.

Have you ever used Accession+En-spells with the maximum amount of Enhancing Magic possible? I mean with equipment, merits and capped skill. Try it some time. You can do it on SCH or RDM. The amount of extra damage is fantastic. When SCH can finally access Haste via /RDM, it'll be even better. When SCH can finally access Hastega via an augmented stratagem through Crimson Arts, it'll be even better. Oh, wait, you wouldn't want that. It would make us too much like SMN.

[Silvers]

You're starting to sound like a butthurt kid, sorry. If someone makes an error, I point it out. Don't take it personally. Crimson Arts makes us sound like a RDM? How the hell does Light Arts or Dark Arts make us sound like then? Derp. Again, you're hung up on comparing how similiar jobs are by their available spells, which is dumb. Who cares about the amount of spells BLM, WHM or RDM has that we can't access.

Some of you guys are demanding some radical changes that just aren't going to happen. They're neat, but impractical or completely unbalanced. Turn SCH into Black Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into White Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into Geomancer! No, wait, we want SCH to be it's own job although we all know it's just a hybrid job like RDM! Some of you seem to forget that the game is about marginal improvements and lots of balance. You can't add something like Crimson Arts without balancing it. Not allowing the SCH to access either Addendum: White or Addendum: Black is a perfect balance. If you can't understand that, then I dunno' what to tell you.

Have you ever used Accession+En-spells with the maximum amount of Enhancing Magic possible? I mean with equipment, merits and capped skill. Try it some time. You can do it on SCH or RDM. The amount of extra damage is fantastic. When SCH can finally access Haste via /RDM, it'll be even better. When SCH can finally access Hastega via an augmented stratagem through Crimson Arts, it'll be even better. Oh, wait, you wouldn't want that. It would make us too much like SMN.

Look like you're the one going on a rant like a kid right now, just take what you can from criticism (if there is any in the post). Not everyone going to see things how you see it. If you what to try to more people to, you're going to at least be willing to explain things with more depth than you have.

You mention about wanting the enhances Regen on AF3 to be swap to Adloquium. Who is to say that will not be in the merit system to come to enhance that, like WHM merits for regen are now? Granted I'm just guess, but it would make sense of what the base was left at a 1TP tic without boosting it on any AF3 either.

Guess the "turn SCH in to Geomancer" was at me, if that's what got from that post you don't read very well. Taking an aspect or and idea from a job and mod it or apply it differently, is not just copying and pasting. If you know anything about past FF games, SCH had no direct correlation with the use of weather. Geomancer does though, but maybe that went under your radar.

About the balance you speak of the ability you proposed, "not able to use addendum" is not balancing anything. If "Crimson Arts" is being it's own seperate art, it would be natural you cannot use either. Second, how is it balance if your in your words, "Crimson Arts bestows the same 10% MP Cost Reduction/Casting Time/Recasting Time benefits and penalties to respective spells as Dark/Light Arts. In this case, dark and divine magic would be penalized." SCH has no divine magic, and only aspir and drain natively. Even when you factor in sub, that's not much of a draw back. It could use some more thought about it's balance and practicality. One could just switch Light/Dart Arts to with better results than a lot of what you propose for Crimson Arts do the number of charges needed in it's application. Also for the charges it would consume, the boost to most the abilities are too small to make it practical. For 50%MP stratagems, using HP is different... It seems you're selling Crimson Arts on being able to "Hastega", Warp-ga, "spike-ga" and RR-ga(II) only.

Perhaps making "Crimson Arts" into a 10min ability with a 5min duration would be a better approach. Having it boost stratagems while Light/Dark Arts are active; but it eats percentage of your HP per tic (1-2% just a suggestion), then also take an additoin percentage per stratagem activation.

[Fetus]

Look like you're the one going on a rant like a kid right now, just take what you can from criticism (if there is any in the post). Not everyone going to see things how you see it. If you what to try to more people to, you're going to at least be willing to explain things with more depth than you have.

