"Extend time" in la theine abyssea...

[Raxiaz]

So I did this today, allowed me to use only one stone (+30 mins), applied my increased boost from abyssites, but when i hit ok, it said total time: 120 min, and then i was given only 21 mins because when i entered 99 mins is what i had originally. This in essence wasted a stone for me.

I had 17 mins left before.

I consider this a bug and no matter how quirky it is I'd like it fixed.

Edit:

I'm going to restate that the "fix" here needs to be that the NPC accurately tells you how much time you're going to get from your traverser stone by using the "extend time" feature, if you're coming back to them after a while in abyssea. Also, if you're not going to get at least 50% of the traverser stone's base worth (15 min), then the "Extend time" feature should not even show. That's all I'd ask.
Post #47
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10032-Extend-time-in-la-theine-abyssea...?p=128511&viewfull=1#post128511

[RAIST]

That is how it is supposed to work. You can only add time with stones during your initial 120 minutes of time. Once you hit 120 minutes of requested/earned time, you can't add any more time with stones. The only way to get more than 120 minutes in one session is to use time extensions from blue chests.

From the SE guide posted when Abyssea was added:
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/6023/detail.html

Visitant Status
The "visitant" status is essential for those wishing to journey within Abyssea. You will be permitted to remain there only while this status is active. Upon arrival in Abyssea, speak with a "Conflux Surveyor" NPC posted nearby to be granted visitant status in exchange for traverser stones. One stone will allow you a 30-minute stay (Earth time), with 120 minutes being the maximum permitted duration. Methods exist that allow players to extend their visitant duration
(the method for going beyond 120 minutes is the TE's from chests)

The system gets explained in further detail on the main Abyssea wiki page in the section on Traverser stones and Visitant time:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Abyssea#Traverser_Stones_and_Visitant_Time

■If you leave an Abyssea area with more than 120 minutes of Visitant time accrued, the excess time over 120 minutes is essentially lost, as it is not possible to reobtain Visitant status with a starting value of more than 120 minutes.
■The game makes a record of the total of how much Visitant time you have started an Abyssea run with, plus how much time you have received from time extension chests on your current visit. If this total is less than 120 minutes, you will be able to return to the Conflux Surveyor and extend your current Visitant status by exchanging more Traverser Stones.
■Warning: Any time granted by additional stones is added to the above total, which still may not exceed the initial starting value of 120 minutes. If adding a stone exceeds the 120 minute limit, any "overflow" time is lost. (Example: You start an Abyssea run with 80 minutes of Visitant time, get three 10-minute time extension chests which increases the total to 110 minutes, and decide to exchange another stone -- this stone will only grant you 10 minutes of Visitant time, regardless of how much time you had remaining.)

There was a bit of a debate over whether this is a bug or not in another thread. This is how it is designed to work, people just don't understand how it works. Basically, you can only add time with stones so long as you have not requested saved time, used stones, or gotten time from chests that when combined do not total 120 minutes. If when you go to add time with a stone and the time added would exceed that first 120 minute limit, the excess time is simply discarded because you cannot use stones to go past that first 120 minutes. You can only go past that 120 minute limit by getting time from chests.

So, in your case, you went in and requested your saved time of 99 minutes. The system told you you had 99 minutes of time applied. This left you 21 more minutes until you hit that 21 minute cap. Not sure what your note about 17 minutes means exactly...I am guessing you ran your time down to 17 minutes left and did not get any TE chests to add more time and went back to add more time with a stone. You still had only requested/earned 99 of your first 120 minutes (because you had not gotten any TE from chests). The system would only allow you to use one stone to extend your time, since after using one you would meet/exceed your 120 minute initial cap. You used that stone to extend time, but it would have put you at 129 minutes, exceeding the cap. The extra 9 minutes over the 120 minute cap was discarded, giving you only 21 extra minutes. What you needed to do was to exit the maw, saving your 17 minutes and then come back in. This would have reset your per session cap to 120 minutes, and you could have requested your saved 17 minutes, leaving you with 103 minutes to request/earn with stones or TE. The system would have then let you use up to 4 stones (if you had 4 on you), since you would not have exceeded the 120 minute cap for this new session until you spent your 4th stone at that point. Of course, you would only want to spend 3 for 90 minutes (if you don't have any abyssites granting bonus minutes, in which case you may not want to use 3).
Edit:
The key points to remember: you cannot use stones to go past your first 120 minutes. So, if you have all abyssites of sojourn that add 18 minutes per stone--you never, under any circumstances, want to spend more than 2 stones in one session , as that totals 96 minutes. The system will tell you how much bonus time you are adding per stone with these abyssites, and you will have a chance to confirm you want to spend the stones. Means you will need to do a little math real quick when adding time so you can make sure you don't overspend stones and go past your initial 120 minutes. It's best to do this up front when you first enter. That way if your time is running out, you always know to exit and come back in and add time with a fresh slate.

[Raxiaz]

Well then I think they should not allow us to "Extend time" in the first place. I tend to get my time as close as possible to 120 as soon as I walk into Abyssea. For this kind of system to be in place makes no sense, from my perspective. And if I can extend time, it should count towards my current time remaining. Not what I had when I entered the area.

