Scholar new spell list - "gain STAT" aka bard buffs but single cast.

[Covenant]

Rather than continuing to feed scholar BLM and WHM spells, I'd like the whole unique spell list idea. I'd go further than just giving scholars gain or boost spells(RDM and WHM respectively).
I'd take the bard song list and strip the party effects to single party targets. Things like ACC, RACC, MACC, MAB, EVASiON, ATT would become single casted spells for moderate effects (what's a tier II or III bard song effect?). Gaining 10-20 points(debatable) in any of those traits would offer significant returns.
Balance, keep these from being Accessioned like enspells2. Keep them high enough so that they are unique for scholars. And allowing them to stack WITH bard songs would be nice.
I, also thought of a "spell" that increased the potency of a party members next job ability similar to RDM's saboteur. Basically, increase the /JA duration or strength.

[Covenant]

Before I get troll mail, think about it... One of the most frustrating things about bard songs is the fact that any 3 song overwrites the first song. A scholar with these spells could pinpoint buffs..ninja get evasion....warriors attack...nukers MaB...etc, without worrying about AOE or overwriting effects.
These type of spells don't step on anyone's toes as opposed to having given scholars access to tier V nukes and redmage solo spell and accession.

[Sotek]

I'd like the whole unique spell list idea.


I'd take the bard song list and strip the party effects to single party targets.

That's not really unique then.

But I don't disagree with giving Scholar unique buffs, rather than balancing it horribly by pretending Accession doesn't exist (seriously, stop this SE) I'd make the best of a bad scenario (Libra et al) and make them completely un-unique Corsair style buffs based off enmity levels, which no doubt people are sick of me for saying; assuming people still visit here.

[Kasandaro]

Rather than continuing to feed scholar BLM and WHM spells, I'd like the whole unique spell list idea. I'd go further than just giving scholars gain or boost spells(RDM and WHM respectively).
I'd take the bard song list and strip the party effects to single party targets. Things like ACC, RACC, MACC, MAB, EVASiON, ATT would become single casted spells for moderate effects (what's a tier II or III bard song effect?). Gaining 10-20 points(debatable) in any of those traits would offer significant returns.

Unless you are significantly underskilled, ACC, RACC, and MACC are going to be capped outside of Voidwatch, and many jobs can cap EVA, especially with cruor and atma choices.

MAB is always nice to have, though, since it's a straight post-math bonus.

As for ATT? On DNC90, my naked ATT is well over 400. A buff that increases my attack by 20? That's a Dispel-buffer.

Also, the point should be made that RDM currently gets self-target base attribute buffs and WHM gets the AoE version (both at a higher potency than Stormsurge - /stab). So the uniqueness factor is...questionable.

[Merton9999]

Honestly I'm hoping for something more unique and valued for SCH, and more importantly a boost to our current spells that are already interesting in concept (Storms, Adloquium, Animus)


But I don't disagree with giving Scholar unique buffs, rather than balancing it horribly by pretending Accession doesn't exist (seriously, stop this SE) I'd make the best of a bad scenario (Libra et al) and make them completely un-unique Corsair style buffs based off enmity levels, which no doubt people are sick of me for saying; assuming people still visit here.

I've always liked the concept of basing SCH spells on some numeric parameter. Varying potency based on target's MP, HP, TP, TP, ENM etc, maybe with an additional JA use before it - something that works outside of strategems but on a charge basis as well:

Use Parameter: HP and Cure spells have a potency increase of 1% for every 2% the target's HP is below 90%. They could even base the threshold on a trait that increases with level. So level 20 SCH could only use it to boost Cure below HP 20%, but you "learn" to affect greater spans of HP by level 90-99 so that a Cure V equivalent is readily available by 90, for target HP bars below 40%. Use Parameter: Enmity and Animus spells receive a potency increase for lower or higher levels of Enmity, etc.

[Sotek]

Klimaform II would be nice for weather based buffs. To copy/paste from something like Summoner, Klimaform II + Firestorm = +ATK, or +Hailstorm = +MAB, +Voidstorm = Refresh, etc. Though rather than another spell to do that, it might make more sense to once again copy from Summoner and just throw it in as an ability.
That's just to give a general idea before anyone jumps on me for out right copying Summoners abilities.