I never assumed that anyone is going to see anything like I do. I'm am honestly surprised that nobody has suggested introducing the Crimson Arts before me, though. For being such an integral part of the Scholar story, it's like everyone just forgot about it. I'm not sure how much more in depth you want me to be. I've been quite thorough in most of my replies and ideas.


You mention about wanting the enhances Regen on AF3 to be swap to Adloquium. Who is to say that will not be in the merit system to come to enhance that, like WHM merits for regen are now? Granted I'm just guess, but it would make sense of what the base was left at a 1TP tic without boosting it on any AF3 either.

Sure, enhancing the Adloquium effect might be a merit. It might not be. I'm just pointing out that WHM, obviously being the superior user of Regen, has at least two pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. RDM, obviously being the superior user of Refresh, has one piece of equipment that enhances the effect and a load of equipment that enhances the duration. SCH, being the obvious and only user of Adloquium, should have a piece of equipment that enhances it. It just seems a little cop-out to put a Regen-enhancing effect on the bonnet over a Adloquium-enhancing effect.


Guess the "turn SCH in to Geomancer" was at me, if that's what got from that post you don't read very well. Taking an aspect or and idea from a job and mod it or apply it differently, is not just copying and pasting. If you know anything about past FF games, SCH had no direct correlation with the use of weather. Geomancer does though, but maybe that went under your radar.

You know what's funny? People who are overly defensive. I said one thing and you feel the need to slip in as many insults as you can in retaliation. If you think I'm attacking you because you made a comment about Geomancer, get over yourself. I don't give a crap about Geomancer or anything that it may or may not have in common with Scholar. I am tired, after years of hearing it, about people wanting to bring stupid jobs into the game like Geomancer, Time Mage or whatever other crap you people want to drag out of the closet and put into FFXI. It's not the same game as it's predecessors. Stop trying to turn it into one.


About the balance you speak of the ability you proposed, "not able to use addendum" is not balancing anything. If "Crimson Arts" is being it's own seperate art, it would be natural you cannot use either.

It balances it perfectly. Example: If you could use Addendum: Black under the effect of Crimson Arts, you would be able to use a augmented Ebullience for +10% more damage on Tier V nukes... Thunder V, for example. That would be ridiculous considering that Scholar can already reach ~ +68% more damage on any elemental nuke, as is. The balance is to remove the ability to access either Addendum and allow the use of "Fusion" magic instead of Tier V nukes to allow for alternative play-style.


Second, how is it balance if your in your words, "Crimson Arts bestows the same 10% MP Cost Reduction/Casting Time/Recasting Time benefits and penalties to respective spells as Dark/Light Arts. In this case, dark and divine magic would be penalized." SCH has no divine magic, and only aspir and drain natively. Even when you factor in sub, that's not much of a draw back. It could use some more thought about it's balance and practicality. One could just switch Light/Dart Arts to with better results than a lot of what you propose for Crimson Arts do the number of charges needed in it's application. Also for the charges it would consume, the boost to most the abilities are too small to make it practical. For 50%MP stratagems, using HP is different... It seems you're selling Crimson Arts on being able to "Hastega", Warp-ga, "spike-ga" and RR-ga(II) only.

Gimping a Scholars Divine Magic skill is about as notable as having it optimized through Light Arts. In either case, it's completely worthless to even talk about it. Something had to go, though. Dark Magic is slightly different. Drain and Aspir are essential spells to a lot of Scholars and the trade off might not be worth it to them. The whole point is to offer more choices. If you don't like X choice, then don't make it. Stick with what you feel most comfortable with. If you're wanting to use augmented stratagems with Fusion Magic, but still have some capacity to cure without penalty, then Crimson Arts wins out.

