4 hit ws build

[Hotan]

hey i was trying to find a good 4 hit build set outside of abyssea does any one know or have any suggestions on how to do it

[Raksha]

Which weapon are you using?

[Hotan]

right now im just using ishikirimaru cuz i dont have anything better

[Raksha]

Well in order to get a 4 hit you'd have to be getting 25 TP per hit. with a 480 delay weapon you're getting 13 tp per hit before store tp. 13 * 1.93 = 25.09. so you'd need +93 store TP to get 25tp per hit. You may need more or less than this depending on your TP return from WSes.

You get +25 from traits according to wiki, so you'd need 68 more from gear/atmas/food/buffs to get up to +93

[Hotan]

so you'd need 68 more from gear/atmas/food/buffs to get up to +93[/QUOTE]


i dont want to use atma im trying to do this out side of abyysea

[hiko]

Well in order to get a 4 hit you'd have to be getting 25 TP per hit. with a 480 delay weapon you're getting 13 tp per hit before store tp. 13 * 1.93 = 25.09. so you'd need +93 store TP to get 25tp per hit. You may need more or less than this depending on your TP return from WSes.

You get +25 from traits according to wiki, so you'd need 68 more from gear/atmas/food/buffs to get up to +93
you forgot 10 from merit, next update we get a new tier of store TP (+5?)

the only GK worth trying to gear for 4hit is Kikugosaku: (480delay storeTP+6)
TP(after update):
carbonara(6)
kiku(6)/rose(4)/-/
zelus/unkai(3)/moonshade(regain)/brutal(1)
unkai+2(10)/dusk+1/hoard(4)/rajas(5)
tactical(6)/bullwhip/unkai+2(7)/ace(5)
(capped haste)
6+6+4+3+1+10+4+5+6+7+5+40(trait post update)=97
13*1.97=25.6
25.6*3=76.8
+2 tic moonshade 78.8
=>21.2 needed from WS
carbo kiku rose brutal rajas unkai legs=>69stp=>21.9

[Hotan]

we have stp V already

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9208

thats where i saw it. what about Keitonotachi +2 it has a stp +20

[hiko]

no, store TPV is for NEXT update, the post you link is in "IN DEVELOPEMENT" not in "IMPLEMENTED"

keito +2 is only+12, as lower delay (464), you need 105 store TP to 4hit it= you need more on gear than for 480 delay

and with hasso/zanshin update Kikugosaku is probably the best (no relic/mythic*) GK

and IMO 4hit are totally not worth it

[Hotan]

well IMO i really just want to be a 4hit outside of abyssea if whatever im doing call for it

[Nala]

do you mean 4 hit after ws tp return by chance? (aka ws + 4 hits) cause in that case you're actually looking for a 5 hit build which isn't as insanely hard to pull off.

[Kuroganashi]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/222248

This is how I get a 25% TP / hit settup (4 hit)

GK got STP+12 on it and I got Merit 5/5 STP

[Nala]

TP build doesnt work out in the math, even considering your using your using a STP keito, the math has you falling short, i count +90 STP 25/12.2 = 105 STP and thats not even considering your WS TP return. further more you are gimping your dammage without the TP bonus gkt.

in order to get a proper x hit build you got to consider your TP return off a ws as you typically will have less STP on your ws therefore need more STP on your tp gear to make up the difference.

in order to calculate your hit build:

(100-TPR)/x = y/z = XTP - T = FTP

TPR = tp return off ws
x = hit build -1 (aka number of hits you are shooting for)
y = total rounded up to the nearest .1
z = base tp gain of your weapon (look it up on wiki)
XTP = Total STP needed to get an x hit build based on your ws tp return (rounded up to the nearest 1)
T = trait/passive STP total (were getting an update soon)
FTP = STP from gear needed

anyways if you post your WS gear set as well i can tell you how much total STP from gear you need to achieve a 4 hit with a Keitonotachi

[Invasion]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should...