Would be nice to see some spells that work outside Arts as well (Gray spells?), though not completely. Something like a buff that does one thing in Light Arts, and another in Dark Arts, while not giving you the regular Arts bonus. That would actually be ideal for Libra/Animus related stuff, something like:
Dark Arts: Enmity 75%+ +ATK
Light Arts: Enmity 75%+ +DEF
To give a pathetic example.
Scholar lacks reason to actively switch Arts. Yes it's cool that I can be a nuker then switch to being a healer, but you're mostly one or the other since it's impossible to be a fulltime nuker and healer; unless your healer dies or a White Mage shows up there's no real need to switch.

[Covenant]

I fail horribly at the "number-crunching" aspect of FFXI,so things like caps and whatnot I don't get. However, I just base the idea on "normal"(ie outside Abyssea) play and general trends. SquareEnix makes players jump through hoops to gain at most a 20pt boost from trials. Things like evasion, pet evasion, MaB, etc. And last I check a +6 or +7 INT rings still sells for 1mil Gil or so.
So my suggested boost were simply a lack of knowledge. I do want to make a single cast scholar spell "overpowered". Two approachs I see happening with this spell. Either a low set number for specific duration or a high number with decay.
I tried to keep away from the stat boost because Darkknight, /Darkknight, WHM, bard, and RDM all have individual boosters songs or spells. Both corsair and bards have the other "stat" AoE's, yet lack for the most part individual effects. Bard does have it, but a 3rd song will always overwrite the first.
Some people would argue that scholars when boosting through storm surge already give a boost it is true what they say. But, it's true in the same way as casting absorb-DEX and absorb-ACC for dark night is the same.
Just to say, I offered recognizable buffs. But these scholar boost can include others buffs like skill chain, magic burst, HP increase, MP increase, and maybe even a "luck"(think treasure hunter) spell.
Or think of the potency spell, transforming all regular job abilities into /JA +1(next use only).
I do recognize the "downside" though. Yes, it's the same argument as the Darkknight nuke argument. Namely, why buff players when a scholar can just tier V nuke themselves foot straight damage. I don't have an answer, only that the "flavor" of the job style will change.

[Merton9999]

I'm liking the idea of more buffs coming from weather instead of a slew of new specific spells. Klimaform II would be a fine way to do it, but I'd go for a simple JA.

Firestorm + Geomancy JA = +ATT

Make the recast high enough so you can't "Geomance" everyone but low enough to be worthwhile.

EDIT: Changed my mind. By using a Klimaform II to activate the bonus to weather, you could AOE it. Whereas WHM and SMN can pick one buff for the party and RDM can pick one self buff, SCH would be able to provide an AOE buff to the party that varies by member depending on their weather. Also, I'd like this to work like Klimaform where the source of the weather is unimportant. Unlike Stormsurge, you could apply the buff using Klimaform II without a storm spell if the current zone weather matched the buff you wanted to give. So if the zone weather is ice, you can give everyone MAB with Accession/Manifestation + Klimaform II.

[Kristal]

Geomancy? Or Enhances "Storm" spells effect on a SCH unique piece/set of equipment?

[Saefinn]

I suspect if you were doing other stats they'd be laid out like this:

Sandstorm: Def+
Rainstorm: Mag Def+
Windstorm: Eva+
Firestorm: Att+/Rng Att+
Hailstorm: Mag Att+
Thunderstorm: Acc+/Rng Acc+
Aurorastorm: Cure Potency+
Voidstorm: All of the Above (but weaker)

The Cure Potency stat would be particularly useful because of SCH's lack of Cure V and VI and we don't want to be stepping on the toes of WHM, however, I think Cure Potency + Rapture wouldn't be too big of a problem for competition, yet it'll increase SCH's Curing potential.

The boosts from Stormsurge aren't too great for the above stats, as, for example Thunderstorm gives DEX and for every 2 DEX you get 1 ACC, with +7 DEX, that's not making too much of a difference, compared to Hunter's Roll, which if a lucky number is hit is +40. As it seems SCH's exclusivity is in enhancements it is perhaps a good idea to let them utilise more of them.