And you do play the game right? What's the difference between a Haubergeon and a Haubergeon +1? 1 STR, 1 DEX, 2 Accuracy and 2 Attack. That's it. The price of this meager upgrade is a sizable amount of Gil. In fact, what is the difference between any piece of NQ and HQ equipment? The differences are always small and usually only arguably worth it. That's how everything is in this game. It's about small gains adding up. It always has been. The spells you mentioned are selling points. You're not allured by at least a few of them? Being able to use Fusion spells with augmented Ebullience and Immanence stratagems? The capacity to use certain light and dark magic without being penalized? Other augmented stratagems? I guess those aren't also selling points.


Perhaps making "Crimson Arts" into a 10min ability with a 5min duration would be a better approach. Having it boost stratagems while Light/Dark Arts are active; but it eats percentage of your HP per tic (1-2% just a suggestion), then also take an additoin percentage per stratagem activation.

This is the first real piece of constructive input you've had to offer. Thanks, but I have better ideas. Delete the SCH forum, scratch all of the ideas found in this thread, and replace all of the Scholar JA with these two new abilities:

I wish I had more MAB and grellow triggers: Turns your Scholar into a Black Mage of equalvalent level.

Or...

I wish I could use Curaga, Cure V and Cure VI: Turns your Scholar into a White Mage of equalvalent level.

There ya' go. Every problem fixed.

[Silvers]

I never assumed that anyone is going to see anything like I do. I'm am honestly surprised that nobody has suggested introducing the Crimson Arts before me, though. For being such an integral part of the Scholar story, it's like everyone just forgot about it. I'm not sure how much more in depth you want me to be. I've been quite thorough in most of my replies and ideas.

Most isn't all, and with quite a bite of what you have said people are not going to to see your train of thought.


Sure, enhancing the Adloquium effect might be a merit. It might not be. I'm just pointing out that WHM, obviously being the superior user of Regen, has at least two pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. RDM, obviously being the superior user of Refresh, has one piece of equipment that enhances the effect and a load of equipment that enhances the duration. SCH, being the obvious and only user of Adloquium, should have a piece of equipment that enhances it. It just seems a little cop-out to put a Regen-enhancing effect on the bonnet over a Adloquium-enhancing effect.

SE most likely has their plan for it, there is still a lot to be added. Until we know more about what's to come, it's too early to ask for chances in exsisting gear. Why not ask for another piece entirely then to do the job (which is a good possibility). I just try to look pass the here and now.


You know what's funny? People who are overly defensive. I said one thing and you feel the need to slip in as many insults as you can in retaliation. If you think I'm attacking you because you made a comment about Geomancer, get over yourself. I don't give a crap about Geomancer or anything that it may or may not have in common with Scholar. I am tired, after years of hearing it, about people wanting to bring stupid jobs into the game like Geomancer, Time Mage or whatever other crap you people want to drag out of the closet and put into FFXI. It's not the same game as it's predecessors. Stop trying to turn it into one.

Overly deffensive is what you are being now, and it seem you're the one stuck on yourself. In your other post you call someone immature, and then be that way yourself. About insulting you, only talked on what I saw once. You can put yourself in your "funny" people category. I don't care if you was trying to attack me or not, and didn't see it that way. Even if you was, such the empty words about an my idea can't be taken seriously. You missed the point entirely; taking an aspect or and idea from a job (this game or another), and mod it or apply it differently. You know, so it fits more into this game and into this class. It's pretty much the foundation of SCH, part WHM and BLM applied differently.


It balances it perfectly. Example: If you could use Addendum: Black under the effect of Crimson Arts, you would be able to use a augmented Ebullience for +10% more damage on Tier V nukes... Thunder V, for example. That would be ridiculous considering that Scholar can already reach ~ +68% more damage on any elemental nuke, as is. The balance is to remove the ability to access either Addendum and allow the use of "Fusion" magic instead of Tier V nukes to allow for alternative play-style.