[Nala]

actually with that drain hp grip currently its easy to pull off without sacraficing much however that grip gives something like +100 delay, at the very least +93 delay for sure based on my tp return from the masamune (base 14.5, 19.5 completely naked aka +35 stp from traits) but you swing so freaking slow, gotta lose alot of DPS for it, plus the patch notes say they are fixing it tomorrow.

[Ryozen]

Using a grip that adds delay is never the right answer. It's effectively like using an item with Store TP +X% and Slow +Y%. Slowing down your swings is going in the wrong direction.

Luckily for many, it seems that Squeenix has saved them from themselves with today's update.

[Malacite]

Just thought I'd point out now that as of today's update, it is finally possible to 4-hit with masamune outside of Abyssea.

However it does require some rare/expensive items and STP food, and it's only just barely attainable (IIRC, the most you can get is 121 STP with the food and you need 118 to 4-hit masamune)


Not really sure how practical this is, given you have to use some less-than-prime gear (Hachiman Kote +1 for example) but it's possible.

Unless there's a hardcap on STP that is.

[Ryozen]

It's a ridiculous idea, and not even close to worthwhile.

[hiko]

forget your 4hit, 6 hit >5hit if you lower your haste for stp


and for hard cap there was none (tested with rose in campaign a long time ago)

[Nala]

24% haste 5 hit build is doing pretty good if you ask me, only losing out on 1.xx% and that one swing is about 4 some odd seconds faster to to another ws (depending on how much total haste you have)

[Malacite]

As I said, I was only pointing out that it's possible, I said nothing of it being practical.

For now anyway - who knows what kind of STP gear or new merits we'll have access to at 99.

[Ryozen]

Come talk about practical x-hit builds when you're no longer TPing your poor Masamune in Swift Belt and Unkai +1.

[Nala]

umm whos tping masa in +1 and swift? only other person to post but me about the like was wearing a keitonotachi, and was mistaken the campain STP of the rose strap as actual STP...

[Ryozen]

umm whos tping masa in +1 and swift? only other person to post but me about the like was wearing a keitonotachi, and was mistaken the campain STP of the rose strap as actual STP...

That would be Malacite.

[Dirtyfinger]

Hey.

These are my two main sets, inside and outisde Abyssea - Although the latter doesn't get used (/sad face).

Outside Abyssea - http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/219452

Inside Abyssea - http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/219453

As for the new Zanshin update I'm not sure what I'd use personally, but overall it is highly likely we'll be forced to resort back to 6hit builds. This is what I have in mind.

Zanshin - http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/222489

I'm not too convinced about using Katana Strap as the set is more than capable of using Sword Strap as it's 6hit based. Also undecided about Unkai Sugemino over Atheling Mantle.. but only time will tell I guess.

Edit: Just thought, it is possible to remove all Store-TP merits in favour of Zanshin merits and still maintain 16.7 with Sword Strap, but you might want to TP in White Tathlum to give yourself a little leeway for WS (This is just purely theoretical).

[Dirtyfinger]

As I said, I was only pointing out that it's possible, I said nothing of it being practical.

Also in the case it's possible to 2hit an Ito, just swap into Masamune for WS. :D

[Malacite]

Also in the case it's possible to 2hit an Ito, just swap into Masamune for WS. :D

Nice troll there...

:( and it's not even a swift belt it's Headlong lol >_<; still working on getting Goading. But what good does it do me to talk to people who prance around all day with their heads up their rears? Just because some people don't have the omgwtfbbqpwnage gear doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. We're not all billionaires with legions of peons ready to do our bidding like Minidragon was.

You people and your blue-box onry mentality disgust me to no end.

[Ryozen]

The fact that you would spend months farming a Masamune with shout groups, and not even bother to take a couple of hours to go to Sacrarium to farm up a Swift Belt says a lot more about your mentality than my comments say about mine.

Get a Bullwhip. Ovni drops +2 items and is an easy duo for a DD + WHM. Hell, I even had full drops from him with TH3 and without triggering any weakness. It's really not that hard.

[Dirtyfinger]

He is making it sound like Abyssea is hard.