In my Aby group I'm normally chucked into the DD party because my healing is second to a WHM (hence WHM teams up with the tanks) and what I'm there to do is use my enhancements on them. (And just as well my second main is COR, so when I'm asked to come COR my job is pretty much the same just with different enhancements, bar the use of nukes and cures)

Of course, I wouldn't want SCH to compete with BRD or COR, because they really ought to be the true enhancers - to AoE Thunderstorm to get +40 ACC would be stepping on people's toes a bit and as a COR I am reluctant to support the idea of SCH getting these buffs. A +10 ACC buff (for example) would only be stepping on COR if they roll a 1, an 8 or bust and ought not step on the toes of a BRD either. So watered down versions of these stats would probably work - chuck them in a Stratagem/JA (next storm spell will offer a stat bonus), Klimaform 2, Traits or as Storm 2 spells or whatever seems most appropriate.

However, the trouble I feel is, would it be detracting too much from the elemental bonuses from storm spells? I suppose if you're using Icestorm for Mag Att Bonus +10 and have Tupsimati for +30 on corresponding weather it wouldn't be.


At the same time, SCH isn't all about enhancing - I quite love Helix spells, it'd be interesting to see more done with them. I use them as an alternative to nukes on tougher enemies, because 75% of the time I'll be healing/enhancing - I find for the total MP and damage dealt they're a lot more MP and hate efficient. When thrown in to nuke, I'll use a helix anyway because it's extra damage whilst I'm spamming nukes/skillchains.

[Sotek]

I suppose if you're using Icestorm for Mag Att Bonus +10 and have Tupsimati for +30 on corresponding weather it wouldn't be.

Tupsimati is:
Same elemental magic as weather: Enmity-20
The Acc/MAcc/MAB that follow after it aren't weather specific, SE needs to hire better people to word things in this game.
(Also Hailstorm is +10% damage, not +10MAB)


Geomancy? Or Enhances "Storm" spells effect on a SCH unique piece/set of equipment?

Enhances "Storm" spells is currently reserved for pushing them up to double weather level.

Otherwise that's probably a better way of dealing with such a thing, depending on how strong the added effect would be, having really strong buffs limited only to Storm recast would be a tad unbalanced; unless they stick it on Tupsimati.

[Saefinn]

Tupsimati is:
Same elemental magic as weather: Enmity-20
The Acc/MAcc/MAB that follow after it aren't weather specific, SE needs to hire better people to word things in this game.

I see, ty. It is a rather confusing way of wording it.


(Also Hailstorm is +10% damage, not +10MAB)

I'm referring to the suggested system where each storm offers a different buff, I listed out how I'd see each storm spell would correlate for the COR/BRD style buffs, I put Hailstorm with MAB. (+10 just came out of nowhere, it'd prolly be a lower stat consider +10 is a lucky Wizard's Roll and as I said in my post, if SCH were to get these it'd need to avoid treading on the toes of other jobs)

[Covenant]

The reason I argued for scholars to have a single cast version(targetable) is because I wanted to avoid a fifth bard version. That is a job with AOE party effects(bard, corsair, Summoners, and scholar with accession). I wanted these spells to be quick casted versions. If stronger than gain (7pt or so), think Darkknight absorb spells(with decay). If same level as gain spells then long duration with no decay.


As an aside, I should have also suggested the "drain" version of theses types of spells but used against mobs. Think absorb type spells just without the absorb part. This could include...
Drain Strength : 20pts or so, ~Int, ~Agility....etc.

This eliminates the whole cap argument. This also eliminates Darkknight from crying about casting absorb spells other than drain and aspire types.

Im wary of adding additional effects to storms since Stormsurge already does this. While cheap(+5pts to stats), its an already established form. Single buffs/debuffs I think would be more in line to the whole "battle master" theme. If you turned these moves to AOE, then you'll have the same issues as with bard. Namely, overwrites and limited durations.

[Merton9999]

The fact that Stormsurge already does it is exactly why I'd like the additional buff added to storm spells. With Phalanx, Enspells, Stoneskin, storms, Animus, and Adloquium, my nightmare is to have yet another cycle spell on SCH. I'd rather take the already lackluster current ones and improve them rather than making up for their lack of utility by having to pile more buffs on. Whether the new buff is a straight benefit of storms or I have to Manifestation + Klimaform II, either is better than 6 additional buffs to cycle.