Gimping a Scholars Divine Magic skill is about as notable as having it optimized through Light Arts. In either case, it's completely worthless to even talk about it. Something had to go, though. Dark Magic is slightly different. Drain and Aspir are essential spells to a lot of Scholars and the trade off might not be worth it to them. The whole point is to offer more choices. If you don't like X choice, then don't make it. Stick with what you feel most comfortable with. If you're wanting to use augmented stratagems with Fusion Magic, but still have some capacity to cure without penalty, then Crimson Arts wins out.

And you do play the game right? What's the difference between a Haubergeon and a Haubergeon +1? 1 STR, 1 DEX, 2 Accuracy and 2 Attack. That's it. The price of this meager upgrade is a sizable amount of Gil. In fact, what is the difference between any piece of NQ and HQ equipment? The differences are always small and usually only arguably worth it. That's how everything is in this game. It's about small gains adding up. It always has been. The spells you mentioned are selling points. You're not allured by at least a few of them? Being able to use Fusion spells with augmented Ebullience and Immanence stratagems? The capacity to use certain light and dark magic without being penalized? Other augmented stratagems? I guess those aren't also selling points.

Again, where is your balance in using almost your whole spell list on sch without a draw back? Divine magic as you put it is "useless", then what are we giving up for balance ... just dark magic. Your defensive was, "something had to go", there are still other skills that could be penalized like enfeebling. Where is your pracaticality for when adding another 10% to dmg (using 2 stratagems for 30% boost without af3) when using the 2nd charge on another spell would be more benefically (be it for Ebullience or Immanence). As you say, using on tier 5 "is ridiculous". How less "ridiculous" does it make it for anything else, like the tier 5 replacement fusion spells? It's the same premise. How does the you brought up armor fit into this picture? I'll go with the connection you was trying to make. Yes there are differences in NQ and HQ pieces their difference between them doesn't always make the HQ a good choice to warrant paying their cost. Kind of like how I described stratagems above. The concept of fusion magic or double helixes (which has been around for years) will probably see the light of day without Crimson Arts. What warrants the implementation when it does not hold to the balance or particality of the game in it's use how you describe it.


Thanks, but I have better ideas.
Well lets hear them, because your Crimson Arts needs more structure and depth. At this point, it's shallow, flawed, and unbalance. On a side note; for someone who dislikes readapting ideas to the job, you sure like to do so to from others. Anyway that's not being evaluated. Not saying there isn't some potential in it, but Crimson Arts is not what you say it is in it's current structure. Can take that any you want to.

[Fetus]

It may be flawed, but you're going to have to explain how it's shallow. Unbalanced? Still hung up on that? It's like you're reading every thing I type and instantly forgetting it.

If you have real ideas for real adjustments for Crimson Arts, why don't you suggest some instead?

Aside from the meh one you mentioned a couple posts back, you've done little to suggest anything constructive or interesting.

Anyway, you can take this all as a personal attack like everybody else does in these forums or you can just realize that it's all constructive criticism and nothing personal.

[Silvers]

Whatever Fetus, maybe you should check on what balance is and means. You make false assumptions of someone, then you do it again, trying to throw words in someone elses mouth. I didn't say they was in your final phase of presentation did I, no. What I have been saying it needs work, you need to go into more details for what you trying to explain it to do, and need to be balanced more than what you have said. I pity you, for that you cannot take criticism. I did read the end of your post, but why bring up stupid comments just being said for no reason? I understand not just the balance SCH needs in the job it's self, but in respect/relation to other jobs. What some others have asking to add to SCH (not all said in this forum) would effect BLM, WHM, and some even RDM (3 more jobs I have under my belt since before SMN burns and Abyssea). Good luck to you with that attittude on the rest of the site if that's how you act when people show problems withs your ideas/logic, and hightlight your fallacies.

[hideka]

You're starting to sound like a butthurt kid, sorry. If someone makes an error, I point it out. Don't take it personally. Crimson Arts makes us sound like a RDM? How the hell does Light Arts or Dark Arts make us sound like then? Derp. Again, you're hung up on comparing how similiar jobs are by their available spells, which is dumb. Who cares about the amount of spells BLM, WHM or RDM has that we can't access.