That just makes the most logical sense to me. I can't conjure any situations right now where this would be beneficial...

[RAIST]

It is not meant to be beneficial, it is meant to be restrictive. Just like Limbus and Dynamis. We are not meant to simply live in Abyssea for the sake of doing it--you have to earn the ability to stay longer by getting TE chests to drop.

Edit: I was adding this while you were puting up your second post, not sure if you caught it, so pasting it here as well:

The key points to remember: you cannot use stones to go past your first 120 minutes. So, if you have all abyssites of sojourn that add 18 minutes per stone--you never, under any circumstances, want to spend more than 2 stones in one session , as that totals 96 minutes. The system will tell you how much bonus time you are adding per stone with these abyssites, and you will have a chance to confirm you want to spend the stones. Means you will need to do a little math real quick when adding time so you can make sure you don't overspend stones and go past your initial 120 minutes. It's best to do this up front when you first enter. That way if your time is running out, you always know to exit and come back in and add time with a fresh slate.

[Raxiaz]

It is restrictive, you can only have so many stones on you at once. :)

I understand the reasoning behind it, but that just makes me wish it didn't exist at all. Those unknowing of how the "Extend time" function work could suffer. I myself only got 17 minutes out of a stone that would've been 42 minutes. That's less than half of the stone's worth.

I just don't think it's right to allow that option when it's not really doing anything in the first place. If someone wanted to extend time, they'd want or need to do it at the start of abyssea. In other words, their lights aren't built yet, and they can exit and re-enter to turn in stones.

No point in turning in stones if it's going to return less than 50% of its value, IMO.

[Raksha]

It is restrictive, you can only have so many stones on you at once. :)

I understand the reasoning behind it, but that just makes me wish it didn't exist at all. Those unknowing of how the "Extend time" function work could suffer. I myself only got 17 minutes out of a stone that would've been 42 minutes. That's less than half of the stone's worth.

I just don't think it's right to allow that option when it's not really doing anything in the first place. If someone wanted to extend time, they'd want or need to do it at the start of abyssea. In other words, their lights aren't built yet, and they can exit and re-enter to turn in stones.

No point in turning in stones if it's going to return less than 50% of its value, IMO.

I agree with this post 100%.

[RAIST]

No point in turning in stones if it's going to return less than 50% of its value, IMO.
unless you have fallen below the 5 minutes required to save time on exit, wohich would also prevent you from re-entering for an hour. You could trash that stone for the partial time to get above that 5 minutes to save your time, exit, and come back in to use stones and keep going.

The catch is, if you plan to bbe in there that long--you SHOULD be getting TE's, or be prepared to exit and re-enter eventually.

Not trying to be an @$$ about it, but it boils down to RTFM. It has been explained in detail in various places already. The information is out there, and it is common knowledge to those who have been doing it for a while. If you would have asked the "veterans", they could have explained it. But, you unfortunately didn't do the research beforehand or ask someone to walk you through it all (or they didn't do a good enough job explaining it). So, you had to learn the hard way. At least it only cost you one stone, which will be replaced in short order--especially if you have the abyssites reducing regeneration time (or have some banked up when you get the abyssites--it gets recalculated and you get free stones when you get the abyssites).

[Raksha]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9807-requesting-extended-stay-bugged (locked thread)

Just in case anyone cares enough about this.

[RAIST]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9807-requesting-extended-stay-bugged (locked thread)

Just in case anyone cares enough about this. Even after all the explanation in that thread, at the end...you still didn't seem to be getting the point that after adding the first 120 minutes, (or within less than one stones worth of time of 120 minutes added) you shoud not be adding time with stones as you will be wasting the time on those stones. From your last post in that thread:


Also, if you go in and add 4 stones (120 minutes) then spend 110 minutes without getting TEs (you will have 10 minutes left) then try to add another stone it will give you +0 minutes

[Raksha]

Even after all the explanation in that thread, at the end...you still didn't seem to be getting the point that after adding the first 120 minutes, (or within less than one stones worth of time of 120 minutes added) you shoud not be adding time with stones as you will be wasting the time on those stones. From your last post in that thread:

You don't seem to be getting that I don't give a *** how the system currently works, I was arguing for the way it SHOULD work.

Grrrr I'm not gonna start all this *** again, I've said everthing I needed to say in that other thread.

[RAIST]

Actually, that argument was over the description of it being a bug, and not whether you agreed with the design. You later started calling it retarded, while defending your statement in agreement to it being a bug. And that is the same issue here.

The OP stated "I consider this a bug and no matter how quirky it is I'd like it fixed". And again... I am trying to explain that it is not a bug, but in fact the way it was designed to work. This player just was not properly informed as to how it works, and so made the mistake of requesting 30 minutes of time and going over the cap and lost the value of that stone. now he/she, and anyone else who may read this thread can see the documentation on just how it is designed to work and should be the wiser from now on.

