How a Dual Spec System will affect releasing new Classes/Jobs. (Implementing SAM/NIN)

[Cairdeas]

We know they are keeping the Armoury System, and we know they are going to release a Job System that will bring the classical FF flavor of Jobs into the game world. Me I actually love the Armoury system and I see its merits, and I see where people have trouble understanding it, disliking it and I really do hope the Job System alleviates those issues. The biggest one being forced party Roles. And hopefully SE finds a way to synergize Armoury Weapon Classes with the Traditional Job Classes. (IE a White Mage Heals, A Conjurer White Mage heals with circle AOE. a Thaumaturge White Mage heals with Cone AOE, A Gladiator Paladin Tanks with a Shield, A Marauder Paladin Tanks Groups of enemies all at once.)


My question is how will this affect the releasing of new Weapons and Jobs.

Right now with the way the Armoury System is built you can build quite a few of the classic jobs from past FF's but its your job to do it yourself. It is up to you to discipline yourself into saying "I'm only going to equip the skills that make me a Black Mage." most people don't because they are afraid they might be seen as inferior or not bring enough to a party if they do.

But the list of jobs you can patchwork together from older FF's is kind of small.

Warrior
Monk
White Mage
Black Mage
Red Mage
Paladin
Dragoon
Ranger

I think thats it...

So if they keep skills earned by Classes and then use jobs to allow players to identify themselves by a role and a give bonuses for focusing on that path we will eventually need more weapons and more jobs to allow players to flesh out the play style they really want.

Because of the popularity of the subject. Let us take Samurai For instance.

How would you implement the Samurai Play style?

I can see it happening this way:

1. Implement a class that deals with "Oriental Weapons" This class would use Katanas (Ninja's primary weapon from FFXI) and Great Katana (Samurai Primary Weapon from FFXI). Naming it would have to be something that does not designate it as being either Ninja, Samurai, or other FF Job. And instead reflects the same naming convention that Weaponclasses take in both Japanese and English.

IE: 剣術士 → Sword User｜Sword User→Gladius (Latin: Sword)+ -ātor (Latin: Agent) → Gladiator

For this purpose I believe the best choice would be.

太刀士 → Tachi Professional for japanese. I'm not the most fluent in Japanese but as I understand it Tachi were swords that depending on how you wore it on your belt were either considered a Tachi (FFXI Ninja) or a Katana (FFXI Samurai)

But Tachi translates to Sword in English. Because Tachi has been adopted as an English word to describe a type of Japanese Sword though it can stay translated as Tachi.

But the problem comes from how do you use this to find a name for the class in English as was pointed out the English Classes have more flair added to them then the origin Japanese counterparts. (Sword User vs Gladiator) so its acceptable to think they will use Flair again when naming a new Weapon Class.

I'd Propose the words Wanderer or Vagrant to be the name for Tachi Professional in English.

Sourcing Wanderer: An itinerant is a person who travels from place to place with no fixed home. The term comes from late 16th century: from late Latin itinerant (travelling), from the verb itinerari, from Latin iter, itiner (journey, road).

Wanderer's were just that people who traveled with no home. I came to this conclusion because of another part of Japanese Lore.

Rōnin: The word rōnin literally means "wave man". The term originated in the Nara and Heian periods, when it referred to a serf who had fled or deserted his master's land. It then came to be used for a samurai who had lost his master.

So in a sense a Rōnin was someone with No Home, and No Master. A Wanderer. The reason I chose to propose Wanderer over Rōnin is two fold.

1. ō eh take it or leave it, but not everyone know how to type it on a English 101 keyboard. 2. Rōnin has a negative connotation to it in Japanese Lore. A Rōnin while being someone who wanders and has no master. They also have no "Honor" as they did not commit Seppuku when they lost their master.


Why I would also propose Vagrant and prefer it over Wanderer. This again is two Fold. 1. Vagrant and Wanderer mean the same thing, but there is already an entity in XIV named Wanderer. Oschon who seems to be sourced from Odin (Wodin the Wanderer). 2. Square Enix has a game in their history that is part of the Final Fantasy Mythos called Vagrant Story. Vagrant Story was part of the Ivalice Alliance, its based in the same universe world as FFT whose Art Director is now the Art Director for FFXIV.

Kinda Full Circle Eh?

So we now have a name for the Weapon Class, Vagrant. But what skills would it have?

In the most simple of terms, we shall call it Sword Magic and we will consider it a Discipline of Magic. As a Discipline of Magic each class under this Discipline has its own form of AOE casting. Right now Conjurer casts in a circle from Target, while Thaumaturge casts in a Cone from Self.

Vagrant while being a Front Line Damage dealer should have an AOE that allows them to affect all of their kin on the battlefield. As such they should have a Circular or Wave AOE that originates from themselves but doesn't have the same range as the Target Casted Circular AOE that Conjurer has.

For their weapons their 1 handed Katanas would reflect more on magic having a Higher Magic Potency (while not as high as a Conjurer or Thaumaturge Weapon) and lower Physical Attack Power. While the Two handed Katana should have a higher Physical Attack power (not as high as a Marauder or Lancer) and lower Magic Potency (again not as low as Marauder and Lancer)

As each weapon class already present in the game can reflect the core skills of various Classical Jobs. As such the skills they get would come from all of the Classical Jobs that deal with using a physical weapon as a tool to deliver magical damage. En-Spells could come from this class, so would the classic Samurai Skills from FFT and FF6, as well a Modifier skill that transforms a Casted Spell (From Conj or Thaum) into a Ninjitsu Magic. This skill would be seperated by ranks with each rank having the names of Ichi, Ni, and San, it would be a Meta Magic skill that would modify the next casted spell to operate as a Ninjitsu Spell. It would cost both TP and MP to cast the spell. Also, the spells for Invisible and Sneak could come from this class.