Some of you guys are demanding some radical changes that just aren't going to happen. They're neat, but impractical or completely unbalanced. Turn SCH into Black Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into White Mage without penalty! Turn SCH into Geomancer! No, wait, we want SCH to be it's own job although we all know it's just a hybrid job like RDM! Some of you seem to forget that the game is about marginal improvements and lots of balance. You can't add something like Crimson Arts without balancing it. Not allowing the SCH to access either Addendum: White or Addendum: Black is a perfect balance. If you can't understand that, then I dunno' what to tell you.

Have you ever used Accession+En-spells with the maximum amount of Enhancing Magic possible? I mean with equipment, merits and capped skill. Try it some time. You can do it on SCH or RDM. The amount of extra damage is fantastic. When SCH can finally access Haste via /RDM, it'll be even better. When SCH can finally access Hastega via an augmented stratagem through Crimson Arts, it'll be even better. Oh, wait, you wouldn't want that. It would make us too much like SMN.

no offense, but if someone makes a miniscule mistake and you point it out in an attempt to bash them, then that makes you petty good sir.

Scholar from the get go was modeled into being a class that could essentially be two diffrent jobs at the same time, but only utilize one of them at a time to the fullest. what your suggesting is blurring the line and trying to make a job that is essentially RED MAGE. Scholar has NEVER been a perfect Omni freaking mage fusion. NEVER. we have always been a bastardized combination of white mage and blackmage with just a splash of unique spells, but NEVER able to access both types at full power at the same time.

by restricting addenendum white, you restrict Na spells. what spells does redmage not have access to? NA SPELLS.
by restricting addenendum black, you restrict Tier 5 magic (all other adenda reliant spells are provided with RDM sub)
What spells does Redmage not have access to? Tier 5 Magic.

Redmage total fast cast : 50% @ cap
Scholar total Fast cast: 48%.

Redmage and scholar are already FAR too similar to one another. bringing them any closer together (namingly allowing sch to use all spells at full power) will simply make scholar into a freaking more magically orientated redmage.

yes ive used aoe enspells. inside of abyssea their damage dosent even count for 1/10th (on 6 DD's) of a GOOD warriors damage. outside however they are very good.

also if you look at WHY haste cant be paired with ascension: name one spell that scholar does not naturally know that can be paired with ascension: Awnser, you cant because it dosent exist. now if they added haste to scholars spell list, then YES we would beable to ascension haste. theres also a good reason why we CANT ascension haste: MP. if you could ascension haste, in the term of one dynamis, a scholar could spend less then 1/20th of the MP then a WHM, who isnt subbing SCH, on casting haste. that would make SCH the only job who should EVER cast haste (or at least a whm or rdm subbing sch). i wont lie tho, id love to see all casters get access to hastega.

i think you need to get a whole lot less hostile with your posting. people didnt like your idea, so i suggest getting over it. this is an adult world, where temper-tantrums, name calling, and all around belligerence arent tolerated. we are having an adult conversation and debate over a certian topic. by resorting to name calling or failing to provide a proper defense to your idea, your just making less and less people want to support your topic. I suggest taking a step back, calming down, and approaching your idea from anothers perspective and attempting to see what they see wrong with your idea. once you do that, hit the drawing board and mallet out a more refined and balanced idea that will please people. this is how progress is made, not by petty name calling or brash insults.

i think your idea has merit, but in my oppinion it is being put into the wrong direction. i love the fact that you want to incorporate the jobs lore more into the job, however its just not logical to have it done for several reasons: Schultz has the blood seed grimorie, its a tool created by sacrificing anothers allies and feeding it their blood and souls. if you havent noticed FFXI DOES NOT SUPPORT PLAYERS BEING EVIL! even darkknights the most evil mofos on the planet, they are still heroes who use the darkness to do good on the planet. i just cant see SE allowing us to use an item that was made from the souls of our allies.

