Any plans to readjust monster distribution in old zones?

[Avina]

First off I would like to point out that I think Grounds of Valor is a wonderful addition to the game and has really been of great help to those players who prefer to not burn their jobs from 30 to 90 in Abyssea. It has opened up some new camps as well... Bostaunieux Oubliette, for example, has never been busier. Just to make it clear: this is not in any way attempting to bash the Grounds of Valor system, but rather, to ask the Devs if they really think pumping all the old dungeons full of level 90 monsters.

The nice part about how the devs added high level mobs into Chains of Promathia areas was that the mobs either were A. Not aggressive or B. Not directly in the players main path so that the monsters were easily avoidable. This felt like an addition to the game, new exp grounds in old zones that didn't have a negative and didn't create player frustration.

Looking at how the new monster distribution has been handled, I can only assume SE fired the guy who planned the CoP exp grounds, because the way how monster distribution was handled in this most recent update *took away* parts of the game, with the placement of these new monsters thrown in without any sort of rhyme or reason.

A couple examples:

1. Garlaige Citadel basement: This used to be a popular exp ground, quickly accessible by players from Jeuno. You put a book down there: right in the spot where people *used* to party. Except now the only thing that fills that area is a bunch of IT to 90 monsters, and the question I have to ask the devs is, why the basement? There are plenty of other areas of Garlaige Citadel that players would already sneak through that hadn't been used as exp grounds before, so why wouldn't you naturally put the higher level mobs there? I have never seen, or ever heard, of anyone ever exping down there since this most recent update when they have Abyssea that is so easily accessible. Please bring this camp back. It would be epic with Grounds of Valor and it's really confusing that the devs decided to basically nuke this classic exp ground.

2. Crawler's Nest basement: Again, you did the same thing here. No one wants to exp against 90s down there, so all you have done is destroyed another old classic exp ground. If you really wanted to keep some high level mobs down there, you could have divided the basement in half, old school mobs by where the old camp used to be, upper level mobs on the other half. That would have worked out fine... and while you moved the flies and exorays into the tunnel leading to the basement so people can still get their LB items still, this still does not work for a party setting because this is a narrow tunnel and you will link a ton of mobs if you were to attempt to pull down this tunnel.

3. Ranguemont Pass: This has me truly confused. The path to Beaucedine Glacier has a fork, and two paths for you to run down. Why did the devs see it necessary then to toss in (seemnigly arbitrarily) IT to 90 mobs on both paths leading to the glacier (which of course, returns to TW to 90 players). It's kind of absurd, devs, and it creates the unnecessary hassle of having to sneak through the zone. I realize the Grounds Tome will provide players with sneak/vis for a very cheap price in tabs, but that isn't the point, the point is you created a hassle for players... no one is fighting these new mobs. Every time I have run through there I have not one seen any players fighting them, but they all end up casting snk/vis and then making their way through. All that was done here was create a hassle, when the devs could have easily just made one path a high-level mob path, another a low level mob path.

4. Inner Horutoto Ruins: Same thing with above, on the way to Three Mage gate, there is a stretch leading to the gate that is surrounded by spots of TW with ITs chilling right in the middle of them. Again, its just a hassle for players... never seen these being killed, once.

And pretty much all the zones you've made these changes in follow the same theme. Again, I think its nice to have some high level mobs in the zones, but please go back and fix our old exp grounds, as well as clean up the mobs that now senselessly obstruct our path and make sneaking/vising a requirement to pass through zones that we've been able to pass through unhindered, easily, for the past nine years until this update came around.

[Muse]

I'll like to throw in Fei'Yin as well...

On either side of Qu'bia Arena there are mobs IT to a lvl 90 player. As a few missions (Rank mission 5-1, San d'Oria 9-2, and a few others) take place there. It seems a bit obscene to have IT mobs on either side. Let's also not forget that lvl70's will have to pass through this area in order to fight Maat to unlock lvl75.

This is a problem, especially for those lvl50-70's.

Were I could see this as a chance to level outside of abyssea, nobody uses this in favor of Abyssea which provides greater rewards.

[Rie]

Wouldn't the old mobs there aggro you regardless at lvl50~70? As far as I can remember, I had to keep sneak and invisible up when I first ventured through that area. It shouldn't make that much of a difference.

[Muse]

I was just using Fei'yin as an example. ^^; But you also took higher level's with you to 5-1 and those missions but that's derailing what Avina was saying. lol.

Some of the old good camps are ruined now because of the higher level mobs in there place. Look at Zeruhn Mines... The high levels tp on the Too Weak mobs making low levels, who have very limited pages, level elsewhere.

[Kjara]

I agree with the OP and frankly think SE should've just put GoV books in the dungeons without adding any new mob... Zeruhn Mines used to be a wonderul place to EXP as a low level player and now it has literally only NINE mobs that you can kill at a low level.... plus the high level players will just 1shot them for treasure chests, forcing the lowbie to go elsewhere. Why not just put books with previously existing monsters in their regimes, and let a player go to an area fitting their level? Leave GC, CN, Eldieme for the lv35 pts or lv50 soloers, and put the lv90 books in WotG and Aht Urhgan, where those EXP mobs you added for lv80-90 parties are roaming alone and forgotten by everyone!

