Mizuharu
06-21-2011, 10:03 PM
At the time I had originally posted this, I didn't have enough arguments to support the post. But I let it run as a discussion over in the PUP forum area and decided to repost here. (While people frown on [To the Devs] tags, I have noticed they reply more times than not to topics that begin with it.) I apologize for the repost, but here it is.
Ever since the update last year that increased Puppetmaster's combat rating up from 225 cap (@Lv.75) to 256(@Lv.75), many had hoped that we'd be able to access Asuran Fists. Now, I know Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite do more damage than Asuran Fists anyway, and I'm most likely blowing hot air posting this, but here are a few arguments for why we should be allowed to quest for this Weapon Skill...
1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.
2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)
3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.
---a) Empyreal Arrow - RNG
---b) Decimation - WAR BST DRK RNG
---c) Black Halo - PLD WHM BLU WAR MNK BLM SMN SCH
---d) Evisceration - THF COR RDM DNC WAR RNG BRD BST NIN
---e) Steel Cyclone - WAR DRK
---f) Tachi: Kasha - SAM
---g) Ground Strike - DRK WAR PLD
---h) Asuran Fists - MNK
---i) Detonator - RNG COR
---j) Impulse Drive - DRG SAM WAR
---k) Spiral Hell - DRK WAR BST
---l) Retribution - PLD WAR MNK SMN BLM WHM BRD SCH
---m) Savage Blade - WAR RDM BLU PLD COR DRK
So I ask again; why isn't PUP allowed to obtain Asuran Fists?
(Arguments thus far)
1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only. (But Dancing Edge/Shark Bite use to be THF only and then DNC was added on. "But those aren't WSNM WSs" Fine. Detonator. Originally RNG only, COR was added on due to them getting the combat skill requirement. Speaking of COR, they were added to Savage Blade and Evisceration also. I realize they reached those skill levels originally when the job was first released, but the 225 on PUP was a joke. (Which is why it was raised last year, no?))
2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)
3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))
4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)
5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)
6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)
7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)
8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)
9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.
And, I can't believe I almost forgot about this, what about Gungnir? It is the javelin wielded by Odin, and yet Odin is seen wielding a completely different polearm, which he calls Gungnir. (In the Dev Team's defense though, they did make the relic weapons before they planned on making Odin a monster. And while it is not called Gungnir directly, they are names the polearm was also known by.)
All in all, if they need to make a loophole around lore, they can.)
Sorry for the wall of text.
Ever since the update last year that increased Puppetmaster's combat rating up from 225 cap (@Lv.75) to 256(@Lv.75), many had hoped that we'd be able to access Asuran Fists. Now, I know Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite do more damage than Asuran Fists anyway, and I'm most likely blowing hot air posting this, but here are a few arguments for why we should be allowed to quest for this Weapon Skill...
1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.
2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)
3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.
---a) Empyreal Arrow - RNG
---b) Decimation - WAR BST DRK RNG
---c) Black Halo - PLD WHM BLU WAR MNK BLM SMN SCH
---d) Evisceration - THF COR RDM DNC WAR RNG BRD BST NIN
---e) Steel Cyclone - WAR DRK
---f) Tachi: Kasha - SAM
---g) Ground Strike - DRK WAR PLD
---h) Asuran Fists - MNK
---i) Detonator - RNG COR
---j) Impulse Drive - DRG SAM WAR
---k) Spiral Hell - DRK WAR BST
---l) Retribution - PLD WAR MNK SMN BLM WHM BRD SCH
---m) Savage Blade - WAR RDM BLU PLD COR DRK
So I ask again; why isn't PUP allowed to obtain Asuran Fists?
(Arguments thus far)
1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only. (But Dancing Edge/Shark Bite use to be THF only and then DNC was added on. "But those aren't WSNM WSs" Fine. Detonator. Originally RNG only, COR was added on due to them getting the combat skill requirement. Speaking of COR, they were added to Savage Blade and Evisceration also. I realize they reached those skill levels originally when the job was first released, but the 225 on PUP was a joke. (Which is why it was raised last year, no?))
2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)
3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))
4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)
5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)
6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)
7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)
8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)
9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.
And, I can't believe I almost forgot about this, what about Gungnir? It is the javelin wielded by Odin, and yet Odin is seen wielding a completely different polearm, which he calls Gungnir. (In the Dev Team's defense though, they did make the relic weapons before they planned on making Odin a monster. And while it is not called Gungnir directly, they are names the polearm was also known by.)
All in all, if they need to make a loophole around lore, they can.)
Sorry for the wall of text.