FFXI death, PS2 fault?

[EvangelusFFXI]

[B]Q: There have been no updates to the auto-translate dictionary recently. Can we expect any terms to be added in the future?

A: PlayStation 2 memory limitations have placed us in a difficult situation where the addition of new terms to the auto-translate dictionary would require the deletion of existing entries. Given this, there are no current plans to add new terms, and we ask for your patience and understanding as we consider all possibilities. In a related matter, we are looking into updating the glossary contained in the Play Guide available on the official web site.

Come on, maybe it's time to break this?
FFXI death because of PS2 version ...

look at this please :

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3113

Push FFXI in 2.0 version full windows pc developpement, and enjoy !

[PizzaTheHut]

Another to report for flaming. It's not going anywhere give it up. Theirs already a bunch of selfish posts in multiple threads. If this is the only reason why you made an account here go back to the dying bg or alla.

[cidbahamut]

It's a valid concern when the hardware continues to prevent basic quality of life changes from being implemented.

[Wint]

I posted this on Twitter, my idea wouldn't be to end support for PS2, but perhaps release a game upgrade for PC users (and XBOX 360 I suppose, if it can handle it) that would amount to a graphical update of the game. I know it doesn't solve issues like the Auto Translate limitation, but I know most in my LS would pay upwards of $40 for a prettier XI. I know I would. Certainly they could make enough to justify the development cost.

[Wade]

but I know most in my LS would pay upwards of $40 for a prettier XI. I know I would. Certainly they could make enough to justify the development cost.

I would too. It would be nice to have some better graphics. Would be even better if the NPC's actually had voices, but that's just wishful thinking :D But, I would certainly be willing to pay for better graphics.

[Stromgarde]

Other issues aside, that is a very well-written article.

[EvangelusFFXI]

Another to report for flaming. It's not going anywhere give it up. Theirs already a bunch of selfish posts in multiple threads. If this is the only reason why you made an account here go back to the dying bg or alla.

I's not a flaming report, but a real problem. We can speak about this, right?

[Valiarius]

I don't see where he is flaming, the OP is actually presenting a case in a very well thought out manner. And if you think about it for a bit, maybe SE can upgrade FFXI to become what FFXIV hasn't.

[Dreimar]

That article take care just about percentage, could be usefull to know how many are Japanese/Asian PS2/PS3/Xbox active accounts compared to NA/EU. Same thing about PC users, then we could get "the reason why " maybe :D

[PizzaTheHut]

I's not a flaming report, but a real problem. We can speak about this, right?

Well I'm pretty sure you can but it can still technically be harassment against your fellow players that can't or just would rather play on PS2. The fight is getting old.

If they would officially ask players about it have a guaranteed graphics overhaul(at least FF13 quality) so PS3/360 could still support it THEN people would be all for it. I know I'd switch. I almost never play my PC version because I'd rather use the high end thing for better modern games.

[Wint]

Well I'm pretty sure you can but it can still technically be harassment against your fellow players that can't or just would rather play on PS2. The fight is getting old.

If they would officially ask players about it have a guaranteed graphics overhaul(at least FF13 quality) so PS3/360 could still support it THEN people would be all for it. I know I'd switch. I almost never play my PC version because I'd rather use the high end thing for better modern games.

Do you think the PS2 version looks better than the PC version? May I ask, have you tried playing with registry settings? You can make the game look rather fantastic with some tweaks that don't involve any third party tools or whatever. Just setting your background resolutions to be double of the game resolution alone makes the game look 10x better.

[EvangelusFFXI]

ho ok, your a ps2 player. Sorry :/
But you know, the ps2 limitation, stop the world of vanadiel for sure ....
you never never try to play on PC ?

ps : sorry for my bad english, i'm french ^^"

[Akiyama]

This (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/898-PS2-Limitations-What-are-Rumors-What-is-Truth) and (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/770-PS2-Limitations...) all (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/899-Using-Streaming-to-bypass-PS2-Limits) the (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1035-A-cause-de-la-PS2-les-gros-addon-FFXI-c-est-finit) others (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/792-FFXI%E3%80%80-PS2%E2%86%92PS3).

Elmer's Poll does show results, but it doesn't cover the entire player base, only those who took said poll. Like the article says, many players, especially in the non-Japanese regions, would like to see support for the PS2 version discontinued and the abundance of threads from all regions support this view. For a problem that, everyone must admit, the XI Development Team brought to everyone's attention - I'm pretty sure they full well know of this issue. And in terms of game development not only is it creating difficulties for them but it's also holding back on features that the team may want to develop but cannot, however it's likely that the decision to discontinue PS2 support is a big one that the development team may not be able to make themselves. They have the numbers of subscribers using PS2, we can start polls and produce articles but we don't have the official numbers.

If anything, I'm sure the development team would like to solve this problem too. All these threads that are just asking for the PS2 version to be discontinued without any suggestions (not that we as players can give many as this is on the technical development level) are just giving them less time to read new ideas that they don't already know about.

[EvangelusFFXI]

So, no new addon on the way ... no new zone ... no new job ... and no auto translate element (lol) ...

[Dreimar]

Long time ago, there was a game called Ultima Online (well some shard prolly still exsist :P ).
Origin Soft. made a 2.0 version with a totally new look - "flying camera" 2D to 3D !! zomg -
The huge restyle and bad " luck " got Richard Garriot ,Origin founder, kicked and the house dead body, sold.
But SquareEnix its a big name and the videogame market its by far bigger than the 90'... cannot happen again!! :P

[PizzaTheHut]

Long time ago, there was a game called Ultima Online (well some shard prolly still exsist :P ).
Origin Soft. made a 2.0 version with a totally new look - "flying camera" 2D to 3D !! zomg -
The huge restyle and bad " luck " got Richard Garriot ,Origin founder, kicked and the house dead body, sold.
But SquareEnix its a big name and the videogame market its by far bigger than the 90'... cannot happen again!! :P


Lol I still have a brand new unopened copy of Ultima in a storage box somewhere maybe I should Ebay it for hundreds :rolleyes:

[Dreimar]

Lol I still have a brand new unopened copy of Ultima in a storage box somewhere maybe I should Ebay it for hundreds :rolleyes:

/em panic ! Say the Prize!!
( ofcourse i want that "whm" deliverying it to me :Q_ )

[HFX7686]

Come on, maybe it's time to break this?
FFXI death because of PS2 version ...

look at this please :

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3113

Push FFXI in 2.0 version full windows pc developpement, and enjoy !

I think it would be great for the game to get a graphics overhaul. If they insist on keeping PS2, just do it for the PC, Xbox, and PS3 players.


Another to report for flaming. It's not going anywhere give it up. Theirs already a bunch of selfish posts in multiple threads. If this is the only reason why you made an account here go back to the dying bg or alla.

Honestly, the only person flaming in this thread is you.

And BG is dying?

[Tezz]

I'm not sure if the cost of converting Ps2 to Ps3 would do a whole lot in the end. FF11 is still a bad game starting out. They need a way to make it a bit more newb friendly with all these adjustments to old areas.

Maybe then it would be worth it if SE thought so.