[Kraggy]

I'll like to throw in Fei'Yin as well...

On either side of Qu'bia Arena there are mobs IT to a lvl 90 player. As a few missions (Rank mission 5-1, San d'Oria 9-2, and a few others) take place there. It seems a bit obscene to have IT mobs on either side. Let's also not forget that lvl70's will have to pass through this area in order to fight Maat to unlock lvl75.

This is a problem, especially for those lvl50-70's.

Were I could see this as a chance to level outside of abyssea, nobody uses this in favor of Abyssea which provides greater rewards.
Having just run a level 11 to the Arena for 5-1 I can tell you that those mobs are entirely trivial to get past with a single Oil. Since no-one ever XPed on the Shadows when they were where the 90+ mobs are now this is an entirely different case from the killing off of XP areas the OP lists; I agree wholeheartedly with the OP's plea for the new noone-wants-them-anyway 90+ mobs to be moved somewhere they can be ignored.


Wouldn't the old mobs there aggro you regardless at lvl50~70? As far as I can remember, I had to keep sneak and invisible up when I first ventured through that area. It shouldn't make that much of a difference.
This is also true, the Shadows are around 50 or so IIRC so they aggro most if not all that level range. You're only incorrect in a minor way, you never needed Invis. since all mobs were either sound or magic aggro.

[Avina]

Having just run a level 11 to the Arena for 5-1 I can tell you that those mobs are entirely trivial to get past with a single Oil. Since no-one ever XPed on the Shadows when they were where the 90+ mobs are now this is an entirely different case from the killing off of XP areas the OP lists; I agree wholeheartedly with the OP's plea for the new noone-wants-them-anyway 90+ mobs to be moved somewhere they can be ignored.


This is also true, the Shadows are around 50 or so IIRC so they aggro most if not all that level range. You're only incorrect in a minor way, you never needed Invis. since all mobs were either sound or magic aggro.

That's sort of dodging the point, lol. Tell me, what benefit do the new monsters serve? They aren't new exp grounds since no one wants to actually fight these difficult mobs, so what purpose have they served? Nothing really, aside from being a hassle.

Sure, there are ways to get through these mobs. But its just another annoying step they've implemented that really makes it feel like SE doesn't play their own game.

[Delsus]

I agree with the inner horototo ruins one, I was helping some friends with windy missions, and came across these skeles that were IT++ to them, and i found they aggro lvl 90, and are a hard fight solo.

Having lvl 90 mobs in the path for low rank missions makes no sense at all.

[Kraggy]

Tell me, what benefit do the new monsters serve?
No, you tell Rie and me what difference they make?

Your complaint was they make a difference to an activity such as getting to the Arena, when in fact it's not different at all, a level 50 would aggro the Shadows just like they'll now aggro the level 90 ghosts .. maybe it was the case that they could fight the Shadow, but in practice few going to the Arena would unless they pulled aggro.

I'm not arguing these new mobs are a 'good thing', they're not, and in some places like the Citadel they're a positive 'bad thing', but in the place you cite they're largely an irrelevance .. that said, I do think they should have been but in the large room downstairs, which let's face it is only ever visited by people on their way to the Warp II NPC.

[Hexacore]

3. Ranguemont Pass:....I realize the Grounds Tome will provide players with sneak/vis for a very cheap price in tabs, but that isn't the point,

Because of the mechanics of passing through the door in this zone, it cannot be navigated with book sneak/invis.

You have to remove invis. to pass through the door and make it to the glacier.

I think this validates the point that some of these changes were ill-conceived. I was not able to pass through this zone on a level 55 in order to complete the limit break quest.

This zone in particular seemed like one of the most needless changes.

For what it's worth, there wasn't a single player in the zone. Certainly no one was fighting any of the new higher level mobs. Even if they were though, I'm sure the fork in the other direction would have been ample enough for them (as the OP has already pointed out).

[Avina]

No, you tell Rie and me what difference they make?

Your complaint was they make a difference to an activity such as getting to the Arena, when in fact it's not different at all, a level 50 would aggro the Shadows just like they'll now aggro the level 90 ghosts .. maybe it was the case that they could fight the Shadow, but in practice few going to the Arena would unless they pulled aggro.

I'm not arguing these new mobs are a 'good thing', they're not, and in some places like the Citadel they're a positive 'bad thing', but in the place you cite they're largely an irrelevance .. that said, I do think they should have been but in the large room downstairs, which let's face it is only ever visited by people on their way to the Warp II NPC.

5-1 isn't the only time you go there. There are BCNMs there, level cap breaks, other missions (San d'Oria 9-2 and ACP). Also as Muse said players going to help with 5-1 were often level 75s, few people would travel as level 50 to this battleground. Now that the BCNM has been uncapped, even less people will be traveling there to do the BCNM as level 50 and will instead wait it out until they are higher level. For those players it does present an extra annoyance without reward.