[Covenant]

This is true...even when I merited the Stormsurge I thought to myself, "ONLY +5?". SquareEnix has always been cheap when it comes to stats and recast timers outside of Abyssea.

[Sasaraixx]

I think that a Klimaform II type spell to enhance our storms is a brilliant idea. /praise

Personally, I would prefer the spell to be a white magic spell. Call it Tempestas. This would allow the spell to be aoe'ed with Accession instead of Manifestation. Aside from Klimaform, all of our buffs are Light Arts spells and having to switch to Dark Arts after casting the required storms would be cumbersome and could cost charges.

I would also change the additional effects. The garden variety acc, atk, eva stat boosts have to come in large quantities in order to be useful and they are already covered adequately by two jobs. I would make our buffs more unique, allowing us to work well with COR & BRD, but I would keep the potency on the lower end to keep it from being overpowered. For example:

Fire: WS Damage
Ice: Magic Attack
Wind: Weapon Delay
Earth: -PDT
Thunder: Crit Damage or Rate
Water: -MDT
Light: Cure Potency
Dark: Not sure. Refresh seems redundant and most jobs would prefer one of the above buffs I think. Enhance absorb type effects (including sambas) or maybe fast cast - This could go a number of different ways.

The Animus spells could use a serious buff as well.

[Merton9999]

@Sasaraixx
Good points. I like the idea of a white magic version of Klimaform to boost storms for the reasons you listed. Also, I'm always in favor of SCH have unique abilities, so your bonuses sound better to me than the standard STR/ATT for fire, etc.

[Sasaraixx]

@Merton9999
Thanks! As I said, your and Sotek's initial idea is fantastic. I'm not sure if the bonuses I suggested are broken or not but I really want the SCH buffs to be unique and allow us to work well with other buffing jobs. The idea would be for us to never be redunant in a party when it comes to support.

I think that because SCH is a hybrid job it is going to need small buffs to each of its facets as we head toward lv99. Your idea would really take care of our enhancing role in my eyes. The Animus spells and *maybe* Aldoquium need some work too. That would leave healing and nuking to be addressed. Any thoughts? Or are they fine as they are?

I'm also very disappointed with our AF3 set bonus. I just don't find it particularly useful and in some cases it can be a bother. I would have liked a Conserve Charges kind of ability that would occasionally allow for chargeless strategem uses or perhaps an occasional mag crit when casting nukes of the corresponding weather. Hateless spell of the corresponding weather? There were many other routes this could have gone. It seems even odder given that it looks like RDM is getting a quick magic ability in the next update.

[Raksha]

Klimaform that stacks with Perpetuance! {Yes, Please}

[Sotek]

The Animus spells and *maybe* Aldoquium need some work too. That would leave healing and nuking to be addressed. Any thoughts? Or are they fine as they are?

The Animus spells need a lot of work done to even begin to become respectable spells. Aldoquium needs nothing more than an extra tic added to it to match Corsairs random version. Healing, I stand by giving Scholar (and Red Mage) Cure V minus the reduced enmity bonus. Nuking we're pretty much fine, Helices could possibly do with a small buff or second tier (which would have happened by now, unless we're getting them as merits in which case that's all we're getting as merits so boo) and thus I'm obliged to mention that Modus Veritus is still broken, SE.


I'm also very disappointed with our AF3 set bonus. I just don't find it particularly useful and in some cases it can be a bother. I would have liked a Conserve Charges kind of ability that would occasionally allow for chargeless strategem uses or perhaps an occasional mag crit when casting nukes of the corresponding weather. Hateless spell of the corresponding weather? There were many other routes this could have gone. It seems even odder given that it looks like RDM is getting a quick magic ability in the next update.

Really? It's effectively Double-Cast since MP isn't an issue for Scholar, that's great for nuking and healing. Even if you have an issue such as not having gear equipped in time due to it, who cares? It's a free spell effectively.
I wouldn't really complain at Red Mage getting a Quick Magic ability (don't they already have one called Chainspell?), at least SE weren't as unoriginal as they were with Dark Knights, Beastmasters, Dragoons and Puppet Masters, who all got effectively the same Set: enhancement. Though I must say I'd have much rather have had it actually enhance Grimoire, rather than just being a mini-Chainspell (maybe SE figured we needed it to go along with our TP-Refresh spell, mini-Convert ability and mini-Composure Stratagem). Since Quick Magic is effectively just Alacrity/Celerity on steroids I figured it would be nice for it to do something similar for all the basic Stratagems (not at the same time of course), but I imagine that would be far to complex to pull off, not to mention a random buffed up Manifestation effect would probably be more trouble than it's worth; +100% damage/cure potency and Minifont would be nice though.