[Nala]

why go through the trouble of getting a masamune and not try to be the best you can be? rather thats the point of having an ultimate weapon (despite the ease of obtaining empyrean weapons) it takes half the effort to finish +2 items then it does to finish am emyrean weapon, furthermore by not having them your limiting both your haste and STP options.

its not an obsession with blue borders but with raw stats. otherwise i'd tp in unkai sune-ate and kote instead of ace's leggings and dusk gloves +1, neither of which have blue borders.

[Kuroganashi]

Still wishing to see a SAM with CAP HASTE 26% + and Enough STP to do a 4 hit with a Massamune :P

Keito +2 = STP+12 so makes it easier XD but with Massamune >.> not sure ever seen 1 XD

[Dirtyfinger]

Keitonnotachi +2 with STP is inferior.

Why?

You can already 5hit it without the STP (TP Bonus ahoy), cap Haste and use Sword Strap.

[Nala]

kuroganashi: you realize to achive a 4 hit build on masamune you need 126 STP aka 86 STP from gear, im not bothering to check into it but i know thats a damn near hard number to reach from gear if its possible at all, that said for sure you will not be capped haste.

i once again re-itterate do you by chance mean a 4 hit after ws tp return build? because that is effectively a 5 hit build considering the event of a complete miss you need 5 attack rounds/total swings to make 100% tp, also adding to what i said before the total STP for a 4 hit build is even higher unless you ws in your tp gear, considering you need more STP on your tp build in order to compensate for the lower TP gain of your ws build.

also wasting your Keitonotachi on STP version is wasteful, your depriving your ws dmg heavily, TP bonus 100 = 0.3125 difference in tp moddifier, or effectivly 30% ws dmg the actuall % difference is smaller but still, lets see some one correct me if im wrong but the % difference between 100% and 200% on gekko mods is 20%, that is a hefty price to pay on your ws damage just for a 4 hit build.

[hiko]

you can 4hit masa with capped haste in abyssea
just need to use scorpion queen, plague bringer and eating carbo (lol)

[Taint2]

Posted this build in another thread but you guys have to factor in the 120 delay that you add each WS.

With the SAM update you can build a rather nasty 6hit for Masamune.

5/5 zanshin, 5/5 med recast, 5/5 OW, 5/5 iki

Masa/sword//thew
zelus/justice/unkai/brutal
af3+2/dusk+1/raja/mars
atheling/bullwhip/af3+2/aces

Pretty hard to beat esp as you go up in haste. You can swap Mars for Pyrosoul if the acc isn't needed as well.

[hiko]

i'd use ace's+hoard if acc isn't needed (the ~1% hassanshin rate should beat the loss in attack)

[Taint2]

i'd use ace's+hoard if acc isn't needed (the ~1% hassanshin rate should beat the loss in attack)


That's a great point, should have both setups.

and now I get to kill Raja again....

[Tsukino_Kaji]

So a 90 sam with a 437 weapon would need how much?

[Ryozen]

5/5 zanshin, 5/5 med recast, 5/5 OW, 5/5 iki
Assuming you WS in Rajas and Brutal, you don't need 5/5 Ikishoten merits. You can go 4/5 and leave a merit in Blade Bash or Shiki.

Also, I don't see how Zanshin merits would be worthwhile. That would get you ~1% Hassanshin, whereas with full Store TP merits you could use more effective gear when TPing and have more TP overflow for Fudo damage. Store TP merits alone would allow you to drop AF3+2 body for Juogi(+1) which has better DD stats.


So a 90 sam with a 437 weapon would need how much?

With full Store TP merits, a Sword Strap, and Brutal+Rajas in WS, a six-hit (WS+5 hits) requires an extra 17 Store TP in the TP phase.

Without any Store TP merits and the above, 24 Store TP is required.

Check out FFXI Calculator. On the "Statistics" tab it allows you to play with different jobs, delays, and Store TP options to find this sort of thing out for yourself.

[Taint2]

Assuming you WS in Rajas and Brutal, you don't need 5/5 Ikishoten merits. You can go 4/5 and leave a merit in Blade Bash or Shiki.