[Coldbrand]

Sorry but I just don't feel pity for ps2 players at this point. If you can't get a PC that runs FFXI then you probably can't afford the subscription either. Stop holding back the entire rest of the community because you insist on playing on an 11 year old system. I want better than 30 FPS, I want a modern UI, I want to not just see more reskins of the same zones if the 250 area limit is true. You've had 8 years to get a PC or 360 and the cost of a PC that can run this game is probably somewhere in the 150$ range at this point.

[Legomike]

would pay upwards of $40 for a prettier XI i would pay $100 for an official PS3 copy

[katoplepa]

it's because of the PS2 limitations that we'll never see THIS ?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090401054320/ffxi/images/6/63/CompleteWorldMap.jpg

[Kari]

Another to report for flaming. It's not going anywhere give it up. Theirs already a bunch of selfish posts in multiple threads. If this is the only reason why you made an account here go back to the dying bg or alla.

Alla has always sucked. But BG, dying? Lol.
This may hurt your feelings, but regardless of what you say, the day that FFXI does die, one of the primary causes will be the PS2 service continuing to the end.

As far as people saying they'd pay for an upgrade in graphics, there's absolutely no point for them to allow you to purchase such a thing.
Once the files have been bought by one person, they will be immediately leaked for anyone and everyone to use.
Unless SE plans on revamping POL hardcore [AKA, never.], there's no way to prevent anyone from just using the new files.

Before it's release, I always hoped FFXIV would be the new FFXI with better graphics. We all know now, that was a false hope. It may not have flopped if it was true, though.

[EvangelusFFXI]

it's because of the PS2 limitations that we'll never see THIS ?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090401054320/ffxi/images/6/63/CompleteWorldMap.jpg

wohhh oO , what this?

[Emissary]

Keep in mind the issue is not upgrading the game, but alienating the client base.

Shutting down support for a PS2 version of the game would removing some players only means of playing the game and result in a loss of players and revenue (how much depends on the figures of course).

Performing a system-wide graphics upgrade after the PS2 is removed would jeopardize many current PC players. This game runs on practically any computer right now and that's a huge benefit. You cannot simply look at PS2 vs PC player stats - you would need to know how many people play the game on net-top boxes (ITX systems and even atom/ion systems run FFXI perfectly and are a more affordable solution than a new rig or auction-purchasing a PS2), how many play the game through virtual machines (linux/mac), how many people play the game on older laptops or desktops that can't even power a new graphics card.

A graphics upgrade would be nice, for sure, but think of it this way... how many "general" computer users would be upset if Microsoft came out and upgraded MineSweeper (on all versions of windows) to an all-out HD awesomeness game that only a 16 core, 48gb RAM, latest gen graphics card could handle?

If you place consumers in a position where they must upgrade a system to continue playing a game they have been able to play for 9 years, they are either going to quit playing or they will upgrade their system and start playing newer games. It's an overall loss to the player base in any real analysis and that's devastating to MMOs.

[EvangelusFFXI]

Ok your right, but ... that's mean no New addon in futur, just some history like moogle or shantoto adventure ... in same zone, always and always ;_;

[Rezeak]

You can't go by those numbers for PS2 because u needed a PC to fill in that survey the only real fair way to find out is ask a random set of pple ingame.

I'm pretty sure there is a pretty large proportion of ps2 gamers in japan that still use a ps2 for FFXI. (i would guess 10-20% of all ffxi user use a ps2 one way or another).

As for FFXI in HD remake i'd say no thx because honestly it's a redicuolus idea the number of man hour to reskin every zone would be insane to the point you could probably have them create a new set of zones.

Honestly we really don't know what problems the ps2 is causing and so far I've seen no problems except the auto translate which is fine as it is nothing they could add to would allow me to communicate that much better lol.

[JouriStarz]

Honestly you can't make everyone happy. Yes people may quit if they dropped support for PS2 which in my opinion is something that should be done if it would greatly benefit the game overall. People have quit due to lots of changes before, I saw many people quit because of the level cap raise, but new players have always come in.

Another thing is that PC players shouldn't have to be affected if they decided to revamp the graphics. They could always make it optional so you don't HAVE to have a high end PC just to play the game.

[Unaisis]

Either way <droping the ps2 or not> FF11 wont die >.>;;;

[Wint]

Another thing is that PC players shouldn't have to be affected if they decided to revamp the graphics. They could always make it optional so you don't HAVE to have a high end PC just to play the game.

Exactly, make it a paid upgrade, just like Abyssea or the other expansions that you buy and have activated.

To Rezeak, I don't think the reskinning would take as long as you think.

[Miiyo]

Notice these server merges? This is the result of people leaving. So that's one source of decline. Decrease in sales. Killing off a good percentage of players to upgrade when you're not SURE how it'll affect longevity, not smart. Still, it's a second source of decline. No company will willingly add a reason for their paying customers to stop paying.

Charging to pay for a massive upgrade would cover production costs, but, it won't cover the people you loss as well as the people who can't afford the upgrade. The only way the game could be upgraded is if they made a bigger hard drive for the ps2. If they can't afford to play on pc or xbox, what's the chance they'll have the money to purchase a new hard drive? This is why 14 was created. It's hard but we'll eventually have to let XI go. Fear not, SE makes their mistakes since they are human, but they like money, so FFXIV will be great (i think it's just "good" right now).

[Mirage]

Keep in mind the issue is not upgrading the game, but alienating the client base.

Shutting down support for a PS2 version of the game would removing some players only means of playing the game and result in a loss of players and revenue (how much depends on the figures of course).

I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that 90% or more of the people playing it on PS2 have a computer capable of running FF11, even with a few more additions to the game that could be put in after the PS2 support was dropped.



Performing a system-wide graphics upgrade after the PS2 is removed would jeopardize many current PC players. This game runs on practically any computer right now and that's a huge benefit. You cannot simply look at PS2 vs PC player stats - you would need to know how many people play the game on net-top boxes (ITX systems and even atom/ion systems run FFXI perfectly and are a more affordable solution than a new rig or auction-purchasing a PS2), how many play the game through virtual machines (linux/mac), how many people play the game on older laptops or desktops that can't even power a new graphics card.

A graphics upgrade would be nice, for sure, but think of it this way... how many "general" computer users would be upset if Microsoft came out and upgraded MineSweeper (on all versions of windows) to an all-out HD awesomeness game that only a 16 core, 48gb RAM, latest gen graphics card could handle?

This is a bit of a straw-man. The truth is that FF11 runs in an extremely inefficient way, and even computers with onboard graphics solutions would see an increase in performance if they made the game not render practically everything using the CPU. Keeping options to let players keep using the current level of graphics, but optimizing the game for how PCs actually work, would benefit even players with Intel "Extreme" Graphics. It could allow them to display more character models before they saw a decrease in framerate, for example.



If you place consumers in a position where they must upgrade a system to continue playing a game they have been able to play for 9 years, they are either going to quit playing or they will upgrade their system and start playing newer games. It's an overall loss to the player base in any real analysis and that's devastating to MMOs.

more strawmen. No one is arguing that the game should be so overhauled that it wouldn't run on old hardware. As far as I'm concerned, I just want options for real antialiasing, better texture filtering, better and more realistic shadows and lighting effects, uncapped framerate, and allowing the GPU to actually accelerate the rendering of the game, allowing me to get 60 fps at a crowded auction house with 8x AA without my PC even breaking a sweat.