[hideka]

wow, i totally missed you calling geomancer a stupid job. youve quite obviously NEVER played ff tactics with a good geomancer. geomancers are freaking AWESOME. i demand you take back that statement!

[Fetus]

wow, i totally missed you calling geomancer a stupid job. youve quite obviously NEVER played ff tactics with a good geomancer. geomancers are freaking AWESOME. i demand you take back that statement!

lol. Fine, I take it back. I honestly forgot about FF Tactics, although it's the only other FF game I've ever played. Don't throw rocks at me.

A lot of the lore of FFXI cannot be literally implemented into the game. We all know the Blood-seed Grimoire consumes the blood of other magi, but because of game functionality, we can't do something like that. As much as I would want to drag certain people into Ruhotz Silvermines and sacrifice them, I simply can't. The only other way I see to implementing it would be to have it consume your own HP instead, which seems infinitely more feasible.

The idea behind augmenting stratagems was because Ulbrecht had enhanced stratagems due to his dabbling into the Blood-seed Grimoire. The only difference between my suggestions for augmenting versus those of Ulbrecht is that his boosted Alacrity made all of his spells insta-cast, Manifestation made all of his magic AoE and his Ebullience was far superior to what we have now. Unfortunately for Ulbrecht, it ended up costing him his life. To implement this in a playable fashion, my idea was to allow for similiar effects at the cost of your own HP. It's simliar, yet not the same. Does everyone see the connection yet or do I have to make a bullet-point list? I think I'm being quite clear.


no offense, but if someone makes a miniscule mistake and you point it out in an attempt to bash them, then that makes you petty good sir.

I pointed it out because :45 is not :48. If you think I was "bashing" you over 3 seconds, you're making me out to be more of a sociopath than I really am. It's nothing personal, really. I'm anal about details, even completely miniscule ones.


by restricting addenendum white, you restrict Na spells. what spells does redmage not have access to? NA SPELLS.
by restricting addenendum black, you restrict Tier 5 magic (all other adenda reliant spells are provided with RDM sub)
What spells does Redmage not have access to? Tier 5 Magic.

Redmage total fast cast : 50% @ cap
Scholar total Fast cast: 48%.

Thank you for pointing that out. I did completely overlook the -na spell issue and the Fast Cast thing. Although, I'm not sure if you're complaining about the Fast Cast or not.


theres also a good reason why we CANT ascension haste: MP. if you could ascension haste, in the term of one dynamis, a scholar could spend less then 1/20th of the MP then a WHM, who isnt subbing SCH, on casting haste. that would make SCH the only job who should EVER cast haste (or at least a whm or rdm subbing sch). i wont lie tho, id love to see all casters get access to hastega.

I don't see how this is an issue at all. SCH is already renowned for MP conservation, it's nothing new that they spend far less MP to use the same goodies as other mages. Nobody complains about it, though, or sees it as a negative do they?Everybody wants Hastega. SCH is a perfect candidate to learn it under certain protocol. As is, the only job who should really Haste anybody is RDM. They're perfectly optimized to do it with all that increased enhancing magic duration+Composure.


i think you need to get a whole lot less hostile with your posting. people didnt like your idea, so i suggest getting over it. this is an adult world, where temper-tantrums, name calling, and all around belligerence arent tolerated. we are having an adult conversation and debate over a certian topic. by resorting to name calling or failing to provide a proper defense to your idea, your just making less and less people want to support your topic. I suggest taking a step back, calming down, and approaching your idea from anothers perspective and attempting to see what they see wrong with your idea. once you do that, hit the drawing board and mallet out a more refined and balanced idea that will please people. this is how progress is made, not by petty name calling or brash insults.

So far, I've only really seen two people complain. Considering the utter lack of traffic to the forums, in general, I wouldn't consider two people as the majority. Not to start anything, but the real world tolerates name-calling, intolerance and belligerence about as much as it tolerates politeness, tolerance and understanding. But that's not really a discussion for this forum.