[RAIST]

oh, and this thing about adding a stone and getting 0 time, haven't seen that happen. Just tried to make it do it. Went in with 74 minutes, used a 48 minutes stone to push it to 120 minutes. When back to the confulx surveyor and it wouldn't give me an option to add a stone, and I still have 2 more on me. So until I see evidence of adding a stone for 0 minutes when you capped out 120 minutes with stones, I'll have to question that claim.

even went to a conflux, killed a tiger and came back when I was down to 115 minutes... still won't let me spend a stone. So, as far as I can tell... it is working as intended.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What SE should have done, so people would complain less, is to show the value you would gain from the extention instead of the faulse value potrayed. I.e. One stone is 30min + 12(Or however much you have.) = 42. System says, "Extent your visit but 42min? You have extended your visit by 14min." Instead it should say in the first place that you would only gain 14 to begin with.

That or, people could just pay attention to how much they had when they came in...

[Alkalinehoe]

You don't seem to be getting that I don't give a *** how the system currently works, I was arguing for the way it SHOULD work.

Grrrr I'm not gonna start all this *** again, I've said everthing I needed to say in that other thread.
No, it SHOULD stay the same. Maybe you should stop sucking and get TEs, cause the only reason you should be timing out is if you are killing extremely slow.

[Saefinn]

Yes it was originally argued that it was a bug, but when revealed that it wasn't, it doesn't that somebody feels there needs to be a change. Bug or intended feature, the guy wants it out. He got some information wrong but it doesn't change the point of the argument.

Whilst it would make it easier, but pointless in my opinion. E.G. I might go in with 120 mins and carry 3 stones, I'll stay in for 90 mins with 30 mins of time left over then I might decide to stay longer and I can either: go back to the conflux surveyor and give him more stones or get some TE to save wasting stones. It's what most people seem to do - e.g. in between NM pops go off and kills mobs for TE. In a party there's a good chance people will be doing TEs anyway. Soloing is the only case where I go for the former option. If I've got 120 mins and 3 stones, I can be in Aby for a long time and it's not as if I can't warp back for more. Sure it interrupts lights but they're not hard to rebuild.

In my opinion it's a part of the Abyssea experience. But of course, you may wish to disagree, which is fine because you don't have to agree. I'm not fascist after all.

[Raxiaz]

I don't care if it's not a bug. I don't care if it's "working as intended." I don't care about any of that crap.

The point is, a traverser stone should not be wasted due to a flawed system. I don't care if it's to place restrictions - the restriction should be that there is no "extend time" feature from the Conflux Surveyor. +17 minutes from a 42-minute stone makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense to me to have the "extend time" feature to "extend time" based on what you originally had after giving the Surveyor some stones at the start. If it's not going to give at least 50% of its value in time, what's the point of using a traverser stone?

Yes, it boils down to how informed/experience you are. I can assure you I will never, ever, ever use the "extend time" feature like this because it's pointless and wasteful. The function should not exist. I don't care if it's "working as intended" because quite frankly it's doing nothing to benefit anyone. Just don't exist any more. If I want more time and had to go back to the Surveyor for it, I might as well just enter and re-enter. If I was in such a situation, I'd be duo'ing... just like I said I was. I tried to get lights up, but that wasn't working out so well for me. Sorry for "sucking." Sorry for wanting to just "play the game." *eyeroll*

I have all 3 celerity abyssites. I don't care about traverser stones on my characters. What I care about is the fact that the function is poorly explained in-game and opens the door for people to waste their stones.

+0 time can occur. Go in, you have ~30 minutes remaining from last time. Give two stones, +30 min each, giving a total of 90 minutes. Go out, do your thing, get a bunch of TEs, have well over 120+min, and if you go back you can "extend time." Doing so gives you +0 minutes. You can do this because as far as I know it calculates your "current time" based on what you had when you initially traded stones.

How does it make sense? How is it logical? How is it a balanced system? It's just stupid and poorly executed, in my opinion. The function, should not exist at all. Bug or not.

[hiko]

If it's not going to give at least 50% of its value in time, what's the point of using a traverser stone?



+0 time can occur. Go in, you have ~30 minutes remaining from last time. Give two stones, +30 min each, giving a total of 90 minutes. Go out, do your thing, get a bunch of TEs, have well over 120+min, and if you go back you can "extend time." Doing so gives you +0 minutes. You can do this because as far as I know it calculates your "current time" based on what you had when you initially traded stones.

How does it make sense? How is it logical? How is it a balanced system? It's just stupid and poorly executed, in my opinion. The function, should not exist at all. Bug or not.

working as intended etc...

what's the point of using a stones if it gives you less than 50% of its value in time? simple being able to exit and reenter without waiting if you went under 5min remaining. else goto Else:

+0 time can NOT occur, in your situation it wil offer you to use no stone.

it's logical and balanced because it "force" people(who have 0spell or cant mele shit) to team up to cap pearl and azure
if you cap azure and pearl and still time out, goto Else:

Else: SUCK LESS!!

[Raxiaz]

And to take away the "Extend time" option fixes the issue because (1) people won't waste traverser stones; (2) you still have to team up to get pearl and azure lights.

I can't see why anyone would want to use this feature in the first place.

[Zagen]

I like the fact that I can run in with say 90 minutes and do random NMs if I lose track of time and get the 5 minute warning I can run back add time even if the stone is partially wasted I don't care it gets me above the 5min limit allowing me to exit, reenter, and add more time to keep farming NMs without building TEs or having to wait 1 hour to go back in. Seems pretty cool to me.