Choosing to not use these settings would allow old PCs to run - it at worst - like they do today. At best, better.

[Firesped]

I think SE should develop a PS3 version to replace the PS2 version. I don't know about other regions, but in North America, you can't even get a PS2 with a hard drive unless you buy a refurbished unit. And even then the only game that even came with and used the hard drive was the original release of FFXI.
So the real question is would a PS3 native client, which people would have to go out and buy, be cost effective.

[Nightshade]

The best you'll ever see in dropping PS2 support is FFXI-2: Same world, same mecanic, same initial content, stand-alone. Maybe if you're nice, they will support account backward compatibility to port your character.

In software, the rule of thumb is that minimal spec cannot be altered regardless of how many patches have been made for a software. If you want to change the minimal spec, you must make a new release. Those who doesn't normally follow that rule usually have conflicts with customer.

Don't expect PS2 being dropped and hope for a stand-alone remake.

Also, courtesy normally wants the developer to implement backward compatibilty for the users to keep what is already gained but from there on, the new release can no longer interact with the old.

[Rambus]

Be nice to have more offical servays like that, but if PS2 users are really that low its time to cut thee ties to it.

[Alhanelem]

FFXI death, PS2 fault?


Yes, it is.

[Shewp]

Yes, it is.

Yep. The PS2 is like having a giant fat person chained on top of you, it really limits where you can go. Set us free SE!

[Emissary]

I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that 90% or more of the people playing it on PS2 have a computer capable of running FF11, even with a few more additions to the game that could be put in after the PS2 support was dropped.



This is a bit of a straw-man. The truth is that FF11 runs in an extremely inefficient way, and even computers with onboard graphics solutions would see an increase in performance if they made the game not render practically everything using the CPU. Keeping options to let players keep using the current level of graphics, but optimizing the game for how PCs actually work, would benefit even players with Intel "Extreme" Graphics. It could allow them to display more character models before they saw a decrease in framerate, for example.



more strawmen. No one is arguing that the game should be so overhauled that it wouldn't run on old hardware. As far as I'm concerned, I just want options for real antialiasing, better texture filtering, better and more realistic shadows and lighting effects, uncapped framerate, and allowing the GPU to actually accelerate the rendering of the game, allowing me to get 60 fps at a crowded auction house with 8x AA without my PC even breaking a sweat.

Choosing to not use these settings would allow old PCs to run - it at worst - like they do today. At best, better.

If they have a computer at all, they likely can run FFXI before a graphics change - I agree. That doesn't mean those people with a PS2 would want to run it on their computer though. The PS2 version was released well after the PC version and required both a conscious choice and significantly more money for players to choose that route. My gut feeling is that most people that chose to play on the PS2 chose that because it was on a console not on a PC. So regardless of whether they could run it elsewhere, that may not be the issue. They would probably just quit instead.

You can force the game (at least with NVIDIA cards because I used to do it) to run gorgeously by manually tweaking the rendering settings (both in the registry for FFXI and in the control panel for the card - it takes a good day of playing around with it to get it the way you want, but it can be done). It does not impact the issue of lag when trying to render several models in a town, but neither will any general graphics overhaul. That would be a larger rewrite involving the forced limitations on bandwidth and threads. You cannot download data directly to the graphics card and all MMOs slow in crowded areas for that same reason (the framerate drops in all cases because of memory and CPU limitations not GPU ones - happens in WoW and CoH which both have better graphics and much nice graphic engines).

What would get better? The limitation on textures and unique models. You would have a simple UI checkbox instead of having to trick the graphics card into forcing the settings. They could increase the bandwidth and optimize the data packets without having to adhere to the PS2 limitations/requirements (that would reduce the CPU usage and let you more intelligently pass it to the GPU). FFXI will run on dial-up at the same level of play as T1 - the forced bandwidth kills loading more than the graphics. That's a rewrite of key components to the game engine and a complete remake of the rendering engine (they have to come off directx 8 - the change to 9 would be reasonable, the change to 10 or 11 would be an enormous undertaking). Those are two huge cost and time syncs alone, not to mention almost all the models and textures in the game having to be redone (the largest area of cost in all gaming) - because if they don't update the models and textures at the same time, then the overall effect will be no different than you telling your graphics card to ramp the anti-aliasing before it hits the screen.

A few million dollars in changes to a game that doesn't have a player base to support that level of commitment ESPECIALLY after they just lost millions of dollars of expected revenue for creating a new MMO that did exactly that type of change but failed horribly. Of course it didn't fail because of its graphics - you do have to give it credit for being beautiful. :) But if I were an executive at Square, I would kind of being watching the wallets right now and pushing a complete overhaul of FFXI would not make the list.

So let's consider a middle-of-the-road solution. You still spend around a million, you drop PS2 support, and you push for 5 year old technology instead of 10 year old technology. You lose 15% of your player base. You attract no new players because there still isn't a PS3 version and the graphics are still dated by any modern standard. It's a net loss to the company for development and a loss of fixed revenue to boot.

I'm not really dismissing your arguments - they are very good points, but it can't be done halfway at this point - we're talking bigger than just an upgrade. I just don't see a path that doesn't cause them to lose money (on a large scale). What they can count on though is the people that are still playing today are probably going keep playing a while longer even if there are no changes to the engine. Stable is always better than risky in the global financial environment we're stuck in right now.

Had FF14 brought the numbers they were expecting, I don't think we would even be having this discussion. I think you would have seen an engine update to FFXI and dropping PS2 support. Now... maybe in another year or two? hard to say.

[Hotsume]

You make an excellent point. I only wish it wasn't true.

[Myew]

@Emissary
"The PS2 version was released well after the PC version "
I am sure you actually meant the reverse. The PC version was always planned and was released only 6 months after the PS2 version. People knew there would be a PC release before the game even came out. The only reason the numbers of PS2 players in Japan is relatively high is simply because it was released on the PS2 first. In NA, it was released on the PC first with a 5 month delay for the PS2 version. (Due to Sony pushing back the HDD release date)

Your technical knowledge is limited at best and full of hyperbole. Changing the registry settings would take 5 minutes at most. It doesn't matter what graphics card manufacturer you are using as long as it isn't older than a PS2. And the graphics pipeline is not the issue when it comes to slow down. (Sole exception being the Conflux crystals)

What would change. The real issue here isn't graphics, but system memory. The PS2 is sporting only 32M of RAM. Your damn phone has more memory than this. Everything you have immediate access to needs to be loaded into RAM. This means ever job, ability, spell, inventory, equipment, global model, auto-translate definitions, etc all need to be existing simultaneously. The wizards at SE have been doing a marvelous job finding ways to fit more and more into this memory chunk. They are mostly out now. If they increased the minimum memory footprint then they would be able to add more areas, jobs, etc. This would of course mean they have to drop PS2 support in order to do the increase.

[Kennocha]

Eve online throughout its life cycle has dropped support for older and older hardware raising the minimum required to play without much negativity. The problem is announcing the change ahead of time, then slowly phasing it in.

Saying it can't be done, is not entirely truthful.