Also, I don't see how Zanshin merits would be worthwhile. That would get you ~1% Hassanshin, whereas with full Store TP merits you could use more effective gear when TPing and have more TP overflow for Fudo damage. Store TP merits alone would allow you to drop AF3+2 body for Juogi(+1) which has better DD stats.



The only improvement I could come up with is Juogi+1 and Gensha's mala. (which my WHM mule got last night /facepalm)
5/5 Iki is for the TP overflow same reason you said keep the stp merits. SAM builds are going to be mystery until people find the zanshin bonus on stuff like AF3+2 body, AF earring, AF back and ace's mufflers. If stacking zanshin nets you atleast 2% it will rival Jougi+1 if its anything past 2% it will beat it. Ace's+Hoard would be a consideration as well.

[Ryozen]

Body is +10%, Back is +5%, Earring is +~2-3%, Mufflers are +3%. Parsing is posted in the Zanshin thread in the same sub-forum. Hassanshin rate is approximately 25% of total Zanshin rate.

I'm not sure trading Juogi out for AF3+2 is the right answer. While it nets you some Hassanshin, ATT, and Store TP for overflow, 5% crit rate and 2-3% double attack is a lot to give up.

Per 5/5 Ikishoten: I find Blade Bash to have enough utility that I'd rather keep that than add a fifth Ikishoten merit. I do lament having it on a 15-minute timer now.

[Nala]

So a 90 sam with a 437 weapon would need how much?

for a 4 hit build? would slightly depend on your ws gear but, if you ws'd in your tp gear with a 437 dealy weapon you'd need 126-40 STP = 86 from gear not including potential hassanshin procs/ikishoten merits

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Well I'm at like 76 or something. lol
WS gear is something like +110str.

[Ryozen]

There is absolutely no point to a four-hit build, unless by four-hit you really mean five-hit (WS + 4 hits).

The only way this would change would be if they added gear with obscene Store TP values and good DD values as well, which seems pretty unlikely.

[Taint2]

Body is +10%, Back is +5%, Earring is +~2-3%, Mufflers are +3%. Parsing is posted in the Zanshin thread in the same sub-forum. Hassanshin rate is approximately 25% of total Zanshin rate.

I'm not sure trading Juogi out for AF3+2 is the right answer. While it nets you some Hassanshin, ATT, and Store TP for overflow, 5% crit rate and 2-3% double attack is a lot to give up.

Per 5/5 Ikishoten: I find Blade Bash to have enough utility that I'd rather keep that than add a fifth Ikishoten merit. I do lament having it on a 15-minute timer now.


15%/4 ~4% Zanshin would be close at 3% and should beat at 4%. A proc is 2 hits of white damage and 3+ hits worth of TP.

Unkai vs Atheling should lean in Atheling's favor unless Unkai is adding 2% zanshin rate.

[Nala]

speaking of hassanshin, some one was saying on another thread that it doesnt proc on ws's, any one know that for fact? (if so i can knock off one of my ikishoten merits)

[Ryozen]

I spent half an hour WSing mobs with Hasso up and without any source of double/triple attacks, and never managed to see a proc. I may have just gotten unlucky, but it's probable that it doesn't activate on WS.

Feel free to go out and give it a try!

[Taint2]

I spent half an hour WSing mobs with Hasso up and without any source of double/triple attacks, and never managed to see a proc. I may have just gotten unlucky, but it's probable that it doesn't activate on WS.

Feel free to go out and give it a try!



Never seen it proc, 100% confident it can't. Been playing SAM during events for a week+ straight.

[Ryozen]

What were you looking for when you playing SAM during events? How would you tell the difference between a Double Attack from /WAR or Brutal and a Hassanzhin proc?

[Nala]

more then likely TP return, if hassanshin worked with ws's you'd have a larger TP return with ikishoten merits, if you were looking specifically for hassanshin procs you'd probably use an other then war sub/remove double attack gear.

Also we should probably continue this line of thought on another thread... the whole 4 hit thing is ridiculous further more what we're talking about is mostly off topic of this thread. (although ikishoten merits +hassanshin would make an occasional 4 hit build.