As to it being confusing I can see that the first time you ever use the system if you don't pay attention to how it is implemented.

[Raksha]

oh, and this thing about adding a stone and getting 0 time, haven't seen that happen. Just tried to make it do it. Went in with 74 minutes, used a 48 minutes stone to push it to 120 minutes. When back to the confulx surveyor and it wouldn't give me an option to add a stone, and I still have 2 more on me. So until I see evidence of adding a stone for 0 minutes when you capped out 120 minutes with stones, I'll have to question that claim.

even went to a conflux, killed a tiger and came back when I was down to 115 minutes... still won't let me spend a stone. So, as far as I can tell... it is working as intended.


It may have been fixed, It was a long time ago when i remember that happening, but regardless You use stones to go over 120 minutes, what i'm talking about is going in with 30 minutes, getting 9 TEs, and then going to extend time.

My memory could have failed me, dunno.

EDIT:

Last edited by Jhanaka (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/posthistory.php?p=126933); Today at 08:53 AM. Reason: Vulgar Comments

lol, I'm gonna go through every thread I find now and report 'vulgar' comments'

[Kimble]

Basically, im reading "wahhh i was to dumb to figure it out and use my brain!"

[RAIST]

I have yet to get it to trip up and give me 0 time on a stone. Tested it again, got 120 minutes and burned down 30, leaving me 90 and got a TE. Went back to surveyor.... and it wouldn't allow me to use a stone.

If it's not going to give at least 50% of its value in time, what's the point of using a traverser stone?
Have you even read the posts in this thread? Several have given a very valid reason to use a partial stone.

As for it not being clearly defined.....what is so hard to understand about you are restricted to requesting up to your first 120 minutes time? Granted, the initial explanation from SE ON THE DAY OF RELEASE ROUGHLY ONE YEAR AGO (6/22/2010) didn't fully explain how you could potentially trash a stone, but they did say you were capped at 120 minutes--there have been many sites giving better details that more accurately explain it. It has been explained also in countless posts on all the FFXI forums. People who have been doing this for a while understand it and will explain it. We regularly talk about int in our LS because of new people coming in that ask about how to do abyssea, so we explain it to them. Told someone about the time restrictions just last night in fact--because he asked if he could go back and add time.

And this isn't the first time this type of system has been implemented. It's NOTHING NEW. I have only done limbus TWICE, and NEVER done Dynamis...and I have a general grasp of how time works in both of those systems (which is likely what led to how this was set up--find it interesting there is a 120 minute limit here also). But, if I remember right, Dynamis starts with 60 minutes and has a HARD CAP of 120 minutes. At least with this system, you are allowed to go PAST 120 minutes with chests.

Some people don't like the rules. Fine. That's their perogative. But to jump up and down and treat it like it is bugged isn't right, and should be corrected when someone tries to report it as a bug (this post tried to do that). I don't think it's even right to say it is flawed because you can loose time if you use one that puts you past 120 minutes. We were told up front from day one that we have a 120 minute cap--meaning you can't request any time past that 120 minutes. We were also told from day one that an alternative method existed for extending past that first 120 minutes--meaning you can't use your stones to go past 120 minutes, you have to EARN that extra time.

Sufficient notice of the rules and the penalties that may be incurred was given. Ignorance of the rules does not exempt someone from those rules. Suffering a penalty for going against those rules doesn't necessarliy mean the rules are wrong. Now that you have been duly informed of the rules, restrictions, and potential penalties--spend your stones at your own risk.

[Raxiaz]

Ok, but when I'm giving the person a stone for extended time, they should accurately tell me how much time I'm getting from it. Instead of "120 min." *** happens, I'm not complaining about that. But you have to be *** retarded to tell me that it's OK for the game NOT to tell me how much time I'm really getting from the stone, much later down the line.

Ok *** these forums... I'm sick and tired of being treated like I'm some kind of *** child. It's like you guys don't comprehend what I'm saying. Maybe y'all are the *** childs, not me. I KNOW I have a 120 minute cap from stones. I KNOW THAT. But the "extend time" option is so *** ambiguous and doesn't even accurately tell me anything useful. That's my problem with the function now. Removal? No need, but better portrayal of what I'm getting from my stones: {Yes, please.}

I may not like the rules whole-heartedly but I'll respect them and abide by them graciously, WHEN the game correctly tells me what the *** is going on when I'm "extending time." I should not have to direct myself to a separate webpage explaining the option in depth. The NPC should simply tell me how much *** time I'm getting from my *** stone.

I don't care if it's working as intended it's still flawed and needs an adjustment.

[Kimble]

Well put it this way, if you start out with 90 mins. You KNOW the most you are going to get from a stone is 30 mins. If you get 1 TE, you KNOW the most you are going to get is 20 mins, and if you get 2 TE you KNOW the most you are going to get is 10 mins.

Im not sure how that is hard.