[Draylo]

Please remove ps2 support.. this game will thrive from that :)

[Dreimar]

@Emissary
"The PS2 version was released well after the PC version "
I am sure you actually meant the reverse. The PC version was always planned and was released only 6 months after the PS2 version. People knew there would be a PC release before the game even came out. The only reason the numbers of PS2 players in Japan is relatively high is simply because it was released on the PS2 first. In NA, it was released on the PC first with a 5 month delay for the PS2 version. (Due to Sony pushing back the HDD release date)

Your technical knowledge is limited at best and full of hyperbole. Changing the registry settings would take 5 minutes at most. It doesn't matter what graphics card manufacturer you are using as long as it isn't older than a PS2. And the graphics pipeline is not the issue when it comes to slow down. (Sole exception being the Conflux crystals)

What would change. The real issue here isn't graphics, but system memory. The PS2 is sporting only 32M of RAM. Your damn phone has more memory than this. Everything you have immediate access to needs to be loaded into RAM. This means ever job, ability, spell, inventory, equipment, global model, auto-translate definitions, etc all need to be existing simultaneously. The wizards at SE have been doing a marvelous job finding ways to fit more and more into this memory chunk. They are mostly out now. If they increased the minimum memory footprint then they would be able to add more areas, jobs, etc. This would of course mean they have to drop PS2 support in order to do the increase.

I agree.
We just need to know how many PS2 active accounts chain us to the past :\
Anyone know if there a way to know Official percentage of accounts repartition ?
or SE just wont let anyone know ?

[bungiefan]

That's a hard thing to count anyway, since any account can log in on any platform. I switch between JP PS2, NA PS2, and NA PC with my JP account from PS2 launch. What sort of user would I be counted as? I prefer PS2, and use it most of the time for stability, and run it on a second monitor next to my computer so I can have a wiki up or something.

[Apocalypse]

Like SE have mentioned before and will say that again.. will keep support PS2.. so if you guys dont like PS2"s limitation or feel that PS2 is holding you back.. then you can just quit playing and problem solved :p

[Ryuusuke]

They will support the ps2 but to what end. in this point in its life cycle I believe they will be forced to eventually or we will have to stop getting more updates for the game. SE has already taken the steps of completly cutting off making copies of any version of ffxi for the ps2. and it would be simple to just release on the ps3 and memory issues would be solved. than they would be able to do alot of things people have wanted and some would say needed for years. like being able to go over a 80 item inventory limit. or our current issues of not being able to add new auto translate. They have made so many leaps to evolve this game to a new level but the ps2 in my opinion is holding back the potential we could see out of final fantasy 11

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The bigger issue is that SE tried to dump FFXI for FFXIV and failed, now they're scrambling to try and figure out how to cover their assess.

[Crocker]

Here's a good reason to drop support for the PS2 sony dropped support to this game by making the PS2 without the Hard Drive.

Port the game to PS3 it wouldn't be hard since they have a 360 version and give a free or reasonably cheap Digital download and/or a free upgrade to the PC version via Steam.

Why continue to support a system that's out of date by many years? Only thing I can think of is some sort of contract stating as long as sony supports the PS2 in anyway (making new games and actual systems) SE must continue to support the PS2.
If that's true the contract should be void now since the new PS2 are unable to support FFXI.

Simple stuff like auto translate why not update it for PC/360 only (since there 3 separate downloads anyways) and any new words added in the auto translate PS2 users would see something like {PS2 Limitations} or {word not found} or {???}

[Runespider]

The main point is, do you really think dropping ps2 support and evolving the game will bring in new players. I dunno if it will, losing 6% (probably a lot more) of your playerbase for no reason makes no sense to anyone.

If they really pushed a ps3 version and then upgraded everything that would work but it depends if the they think the effort is worthwhile.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Here's a good reason to drop support for the PS2 sony dropped support to this game by making the PS2 without the Hard Drive.It's actualy surprisingly easy to crack open the PS2 and pop in as big of a HDD you want.

[Laraul]

Please take a look at this retrospective of FFXI (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-viii-final-fantasy/24494)...

Take a look at all the other games Square has produced (including FFXIV). And tell me, does the platform matter?

[katoplepa]

Unfortunately, I don't think that dropping PS2 will bring new players... the game is still old, by now over the 90% of active players are veterans, who are playing this game from 7/8 years and still love it, and keep playing it because they love it, so SE knows that they keep playing it anyway ... dropping PS2 is our dream because we think SE will add more regions, more stuffs to do and so on, but we don't know if SE will do it for real even if they drop PS2 support... they had lost millions in FFXIV and are trying to fix it, I hope but I don't think SE will introduce huge contents in the future, even without the PS2 limitations...

[Wade]

but we don't know if SE will do it for real even if they drop PS2 support...

I think this could be very true. Just because they drop PS2 support, doesn't necessarily mean, that they are all of a sudden going to release all kinds of new stuff. Plus, I'm not sure they would purposely want to dismiss paying customers.

[Trangnai]

Ok, so let me get this straight, your telling me that SE should drop support of a platform that is still holding alot of there players in there primary market and do a Graphics and UI change that would of course cost money for production and manhours SE more then likely dosent want to spend on a game this old.

not to mention that but to accompany a full graphics change SE would probably have to re-model the engine thought it would probably add some new feel that we all need. Noone likes fighting inside mobs thats target area is smaller then there body.

Any PS2 capable PS3 supports this game, SONY released the tools for it, the same people you claim dropped support for the HD by releasing a cheeper system. At least at the time of this release SE was still supporting PS2 releases of the game. All that aside. Take the fact that most traditional MMOs never see a huge overhaul of graphics, but sometimes may see a few UI changes but nothing to big.

However I do propose this, SE make a poll accessable thought playonline veiwer asking simple questions referring to this already well over-discussed topic. To enusre they don't lose there player base this is quite possibly the best course of action. However, as long as this game is released on consoles, it will become limited overtime, in some way shape or form. due to the nature of the current gen consoles however, that may last long enough to prolong the life of the game to the point where its inevitable. However if we want to see new expansions and content, this is the only course of action. but due to the general ease of the game now and the fact that the level increase and such is pretty much over, I honestly do not think SE plans on releasing new expansion/add-on content.

As for me, I don't have the best specs on my PC, i play the PS2 version on my PS3, i would play the 360 version but due to the many bugs in that version of the game and the lack of wifi in my xbox (I'm not paying $70-80 for an adapter when all the other systems and the new slim have it built in) I do not.

[tlaloc]

The main point is, do you really think dropping ps2 support and evolving the game will bring in new players. I dunno if it will, losing 6% (probably a lot more) of your playerbase for no reason makes no sense to anyone.

If they really pushed a ps3 version and then upgraded everything that would work but it depends if the they think the effort is worthwhile.

how about losing the other 94% whom might stay for another 9 levels (thats like what? 4-6 hrs in abbysea?) and then realize they have very little left to do because there is no new content or areas to explore

[Dymlos]

Sooner or later SE will have to make a decision when PS2 is no longer viable: drop PS2 support, or terminate FFXI in whole. Just put that in the back of your mind when the PS2 has reached its limit.

[JagerForrester]

Sooner or later SE will have to make a decision when PS2 is no longer viable: drop PS2 support, or terminate FFXI in whole. Just put that in the back of your mind when the PS2 has reached its limit.