So that's a difference it has made. It inconvenienced me doing San d'Oria 9-2 just this last Sunday, when it would not have before.

But really this isn't about one zone in particular. If it were just one zone that had been inconvenienced by the update then I wouldn't care, but it was much more widespread than that, and it is almost as though these monsters were strategically placed in such a way to maximize player annoyance.

[Rie]

Because bringing some sort of sneak tool/med/casting sneak on yourself or getting someone else to do it spoils everything related to that mission, and you simply can't do it because they changed the mobs, right?

[Avina]

Because bringing some sort of sneak tool/med/casting sneak on yourself or getting someone else to do it spoils everything related to that mission, and you simply can't do it because they changed the mobs, right?

Oh I can and certainly did. I'm a RDM so I can take care of that myself. And overall, I still enjoyed the mission.

Since you keep wanting to tear me down, why don't you actually present an argument in favor of the mobs being there. You seem to like it this way, so tell me, why? Otherwise, stop trolling.

[Raxiaz]

I'll like to throw in Fei'Yin as well...

On either side of Qu'bia Arena there are mobs IT to a lvl 90 player. As a few missions (Rank mission 5-1, San d'Oria 9-2, and a few others) take place there. It seems a bit obscene to have IT mobs on either side. Let's also not forget that lvl70's will have to pass through this area in order to fight Maat to unlock lvl75.

This is a problem, especially for those lvl50-70's.

Were I could see this as a chance to level outside of abyssea, nobody uses this in favor of Abyssea which provides greater rewards.

Maat will teleport you to the battlefield if you're fighting for LB5.

[Sparthos]

Maat will teleport you to the battlefield if your fighting for LB5.

Pretty sure this only applies on the first run of G5

[Rie]

Oh I can and certainly did. I'm a RDM so I can take care of that myself. And overall, I still enjoyed the mission.

Since you keep wanting to tear me down, why don't you actually present an argument in favor of the mobs being there. You seem to like it this way, so tell me, why? Otherwise, stop trolling.

I'm not trying to tear you down, and I wish people wouldn't be so quick to toss the troll flag around. I'm simply saying, for that particular zone, it's not hugely inconvenient, it's not much different from what it used to be. Got sneak? You're fine.

[Avina]

I'm not trying to tear you down, and I wish people wouldn't be so quick to toss the troll flag around. I'm simply saying, for that particular zone, it's not hugely inconvenient, it's not much different from what it used to be. Got sneak? You're fine.

Honestly in this particular case with Fei'Yin, I will agree with you that this really isn't a huge inconvenience. I would be happy enough if they just changed the horutoto, nest, citadel and ranguemont zones back to how they were.

[Muse]

Pretty sure this only applies on the first run of G5

It does only work for the first time you fight Maat.

But Fei'yin is derailing the original post now. That was just something that came to my mind. Nobody uses these mobs as is.

I do agree with Avina that a lot of the older camps were destroyed by these higher level mobs.

[Seriha]

The addition of some higher level mobs helps in regards to Trials. For example, those needing birds, if left to solo, would probably find themselves picking on colibri most often, which also lacks the benefit of Sanction in ToAU zones. This gets more complicated if doing a WS spam/kill since they can Feather Tickle your TP away. Sky is an alternative, but the birds are a good number of levels higher and the zone itself is rife with magic aggro risk. Thinking of other bird-type mobs in non-Abyssea locations and they're either pretty sparse or carry annoying TP moves like Cockatrice's Petrify/Silence or Triple Bats' Attack Down. Enter Zeruhn with the single bat family, roughly around the same level as the Sky birds, but far easier to get to and less danger in the zone. Sadly, this example is only complicated by people seeking the Prouesse Ring, and in turn, often afraid to party because they don't want their chests jacked.

Other zones have benefited from this, like mages getting some more easily accessed amorphs in rain weather and such, but I can't help but feel SE kinda jumped the gun making so many things T or higher to us now. I'm actually okay with the Garlaige basement change, as while some may lament the loss of an old camp, I still look at it as a benefit to the above. These mobs, however, probably shouldn't have been too far over 70 since that'd put 'em a notch about the coffer mob equivalents they replaced in parts. Another poster complained that these should've been behind the gates, but I disagree. There are no coffers in the basement, but navigating the back end of Garlaige requires either a party or going through the Maw in the past and negotiating the Lycopodium warp these are places where people in their 50s will possibly need to work around, and slapping level 95+ mobs on their destination is a far bigger no-no than clinging to some old-school nostalgia.

I can't say I've been down to CN's basement yet where people used to EXP, but like with Garlaige, there's a coffer concern. On top of that, you also have the escort quest which might've gotten more complicated if you have to pass through the new mobs. I've been to the Simurgh side, and that's pretty much okay. I still hate the Aptant NM they have roaming along with the other coffer scorps and crawlers, but the 5m respawns on coffer mobs was welcomed when I found myself hunting keys for a recently leveled job there.