[hiko]

if time spent since you enter+ time remaining >120 min you cant extend status
if x=time spent+time remaining you can extend status by x

[RAIST]

Well put it this way, if you start out with 90 mins. You KNOW the most you are going to get from a stone is 30 mins. If you get 1 TE, you KNOW the most you are going to get is 20 mins, and if you get 2 TE you KNOW the most you are going to get is 10 mins.

Im not sure how that is hard.

This. It is the player's responsibility to track their time. Here's an absurd analogy for you to consider:

Install FFXI, read the license agreements, payment policies, etc. and register a credit card for payment. After playing the game for a while, and after SE announces end of the month billing will be taking place and announces the dates certain services will be down during the billing period like the do every month, your account gets suspended because the account had insufficient funds. You start to moan and demand the system be fixed because you weren't notified exactly when the payment was going to go thorugh. You demand that from now on, SE send you an letter 15 days in advance, and email 10 days in advance, and a phone call at least 72 hours in advance notifying you the exact Date and time that your account will be debited so you can make sure that $12.95 USD is there when they process payment. You were duly notified well in advance that billing happens every month around the first of the month when you initially subscribed. Notices are routinely put up with the range of dates for when the billing process would be run--you even get a notice of the pending billing when you log into the game. It was YOUR responsibility to make sure that account had sufficient funds available during those specific time frames.

[Raksha]

Basically, im reading "wahhh i was to dumb to figure it out and use my brain!"

I figured out how it works the first time I used, which was waaay back when visions was release. I haven't used it since.

Everyone I know in-game who has used the menu used it once, realized it doesnt work the way they thought it did, AND NEVER USED IT AGAIN.

"Oops i'm under 5 minutes let me add a stone" falls into the suck less category.

This is the way it should work:

As long as you are under 120 minutes you should be able to add a stone to extend your time, no matter how many stones you've already used, or how many TEs you've gotten. Your stone supply is limited, so this isn't a way to stay in abyssea forever without TEs. The max you would be able to do would be 120 (initial time) + 6*48 =408 minutes.

It's not a huge deal, and most people probably still won't even use it, but it'd be more useful than the current system.

[hiko]

I figured out how it works the first time I used, which was waaay back when visions was release. I haven't used it since.

Everyone I know in-game who has used the menu used it once, realized it doesnt work the way they thought it did, AND NEVER USED IT AGAIN.

"Oops i'm under 5 minutes let me add a stone" falls into the suck less category.

This is the way it should work:

As long as you are under 120 minutes you should be able to add a stone to extend your time, no matter how many stones you've already used, or how many TEs you've gotten. Your stone supply is limited, so this isn't a way to stay in abyssea forever without TEs. The max you would be able to do would be 120 (initial time) + 6*48 =408 minutes.

It's not a huge deal, and most people probably still won't even use it, but it'd be more useful than the current system.

so i should be able to get out from xp pt with 370 min , go sleep 6h while i left my char in aby, wake, add stones and start solo kill stuff with all light caped, .....

[Raxiaz]

This. It is the player's responsibility to track their time. Here's an absurd analogy for you to consider:

Install FFXI, read the license agreements, payment policies, etc. and register a credit card for payment. After playing the game for a while, and after SE announces end of the month billing will be taking place and announces the dates certain services will be down during the billing period like the do every month, your account gets suspended because the account had insufficient funds. You start to moan and demand the system be fixed because you weren't notified exactly when the payment was going to go thorugh. You demand that from now on, SE send you an letter 15 days in advance, and email 10 days in advance, and a phone call at least 72 hours in advance notifying you the exact Date and time that your account will be debited so you can make sure that $12.95 USD is there when they process payment. You were duly notified well in advance that billing happens every month around the first of the month when you initially subscribed. Notices are routinely put up with the range of dates for when the billing process would be run--you even get a notice of the pending billing when you log into the game. It was YOUR responsibility to make sure that account had sufficient funds available during those specific time frames.

No, what I would demand is for a server that handles payments and one that handles registration.

I can assure you I will never use the feature again. But from the start, it should tell you how many minutes you're actually getting from the stone. Arguing against this is just ignorant.

[Kimble]

1) I thought you were done posting?

2) Not knowing how to do basic math is ignorant.

[Raxiaz]

1) With users like you, how could I? Silly troll...

2) I know how to do basic math, the computer doesn't. When I'm at 21 minutes left, and go to "extend time," the NPC should tell me I will only get 17 minutes from my stone (120-99 [what i had to start with *gasp*] = 21). Not simply that my time is going to be at 120 minutes from using one stone. When it clearly isn't going to be to begin with.....

Is that idea to hard to grasp? The idea that the NPC will tell you accurately how much time you're going to get, regardless? I guess it's asking too much of the player base to get their head out of their asses for once.

[Kimble]

The most likely reason why it doesn't tell you, is because the NPC prob cant read or recognize how many TE stones you have gotten.

And really, don't make empty threats! If you say you aren't going to post anymore, stick to your guns!

[RAIST]

No, what I would demand is for a server that handles payments and one that handles registration.

So we seem to have a communication problem...you seem to be closing yourself off to posts contrary to your point of view.


I can assure you I will never use the feature again. But from the start, it should tell you how many minutes you're actually getting from the stone. Arguing against this is just ignorant.

