Thief Update ~ "Utsemi-Souleater-boost like" attack?

[Covenant]

While working on the next "tier" of SATA series of strikes(I mentioned death attack or mortal wound idea) I thought of a weird concept. What if thief players had a move that mimicked moves like boost, utemsi, and Souleater and granted thieves next 2-5 attacks a bonus to "straight damage".
For example, this "new move" would be stackable with SATA. Using a formula much like Souleater(based onHP%, but WITHOUT the HP eating), a thief would gain and additional damage modifier for the next 3-5 attacks. I mentioned Utsemsi, just as a filler for the status effect show(that is how many attacks left before the new move wore out).
Let throw some pretend numbers out. If a thief HP is 1,OOO and let use a 20%HP model. The thief would gain and additional 250-333 points of damage(depending on whether it's a factor of 5 strikes or 3 strikes). Or just use souleater's formual of 10% for the next 3-5 hits. Remember without the HP drain effect of Souleater.
This would add a significant chunk of damage to thieves output and with a decent recast 5min or so) sorta fair.
To throw in a balance much like Utsemi this move could be potentially cancelled by AOE damage.
Personally, "3 next strikes" at a 20% would be nice. A player could use 2 strikes on SA and TA, and still have another attack waiting. Or, SATA a multi-hit weapons skill and stack all 3 attacks on the first three hits of the multi-strike. This would probably help a paladin stack enmity on itself as in old style play strategy.

[DebbieGibson]

Are you gonna do this every day from now on?

[Covenant]

No? Why do you take the time for a silly question? If you dont like the suggestion you critic it or change it to something you can see as useful. Obviously, I thought the idea was fun and offered it out to the nether. I could point to other posts where my wishful thinking was proven true. Namely, I was one of the first to not only call the lvl 75 break, but included a prototype model of Abyssea.

[Mirage]

As if not many others thought they would eventually break the level cap.

[StingRay104]

I'm a DRK main and I was randomly checkin the forums to see what other jobs would like to see and I ran across your suggestion. So from what I understand is you want to have a more powerful version of souleater available for thf? Keep in mind that drks do attack slower so with scythe we don't get much more than 5 attacks with souleater up (Not counting atmas because well they are atmas), and you want no negative effect. Well I'll give you credit for what you are trying to do in that you want thf to have more dmg capabilities but please leave the damage based off of hp concept to us drk's with our souleater. Now heres an idea why not make your ability have increased dmg based on TH lvl of mob? Or perhaps more damge if you attack while invisible? All in all I think you need to give this some more thought and try not to steal stuff from other jobs (yes I realize your a thf) because what works for drk doesn't work for other jobs.

P.S. I also play sam and for years I would tell ppl that they were ridiculous for spending 3m+ on a Hagun because it would eventually become obsolete, and I too called the lvl 99 cap because it was originally intended to be the cap they just kinda got caught at 75 and couldn't figure out how to get free from 75 til recently.

[JackDaniels]

Missleading title is missleading..

[Covenant]

I didn't want to necessarily overshadow Souleater. Was just using these terms to describe the effect for a "technical" view. The actual HP%/damage did seem high to me also. But, with stoneskin up most Darkknight get a free weaponskill up. Not to mention average DRK players tend to remove Souleater after initial use unless "serving something".

I simply meant 3, numbered attacks which gave a bonus to damage by a %. Adding 10% isn't all that strong. If a player has 2k HP, that only 200 extra damage on next 3 hits for a total of 600 extra damage. If a regular gear thief uses eversicration for 700-800 pt damage, then this move would only contribute 600 damage making a total of 1.5k. That's if a player has 2k in HP. I think I only have 1,300hp or so as THF? My total damage would then be only 390pt of extra damage. If used for regular SATA, a THF strikes for 80pts, with SA or TA for 200damage each? Adding 130 to either strike is hardly game breaking.

With /DRK this ability could be even more interesting. I didn't create an actual name for this move just used the concepts of other existing /JA. I like to point to the RDM, sch, and BLM argument...was the difference between fire III for them?

[StingRay104]

But its still a souleater ripoff, and the whole consumes hp for damage thing is more of a drk ability than a thf ability. Also I know its not much to say but drk can at least semi cure themselves via drains to help out souleater while thf kinda gets a little screwed if they do that. I just think your tryin to make thf/drk as just how thf operates which isn't right, thf should be thf as drk should be drk. As for ideas on how to improve thf I have no clue, I'm not a thf (37thf) and as far as I know thf seems to be doing pretty decent damage nowadays, but I'm definitely against a job getting a blatant ripoff of an already existing ability, says the guy who has last resort (I know how contradicting that sounds but atleast with war and berserk, drk wasn't apart of the game at the time otherwise they would have given drk berserk instead and pld defender).