Mob placement in the Pass is pretty dumb. No argument there. It's a small zone, however linked with various low-level quests that leave few of the dead ends as actual good locations for higher level prey. You kind of have the weather benefit here for trials, but with a lot of the higher level mobs also being goblins and not used in specific trials, it's a bit of a waste. Frankly, I'd limit the highest end stuff to the lowest of possible EXP ranges, so the adjusted mobs would be 56-60ish.

Can't speak for the Oubliette since I've had no reason to be there, but I've heard of Vampyrs down in the depths, and admittedly I'm unaware how the Asuran Fists NM pop area has changed, if at all. If I recall, it had 3 EP/DC leeches around it in the past.

The Ruins strike me more as a veritable clusterfeck of design. A zone with multiple entrances, multiple quest-centric locations, and at times is like the Pass, while others more like CN in geography. I could see harder mobs behind the mage gate, assuming the Test Answer skeletons get moved to an accessible location. Such mobs shouldn't be over 65, though, as I believe the Windurst mission stuff has you venturing in the Canal soon after, if not before, which would've promoted a bit of similarity prior to the Canal's own facelifts (Which I haven't been too since, either). Either way, this zone's just... weird, but accidental aggro on the way to the mage gate shouldn't be a concern for higher level players.

Gusgen, Ordelles, and Shakhrami all share RSE quest requirements and by nature of quest consideration should not have any higher end mobs near chest spawns. Whether or not this is the case, I don't know. It's possible SE could've even removed some chest spawn locations with this in mind. Even under old standards, soloing a key in these locations in the late-20s/early-30s was rough, if not impossible. I can only imagine it worse depending on how all things have been moved around.

I've prattled on for a while, and while I haven't covered all zones affected, I'd just like to reiterate that preserving some old setting for the sake of an EXP party is not the way to go. How we've come to get EXP has changed, be it through Abyssea, values doubling, FoV, GoV, Campaign, or whatever. Garlaige and CN had alternatives, some still even existing within the zone at different locations. We know change isn't always good and adapting to things we've been used to for years suddenly being different is its own sorts of rough. Overall, I'm in agreement that placements could've been better, maybe other zones chosen, and possibly even different mob types employed among more hospitable level ranges. If this is ultimately a hint of no new zones ever (I don't believe in the DAT limitation crap, rather more of a production value restriction), then it's a bad sign of things to come with the prior in mind. The majority are almost always going to EXP in Abyssea if they can help it, with those doing other things doing so for a change of pace, limited play time, or some weird moral scruple that dictates leeches can never play a max level job well even if they already have it skilled and geared.

[Sekundes]

Because bringing some sort of sneak tool/med/casting sneak on yourself or getting someone else to do it spoils everything related to that mission, and you simply can't do it because they changed the mobs, right?

Dungeon and quest design should make it so that a group can get to the destination while fighting everything along the way if needed. Even with sneak and invis people aggro. Not saying that it should be super easy but realistically a group should be able to traverse a zone without running in to unavoidable content that far exceeds the level it was designed for.

We may do everything with 90 helpers or sneak by everything or hell even sack it but a battle field designed for a level 50 char should be able to be done by a group of level 50's and that includes getting to it.

We can deal with poor design, we can do it anyway but it's not a smart way to do things for SE.

[Francisco]

Cut and dry, I'd make the following changes to these zones:

Fei'Yin:

- Redistribute the lower level Shadow mobs to the four southeastern rooms to the south of the entrance to Qu'bia arena. Four Shadows per room. Move Specters and the Shadow NMs from the NW corner to the NE corner area (north of the Entrance to Qu'Bia arena) and from the basement. Again, 4 per room.

- Use the rooms freed up near the Cloister of Frost to relocate all the stray Weapons (western side of the basement - some are in side rooms, some are in a deadend room west of Cassie) so all the weapons are along the path to Shiva.

- Northwest of the fountain room is an area shaped like Brain's (from Pinky and the Brain) head. Use this room and the room to the SE of it (the room that should now connect Shadows and Fomors) for the Lv95+ bats and pots.

- Use the NW corner (formerly Specters) for the Lv95+ Ghosts.

- Use the remaining areas to redistribute the small number of displaced pots, dolls and bats. There is still an empty room west of Cassie, several empty rooms previously occupied by weapons, and a few empty hallways.

Ranguemont Pass:

- Consider removing all high level monsters from this area. It is very small, but is an instrumental pathway to progress on quests and storylines for newer players. The level jump is pretty illogical as well.

- Alternately, relocate all high level mobs to the northern tunnel and to the southeastern forked dead-end tunnel.

- If taking the second option consider 1) the NM for Blighted Gloom should also be relocated and 2) the oozes in Ranguemont Pass are a VERY popular camp for BLMs working on Empyrean Staves.

Garlaige Citadel

- Return the main basement to the way it was. (Funnel Bats, Chamber Beetles), but leave out Magic Jugs and move Explosures (Genkai 1 bombs) to those spots. Remove the undead from Serket's room, but keep them in the back room.