It does tell you how much time you are getting from each stone when you first go to use them. You pick the base amount from the list showing 30 minutes per stone, it then tells you your bonus time per stone (in my case +18), then it tells you how much time is actually applied. At that point, you know you have requested X amount of time, say 104 minutes total. Make a note of how close that is to the 120 minute cap and plan accordingly.

At that point, it is your responsibility to note that if you use a stone, you will only get the difference to 120 minutes, (being 16). Here's a few ways you can look at it:

1. Make a mental note you have used 104 minutes and add 10 to that amount each time you get a TE until you hit/exceed 120, at which point you know you can't add time with stones period, if you aren't to 120 yet, you will get the difference to 120.

2. Make a mental note that you have 16 minutes you can add until you hit the cap. For each TE you get, you subtract 10 from that amount until you hit/go below 0, at which point you can't add time with stones in that session, or if you havent' hit/passed 0 yet, you will get the difference to 16.

3. Nnote that you have 16 available minutes to add. Add up each TE until you hit/exceed the remaining time of 16, and at that point you can't add stones. If the sume of the time earned from TE hasn't hit/exceeded the remaining time available yet, you will get the remaing difference from a stone.

4. Compute it out that an additional stone would only be worth 16, if you get 1 TE a stone would be worth 6 minutes, and after two TE's you can't use any more stones that session.

5. Accept the fact that no matter what, you are going to waste minutes if you use another stone, and if you are getting TE's you may not be able to add any stones that session. Go ahead and be prepared that if you get the 15 minute notice, you need to prepare to exit and redo your time if TE's don't come soon. If you hit the 10 minute mark...it's time to decide to exit now and redo your time, or risk hitting the 5 minute mark and not be able to come back in for an hour if you don't get a TE in the next 4-5 minutes. That's a judgment call you have to make. If you make the wrong call and get booted... that was your decision.

Even though the messaging isn't perfect, you are STILL being given sufficient notice when you first set up your time that you are in danger of either getting partial credit for adding a stone, or potentially not being able to extend time at all with stones depending on that sessions performance. Either way you look at it, you are well enough informed that if you wish to preserve your stones when your time is running out, it is best to exit and re-apply time to insure you are getting the full value of each stone.

[RAIST]

1) With users like you, how could I? Silly troll...

2) I know how to do basic math, the computer doesn't. When I'm at 21 minutes left, and go to "extend time," the NPC should tell me I will only get 17 minutes from my stone (120-99 [what i had to start with *gasp*] = 21). Not simply that my time is going to be at 120 minutes from using one stone. When it clearly isn't going to be to begin with.....

Is that idea to hard to grasp? The idea that the NPC will tell you accurately how much time you're going to get, regardless? I guess it's asking too much of the player base to get their head out of their asses for once.

soooo... help me with this. you can remember days/weeks later that you went in with 99 minutes... but you couldn't remember that just one hour after you requested the 99 minutes?

[Tamoa]

The most likely reason why it doesn't tell you, is because the NPC prob cant read or recognize how many TE stones you have gotten.


This.

The OP is raging against something that's a minor inconvenience at most. You've been explained by several people here how it works, it's not a bug no matter how much you call it just that. Lashing out at other people doesn't help your case either. If you had kept your cool after being explained how this whole thing works and suggested that the npc should tell you exactly how much time you will gain from adding another traverser stone, instead of frothing at the mouth - well, you would have made yourself look a whole lot better.

[Octaviane]

Ok, but when I'm giving the person a stone for extended time, they should accurately tell me how much time I'm getting from it. Instead of "120 min." *** happens, I'm not complaining about that. But you have to be *** retarded to tell me that it's OK for the game NOT to tell me how much time I'm really getting from the stone, much later down the line.

Ok *** these forums... I'm sick and tired of being treated like I'm some kind of *** child. It's like you guys don't comprehend what I'm saying. Maybe y'all are the *** childs, not me. I KNOW I have a 120 minute cap from stones. I KNOW THAT. But the "extend time" option is so *** ambiguous and doesn't even accurately tell me anything useful. That's my problem with the function now. Removal? No need, but better portrayal of what I'm getting from my stones: {Yes, please.}

I may not like the rules whole-heartedly but I'll respect them and abide by them graciously, WHEN the game correctly tells me what the *** is going on when I'm "extending time." I should not have to direct myself to a separate webpage explaining the option in depth. The NPC should simply tell me how much *** time I'm getting from my *** stone.

I don't care if it's working as intended it's still flawed and needs an adjustment.

A totally inappropriate post. People here have tried to be decent and fair in an attempt to explain how Stones work and this is how you respond.

You are entitled to your opinion to be sure, but not in this manner.

[Raksha]

so i should be able to get out from xp pt with 370 min , go sleep 6h while i left my char in aby, wake, add stones and start solo kill stuff with all light caped, .....

You can already do this by just farming TEs, what's your complaint?

[Alhanelem]

So I did this today, allowed me to use only one stone (+30 mins), applied my increased boost from abyssites, but when i hit ok, it said total time: 120 min, and then i was given only 21 mins because when i entered 99 mins is what i had originally. This in essence wasted a stone for me.

I had 17 mins left before.