[Merton9999]

@Merton9999
Thanks! As I said, your and Sotek's initial idea is fantastic. I'm not sure if the bonuses I suggested are broken or not but I really want the SCH buffs to be unique and allow us to work well with other buffing jobs. The idea would be for us to never be redunant in a party when it comes to support.

I think that because SCH is a hybrid job it is going to need small buffs to each of its facets as we head toward lv99. Your idea would really take care of our enhancing role in my eyes. The Animus spells and *maybe* Aldoquium need some work too. That would leave healing and nuking to be addressed. Any thoughts? Or are they fine as they are?

I'm also very disappointed with our AF3 set bonus. I just don't find it particularly useful and in some cases it can be a bother. I would have liked a Conserve Charges kind of ability that would occasionally allow for chargeless strategem uses or perhaps an occasional mag crit when casting nukes of the corresponding weather. Hateless spell of the corresponding weather? There were many other routes this could have gone. It seems even odder given that it looks like RDM is getting a quick magic ability in the next update.

No argument from me that Adloquium and Animus need work. I'd be happy with an easy potency boost, happier with some sort of controllable method to enhance them - gear to be simple, or a new JA that bases their potency on current battle conditions.

I agree about the set bonus. I never have a reason to wear all the pieces at once, and wouldn't do so just for a chance at Quick Magic, except for unmodifiable spells like Reraise, Raise, Teleports, Warp. In those cases it's appreciated, but nowhere near the benefit of charge conservation, like you suggested. A set bonus that affected magic potency or hate would have to be pretty powerful to motivate casting in full AF3+2 vs. swapping in nuking pants, for example.

An interesting point about the hateless spell - Apparently the body "Enhances Addendum" effect relates to enmity already, though I don't think anyone has really figured out exactly how, if it even works at all.

The healing and nuking sides have been covered quite a bit in other threads - most seem to agree healing needs to be buffed. I'd like it to be something other than Cure V with the same overall potency/utility but with a little more thought and preparation behind it.

I'm fine with our nuking. Helix 2 would be fun but I don't really care. Immanence is fun and was unexpected - it'll do me on the nuking side to 99.

[Sotek]

Vision
Students in the art of war who employ stratagems to alter the tide of battle along with elemental magic to support their allies and annihilate their foes.

We wish for scholars to further their education in order to become absolute masters of their art, and the latter stages of their research will produce skills comparable to those of a white or black mage whose spells may take time to cast, but compensate with both the bliss and destruction they beget.

Example Adjustments
Adding spells which gradually reduce an enemy's TP or status enhancements.
Adding a spell that can be cast while under the effect of Tabula Rasa.

New enfeebles sound great. Not the Tabula Rasa adjustment I was expecting however, still waiting for it to make used Stratagem effects permanent so I don't have to waste half its duration applying them to actually make it a worthwhile ability.
I hope the lack of mentioning it doesn't mean they're just dusting Libra/Animus under the rug. Since they wasted 15 levels giving us that crap they better make it worthwhile or just out right replace it with something people were actually expecting like Storm IIs.


Adjustments to enfeebling magic
Revisions to job-specific merit point enhancement attributes.

Those have me more hopefully however.
Enfeebling magic adjustments would hopefully take away any ammunition people have had against giving Scholar the damned basic enfeebling spells (as if they ever had any anyway) and job-specific merits getting a change? Colour me hopeful.

Oh and Dancer getting Regain too? Yeah you better buff ours SE.

[Merton9999]

I can't find a job I play that the manifesto actually made me excited about, or that even comes remotely close to what people on the English boards have been asking for.

I don't really care about SCH-specific enfeebles - we have none now - a TP reduction enfeeble and gradual reduction of status enhancements would both be better for RDM imo. I'd much prefer they buff the enhancements spells as has been said so many times on this board that they will ostensibly be paying attention to...

If the spell that can be cast under Tabula Rasa is Ultima, then I'll be excited. If it's just another Addendum for things like Raise 3, for example, that would suck.