Ninjitsu (Ichi, Ni, San being the 3 ranks similar to Cure I, Cure II etc.) as a skill would work by using TP to modify the spell itself. Spending the TP to use Ninjitsu the next spell once casted would operate differently.

Instead of just casting "Fire" the Vagrant can use Ichi then cast Fire, the spell would be casted as Katon: Ichi have different casting animations and different spell effects. But how the spell operated with how it dealed damage to the target would be different. The damage dealt would be lowered but the next spell casted with Ichi as long as it was the next spell in the Elemental Wheel would deal massive more damage. Using these skills should AOE though which is the major downside and way to balance its use.
For those that do not know:

The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born.
The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus Earth is born.
The density of Earth shuns Sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born.
The armor of Ice melts away, and thus Water is born.
The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born.
The gusts and sighs of Wind gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born.

Is the Elemental Wheel for FFXIV.

So so far we have the following skills as possible for this Vagrant.

Ichi, Ni, San (Ninjitsu Meta Magics), Wind Slash, Iai Blow, Blade Bash, Shimmering Blade, Hoarfrost Blade, Skyfury Blade, Lifethread Blade, Unburden Soul, En-Elemental, En-Status, Third Eye, Hasso, Meditate, Seigan, Sekkanoki, Shikikoyo, Sengikori, Hamanoha, Zanshin, Blood Price. Etc.

As Such the skills Vagrant brings into the game would let a player create or enhance the jobs Ninja, Samurai, Spellsword (Mystic), Red Mage, Monk, and more. Yes I know some of these skills already exist in game, I simply dumped the skills I knew Samurai had in previous FF games as examples.

Alternate idea for Ninjitsu and skills

Ok, I read the entire OP.

Well it's certainly a good idea. I'm a bit on the fence about the implementation of the Ninjutsu spells. Why not just put each of them in the same as a CON has the elemental spells? And I would suggest having those just use MP. You'll have plenty of weapon skills for burning TP. I think if you take the Ninjutsu spells, one weapon skill per element, the en-spells, and implement the SAM battle stances, you have a pretty good formula for a new class.

With the Job System in place you could Equip the Samurai Job, Equip a Two handed Katana and be a Vagrant Samurai who specializes in Sword Magic.



I feel like I just dumptrucked a whole bunch of ideas... Oh wait I did...

[Cairdeas]

That was longer then I thought it would be...

[Jinko]

Too much speculation.

[Cairdeas]

Lol thats all we can do right now Jinko.

[AlexiaKidd]

So everyone level it to put Hasso, Third Eye, Meditate and Siegan on their custom class or if it is class exclusive then everyone just be /Vagrant

[Gracious]

The post is very long. I can see your point on some things but overall it's more of a guessing game on how they will do it. Good suggestions but idk how practical it would be.

[Cairdeas]

So everyone level it to put Hasso, Third Eye, Meditate and Siegan on their custom class or if it is class exclusive then everyone just be /Vagrant

Thats up to SE to decide. Its their game if they chose to let everyone have access to those skills then thats their choice, All I did was give examples of what skills could be given to Vagrant as a Class. I have no doubt some of them would probably end up being Native Class only. But lots of them don't have to be like the En-Elemental and En-Status spells.

[Physic]

third eye is already in game with lancer
meditate is already in game with lancer
hasso is what increase str?
seigan is basically in the evasion or parry boosting skills, and corresponding weaponskills.
comrade in arms is store tp

samurai basically got taken by lancer, as it was anyhow, the magic swordsman could be interesting, but you can make a spear sam out of whats in game already pretty easily.
ninja....
well we got various dots, and debuffs on thaum
lancer has third eye, which is basically utsusemi, but lets throw archers one in there so you get two.
what else ninja got... oh dual weild, which was rumored to be fencer in the dats, but who knows if that will ever occur.

[BlaiseLallaise]

But the list of jobs you can patchwork together from older FF's is kind of small.

Warrior
Monk
White Mage
Black Mage
Red Mage
Paladin
Dragoon
Ranger

I think thats it...

You can totally be a Dark Knight too.

Ok, now I'll read the rest of the post.

[Cairdeas]

third eye is already in game with lancer
meditate is already in game with lancer
hasso is what increase str?
seigan is basically in the evasion or parry boosting skills, and corresponding weaponskills.
comrade in arms is store tp

samurai basically got taken by lancer, as it was anyhow, the magic swordsman could be interesting, but you can make a spear sam out of whats in game already pretty easily.
ninja....
well we got various dots, and debuffs on thaum
lancer has third eye, which is basically utsusemi, but lets throw archers one in there so you get two.
what else ninja got... oh dual weild, which was rumored to be fencer in the dats, but who knows if that will ever occur.

Again, I was just making examples. I know most of the skills that Samurai has were already in the game as different skills. New skills can also be made to fill in the Spots. Also like I said in the beginning of the OP. To make any specific Job build from classical ff games you have to pull skills from multiple FFXIV weapon classes. Samurai would be the same, so would ninja.

Vagrant isn't specifically a Samurai, or a Ninja, just a Oriental Swordsman. And yes once Samurai as a Job is implemented you can still make a Lancer Samurai (I did in XI for most of the time I played it.)

Dual Wield also can be given natively to multiple classes it doesn't have to be restricted. in XI Dancer can now Dual Wield.