[Ryozen]

I haven't seen anything to show that Zanshin/Ikishoten'd hits on a WS would provide any additional TP return.

My point was really that there'd be no way to know for sure if what you had was a normal double attack or a hassanshin proc. The only way to know for sure would be to do it in a controlled environment without any other source of additional attacks.

Unless one goes to all of one's events as /NIN or /DNC or somesuch, and leaves one's double attack gear in the Mog House. I doubt this was the case.

[Taint2]

I haven't seen anything to show that Zanshin/Ikishoten'd hits on a WS would provide any additional TP return.

My point was really that there'd be no way to know for sure if what you had was a normal double attack or a hassanshin proc. The only way to know for sure would be to do it in a controlled environment without any other source of additional attacks.

Unless one goes to all of one's events as /NIN or /DNC or somesuch, and leaves one's double attack gear in the Mog House. I doubt this was the case.


SAM/THF for VW. Nope it wasn't controlled plus I use SaveTP and ConserveTP gear. If its 1.0 extra TP then you are right, I was looking for a huge zanshin TP return. Still pretty confident though.

[CrAZYVIC]

Answer only for the OP. and Bumping this i updated the LINKS, hope this time the links work!
Editing because Tachi Rana was changed it seems.



Kikugosu 4 hit build. http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/230834
( You get 24% haste not 10 % haste how the people think, but this 4 hit build cant beat a good 5 hit luxury build for rana)

Keito 100 tp bonus 4 hit build . http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/230835
(I dont recomend you using this keito 4 hit build, because you will have WS almost in full stp gear.) Even with all the sacrifice you get 22% haste. Not 15 or 16% haste how the people think

Now. This is not lv 75 anymore, where the only 2 choices was. 5 hit build losing haste or 6 hit build caping haste and ws in the best luxury items posible. We are in lv 90, with a lot of new STP gear. 6 hit build is obsolete for any two hander job.

Even Warriors, Drks, and DRG can get 5 hit build with capped haste. We the samurais, can get 5 hit build super easy, but in this moment in the game 5 hit build for a samurai probably not is enough for beat a War, a drg or a drk. The only way for beat them is a 4 hit build having 26% haste using Rana or have marvelous STP gear.

Usually the people tell you go 6 hit build on sam, is people never parsed their events and eyeballing the numbers. Only people parse their events and have challenging vs 5 hit build wars or very strongs dds can give you a idea of how increase your perfomance a lot.

[hiko]

ANSWER TO THE OP: DO NOT LISTEN ABOVE POST? IT IS FULL OF FAIL





1.- With your 480 base delay weapon and using Tachi Rana. You only need with a 5 hit build for reach 100% tp in 3 hits.

Tachi Rana returns 40% tp and with 5 hit build, you can reach in 3 hits 100% tp This is equal a 4 hit build. Rana with Red curry, berserk, having good Attack and Str build can do more damage than Gekko, Kasha or Yukikaze. If you use rana you can keep up 26% haste and you can keep a lot of luxury items for WS and not WS in full Store tp gear.

Rana is a dam beast in the parses, with the correct gear and subing war. When RANA DA you will see 1800 - 2200

Rana Tp http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=230831

Rana WS http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=230833

(Remember rana is a multi hit ws, and with this gear, you will be DA WS a lot this mean you need cover the enough attack and accuracy for 3 - 4 hits.) http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tachi%3A_Rana

that is totally wrong
learn how multi hit ws work for tp return (unless it have been fixed recently)
: 1st hit is baseTP*(1+stp/100),
all extra hits are 1*(1+stp/100)

so with 480 delay you get (13+2)*(1+stp/100)
to get 40TP return you need +167stp

2) any situation where rana shine (you're pdiff capeed) penta is better

3) (dont wana be elitist but get masamune!)

+ your links are in your member zone, we cant see em

[Dirtyfinger]

you wish increase your damage for parse this events?

Here's are my solutions for you.