That's what I'm saying! SE, find some incentive for the PS2 users to be willing to stop using the old platform. I wish I could help you figure that out, but pushing the limit isn't working. I was a PS2 player two years ago; I'm PC now. Telling me there were PS2 limitations was incentive enough for me. I'm ready for you to terminate the use of the PS2 for FFXI as soon as you can convince the other PS2 players to do the same.

[Miiyo]

FFXI is a great previous gen game. It will remain that way. FFXIV is and will be an amazing next gen game. The game is ahead of the curve. WAYYYYYY ahead. Costs a bit to build or buy a pc that can run it. By the time that price goes down and such graphics and technology is standard, FFXIV will be comfortably close to perfection. To run a company you have to have the vision to look forward to the future just as much as you learn from your past. You guys can dream all you want, but SE is a company of progression. Why rebuild an outdated game when you can take your knowledge and experience and create something better with more potential?

[cidbahamut]

Why rebuild an outdated game when you can take your knowledge and experience and create something better with more potential?
Because the result of that process has proven to be something I'd rather not play, while FFXI by contrast is still very appealing and has plenty of untapped potential.

[Hotsume]

Because the result of that process has proven to be something I'd rather not play, while FFXI by contrast is still very appealing and has plenty of untapped potential.

Couldn't have said it better. FFXIV is a major step backwards from XI. I'd prefer that they just work with a game that's already good.

[Meyi]

There are some terms that can be deleted/shrank to make room for basic translations.

For example, all of the Dynamis zones could be removed, the term "Dynamis" added, and then the term "Abyssea " added.

It's difficult when zones and weaponskills/abilties/spells cannot be translated.

Perhaps they could make auto-translator like they did with the mog satchel and mog sack. Perhaps whatever the current auto-translator is sitting on could be like our "inventory"... and others can coexist side-by-side?

There has to be a way to work around it. SE is intelligent, I'm sure they'll think of something!

[Shewp]

They could do so much if they drop the PS2- they could update the graphics/port the game onto the Crystal Tools engine and anything becomes possible. After 9 years this game still has huge potential, mainly because the PS2 has been holding it back since the beginning.

[Miiyo]

Because the result of that process has proven to be something I'd rather not play, while FFXI by contrast is still very appealing and has plenty of untapped potential.

Did you see the beginning of FFXI? Granted, SE should've done a lot better with FFXIV's release, but the beginning of any mmo, that you're trying to bring new elements, will be rocky. The game is much better now than it was to start, and will continue to get better. Just like FFXI. I like Yoshi-P (the new director) I have faith he and his team shall do the game justice.

[Miiyo]

There are some terms that can be deleted/shrank to make room for basic translations.

For example, all of the Dynamis zones could be removed, the term "Dynamis" added, and then the term "Abyssea " added.

It's difficult when zones and weaponskills/abilties/spells cannot be translated.

Perhaps they could make auto-translator like they did with the mog satchel and mog sack. Perhaps whatever the current auto-translator is sitting on could be like our "inventory"... and others can coexist side-by-side?

There has to be a way to work around it. SE is intelligent, I'm sure they'll think of something!


I like your signature. I'm gonna steal that concept of the gear you have/want to get. :D

[Ryuusuke]

actually yes I did see the early early stages of final fantasy 11 and granted it needed some work. but it was still a solid game that could hold my attention and was fun though incredibly though to get through

[katoplepa]

actually yes I did see the early early stages of final fantasy 11 and granted it needed some work. but it was still a solid game that could hold my attention and was fun though incredibly though to get through

in the beginning , XI was yet a great game and even if it needed some adjustments, it was already a good game and in fact XI won prizes and awards from its first appearance... not with XIV

[Miiyo]

in the beginning , XI was yet a great game and even if it needed some adjustments, it was already a good game and in fact XI won prizes and awards from its first appearance... not with XIV

That would be because FFXIV can only improved in graphics. You can add a few different things to do, but basically, it's an mmo. Everyone's caught up and they're all the same at the core. Quest, level up, fight stuff, and try to have the best gear. SE's presentation has always been great so people are used to seeing games come out that look great. So by now, of course no one will be wowed. FFXIV looks amazing. It's what we expected. We saw it in 13. We'll continue to see it.

[Chiibi]

wait so you're asking se to remove ps2 usage from a ps2 game... *tilts head*

[cidbahamut]

wait so you're asking se to remove ps2 usage from a ps2 game... *tilts head*

More like asking them to remove a platform from a mulit-platform game so they can rework the engine to foster a richer gaming experience for the playerbase.

[chrism]

I agree.. the Old PS2 has become obsolete.. Its not even being sold in stores anymore unless you got some old school video game store near you that actually stock piles the big old versions of PS2.. Now a days its just slim ps2s with no room for the hard drive.. More players are using a PC and Xbox360 compared to the PS2... I say start a thread finding out who all is actually playing FF11 using a PS2, PC and xbox360 and I am almost 99% sure that the numbers for PC and Xbox360 will be higher than that of PS2 users playing FF11... I say down with the PS2 limitations :)

[Chiibi]

...isnt that what ff14 is for?

[Miiyo]

...isnt that what ff14 is for?
Exactly. Some still want an updated Vana'diel though. I can understand but it's not going to happen unless player base doubles or triples.

[cidbahamut]

...isnt that what ff14 is for?

No. FFXIV and FFXI are only superficially similar.

[Urteil]

No pity, get rid of PS2.

[Urteil]

...isnt that what ff14 is for?

Have you played FF14? Its ***.

Why would you wish that on anyone, your logic is antiquated as that game is terrible.

[Juri_Licious]

Down with the PS2, onward to greatness of this outdated relic of a system!
Real updates, REAL POWER!

[TearValerin]

Come on, maybe it's time to break this?
FFXI death because of PS2 version ...

look at this please :

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3113

Push FFXI in 2.0 version full windows pc developpement, and enjoy !

Reported -_-; these stupid wastes of threads need to go away...

[NightDagger]

Sorry but I just don't feel pity for ps2 players at this point. If you can't get a PC that runs FFXI then you probably can't afford the subscription either. Stop holding back the entire rest of the community because you insist on playing on an 11 year old system. I want better than 30 FPS, I want a modern UI, I want to not just see more reskins of the same zones if the 250 area limit is true. You've had 8 years to get a PC or 360 and the cost of a PC that can run this game is probably somewhere in the 150$ range at this point.

try playing a game that is not 9 years old then. Go play WoW or FFXIV. Maybe you need to just stop thinking that FFXI was made for the PC player, It was for the console gamers & I hope the never drop the PS2 support. Even if all the PC players leave the game & we have only 1 server left I would be happy that SE did not resort to bad business.

Get over yourself & stop thinking Se will stop with PS2 cause it will NEVER happen.

[NightDagger]

Reported -_-; these stupid wastes of threads need to go away...

Reported -_-; these stupid wastes of posts need to go away...

[Coldbrand]

try playing a game that is not 9 years old then. Go play WoW or FFXIV. Maybe you need to just stop thinking that FFXI was made for the PC player, It was for the console gamers & I hope the never drop the PS2 support. Even if all the PC players leave the game & we have only 1 server left I would be happy that SE did not resort to bad business.

Get over yourself & stop thinking Se will stop with PS2 cause it will NEVER happen.