I consider this a bug and no matter how quirky it is I'd like it fixed.
How is this a bug? Maximum time is 120 minutes, no matter how many bonuses you have. You could argue that the message should be changed to say that due to your existing time, the bonus will be lost, but there is no bug in terms of how much time you were given. You should have been smart enough to know already that you weren't going to get the full time of your stone.


Have you even read the posts in this thread? Several have given a very valid reason to use a partial stone.The most obvious reason being that eventually, you will have stones coming out of your ears, and thus you just want 120 minutes every time you enter and don't care if most of a stone is wasted.

[Fiarlia]

People care about "wasting" Traverser Stones? O_o;;

I go in most every day and just dinged to over 400 stones. My group also doesn't focus on TE's, ever. We pretty much go in, do NM's, get TE's along the way, sometimes we don't get 'em and have to restone (depends on if we need to farm pop items or not, usually, or burn for KI chests).

Seriously, it's working as intended, you're whining for the sake of whining and to get on a soapbox over something that really doesn't matter in the first place. It's not even an issue of you sucking less, it's an issue of you just needing to shut up and (/sunglasses) deal with it.

Edit: Even my alt account, which isn't even past the 30 day free trial yet, has extra stones to burn, and I haven't even gotten around to getting the +3 min/stone Abyssites (except the purchasable one) or the -4 hour/stone-respawn from the Tonberries (got the others, though).

[Raksha]

I go in most every day and just dinged to over 400 stones. My group also doesn't focus on TE's, ever. We pretty much go in, do NM's, get TE's along the way, sometimes we don't get 'em and have to restone (depends on if we need to farm pop items or not, usually, or burn for KI chests).


If you could restone without losing your lights, would you do it?




Seriously, it's working as intended, you're whining for the sake of whining and to get on a soapbox over something that really doesn't matter in the first place. It's not even an issue of you sucking less, it's an issue of you just needing to shut up and (/sunglasses) deal with it.


The way it was intended to work is useless though, is what i'm arguing (although you seem to be replying to the op.)

As long as SE decides that crap like ps2 gamepad rumbling is worth fixing, i'll keep suggesting improvements that might actually offer some (even if not a whole lot of) utility.

[RAIST]

You can already do this by just farming TEs, what's your complaint?

6 hrs sleep = 360 minutes of sitting idle and burning down time with no more TE's. Good luck solo building up a lot of time with only 10 minutes or less time left. His example is saying he could just go trade a couple stones to get another couple hours without zoning out...essentially you would be able to stay in there continuously until you completely ran out of stones. That goes completely against the lore of the add-on, not to mention it would put this game even more on the "easy button" than it already is.

[Raksha]

6 hrs sleep = 360 minutes of sitting idle and burning down time with no more TE's. Good luck solo building up a lot of time with only 10 minutes or less time left. His example is saying he could just go trade a couple stones to get another couple hours without zoning out...essentially you would be able to stay in there continuously until you completely ran out of stones. That goes completely against the lore of the add-on, not to mention it would put this game even more on the "easy button" than it already is.


So lore is better than utility, and tediousness is the same thing as difficulty?

P.S. i'm going to bed, don't expect a reply until tomorrow.

[Fiarlia]

If you could restone without losing your lights, would you do it?

If it were possible to begin with, yes. Do I care about it enough to even bother suggesting? Not really, the only time my group cares about lights at all is when we're actively pursuing amber for possible KI boxes, and during those times we'll also have plenty of the other lights and we'll maintain time without having to restone. If we're not going for KI boxes, then we literally couldn't care less about our lights, since we're not using them for anything at all as we don't care about getting TE's since we all have asstons of stones built up. I don't think it needs changing though I wouldn't bitch or argue if SE decided to change it (maintaining lights after restone or allowing us to break 120 minutes or rewording it or whatever). Regardless, I recognize it's only my opinion that it's fine as is, my only issue is people bitching and making a fuss over something so trivial. Seriously, just a few minutes lost on one Traverser Stone and I feel like travelling to the past to make a "whaaaaaaambulance" comment because nothing else seems to fit the ridiculousness and outrageous-ness of said complaining.





The way it was intended to work is useless though, is what i'm arguing (although you seem to be replying to the op.)

As long as SE decides that crap like ps2 gamepad rumbling is worth fixing, i'll keep suggesting improvements that might actually offer some (even if not a whole lot of) utility.

I am mostly replying to the OP. I haven't read your thread on the same subject. Suggesting changes is one thing, complaining is another. Seems so many people feel this forum is an open avenue to do nothing but whine about stuff.

Anyway, like I said, I wouldn't mind if changes happened to this particular issue, though in my opinion it's not really an issue at all. At least you recognize the fact that this wouldn't add much utility. And while yes, fixing the PS2 rumbling was kinda lol, I do think that suggestions would still be better saved for bigger concerns. Just because some stuff that gets fixed is meh doesn't mean all our suggestions have to be equally meh. Cause seriously, aside from accidently getting boned out of a few minutes on a traverser stone once (the first time if you hadn't known previously) or a few times (lapse in memory, oshi- moments with an under 5 min warning) isn't really worth bitching about, and very rarely happens to anyone with half a brain.