I'm guardedly hopeful about adjustments to enfeebling and merits, but we'll see. As usual it's vague enough for me to imagine the best and be mortified when the details are announced.

[Eric]

If the spell that can be cast under Tabula Rasa is Ultima, then I'll be excited. If it's just another Addendum for things like Raise 3, for example, that would suck.


Yes yes yes yes x 10000.

Although it would suck that it'd only be castable under Tabula Rasa. Hopefully it's strong enough to compensate for it. There are always plenty of blue chests & revitalizers lying around.

[Sasaraixx]

The Animus spells need a lot of work done to even begin to become respectable spells. Aldoquium needs nothing more than an extra tic added to it to match Corsairs random version. Healing, I stand by giving Scholar (and Red Mage) Cure V minus the reduced enmity bonus. Nuking we're pretty much fine, Helices could possibly do with a small buff or second tier (which would have happened by now, unless we're getting them as merits in which case that's all we're getting as merits so boo) and thus I'm obliged to mention that Modus Veritus is still broken, SE.

I agree that the Animus spells are a joke and need a lot of work. Instead of a straight -/+ enmity perhaps they should reduce /increase enmity over time. DOT spells are supposedly our niche and that would actually address the problem of what to do when melees have capped their enmity. It would still need to be fairly potent.

Aldoquium only needs one more 1tp per tic and it will be fine. And I also agree that Cure V with enmity changes would be fine on the healing side. I'd like to see a few more white magic spells come our way though.

Nuking. SCH casts so slowly compared to BLM and RDM and Abyssea's infinite MP really haven't helped SCH in the nuking department. I think Blizz V and the like will help and honestly it's been so long since I've done anything outside of Abyssea that it's hard to maintain perspective.


Really? It's effectively Double-Cast since MP isn't an issue for Scholar, that's great for nuking and healing. Even if you have an issue such as not having gear equipped in time due to it, who cares? It's a free spell effectively.
I wouldn't really complain at Red Mage getting a Quick Magic ability (don't they already have one called Chainspell?), at least SE weren't as unoriginal as they were with Dark Knights, Beastmasters, Dragoons and Puppet Masters, who all got effectively the same Set: enhancement. Though I must say I'd have much rather have had it actually enhance Grimoire, rather than just being a mini-Chainspell (maybe SE figured we needed it to go along with our TP-Refresh spell, mini-Convert ability and mini-Composure Stratagem). Since Quick Magic is effectively just Alacrity/Celerity on steroids I figured it would be nice for it to do something similar for all the basic Stratagems (not at the same time of course), but I imagine that would be far to complex to pull off, not to mention a random buffed up Manifestation effect would probably be more trouble than it's worth; +100% damage/cure potency and Minifont would be nice though.

I am probably in the minority on this, but yes I do not care for it. It's too random to be useful. Sure it would be great in the healing department, but you cannot rely on it. When nuking, you might not always want the nuke to be instant cast, depending on what you are fighting and what you are doing. Also, the proc rate is too low to warrant nuking in the full set and and at best you'll be casting in 3/5 pieces (if you've used Ebuillence). And while SCH has great MP management skills, there are plenty of times when you will need to watch your MP. When the ability was initially thought to be 0 mp and quick magic, then I had less of a problem with it. Although even then I would still have preferred some other kind of bonus to our grimoire.

And I think you misunderstood me on the RDM point. I'm not bothered at all that RDM received the ability. I was just pointing out that it was odd that it is our set bonus, yet they have always been the "fast casters" and now they are receiving the job ability. It makes more sense for that job and I'm glad they are getting it.

Perhaps it was SE's way of dealing with our lack of Elemental Celerity or native Fast Cast. I'm just not a fan.

Edit/PS
You are SO RIGHT ABOUT MODUS VERITAS! Why don't they just return it to the way it used to be and not allow multiple SCH's to use the ability? Or if they really want to keep it that way, have only subsequent MV have the opportunity to miss. The first use should be 100%.

[Sotek]

Sure it would be great in the healing department, but you cannot rely on it.