Actually I'll keep playing the game I payed for that I've been playing on PC the entire time since US launch. The point of paying for a subscription based game is so that it'll change and get better, and now in order for that to continue the junky little console system that's been holding it back needs to go. Don't like it? Deal with it. I'll continue to voice my opinion alongside others until we get a reaction from Squaresoft.

[Angelsasuke]

I didnt readf the whole thread so if someone already said this im sorry, but did anyone realize ps2 limitations mostly is the HDD space, instead of tryin to work players outta the game. Why not convince sony to release a way to upgrade to a bigger HDD or maybe SE to develope something that will make a normal external/internal of a bigger size usable.

[Ilax]

Exactly. Some still want an updated Vana'diel though. I can understand but it's not going to happen unless player base doubles or triples.

Funny you say that because even if FF14 is lol-free FFXI have probably 20x more player base, and the good news is SE making money out of it, can't say much about FF14.

Also note is only 8% that still play on PS2... That would cost everyone only 24$ each to make SE ship them a free computer. that a big 2$/month for a year to revive FFXI.

[Rambus]

HDD and ram...

new comp? why not ps3?

[Ilax]

HDD and ram...

new comp? why not ps3?

Because 2011 should be planed to kill PS2/PS3 (8%) (2$/month)
2012 should be planed to kill Xbox. (8%) (2$/month again)

Get out console, enough holding. 2013 should be completely free of console.

Keep i mind at the moment 84% of FFXI player already use PC... (not console)

Edit: Hmmm, almost forget to say, those 16%(console), i bet you anything 90% of them have access to a PC that is by far enough to play FFXI.

[Gratinao]

Want to have people stop using PS2 it vary easy start adding new zones for PC and Xbox 360. That is one for the reason I play on PC only now. My CD ROM drive on my PS2 died and I can't install WoTG. I can still use it to play in all Older zone. Some PS2 players might quit do to not being able to play new addons some would stay with what they have and other would say ok its time to upgrade from this 10 year old thing.

[Laotzu]

Maybe a Player Referendum, Poll or Survey into some of the topics we've seen posted would be a good idea. It would be great to see SE asking everyones opinion on the state of the game and could clear up what needs to be done to keep players happy and playing the game.

Like a poll through PlayOnline or something to ask whether the players think removal of PS2 support would be a good idea, what sort of content expansion there should be (reusing zones for better gameplay or to make newer, better looking stuff) and about game balance.

Allowing people to post on the forums is good to get ideas to put towards development but it's not a good indication of popular thought on the matters. Not everyone will take the time to make a long post on why they think this is a good idea or a bad idea but with a system to vote on topics, they could get a broader idea of people for or against, using forums to get a better idea on the changes that players want done.

[Ilax]

Why i have feeling 84% would be up for it and 8%(ps2/ps3) against it and 8% (lol-xbox) unsure about this because they see same thing coming for them (eventually).

[Laotzu]

Why i have feeling 84% would be up for it and 8%(ps2/ps3) against it and 8% (lol-xbox) unsure about this because they see same thing coming for them (eventually).

I personally think the 360's ability for upgrade potential won't be strained for a long time, if at all within FFXI's lifetime. With PS2's memory being at 32MB compared to the xbox 360's 512MB? (I'm not sure on this number, please correct me if it's wrong) and the size of official, supported HDD options being larger, SE would have to make the game hog more memory and add a ton of new content to fill up the space.

[Twille]

I don't really think dropping PS2 support is an option for SE. Would it allow them to make some improvements to FFXI, of course, but in their eyes I'm quite certain the cost is too high and the gain is too low.

The up side: Improvements to FFXI would realistically only make existing customers a little happy, for a little while, without generating many new customers.
The down side: Lost revenue of customers that don't move over to either PC or 360.

Personally, I think the long-term benefits of dropping PS2 would pay off. SE would theoretically have more options for additional content, and therefore generate income from expansions and such, but who knows. I don't know how many of you have seen the Letter from the Developer they've been doing for FFXIV, but they're putting a considerable amount of effort into re-vamping the game to make it appeal to the masses. FFXI is never going to get that type of attention, it's simply too old.

Would I like to see PS2 support dropped for the possibility of a better FFXI? I would. Do I think it will actually happen? Sadly, no.

[Ilax]

I personally think the 360's ability for upgrade potential won't be strained for a long time, if at all within FFXI's lifetime. With PS2's memory being at 32MB compared to the xbox 360's 512MB? (I'm not sure on this number, please correct me if it's wrong) and the size of official, supported HDD options being larger, SE would have to make the game hog more memory and add a ton of new content to fill up the space.

That true, at least until New hardware come out that allow more complex 3d that xbox360 can't render, but yes technically it would still be awesome to get ride of the 32meg limitation, for xbox360 i agree it gonna take a while before it cause real issue.

[Ilax]

The down side: Lost revenue of customers that don't move over to either PC or 360.

How about the Lost revenue of customers that find the game boring? I think is fair to say is already the case with all those content that SE dupe/recycle...

How about the Lost revenue of customers that choose WoW instead because graphic is more amazing?

Who say anyway those 8% would totally quit playing? If SE announce i need buy a new computer, trust me i would not quit, i would upgrade, i be piss off maybe, but i doubt i would rage quit because of it.

Also how many of these 8% don't have access to a computer?

[Twille]

How about the Lost revenue of customers that choose WoW instead because graphic is more amazing?
FFXI and WOW have both been around long enough that any significant change over has already occurred, or so I would think. Though it is a valid concern. I'd love to see the game improve, the question is, how much of their profit margin is SE willing to lose in order to do it?


Who say anyway those 8% would totally quit playing?
Nobody did. It's not outside the realm of possibility to imagine that some customers would move over to either PC or 360, and that other customers would simply quit. You can't expect 100% of the PS2 player base to return to the game by other means, it's highly unlikely, and would therefore mean a loss of revenue.[?QUOTE]


If SE announce i need buy a new computer, trust me i would not quit, i would upgrade, i be piss off maybe, but i doubt i would rage quit because of it.
How many other people would say this same thing? SE has no way of knowing. It's a gamble, one that I doubt SE wants to take right now.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see improvements to the game which PS2 is holding us back from, I just don't think SE is willing to do it.

[nobodyhere]

ps2 is like a hole in a boat eventually it gonna sink it so better try to stop being so sensitive about ps2 players most ps2 dont even read disc anymore.
im tired of playing a graphicless game remove ps2 offer ps2 player a insentive to switch to pc or xbox 360

[Ilax]

I mean look at WoW as i said in another post, they adding hardcore content while SE reducing the difficulty in FFXI, i am serious all this smell bad, smell like SE will sink if they continue in that direction, well they still have FF14 to get back on market, to me that is a real gamble because is really not a good start. To be honest sometime i wonder if Blizzard did not add more hardcore content in response of FFXI decreasing difficulty, all i know is they now have best graphic, casual content and now hardcore content as well, i doubt i ever end to play that game, but i wont be surprise if some do the switch, of course since FFXI decreased the difficulty some might switch from WoW to FFXI, but hey guess they feeling when they see limitation....

Also if you look at blizzard they are releasing Diablo III soon, that also might hurt SE, is really time SE do something.