[RAIST]

So lore is better than utility, and tediousness is the same thing as difficulty?

P.S. i'm going to bed, don't expect a reply until tomorrow.

When that lore happens to tell you you shouldn't be spending excessive time in there because it may have unforeseen side effects and may actually cause you harm, that his people have gotten stuck in our world because they spent too much time here....um... yes, it's foreshadowing that your time NEEDS to be restricted in some way, and that the game is going to work against allowing you to just go in there all willy-nilly at your liesure.

And restricting your initial time to 120 minutes is not a loss of utility. Nor is truncating time on a stone because of that cap. The system freaking tells you as you go through the process how much time is initially applied. Saved time 68 minutes...set your visitant time to 68 minutes? y/n <yes> your visitnat status has been set to 68 minutes.... you have 68 minutes time remaining. Fart around for 24 minutes and run back to surveyor. Extend Visitant Status....Pick 1 stone for 30 minutes....abyssites will give you +18 minutes per stone <ok>....use one stone to add 48 minutes, y/n <yes> your visitant status has been set to 116 minutes (wording may be off--but it GIVES YOU YOUR CUMULATIVE TOTAL AT THE END OF THE DIALOGUE.... Then you'll get the "your remaining time is now 90 minutes" because you have spent 25 minutes farting around with no TE, then went back and added time to put you to 91 minutes and it ticked back down to 90.

If you were paying attention, it told you your cumulative total was 116, and you have only 4 minutes available to you. If you choose to use another stone instead of exiting and redoing your time, knowing full well ou would loose that time--YOU are CHOOSING to sacrifice the utility of that stone, not the game.

[Fiarlia]

Why is it that so many people don't care about lore?

=/

[Raxiaz]

Because it's a video game, but I care about the lore in FFXI.

I'm going to restate that the "fix" here needs to be that the NPC accurately tells you how much time you're going to get from your traverser stone by using the "extend time" feature, if you're coming back to them after a while in abyssea. Also, if you're not going to get at least 50% of the traverser stone's base worth (15 min), then the "Extend time" feature should not even show. That's all I'd ask.

[Tamoa]

You should learn some anger management.

[Raxiaz]

And you should learn about this thing called "sarcasm." It's all the rage these days!

[Tamoa]

And you should learn about this thing called "sarcasm." It's all the rage these days!

If that's an example of being sarcastic, it's a terrible one.

[Raxiaz]

The Internet does wonders relaying tone, doesn't it? *eye roll*

Does that help?

[Alkalinehoe]

Because it's a video game, but I care about the lore in FFXI.

I'm going to restate that the "fix" here needs to be that the NPC accurately tells you how much time you're going to get from your traverser stone by using the "extend time" feature, if you're coming back to them after a while in abyssea. Also, if you're not going to get at least 50% of the traverser stone's base worth (15 min), then the "Extend time" feature should not even show. That's all I'd ask.


You're ignorant.

[RAIST]

Just to clarify..,.I'm paused in the dialouge atm so I can type it exactly as the game is presenting it after you select to add a stone, it tells you the bonus time you'll get per stone (+18), it tells you the value of the stone(s) you will be applying (48, 96, etc), and you confirm you want to spend the stone(s)...it then presents you with this panel before actually taking your stone, so you can see what your total will be after applying the stone (I requested 34 minutes initially, and am adding 1 48 minute stone, so I get this):

Toatal time obtained for this stay: 82 minutes
Confirm.
Cancel.

While I was holding the menu to post this, time had elapse. When I exited, chat log showed this activity:

Your visitant status will wear off in 30 minutes
You expend 1 traverser stone.
Your visitant status has been exteneded by 48 minutes.
Your Visitant status will wear off in 77 minutes.

Went back into the menus and added 1 stone.... blah blah.. +18 minutes, 48 minutes per stone... and here is the gotcha that your are COMPLETELY MISSING:

Total time obtained for this stay: 120 min.
Confrim.
Cancel.

Now, if you were paying attention to what it was telling you along the way, you should have been able to catch that 77+48 does NOT egwual 120, but 125. Also, if you had noted that you were at 82 after adding time the first time, 82+48 does not equal 120, but 130. either way, you have been givrn sufficient information to realize you were going to loose time if you added another stone.

Guess you are just spamming the menus and not actually reading, perhaps? maybe? just a little too impatient with the system and it wouldn't matter if it was telling you that you would only get partial credit for that stone because you aren't actually paying attention? hmmm? maybe? just a little? take a breath once in a while and actually READ what is on the screen and make note of what it is trying to tell you?

[Raxiaz]

No, I was reading. And it wasn't being very clear on anything. At 21 minutes left, adding a 42 minute stone doesn't exactly equal 120 minutes. So how the hell am I supposed to know what it's really going to give me? Keep track of what the initial time was when I entered? A simple fix but unnecessary nonetheless would be to write down the starting time.

I'd rather the damn thing just tell me "You will get 17 minutes of time from this stone." instead of me having to remember a number about an hour and a half later. I'm not so good at remembering numbers.

But hey, it doesn't matter. This is an insignificant problem in everyones' eyes - including the Developer's apparently, because they coded it so ambiguously - and obviously requires no further discussion.