You're not meant to rely on it (though without Cure V, I've had to a few times). Black Mage doesn't rely on theirs to dish out 12k+ nukes every time, it's just a great benefit when it does happen. For Cures it's effectively Divine Seal or a small Curaga IV if you heal two people, how can that possibly be bad? Yes it's not going to get us main healing (though I feel the urge to say that I have main healed a few times and only succeeded because of it), but nothing short of a sizable Light Arts buff is going to do that.


When nuking, you might not always want the nuke to be instant cast, depending on what you are fighting and what you are doing.

Honestly, I can't really see how casting faster would be a major problem when nuking. If that were the case Elemental Celerity wouldn't have been so painful to watch.
Depending on what you're fighting, it goes both ways I imagine. I assume you mean something that can absorb magic, in which case you can cast just before it starts absorbing thanks to Quick Magic, as well as casting before it stops absorbing thanks to Quick Magic. That cancels out unless you had something else in mind, I'm probably missing something obvious.
As for what you're doing, I can only assume you mean something like Immanence and Magic Bursts. I guess it's annoying for it to fudge Immanence, though it's still +100% damage so I wont complain, though I've had it proc on my closing spell a few times with no problem, a benefit in fact since I could Magic Burst with the same spell. As for Magic Bursts;
There's a couple seconds window after the closing Weapon Skill before the Magic Burst window opens, which is about 5 seconds long. Aero V has a (base) cast time of 10 seconds, typically if you're going to do a Magic Burst you'll start casting before the window opens (just before the closing Weapon Skill). Lets say Quick Magic procs and you cast before the closing Weapon Skill, you've got about 8 seconds to somehow reduce a 10 second cast time to a 5 second cast time and still Magic Burst. It's called Alacrity. Counter intuitive that Quick Magic would make that worth using, but I'm just happy it's worth using.
The only issue I could find - unless you care to give an actual example - with it after giving it some consideration was that it requires you do adapt your strategy to use it when it happens, which I guess is a negative for some people but I quite like it. I'd rather have my Set effect have me changing my plan and doing more damage, than just doing more damage. And to be fair it is a fairly logical bonus to Grimoire, even though it's ignoring the MP reduction, Grimoire effectively is Fast Cast.

Really, in terms of damage it's better than Black Mages. Theirs offers a damage multiplier based off Conserve MP, the maximum value that will ever conserve is 50% which I believe translates to +100% damage. They have a chance at +100% damage (it ranges from +6.25% to +100%) where we just get +100% damage; if not more.


And while SCH has great MP management skills, there are plenty of times when you will need to watch your MP.

Speak for yourself. Outside Abyssea maybe, but since "it's been so long since you've done anything outside Abyssea", I'll just ignore that and go straight to saying that the state of MP recovery in Abyssea made me upset about getting Convert; because I rarely need to use it.


Edit/PS
You are SO RIGHT ABOUT MODUS VERITAS! Why don't they just return it to the way it used to be and not allow multiple SCH's to use the ability? Or if they really want to keep it that way, have only subsequent MV have the opportunity to miss. The first use should be 100%.

Sadly I've said it about a dozen times to no avail. Honestly, I try to say it once per thread, if not post. Not that it matters since SE is never going to listen to reason. Stacking it was practically used solely for the damn exploit, yet they left that there and made it worthless altogether.

[Sasaraixx]

You're not meant to rely on it (though without Cure V, I've had to a few times). Black Mage doesn't rely on theirs to dish out 12k+ nukes every time, it's just a great benefit when it does happen. For Cures it's effectively Divine Seal or a small Curaga IV if you heal two people, how can that possibly be bad? Yes it's not going to get us main healing (though I feel the urge to say that I have main healed a few times and only succeeded because of it), but nothing short of a sizable Light Arts buff is going to do that.

Yes. You are right in that none of the set bonuses are meant to be relied on (and if you are needing it to main heal, you should be on WHM). The bonus is too random for me to appreciate it. If it procs on Cure IV, great. It's just as likely to proc on Aurastorm or something equally useless. In the healing aspect, I never said it was bad. In fact, I said it would be great. That's not enough for me not to wish the bonus was something else.




Honestly, I can't really see how casting faster would be a major problem when nuking. If that were the case Elemental Celerity wouldn't have been so painful to watch.

Two entirely different things. Elemental Celerity is not random. You know exactly how fast your spells are going to go off each and every time you cast them. You can't even compare the two.