1.- With your 480 base delay weapon and using Tachi Rana.



This is my solution for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&ob=av2e

[Dirtyfinger]

This was my favourite bit


Usually the people tell you go 6 hit build on sam, is people never parsed their events and eyeballing the numbers.


Tachi Rana returns 40% tp

Just thinking the last bit through and making assumptions on the store-tp amounts on your WS set (as stated they're not showing).


Just using the basic Rajas/Brutal store-tp combo for ws, to get 40TP return from Rana you'd need...

1. For it to be a 15 hit weapon skill.

2. Wear Oneiros Ring for WS and hope the TA proc's on all 3 of the hits & some Conserve TP to kick in from either Unkai +2 feet or Snow Belt.

3. Weapon skill in every single piece of store-tp gear available and still hope Conserve TP kicks in.

4. As above but with Corsair's roll bang on 11 instead of Conserve TP.

[CrAZYVIC]

ANSWER TO THE OP: DO NOT LISTEN ABOVE POST? IT IS FULL OF FAIL



that is totally wrong
learn how multi hit ws work for tp return (unless it have been fixed recently)
: 1st hit is baseTP*(1+stp/100),
all extra hits are 1*(1+stp/100)

so with 480 delay you get (13+2)*(1+stp/100)
to get 40TP return you need +167stp

2) any situation where rana shine (you're pdiff capeed) penta is better

3) (dont wana be elitist but get masamune!)

+ your links are in your member zone, we cant see em


In conclusion.

I need check if a 4 hit penta will work better than a rana. Recently my LS mates, are using Tachi rana and they are parsing a bit higher than me using gekko and the reason is this they can keep up good gear for WS and for Tp and still getting a 4 hit build thanks to Rana.

Which is the range of a good parse in einjerhar lets check.

For tier 1 = 40 000 - 50 000 damage
For tier 2 = 50 000 - 60 000 damage
For their 3 = 60 000 - 70 000 damage

In my last parse was a tier 2 einjerhar. I did 51 k using 4 hit gekko build, my LS mates did 53k and 54k using Rana only. We had over 17 people on our einjerhar run.

[Dirtyfinger]

I can't see shit in that video, looks like the dude was filming it with a calculator.

[hiko]

any retard can edit any stupidity in wiki's talk.
just did a short test sam/whm masa, rana in 40+37 stp, NO conservTP gear, seigan TE to not get extra tp from being hit
got
23
23
23
21
3

3hit landed (11.1+1+1)*1.77=23.1
2hit landed (11.1+1)*1.77=21.4
1st miss 2extra landed: (1+1)*1.77=3.5

rana TP return work like any multi hit ws

it's easy to make a video that show 40TP return from ws when said video last less than a meditate+2

and there is no way you can see he got 40TP from his rana

[CrAZYVIC]

any retard can edit any stupidity in wiki's talk.
just did a short test sam/whm masa, rana in 40+37 stp, NO conservTP gear, seigan TE to not get extra tp from being hit
got
23
23
23
21
3

3hit landed (11.1+1+1)*1.77=23.1
2hit landed (11.1+1)*1.77=21.4
1st miss 2extra landed: (1+1)*1.77=3.5

rana TP return work like any multi hit ws

it's easy to make a video that show 40TP return from ws when said video last less than a meditate+2

and there is no way you can see he got 40TP from his rana

Ah ok Thanks for the test.i see they changed it. In the past yes Rana was return 37 - 40 tp and in that video in the last seconds he got about 40% tp return. I will edit then for dont make confusion on the OP. I value a lot your test With Rana. Thanks

[Delvish]

Two things.
1. You can reach a 4 hit build easily with a bow (600 delay) I know not as efficient as actually meleeing but great when you're on the back lines. Just throwing it out there.

2. While making a STp GK for said occasions (in Abyssea), I had capped Ikkishoten merits and Zanshin merits, plus all the Zanshin gear I could get. 1600+ WS later, not a single Ikkishoten proced on WS. That said, I was getting roughly the same TP with Hassanshin as I was on triple attacks. Was very nice.