- Use the rooms freed up by Explosures to implement the higher leveled mobs.

- Replace the skeletons near the exit to Roc with Coffer Key level skeletons.

- Replace all the enemies on the path to the Strange Apparatus room with higher leveled enemies, but not interfering with the path to the furnace room.

- Add a key item to open Banishing Gates, similar to the Moongate Key for Ro'Maeve.

- Adjust the THF AF3 quest so the monster placement will not interfere with the quest. (This can be achieved by making the 6th ??? spawn the NM and eliminating the 7th)

[Raxiaz]

Pretty sure this only applies on the first run of G5

What I meant is that he will warp you if you need the fight. If you don't need it, he won't warp you. Still don't see how getting to him now (on foot) is any more of an inconvenience than it used to be. Your sub job is irrelevant to the fight, so why not sub WHM, RDM, or SCH for Sneak/Invisible? Or DNC. Instant Warp scrolls are incredibly cheap.

[Neika]

I agree about CN...they took away one of my fav skill up spots (the hallway with the helm bettles) and put blaze beetles there (and Dynast Beetle)! And if i'm not mistaken, didn't chests or coffers spawn in the area where all the high level mobs are now? Did they move them, or do they still spawn there? Some of these zones should have been left alone. They are needed for AF quests, various missions, used for awesome exp camps etc. Zones like Zeruhn Mines weren't used for much, and the mobs they added are non aggressive, which is the way they should have handled all the zones included with that update. Zones that were still being used for exp/AF quests/etc should have been left alone, and just had a GoV book added for the mobs that were already there IMO.

[Alpheus]

I agree about CN...they took away one of my fav skill up spots (the hallway with the helm bettles) and put blaze beetles there (and Dynast Beetle)! And if i'm not mistaken, didn't chests or coffers spawn in the area where all the high level mobs are now? Did they move them, or do they still spawn there? Some of these zones should have been left alone. They are needed for AF quests, various missions, used for awesome exp camps etc. Zones like Zeruhn Mines weren't used for much, and the mobs they added are non aggressive, which is the way they should have handled all the zones included with that update. Zones that were still being used for exp/AF quests/etc should have been left alone, and just had a GoV book added for the mobs that were already there IMO.

they still spawn there but it's weird. You stealth across the room due to the lvl 90 mobs but once you get to where the coffers spawn the mobs plop back down in lvl to where they were and its beetle central in that area. I think that was so irksome about this change (besides Ranguemont Pass but I've posted enough about it in other threads) is that now its "OMG lvl 90 mobs *take a few steps* Hey where did they go?"

[Neika]

Ya I was really bummed about the CN changes...I loved that zone the way it was :( I'm all for upgrading zones no one uses, but zones like CN and Garlaige should have been left alone. They could have easily added GoV books for the mobs that were already there and ppl would have been happy.

I will say though, the 5 min respawn on mobs was a very welcome adjustment. I find getting coffer keys in these zones is easier now cause the mobs spawn faster. I just hung out in the room with the hell mines and weapons and never had to leave when I was farming my Garlaige coffer key for AF, cause just after I killed the last mob, the first one would pop again. This was a very nice feature.

[Deception]

I agree that monsters need to be moved. I'm okay with the new 90+ monsters being in the dungeons, but only if those monsters are in the deepest parts of the dungeons; parts that do not necessarily need to be traversed unless looking for trouble :) The new monsters should not hinder the old quests or missions. The monsters should be appropriate to the objective at hand. The Ranguemont Pass and the Horutoto Ruins are my biggest concerns at the moment, but reports from players about the other zones concerns me now as well.

[Crawlerbasher]

I have to agree to new mob placement for higher lvl mobs is silly.
Most of it gets in the way of missions and quest including getting af from the coffer.

[Camate]

Howdy all!

Thanks for all the specific suggestions on placement changes and what not. Just so you know, the development team is planning to look into adjusting the placements of monsters and this information is just what they needed! I will pass it on to them :) If you have any other concerns regarding monster placement, please feel free to continue leave your feedback.

[Avina]

Howdy all!

Thanks for all the specific suggestions on placement changes and what not. Just so you know, the development team is planning to look into adjusting the placements of monsters and this information is just what they needed! I will pass it on to them :) If you have any other concerns regarding monster placement, please feel free to continue leave your feedback.

This is great news. :) Thanks a ton Camate!

[Kraggy]

I have to agree to new mob placement for higher lvl mobs is silly.
Most of it gets in the way of missions and quest including getting af from the coffer.
Indeed, the mobs in the Citadel have reduced the numbers of key droppers, which along with the low drop rate is now making key farming a hell of a bigger PITA than it used to be, and it was never anything but a huge chore in the first place. :(

[Coldbrand]

I'd like you to place Sozu Sarberry directly in my Mog House, and mine alone please. Thanks.

[Tezz]

Howdy all!

Thanks for all the specific suggestions on placement changes and what not. Just so you know, the development team is planning to look into adjusting the placements of monsters and this information is just what they needed! I will pass it on to them :) If you have any other concerns regarding monster placement, please feel free to continue leave your feedback.