The thing is, I have provided plenty of "defense" for my idea. I jotted down some ideas, typed them up, posted them in this thread and tried to make them as concise and organized as possible. Because some people read the first few words, they jump to some pretty baseless conclusions or assumptions. When somebody like Silvers comes along and says "ur idea is dumb n op n shallow", I don't feel any obligation to "defend" my idea to him because he's made no points about how it is dumb, shallow or over-powered. With a few tweaks, Crimson Arts could be a fantastic asset to Scholar, but I don't see anybody except me trying to figure out how to improve it. Just some people making unconnected or trite commentary.

If you think the idea has merit, try to improve it. I've done my best to try to include other sensible ideas into my own, but it just seems like everyone would rather take stabs at it without trying to improve it... and if that's how things are gonna' work around this forum, there's no point in anybody posting anything because nothing constructive will be designed.

To Silvers:

Shallow: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shallow

Balance: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/balance

I am inviting you to point out exactly what is shallow and unbalanced (about Crimson Arts); And I cordially invite you to improve it.

So far, you've commented about giving it a shorter duration without reason. The HP-consuming effect has already been covered by the augmented stratagems themselves. In terms of balance, the only things you've mentioned is the Divine Magic Skill/Dark Magic Skill issue and that the bonuses aren't large enough.

In my opinion, Light Arts shouldn't even optimize Divine Magic Skill. Especially since SCH learns no native divine-magic spells. It makes little sense that it does. They should probably just remove that aspect of Light Arts from the game, IMO.

A quick fix for Crimson Arts would be to just have it optimize all aspects of magic skills then.

[Judge]

SCH being a support mix from whm, rdm, and blm makes it hard to decide what it needs adjusted. most the previous posts (even from other threads) compare sch to blm or whm repeatedly. you cant(shouldnt) be surpassing the specialist in his/her own field. that's why i support SCH getting something unique.


Glyph
Target: self
Duration: 180 seconds
MP cost: T4ish
Cast time: T2ish
Recast time: 60 seconds doubled if used with accession/manifestation
Element: Varies with weather effect when cast(w/o weather it fails to cast)

upon striking the player, enemy activates a single effect(buff wears off after activated) taking significant damage.
(they could even use the skill-chain animations)

Specific element add. effect:
Fire- plague or addle
Water- poison
Thunder- Stun
Earth- slow or break
Wind- silence or gravity
Ice- paralyze or bind
Light- dia3 or flash
Dark- curse or bio3

having a duality for each element means sch couldn't spam one for cheese effect, it would mostly be for the supportive dmg.

Elemental skill could determine the dmg, enfeebling skill determine the enfeeble duration, inherits bonuses from Helix merits, and would be very original, bringing something to soloing AND to the party.

Imagine tank has hate.. gets hit.. boom! activates the "mine"... healer cures.. pulls hate.. boom! another "mine".. DD WS's.. pulls hate..
lather, rinse ,repeat... SCH recasts.

We already have ~spikes in game. What about Glyphs? This would be "evolved enhancement". SCH is supposed to be able to combine skills after all.

[hideka]

wow, that actually sounds kinda cool lol. however id probably just make it single target castable on PT members, with a hefty recast.

[Fetus]

I've updated my post concerning Crimson Arts and other content-related changes pertaining to SCH.

Click here if you're too lazy to scroll back to page 4. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1050-SCH-adjustments-amp-Additions/page4)

[Merton9999]

I love the fusion magic idea, especially Hideka's names for them. I'm casting a yes vote for the light and darkness ones too, at 99, to create the all-element SC. Or, maybe that's how we could get access to Ultima, rather than making it a straight schema. I like Judge's Glyph concept a lot too.