[katz]

Hmm Ive started leveling Thf and have noticed that the ranged weapons dont tie into the ammo. Level 40-50 its mainly arrows that you get but there isnt a level 40-50 bow. There is however lots of crossbows but no bolts in the same range. Is this a trend all the way up the levels?

[Nebo]

The status bolts that are useful to THF scale up as you level. The Defense Dwon effect of acid bolts, for example is percentage based. The amount drained from bloody Bolts is modded by INT. They are still useful even at level 90.

The only time I have really used a bow is for Paralysis arrows at higher levels. They are a nice addition to the ranged attack utility THF has.

If you are looking for a ranged DD option, I think we have some guns we can use in that level? I'm not sure though.

Edit:

Some examples:

Delux Carbine (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/17274/deluxe-carbine)

Seadog Gun (http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18710/seadog-gun)

Personally though, I'd stick with something like Tracker's Bow (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tracker%27s_Bow_%2B1) or Arbalest (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Arbalest_%2B1) and use status bolts.

[Karbuncle]

If you're goal is Status bolts and status bolts only, Base damage on the weapon has no effect on the Status Bolts effect. So weapons like

Ziska's Crossbow:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ziska%27s_Crossbow

Or

Octant:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Octant

Is your best bet. Low-delay and Ranged Accuracy bonus. The Low delay means you can fire the bolts quicker and get back to meleeing, also means you can fire more often (Bloody Bolts!). Ranged accuracy bonuses help you not miss >_>

[noodles355]

Keep in mind that drks do attack slower so with scythe we don't get much more than 5 attacks with souleater up (Not counting atmas because well they are atmas)What? If you're only getting 5 swings per souleater then you should probably stop meleeing in full hecatomb. Drks swing faster than once every 20 seconds.

[StingRay104]

What? If you're only getting 5 swings per souleater then you should probably stop meleeing in full hecatomb. Drks swing faster than once every 20 seconds.

Souleater lasts a minute so therefore 5 swings at 20 secs a swing equals 1 min 40 secs, and I was going off no atma scythe swing data, I have a caladbolg so of course I can swing faster than that but that wasn't my point.

[noodles355]

Don't ask me why I thought there was 100 seconds in a minute.

That aside, taking a 513 scythe with 25% haste (gear) you will have effectively 385 delay which is one swing every 6.4 seconds. And that's without haste spell or hasso, which you should have. With them you're looking at one swing every 4.3 seconds. To swing 5 times in 60 seconds you would need to have 720 delay. 40-41% slow would make you swing at that speed. Hecatomb Set is 43% Slow.

My point stands.

[StingRay104]

lol I thought you mighta been a little confused with your timing, and I'll be the first to admit that my data with scythe is a little old, but the point is you don't get as many hits as you'd think off it, and to give thf a souleater ripoff for near full potency is just wrong. I just think thf needs to find its own way of doing extra damage, hell theres been people in drk thread trying to ripoff sneak attack, its fairly funny. I just wish SE would stop buffing war to ridiculous levels of awesome and spread the love to some much needed jobs, coughrngsmnpupcough.

[Covenant]

Two things....thieves don't necessarily have the same HP as a Darkknight. This means the overall bonus based on HP% is lower by more than a degree. Also, genrally thieves are equipped with daggers....Which I think are roughly 1/4 the damage of a current Darkknight scythe damage. Not to mention I'm seeing more and more twilight scythes around...death anyone?

Giving thieves and additional 600 points damage(3 attacks) every 5 mins isn't going to overbalance anything. Don't forget the hate enmity this will generate on a thief, they'll have to watch more and more what they're doing and be more restrainted during certain fights.

And as someone else pointed out, I'm capping extra attacks at 3 only, whereas a Darkknight with full HP and haste can do more swings...and if TP build more weapon strikes within their 1min(60sec) Souleater.

[StingRay104]

First point, if you want to use souleater sub drk, it would work well with your multihit ws's.

Second and still the main point of my original post on this matter, what ever made you think that thf was a sacrifices hp to deal extra damage job, that is a drk specific ability. Just like I get upset everytime someone on drk forums suggests giving drk a sneak attack ripoff ja I'm gonna say the same thing, if your suggestions don't fit the job then think of something else. If you wanted to make it an increase to ws damage based on th level i'd say hey thats a good idea, as long as it fits the thf job then go for it.

Third, never said anything about a balance issue, except if a you went thf/drk you'd have access to 2 souleaters effectively, which is unfair to drk seeing how its their thing.

Imho you need to focus more on increasing thfs ability to crit things hard and control enmity, and less on trying to take ideas from other jobs, I say the same thing to drks who want t4 nukes because its just silly to expect things that work for one job to work for another.

[Kihrre]

Solution to THF Souleater -- Why not just 'steal' it from DRKs?

Greed - Steals a beneficial status effect from a party member
Recast: 5:00 minutes
Duration: 1:00 minute

XD