Abyssea seems to have large groups of monsters in their own specific areas. Will older areas ever see quantities of monsters similar to this? I would like to see older areas have many more monster spawn areas in groups similar to this.
I've always felt Vana'diel has a whole lot of open space that seems to go to waste.

If the increase in quantity is out of the question, how about much faster respawns or higher EXP(again)? With all the Fields/Grounds of Valor & competing with other players, it can sometimes be annoying just sitting and waiting.

With careful consideration for safe paths in mind, please consider larger groups in specific spots or non-aggroing monsters.

[Neika]

Indeed, the mobs in the Citadel have reduced the numbers of key droppers, which along with the low drop rate is now making key farming a hell of a bigger PITA than it used to be, and it was never anything but a huge chore in the first place. :(

I actually found farming the keys in Garlaige Citadel to be easier now since the mobs spawn every 5 mins now instead of 16. This part of the update I actually really like.

[Legomike]

something to point out unless im mistaking you cant complete any pages in the maze at the Buburimu Peninsula entrance

[Alpheus]

Howdy all!

Thanks for all the specific suggestions on placement changes and what not. Just so you know, the development team is planning to look into adjusting the placements of monsters and this information is just what they needed! I will pass it on to them :) If you have any other concerns regarding monster placement, please feel free to continue leave your feedback.

i would simply suggest that in order to fix Ranguemont Pass you'd need only move the book to the room immediately behind the door you must operate to go further in; since the new mobs only appear after you pass the door anyway it would make sense. This would allow low level players to purchase the stealth buff from book and allow passage. The only downside would be that the lower level option of farming an Ahriman lens would still remain lost but it isn't too much of a hassle since plenty of Bat Eyes spawn in the Glacier zone and as such would simply make players have to wait some levels before they can feasibly farm it.

[Francisco]

Another adjustment I would like to see is: Add a Grounds Tome to the very beginning of the "hard part" of King Ranperre's Tomb. There seems to be one by each end of the zone (one near Jugner and one near Ronfaure), but nothing near the new high level mobs - which are likely to be in the highest demand anyway.

Adding one near the staircase to the easy part would be perfect.

[Seriha]

Howdy all!

Thanks for all the specific suggestions on placement changes and what not. Just so you know, the development team is planning to look into adjusting the placements of monsters and this information is just what they needed! I will pass it on to them :) If you have any other concerns regarding monster placement, please feel free to continue leave your feedback.

I guess the simplest rule of thumb would be to keep in mind concerns myself and others brought up in regards to quests or other purposes that might have grossly underleveled players passing through a particular area. If the higher level monsters are non-aggro, it's certainly not much of an issue. If they do aggro, however, a party of of-level people for whatever objective they're passing through for should be able to take it.

Totally revamping niche, unused corners of any zone is pretty much a-ok, though avoiding the two steps from too weak to OMGTHEY'REEATINGMYFACE should be a priority, too, even if it's simply marked by some nation-specific NPC that's like, "Be careful, the monsters back here are far more dangerous than others in the area!" to serve as a quick visual warning.


I actually found farming the keys in Garlaige Citadel to be easier now since the mobs spawn every 5 mins now instead of 16. This part of the update I actually really like.

This, too. Effectively thirding the repop time basically triples the amount of mobs to kill in the same span. I was in GC the other day getting a key for my PLD, finding basically enough mobs to always keep me fighting. Fortunately the drop was merciful, taking less than a dozen kills.

[Avina]

I think a lot of the pages would get more use if the books were in greater abundance and at more convenient locations. When Fields of Valor first debuted it worked fine to have the pages near entrances since you'd only need to trot back there once an hour to refresh your page. Now that Fields of Valor pages can be taken more than once per game day, and Grounds of Valor thrives on that, it may be worth considering either adding more books throughout dungeons in more strategic places. I'm not sure if there is a limitation to how many of the books you can keep in the zone, but if you are limited in the number of Grounds Tomes you can place, you may want to consider placing them where you expect players to party. For example, instead of placing a Grounds Tome in the entrance to the zone, that book may be better placed in the 'sac room' where players would exp off crawlers. A lot of training regimes incorporate mobs in those surrounding areas, so it seems like it would be an ideal place for a book.

With the placement of books you can easily make new camps for the old dungeons as players will likely party close to them. The pages that get ignored are the ones that require the long treks... generally I'd say if it takes 5-10 minutes to backtrack through the zone back to the book, and then back to where the mobs are, that's probably a bit too long. Soloers would much rather kill weaker mobs that others might be partying off of in favor of being closer to the book for their next page, and parties aren't going to want to really be jumping up and leaving camp to refresh their book page every couple of mobs.

Another option, if you are limited to where you can place these tomes, is to be able to set a page to go on repeat until you return to the book to change it. I think this was discussed in another topic. Perhaps you could tack that data onto the prowess buff somehow or make it some other buff if its hard to keep all that data in the memory. Perhaps the 'repeat' information would be lost upon zoning out of the zone or something. This would actually be preferable to having more books in the zone because if pages were on endless refresh then players would be encouraged to seek out newer, better camps regardless of where the tome was located.