[jeffanddane]

God Pizza if you don't support this then you must like playing games with no potential. Maybe thats something you and the ps2 have in common <3

[NightDagger]

Why i have feeling 84% would be up for it and 8%(ps2/ps3) against it and 8% (lol-xbox) unsure about this because they see same thing coming for them (eventually).

not a chance this game will surpass Xbox's limitations. The game hardly requires anything to run as of right now & making some adjustments would improve the game for sure but not make the xbox hold back any further upgrades. the game will be long dead & the xbox 720 will be out before that would even matter. I have 250GB HDD on my 36 & they do have 512MB Ram GDRAM I believe. Which is enough to run this games for anything they could think of doing.

[Mirage]

What does GDRAM even mean?

[chrism]

Another to report for flaming. It's not going anywhere give it up. Theirs already a bunch of selfish posts in multiple threads. If this is the only reason why you made an account here go back to the dying bg or alla.


Dont report him for flaming how about we report you for saying hes flaming gosh its post like this that make it seem like hes flaming or trolling or whatever you wanna call it when hes stating a reasonable arguement.. ugh some people I swear. Apparently Freedom of speech doesn't exist within the USA anymore.

[Yarly]

What does GDRAM even mean?
I believe he meant GDDR which is just graphics ddr ram

[NightDagger]

What does GDRAM even mean?

Graphic Dynamic Random Access Memory

Same thing as GDDR

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I believe he meant GDDR which is just graphics ddr ramI thought he was swearing at the RAM. lol

[Mirage]

Right.

Well anyway, the XB360 has got 512MB total RAM, which is 256 MB VRAM and 256 MB system RAM. The 360 can however use the VRAM as it would use system RAM, if needed, so it's sort of a dynamic allocation based on what you need. It would make sense that the VRAM is GDDR at least, not sure about the system RAM.

Considering the FF11 graphics don't exactly need a lot of VRAM, i would imagine the game would get access to probably around 400-450 MB RAM. Gotta remember the OS needs a bit of RAM too :p.

And I have never heard anyone call GDDR GDRAM before.

[Zarchery]

That is a totally original thought, and you sir should be applauded for bringing a fresh new perspective to the game.

Sure, maybe the PS2 is the cause. Or maybe it's the game being 9 years old.

[Neofire]

lol at all the senseless posts about dropping ps2 support i'll bet anyone, that SE does not drop ps2 support, lets say 5 mil worth of gil?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

lol at all the senseless posts about dropping ps2 support i'll bet anyone, that SE does not drop ps2 support, lets say 5 mil worth of gil?I'll take that bet.
/signed

[Mirage]

Even if it's unlikely, one can always hope.

Just look at all the other ridiculous ideas people post in the job-specific ideas. 99% of those will never happen either

[NightDagger]

Right.

Well anyway, the XB360 has got 512MB total RAM, which is 256 MB VRAM and 256 MB system RAM. The 360 can however use the VRAM as it would use system RAM, if needed, so it's sort of a dynamic allocation based on what you need. It would make sense that the VRAM is GDDR at least, not sure about the system RAM.

Considering the FF11 graphics don't exactly need a lot of VRAM, i would imagine the game would get access to probably around 400-450 MB RAM. Gotta remember the OS needs a bit of RAM too :p.

And I have never heard anyone call GDDR GDRAM before.

Learnt it in college (Computer Engineering). Was used to specify different types of ram under the same abbreviation. ie. SD, DDR, GD, RD etc..

GD referring to single rate. But the 360 uses GDDR3 so it is able to handle graphics very well for a console, but still way under specs compared to PC.

[Catsby]

It would be nice if the developers conducted and published their own study about this.

[Karala]

I can't believe so many people can actually be for dropping PS2 support. A lot of people I've met in FFXI still play the PS2 version, why would you consider backstabbing a chunk of the userbase like that?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I can't believe so many people can actually be for dropping PS2 support. A lot of people I've met in FFXI still play the PS2 version, why would you consider backstabbing a chunk of the userbase like that?A lot = the vast minority. And aren't they backstabbing the rest of us by holding everyone back?
I'm sorry but much like the "No child left behind" policy, PS2s are hurting all of us in the long run.

[Karala]

A lot = the vast minority. And aren't they backstabbing the rest of us by holding everyone back?
I'm sorry but much like the "No child left behind" policy, PS2s are hurting all of us in the long run.

Nope, the game was likely made with limitations in mind in the first place. It was released on PS2 when it came out, it was definitely intended somewhat on the PS2, and it's wonderful that it's managed to last this long. The game is plenty fun despite any limitations, and from what I've seen, it's managed to make its own advancements just fine. If there's still paying customers playing on the PS2 version, then they shouldn't drop support, and that's that. It's just plain wrong.

[Hotsume]

Nope, the game was likely made with limitations in mind in the first place. It was released on PS2 when it came out, it was definitely intended somewhat on the PS2, and it's wonderful that it's managed to last this long. The game is plenty fun despite any limitations, and from what I've seen, it's managed to make its own advancements just fine. If there's still paying customers playing on the PS2 version, then they shouldn't drop support, and that's that. It's just plain wrong.

It's for the greater good.

[Raka]

A lot = the vast minority. And aren't they backstabbing the rest of us by holding everyone back?
I'm sorry but much like the "No child left behind" policy, PS2s are hurting all of us in the long run.

What do you mean they are backstabbing us?! Everyone is backstabbing everyone! Chaos > Logic! The World will come to an end because the Human race is slowly killing it! Space will once again reign triumphant! Wahahahahahaha!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Now that we've reached those limitaions, that game is at a stand still and people still want more. It's wrong and depremental to hold onto it. Keeping the PS2 will mean the loss of the game, dropping the PS2 only means a very small drop in income for a short period of time. People will adjust after this happens. Without it, we get nothing.

[Karala]

"Great good" is a lie. We won't get nothing, the game is not dead yet. I suppose you'd all like to drop Xbox 360 support, too? Certainly you will once its limits are reached, yes? What about those with weaker PCs? Want to leave them up a creek too? Where will it end?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

"Great good" is a lie. We won't get nothing, the game is not dead yet. I suppose you'd all like to drop Xbox 360 support, too? Certainly you will once its limits are reached, yes? What about those with weaker PCs? Want to leave them up a creek too? Where will it end?The 360 will be able to handle even FFIV for the next 10 year and any PC made in teh last 10 years can support FFXI for the next 10 as well. If the PS2 wasn't holding the game back, these thread would not exist. It's a simple truth that the PS2 is limiting game content as we speak, SE has already admited this.

[Karala]

The 360 will be able to handle even FFIV for the next 10 year and any PC made in teh last 10 years can support FFXI for the next 10 as well. If the PS2 wasn't holding the game back, these thread would not exist. It's a simple truth that the PS2 is limiting game content as we speak, SE has already admited this.

I don't care if it's limiting it, it's not right to drop PS2 support. Not while there's still a significant number of people playing on PS2. It's just plain unethical to betray customers like that. What they should be doing is focus on reducing PS2 players and pushing Xbox 360/PC. Add a PS3 version into the mix as well, if possible. Then you can drop PS2 support when hardly anyone plays on PS2 anymore.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I don't care if it's limiting it, it's not right to drop PS2 support. Not while there's still a significant number of people playing on PS2. It's just plain unethical to betray customers like that.Insignifigant number you mean and the rest of us are the ones being betrayed.
What they should be doing is focus on reducing PS2 players and pushing Xbox 360/PC. Add a PS3 version into the mix as well, if possible. Then you can drop PS2 support when hardly anyone plays on PS2 anymore.Yes a viable solution as well, but the end result is still dropping PS2 support.