I'm also in favor of any others that give something unique or fun to the job, rather than adding existing spells to SCH. I like the regain and hate control spells for this reason, and would like to see them enhanced through gear, merits, traits or JA's. Same with the weather spells - double element yes, but I also love the Geomancy concept I've read that adds a bonus to the target depending on their weather, regardless of the source of the weather (zone or storm spell). MAB for ice, evasion for wind, double attack % for fire, etc.

Cure V is the only existing spell I'd like to see added, besides the remaining tier V nukes.

As far as all the balance arguments are concerned I have to confess I couldn't care less. I just want to look cool in my lab coat instead of that awful WHM AF3.

[MrButter]

First off I don't typically approve of all this clamoring for buffs to SCH. It's a very powerful job as is, Barring the enmity generation.

Scholar doesn't need to nuke on the same level as a Black mage, as that is black mage's niche. Similarly they don't need to heal on the same level as a white mage. Further enhancements to light and dark arts is really quite unnecessary.

The sublimation bit is just silly. If you're too lazy to macro in and out of an idle set, suffer the consequences. Even if I agreed with the point, the programming side of it would be unnecessarily elaborate on SE's end. If you have no gear to enhance it, sublimation already charges, based on your HP, in about 1m20s and restores ~250, which makes it's MP return roughly equal to Refresh II in half the time.

Magic might is... Silly, as is prevent death and dual-elemental nuking. We have perpetuation and it's pretty damn Skippy, and our enhancing magic skill is just about on par with RDM. We already nuke better than RDM and cure better, so it would be unfair to also buff better than them. I also do not understand the poo-poo face attitude about not closing level 3 skill chains with spells. I mean, you're closing a skill chain with a magic spell. That's already kind of 'lolwut?" You are essentially getting a 50% damage boost to your last nuke (60% with +2 hands) and setting up a magic burst opportunity for other mages in your party. SCH in general is a job that can do everything with a little added flair. We aren't supposed to be able to do everything just as well/better than other jobs. We don't need to be on BLM tier for nukes, we don't need to close level 3 skill chains with the melee jobs, and we don't need Cure 5. (An enmity reduction to Cure 4 would be sooooo nice though.)

Now then for the sake of not being a complete Debby-downer, I actually like this magic shield idea(sans the name), particularly if it stacks with carols. If you don't need magic staggers in Abyssea, most people don't keep bards handy anymore and an extra option for magical defense is always a + in my book. Also Modus Veritas is in great need of fixing. I don't need quick recasts, I just want it to go back to it's old potentially broken self. Sure if you get 18 scholars together you can break the game but a.) it's not going to happen, b.) Just make AV and PW immune to it, like soul eater.

And quick FYI it's 10 minutes recast not 20.

NOW THAT THAT IS OUT OF THE WAY!

In general I would absolutely love to see the spell Astra make it into the buff roster. And it doesn't even have to go to Scholar, I'd be perfectly happy to see it on White Mage. Or better still: both jobs, to scholar under Addendum: White. I'm simply posting this here because I main Scholar.

For those not in the know, Astra appears in the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance series, and Also in Final Fantasy 13 under the name 'Veil' (but Astra just sounds much cooler.) It blocks a status ailment from landing on the target and then disappears like a blink shadow. Now naturally when placed in XI it would need to grant maybe 2-3 Status blocks to be truly useful, and preferably it would not be dispelled by AoE like standard shadows are. Imagine the stress this could take off of healing jobs when fighting status-heavy mobs. In general it would be a very strong spell to add to a healer's arsenal. Accession compatibility would further increase it's usefulness, as would blocking the instant-death effect.

(edits for spelling grammar and a few other corrections.)

Second Edit:

It would be a nice touch to reduce the required level to learn the storm spells so that Thunderstorm, Voidstorm and Aurorastorm are accessible to sub job. With that in mind, I'm in favor of a storm II spell roster to keep SCH's weather abilities their own, in the same way that while all /RDM jobs get refresh, RDM still has Refresh II.

I will also have rebuttal for ideas posted beyond the first page after i have time to read through them. I am currently cleaning my closet.