[Hannah]

In that case... I wonder would you change Sea's repop timer like you did with Sky? All of Trade pop NM are 15 mins timer in Sea. Even if there are no plan for adjust drop rate or anything. At least lower repop ??? timer please.

[Malamasala]

No, you tell Rie and me what difference they make?

I remember my group accidentally aggroing the dolls outside. We had to fight some DCs before the zone, though I admit we mostly just zoned.

But it does help to get hit by 50 instead of 500 at level 50 after you get aggro.

[wildsprite]

what I dont get is,

I believe SE said the placement of these new mobs was to present a challenge to higher level players, well
if they want to give us areas outside of abyssea to challange us so we get EXP.....well how about this, there are 3 zones in the past they could allow us access to in the present Grauberg, Vunkurl Inlet(lil tougher to give access to, but I'm sure the devs could figure something out) and Fort Karugo-Narugo

all 3 of those zones would make great places for higher levels and SE wouldn't have to give us new zones, only new versions of them with paths to allow us entry to them

and hey they could place all their new high level mobs in those zones while they are at it, thus leaving the old dungeons for lower level players

[Neika]

what I dont get is,

I believe SE said the placement of these new mobs was to present a challenge to higher level players, well
if they want to give us areas outside of abyssea to challange us so we get EXP.....well how about this, there are 3 zones in the past they could allow us access to in the present Grauberg, Vunkurl Inlet(lil tougher to give access to, but I'm sure the devs could figure something out) and Fort Karugo-Narugo

all 3 of those zones would make great places for higher levels and SE wouldn't have to give us new zones, only new versions of them with paths to allow us entry to them

and hey they could place all their new high level mobs in those zones while they are at it, thus leaving the old dungeons for lower level players

I actually like this idea. Yes, we are getting tired of re-skinned zones, but this makes more sense to me than adding the higher lvl mobs in some of the areas they did. I just don't know if there is any story line stating why we don't have those zones in the present already.

[wildsprite]

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall seeing any part of the story to indicate why we don't have access to these areas in the present

but I also haven't completed the WotG story yet either, can someone who has confirm if there is any reason explained why we don't have access to those 3 areas in the present?

[wildsprite]

nobody can confirm or deny any story that tells why we don't have access to these areas?

I'm not asking for spoilers or anything, just confirmation if there is any as to why we don't have access to those 3 areas in the present

if not I really think the devs should consider them as high levels outside of abyssea, I doubt it would be hard to implement them

[Seriha]

I just kind of assumed the pathways were irreparably destroyed as a consequence of the war as they all seem to be accessed through caves whose actual length we can't just assume a few yalms because it is a zone line.

[Zumi]

I was guiding a new player through Ranguemont Pass and there are level 90+ mobs in the way to get to Beaucedine which is not a high level zone. Since I wasn't expecting these level 90 mobs there ended up dying and having to HP.

These newly added monsters in previous lowlevel zones should be made non aggressive not totally destroy low level players in these zones trying to do quests. Other problems like Crawlers Nest and Garlairge, Dangruf Wadi come to mind with people trying to do Artifact Armor quests

[wildsprite]

I just kind of assumed the pathways were irreparably destroyed as a consequence of the war as they all seem to be accessed through caves whose actual length we can't just assume a few yalms because it is a zone line.

true but it was still never actually explained that I can find and I'm sure the devs could come up with ideas how to tie their addition into the story lines of the present

[Muse]

One story I always heard about Grauberg was that Bastok sealed it up due to the plague. It was thought to be brought on by the Chigoes that roam there.

I'd assume Fort Karugo-Narugo was abandon/destroyed because it had a linking tunnel to the Windurst area. (The Tunnel is seen during WoTG)

Vunkurl Inlet... I don't know. lol

[wildsprite]

they could make access to each area a quest that involves materials to open tunnels to those areas simple ideas like you have to bring them an item or 2 for each area, and the story would go around the idea that all adventurers are doing it

[katz]

I have mixed views over this. Tomes are great, but I do think it was badly planned in areas that were existing camps. Crawlers is a classic example of this, instead of leaving the low levels south of the ball room when the high levels were north of the ball room they ruined a good camp spot. Maybe because the coffers were in the north I dont know, but to me it made more sense to put the higher mobs north. One area that really needs a good shake up is Valkurm Dunes. With such a big area they could have made the 2 zone in points La Theine and Konschtat highlands the low end moving the goblin hill mobs to the whitebone sands beach and making secret beach and goblin hill higher mobs, the bard stone would also have to move to the beach too. The tunnel(where the stone monument is) in Whitebone sands could link to gustav low end mobs and the secret beach entrance access to the high level mobs. I duno just a suggestion seems a big area for not much happening these days. Maybe people would have a reason to go back to the dunes for parties....