[Mirage]

Almost everyone in possession of a PS2 is also in possession of a PC that can handle FF11, and even run it with better graphics than the PS2 can.

And it is easy to connect a gamepad to a PC, and a PC to a TV, if you absolutely need that console feeling.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Almost everyone in possession of a PS2 is also in possession of a PC that can handle FF11, and even run it with better graphics than the PS2 can.

And it is easy to connect a gamepad to a PC, and a PC to a TV, if you absolutely need that console feeling.Yes, very true. All control scemes work on all systems. And there are line outs even for old comuters.

[TribalProphet]

I want to not just see more reskins of the same zones if the 250 area limit is true. You've had 8 years to get a PC or 360 and the cost of a PC that can run this game is probably somewhere in the 150$ range at this point.

The reskins count as zones. Whether or not that ~250 zone limit is still in place (I've heard it may not be anymore), each zone takes a spot in the list, whether it looks like another zone or not.

And for all the people saying for paying customers to spend $150-300 to get a pc "for cheap" that will play this game; Until you put your money where your mouth is and send those PS2 users that $150-300, you don't have a vote. It's easy to say "make others pay more" when you're not the one of the ones being told to pay.

[Karala]

Insignifigant number you mean and the rest of us are the ones being betrayed.Yes a viable solution as well, but the end result is still dropping PS2 support.

Yep, end result is the same, but certainly less aggressive and hopefully easier to swallow for PS2 players.

Also, speaking for myself, I hope dropping Xbox 360 doesn't come for a long time... I haven't updated my PC in a looooooong time, it can't even play the game as it is now. x-x

[Mirage]

Is that because it's less than 700 MHz, or because it's full of malware on a 10 year old windows ME installation? :>

Less aggressive is of course good. Every PS2 user can get a free version of FF11 PC and install it without extra cost, btw. They can log in on any FF11 installation, bought, borrowed or downloaded with their existing account.

If the PS2 users knew many months in advance that it would happen, they would have plenty of time to acquire a copy to install from, patch, and get used to the controls before the PS2 support was killed off.

[Karala]

Because it's a 10 year old low end piece of crap that barely functions as it is, on top of having almost no RAM, and a tiny hard drive. I spend all my money on games, anyways, and that's the way it'll stay.


I had no idea PS2 users could get the PC version free, but I love that they can. That's certainly in the right direction. Certainly announcing a drop months ahead would do well, but how many months are we talking? I'd prefer a year myself, accounting for any issues people might have with obtaining a PC or Xbox to play it on. There are people who game on a budget, with outdated consoles. I've been there most of my life.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Because it's a 10 year old low end piece of crap that barely functions as it is, on top of having almost no RAM, and a tiny hard drive. I spend all my money on games, anyways, and that's the way it'll stay.Are you descibing the PS2 or an old computer? I can't tell. lol

[Mirage]

In 2001, a good PC was around 1.5 GHz, and low end PCs had probably around 1 GHz. Video cards from that age usually had 32 or 64MB RAM. Certain ATI cards had compatibility problems (such as the Radeon 8500) despite being powerful enough. Not that the game used the video card in any significant way anyway. It can run even on Intel "Extreme" Graphics that has the 3D capabilities of a wet noodle.

I bought my first "own" PC in 2001, and it was twice as powerful as what was needed to run FF11. That was of course a high-end PC at the time, but I am sure lower end PCs could run it too. If your PC is *actually* 10 years old anyway, and you weren't just exaggerating it by a couple of years. A 2004 PC would have absolutely no problems whatsoever.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You can get infomercial PCs for easy payments of $19.95. Think of it as a subscription fee.

[Raka]

I play on both PC and PS2 for FINAL FANTASY XI, I play it on PS2 slightly more...Call me old fashion, but you won't see my vote to shut PS2 support down either. That's being greedy and selfish from my perspective, and I can't understand why people are pushing the issue of it at the moment.

We can't even put a percentage on how many people use PS2 still, and I have no clue how everyone has come to "8%" or so, point me to where you found this if possible.

Everyone has a valid point here, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just confused why this is being such a big deal. I wouldn't mind seeing new areas though rather than reskinned terrain, but to make a percentage of the user community buy a PC or XBOX360 for that very reason would be selfish.

Like I said though, this is my opinion.

[jeffanddane]

SE should just host a torrent file that allows you to download the disc's without payment . . . . . Like maybe options like

Click here if your already a member. And that would be the download one
Click here if your not a member. That would be for the people who have to buy it.

[CrystalWeapon]

SE should just host a torrent file that allows you to download the disc's without payment . . . . . Like maybe options like

Click here if your already a member. And that would be the download one
Click here if your not a member. That would be for the people who have to buy it.

I doubt that's going to happen for the ps2, it seems like they are slowly trying to phase out the ps2 via passive agressive measures. If they wanted to do that they could easily distribute a downloadable iso of the original disks. As tsu has said, you can dl the pc version of the game for free.

As for it being selfish to ask people to move, it's just as selfish to refuse to show any effort to move especially if you do own both systems. It's a sore subject to alot of players because they feel like the many are being punished for the few. (Can't have this b/c of ps2 limitations. Can't have that b/c of ps2 limitations) I like playing on both the pc and the ps2 as well, but if I wanted to simulate the experience on my pc it's not insainly hard. Take a trip to Radio Shack, you can get hookups to connect your pc to your tv. It's pretty cheap to get a good gamming controller. You could also do as it's been stated many times in this thread, and find hookups to connect your existing controller to your pc.

I've said this previously and again not to be mean, but if you can't afford a few hundred to invest in a semi decent pc or used xbox 360, you shouldn't be blowing your precious cash on a monthly mmo.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SE should just host a torrent file that allows you to download the disc's without payment . . . . . Like maybe options like

Click here if your already a member. And that would be the download one
Click here if your not a member. That would be for the people who have to buy it.Actualy it dose work. Sign into your active SE account that has a content ID linked to it and download. Simple.

[Alastaire]

It amazes me that people are still discussing this thread. Guys, I hate to point this out, but if you haven't already noticed, this game is extremely outdated. Even with the "termination" of services to the PS2, the game cannot exceed its own limits. It's running on an old engine with very specific limitations. In fact, many of the problems commonly associated with the PS2 have nothing to do with it at all.

SE isn't stupid. They knew this would happen and planned years ahead. Long story short, they created FFXIV. Unfortunately, things aren't going as well as planned for FFXIV, so we're "stuck" playing an older game. And although this game is technically the only source of income in the SE MMO department, it's not likely that the content expansions planned for this game are as big as we hope they will be. It's not because of limitations of the PS2, but because of a lack of global interest in the game and the return on the investment is risky.

tl;dr: SE doesn't have a lot of money or resources to throw at an older game while they're still trying to fix FFXIV. God bless them for keeping the game running and I'm glad they're still making adjustments, but I don't expect much more from them. You're kidding yourself if you expect more.