Depending on what you're fighting, it goes both ways I imagine. I assume you mean something that can absorb magic, in which case you can cast just before it starts absorbing thanks to Quick Magic, as well as casting before it stops absorbing thanks to Quick Magic. That cancels out unless you had something else in mind, I'm probably missing something obvious.
As for what you're doing, I can only assume you mean something like Immanence and Magic Bursts. I guess it's annoying for it to fudge Immanence, though it's still +100% damage so I wont complain, though I've had it proc on my closing spell a few times with no problem, a benefit in fact since I could Magic Burst with the same spell. As for Magic Bursts;
There's a couple seconds window after the closing Weapon Skill before the Magic Burst window opens, which is about 5 seconds long. Aero V has a (base) cast time of 10 seconds, typically if you're going to do a Magic Burst you'll start casting before the window opens (just before the closing Weapon Skill). Lets say Quick Magic procs and you cast before the closing Weapon Skill, you've got about 8 seconds to somehow reduce a 10 second cast time to a 5 second cast time and still Magic Burst. It's called Alacrity. Counter intuitive that Quick Magic would make that worth using, but I'm just happy it's worth using.
The only issue I could find - unless you care to give an actual example - with it after giving it some consideration was that it requires you do adapt your strategy to use it when it happens, which I guess is a negative for some people but I quite like it. I'd rather have my Set effect have me changing my plan and doing more damage, than just doing more damage. And to be fair it is a fairly logical bonus to Grimoire, even though it's ignoring the MP reduction, Grimoire effectively is Fast Cast.

Really, in terms of damage it's better than Black Mages. Theirs offers a damage multiplier based off Conserve MP, the maximum value that will ever conserve is 50% which I believe translates to +100% damage. They have a chance at +100% damage (it ranges from +6.25% to +100%) where we just get +100% damage; if not more.

Immanence, Magic Bursts, monsters absorbing damage, bouncing hate off a duo partner, wasted mp and wasting charges are what I had in mind. Perhaps these are trivial things to you but it's enough to make me wish that our set bonus did something else. Our job is supposed to be a tactical one, so I find it ironic that our "bonus" is one that can mess up our intended strategy and force us to "change our plan." I'd just take more damage.

And I don't think it will translate to more damage than the BLM bonus simply because it won't happen as often. A BLM will likely be 5/5 while nuking, while a SCH will not (unless you want to lower your damage per nuke to increase the chance for the bonus to proc). As I said, with Ebullience up, you'll be nuking in 3/5 of the pieces. Without it, you'll only be in 2/5.


Speak for yourself. Outside Abyssea maybe, but since "it's been so long since you've done anything outside Abyssea", I'll just ignore that and go straight to saying that the state of MP recovery in Abyssea made me upset about getting Convert; because I rarely need to use it.

Obviously I meant outside of Abyssea because even a COR/WHM doesn't have MP problems inside Abyssea. (And pulling that quote out of context doesn't help either :p) People seem to forget that there is a world outside of Abyssea and that our new content will probably be taking us back there. I actually welcome it as it might actually give me a reason to use my SCH.

We are quickly derailing this thread, so let us just agree to disagree. You seem to like the bonus. I wish it were something else. Nothing is going to change my opinion on that. I know that it is not going anywhere though, so I will just have to get used to it.

[Raksha]

Rarely used anymore I think, but if you have to time-nuke stuff then the set bonus will throw you off. And you may have better reaction times than me but whenever set bonus procs I'm usually sitting there with a dumb look on my face thinking "WTF just happened?". It's so rare that I haven't really adapted to it yet. Also When I cast a spell i'm usually planning my next move by rotating the camera or changing macro pages etc. If the mob wakes up while i'm setting up it throws me off guard. Also sometimes you cast a spell when your sleep timers aren't ready yet expecting them to be up when it finishes casting. Set bonus can screw that up too. Lastly I hate it when set bonus procs on a spell that i've used Alacrity/celerity on, wasted charge.

I've basically modified my macros to minimize the chances of set bonus proc'ing. It's a neat Idea, and I don't dislike it on principle, it's just too random to be useful. If it were something that didn't disrupt your rhythm it wouldn't be as huge of a deal.

On-topic: Single target bard-like spells or gain-stat ala rdm/whm spells don't seem particularly exciting.