[Gaspee]

Totally revamping niche, unused corners of any zone is pretty much a-ok, though avoiding the two steps from too weak to OMGTHEY'REEATINGMYFACE should be a priority, too, even if it's simply marked by some nation-specific NPC that's like, "Be careful, the monsters back here are far more dangerous than others in the area!" to serve as a quick visual warning

This sounds like a practical and intuitive idea to me. Coupled with minor revisions in spawn patterns in the aforementioned areas, the implementation of a warning NPC would make for happy and safe low-level players.

[wildsprite]

so nobody can confirm any story lines that would prevent them from making new quests to open Grauberg, Vunkurl Inlet and Fort Karugo-Narugo, so how about it then devs, why not make use of those zones in the present, they would be great zones for higher level players and allow you to keep high level mobs out of low level areas

Grauberg being sealed off cause of the plague would be something that happened 30 or so years in the past so they could do a quest to unseal it, I wonder about the other 2 zones though, Vunkurl Inlet may be difficult because of carpenters landing, but I suspect they could still come up with something

[wildsprite]

shameless bump

[Galadrial]

Vunkerl Inlet could be accessed from the ferry in Carpenters Landing going to a landing stage, located somewhere in the lower southern regions of the zone. As for FKN, the present NPC Kayeel-Payeel does make reference to it if you speak to him in present day Windy Waters (North), he states it has been left to decay and is in ruins i believe. No reason why the tunnel can;t be reopened or, if I remember correctly, one of the areas past the actual fort is located near a shoreline, it's an area with gnats nearby, would be certainly a possibility to have a ferry like Bibiki Bay taking people to and from this area from Port Windy. Could be easier than having to reopen a tunnel or explain why no evidence of one is in the zone at all at present.

Galadrial

[wildsprite]

in ruins and left to decay, honestly sounds like a good place for higher level monsters to me....

[Sealdorie]

I'm going to have to add my support for re-distributing mobs back to their original locations, and putting the higher mobs someplace else. I'm not really sure what the thinking of increasing server population by merging worlds while simultaneously taking out certain camp spots for lower levels was all about.

I can't speak for all of the zones, but I really think Crawler's Nest and Garliage were bad ideas. These were two staple xp camps, and should not have been messed with.

[katz]

AF quest As Thick as Thieves (level 50 and above thf) is now fun dodging the level90 mobs trying to get the items to drop from the mobs especially as you have to keep feeding the goblins and hoping you win 3 in a row >.>

[Camate]

Here is some additional feedback I would like to share in regards to monster placement.



I’d like to give one example of an area where monster placement is really bad.


Area: Dangruf Wadi (in front of the geyser)
The ??? where you trade the trigger item to pop the NM Chocoboleech


I was playing around in Gustaburg and happen to get the trigger item, so I decided to pop the NM while I was out and about. The enemies in front of the geyser had different names than I was used to, so I checked and they were IT to a job above 75. Since there are a lot of goblins and leeches around, when you pop the NM there is a good chance you will be attacked. Originally the NM and the monsters nearby were all geared towards characters slightly over 30, but now it seems like the difficulty has risen significantly.

The NM fight itself is really insignificant and not a problem, but it’s pretty sad…


Thanks for the feedback.
We will be looking into changing the spawning locations of “???” for many notorious monsters. If there are additional placement problems, please let us know!

[Xantavia]

I believe the promyvian zones should be a great example of how to lay out monsters. There is still a safe path climb the zone at the original level of 30, then an alternate route that can be used which is populated by the higher level mobs. Going back to posts made months ago in regard to Fei'yin, there needs to be a path to Qu'Bia Arena that does not pass through mobs a party of level 50 characters cannot handle. I use 50 because of the old cap of 50 for mission 5-1. With any zone that has multiple paths to reach a new zone, I think the best compromise would be original mobs one way, new high level mobs the other.

And it has been a few months since I've been to the 3-mage gate, but Inner Horutoto ruins needs a major revamp from what I can remember. It is used in missions that used to be good for players in the 20's or 30's. Now, you have to run through goblins that are aggressive to a level 90 in order to complete Ground Tomes pages with monsters that become too weak at 40.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I like the idea of some aggressive mobs to a 99 in the way, makes it a little interesting when your traveling. But as for the camps, yea they need major redistribution, killing the lower level xp camps is silly. I also noted in another section where the new 75+ mobs where placed on map3 in kuftal tunnel is an embarasement. The mobs there are on top of each other and is not where near ideal for even a small book burn pt because you have to wade through dozens of mobs of different types and there is no decent place to camp without aggro or linking the rest of the zone. If im doing books why should I have to kill 5 links of a mob I dont need for my book, just because the placement of the new mobs was sloppy.

[Selzak]

I wonder if the dev. team has something up their sleeves or if they really think that randomly putting level 90 monsters in a place like Dangruf Wadi is going to have any impact other than randomly restricting areas of the game meant for lower level content.

I mean, unless there's going to be some new kind of leveling paradigm (new 'super advanced' jobs or something) that doesn't allow you to access Abyssea, they're just completely wasting their time and doing much more harm than good.